1 00:00:05,759 --> 00:00:09,480 Let's see will have the impossible or whatever I made however improbable must be true. 2 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,279 And it is not a question of a LiPo cultism. What a touch 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,920 of mysticism is to dead? It is vampires. There as a host of 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:28,280 damned souls and hellipots, thy father spirit doomed for a certain term to walk 5 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:34,280 the night here. The old gods aren't dead, and what is the true 6 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:41,359 God? He is dead? Can't complain people assume the time is a strict 7 00:00:41,359 --> 00:00:45,640 progression of cause to effect that action. From a nonlinear, non subjective viewpoint, 8 00:00:45,679 --> 00:00:52,000 it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimy stuff. You're 9 00:00:52,119 --> 00:01:00,079 listening to Paranormal UK Radio renaming Everybody and welcomed to an other edition of the 10 00:01:00,119 --> 00:01:06,920 Paranormal UK Radio show, the Flagship Show here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network. 11 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:11,519 I almost pulled an Irene there and almost flubbed the beginning. She would 12 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:18,400 really tear me a new one for that, but unfortunately she's a little under 13 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,040 the weather so not able to join us tonight. So let's wish her well 14 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,120 and she'll be back for the next show. I think I wore out when 15 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:33,760 I was over there, running around all these different castles and going to Stonehenge 16 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,040 and all these other places. I'll be honest with you, I wish I 17 00:01:38,079 --> 00:01:42,239 was still over there. I had such a good time. It was phenomenal 18 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:49,680 actually doing a show sitting across the table from Irene in the flesh. And 19 00:01:49,799 --> 00:01:53,159 I know I've mentioned this before for those of you who don't know, because 20 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:57,719 Irene and I have been working together for well over ten years on not only 21 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,920 this radio station, but various projects. And yet when I went over there 22 00:02:04,079 --> 00:02:06,840 the beginning of August, that was the first time we ever got to meet 23 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:13,919 in person. So that was an exceptional treat and felt perfectly natural, and 24 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,599 quite honestly, I think this name would love it if I moved over there, 25 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:23,240 which is very tempting. So in any case, I'm back in the 26 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:32,000 States and moving forward, and we have our guest for tonight. I'm really 27 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:38,759 fascinated and ready to talk to this guest. So our guest tonight is Wayne 28 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:46,520 Salmon. Now Wayne It was born in Ohio. He's a novelist, poet, 29 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:54,360 painter, musician, and songwriter. But he is also very much a 30 00:02:54,479 --> 00:03:01,360 philosopher metaphysician, and he's traveled the globes, studied the roots of humanities, 31 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:08,400 many religions, spiritual traditions, and numerous secret societies. For decades, he's 32 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,919 immersed himself in the writings of the world's philosophers, mystics, yogis and wisdom 33 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:20,560 masters. And he has a new book out called The Journey Across Forever, 34 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,560 a magical, provocative odyssey across the ages, around the world, and into 35 00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:31,960 the great beyond. So Wayne, welcome to the program. Thank you very 36 00:03:32,039 --> 00:03:38,360 much. Mark. It's lovely to be here. Now. You're originally from 37 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,159 Ohio, but you're now living over in Ireland. That's correct. Yeah, 38 00:03:43,159 --> 00:03:47,400 I've been here about twenty five years or so. Now my wife is Irish 39 00:03:47,479 --> 00:03:53,319 and so yeah, we were together in the States for many years. I 40 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,360 lived in San Francisco about fifteen years or so. I've also lived in Australia, 41 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,800 Boulder, Colorado, and a few other places we won't go into here. 42 00:04:02,919 --> 00:04:08,400 But I've done a lot of traveling, all right. But this is 43 00:04:08,439 --> 00:04:12,479 where I have where the journey has come and brought me to. Shall we 44 00:04:12,599 --> 00:04:17,439 say, I'm amazed you haven't picked up the Irish accent. No, I 45 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:21,040 wouldn't attempt that. Now you have to stay genuine to your roots, is 46 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:28,240 my opinion on that. See, I'm a chameleon. Whenever I've go places 47 00:04:28,319 --> 00:04:31,319 and I get immersed in a culture, if it has a different accent, 48 00:04:31,879 --> 00:04:39,000 I just naturally start acquiring it. I spent a month in Oklahoma once working 49 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:44,319 on a movie, and I came back with the worst Midwestern twang that took 50 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,800 me about a whole month to be able to get rid of. Didn't pick 51 00:04:47,879 --> 00:04:53,720 up the English while I was over there, because there's so many different accents 52 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:58,839 depending on where you're at, especially where I was in Wales. So like 53 00:04:58,959 --> 00:05:03,279 that, by the way, have like areas where the accents are very different. 54 00:05:03,319 --> 00:05:11,319 So it's quite quite interesting to learn to recognize where persons from just from 55 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,800 their accent. Here true true with all the different counties and different sections of 56 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,360 Yeah, I mean, you travel over to the next county over and they're 57 00:05:21,399 --> 00:05:28,759 speaking completely different. So let's talk a little bit. You've got your book 58 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:35,120 journey across Forever. You're an author not only of non fiction but fiction books 59 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:42,160 as well. Yes, my first four books are fiction, and they are 60 00:05:42,319 --> 00:05:49,839 thrillers with a lot of metaphysical and spiritual things woven into them. But at 61 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:56,680 the same time, because they're thrillers. There's a lot of the dark side 62 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:02,639 there as well. But I think you know, we're holistic beings and we 63 00:06:02,879 --> 00:06:08,519 live in a very dualistic world. So you've got the light and the dark, 64 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,959 the good and the evil, and I tried to make the Journey Across 65 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:20,879 Forever reflect that as well, because there's there's so many things that can be 66 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:27,639 disturbing in our world, as everyone knows, like America right now is a 67 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:34,639 very divided politically, and there's just so many different ways of looking at life. 68 00:06:34,879 --> 00:06:41,680 But you're always going to be this broad spectrum with the light and the 69 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:46,160 dark and the good and the evil at each end. And so I wanted 70 00:06:46,199 --> 00:06:49,199 to make the Journey Across Forever entertaining though at the same time. So there's 71 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:56,360 there's great depth and profound insights, a lot of travel adventures though as well, 72 00:06:56,519 --> 00:07:00,800 And I look at the light side and the dark side throughout the book. 73 00:07:04,079 --> 00:07:10,439 So what started you on this, this metaphysical journey to get to this 74 00:07:10,519 --> 00:07:14,879 point, because I mean, looking at your bio and with your books, 75 00:07:14,959 --> 00:07:20,959 you've traveled the world, looking into all sorts of different religions and philosophies. 76 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:27,480 What spurred all that in you? I think that it all began when I 77 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:33,920 was still very young, and I've noticed that I was dreaming quite a bit 78 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:42,600 about flying, and these flying dreams were recurring, and as the years went 79 00:07:42,639 --> 00:07:47,199 on, I would make greater and greater effort to rise up higher and higher 80 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:55,680 in the sky, and they were really intriguing to me. And then when 81 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:00,680 I was around ten or eleven, one day, my brother and I were 82 00:08:01,279 --> 00:08:03,800 throwing a baseball back and forth in our front yard. It was the middle 83 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,519 of the day, a sunny day, not a cloud in the sky, 84 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:13,279 when a small, round flying disc came right over the top of our roof. 85 00:08:15,399 --> 00:08:18,040 We were in the front yard, so it came from the backside of 86 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:24,959 the house, flew over, and it was a beautiful round flying disc with 87 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:31,279 two people aboard. They looked totally human to me. But in retrospect, 88 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:37,519 I have a great wonderment about that because I'd never seen an object like this 89 00:08:37,639 --> 00:08:46,120 again and all these years, so that particular incident stuck with me for many 90 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,720 years. And can I ask you, if I'm sorry, I can I 91 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:56,320 ask you a few questions about that. Now, How close was the craft 92 00:08:56,519 --> 00:09:01,200 to you? And how you know in order for you to be able to 93 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,639 see what through a window or whatnot of these people. No, all right, 94 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,360 let me explain. This was not what you'd call a typical flying saucer. 95 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,720 It was more like a shuttlecraft that was a flat, round disc with 96 00:09:16,759 --> 00:09:22,399 a railing around it. And these people were actually standing at the back railing. 97 00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:26,600 Wow. Yeah, and they were They looked like two characters out of 98 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:33,600 Star Trek in retrospect, like like brown you know, kind of space age 99 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:39,039 uniforms. And they were so low in the sky. You know, if 100 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,240 I had this really strong picture's arm, I think I could have hit him 101 00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:46,679 with the baseball. They were that low in the sky, and we looked 102 00:09:46,759 --> 00:09:52,200 up. We were surprised, but we waved at them, and they waved 103 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,799 back at us, and there wasn't a sound to be heard, no engine 104 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:03,519 noises or anything like that. And quite curiously, their hair was not flying 105 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:09,919 about all while when they're right out in the open air at this back railing. 106 00:10:09,799 --> 00:10:18,720 So I've concluded in time, after much reading, which I was stimulated 107 00:10:18,759 --> 00:10:24,279 by this to read a lot of UFO literature, I've decided that these were 108 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:31,759 maybe humanoids and not just normal human beings, because, as I say, 109 00:10:31,759 --> 00:10:37,679 I've never seen such a craft again, and you know, there's no pictures 110 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:43,639 of such craft and so forth. There was one incident in New Guinea which 111 00:10:43,799 --> 00:10:50,440 kind of resembles it. For people who are into Ufo literature, they'll recognize 112 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:56,240 when I'm talking about. There was a father I can't think of his name 113 00:10:56,279 --> 00:11:01,080 at the moment, but it was like thirty seven witnesses to a craft that 114 00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:05,240 hovered in the sky and had a railing around it that way, and these 115 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:13,759 beans were on there doing something, and the priest and the others with him 116 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:20,000 waved at these figures and they waved back. So that's you know, I 117 00:11:20,039 --> 00:11:24,000 want to Jack Ballet's books if anybody wants to look it up. I think 118 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:31,840 the place is called Bow and I in New Guinea. But that stimulated my 119 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:37,000 interest, and I really, from a young age started reading about UFOs and 120 00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:43,480 really had a curiosity about that. So I do want I'm sure already keep 121 00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:46,279 interrupting you, but I did have to. I wanted to make a point 122 00:11:46,279 --> 00:11:50,919 before we got too much further. You talked about your flying dreams. Yeah, 123 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:56,840 okay, I have had flying dreams most of my life, not many 124 00:11:56,279 --> 00:12:03,799 lately. But let me tell you something I learned over time that I frecking 125 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,720 love flying in my dreams. I mean now, I thought that meant I 126 00:12:09,759 --> 00:12:13,279 could also see I can get on an airplane, no problem. But I 127 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,080 thought, oh, maybe I tried learning how to fly, and I took 128 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:20,679 a flying lesson once, and being in that cramped little cockpit of that crappy 129 00:12:20,759 --> 00:12:26,559 plane scared the living daylights out of me. And I realized, it's you 130 00:12:26,759 --> 00:12:31,360 have so much more freedom in your quote unquote dreams. And you know what 131 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:37,519 I mean by that, of actual flying and going and wherever you want is 132 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:43,360 just it's the most amazing experience. Yes, really, and I'm not I 133 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,720 never tried to become a violet either. But quite interestingly, my first novel 134 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:58,600 was inspired by these flying dreams, and it's entitled The Dream Illuminati, and 135 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:09,480 I was inspired from reading Robert Anton Wilson's work on his Cosmic Trigger book especially 136 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:16,480 was a huge influence on me. And it was his publisher, which is 137 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:22,600 Fou Compressed, that accepted my first novel, which was actually named Vermana initially 138 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:31,440 in the Vermanas, as some I know, are flying craft from India from 139 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:39,759 the ancient days in the danta Vedic traditions they have and like in the Bagavad 140 00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:46,679 Gita and some of those books they talk about these flying machines called vermana. 141 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,799 So I was intrigued by that. I tied that into my my own flying 142 00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:56,279 dreams. And then having seen the craft that I saw at ten or eleven 143 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,360 years of age, so all of that I came up with like a fictional 144 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:07,559 group of people who were living their flying dreams. So they had personal jet 145 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:13,919 packs, and they started buying up old churches and having rituals and all kinds 146 00:14:13,919 --> 00:14:16,759 of things going on, and they were living out their dreams to fly. 147 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:26,799 H fantastic now with the UA as we call them UAPs these days, not 148 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,919 just flying saucers and I because UFO, I guess, has taken on so 149 00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:37,559 much of a you mentioned UFO automatically everybody thinks alien spaceships, and so now 150 00:14:37,679 --> 00:14:46,279 the new phrases UAP unidentified aerial phenomenon because let's face it, some things that 151 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,639 people seeing this guy don't look like physical craft. There's the plasmic kind of 152 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:56,080 orbs that are have been seen, other types of lights in the sky. 153 00:14:56,519 --> 00:15:01,480 Now you saw you, you had an encounter, not once but twice. 154 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:09,159 True when I was fourteen or fifteen somewhere in that range. I was walking 155 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:13,600 with a friend in our neighborhood. We lived in the country, but there 156 00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:18,919 was a group of houses together and you know, a lot of open fields 157 00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:26,360 and teams, and we were walking toward my friend's house. It was nighttime, 158 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,120 very dark, stars were out, no clouds, but a strange craft 159 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:39,120 came flying very low in the sky again toward us as we were crossing this 160 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:45,639 field. And this is a very strange encounter, to say the least, 161 00:15:45,879 --> 00:15:50,159 which I described in my book The Journey Across Forever. But I think it's 162 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:56,799 significant for a reason because it is so strange, and that is this vehicle 163 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:03,000 kind of came cruising in again, not a sound, just very silent as 164 00:16:03,039 --> 00:16:10,960 a large kind of oval object. And the thing that startled us. We 165 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,480 were looking up at it and we were thinking, you know, what is 166 00:16:14,519 --> 00:16:18,200 this this is? I mean, it didn't have no wings like it definitely 167 00:16:18,279 --> 00:16:23,320 wasn't an airplane or a helicopter, but it was just cruising along, just 168 00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:33,039 this oval object. And suddenly the two of us had the absolute realization that 169 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:38,879 this object had become aware of us. And this happens if you read lou 170 00:16:40,039 --> 00:16:45,440 Fo literature, where there is this sense that the thing is aware of you, 171 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:53,279 and it startled us and we broke into a run, but the thing 172 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:59,759 turned like suddenly, it just made a complete turn, as if it was 173 00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:06,200 following us. So again we're very set and worried about this. But then 174 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,359 very strangely, the thing on top broke into flames and we could hear the 175 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:18,920 crackling of the fire, it was that low to the ground, and then 176 00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:25,079 in an instant it was just snuffed out, which was really weird. And 177 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:32,160 the thing just kept floating across the sky with trailing smoke and disappeared into the 178 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:37,559 distance. So, like you know, you talk about high strangeness, and 179 00:17:37,759 --> 00:17:45,880 some people say this is the true sign of this otherness, this otherworldly kind 180 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:55,559 of intrusion from an inter dimensional possibly group of entities. We don't know, 181 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,640 but I didn't see any anyone aboard at night, but it was very dark. 182 00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:10,200 But that's a very absurd, strange encounter. It almost sounds like the 183 00:18:10,279 --> 00:18:18,440 craft had a malfunction of some kind. Yeah, possibly, or like you 184 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,799 said, it's just it was doing something that's just beyond our comprehension, which 185 00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:27,680 in most cases is true because there's so much of this type of phenomenon that 186 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:33,240 currently is beyond our comprehension. We think we're at the pinnacle of science. 187 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,519 You know, we think we know. Science thinks it knows almost everything these 188 00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:42,839 days, and quite frankly, is they don't have a clue about reality. 189 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,359 Well that's the thing about the UAPs. I think, you know, the 190 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:55,440 military is only admitting that they're real now, but they don't know. They 191 00:18:55,440 --> 00:19:00,000 don't know what these things are, who's in control of them. They certainly 192 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:06,759 don't know if they're friendly or they're not. And so all these questions, 193 00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:11,039 like, they don't want to admit publicly that they have no clue how to 194 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:15,759 control this phenomenon or how to deal with it. But they are finally at 195 00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:22,519 least admitting and show they have shown some videos like the TikTok, the famous 196 00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:27,319 TikTok video. Now, but these things, these objects, they defy the 197 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:32,319 physics as we know them. Man, that's a very strange thing. So, 198 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:42,599 yeah, they're very, very complex and mysterious objects. Obviously, most 199 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:51,920 of these objects tend to exhibit an intelligence. And in some cases, let's 200 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,160 say, well if we're if we're talking about some of these more plasma like 201 00:19:56,759 --> 00:20:03,559 anomalies that don't look like tradu sal nuts and bolts craft, and yet they 202 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:11,880 still behave and maneuver with intelligence. They can react to you and your thoughts 203 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:17,200 or intentions. People have called out to them, I know, with doctor 204 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:23,319 Stephen Greer and his CE five program, people putting out their intentions to connect 205 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:30,799 with these types of craft or phenomenon that and they get responses from them. 206 00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:37,559 So, yeah, you'll have heard of blowing orbital. You may have heard 207 00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:42,839 of a Chris bled so like he seems to be able to practically see him 208 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:48,440 on a daily basis now or a nightly basis. Yeah, I'm familiar with 209 00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:52,920 Chris. Yeah, it's almost like, you know, the same type of 210 00:20:52,960 --> 00:21:00,559 phenomenon that they keep encountering at skin Walker Ranch. You know, which is 211 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,759 which the television show is, which I think is fantastic in its in its 212 00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:12,599 own way of showing this type of strange phenomenon right, and how hard it 213 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:19,160 is for modern science to even categorize it. I know. The forward of 214 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,000 my book The Journey Across Forever, you know, was written by Colonel John 215 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:30,359 B. Alexander, John Alexander Okay, yes, and he has his own 216 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:37,079 books like Reality Denied and UFOs Myths Conspiracies and realities, which I highly recommend. 217 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:42,839 But he also has been associated with the Skinwalker Ranch, you know, 218 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:49,759 and like what he describes in one of his books about how there was like 219 00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:56,000 a portal that just appeared that these people that were there were able to see 220 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:03,680 at a strange creature crawled out of this portal, a big, very thing 221 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,160 of sub kind, and does that will look like Bigfoot? Yeah, trudged 222 00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:15,960 off, you know. And I'm starting to think like the psychoanalyst Carl Jung 223 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:22,200 used the word psychoid, which I find intriguing because he was kind of saying, 224 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:29,200 this is a realm sort of between mind and matter, the psychoid realm. 225 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,559 So I'm starting to think that perhaps a better description might be unidentified psychoid 226 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:41,359 phenomena to kind of encompass everything like what's going on at the skin Walker Ranch, 227 00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:45,279 as well as these flying objects, because not all of these objects are 228 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:53,279 aerial phenomena, you know. And another possibility might be unidentified plasmic phenomena. 229 00:22:53,519 --> 00:23:00,319 So I'm reading a book now about plasma, the fourth state of matter, 230 00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:10,799 and it's quite intriguing the idea that that there is some kind of material constitution 231 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:18,039 to these things. But it's it's so fine and subtle that you know, 232 00:23:18,599 --> 00:23:22,720 we mostly don't see it with the naked eye at all. No. And 233 00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:30,839 yet also I know of people who have experienced these light phenomenas, not just 234 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:37,000 viewing them in the sky, but people walking in the woods, certain locations 235 00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:47,759 where this phenomena appears at ground level, and a few a few paranormal hotspot 236 00:23:47,799 --> 00:23:53,240 locations where people have seen and videotape these lights. It can be like red 237 00:23:53,440 --> 00:24:00,240 or green or orange, just moving through the woods, and whenever they try 238 00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:07,920 to follow it, it moves away or disappears. I myself have seen a 239 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:17,799 formation of orange globes, for lack of a better term, flying past me 240 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,319 in their early evening. They were about fifteen or twenty of them in a 241 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,759 line, not in a straight line. They were following each other, but 242 00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:30,799 it was a loose formation. They were all moving individual tually. They made 243 00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:33,640 no noise that I could tell. I was stuck in my car in traffic, 244 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,279 so I couldn't get out or film them, much to my annoyance. 245 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,480 They weren't very far away from me, but they were traveling from west to 246 00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:47,759 east in a straight line. And they weren't drones. They didn't have any 247 00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:52,759 fa lighting on them whatsoever, and again made I rolled down my window. 248 00:24:52,759 --> 00:25:00,039 They made no noise, and so you can honestly say it's an unidentify I 249 00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:03,920 had aerial phenomenon. Can I tell you what they were? Nope, But 250 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:08,160 I saw them on one other occasion too, just down and here the Jersey 251 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,960 shore a couple of years ago. My wife and my sister in law were 252 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,799 with me at the time, and we all three saw them coming up the 253 00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:19,119 beach and then moving out over the ocean. There was about they came in 254 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,920 pairs, about two two two at a time, come up the beach and 255 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:30,119 then make a right turn out in the ocean disappear. The cloud layer all 256 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,599 orange globes. Never been able to explain those. Wow, Balian, so 257 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:40,799 you've seen you saw they were orange globes on both occasions. Yes, they 258 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:47,200 looked identical to what I saw both times. My wife was convinced that they 259 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:52,400 were military in nature, and I'm sidering they're going, no, these are 260 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,799 not military. Yeah, I don't think so, that's the wise. I 261 00:25:56,839 --> 00:26:00,519 think that that would be some kind of record way are like, or videos 262 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:07,799 or something of them. It eventually gets out. But some very mysterious things 263 00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:11,200 going on in our world, isn't there. Well, here's my take on 264 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,200 it, and you can tell me your thoughts, because I think this fits 265 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:21,559 in perfectly with your book and your research. Is I have been of the 266 00:26:21,599 --> 00:26:25,759 opinion in the last few years. I've been researching the paranormal for almost twenty 267 00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:33,839 years, and the last several years my way of thinking has completely changed, 268 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:41,920 where most of the phenomenon that all seems separate is actually related, and that 269 00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:52,279 our perception of reality is so extremely narrow. We just don't have the senses 270 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:57,240 or the abilities to sense everything that's around us all the time. It's like 271 00:26:57,279 --> 00:27:00,880 the light spectrum. If you look at the full light spectrum, visible light 272 00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:07,240 takes up a sliver of that spectrum. Yet yeah, there's things going out 273 00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:11,359 on both sides, going all the way out to the infrared into the ultraviolet, 274 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:18,160 different different radio frequencies and radiation and all of this stuff, But it's 275 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,240 all part of the light spectrum. I think what we are able to perceive 276 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,279 here in the physical reality everyday lives. First of all, we're trained since 277 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:32,000 childhood to ignore most of it that can't be real. Don't think about that, 278 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:37,960 don't look at that man behind the curtain, and yet so many people 279 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:44,400 have all these experiences, which shows that there is something measurable that is going 280 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,720 on that is just as much a part of our reality as air. Yeah. 281 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:56,119 Yeah, we talk about the paranormal and the supernatural, but I think 282 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,400 there's a dimension of the natural world that, like you say, that we're 283 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:07,200 just not aware of, because you know, we have limited sensing of capabilities, 284 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:15,799 and we are all acculturated people who are you know, we learn to 285 00:28:15,839 --> 00:28:21,240 see things a certain way and to describe things a certain way, and when 286 00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:27,079 these anomalies come along, we're just completely lost to just describe them properly or 287 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,640 to understand what they are. But I think they are part of the natural 288 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:37,880 world. They're they're part of a reality that we are all members of. 289 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:44,200 But for whatever reason, whether it was intentional or non intentional, because obviously 290 00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:48,039 some people are more in tune and in touch and able to see this type 291 00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:56,160 of phenomenon. My friend Irene, my co host, is very very sensitive 292 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:03,079 to these types of energies and phenomenon and other people aren't. And I think 293 00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:07,240 a lot of it's been programmed out of us, whether biologically a long time 294 00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:12,920 ago or just in the way that we're we grew up in Western society. 295 00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:19,559 Yeah. And I think another aspect of this has to do with when we 296 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,880 leave the body. You know, some people have out of body experiences, 297 00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:33,519 and very convincing out of body experiences where they saw certain things like the famous 298 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:41,359 shoe on the roof that particular person had seen and then was able to prove 299 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:47,200 that that shoe was way up on the roof somewhere of the hospital. But 300 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,279 I think it all does tie into the other world of legend, you know, 301 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,240 the avalon or even the idea of heaven. And I do think that 302 00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:06,440 we are our spiritual entities primarily, who upon leaving the physical body, enter 303 00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:10,960 a dimension which we think of is the afterlife. And I have quite a 304 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:18,640 few chapters in the book about the afterlife, and I postulate that what we 305 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:26,839 have here is a new paradigm reality based on all these people that have had 306 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:33,720 near death experiences. And one of the people who endorsed my book was Whitley 307 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:41,519 Strieber, and he recently, in one of his newer books, wrote how 308 00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:48,000 he had left out a certain aspect of a thing he saw when he wrote 309 00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:53,000 his book famous book Communion. He didn't put it in the book Communion, 310 00:30:53,079 --> 00:30:56,839 because it made no sense to him at the time, he said, But 311 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,519 in this newer book, I think it's called a New World. He wrote 312 00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:08,880 about how he had seen a deceased friend on one of those spacecraft. Very 313 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:15,440 familiar with Whitley, Yeah, in his background in that story. And I 314 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:22,359 was listening to an interview with Robert Bigelow and Jeffrey Mischlov there yesterday and they 315 00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:30,559 were saying how the whole UAP or UFO mystery seems to be tied into this 316 00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:37,440 other dimension to do with the afterlife, very like, very much, you 317 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,079 know. So so yeah, I'd have a lot about that in the book 318 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:48,559 and tie it all together. And then there's another story I'll tell you which 319 00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:56,960 when we think of you know, we we are carnate beings or incarnate beings, 320 00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:00,839 and then there are discarnate beings, which you know, you might think 321 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:07,519 of ghosts, for example, But I think spirits that transition, you know, 322 00:32:07,599 --> 00:32:13,440 from the body into this other world are discarnent entities, and a lot 323 00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:17,920 of them are were formerly human and maybe some of them, you know, 324 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:24,559 we're never human. But when I was living in Australia, I was traveling 325 00:32:24,599 --> 00:32:30,759 across the country from Perth to back to Melbourne, where I was living at 326 00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:36,279 the time, and it's a very long journey. Australia is as big as 327 00:32:36,359 --> 00:32:40,440 the continent the United States, so anybody who's made a cross country journeys across 328 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:46,720 America knows how those wide open spaces can be and how tiring it can be. 329 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:54,559 So I got almost to Adelaide from Perth and decided I had a whole 330 00:32:54,640 --> 00:33:00,119 nother day to travel to Melbourne. So I just took a road, just 331 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,359 a random road down to the ocean and set up camp there for the night. 332 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:12,240 So it was early afternoon and I went exploring and was I just love 333 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,880 shells and rocks and things, so I always liked to go and look for 334 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,359 these kinds of things, things of interest that way, and I noticed a 335 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:28,079 cave and it was a very low opening to the cave, but when I 336 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,640 peeked in, I could see light inside the cave, which you looked really 337 00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:37,359 interesting and it was a curious thing to see. So I crawled into the 338 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:43,799 cave and basically at high tide, I assume it was a blowhole. So 339 00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:50,279 the cave had an opening in its roof and in the middle of that sunny 340 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,319 patch was a long, oblong stone with kind of criss crossing bands on it, 341 00:33:55,400 --> 00:34:00,240 so it's about as long as my forearm is sizeable rock. But I 342 00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:05,920 thought this is really cool. I really liked this rock, and I assumed 343 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,039 that because it had been rolled in the surfer, could be centuries or millenniums 344 00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:16,960 for all we know that it was a natural object, and so I took 345 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:24,119 it with me. Now what's interesting is that the next day I drove home 346 00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:30,480 to Melbourne and I was just put things in the bedroom, including that stone, 347 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:34,440 and I took a shower, set back on the bed to read a 348 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:39,440 book, and after a little bit of time of reading, I happened to 349 00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:46,519 look up and I noticed the whole top of the room was full of mist, 350 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:52,679 and this was especially evident around the green Chinese lantern shade that hung in 351 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:58,559 the middle of the room. And I had to wonder if there was some 352 00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:02,800 kind of fire or something. So I began, like you know, trying 353 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,840 to look into that and find out what was going on. But the room 354 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,480 was very, very misty. And then I happened to notice that there was 355 00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:20,719 this large spiral spinning around over by the old Victorian fireplace, and it was 356 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,239 about as big as the upper half of my body, you know, And 357 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:28,880 so it was a sizeable spiral, and there was a clock beside the bed. 358 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,519 So for a solid hour I watched this spiral. I kind of tried 359 00:35:32,519 --> 00:35:38,760 to communicate and wondering I could just sort of sense and intelligence there. And 360 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:44,719 at one point the spiral came toward me and it entered me and swirled around 361 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,599 inside me. I kind of got the impression that it was checking me out, 362 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,000 you know. Wow. Yeah, And then it backed up and it 363 00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:59,760 went back to the little area it had been in, but near the fireplace. 364 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,760 And then there was a car engine that started up outside and it was 365 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:10,079 kind of loud and posted the house, so seemed to trigger some kind of 366 00:36:10,679 --> 00:36:15,960 new dynamic at that moment, and the spiral started crackling, and then it 367 00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:22,960 shot up through the ceiling of the bedroom and in an absolute instant, the 368 00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:30,199 room just cleared out. All the mist just absolutely vanished. And so that 369 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:36,639 was an amazing, you know, experience all by itself, but there was 370 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,920 a lot more to it than I realized at the time. A few days 371 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:45,159 later, this Australian couple came over friends, you know, and they looked 372 00:36:45,199 --> 00:36:51,360 at the stone and they said this is an aboriginal artiffact, and they thought 373 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,199 it was. They weren't sure, but they said, I think you've you 374 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:59,719 know, you're not supposed to take any aboriginal art effect from wherever you find 375 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:05,639 it or happened to come across it. So I was, you know, 376 00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:10,599 I was curious then, and I happened to go into an aborigine shop about 377 00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:15,800 a week later, and they were selling didgery dues and boomerangs and all that 378 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,320 kind of stuff, and there was an Aborigine woman in there tending the shop. 379 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,840 So I told her about it, and she said, it does sound 380 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:30,840 like an aboriginal artifact. And she said no, I have a friend who's 381 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:36,320 a professor at the University of Melbourne and he would know. So, you 382 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,800 know, if you bring me the stone, I'll show it to him and 383 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,119 we'll see what he says. So I did that. I brought her the 384 00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:51,079 stone. She took it to the professor and a day or two after that, 385 00:37:51,199 --> 00:37:52,880 I got a phone call from her and she said, I'm sorry, 386 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:58,760 I'm sorry I had to give the stone away. And I was like, 387 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:04,079 why what happened? And she said the professor did identify it as an aboriginal 388 00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:08,400 artifact. In fact, she said it's a charinga, a power stone, 389 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:16,639 and suddenly I connected the spiral, the spinning spiral, with this stone. 390 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:24,480 And my point here is, I think what I experienced was a discarded being 391 00:38:24,599 --> 00:38:34,360 from the dream time. So absolutely fascinating. The Aborigine Society of South Australia 392 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:40,599 said two Aborigine shaman to collect that stone. They flew him to Melbourne for 393 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,519 this stone. That's how important it was to them, because the professor had 394 00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:51,639 identified it as such. So it was a charinga, a power stone, 395 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:59,760 and apparently this discarnate entity from the dream time was residing in that stone, 396 00:39:00,559 --> 00:39:07,480 and it was invisible except for the fact that this misted just come out of 397 00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:12,239 nowhere and filled the room. And if there hadn't been a mist, I 398 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:16,079 wouldn't have known that this entity was even there. So that's one of the 399 00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:22,400 fascinating stories in the book, and it really convinced me that there are discarnate 400 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:28,800 beings and that the Aborigines are on the right track, believing that there is 401 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,000 a dream time, like we come from it and we return to it. 402 00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:37,880 So that's their word, I think for the other world of legend, you 403 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:43,119 know, the Avalon or valhalla, whatever word you might want to use for 404 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,360 this other world. Some would say heaven, but the afterlife, the hereafter, 405 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:54,880 etc. Well, your story is really struck a chord with me right 406 00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:01,760 now. I've studied shamanism through some shamanic practition or training that I went through 407 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:10,960 a few years ago. I really feel the Aborigines of Aboriginal people of Australia 408 00:40:12,159 --> 00:40:16,679 have probably one of the most one of the oldest cultures in the world, 409 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:22,360 but also are very much in tune not only with nature, but of all 410 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:28,599 of these other I hate using the word spiritual energies because I think it goes 411 00:40:28,679 --> 00:40:35,280 far beyond just thinking in spiritual terms, these other doorways to other worlds, 412 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:42,079 other dimensions. A lot of times, and you see even in Native American 413 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:50,639 pictographs and artwork, they always use spirals, just like you described. Aborigine 414 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:58,119 in their artwork and cave drawings have the spirals. And if I may interject, 415 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:04,800 there are in fact thousands of spirals etched into stone in Australia. As 416 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:09,719 it turns out, they're called petricklypts and they are all over the country. 417 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:15,599 So that is their depiction of a dream time entity. I believe, yes, 418 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:23,559 I think a dreamtime entity or possibly even a portal. That's an interesting 419 00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:30,360 thought. Yeah, I know that recently with the skin Walker ranched they had 420 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:42,920 discovered petrick glypts from the Uton and Navajo people who occupied by the area, 421 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,400 and there was even they even have on top of the mesa stone monolith structure 422 00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:52,679 in a spiral and the spire. They also had spirals on the Petrick glyphs, 423 00:41:53,000 --> 00:42:01,599 and which they're starting to lean towards the idea of that interpreting that as 424 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,360 a type of portal or a vortex of energy at some point. And I 425 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:13,480 think it's very important considering how many cultures across the world have used that type 426 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:20,920 of imagery. I believe there's even old caveman art, you know, going 427 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:27,400 back to prehistoric times where they find these ancient cave arts that also have the 428 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:35,280 spiral. Yeah, and Ireland here where I live now, also has spirals 429 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:43,559 on stone some of their more famous ancient structures, you know. So the 430 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:51,320 sacred spiral is it does seem to be a universal motif, doesn't It does? 431 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,599 And you're also talking about with the other side, the other realm, 432 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:05,400 whatever one way I look at it is. We don't come from here. 433 00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:08,880 We're here, I call us, we're spiritual beings having a human experience. 434 00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:17,079 We come from that other realm where we are obtained, this consciousness in these 435 00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:22,280 bodies for the short time we hear for these physical experiences, and when it's 436 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,760 done, you go right back to where you came from, sometimes even coming 437 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:31,159 back multiple times, depending on the experiences you need, because there's certain experiences 438 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:37,679 that they really can't experience in those other dimensions and realities that you can experience 439 00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:44,960 here in the third physical dimension. Right. Yeah, it's very true, 440 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:51,880 and I have multiple chapters in the book about why I think that we're here 441 00:43:52,519 --> 00:44:00,760 for spiritual enrichment, and it's so correct that we do need them sterial world 442 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:07,519 for some experiences to be you know, a life and death experiences that will 443 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:15,679 enrich you, whether it's you know, even negative things can have constitute a 444 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:22,039 very huge learning lesson for your spiritual lesson and the whole of course, we 445 00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:29,679 all deal with the death of our loved ones and our own demise looms in 446 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:34,480 the future. And so yeah, you're very correct about that, I think, 447 00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:39,880 and I think it's the the what the returnees from the near death experience 448 00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:46,400 tell us about what goes on in the afterlight does constitute a new paradigm for 449 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:52,480 us. And if we heed the lessons they give us, which I have 450 00:44:52,920 --> 00:45:00,559 a lot about that in the journey across forever, we can improve our future 451 00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:07,400 tremendously, and in fact, we can grow the soul and we can become 452 00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:15,639 enlightened if we are really attentive to our karma. And you alluded to reincarnation 453 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,320 there. I think it's a very real phenomenon, and that we come back 454 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,800 to this world if we need more or lessons of a certain type or a 455 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:30,239 very specific lesson, and that all of that apparently is planned out ahead of 456 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:39,719 time before we even are born. Yeah, it's people sometimes in this lifetime, 457 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:45,199 especially people who've experienced very horrible things, and they sit there and they 458 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:50,400 think why me, or they get mad and blame God, or they want 459 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,800 to know why is this is happening? And it's sometimes living in this existence 460 00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:00,360 is very, very, very tough. And yet there's been a lot of 461 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:08,320 work with hypnotherapists like Laris Cannon, doctor Leo Sprinkle, even John doctor John 462 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:16,599 Mac who you know, have when they've done these hypnotic regressions on people. 463 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:24,239 Well, even the work of doctor doctor Brian Weiss, that that people before 464 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:30,800 they come into these lifetimes, they're like all excited and joyful, fully planning 465 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:37,079 all of these bad things that's gonna happen to them because they're excited for the 466 00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:42,840 experience. Now while we're here, I'm not gonna lie. It sucks and 467 00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:51,360 it's no fun. I mean, I've gone through some incredible trauma in the 468 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:58,039 last several months that trust me it you know, I use I use humorous 469 00:46:58,159 --> 00:47:04,719 terms. It blows chunks. But at the same time, I also recognize 470 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:12,239 the lessons that I have learned during all of this time, during all the 471 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:20,400 past instances of bad times I've went through, or let's say mistakes I think 472 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:27,800 I made, and I realized now every one of those things happened to bring 473 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,159 me to where I am at this moment in time, which right now I'm 474 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:38,119 on the pinnacle of a brand new whatever you want to call it, adventure 475 00:47:38,519 --> 00:47:45,960 life path, what things are starting new that led everything I experienced up to 476 00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:53,800 this moment has brought me here exact and a huge realization that everyone should should 477 00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:59,000 come to and that is all of the Greeks, they might suffer or whatever 478 00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:07,039 has happened to understand what happened, and to really deeply and profoundly meditate on 479 00:48:07,159 --> 00:48:14,239 and contemplated, ruminate on it and understand what the spiritual lesson is there, 480 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:22,000 and you will be enriched from that experience, even if it was horrible while 481 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:27,360 it was going on. Well, let me ask you your thoughts on the 482 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:34,760 difference between the spiritual and the religion. Just well, I am one of 483 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:45,800 those people that distinguishes them very distinctly. I think religion is institutionalized spirituality, 484 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:52,159 but it's second hand for most people, is not firsthand experience. And I 485 00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:58,159 think spirituality, I mean to understand it to any degree, really you must 486 00:48:58,199 --> 00:49:05,960 experience things directly and it's very very important that you, you know, go 487 00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:12,280 your own way, do your own thing. I belong to no particular religion, 488 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,679 although I did grow up Catholic. But we've seen some of the things 489 00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:22,639 that have occurred with the priests and the nuns and so forth, and like, 490 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:37,920 institutionalized religion can be stifling to the spirit and these hard core doctrination kind 491 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:45,800 of things. I just think it's people imposing their will, people of authority 492 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:52,000 who will become self appointed authority. I must say that they're imposing their will 493 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:57,760 on others and they're trying to control others. And I just believe in being 494 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:02,440 a free spirit. I believe strongly, and this is throughout my book The 495 00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:09,000 Journey Across Forever. I talk about spiritual liberation, So free in yourself of 496 00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:17,639 what's your cultural conditioning, your compulsions, all the indoctrinations that go along with 497 00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:25,199 religion and with politics as well. You know, our ethics and morals come 498 00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:32,760 from our spiritual base, our spiritual foundation, so it's important to really dig 499 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,280 deep into yourself. And I think, you know, I mean it's almost 500 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:45,440 a cliche now, but the ultimate beauty of life is in love, and 501 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:50,480 it's in compassion, being kind and compassionate to our fellow human beings. And 502 00:50:50,519 --> 00:50:57,000 I'll say this as well. This is a key insight, and that is 503 00:50:57,039 --> 00:51:01,559 that those who have had a near death experience, almost invariably, they have 504 00:51:01,639 --> 00:51:08,239 had a life review where they not only saw their life flash before their eyes 505 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:14,719 again, but they felt everything they felt, and even more importantly, they 506 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:21,280 felt how they made others feel. So they felt the emotions of all those 507 00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,559 around them who they influenced in some way or affected in some way. And 508 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:32,320 I call this the ultimate karmic moment where everything we do comes back to us 509 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:40,119 during this life review, and many have said it can be excruciating to realize 510 00:51:40,159 --> 00:51:45,760 how you made other people feel. But of course there's the positive side as 511 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,920 well. So the more kind you are, the more compassionate you are, 512 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,239 the more loving you are, the more beautiful that life review is going to 513 00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:59,639 be, and you're going to feel good about yourself rather than may be a 514 00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:02,599 shame of some of the things you did and so forth. Well, I 515 00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:09,280 can tell you that I am very familiar with that concept. I am sure 516 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:15,840 not looking forward to now. Yes, in the end, it's all about 517 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:20,760 the overall experiences and what you learn from it. You judge yourself. You're 518 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,559 not like going to be sitting under a panel of judges or God and if 519 00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:29,159 you didn't do enough, you're going to hell. I mean right, we 520 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,039 judge ourselves. That's what it comes down to. And it comes down to 521 00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:38,159 the beings of light that accompany these people have had the near death experience are 522 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:45,119 very loving beings, like they just radiate love and warmth and kindness and compassion. 523 00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:51,360 But they help you through it, and I help you see exactly how 524 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:57,960 you lived your life and if you're coming back. What alterations or changes are 525 00:52:58,039 --> 00:53:04,360 different experiences you may need depending on the life that you live, or hey, 526 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,239 you may be done, you may not need to come back here. 527 00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:12,400 You may not, and apparently that's a good thing. Yeah, yeah, 528 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:16,559 Well, although I love this life, I think it's it's been incredible, 529 00:53:16,679 --> 00:53:22,159 you know, to have traveled the world and met all the people I've met 530 00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,840 and so forth. Like I mean, it is an incredible life anyway you 531 00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:31,199 look at it. But some people have very you know, terrible things happen 532 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:36,519 to them. And then you've got things like war going on and murder and 533 00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:40,920 all these things, very dark energies which you want to steer well clear of, 534 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:47,679 and you know, meditate, open yourself to the light and just be 535 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:55,159 kind, to be kind. We're getting close to the end here, but 536 00:53:55,320 --> 00:54:01,000 there is one of the talking points that was sent over that picked my interest 537 00:54:01,039 --> 00:54:07,119 and I wanted to ask you about it, which is the Martian Odyssey. 538 00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:14,000 Yeah, okay, Well, my last my fourth fiction novel, is a 539 00:54:14,119 --> 00:54:20,000 thriller about and it was inspired by I saw a newspaper ad one day, 540 00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:25,039 or not an ad, I'm sorry, a newspaper story saying that over a 541 00:54:25,079 --> 00:54:32,440 thousand people have applied with this Mars One group that was hoping to become the 542 00:54:32,519 --> 00:54:39,159 first to blast off for Mars and set up the first interplanetary human colony there. 543 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:45,519 I thought, now, that's amazing, like that over a thousand people 544 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:54,000 would want to go there, to this freezing cold planet that seems to be 545 00:54:54,159 --> 00:55:00,639 just a desert, and but like it really picked my interest, and so 546 00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:08,679 I created this fictional two fictional groups that were both like Mars one and SpaceX 547 00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:15,679 and you know, the Russian and Nassa versions of all these groups at once 548 00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:21,440 that are actually talking in serious terms about going to Martin setting up the first 549 00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:28,639 interplanetary colony. So I set this one group in Mexico. Well it's a 550 00:55:28,679 --> 00:55:34,400 private organization, and they were building their rocket ship and they were you know, 551 00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:38,000 learning and figuring out how they were going to survive on Mars and all 552 00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:44,679 that, and it's very real, like there are people at work on these 553 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:51,800 issues right this very minute. And then I set up another group which was 554 00:55:52,599 --> 00:55:57,119 Russian, but I made it clear it was not tied to the government. 555 00:55:57,159 --> 00:56:01,719 They were a private group also, but they had sent a team of assassins 556 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:06,280 against the other. So it's a thriller in that sense. All the action 557 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:13,840 takes place on Earth. It's called Crimson Firestorm Mars. And so one of 558 00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:17,519 the things that intrigued me is the idea that and this was in that initial 559 00:56:17,639 --> 00:56:22,199 story I read it's a one way journey at this stage, like if you 560 00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:27,559 choose to go to Mars, you're never coming back. Not at this stage, 561 00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:30,360 we do not have the technology for it. So in a sense, 562 00:56:30,599 --> 00:56:35,440 it's like dying. It's like dying to the Earth, Like once you leave, 563 00:56:35,559 --> 00:56:40,360 you're gone forever. And that really set my mind thinking, like what 564 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:46,400 would it be like to voluntarily give up all the things that we love, 565 00:56:46,559 --> 00:56:52,840 you know, just the beautiful scenery, going to a rock concert or a 566 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:58,639 ball game of some kind, or the theater or whatever, to a nice 567 00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,679 restaurants, you know, happen all these things that we take for granted. 568 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:07,679 Really and you're saying, Okay, I'm going to go live on this freezing, 569 00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:15,159 cold, forbidding planet in the name of science, and you know, 570 00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:21,440 to set up the first interplanetary colony. And you know, even in the 571 00:57:22,719 --> 00:57:27,960 rocket ship that would be sent aloft, you're going to have to be very 572 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,679 good at meditation and stilling your body in your mind in order to endure what 573 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:39,119 we'll take upwards towards a year to get there, and once you're there, 574 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:44,159 you're You're there. That's it. So yeah, I wrote this whole novel 575 00:57:44,239 --> 00:57:46,239 on it. It's a big novel. It's a seven hundred page novel. 576 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:51,840 Would make a really incredible movie. But I also wrote a chapter in The 577 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:59,119 Journey Across Forever to kind of bring that kind of idea about the finality of 578 00:57:59,159 --> 00:58:06,639 it into this book, which is a very spiritual book. And so it's 579 00:58:06,679 --> 00:58:13,480 like Martian Theater I call it. Where You're There is actually the Buddhists have 580 00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,559 you know, a death meditation that they do, So I kind of tied 581 00:58:16,599 --> 00:58:22,480 all these things together, and that's what that's all about, and the idea 582 00:58:22,599 --> 00:58:28,400 that going to Mars is not like just you know, traveling across the world 583 00:58:28,519 --> 00:58:32,960 like it is a major, major undertaking. And I don't think we'll get 584 00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:38,719 there anytime as soon as some people might think, like Elon Musk, who 585 00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:44,599 claimed he was going to have you know, a thousand people there by twenty 586 00:58:44,679 --> 00:58:50,039 twenty five or something like that. We're going to have to work on the 587 00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:54,679 technology a whole lot more to get someone to Mars and have him set up 588 00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:59,639 that calling there yeah, we needs to you know, perfect his rockets to 589 00:58:59,719 --> 00:59:08,840 keep from blowing up first. You know, I'll be honest with you, 590 00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:15,920 Well, I would never do what these people are doing because I think it's 591 00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:23,679 backwards thinking. Because I think there's other ways of achieving these goals that are 592 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:28,559 kind of beyond our current scientific knowledge. I mean, heck, you could 593 00:59:28,599 --> 00:59:35,760 even through astral travel and meditation, go visit Mars and hang out there and 594 00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:42,039 then come back, you know, because the remote viewers that Colonel Alexander was 595 00:59:42,719 --> 00:59:49,840 associated with, Ingo Swan and those kinds of people who who've done that, 596 00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:57,000 they've actually like Ingo Swan was able to remote view Jupiter before scientists on Earth 597 00:59:57,199 --> 01:00:00,760 even knew it had rings around it. And he said there rings around it, 598 01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,679 and they said, no, there's no rings. Read that they sat 599 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,000 there, one of their ships up there, and sure enough, there are 600 01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:12,320 rings around it. So there's a lot to be said for the remote viewing, 601 01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:17,639 for sure. But I also admit to having an intense fascination with Mars. 602 01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:22,519 Don't know, don't ask me why, I don't know. I sure 603 01:00:22,559 --> 01:00:28,760 wouldn't want to be stranded there. But there's something about vet planet that just 604 01:00:29,719 --> 01:00:34,519 strikes a chord with me something I'll be exploring in the future. I guess, 605 01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,559 yeah, yeah, it's it's nabbed me as well, and that's why 606 01:00:37,599 --> 01:00:43,880 I was inspired to write that book. So yeah, there's it's it's intriguing 607 01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,039 the whole idea of going to the moon or to Mars, you know, 608 01:00:46,239 --> 01:00:52,119 but no thanks, I'm not going to go. I love the earth too 609 01:00:52,199 --> 01:00:58,000 much and I love all the comforts and the beauty and the good things of 610 01:00:58,039 --> 01:01:04,559 this world. So that's where this is where I'll stay. Well, your 611 01:01:04,599 --> 01:01:09,599 book is called The Journey Across Forever, a magical, provocative odyssey across the 612 01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:15,960 ages, around the world and into the Greek beyond. Just came out this 613 01:01:15,079 --> 01:01:22,360 summer. Where can people find it? Well, the publisher is John Hunt 614 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:28,679 Publishing or it's now changed ownership and its collective inc. But most people are 615 01:01:28,719 --> 01:01:34,440 getting it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble websites. And I would sure appreciate 616 01:01:34,519 --> 01:01:39,440 anyone getting it on Amazon to put up a review which appreciate it very much, 617 01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:47,079 and I hope that people find it very inspirational. The core message in 618 01:01:47,119 --> 01:01:52,159 the book is that I think we need to see the miraculous in the mundane 619 01:01:52,719 --> 01:01:57,280 and the sacred in the profane, and if we do that, we become 620 01:01:58,199 --> 01:02:05,480 more holistic and real magic is about transforming our perceptions. So it's very important 621 01:02:05,559 --> 01:02:10,440 to you know, there's a lot of information in this book, but it 622 01:02:10,519 --> 01:02:16,559 really helps to sit and ruminate and to meditate on the messages in there. 623 01:02:17,159 --> 01:02:22,840 But it is a path to enlightenment, and I think to free in the 624 01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:28,960 spirit and to know that life goes on beyond this earth is very much a 625 01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,880 part of setting the soul free. So all of that is in the book, 626 01:02:32,159 --> 01:02:37,679 and again it's called the Journey Across Forever. And I thank you Mark 627 01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:42,360 for having me on your program. Well, l Wayne, thank you for 628 01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:46,840 coming on. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation and I think we have a lot 629 01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:52,360 in common and the way we think about things, So thank you again for 630 01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:58,159 coming on. You're welcome, and I want to thank everybody else for tuning 631 01:02:58,199 --> 01:03:02,840 into another edition of the Normal UK radio show, the flagship show here on 632 01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:09,039 the Paranormal UK Radio Network. And as Irene says, you can find us 633 01:03:09,239 --> 01:03:15,159 everywhere, people everywhere, so have a great week. We'll see you in 634 01:03:15,239 --> 01:03:17,400 two weeks. Be good humans and we will talk to you all soon. 635 01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,199 And have a great night.