What is up, fellow thermonuclear A Eppers, I am a dam valley coming at you with my fans. Have you listic equally? Thermonuclear AF co host Grant Hughes before we hop into Hot or Not two point zero, which will probably be another two podcaster, but Hot or Not two point zero where we respond to your hot takes and we throw a couple of our own at each other and determine whether they are just a fact, which would be not, or there are levels to the hotness spicy as in, oh, this is intriguing, but it might be true, or this is off the rails? And what drugs are you on? We would we would like to consume some. But before we get started, please remember to subscribe to us wherever you're consuming us. If you're checking us out on YouTube, hit that light button, subscribe. More importantly, comment help the out where them love us back a little bit. 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It doesn't really work here, But how are you doing? That's a hot question. You know. I feel like I am I'm Andrew nm harding right now, which just means I'm I'm really just out of my head delirious. Sounds like a sexual thing too, A little bit that sounds bad, doesn't. We're recording this just a few short hours after Andrew nm hard turned into like a better version of Tyrese Halibert and then killed the Warriors. So it's a very it's a great way to feel. We should all feel like Andrew Nemhard felt against the Warriors. Yeah, I'm so Andrew Nemhard right now. So to get into this hot great, you got it, you got there. We should look. We have one that's tangentially a rated on him. I think I put it. I don't know why I put it at the oh here it is from if you if you don't care about me starting, but that's pretty topical, and I'm sure you watch your team get absolutely slaughtered by the Pyres. Haliburton lists Indiana Pacers, So from Austin, I'm premous hot or not? Who the Pacers have any shot at having two all rookie players Mathin and Nemhard. Has this happened in recent history? Slash ever? I did this came in last minute. I did look it up. It happened recently. John Marrett and Brandon Clark did it, So it's happened, It's happened before. So that part of the question is is pretty straightforward. Well, first of all, since I copied and pascered this onto my own dock from when the one you sent me, that's a real surprise. Hot or not. But I'm prepared I'm prepared to go in for this. I think it's a there's a decent chance Themhard's gonna have to really work to Matherin's like a lock, right, I mean he's other than bankro. I think he's probably he's just Rookie of the Year. Yeah, right, so, yeah, he's got a great All Rookie shot. I don't know. There's a lot of the thing is so we have a related question later about some of the best rookies this year being guards shooting guards specifically, There's gonna be a fair amount of competition for an All rookie spot in the backcourt. So you know, if he plays with Warriors every night, excellent chance. But like you said, it's pretty rare. So I'm gonna need to see another couple weeks or a month of this, and the opportunity may not be there, you know, with the Pacers healthier, although they trade Buddy healed, I don't know, maybe there's a spot there. And also Duarte before he was injured wasn't really good. Right, Yeah, that's the other thing. So you should get an opportunity, but I need to see a little more before I can get There's a lot of good guards in this rookie class, So I'm not I'm not quite sold on him. That probably is just being bitter over what he did. I think this is hot just because like it's kind of early, but I don't think it's it's too hot. And Caitlin Cooper Viny cormros that wrote something about namharda I think it was last week, so he was like, this has not been like a you know, a steady debtonation, but it's been a steady stream of contributions from him. And I think when you watch him play, like there's a reason to give him minutes where it's like even if you don't make moves, like, well, it's your buddy healed, and like do you need to prioritize ever playing a TV McConnell over him. I'm gonna say, if I had to predict, I'm gonna say that he makes one, just because I think it helps that with the all rookie teams, like positions just don't even matter, right, I think, unless I'm wrong, I go, I second guess myself on that every single year. Yeah, rookie's clear the positions don't matter. So I think that really helps him. And there's like even if he doesn't make an All Rookie team. I'm just in there's like a field that the Warriors were trapping him in a half court and he was just like, like this is fine. He has like so many different like ways to maneuver on ball in his arsenal, who's hitting step backs, looks very comfortable getting through traffic. And I've actually I've watched more than just the Warriors game of him. So I don't know if he makes an All rook team. He's like you said, there's a lot of just like talent. Are there ten rookies better than him right now? I mean, and like I might be just a prisoner of the moment. I'm just gonna say, oh no, he's clearly been one of the ten most impactful rookies. But like even in a J Griffin, a Walker Kessler, like a Taris and like, these are guys that aren't getting a lot of national love at the moment, or but they're still they've still been really good. It's like they might be in the conversation, I'm gonna say, it's not it's hot, but it's it's not too hot. Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. I didn't I forgot about the position thing too. I mean I think we would agree that, Like really, that's why we keep positions on the regular all NBA, right right, like Bank Carro Matherin, Ivy Shaden Sharp, Keegan Murray. Daniels is gonna get love for that, Daniels Williams, A J. Griffin, probably Kessler Easton, you said, I mean Jeremy Sohan, maybe during Bari Smith we have How is it that's rough that we have to go that far down the list of Actually he's been shooting it a lot better. We shouldn't. We shouldn't shoot on jaw Barry Smith. But there's a lot of good rookies this year so far. I mean, a couple will get hurt, the couple will lose time, you know that. So there's a there's a shot. I agree, hot, but not like you know, you need to be committed for thinking this. I'll throw you the I'll go back to the top here because Devin Booker is your guy, and the Sons are your favorite team on the planet, and you always pick them to win the title, except when you pick the Nuggets hot or not. Devin Booker is the best mid range shooter. Mid range scorer in the league. I'm gonna be specific with that wording because I think that's important here. I feel like it's this is from Usher. If I didn't say that, I feel like it's a tight race between him and Katie and honorable mentioned to Derosen. I really appreciate that Usher listens to this podcast. I'm sure he has like a very busy schedule, so it means a lot that all the dancing I don't know as time. So it's this is topical because I just did an article on which players are adding the most valueous shooters, and I broke it down by zone corners, above the break threes, and then mid range, like anything outside the paint was what I was looking at. Devin Booker does not grade out statistically as the most valuable mid range score. That is Kevin Durant, who, by the way, is like adding below average value from three both areas. But he's just like so far and away, like the best mid range shooter in the game right now, like fifty five percent on his mid range jumpers or whatever it is that he wins that category. Derosen is number two and Devin Booker is number three, and so it's like the three people that you would expect to be in there are there, and if Steph took more of them, I feel like you probably just expect Steph to be in there. I will say when I watch him get to his spots and there's like more changes in cadence, I prefer his mid range arsenal to Damar Dea Rosen's. I also will say that Kevin Durant is one of the greatest basketball players of all time, and he just has absurd handles. But what I will also say about Devin Booker is just like there's just something that not that I trust it more, but I guess there's more nuance to the way that he's getting to his mid range jumpers. And so if you were trying to wait difficulty with craft and like not having the same physical tools as being a seven footer who just rise up and fire over everybody, I really don't want to dilute with Kevin Durant. Does he is? The answer is Kevin Durant is the best mid range scorningly, but Devin Booker and me would be would be number two. And I get so much joy out of watching Devin Booker just carve up defenses from that in between range. Yeah, it's it's definitely Durant, and I would I was open to if you had a case for either of Derozen or Booker. And by the way, that is where the discussion ends. I think is those three guys. You know, I think what does it for me is so you said Durant, He's at fifty five percent on about seven mid Rangers a game. Derozen right under fifty percent on almost ten mid Rangers a game. So volume, I mean that matters if you're hitting a decent percentage. Bookers at forty seven percent on six point four, so he shoots the fewest generally speaking. The thing that just tips it to KD is if you're just using NBA dot COM's zone filters. There's also non restricted area paint shots, and Durant shoots sixty one point five percent on those shots shorter midrangers, which is insane. And he takes almost five of those a game, which is more than either of the other two. And like Derosen for examples, under forty percent on those shots, Bookers just under fifty percent. So Durant's like ten plus percent clear on the most volume on the they're still midrangers kind of they're kind of little flips in floaters, but that I'm counting that as kind of a mid range thing because like de Rosen gets to those like those are shots he likes to get to too. But I agree that Booker, there's something about like De Rosen's the real technician because he just you know, his footwork is incredible and he gets his back to the basket and he can turn either shoulder all that stuff. It's kind of more impressive than Durant in a way because Durant just can rise up and no one can contest it. But Booker, even as they were getting smoked by the MAVs last night and Booker was like the only guy that the whole Mavericks team was guarding, he still just has I don't know how you you have to qualify it because you cannot quantify it. He just has the ability to size up a defender from a dead stop and get to a spot like with maximum efficiency. And it's just like attacking the lead foot it's waiting for the guy to turn his head to look for a screen. He's just like he's really just has maximum focus at all times. And that's part of the reason that, you know, because he doesn't rise up really high or anything like that, and he's just pretty looking. Though he might have the prettiest looking jump shot in the league. I'm trying to think of Drozen might be there too, but he just, you know, he just has a true it's not a knack because I feel like it's a honed skill because he's so technically sound and such an opportunist and just exploits every so, like if Booker is your favorite mid range shooter, like, more power to you. But Durant, the percentages are just like we can't we can't hargue. So that's that's a pretty hot take. That's a good point on But yeah, it is just because Kevin Durant exists. It's probably too hot. But I think it's Devin Booker is so good. It's you made a good point on him. Though he has like the zero step speed. Yeah, because maybe it's because you like Demardo. I don't want to call them more of a slog when he's getting there because there's like a smoothness and a fluidity. There's more of an unpredictability what Devin Booker can do because he doesn't need the head of steam, like he can just be at a stand still and get going that way. And also I don't know if this is I don't know if you have a player who you think is the prettiest looking I'm shot. I'm wondering, like how much is this season? Am I just like traumatized from watching like campaign shooting in the corner where it's like his arm is like reaching into the stands before I finishes his motion. But I think he is just one of them when you look at freeze frames, like he has one of the prettiest looking jump shots in the NBA. I mean, for me, I think Clay still is just like it's a technically perfect shot. There's like no wasted energy anywhere. One of my favorite things is he had a couple of Clay was the only guy that played well for the Warriors last night. When he catches it high, like when he catches it at head level or above and doesn't dip it and it's just a wrist flick. That's like some of my favorite shots. And not a lot of guys do that with the high catch and just no dip and the balls out of your hands. I mean, Steph, I really you know Anthony Simons shoots a really pretty ball. It's a little different even Donovan Mitchell. I think Donovan Mitchell the ball comes out real feathery and it's like effortless elevation. I think that's I wish we'd focus more on some of the aesthetics sometimes, because that's really like what jumps out. I think a lot, you know, aside from the stats and who's good and who's not, just like the pure, you know, form of some guy's shots. I think, you know, that's kind of one of my low key favorite things to look at. Let's get to this one from It's Allan. I'm very interested to hear your thoughts on this hot or not the Hawks, excuse me, The Hawks and Grizzlies are quickly becoming the Dame Slash CJ Blazers of this era, meaning they all could have great regular season records, but in the playoffs they lack the top end talent to win a title. Younger teams such as the Pelicans and Cabs have already passed them up with higher upside in this regard, and will continue to widen the gap as time goes on. So this is a little too hot for me. Specifically with respect to the Grizzlies. I could. I think it might not be that hot of a take for the Hawks, but just to focus on the Grizzlies, I think the issue I'm having is that I think Jaw right now is pretty close to as good as Lillard has ever been. And I think a lot of and if you look at just like you know, their age, twenty four seasons, or because Lillard came into the league two years later, or if you look at their second season, or you know there's similar age or similar experienced season's, Jaw is basically better than Dame by most advanced metrics. You know, however you slice it, and you know Dame has had great years. But I don't know what you think about this. I feel like I feel like Dame kind of topped out as like maybe he's the eighth best player in the league or seventh or something like that. And I feel like Marant is that's kind of where he's living right now. You know, he's a top ten consideration. He's a fringe MVP guy last year. I think he's there this year, although he's cooled a little bit. So you have that, but you also have I think like Baane, for example, is just a much more sensible fit alongside him than McCollum ever was for Lillard because the skills set was so duplicative. And the other factor is the Grizzlies have defenders like Jaren Jackson Jr. Is a type of player that those Lillard teams just never ever had, And they have wings and they you know, Dylan Brooks, one of my least favorite players to watch play, is still the guy that you can throw at a big wing, and even Baine is a much more capable guy defensively. So I think the Grizzlies are just are honestly more well rounded and more complete and fit better than any of those Blazers teams really ever were. And I also think Jaw is probably about as good as Lillard ever was right now. So I could I take the point on the Hawks not too hot there, but man, like the Grizzlies like think of it this way, The best differential any of the Blazers teams had during the Dame eras like plus four point six, and the Grizzlies were plus six point two last year and you know, reached a conference semifinals and we're competitive, and yeah, I'm just Trey and the Hawks feel combustible. That Eastern Conference Finals run felt kind of phony now that yeah, so yes for the Hawks or not too hot the Hawks but a little hot on the Grizzlies. I think I would echo most of that. I think you're probably underselling Dame's peak and the fact that the Blazers, just like they wouldn't, the Grizzlies did something the Blazers never did undernel Sha and that was spending on a backup point guard with Thive Film, and so I think their depth has helped that out a ton. I don't know how to frame that around the Hawks, because like we're in year one of dejan Day, Murray and Trey Young, and there's probably been some organizational failures here. I don't think, you know, would you view Trey Young is that guy who's going to top out like Lillard did? Is no more than just in it and it's you know, not a singular season span. But maybe we're underselling Dame's peak. I think he was consistently in the top ten discussion, but it was never just like his Dame, a top five player. Trey is never really He's been like mentioned in cursory discussions about the MVP. We're also still just so early into these guys careers. I'm curious how much it matters. I would say, though it's not it's not too hot for the Hawks, I guess, but like, are the Hawks supposed to be on that level? I know Dejean ty Murray has been good for them in Trey struggled a lot this year, and there's the the maybe there's drama with him and Nate McMillan. We're not sure. They both sort of deny it, but I like I'm struggling to I say it's not too hot for the Hawks. I just don't know that it applies to the Hawks, is my point. If you want to look at their best players only going to lead them to really good regular seasons, I think maybe that could be fair. But like we've seen Trey lighted up in the playoffs, we saw Dame light it up like he's one entire series, by the way, but I would say my strongist take is that it's way too early for the Grizzlies. On that. I do think that they I don't know if it's a matter of consolidation, but like they need they probably maybe it is Desmond Baine, but like they need like a another they might I mean, Desmond Baine is just so good, so they might have in Desmond Baine, but they're deeper and I think that matters a ton too. I still think Jaren Jackson Junior's offense can be uneven and it feels like they do need that wing still. Maybe that's Zayre Williams. Maybe it's not. He's yet to play this season, so, but it's it's definitely way too hot for the grizz Yeah. I think just one last thing to add to that is the similarity between some of those or most of those Blazers teams, and like say, I mean it's kind of unfair because again, the samples so small in terms of how many seasons we have to look at, but their comparison with the Hawks also kind of aligns with these are one way operations, Like the best version of the Hawks are like a top three offense and it just you know, bottom five defense. That kind of that's really the Blazers group blueprint for like most of the last ten years. This year though, well yeah, that's the thing is like, well what are they I don't know, But the Grizzlies are not that team. The Grizzlies are are just gonna be a very good defense indefinitely, I think. So that's that's the other thing that kind of sets them apart. To me. This is from unbiased Pistons fan. Hot or not, Michael Porter Junior would go I love this one would go unprotected and unselected in an expansion draft. We're talking expansion drafts now. The contract plus health would be something Denver may want to redo on and other teams wouldn't be willing to start a franchise off with all this uncertainty and all the money that it costs for that uncertainty. That's not too hot. We got killed. I posted a clip of the Bruce Brown versus Michael Porter Junior discussion we had. There are a lot of people in discord who agreed with us, and there are people on YouTube who said Bruce Brown and no brainer. But we got killed for our take since then because Bruce Brown hasn't played well since we recorded that. But the contract and the back issues, and like the inconsistent defense where it's he could be a defensive playmaker, and people point out all the Nuggets defense is better with him on the floor, and it's like, all right, we'll look at what they're surrounding him with, where it's probably two of Aaron Gordon, Bruce Brown and KCP at all times. Like that's and Jamal Murray has always been, maybe not so much this season, a little bit more underrated defensively, so they've put him in positions to succeed, and then when you've pulled him out of those positions, it hasn't looked that great. And there's also the air of what would he be on offense without Yoki and Jamal Murray or even one of those guys there, or he's played without Jamal Murray at least partly, but without yokis there like can he handle more self creation? Can he set up teammates? And so you're looking at someone who is paid like a max player, and he is only in year one of that five year extension, so he has four years left, the final of which is non guaranteed, but it's still a pretty sizeable guarantee. It's twelve million right off the bat of forty point eight, so I mean it's like twenty five percent a little bit less twenty percent whatever it is. I would he be eligible in an expansion draft is actually might be the hotter take because I think the expectation would be he goes unselected, So why would we risk bad optics or bad juju behind the scenes with him. That might be the spicier take that the Nuggets would actually put him up because you are allowed to protect enough players to where if you don't protect Michael Porter Jr. It's glaringly obvious that you just wouldn't value him. Yeah, I think to me, really what the questions really asking is is he a negative value player on his contract? Right? Because what supposes is you're giving him, You're you're offering to give him away and no one will take it, which is like not just negative value, it's negative you know, negative value to twenty nine all twenty nine teams theoretically because the expansion you know, team is picking from the bottom of the barrel. That's a that's a little unfair. But so I think it's a little too hot. But like, just the talent is there. This is kind of just rehashing the Bruce Brown comparison, but like he's the guy's twenty four and he's shot forty two percent from three on good volume and it's all just health because like theoretically, let's say you're the we resuscitate the Bobcats or some team like that, and and you're saying they're they will not take him even with just the whatever the percentage chance is that he plays really well and you can trade him for something like I just I don't know I would if I'm an expansion team, I'm an take him money and health issues and all, just because that's not the type of player that's usually available in that situation that because of the upside, Usually you're just getting retreads and guys that that don't have that level of potential. So I think it's a little too hot. But like point taking, there is a real discussion to be had of whether he's just a straight up negative value asset. If there is an amnesty, would you use it on him? He's high on the list right, Like I don't know who, There's not a lot of other guys I think. I think if after this season we just were, you know, having health questions again, or you know, he didn't put up big numbers and didn't factor in the playoffs, then I would probably think about it that that's a man, such a tough one. This is also kind of a tough one, Rome eighty one eighty hot or not, Donovan Mitchell doesn't make the calf significantly better than what they would have been with internal development. Anyway. It's not that he's not a very good player, it's just that what they really needed to become a title team is a two way wing. That's the reason the Calves are seven point three points better with him off the court. And it's not just random statistical noise, or to phrase it another way, hot or not, the Cap should have waited for a more ideal trade than the Nonovan Mitchell acquisition. So I think a lot of there are a lot of good points here that I that I don't disagree with, because we've talked before several times about how yeah it is the two, it is the three. You know that that wing spot. You need someone who can guard, You need someone who can make catch and shoot threes. Like that's that is to me, the clearer need, or at least it seems that way. This also kind of presupposes that like that type of player is easy to get or would have become available, or that they could have traded for that guy. I don't know if that's true necessarily, so this is the point you make a lot too, I don't, so this is too hot for me. I'll circle back to that because I think you need multiple guys if you're gonna do anything serious in the playoffs that can find you a shot, or find themselves or find a teammate a shot. And Darius Garland can do that, Donovan Mitchell can do that. But that's kind of it unless unless and until Evan Mobile develops that skill set, which is asking a lot because in theory, this guy's going to anchor your defense also, and just there's a lot on his plate. So I think this second or you know, the one A one B thing with him in Garland is kind of a necessary component of whatever the optimal version of this CALVS team is. But it is it is true that like you got we talked about the Lillard McCollum Blazers, like that was a comparison a lot of people made when the Calves made this trade. Is now you got two small guards that are mostly defined by offense, and that kind of tilts the sort of I don't know, the strength and weakness things of your team pretty far in a certain direction. And so fortunately, and this is what we also said at the time, you have Evan mobiley and he's like you get out of jail free card because he can just plug all the holes if he develops a People think, so it's a little too hot, and some of that statistical stuff is noise, because I'm pretty sure that differentials down to minus two point nine now from seven point three, and it has not been that long since this question was asked. So it's too hot. But there's also a lot of sense in it in that you know, Mitchell is not the best possible guy to have gotten. I do think he's the best possible guy that they actually realistically could have gotten or could expect to get if they weren't going to just go with internal development. Yeah, and it's it's too hot for me. I would say it's fair because if you thought that wing player was going to become available via trade and that you could acquire him, then yeah, you would wait, but like there's danger in waiting when you think that you could be this good already. And I would also the only thing I would just add to what you said and you kind of touched upon it is it's not just that his on off differential has gotten even better. It's that it's bad for all of the top four guys right now. The Calves are better with all four of them not on the court. And I think a lot of that has to do with the stop and start nature of their season. Where Darius Garland missed time, then it's Jared Allen's missing time, and you've been you know now Dean Wade is missing time. And also, like you were, there's a game when they started Dean Wade and Lamar Stevens and you were going through, cycling through different options at the three, you tried out Karros Lavert there. That wasn't a lineup that made a ton of It didn't make a ton of when you were going from a talent perspective, it was, okay, Charros Leverts your best player, but like it always kind of just never made sense as a fit. And I think that coupled with okay, well then these guys are all still new to each other. I think we'll see this even out over time and the fact that you've been able to win like sort of the one guard minutes. That's exactly why you traded for Donovan Mitchell is because even if it's only Darius Garland carving up in the one guard minutes. You're still ensuring that you can have those minutes where or you can just basically delete all the minutes in which you don't have a star guard on the court, and so that I still would have made the deal. And I think because you have Donovan Mitchell, you don't need the superstar three. It's almost easier to plug this hole at the three then it would have been if you said, well we need a star wing. You don't need that anymore. You just need someone who be nice if they could shoot. But I think what you need more than anything is point of attack defense from that wing spot. And that's while that's still hard to fill in the wing spot, it's a lot easier to fill than saying we need to go trade for Jalen Brown right now or something, you know, someone along those lines. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Like the fungible, I need a guy that's going to shoot thirty seven percent from three and be like a plus defender at a wing spot, like you know, that's that's way below you know, the best wing there is, which is like you know, Jason Tatum or something like that, that's a totally different category. But like the fungible version of Donovan Mitchell or like the scoring combo guard is like way worse and you're just talking six man basically, you know at that point, So they did the hard thing. You know, they did the big thing first. They're working big to small like a star like the Darryl Moorey approach to roster building. Just get the star and you can go find the guy that's gonna make you know, a couple threes a game and guard like that's that you found someone who's okay working off the balls that you can test out stuff with Mobli And I just don't know. When you watch the final like the closing kick of this team last year, they needed literally everything Donovan Mitchell brings. And it's I'll just throw out a name here, but like, how much better do you feel about this team's playoff chats of just Josh Richardson's on the roster right now? I honestly like if they it fills a need for sure. And that's the other thing is like there's a lot of I mean, you could do better than that in theory, Like you know, there there's there's a lot of Josh Richardson types and you know, better versions, and they just don't have like the assets that would The argument is you getting the guy that you know, working big to small means you spent big and so your assets are kind of depleted to go do that. And no one's like being tricked into thinking Isaaca Coro is, oh, look at this like pleasant mystery box project now, like that ship is kind of seal. Yeah, we're the jury is the jury is in on. We've been doing a lot of backcourt talk, so I think this is a good one too. I'm curious what you think about this because I really kind of struggled. This is from Glad. The Clay Thompson and Steph backcourt is not a top five backcourt anymore. Wow, we should have skipped this, like we should have had me throw this at you. I think when you're doing these things, if like let's say Luca, let's use Lucatasha's an example, if you're considering him a point guard, like how much does the one player uplift the best backcourt? And I think that Steph, who is one of the top three MVP candidates in the league right now, one of the three best players in the league right now, he almost guarantees you top five entry. But when you start to go through the list of the dual pairings, where now you have Dejon Day, Mary and Trey Young, maybe Tray maybe Traymory May. Tray Young hasn't played well enough to ensure that it's a conversation, but you have we just talked about Donna, Mitchell, Darius Garland. They have to be up there. Like I guess the names that stand out like is Tyres Maxie and James Harden. There's Anthony Simons and Damian Lillard. There's Devin Booker and Chris Paul. But Chris Paul hasn't been healthy. There's to me. I think right now too much is up in the air to say that they wouldn't be a top five backcourt on the basis of Steph. I think I would still have them there, like if you're going for more of a balance, like you don't want that in balance between star and then like the first the best player in the backcourt and the second best player. There's a gap there, But that's also that would always exist because Steph is just like this mega human. John Morant, Desmond Baine, like, that's certainly a you know, the D'Angelo Russell and Anthy Edwards. They're not in that discussion this year, so I think there's I think they still are. You could make cases on paper for other entries, but I think the only ones that you look at this season and say, well they might have a case just because the balance would be Cleveland. I think Memphis with John Morant and Desmond Baine. And is that Like, I mean, Maxie and Hardon both missed so much time, and Harden didn't look great in his return, so I'm just like, who's the like, who's I'm sure I'm missing glaring ones here? You know that? So you're not a baseball guy, right, Like? No, so there. So the Bill James, you know, the kind of the godfather of like the saber metric movement in some regards, had this big abstract book and there was like he poses questions in it, and one of them was like, what's the what baseball family or what baseball brothers would you want? You know, well, Joe DiMaggio and Dom DiMaggio would be a good one, or like you know, the Conseco brothers or whatever. And He's like, I would take the Ruth family because you get Babe Ruth and who cares who the other guy is basically, so it's it's the same argument. We've thought about this exactly the same way. It's like, if I'm getting Steph, give me like whatever else I mean, and Clay is more than whatever else I mean. I think it's totally we talked about this last week. It's totally fair to say that, like, this guy is nowhere near the defender he was. He has a lot more nights where he looks real bad, which is just what happens when you age and have injuries. But he's still at thirty nine percent on ten three point attempts a game, So like, that's not nothing. I don't know how like, and in a playoff context, maybe that is on par with the value of someone like Bane or or Simons or something like that. It's not that far off. And Steph just makes the difference because you want the guy that you know is in if you're trying to win a championship, like this gets even easier because I don't know about almost any of these other guys, you know, other than like do Holiday in Middleton count Like I don't know, and how good is that if they're independent of be honest, those are those are second and third options now, like Steph is a one, you know with five stars after it. Like, so yeah, I think that's a little too hot. But the point, the point's fair. Like if you want balance, then yeah, I guess that's a different question. But if you just want to have the best backcourt, like you're not going to get me off of having Steph and at the top five, Like, that's that's not that tough for me. It's it's still not tough. It's of a sure thing that it was, and Steph is doing way more of the heavy lifting. Yeah, it's like it's like an eighty twenty situation if if that, you know, we have two that are related, So I'll sandwich them together for the Lakers, Christopher hot or not, Lebron James is no longer a top ten player in LA needs to realize this and then unbiased Pistons fan in a separate discussion and discord. In case you're wondering whether I participate in discord or moderate, it's trade Lebron and built around a deal clock. So the first part, Lebron James no longer a top ten player and Ella needs to realize this that's not hot. I mean, that's that's that's factual, I think. And I also think the second part is probably true. I feel like the Lakers know that, and I think even internally and James and others I feel like have eluded over the course of this partnership that, Yeah, like the idea here is that as Lebron sort of sunsets, Ad becomes a top five player and he's the guy that carries us, you know, in the post Lebron era or you know, the end of the Lebron era into the post Lebron era. That looks like a real, like you know, prescient approach. Now as Ad is like just rocketing up the MVP you know, conversation frequency. But I think it's trade Lebron and built around a d o'clock. They're not that's too hot because they're not going to trade Lebron. It's like a non starter. It's so traded till this summer. Yeah, if he asks to be traded, it's that's always been the case, right, If he asks, then you do it. And that's the only scenario I can imagine. I just wonder, like, I don't even I can't wrap my head around what the desired return package would be or the offers would be for Lebron just because Charlotte for all the picks, because they want the gate revenue. That's what trading to the Pelicans for all those picks back, and Dyson Daniels the Falcons are smarter than to do that. So so I got crushed, well insofar as I ever look at comments, But there was probably a few weeks ago before this AD explosion, and the Lakers were like two and ten or whatever they were, and I didn't think it was ridiculous to consider trading Davis because if you're trying to have like a functioning next five years, like that's the only way you get there, because he's the only guy you're going to get anything for. That's out the window now, So I think I think that's probably too hot to start talking about trading AD because he does look like a top five ish guy all of a sudden. Again, it's been against shitty teams, mostly like they got the Spurs three times in this crazy run, so we'll I think the schedule toughens up, so we'll really see if this AD thing is Oh wow, we could just put some average guys around him and suddenly we're real serious. But yeah, I think I think you're never trading Lebron, and I think trading Ad like that that ship sailed, I think probably in the Lakers' minds. And also I wouldn't trust you mentioned this. The sample size is so small and it was a great number two guy and even risky in that role. If I'm trading Lebron, I'm also trading Anthony Davis like I'm starting the whole thing over. I can't rebuild my team. That was the eventual goal, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that now because of his injury history. And I do think what we're seeing from him now more unsustainable jump shooting and him shooting what would be like by far and away a career high on unassisted field goal attempts. If he does this for the rest of the season, then maybe it's a discussion we have with the summer. But I think it's Lebron not being a top ten player, not too hot at all, Like like you said, maybe, and you know, if he like turns like in a playoffs, could he be like the could he be a top ten guy for any given stretch. For sure, I think he could still over the course of an entire season. Probably not, which is like kind of said to think about, but it was always inevitable. The AD rebuild around AD is too hot for me unless he again we're still talking this way in April that like AD has just been healthy and this is how he's playing. Yeah, so more guard stuff, which this is interesting. I'm glad you get this first, because I, like I struggled with it. This is from Straps. Three of the five best players coming out of the twenty twenty two draft class. So this most recent class going forward will be shooting guards. And I've posed my own question to you, Dan, what even is a shooting guard anymore? Right? I don't That's that's why I struggled with this one. I don't know. I think it's when I think of a shooting guard, I think it's of someone that you can't play at the one or up at the three, like a pure like it's a one position player, where a lot of people consider John Collins just a four or Davis Berton's is just a four, Like you can't play Das Barton's at center and hope to get away with that you're certainly not going to play him at the three and two guards. It's been increasingly hard to find, like someone who is just a two guard? So is Beal? Is brad Beal? Like the the quintessential shooting guard is that That's the first guy that comes to mind for me. Yeah, that's they might be him because Zach Quavine you can get away with at the three. So yeah, it might be a Bradley Beal and sobody healed, but he heals the two, buddy heals the two. U Now, Kevin Hurder could be a three and Sacramentos use him as a three At times, I'm trying to think of Evan Fournier. Yeah, it's a good one like that sort of ilk so but regardless, So the three of the five best players would be shooting guards in this So we're talking about who we're talking about Benn nick Mathren, who I don't think is do you consider him just like, oh, he can only play shooting guard. Oh it's so early, I don't know yet. I mean the way he attacks the basket like he does something, it's it's well also really wrapped into the question of position is like who do you guard that it's more like, who can you defend? And I don't know, Like I know nothing. I'll confess I don't know anything about Matherin's defense. I think he has the tools because he's athletic, and he seems he's smart offensively, like he has a lot of he's got real craft, but I don't know what that means defensively, So I mean maybe I would think of him first as a shooting guard, you know, don't you think like he's gotta be a two. My whole thing is just like who are the so like, who are the twos the straight twos are talking about. I'm assuming it's it's him. Would Shaden Sharp fall under that he feels kind of three ish to me? He's like a way I think right? And then aj Griffin he's kind of big two. I don't know. So I'm just trying. I'm trying to like this is just too hot because I can't figure out what positions we're talking about without the names. There's because Keegan Murray's not a two. The Dyson Daniels is definitely like, that's not someone that you would consider it too. And we have not seen enough of Johnny Davis to say like, oh, he needs to be in this discussion. It's I'm just I think it's math Rid and I would assume maybe I'm wrong, but like I'm assuming that Sharp has actually looped into this because I don't know who would be the like even just looking at like non point guards guards, like who would be the top three in this Yeah, but it's not like, you know, Jay and Ivy is a one, so you're gonna have Jay and Ivy there, Like if we're trying to find non point guards, who would be at the top end of this draft outcome because it's not Tari Eason, like it's he's just too big, Bennick Mathin. Oh, Jallen Williams, that's a good Jen Williams, but he's kind of he's kind of I would just call him a wing maybe maybe really if you frame it around like instead of shooting guard wings, then I could get on board. Although I think Holmegrin, who we've totally forgotten about as if we're projecting going forward, probably is you should you'd hope that he's going to be one of the five best players in this class. I don't know you have bank Caro Keegan Murray is is A three four, So you're really talking Mather and Ivy and Sharp. I think probably in that case, maybe I don't know Mather and not. Yeah, I mean I guess that if you want to frame it that way, it wouldn't be too hot. But I think it's just reiterates that Mathron's kind of ridiculous. Let's go to a next one is from where are we here? Oh? Okay, Rome eighty one eighty hot or not? The Hornets are the NBA's most depressing franchise. Not hot, not hot, because you just like, well, what are your other candidates and you can run down like I think it's the Knicks and the Hornets at this point, right, Well, but the Knicks at least, like the Knicks are better than the Hornets, So that's start there. That's less depressing. Have anyone on their roster who is as good or going to be as good as LaMelo Ball. No, No, that's depressing as shit because more is it more depressing? Though? If you're the Hornets and you've you just are counting the days till he signs his extension, which you will, and then the second he's allowed he's eligible, he'll just be like, get me out of here, Like that's that's because it's like the sort of the I think probably the Knicks are more dysfunctional, but I mean the weren't. It's just there's just nothing there. There's nothing there other than ball and and if you only care about the one piece, that's cool. But I think that one piece is probably a short timer unless something drastically changes. Uh. I mean it's like you look at the worst teams. It's like the Rockets, you know, have Green and KPJ and Smith and Sanoon. They're they're more depressing than they should be. They're well, they're just a mess. Like they I watched a lot of them against the Sixers last night, which and they won, but they play really hard. They're just super disorganized on offense, which is what happens when KPJ and Green are handling the ball most of the time. But like they're exciting and they get a ton of offensive rebounds and they draw a ton of fouls like they're the Spurs. Kelvin Johnson, Devon Bissell women Yama when he gets there, Like that's that's cool. You know. The Pistons have a bunch of young talent. The Thunder have a bunch of young talent. Brooklyn's kind of depressing just because it's Brooklyn's. Like, I don't know what the word would be, but to me, it's the Hornets that's not too hot, do you I mean, I know that I think that the Hornets true personally more so this is harder for you to answer, right, I was gonna say, I think there's a case to be made for the Knicks because they're just so aimless. But like there's if you put other people in charge of the organization, you could see the construct that they have now, even if it's not torn down, like, you could see it being used more sensibly. And they do have all those extra draft picks to go trade for a star if they actually want to, even though they clearly didn't with Donna Mitchell stuff. So it is the Hornets, but Kings are not involved in this anymore, And so I do think the Knicks would have to be too. I don't I don't have I think it's and after that, it's like, there's not a lot of franchises that depressed me. I'm so I'm high on a lot of their futures, Like the Lakers aren't like Mega depressing. If you have Anthony Davis there, the Timberwolves, like the Vibes, I mean, even as D'Angel Russell's played a little bit better, like the Vibes coming out there depressing. But when you're looking at the actual just directions, you know, the Mavericks would have a case if Luca Dants didn't exist. But that's a caveat. Yeah, I think there are teams that have like should we we should create an advanced metric like depression potential, like which the Mavericks might lead in. The Lakers have some of that. Basically any team that it's there's sort of like a self Yeah, there's there's a cliff looming and like they could go over it if a couple of times, but present present depression levels. I think probably Charlotte's got the get the inside track on that one. Is this me or you? This next one, I'll ask you this is from glad uh Hot or not? Dejante Murray should be the point guard that Atlanta builds around, talk around the league, says Tray, as in the leader, and again we've got this kind of hazy reports. I don't feel like I really know what happened with him and McMillan and the miss game the other day. But there's a miscommunication, that's all. It was a private matter of the miscommunication. Yeah, Tray miscommunicated with Lloyd Pierce alat too and then and we saw that, and players don't seem to want to play with him. This is this is Glad editorializing, not me, and he is selfishly unselfish, not unfair. Uh, not necessarily looking to trade Trey away, but if an offer comes, it's reasonable Atlanta should consider it or look to trade him for another super superstar. Cough KD cough. I just want to say before you answer this that I'm really mad at Glad because this was basically the hot or not I was gonna throw to you, which was going to be framed around like it's not crazy for Atlanta to consider moving young and just kind of seeing seeing, you know, seeing what might be out there, but just to avoid the luxury tax, because that's what the John Collins conversation has become. Right, Uh, this is too hot. I Dejean Day Murray has been better. I do think Trey is the young that's had to make more is the guy who's had to make more adjustments. Now is it fair to question his leadership and whether guys want to play with him. Is this style look he's and he has not been nearly as herlio centric this year as in previous years, But like does the style of a James Harden of a Luca Donchis? Does that grade on the players around him? But then how much of that is on the players and not like let's put in a coaching staff and infrastructure in place who could deviate. Again, I don't necessarily think Trey Young's play style has been the problem this year. I think it's more so been He's just not nearly as efficient as he normally is, and so does this suggest that he is like more of the awkward it's harder for him to fit into a larger ecosystem. I still think let's give it more time with Bogdanovitch back. This team really needs to open up the spacing in general. I don't think it helps that like you had like you just you sort of became not redundant, but you overlapped a lot, like too many of the same things with this roster where it's okay, we have Dejante Murray and Trey Young, which is fine, but we also have John Collins and Click Coopel, and only one of those guys could be used as a screener. And John Collins isn't going to get any real extra touches because now we have de John, Tay Murray, and Trey Young. So I think that this is a situation that would benefit more from shake ups on the margins. I'm not even talking about just it feels inevitable that Nick McMillan will be fired, but I'm not even talking about the coach. I'm just saying there needs to be a personnel shift here, and Bodonovitch's absence I do believe really was part of that. So let's give it some time there. But it's is way too Trey Young is just like he's an All NBA player, and so it's he and there's a better chance he makes more All NBA teams, like another all of me table moving forward, and it is that you get that from Bejanta Murray and so if and if like you might maybe need to flesh out your roster in the image of Murray more because he gives you, especially if he's not getting to the basket as much like there's a little bit more limitations on his game. But I can't diagnose what's wrong with Atlanta's offense other than like I think that there's not enough that the confines in which they work inside the half court, they just feel unnecessarily clumpy at points. I think if Trey is just making more shots or like hitting him career levels, like, how different is the conversation, you know, if the ball's going in like then I think things are a lot different. I think, so this is I agree, this is too hot, but it's only too hot because we don't we don't really we have like suspicions and you're seeing some illusions and from like Sam Amec and I think it was Jeff Schultz like kind of dragged Young a little bit. And it seems like a lot of the media that has had like interactions with Young kind of whenever a story like this comes out where it is kind of it's uncertain between player and coach and there was some kind of disagreement or miscommunication. Sometimes when the media kind of goes to bat for the reporters that are asking the tough questions of Young and sort of indirectly, are you know, kind of a lout? Like yeah, we all kind of know, right, the ones that know no, if you know, you know, like Trey Young might not be the best guy to be a leader or be around. I don't know that, and that's why I can't. This is too hot. But if that is in fact true, then yeah, maybe you don't build around him. But like just in terms of on the court, like Murray's a really good player, but he's not a build around guy. Young is like, you know, a hand one of what five guys that's like, if he's playing well, your offense is top five. Like that's just that's a that is a build around player, and you've got to do some finagling to really build well around him because he's small and doesn't defend and dominates the ball. But like that's that's doable. But if it's like a non starter personality wise, and you just everybody's sick of him and you can't nobody wants to play for him. If all that is true, which we don't know, then it's a conversation. But it's it's too hot as it is because just comparing players, it's like they're just totally different types of players. Murray and Young. Yeah, I think I need more evidence before I just go that route though, right me too? Can I throw this one at you? Was the one I came up with based off things I've seen or not. John Collins is now a salary dump and the inspiration for this. This is not my actual take. This is just I've seen the structure basically of deals that send him to Utah Jordan Clarkson and Kelly Olenick in a second round pick. I was listening to dunked On was talking about they backed off this. I want to make that clear, like they had said with Duncan Robinson and a first round pick, get you John Collins. And so John Collins is three years after this one, at about seventy eight million dollars left on his deal, injured. Right now, you should just fallen off a cliff. Touches it falling off a cliff? Is he more? Is John? Like? Is dumping like it's trading John Collins a salary dump move. But like, what can you expect realistically to get for John Collins? It's hard because I'm almost certain that he will be more valuable to whatever team acquires him than he is to the Hawks, just because of all the positional overlap he talked about. But that doesn't really matter as far as what the offers are going to be, because like Team X doesn't give a shit that you know, they know that they're not gonna, like, well, to be fair, since we know Collins isn't helping you that much, we're gonna like give you a we won't ask for you know, a lot of picking center or what. I just don't view Collins as a negative contract. I think he's a tough fit on the Hawks, so I can't it's a little too hot, Like I can't call him a salary dumb but the fact that they haven't moved him suggest that, like the offers are not good and and are a lot of value around the draft. Yeah, when he was readily available and they still didn't move him, I wouldn't know that there's a little too hot. But like, the longer this goes on, it may just be a fact that there are no you know, net neutral exchanges as possible or even because like you think of what he's been when he's been good, like we're not again you don't want to wait anything from that Eastern Conference Finals run too heavily. But he was a good defensive player and scored efficiently. And played really hard, Like he's been fine defensively this year too. Yeah, so the narrative that he's just like a four that can't guard anything is kind of that's done a little bit. I think that was fair early in his career. But I just I can't get there yet. But the market's gonna say what it says, and it may be talking a little bit right now. I think it's mega too hot because I actually think because John collins a skill set is so and I get made fun. I'm for saying this. It's so scalable. It's on the Hawks that they've failed to make it work where it's like he's just been so marginalized that someone who is mostly plugging play on offense. Yeah, he could shoot the ball better this season. That's been the thing that's playing me and ty roster. But like you've just beaten down his role to a point where like he's your like it's not your fourth option in the conventional sense, because Clinton Copel is not a number three, but based off who's gonna set a majority of the ball screens? And oh look on Yeko Congo was still on this roster and no now Bogdamdanovitch's back, So it's not like I think they could have gotten more creative with second units and how they used him before Bogdanovitch returned to give Collins more of a central role. I just would you give up? And I'll phrazee this way to me if they dump him, that's an issue Day created for themselves, not just with how they used him, but because they're being too fucking cheap because they gave DeAndre Hunter an extension they extended and click cappella, Trey Young's on his massive deal. They are thinking about Jean Tay Murray's next deal. You have to when you gave up as much as you did to get him, so I understand the realities of that. But if he becomes a salary dump to where you can't get him like actual value, you keep him because he is way more valuable than a salary dump. And if your salary jumping him, hey, guess what, You're not getting cap space and you're not getting the player that you need on this roster to address all your biggest things. So I'm at like, would you do this? Is not you know, like is like if if it takes a link and Clarkson to get him. I know Carkson's been good for you toah, but I'm doing that immediately. Yeah, I think I was just thinking this way. I don't know this could be a hot or not, like or maybe it's not a great one. But like if he's on the Mavericks instead of Christian Wood, they're kind of similar players offensively. There's no chance we're talking about why is John Collins still coming off the bench like he's starting. Christian would cost the first and like some salary, right, so that's not a dump. You know, the Pistons got the n't remember where where Christian Wood used to be. Wocket's got stuff for him and Collins. I think probably maybe that's a hot I don't know if it's a hot take, but John Collins is better than Christian Wood. Is that a hot take? I feel like it shouldn't be. It's not because he's better defensively, right, And like I think Christian would probably a cheaper number moving forward, and there might be more there's definitely more of a floor game, like a diverse offensive package for Christian Wood. But I still think John Collins is easier to fit and like he doesn't think Christian Wood is your four when you're playing with another big MAXI Kleiba. But so it's just like I would still have John Collins and just like, is this deal really that prohibitive it's like twenty percent of the salary cap moving forward? Is it really that prohibitive? And he's not, like, yep, no, I think we're really going to back for John Collins here because I saw and there was another theoretical trade package. I talked about this on the previous pod, and I don't put first of all, come up with the hypothecal trades is tough, but and I don't begrudge, like if that's the like the excuse me deal, Lyne Clark's instructure was floated basically by shams. So it's just like, I don't fault people for thinking this way. But one of the package I said was Buddy Healed Jalen Smith in a second for John Collins. And if that's first of all, you're not really saving money, like Buddy Heel comes off the books a couple of years earlier, but like and you're okay, you're getting Jalen Smith, who's super cheap the next couple of years. But if that's on the table, and you're Indiana like, why is that not done already? Like, Hey, we're keeping We're about to renegotiate an extend Miles Turner and we're just gonna make a run at this because we have John Collins, sorry's Alibert and Bennick Mathin and superstar Andrew I'm getting them hard. So it's just like I'm I'm just maybe we're wrong. I want to make that clear. I know that there are people who probably watch more Hawks games than us this season, but like, dating back to last season, he just feels like he is and it's verging on criminal, criminally underutilized. That's what it just feels like to me. Yeah, I mean, it's not a thousand years ago that, like I said, we saw him be a really useful player on a team that won multiple playoff rounds, like and he's not you know, he's not thirty two years old either. Yeah, it's ridiculous. But the thing that I will push back for the two of us on and you already mentioned it or we both whatever, the fact that he wasn't moved in an off season when he was just projected to be moved. The fact that he wasn't a part of the Jean de Murray trade, and the Spurs were like, oh, well, we'll prioritize picks and expiring salary. That makes me wonder if we're wrong. I think, to be clear, I think clearly we're I'm very impassionate about this. I think that we're right. But there's enough noise to where it's oh yeah, like if he was that valuable on the market, why hasn't even moved yet? I will still die in the hill off will There isn't a robust market for him. The Hawks have created that tepid market. Yeah, that's fair, that's fair. Let's see you're were good or want us want me to take us out? Or is there any other ones we didn't get to. No, we hit everything. We'll have the mail actual Well you did do one of the mail bad questions in the hot or not phrase from Rome. But that's good. But we'll have more. We'll have an actual mail bag again next week. But this was this was a fun, instructive exercise. Has always I enjoyed some of the ones that you came up with, and I enjoyed you becoming a New Orleans Pelicans convert mid podcast. It's it's done. I can't go back now. If they go on, like if they have a bad week, I'm gonna be real upset. Yeah, so everybody, thank you for listening. These are always fun. Thank you so much for these hot or notts. Uh, they're like we said last time we did this and with the mail back stuff. This is always awesome because it keeps us on our toes and we like making content that you guys want to you know, listen to and have discussed. So everybody wins that way, So keep them coming. We'll do these again. In the meantime. Tell all your friends and if you haven't done it yet, I don't know how you're listening to this, but like, subscribe, comment, do all the things you need to do, follow us on socials. They're on the If you're watching this on YouTube, you can see them on the bottom right, and thank you for listening. Listen. Next time we'll have some more o this stuff for you guys, and I'll take us out with an apology to Jared Allen maybe you should have. I already apologized to New Orleans Pelicans, and last but absolutely not least on behalf of Dan. We give a parting shout out to the man, the myth, the legend, mister Frank Millikino,