1 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:38,119 Paul Ask What Up? What Up? Everybody? Welcome to another edition of 2 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,320 Let's Ask Paul the podcast where I, Paul Abernathy, try to answer your 3 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,840 electrical questions submitted to me through the Paul Abernathy dot com portal, which is 4 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:52,280 a free service sponsored by Wicks, and you get to ask me any question 5 00:00:52,359 --> 00:00:55,200 you want on the National Electrical Code. Again. All you gotta do is 6 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,079 go to Paul Abernathy dot com, fill in a little bit of information, 7 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,719 click that submit button and boom. You may be selected for an upcoming podcast 8 00:01:03,079 --> 00:01:06,280 or I'll answer your question via email. As I try to answer every question 9 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:07,879 I can. Again, I get a lot of them, so I do 10 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:15,000 my best to try to get back to everybody that I can. And this 11 00:01:15,079 --> 00:01:18,879 is all sponsored also, not just by Wicks to sponsors the page for you 12 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:23,200 to be able to do this, it's all sponsored by Electrical Code Academy as 13 00:01:23,239 --> 00:01:26,640 well. This is our academy. We are a corporation located in Texas. 14 00:01:26,879 --> 00:01:33,280 We're in McKinney, Texas. We're about thirty miles northeast ish of Dallas, 15 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:38,359 and we're just shy at the Oklahoma border, probably about an hour from Oklahoma. 16 00:01:38,879 --> 00:01:42,280 So we're right there at the upper right, just outside of the most 17 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:47,120 severe elements of the tornado alley. We do get warnings here all the time, 18 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,920 and we've had tornadoes here, but we're just a little bit out of 19 00:01:49,959 --> 00:01:53,959 that. But but we do get nervous a little bit when we do have 20 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,680 the tornado season, that's for sure. But anyway, thanks for joining me. 21 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:04,799 I originated in Virginia and I lived there my whole life and ended up 22 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:10,360 in twenty fourteen coming out here to Texas. And it's been an interesting ride 23 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,479 here in Texas. We've seen our academy grow enormously here in Texas, and 24 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:22,479 so we appreciate everybody who listens to our podcasts and watches our videos, and 25 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,000 most most importantly to all of you out there that have purchased a course of 26 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:30,639 ours. We you have no idea how much we appreciate that patronage that you've 27 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,840 given us and that trust you put in us. Again, we totally do 28 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,639 not take that for granted. We appreciate it, which is why we like 29 00:02:37,719 --> 00:02:40,120 to come out with content and to be able to do something like this, 30 00:02:40,319 --> 00:02:46,319 to be able to answer questions for folks. All right, So today's question 31 00:02:47,039 --> 00:02:53,520 was asked about explaining a change to the twenty twenty three National Electrical Code, 32 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,800 how it changed from the twenty twenty to the twenty twenty three, and it 33 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:04,599 really was a breakout change. In other words, instead of being pretty simple 34 00:03:04,719 --> 00:03:08,400 about what the rules were in twenty twenty three, this expanded a little bit. 35 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,120 Although it didn't change its intent, It just made it a little more 36 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,879 clearer what's expected and added a few extra elements to this. And so you're 37 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:21,439 probably wondering, what the hell is Paul talking about. We're gonna be looking 38 00:03:21,439 --> 00:03:29,159 at two thirty eighty five emergency disconnects. And it first reared its head back 39 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:32,039 in the twenty seventeen It was talked about it didn't have enough support. We 40 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:37,560 remember being at NPA meetings where it was being discussed in the room and we 41 00:03:37,599 --> 00:03:40,639 had a collection of firefighters and other people, and NEMO was behind it and 42 00:03:40,639 --> 00:03:44,599 everybody was, you know, kind of debating it and kicking it around. 43 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,199 Didn't have the support, and it really didn't have the support at that time. 44 00:03:49,439 --> 00:03:52,960 It is it sounded right, sounded like it's something we needed, but 45 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,840 it didn't have the support. Now, this is most certainly not something that 46 00:03:55,919 --> 00:04:00,759 just manufacturers pushed a lot of people think that things getting too code simply because 47 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,759 of manufacturers, and that just you really don't know how the system works. 48 00:04:04,439 --> 00:04:06,520 Take a moment to go to the front of the code book and look at 49 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,639 the diversity on the code panel. You'll see that it's not just made up 50 00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:15,120 of manufacturers. Although the manufacturers that are there are experts in their realm and 51 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,920 their field. Right, So that's what you want on a table like a 52 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,360 You don't want novices, you want experts at this table. People that that's 53 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:24,560 what they do. This is what they do on a day in and day 54 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,600 basis, work with equipment, electrical equipment, manufacturing it and things like that. 55 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,319 So anyway, the more you have a healthy understanding of how that process 56 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,920 really works, then you basically you get rid of the stuff where you just 57 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:40,519 point fingers at code panel members because that's just not how it works. But 58 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:46,079 anyway, so there was a lot of support coming for it because the first 59 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:54,000 responders were like, you know what firefighters and are not you know, they're 60 00:04:54,040 --> 00:05:00,199 not experts at electrical So having them pull a meter and expose the meter side 61 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:05,720 enclosure maybe during firefighting activities or maybe during a storm where they're fighting in all 62 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:12,480 different types of conditions or using their acts to cut service conductors or try to 63 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,720 chop things down, and you have all this live. Remember there's no overcurrent 64 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,199 device. Typically there is probably something of the primary fuse of a transformer, 65 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:24,759 but typically nothing that's going to trip. The only thing that we protect those 66 00:05:24,759 --> 00:05:29,399 conductors are from overload, and that's why we have the service disconnect that's going 67 00:05:29,439 --> 00:05:31,879 to have overload protection. It's one of the requirements in two thirty ninety. 68 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,079 But other than that, they're no short circuling ground fall protection there. So 69 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:44,240 they're just hacking away and it elevates the hazard. Also if the first responders 70 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,959 have to enter into the structure which may be involved, and now they have 71 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,480 to go and try to find the power to turn it off because they're a 72 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,480 little leery of doing anything at the at the meter, they just they don't 73 00:05:54,519 --> 00:05:59,439 have that training. And then you know they're not using a brute force attack. 74 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,480 It just puts others at risk. It puts them at risk, the 75 00:06:02,519 --> 00:06:06,560 people in the structure at risk, and they're not again, they're not electrical 76 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:11,920 experts. We don't want them to create a greater hazard. So this started 77 00:06:11,959 --> 00:06:18,759 circulating and it got a lot of support. By an international Association of firefighters 78 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:28,600 and their organization, and again other firefighting organizations kind of agreed and started saying, 79 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,680 you know what for one and two family dwellings, we especially when you 80 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:38,040 think about it, because that's where you have people that are sleeping and unaware, 81 00:06:38,079 --> 00:06:41,480 and commercial buildings and things like that. People work during today, they're 82 00:06:41,519 --> 00:06:46,160 not there at night. There's other mechanisms to cut things off. So it 83 00:06:46,439 --> 00:06:50,839 seemed that the greater risk that they were associating this with was one and two 84 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:56,920 family dwelling applications. So it started to generate steam, and of course it 85 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,959 came in by four different public inputs in the twenty twenty edition of the n 86 00:07:01,959 --> 00:07:08,759 EC and those public inputs were looked at by the code making Panel, and 87 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,639 they were a little bit all over the place, but they all had the 88 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,199 same theme here, right, is first responders in the safety of the first 89 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,800 responders, and it correlated with the safety of the people inside the dwelling, 90 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,800 and it just made sense. Having ability to shut the power off safely and 91 00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:31,439 effectively in a readily accessible location outdoors made sense to them. So it made 92 00:07:31,439 --> 00:07:34,639 it through the public input and then it gets you know, put out there 93 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:39,600 and what's called the first draft, and everybody looked at it and kind of 94 00:07:39,639 --> 00:07:45,720 tweaked it a little bit, and then the second draft comes out and after 95 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:49,160 those public comments have been addressed and looked at and either rejected or incorporated, 96 00:07:50,079 --> 00:07:56,639 and then that's how we get it in the code. And so it made 97 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,439 it in the twenty twenty, and it was in the twenty twenty. It 98 00:07:59,519 --> 00:08:05,279 was just very straightforward, right. It was nothing spectacular when it comes to 99 00:08:05,399 --> 00:08:09,639 its format. It was just three items, two thirty to eighty five, 100 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:15,639 and that was it. Now, we won't rehash that because the twenty twenty 101 00:08:15,639 --> 00:08:20,800 three still covers the same application there. It's just now in the twenty twenty 102 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,920 three. Because that's what I was asked to explain in the in the email 103 00:08:24,959 --> 00:08:28,360 that's that was sent to me for this episode. Want of me explain the 104 00:08:28,439 --> 00:08:35,200 changes in the twenty twenty three edition of that Now. The reason I say 105 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,879 it that way is because if you happen to take the time and you want 106 00:08:39,879 --> 00:08:43,120 to go back and see what it was like in the twenty twenty n EC, 107 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:46,639 it basically was just two thirty to eighty five, Item one, Item 108 00:08:46,639 --> 00:08:52,240 two, Item three. So it basically said in the twenty twenty. It 109 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:56,919 basically was a one and two family dwelling requirement. It made sure that all 110 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,080 the service conductors would terminate into dis connecting means, and that disconnect and you're 111 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,639 gonna get some options. Had to have short circuit current raining equal to or 112 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,440 greater than the available fault current, so that's typically provided by the utility, 113 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:16,799 so we know what that is going to be. And then it had to 114 00:09:16,799 --> 00:09:20,320 be in a readily accessible location outdoors. And then it gave you three options. 115 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,279 First option was just a service disconnect, and you had to market as 116 00:09:24,279 --> 00:09:28,080 such, and it was the emergency disconnect. So service disconnect could be as 117 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:33,240 simple as a name a three R panel outside with a main breaker that's serving 118 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,000 as the service disconnect but also serving double duty as the emergency disconnect. Simple, 119 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,360 straightforward. Another option would have been to go outside and put a simple 120 00:09:41,519 --> 00:09:46,840 service disconnect. You know, it's more like a rectangular with a main breaker 121 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,840 only in it. That is a service disconnect, but it's also an emergency 122 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,000 disconnect. So if that's the case, then that's your service disconnect outside. 123 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,720 And then the conductors that come out the load side of that are now feeders 124 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,360 and they go to the p anel, and you can put that panel anywhere 125 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,759 you want, all right, And typically people would bring their grounding, electro 126 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,919 conductors and everything into that exterior service disconnect, So that's probably the way I 127 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:16,360 would do it. I don't like putting panels outside in general at all when 128 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:22,279 it comes to regular panel boards. I prefer to have just the service disconnect 129 00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:26,679 out there. So you do have two other options that were incorporated in twenty 130 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,240 twenty. That was a meter disconnect, and they were already permitted in two 131 00:10:30,279 --> 00:10:33,080 thirty eighty two, which is things to be on the supply side of a 132 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,519 service disconnect. So by mentioning two thirty out eighty two, we know that 133 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,159 it is not going to be a service disconnect. Is just a meter disconnect. 134 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,279 Now we're not talking about a meter bypass. It is a meter disconnect. 135 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:50,480 Okay. Now Item three. I could have used any listed disconnect switch 136 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,360 or listed disconnect circuit breaker on the supply side of the service. So the 137 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,600 rule itself said that this had to be on the supply side of the service 138 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,159 disconnect. So we know that it cannot be the service disconnect. And if 139 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,120 it can't be the service disconnect, then the number of conductors that are migrating 140 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:11,720 from the through the meter through the disconnect is still just let's say one twenty 141 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,240 two forty, it's just still three conductors and you're using the ground conductor to 142 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,039 bond the enclosure. You're doing everything you normally would do. It's still on 143 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,759 the supply side of the service. It literally says that right in the language. 144 00:11:22,799 --> 00:11:26,039 Okay, so we know that we're going to have a service disconnect downstream 145 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,679 from this right And of course then that still has to comply with two thirty 146 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,039 dot seventy A with outside and near's point of entry, so we still have 147 00:11:33,159 --> 00:11:37,759 that rule. Now, all of these had to be marked legibly, durably 148 00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:43,639 in accordance with one ten twenty one B, and there's certain wordings that they 149 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:46,559 had to have on here, like for the service disconnect, it had to 150 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:50,679 say emergency disconnect and service disconnect. For the meter disconnect it had to say 151 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,279 emergency disconnect meter disconnect, and it had to remind everybody that it is not 152 00:11:54,559 --> 00:12:01,360 service equipment, okay. And then of course the listed disconnects switch. Now 153 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,440 remind you that listed disconnect switch, whether it's just a simple circuit breaker or 154 00:12:05,039 --> 00:12:11,039 some other type of switch like a knife switch. It also had to be 155 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,399 marked suitable for use as service equipment. Okay, so it had to have 156 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,240 that marking in there. Now you're not using it as service equipment, but 157 00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:22,519 it has to have the marking suitable for use as service equipment. Okay. 158 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:28,679 Now the markings on that you had to have emergency disconnect and marking that says 159 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:33,840 not service equipment, right, because it is not service equipment. So for 160 00:12:33,879 --> 00:12:37,399 many people that asked me, when does the feeders begin? On item number 161 00:12:37,399 --> 00:12:43,360 two for the meter disconnect and item number three for listed disconnect switches, that 162 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,879 clearly state they're not service equipment. You're not creating a feeder. It's still 163 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:52,440 service conductors passing through this on until they get to the service disconnect. Okay, 164 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,440 so you're not going to have any equipment ground conductor. You're gonna still 165 00:12:54,480 --> 00:13:00,600 have your three conductors passing through, Okay, simplicity's sake, it's clearly telling 166 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,799 you it's not service equipment. Now, like I said, option number one, 167 00:13:03,799 --> 00:13:05,440 it's probably what I'm gonna use because I'm not gonna waste my time. 168 00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:09,559 I'm going to put a service disconnect outside, I'm not gonna put me. 169 00:13:09,639 --> 00:13:11,200 I'm not going to put a panel. That's your choice. But I am 170 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:16,159 going to put just a service disconnect, and it's going to be both my 171 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,759 emergency and my service disconnect. That's where I'm gonna take my GEC's to keep 172 00:13:18,759 --> 00:13:22,960 it outside of the building and establish my grounding electrode system. I'm gonna do 173 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,480 that there. That's just me. That's where I'm going to make my connection 174 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,759 to the ground and conductor. Okay, all right, So that was what 175 00:13:28,879 --> 00:13:35,559 was in the twenty twenty edition, pretty straightforward. Everybody was kind of absorbing 176 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,639 that and saying, okay, I'm trying to understand, and parts of the 177 00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:41,440 country said, you know, this is no big deal. I did this 178 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:46,200 anyway. I mean, this is something that they're already familiar with doing. 179 00:13:46,279 --> 00:13:52,519 So the key changes for twenty twenty three, and there's a couple of significant 180 00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:56,120 ones that you have to remember. The first thing is now we're going to 181 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,559 incorporating a replacement rule. So if you're playing the service, this is kind 182 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,919 of a retroactive thing. We don't do this a lot in the n EC, 183 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:09,399 but this is we do now do it for surge protective devices and whatnot. 184 00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:13,320 But here, if you replace that service equipment, now you've got to 185 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,960 bring it up and meet two thirty eighty five. However, they did have 186 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,799 an exception. It says, look, if you're just replacing the meter socket, 187 00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:24,519 if you're just replacing the service instry conductors or the related raceways and fittings 188 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,679 or whatever, maybe during a storm where it knocked off your hurricane or something 189 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,840 that knocked off your service conductors and messed up your meter, but you're not 190 00:14:31,919 --> 00:14:35,759 going to be replacing the service equipment, then you don't have to invoke this 191 00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:39,679 requirement. You can leave it is it is, what was compliant at the 192 00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:41,000 time it was done, is fine. You can put it back the way 193 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:46,000 it was. That's what this exception is kind of talking about. So that 194 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:50,320 one has been added in two thirty eighty five item numbers C, so as 195 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,519 you can see, things have been broken out a little bit more. Now 196 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,759 that's the replacement rules, So that's new, new for twenty twenty three. 197 00:14:56,399 --> 00:15:03,440 The next one that is new for twenty twenty three is the identification of other 198 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:07,879 isolated disconnects. So what this really means, and i'll paraphrase it for you, 199 00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:11,919 if I have my emergency disconnect there for the service I'm complying with two 200 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,720 thirty to eighty five one and two family dwelling. But I have other energy 201 00:15:16,759 --> 00:15:22,360 sources on the structure, like a PV or a generator, that their disconnect 202 00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:28,200 is not located right here. We're grouped together with my emergency disconnect. If 203 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,679 that's the case, then I have to create a plaque or directory that mounts 204 00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:39,600 next to this emergency disconnect that tells somebody where these other isolated disconnects are located. 205 00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:43,759 And that is so that a first responder comes up, he's at this 206 00:15:43,799 --> 00:15:46,559 emergency disconnect, he shuts it off, and he thinks that everything is dead. 207 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,000 But you could have other contributing factors like PV or another generator or something 208 00:15:52,039 --> 00:15:56,759 that once he cuts that power off, we don't want the damn generator starting 209 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,440 up and feeding power back to something. So at the end of the day, 210 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:06,480 it's just a label and I mean a directory or placard requirement if you 211 00:16:06,559 --> 00:16:10,919 have other energy sources supplying the structure and it needs to be mounted next to 212 00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:15,679 the emergency disconnect. And this makes total sense, right, So that is 213 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,720 a new requirement for twenty twenty three. And it's item number D that don't 214 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,639 needs sound right, Item number D. It's D of two thirty eighty five. 215 00:16:23,879 --> 00:16:29,919 So that's been added. Okay, the next significant change is the marking. 216 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,200 So before it just made reference to one ten twenty one B, but 217 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,639 now it's a little more expanded here. So the marking, it's the same 218 00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:41,120 thing as it was before. It's going to tell you the marking you have, 219 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,960 whether it's the service disconnect, whether it's the meter disconnect or the other 220 00:16:45,039 --> 00:16:49,320 listed disconnect. Now the marking is same marking rules, same word. It's 221 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,559 saint verbiage. It's now just put here so that you can see what it 222 00:16:53,639 --> 00:16:59,840 is. Now when it comes to the marking, now we have very distinct 223 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,240 requirements that what they have to be. So it has to be all of 224 00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:10,799 this wording has to be on a red background, and it has to be 225 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,240 white letters, and those letters have to be at least a half inch high. 226 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,880 And also they made it very clear that these markings or labels have to 227 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:25,279 be located on the outside front of the disconnect, not within the door, 228 00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:27,480 not inside of it, so that the responder doesn't know. It needs to 229 00:17:27,519 --> 00:17:32,839 be flat out on the front. Now, obviously one twenty one B is 230 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,359 going to require it to be because it's making reference to it. Has to 231 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:40,640 comply with it durable, not handwritten. Okay, it's got to be able 232 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,880 to handle the environment, whether it's a rain, moisture, heat, all 233 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,720 those type of things. So I am more than sure that people out there 234 00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:52,160 make their labels. You can probably buy them now already done with the red 235 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,400 background and the white letters, because these are pretty just you know, the 236 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:00,240 codes telling you exactly the verbage that has to be on it, and you're 237 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,279 gonna put these on the outside of the of the disconnect. Now, some 238 00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:07,559 people like this and some people don't. Say, Look, I'm advertising people 239 00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:10,279 to come up and know how to shut power off to my house. That's 240 00:18:10,319 --> 00:18:14,799 that's fine. You can lock it. It's perfectly fine. It's still considered 241 00:18:14,799 --> 00:18:21,640 readily accessible to those that need readily access. If you read the the language 242 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:26,680 in readily Accessible an article one hundred, then you know locks are fine, 243 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:32,880 not a problem. It's not a big deal. It's you know, remember 244 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,559 the overcurd devices are going to work anyway, so that's that's not going to 245 00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:41,960 affect how they operate. So anyway, those are the significant changes now other 246 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:45,720 than that. One of the other changes that I'm a point too, because 247 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:49,160 nothing other than the structure because in the twenty twenty three instead of it being 248 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,599 just two thirty eighty five one, two and three, it's now two thirty 249 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:57,759 eighty five A, B, C, D, and E and I told 250 00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:00,880 you C, I told you D, and I told you E. Those 251 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:07,480 are new. The way it's structured just regurgitating information that was kind of all 252 00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:12,240 embedded in their original twenty twenty language, But in twenty twenty three it breaks 253 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:17,720 it out into general, which is A and it says location, rating and 254 00:19:17,839 --> 00:19:22,039 grouping, again things we should already know from the twenty twenty. But now 255 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,440 it's broken out location. Where has it got to be a readily accessible location 256 00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:30,920 outdoors on or within sight of the dwelling. Now there is an exception. 257 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,480 So this is something new, and it wasn't part of two thirty eighty five, 258 00:19:36,599 --> 00:19:41,920 But this is the inclusion of the same emergency disconnect rules for two twenty 259 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,720 five dot forty one. Now y'all all know that two twenty five is outside 260 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:52,799 branch and feeders. Now, if I were to have the service coming down 261 00:19:52,839 --> 00:19:57,119 on a pole right and I were to change and put the service disconnect there, 262 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,920 it might be remote to the point where the first responders would never see 263 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:06,359 it so, and this has been done on a lot of huge homes and 264 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:11,119 things like that where the service equipment maybe is hidden away from the structure, 265 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:17,519 and now it's a feeder that comes out of that over to the actual dwelling. 266 00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:21,440 I've done in installations like that. Well, in this case, at 267 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:27,599 that point, two twenty two twenty five dot forty one is going to require 268 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:36,079 the emergency disconnect, right, and it's basically follows the same rules as two 269 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:41,240 thirty eighty five, but in this case it's for that emergency disconnect. That's 270 00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:44,960 the feeder that's feeding a one and two family dwelling. Right. So, 271 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,200 because you might not have the on the actual dwelling where the service conductors come 272 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,119 in, but you still have the same hazard where they come to the to 273 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,240 the building and they might know that there's another shut off somewhere, maybe over 274 00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:00,880 in the trees or behind a you know, behind a wall, because people 275 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:06,480 don't want to see it, they might not know that. So they're at 276 00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:11,799 the structure and this is a feeder that's applying it. Well, same thing, 277 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,759 they need to know how to shut the power off at the actual dwelling 278 00:21:14,839 --> 00:21:17,680 unit, and so same rules are going to apply. So all this was 279 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:23,039 saying is the exception is the location on where it needs to be that you 280 00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:29,359 can ignore this if it's a feeder going to the building and you're following all 281 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,640 the requirements at two twenty five to forty one. If that is met, 282 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,799 which is basically identical to two thirty to eighty five. If that is met, 283 00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:41,319 then you just ignore what you see here because it's taking place under two 284 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,440 twenty five to forty one. Anyway, Now that wasn't there in the twenty 285 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,799 twenty edition. So if you happen to and the code permitted it, if 286 00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:55,039 the service was not on the building and the building was being fed by the 287 00:21:55,039 --> 00:22:00,119 feeder, are one and two families fed by the feeder, then you didn't 288 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:06,960 have the emergency disconnect at the structure. And so twenty twenty three takes care 289 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,400 of that, and that is referenced in two twenty five forty one. Okay, 290 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,559 and don't worry. Two thirty to eighty five makes reference to that, 291 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,039 right, And then of course you still have your rating. The short circuit 292 00:22:18,079 --> 00:22:21,400 current rating has to be equal to or greater than available fault current. Hopefully 293 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:25,759 you get that fault current letter from your utility at that point mostly for all 294 00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:27,799 of these one and two families, that would be probably what you're gonna do, 295 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,480 and you're just making sure that the equipment you're selecting this disconnect is equal 296 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:37,720 to or greater. And then of course grouping again you could have more than 297 00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:44,279 one disconnect means obviously code allows that. If that's the case, you want 298 00:22:44,279 --> 00:22:48,799 to make sure that they're all grouped in the same location, and that's important 299 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:55,720 to keep that in mind. Remembering that we do have this identification for other 300 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:02,799 isolation disconnects for other energy sources in that requirement for a placuard or directory, 301 00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:04,599 if they're not all grouped at the same location, Okay, remember that was 302 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,960 added. That's item number D. Item number I keep saying item number D. 303 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,599 That is item D. How about that? All right? So those 304 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,680 were your real changes, and of course you still have the options for the 305 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,519 three different types of disconnects. The only change that we really see in there 306 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,279 is they're going to make it very clear that in B two and three that 307 00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:33,480 you're not using the equipment, whether it's the meter disconnect that's integral to a 308 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:40,319 meter amounted equipment, or it's a listed other listed disconnects switcher circuit breaker. 309 00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:45,160 They're making it very clear that it is. When it comes to the listed 310 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,279 disconnecting switcher circum rate, they're making it queer that it's clear that it's listed 311 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,640 or marked for suitable for use of service equipment. But they also want to 312 00:23:53,680 --> 00:24:00,799 make sure that it is not marked that is only suitable for use as service 313 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,559 equipment because it's not being used as service equipment. That's important. That's the 314 00:24:04,599 --> 00:24:10,000 same thing with a meter disconnect, right. It can't be marked as suitable 315 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:15,599 only for use as service equipment when it's not being used as service equipment. 316 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,839 Does that make sense? Okay? And then of course you have two informational 317 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,359 notes that kind of clarify that, so they should hammer this home. The 318 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,839 first informational note reminds people that the conductors between the emergency disconnect and the service 319 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:34,279 disconect, okay, they are still service conductors. Very important. Everybody wants 320 00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:38,519 to think those are feeders, they're not. They're still service conductors. They're 321 00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:45,119 just passing through those permitted disconnecting means applications, right, So keep that in 322 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:51,400 mind. And then of course informational note number two reminds you that equipment marks 323 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:59,440 suitable suitable only for use to service equipment includes the factory marking that says service 324 00:24:59,519 --> 00:25:06,119 DISCONNEC. So be very careful you go grab equipment a disconnect that says service 325 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:12,400 disconnect marked on it, then it may say that it's suitable only for use 326 00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:17,559 as service equipment, and you would not be able to use that, okay, 327 00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:22,720 as the disc unless you were actually using the whole thing as a service 328 00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:25,440 disconnect, okay, and that was one of your options. I could put 329 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,000 a Nima three R outside with a main breaker, or I could put just 330 00:25:29,079 --> 00:25:33,880 a service disconnect outside and it is truly a service disconnect, and then it 331 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,319 would be a feeder on the load side of it, like we kind of 332 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,759 talked about earlier. So that's probably what I'm gonna do. I'm always gonna 333 00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:42,079 put I'm I'm not gonna put a panel outside like that. I'm just that's 334 00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:45,119 just me. I get it. Some parts of the country you do, 335 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,319 but that's just me. I'm not. I'm going to go in and put 336 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:55,400 a main breaker one breaker enclosure with a two hundred damp or whatever it is, 337 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,480 and I'm just gonna feed through it, and I'm gonna have feeders on 338 00:25:57,519 --> 00:26:00,319 the load side of it, and I'm gonna put my panel wherever I want 339 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,559 and not have to worry about two thirty dot a one, No, two 340 00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:07,880 thirty seventy eight one. I'm not gonna worry about any of that, Okay, 341 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,480 So that's just me. Though you do you I don't. It's not 342 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,640 my business what you do. But that's just that's just my opinion on it. 343 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,319 Anyway, there you go. That's two thirty eighty five. Those are 344 00:26:19,319 --> 00:26:25,759 how it's changed from the twenty twenty to the twenty twenty three. I think 345 00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:30,880 that the code panel did a good job of actually expanding this out, making 346 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,599 it a little logical flow, trying to make sure that people are very clear 347 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:40,440 in their intent of their application. If you follow these pieces slowly, one 348 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,960 by one by one, it is a good example. In fact twenty twenty 349 00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:49,759 three, This one here, two thirty eighty five is a good example of 350 00:26:49,759 --> 00:26:55,000 a code panel getting the logical flow, in my opinion, right, and 351 00:26:55,039 --> 00:26:59,400 how they took something that seemed to be very compressed and it can go in 352 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:06,839 all different directions to now spitting it out easy to understand natural flow. Okay, 353 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,039 all right, hopefully you got something out of that. If you didn't, 354 00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:11,480 all right, I can't help you until next time. Stay safe, 355 00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:36,960 God bless ASK