Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host. And this was a show that well, it almost didn't happen. It came real close up. We had a high winds up here in Maine on the coast, and I noticed in the middle of the night that when I got up that the power was out, and it was out all day. And then I got to notice m mid afternoon or so that your internet is out, you know, So I figured out, boy, this is going to be real close. So I drove around the town where I lived with my laptop, and I got I called this cafe. They were closing, but I said, hey, by the way, how's your internet working? Because I planned to do the show right outside of the cafe. So they said, everything's fine here, So they closed at two o'clock. I went over there at four o'clock and one thing they didn't tell me is they shut off their internet. So anyway, I raced home and lo and behold, the power came on and just like an hour and a half ago, the internet came back, and hooray, the show is on. The show must go on. So Robert Powell is our guest tonight. He's going to be talking about his new book, and it's called The Truth about UFOs. It's a scientific perspective, it's geared toward the young. We're going to discuss that, and we're also going to discuss kind of behind the scenes of the SCU, the Scientific Coalition for uapes. And because I think it's slowly kind of moving the dial toward disclosure. Possibly I almost hate using that word, but there seems to me that a lot of people are talking about some breaking news that's going to be coming out. I've heard, you know, I get contacted by people that James Fox is talking about twenty twenty one. There's going to be something happening. I'm not really sure. I know little tidbits. I don't think it's going to be something major and earth shattering. I don't want everyone to get their hopes up, because I've been at this long enough to see a lot of hopes get crushed when something looks really promising, and so I caution you to just keep in mind that whatever it is, it may not be such a big deal after all, whatever comes forward. If we keep that attitude, then we're going to be just fine. As far as Robert Powell, he has has biography, he's he has a BS and chemistry, and he's a former debater, so I'm not going to debate him at all tonight. He has twenty eight years experience in engineering management in the semi conductor field. He's also has some patents in nanotechnology, which I've that type of stuff. I love watching things on you know, documentaries and things about all that really fascinates me. Anyway, he's a great guest. He's got a great science background and someone that actually looks into this topic, which I really appreciate anyone that has, uh, you know, I want to say the guts, but more and more people are with a science background are looking into this topic because of the things that have moved the needle, and we'll be talking more about that. I want to thank everyone behind the scenes. Bill will be screening over at KGr A Radio tonight. I don't have the screen up. He's going to be taking the calls and it might be a little bit clunky, but we should be able to get it working tonight, and that's in the last half hour of the show that it will be taking calls. I want to thank everyone that listens to the show, and also I want to thank people that help out with the show. If you can't help out, I still appreciate you listening. And if you want to be a supporter for a couple of dollars or more a month, and there's also an option for one time yearly payments and that's at patreon dot com slash Martin Willis Podcast UFO. I wish you could be shorter than that, but that's the way it is. And we do have a blog this week from Charles Lyrics called Broadcasting from the UFO. Now, he always puts the title UFO in all of his titles, and that's my fault. I told him to do that because if I put something up on YouTube and it doesn't have the word UFO and the title for some reason, it doesn't get the downloads. It's kind of funny. But so he puts it the word UFO and all the titles. And this is basically about going back to the the WOW signal all the way from you know, alleged signals that were picked up by extraterrestrial and things like that. It's kind of an interesting blog. Check it out and I think that will do it for me for now. I am about ready to bring in my guest. Welcome to the show, Robert. Hi, Martin, it's good to be back again. Yeah. I'm trying to think it was like last year sometime you were on the show, I believe, right, Yeah, I think so. Yeah, you have written a book. You're always welcome on the show. By the way, I always I love you, haven't I love you on the show. And and I think one of the top shows that I have on you Tube as far as downloads is one with you in it talking about the Nimits case. Oh yeah, we we We did that show before the New York Times. It was like the weeks before, at least week I think it may have been a month before. Yeah, yeah, and uh and that was just perfect timing. So yeah, as a matter of fact, I have to give you credit, Martin, because it was because of your show that I found Kevin Day. That's right, Yes, the first guy. He was commented on the show and then you looked him up or something. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he was watching your show and that's how I found him. And I was already aware of the sailors in the USS Princeton, but because I had monitored the Princeton Facebook site. But I had not been able to get in touch with any of them until after I did your show. And there's one more witness that just came forward. See, a lot of people will complain, why do you talk about these old So I think that one's not really that old two thousand and fours and the scope of things is not not that long ago as far as sightings go. But I will tell you this that people are slowly still coming forward to this day. And someone recently, I think maybe two or three months ago. They're going to be on the show eventually, but came forward and yeah, what do you think about that? Do you do you think that more and more people will come forward or do you think that's going to be yet for a while. I think you'll probably slowly have more and more people come forward. The problem is, you know, once you get so much press like this, is they've heard other witnesses talk and so that that kind of shades their their testimony to a certain extent. Although you know, if they're coming forward just to confirm that something happened, then yeah, that's okay, but it's it's harder to use the details of their testimony if once they've heard other witnesses talk. I understand totally. Um, you know that happens, um, and other sightings too. You think of Rundelsham Forest, Um. You know there's some people that magically, all of a sudden put themselves there on the field. Um. And I get that. But I think that if you know, how do you vet someone like that? That must be really hard because you can't They could actually have been on the ship during that time and still know nothing. I mean, that's possible, right right, I mean because like, for example, I've got the log of the ship, so I know who all was on the ship, So they could have been on the ship. Yeah, and you can determine that. But it's it's just our memories are affected by what we hear, and so once she's it's it's best I mean, best case situation is you identify your witnesses and you interview them before they've talked to each other. Yeah. Yeah, And I don't know this later gentleman, Um, he has an unusual name. I just can't think of it right now that came forward. I think Dave Beatty has done a lot of the work with these people as far as you know, trying to get their story but but again, you know, I understand what you're saying. If you hear someone else's story, unless you have a whole different take, or you have something that you're corroborating, it's a tough one, right, Yeah, But still I think it's up. I have said this a number of times. I think it's one of the better cases that um in this topic. You know, i'd have to say it's up in the top five at least. Oh, I think so. I think it's it's it's in the top five cases history on this subject. Yeah, and and you probably agree with me. It's because of first of all, it's military, and then all the backup, you know, the radar and the two different types of radar, and then the FLR f LR video and supposedly high quality digital video that I would love to see along with a million other people. Yeah, right, Yeah, you think that you think there'll ever be a day that that type of video would be released? Yeah, that's an excellent question. I mean, personally, I don't see any national security issue involved in it, so I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be released, the same thing with the radar data. I mean, you can't release the nitty gritty details of the radar data because that, you know, that could provides national security issues, right, because an adversary could figure out what our radars capability is, even though this is you know, fifteen sixteen years ago. Yeah, but there's nothing about the radar data that compromises national security. If the question is how fast did the object go? Right, yea, how fast did it accelerate? Those facts could be released by the military and those I see no reason why that should compromise national security. And if they already have footage out albeit it's very short. I don't know how many seconds it is, but it's not very long. And I also understand that was also shortened because of what you just mentioned, you know, classified information. Could you know they could somehow figure out how to get I'm not sure what it was, but I heard Lou Alzando kind of explain why they made the videos short, and it was really to curb any information getting up out there, so like like you're talking about, But I don't know why that would be, why the videos would have to be short, What what difference that would make, unless it's some type of readings up on the screen or something like that. Yeah, I have no idea why that particular one needed to be short. I can't say I'm sure that it's it's a longer video. Not only had different individuals testified to that, but the lieutenant commander who was there with Fraber, and that was Lieutenant Commander James Slight. He had a very good point and he said, the way that's done its wheels up videos on. He said, you don't go into a situation and way to turn on the video at the last moment. You just turn on the video when you leave the as you're leaving the ship, and it stays on. So there's no reason why there wouldn't be more video than what's seen. Yeah, yeah, well it'll it'll be interesting if anything else comes out, you know, as far as as far as that goes, I really don't understand if they've already leaked or however that other video got out there. What it can't be more earth shattering, you know, maybe maybe it would be you could actually see a very clear object doing weird things, you know, maybe that's what they're the hesitation is. I don't know, you know, just another thing. You know, as we have said over the years that you know, the air Force is probably not going to disclose that they don't have any control over whatever it is that's in our skies, right, Yeah, that's a tough thing to admit. Yeah yeah, Um, well isn't this interesting? Well I want to hear about your your book and what was the genesis of writing that book? Okay, so, uh, you know, the first book that we wrote was UFOs and Government, and that book was really directed towards the academic world, so university students. It's like five hundred pages and has a thousand references throughout the book. But this book, and I've got it here just so your viewers can see it. So that's kind of what the book. This is a hard back cover of the book. It's kind of what it looks looks like on the inside, you know. It's uh, it's got more photos than that though. You know, we've got various photographs because kids like pictures, right, yes, exactly. U. This book was geared towards ages seven to twelve, and so there's a little story on what caused me to write it, because it's not like I decided a year ago, Okay, I need I want to write a book for kids. I've got three grandkids and one of them who's seven years old, he's the middle one. I was taking care of them back in January this year, before all this COVID stuff started. And so it is, they all know that their grandfather, you know, has an interest in UFOs, and all the all of them are kind of science minded. And so the middle one, he had checked out a book on UFOs from his library, and I guess he wanted to learn about it. So I grabbed, you know, picked up the book and I looked at it and it just was not an appropriate book for little kids. Not only did I not agree with the information that was in the book, but it had all these gray aliens and stories that would just frighten a kid to death. So I told him, I said, his name's Gavin. So I said, Gavin, just take this book back to the library. Do not read this book. And I said, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll write you a book about UFOs. And so I promised him I would do that, and so I decided, okay, So the older grand child is nine, so I said, let me write something and for that age group, and and for kids that are kind of science minded. To start with, you know, at that age, kids don't really know if they're going to like science or not like science. But that's when curiosity starts to kick in. And so I wanted to write a book that is more than just about UFOs. It kind of teaches them a little bit about critical thinking, how to see the world. It kind of shows them that things aren't black and white, that really the world is shades of gray, and that that that's how you need to approach things in life. So that's kind of what got me started on writing the book. So I started on it in probably in March, and I completed the full book by September, and then I published it about one week ago. So it's just been published. Oh wow, now you know you mentioned the pictures? What else? You know? As as you know, everyone has a shorter attention span, especially with all the information, and I blame it on you know, technology and information just coming at you in every which way. How do you hold the reader? Yeah, and at age of seven to twelve? Is that right? Yeah? Yeah, this is age seven to twelve. And you've got a good point, Martin, I mean, technolog apply his I mean the average adult on YouTube watches a YouTube video for an average of one and a half minutes and then they're gone. You know. Yeah, so and kids have even shorter attention spans, right, So I wrote the book to like, For example, I've got about a dozen different really interesting cases, but I don't you know, I don't do pages and pages of these cases. I keep each case to three to five pages, throwing pictures whenever I can, and I try to make it interesting to a kid. So I'll say, okay, this happened, and then I'll ask them a question, so why do you think that happened? Or does it make sense that this happened? Or go ask your parents about such and such and see what they think. So I'm trying to get the child to you know, interact with the book as well as you know, his surroundings. So that's kind of why how I wrote it to keep it at that age level. And um, do you think there's going to be any Um? I don't want to say backlash, but you know, if if a parent picked this up and looked at it, would you know, would they say to the kid do you think the title of the book helps that? So the parent wouldn't say, hey, you know, this is what are you reading this silly stuff for you know, you talk about the scientific perspective. I think if the if the parent, uh any parent, right or to read the book, I think they would find it interesting. Although it is written for a seven to twelve year old age group. But there's there's no strong conclusions drawn in the book, right. It just lays out, here's what happened, and then it asks the kid, you know, what do you think? And it doesn't say here's the ants or there's the answer. It just it asked them to use their own, you know, thinking process. I'll give you an example. So one of the cases I used was Mcmonville, Oregon. Right, So that's a you could write pages on that, but it's only about forty five pages. And for example, I don't mention this city. I mean, what eight or nine year old cares at the name of the city was mcmonville. Plus it happened in rural area anyways. So but I did. I start off and I just tell the story, here's what happened, and here's the pictures, and they can look at the pictures, and then I have a photograph of the camera that was used, and then I tell them I do these little sidebars, you know where I'll say, back then, there's no such thing as a digital camera. These things had something called film. And then I say, go to your parents or grandparents and ask them about hammers with film, right, because those are the things that it's interesting for a kid to learn. It exposes them to the past and how you know history was, and so at the like at the end of the book, I discussed that some people feel that maybe the trends who were the family that took the photographs, that perhaps they hoaxed them, right, And I also mentioned that as far as we know, the community around them said they weren't those they weren't that type of individual. So then I just asked the kid in the book, I said, so, what do you think did do you think they made it up? And I conclude it by saying, to this day, and I'm you know, we can argue both sides of this question, but to this day, we really don't know absolutely if those are real photos or not. So you know, it's it's just, uh, I lay out the facts. I don't really try to persuade, you know, the child one way or another. I've had discussions with Mark D'Antonio about that you know those pictures and he he doesn't think they're right, and I don't. This is one time a lot of times I will agree with with Mark, but I didn't agree with him on why he didn't think they were right. And I because I've looked. Really, I mean, maybe he has something. He can look much closer than I could, but he thinks he can see this the a hint of a line or like a fishing line or something. Yeah, I don't see that. I don't see that at all. And as a matter of fact, a French group of Francois Luange who I know, will um They actually use computers to do it, and they they they can't see a vision elite, but they feel like that statistically they could establish that it's a line there. But then Brad Sparks. I don't know if you know Brad, but he's an aeronautical engineer out in California. He's gone through Lane's report and says, now here's all the mistakes and he lays them out. So I think it's still up in the air. Yeah about it. Yeah, here's a question that came in. Do you think a curriculum can be made around the book's core this is your book of course, Yes, I think you could make a curriculum around it. I mean, if I was going to teach a group of kids about it, what I would do is I would lay out a case, you know, that occurred, and then I would have the kids start. I would just line up, Okay, what's the positives and the negatives, what are the reasons this may not be true, and what are the reasons that is true? And have them list that right and then have them discuss it. I think it's it's an excellent tool. I think the whole uf phote topic is an excellent tool for kids to use and learn how to use critical thinking on both sides of it, Right, you don't want, on the one hand, to just accept everything. On the other hand, you don't want to automatically reject everything. Right. You know, I wasn't even into UFOs when I was a little kid, And I can tell you that I would have been into that type of situation, you know, where where you can look into it and then you have like a debate about what it could be or something like that. I would have been very interested. And you know, I was like science e type things, and I definitely would have been interested in that. What are some of the other cases you talk about in the book. One of the other cases I talk about, there was a case in twenty thirteen and on Areo, Canada that involved a scientist who actually I've met the guy in person. He has an R and D lab and he has contracts with the Department of Defense, so he's remained anonymous all these years. But he and two other guys were out hunting in Ontario. Is it this one right here? Right? Yes, it's that case right there. Yeah, why don't we go into that. I appreciate your bringing this up as part of the but can we go into deep details about this case? Because I find it totally fascinated it is. It's a very fascinating case. So yeah, we could go into deep detail. But before I do it, here's why I picked certain cases because I thought they would they had good components that were good for young kids. Right, So there are no abduction stories in this book. Just let everybody can sleep. Yeah, but what was nice about this case is we've got some interesting drawings that have been made so that you've got pictures for these kids. The key witness as a scientist, I think that's a valuable thing for you know, kids to know that scientists have also observed these type of objects. And then there's also electromagnetic effects that happened during this, So I think it's good for the kids to think, Okay, electromagnetic effects, what is that? What are examples of electromagnetism, you know those kind of things. And then lastly, in this incident, there's a time when they take out he takes out his gun and he's got a scope on it, and the main witness, who's a scientist, he's not taking out the gun to shoot the object. He's taking it out because he wants to. He's got a nine x lens on it, so he's trying to get a closer up to look at the object. Well, a couple of his his two buddies, they say shoot it, right, which he doesn't. So I thought that's an interesting thing, you know, for kids to contemplate, right, is that a smart thing to do? Why should you do that? Or why should you not do that? Right? It's also you know, to get their creative juices going. But to go back to the case, the first time I ever heard about this case was in two thousand and fifteen, and at that time I was part of Mouthon and Phil Leach actually found the case. Phil is a retired police investigator in Indiana, and so he wound up being the guy assigned the case. And when when Phil first got the case, he contacted me because he after he talked to the witness, he felt like he needed some support on the case. So I gave him, you know, support, and he explained the case to me, and the first thing to me was wow, is this really true? Right? And so I was like, Okay, I'm I want to come up and meet the guy because I wanted to verify this guy is who he says he is. And so I verified that he is a scientist. He does have d D contracts, he does have an R and D lab, he does have engineers to work for him. So this guy, and he's got plenty of money. This guy has no motivation to make up a UFO story, right, There's just no motivation for it. And he's never made he's never reported one other than this instant. So I went and met with him. I was impressed by him. He has a number of patents and that's so that's what got me started in in doing the investigation. Now the guy the primary witness. He actually wrote about a forty page white paper on what happened. Really, yeah, sou And it's such a long case, Martin, I'm not even sure where to start. I mean, i can just tell your viewers basically what happened, I guess. Sure. So you've got these three guys are up in the wilderness of Ontario. I mean the nearest town was probably twenty miles away. They're in the wilderness that there is no cell phone coverage that tells you how far away they are from sibyl As. So they're out and they're hunting black bear. So that's that's why they're there. So he uses his sony video recorder to a video the black you know, these black bears that they had shot, etc. And then they put the bears in their trunk in their truck. They've got a large Dodge truck and they're driving to meet another party of hunters. They're out there with them. There's about six guys total, so on the way to their destination. The sitting in the back seat by himself in the truck is the primary witness. The guy who's also a scientist, and his two friends are in the driver's side passenger side. He notices something kind of out on the right hand side of the truck and he looks over there and he sees a bright, a very bright light, and his first thought was, Okay, it's nine thirty at night. I'm in the middle of nowhere. What is a helicopter doing? And why is it approaching us? Right? I mean, if you put yourself in his place, that's not a comfortable feeling, because you're wondering what the heck a helicopter doing out here in the middle of nowhere. Right. So they're continue but he doesn't say anything. He's just made mental note. They're going down the road. The light keeps getting closer and closer and brighter until it crosses in front of them, and at that point in time it's clear to him this is not a helicopter. And so the driver stops the truck. So the truck stops, and they're looking at an object the shape of a barbell. It's like one disc here, another disk here, and you've got a bar connecting the two discs. I mean, that's his non aerodynamic of an object as I can imagine you could create. Yeah, and so he's looking at this object and he notices it's got a purple haze all around it, so he feels like it's a plasma encircling the object. The distance he estimates about four hundred feet because there's there's trees everywhere, and it's based on where it's sad. He knows that it's in the tree line, so we know that it's so he knows that he gets out as first. The first thing he does is he takes out his sony camera. In his camera, as soon as he turns it on, it's on for half a second and then it clicks off. He does it again the same thing. Then he grabbed his cell phone, Motorola cell phone, see if he can take an image of the cell phone. But when he grabs his cell phone, it's like hot as if it was and it's acting as if it's just now booting up, so his cell phone is not operating. Then they have a Motorola radio which they also grab because they want to talk to the other group that's out there somewhere. Well, the Motorola radio phone is dead, so at that point in time, he says, well, okay, I've got my rifle gunsight and I'll use that to at least look at the object closer. So he gets it out and that's when you know, his friends tell him to shoot and he says, no, we're not going to shoot it, and he starts making detailed notes. And this guy makes extremely decal notes in the paper that he sent me, and I actually, just to be safe, I redid his calculations on the size of the object independent of the way he calculated it, and I came out with the same number he did, approximately one hundred and fifty feet plus or minus ten or fifteen feet. So this was a very large object. The other interesting thing about the whole sighting is that there are like sparklers being emitted from the object. But the sparklers don't come out of a certain end of the object like they do in a jet right where you have you have your exhaust fumes coming out of the jet engine. Instead, the sparklers come out of what the opposite direction of wherever the object's moving. And this if you can imagine, Okay, here is a barbell and as it moves, it's slowly rotating. So your barbell's slowly rotating as it moves, right, I mean, this is just about as crazy as you can get in terms of a strange story. So it's at the point of this guy either made this up or it happened. I don't see how you go anywhere in between. And that's why I went up to visit him to verify all this. So as this object's turning, the sparklers always come out of the opposite direction as it moved, that of where it's moving towards, So that's you know, the object. This continues until the object moves out out of sight, and then it goes higher up in the sky and disappears at a high rate of speed. That's kind of the end of the of the story. They always seem to disappear at a high rate of speed, don't they. Yeah, so many. Yeah. Now, one thing he did do is once the object got farther away, he tried to reuse his video camera, and once it got I think he said about somewhere around twelve hundred and fifteen hundred feet distance, which is about a quarter mile, his video camera came on and he was able to video, but he was not getting any He only got audio. The video screen was noise, and I when I went to his place of business. We actually hooked up his camera to a soul scope and you could see, you know, the red, green, blue color formations that should have been into the video camera, but nothing was there because we could see it when he had photographed the black bears. But you could hear you could hear him talking with the other witnesses. And so he still has the original camera. He's got it locked in the safe and he's still working on it. You know, he hopes to figure something out. Now, that's funny how it's almost like an intentional a malfunction, you know, it just seems like that he I mean, he had a good he has a good theory on it, which I would kind of I think, a reasonable, you know theory. What he believes is in the beginning, he was so close to it. Since there's a plasma, you know, he sees this plasma that's all around the object. He suspects that it's emitting an em field that's so strong that's interfering with his camera. It's probably like inducing a current into the camera, and the camera probably turns itself off to prevent damage to itself. Right, there's probably a safety mechanism in the camera. Once the object gets farther away, right, your e M fields drop off by the inverse square law. So it gets far enough away, the field's going to get weaker, and so he's able to turn his camera off on. So the camera's mechanism to keep you know, an overloading currents working, but there's still enough current being generated in the camera that's interfering with the video system. That was his theory. Wow, which coms reasonable. I'm popping this up image up. This was similar to what someone called a barbell type UFO, which was a real bizarre sighting. I think it was in the nineteen eighties this happened. But also someone commented that Don Eckers show here right here, they're saying that one of the regular colin friends of Don Eckers says he has seen a dog bone shaped craft, which I would think, is, you know, similar to barbell. Yeah, it's sometimes I'll call it a dumbbell, a barbell or a dogbone. And and actually I found it so interesting, right because myself personally, until that time, I'd never heard of a barbell, dogbone, dumbbell shape UFO. But that got me interested, so I went and started researching looking for those specifically and I've found since back, going back into the nineteen fifties, about somewhere around thirty to forty cases reported of that type of shape. And the thing that's interesting about that to me, Martin is right, some people like on UF on the flying Saucer disc, they say, well, that's just people lay bread about it in the news, so they're just kind of repeating what they've heard, and it's their imagination running away with them. But here you've got a very strange shape which has not received a lot of publicity, and yet you've got thirty to forty cases reported of it over the last fifty to sixty years. Yeah. Yeah, And you know when when someone um talks about a lot of tumpable sometimes the subject will come up. You know, why do you think? You know, during this time there were mostly disk sightings and now there's uh, you know, triangular sightings or or and now you put in something like this or the orbs or you know, there's all all the different types of things, and you know, then there's the real unusual ones also the square box type ones or or rectangular ones that nothing seems except for the discs and triangles, nothing seems to make sense. As far as aerodynamics, but you know, if you're traveling through space, I guess that's not needed if that's where they're traveling from. Well, even the discs in the triangles are not always in some of the good reports are not always aerodynamic. And there have been uh several Project Bluebook where military pilots uh talked about a disk that what you know, it was traveling aerodynamic and then it flipped up ninety degrees on the side and it's just traveling with maximum air resistance right the flat side going forward. Yeah. Uh. And then triangles. One of my favorite cases happened up in your area in Maine. Um. And it was a triangle that before it took off, it just started spinning. That's why would you do that, Like they're throwing a horseshoe spinning? Yeah, yeah, exactly Yeah. Strange. Wow, so up in me and I never heard of that one in particular. Yeah, that one happened. Uh it's either twenty thirteen or two thousand and fifteen, and it was in Augusta. Oh yeah, you're cats an hour away from me. Yeah. Yeah, And uh it was witnessed by a man who had a PhD or has a PhD In mathematics and he was with his wife, three kids, and his wife was driving and they were headed north I think it's out of Augusta. And as they were headed north they saw this triangular object kind of like a pyramid and that you know, it had the typical three white lights on the corners and the object. Um they had to keep They were wanting to turn around, but they had to go about a mile two miles up and so they finally did. They turn around and the objects still there, and then they see it moving and as it starts to move, it begins to rotate, and right before it rotates, you know, the red light on the bottom comes on and then it just zips off and is gone in like two seconds. So bizarre, and a lot of them have the lights. This is another case right here. Um it's not really a very good picture, but you can see this as the polaroid that was taken in Australia there Burman or something case I forget h that was in James Fox video of his documentary. But that's another one that went up on its side and just took off, you know, at a high rate of speed. As as as they always seem to do and yeah, no, it's just it's just crazy, you know, because it's like there's one that this was I believe this was out of blue book. Also, it was a officer in Germany and he was on wasn't an officer, it's like a sergeant. He was on duty, on power duty, and this triangle is coming towards him, and then it just starts like flipping over. Is it's moving through the sky any of the first thing you ask is like, Okay, if you're making this up, why would you why would you make that? That is so crazy? Yea, So it makes you think, you know, either someone's making it up or it's real. I just I can't imagine what type of astronomical body or aircraft or whatever would make someone think that they were looking at a triangle that began to flip over. Well, I guess it goes back to so many mysteries about this in the way of you know, there's never the breaking of a sound barrier when something shoots off real quickly, or when they pass between different mediums like water and sky, you know, things like that. Yeah, all these things that don't make any sense. And if if there's no broken sound barrier at high rates of you know, well over the speed of sound. There, they have a way of traveling. Obviously that is not going to affect the physics as we know it. I guess, well, I mean it may still be physics as we know it. But however they're doing it, they don't appear to be interacting with the atmosphere, right, because our understanding of physics, if you're moving through the atmosphere at an extreme rate of speed, there's going to be a high amount of friction in him and rate it. And some of these objects they're moving so fast that they should be a ball of fire, especially when you're in the lower atmosphere. Yet they're not. So going back to the physics, they can't they can't be in the atmosphere really, right, This is a better picture of what I was talking about earlier. Oh yeah, that is better. Yeah, So I think gravity plays a part in that too, possibly, you know, I mean, defying gravity in a way. There just seems to be a lot of a lot of things that kind of all fit together. Yeah. Well, now I'm not a physicist, I'm a chemist, but I don't think anti gravity is the answer on any of this, because for example, when we're in when you're in outer space, right, you just took a Saturn Moon rocket and just stuck it up in space magically, and there's no gravity there, right. You can't get extreme accelerations just because there's no gravity. You still have the inertia that you have to overcome of the object itself. So how that's done, I have no idea. But eliminating gravity does not allow you to rapidly accelerate, and some people will kind of try to indicate that, but to my knowledge that's not the case at all. The only way I could think that you could rapidly accelerate is somehow you have to drive the inertia of the object in question towards zero. Right. So for example, if you took a spaceship and if it weighed nothing, I'm just just imagine you could make it weigh nothing. Well, now I could shine a beam of light on it, right, and if the masses is basically zero, the photons and a beam of light will impart their speed and energy to that object, and sudden lab will accelerate it very close to the speed of light. And that's kind of what these things do. They're accelerating extreme speed. So I don't know how you do that. That's a pure gas on my part, But I don't think anti gravity does that. Yeah. Yeah, I've always wondered, you know, I don't want to really get off on a whole different topic, but I've always wondered how space travel happens in space, Like, if space is empty, how does it propel itself like a rock or propel itself through space? If there's if it's empty, you know, was it pushing against Well? Yeah, you know that's a Newton's law. If if here's my rocket and I'm kicking out propellant at this end, then this side is going to go in the opposite direction. The whole problem in a chemical rocket is you cannot go in this direction any faster than you're kicking stuff out in that direction. Right, So if the maximum speed you can kick out this exhaust is two hundred, let's just say about I don't know the actual number a physicist could tell you, but let's just say it's about fifty thousand miles an hour. Well, you'll never accelerate your rocket ship beyond fifty thousand miles an hour. Yeah, I can understand how that makes sense, right, The way we've done that on some craft and it takes a very long time, is they use an ion engine. So it's kicking out ions and they're traveling it close to light speed. But it's just a few atoms, right, it's I mean, it's not a whole lot of atoms. And you've got this mass. See here's where inertia comes into play. So you're having to shove this mass through space and given enough time, right, it'll keep getting a little faster, a little faster, and it will finally get at the same speed. The ions are kicking out the back end. But imagine if if your ion ship there, right, imagine if the front of it had zero mass. Well, now, as these ions kick out the back end, he's going to move forward very quickly, approaching speed of the speed of light. Here's a real time or real life example. I guess you might see. There's a breakthrough project. It's called oh gosh, you can't remember the exact name of it. But the basic idea, here's the whole idea, is to get a very small rocket or a very small object to Alpha Centauri in twenty years, so it would be moving at twenty percent the speed of light, and the way they do that, it's rather than have a big spaceship, they're basically propelling a computer chip, which you're talking about something that only weighs a am. So the laser thing, right, the ass is very low, and you put this giant sail connected to this little computer chip in essence, and when the lasers hit that sail, right, the laser light is moving at the speed of light, and normally that doesn't really move anything, right, But because this chip is so light and the sail is like a hundred and nanimeters in thickness, it's actually able to shove that little chip to twenty percent of the speed of light, and I believe in eleven minutes. So that's a huge acceleration. Yeah, but again that kind of goes back to the thing of you have to reduce the mass in order to be able to do these types of rapid acceleration. Yeah. I know this show isn't just about I feel like I want to keep asking questions on this, like what is the difference between masks and gravity, you know, or weight or weight and mass. But I think we probably ought to move on because and talk about that off air. We got about three minutes before we go into a break. Um, and so let's just wrap up about talking about some other cases that you have in this book. How many chapters did you say there were, Well, I do about eleven or twelve cases and then and each one's a chapter. Each one is like three to five pages. Yeah huh. And so I don't break them into individual chapters. They're just kind of continuous. But I've got little markers, you know, as you go through some of the like the Japanese Airline case. Oh yeah, j I catch on that al something Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I do that case. Um, the four um, oh, what were the the National guardsmen up in Ohio that we're in a helicopter when they run into a large cigar shaped ufo. Why don't we talk about that when we have, like I said, we got we got a couple of minutes because I'm not I can't picture of what that one is. Oh okay, this one. You know probably if I mentioned the guys their name to you, then you may remember that case. But it's, um, there's four National guardsmen and they're they're taking a helicopter back and they see this light very far off within just a few seconds the light is suddenly right in front of them, and the captain who's flying the who's he's not, he's the copilot of the helicopter. He takes the controls away from the co pilot because he's decided that there's an aircraft that's going to hit them head on. This isn't the coin cases? The coin case, okay, And so that's the name I couldn't recall. And so you know, he he dives as fast as can an helicopter, which is, you know, you can only do so much an helicopter, and all of a sudden it's objects in front of them, and it bathes their helicopter in a green light and the windshield of the helicopter that's all they see is the object. I mean, it's it's filled up their entire windshield. So this thing is close and it's large. Let me turn this thing off so it doesn't ring. I just think that's a very interesting case that kids would kind of enjoy because you know, you've got good witnesses and it's it's so close to them, right. Imagine an object so large that it fills up your entire windshield. Wow, yeah, I mean, how do you misinterpret that some people said, Oh, they misinterpreted they were looking at Venus. Well no, I don't think so. So you know, either either those guys are idiots or or there was something filling up the full windshield. That's right, And it's always poor Venus. Venus always gets blamed. Yeah, I mean it even got blamed for having phosphine on it not long ago. So now that's right, that's right, all right, all right everyone, So we're gonna be right back right after the break, Carey and I'm gonna play since I've mentioned his name a number of times, I'm gonna play James Fox for you people over at YouTube. So hang in everyone, We'll be right back right after these messages. I knew this was breaking news for the front page of the New York Times. Oh my gosh. We need to accept that we are now alone in the universe. The federal government all these years has covered up everything. It's very, very bad for our country. There have been the visitation crash craft material recovery. It is not anything from this earth. All I could do is keep a mouth shrug. The public has a right to know. There's a tremendous resistance. I guarantee every one of them knows that this event happens. Hiding these dark secrets even from elected presidents. Day came running up. Yet in such a kind of child can make it up. Declassified government documents confirm ongoing UFO incursions at nuclear weapons sites. Are you saying that there's some evidence that still hasn't seen the light of day. I'm saying most of it haven't seen the light of day. These things are real, they're here, this is happening now. Yes, that video is available to stream, and I think it's FEMO is where you want to get it. If you want to get the extras with it, it's still available out there. I highly recommend it. It's a great, great movie. Some people have said, well, there's nothing new in it, but I there's actually quite a few different things that I've learned. Might as well talk a little more during the break here for YouTube. Next week we have Melanie kirk Doorfer and she'll be on. She was the one at that Berkshire's UFO. So the woman who was a young girl by the lake getting ice cream and all of a sudden she vanished with her sister. I believe from the car. She's got a great story I talked to her on the phone the other day. All right, welcome back to the show. I'm Martin Willish. You're your host, and coming right back we have Robert Powell. Welcome back, Robert. I'm Martin. Yeah. Interesting that the coin case. I always thought that was such a fascinating case. And I remember my friend Lee s Bagel interviewed him on his He's got an album, his record album from nineteen seventy seven or something like that. We actually personally interviewed him about that case. And you know, I mean, that's horrific to have something like that happened. You must think that's the end. I mean, what else can you think in a case like that? Yeah, I think I consider that one of the top team cases. Also. Yeah, and what was didn't they raise up like so many feet in a very short period of I mean, there's no way they could have climbed as fast as that. He noticed on his altimeter after the object had laugh that he was like fifteen hundred or nineteen hundred feet higher than he was. Yeah, and he had no explanation for how that happened. Yeah, I'm wondering why that wasn't investigated more, or was it heavily investigated. Do you know, as far as I know, it was not heavily investigated, I mean talk about you know, national security issues. Yeah, I mean it was investigated a lot by various civilian investigators, right. I think there's someone in Tufos, I can't remember her name. She did a good report on it. But as far as I know, it wasn't heavily investigated by the military. Did he did he do a lot of talking on this on that subject himself and was corroborated by other people on the crew? Yes, yeah, the rest of the crew corroborated, I mean all four and National guardsmen. And what about the helicopter itself to sustain any type of issues from that not to my knowledge. I mean, there may have been an issue with the compass on it that may not have corrected itself, I'm much certain, But other than that, I'm not aware of any permanent problem with the helicopter. Yeah, well, yeah, that's something. Getting back to your book, just a couple more questions. Do you think that this helps the person reading it, the child or even an older person reading it, Do you think it helps guide them in a direction where they're going to do more research into the topic. Yeah, I try to bring as much science for that age group as I can. Right, you can't go heavy into science at that age, but you can get their curiosity going. So like I explained to them the difference between for example, facts and a hypothesis versus like a theory, and so like, I tell them, you might have a hypothesis that earthworms like the shade, So you can create an experiment where you you divide up a box and you count the earthworms. You know, when it's the daytime, which side are they on or in how many you're on the shaded side, you know, So I give them an idea of how that works. And also at the end of the book, I tell them if they want to learn more about UFOs, the first thing they should do is study science in school. So that's I think we need more kids that go into the field of science. So I said, whether you like geology or astronomy, or physics or chemistry doesn't make any difference. As long as you study science, you'll gain the right tools and knowledge to learn more about UFOs. And then I give them a list of books that you know, if I want something a little more meeting to learn, because the idea here is that this book just gets them going. Yeah, and then I list other books that are more advanced that they could begin to read. So that's kind of the idea on this. And did you like, for instance, let's say the coin helicopter case, did you have like at the end of there for more information on this case, you know, go here or something like anything like that. As far as you know, most people get the information from the internet. It's kind of a scary place sometimes to get the right information. That's true. Now, what I didn't do that. I just recommended specific books they should go read. And some of those books have the coin case. For example, our book UFOs and Government is one, but I listed that one farther down because I wanted books that were a little easier, right, because this is a seven to eleven year old age group. Yeah, so I list them from easiest to most to more difficult. M h. And yeah, I like that that title UFOs in Government and uh. And that was also was that science minded too for the younger people as well? Your thousand government is really directed towards a college age kids. Yeah, So it's like I said, there's over a thousand references and it's written like a history book. Um so it's it's very it's much more matter of fact and dryer. It's much dryer than like this book. Yeah yeah, interesting. Wow. So let's let's shift gears a little bit and let's talk about the SCU which you're involved. And can you explain to the listener that is unaware of the stealthy what that is, what it is and who's involved? Plea sure. So. The SEU stands for the Scientific Coalition of UAP Studies and it was created in September of twenty seventeen by myself and two other individuals. It's a five oh one c three nonprofit. Today, it has over one hundred members. Most of those members have science backgrounds. Over half have advanced degrees that's masters or PhDs. About sixteen percent are from other countries. We have members who are part of NASA, part of the European Space Agency. We have an ex nora AD member. We've got several members that are part of actually security. What else can I tell you about it? Um? I guess the key thing is I think to understand that in our organization is a good example that people with science background backgrounds are interested in the subject. This is not a subject that all scientists avoid. We have university professors in SEU that are part of our overall team, and we're over one hundred now, and we really didn't go out trying to recruit people. They find us. And then we have a board of directors meeting every month and whenever someone applies, we review, you know, their resume, their view on the UAP subject and you know, we say, you know, yeah, your name, and we're I think we're at one hundred five hundred six members right now. Yeah. I've gotten involved just in helping with the streams and the topics are just fantastic. And I was thrilled that Linda Zimmerman um it became a member of the team there as well. Yeah, I um the name brings a bell. It's hard for me to keep track of. Yeah, she's up the one I can connected you with the animal science right right right. Yeah, And actually, Martin, I've sent her a couple of cases I just happened to run across when I was going through some blue book cases that were good animal cases, so I sent them to her. Yeah, yeah, she liked that. Another fascinating topic. I mean there's so many when it when it when it comes to this, but um, what are some of the uh I know that, like I said, I've helped to host some of the talks, but what are some of the scientific takes on this? You know? Like Michael Masters is very interesting the time travel things, right, He's part of that. And there are several people that have been on this show, Kevin Knuth and and many others. But there's all all types of ways of looking at this topic. Is I mean within SUH, there are people across a full range of their thoughts on the topic, right. I mean, some people may think the et hypothesis is the most likely, you know, Others like Michael Masters, think well, perhaps time travel might be the best explanation. And and this is important, Um. Within the SEU, we understand what a hypothesis is, and it doesn't mean that we believe that it's necessary really true. Right. So when Michael Master says, okay, you could explain this with time travel, he's saying, okay, time travel could explain it, but he's not saying that is the answer, right, And a lot a lot of times in the public they don't. People don't always understand that especially in the media, if you say the et hypothesis, they assume that you're automatically saying there's little green aliens in the flying saucers. Yeah. Well, really, all the ET hypothesis says is based on what we know of extrasolar planets and what we know of the universe. A hypothesis is that that could be, not that it is. It could be the origin of these craft, right. I don't know if you if you saw this and I didn't. I didn't see this in particular, but I know that Obama was asked about UFOs on not with Jimmy Kimmel, and I'm wondering if this is just a new interview with Stephen Colbert. Did you happen to catch that? Now I didn't catch it, so I can't really comment on what he said. Yeah, but you know, for all politicians, I don't think on that subject they're ever going to comment very concretely. It's always going to be, you know, kind of a wishy washy answer. I would suspect. Yeah, Well, when Jimmy Kimmel asked Obama what he thought, he goes if I was sitting there, you know, and then he's like laughing, how unlikely that would be. In the president's office, the first thing he would do is find out what's going on with UFOs. That's what Jimmy Kimmel says to Obama. Well, a friend of the show, um Ben Hansen, spent forty some odd hours going over that clip to do body language with his training in the FBI Obama's body language, and he says that he was very uneasy at talking about it. You know, basically you could see the rate of the breath rate, you know, the the possible heartbeat rate rising and all that shortness of breath, you know, things like that when he was talking about the topic. Yeah, and I could believe that. Of course, what you don't know is why is he uneasy? Yeah? Is it because he knows something? Or is it because he knows Wow? Just talking about this subject is not good for my political career. Not easy, exactly, It could be It could be that exactly. It's very very true. Um. Yeah, it's nothing. Nothing that I saw. Another question here, nothing you can can get any firm answers from at all. I can't. There was another question besides this one. Have you ever found any UFO footage interesting yourself? Uh? Well, to me. The most I'll mention too. One is the Nimits video from two thousand and four. I find that one very interesting, but not because of just the video. If all we had was that video, then I would be like, yeah, but you've got so many witnesses and you had an event that happened that day that that makes the video much more useful. Another video is the two thousand and thirteen Aguadilla video, which we analyze. This is over Puerto Rico. Yes, I wanted to talk about that because it's the Homeland Security. You spend a lot of time on that one. Can you can you bring that up and just kind of go into detail on that if you don't mind, sure, so we gain we Morgan Bill, who's part of the SEU, also was able to obtain this video. It's a video that came from Homeland Security and apparently the video had just been circulating within their offices, you know, just passing it around, and so he got a copy of it. And what you see in the video initially is not very exciting. I mean, you just see this object moving through the air. And when I first saw it, it's a three minute video. You know, I'm watching it so, okay, it's an r video. And then you see the operators zoom in on it and it it starts to go over the ocean. Okay, so and then it hits the water and to the naked eye, you don't even see the water move goes into the water, and I was like, okay, that's that's pretty weird. And then it comes out of the water again there's no real splash. Yeah, there's the aguity of video there. And I'll just do a footnote here. When we went in and analyze it in detail, there is movement in the water, but it's just minute. Okay. So it comes out of the water. And then here was the weirdest thing of the whole video. The thing splits in half. And when well I first saw that, it was like, wow, now that is that is strange. So we spent a year and a half analyzing this video, and I took the video and we broke it out frame by frame. So you've got thirty frames for every second of video. And when it splits, right, I'm looking at every individual frame and I'm looking you get pixel values for every pixel on that frame. So you've got a frame with thousands of pixel values the object itself at the time it's split consisted of about thirty five pixels, so there's a you know, this isn't just two or three or four pixels. There's thirty five pixels, and you get a value from zero to two hundred and fifty. So the bigger the number in this particular video, the colder. The smaller the number, the hotter, And whenever you followed this object through the video anywhere through it, there's always a core within the object that's hotter than the rest of the objects. So there's a core heat area. So it's it's coming out of the water, you still see its heat area, and frame by frame, the heat area begins to expand, and the entire object begins to expand until it's roughly double its original size. Instead of thirty five pixels, we're now looking at seventy pixels. It's this up on the screen now for YouTube? Is that? That's it? There? If I remember where you're at on the video, that's hum let's see where are you at on that? I would say that's right before it it starts to split in half, I think, but I'm not positive at the moment, but it looks almost like a cluster in a way. Well, yeah, because you're looking at that, you're looking at about sixty seventy pixels there. I say, you were to increase the max. The pixelation is mostly doing that, right, and so the object, like I said, the heat area increases, right, and the object is doubled in size and the heat areas double in size. The next thing that happened was really weird is frame by frame they the heat area starts to split apart. In the report, I call it similar to mitosis, which in biology is what a cell does right before it splits into two cells. The nucleus splits and then the whole cell splits. And that's exactly what this looked like. So I don't have an explanation. Um. Now, there's a lot of people who've tried to explain it. For example, they'll say, well that the object didn't really split in half, it was a reflection, right. And then another explanation was, oh, the the object there was really two objects, and then they just finally came apart after three minutes. Right. Um, So there's all these but none of those explanations are good explanations for what you know, what's going on in the video, because if, for example, take if you had two objects tied together that finally split. Well, for starters, there was a full three minutes of almost three minutes of video prior to that, and you never see I mean, this is a high quality military IR video. You never can separate the two objects. I mean they look like one object until you get to this point and then they split. You know, that doesn't that doesn't make sense. I mean we've looked at every possible explanation and we've never come up with any. And what about speeds are erratic behavior? Besides the water the speed, the highest speed it ever gets to it is like one hundred twenty miles an hour. So the speed itself is not unusual other than two things. One, this is at night and this object is moving right near trees and telephone poles at its speeds from sixty to one hundred miles an hour in the middle of the night, and it has no light source on it, and it's able to not impact anything. I mean, that's if you could imagine something at thirty to forty feet in altitude cruising through your neighborhood at eighty to one hundred miles an hour at night. And not getting anything. That's pretty good. The other thing that is unusual about the speed is that when it impacts the water, there's a very slight reduction in speed. It hit the water at around one hundred and five miles an hour, so we see it dropped to about eighty five, and then it continues to move at around eighty five and before it when it comes out of the water, then it's it around sixty five. But you don't see this big splash. You just see a very faint water movement as it goes in. And we thought, Okay, a drone might be able to do that. But what a drone can't do is come back out of the water at high speed, right unless there's a rocket or something like that, Right, Like an ICBM coming out of a submarine does that, but you've got a rocket propellant to break through the water and keep going up. Yeah, there's there's drones that will go into the water and come back out, but they kind of like float up to the top and they just bear and you know, they finally break the plane and then they get in the atmosphere and start moving again. But I'm not aware of anything that can just move through the water at that speed and just keep on going through the water. And what about propulsion? Did you see any signs of propulsion? No, there was no signs of propulsion. That's such a bizarre case. Yeah, and uh and there were there was a was it like, did you say four of you that we're working on us for a year and a half. Yeah, there's four of us that worked on for about a year and a half and it just basically comes down to inconclusive. Yeah, we have no idea what that is. The only thing we can say is we've eliminated every possible explanation we could think of, from birds to drones to balloons to what have you. Yeah, and what is that? What is the common um skeptic say? Did they bring up all those things balloons? Because I think I heard that myself the commons skeptic. You know, it changes over time. So they started off with the balloon theory, and then that didn't work too well because you've got a heat source the center area is hotter than the rest, plus an imferred with a balloon, the bottom of the balloon is going to And we demonstrated this by actually doing a balloon test. The bottom of the balloon will be warmer and the top will be colder. It's because infrared is reflecting the basically black body radiation of the atmosphere, so it's cold on top and on the bottom it's reflecting heat coming off the land, so it looks warmer on the bottom. So that was the first theory, which that didn't work. So then the next theory I think a lot of the skeptics came up with, was let me back up, Martin. I mean, I'm a skeptic. These guys aren't skeptics. They're what I called the bunkers. In other words, they've already decided it can't be, and so what do I have to do to say it can't be. It's not an open minded approach. So then it's okay. Must be two lanterns, right, like Chinese lanterns, tied together, and so they're they're flying through. And bear in mind the wind speed this on this day is fifteen miles an hour. Fifteen miles an hour. Any One who's ever flown a Chinese landard knows that. I don't even think you could get it off the ground, let alone keep it in the air. Because what happens is these things are very a fragile, and the wind is just going to collapse it and your candles just going to drop to the ground. So uh, there's there's no way it could you know that that could explain is and then and then but to make the theory go further, they say, okay, so I've got these two Chinese lanterns. They're stuck together. And then right when they get over the ocean. Right, so when they're over the ocean, the plane's looking at them, now they split apart. And and but how about how did they go into the ocean? Oh? Okay? Well, at first they said, uh, clouds, because clouds broke, you know, will stop I r which is true. And I said, well, I don't think so, because I can see the way ocean waves. So how can the cloud, you know, block the object but not block the ocean waves? Right, So then it came up the next one that came up with, Oh okay, the reason it looks like it went into the water is because the camera just lost its ability to focus properly, and so the object just disappeared. Right. I mean, it's just like one I mean, for me, it's almost like it's the the flip side of people who will say anything to say there's a little gray alien here. Right, it doesn't matter what you say, They're gonna have a reason why there is a little gray alien. Well, these guys are the same thing, except it doesn't matter what you say. They're gonna have a reason why it cannot be even though there are argument is it's like waiving a magic one, right, I mean, what kind of argument is it to say, Oh, the camera just lost its focusing ability. That must be what it was, because then five seconds later the object comes out of the water. So what are you going to argue now, Oh, it got its focusing ability back, Oh it disappeared again, lost its focusing. I mean, it's just like and if you had to guess how as far as a distance in the water, how long was it in the water. It was in the water for I think the longest time was maybe seven or eight seconds, and about how many would you say, a hundred yards or something? Oh, that it would have moved in seven or eight seconds. Yeah, well let's see, Oh it's moving at sixty miles an hour. That's a mile a minute, right, So a mile a minute is you don't have to try to do the mask seconds. Yeah, about five hundred feet. Oh so it is. Yeah, how about that interesting? And I saw that. I actually watched that video when it when it goes into the water, and that is just baffling. And you can actually see this video up. It's somewhere on YouTube, right, Yeah, yeah, it's on YouTube. If they google uh Aguadya, Puerto Rico UFO, Homeland Security, it will they'll pull it up. And what did the Homeland Security what did they did? They do their own investigation? Oh, before I answer that question, actually they can go to the SEU website explore su dot org and we've got it on our website. Yes, that's right to YouTube. And no, as far as I know, Homeland Security did not never investigate it. Wow, isn't that interesting? Don't you think that's another case that they would really want to find out? You know, it's really it's like a sociological issue with people in general. I don't think it's a cover up. It's like because they were passing it around in their office, right, like, what is it? Wow, we can't but no one really investigated it. Oh okay, I'm gonna take this back, Martin. When we first talked to them, they did. They sent it to the Air Force a Quantico, I believe in Quantico, Virginia send it to them, and the guy told us that. Two weeks later the Air Force sent it back. Reply, why don't you go talk to a UFO organization? Really? I mean, I just like, are you kidding? How about that? Yeah? That is that's really interesting. Now maybe they really did investigate it. Who knows, and they just told those guys that, you know, go talk to you. You know, that's possible, but I think it's probably likely that's exactly what they said. How about that? Wow, did nothing with it? Going to current events, I'm sure you saw this thing about in the Utah Desert with the monolith that showed up. Oh yeah, yeah. I have so many emails I've been getting from people. A lot of people are thinking it's aliens. I personally think it's And then it showed up in Bulgaria I believe it was. Yeah, that was a different looking not Bulgaria, somewhere else Poland maybe I think it was Poland. Anyway, So anyway, somewhere else in the world it showed up. Whether it's the same one or not, I think it's it was different. Oh, is it. I think someone's having some fun. Yeah, you talking about it, and uh yeah, it's kind of a yeah. I would think it would be a great art project or whatever to put something out and hopefully it's discovered it and if so, they got all the media that they could possibly ever want out of that. Boy, they got a lot of mileage. So here's a question that came up from Stephen. Can us be using technologies we have yet to comprehend which explains UFO footage. I'm not sure about that last part of the question, but I would agree UFOs display technology which we don't understand. That doesn't mean it necessarily violates physics, but right we don't understand how how it operates. Oh by the way, thank you, Genessa. That's Romania's where that thing showed up. Okay, we got clause, but Gary and pauland we were all around. At least we got Eastern Europe, right, Yeah, yeah, that's right. I think I'm going to put up a right now if anyone wants to call in, it's gonna be just a little bit different. But I will let Bill know over he's going to be screening over at KGr A Radio. He will take your call and talk to you and let me know that you were there. So that number is eight five five four seven two five four eight three, and Bill is standing by. Unfortunately I can't see when calls come in, but Bill will let me know when that does happen. Now, the same gentlemen or gentlemen and women that you actually did that study with for that Puerto Rican object, whatever it was, did you in turn study something else? I mean, this is sort of the beginning of the SEU too, wasn't it right. That was the first major case the SEU did. Then the next case that we did was the ussnmits case, and that took I think I started on that case trying to remember the middle of two thou sixteen's when I began sending foyeas to the Navy. And then that went on throughout twenty and seventeen, and and then I did the interview on your show I think October or November two thousand and seventeen, and then the New York Times their story came out. I think it was December seventeenth, two thousand and seventeen. Yeah, December sixteen, twenty seventeen, right, And we finally finished the report and released it. I think it was in like August to two thousand and eighteen, so that was about two years. And in between when we talked in late two thousand and seventeen and twenty and eighteen when you finished your report, was there a lot of a lot more things that you uncovered as far as like four years. Oh, you mean from after years when I did your show. Yeah, well, yeah, there was quite a bit because in addition to talking to Kevin day right, and I talked to Kevin Daymartin before any he ever got involved in Facebook or talked to other people, so that was a fresh interview of him. Then I found Gary Voris, right. I found him by actually going on to the USS Princeton Facebook site. And if you go to my report, like whoever this new guy is you have? You could pull up at my report and do a Google search on the report or do a search for his name, and you'll see if if I had picked him up on Facebook, because I would say on Facebook there were a total of seven to eight sailors talking about that back in two thousand and nine to ten, and so I basically messaged every one of them. Gary Voris was one that replied back to me, and so I was able to interview him. And then there was another gentleman who replied back to me. Gosh, I can't think of his name at the moment. He was one of the first witnesses, and so I interviewed him. And but there were two or three guys. There was a cryptologist on there in the crypto group that was talking about it, but I never could get him to, you know, reply to me so that I could interview him. But it was clear to me as soon as I saw that Facebook site that you know, this story had legs, as they say, wow, yeah, you know. The amazing thing is you have the all these different ships that had radar that were capable of detecting this object, and yet all that data it's just kveyhold somewhere, I know. And how I mean, do you think do you think there's still more doors to open? Do you think that will will actually get more I'm looking for the gentleman's name right now. Um, you know, I don't unless unless the Navy releases um the data. I'm just not sure what more can be done with the case, because in my mind, there's no doubt it happened. I think that's that's finished and dusted, as they say. The issue is could we get data? Imagine if we could get the radar data that the USS president is tracking the sake, right, Um, we could know the actual acceleration numbers, we can know the exact speed the object traveled at, and there might even be additional information you could get. Right, Um, I know that this uh witnesses for name is Brian. That's that's all I have. I don't know if that yeah, I don't, I don't know. I'd have to go back to the report because there were, like I said, eight or nine guys talking about it m and I was only able to get two of them to reply to my requests up. So I think we might let's say, yeah, we have someone ready. It looks like we have Steve from Pasadena on the line. Steve, can you hear me? Welcome to the show. Thank you, Martin Hi, Robert Hi, Steve Hi. My question is other than Stanton Freedman, a nuclear physics, a scientists, why haven't scientists taking up this UFO phenomena and studied it? Why we can't get it science look at this? Well, Actually, Steve, we aren't within the SEU we have a number of teams that are looking at it. I mean, we've got a number of physicists that are within the SEU as well as engineers. UM. So we're actually actively looking at it. The problem is getting the real data. UM. It's hard to to make a science report based on purely witnessed data. What we really need is the you know, the the raw radar data for example, and any any any anything you'd like to add to that. Stephen, just one more question, if I may, Do you believe that we have some kind of material that that that that we have and that's been studied that from of your bold Well, you know that's not I can't say absolutely that we don't, but I seriously doubt it. Um. I just and that's just based on all the research I've done and all the reading I've done. I don't believe that we have in hand. I mean, okay, I'm gonna take there might be like a piece of something, right, but I don't believe we have like it from Roswell, any technology that we've got our hands on that we've tried to reverse engineer. Is that what you meant the latter, yes, sir, And I just want to thank you for taking this scientific Victor broke to this phenomena, because that's what we really need. We need the minds behind this looking at it, and thank you. You're welcome, and we need the data so those minds can analyze it. Yeah, thanks for the call, Steve. All right, Next we have John. Looks like John's calling from New York. Hi, John, welcome to the show. Hello, very good to talk to you. Martin and watched the show all the time. Well, I've been interested in the upos all my life and I don't know why. Maybe it's just the thought of something different, But um, my question really is actually toward Bob Blazare and Bob's Bazare. He thinks he said now stories changed now they said they dug up these UFOs and he didn't never said that in the past by digging up UFOs, you know. And then also a thing about him, as I always questioned, Um, he said he went to MT. Right, and he never mentioned living in Massachusetts. He had to go there to go to MT. He never mentioned going there at all. Ever. I was just curious about that. What your thoughts were on them? Well? They Yeah, my main problem, John, I guess with it he claimed sit element one ten is what powers these UFOs, well fifteen, so maybe it's one fifteen either way. From from element one ten clear to element one fifteen. Those elements are artificially produced and they exist for usually a millisecond or a microsecond, and then and then you lose and then they begin to dissipate. So it's um, it just doesn't make sense to me how you could use any of those as an energy source. Yeah, I'd like to add something to it, because I always get in trouble when it comes to Bob Bazaar. I always get emails after I talk about him. But I mean, you know, my my thought is to your point, John, and that is uh. He was at a public like a conference, and people were asking him. I mentioned this on the show before, but people were asking him questions from the audience. It was live. He couldn't dodge the question, and someone said to him, Okay, Bob, you went to MT. What was the square right outside of MT? And anyone that spent a day at MT knows that it's Kendall Square. And he said, I can't recall, so that just to me right then and there says he never set foot in MT. You know, for any amount of time. Yeah, I don't know the beginning he started out. He was kind of believable then and went downhill from there. I just started to get on my nose, my question and it's on your thoughts. Yeah, all right, thanks for the call. So the lines open everyone, and again that that number is eight four seven two five four eighty three year call is welcome. And uh, let's see. Uh uh it looks like we got someone else calling in, so I will h oh oh. He was trying to write me. He messed up. He said noon on holding. He meant to say, no, one is on hold. So the other thing I can comment real quick, Yeah, Martin on reverse engineering, Right, So I worked in the semiconductor field, and we reversed engineered our competitors microprocessors all the time. And let me tell you that is very difficult. And that's a science, right, that's a competitor who's at the same level of understanding as us, and it takes us months to years. Imagine taking like an F eighteen, well not even that, just take your cell phone, give it to the greatest scientists one hundred and fifty years ago. Yeah, they would never reverse engineering, would never happen. I know, I mean, and you know, I mean there's there are theories. You know, people were saying, well, there there's also some people that actually do believe that there's crash material and that it's being looked at. That was also in James Fox's latest film. Um, you know, they didn't have a material scientists actually analyze it. They had Um Nolan over at Stanford, a very good scientists, but still not exactly the right person to analyze it. So I just and even so, what would make something definitive that it's for extraterrestrial? Just to have some type of technology and the fabrication that we can't reproduce. Yeah, even you know, it's a bit to me, it's a big Even if we got our hands on a piece of material that was built by another civilization, even if it's just a little piece, Um, there's nothing we could do with it. At the very molest we might be able to determine, yes, this was not built here, and then that that's about all you could do with it. What else could you You can't say, so it's definitely alien. There's no definitive way to say this was an alien made unless you had a whole craft, or at least exactly you need, right, you'd need something like like cell phone or their communication device or or something like that that you could clearly say. I mean, because on elementary analysis you could determine that the isotope ratios of a material are not or foreign to this earth. Right. So, but that's all it tells you. It just tells you it does not appear to have been made here. But where did it come from? You don't know, I mean, is it a piece of a meteorite? Yeah, a lost asteroid chunk exactly. Well, we have Mike from Cincinnata. Welcome to the show. Mike, gentlemen him, I'll ask my question and then I'll take the answer off air. Sure, Robert mentioned the Puerto Rican Ufo hardly displaced any water when it entered the sea. I'm wondered about when it came back out if it pulled any water behind it. M interesting, So thank you, thank you, thank you for the call. Mike. No, that's a good question, Mike. When it came out of the water, there was no water that was pulled up with it either, So apparently it was able to enter and leave the water with just very minor disturbance of the water, was any Robert, was any of the well skeptics or debunkers as you mentioned, trying to say that, um, there was a wave in front of it, so it looked like it went in the water a wave in front. Now I haven't heard that. The only two arguments I've heard to say it did not really go in the water. One is that you know, the clouds, some cloud must have obscured the object from the ir Lands, right, and then then the second argument was that the camera just lost its ability to resolve the object at that point in time. Yeah, so yeah, nothing, nothing definitive. Now, when the SCU is actually looking at a case, how do you go about that? I mean, how do you decide what case you're going to take on? And who are the people that get involved within if they have some type of related science background to what you're looking at. Yep. Well, the first step is trying to determine is there enough data to make the case worth analyzing? And most of the time the answers know, so we stop right there. I mean, I'll give you an example, the two thousand and fifteen videos right that you've seen that TTSA is released that that's a very interesting video, you know, because you've got pilots talking about you know what, and the heck is that right? But there's we don't have those pilots testament and a video by itself. It's similar to just testimony by itself. I mean, you really need those both of those supporting each other. So we haven't really looked at the twenty fifteen case because there's just not enough testimony supporting exactly what was going on. I got it, Okay, someone wants to know, Adam wants to know, why do you seem to be unconvinced by any gravity as propulsion for these craft? Because these craft exhibit when we did a paper on the Nimitz case and the accelerations went into hundreds of G forces. So that acceleration is a function of the inertial mass of an object and how fast it can accelerate. You could take gravity out of the equation, right, I mean, just make the Earth disappear. You still can't accelerate rapidly unless you've got either number one, a huge power supply behind you, or number two, your mass has been reduced significantly and so you're not having to accelerate large So to me, gravity has nothing to do with it, right, all gravity does? Our gravity is one G force. When you drop towards the Earth, you're moving it one G. So and you know you could eliminate the Earth's gravity. All you're talking about its one G and these things are displaying hundreds of G forces. Now is mass and displacement two different things? I'm not sure? All right, I'm gonna say the object it was about forty I'm talking about the tic tac um. The object was somewhere around forty to forty five ft long, right, um? And then you know it drops from sixty thousand feet down to a few feet above the ocean. Uh. And in a matter of I forget what it was one point seven seconds or something like point seven eight seconds. So, um, if this thing had the displacement the shape of forty five feet, But is that different than the mass of forty five You know the weight? Say it could have no weight and still displace that. Right. It's shape controls how much air resistance? Right, Yes, like even a balloon would have air air resistance, yes, right, But it's weight, whether it weigh one gram or weighs forty thousand pounds, it's going to move towards the Earth with just a fours of one G. Yeah, independent that's Galileo's experiment. Remember he drops the feather in the Yeah. Yeah, and they'll both in the back. Um, yeah, feather in the hammer, so you can get rid of that gravity. And that to me, that does not explain what these crafts are capable of doing. Yeah, and you mentioned earlier, you know some of these things should have like be a ball of flame. Is this the case with the nimits? Should that have been a ball of flame? Absolutely? The speed of that object was well over twenty thousand miles an hour at low altitude. I mean it should have been like a meteorite. Just not only would you have a ball of flame, the atmosphere around it would be just almost explosively moving away from it and thee moving through the atmosphere. Is there any constructed craft we could have that would take a G force like that? No, No, everything would qualifie. Yeah, an artillery shell has like fifty or sixty g's an F sixteen can handle, though I think around fourteen or fifteen g's. F eighteen won't handle that much. But like a missile, say a missile you know, with a warhead on air or something. Yeah, it could handle more g's. I'm not sure how high a missile could handle. I would I'm just guessing probably around fifty g's, but I don't I don't know. It's it's probably more of a function of the internal components and when your internal components get damaged from the G forces. Wow, let's see, this is a little This is a quote on air resistance. Do you agree with the statement that Jeff put up there? Does that make any sense to you? Well, like lasers, the reason you're use they're able to use high powered lasers is they do these very extremely rapid bursts where the first weight laser front basically paul rises the atmosphere and then your main laser comes right behind it. And so that's how you're able to get a high powered laser to move through the atmosphere. Same thing we do to look at stars with the newest telescopes is that a laser light move basically causes the atmosphere to part in that area just for a very brief moment in time. But you can't use it to like allow a jet aircraft to fly through the atmosphere without resistance. Yeah, that's when they do that with a laser. It's I mean, you're talking like it. I think it's like in Pico seconds that the one laser flashes, the next one comes behind it. Yeah. I think there was a physic assist named Mirrabo, Mirrabos, something like that. Do you know that. Have you heard that name Mirrabo? That was talking about propulsion with plasma plasma in front of it? None of that rings about all right, I'll change the subject, yeah, because I may have that off a little bit. But we're going to wrap here in just one minute. So just if you would tell people where they can find the book and it's on Is it on Amazon? Right? It's on Amazon, It's on Barnes and Noble. There's a hardback, which I think is the nicest for a gift, or you can do paperback. It's also on Kindle. And if if someone wanted an autograph copy, I can. I have a limited number of those. But they sent you an email, Martin, then you could afford it to me and I could work out with them to get them may on it. That sounds like a great idea. All right, Robert, thank you so much. I always fun talking to you yeah, same here, Martin. All right, you take care all right, thank you? Yea bye all right everyone, So that's it for the show. We'll be back next week with Melanie Kirchendorffer from the Berkshire's UFO. Should be a great one. Thanks so much for listening, and remember everyone to keep your eyes to the sky.