WEBVTT

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The Carpentry Show with Robin Clevert and
Festal A passion for high quality power tools

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for over ninety five years. Discover
the full innovative eighteen volt cordless range at

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Festal dot co dot uk. Festal
with you every day. Welcome to the

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Carpentry Show with Festal on Fixed Radio. I'm Robin Clevert and on today's show

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I'm talking about materials. That's pretty
much everything we use, timber, tools

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and all of our consumables. This
is something that's so important to get right

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when running your own business, as
the savvy purchases and relationships you build can

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define what kind of money and profit
you take home. So I'll talk about

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how to source timber, what to
bolt buy, what to invest in tool

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wise, and when you should do
that and more So. In my past

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week, I've bought plenty of materials, and generally speaking, I'm buying materials

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for the next week, the following
week, and maybe even six weeks down

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the road, but we'll come onto
that later in the show. I've been

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doing lots of second fix and I've
been putting together cabinets. So the cabinets,

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for example, I've bought six weeks
ago now they've arrived on site and

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I'm putting them all together. But
there's loads of other stuff I've bought to

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go with that, of course,
to actually make it work. Now I

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really enjoy the second fixed part of
the work. But actually the spring is

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here, the sun is coming out. Now I'm looking outside thinking I can't

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wait to get back on a roof. So I want to get through this

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bit of work that I've got now, because I've got a really nice oak

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job coming up as well. So
that timber's all bought, I might add,

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and it's on site waiting for me. I'm not going to be waiting

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for it. I'm going to talk
about saucing timber fix radio time to crack

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on. You're listening to the Carpentry
Show with Festal. I'm Robin Clevitt and

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on today's show, I'm talking about
sourcing your materials and getting it right.

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So let's start with timber. Okay, So where do you start when it

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comes to timber yards? Now,
it very much depends, I would say,

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on where you are in the country. Okay, because where I am

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I'm in the southeast, I'm in
South London or a little bit further out.

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But I'm never any more than two
or three miles away from a timber

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merchant, believe it or not.
If I put a compass down and span

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a radius of three or four miles, I've probably got four or five timber

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merchants. Okay, So I've got
a lot to choose from. So let's

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first of all, for me,
it's all about you know where I am

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at the time. So let's say
I've got to go and do a job

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somewhere else. Before I even go
and look at the job, I might

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look at what is around in the
area. And the reason for that is

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because I think I should buy local
when I'm working somewhere. So if I'm

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going to travel, say fifty miles
for a job, which is unlikely for

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me, but if I was,
I'd i'd see what's around. I'd see

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which merchants are around. I'd look
on their websites, and i would sort

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of see what do they stock,
what do they carry, what are their

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prices like as well, and then
I'd start building a picture in my mind.

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And so when I was going to
price to work, i'd probably allow

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a bit of time as well to
see the and go to one of the

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local timber merchants, especially if it's
one I'm already using. It might be

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a chain, it might be a
national chain, and I'd go and familiarize

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myself with the merchant. Okay,
So I'd go there and i'd sort of

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have a look round and see the
stock, and then I would get some

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rough prices while I was there,
asking what their lead times are, like

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how long is it before I can
get a delivery? And I'd just make

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some friends. Okay, So talking
to making friends, who should you make

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friends with at the timber yard?
Now, that very much depends on how

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much you know about what you need. So if you know you need to

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go in and buy structural carpentry timber, it says on the drawing you need

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C twenty four one fifty by twenty
five or one fifty by fifty, you're

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going to go in there. You're
going to know what you want. You're

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going to say, can you show
me. You'll go and have a look

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at their stock, and you might
meet a salesman in the yards and you

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might hit it off. But the
people that you really want to make friends

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are the guys who can press the
discount button on that computer. The guys

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have got the authority that you can
justify that you're a trade tradesman. You

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can prove that you're a trade and
you want to get their name, their

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number, and say right, give
me a cost for this, get a

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name. So when you call them
up, you say, hi, John,

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I came in last week. You
show me around the timber yard.

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I've got this timber I'd like to
go ahead with it. Can you do

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it at that price? Or even
is that the best you can do on

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the price, because that little comment
sometimes means they might have another little look

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at it, and it might just
be that they've just had a massive stock

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coming and they can be a bit
keener on the price if it's something that

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they've not got a lot in stock
where they don't want to sell it to

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you cheap. So there's so many
factors and variables. That's why you probably

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need a timber yard here and one
down the road to at least have a

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couple of choices of price. Okay, So what can a good timberyard do

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for you on price if you give
them repeat business? Now, it's a

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little bit like when a customer comes
to me and says, oh, I

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want you to come and do this
door and you think I'm a door.

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They say, but we are going
to build a house in two years time.

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They kind of tempt you with something
I don't think that's a good thing

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to do. Is go into a
timber bush and say, by the way,

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can you give me this really cheap
because I'll give you this job that

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I'm going to get down the road. Because they just have they've heard it

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all before. The best thing you
can do is sort of go in there

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and say, look, I'm going
to be here for six weeks. Be

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honest with them. I'm only here
for six weeks. While i'm here,

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i'd really like you to help me, work with me, and you'd be

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surprised. They'll bend over backwards because
I think this guy's being honest with us.

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He's coming into our area, he
doesn't really know many people. He

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wants a good service. Let's give
him a good service. So providing you

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pay for the stuff in a timely
fashion, don't ask them for anything unreasonable

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like oh, I want to buy
it today and have it delivered this afternoon.

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Be realistic, and you'd be surprised
the amount of help that strangers will

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give you. I know you're buying
from them. I know you're effectively paying

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their wages, but you'd be surprised
just how nice a little bit of politeness

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will go if you like. So
what are some good ways of specific types

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of wood? Well, let's start
with the internet. Okay, let's start

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with going online. You in your
administration time. It might be in the

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evening, might be first thing in
the morning. Let's say you're looking for

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some hardwood. Now that's a classic
because a lot of timber merchants won't stock

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many hardwoods. They might have a
bit of American white oak, a little

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bit of luan, which is kind
of like a cheap form of mahogany or

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something like that, a bit of
ash if you're lucky. So if you

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want something particular, let's say you'll
a bit of beach, you're not going

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to just turn up at a timber
merchant and find what you need. So

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that's the sort of thing that you
do need to go online in good time,

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and the prices will vary wildly because
the species vary wildly. The quality

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varies wildly as well, So it's
a whole education that you need to learn.

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So along with looking for that material
in good time, you need to

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understand if you're buying cedar, for
example, it's a cedar that is super

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durable, because believe it or not, some cedars aren't. Okay, after

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some more music, I'll talk about
building relationships with merchants and buying in different

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quantities The Carpentry Show on Fixed Radio. I'm Robin Clevitt on The Carpentry Show

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with Festival, and I'm talking about
sourcing materials for your business this afternoon.

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What should you buy in large quantities
and why? Okay, this is a

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really good one. Now that will
depend very much on the work that you've

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got coming up, but I've sort
of found from experience. If you're in

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the business, for example, making
wardrobes, and you go out on site

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and you cut everything from raw materials
let's say MDF board, and you're always

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using eighteen mil MDF, then why
don't you forward buy a whole pack?

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So you could go into your merchant
and you could say, can you give

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me a pack price for eighteen mil
let's say medi MDF something that you really

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like the look of or really like
using, and you'd be surprised that they'd

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be happy to sell you a pack
or give you pack prices, providing that

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you know, you show your hand. You might have to pay for half

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of it now, but you can
call it off. They don't expect you

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to take it away with them all
there and then, and a lot of

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merchants will hold stock for you,
okay. So often, if I've got

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a lot of roof construction work,
I will forward buy all my carcassing material.

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I might say I want a thousand
meters of two hundred and fifty,

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I want a thousand meters of one
hundred per fifty, and buying in those

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quantities, I don't necessarily have to
take it there and then. Because they're

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happy to hold that stock for me, they I can just call it off.

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They even sometimes call it off and
deliver it in smaller quantities for me.

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But you can save a lot of
money. So if your business like

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me, I love doing roofing.
You know that I love going out and

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building roofs, and I've got a
few coming up, I would go and

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probably buy two or three grands worth
of sawn, carcassing, book some different

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stuff and call it off. I
know for a fact that I'm going to

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order enough to do three or four
roofs, and my materials that I'm pricing

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those roofs at are the going rate. Okay, So if one hundred by

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fifty, say one pound eighty six
a meter, I want to buy it

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at one pound thirty six a meter. I need at least twenty twenty five

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percent on it just to allow for
the normal sort of aggravation you get with

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timber. Okay, So I would
look at that. If you're building wardrobes,

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look at buying a pack of MDF
or similar material that you use on

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a regular basis. If you're in
second fixing, you could always forward by

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doors. Maybe if you always use
the same doors, it's worth looking into.

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Believe it or not, it's worth
looking into. So what should you

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be buying at builders merchants? Okay? And of that stuff, what's better

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to look online or from other wholesalers. Now we can all get sucked into

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price matching stuff. I mean talk
about customers. They're always doing it,

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and that's so annoying. So for
example, someone says, oh, can

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you supply to topsaw to sort of
bulk out the garden or something like.

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This is just an example, And
so you go online you find you I

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can pay a hundred pounds a ton, and you say it's one hundred pounds

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a tons. They say, oh
no, we can. We found it

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for eighty six. And then you
go and then you start going down a

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rabbit hole, and then you realize
that all these materials vary, somes rubbish,

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somes good. So I think that
as long, I think it's best

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to go and see the merchants.
I think, go in there, see

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the material. MDF a casing point. I mean, so much MDF is

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not that good. To be honest, you know, you really do need

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to get a good brand because you
can buy it cheap. You can get

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it for twenty quit a sheet if
someone else is thirty. But it's not

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very nice to work with. So
I honestly think that sometimes you, as

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I say, get back into the
merchants, the timber merchants, the builders

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merchants, see the material that you're
actually going to buy, because you might

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book it online. Insulations a classic. There's lots of insulation companies selling online.

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Now there's nothing wrong with their products, but they might sell, for

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example, one hundred mill PR.
They don't tell you what brand it is,

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and in their tea sencies it says
it could come from a number of

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brands wherever they're able to get it
from. I suppose at the rest at

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the best price. But I know
from using that gear that I like a

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particular brand of pi R because it
cuts better, it seems to produce less

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dust. But the boards are nice
and flats. So there's so many things

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to really really think about when you're
looking online or seeing what you should buy

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it at builders merchants. Okay,
So how do you go about avoiding unnecessary

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trips to merchants? Okay? For
materials? Now, we try our best

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to have enough material on site without
going overboard and having stuff left, or

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we'll make sure we've got the fixings
that we need. But there will be

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times that you get to ten o'clock
in the morning you think, oh,

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no, I've just run out of
doorstop because one bit was bendy. Okay,

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so it's out of your controls,
so you need to go out and

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physically get it. Now. That's
a bit of a shame, that is.

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But sometimes what I do is then
think how can I couple that into

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a trip which is going to make
me a bit of money. So I

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might go down and think, well, while I'm at the merchant to pick

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this up. I'm going to ask
him about the next job. So I'm

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doing something else. I'm trying to
find a good reason to go there.

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The other way of avoiding unnecessary trips
to merchants is make a little list,

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you know, make a shopping list
on site as you're going during the day,

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and when you get back you can
possibly order it or pre buy it

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to pick up. If it's small
consumables your screws, your glue, all

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your fixtures and fittings and that sort
of stuff, and you could probably buy

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it online. And some of the
big chains, you know, your screw

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fixed and tool stations, you can
easily go there in the morning. Some

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of them are open twenty four hours
a day in South London, I've heard,

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and you can pick it up which
is really good as well or equally

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on the way home. Some places
are open till say five five thirty or

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later. So I think that's what
I would do to avoid a necessary trip.

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So coming up tools, how do
you make sure what you're buying is

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a worthwhile investment and getting doors and
other large scale materials for work. You're

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listening to fix radio the builders station
fixed radio Fix Radio is getting onto more

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and more sites up and down the
UK, but we're now aiming to be

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number one and we can't do it
without you. We need your help to

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spread the word about the Builders Station
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for the trade. So we want
to make your site officially Fixed Radio approved.

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That means telling your workmates, the
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customer to keep the site radio lock
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Then get tagging us on the socials
and show us some love. In return,

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we'll show some love back with stacks
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fixed Radio approof site. Text fixed
fan to eighty one four hundred now and

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we could get you on air and
a load of our merch out to your

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site today. That's fixed fan to
eighty one four hundred to help make us

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number one on site. The Carpenter
Show with Robin Clevitt and Festal. A

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00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:52.679
passion for high quality power tools for
over ninety five years. Discover the full

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00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:56.879
innovative eighteen volt cordless range at Festal
dot co dot uk. Festal with you

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00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.639
every day fixed Radio. This is
the Carpentry Show with Festival. I'm Robin

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00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:07.200
Clevitt, and this afternoon, I'm
talking about sourcing materials for your business and

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getting the best price possible. So
getting precut doors, let's take that for

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example. So I always buy loads
of precut sort of board material. If

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you've watched any of my content on
YouTube, you will know that I outsource

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a lot of that stuff, and
I do it in good time, and

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I really enjoy it when it turns
up. And I've got all these beautiful

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MDF panels, for example, they're
all exactly cut to within point one of

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a millimet in any direction. They're
dimensionally stable. If it's bare MDF and

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it's going to be painted, I
have it all spray primed as well,

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and I have a radius preparation tape
put on the edges as well, So

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these things look like they come out
of a joinary factory effectively. And all

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I'm buying is the board, and
I'm paying a little bit to have them

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edged and the cuts so and it
gets delivered to pay for your delivery,

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for example. But when you add
all that up, the precut door,

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for example, I've just had seventeen
doors made exactly the same size twenty two

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millimeter MDF they are all the same
size, but they could have equally been

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all different sizes. The price wouldn't
have varied that much. All I'm paying

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for is the sheets, and when
it arrives on site, I've even got

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the hinge holes drilled, so for
the adjustable cabinet hinges, all those holes

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are drilled for me. I have
to do is clip them in, screw

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the plates on the frames, and
they're hung. So I like to do

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that because I can clearly make a
little bit of profit. If those doors

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work out that they cost me twenty
six to fifty each for seventeen doors,

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my customer would be happy to pay
thirty five pounds for those doors, So

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I can make fifteen or twenty percent
on those doors, and then obviously the

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labor to hang them. So who
do you need to build up a relationship

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for that sort of stuff. Now, A lot of timber merchants will cut

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timber for you. They will cut
your panels down. So if you need

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a sheet of MDF and you want
it in half or in quarters, they

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will do it. But don't expect
it to be absolutely millimeter perfect. Okay,

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it's not a service where it's going
to be millimeter perfect. So what

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I do in that case if I
am in the rare occasion where I think

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I need half a sheet or something, I will get them to cut it

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down, but I'll trim it when
I get back on site. So yeah,

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again, a lot of timber merchants
will do it. A merchants will

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do it while you wait. If
you look after them and you're a good

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client to them, they'll do that
for you. So you need to build

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a good relationship with a local merchant
who can do that sort of stuff for

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you. So let's talk about the
profit again. I did mention the doors,

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you know, the twenty six fifty, and I might sell them for

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thirty five pounds, and even my
customer, I still think that's reasonable.

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I could have probably pushed it and
doubled that to fifty four pounds a door.

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It's all about how you present it. So I do think that we

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have every right to make a profit. If we're buying something and selling it

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on, we have every right to
make a profit. And the labor.

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We should always be transparent about the
labor and say you know this is we

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charge X amount an hour a week
a month, and you know we can't

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do any more than that, okay, But I do think that the profit

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is somewhere is generally on the material
is where you want to add and add

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some value and get some new some
new money in basically. So. Sam

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Thomas, who joined me on the
show last week, talked about how customers

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think they can get a good deal
as week and at trade counters, and

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some can. Some are so persistent
they would go in there and they would

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just manage to wear down, wear
down the salespeople until the salespeople just give

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them a piece of paper say,
oh, there's it. That's the bottom

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line. Basically, So, why
is it important to control our own materials?

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Okay? So if we all get
that sort of scenario, the client

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says, I want to buy the
materials, you know, I want to

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go and find the best deal.
It's so annoying because they don't really know

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anything about the materials. Even if
you give them a list and say I

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want this bit of this bit of
material that bit material, They're going to

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go and shop around them by any
old stuff, you know, and it's

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going to turn up and it's going
to be no good. And if it

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is no good and you've got bent
MDF and you've got bad skirting boards that

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are cupped and twisted, they've got
splits down them. It's going to make

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our jobs harder. So maybe you
want to say, if I do the

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supply and fix, this is my
labor rate. If you supply, my

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labor rates a little bit more,
and then they can make a choice without

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being sort of nasty to them.
They can make the choice. And quite

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often I say to my customer,
I will get you the best price.

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I will supply the material, but
it's ten percent handling fee. And most

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people say, oh, I don't
want the aggravation. I'm happy to give

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you ten percent. Again, you're
transparent. You say there's the timber receipt

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eleven hundred pounds and you owe me
one hundred and ten. All right,

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So that's basically what I would say
is a good fair way of going about

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it, offering them some discount,
but equally making a little bit of profit

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on it for the work that we've
had to do. Okay, so let's

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talk about tools. What kind of
money should we spend a year on tools.

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Let's say you're a carpenter and you're
trying to make forty or fifty k

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year turnover okay, so a thousand
pounds a week in in labor effectively,

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So out of our earnings, we've
got to spend money on tools, not

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just tools, but all of our
other things like the work where health and

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safety so and our fans of course. So what should we spend a year

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on tools? Now? I think
we should always make sure our tools are

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up to date and sharpen and working
properly. But I mean trying to put

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a figure on it. I think
that it should be at least five percent.

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Okay, so two and a half
k that sort of order. So

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if you break that down, that's
about fifty quid a week on tools.

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So you think you can't get a
lot for fifty quid, but no,

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But every ten weeks you might have
to spend five hundred quid. You might

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have to replace a jigsaw, you
might have to change an electric plane,

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or buy some new hand tools.
But I think that's really what we're actually

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looking at. But it is tax
deductible, of course, and we need

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them to do the work. We've
just got to hang onto them. Don't

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let anyone steal them from this,
okay, So how can we avoid making

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purchases that we will regret. Now, I'll give you an example. I

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00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.000
was on eBay late one and I
thought, I need a little dumper to

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drive around and move some stuff at
home. It will last me for the

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job, and I'll sell it at
the end. And I got into a

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00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.359
bit of a bidding war with someone
and I bought it under the influence of

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alcohol. Now that thing is in
my garage and it starts and it only

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00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.400
drives forwards and backwards. It doesn't
go up slopes or anything like that.

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And even the bucket doesn't really work
that well. And it's a real embarrassment

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to me, to the point where
I know Rebecca won't be listening to this.

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She'll probably be busy this lunchtime so
she won't be listening to this.

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So I will tell you that I'm
shamed about this, and she doesn't even

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know how much it's cost me or
her. Effectively, our money is our

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money. So there you go.
Don't tell her if you see her.

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Okay, I'm going to try and
move it or at some point. Okay,

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So I'll wrap this topic up before
four pm, So don't go anywhere.

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The Carpentry Show on Fix Radio,
I'm Robin Clevitt bringing the Carpentry Show

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00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:56.400
to an end where I've talked about
some good business practices when it comes to

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sourcing materials. So what is and
what isn't negotiation when it comes to materials

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00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.519
a case as as if we'd been
haggled on price. You know, when

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someone says to us, how much
to hang those doors? Okay, oh,

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I think you should do it for
this. You know, when people

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start haggling, you're just like,
oh, I'm just not interested. And

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I think it's a little bit like
that in the supply world as well,

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especially in a buoyant marketplace. We've
had a very very good run in the

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last couple of years, at least
since COVID restriction eased up. Even during

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00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:26.960
COVID for us, actually, you
know, people still wanted a lot of

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work doing the builders stayed at work. So I just think that when you're

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going to builders merchants, it's not
all about haggling. What it's about is

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forearming yourself with the knowledge of how
much everything's going to cost. So if

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00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.519
you haven't bought a particular material for
a while before you go in price a

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00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.599
job, thinking the materials be one
hundred quid by labors three hundred quid and

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00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:48.839
then you go and find out the
materials one hundred and fifty pounds because it's

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00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.240
gone up or it's short supply.
Just check that first. If you can

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00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:56.799
find the time, call the merchant
before you say to the client the materials

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00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.319
one hundred and fifty quid or equally, just say to the client, materials

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00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.160
are going to be at cost plus
ten percent, like I mentioned a little

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00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:08.440
while earlier. So that's I mean, there's so much to talk about when

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it comes to material but as I
say, my personal view on it is,

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00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:15.960
make sure you've done your research,
make sure you've done your homework.

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Try not to buy rubbish, try
to buy good, reliable products. And

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there's some good news that I've read
recently. I saw an article with a

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00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:30.119
graph and the graph was talking about
construction timber and the prices and the supply

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00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:33.200
of And so we've got the Ukraine
issue which is still bubbling away, of

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00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:37.799
course, and we've had COVID and
that had a big, big impact on

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00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:42.559
the supply chain. But the prices
are now coming back down to sort of

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pre pandemic levels on certain timber products. This is the mainstream softwards, construction

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00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.920
softwards and that sort of stuff,
so I'm really chuffed about that. So

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that should ease our lives going forward. And if you're really astute, if

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you carry on price in the work
light. I've been priced at the higher

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00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:06.079
timber prices and your clients are happy. You will make some money because instead

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of two pounds a meter, it's
going to be one pounds twenty, which

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great, which means you're going to
make forty percent on those materials. So

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that's a really, really good thing. It's been a great afternoon talking to

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you all, and I would like
to give a shout out to our Australian

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listeners. Believe it or not,
I've had a couple of messages in the

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00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:27.440
last couple of weeks from two separate
people from Australia saying that the guys on

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00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:32.920
site have also got the podcasts on. I think the timing is a little

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00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:34.200
bit different for them, but I
think one of the shows works for them.

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00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:37.759
It's either the tenant night or it's
not. It's not the afternoon shows,

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00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:41.200
but it's the ten at night.
But anyway, thanks to all of

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our Australian and overseas listeners, we
really like having you. So that's it

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00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:49.319
for today's show, you can hear
it again with more great music from ten

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00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:56.000
o'clock on fixed radio. This and
all my previous episodes are available as podcasts

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00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.839
on all major streaming services. Next
week I'll be joined by Richard Wagner,

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00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:07.400
who runs classes from his amazing workshop
in London in woodworking for the general public.

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00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.440
Coming up next to take you home
are Trevor rich with down Tools,

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00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:18.519
So I'll leave you with blur Park
Life