This is a commercial, free archive edition of our live radio show that airs
every Friday at noon, Arizona time on openminds dot TV. Welcome to open
Minds Radio with your host Alejandro Rojas, former Director of Public Education and official
spokesperson for the Mutual ufone Network, Aalajandro, who's been a UFO paranormal researcher
and journalist for nearly a decade and has logged hours in the field investigating the
paranormal up close and personal. And now Open Minds Radio presents evidence and the
latest news regarding the UFO phenomenon. Here's your host, Alejandro Rojas. Hello,
and welcome to Open Minds Radio. This is Alejandro Rojas and we have
another exciting show today. Our guest is going to be Chuck Zukowski. He
is a paranormal investigator, and we're going to be talking about cattle mutilations.
There were several that happened in Colorado and you may be thinking, cattle get
killed all the time, what's the big deal, But these are mysterious cattle
mutilations where even the local authorities actually went to Chuck, this paranormal investigator to
help them figure out what the heck is going on because they don't know who
or what is mutilating these cattle. They've been found in these very strange situations,
and we'll talk more about that when Chuck comes on the line. He's
an electronics engineer and a reserve Deputy sheriff in El Paso County, Colorado.
That's in Colorado Springs, home of the Air Force Academy and Air Force Space
Command. There is an Air Force Space Command read more about it on Google.
He's an accomplished UFO and paranormal investigator and he's going to be talking to
us about his work with the authorities on these mutilations. He was even able
to get the Colorado State University to help him out with this mystery, and
they're one of the top BET schools in the country, so that's really exciting.
All of this has happened in or around the mysterious San Luis Valley in
Colorado, So if you're not aware of that, there's been strange things happening
in this valley for years. I should just share my San Luis story.
Actually, my family's from that valley. My great grandma grew up there and
when she was a little girl, she remembers being under the dinner table when
there was a pounding that came to the door. They opened the door and
this guy panic said that he had been chased by a six foot praying mantis
all night, and so her father and uncle actually grabbed their guns and went
out looking for this thing, which they never found. But that's just one
of the many strange stories that happens in the San Luis Valley. Maybe we'll
ask Check if he's got some more if you want to read more about Check.
He's a guy in this field who takes things seriously but also has a
sense of humor. As you're going to find his website, it's ufot dot
com. You want to look more into this UFO net that we're going to
have on today. However, before we talk to our guests, as usual,
we're going to update you on UFOs. In the news. These are
headlines from conventional media around the world. We keep an eye on what's going
on out there, and we post these stories on our website at Openminds dot
tv. But today we have our news correspondent, Jason McClellan. Jason,
what's the news out there? Thanks? Alejandro. In the news this week,
If you've ever wanted to send a message into space, here's your chance.
SETI, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, is marking its fiftieth anniversary by
using a radio telescope to send five thousand messages into space. Messages can be
submitted to SETI, and the fifty best messages will be published in the Daily
Telegraph in March, and those winners will also receive copies of ASU professor Paul
Davies' new book, The Air Silence. So what message would you send into
space? Yo? Just yo, just yo, Yeah, kind of disagreeing,
you know, Hey, yo, hmmm, I'd have to give it
some thought. You know what I think is funny about this, though,
is at SETI, even though they're called Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, you think
they'd be our buddies. They're not, because they're real skeptical. They're using
radio signals and they have a concern these days because we're not using that technology
anymore. I don't know why they assume that some advanced civilizations out there would
use it, But really you could go on your two way radio and send
the message on your two way radio, and those radio waves I believe are
going to go out into space. So I don't know why we need them
to do it, but yeah, that's what I say. Yo. Hopefully
they're already listening to our radio show. Yeah, they could be. Our
radio show's probably going out into space. Also in the news, Richard Heen,
father of the balloon Boy, was released from jail on Sunday after serving
twenty eight days for his role in the hoax that sent rescue teams chasing after
the infam helium powered balloon. Heen was released two days early from his thirty
day sentence and is now serving sixty days through the work release program. Heen
and his wife both pled guilty in November to falsely reporting that their six year
old son had floated away in a UFO shaped balloon. Yeah, all in
a stunt to try to get out their own UFO program, which is really
sad, and it may have worked, we'll see, but I mean he
spent some time in prison for it. So. In other news, according
to Michael Mautner, a research professor of chemistry at Virginia Commonwealth University, we
have a moral obligation to seed the universe with life, preparing other worlds to
develop and sustain complex life therefore giving human existence a cosmic purpose. Matner claim's
current technology can accomplish the task of launching directed panspermia missions. Wow, that
sounds like a term that would be used in some futuristic sci fi movie where
an old man is having a conversation with a younger man telling him that,
oh, well, you know, a man your age should be out launching
directed pant spermia sewing wild oats, yeah, in space, sow your wild
oats in space. Yeah. It reminds me of James Kirk, you know,
Star Trek. That's what he was trying to do. That's right,
and he was having fun doing it, it seems like. So that's great.
You can read more about Professor Mattner's ideas in the upcoming issue of Journal
of Cosmology. That's all for me. I'm your Open Minds News Open Minds
News correspondent Jason McClellan, and I'll kick it back to you a hondro.
All right, thanks Jason. We also have our own featured news that we
have on our website, and this week we have a story on the Irish.
We talked a little bit about it last week. Actually, the Irish
being given credit for a UFO video that was actually taken in California, and
there was some confusion there because The Sun, a popular paper in the UK,
had said that there was this new exciting video that was just found and
it was filmed over Ireland. And the video they showed is a very interesting
video. I think it's definitely something to look at. They had Nick Pope,
who it worked for the Ministry of Defense in the UK investigating UFOs,
talked about it. He found it to be pretty incredible, but it wasn't
new and it wasn't shot in Ireland. In fact, it was posted on
YouTube about a year ago and the guy claimed to have taken in Fremont,
California, using night vision technology. So it's kind of gray where you see
this triangular configuration flying above the city and it kind of makes like this,
you sort of motion and flying very quickly. So it's very strange what that
might be. So who knows. It could be some black project, some
secret advanced technology, or of course it could be from elsewhere yet to be
seen. So we'll keep you up to date on that. But you can
read more about that story and watch that video at openminds dot tv. We
also have kind of a cool one out there on the brilliant buzzard, and
these are some black projects. We got a guy, Michael Schratt on our
team now who is in an aerospace historian, and he's been looking into what
some of the top secret craft that we have might be, what might be
flying around. And he uses some witness testimony from engineers or people who say
they were in the military gassing one of these things up or something. So
some amazing stuff. And if you think about even the brand new craft out
there, like the F twenty two Raptor, which is brand new, you
know, but that was developed like twenty years ago or something, So who
knows what they may have out there. It's amazing what there might have out
there. So I'm really excited. After the break here, which we're going
to take in just a few seconds, we're going to have Chuck to talk
about cattle mutilations. Some of you have probably heard about mutilations, some of
you haven't. But I'm really proud of my good buddy Chuck here who went
and actually worked with authorities. He's got a great personality and he's a deputy
sheriff, so people like to work with them. And also doing a great
job by getting CSU involved, because it's rare that people get universities to get
into the paranormal. So we'll be talking to Chuck right after the break.
If you're listening to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro Rojas on KFNX News Talk Radio,
I Love one hundred. All right, we're back, and I want
to remind you that some of these cool feature stories we've been talking about at
Openminds dot tv are also made into little news beaturette videos by our excellent video
producer Tom Ruffin and his crew. So you got to check those out.
You'll see them right on the front page, so they're they're hard to miss.
But now, ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have the one and
only Chuck Zukowski on the line. Chuck, are you there? Yeah,
I'm here. You're really excited to hear from yourself. Huh Hey, I
tell you who I have, my fellow Arizona Ice. I was born in
Stafford. Oh that's right. I forgot you were born out here. That's
right. But now you're living in beautiful Colorado. Wow, beautiful cold Colorado.
We had snow yesterday and I think it's about forty degrees now today.
Well, to start off getting off of the bad news of the cold weather
out there, because you know, we've got like seventy plus weather out here
and it's beautiful. I'm happy about my move. But start off with what
got you interested in investigating the paranormal? Oh my gosh, I think I've
been interested in it ever since I can remember. You know, someone else
have asked me that last year, and I think as a kid, I
might have saw something that kind of you know, sparked my interests and I
decided to stick with that. I do remember when I moved from California out
to Colorado and I said, I'm going through some of my old stuff.
I did to find some old books that I had bought when I was in
elementary that was based on UFOs. So I've always had a fascination with it.
And of course six kids in my family, only two of us were
really UFOE investigators. And decided to go into that field against me and my
sister Debbie, and we really didn't even know each other. We're going into
that field until we did a family reunion. Yeah, that's so cool talking
about it, and it's not just an interest, but Debbie's Egomele, your
sister is a great researcher. Also, I mean you guys are out there.
I mean you're big time researchers who are out there doing conferences and talking
to people, and it's just not a passion. It's something that you guys
do on a probably almost spend as much time as you do on your regular
jobs. Unfortunately, I'd love to spend as much time for my regular shop,
and you know, but something has to be able to fund my hobby,
and my regular job is that. But spent a pretty exciting year so
far. In January, I've done two bigfoot investigations with our good friend Joe
Sex out there in the northwestern part of Colorado up in the Pipe. Seeks
are actually Colorado National Force. And then last Saturday I jumped in on a
ghost investigation at a famous Stanley hotel. Cool this park was that your first
time going to the Stanley? Well at ended the Stanley a few times I
was doing their ghost tours and I had joined had given me a three D
in the Shikha camera, which is kind of cool if for stuff ends on
it, and so a lot of what experiments I swung by there last Saturday
to do their five o'clock ghosts investigation our ghost tour excuse me, and they
were offering an investigation from APM till one in the morning, and they had
a slat open, so I jumped in and I happened to have my kit
my car with my night vision and trifild meter and digital recorder and three D
camera that's on the website. Matter of fact, last night and tonight,
I'm still pulling some video clips off of off of my high eight. I
did pick up a couple of orbs and uh, I did pick up some
pretty interesting responses to my Trifield meter when I was talking through particular individually.
Yeah, getting into that one. I guess one thing about the Stanley Hotel
that people should know is that the movie The Shining was based on the Stanley
Hotel. Uh So it is a very famous haunted hotel where lots of people
get some weird stuff. But now knowing you and you're mentioning some of your
equipment, you're em after reader and all of that, and knowing that you're
into the various paranormal fields such as ghosts and UFOs, just real quick before
we move on, even with the cattle mutilations. Do you find some sort
of similarity between these different paranormal areas. That's a very very good question,
Aleandra, and I'm at just staying at Visu're my good buddy, But yeah,
you know, cattle mutilations. We've had UFO fighting around catmulation areas also
where there's been a strange military presence around calamulation sightings. Alien abductions sometimes rolls
into the supernatural. I did have a couple of years ago, I had
a lady contact me that she thought that she was being objected, and when
I went and checked it out, it was more of a supernatural thing.
So at the time, I mighty have the equivalent to do a parent you
know, of a rust investigation, and then versa visa. You know,
you would have someone that's possibly thinking that their house is haunted in this typical
abduction scenario. So I think we're seeing some carts over there. And as
an investigator, you really have to get familiarized with all the different aspects.
So you're going out and saying, I'm sorry, ma'am, you're not being
abducted. Those are only ghosts, or no, you don't have ghosts in
your house, you're actually being abducted. Yeah. Really, it's not too
often will the ghosts actually put an implant in you? Yeah, unless unless
it's something new, I'm not quite sure. You know, we have to
see on top of that and Verst advice that you know, where people seem
to think and we find out that, you know, it's really some paranormal
activity. And I'm pretty excited, you know. I've been, uh,
I've been trying to pick up some of my uh my equipment and and change
change over. And I've got a couple of Sony CCD night visions cree cameras
actually they're they're due to arrive today via ups and that I got D D
R and a kind of stuff because you know, slowly you have to start
picking up, you know, your tools and getting them up to date.
Yeah. That's one thing why guys love this sort of stuff because you get
to have lots of toys that you play with and get out there little things
at beef and mics moving well, you know, the last two Bigfoot investigations,
and the first one I had three night vision cameras set up in and
a wildlife camera set up and then the one the two Saturdays go well.
And I know that I talked to you about that. I know you guys
didn't get a whole lot. You kind of a secret or some kind of
super squirrel who we're able to do some incredible stuff on your videos, But
where you were more fruitful and one of your investigations was a cattle mutilation.
So I want to talk about that. I know we're going to have actually
an article in our magazine that is coming out in a couple of months,
and not in the first issue, but in the second issue, where we'll
have some of the pictures. Unfortunately, it's it's hard to get pictures that
aren't very unpleasant when it comes to cattle mutilations. But to start off with
these cattle mutilations, what has indicated to you in these cases or historically in
cases of cattle mutilations, why it doesn't lead to predators or humans that seem
to be doing this. Well? First off, you know, we had
one of the first cases was Lady the Horse not Sniffy out here in the
Satele's Belly back in sixty seven. And since nineteen sixty seven, at least
out here in the United States, we've had multiple cattle mutilations occurring almost every
year, and since then no one's been caught, convicted, tried, you
know, the whole bit. So you know, the human aspect would be
these guys would be affible, actually phenomenal because they're able to you know,
pick up anywhere from a you know, nine hundred to you know, a
twelve thirteen hundred pound animal, do their business with the animal, you know,
extracting blood and doing the surgical tests and removal of organs, and then
putting the animal back with no trace evidence at all. So that's so you're
saying, essentially, yeah, these animals are taken. Uh, organs are
seem to be sturgically removed, and what organs typically are removed, well,
you know that's with my five you know particular cases we really except for the
calves, for everything was removed. With the two calves that I did last
year, the Miller case and the Sanchiz case, the whole center sction of
the animal was completely gone. All the organs were gone, everything, and
they even you know, basically cleared out the inside of the rig cage,
so your lungs, your heart, everything was missing. Uh. Generally you
see pieces of the animal missing. You'll see the sexual organs removed, or
or the anal area will be removed, or maybe an eye. A lot
of times the tongue is gone. So it seems like at first we're seeing
anything that goes in goes out of the animal. That particular area was affected
by, uh, you know, by the mutilation. But last year it
became very destructive the point where you know, all the center section of these
small calves were just completely just obliterated, just removed. And for such destruction,
and not to see any signs of blood, blood splattering, pieces of
meat pulling, you know, a car up pieces of the carcass from you
know, scavengers. All that's avoid as matter of fact. What is interesting
and I did learn from the five well now that you know, some people
say, or some other investigators say that when an animal gets mutilated that other
scavengers and predators of mat predators and scavengers won't touch, and that's not true.
I have plenty of evidence of scavengers have touched the you know, mutilation
case piece that I personally see. But what's interesting about that is is they
don't go and gavage the unusual cutting parts wherever the animals have you know,
had the unusual cut, surgical looking touch. They won't touch that, They'll
go somewhere else. And what's really really unusual about that is is you'll see
it's basically smoke moved rightly. Some fresh meat doesn't make sense. They don't
have to pull through the hide to go right into some nice soft meat.
It's all right there. No, they'd rather go somewhere else on the animal,
you know, to eat. And that part found very very interesting in
all five cases. Yeah, well, we'll get into more details about all
of these five cases after our break that's coming up here, and we'll get
into more detail about these animals where everything was removed and it didn't seem to
be predator killed because, like you said, there wasn't blood in the area
or pieces in parts of these organs are around where the animal was found.
Is which is typical for a predator kill. So, and which is why
the authorities were so baffled. And we'll get more into that and go over
these five cases that you investigated as soon as we get back from our break.
So stay tuned people, you're listening to Open Minds Radio on KFNX eleven
hundred. This is Open Minds Radio here again, your host UFO paranormal researcher
and journalist Alejandro Rojas. All right, we are back. I want to
remind you we're going to open up the phone lines here in a minute,
but feel free to call in right now and see in the queue get your
question ready. You can call us at six oh two two seven seven five
three six' nine, or if you're outside of the area and you're watching
us at open mindst TV on the live stream, you can call one eight
sixty six five three six eleven hundred. For more information about Chuck, you
can read a story. We've got a story of him up on Open mindset
TV, but you can also go to his awesome website ufo nut dot com.
And your website just keeps getting better. Check it's looking really good.
Hey, thank you very much. I'm sure that Morgan, the person who
Sparkle for my website come. I appreciate that. I'm just emailing them right
now. Cool. I mean you've got your own videos up there too.
Well. You know, we have to be able to compete with the big
guys. Yep, that's that's the big guys, the big guys. I
don't mean that at a you know, modular way. Are you making fun
of my weight? No, I'm not making fun of your way as far
as you know. But let's get into some of these cattle mutilations you investigated.
First was the Mike Durand case. And what was that? That was
March. That was about a year ago, right, Yeah, absolutely,
we're we're looking at about No, the last time the animal was seen was
on Sunday, March Ese and then we rolled down their March. Oh,
what was that? I guess we're looking at the week after that, March
Ese. Yeah, we were out there tenth or eleventh or something like that.
Yeah, I think cure it was. It was a tent so and
interesting enough, this guy had UFO sidings and he believed his animal was mutilated
by extraterrestrials. Yeah. What's interesting about that was this was the second time
that he's been hit. He was hit previously back in the late eighties,
so he's, you know, we are I guess we can refer to him
as somewhat experienced in having this event happened to, you know, a person
before. And even back then, he's mentioned that he's saw usual life before
the animals, you know, his animals. Relative now to the five cases,
two of the ranchers actually saw unusual like Duran being one and then Manuel
Sanchez and the other. What I found interesting with Mike Durant's cases, this
animal was found and this one wasn't totally obliterated like some of the others.
But this animal was found at the bottom of a large ridge and it was
a little difficult for us to get down there. So, I mean,
it didn't look like predators because there weren't pieces and parts and blood around.
And if it were done by humans, how did they kill the animal?
If they did it somewhere else because there wasn't a mess there, how the
heck would they have gotten the animal down there? You know what I really
liked about this particular case, and I really have favorite things about all five
of the cases. What I liked about this one was the animal. Half
of the animal was laying partially, you know, in the stream, and
the other half, you know, the legs, the hud of you know,
they were right on the bank of the stream in the mud. Now,
if an animal was going to die, it would have struggled a little
bit, especially if it was predators, you know, that were taking it
down, there would be marks in the mud. There would be score marks
from the animal trying to move its legs to trying to get back up.
And when we got this, you know, chance to see that as it
looks as if the animal was just placed there or if it fell down.
It's just you know, it fell down like it was frozen solid without moving
its legs at all. Right, So you're looking at the evidence there,
you can clearly see that there was no stroll at all, because we would
have seen it in the mud, and the mud was dried in certain areas
around you know, the front and hind legs. So that was what I
liked really good about that particular case is the lack of well and the perfect
perfect environment to to prove that there was no struggle, right, And this
was a case where what the otter was taken. I remember that the anal
area was cored out so kind of like the other historical cases. And it
was also in view I mean it was probably a ways a few hundred feet,
but in view of a house. Yeah, yeah, it was pretty
close to a small highway, not a big one. What's interesting also about
this animal is it was twenty eight years old and it was one of his
favorite animals because it was twenty eighth and he took care of it a little
bit differently, you know, said it a little bit extra and extra vitamins.
So being a favorite animal, he he knew that there was you know
when you know, if they were sick or he would know if there was
problems with it, just because you know, he considered a head somewhat and
when you started missing, he was looking for it. And with this case,
this is where you first started to work with authorities because I remember,
I think you saw this on the news and the police had said they were
baffled, and I believe you contacted the police at that point and they got
you in touch with Duran. Is that how it worked? Yeah, I
actually actually have it here. I think it was I called when my first
time on the news, I contacted the local uh kawa a UH channel,
it doesn't matter, and I contacted them and they got me in touch with
the lockdown and as County Sheriff's department, and I talked to a Deputy l
Elliott there and I asked him to give me a favorite. Could you contact
the rancher had and give the rancher you know, uh mind name and the
rancher you know did that he did, you know, he did fall you
know, go through with him, which I was pretty excited he did.
But that's you know, I basically tracked the first one down after it came
out of the news, and so unfortunately, you know, we were there
a good week or so after it actually happened. You would love to be
at an investigation within thirty six hours. But this was still a very good
case and samples were taking. Even though the samples were somewhat gift handed to
do to you know, longetivity of the animal being you know dead and then
being on stream to you know, call us, the university was still able
to look at the samples to determine whether or not the country post motor or
pre Yeah, and we'll talk a little bit more about that, but I
did want to talk about how did how were the authorities, what was their
disposition? How are they treating you? And what you do? And uh,
you know, what did they tell you about the case. Well,
it's interesting, it really depends on the case. With their en case,
they were very helpful and I got the information really quick where I was able
to set up in the investment, you know, a investigation that Saturday.
A couple better cases. H After talking to the ranchers, it seems as
though its the local UH County Cheers department. We were interested or not even
interested. I guess that pretty much all depends upon the deputy. He goes
out there and looks at it. If he has somewhat of an open mind,
then you're going to get a little more information out of him. If
he has a friend's mind, and just those they're already with the assumption that
it's that it's a predator and scavengers that did the damage, they're not really
going to get too much out. But you know, the deputies like me,
you know, we're you know, we're human. We have in our
own difference. We're all brought up differently, so you know when we look
at these things, where you look at them a little differently and you would
help, you would, you know, be talking to someone with law enforcement
that has a very open mind. Now, how are you so sure that
these other deputies are human? Actually, though they did admit though that they
were baffled. They it sounds like at least they admitted to the to the
media that they weren't sure who or what had done this. Well, you
know, at first the end case was pretty good and they did admit that,
and then we had the Miller and Garren after that, and it kind
of, uh, they were kind of getting suspicious, like, oh,
well, now we have a predator because it's happened a couple of times.
And then it was kind of slow until we're looking at November December when we
had two more and the manual Stanchez one that that you know you guys had
on your website. The local sheriff's department was really baffled by that, and
the Denver Post. There was an article on the Denver Posts where the reporter
went down there and talked with me. Then, yeah, yeah, that
was a great article. Now we've got to go to break, but I
want to talk more about how the authorities continued to be involved with these cases
and baffled by these cases, and then we'll get into how the university got
involved with these catter mutilations. We're talking to Jacksukowski, paranormal investigator. We'll
be back in a minute. Welcome back to Open Minds Radio. Here now
official spokesperson for the Mutual UFO Network your host of Open Minds Radio, Avaljandro
Rojas. We're back with Open Minds and we're talking about cattle mutilations here,
very strange stuff. And we're talking about the authorities. These big tough deputy
police officers out there in Colorado shaking in their boots because they don't know what
is mutilating these animals in their county. Remember, you can call in.
Call in right now, everybody, call in and ask your question about cattle
mutilations. The number six oh two two seven seven, five three six nine
or toll free one eight sixty six five three six eleven hundred. Don't be
afraid. Chuck's a really nice guy. And uh, that's probably why you
got to work with so many authorities. I checked. In fact, wasn't
it the authorities who plugged you in or tuned you in to the cases after
the durand mutilation? Yeah, Actually, the one of the brand inspectors tied
me in on a couple of cases and uh, and then uh, one
of the representatives from the Castila Sheriff's Department I was able to talk to,
tied me into into one. Actually, ill you know, but after the
fact, I think after the firm actually actually after Duran, the more and
more this information gets out, like on your radio show, in the in
the news, in the media, the more that people know who to contact.
Because basically, with the very last case that I called, you know,
I call the Air and Mutilation, you know, which is not the
real rancher's name. He just didn't want to have to deal with the media.
What happened was the case occurred, the sheriff's department came out, this
particular representative, sheriff's department didn't seem that interested, and so basically the rancher
himself started looking around for help. Gotcha, And that also happened with the
Manuel Sanchez case. Yeah, we do have a collar on the line.
So let's take this question from our caller real quick online when we've got Ted.
Are you there, Ted? Yeah, sure, Ted from Awatuk.
Yes, Sir, I was wondering how much the government involvement has it been
in some of these cases? And I'll hang up and listen. Okay,
great, thanks for the question. How much has the government been involved in
it? Yeah? That was a question, right, That's a good question.
That's something that we always ask ourselves too. I do know that out
of here in Colorado back in the eighties when they had a stringities cattle mulations
going on. Before that, all the all the lawn law enforcements all through
Colorado since and represented them down to the Saint Louis Valley on the weekend for
a quick cattle mutilation lecture. Wow, And it was pretty serious about that
back then. Uh So, you know, that's about close I can say
that the government's been involved. Now if you're thinking further, you know,
up the ladder, that's a that's a really good question. We have seen,
our witnesses have seen no military type individuals, military type vehicles in an
area where cattle mulations have occurred. That's not the case for you know,
the five that I did last year. But I personally believe that they know
what's going on, and at least I would hope that they It's interesting that
they wouldn't get very involved with this. Uh And I know, and and
then the question is are they the ones doing it? And I know some
of the famous mutilation that happen right near the San Luis Valley on the border
of New Mexico and Colorado at the Bacca Ranch. There's a sheriff there who's
looked into it, and he believes that these are being done by the military,
but who knows, huh, why would they do that? And if
it is being done by the military, then gifts in conjunction to militaries or
or they have their hands in it all over the world. I got an
email just well, I guess it was the end of last week about mutilations
in England. They've had tons of them. I've got emails from Canada,
Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Chile. You know, so these aren't just
happening in the United States and all. Matter of fact, last week got
pictures of a mutilation case in Kansas. Wows, just as recent as two
weeks ago, are these situations where certain organs were removed or like you had
found occasionally where you know, everything's gone the one in Kansas to within a
couple of weeks ago, it was pretty much everything. Wow, it was
a calf. So it almost seems like we're starting to see a pattern here
now with the larger animals they're going in and they're doing physical cuts. With
the smaller animals, they're just taking everything in the middle. One what's interesting
out of the two calves. The Miller Calf had its ears removed. I
mean, if you look at the pictures on my website, it's absolutely ridiculous.
Their ears are actually cut off. Yeah, obviously, you know,
unless we have a scavenger with a knife in his hand, you know that
he could use it and in opposable appendages to be able to hold it.
Yeah, you know. Got a couple of quick questions here too. Sorry,
work only got a few minutes left. So this personto asking if you
know if mutilations are in the increase since the seventies. You know, I
think what's happening is and that's a very good question. I think we're being
more it's being more talked about, and we're more aware of it, so
we're hearing more about it. Right, So we get a lot of UFO
studies out here in Colorado because it's so clear and there's not a lot of
life pollutions, so people have a tendencies seeing more. And I think that's
what the case is with the mutilations. Right. And then before you know,
I want to get into this before we're done, which is you getting
the University of Colorado or Colorado State University involved, which is really cool because
they're a great vet school, and how did they react when you ask them
to participate in investigating these It was really interesting when I first went down there
with some samples of the Duran and Miller and the Darren case was they were
confused. Originally there was a doctor there that had done lab analysis on back
in the eighties, but he is long retired, so they had a new
group of people in their and I had to sit down and basically I taught
a good hour and an hour and a half lecture actually did with the you
know, with the doctor there, and then you know, the interns that
she was teaching, and we did a lecture on it so we can get
them up to speech and what's going to run. And then ever since that
one, every relation case I've had, I contacted CSU and talked to my
representative then ask when they're advice of what samples to take if I need to
take samples, because basically you can take samples while you want, but unless
the lab has got the facilities to test for that particular sample and what you
want is it's kind of useless. Right. That's one thing I've learned in
this investigating. If you've got someone willing, and it's better to look for
someone willing and capable like of course a university vet or whoever to look at
these samples. Then you ask them prior to getting the samples, what's the
best way to collect them and where do I collect them? Because that way
you have the best samples available. And what they found in this case,
if I'm not correct, was interesting that in the Durand case that they couldn't
prove it wasn't predators. But they did find that the incisions were made after
the animal's death, so that these incisions weren't the cause of death, which
still is interesting. That is pretty interesting. You know, I reread that
report, you know, just recently because due to another show I was on
and I actually read it and I read into it again where I almost I
saw them contradicted themselves, a little bit of a little bit of confusion there,
you know, victory or post mortems and because there was there was no
hemorrhaging, you know, no evidence of hemorrhaging. Uh, it should have
if the animal was bleeding out when you know, when it cuts, they
would have been side of hemorrhaging. And in other cases they're going, well,
we don't there was no times well there was, well, we don't
know. So I would love to hope that the decisions were after the animal
was dead, just you know, just because I'd hate to see an animal
goes through all that agony of what happened. Right, Well, we found
another color. I think that's all we'll have time is to take this color
is called real quick and then we'll wrap up. But we got chuck online.
One another check and this one's from MASA check. Go ahead. How
are you guys doing today? Great? Thanks for calling. Find a question.
Now you say that the animals were dead before the incisions were made.
Were there any toxicology reports done to see if these animals might have been poisoned?
Another great question? And another a great question. I'll answer that real
quick. Well, what happened was this Originally? How how you test for
toxology? Uh, you would take in twitter organs and we found about We
found that about. So that's how the lap up after the fact. So
currently, what I'm working with the College a University is we get we get
a plant case that we're where it was been thirty six dollars because a lot
of that stuff will dissipate over a short period of fun and you'll lose the
evidence. So they've agreed that either we're going to send the representative down with
me and we'll do the property RD on site, or we're going to pick
the animal in the flatbed truck and haul this animal back to Fort Collins Force
csuis right. So that was a great question. Have to pick the organs?
Yeah, that's a good question. You have to take the organs.
Yeah, and that's the goal. That's what we're looking to do is get
that done so we can tell if there was any poisoning being done. But
we got to get the animal quicker. But we are out of time,
mister Zukowski. If you want to hear you guys more from Check. Yeah,
thanks check uh which check think both of our checks they were both great.
But you can see check at the UFO Congress and you can also meet
open Minds there. That's at Ufocongress dot com, which is a conference coming
up in just a couple of weeks. It goes like the week from the
twenty first to the twenty eighth, So come check us out there, check
us out. Next week, we're gonna have David Serta. He's in the
technology industry, and he got involved with UFO research when he found some NASA
footage that apparently has UFOs in it. He's gonna talk to us about that
and also his relationship with Dan Akroyd. He filmed a great documentary with Dan
Akroyd who talks for two hours on Akroyd's UFO research. He's really into this.
Thanks for listening to open Minds Radio. All of this can be found
at openminds dot tv. You can also get more information on advertising at open
Minds Radio. We're bringing the UFO subject into the light of day and we're
happy that you were here listening. Thank you, ele Gools