WEBVTT

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This is a commercial, free archive
edition of our live radio show that airs

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every Friday at noon, Arizona time
on openminds dot TV. Welcome to open

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Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former Director of Public Education and official

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spokesperson for the Mutual ufone Network,
Aalajandro, who's been a UFO paranormal researcher

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and journalist for nearly a decade and
has logged hours in the field investigating the

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paranormal up close and personal. And
now Open Minds Radio presents evidence and the

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latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon.
Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello,

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and welcome to Open Minds Radio.
This is Alejandro Rojas and we have

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another exciting show today. Our guest
is going to be Chuck Zukowski. He

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is a paranormal investigator, and we're
going to be talking about cattle mutilations.

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There were several that happened in Colorado
and you may be thinking, cattle get

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killed all the time, what's the
big deal, But these are mysterious cattle

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mutilations where even the local authorities actually
went to Chuck, this paranormal investigator to

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help them figure out what the heck
is going on because they don't know who

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or what is mutilating these cattle.
They've been found in these very strange situations,

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and we'll talk more about that when
Chuck comes on the line. He's

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an electronics engineer and a reserve Deputy
sheriff in El Paso County, Colorado.

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That's in Colorado Springs, home of
the Air Force Academy and Air Force Space

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Command. There is an Air Force
Space Command read more about it on Google.

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He's an accomplished UFO and paranormal investigator
and he's going to be talking to

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us about his work with the authorities
on these mutilations. He was even able

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to get the Colorado State University to
help him out with this mystery, and

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they're one of the top BET schools
in the country, so that's really exciting.

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All of this has happened in or
around the mysterious San Luis Valley in

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Colorado, So if you're not aware
of that, there's been strange things happening

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in this valley for years. I
should just share my San Luis story.

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Actually, my family's from that valley. My great grandma grew up there and

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when she was a little girl,
she remembers being under the dinner table when

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there was a pounding that came to
the door. They opened the door and

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this guy panic said that he had
been chased by a six foot praying mantis

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all night, and so her father
and uncle actually grabbed their guns and went

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out looking for this thing, which
they never found. But that's just one

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of the many strange stories that happens
in the San Luis Valley. Maybe we'll

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ask Check if he's got some more
if you want to read more about Check.

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He's a guy in this field who
takes things seriously but also has a

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sense of humor. As you're going
to find his website, it's ufot dot

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com. You want to look more
into this UFO net that we're going to

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have on today. However, before
we talk to our guests, as usual,

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we're going to update you on UFOs. In the news. These are

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headlines from conventional media around the world. We keep an eye on what's going

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on out there, and we post
these stories on our website at Openminds dot

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tv. But today we have our
news correspondent, Jason McClellan. Jason,

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what's the news out there? Thanks? Alejandro. In the news this week,

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If you've ever wanted to send a
message into space, here's your chance.

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SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, is marking its fiftieth anniversary by

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using a radio telescope to send five
thousand messages into space. Messages can be

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submitted to SETI, and the fifty
best messages will be published in the Daily

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Telegraph in March, and those winners
will also receive copies of ASU professor Paul

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Davies' new book, The Air Silence. So what message would you send into

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space? Yo? Just yo,
just yo, Yeah, kind of disagreeing,

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you know, Hey, yo,
hmmm, I'd have to give it

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some thought. You know what I
think is funny about this, though,

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is at SETI, even though they're
called Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, you think

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they'd be our buddies. They're not, because they're real skeptical. They're using

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radio signals and they have a concern
these days because we're not using that technology

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anymore. I don't know why they
assume that some advanced civilizations out there would

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use it, But really you could
go on your two way radio and send

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the message on your two way radio, and those radio waves I believe are

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going to go out into space.
So I don't know why we need them

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to do it, but yeah,
that's what I say. Yo. Hopefully

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they're already listening to our radio show. Yeah, they could be. Our

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radio show's probably going out into space. Also in the news, Richard Heen,

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father of the balloon Boy, was
released from jail on Sunday after serving

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twenty eight days for his role in
the hoax that sent rescue teams chasing after

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the infam helium powered balloon. Heen
was released two days early from his thirty

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day sentence and is now serving sixty
days through the work release program. Heen

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and his wife both pled guilty in
November to falsely reporting that their six year

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old son had floated away in a
UFO shaped balloon. Yeah, all in

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a stunt to try to get out
their own UFO program, which is really

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sad, and it may have worked, we'll see, but I mean he

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spent some time in prison for it. So. In other news, according

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to Michael Mautner, a research professor
of chemistry at Virginia Commonwealth University, we

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have a moral obligation to seed the
universe with life, preparing other worlds to

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develop and sustain complex life therefore giving
human existence a cosmic purpose. Matner claim's

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current technology can accomplish the task of
launching directed panspermia missions. Wow, that

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sounds like a term that would be
used in some futuristic sci fi movie where

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an old man is having a conversation
with a younger man telling him that,

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oh, well, you know,
a man your age should be out launching

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directed pant spermia sewing wild oats,
yeah, in space, sow your wild

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oats in space. Yeah. It
reminds me of James Kirk, you know,

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Star Trek. That's what he was
trying to do. That's right,

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and he was having fun doing it, it seems like. So that's great.

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You can read more about Professor Mattner's
ideas in the upcoming issue of Journal

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of Cosmology. That's all for me. I'm your Open Minds News Open Minds

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News correspondent Jason McClellan, and I'll
kick it back to you a hondro.

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All right, thanks Jason. We
also have our own featured news that we

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have on our website, and this
week we have a story on the Irish.

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We talked a little bit about it
last week. Actually, the Irish

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being given credit for a UFO video
that was actually taken in California, and

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there was some confusion there because The
Sun, a popular paper in the UK,

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had said that there was this new
exciting video that was just found and

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it was filmed over Ireland. And
the video they showed is a very interesting

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video. I think it's definitely something
to look at. They had Nick Pope,

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who it worked for the Ministry of
Defense in the UK investigating UFOs,

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talked about it. He found it
to be pretty incredible, but it wasn't

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new and it wasn't shot in Ireland. In fact, it was posted on

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YouTube about a year ago and the
guy claimed to have taken in Fremont,

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California, using night vision technology.
So it's kind of gray where you see

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this triangular configuration flying above the city
and it kind of makes like this,

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you sort of motion and flying very
quickly. So it's very strange what that

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might be. So who knows.
It could be some black project, some

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secret advanced technology, or of course
it could be from elsewhere yet to be

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seen. So we'll keep you up
to date on that. But you can

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read more about that story and watch
that video at openminds dot tv. We

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also have kind of a cool one
out there on the brilliant buzzard, and

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these are some black projects. We
got a guy, Michael Schratt on our

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team now who is in an aerospace
historian, and he's been looking into what

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some of the top secret craft that
we have might be, what might be

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flying around. And he uses some
witness testimony from engineers or people who say

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they were in the military gassing one
of these things up or something. So

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some amazing stuff. And if you
think about even the brand new craft out

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there, like the F twenty two
Raptor, which is brand new, you

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know, but that was developed like
twenty years ago or something, So who

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knows what they may have out there. It's amazing what there might have out

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there. So I'm really excited.
After the break here, which we're going

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to take in just a few seconds, we're going to have Chuck to talk

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about cattle mutilations. Some of you
have probably heard about mutilations, some of

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you haven't. But I'm really proud
of my good buddy Chuck here who went

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and actually worked with authorities. He's
got a great personality and he's a deputy

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sheriff, so people like to work
with them. And also doing a great

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job by getting CSU involved, because
it's rare that people get universities to get

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into the paranormal. So we'll be
talking to Chuck right after the break.

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If you're listening to Open Minds Radio
with Alejandro Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio,

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I Love one hundred. All right, we're back, and I want

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to remind you that some of these
cool feature stories we've been talking about at

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Openminds dot tv are also made into
little news beaturette videos by our excellent video

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producer Tom Ruffin and his crew.
So you got to check those out.

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You'll see them right on the front
page, so they're they're hard to miss.

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But now, ladies and gentlemen,
I believe we have the one and

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only Chuck Zukowski on the line.
Chuck, are you there? Yeah,

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I'm here. You're really excited to
hear from yourself. Huh Hey, I

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tell you who I have, my
fellow Arizona Ice. I was born in

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Stafford. Oh that's right. I
forgot you were born out here. That's

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right. But now you're living in
beautiful Colorado. Wow, beautiful cold Colorado.

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We had snow yesterday and I think
it's about forty degrees now today.

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Well, to start off getting off
of the bad news of the cold weather

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out there, because you know,
we've got like seventy plus weather out here

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and it's beautiful. I'm happy about
my move. But start off with what

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got you interested in investigating the paranormal? Oh my gosh, I think I've

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been interested in it ever since I
can remember. You know, someone else

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have asked me that last year,
and I think as a kid, I

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might have saw something that kind of
you know, sparked my interests and I

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decided to stick with that. I
do remember when I moved from California out

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to Colorado and I said, I'm
going through some of my old stuff.

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I did to find some old books
that I had bought when I was in

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elementary that was based on UFOs.
So I've always had a fascination with it.

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And of course six kids in my
family, only two of us were

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really UFOE investigators. And decided to
go into that field against me and my

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sister Debbie, and we really didn't
even know each other. We're going into

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that field until we did a family
reunion. Yeah, that's so cool talking

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about it, and it's not just
an interest, but Debbie's Egomele, your

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sister is a great researcher. Also, I mean you guys are out there.

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I mean you're big time researchers who
are out there doing conferences and talking

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to people, and it's just not
a passion. It's something that you guys

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do on a probably almost spend as
much time as you do on your regular

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jobs. Unfortunately, I'd love to
spend as much time for my regular shop,

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and you know, but something has
to be able to fund my hobby,

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and my regular job is that.
But spent a pretty exciting year so

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far. In January, I've done
two bigfoot investigations with our good friend Joe

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Sex out there in the northwestern part
of Colorado up in the Pipe. Seeks

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are actually Colorado National Force. And
then last Saturday I jumped in on a

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ghost investigation at a famous Stanley hotel. Cool this park was that your first

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time going to the Stanley? Well
at ended the Stanley a few times I

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was doing their ghost tours and I
had joined had given me a three D

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in the Shikha camera, which is
kind of cool if for stuff ends on

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it, and so a lot of
what experiments I swung by there last Saturday

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to do their five o'clock ghosts investigation
our ghost tour excuse me, and they

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were offering an investigation from APM till
one in the morning, and they had

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a slat open, so I jumped
in and I happened to have my kit

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my car with my night vision and
trifild meter and digital recorder and three D

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camera that's on the website. Matter
of fact, last night and tonight,

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I'm still pulling some video clips off
of off of my high eight. I

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did pick up a couple of orbs
and uh, I did pick up some

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pretty interesting responses to my Trifield meter
when I was talking through particular individually.

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Yeah, getting into that one.
I guess one thing about the Stanley Hotel

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that people should know is that the
movie The Shining was based on the Stanley

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Hotel. Uh So it is a
very famous haunted hotel where lots of people

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get some weird stuff. But now
knowing you and you're mentioning some of your

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equipment, you're em after reader and
all of that, and knowing that you're

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into the various paranormal fields such as
ghosts and UFOs, just real quick before

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we move on, even with the
cattle mutilations. Do you find some sort

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of similarity between these different paranormal areas. That's a very very good question,

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Aleandra, and I'm at just staying
at Visu're my good buddy, But yeah,

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you know, cattle mutilations. We've
had UFO fighting around catmulation areas also

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where there's been a strange military presence
around calamulation sightings. Alien abductions sometimes rolls

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into the supernatural. I did have
a couple of years ago, I had

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a lady contact me that she thought
that she was being objected, and when

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I went and checked it out,
it was more of a supernatural thing.

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So at the time, I mighty
have the equivalent to do a parent you

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know, of a rust investigation,
and then versa visa. You know,

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you would have someone that's possibly thinking
that their house is haunted in this typical

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abduction scenario. So I think we're
seeing some carts over there. And as

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an investigator, you really have to
get familiarized with all the different aspects.

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So you're going out and saying,
I'm sorry, ma'am, you're not being

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abducted. Those are only ghosts,
or no, you don't have ghosts in

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your house, you're actually being abducted. Yeah. Really, it's not too

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often will the ghosts actually put an
implant in you? Yeah, unless unless

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it's something new, I'm not quite
sure. You know, we have to

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see on top of that and Verst
advice that you know, where people seem

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to think and we find out that, you know, it's really some paranormal

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activity. And I'm pretty excited,
you know. I've been, uh,

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I've been trying to pick up some
of my uh my equipment and and change

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change over. And I've got a
couple of Sony CCD night visions cree cameras

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actually they're they're due to arrive today
via ups and that I got D D

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R and a kind of stuff because
you know, slowly you have to start

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picking up, you know, your
tools and getting them up to date.

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Yeah. That's one thing why guys
love this sort of stuff because you get

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to have lots of toys that you
play with and get out there little things

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at beef and mics moving well,
you know, the last two Bigfoot investigations,

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and the first one I had three
night vision cameras set up in and

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a wildlife camera set up and then
the one the two Saturdays go well.

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And I know that I talked to
you about that. I know you guys

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didn't get a whole lot. You
kind of a secret or some kind of

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super squirrel who we're able to do
some incredible stuff on your videos, But

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where you were more fruitful and one
of your investigations was a cattle mutilation.

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So I want to talk about that. I know we're going to have actually

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an article in our magazine that is
coming out in a couple of months,

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and not in the first issue,
but in the second issue, where we'll

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have some of the pictures. Unfortunately, it's it's hard to get pictures that

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aren't very unpleasant when it comes to
cattle mutilations. But to start off with

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these cattle mutilations, what has indicated
to you in these cases or historically in

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cases of cattle mutilations, why it
doesn't lead to predators or humans that seem

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to be doing this. Well?
First off, you know, we had

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one of the first cases was Lady
the Horse not Sniffy out here in the

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Satele's Belly back in sixty seven.
And since nineteen sixty seven, at least

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out here in the United States,
we've had multiple cattle mutilations occurring almost every

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year, and since then no one's
been caught, convicted, tried, you

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know, the whole bit. So
you know, the human aspect would be

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these guys would be affible, actually
phenomenal because they're able to you know,

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pick up anywhere from a you know, nine hundred to you know, a

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twelve thirteen hundred pound animal, do
their business with the animal, you know,

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extracting blood and doing the surgical tests
and removal of organs, and then

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putting the animal back with no trace
evidence at all. So that's so you're

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saying, essentially, yeah, these
animals are taken. Uh, organs are

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seem to be sturgically removed, and
what organs typically are removed, well,

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you know that's with my five you
know particular cases we really except for the

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calves, for everything was removed.
With the two calves that I did last

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year, the Miller case and the
Sanchiz case, the whole center sction of

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the animal was completely gone. All
the organs were gone, everything, and

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they even you know, basically cleared
out the inside of the rig cage,

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so your lungs, your heart,
everything was missing. Uh. Generally you

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see pieces of the animal missing.
You'll see the sexual organs removed, or

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or the anal area will be removed, or maybe an eye. A lot

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of times the tongue is gone.
So it seems like at first we're seeing

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anything that goes in goes out of
the animal. That particular area was affected

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by, uh, you know,
by the mutilation. But last year it

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became very destructive the point where you
know, all the center section of these

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small calves were just completely just obliterated, just removed. And for such destruction,

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and not to see any signs of
blood, blood splattering, pieces of

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meat pulling, you know, a
car up pieces of the carcass from you

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know, scavengers. All that's avoid
as matter of fact. What is interesting

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and I did learn from the five
well now that you know, some people

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say, or some other investigators say
that when an animal gets mutilated that other

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scavengers and predators of mat predators and
scavengers won't touch, and that's not true.

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I have plenty of evidence of scavengers
have touched the you know, mutilation

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case piece that I personally see.
But what's interesting about that is is they

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don't go and gavage the unusual cutting
parts wherever the animals have you know,

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had the unusual cut, surgical looking
touch. They won't touch that, They'll

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go somewhere else. And what's really
really unusual about that is is you'll see

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it's basically smoke moved rightly. Some
fresh meat doesn't make sense. They don't

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have to pull through the hide to
go right into some nice soft meat.

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It's all right there. No,
they'd rather go somewhere else on the animal,

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you know, to eat. And
that part found very very interesting in

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all five cases. Yeah, well, we'll get into more details about all

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of these five cases after our break
that's coming up here, and we'll get

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into more detail about these animals where
everything was removed and it didn't seem to

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be predator killed because, like you
said, there wasn't blood in the area

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or pieces in parts of these organs
are around where the animal was found.

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Is which is typical for a predator
kill. So, and which is why

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the authorities were so baffled. And
we'll get more into that and go over

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these five cases that you investigated as
soon as we get back from our break.

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So stay tuned people, you're listening
to Open Minds Radio on KFNX eleven

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hundred. This is Open Minds Radio
here again, your host UFO paranormal researcher

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and journalist Alejandro Rojas. All right, we are back. I want to

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remind you we're going to open up
the phone lines here in a minute,

276
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.599
but feel free to call in right
now and see in the queue get your

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00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:53.599
question ready. You can call us
at six oh two two seven seven five

278
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.839
three six' nine, or if
you're outside of the area and you're watching

279
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:03.920
us at open mindst TV on the
live stream, you can call one eight

280
00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:08.799
sixty six five three six eleven hundred. For more information about Chuck, you

281
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.920
can read a story. We've got
a story of him up on Open mindset

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00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:18.279
TV, but you can also go
to his awesome website ufo nut dot com.

283
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.839
And your website just keeps getting better. Check it's looking really good.

284
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.839
Hey, thank you very much.
I'm sure that Morgan, the person who

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Sparkle for my website come. I
appreciate that. I'm just emailing them right

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now. Cool. I mean you've
got your own videos up there too.

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Well. You know, we have
to be able to compete with the big

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guys. Yep, that's that's the
big guys, the big guys. I

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don't mean that at a you know, modular way. Are you making fun

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of my weight? No, I'm
not making fun of your way as far

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as you know. But let's get
into some of these cattle mutilations you investigated.

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First was the Mike Durand case.
And what was that? That was

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March. That was about a year
ago, right, Yeah, absolutely,

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we're we're looking at about No,
the last time the animal was seen was

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on Sunday, March Ese and then
we rolled down their March. Oh,

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what was that? I guess we're
looking at the week after that, March

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Ese. Yeah, we were out
there tenth or eleventh or something like that.

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Yeah, I think cure it was. It was a tent so and

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interesting enough, this guy had UFO
sidings and he believed his animal was mutilated

300
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by extraterrestrials. Yeah. What's interesting
about that was this was the second time

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that he's been hit. He was
hit previously back in the late eighties,

302
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so he's, you know, we
are I guess we can refer to him

303
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as somewhat experienced in having this event
happened to, you know, a person

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before. And even back then,
he's mentioned that he's saw usual life before

305
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.720
the animals, you know, his
animals. Relative now to the five cases,

306
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:10.240
two of the ranchers actually saw unusual
like Duran being one and then Manuel

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Sanchez and the other. What I
found interesting with Mike Durant's cases, this

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animal was found and this one wasn't
totally obliterated like some of the others.

309
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But this animal was found at the
bottom of a large ridge and it was

310
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a little difficult for us to get
down there. So, I mean,

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it didn't look like predators because there
weren't pieces and parts and blood around.

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And if it were done by humans, how did they kill the animal?

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If they did it somewhere else because
there wasn't a mess there, how the

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00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:47.440
heck would they have gotten the animal
down there? You know what I really

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liked about this particular case, and
I really have favorite things about all five

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of the cases. What I liked
about this one was the animal. Half

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of the animal was laying partially,
you know, in the stream, and

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the other half, you know,
the legs, the hud of you know,

319
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they were right on the bank of
the stream in the mud. Now,

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if an animal was going to die, it would have struggled a little

321
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bit, especially if it was predators, you know, that were taking it

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down, there would be marks in
the mud. There would be score marks

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from the animal trying to move its
legs to trying to get back up.

324
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And when we got this, you
know, chance to see that as it

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looks as if the animal was just
placed there or if it fell down.

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It's just you know, it fell
down like it was frozen solid without moving

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its legs at all. Right,
So you're looking at the evidence there,

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you can clearly see that there was
no stroll at all, because we would

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have seen it in the mud,
and the mud was dried in certain areas

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around you know, the front and
hind legs. So that was what I

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liked really good about that particular case
is the lack of well and the perfect

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perfect environment to to prove that there
was no struggle, right, And this

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was a case where what the otter
was taken. I remember that the anal

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00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:15.119
area was cored out so kind of
like the other historical cases. And it

335
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was also in view I mean it
was probably a ways a few hundred feet,

336
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but in view of a house.
Yeah, yeah, it was pretty

337
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close to a small highway, not
a big one. What's interesting also about

338
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this animal is it was twenty eight
years old and it was one of his

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favorite animals because it was twenty eighth
and he took care of it a little

340
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bit differently, you know, said
it a little bit extra and extra vitamins.

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So being a favorite animal, he
he knew that there was you know

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when you know, if they were
sick or he would know if there was

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problems with it, just because you
know, he considered a head somewhat and

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when you started missing, he was
looking for it. And with this case,

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this is where you first started to
work with authorities because I remember,

346
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I think you saw this on the
news and the police had said they were

347
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baffled, and I believe you contacted
the police at that point and they got

348
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:15.319
you in touch with Duran. Is
that how it worked? Yeah, I

349
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actually actually have it here. I
think it was I called when my first

350
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time on the news, I contacted
the local uh kawa a UH channel,

351
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.119
it doesn't matter, and I contacted
them and they got me in touch with

352
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:33.359
the lockdown and as County Sheriff's department, and I talked to a Deputy l

353
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.680
Elliott there and I asked him to
give me a favorite. Could you contact

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00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:42.960
the rancher had and give the rancher
you know, uh mind name and the

355
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rancher you know did that he did, you know, he did fall you

356
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:48.519
know, go through with him,
which I was pretty excited he did.

357
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But that's you know, I basically
tracked the first one down after it came

358
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out of the news, and so
unfortunately, you know, we were there

359
00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.720
a good week or so after it
actually happened. You would love to be

360
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at an investigation within thirty six hours. But this was still a very good

361
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:11.480
case and samples were taking. Even
though the samples were somewhat gift handed to

362
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do to you know, longetivity of
the animal being you know dead and then

363
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:19.960
being on stream to you know,
call us, the university was still able

364
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:25.799
to look at the samples to determine
whether or not the country post motor or

365
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.279
pre Yeah, and we'll talk a
little bit more about that, but I

366
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.359
did want to talk about how did
how were the authorities, what was their

367
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:38.000
disposition? How are they treating you? And what you do? And uh,

368
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.200
you know, what did they tell
you about the case. Well,

369
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.480
it's interesting, it really depends on
the case. With their en case,

370
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:52.640
they were very helpful and I got
the information really quick where I was able

371
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.599
to set up in the investment,
you know, a investigation that Saturday.

372
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A couple better cases. H After
talking to the ranchers, it seems as

373
00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:08.400
though its the local UH County Cheers
department. We were interested or not even

374
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:12.599
interested. I guess that pretty much
all depends upon the deputy. He goes

375
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:17.039
out there and looks at it.
If he has somewhat of an open mind,

376
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:18.599
then you're going to get a little
more information out of him. If

377
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he has a friend's mind, and
just those they're already with the assumption that

378
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:27.440
it's that it's a predator and scavengers
that did the damage, they're not really

379
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:33.240
going to get too much out.
But you know, the deputies like me,

380
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:36.440
you know, we're you know,
we're human. We have in our

381
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:40.400
own difference. We're all brought up
differently, so you know when we look

382
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:41.480
at these things, where you look
at them a little differently and you would

383
00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:45.680
help, you would, you know, be talking to someone with law enforcement

384
00:29:45.799 --> 00:29:48.960
that has a very open mind.
Now, how are you so sure that

385
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:59.359
these other deputies are human? Actually, though they did admit though that they

386
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.960
were baffled. They it sounds like
at least they admitted to the to the

387
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.240
media that they weren't sure who or
what had done this. Well, you

388
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:11.160
know, at first the end case
was pretty good and they did admit that,

389
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.400
and then we had the Miller and
Garren after that, and it kind

390
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:18.839
of, uh, they were kind
of getting suspicious, like, oh,

391
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:21.680
well, now we have a predator
because it's happened a couple of times.

392
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.160
And then it was kind of slow
until we're looking at November December when we

393
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:34.200
had two more and the manual Stanchez
one that that you know you guys had

394
00:30:34.279 --> 00:30:40.880
on your website. The local sheriff's
department was really baffled by that, and

395
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:44.519
the Denver Post. There was an
article on the Denver Posts where the reporter

396
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:47.119
went down there and talked with me. Then, yeah, yeah, that

397
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.480
was a great article. Now we've
got to go to break, but I

398
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:53.440
want to talk more about how the
authorities continued to be involved with these cases

399
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:57.440
and baffled by these cases, and
then we'll get into how the university got

400
00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:03.000
involved with these catter mutilations. We're
talking to Jacksukowski, paranormal investigator. We'll

401
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:12.319
be back in a minute. Welcome
back to Open Minds Radio. Here now

402
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:18.039
official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network
your host of Open Minds Radio, Avaljandro

403
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:25.400
Rojas. We're back with Open Minds
and we're talking about cattle mutilations here,

404
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.720
very strange stuff. And we're talking
about the authorities. These big tough deputy

405
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:38.240
police officers out there in Colorado shaking
in their boots because they don't know what

406
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.119
is mutilating these animals in their county. Remember, you can call in.

407
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:47.799
Call in right now, everybody,
call in and ask your question about cattle

408
00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:52.720
mutilations. The number six oh two
two seven seven, five three six nine

409
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:57.039
or toll free one eight sixty six
five three six eleven hundred. Don't be

410
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:00.920
afraid. Chuck's a really nice guy. And uh, that's probably why you

411
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:05.599
got to work with so many authorities. I checked. In fact, wasn't

412
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:10.039
it the authorities who plugged you in
or tuned you in to the cases after

413
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:19.160
the durand mutilation? Yeah, Actually, the one of the brand inspectors tied

414
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:23.119
me in on a couple of cases
and uh, and then uh, one

415
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:27.279
of the representatives from the Castila Sheriff's
Department I was able to talk to,

416
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.200
tied me into into one. Actually, ill you know, but after the

417
00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:37.319
fact, I think after the firm
actually actually after Duran, the more and

418
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:42.359
more this information gets out, like
on your radio show, in the in

419
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:45.160
the news, in the media,
the more that people know who to contact.

420
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:51.240
Because basically, with the very last
case that I called, you know,

421
00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:53.759
I call the Air and Mutilation,
you know, which is not the

422
00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:57.920
real rancher's name. He just didn't
want to have to deal with the media.

423
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:02.720
What happened was the case occurred,
the sheriff's department came out, this

424
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:15.680
particular representative, sheriff's department didn't seem
that interested, and so basically the rancher

425
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:19.839
himself started looking around for help.
Gotcha, And that also happened with the

426
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:22.839
Manuel Sanchez case. Yeah, we
do have a collar on the line.

427
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:28.319
So let's take this question from our
caller real quick online when we've got Ted.

428
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:31.400
Are you there, Ted? Yeah, sure, Ted from Awatuk.

429
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:37.559
Yes, Sir, I was wondering
how much the government involvement has it been

430
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:42.359
in some of these cases? And
I'll hang up and listen. Okay,

431
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:46.279
great, thanks for the question.
How much has the government been involved in

432
00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:50.799
it? Yeah? That was a
question, right, That's a good question.

433
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:54.480
That's something that we always ask ourselves
too. I do know that out

434
00:33:54.519 --> 00:34:00.160
of here in Colorado back in the
eighties when they had a stringities cattle mulations

435
00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:06.640
going on. Before that, all
the all the lawn law enforcements all through

436
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:10.360
Colorado since and represented them down to
the Saint Louis Valley on the weekend for

437
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:16.800
a quick cattle mutilation lecture. Wow, And it was pretty serious about that

438
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:22.440
back then. Uh So, you
know, that's about close I can say

439
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.119
that the government's been involved. Now
if you're thinking further, you know,

440
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:29.559
up the ladder, that's a that's
a really good question. We have seen,

441
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:36.360
our witnesses have seen no military type
individuals, military type vehicles in an

442
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:40.519
area where cattle mulations have occurred.
That's not the case for you know,

443
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:46.280
the five that I did last year. But I personally believe that they know

444
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:52.039
what's going on, and at least
I would hope that they It's interesting that

445
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.440
they wouldn't get very involved with this. Uh And I know, and and

446
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:59.559
then the question is are they the
ones doing it? And I know some

447
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:04.519
of the famous mutilation that happen right
near the San Luis Valley on the border

448
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:08.519
of New Mexico and Colorado at the
Bacca Ranch. There's a sheriff there who's

449
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:12.840
looked into it, and he believes
that these are being done by the military,

450
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:15.400
but who knows, huh, why
would they do that? And if

451
00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:22.000
it is being done by the military, then gifts in conjunction to militaries or

452
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.199
or they have their hands in it
all over the world. I got an

453
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:30.800
email just well, I guess it
was the end of last week about mutilations

454
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:34.760
in England. They've had tons of
them. I've got emails from Canada,

455
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:40.519
Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Chile. You know, so these aren't just

456
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:45.760
happening in the United States and all. Matter of fact, last week got

457
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:52.800
pictures of a mutilation case in Kansas. Wows, just as recent as two

458
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:58.480
weeks ago, are these situations where
certain organs were removed or like you had

459
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:04.320
found occasionally where you know, everything's
gone the one in Kansas to within a

460
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:07.679
couple of weeks ago, it was
pretty much everything. Wow, it was

461
00:36:07.719 --> 00:36:13.000
a calf. So it almost seems
like we're starting to see a pattern here

462
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:19.199
now with the larger animals they're going
in and they're doing physical cuts. With

463
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:23.000
the smaller animals, they're just taking
everything in the middle. One what's interesting

464
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:29.400
out of the two calves. The
Miller Calf had its ears removed. I

465
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.039
mean, if you look at the
pictures on my website, it's absolutely ridiculous.

466
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:36.559
Their ears are actually cut off.
Yeah, obviously, you know,

467
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:39.559
unless we have a scavenger with a
knife in his hand, you know that

468
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:45.000
he could use it and in opposable
appendages to be able to hold it.

469
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:47.880
Yeah, you know. Got a
couple of quick questions here too. Sorry,

470
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:53.199
work only got a few minutes left. So this personto asking if you

471
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:59.679
know if mutilations are in the increase
since the seventies. You know, I

472
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:04.119
think what's happening is and that's a
very good question. I think we're being

473
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.320
more it's being more talked about,
and we're more aware of it, so

474
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.519
we're hearing more about it. Right, So we get a lot of UFO

475
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:14.159
studies out here in Colorado because it's
so clear and there's not a lot of

476
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:16.719
life pollutions, so people have a
tendencies seeing more. And I think that's

477
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:21.119
what the case is with the mutilations. Right. And then before you know,

478
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:23.320
I want to get into this before
we're done, which is you getting

479
00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:30.400
the University of Colorado or Colorado State
University involved, which is really cool because

480
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:34.760
they're a great vet school, and
how did they react when you ask them

481
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:39.599
to participate in investigating these It was
really interesting when I first went down there

482
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:47.679
with some samples of the Duran and
Miller and the Darren case was they were

483
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:54.559
confused. Originally there was a doctor
there that had done lab analysis on back

484
00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:58.880
in the eighties, but he is
long retired, so they had a new

485
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:02.039
group of people in their and I
had to sit down and basically I taught

486
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:07.360
a good hour and an hour and
a half lecture actually did with the you

487
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:09.960
know, with the doctor there,
and then you know, the interns that

488
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.320
she was teaching, and we did
a lecture on it so we can get

489
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:17.679
them up to speech and what's going
to run. And then ever since that

490
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:23.559
one, every relation case I've had, I contacted CSU and talked to my

491
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:29.559
representative then ask when they're advice of
what samples to take if I need to

492
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:32.880
take samples, because basically you can
take samples while you want, but unless

493
00:38:32.920 --> 00:38:37.960
the lab has got the facilities to
test for that particular sample and what you

494
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:40.000
want is it's kind of useless.
Right. That's one thing I've learned in

495
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:44.920
this investigating. If you've got someone
willing, and it's better to look for

496
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:50.039
someone willing and capable like of course
a university vet or whoever to look at

497
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:52.920
these samples. Then you ask them
prior to getting the samples, what's the

498
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:57.920
best way to collect them and where
do I collect them? Because that way

499
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:00.320
you have the best samples available.
And what they found in this case,

500
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:06.679
if I'm not correct, was interesting
that in the Durand case that they couldn't

501
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:10.559
prove it wasn't predators. But they
did find that the incisions were made after

502
00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:15.320
the animal's death, so that these
incisions weren't the cause of death, which

503
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:20.559
still is interesting. That is pretty
interesting. You know, I reread that

504
00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:23.440
report, you know, just recently
because due to another show I was on

505
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:29.039
and I actually read it and I
read into it again where I almost I

506
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:32.519
saw them contradicted themselves, a little
bit of a little bit of confusion there,

507
00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:37.920
you know, victory or post mortems
and because there was there was no

508
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:42.400
hemorrhaging, you know, no evidence
of hemorrhaging. Uh, it should have

509
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:45.079
if the animal was bleeding out when
you know, when it cuts, they

510
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:47.800
would have been side of hemorrhaging.
And in other cases they're going, well,

511
00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:51.920
we don't there was no times well
there was, well, we don't

512
00:39:51.960 --> 00:40:00.239
know. So I would love to
hope that the decisions were after the animal

513
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:04.639
was dead, just you know,
just because I'd hate to see an animal

514
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:09.079
goes through all that agony of what
happened. Right, Well, we found

515
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:13.000
another color. I think that's all
we'll have time is to take this color

516
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:15.320
is called real quick and then we'll
wrap up. But we got chuck online.

517
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:21.039
One another check and this one's from
MASA check. Go ahead. How

518
00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:24.400
are you guys doing today? Great? Thanks for calling. Find a question.

519
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:30.039
Now you say that the animals were
dead before the incisions were made.

520
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:35.639
Were there any toxicology reports done to
see if these animals might have been poisoned?

521
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:39.039
Another great question? And another a
great question. I'll answer that real

522
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:45.239
quick. Well, what happened was
this Originally? How how you test for

523
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:50.159
toxology? Uh, you would take
in twitter organs and we found about We

524
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:53.320
found that about. So that's how
the lap up after the fact. So

525
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:59.000
currently, what I'm working with the
College a University is we get we get

526
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:01.079
a plant case that we're where it
was been thirty six dollars because a lot

527
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:05.960
of that stuff will dissipate over a
short period of fun and you'll lose the

528
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:10.960
evidence. So they've agreed that either
we're going to send the representative down with

529
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:15.800
me and we'll do the property RD
on site, or we're going to pick

530
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.719
the animal in the flatbed truck and
haul this animal back to Fort Collins Force

531
00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:23.639
csuis right. So that was a
great question. Have to pick the organs?

532
00:41:23.719 --> 00:41:25.599
Yeah, that's a good question.
You have to take the organs.

533
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:30.559
Yeah, and that's the goal.
That's what we're looking to do is get

534
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:32.599
that done so we can tell if
there was any poisoning being done. But

535
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:37.320
we got to get the animal quicker. But we are out of time,

536
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:43.599
mister Zukowski. If you want to
hear you guys more from Check. Yeah,

537
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:47.639
thanks check uh which check think both
of our checks they were both great.

538
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:52.280
But you can see check at the
UFO Congress and you can also meet

539
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:58.039
open Minds there. That's at Ufocongress
dot com, which is a conference coming

540
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:00.400
up in just a couple of weeks. It goes like the week from the

541
00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:04.960
twenty first to the twenty eighth,
So come check us out there, check

542
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:07.000
us out. Next week, we're
gonna have David Serta. He's in the

543
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:13.519
technology industry, and he got involved
with UFO research when he found some NASA

544
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:16.440
footage that apparently has UFOs in it. He's gonna talk to us about that

545
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:22.800
and also his relationship with Dan Akroyd. He filmed a great documentary with Dan

546
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:28.199
Akroyd who talks for two hours on
Akroyd's UFO research. He's really into this.

547
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:31.559
Thanks for listening to open Minds Radio. All of this can be found

548
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:37.159
at openminds dot tv. You can
also get more information on advertising at open

549
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:42.559
Minds Radio. We're bringing the UFO
subject into the light of day and we're

550
00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:57.159
happy that you were here listening.
Thank you, ele Gools