The Carpentry Show with Robin Clevert and Festal A passion for high quality power tools
for over ninety five years. Discover the full innovative eighteen volt cordless range at
Festal dot co dot uk. Festal with you every day. Welcome to the
Carpentry Show with Festal on Fixed Radio. I'm Robin Clevert and on today's show
I'm talking about materials. That's pretty much everything we use, timber, tools
and all of our consumables. This is something that's so important to get right
when running your own business, as the savvy purchases and relationships you build can
define what kind of money and profit you take home. So I'll talk about
how to source timber, what to bolt buy, what to invest in tool
wise, and when you should do that and more So. In my past
week, I've bought plenty of materials, and generally speaking, I'm buying materials
for the next week, the following week, and maybe even six weeks down
the road, but we'll come onto that later in the show. I've been
doing lots of second fix and I've been putting together cabinets. So the cabinets,
for example, I've bought six weeks ago now they've arrived on site and
I'm putting them all together. But there's loads of other stuff I've bought to
go with that, of course, to actually make it work. Now I
really enjoy the second fixed part of the work. But actually the spring is
here, the sun is coming out. Now I'm looking outside thinking I can't
wait to get back on a roof. So I want to get through this
bit of work that I've got now, because I've got a really nice oak
job coming up as well. So that timber's all bought, I might add,
and it's on site waiting for me. I'm not going to be waiting
for it. I'm going to talk about saucing timber fix radio time to crack
on. You're listening to the Carpentry Show with Festal. I'm Robin Clevitt and
on today's show, I'm talking about sourcing your materials and getting it right.
So let's start with timber. Okay, So where do you start when it
comes to timber yards? Now, it very much depends, I would say,
on where you are in the country. Okay, because where I am
I'm in the southeast, I'm in South London or a little bit further out.
But I'm never any more than two or three miles away from a timber
merchant, believe it or not. If I put a compass down and span
a radius of three or four miles, I've probably got four or five timber
merchants. Okay, So I've got a lot to choose from. So let's
first of all, for me, it's all about you know where I am
at the time. So let's say I've got to go and do a job
somewhere else. Before I even go and look at the job, I might
look at what is around in the area. And the reason for that is
because I think I should buy local when I'm working somewhere. So if I'm
going to travel, say fifty miles for a job, which is unlikely for
me, but if I was, I'd i'd see what's around. I'd see
which merchants are around. I'd look on their websites, and i would sort
of see what do they stock, what do they carry, what are their
prices like as well, and then I'd start building a picture in my mind.
And so when I was going to price to work, i'd probably allow
a bit of time as well to see the and go to one of the
local timber merchants, especially if it's one I'm already using. It might be
a chain, it might be a national chain, and I'd go and familiarize
myself with the merchant. Okay, So I'd go there and i'd sort of
have a look round and see the stock, and then I would get some
rough prices while I was there, asking what their lead times are, like
how long is it before I can get a delivery? And I'd just make
some friends. Okay, So talking to making friends, who should you make
friends with at the timber yard? Now, that very much depends on how
much you know about what you need. So if you know you need to
go in and buy structural carpentry timber, it says on the drawing you need
C twenty four one fifty by twenty five or one fifty by fifty, you're
going to go in there. You're going to know what you want. You're
going to say, can you show me. You'll go and have a look
at their stock, and you might meet a salesman in the yards and you
might hit it off. But the people that you really want to make friends
are the guys who can press the discount button on that computer. The guys
have got the authority that you can justify that you're a trade tradesman. You
can prove that you're a trade and you want to get their name, their
number, and say right, give me a cost for this, get a
name. So when you call them up, you say, hi, John,
I came in last week. You show me around the timber yard.
I've got this timber I'd like to go ahead with it. Can you do
it at that price? Or even is that the best you can do on
the price, because that little comment sometimes means they might have another little look
at it, and it might just be that they've just had a massive stock
coming and they can be a bit keener on the price if it's something that
they've not got a lot in stock where they don't want to sell it to
you cheap. So there's so many factors and variables. That's why you probably
need a timber yard here and one down the road to at least have a
couple of choices of price. Okay, So what can a good timberyard do
for you on price if you give them repeat business? Now, it's a
little bit like when a customer comes to me and says, oh, I
want you to come and do this door and you think I'm a door.
They say, but we are going to build a house in two years time.
They kind of tempt you with something I don't think that's a good thing
to do. Is go into a timber bush and say, by the way,
can you give me this really cheap because I'll give you this job that
I'm going to get down the road. Because they just have they've heard it
all before. The best thing you can do is sort of go in there
and say, look, I'm going to be here for six weeks. Be
honest with them. I'm only here for six weeks. While i'm here,
i'd really like you to help me, work with me, and you'd be
surprised. They'll bend over backwards because I think this guy's being honest with us.
He's coming into our area, he doesn't really know many people. He
wants a good service. Let's give him a good service. So providing you
pay for the stuff in a timely fashion, don't ask them for anything unreasonable
like oh, I want to buy it today and have it delivered this afternoon.
Be realistic, and you'd be surprised the amount of help that strangers will
give you. I know you're buying from them. I know you're effectively paying
their wages, but you'd be surprised just how nice a little bit of politeness
will go if you like. So what are some good ways of specific types
of wood? Well, let's start with the internet. Okay, let's start
with going online. You in your administration time. It might be in the
evening, might be first thing in the morning. Let's say you're looking for
some hardwood. Now that's a classic because a lot of timber merchants won't stock
many hardwoods. They might have a bit of American white oak, a little
bit of luan, which is kind of like a cheap form of mahogany or
something like that, a bit of ash if you're lucky. So if you
want something particular, let's say you'll a bit of beach, you're not going
to just turn up at a timber merchant and find what you need. So
that's the sort of thing that you do need to go online in good time,
and the prices will vary wildly because the species vary wildly. The quality
varies wildly as well, So it's a whole education that you need to learn.
So along with looking for that material in good time, you need to
understand if you're buying cedar, for example, it's a cedar that is super
durable, because believe it or not, some cedars aren't. Okay, after
some more music, I'll talk about building relationships with merchants and buying in different
quantities The Carpentry Show on Fixed Radio. I'm Robin Clevitt on The Carpentry Show
with Festival, and I'm talking about sourcing materials for your business this afternoon.
What should you buy in large quantities and why? Okay, this is a
really good one. Now that will depend very much on the work that you've
got coming up, but I've sort of found from experience. If you're in
the business, for example, making wardrobes, and you go out on site
and you cut everything from raw materials let's say MDF board, and you're always
using eighteen mil MDF, then why don't you forward buy a whole pack?
So you could go into your merchant and you could say, can you give
me a pack price for eighteen mil let's say medi MDF something that you really
like the look of or really like using, and you'd be surprised that they'd
be happy to sell you a pack or give you pack prices, providing that
you know, you show your hand. You might have to pay for half
of it now, but you can call it off. They don't expect you
to take it away with them all there and then, and a lot of
merchants will hold stock for you, okay. So often, if I've got
a lot of roof construction work, I will forward buy all my carcassing material.
I might say I want a thousand meters of two hundred and fifty,
I want a thousand meters of one hundred per fifty, and buying in those
quantities, I don't necessarily have to take it there and then. Because they're
happy to hold that stock for me, they I can just call it off.
They even sometimes call it off and deliver it in smaller quantities for me.
But you can save a lot of money. So if your business like
me, I love doing roofing. You know that I love going out and
building roofs, and I've got a few coming up, I would go and
probably buy two or three grands worth of sawn, carcassing, book some different
stuff and call it off. I know for a fact that I'm going to
order enough to do three or four roofs, and my materials that I'm pricing
those roofs at are the going rate. Okay, So if one hundred by
fifty, say one pound eighty six a meter, I want to buy it
at one pound thirty six a meter. I need at least twenty twenty five
percent on it just to allow for the normal sort of aggravation you get with
timber. Okay, So I would look at that. If you're building wardrobes,
look at buying a pack of MDF or similar material that you use on
a regular basis. If you're in second fixing, you could always forward by
doors. Maybe if you always use the same doors, it's worth looking into.
Believe it or not, it's worth looking into. So what should you
be buying at builders merchants? Okay? And of that stuff, what's better
to look online or from other wholesalers. Now we can all get sucked into
price matching stuff. I mean talk about customers. They're always doing it,
and that's so annoying. So for example, someone says, oh, can
you supply to topsaw to sort of bulk out the garden or something like.
This is just an example, And so you go online you find you I
can pay a hundred pounds a ton, and you say it's one hundred pounds
a tons. They say, oh no, we can. We found it
for eighty six. And then you go and then you start going down a
rabbit hole, and then you realize that all these materials vary, somes rubbish,
somes good. So I think that as long, I think it's best
to go and see the merchants. I think, go in there, see
the material. MDF a casing point. I mean, so much MDF is
not that good. To be honest, you know, you really do need
to get a good brand because you can buy it cheap. You can get
it for twenty quit a sheet if someone else is thirty. But it's not
very nice to work with. So I honestly think that sometimes you, as
I say, get back into the merchants, the timber merchants, the builders
merchants, see the material that you're actually going to buy, because you might
book it online. Insulations a classic. There's lots of insulation companies selling online.
Now there's nothing wrong with their products, but they might sell, for
example, one hundred mill PR. They don't tell you what brand it is,
and in their tea sencies it says it could come from a number of
brands wherever they're able to get it from. I suppose at the rest at
the best price. But I know from using that gear that I like a
particular brand of pi R because it cuts better, it seems to produce less
dust. But the boards are nice and flats. So there's so many things
to really really think about when you're looking online or seeing what you should buy
it at builders merchants. Okay, So how do you go about avoiding unnecessary
trips to merchants? Okay? For materials? Now, we try our best
to have enough material on site without going overboard and having stuff left, or
we'll make sure we've got the fixings that we need. But there will be
times that you get to ten o'clock in the morning you think, oh,
no, I've just run out of doorstop because one bit was bendy. Okay,
so it's out of your controls, so you need to go out and
physically get it. Now. That's a bit of a shame, that is.
But sometimes what I do is then think how can I couple that into
a trip which is going to make me a bit of money. So I
might go down and think, well, while I'm at the merchant to pick
this up. I'm going to ask him about the next job. So I'm
doing something else. I'm trying to find a good reason to go there.
The other way of avoiding unnecessary trips to merchants is make a little list,
you know, make a shopping list on site as you're going during the day,
and when you get back you can possibly order it or pre buy it
to pick up. If it's small consumables your screws, your glue, all
your fixtures and fittings and that sort of stuff, and you could probably buy
it online. And some of the big chains, you know, your screw
fixed and tool stations, you can easily go there in the morning. Some
of them are open twenty four hours a day in South London, I've heard,
and you can pick it up which is really good as well or equally
on the way home. Some places are open till say five five thirty or
later. So I think that's what I would do to avoid a necessary trip.
So coming up tools, how do you make sure what you're buying is
a worthwhile investment and getting doors and other large scale materials for work. You're
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number one on site. The Carpenter Show with Robin Clevitt and Festal. A
passion for high quality power tools for over ninety five years. Discover the full
innovative eighteen volt cordless range at Festal dot co dot uk. Festal with you
every day fixed Radio. This is the Carpentry Show with Festival. I'm Robin
Clevitt, and this afternoon, I'm talking about sourcing materials for your business and
getting the best price possible. So getting precut doors, let's take that for
example. So I always buy loads of precut sort of board material. If
you've watched any of my content on YouTube, you will know that I outsource
a lot of that stuff, and I do it in good time, and
I really enjoy it when it turns up. And I've got all these beautiful
MDF panels, for example, they're all exactly cut to within point one of
a millimet in any direction. They're dimensionally stable. If it's bare MDF and
it's going to be painted, I have it all spray primed as well,
and I have a radius preparation tape put on the edges as well, So
these things look like they come out of a joinary factory effectively. And all
I'm buying is the board, and I'm paying a little bit to have them
edged and the cuts so and it gets delivered to pay for your delivery,
for example. But when you add all that up, the precut door,
for example, I've just had seventeen doors made exactly the same size twenty two
millimeter MDF they are all the same size, but they could have equally been
all different sizes. The price wouldn't have varied that much. All I'm paying
for is the sheets, and when it arrives on site, I've even got
the hinge holes drilled, so for the adjustable cabinet hinges, all those holes
are drilled for me. I have to do is clip them in, screw
the plates on the frames, and they're hung. So I like to do
that because I can clearly make a little bit of profit. If those doors
work out that they cost me twenty six to fifty each for seventeen doors,
my customer would be happy to pay thirty five pounds for those doors, So
I can make fifteen or twenty percent on those doors, and then obviously the
labor to hang them. So who do you need to build up a relationship
for that sort of stuff. Now, A lot of timber merchants will cut
timber for you. They will cut your panels down. So if you need
a sheet of MDF and you want it in half or in quarters, they
will do it. But don't expect it to be absolutely millimeter perfect. Okay,
it's not a service where it's going to be millimeter perfect. So what
I do in that case if I am in the rare occasion where I think
I need half a sheet or something, I will get them to cut it
down, but I'll trim it when I get back on site. So yeah,
again, a lot of timber merchants will do it. A merchants will
do it while you wait. If you look after them and you're a good
client to them, they'll do that for you. So you need to build
a good relationship with a local merchant who can do that sort of stuff for
you. So let's talk about the profit again. I did mention the doors,
you know, the twenty six fifty, and I might sell them for
thirty five pounds, and even my customer, I still think that's reasonable.
I could have probably pushed it and doubled that to fifty four pounds a door.
It's all about how you present it. So I do think that we
have every right to make a profit. If we're buying something and selling it
on, we have every right to make a profit. And the labor.
We should always be transparent about the labor and say you know this is we
charge X amount an hour a week a month, and you know we can't
do any more than that, okay, But I do think that the profit
is somewhere is generally on the material is where you want to add and add
some value and get some new some new money in basically. So. Sam
Thomas, who joined me on the show last week, talked about how customers
think they can get a good deal as week and at trade counters, and
some can. Some are so persistent they would go in there and they would
just manage to wear down, wear down the salespeople until the salespeople just give
them a piece of paper say, oh, there's it. That's the bottom
line. Basically, So, why is it important to control our own materials?
Okay? So if we all get that sort of scenario, the client
says, I want to buy the materials, you know, I want to
go and find the best deal. It's so annoying because they don't really know
anything about the materials. Even if you give them a list and say I
want this bit of this bit of material that bit material, They're going to
go and shop around them by any old stuff, you know, and it's
going to turn up and it's going to be no good. And if it
is no good and you've got bent MDF and you've got bad skirting boards that
are cupped and twisted, they've got splits down them. It's going to make
our jobs harder. So maybe you want to say, if I do the
supply and fix, this is my labor rate. If you supply, my
labor rates a little bit more, and then they can make a choice without
being sort of nasty to them. They can make the choice. And quite
often I say to my customer, I will get you the best price.
I will supply the material, but it's ten percent handling fee. And most
people say, oh, I don't want the aggravation. I'm happy to give
you ten percent. Again, you're transparent. You say there's the timber receipt
eleven hundred pounds and you owe me one hundred and ten. All right,
So that's basically what I would say is a good fair way of going about
it, offering them some discount, but equally making a little bit of profit
on it for the work that we've had to do. Okay, so let's
talk about tools. What kind of money should we spend a year on tools.
Let's say you're a carpenter and you're trying to make forty or fifty k
year turnover okay, so a thousand pounds a week in in labor effectively,
So out of our earnings, we've got to spend money on tools, not
just tools, but all of our other things like the work where health and
safety so and our fans of course. So what should we spend a year
on tools? Now? I think we should always make sure our tools are
up to date and sharpen and working properly. But I mean trying to put
a figure on it. I think that it should be at least five percent.
Okay, so two and a half k that sort of order. So
if you break that down, that's about fifty quid a week on tools.
So you think you can't get a lot for fifty quid, but no,
But every ten weeks you might have to spend five hundred quid. You might
have to replace a jigsaw, you might have to change an electric plane,
or buy some new hand tools. But I think that's really what we're actually
looking at. But it is tax deductible, of course, and we need
them to do the work. We've just got to hang onto them. Don't
let anyone steal them from this, okay, So how can we avoid making
purchases that we will regret. Now, I'll give you an example. I
was on eBay late one and I thought, I need a little dumper to
drive around and move some stuff at home. It will last me for the
job, and I'll sell it at the end. And I got into a
bit of a bidding war with someone and I bought it under the influence of
alcohol. Now that thing is in my garage and it starts and it only
drives forwards and backwards. It doesn't go up slopes or anything like that.
And even the bucket doesn't really work that well. And it's a real embarrassment
to me, to the point where I know Rebecca won't be listening to this.
She'll probably be busy this lunchtime so she won't be listening to this.
So I will tell you that I'm shamed about this, and she doesn't even
know how much it's cost me or her. Effectively, our money is our
money. So there you go. Don't tell her if you see her.
Okay, I'm going to try and move it or at some point. Okay,
So I'll wrap this topic up before four pm, So don't go anywhere.
The Carpentry Show on Fix Radio, I'm Robin Clevitt bringing the Carpentry Show
to an end where I've talked about some good business practices when it comes to
sourcing materials. So what is and what isn't negotiation when it comes to materials
a case as as if we'd been haggled on price. You know, when
someone says to us, how much to hang those doors? Okay, oh,
I think you should do it for this. You know, when people
start haggling, you're just like, oh, I'm just not interested. And
I think it's a little bit like that in the supply world as well,
especially in a buoyant marketplace. We've had a very very good run in the
last couple of years, at least since COVID restriction eased up. Even during
COVID for us, actually, you know, people still wanted a lot of
work doing the builders stayed at work. So I just think that when you're
going to builders merchants, it's not all about haggling. What it's about is
forearming yourself with the knowledge of how much everything's going to cost. So if
you haven't bought a particular material for a while before you go in price a
job, thinking the materials be one hundred quid by labors three hundred quid and
then you go and find out the materials one hundred and fifty pounds because it's
gone up or it's short supply. Just check that first. If you can
find the time, call the merchant before you say to the client the materials
one hundred and fifty quid or equally, just say to the client, materials
are going to be at cost plus ten percent, like I mentioned a little
while earlier. So that's I mean, there's so much to talk about when
it comes to material but as I say, my personal view on it is,
make sure you've done your research, make sure you've done your homework.
Try not to buy rubbish, try to buy good, reliable products. And
there's some good news that I've read recently. I saw an article with a
graph and the graph was talking about construction timber and the prices and the supply
of And so we've got the Ukraine issue which is still bubbling away, of
course, and we've had COVID and that had a big, big impact on
the supply chain. But the prices are now coming back down to sort of
pre pandemic levels on certain timber products. This is the mainstream softwards, construction
softwards and that sort of stuff, so I'm really chuffed about that. So
that should ease our lives going forward. And if you're really astute, if
you carry on price in the work light. I've been priced at the higher
timber prices and your clients are happy. You will make some money because instead
of two pounds a meter, it's going to be one pounds twenty, which
great, which means you're going to make forty percent on those materials. So
that's a really, really good thing. It's been a great afternoon talking to
you all, and I would like to give a shout out to our Australian
listeners. Believe it or not, I've had a couple of messages in the
last couple of weeks from two separate people from Australia saying that the guys on
site have also got the podcasts on. I think the timing is a little
bit different for them, but I think one of the shows works for them.
It's either the tenant night or it's not. It's not the afternoon shows,
but it's the ten at night. But anyway, thanks to all of
our Australian and overseas listeners, we really like having you. So that's it
for today's show, you can hear it again with more great music from ten
o'clock on fixed radio. This and all my previous episodes are available as podcasts
on all major streaming services. Next week I'll be joined by Richard Wagner,
who runs classes from his amazing workshop in London in woodworking for the general public.
Coming up next to take you home are Trevor rich with down Tools,
So I'll leave you with blur Park Life