1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:07,200 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,759 --> 00:00:12,039 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,000 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,239 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,640 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,679 --> 00:00:28,440 with Kristin Dilley. My name is Kristin Dilley. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,519 --> 00:00:32,439 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:37,759 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,799 --> 00:00:48,359 in crime, Bill Thomas. Hey, it's Bill Thomas from mind over Murder. 10 00:00:48,679 --> 00:00:52,920 This is a special message for a couple the guy I met when we 11 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:58,759 were at Crime Con this past week. We met a couple from Virginia married 12 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,680 who had provided us with some confidential information in the Colonial Parkway murders, and 13 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:11,560 this message is for that couple. Please, it's imperative that we hear from 14 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,760 you as soon as possible. The information that you provided is quite important. 15 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,760 Quite frankly, I need to speak to you as soon as possible. I 16 00:01:21,799 --> 00:01:25,359 believe you have my contact information, but just in case you don't, please 17 00:01:25,359 --> 00:01:32,799 feel free to email us at Colonial Parkway Murderers at gmail dot com. That's 18 00:01:32,879 --> 00:01:40,280 Colonial Parkway Murders at gmail dot com. Please if you can contact me as 19 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:48,719 soon as possible, it's extremely important. Thanks as always. Welcome to Mind 20 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:53,640 over Murder. I'm Kristin Dilley and I'm Bill Thomas, and we're back for 21 00:01:53,680 --> 00:02:00,040 a record breaking fourth episode of Ask Us Anything, Colonial park Murderous Edition. 22 00:02:00,319 --> 00:02:06,599 My goodness, oh my gosh, and you're so chipper it's hard to quite 23 00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:10,800 understand it all. I'm trying very hard at the end of a very long 24 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:16,520 school day. So here we are and I'm putting best foot forward, baby, 25 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:23,039 because that's what we do. It totally works for me. I'm impressed. 26 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,599 Here we are, recording this on a Monday, getting way to head 27 00:02:27,599 --> 00:02:30,199 out to Crime Con at the end of this week, and just getting a 28 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:38,840 ton of stuff done. We're being really impossibly productive here is We're doing good 29 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,319 stuff, I think. So we're going to try so we have a couple 30 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,120 of questions to wrap up our original list, and then people keep asking things 31 00:02:46,319 --> 00:02:51,120 and of course if you ask, we will answer yes. So we have 32 00:02:51,159 --> 00:02:53,840 a couple of additionals. Let's go ahead and start with Julie. So. 33 00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:00,199 Julie C is a regular commenter and we love hearing from her. So Julie, 34 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,080 he says, I would like to know if the recent arrests for previously 35 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:08,479 older cases gives the families of the Colonial Parkway victims a little more hope that 36 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:13,599 science will eventually catch up with the perpetrator. If I can start, I 37 00:03:13,599 --> 00:03:16,840 would say, heck yeah. Someone mentioned to us the other day on social 38 00:03:16,879 --> 00:03:23,479 media they were wondering if we were ever upset when other cases are resolved and 39 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:29,719 offenders named, And nothing could be further from the truth. I think you 40 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,599 and I are usually so jazzed when we hear about an arrest made or an 41 00:03:34,599 --> 00:03:38,199 offender identified. In some cases they've passed on, but that's really exciting. 42 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:43,000 That actually gives us lots of hope. I think the person that asked the 43 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,319 question was wondering if we were saddened by it or made jealous or something along 44 00:03:47,319 --> 00:03:52,840 those lines, and we don't feel that way at all. Were thrilled to 45 00:03:52,879 --> 00:03:55,879 see cases moved forward, and it gives us lots of hope. What do 46 00:03:55,919 --> 00:04:00,919 you think? No, I agree, they're definitely when. I'll go, 47 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,039 oh, man, I can't wait for the day to come for the Colonial 48 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:09,319 Parkway murders, for that to happen for these families. But no, I 49 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:14,000 wouldn't say that we're ever disappointed or jealous or unhappy or anything like that, 50 00:04:14,039 --> 00:04:18,879 because it just means that it is slowly taking down the number of cold case 51 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:24,879 homicides in this country. We want that number to go down. We want 52 00:04:24,879 --> 00:04:29,439 it to go down because our cases solved one hundred percent. But anytime that 53 00:04:29,519 --> 00:04:33,040 a family receives answers and justice, not closure, because we know how we 54 00:04:33,079 --> 00:04:38,079 feel about that word. But anytime a family receives answers and justice in some 55 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,879 variety, that's a win for everybody. But I understand the question, and 56 00:04:42,879 --> 00:04:47,399 I appreciate the question. We've met a lot of people who have been through 57 00:04:47,399 --> 00:04:54,639 this experience. I often feel a real affinity for these people because we have 58 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,120 a sense of what they may have gone through because we've gone through something similar 59 00:04:58,199 --> 00:05:01,160 through our own losses. I'd be less than honest if I didn't say, 60 00:05:01,199 --> 00:05:05,680 when will it be our turn? Sometimes late at night and I'm tired and 61 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,519 I'm trying to fall asleep, and I'm thinking about the case and mind of 62 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,439 a murderer and the things we're working on, and I think we're still waiting 63 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:21,279 for answers yet, those news stories that we see and cases that are resolved, 64 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:27,759 it's like a moment of light where you think there's a lot of darkness 65 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:30,680 out there. There's two hundred and fifty thousand cold case homicides in the United 66 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:36,600 States. There are tens of thousands of unsolved rapes and sexual assaults across the 67 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:42,360 country, probably hundreds of thousands. Unfortunately, some of them might not be 68 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:47,759 resolved because they've passed the statute of limitations. But when a case is broken 69 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:55,000 like this, whether it's done through forensic, genetic genealogy, traditional police work, 70 00:05:55,360 --> 00:06:00,680 good old fashioned gumshoe detective work, whatever it is, or combination, 71 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,319 which is usually what happens, I find it energizing and I smile for a 72 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:09,120 moment, and I think about those people, some of whom we've met, 73 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:12,120 many of whom we have not yet met. But we're going to see more 74 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,639 people even this week at Crime Con and people actually have reached out to us 75 00:06:16,759 --> 00:06:23,040 specifically and asked if they might have a chance to meet with us. These 76 00:06:23,079 --> 00:06:27,680 are families of missing and murdered persons that want to spend a few minutes with 77 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,720 us. I know they'd like us to cover their case on Mind over Murder, 78 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,560 or help publicize their cases, or assist in any way that we can, 79 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:38,480 and we're happy to help in anyway that we can't. We can't cover 80 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,759 every case, but we can certainly offer our experience and maybe some hopefully worthwhile 81 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:49,199 advice. I'm flattered that someone would reach out to us before they see us 82 00:06:49,199 --> 00:06:55,040 at Crime con and saying I'd like to introduce myself when we're all there at 83 00:06:55,079 --> 00:07:00,439 this conference with five thousand plus people there, that they want to meet with 84 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,319 Kristen and Bill and talk about their case and ask whatever questions they're going to 85 00:07:04,399 --> 00:07:08,759 ask. That makes me feel good. That makes me feel like we're getting 86 00:07:08,879 --> 00:07:14,160 something worthwhile out of all of this. Yeah, I agree. I'm curious 87 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:17,079 a Bill, does that sense of when is it our turn? Does that 88 00:07:17,199 --> 00:07:25,920 get stronger around anniversaries because we are headed pretty solidly into anniversary territory. It 89 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,240 absolutely does. I was thinking about it today. I had to do a 90 00:07:30,279 --> 00:07:34,519 dog food run to Litchfield, Connecticut, which is about half an hour away, 91 00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:39,079 and it's a beautiful drive, and so I'm driving along and I've got 92 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,600 music on the audio system, and on the way back, I was listening 93 00:07:43,639 --> 00:07:48,279 to a dar Williams album. She's a singer songwriter from the Northeast here and 94 00:07:48,439 --> 00:07:51,920 the album is called End of the Summer, and I deliberately chose it because 95 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:59,319 today was a gray, rainy, cool day here in Connecticut. She sings 96 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,040 about the to the summer and a number of other topics, but that's the 97 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,480 name of the album. And yeah, October from me, which is the 98 00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:13,680 anniversary of Kathy and Becky's death and very close to the anniversary of three of 99 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:18,279 the four incidents in the Colonial Parkway murders. Yeah, it always resonates with 100 00:08:18,279 --> 00:08:22,439 me. This six week period between Labor Day and Columbus Day is real hard. 101 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:30,279 We're always thrilled when someone else gets that chance at answers and justice and 102 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:33,159 just knowing, because I'm sure that sense of knowing is going to be a 103 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:39,200 relief. And I'm looking forward to the day when I'm always hoping that if 104 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,559 I get a call mid day from you, I'm always hoping that it's going 105 00:08:41,639 --> 00:08:46,320 to be the call of you saying, oh my god, I just heard 106 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,080 from the FBI. They did it, They got it. We have a 107 00:08:48,159 --> 00:08:52,600 suspect. There's been an arrest. Like every time I see something come up, 108 00:08:52,639 --> 00:08:54,559 I'm always like, is this going to be the day? Is this 109 00:08:54,639 --> 00:09:00,559 gonna be it? That's sorry, No, it's not because I'm really looking 110 00:09:00,639 --> 00:09:03,279 forward to that day and I have no doubt that it will happen at some 111 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,320 point or another. Is it going to be next week, next month, 112 00:09:07,399 --> 00:09:11,519 next year, I don't know, but in the order of things, I 113 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,720 have to believe that there will be answers at some point or another. I 114 00:09:15,759 --> 00:09:20,039 just have to because I don't want to live my life thinking about a world 115 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:24,639 in which there isn't answers for this. It's a solvable case. We have 116 00:09:24,919 --> 00:09:28,840 all of the things that we need to solve it. I have to have 117 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,679 faith that it's going to get solved in our lifetimes. I don't want to 118 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,720 put forth into the university idea that eventually it won't that it won't, because 119 00:09:35,759 --> 00:09:39,120 that would just be that would be bad. I don't want to do that. 120 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,559 So I'm going to choose to project optimism. I think that's a good 121 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:50,159 thing. I feel that way most days this timeframe, this September October timeframe 122 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,639 is always difficult for me because it means that very soon another year will have 123 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,639 ticked by and we still don't have answers in the Colonial Parkway mers. And 124 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,080 that's disturbing. Now I'm sure that it is. No, it's a great 125 00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:07,039 question, Julie. I think so too. Let me just add as an 126 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,159 aside, I spoke to a friend of ours, Keith, today, who 127 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:16,480 is a big supporter of us in looking for answers in the Colonial Parkway murders. 128 00:10:16,519 --> 00:10:20,120 And he's a really smart guy. He's got a lot of interesting ideas. 129 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:24,559 I don't agree with all of his theories, but at the same time, 130 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,080 he has spent a tremendous amount of time on the Colonial Parkway murders. 131 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,639 He lives in Virginia, knows the territory, and knows these cases very well. 132 00:10:31,879 --> 00:10:37,279 And he's often very challenging, and I mean that in a good natured 133 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:43,480 way, challenging of my suppositions and assumptions and that sort of thing. And 134 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:48,960 that's probably good to hear. But we had a fantastic, wide ranging conversation 135 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:54,120 earlier today and he's got me thinking about a lot of things. I also 136 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,639 briefed him on what we've heard recently. That part was discouraging because we're not 137 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:03,159 really hearing anything concrete. As a matter of fact, we're hearing like virtually 138 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:09,240 nothing, and that's very frustrating. As we've talked about before, the FBI 139 00:11:09,279 --> 00:11:13,200 and the Virginia's Day Police are very interested in asking questions. They're not very 140 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:18,960 interested in answering questions. You would wish that it would be a little bit 141 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:26,440 more information forthcoming from the investigators. Let's move on to another question. This 142 00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:31,279 is from Dwight h and Dwight asks, I'm interested in the two books you 143 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:41,879 are both writing. This is a frustration. You want to go first or 144 00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:46,240 second? Sure? Pretty much. The short answer on the book that I'm 145 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:52,600 working on is that I am a full time teacher and now full time podcaster. 146 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,559 I'm not working on a book right at the moment because I do not 147 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:01,799 have enough hours in the day. Unless I can obtain a time turner rated 148 00:12:01,799 --> 00:12:05,279 out of the pages of Harry Potter novel Sopfully, people will know what I'm 149 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,320 talking about. I do not have enough time and energy to be able to 150 00:12:09,399 --> 00:12:15,519 work on my book. I wish that I was as prolific as our friend 151 00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:20,039 Katherine Ramsland. Katherine is amazing and she's managed to crank out seventy books. 152 00:12:20,279 --> 00:12:26,080 I can't even seem to get this one off the ground. It is not 153 00:12:26,279 --> 00:12:31,279 currently something that I'm working on. However, the original conceit, which is 154 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:37,120 what actually got Bill on my radar and what ultimately put me on his, 155 00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:45,360 is the idea of an exploration of what the family members of murder victims go 156 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,639 through. I was going to call it Battle Scars, and I still am, 157 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,679 like I have a manuscript, it just hadn't been worked on in a 158 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:58,399 while. But the concept behind Battle Scars is what is the experience of people 159 00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:03,080 who have lived through an enormous loss like this? And I started with the 160 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:11,399 story of my own friend who I lost to homicide. I interviewed her daughter 161 00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:16,480 and we really worked through the process about what it was like to lose her 162 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,080 and what it was like in the aftermath. And when I had gone through 163 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:28,440 that experience and I wrote a successful chapter, I figured, Okay, I 164 00:13:28,519 --> 00:13:31,960 had a whole list of other people that I really wanted to dig into their 165 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,159 experience on dealing with the violent crime and loss. But because the Colonial Parkway 166 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,759 murders cases were so near and dear and important to me. I decided that 167 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,000 before I tackle anything else i've dealt with the crime that has impacted me most, 168 00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:50,440 let me reach out and see what's happening with the Colonial Parkway murders families. 169 00:13:52,279 --> 00:13:56,399 After doing some research, I found this guy named Bill Thomas, whose 170 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,720 name was just all over all the reporting for the Colonial Parkway murders and every 171 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:07,440 time that I found something online there he is Bill Thomas, brother of Kathy 172 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,799 Thomas. I thought, okay, let's reach out to this guy and see 173 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,879 what he's all about. I remember reaching out to Bill and being put through 174 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:22,200 quite an intensive background conversation in which he grilled me about what is your interest 175 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,679 in this case? Do you know something like why are you writing this book? 176 00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:30,000 What's up? How long did it take you to realize, Okay, 177 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,279 she's not full of shit and she's not a murder weirdo or anything like that. 178 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,639 I feel like it took about an hour and a half. Was it 179 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,120 about that long or not as much? I estimated it was one hundred and 180 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:46,080 twenty seven hours of intensive grilling over a three week period, but perhaps I'm 181 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,039 wrong. I feel like it was about an hour and a half into our 182 00:14:50,039 --> 00:14:54,279 first conversation which was about like two two and a half hours long, and 183 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,519 because we were talking and you had said, all of this is off the 184 00:14:58,559 --> 00:15:03,360 record, and so for the first ninety minutes I was not taking notes or 185 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,519 anything like that because you said it's all off the record. And then after 186 00:15:05,559 --> 00:15:09,200 about ninety minutes you were like, Okay, now I'm willing to talk to 187 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,000 you on the record, And then I sat down and started typing out notes 188 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:18,039 as we were discussing. Did we do it all at once or did we 189 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,960 circle back and talk a second time? Oh, we talked a bunch of 190 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,399 times. I was actually going back the other day just to see, like, 191 00:15:24,559 --> 00:15:28,039 how many note taking sessions do I have from phone calls with Bill? 192 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:33,039 And I stopped taking extensive, copious notes after six phone calls, and I 193 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,480 started just jotting things down in a notebook like you do, Like I stopped 194 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,000 sitting there and typing things. I think it was after maybe five six phone 195 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:46,879 calls that we realized there's some really good information here and we should share information 196 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:50,519 and talk. And I think probably somewhere in there you must have figured that 197 00:15:50,559 --> 00:15:54,440 you could trust me, and we just developed this friendship which has led to 198 00:15:54,519 --> 00:15:58,559 this partnership. So the book is on hold. Battle Scars is on hold, 199 00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:02,200 but it is something that I want to come back to because I think 200 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,159 it is worthwhile. As I said, until such time as I don't teach 201 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,480 full time, or until I have a time turner to help me better manage 202 00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:12,039 my time. It's going to be on the back burner for a little bit, 203 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,679 the idea of a time turner, and I could use one of those 204 00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:18,639 two if there, Oh my gosh, could we both for me? The 205 00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:22,679 Clonial Parkway Murders book is something I had put aside for a while, and 206 00:16:22,759 --> 00:16:27,960 now I've been thinking pretty intensively about going back and working on finishing that. 207 00:16:29,399 --> 00:16:33,279 It's in manuscript form. I've shown it to some people. The feedback was 208 00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:37,039 very good. The feedback from a couple of years ago when I wrote the 209 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:42,840 book was this would be better. This is agents and publishers and book publishing 210 00:16:42,879 --> 00:16:47,519 can be as cynical a business as any. There was some feedback, we 211 00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:49,519 think you're a terrific writer. This is a very compelling story. It would 212 00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:56,120 be stronger if there were a happy ending. They actually said that, I 213 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,360 remember you saying that, and I think it screamed yeah, w yeah. 214 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:03,639 For something like that. Yeah, my life would be better if there was 215 00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:08,319 a happy thing too. But I am thinking seriously about going back now and 216 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,799 starting to fill in some blanks and if anything, it's far too long, 217 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:18,359 there's too much information. I've been asked to take a look at a couple 218 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,160 of things and I will circle back on those elements that were pointed out to 219 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,279 me that they thought needed additional work. It's a work in progress and it's 220 00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:32,640 definitely something that I will be revisiting in the coming months. Like you, 221 00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:37,839 Kristen, it's a matter of time and budgeting schedules and just working it all 222 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:44,000 out with life and the podcast and running your airbnb. Yeah, all the 223 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,839 other aspects of living a life. It's definitely something that is in the works. 224 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,960 So we shall see. Dwight, it's a great question, and the 225 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:56,519 only frustration is just that we would both like to move our respective projects forward, 226 00:17:56,559 --> 00:18:00,039 and then we've also talked about doing some things together. Yeah, we've 227 00:18:00,039 --> 00:18:03,400 got to figure out how to be as efficient as Katherine Ramsland and some of 228 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,279 these other writers that we know. Casey Sherman just wrote another book. He 229 00:18:07,319 --> 00:18:11,079 seems to be writing about it a book a year, which is damn impressive. 230 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:17,759 It really is. And then Katherine Ramslin has written probably two books a 231 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:23,119 year. It's crazy for years because she's on her seventieth book now. I'm 232 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:29,039 really I'm wondering how some of these people sleep or if they sleep, because 233 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,559 I only have so many hours in my day and I try to only spend 234 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:37,920 a minimal amount necessary to sleep. But gosh, I'm in awe of people 235 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,240 who can just crank out the work like that. I don't know about you, 236 00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:47,640 Bill, does the writing come easy to you or is it something that 237 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:52,759 you feel like you really have to spend time ruminating and going over it. 238 00:18:52,839 --> 00:18:55,920 And I don't know if you're the sort of person who edits as they go, 239 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,480 You're really not supposed to do that, but I do because I'm a 240 00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:02,160 total sta learn a perfectionist, so I edit as I go, and I'll 241 00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:04,440 edit at nauseum. And they say, you're not supposed to do that. 242 00:19:04,759 --> 00:19:10,880 I know, and yet I don't usually have difficulty with the writing. It's 243 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,880 finding the time to write. Yeah, So obviously we need to figure out 244 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,519 a way to make that a higher priority. Speaking of things that are important 245 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:25,200 that are also time consuming, we have this memorial coming up for Keith Call, 246 00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:30,240 which is going to be Saturday, October fourteenth, twenty twenty three, 247 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:36,680 at two pm at the Rosewell Cemetery on Providence Road in Hayes, Virginia. 248 00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:40,720 We've got a whole bunch of very interesting people who are going to be speaking 249 00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:45,480 at this thing, and that's something that you and I both are working on. 250 00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:49,480 What is it we want to say? Yeah, at this upcoming event, 251 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,319 we're not going to be giving marathon speeches, but you've got a whole 252 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:56,319 bunch of interesting people that are speaking. Blaine Pardo, who's the author of 253 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,000 a Special Kind of Evil, the book about the Colonial Park murders. I'm 254 00:20:00,039 --> 00:20:07,079 speaking, Kristen speaking. Andy Fox from w a By TV ten, longtime 255 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,599 television reporter in the market, is speaking, as well as members of the 256 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:15,799 Call family, Joyce, Chris, Doug, Stephen and their aunt Lou Call. 257 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,160 A number of people are going to be speaking and we all have to 258 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,920 be thinking about what we want to say, how we want to convey our 259 00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:26,400 positive, good thoughts about Keith and the life that he lived which was cut 260 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:33,559 far too short. And then to acknowledge the Cumberland Historic Cemetery Organization or sponsors 261 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:37,319 of this thing and We're kind enough to approach the Call family with this idea 262 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,119 of a memorial stone for Keith. But that's yet another thing I'm thinking about, 263 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,480 which is I'm going to be in Virginia in a couple of weeks, 264 00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:48,480 and I've got to plan that trip, and Kristin you and I have to 265 00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:52,279 figure out what do we want to try to accomplish when we're both in the 266 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:55,480 same place. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out, like, who else 267 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,200 do I want to meet with while I'm there. There's always new things. 268 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,680 This is an exciting opportunity to acknowledge Keith's life, and at the same time, 269 00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:08,079 it's something I have to start planning for almost immediately when we get back 270 00:21:08,079 --> 00:21:11,519 from Crime Con. So, yeah, there's always something. I don't know 271 00:21:11,559 --> 00:21:15,160 if you're like me in the sense that a lot of times when I'm trying 272 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,920 to wake up and get my brain activated in the morning, I'll start writing 273 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,680 things in my head. Like I've done that since I was a kid. 274 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,359 I've always been a writer, and I'll write out whatever it is I happen 275 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,039 to be working on, whether it's a short story or a screenplay or something 276 00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:33,480 like that. And so the last couple of days. I've written really great 277 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,559 versions of this speech that I'm going to be giving at the whole memorial in 278 00:21:37,599 --> 00:21:41,119 the shower, and I get out of it and I'm like, I don't 279 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,200 have time to write this down, damn it. Let me try to remember 280 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,079 the best parts of it, seal it away, and then when I have 281 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:48,759 time a little bit later, I can sit down and write it. But 282 00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:52,960 I've written like three versions and they've all been wonderful, and I have got 283 00:21:52,039 --> 00:21:56,319 none of them done on paper. There is your phone. If your phone 284 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:02,559 has that feature where you can record into your phone. It doesn't, unfortunately, 285 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,680 So I keep rewriting and writing and rewriting this speech. I just need 286 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,000 to actually sit down and type it on the paper or type it into a 287 00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:12,680 computer screen. Of course, because I also have students who are asking me 288 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,440 for letters of recommendation, I'm alternating back and forth between I got to write 289 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,079 a letter for this kid, and it was a speech for this thing. 290 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,920 I've got a screenplay that I'm working on. I got another thing. It's 291 00:22:23,039 --> 00:22:26,960 chaos. Honestly, my brain has so many tabs open I don't know how 292 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:33,400 I can continue to function. It's funny that you're using a computer metaphor in 293 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,440 terms of describing your own brain. Hey, it's what it feels like. 294 00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:41,319 And every teacher will tell you they have six hundred tabs open at any one 295 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,799 time, and no one knows where the music is coming from. Yeah, 296 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,079 you got to close that window in order to get the music. This step. 297 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,680 You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word 298 00:22:53,720 --> 00:23:07,640 from our sponsors. We're back here at Mind over Murder. Our next question 299 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:12,160 is it's from our friend Jason. Jason is the host of the Santa Maybe 300 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:18,480 podcast, which I believe you had something to do with, mister Thomas. 301 00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:25,200 I voiced a bad guy in one of the latest episodes of Santa Maybe, 302 00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:29,200 and I was very proud Originally when I saw Jason when we were down in 303 00:23:29,319 --> 00:23:32,680 Savannah, he told me he thought I was going to play an elf, 304 00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:36,279 and I was really excited about that, because guy, I picture myself. 305 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,960 I maybe six feet tall, but I think of myself and elphin terms, 306 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,960 so I was really excited about that. And then the elephant thing fell out 307 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,799 for some reason. But then he told me he wanted me to play a 308 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:52,440 sleazy bad guy, and I thought I can be down with that bad guess 309 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,720 I could do. Sleazy Bad Guy was sort of a touch of Las Vegas, 310 00:23:56,039 --> 00:24:00,519 and I had a good time. It was really fun. Again. 311 00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:03,359 It was one of those things where Jason got after me because he was like, 312 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,279 I really need those parts that you're going to be recording, and of 313 00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:08,160 course I was busy with other things, and he said, I gotta have 314 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,119 these by the end of the week, and so I thought, okay, 315 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,279 I can deal with the deadline. When I finally got into it and recorded 316 00:24:14,319 --> 00:24:18,200 the parts, it was actually really fun. Oh my gosh, I was 317 00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:22,599 part of Santa Maybe. Yes, yes, Santa Maybe. It's very funny. 318 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:26,160 Everybody should give it a listen. Jason, true to form in the 319 00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:30,160 Christmas Elf Spirit, asks what are your favorite Christmas traditions or movies? Because 320 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,119 remember we did say you could ask us anything. Jason asks what are our 321 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:40,279 favorite Christmas traditions or movies? Leave it to Jason not to ask a Colonial 322 00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:45,160 Parkway murders question. We did say ask us anything, so he took us 323 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,359 off on it. All right, that's true. So, Kristen, what 324 00:24:48,519 --> 00:24:55,000 are your favorite Christmas traditions or Okay, so I'll do I'm going to mention 325 00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:59,200 two things. So the first thing, it is our family tradition, and 326 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,039 I have to say I need to give my parents real props here for this. 327 00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:07,359 My parents divorced when I was maybe eleven or twelve years old, maybe 328 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,440 a little bit younger than that, I can't remember. But my parents have 329 00:25:10,519 --> 00:25:15,880 always remained amazing friends, like really good friends. I never saw them fight, 330 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,920 I never saw them argue, like they just can't inhabit the same space. 331 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,640 But my parents are wonderful to each other. And so our Christmas tradition 332 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,200 for years and years, no matter how big or small our family has gotten 333 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,400 is that we all have Christmas Breakfast at my mom's house. Everybody shows my 334 00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:37,200 dad has dishes that he makes, my mom has dishes that she makes, 335 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,359 and now my stepdad has dishes that he makes, and we all have Christmas 336 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,480 Breakfast at my parents house. And I love the fact that even after the 337 00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:51,480 divorce, my parents have never they never hesitated to be like we are still 338 00:25:51,519 --> 00:25:56,279 having family Christmas. I was never the divorced kid that had Christmas with Mom 339 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:02,039 Christmas with Dad, and I'm overwhelmed and enjoyed by that. So I would 340 00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:07,079 say probably my favorite Christmas tradition in the family venue is we all have breakfast 341 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:10,640 together on Christmas Day. Oh, I think that's great. I love the 342 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,680 fact that your parents birth parents, and then your mom remarried, yes, 343 00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:18,440 and your step dad and they're all there. I think it's great. I 344 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,039 think that sounds like a situation where your family, if anything, has expanded 345 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:29,000 and everybody does their absolute best to get along and show some Christmas spirit. 346 00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:32,640 I think that's lovely. Well on, step Dad and my dad get along 347 00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:37,200 like a house on fire. They're really really good friends. So yeah, 348 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:41,240 there's never been any nobody, there's no tension there. Dad and Don are 349 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,759 just they're good buds and they'll just sit there and watch Fox News together. 350 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:52,039 They'll talk about produce or whatever, construction projects like. They get along so 351 00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:55,759 well. So it's never been a question of it's weird because step Dad is 352 00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:57,319 there, Like, it's better because step Dad is there well, And your 353 00:26:57,319 --> 00:27:03,279 mom's even mentioned how goofy it is that the two of ever such good friends. 354 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,480 She's gonna kill me for saying this, but she's never gonna know. 355 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,200 She doesn't listen to the podcast. She told me one day she went with 356 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,599 my dad to a doctor's appointment. The other day because I wasn't able to 357 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,920 this is her ex husband? Now, yes, is my ex husband. 358 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,960 My mom goes with my dad to his doctor's appointments. And she texted me 359 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,279 and she said, I feel like I'm starring at a sitcom called My True 360 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:34,119 Husbands. Oh this is too funny. I love it. But it's been 361 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,680 so good to have parents that are so supportive of each other. And after 362 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,559 my dad's cancer surgery five years ago, yeah, my stepdad was just my 363 00:27:42,599 --> 00:27:47,319 stepdad was there. He was helping take care of him. It was It's 364 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,759 amazing. My family has always been very supportive of each other and I'm proud 365 00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:55,319 of my parents for that, and it's been really good for me to have 366 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,440 that. So I appreciate that. And then actually I have a school related 367 00:27:59,519 --> 00:28:03,799 Christmas tradition too, sure, and that is Over the last couple of years, 368 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:11,440 the Student Government Association, the SGA has sponsored a holiday door decorating contest. 369 00:28:12,079 --> 00:28:17,160 You have to decorate your classroom door. You don't have to. It's 370 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,680 a thing that you can do, but most people do. And your door 371 00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:23,599 has to be decorated like according to a theme that they set, but also 372 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:29,519 according to your academic area. For me, because I'm lucky enough to teach 373 00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:33,680 both English and film. My door can either be English related or it can 374 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:38,200 be film related. And so the last couple of years, my two A 375 00:28:38,319 --> 00:28:44,920 B Film class has decorated the door and they have done an amazing bang up 376 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,799 job finding a way to tie in Christmas movies into the door, and it's 377 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:55,680 just been it's been tremendous fun. I love doing the door decorating contest with 378 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,920 my kids because if you just tell them, hey, here's a project, 379 00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:02,960 let's figure out how to do it, it takes them like a couple of 380 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,200 tries to figure out, how are we going to work together, and how 381 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,039 are we going to delegate and what are we going to do. Give a 382 00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:11,359 group of teenagers a chance to do something cool and they'll do it. In 383 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,039 most cases, they'll do it really well. I've enjoyed that door decorating Christmas 384 00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:19,079 tradition, and of course it's a holiday tradition. You don't have to do 385 00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:22,599 a Christmas store, so it's really neat and it's something that's a lot of 386 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,480 fun that we do during the school year. So those are my Christmas traditions. 387 00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:32,039 What are yours? We moved around every two years when we were kids, 388 00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:36,400 because my dad was an able officer. What I loved about our Christmas 389 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,400 traditions is they were audible. We moved every two years, and we lived 390 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:42,759 in a lot of places. And this is a long time ago. Now, 391 00:29:42,799 --> 00:29:47,359 this is in the sixties. I couldn't get a Christmas tree, and 392 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,799 a lot of places we lived. We lived in Hawaii, California, and 393 00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:55,319 New Mexico, wherever the Navy sent my father. And so we had this 394 00:29:55,799 --> 00:30:00,960 great, very nineteen sixties Christmas tree. It was silver, We had green 395 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,440 Christmas balls on it, green glass balls on it, and there was a 396 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,920 color wheel at the bottom which you placed in the corner and it rotated and 397 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,720 had four colors on it, so the tree would turn yellow and then red 398 00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:22,079 and green and blue. Very nineteen sixties, and much later when my dad 399 00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:26,119 retired from the Navy and became a college professor and we moved back to Massachusetts, 400 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,920 then you can get a Christmas tree every single year. And we even 401 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,440 got some trees with a root ball in them, and one of them was 402 00:30:33,519 --> 00:30:37,680 named Grover for some reason, at which we later planted in the yard. 403 00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:41,839 The following spring grew to be quite big and tall. In the side yard. 404 00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:45,359 We had so much fun as kids. There were four kids in my 405 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,599 family. Sometimes my dad was away for Christmas, but most times the Navy 406 00:30:49,599 --> 00:30:53,079 would try to get him home and the people aboard his ship would be home 407 00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:57,599 for Christmas. And we had a wonderful tradition where we would open one present 408 00:30:57,839 --> 00:31:02,279 on Christmas Eve before we went to a lot of times we went to midnight 409 00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:07,960 Mass, so we would open one present on Christmas Eve. It was supposed 410 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:14,720 to tamp down the excitement of four kids, and Christmas morning was all the 411 00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:18,759 way to the next day. So it started out as let's open one present 412 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:22,960 and that'll reduce the hysteria. And then somehow, as we got to be 413 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,319 a little bit older into our teen years, the idea of let's open more 414 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:34,480 Christmas presents on Christmas Eve and less presents in the morning. So the Christmas 415 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:41,039 Eve thing grew and grew, because teenagers want to sleep in on Christmas morning, 416 00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:45,920 especially if you've been at midnight Mass and then maybe went out with your 417 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:52,519 friends afterwards, or went back home and had delicious baked goods till all hours 418 00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:56,640 of the night. So that meant that everybody could sleep in a little bit 419 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,400 on Christmas morning, and then in more recent years, Hamil and I have 420 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,599 it's the two of us, and we often see my son Chris, who's 421 00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:07,799 in law school now at Christmas. We try to a lot of times it's 422 00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:12,599 just the two of us and the dog. We've actually been developing some new 423 00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:16,160 Christmas traditions. We both love Christmas music, so we play Christmas music for 424 00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:22,960 certainly from Thanksgiving on. I refuse to listen to it before Thanksgiving. I 425 00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:29,720 get very frustrated when I see holiday decorations and advertisements before each holiday has gone 426 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,759 by. I think we should celebrate each holiday in its own month. I 427 00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:36,599 don't think we need to expand the holidays so that they're like three months long. 428 00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:39,920 We also been playing around with the new thing, which is looking for 429 00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:46,640 fun new Christmas movies. Okay, every one per night, for every night 430 00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:51,279 in December. I gotta tell you, the Hallmark Channel has a lot of 431 00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:54,160 those. They do. Some of them are good and some of them are 432 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:59,200 like And then of course Love actually always has to be in the mix there, 433 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,440 which is one of our favorites. I don't know if you're familiar with 434 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,839 the movie or not. It's I am, but I've never actually watched it. 435 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,400 Oh, we actually I strongly recommend it. It's one of our absolute 436 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,319 favorites. Oh but here's the ultimate question. When it comes to Christmas movies. 437 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:21,960 It's Diehard a Christmas movie? Not in my opinion, but I know 438 00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:27,960 other people that feel very strongly that die Hard is actually Christmas movie. Oh 439 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,119 my goodness. Yeah. We had a vociferous argument in film class last year 440 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,880 as to whether or not die Hard was a Christmas movie, and more people 441 00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:39,920 came down on yes it is than no it isn't. So we had to 442 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:45,240 include it on the Christmas door somewhere. When it was Christmas film movies, 443 00:33:45,279 --> 00:33:46,960 it had to show up on the door. When you were talking about the 444 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,720 deck riding the doors, I thought to myself, how much you want to 445 00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:53,599 get die Hard is one of the films pictured on your door? Yes? 446 00:33:54,079 --> 00:33:58,799 Absolutely, And we try to make sure that we were representative of all holidays. 447 00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:02,519 So there was sure that Eight Crazy Nights was on there and various other 448 00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:07,559 things as well. But yeah, Diehard was on the door last year for 449 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,719 sure. So on a more serious note, I think we have a few 450 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:15,079 more Colonial Parkway questions. Yes we do, and some of these are great 451 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:19,960 questions. For some of them, we just don't have answers. We want 452 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,519 to have answers, but we do not have them currently. For example, 453 00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:28,119 let's deal with this question from David. He's so thoughtful, he's clearly always 454 00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:30,840 thinking of this case, and I appreciate this question. I do not have 455 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:37,079 any research to back this up whatsoever, but I hope somebody will. So 456 00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:40,679 if anybody out here wants to do the research to answer David's question, please 457 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,360 do And what is it? So? The question from David is how many 458 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:52,119 unsolved homicides are there from the respective jurisdictions during the general time frame of these 459 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:59,159 cases, as in Virginia, this region of Virginia, national parks in Virginia, 460 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,400 et c. How many involved double homicides, how many missing people from 461 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,719 that timeframe. I am just curious and thought someone may have some statistics in 462 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,079 general, what percent of homicides were solved in Virginia during that time. I 463 00:35:12,119 --> 00:35:15,760 love these numbers. I love doing data analysis, but I don't have that 464 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,199 information at Bill. I don't think you'd do either, but if you do, 465 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,840 let me know, I think a lot of it. We're not going 466 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:28,000 to be able to answer David the double homicides thing. I think we can, 467 00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:32,360 which is double homicides are actually pretty rare, and the investigators from the 468 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,280 FBI and the Virginia State Police have told us so and said so directly. 469 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:43,000 They have said things like double homicides are rare, lovers lane murders are rare. 470 00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:49,920 They did look at other double homicides and other lovers lane murders in that 471 00:35:50,119 --> 00:35:54,679 nineteen eighty six to nineteen ninety or so timeframe. I distinctly remember a case 472 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,639 in Houston, Texas involving the murder of a couple that took place, I 473 00:35:59,679 --> 00:36:01,800 want to say, in nineteen ninety and they took a real hard look at 474 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,920 that case. I'm talking about the FBI now, and I'll answer the question 475 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,679 as best I can. I think there are dozens of other unsolved homicides in 476 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:16,039 the area that is the Tidewater area of Virginia as it's referred to, during 477 00:36:16,119 --> 00:36:22,079 that same time frame, and I think many of them remain unsolved. I 478 00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:25,960 don't know if I can provide any kind of statistical analysis about that. However, 479 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,199 it would be interesting, though, to see if there is someone out 480 00:36:30,199 --> 00:36:34,639 there who could run those numbers. I'm actually I'm wondering if Thomas Hargrove would 481 00:36:34,639 --> 00:36:38,400 have any insight on that interesting conversation to have with Thomas Hargrove from the Murder 482 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:45,039 Accountability Project. I think so this question from Virginia. Did you learn anything 483 00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:50,719 important or significant from the Lovers Lane docu series that surprised you? One thing 484 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:57,760 that was very interesting is remember we had two principal investigators, and our two 485 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:05,199 principal investigators came down in precisely opposite ways. That is because Lonnie said one 486 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:09,119 thing, Maureen said the other. You may recall that our former prosecutor, 487 00:37:09,199 --> 00:37:15,079 Lonnie Coombs felt that the four incidents and the Colonial Parkway murders were not all 488 00:37:15,159 --> 00:37:22,159 related, whereas Maureen O'Connell, our former FBI agent, felt that the four 489 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:29,000 delbahomicides and the Colonial Parkway murders were all related. So here's two brilliant people. 490 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,840 They're coming at this from two different perspectives, but they are sharing the 491 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:37,519 same information and kind of debating on camera and off what their views were. 492 00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:42,119 By the end of the series, Lonnie feels they are not all related. 493 00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:46,400 Maureene feels that they are. And I respect both of them immensely. Either 494 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:51,159 one could be correct. I thought that was very interesting as well, and 495 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,440 I was a little surprised that they were not in lockstep on it, but 496 00:37:54,559 --> 00:38:00,760 I'm glad that they weren't. In terms of were their new realizations for us, 497 00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:02,639 I didn't feel like there were, just because we know the case so 498 00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:07,599 well inside and out at this point, and we had shot the show once 499 00:38:07,679 --> 00:38:12,800 already, so I didn't learn anything that I did not already know in terms 500 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,559 of subject matter and facts and things like that. The wild cards, as 501 00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:21,480 you mentioned, Bill, were how were our subject matter experts going to come 502 00:38:21,519 --> 00:38:25,639 down on it? I do remember, really I don't know if enjoy is 503 00:38:25,679 --> 00:38:30,400 the word, but I found it illuminating to watch the reenactments that they were 504 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:37,039 putting together of what might have happened at Kathy and Becky's murder scene, for 505 00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:38,960 example, Because I ended up being able. That was one of the nights 506 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,960 that I was able to get to the shoot after a day at work, 507 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,480 And it was actually one of those nights that I remember thinking I very much 508 00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:49,719 not only wanted to be there, but I needed to be there because I 509 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,079 wanted to make sure. I was worried about you watching your sister be reenacted 510 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,159 murder being re enacted, So I remember thinking that I wanted to be there 511 00:38:57,199 --> 00:38:59,960 to be a support for you in case you needed it. But I remember 512 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,480 remember watching that and thinking, this is really interesting watching how someone like Jim 513 00:39:04,519 --> 00:39:08,639 Clementi and Marin O'Connell and Lonnie Coombs go through and like how they watching them 514 00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:13,480 deconstruct the process was really interesting to me. Yeah, I sel the same 515 00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:17,199 way a lot of the behind the scenes of shooting a TV series. That 516 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,280 was the most interesting stuff to me. I also really enjoyed, both on 517 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:29,159 and off camera, the observations and the really fascinating analysis by Jim Clementi as 518 00:39:29,199 --> 00:39:34,480 a former FBI profiler and by doctor Laura Pettler as a crime scene investigator. 519 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:39,800 Those observations were so fascinating and it was a real privilege to be around those 520 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,440 four people, all of whom were so smart and so interesting, and to 521 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,800 hear their real time observations about what they were seeing and they were watching the 522 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,960 re enactments and they're looking for information, and doctor Petler had brought in crime 523 00:39:54,000 --> 00:40:00,719 scene photographs and other analysis which allowed them to recreate the crime scene as closely 524 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,119 as they could, and that part I found very interesting. I don't know 525 00:40:04,159 --> 00:40:09,000 if there were things that I necessarily learned about the cases but their analysis was 526 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,480 very interesting and thought provoking. I agree. So this one's from Virginia. 527 00:40:15,199 --> 00:40:17,760 She said, I would love to know the probability of so many people murdered 528 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,320 that had a connection to liberty If any quantsice that means math person, please 529 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,880 give us the likelihood of that. And she says to Bill and Kristen, 530 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,440 on a one to ten, lowest to highest scale, what do you think 531 00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:34,800 is the likelihood that there's a connection to at least one of the couple's murdered. 532 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:40,519 We know for certain there is a connection in the Liberty Security example to 533 00:40:42,039 --> 00:40:46,360 both Brian Pettinger and Lorian Powell separate incidents. But there's two people that worked 534 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:52,840 directly for Liberty Security that were murdered. So that's a ten for each of 535 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,920 them. For the Colonial Parkway murders themselves, I think we're looking at probably 536 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,840 in eight. I think there's a really good chance that the murder of Robin 537 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:08,360 Edwards and David Nobbling and maybe Keith call it to Sandra Haley are all related 538 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,000 to Liberty Security. I would say it has to be an eight. But 539 00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:15,199 feel free to disagree with me, Kristen, No, I do agree with 540 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:22,000 you. I definitely think that to rework the succession of related cases together. 541 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,679 I think that Anna, Maria and Daniel eventually are going to follow at the 542 00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:30,199 table. I think Kathy and Becky's is going to be something else entirely. 543 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:37,119 And I think that Robin, David, Keith, Sandra and eventually Lauren Powell 544 00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:40,280 and Brian Pettinger. I think those are going to end up being the core 545 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,280 group as related to liberty security. The more connections that we see to liberty, 546 00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:50,599 the higher likelihood I think it is that a lot of this is linked 547 00:41:50,599 --> 00:41:53,840 back to Run Little, I really truly do. I'm with you on that. 548 00:41:54,039 --> 00:42:00,280 I think the Run Little New Zealand connection needs to be explored again. 549 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,559 I think that really is where the FBI needs to place their focus now one 550 00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:09,800 hundred percent. It just seems you just can't have that many murdered young people 551 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:15,880 come up with one connection to the same two people and not have that explored. 552 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:20,960 I think it's time for them to revisit that particular investigative lead. Agreed. 553 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:28,559 And then our final question comes from the good folks at Brothers in Crime. 554 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,159 Brothers in Crime asks, what if anything, can people do now to 555 00:42:34,199 --> 00:42:38,199 create movement in this case? Is there any particular pressure point, outlet, 556 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:43,639 or avenue where we can do something to help these cases get solved. This 557 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,239 is a fantastic question, and we want to thank the brothers in crime for 558 00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,559 it. I think we're going to have to really think about this, you 559 00:42:50,679 --> 00:42:53,480 and I and we're going to be seeing several of the other families in a 560 00:42:53,519 --> 00:42:58,719 couple of weeks at the keithcoll Memorial. I think we're going to have to 561 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,880 brainstorm about this and try to figure out how do we go about this. 562 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:08,039 I know that a number of US Colonial Parkway murders families have written to the 563 00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:14,599 FBI specifically over the past year, and we're getting the same old answers, 564 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:20,039 which is open case, can't really comment, nothing to say at this time, 565 00:43:20,679 --> 00:43:24,039 still being actively investigated, and it's just such an eye roller. We're 566 00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:30,840 not getting any kind of meaningful response from the FBI. I think in the 567 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,920 past we've gotten a similar response from the Virginia State Police in terms of the 568 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,880 other two incidents. I think we really need to think about this, sit 569 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,760 down with the other family members and talk about this before we can come back 570 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:47,079 to you with a better answer. We're really thankful and so touched every time 571 00:43:47,159 --> 00:43:52,480 people express a desire to help us get the ball rolling on this. We 572 00:43:52,519 --> 00:43:55,679 really do appreciate it. It is just a question though, of trying to 573 00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:00,719 figure out what is going to make the FBI move, if you will, 574 00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:07,000 what is going to make them answer to something other than we're still investigating. 575 00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:10,760 It's an open case. We have some ideas. Bill has been dealing with 576 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:15,519 the FBI for a long time, and I've been dealing with them in conjunction 577 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:20,039 with Bill now since twenty sixteen, so I have some ideas too. But 578 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,119 it really does it feels like I haven't used this metaphor for a while now, 579 00:44:24,159 --> 00:44:27,480 Bill, so I'm going to bring it back right now. It feels 580 00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:30,880 like playing a game with three dimensional chess where you're trying to work on multiple 581 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,800 levels. Three D Chess, by the way, for anybody who's not a 582 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,920 Star Trek fan, it's a Star Trek game, But three D chess is 583 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,480 where you play chess on multiple levels at the same time. I feel like 584 00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:45,199 that's what dealing with the FBI and Virginia State Police is. It's like playing 585 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,239 three D chess and you have to be aware of all the moves and all 586 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,559 the pieces on the board at the same time, and it's not always easy 587 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,239 to control who and what's on the board and who's interacting with each other. 588 00:44:54,599 --> 00:44:59,559 Say, I feel like we really have to consider our moves carefully before we 589 00:44:59,639 --> 00:45:04,360 do anything. We appreciate everybody who reaches out and asks what can we do? 590 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,199 Because we know your heart is in the right place, and we appreciate 591 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,800 that we did it. We got through all of our questions on the ask 592 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:16,400 us Anything question sheet, and there were a lot of them. We are 593 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:22,360 so thankful to everybody who asks us questions, who is interested in status updates 594 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:27,199 on the case, and who follows us on social media, and who just 595 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,480 reaches out to say, hey, how are things going. We can't thank 596 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:35,360 you all enough for your support for these cases and these families. That is 597 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,400 going to do it for us until the next episode of Mind Over Murder. 598 00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,320 The next time that we record, we will be back from crime Con so 599 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:45,559 we will have an after action report from what is doubtless going to be a 600 00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:49,679 fun filled and action packed weekend. Until then, thank you so much for 601 00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,000 listening to this episode of Mind Over Murder. We'll see you next time. 602 00:46:01,559 --> 00:46:07,320 Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and another Dog productions. Our 603 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:13,679 Executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela 604 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:19,239 Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod. Mind Over Murder is distributed 605 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:23,400 in partnership with Coral Space Media. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, 606 00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:28,639 or Instagram. You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway Murders 607 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,119 on Facebook, and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill 608 00:46:32,159 --> 00:47:02,320 Thomas five six. Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder U