WEBVTT 1 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:31.120 Hello, and welcome to the show. This is Martin Willish, your host. 2 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:39.119 We seem to have had an issue with the recording this evening for this 3 00:00:39.880 --> 00:00:46.000 show with Rob Scholtzky. Everything seemed to be fine on my end through Skype 4 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:50.679 and all that, but somehow the software seemed to be corrupt. So we 5 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:56.759 are going to be working with KGr A Radio to get the original file from 6 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:00.039 them and hopefully I'll be able to clean that up and send out a podcast. 7 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:06.959 But for now, this podcast is something I recorded at the UFO Congress 8 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:11.439 in Australian group. Anyway, it's a great show. That's a great group 9 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:48.200 of people and enjoy this podcast. Welcome to the show. Thanks so much. 10 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:53.000 We have Australia being represented the Victoria and well you explained where you to 11 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:56.640 heck you from and how you got here. Hell ya, thanks Martin. 12 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:02.200 Monime's Ben Hill. I'm the director of Victorian UFO Action and we are the 13 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:08.639 primary group in Victoria that investigates UFO sightings in our state. We've decided that 14 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:13.840 we'd like to get out there and see the world, I suppose to a 15 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:17.120 certain extent, and what better way to start than by coming to the International 16 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:22.319 UFO Congress here in Phoenix. So we've decided that we'd do a bit of 17 00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:24.879 a road trip and we landed in Las Vegas, and we've been all through 18 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:31.599 northern Nevada and northern Arizona and we're now here in Phoenix for the week, 19 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:36.960 and we're really having a great time meeting all these different people that are around 20 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:40.439 the UFO phenomenon, and people doing all sorts of different work in the phenomenon, 21 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:46.439 coming from different perspectives, and really there's there's just so many conversations you 22 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:51.039 can have with anyone standing in the corner or talk to a major presenter. 23 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:54.199 It really is a great opportunity. Now, just a while you're speaking, 24 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:58.360 going how am I did this? Who's bring child? First of all was 25 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:01.120 just to come over here, and how did this tech to get the whole 26 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:05.280 thing together and plan? Well, it's really I think Jim and Chris that 27 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:08.840 was where the genesis of the idea started. And you think about what it 28 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:13.919 takes to get six people to get time off work and have the money and 29 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.319 all those type of things to pull it off. So it certainly had been 30 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:21.680 in the pipeline for might say well over six months or so for us to 31 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:24.639 all agree that we could go ask our bosses for time off, et cetera, 32 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:28.639 et cetera. So it's sort of is really quite special that we're able 33 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:30.919 to get you six people from our small group, which is practically half the 34 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:36.240 group, to be able to travel to the United States. Yeah, well, 35 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:38.000 I'm glad you're Verry h. I will talk a little bit about it. 36 00:03:38.120 --> 00:03:43.759 Australia is actually one of the top listeners to this show. You're a 37 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:47.599 country of twenty six million or so people, and your number three usually when 38 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:52.960 I check it too, sometimes even two. So let's start change. We'll 39 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:55.759 started to send read here and a little bit about equ and what got you 40 00:03:55.879 --> 00:04:01.039 interested in the subject? Thanks Martin. I came kind of I'm an architect 41 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:05.759 by profession, coming out of the design in design industry. I kind of 42 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:13.439 came through the aerospace as an enthusiast in that field. UM largely drawn by 43 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:18.399 the writings and work of doctor edgar Mitchell UM. And one goes, as 44 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:21.399 I say, down the rabbit hole, and I just kept going and made 45 00:04:21.399 --> 00:04:24.600 a trip to the US, and made another trip to the US and met 46 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:29.399 a few people, and it just it just keeps going. Basically, early 47 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:32.639 on I came to the conclusion that the at its core, the phenomena is 48 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:39.399 real, and I became fairly obsessed with finding out what's going on. Um. 49 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:42.639 So that's that's what got me into it. But of course once you 50 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:45.800 started, there's no way out, is it, as we all know. 51 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:47.959 Um. But yeah, so you know, to get into the action, 52 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:50.519 you've got to come to the US. Let's face it, that's grand zero 53 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:57.000 for pretty much everything that's going on. Absolutely, Australia is a small country 54 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.879 and really not a lot goes on there. You know, in the field 55 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:02.319 we have the same problems that you have here, and that in terms of 56 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:05.839 the media and the general public, basically the subject is just ridiculed. It 57 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.720 is changing, of course, But over here you have an industry, you 58 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:12.519 have a community. You know, you can do these kind of things. 59 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.399 And one thing I really believe is you need a tribe. You need to 60 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:19.600 get yourself around like minded people and whatever your take on the subject matter is, 61 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:24.000 you can find something in the US that will you know that you can 62 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.439 plug into. I suppose. So I've made a few trips over here, 63 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:30.480 and I've been to this this conference and others before, and I think that's 64 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:33.680 what kind of got you know, just through the idea out there and it 65 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:35.879 just kind of got leaks and here we are. So we're having a great 66 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:39.639 time. It's it's incredible the people you meet. Just on the way to 67 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:43.680 this interview. We stop for five minutes with James Fox, with Linkatar, 68 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:46.199 you know, you know what it's like, Paul Heinick. It just goes 69 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.000 on. So you know, for us from the other side of the planet, 70 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:51.399 you know, we just don't get access to these this these kind of 71 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:55.360 people, this kind of information and the opportunity. And it's not just the 72 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:59.120 celebrities, it's the just the people you meet just anywhere. You know, 73 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:02.000 everyone's got a story, yeah, you know, and it's just incredible. 74 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.720 So I think we're all having a really good time and we're just excited. 75 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:08.040 It's just you never and like I said before, you never know what's going 76 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:11.680 to happen next. It's just you know, it's just it's just incredible. 77 00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:15.079 So and I mean, you'll be next to I just want to say one 78 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:17.480 thing that kind of astounded me and when I started to look into this is 79 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:23.439 how many highly intelligent people are interested in the topic. And you know, 80 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:27.040 because on the outside, you know, growing up on the ridicule and stuff 81 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:30.240 like that. You know, you hear is just you know these you know 82 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.839 cooks and um, you know farmers and whatever, and you know, those 83 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:40.360 are the only people that that's kind of like the the misconception of was actually 84 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:44.399 interested in absolutely, And you know outside is looking in thinks we're all we're 85 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.600 all crazy and all this. You know, but you talk to people like 86 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:50.360 the Danny Sheens and the James Foxes and the Richard Dolans and yourself, your 87 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:55.680 reputation is is incredible, you know it. You can attack this subject matter 88 00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:00.439 very credibly and very intelligently. Um. And that's what I think a group 89 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:02.680 we are very we're all very skeptical. We're all like to think we attacked 90 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:08.839 this very very intelligently. But you're right, I mean, yeah, yeah, 91 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:13.319 and it is changing before I our eyes. The subject matter is unfolding 92 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:15.839 before our eyes. People starting to take this seriously, the news media starting 93 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:23.680 to take this seriously. So it's it's incredible times we're going through. Okay, 94 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:28.360 oh him, I come from a very skeptical and debunking background, and 95 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:33.160 my belief was that anybody who saw a UFO was on some sort of mind 96 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:41.000 altering drug and not right in the head until I moved from South Australia to 97 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:48.600 Melbourne and through a series of events through my workplace, was presented with the 98 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:54.000 Westall case. I'd never heard of a mass sighting and to me, I 99 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.959 stood up and took that quite seriously that there was such a thing. There 100 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.360 was a researcher, serious research church, Shane Ryan, that was involved in 101 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:05.959 looking into the case. He and Rosie Jones had made a documentary on it 102 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:11.839 and interviewed the witnesses who saw the case. And I guess anybody watching this 103 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:16.480 can just go and google Westall if they haven't already. Prior to that, 104 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:24.720 just out of curiosity, I had wondered if there were anybody seriously researching your 105 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:30.639 foes, and after doing a lot of digging on the Internet, I discovered 106 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:35.360 Keith Basterfield and he's from my home state of South Australia, and I was 107 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:41.320 amazed to see his methodical and thorough research and compiling of cases for many years. 108 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:45.519 One of the cases I noticed was in the next street from where I 109 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:50.440 grew up back in the sixties early seventies. I think it was don't cut 110 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:54.320 quite remember the year, and that really sent a chill down my spine, 111 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:58.120 and then you know, I left that alone, and then once again came 112 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:03.159 across through my work about the west Or incident, and when the fiftieth anniversary 113 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.440 came up, I thought it would be nice to have a little picnic and 114 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:11.840 meet the witnesses. So I put a notice out on Facebook and invited anybody 115 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:16.960 to come and have a moment silent remembering the incident April six, nineteen sixty 116 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:24.440 six, and we met at the grange and I had the pleasure of meeting 117 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:28.120 some of the witnesses. One case in particular that impressed me was the case 118 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.679 of Paul Smith, who wasn't a school child at the time. He was 119 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:39.600 a market gardener working and he saw the craft quite close up, and he 120 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.159 and his boss looked up from pulling up carrots. And you'll probably see this 121 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:48.080 on the video as well, but he explained to me how the craft was 122 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.720 hovering there in front of him, and he wasn't sure whether it was a 123 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:56.320 trick or an illusion or some sort of projection. And he and the boss 124 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:01.200 were staring at this thing and it changed colors and it became semi transparent, 125 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:05.519 and it drifted through the trees, and I actually went to the very spot 126 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:09.279 with him and he explained to me and showed me where it was, and 127 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:13.679 he said, and I said, well, what do you mean it drifted 128 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:16.840 through the trees? Did it go in and around the trees at the grange? 129 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:18.639 And he said no, it drifted through the trees. And I said, 130 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:22.159 what do you mean, like a ghost or like smoke? And he 131 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:26.480 said yes, it became the consistency of smoke. And I thought, I've 132 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:30.799 never heard of anything like this. And this prompted me to keep looking into 133 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.919 this phenomena. I've discovered Jacques Valet. I've been reading all of his diaries. 134 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:41.480 I really tried to focus on the scientific aspect of this phenomena. And 135 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:45.600 that's it pretty much. Ben. I know you were on the show, 136 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:50.399 my show in twenty seventeen, but go ahead for the person who's never heard 137 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:52.519 your story, and just, you know, quickly go into you know, 138 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.879 I actually interested in it in the beginning. Yeah, well, going into 139 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:01.240 the beginning. I was into UFOs as a child. The first books I 140 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:03.399 bought were books on UFOs, and I was familiar with the Travis Walton case 141 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:09.000 and Betty and Barney Hill cases of that stature right back in the nineteen seventies, 142 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:13.799 not long after the Walton incident, and it really captured my imagination as 143 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:20.799 a child that there the possibility of there being other intelligences out there that would 144 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.320 be visiting us for whatever reason. And to me it seemed quite a natural 145 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.919 thing, even at a young age. It was just seemed very intuitive that 146 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:31.080 it was actually a fact that there really used no question to it. So 147 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:33.559 that was my own personal belief, but it wasn't And I had the interest 148 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:37.200 all through my life, you know, so I'd always read UFO books and 149 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:41.000 stuff like that, but it had drift in and out, you know, 150 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.759 with life busy, busy. And then when I turned about forty, I 151 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.120 thought, I really want to get back into UFOs and I thought, I 152 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:50.720 want to investigate UFOs. I want to get out there and I want to 153 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:56.120 actually be a part of something that's that's actively exploring this. And I lived 154 00:11:56.120 --> 00:12:00.159 three hours from Melbourne, so I don't live anywhere near the city. And 155 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:03.639 unfortunately in Australia really at that time, there wasn't really much going on, 156 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.679 particularly in our state. View Force had closed down, they'd peat it out 157 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.240 by the early two thousands, so there was nothing really active from a really 158 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:16.320 active group point of view. George Simpson was having some meetings down in Chelsea, 159 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:18.679 dragging along some of the old view Force members, and that was the 160 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:24.440 first, my first introduction to sitting around with people discussing UFOs. At that 161 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.159 meeting, I met another man called Andrew Arnold who was trying to get a 162 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:30.639 UFO group up and running, which was Victorian UFO Action, and he and 163 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.159 I hit it off pretty well straight away. He saw something in me. 164 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:37.000 What that was, I don't know, but we got together and one with 165 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:43.159 a couple of other people, we started to reconstruct a group again in our 166 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:46.480 state. So view Force had been there for over fifty years. They'd had 167 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:50.759 a huge backlog of cases they investigated, They did all the big cases from 168 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:54.159 our state, and here we were in the new millennium trying to recruit to 169 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:58.159 recreate what they had been doing for the previous fifty years, with very little 170 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:03.279 other than ourselves and a camera popping out to locations, talking to witnesses, 171 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:05.799 swatting flies and the sun, all that sort of stuff. We made, 172 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:13.000 We made videos, We created a website and Facebook pages, and then gradually 173 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.840 we had we had more people start to join us, start to get interested, 174 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:16.679 and it was a bit of a revolving door. At the start, 175 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.960 we had people coming through the group, you know, deciding it's not for 176 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:24.080 them for whatever reason. You have this sort of turnover of people. But 177 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:26.720 after a while it started to stick and we started to get some really good 178 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:31.639 people coming along, and we were just pinching ourselves at the quality of the 179 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:35.799 people that were coming to our meetings and not just coming to the meetings, 180 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:37.679 actually wanted to come back, so that was really good too. We had 181 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:41.039 a couple of conferences that we did that was a good start, and that's 182 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:45.840 where the likes of Jim came along, and you know, Lana popped up 183 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.000 and all the other guys here at the table popped up, and I was 184 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:52.440 so glad they did, but very grateful for their for their input. So 185 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:54.399 for me, it was about getting out there and talking to the witnesses. 186 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.600 I had a great passion for UFO cases. I believe the witnesses. I 187 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:05.080 believe their stories, and we wanted to get out to the locations and preserve 188 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:11.159 the history, the UFO history, and also at the same time offer new 189 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:15.720 current people the opportunity to report UFOs as well, so the whole thing grew 190 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:20.039 out of grew out of really just just good old fashioned keenness and a desire 191 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:24.200 to do it. And I drove to Melbourne for a month after month, 192 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:28.279 six hour return trips um, you know, trying to get this group up 193 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.639 and running. So I was just going to ask you your location basically, 194 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.600 to describe where are your location. Yeah, well, if you look at 195 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.039 a map of Australia and a map of Victoria, I'm up in the pointy 196 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.039 end of the state, which is in the east. It is three hours 197 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:46.399 from the Wilderness area. Keipps Land is a fantastic UFO location. The UFO, 198 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:52.519 the UFO history and Victoria is very rich. Every region of our states 199 00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:56.000 has a quite an extensive UFO history. It is worth preserving so that we 200 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:58.600 know what's happened in the past, so we can see what's happening in the 201 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:03.840 future. Maybe we can make some connections between past and future and present. 202 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.000 So it was it was a big job. You know, It's a big 203 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:11.200 job getting anything going, you know, whether it's a Scout group or anything, 204 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.919 basketball club, whatever it is, it takes a lot of a lot 205 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.879 of work and a lot of effort and particularly with a topic like UFOs where 206 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.000 there's not a lot of support for that in the community. Really, it 207 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.120 really is a niche type of an interest, which fortunately in this day and 208 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:28.799 age, is becoming a lot more widespread. And I'm not talking just the 209 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:31.440 pop culture stuff. The pop culture stuff is out there and everybody loves all 210 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:35.559 that and it's a lot of fun. But the research side of things is 211 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:37.480 really what we really need to get going. We really need the research. 212 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:43.080 We need the scientists to be involved. There's a whole host of the biologists 213 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.279 as a whole host of people that really need to take it, take it 214 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:48.759 seriously, you know. And since the Air Force, you know, lost 215 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:52.000 interest back in the in the sixties and they said, look, just just 216 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:54.840 go to the civilian clubs. If you've got if you've got a UFO report, 217 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:58.480 go to view Force, go to UFO Research. Queensland, New South 218 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:03.080 Wales, don't bother us. Go to those groups. But the groups don't 219 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:06.799 have any support. They've got to really self generate their own their own income, 220 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:08.080 and there's only one way you can do that, and that's by hosting 221 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:14.080 speakers. Maybe you can get some government grants if you're savvy enough with operating 222 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:17.879 through that system and paperwork. But for UFO groups it's kind of I don't 223 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:22.120 think we'd be at the top of the list for issuing funds. Is probably 224 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:25.759 probably give it to a pony club over us, so you know, and 225 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:30.320 unfortunately that's the way it is, right right. And this next gentleman here 226 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:33.080 recognized me in the whole, and yes I did. Yes, A bit 227 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:34.399 of a fan of your show. It's a good show. My name is 228 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:38.759 Chris. I'm from Victoria's trailer as well. I also live in Gippsland, 229 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:44.600 not far from ben in a place called Golden Beach. I've been probably taken 230 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.840 the subject more serious in the past five years. Prior to that, I 231 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.000 would watch the subject but not really investigate it too much or read much of 232 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.600 the books. But I did have a sighting in ninety one where I saw 233 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:57.720 a disc. I thought I was crazy for about six years until I spoke 234 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:03.000 to her mum and she had similar experience. So I guess that's where I 235 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:07.119 sort of come at it. So can you describe your saying a little bit? 236 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:10.599 Yeah, it was. I suppose I would describe it as an almost 237 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:15.480 a taped egg shape type disc. It was pro within a kilometer from where 238 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.759 I was standing. It came up from behind some trees and just flew up 239 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:22.519 through the clouds and off it went. It probably lasted maybe fifteen to twenty 240 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:26.359 seconds, but it was enough to just be a complete paradigm shift. Yeah, 241 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:33.039 yeah, I get it. Yeah, and Hi, I'm Joyce. 242 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:37.079 Ever since I was a child, I always looked up at the stars and 243 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.119 wondered or thinking, oh, wish I was I could go home, And 244 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.920 then I would pinch myself and think, oh, what do you mean you 245 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.920 know this is home. But when I was fifteen, I watched the documentary 246 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:56.680 on the Roswell crash and was fascinated by it. There were a few whistleblowers, 247 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.359 but back then their faces were blacked out and they as were disguised, 248 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:04.920 which is quite interesting because now you know it's not the case. Um, 249 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:11.240 they're quite visible. Uh. And and then I read Whitley Strieber's book Communion 250 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.400 around fifteen years old as well, and was fascinated and quite scared. But 251 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:23.680 I think from that book I really developed some empathy for people that have experiences 252 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:27.799 such as that and don't know where to go, and people just seeing that 253 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:37.880 they're crazy. And when I was about twenty five. I saw a craft 254 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:44.119 in perth Wau. It was round and it was it would it was luminous 255 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.279 and they're all dim and then it will glow again. And it was moving 256 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:51.640 really fast and then it would zigzact, disappear and reappear and then yeah, 257 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:56.880 move really fast again. And I had my boyfriend at the time saw it 258 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.440 as well, and then I saw it another time. I'm the same type 259 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.799 of type of craft about ten years later in New Zealand on top of a 260 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.680 mountain. Um. Still yeah, the same round. Um it would dim 261 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:14.079 and glow, dim and glow. And I work as a psychologist, so 262 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:21.039 I'm really interested in the types of entities that people encounter. And there's been 263 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.839 some consistent types, so I'm really interested in, um yeah, what the 264 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:32.160 culture is and um the different types that people are talking about. And I 265 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:37.400 think that there's enough people talking about it to move forward and really learn about 266 00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:48.279 them. Yeah. Um. My interest started when I was a little little 267 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:53.799 girl. My brother was interested in space stuff, so I think I got 268 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:59.000 it from him to some degree. Um. I remember as a kid my 269 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:04.039 dad had Rea Tostiges books Into the Unknown had pictures of aliens and you were 270 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:08.359 fox Craft, and I just zoned into them all the time. I'd flip 271 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:12.400 back and keep looking at them and keep looking at them, and all throughout 272 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:17.519 my life I just wanted to see U Poe. Never saw anything up until 273 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:23.799 recently, never been abducted, never had anything weird happened, just always interested, 274 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.880 and of one thing led to another, and I ended up joining this 275 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:32.480 group and the rest is history. It's been mind blowing ever since then. 276 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:36.240 Yeah. I really like the connections that you can make. I mean, 277 00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:41.000 this is so unriched my life and so many different ways. I never knew 278 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:45.960 it was something that was available, or I didn't even think that there was 279 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.720 any interest in the topic. I really have no clue. I would have 280 00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:53.559 never dreamed that there was going to be a conference of any type on this 281 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.920 subject. Ever, you know, and come to find out what's going on 282 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:02.319 for many years. I just want to ask you a couple of different things. 283 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:06.319 First of all, may have asked you this, but I'm not sure. 284 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:11.920 I heard of a sighting in Australia that was really unusual along the highway 285 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:18.640 where people pulled over. Yes, yeah, that's the Mandrabilla case in in 286 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:22.640 Western Australia, which is there's a lot. There's a road that basically travels 287 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.279 from Adelaide to Perth, and it's called what's the nulla Ball Plane, and 288 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:30.799 it's it's flat, it's straight, it's desolate, there's nothing around. It 289 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:37.839 really is a classic desert area. And on this particular night, the Knowles 290 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:44.559 family were traveling from Perth across to Melbourne and they were traveling across the Nullaball 291 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:49.720 Plane and at a place near Maundrabilla, this object came out of the heavens 292 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:56.119 and it landed on top of their car and it basically attached itself to the 293 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:02.240 car and it lifted the car off the road as they were driving along, 294 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:04.640 and it filled the car with a with a sort of a smoke, and 295 00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:11.079 they were all disorientated and it dropped the car and they all ran out of 296 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:15.079 the car and they were terrified. And apparently a truck driver also who was 297 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:19.079 driving on the same road also saw it. That's the basics of the case. 298 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:23.119 It got a huge amount of media coverage at the time, huge amount 299 00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.799 the media were all over it. They leaped all over this case of this 300 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.640 family and it was a classic example of you if I witnesses being treated rather 301 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:37.000 poorly for the magnitude of the case, like it really was a well, 302 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:41.599 it was a very very traumatic case for those involved in the media at the 303 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:44.680 time in the late eighties took it as a as a bit of a joke 304 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.039 and they treated the family pretty poorly. The family was more of a working 305 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:52.079 class family as well, which perhaps they didn't present that brilliantly on TV, 306 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:56.279 and they really sort of the media sort of turned into a bit of a 307 00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:00.880 bit of a circus around that time, and the witnesses came very um you 308 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:06.079 know, they were very bitter about that and they won't talk about it now 309 00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:08.640 and they're very hard to contact. The mothers passed away and there was about 310 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:12.680 four boys that are scattered around Australia. I don't even think one of the 311 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:18.960 one of the sons has died too. So it really ufo history all us, 312 00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:22.359 certainly in Australia, that they sit in the background for so long and 313 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:26.720 then periodically a case comes up that goes bang and all of a sudden, 314 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:29.480 it's got a lot of attention. That was one the Kelly Khole incident in 315 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.400 the early nineties. That was also another one that that really captured the public's 316 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:37.440 attention again for a while, and the media jumped onto that case as well. 317 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:41.240 And then you go through these long periods where there's not much sort of 318 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.279 happening. Well, these things are always happening. But but but these giant 319 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.680 cases that jump out might happen once every decade or you know, even every 320 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.960 two decades, you know, and certainly in the modern era, we haven't 321 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:57.519 really had a Maundrabilla case. We haven't had a West Stall, we haven't 322 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:02.640 had a Kelly Kahill encounter. Um that's popped up anywhere in the country. 323 00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:07.519 What wouldn't do anyone of you can answer this, But what would you consider 324 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:15.160 like the rise well of Australia that was really you know, an amazing probably 325 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:22.200 Australia's two best known and gaining recognition internationally. Two cases very close to where 326 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:26.039 we live in Melbourne. One is the Westall School incident and one is the 327 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:33.079 Frederick Valincich pilot incident. Now both of those were very we're as a group, 328 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.880 we're very close to both of those cases. We have as a team 329 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:41.599 arranged. In fact, only last year was the anniversary of the what was 330 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:47.200 that the fortieth anniversary of the Frederick Valinich now, just briefly, he was 331 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:51.920 a pilot twenty one year old who went it's pretty well known actually, but 332 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:57.720 it was flying out of our local airport. Was going on a short flight 333 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:02.680 over Bass straight, followed the coastline for one hundred miles or so, and 334 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:08.240 then flying over water. Reported back to the control tower that asking if there 335 00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:11.880 was any aircraft in the area. The answer was no. Is there any 336 00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:18.279 military aircraft in the end area? The answer was no. He was reporting 337 00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:21.599 that he was being followed by something that wasn't a plane. There was conversation 338 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:25.599 for six or seven minutes back between he and the control tower. He was 339 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:27.160 saying, it's following me, it's above me, it's gone, it's back 340 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:32.680 again. One of his final comments was it's I can see it again and 341 00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:37.039 it's not an aircraft. There was then that was followed by some static on 342 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:41.119 the radio and he was never seen again. Now we as you know, 343 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.359 his mechanic is a member of our team. His fiance at the time is 344 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.480 someone who's very well known to us. We recently put together a conference and 345 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:55.480 we had the fellow who was in communication with him from air traffic gentleman by 346 00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:59.759 the name of Steve Roby, and Steve Roby said he believes it was a 347 00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:03.799 you know, you have used the world UFO UM, so we put together 348 00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:07.799 a conference only are you pretty much a year ago around that. So that's 349 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:10.559 one of the world's most important cases. And of course we had the Westall 350 00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:12.920 case, which someone else can talk about perhaps, and that's you know, 351 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:15.599 James, We've just come out of a prison chation from James Fox. He 352 00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:21.119 went to Australia two years ago now and he has a lot of content about 353 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:23.599 the west All case in his upcoming film. That's a that's a very big 354 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:29.839 story to Daylight saying siding with two hundred people, well documented, including a 355 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.880 school teacher. So someone else if you like, and talk about that one. 356 00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:41.119 But yeah, that's yes, we are working class. Were you are 357 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.319 aware of that one? Oh? Absolutely? And one of the things I've 358 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.839 seen like a re enactment ideal of what was happening. But I'm just wondering, 359 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:56.240 does the original idea exists from that? The answer is yes, And 360 00:26:56.519 --> 00:27:03.839 is it available? The answer is no, any idea. What what I've 361 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:08.599 been told is that because someone die allegedly died went missing in that incident, 362 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:14.480 the investigation people don't release the details of the case. That's what I've been 363 00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.759 told is that forever. I don't know, Ben, do you know about 364 00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:27.119 that? Probably is the So at the time when when Fred disappeared, the 365 00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:33.880 Department of Transport were extremely transparent, extremely transparent. They released the entire transcript 366 00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:36.759 of Fred and Steve Raby's conversation to the public. It was printed in the 367 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:41.359 newspapers the very next day and you could read it and they didn't edit that 368 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.480 in any way, shape or form. They put down the entire conversation. 369 00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:52.519 So and an investigation was done. Then, over the years with with government 370 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:57.480 departments, records get moved, they get shipped, the locations change, they 371 00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:03.440 destroy records. And if you approached the Department of Transport now and ask them 372 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:08.160 for a copy of that particular tape, it just doesn't exist. You can't 373 00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:12.720 you can't order that tape. You can't order that tape because it's not there. 374 00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:17.039 Well, you can't run that tape because it's not there. And also 375 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.640 it's not it's classified as not being released. The family was given a copy 376 00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:26.400 of Fred's voice, so they got a tape with one side of the conversation 377 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:32.000 that was everything that Fred said. So the family did get his final words 378 00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:36.640 and you know how that went down. But there's lots of reenactments that have 379 00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:41.359 been done. The reenactments are actually quite good there as far as the re 380 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:45.559 enactments, you know, he's like really really stressful. Yeah, do you 381 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:52.039 think No, not at all. Fred was a pilot and he was working 382 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:56.440 the problem. Fred Fred and Steve were working that problem together, and they 383 00:28:56.440 --> 00:29:00.599 were working that problem in a rational and clear and coherent right through to the 384 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:07.559 absolute very end of the transmission. At no point in time is Fred in 385 00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:12.519 a panic. That's that's a misrepresentation that might come through in some of the 386 00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:18.759 some of the actual recreations because no one can really hear his voice to say 387 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.240 what, you know, how he actually was. But now they were working 388 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:26.359 that problem in a very real way. And if you watch on our YouTube 389 00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:32.599 channel on the vfil TV, you can watch the anniversary day that we had 390 00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:36.960 and Steve Robe really goes over that in a very very thorough way and he 391 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.640 gives a really good breakdown of that event. Was there at any point where 392 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.039 there was any like movement caused by the crowd, like, for instance, 393 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:49.880 there's a coin helicopter case that happened here in the stage where it actually was 394 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:56.799 pulled, lifting the elevation of the helicopter. Did he mention anything He said 395 00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:59.519 too, he said, well, he said one thing. He said, 396 00:29:59.559 --> 00:30:03.200 my engine is, my engine is coughing. And when it was in proximity 397 00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:07.440 to the craft, and he described the craft as orbiting above him so and 398 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.640 was having an effect on his engine that the engine started coughing. He did 399 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:15.480 an adjustment and him and Steve were working working that issue through at the end 400 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:19.680 of the tape. Perhaps interestingly, and maybe closer to what you're sort of 401 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:23.960 talking about, is there's an unknown sound that comes on for about seventeen seconds, 402 00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:29.440 and it sounds like a scraping sound, a rotating scraping sound. And 403 00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:32.839 there's been a lot of conjecture over the years as to what that scraping sound 404 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.319 is. Is it simply him dropping the mic? Is it Is it metal 405 00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:41.759 rubbing on metal. No one really knows. But his plane was reacting to 406 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.119 the to the object being in the vicinity, and there was definitely some type 407 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:48.920 of a sound as a result of that contact. What did the skeptics see 408 00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:53.759 about that? Well, once the skeptics say he was flying upside down, 409 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.920 that's the obvious one, and you can't fly sessens up down for much longer 410 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:00.759 than about twenty seconds because I actually run out a few because the fuels in 411 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:06.200 the wings. They said he went into a graveyard spiral where he gradually and 412 00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:11.359 unknowingly just descends and basically ends up in the ocean. So they're the two 413 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:15.240 main theories. In the water, he's seeing a reflection on the moon in 414 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:23.160 the water. Yes, this is his nightfline dusk. Yeah. When we 415 00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:29.119 had our fortieth an anniversary event, we had it at the airport that he 416 00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:33.480 left from, and we had it. Our events spanned into the time that 417 00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:37.720 he left. We actually stopped. I think Steve Roby mentioned he said, 418 00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:41.559 look up, everyone, this is the conditions that he had left the airport 419 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.519 in. This is exactly the light. And it was just dusk. It 420 00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.319 was still quite light. It wasn't peach black or dark or confusing. It 421 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:57.039 was still a reasonable amount. Yeah. There's also been hypotheses that he's committed 422 00:31:57.079 --> 00:32:01.200 suicide or that he's faked his own disappear. But at the time he was 423 00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:04.720 engaged, he was saying he was happy. He was a happy guy. 424 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:07.640 Apparently we know people who knew him, we know his field, say very 425 00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:10.680 well. So you know, none of us believe that there's any that has 426 00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.000 any credibility this for sure, we don't know what happened. We have no 427 00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:17.160 opinion, but certainly I for one don't believe that was even remotely possible. 428 00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:21.759 Yeah, I mean, we'll never something tragic like back from side to the 429 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:25.799 poor traders together and it's not always pretty. It actually is one of the 430 00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:31.640 world's greatest aviation mysteries, and certainly Australia's greatest aviation mystery, that a pilot 431 00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:42.480 can interact with some unknown craft literally just outside of Melbourne metropolitan area, basically 432 00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:45.519 still within the control of the Tulemarine Airport, and disappear off the face of 433 00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:49.400 the earth. And you could say that well, logically he ended up in 434 00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:51.960 the water. While they searched for two weeks and they didn't find any wreckage. 435 00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:53.640 They didn't find anything. They found an all slick, but the was 436 00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:58.279 a marine diesel, so there was literally no sign of that plane. An 437 00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:01.519 assessin on impact that floating pieces of assessiner on the ocean, you'd have to 438 00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:05.759 say, no problem at all. They'd find pieces of wing, they'd find 439 00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:08.480 life jackets, they'd find anything like that that was that was in the plane, 440 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:12.440 he would have thought quite easily, and they basically started searching for him 441 00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.440 pretty much straight away. So what happened to him, no one can say, 442 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:20.000 but it certainly is one of the world's most most compelling UFO cases. 443 00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:23.079 Yeah, I mean, if he would have to salve gracefully getge, yeah, 444 00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.839 I mean, that would be pretty rare. That'd be pretty rare. 445 00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:35.359 And we asked lots of questions about Fred's competence as a pilot to Steve Roby 446 00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:38.400 and also his girlfriend Ronda, who went flying with him at every opportunity, 447 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:42.680 and the fact was meant to be on that flight with him, but due 448 00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:45.960 to twists of fate, she didn't actually end up on the plane. And 449 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:50.400 he was he was, He was a competent pilot and he knew what he 450 00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:52.160 was doing him that was his first night flight, and you can always say 451 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:57.200 pilot in experience, and logically he must be. He must have ditched into 452 00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:00.920 the water. But the conversations very strange. It's a very strange conversation to 453 00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:07.280 be having with a flight services officer when you're basically a pilot. He's trying 454 00:34:07.280 --> 00:34:13.000 to create a career for yourself and and talking about UFOs doesn't help your career 455 00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.199 nine seventy eight. It wouldn't have been a good idea to be talking about 456 00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:20.000 UFOs. Can I just add to that. I just add to that. 457 00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:24.480 There's no record off him actually mention mentioning the word UFO. Doesn't in that 458 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:30.360 transcript, he never mentioned the word UFO. He just asked about an object 459 00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:36.320 or a craft. But yeah, yeah, He basically says, is there 460 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:40.119 any any known aircraft in the vicinity? And they're talking about military, they're 461 00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:45.119 talking about civilian, and Steve Rabe is going, no, no, there's 462 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.159 nothing, there's nothing. There's nothing up there with you. There's nothing up 463 00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:50.440 there that should be with you. But but they couldn't see him on radar. 464 00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:52.280 He was he was he was not high enough to be on the radar. 465 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.000 He was below that level, so they couldn't actually see him. They 466 00:34:55.000 --> 00:35:00.360 could only talk to him, so they couldn't get a visual of what was 467 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:05.400 update with him at that time. The transcript he also he loses side of 468 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:07.639 it several times, and he says it's it's moving around me, and then 469 00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:10.199 he says it's gone. Then he says it's on top of me, you 470 00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:14.840 know. So it was quite whatever it was doing, it was highly unusual. 471 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:22.400 So all right, so at last just December twenty seventeen the New York 472 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:28.760 Times it was out of the article of Pentagon researching UFOs. Kind of changed 473 00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:34.679 everything here. Um, the media started looking at more seriously the topic. 474 00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.760 Um there was the ridicule back it went down all of a sudden, there's 475 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:44.599 a time of more people assume to Mark Charles and interested. Um what change? 476 00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:47.360 Did anything change in Australia? Did you get this in the media? 477 00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:52.159 We get was one hundred and twenty six news stories. Yeah, yeah, 478 00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:57.960 definitely the Australian news media jumped onto it as much as anyone else in the 479 00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:00.320 world did. Oh yeah, for sure. In your head the morning shows 480 00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:07.239 and various programs doing UFO pieces. It becomes something they want to talk about 481 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.800 again and on Facebook, it's viral around the world. So I think it 482 00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:15.960 definitely has gained a lot of a lot of traction, um, you know, 483 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:19.000 since since coming out, and that's a good thing for all of us, 484 00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:21.599 I think, you know, for all the work that we're doing, 485 00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:23.239 everyone here at the conference, all the researchers around the world, for the 486 00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:29.199 witnesses around the world, this is all steps in the right direction, a 487 00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:30.679 lot of a lot of what we have here. You know, I'm true 488 00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:36.360 seen engineer Liens or you know of it. Yes. Is there any aspect 489 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:42.440 of indigenous people that talked about like you know, the star child and you 490 00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:46.440 know or anything like that, any any says that came down as law to 491 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:51.679 them? Where Oh, absolutely, the Aboriginals. I think you've had a 492 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:58.000 strong connection through the millennia with let's call them sky people for the sake of 493 00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:02.480 for the sake of the exercise, when you go up to Northern Australia, 494 00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:07.840 up in the Northern Territory, there are lots of cave paintings and the aboragine 495 00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:10.760 is up there were a lot more they went as nomadic as other areas. 496 00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:15.800 They could live in areas for longer periods of time with billabongs that are full 497 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:19.800 of water and fish, plenty of fish, so they kind of did live 498 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.039 in the one area. So they sort of did create a lot of a 499 00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:27.800 lot of record of what was happening in the last twenty thirty forty thousand years. 500 00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:32.199 And like with the American Indians of the Southwest United States, there's there's 501 00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:38.760 a lot of interesting paintings that are on these walls oka paintings with different symbols 502 00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:43.719 and symbology. And even if you are looking at it from a twenty first 503 00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:45.960 century perspective and you look at some of those some of those images, it's 504 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:51.760 hard not to see astronauts. It's hard not to see spaceships. It's hard 505 00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:57.679 not to see some type of entity depiction that they've put down into the into 506 00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:02.920 their record, into their onto the walls of their caves. So, but 507 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:07.920 it's a whole other topic on its own. Yes, So there's UM the 508 00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.320 Aboriginal community. I don't know whether it's all of them, but at least 509 00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:14.599 some of them do say that they come from the Ple eighties. That's part 510 00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:20.280 of their folklore or there you know, the story that they passed down to 511 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:24.679 their children from generations. That's interesting. Yeah, And there's UM. There's 512 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:30.960 there's stories of them landing on the ground and interacting with with Aboriginals. They're 513 00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:35.519 out there in the Northern Territory, Western Australia. There's various but they're always 514 00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:39.039 vague reports, they're not they're not well documented. They're they're almost urban legends 515 00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:43.400 in many ways, and and really someone needs to take to take the time 516 00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:47.440 and effort to go out to those communities and and earn their trust and and 517 00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:52.199 you know, try and get these stories perhaps with a little bit more detail, 518 00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:55.519 if that's even possible. So, but at the end of the day, 519 00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:00.519 Yeah, the UFO phenomenon has been around our country for for a very 520 00:39:00.519 --> 00:39:04.840 long time, and you know, right from ancient millennia right through to now. 521 00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:09.519 How did your government react to the type? Well, nor Jim probably 522 00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:13.000 could have a little bit to say on this too, but basically they followed 523 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:17.400 the American line pretty much through through you know, modern time. That's that's 524 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:20.840 all I have to say. Jim can probably had a bit more. Yeah, 525 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:22.480 I kind of follow Of all the people in the group, I'm probably 526 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:27.519 closest to the hold the cover up and disclosure side of things. The short 527 00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:30.960 answer is they don't. There's been there's been just radio silence, an air 528 00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:35.800 endum. Personally, I don't think they know a thing. If whatever your 529 00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.239 government knows, I don't think we copied in um. If I could rewind 530 00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:44.039 though to your question about the media coverage and stuff before, only a week 531 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:49.199 before he came here, there's a TV show called The Project and it's it's 532 00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:53.119 it's a news show with a comedy bent and we couldn't believe it. They 533 00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:57.679 ran a story that started with is this something? Could there be something to 534 00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:00.719 this UFO thing after all? And they round the NIMI story, they round 535 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.599 the NIMID story, David Fraber the whole thing, and you know, and 536 00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:07.519 okay, there was a few jokes towards the end, but that's that's a 537 00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.840 big step forward. We were none of us were getting this stuff a year 538 00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:15.519 ago, you know, and look what you've look what's been happening here. 539 00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:20.400 So there's definitely a shift in culture. I think, uh, you know, 540 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:23.039 there's there's always the disclaimers. They're not they're not giving it good coverage, 541 00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:25.960 but we're definitely seeing a shift. But from the government, no, 542 00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:31.639 nothing that anyone else has seen anything that nothing at all. No, the 543 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:36.320 government's very yeah. Yeah, I think Jim's right. I think they think 544 00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.320 Australian government knows anything at all. Really, you know, and any of 545 00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:42.960 our any evidence from our case cases, footage, that sort of stuff, 546 00:40:42.960 --> 00:41:09.440 it all goes straight to you know, sort of military sightings and there's an 547 00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:14.679 awful lot of them, and there is just very dry to read like this 548 00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:19.239 person, this personnel noticed this, this object or this craft that was behaving 549 00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:23.679 unusually and you know, just a very dry record, but there is quite 550 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:28.159 a volume of them, obviously not the volume that is had in the United 551 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:34.039 States because of the comparison of population, but it is there, but it 552 00:41:34.159 --> 00:41:37.559 is not known by the general public. I think my experience in talking to 553 00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:44.320 people about my interest. If somebody asks me, there's a certain age cut 554 00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:49.719 off where people who are over a certain age are still smirking and ridiculing this. 555 00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:52.599 Yet the younger generation are very much more accepting because they seem to be 556 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:58.679 much more informed because they have grown up with the Internet and they can source 557 00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:01.360 information. If they're curious about something, they will look it up. Whereas 558 00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:07.880 I guess people above fifty fifty five sixty there's still a proportion that saying, 559 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:10.079 oh, you don't believe in you reversed you as though it's a belief. 560 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:15.920 And my response is, I don't believe in anything. I'm an atheist. 561 00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:19.880 I don't see it as a religion or a spiritual pursuit for me. I 562 00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:24.519 see it as a point of scientific interest that needs more study. And then 563 00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:30.639 when it is explained that the military all over the world are encountering so trained 564 00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:39.320 observers are encountering these objects in these craft and sometimes entities, then it's quite 565 00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:45.559 sobering for the person who is ready to ridicule the topic. Chris over there 566 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:50.840 actually has an Air Force background. I'm wondering if Chris has sensed any any 567 00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:57.039 change in perception or No, not that I've noticed at the moment. I'm 568 00:42:57.079 --> 00:43:00.039 a contract at the moment to the Air Force, so not actually you know 569 00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:06.199 and Fox personnel. But even while I was in I hadn't really seen anything 570 00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.880 like that, so I would wholly doubt it. But anything, um, 571 00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:13.559 yeah, Well, i'd definitely talk about UFOs at work, that's for sure. 572 00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:15.519 Like I don't. It's just one of those things. What about when 573 00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:23.239 recently when the US Navy is saying that they're going to arrange reporting of UFOs, 574 00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:25.760 saying that must have made some type of group. I would think so 575 00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:30.639 maybe at a higher level, but at the lower levels where I would operate. 576 00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:31.480 No, I haven't seen any of that, No, but I would 577 00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:35.960 hope. So I would definitely hope. So you want if a pilot or 578 00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:40.039 Navy personnel to have a signing, you'd want the appropriate way to report it. 579 00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:45.800 Well, I think this is going to do it for sure. You 580 00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:50.079 guys seem to get along pretty well. Do you ever argue? Sometimes they 581 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:54.840 were pretty good? Yeah, sometimes, but yeah, we really want. 582 00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:59.519 Yeah, we've we've we've we've got a really good group of people about each 583 00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:04.599 other. But we all come from different backgrounds, completely different backgrounds, completely 584 00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.960 different points of view on the topic. But the topic itself draws us together. 585 00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:12.840 We look, we're all interested in different aspects of the topic, and 586 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:19.119 of course we have healthy disagreements where I think this is the theory and this 587 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:21.920 is my theory on what it is, and then one of us will disagree 588 00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:24.840 and we'll have a healthy discussion and we'll both learn or each of us will 589 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:30.599 learn from the other person's point of view. But that's the done thing in 590 00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:35.079 the scientific community, the mainstream scientific community too, where scientists will put out 591 00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:37.760 a theory and someone who also will come along and disprove it. And yeah, 592 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.760 so it's no different. But yes, we do get on. We 593 00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:45.239 love each other, Yeah we do, that's right. We do all have 594 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.960 different perspectives on it, and you know, and sometimes we can we can 595 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.960 flare up with vigorous and healthy discussion about that. But crucially, like on 596 00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:57.599 these road trips when you've all got to be in cars on certain times and 597 00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:00.039 meet at certain locations and things like that. That puts us all under pressure 598 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:04.079 too. And so far the CHIP has been going really really well, and 599 00:45:04.119 --> 00:45:07.280 I think it's going to be a great memory for all of us. Synchronicity, 600 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:09.519 we have a weird synchronicity. It's going on. Well, we don't 601 00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:14.199 have to call each other. We just sort of like think about, well 602 00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:15.880 we have to meet and then we end up meeting with that. Yeah, 603 00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:19.840 we all just kind of arrive at the from different directions. It's keep happening. 604 00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:22.480 Can After the conference, we're heading down to Sokara and New Mexico. 605 00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:25.599 We're doing a bit of work there. We're getting onto the debris field down 606 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:29.719 at Roswell a few other things. Yeah, we do. We're doing a 607 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:35.239 real UFO wrote trip very good. Well, thank you all very much. 608 00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:37.639 It's been a real pleasure and I'm really lad pore willing to do this and 609 00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:44.320 thank you all for thank you every Australiannalysis the shop for me which thank you