What is up, fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am Dan's Valley coming at
you with my fantabu mystic co host Grant Hughes. We're going to get into
some peace or panic, as promise, but before we do, my usual
reminder slash. Please continue subscribing us to us wherever you consume us. If
that's on YouTube, hit the sub button. If you're new here, hit
the like button. Comment to help the algorithm love us back. Also download
us and subscribe to us on your podcast player of choice Spotify, Apple,
Stitcher, Google Cross sub on both YouTube and a podcast player. It helps
us out a ton. If you've done both those things, consider helping us
promote the podcast. Shout us out on Twitter, retweet our promos, word
of mouth, tell friends, family members, friendemies, random acquaintances that you
meet on the street or at the vote polls about us and how awesome this
podcast is or how not shitty, or if you really think it's shitty but
you hate listen anyway with them that that makes it a good listen as well.
Follow us on all the socials TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, What else
am I forgetting there? No? Those three those handles are all in the
podcast and YouTube description, and join our discord, where you will get I've
yet to do a Twitter We've yet to do a Twitter mail back. It's
all been Discord stuff so far this year, So get priority to having your
questions answered and joining great discussions happening that Grant and I don't even weigh in
on sometimes At this point, Grant definitely doesn't because he doesn't even know what
discord is. I don't think, but I don't even have to talk anymore
because everyone there is so awesome. So join our discord. The link is
in the podcast and YouTube description. With all that out of the way,
the question everyone is always dying to know the answer to Grant, how the
heck are you doing? I feel like I never have a good answer for
this. I wonder if that like I just don't want to reveal too much,
maybe like maybe that's maybe that's it. I don't want to put myself
out there. It's raining here in California, which is cool. That doesn't
happened very much, so I'm excited about that. And I hope all the
drips off of the drain pipe right outside my window are not too distracting for
you or the listeners. I don't hear even a little bit of it,
So forget I said that, then everything are you? Are you recovering from
that fifteen games late on Monday night? I mean that was a lot,
right, There was a lot of games I did. I watched because I
needed to see a win. I watched Warriors Kings most closely, but I
was jumping around. That's a lot of thing. You almost didn't get to
see a win, is what you're saying. I really did not think there
was gonna be a win right up until there was one. Uh. Yeah,
the Warriors have some issues that we will discuss, I think at some
length. But yeah, did you did you what did you focus in on
last night? Did you have a particular game you're watching? Yeah? So
I watched two games in full, and then I was bouncing around to like
the final quarters or closing stretchers of something. I saw the end of Warriors
Kings. Someone actually, Greg, friend of the podcast, learned me on
Twitter that the Kings were running out funky ass lineup. It's like, all
right, I guess I switched to this one since I was sort of in
between. But my main focus was Rockets Magic, which was well, it
was. It was like frenetic as hell. I really enjoyed it. Jowen
Green was like an incendiary device, but that was the game I focused on
at the start. But I'm not sure whether I would want more nights like
that, And it's I'm not sure if it's because we actually or we need
to, Like if I was just watching it as a fan and this isn't
an insult to a fan where I need to like process and synthesize this information,
yeah, I would probably enjoy it, but I would like, I
get overwhelmed by having the fifteen games. And if we go into this and
they're like, well, these are the things that you might have to cover,
and there's like eight different items that you might need to react to,
it's like, well, I can't watch eight games at once. Yes you
can. The crunch time like red Zony type thing that they did was.
I thought it was interesting and if it was like one night a week or
something, but it's just like, you can't run that consistently because then you're
just gonna have entire days where it is. I will say, as someone
who's sleeping patterns suck, it is nice to have. We're recording this on
a Tuesday. It's nice knowing there aren't games today, but like I would
rather have them spread out than like if there's two nights a week where they're
just aren't games, so that we could have these fifteen games slates. Yeah,
it was. It was overwhelming. That's why. Yeah, I couldn't.
I couldn't watch more than like five or ten minutes of any game other
than the main one I was watching. But I'll do the same thing where
I'll just go see, like which which game's close in the fourth if you
know, time being an issue, so I can like have a take on
whatever happened at the end of the heat game or you know whatever, which
which is pretty exciting actually last night. So that worked out. Well,
let's move into Peace or Panic. We got these from we we threw it
out. We have some teams that we're going to talk about ourselves towards the
end, but we threw this out Piece or Panic to our Discord members again
joined the Discord outs for that plug, and they gave us responses. So
we'll rotate and I'll begin grant this comes from Cold Piece or pad make Jalen
sucks. I love just the name as the first category. So this is
my first answer was peace because who cares, it's Orlando. So this is
my second shot at the magic. Already in this podcast. Great for the
first five minutes, they're like the twenty twenty eight NBA champions already. I
don't know what the magic slander is emanating over there in California. So it's
just bitter because you want their bench. I feel like, oh yeah,
as a Warriors fan, I mean I can't say anything about the magic.
And so that actually is a great jumping off point because if you only saw
Jalen Suggs play his most recent game against the Warriors, there would be total
piece here because he played the game of his life. I think he had
twenty six and nine, don't check me on those stats. He had several
steals, like a couple of which came on came against Steph Curry in the
late stages that more or less clinched the game. He hit a bunch of
big shots. But ultimately it's for me, it's a little more panic because
he, you know, has all defensive team potential, Like this is flashes
of Chris Dunn type stuff, which is not a name you want to necessarily
be compared to because Chris Dunn is not in the league, but the ball
just doesn't go in enough, right even with he's had a hot game or
two forty two point. This is going into last night's game, so these
may have changed a little bit, but you know, forty two six from
the field, twenty five nine from three, and sixty three two from the
foul line, which that's worse than last year. And just as a as
a measure of like is this guy a shooter? If you're not making free
throws, it's really hard to project like meaningful improvement and for Sugs to be
he went one of four on free throws against the Rockets, as someone who
watched that game, by the way he went down, So so it's just
like it's really difficult to envision a future in which Sugs is anything more than
you know, a defensive specialist that you know, if he's hot, then
great, he can help you on both ends. And he looks like a
you know, low end starter or rotation guy. He's suits, it's still
obviously, but just the key measures of just can he shoot, Like can
he put the ball in the basket enough to really matter? Not great,
not great, so so panic if you think Suggs is important enough, which
based on where he was drafted, like the magic feel that way, you
know, to bust is a strong word because he has some NBA skills,
but like that's something you might want to be thinking about already. I am
all the way peace here, and I don't know that I the free throw
shooting, sure, I just don't. Orlando doesn't have any other guards right
now, capable guards that are healthy, and Jowen Suggs is still doing a
lot of stuff that should be streamlined for him. The turnovers can remain an
issue. He needs to get better with his timing on like lobs and if
he wants to throw the court you know, those cross court passes, he
should be more sure that they're not going to go into the eighth row of
the stands when he's tossing them. So like I get that, but also
like this is still someone He's only made two assisted field goals this season,
and that's someone who I think, like, yeah, if you're worried about
the catch and shoot three point percentage right now, I get it. But
I do think that he's not really necessarily in the role that he would be
in long term, he's shooting sixty one point eight percent on two's fifty six
point three percent on drives. Limited number there, so there is still just
like a very useful NBA player. And he's also, by the way,
he's nine of eleven I pull up jumpers this year, and so like they're
still not giving him the best space to operate within. And I don't know
that that changes when you're looking at their guards getting healthier, because it's cool
Anthony and Martel faults. But I think what you mentioned about the expectations is
fair. Whereas if you're expecting him to be this all MBA type player,
is it maybe time to panic then sure, But in terms of like if
you thought he was just going to be a fringe star or an all star,
which is where I thought a lot of people sort of wound up.
I'm just I'm still very much peace here, and like there are new moving
parts the way Orlando's playing with the stuff they've run with Franz Wagner, him
and Jalen Sucks even a really nice chemistry as well, Paula Ben Carroll being
integrated into the offense. Yes, like I said, Jalen Sucks is lucky
that Wendel Carter Junior Bubbill have such a long catch radius on his passes.
Like we're not even halfway into his second season, and I don't know if
he is ever going to be if you took him out of the role of
I don't want to say primary point guard but like your one B playmaker even
like maybe that's not him, and you know what that's going to be,
okay, And so I am very much piece here. If you asked me
right now if I think he makes an All Star team for his career,
like, yeah, that's when it gets easier to hedge. But I would
still if it was set at point five, I would just take the over
anyway, because I'm not much of a believer in at least the flashes that
that he has shown. I do think, I mean, there are things
to let you know, I was all negative, but like he does play
really hard, and I think that that matters, and it seems like,
you know, the there should be a way for because like this is a
team built around Pala ban Carro. I think just that's already. I think
he's moble, but he's gonna be. Yeah, he's gonna be. We're
gonna have another magic question. He just made me remember, but if if
that's so, if if if Suggs is not going to be the primary ballhandler,
which I think some of his passing in decision making suggests he should not
be. He's got to make shots because like that's just the role that he's
going to be in. And I think, you know, Wagner too should
be someone that has the ball and can initiate and drive and kick. And
so you know, if you gave me the All Star bed and it was
point five, I go under. I just I just think it's really hard
for me to think of someone who came into the league and shot this badly
that ended up like correcting it to a level where he made sense as a
like as essentially like a catch and shoot guy that could be like a second
side attacker. I just you know, again, but it's super early,
like this is age twenty one season. He could get better. It's just
based on kind of past precedent and just thinking about who he reminds me of.
It's like Chris Dunn just keeps coming to mind, and that's that's not
great. And look to your point, catch and shoot threes account for over
twenty seven percent of his shots, he's hitting them at in eleven point eight
percent clips. I mean, that's got to come up obviously a little whoa.
I'm saying, like that's fair to I mean, but you're talking about
his free throw shooting. He's in the fifties now after that performance against the
Rockets, So it's it's definitely a concern. I'm just I'm not I'm not
there yet on the panic front. All right, I got I'll take this
one. This is from dark Wing Duck great h early to mid nineties show
on a Channel forty four where I lived. None of the jazz and draft
incredible. None of the jazz owned draft picks in twenty twenty three will be
lottery picks, piece or panic. I mean, they own a Minnesota picks,
so they're fine. So I mean, look the less favorable I guess
you're looking at their own, and then you have Minnesota's and then the less
favorable of Houston's, Brooklyn's and Phillies. They get right, that will be
in the lottery basically no matter what. Right Like that's because will make the
playoffs and you're getting at least favorable that So even if the nets and the
Rockets are both. Yeah, I'm gonna say piece here, I'm still not
convinced. I'm sold on the Jazz being good top in the West. I
mean, let's chill, but they run some just awesome lineups and playing five
out a ton and they really just like you know, when you look on
paper and I know that some of the guards have always crashed the glass hard
on Utah offensively, but like they're the top five offensive rebounding team right now.
Would you look at this roster on paper and expect them to be that?
No, And I'm getting a lot of those just like feelings about this
team where it's there. Yeah, they play hard, they're built randomly,
of course, but with an assortment of talent that you know is capable.
But they're doing things that you just don't like, you know, Jordan Clarkson
leveling up his passing not something that you would expect, Larry Market and doing
all kinds of things off the dribble, like becoming even the smarter cutter at
this point in his career. The chemistry that it seems like they have already
when you're looking at Sexton and some of the decision he's made to find his
seammates after leaving his feet. They haven't even been together that long. Why
is he making those decisions? Colin Sexton hitting pull up jumpers all of a
sudden, So there's just like they are good as constructed. I'm just not
convinced that Danny Ainge is going to let this stand. I mean, if
you're at the top of the West twenty games into the season, I guess
you're almost obligated to. I would say, of the picks that they have,
is there still the most likely to be in the lottery? And that
is the answer that I don't have because I'm so the vibes emanating out of
Minnesota just don't feel fantastic at the moment. So I'm going to say peace,
but we are. I'm gonna say this right now. We are about
one to two weeks away from panicking. If you want the Jazz to have
a lottery pick this season, yeah, I'm gonna panic now because I think
there are some indicators that you know, it was John Hollinger. I think
that noted that Utah opponents are just missing free throws at ridiculous rates, like
that's gonna normalize. They're opposent three point percentage I think is like the seventh
lowest, so that may normalize based on their overall like uh, location of
shots they're allowing. This is all from cleaning the glass. You know what,
what should the allowed effective field goal percentage be? Like that's pretty much
in line with what they're allowing. So like you know, even that,
there's not a clear sign of, oh the wheels are going to fall off
this thing. It's been smoking mirrors. I don't think that's the case at
all. But like so to me, you say, you know, say
say ten twenty more games go by and they're still first in the West,
Like maybe you really no, I think this All the moves that Utah made
once Danny Age was in charge were just totally designed to maximize championship equity.
It's like a Darryl Morey concept, right, like what what do you all
our percentage chance of winning a title? And like the first step in that
is, let's get as many high lottery picks as possible. And this this
year is the one that you have to get this year, right, because
it's Wembenyama. You have to get this one. So I think, like
you alluded to the longer this goes on, Like the more likely it is
that we just like we gotta trade Mike Conley, we gotta trade you know,
everybody. But really marketing is going nowhere. And I guess probably because
they signed Sexton as in the sign and trade, He's probably not going anywhere.
I don't know, Like Walker Kesseler, I guess probably as a keeper.
But like everybody else is just gonna get traded. They have to because
otherwise, like what's the upside of with this roster being the fifth or sixth
seed or whatever? It ends up being, like I don't you get some
reps for guys, but most of whom are not going to be part of
your core when you really are serious and contending in a real way, ideally
in like two three, four years. Like it just this was such a
big swing with such grand ideas and just such an obvious we're trying to win
a championship down the line by doing this. You can't you can't throw that
away because your team is surprisingly good and you might you know, win forty
five fifty games and then like where are you? You know? I just
so I'm paying I am panicking because I don't think that Wolves pick will be
in the lottery. And I don't think if they don't change something that their
picks gonna be in the lottery, or at least at the very least,
like not a high lottery pick where you're in the running for Scoot Henderson or
women Yama. First of all, you say they we're gonna win forty five
or forty six. They're on pace to win like sixty two. So why
don't, like, I think, I just don't. I'm at the point
where it's like, if you're this good, do you sort of lean into
it? And if you don't want to do that, then the decision needs
to be made yesterday, Like you're not you're not doing yourselves anything if this
is what if that's what you actually wanted to do. And I have no
idea what excuse me Danny Ainge is doing behind the scenes to him Adjustin's said,
I imagine like this is catching everyone off guarden Utah. But I think
you also look at their future draft equity, all the picks that they got
in these two trades. They're gonna have plenty of bites at the draft.
Apple and being accidentally awesome, as I phrased it on Twitter, I don't
really think that set you back too much because you're only gonna have at most
a fourteen percent chance of getting victory one Ban Yama anyway, and it's just
like you know, I, yes, that's better than a zero percent chance,
obviously, and this draft is considered very deep at the top. But
I just I can't like when you're this good already if you want to tear
it down like it needs to be made soon, because you're six and a
half games in front of the last place team in the West, and that's
right now, and we are at November eighth as we record this. That
distance probably isn't going to shrink at all if you continue leaving these players out
there. And it's a right now like I'm enjoying way more than I thought.
I thought I wasn't have to slog through watching the Jazz this year.
I thought they were gonna be one of my teams that when we have questions
on them, I have to go back and do the most research for where
I would probably they're the team that I'm not going to prioritize later in the
year unless they have someone who's young and standing out. They are fun to
watch and I personally, like the sentimentalist in me, like, I wouldn't
take a stick of dynamite to this roster right now because the Viyes are so
good. But yeah, there are some indicators where it's like, is this
really going to be the best offense in the league? And then you look
at what they're doing on offense and it's like, well, they're hitting thirty
eight percent of their threes, which seems high, but it's tenth in the
league. And it's just like, yeah, they're gonna take a bunch of
them. That just makes a ton of sense. And they're not shooting outlier
clips from really anywhere else. So and you look at the personnel on this
team when they're playing for like, why wouldn't they shoot an above average clip
from three? So I get, I get what you're saying. I guess
my thing would be like, if you're not going to make the decision to
shut guys down or to trade them, I'll give them till Thanksgiving. Then
don't make that decision. And I don't think it actually pam strings them as
much moving forward because they have all those other draft picks, and I would
think, and I'll point to, look, what's happening in Brooklyn, where
Houston decided, hey, we're gonna bet against Brooklyn's future. I'm not saying
Minnesota or Cleveland is nearly as dysfunctional and their stars are not. And you're,
especially in Cleveland, aren't you nearly as old? But like you have
so many draft picks coming that one of those might end up turning into it
doesn't have to be one of your own necessarily, Yeah, I take.
I think it's it is interesting that, like, you know, I think
we all came into the year thinking, like the Jazz are gonna be really
bad on purpose, but they're gonna have to trade some guys, and we
sort of, i think all assumed that it would be pretty easy to do
that, and it's just kind of like, well, really it's opening schedule
made me think like, oh, they can slow play this because look at
the teams that they've beaten. Well that's the thing, like, now you've
got these wins banked, like you can't take off. So if you do
decide to pivot, if and when teams come calling, or if and when
you know, you know, somebody wants Conley, We're gonna get to that
in a second. It might be too late. It might be too late,
and it's just it's very difficult to make a big like tear it down
trade and freaking early to mid November like that just doesn't really happen. So
yeah, they that's why I'm panicking. Is this like they're stuck on a
track they did not expect and did not want. So I think, yeah,
it's they're gonna be one of the most interesting teams, you know,
unless and until they don't steer into it. I'd be curious. And I
know we have a lot of jazz fans that listen to this podcast what their
actual thoughts on this are, whether they're enjoying this or there's like you're enjoying
it in the back of your mind, like no, we want because we
had questions. It seemed like the fan base was concerned they actually weren't going
to tank hard enough this year, and lo and behold, they're not.
And I look, I get either stance, like it doesn't always pay to
be I think again, I've said this twice, I should have really like,
I think it's the twenty twelve twenty thirteen Nuggets where it's the year after
they trade Mellow and they're also just really good and they w win fifty plus
games and it's like that core wasn't sustainable, but it was also just like
it was fun. And so I can't as long as this is happening,
but I just I can't bring myself to and so like around Thanksgiving, I
think is when you need to have by like by then though, you need
to have your direction set where it's some of these guys, I mean,
that's too early to shut layers down. But like, which is hard because
if you don't think you're gonna move you know, Sexton and marketing and sex
it is not even trade eligible at the most, right, So it's just
like but like maybe you like to be so committed to it, like you're
gonna have to look, all right, well there's Conley, there's Clarkson,
there's Malik Beasley out there, and maybe even look, maybe you look at
moving Larry Marketing, Like what do you get for Larry Marketing? Right now?
What would the Lakers give do the rush trade built around Larry Marketing for
two picks and a swap, like right, like give you more than the
two and you have to give someone else there. They probably wouldn't because that
front office has no idea what they're doing, but so I'll give them to
Thanksgiving. So I get if you want them to tank. It's I think
it's a panic. I'm just kind of enjoying what I'm seeing and I still
don't It's not that I don't believe it. I don't believe that Danny Ainge
and Justin's Addeck won't do something about it. I guess is where I'm at.
Agree. I agree, it's like they have to our next piece or
panic piece or panic from no name for God. The Nuggets should trade for
a veteran point guard like Mike Conley. Outside of Jamal Murray, they have
bones highland ishmith, both of whom are nursing some minor stuff, and I
feel the Nuggets would benefit hugely from an experienced court general slash score. How
would that trade look? And so I guess the first piece or panic here
is, do you think the Nugget like the Nuggets need to trade for a
veteran floor General's That's an easy piece for me because this is a top five
offense with some underperformance so far, and you have Yoka, who's essentially one
of the best point guards in the league. Just at a different size than
you're seeing. You know, Murray I think has had a couple flashes,
generally disappointing. He's going to get better. I like I think Highland,
you know, defensively. That's basically my macro take is, like the Nuggets
are fine on offense. I'm not concerned with enough them having enough facilitation with
the offense running fine, like in the minutes that matter, Yoka just gonna
have the ball and I trust that they'll be good results offensively. If Yoga
gets hurt, Mike Comly's not going to save you. So I don't.
And that ties into the other part of the question is like there really isn't
a realistic way to get someone like Conley, who's making twenty two just a
little under twenty three million this year, non guaranteed twenty four and a half
next year because you're trading Aaron Gordon, you're trading Caldwell, Pope and somebody
else to make that happen. So if you want to go looking for like
so, I'm not giving up an asset to try to get someone like Conley,
who I think just wouldn't wouldn't play a big enough role or wouldn't improve
you enough in the ways you need to improve, like defensively, for example,
to really justify giving up what would be a significant like a starter level
asset potentially just for salary matching purposes. So you know, just looking at
like the free agent point guards that are still unsigned are bad, Like if
that's the concern, Like is DJ Augustine better than Ish Smith? I mean
the fact that one's employed and the others not suggests that's an easy answer.
I mean, like Rondo Eric Bledsoe, Like I don't I don't see so
I basically like this is a chill like pieces fine here because the Nuggets offensively
have been great without like a conventional point guard forever Monte Morris was good in
that role. I think their offense is still great and will be great,
and you know championship caliber without him, defense is gonna just be the problem.
And I don't see a point guard one you'd have to give up something
big to get like fixing fixing that right, yeah, Like could you maybe
do something for t J McConnell just because the salary is smaller there? I
don't even think Patty, let's say the Brooklyn Nets tear it down. I
don't think Patty Mills really gives them what they're looking for. It's a it's
a piece for me too. And I think also they've started to find if
you're worried about Bones Highland remaining healthy, okay, but they started to find
like bench units that have Michael when when Jamal Murray and Yokich aren't playing and
you have Bones and Michael Porter Junior on the court. The Nuggets have a
one eighteen two offensive rating and they're outscoring opponents by twelve point five points per
one hundred possessions. If you don't think that's playoff proof, that's fine.
You probably shouldn't be in a situation where you have more than one star off
the court anyway in a playoff series at this point, unless that lineup is
straight killing it. I'm with you that the trade is too difficult to make.
And then if you were going to make a swing, it needs to
be bigger scale, and I don't think that you would look at the point
guard market if you're going to do that, and that we actually have a
question. I don't know if it's the next one, the piece or panic
that gets into it. Yeah, after this one, So I wouldn't if
there's a smaller move to be made that like can you get TJM? Like,
yeah, that just might be you know you use I guess is Smith
and then like, are you willing to move Zekenagy at this point? He's
banged up and you were touting his promise coming into training camp only to barely
play him in the preseason. So I guess they could look at that,
but I wouldn't view it as just like a need. I would view what
we're about to discuss as like the more alarming aspect of this team. Yeah,
so let's get to that. And I'm really glad I'm throwing this to
you because I have been thinking too much about Anthony Davis trades lately for work.
So I don't want to deal with this until I hear you say this
is from Nugs. The Nuggets defense remains average to crappy, and they trade
MPG for Jimmy Butler or KD. Where do you want to start with that
one? I'm almost ready to say panic, just because it's like their ball
containment on what I've watched, has been really bad. They're allowing opponents to
shoot above seventy percent at the rim, outside of garbage time, which is
also lo and behold very bad. Those two things might be related by let
me interrupt you, I'm sorry because that I fixated on that too, And
then my knee jerk reaction was like, God, damn it, yokis like
this. You can never build a championship defense around him. It's not his
fault. It doesn't look like it's his fault, like structurally maybe, but
like they defend the rim better when he's in the game, and it really
does just seem like perim. It's it's the Rudy Gobert thing, the Utah
thing. The guys on the perimeter don't stay in front of anybody, and
so that's where the lay up parade starts. Sorry continue, I will also
say, but I will say I wouldn't trade for Kevin Durant because this team
doesn't need Kevin Durant, right. He's I don't want to say he's like,
he's not the same player as my he's better defensively than Michael Porters.
You don't want to get that clear, Like Kevin Durant isn't fixing your perimeter
defensive issues, nor is he might be if you're looking for like a back
line rim protector. Okay, like he can do that stuff, but Jimmy
Butler would be the name you're throwing out there. I'm trying to think of
just like another player. It's it depends on Look all right, I'm gonna
phrase it this way. I'm going to say peace in this or no,
I'm gonna say panic that if you can. I don't think the defense is
gonna be good. I was high on they were my championship pick. I
don't think that they're, like, you know, gonna be the worst defense
in the league. I've even stopped checking on where they rank because it just
makes me sad and how much I missed on their defense. They are twenty
seconds, so they're actually a little bit higher than I thought. Right now,
everything's fine, so peace, but panic in the sense that I don't
think this is going to be a noticeably above average defensive team and hope maybe
they'll prove me wrong just for my title pick and look good. I just
don't know. This comes back to like, what trades are you supposed to
make? And it has to be if you're moving Michael Porter Junior one,
does it want him? Knowing his chronic back injuries that he has. He
is one of the greatest shooters in the league right now, just like and
I think he could do more in a larger role if you're not asking him
to play make because I just don't see it there. But like, what
is what is the baseline return you're willing to move him for? Like would
you this is I'm just throwing this out there because I know he's not available,
Like would you move Michael Porter Jr. And it would have to be
a bigger trade for Ogna Nobi. That's the first name I thought of.
I'm not trying to pillage the Raptors roster. It's just like that's the like
the non star type where you would give up real assets to acquire him,
right, Like that's the thing I mean, So the other name and this
is even this is so beyond implausible, never gonna happen, that there's no
point, but like someone will as someone like as if there's another like Evan
Mobley, like someone that is long that could switch, that could cover mistakes
that like when bone Bones Higland gets blown by he you know, operates from
the three point arc to the rim and like snuffs it out like someone like
that and Obi is going to shut down whoever he's on the ball guarding.
But like, you know, the other thing is it's disappointing, right because
the theory of the team was okay, So KCP reputed as a good on
ball defender. Maybe that's a little outdated, but still solid. Bruce Brown
like basically stayed in the league because he could defend, and then the nets
turned him into like a role man. But and then Aaron Gordon is supposed
to be a good defender too, So really, like it's Murray and Yokich
that are killing your defense. And we've already said that Yokich, like limited
as he is, like doesn't seem to be the real problem. So to
me, I'm gonna say peace. I think MPJ is just super valuable if
he's healthy, because he's just a five alarm fire all the time. And
he's the other along with Yokich, Like he's the guy that makes this offense
so good that you could have the twenty second ranked defense, and like you
know, playoffs are a different story. But it's just he's so valuable,
and I I don't know, like an Andobi is an interesting guy. I
think that's the type you're looking for. I just I would just hope that
some of your preseason expectations of the defensive editions you made, like improving the
defense will sort of come out as we go forward, just because otherwise they're
talking a drastic move and I just I don't see an easy way to do
that. No, and like they're gonna have the pick equity, imminent pick
equity didn't do it. So it's like if Dylan Brooks became available in Memphis
for some reason. That's also is what is the name? What you know
Jimmy Butler has to ask her out in Miami? You mentioned Anny Davis.
I'm assuming it's like a joke, but that wouldn't be like that would make
a lot of sense. Yeah, but so that they don't have the picks
to do that, is it porter and picks? Like well, I mean
they're both have like their Anthony Davis's chronic injury is getting injured. So like,
is there like a sort of an even swat there almost? But I
don't. I'm just trying to take the name. I mean, oh,
Gianna Nooby was the one that sprang to mind because he's the archetype of player
that I do feel like this team still kind of needs there's no one even
you want to be interesting, But what are you gonna say, Draymond,
Oh no, that would be interesting. Actually, wow, I didn't think
that. I was gonna say, like, I don't know if they're there
yet, and we're gonna talk about them labor like if the Clippers are just
like right, like we're gonna trade Paul George, like that would be someone
that would that would and so like can you use Michael Porter Junior? Though,
let's say if that type of player hits the block, does Michael Porter
Junior even give you an inlet to being involved in those in those discussions,
I have such a hard time putting a value on on Porter Junior just because,
like the injury questions are so legit, you know, and so,
but there's also no question that like when he's on the floor, he's the
spacing he brings that he can create his own show. Just the shooting is
just it's the premium skill, right, It's the premium skill and he's got
it. So it's it's hard to figure out, like what he's worth.
I don't know, that's an interesting question. And the defense is the problem
that there's there's no doubt about that kind of looping. These two nuggets questions
together. I will say, so we umps I went panic, But if
we were just to boil it down to the defense in general, would it
both just be a panic there for Den Yeah, mild for me, just
because I do have some faith that the additions they made can get this up,
you know, into the same middle of the pack on defense instead of
you know, bottom ten, which is not you know, it's not like
a huge leap right now. Next one comes from Herb Jones Enjoyer Peace or
Panic rant Zion's defense and more specifically, how inconsistent he is while having moments
of brilliance. So, first of all, if if you're Herb Jones Enjoyer
and so obviously you appreciate great defense, and then you're gonna have to watch
Zion play defense. It's like Lamborghini Enjoyer saying like this Toyota Corolla sucks.
Like that's just like two separate species of defensive player. I think, I
mean, I don't know what's what how to say if I'm I mean,
I'm at peace with the fact that Zion is never going to be a good
defensive player, I think, I guess, I guess do you want to
pay anak about that? If you're the Pelicans? Like he just I mean
just physically right, he doesn't move laterally well at all, so and he's
not his wingspan is not long. So like there's two major components of good
defenders that he just is never going to have. I think he like the
inattentiveness, which I think this question really kind of focuses on. It's just
yeah, that can improve, right, Like he could he could be more
dialed in, he could be more consistent, he could quit losing his guy
on back cuts or just totally like spacing on he needs to make this close
out or help the helper here. Like that's all. I mean, that's
been there as an issue for him from like the second he was debuted in
the NBA, which makes sense not to make excuses for him, but like
he's never had to play defense. He's always been just you know, au
whatever level, he's just the guy that has the ball, scores a ton,
dunks on everybody, and just is the offensive engine. Probably never really
been asked to play defense in any kind of serious way. So I mean,
in addition to having like physical limitations. He just isn't he doesn't have
the wiring. I don't think it hasn't, you know, it hasn't been
developed. So yeah, I mean panic if you because look, this Pelicans
team is good there I think five and five now, but I think we
both agree that they're you know, still really exciting and once they're all healthy
better than that. You're gonna get into playoff series and like guess who's getting
targeted that that's gonna be an issue. So if you think this Pelicans team
is really going to be great, which is not unreasonable, then you probably
do panic about a guy that you are gonna have on the floor in major
meaningful stretches against really good teams that are smart, and he's gonna get they're
gonna go at him, and he's not gonna hold up very well. I
don't think. So that's that's worth panicking if you're thinking like really big picture
for what the Pelicans are trying to do, I would say panic as well
about his defense. And we've seen like we've seen the moments, especially on
ball, but then there's just like, you know, he got torched at
a bunch of points in that game that they played against the jazz, and
it's just he always seems like his bodies like in the wrong spot, or
he's just giving everyone the room to get by him. And someone who is
still even you think he's imperfect athletically now following his injuries is built to not
let that happen like it's it's concerning, And I do think Michael Pena wrote
about this for The Ringer that the fact that Zion at the five is luxury
more than necessity now helps you a little bit moving forward. But you just
mentioned it going into a playoff series where if you're going to be targeted,
like they have a guy in Zion that they can go after. I am
willing to give him the benefit of the doubt an extent where it's okay,
he's coming back from a serious foot injury now he's dealt with some hip stuff.
When that could I would imagine like having a hip injury can affect turning
your body properly when you're trying to defend on the ball. So I want
to say peace, mostly because we rush to coornate the Pelicans. I don't
want to be I want I want to be as right about the Pelicans as
I was about the calves, but I think it's fair to just like,
no, that's just something that you're gonna have to plan around at this point.
Like the athletic tools on offense aren't always gonna translate to the defensive end
for him, but like in they'll be moments where he can do it,
which is fine. Maybe you fast forward a few years and like it's better,
but it probably won't be because he's in his athletic prime now and I
think people are kind of in general like to prevailing consensus is that his prime
is going to be I don't want to say shorter, but it's going to
come earlier, just based off what makes him so good. If you're worried
about like some of the shot selection this year on offense, I would just
give it peace. Like he's traded in a lot of looks at the rim
for like more of those short mid rangers which he's just not making. And
I think if he changes just his decision making there specifically, and then some
of the lineups he've been playing in have not been ideal for that, So
I'd be pieced there. But for the defense, I think it's if you
think he needs to be a let's say, a serviceable defender for this team
to reach its peak. Then yet I would probably argue it's time to panic.
And that's a weird thing to say. With Trey Murphy and Herb Jones
and Dyson Daniels there, and even like having Jose Alvarado there as well,
but like and then brandon Ingram has been but he's even like, you know,
we talked about this with the Warriors, where the guys feel like they
overreact because they have to cover up for James Wiseman. There's a little bit
of that when you look behind Zion on some place when he's pulled out,
there are guys overreacting behind him, and that's that's difficult to overcome. I
don't know where I stand on what that does to the Pelican ceiling, because
I do think he is so unbelievably transcendent and dominant on the offensive end,
it ultimately is worth it to just still like, no, we're building this
team around Zione. Of course, that's what we're doing. But I think
the defense in general, we're probably at the point where it's we shouldn't be
waiting on him to become this I don't even want to say exceptional but like
good or a liable defending passible like you playable, and he's very passible at
the moment, it's very easy to get past. Well. I just I
think one point of this slightly encouraging is like he did you know, he
did drop weight and he did get into better shape, So like he can
do that, and maybe maybe that's something else he's never really been asked to
do, like play defense, And I think it's encouraging that, you know,
he did. Look, he has looked better just from a from a
body composition standpoint this year. So maybe like as he gets a little further
removed from the foot, as he maybe continues to lean out a little more,
you know, he can at least be a little more mobile flexible.
You know, I think of someone like not to keep bringing it back to
the Warriors, but like Kevon Looney had two hip surgeries, right and just
like moved like he was fifty initially and then like got into yoga and just
I mean he granted he came up as a guard, so he had like
perimeter defensive skills, but like guys can get more mobile and flexible and get
down in a stance better. It just takes like a ton of work.
So I mean it's not it's not impossible, but Zion just because of his
frame, has like a lot of really like difficult, like you know,
obstacles i'd say to to like, you know, improve substantially. Let's talk
about someone with a very different frame. This is from Yoga Joe Star mobamb
Those window to become an NBA player is closing with bull ball showing out.
I guess that'd be panic because first of all, I know he got his
like quote unquote money, but it never made sense to bring him back even
though he proved last year, like oh there is the element of the floor
spacing rim protector from him. But like you had power Bank, Caro,
you had well you thought you were gonna have Jonathan Isaac, who said the
other day like he's closer than ever to the returning I was like, what's
that even fucking mean? Like you picked up a basketball today? Is that
what that means? You put down the you put down the typewriter for your
latest non bestseller and was able to pick up a basketball anti vax campaign,
right, So I it's a panic because like I don't see what the pathway
is two minutes for him. He did because I watched Magic Houston, like
he was kind of this de gensive jolt against Shane Gun It points he had
a good game last night, so maybe that, But it's like, what
is the pathway long term for him? Maybe panic saying he can't be an
NBA players a little strong. We haven't seen him outside Orlando's ecosystem, which
has always been just clogged on the front line doesn't provide enough spacing to begin
with. So yeah, I would like to see him elsewhere. But because
bow Bull, who was just more dynamic on offense when you look at what
he can do with the ball in his hands and like those finishes he's able
to make turning corners, what is the There's no argument to find bomba consistent
playing time and oh hey, that's gonna get harder if Jonathan Isaac ever does
transition from author to basketball player again. So it's just like, I feel
like I don't want to blame it on the Magic and Bamba's dealt with a
lot of injuries. He dealt with consition conditioning issues as well. I believe
he was also hit hard when he got sick or had COVID. I'm not
sure if it was last year or the year before, so like they have
been obstacles. But yeah, the windows closing, Like we're on this dude's
second contract, he's coming off a standout year and can't find minutes on a
team that's like not they're not They're fun to watch and like they've put up
a lot of fight, but like they're not invested in the immediate as much
as some of these other teams. So I will say panic. I just
don't know, like who is emotionally invested in the outcome of mobile career that
they're actually panicking. Oh I'm not dismissing. I want to see him elsewhere.
I just don't know, you know, if you're if you're holding him
to being a top seven, top five draft prospect. Yeah, it's definitely
tone to panic about that. Yeah. There I'm gonna I'm gonna like really
zero in on the actual verbiage of the question, is window to become an
NBA player is closing? Like one, he's already an NBA player, he's
and he's got a second contract, So I'm not sure that windows shut you
know what. I think the intention of the question is, like is he
ever going to get out in front of Bull Bull now in the rotation,
and that's like that might be a little panicky. Let's see bull Bull like
sustain this though, right, like an entire season two because he's dealt with
his own injury right and had like some character and maturity concerns like coming out
of the draft. That's why he's like let's let's see right, plus like
such an unusual player, right, he's just like he has on ball skills.
He's i mean the shop blocking like he's already Bomba does not have the
edge there, but like look Bomba last year fifteen and eleven with two blocks
per thirty six minutes. You're never gonna play him thirty six minutes. But
he did start sixty nine games, so like for a bad team, sure,
but like he's an NBA player, And the idea of like if he's
your I mean, if he's your third big, that's a luxury. A
guy that can can stretch the floor in block shots like that's that's better than
a lot of third bigs are going to do for you. So he's gonna
be around. I think it's just like you know, with with the magic
probably not unless bull Bowl just you know this is we look back on this
in like January and say, hey, remember that incredible early stretch when bull
Bowl, who's in the G League now was looked like starter, Like,
that's not off the table yet. I'm just I'm just gonna put that out
there. This all ends with Mobamba eventually running point for the Raptors that it's
the only way. Uh. Next up, this one comes from Usher.
Is CP three just having a slow start or is he officially now the best
passing bricklayer. I'm gonna say peace. I mean, even though he did
leave last night's game with like a I think it was a heel soreness or
heel contusion or something messaging. We haven't heard anything additionally on that, but
the messaging coming out of that was if he could play, he would have,
but he couldn't. It's what he said. But he's also not concerned
about it. Yeah, yeah, I get it. Be bold, it's
I mean, so the number look like the trend line is going down right,
Like he's in the low thirties from three last year, he's a twenty
seven percent going into last night this year, thirty six percent from the field,
I mean, combined with being thirty seven years old, Like, eventually
something's gonna go You're not gonna, you know, never getting that old.
I'm already that'll be great forever. I can tell you from experience, You're
never gonna be that your best forever. I do think it's positive that he's
taking more threes as a percentage of his fiegal attempts than he has in any
year of his career outside of the Houston years, where they just like,
you know, punish you for not shooting a bunch of threes in that era.
So, I mean, if you're going to try to make up some
of the drop you're getting in effective field, will percentage shooting a lot of
threes is a decent way to do it. He's never been a high volume
guy. I think you can tilt the math a little bit in your favor.
That doesn't change the fact that, like, he is just worse as
a shooter this year, and it's a continuation of a trend. I'm just
not ready to panic yet. He's still averaging tenn assist the game. He's
still is one of the smartest players in the league. You know, all
that stuff is great, and I guess I just trust him to make shots.
From the elbow in playoff series, which is like really all you need
him to do from a scoring perspective. He's shooting fifty percent on his pull
up twos now, so that has come up. He's however, he is
shooting twenty two point two percent on his pull up threes, and that's like
been his shot even when he wasn't considered the three point shooter. What I
will say, and I do wonder if there's an element of transitory wrinkles here.
He's taking a lot more of his shots in catching shoot situations. Catch
and shoot threes of account for about twenty percent of his attempts this year.
That number was at seven point one percent last year. So he's the fact
that he's shooting thirty three point three percent on catching shoot threes, that's actually
higher than you might expect at this point, which is where we're at.
You could see that number coming up because it's come up, but it's a
volume thing. You're also just looking at his you know, looks in general
where it does feel like he can be more stationary on offense at points,
or at least be without the ball. Thirty nine point three percent of his
shots have come off assists this year that is down from fifteen or up from
fifteen point two percent last year. There's a drastically different role being played for
him on offense, and so I'm very much at peace until like, if
this sustains through the All Star break, the shooting, then it's a concern
because in theory his offensive responsibility. I don't want to say it's gotten easier,
but for stretches, it is more streamlined than it was because Devin Booker
exists, which is a luxury if you're worried about the large or picture where
it's okay, well, what does he look like on defense come playoff time
and his health? Yeah, like maybe it's time to panic a little bit
where it's like, Okay, the Sons have navigated no Jay Crowder, now
Cam Johnson is out for a couple of months. The bench has been better
than we'd expect. Are we throwing one too many? Like oh fox into
the equation here and now P three is injured and not shooting. Well,
I'm I'm going to go with peace because I do think his offensive usage despite
the assists, has been I don't want to go as far as say it's
dramatically different, but it's it's it's materially different than it has been in years
past. I think, wouldn't you say though that to the Sons won sixty
four games last year and Chris Paul played pretty much this typical role, not
not you know, prime Chris Paul, but like like you said, right,
he was doing a lot more self creation, a lot less catch and
shoot and like like everybody else, but you know, he wore down and
wouldn't this wouldn't this role change be exactly the approach you'd want to take,
so that you know he's doing his lift isn't as heavy and you have the
luxury of Devin Booker being great and being able to do on ball stuff.
You're trying to preserve him. Maybe, like maybe that's the charitable take,
is like this is intentional and it's a weird role change, and he's not
used to it, combined with a little bit of aging, and that's why,
like the numbers are what they are and they're not encouraging. I think
there's a real great chance that like the Sun's son's got you know, left
with nothing after sixty four wins last year, So it's kind of like,
well, what really matters let's make sure we're you know, in one piece
and in decent shape, especially Chris Paul for the games that actually count that
we care about, that we need to win, you know, in May
and even June, you know, best case scenario. I think there's an
element of that. I think that this could just be intentional and he's not
used to it, and that's a factor too, And that's also what could
make it so disarming, is because that's so counterintuitive to what we've known about
c P three. And also, look, they're playing him thirty minutes per
game as opposed to thirty three, so that's already pulled back. You're looking
at his time of possession last year is compared to this year. Is actually
it's lower, which is not surprising there, and it's lower relative to like
you wouldn't expect just that drop off from the minutes that he is not playing
his I think his front court touches were about the same. Yeah, they're
actually they're higher this year than they were last year. But just like his
role has changed and the fact that it's the shooting that is like the biggest
But maybe it's the health you're worried about, or how we can look in
certain defensive situation. But the fact that it's the shooting and we still sort
of see him manipulate, like switches off the dribble. He's not cooking guys
like he used to do to Rudy Gobert, but that he's still so comfortable
getting too his spots that makes me even more confident that it's like these numbers
will normalize. Yeah. The trick with this is like what it looks like
right now is so we're preserving Chris Paul versus Chris Paul is starting to be
pretty washed, is like indistinguishable, and you're just not gonna know until the
playoffs where either he keeps doing this or the kind of refer back to oh,
he's like he's still kind of that guy. They'll be interesting, you
know, So we were not gonna know. I don't think can I throw
my own curveball here? Peace or panic? The Sun's need to trade for
someone who will be in their closing lineup or is their sixth best player at
worst? I mean, yeah, the one is just piece because it's like,
unless you think Cam Johnson's gonna be out the rest of the year,
it's there's Cam. There's eight and there's Bridges, there's Paul, and there's
Devin Booker. And so to say that they need to trade for someone in
the closing lineup would be are you saying CP three is cooked or that you
don't believe in cam or maybe that Look, you could just say Jacque Landale's
there, like why do you need Deondre? And should we revisit this Kevin
Durant stuff. I mean the eight and trade is the one that like,
if you're gonna do something, I think that's that's who you look at.
But you can't do anything with him for what at least another month? Yeah,
I think two months. The Johnson it was today that it was a
meniscus trim instead of a repair, So that's the shorter return timeline. It's
like a one to two months thing. So theoretically will be okay. But
yeah, no, they do feel like guy Short, don't you think,
like, you know, like tweet, I want to get like a certain
you know, combo forward that maybe like would be in a huge role right
now if he had just hung out for a little bit. Yeah, maybe
that they're they're a specific Guy Short. I guess it feels like he's probably
not even be guy that they actually need when you look at this room.
But so I mean, like Dario Starch at the four Now, difference between
like oh Damian Lee and Tory Craig and Josh Akogi are super important. And
oh we have Jake Roder like there's a there's a big, big dip there.
Well, boy, we close that out with a lot of panic.
Uh, let's let's go. Uh. We don't need to panic about just
another phenomenal pod because we did it, Dan, We delivered five stars from
the five Stars, five stars to you, five stars to everybody that's gonna
do it for us. Thanks for listening. Everybody, Please remember, like
Dan said at the top, download, comment, like great review, subscribe,
smash all the buttons. Uh, you know, check us out on
our socials, engage with us, get on the discord. You can find
all the information on that stuff in the YouTube and podcast description. Tell your
friends, tell your enemies, help us. Just keep building this because we
like doing it and we like interacting with you guys. So in closing,
I would again just like to apologize to the one and only Jared Allen and
you forgot to shout out Frankie Lakina I'm always gonna I'm gonna let you shout
out. Frankie Lakina. That's yours, who is healthy and available to play
as we record this. So the Mavericks are going to win the twenty twenty
three NBA title.