WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.160 Today, I want to tell you about a journey that I've been on for 2 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:05.120 most of my life. Ever since I was a kid, I've heard tales 3 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.199 of bigfoot and wild men while spending time with my friends and family. As 4 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:12.759 I grew older and read more about the paranormal, my interest in encryptids and 5 00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:17.039 other things strange only deepened. That's why I'm so excited to share with you 6 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:22.960 what I've personally become involved with the Untold Radio Network. The Untold Radio Network 7 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:27.480 is a live streaming podcast network that airs a new show every day across all 8 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:31.839 podcast platforms, YouTube, and more. They have eight different shows on all 9 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:36.119 sorts of exciting topics such as bigfoot, cryptids, UFOs, aliens, and 10 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:39.759 much more. I even have my own show called Weird Encounters, where I 11 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:43.920 talk about all things strange. This is more than just a podcast network. 12 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.759 It's a community that allows me to meet so many amazing people who share their 13 00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:52.280 stories and experiences with strange. If you're interested in hearing more of these stories 14 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:55.880 and learning more about the paranormal and encryptids, make sure you check out the 15 00:00:55.920 --> 00:01:00.640 Untold Radio Network for all kinds of exciting shows. It's free to subscribe. 16 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:06.560 So what are you waiting for visit www dot untold radionetwork dot com today. 17 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:10.640 Now what are your reporting? I got a screen going on here. Something 18 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:14.040 just kid with my dog, something to kill your dog? My dog. 19 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:15.840 We're flying through there over the tree. I don't know how it did it? 20 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.359 Okay, Damn, I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog 21 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:25.159 coming over the fence and name was dead once you hit the grill. I 22 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:27.000 didn't see any cars. All I saw was my dog coming over the fence. 23 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:49.680 Mad, What are you reporting? We got some wonder or something crawling 24 00:01:49.680 --> 00:02:00.200 around out here? Did you see what it was? It was enough out 25 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:01.359 here. Look, come new to window now and I don't need anything. 26 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:10.080 I don't want to go outside. Its great. Hello, hit the buddy 27 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:15.159 out here? What Quinn out thought of a bit of about text nine? 28 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:23.439 I don't know. Easy announter. Yeah, I'm walking right head. Oh 29 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:25.919 be there, and thanks so much for joining me for the show. This 30 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:30.039 is the first of a series of five episodes that I'm going to put out 31 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.520 for you guys while we're over in the UK and preparing for our trip up 32 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:38.479 to the Smoky Mountain Bigfoot conference later this month. Tonight's episode and the four 33 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:42.520 that will follow is all about what's going on with the wood apes and Area 34 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:47.039 X. Brian Brown, former NAWAC member, was gracious enough to allow me 35 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:53.400 to have exclusive access to this audio that he recorded for his podcast back in 36 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:57.520 twenty eleven, twelve, thirteen, and fourteen. You were going to hear 37 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:01.319 a ton of exclusive interviews with the people that have had experiences in Area X, 38 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:06.319 and in some cases they're literally sitting around the fire ring while they're having 39 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:09.840 activity around them in Area X. No matter where you are on the spectrum 40 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:15.080 with the nawac's mission to collect a specimen of one of these wood apes out 41 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:19.800 in Area X, you cannot deny the experiences that they're having and the amount 42 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:23.280 of data that they've collected over these many missions that they've had inside of Area 43 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:27.719 X. They're staying up to four months at a time in this area and 44 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:32.360 they're collecting tons of data, whether it be visual observations, note taking tons 45 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:37.639 of audio that they've captured in and around Area X. There is no doubt 46 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:39.919 in my mind that they have done some phenomenal work. So I'd like to 47 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:45.400 personally thank every member of the NAWAC that you're going to hear here and even 48 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:49.360 some of the former members like Brian Brown, Darryl Cougier and some of the 49 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:53.280 other folks that you're going to hear during these next five episodes. If you 50 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:57.159 want to know more about Area X and the NAWAC, the North American wood 51 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.000 Ape Conservancy, I'm going to link to the Woodape dot org website right here 52 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:02.240 in the show notes. All you have to do is click that. There's 53 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:06.199 tons of information over there, in the form of articles, audio recordings. 54 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:11.240 Any and everything you'd want to know about the NAWAC and Area X you can 55 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:14.680 find right there on Woodape dot org. But enough of that, I know 56 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:15.839 you guys are ready to get into it, so all that's left for you 57 00:04:15.920 --> 00:04:35.959 to do is sit back, relax, and enjoy the show. Whenever I 58 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.360 post to our Facebook page that we're going to be recording a new show and 59 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:42.720 I ask our listeners there to suggest topics for us to discuss, one subject 60 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.639 comes up again and again pretty much every time someone says they want to hear 61 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:49.480 more about what's happening in Area X. While my friends, this is the 62 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:55.000 show for you. What follows is more than two hours of Area X goodness. 63 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:59.600 Much of it was recorded on location in the mountainous backwoods of eastern Oklahoma. 64 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.399 As in the previous two years, the North American Wooded Conservancy, formerly 65 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:06.480 known as the Texas Bigfoot Research Conservancy, is performing a continuous three month field 66 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:11.399 study in their research area referred to as X. In twenty eleven, this 67 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:15.360 was called Operation Endurance. In twenty twelve, it was Operation Persistence. This 68 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:19.079 year, HiT's Operation Relentless, and it's happening right now. Up first in 69 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:23.800 this episode is a conversation I had with an AWAC chairman, Alton Higgins, 70 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:28.759 and Kathy Strain, a United States Force field anthropologist, noted author of Giants, 71 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.560 Cannibals and Monsters, Bigfoot Native Culture, and most impressively, I think 72 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:35.720 the all time record holder for most Bigfoot show appearances. This is the Bigfoot 73 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:42.399 show that is from the very pulsing nerve center of Area X, the epicenter 74 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:46.680 of Area X, and I have with me Alton Higgins and Kathy Strain, 75 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.360 And I'm excited because I realized when I was going to be down here this 76 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:55.040 week that I was going to have a biologist and an anthropologist, two ists, 77 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.560 and I thought it would be fun just to talk about what we've experienced 78 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:01.000 down here over the years and this year and they just get you guys' perspective 79 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:03.360 on it. So I'm going to start with you, Alton, and to 80 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:06.720 ask you. We're in our third year of the sort of long term summer 81 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:12.120 operations. How would you say this one's been going so far? It's hard 82 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.319 to compare years. You want activity, and there has been activity this year. 83 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:19.920 We had a lot of activity last year, so it's natural to compare 84 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:24.160 years. From my perspective, I think that the main thing we need to 85 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:28.639 keep in mind with regard to our activity here is that the apes are still 86 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:34.120 in the vicinity and they are still expressing interest in our presence. The fact 87 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:38.360 that there is activity and that the apes are here is what I think is 88 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:43.879 important and what drives me to continue with the effort. So what types of 89 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.839 activity are you thinking is indicative of them being in the area. Well, 90 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:54.480 vocalizations is one category, and there have been a few possible vocalizations noted. 91 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:59.560 Certainly, the most distinctive for me, other than a sighting, is the 92 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:03.600 act of throwing rocks, and we've had a fair amount of that activity. 93 00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:08.920 Just earlier today, we were asking the team that was on site for most 94 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:13.519 of the day while we were gone for another responsibility, but while we were 95 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:18.279 gone, they said that there were several distinctive rock throws during the day. 96 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:23.600 If you count the evening and night hours, there were at least five distinctive 97 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:29.040 rock throws noted by that group. There's no other explanation for large rocks hitting 98 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:32.439 roofs other than either a human throwing them, and that was not the case 99 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:36.079 here, or an ape throwing them. And I heard two of those this 100 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:39.560 morning, both of them pretty clear, and one of them sounded like a 101 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:44.839 very large rock being thrown. Kathy, you've only just arrived in this and 102 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:46.439 you're going to be here for quite a while, several weeks. What do 103 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.800 you hope to experience while you're here. I hope to have a sighting, 104 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:54.839 of course, a visual, But what I hope to do is document behavior, 105 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:59.319 whether it's with a siting or not, what can be attributed to their 106 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:03.240 behavior, because we don't know an enormous amount about them, but we think 107 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:07.319 they're very much ap So I expect to see ape behavior and things that I 108 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:11.839 can correlate with other known apes and maybe tell me a little bit more of 109 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:18.319 what their level of intelligence may be. What the interest in this area may 110 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:22.680 be so that we can better plan for future events, because this is a 111 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:28.240 long term so every time we learn something, we can only make ourselves better 112 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:31.759 by using that information to our advantage. One of the things that we found 113 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:35.320 this year that we've not found in the pass is we have found boulders, 114 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:39.320 and on top of those boulders we have found the remains of hickory nuts. 115 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:45.840 This year we found in two separate locations boulders with the remains of hickory nuts. 116 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:48.559 But also on those boulders in one case, at least on top of 117 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:54.639 the hickory nuts, was another smaller rock, and it appeared that those nuts 118 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.440 had been broken with the smaller rock on top of the boulder. Can you 119 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:03.080 talk about from an anthropolgy logical standpoint the difference between using a rock to break 120 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:07.639 a nut versus some people might say that's evidence of tool use and might use 121 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:13.519 that to extrapolate their relative intelligence. Just seeing evidence of the use of a 122 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.159 rock to do something like that very intriguing because that is technically tool use, 123 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:22.200 taking a rock and using it in a method to crack something open, very 124 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:26.000 much like an otter would use a rock to crack open a hard shell. 125 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:31.360 Is tool use. That's the very definition. It's not tool making, which 126 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.840 shows higher level of intelligence that is only attributed to home sapiens, but it 127 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:41.559 does tell me that they are capable of using something in their environment to their 128 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:45.559 advantage. And up to this point, I don't believe that we have seen 129 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.360 anything like that. So even chimps will take a twig and use it to 130 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.080 help them get termines. And the other important thing that I saw that I've 131 00:09:52.080 --> 00:10:00.559 been mulling over all day was finding firewood that belong to camp located a distance 132 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:05.320 away, and it appears to have been used to strike another tree to create 133 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:09.679 wood knocking. That to me is even more intriguing because to me, what 134 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:15.320 that means is they recognized something from our camp that was beneficial to them that 135 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.200 they could not find in the natural environment. So they found a piece of 136 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:24.240 firewood more attractive than they would a branch or other piece of material out in 137 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:31.159 the landscape. And so that's very indicative of something smart, maybe not our 138 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:35.919 level smart, but still very intelligent. The difference between a piece of firewood 139 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:37.720 and a piece of just wood in the forest is that it's been dried. 140 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.879 It's all hardwood for the most part, our firewood is hardwood, Alton, 141 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:45.519 You and I yesterday found one of those in the past, and this was 142 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:48.679 even further east away from our location. Just tell me what you think about 143 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:52.799 that, and tell me what you did after we found that, just to 144 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.720 figure out where this could have come from. Yeah, the year before last 145 00:10:56.799 --> 00:11:01.320 year operational endurance, we had a number of teams that reported hearing very loud, 146 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:07.240 clearwood knocks that seemed to originate within the area of the cabins very close 147 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:11.279 and team after team reported this, and they indicated that same direction. As 148 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:16.120 we've discussed before, we stumbled across this piece of firewood that was located next 149 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:20.399 to a tree in a rock that, when struck, created the same sounds 150 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:24.799 that these teams had been reporting for so many weeks. We had that in 151 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:31.080 our heads as far as the idea of firewood with squared off ends and a 152 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:35.600 certain length, that's just kind of part of what we had in our awareness. 153 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:37.840 And when we were on this hike, we were far to the east, 154 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:45.039 hundreds of yards east of the farthest east cabin, and again we found 155 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:50.919 a piece of hardwood that was located next to a tree. It had every 156 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:56.519 appearance of having been used it was broken. Part of it was broken off, 157 00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:58.840 and it looked like and maybe it was a result of being hit against 158 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:03.399 a rock or tree, and it formed a nice handle for a human sized 159 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.720 hand. But I don't think that it was shaped like that so that an 160 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:09.480 ape could grab it easier. I think it just broke. And the other 161 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.559 end of it there was a circular indentation, a mark that looked like it 162 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:18.480 was the result of an impact with something hard, either a hard bark tree 163 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.320 or a rock. Perhaps part of what that indicated to me was the idea 164 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:30.480 that they may use wood knocking as a way of communicating among themselves, not 165 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:35.360 just as an intimidation thing or whatever else we may have speculated with regard to 166 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.240 why do they exhibit this behavior. The fact that we heard it, we 167 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:43.480 found that piece of firewood in a place where we here at the camp would 168 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:50.159 not have heard it, suggests to me that it was used for communication among 169 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:54.320 themselves. After we got back to camp, behind my tent in your tents 170 00:12:54.360 --> 00:13:01.399 a little path and behind my tent our tents just I don't know, was 171 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.519 it even twenty feet something like that, maybe less than that twelve feet or 172 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:09.600 so. Anyway, we saw right in the path a piece of firewood. 173 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:13.679 This was pine. I had the bark on it, so that was distinctly 174 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:20.960 pine. And that was a great mystery because we hadn't seen pine used as 175 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:26.320 firewood around here. And we checked all of the places where there's firewood around 176 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:28.720 here, and all of it is hardwood. This was squared off in the 177 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:33.600 end firewood length wood. I have no idea what to suggest for where that 178 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:39.559 came from, but it was not there when we arrived. That's the interesting 179 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:43.440 thing for me is that we had been through that area multiple times, and 180 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.879 as you alluded to, we're like looking for firewood where it doesn't belong, 181 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:52.360 and we're being very careful about where we put firewood so that we don't accidentally 182 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.080 get ourselves excited about something. And this piece of firewood was clearly sitting in 183 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:01.240 this trail and we did not put it there, and it had not been 184 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:05.960 there previous that. We had heard some sort of thudding sound. This is 185 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:09.440 something that we've heard here on occasion from time to time, different types of 186 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.000 thuds, but some sort of impact sound of the ground, a deep sound 187 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.679 you almost feel as much as you hear. And we had heard something from 188 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:20.639 that direction and that was in between the time that we had been in that 189 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.960 area and found the wood. That's conceivable. You can speculate that wood had 190 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.720 been chucked or something along those lines. We tested that idea too with that 191 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:31.440 very piece of wood. You threw it up in the air and when it 192 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.600 landed, it recreated the sound that sounded just like what all the team had 193 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:39.519 heard earlier. In that same direction we heard the thud of something. We 194 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:43.320 speculated at the time it sounded like a rock hitting damp earth or something. 195 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.639 But when you threw that up in the air and it landed created the same 196 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:50.360 sound from the same direction. It makes perfect sense to me that it was 197 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.360 that same piece of wood. So the other other piece of evidence that sort 198 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:58.039 of brings us to think there may have been something walking back there as there 199 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.120 was a piece of wood the ground. And tell us what you saw in 200 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:05.120 that wood. Yeah, it was a line across the path. It was 201 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:07.639 near the piece of firewood. It was a couple of inches or so in 202 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.320 diameter. It was just a stick and fallen from a tree, and it 203 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:18.759 was partially rotted. It was not rotted to the point where if you messed 204 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:22.120 with it it just fell apart. Still fairly firm, but if you stood 205 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:26.159 on it it compressed a little. There was an eight inch section of it 206 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:31.480 that was just absolutely smashed. It would have taken a great deal of weight. 207 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:37.320 I believe to have done that. Many of us stood on that piece 208 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:41.080 of wood, stopped on that piece of wood with one foot. Like I 209 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.679 say, we just compressed, And even after we'd done that, probably twenty 210 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:50.240 times or so, the wood still hadn't broken. Fairly confident based on those 211 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:54.960 observations and what happened with Jeff, that maybe something a creature and had walked 212 00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:00.679 up behind our camp during the night. The interesting bit about timing around that 213 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:03.240 is that we had when we arrived it was raining very hard, so we 214 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.639 didn't pitch our tents. The first night we actually slept in one of the 215 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.480 cabins. The night this happened was the first night that you had been in 216 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:14.679 the tents over near that little trail. With regard to the different texture of 217 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.159 activity, I don't want to say there's been less activity, because we still 218 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:19.000 sense activity, we still hear things, but there seems to be a different 219 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:22.759 texture to the way they're interacting. There may be environmental reasons for that. 220 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:26.240 Kathy, from your standpoint, do you believe the types of activity that we're 221 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:30.559 experiencing, the level of activity we're experiencing might be different this year versus last 222 00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:36.279 or the year before that. This is only year three into studies. It's 223 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:40.080 difficult to say what is less or more because it's going to ebb and flow 224 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:44.840 based on that. But so far we're halfway through and we haven't seen the 225 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:49.679 frenzied behavior that I called it from last year, where their curiosity drove them 226 00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:56.679 to do some very bold things where they wanted to have that contact with us, 227 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:02.559 And so far, nothing that we have seen has risen to that level 228 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:08.359 of frenzied behavior. We have a late spring, we have lots of water 229 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:14.319 available, We have done one thing new with this new system that we've put 230 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:19.000 in, so any combination of that can lead to disruption. It could be 231 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:23.400 that their birthing cycle is not known to us, and then maybe it runs 232 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:30.000 every two years, and now there's infants involved that may not make them inclined 233 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.599 to be any closer to us than what they've been doing. So there's all 234 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:37.279 kinds of unknowns that we probably will never know. It's hard to hypothesize because 235 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:40.960 we're not going to be able to know. But I think the team makeup 236 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:45.279 has been pretty even from the years before. I think we're seeing the same 237 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.599 people return. This year. We have a little more females on one team. 238 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:52.200 Some of the team have been bigger this year, so there were more 239 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.519 people, but I don't know that's necessarily the problem. We have a jigsaw 240 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:57.960 puzzle and all of the pieces are the same color, and we're in a 241 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:00.440 room with no light trying to put this together, and so all we have 242 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:06.119 are the observations that we have, and then all the time in between the 243 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.559 observations trying to figure out why we're observing what we're observing. And I think 244 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:14.000 that's important to note that Jane Goodall was in contact with the chimps for many 245 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:18.240 years before she even tried to hypothesize what the behavior. While she was doing 246 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.279 was reporting this is what happened, this was the result, it's X to 247 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.519 Y to ze. It didn't have any speculation, And we really have to 248 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:30.279 be careful with that because what we observe now and what our thought process of 249 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.720 why that happened in five years may be very different. I like to use 250 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:37.359 that Neanderthal example, where we have one set of bones it ended up being 251 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.960 an older man who was crippled for years. Because that was the one example 252 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:48.119 we had, our viewpoint of Neanderthal was tainted as being slow, stupid, 253 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.720 hunched over when that couldn't have been further from the truth. And we want 254 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.799 to be very careful. We know that they use their environment to their advantage. 255 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.000 We know that there's plenty of resources here. We know there's plenty of 256 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:03.000 water here, and we know that they want to be here for some reason, 257 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.400 and we know that there's more than one. Other than that, there's 258 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.079 probably not a lot of facts that we can add to that. They knock 259 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.200 would, sometimes they clack rock, sometimes they throw rocks seemingly a lot of 260 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:18.079 time. What does any of that mean. Does it mean they want us 261 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:19.960 out, or they want us to come out and play, or it has 262 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.720 nothing to do with us. They just like the sound of rock on metal 263 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.039 and it just they giggle and think that's funny. We don't know. This 264 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.079 may go on when we're not even here, and so we have no way 265 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:33.519 of knowing that information out And one of the things we've done as a group 266 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:37.759 has tried to categorize the things that we know, the observable facts that we 267 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:41.279 know, versus the things that are in the realm of speculation and then the 268 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:42.599 things that we just don't have any idea about. So, with regard to 269 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:45.640 all of what we're talking about, how does that influence how you approach this 270 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.039 and how do you think it should influence how we as an organization approached our 271 00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:52.680 work here. I think the main thing is to record what we observe, 272 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:57.480 what we experience, not to try to impute any kind of motives or to 273 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:03.640 humanize the creatures or do anything like that. Just be as objective as possible. 274 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:07.559 Record what we do, record what we observe, and try to do 275 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:12.359 the best that we can to use our limited store of knowledge to try to 276 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:21.079 improve our chances for obtaining more documentation. I guess my viewpoint would be that 277 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:23.960 we continue doing what we're doing. I know there's a lot of speculation when 278 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:27.759 we should go big and bold and do this crazy scheme over here or this 279 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:32.799 crazy scheme over here, But really we know, at least through the first 280 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:37.519 two years of study, that just being here, just being ourselves, has 281 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:41.599 caused some interaction, and so I think we are to stay the course of 282 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:48.599 doing what we're doing because it may change behavior, it may desensitize them, 283 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:52.200 it may overly sensitize them, And so we know that just being us walking 284 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:57.200 around making observations at this point has been successful, so we need to continue 285 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:02.559 doing that same method. I think that I'm in the organization and I see 286 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:06.559 it from the inside, but I think that in my mind we have an 287 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:11.680 internal dynamic that on one hand, we feel very strongly that a specimen needs 288 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:14.799 to be collected so this animal can be shown to be real, so that 289 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:18.039 the work of conservation and study can really go forth in a huge way. 290 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:22.680 But we're also trying to gather this data. So you have these conflicting drives 291 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:26.640 in our work here, and it just seems to me that there's a certain 292 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.440 level of frustration because, on one hand, collecting a specimen is a finite 293 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.880 objective. It can happen that when it happens, it'll be obvious that it 294 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:37.160 happens, Whereas the collection of data just goes on and on and then you 295 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.319 have to analyze the data and everything else. The group sitting here now, 296 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.039 our team is primarily looking for data, looking to collect information, but we've 297 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.559 had other teams that are much more involved in the other side of the mission, 298 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:51.319 which is the collection of a type specimen. One of the things that 299 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:56.480 we've talked about amongst ourselves is this idea that what happens after the species is 300 00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.359 proven, whether it happens here or elsewhere, and how does that influence our 301 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.960 organization's future. And as the chairman of the group, what are your thoughts. 302 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.000 There's a lot of people have this idea that we will be a critical 303 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.200 player and that we being everybody in the big Foot community. What's your point 304 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.640 of view on this idea of after the animal has proven? What is the 305 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:21.039 role of groups like ours and others. I think that subsequent to documentation, 306 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:26.920 you're going to have federal agencies, you're going to have private organizations, You're 307 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:33.319 going to have just a lot of focused energy that's going to be outside of 308 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:41.240 our control. Certainly, the fact that we have years of observational data I 309 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:47.440 think will be of interest to them. I think the interpretation and use of 310 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:52.279 that we're collecting data for the scientific community. Whatever we collect that's going to 311 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:59.079 be made available to the scientific community, whether or not we're involved as an 312 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:03.960 organization, is something that is outside of our control. So I frankly don't 313 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:10.000 really worry about it much or dwell upon it. I think that our primary 314 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:15.440 objective is to achieve documentation and along the way. I don't see them as 315 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:22.000 contradictory to collect as much information as we can regarding hows and whens and watts 316 00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:27.160 in terms of our activities. People that have different perspectives, I think when 317 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.799 they look at all that kind of data will come up with things that we 318 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:36.039 might not have considered. Our job is not so much interpretive as collecting, 319 00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:41.160 and our role will be out of our hands. Hopefully we'll have some kind 320 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:48.319 of involvement in subsequent years in terms of trying to express to emissions or primatologists 321 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:56.319 whoever it is that ends up responsible for the follow up research that will entail 322 00:23:56.119 --> 00:24:03.279 huge amount of energy, rest sources time. The questions that come from the 323 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:07.519 documentation of the species will be endless, and probably the first one is where 324 00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:15.960 does this species live? And that just by itself the distribution of abundance question, 325 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:22.039 that's going to be a primary focus. I think that once the documentation 326 00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.599 is achieved, the species will be declared an endangered species. I think it's 327 00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:30.880 the Secretary of the Interior that has the prerogative to do that, and that'll 328 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:37.759 provide some time then for scientists to address this distribution and abundance question and habitat 329 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.400 requirements and all that. It would make sense to me that they would look 330 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:45.200 at the databases of some of the organizations besides ours that are out there, 331 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:51.279 since we have a regional focus. The interesting thing about the endangered species declaration 332 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:55.839 is that it isn't necessarily because we know them to be endangered, just because 333 00:24:55.839 --> 00:25:00.480 that sort of freezes the table and nothing else can happen until that nation is 334 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:03.200 made. I think what we're doing is providing the baseline data, and that's 335 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:07.039 I got to emphasize data. We're not going to be providing baseline analysis or 336 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:11.559 baseline This is what we think these monkeys are doing out here. It's the 337 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:17.359 baseline data. They can are excellent at taking raw notes and turning them into 338 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:22.359 just factual sheets that can easily be turned over to if it's Fish and Wildlife 339 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.000 Service or whoever would be leading the charge of that, and I think that 340 00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:30.200 will provide them important information because at that time of discovery, you're going to 341 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.720 have everything in the world coming out of the woodwork going. They're telepathic, 342 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:40.000 they are here from aliens, and I think our documentation clearly proves that they're 343 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:45.480 flesh and blood, that they're clearly not capable of reading our minds or making 344 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.279 us telepathically do things, and so I think that will help them rule out 345 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.680 some of that stuff that they can just go no, thank you, have 346 00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:55.400 a nice day, and just push it out of the way. I'm pretty 347 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:57.039 sure it'sychic monkey made me drive my truck through a creek that was too high. 348 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:00.720 I'm very sure. I kept do to myself and why did you do 349 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.759 that? And I thought he was told to do it? It was the 350 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:07.160 monkey's doing it. Yeah, And I think that they would be declared in 351 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.240 endangered species right off the bet and it would allow, at least in my 352 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:15.599 mind, a twenty to twenty five year time period to do that research in 353 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:19.480 order to protect their habitat or protect them from hunting, would protect them from 354 00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:25.599 maybe some of their habitat being destroyed by unnecessary means, And it will be 355 00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:29.680 a root shock to a lot of industries and a lot of other individuals, 356 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.359 but I think in the end it will all be for the benefit. It's 357 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:36.839 pretty exciting to me that that is a potential out there, because many times 358 00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:40.720 when you're just by yourself. You don't see the benefit of you being out 359 00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:44.400 there for ten days and sweating it out and really having nothing happen. Ultimately, 360 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:47.279 we're a conservation group, so ultimately we're trying to make sure that their 361 00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:51.680 habitat is preserved so that they can be preserved. So everything we do should 362 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:53.920 be focused on that. And that's what's most exciting to me, is that 363 00:26:55.160 --> 00:26:59.079 after the animals established, then the work of conservation can take place. That 364 00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.599 will make what happened with the spot at Owel look like a birthday party. 365 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:06.039 But the other thing I noticed as I'm sitting with he with you guys, 366 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:10.200 is that Alton, you've been coming in here longer than anyone in an organization, 367 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:14.359 and Kathy, you were here with me when we had our sighting last 368 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:15.920 year, which I've talked about on the show, but only from my perspective, 369 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.200 and now you're here. So what I'd like to do is get to 370 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.160 a sort of transition to a conversation about experiences it. Alton, can you 371 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.720 give us a quick version of how did we end up here? How did 372 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:29.519 this place or how did it show up on our radar? I was in 373 00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:33.680 the BFRORO at the time and a fellow member and I came to this region. 374 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.559 I was interested in some spots that I'd found on topo maps, and 375 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:41.599 we by if your luck. Ran into a for service supervisor who was retired 376 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:45.880 and he'd had these creatures on his property. In visiting with him, he 377 00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:49.680 started out to show us how to get to the place I was wanting to 378 00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:53.160 get to, But there's so many roads out there for service roads that don't 379 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:56.519 show up on any maps. It was really confusing. So I asked him, 380 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:00.440 if it was up to you, where would you go? Told us 381 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:03.240 about this place and said, I think I can arrange for a guide to 382 00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:07.640 show you how to get in there. On that first trip, I was 383 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:15.240 fortunate enough to find a really good trackway. It was in dried mud, 384 00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:19.440 sixteen inch tracks. Paralleling the tracks was a set of bear tracks, large 385 00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:23.160 and then small. So that's what started. And then I started talking to 386 00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:29.160 people that owned property here and those that had long experience with this area, 387 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:32.960 and we organized a couple of expeditions when I was with the BFRO and we 388 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.720 came in here had some experiences that reconfirmed in my mind that this was a 389 00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:42.079 place where the species could be found. And so when I joined the TBRC 390 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:48.599 now the NAWAC. We were looking for areas to put camera traps, so 391 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:53.319 we came in here with the operation Forest Vigil and had cameras in here for 392 00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.480 a number of years. We didn't get any photos, but we became convinced 393 00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:00.920 that the species was here. We were already convinced that's why we were here, 394 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:07.319 but we decided to take a different tack and employ a longer range on 395 00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:11.759 site strategy. That's what we're doing now. Why do we not disclose the 396 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:18.000 location from an organizational standpoint? Why do we not just basically put a big 397 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:19.440 red X on a map and tell everybody where it is? Why do we 398 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:22.720 try to keep this place to ourselves for as long as we can. You 399 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:26.839 want to control as many variables as possible when you're doing anything from a scientific 400 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.759 perspective, and one variable we do not want to have to mess with is 401 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:34.799 that of other people. That's our primary concern. We want to know that 402 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:41.559 the things that we're observing and documenting are the result of native species of animal, 403 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.920 and that they're not the result of people coming in here. And this 404 00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:49.519 is an area that's very difficult to reach and a beautiful, pristine area, 405 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:57.279 and we're blessed to be able to come here and observe document in an unspoiled 406 00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:07.119 state. For more Sasquat Jotasy will be right back after these messages. I'm 407 00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:11.839 thinking specifically about the rocks that we found, the boulder and the nuts and 408 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.599 the little crushing rock, if that's what it is, the only way that 409 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:17.519 could be used in the way that it appears to have been used. If 410 00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:21.039 there's, as I said before, there's a boulder, there are remains of 411 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:23.160 nuts, and on top of that there is a rock. So the nuts 412 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.960 are under the rock and around the rock, so that you can sit there 413 00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.599 and look at that all day long, and you cannot come up the way 414 00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:33.519 that without the intervention of some kind of animal, those things came to be 415 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.960 organized that way. It can't be explained by anything that I can think of. 416 00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:42.079 So therefore, if it is as it appears that the rock was being 417 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:45.720 used to crush the nuts, you need to have an animal that can hold 418 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:51.640 a rock. So humans can hold rocks, and so presumably can wood ape. 419 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:53.279 So we need to be able to know that there aren't people in here 420 00:30:53.319 --> 00:30:56.279 setting up these things for us to find. Now, it's interesting that We've 421 00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.000 been finding these boulders with nuts on them for many years, so this isn't 422 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.920 the first time we've seen this. It is the first time we've seen it 423 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:06.279 with the little pounding rock in place. What are just one or two of 424 00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:11.119 the or three year eight of the sort of interesting experiences you've had in here 425 00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:15.400 over that time. I think I've mentioned before about hearing rock hitting buildings. 426 00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:19.960 Unless you experience that, you can't imagine the adrenaline rush that produces when you 427 00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:26.319 know positively that a rock hit a building or a rock was thrown at you 428 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:32.240 from this steep mountain side that's right behind us, and that people are not 429 00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:37.039 involved. That's an incredible rush. But it's also great confirmation that you're in 430 00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:42.200 the right place and that the undiscovered, undocumented species in the neighborhood. Unless 431 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:47.680 you see this place, you can't really appreciate how rugged it is, how 432 00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:52.160 dangerous it is, how difficult it is to get around, how thick the 433 00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:59.400 vegetation is, and how terrible the visibility is here. Animals can be extremely 434 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:02.119 close to you and then they just take a few steps and they seemingly disappear. 435 00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:07.240 We've seen this happen with deer bear and these creatures. It's hard for 436 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.160 people that don't get out in this kind of habitat very much to really appreciate 437 00:32:10.599 --> 00:32:15.680 the extreme difficulty of the task that we face here. But so that's part 438 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:19.640 and parcel of it, too, is being able to just be in this 439 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.799 place. Don't know how many people I've heard talk about how this is a 440 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:27.640 magical place. Like I said, it can be hot and miserable, it's 441 00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:31.640 filled with ticks and greenbrier and horrible dangers, but at the same time, 442 00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:37.880 it's beautiful and it's just a majestic place. When you're here, it's almost 443 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.799 like you feel like you're back in time or something other than around the cabin. 444 00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.240 So it doesn't seem to be jets flying over here. It's a very 445 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:49.920 quiet place. You're just in the middle of an area that almost like being 446 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:53.200 dropped into the Pleistocene or something. Mentioning yesterday that you spend a week in 447 00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:55.799 here and you get to the point where you're ready to go right and you 448 00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:59.599 load your stuff in your car or your truck and you get out. A 449 00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:01.160 day and a half after you get home, you're like, I wonder what's 450 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:04.799 going on down there? And you want to go back there again. So 451 00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:07.119 of course we've talked about this another broadcast. But yeah, the rock thing 452 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:10.319 is, that's one of their favorite behaviors. It seems I don't know why 453 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:16.880 they do it. We've noted coincidence in terms of rock torn events and our 454 00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:23.240 comings and goings. It seems that there's something pertinent along those lines. I 455 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:25.680 don't know if they do it for fun or what it is, because we've 456 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.480 had these things that guys called rock wars where we're throwing up into this green 457 00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:34.440 abyss behind us, and I guess an abyss as a hole. Anyway, 458 00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:37.720 this green wall behind us, they're throwing rocks up there and rock's coming back 459 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:40.599 out of it. I don't know if that's play or what that is, 460 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:44.880 but we know that they do it. So that's a memorable thing. And 461 00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:47.680 I was up on the roof collecting the rocks. For whatever reason, I 462 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:52.480 would ape through this rock, look at a keychain, and it'll stamp our 463 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.519 logo on it. So, Kathy, we're very close to the area that 464 00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:59.079 we had our sighting last year, but you were here too. If I 465 00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:01.920 had the worst view of what we saw, you had the best view. 466 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:07.759 So could you relate the reader's digest version or just what did you see and 467 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:09.719 what sticks with you today? And this is, I think the first time 468 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:15.119 you've been back since that time. Just what are your feelings about it now? 469 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:19.119 Just a little over a year later, what I saw was very distinctly 470 00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:23.880 two individuals walking towards us, and I wasn't paying as much attention to the 471 00:34:24.039 --> 00:34:28.400 small one as I was the big one. It just seemed like they were 472 00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:31.239 oblivious that we were there. They were trying to find a place to go 473 00:34:31.400 --> 00:34:36.360 up the mountain to get to safety. Could hear their rustling of their feet 474 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:38.239 at first, and then they broke out into the open completely, like I 475 00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:42.800 said, oblivious to us being there. I jumped up and said, there 476 00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:46.440 they are, and then I ran towards them. My actions caused them to 477 00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:50.840 bolt up the hillside to get away from us. Of course, in hindsight, 478 00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:52.039 I wish I had just let them see how close they were going to 479 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:55.039 get to us before it dawned on them that we were sitting there. But 480 00:34:55.719 --> 00:35:00.960 my attention then focused almost immediately to the big one because it was larger. 481 00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:06.480 I felt like I could get more details from their body type, what they 482 00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:09.559 look like, how they were going to move than I could the small one 483 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:13.119 quick, That's what kind of took my breath away. They went up the 484 00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.280 hillside like they had been ripped up on a bungee cord. The big one 485 00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:22.199 took its arms and tucked into its sides much like what I would envision a 486 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:25.000 power runner going up a hill would do, and was pumping them not on 487 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:28.960 all fours, nothing like that, not swinging. It was very tight to 488 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:32.440 their chest. I envisioned that they were doing that because breaking through vines and 489 00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:38.480 using their forearms to crush through it. Then it turned its feet to walk 490 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:43.079 duck like, but not webbing or anything like that, but just turned its 491 00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:45.159 feet to the side in order to get better grip going up the hill. 492 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:50.960 And as much to my surprise, I really expected that more classic tight rope 493 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.599 type walking that's talked about often, but this was definitely not that. This 494 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:57.440 was a I'm going to get up that mountain side as fast as I could 495 00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.880 possibly get and it was just like lightning going up the hillside. And then 496 00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:04.760 there was other action after that. There was actually quite a busy week, 497 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:09.000 But being back here now, I feel still very blessed that I had that 498 00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:14.280 experience, but also very enthralled that maybe I can have something like that again, 499 00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:19.239 because initially I think the whole setup of why that happened was that they 500 00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:22.960 were very curious and I can't help but wonder if that wasn't something unusual that 501 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:28.440 they heard that there was like what in the world is that horrible scratchy noise? 502 00:36:29.079 --> 00:36:30.599 Meg it stop, God, leg it stop. And they were trying 503 00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:35.119 to come in to smother me with a pillow or something. But hopefully we 504 00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:38.559 can use that kind of intrigue to bring them back in again to make an 505 00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:43.559 observation. But it also made me realize that they can easily lose track of 506 00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:47.639 us because they should have known where we were sitting, but they were oblivious 507 00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:51.239 to it, so they clearly had lost track of where we were. I 508 00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:54.159 just think that probably happens more often than not where they think X, And 509 00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:59.000 it's really why going on, and that's why those encounters happened, because they're 510 00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:01.480 not intentional. I can't think of any of the encounters we've had here where 511 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:07.039 it seemed obvious that the animal wanted to be seen. There have been occasions 512 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:09.840 the animals reacted in a way that made it seem like it didn't mind that 513 00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:14.519 it was seen, but those seemed to be very specifically around certain individuals. 514 00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:19.280 Others have been very active to get away as quickly as possible. The distraction 515 00:37:19.400 --> 00:37:22.559 thing is interesting to me, or the fact that they didn't know we were 516 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:24.239 there, even though we weren't that far away. We had been moving around 517 00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:28.079 quite a bit prior to that, and we had just come back to our 518 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:32.360 sort of base camp. You had an observation specifically around how they were moving 519 00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:37.320 that may help explain why they were not as focused on us as they may 520 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:39.920 have been. Can you speak to that. In the few seconds you had 521 00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:44.679 seen them, what did you observe them doing? What it looked like what 522 00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:49.360 was happening is the big one was trying to break to go up the hillside 523 00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:52.440 forward, and so the big one would go and then try to catch up 524 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:55.360 with the little one and go, we're going this direction, much like a 525 00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:59.800 mother would try to coach their child, you need to come with me now, 526 00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:01.840 and the child wasn't willing to, and so that's how it appeared, 527 00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:04.920 was like, Okay, let's go. No, okay, you're not coming, 528 00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:07.679 come on, let's go. And it wasn't until I said, oh 529 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.239 my god, there they are that they both became in tune with each other 530 00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:13.599 and they both went boom. But even then they didn't go the same path 531 00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:16.000 as each other. So the big one went at first without regard to the 532 00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:20.559 little one at all, and the little one I don't think followed exactly the 533 00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:22.039 same path, but I'm not sure of that, because, like I said, 534 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.159 I was totally focused on the big one. It really felt like mother 535 00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:30.199 and child. It did not have the appearance of a father who would have 536 00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:32.880 been a little more forceful in directing that child and where it wanted to go, 537 00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.760 And so it was more of a mother with a precocious little one who 538 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:42.880 was curious but unaware that there was maybe danger just another five feet. Oh, 539 00:38:42.679 --> 00:38:45.880 the big one was huge. We put Mark McClerkin, who is about 540 00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:51.519 six foot three and big boy, up on the hillside, and I stood 541 00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:54.760 in my perspective, and the big one dwarfed him, and the little one 542 00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:58.079 was roughly half that side. And when you say little one, you're thinking, 543 00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.840 well, foot tall, but it's really not at least three to four 544 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:02.519 foot tall, and I'm sure up against me because I'm not that tall, 545 00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:07.800 it would have been just slightly smaller than us. But it was completely black 546 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:12.159 face was black. There was no other color that was represented, and it 547 00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:15.079 was pure daylight. In fact, it was not all that much from where 548 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:17.519 we're talking now, and you can see how well you can see out into 549 00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:22.320 the forest. I think for me, the reason why I think it was 550 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:25.599 powerful was it wasn't what I expected. I really was expecting the slow mo 551 00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:30.360 Patty. I had all the time in the world to observe it and all 552 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.800 that, and it was it reinforced that. Oh, that's why people say 553 00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:38.400 I didn't have time to react. And then for me, even though I'm 554 00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:44.599 professional and I came here to see one, my reaction to it was very 555 00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:46.760 not what I expected of myself. I really lost my cool. I was 556 00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:52.079 really okay, honey, it's time to go home now, and I've had 557 00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:55.119 enough. And I had a slight meltdown because I had to get that stress 558 00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:59.159 out of me that where before or I was going to have a panic attack 559 00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:01.239 or something because it was is not what I expected. Again, what I 560 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.159 expected was Patty. I expected her to. I guess stroll through can give 561 00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:10.559 me half an hour? Does photographer in various positions. It's the freaking out 562 00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:14.880 thing, at least for me, because I think we were all pretty affected 563 00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:17.559 by what we had seen, and I kept going on about this when I 564 00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:21.360 talked about it, But the speed of the thing was just mind blowing. 565 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:23.239 And it's interesting you say that I expected it to look like Patty, because 566 00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:27.679 we have another member who had a siding early on this year. He didn't 567 00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:30.280 process what he was seeing at first because he said he always thought he would 568 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:34.960 see Patty. And it seems that that image is almost to our detriment now 569 00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:37.280 because we all expect it's going to be the Pattison Gillman subject. A lot 570 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.079 of them that we see here, the three or four that we've seen, 571 00:40:40.119 --> 00:40:44.519 perhaps they don't fit into that, but they do in a way. You 572 00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:46.599 can tell somebody all you want to is some things they flot Tom Weays five 573 00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:50.960 hundred pounds. But until you see what that looks like, you don't have 574 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:53.480 a perspective of what that's supposed to look like. And I've grown up in 575 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:55.960 the forest. I've seen barrafs and everything, and when I see a baron, 576 00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:00.039 when I see a bearf I see coyote, I want to say coyote. 577 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:05.119 And this didn't fit my image of what I was expecting. So if 578 00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:08.360 you comparing contrast to the Pattison, England subject, which I believe anyone who 579 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:10.960 listens to the show knows that I think that this is a genuine film of 580 00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:15.719 a genuine animal. We've got as an organization, have photos we've collected from 581 00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:19.280 other parts of Oklahoma that seem to show an animal that look like Patty. 582 00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:22.039 The gray one that we've seen here, the bits of it that we have 583 00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:24.599 seen look very much like Patty. That animal looks more like Patty than any 584 00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:29.280 others. So now what you have just collection of different body types. So 585 00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:35.719 if now Patty is genuine her lack of alacrity in getting away from Patterson and 586 00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:39.239 Gimlin, all you're left with is this is the observation. We cannot say 587 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:44.760 why Patty didn't bolt, didn't jump and move as quickly as we've observed them 588 00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:46.760 moving here. The gray one doesn't either. Yeah, it behaves indifferently when 589 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:51.400 it has been observed, it seems. And the question so why people ask, 590 00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:53.239 We don't know. In the end, what we're going to hopefully be 591 00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:59.880 documentaris because we're documenting time of day, time of year, season, condition, 592 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:02.519 what we saw, what color was it, the height, whatever. 593 00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:07.679 At some point we're going to be able then to put male female age, 594 00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:12.719 other thing going on, and it may be what we see in the end 595 00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:16.440 is genders act differently, situations act to who else is also present. Maybe 596 00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:21.519 the great Man acts differently because he knows or she knows that she's got four 597 00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:24.880 others in the sidelines. We're just recording the data and at some point it 598 00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:29.360 will make sense and it will all come together because somebody will see the other 599 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:31.679 half that we're not seeing. The best and clearest view of the great One 600 00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:37.159 we've had here was later in the season, and Patty was filmed in October, 601 00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:38.559 and it's interesting to me that those are late in season. A lot 602 00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:40.639 of animals put on a lot of weight over the summer when the food is 603 00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:45.400 plentiful, so that's just another possibility they just get fat. They're going to 604 00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:46.400 be cold, and there's gonna be a lot of food. So again, 605 00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:50.800 you just need more observation. If we could have somebody here three hundred and 606 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:54.440 sixty five days a year, we would then be able to tell what goes 607 00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:57.920 on when we're not here because we don't have any clude. For all they 608 00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:00.840 know, they sit at the table and to play poker and rummage through all 609 00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:05.079 our stuff. And now it was an observation that I wanted to make before, 610 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:09.159 was why the firewood is so important to me is because there are items 611 00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:14.760 that they can take at any time, including food, and that has not 612 00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:20.400 happened. And why firewood when I have my choice of meat or free food, 613 00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:22.719 vegetables, fruit, all this stuff. None of that stuff has ever 614 00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:27.199 been disturbed, which is what you'd expect with bear behavior, of course, 615 00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:32.519 but instead they're choosing to take firewood, which to us is a throwaway nothing 616 00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:38.920 item, And so it adds a perspective of what they consider valuable. That 617 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:44.679 they're not interested in metal items, they're not mess interested in tools that we 618 00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:49.039 already have, producer mirrors or any of that items. We had an experience 619 00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:53.480 earlier in the operation that I'll just say there was activity near our woodshed and 620 00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:59.000 what we heard was the sound of the metal corrugated roof being messed with. 621 00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:01.360 When we found that fire, it changed our perspective on what may have been 622 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:07.199 happening over there. It probably indicated that the firewood was the objective, and 623 00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:09.360 the sound I think was secondary to that. I don't think they went over 624 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:13.159 there to rub the sheet of There was a loose sheet up there. You 625 00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:15.960 can rub it back and forth and make a really loud noise. I don't 626 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.960 think they were there to make noise. I think that was incidental to their 627 00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:22.760 primary objective, which is a snag themselves a good piece of firewood. In 628 00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:25.079 my mind, all of this, to me ties back. We have so 629 00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:31.440 many questions, and we have remarkably little actual data and practically no answers whatsoever. 630 00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:36.119 And the only way the data and the answers will come about is with 631 00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:42.639 concerted study, with twenty four seven three sixty five study of these animals where 632 00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:46.559 they live, and that won't happen until they're proven to exist. So for 633 00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:50.719 me, all of this just ties back neatly into a little package for us. 634 00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:55.239 One of my favorite things is seeing the reactions of other people when they 635 00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:59.880 come here. You can't guarantee that anything will ever happen, or that anyone 636 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:04.719 person will have something happen, But over the years it's been terrific to bring 637 00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:07.320 in people like you. We brought you in here and you saw and experienced 638 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:12.880 things that you probably never would have imagined. And remember John mind since give 639 00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.760 you brought him in here and he had some really neat observations and experiences, 640 00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:22.400 and Kathy, it's very different when you have one person who makes outlandish claims 641 00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:23.920 and they keep going and coming back and saying, I have this, I've 642 00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:29.880 seen this, when you're bringing in lots of people who you trust and who 643 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:34.400 you have confidence in yourself. Kathy and Bob Strain, they were brought in 644 00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:37.519 here and they were able to confirm for themselves. At least. It certainly 645 00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:43.039 hasn't convinced the scientific community, but it's a great joy to see the people 646 00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:46.960 observing and experiencing the same things that we've been saying and seeing. We're upwards 647 00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:52.320 of a dozen people who have had really compelling experiences down here, excitings like 648 00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:55.360 an actual I saw a big harry monkey and I know they're not monkeys, 649 00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:59.119 all right. Thanks guys for sitting down. I know out and you're getting 650 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:00.639 ready to bug out, and Kathy, you're just getting ready to settle in 651 00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:04.880 here. So I appreciate this little nexus of the time that you were both 652 00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.559 available. We've known each other since ninety nine. I think we figured out 653 00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:13.920 for probably for four years. We were like BFRORO friends communicating with each other 654 00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:17.159 to the Investigator Curator forums, and we met in two thousand and three, 655 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:22.760 and it's just been great to be able to see her again. Thank you 656 00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:24.760 guys very much, and thanks for talking to me. Next up, it's 657 00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:29.519 Kathy again, along with Monica Rollins. They were talking to me one dark 658 00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:31.280 night, as we said, around a campfire, waiting for those pesky wood 659 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:35.400 apes to make themselves known. You're going to hear us make mention of various 660 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:37.280 things during this interview. They were happening around us, but you won't be 661 00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:40.320 able to hear them yourself due to the type of microphone I was using. 662 00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:44.199 In fact, I had headphones on and I can only hear what was recording, 663 00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:46.079 so I didn't hear any of it as it happened either. You can 664 00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:50.280 only barely make out the nice fire we had going and all of it's popping 665 00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:52.719 and crackling. So anyway, here's Kathy and Monika. Okay, So now 666 00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:58.079 it's a few days after my conversation with Kathy and Alton and in the middle 667 00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:01.519 of actual bigfooting at this point, aren't we It's funny we were talking about 668 00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:06.559 how the activity was low on the last conversation and now we've actually had some 669 00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:08.559 interesting activity. So I thought it would be a good opportunity now to talk 670 00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:13.639 to Kathy Strain again and Monica Rollins. We're the only three here right now. 671 00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:15.320 We've had a larger crew, but two of them have left today, 672 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:19.960 so it's just the three of us and we're sitting around a campfire. Kathy, 673 00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:22.599 what's happened in the past couple of days. How would you characterize the 674 00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:29.559 activity that's happened around us. It's been very active. We've had lots of 675 00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:35.480 rock throws, lots of appearing to want to be close to us and observe 676 00:47:35.559 --> 00:47:38.599 what we're doing. We've had at least what I would call a primate display 677 00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:45.440 out of anger or the need to show that we have a dominant mail in 678 00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:49.400 this area. So it's been very exciting and a little intimidating all at the 679 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.239 same time. But I'm enjoying it because it's behavior that needs to be recorded. 680 00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:57.159 I'm excited to be here to see it firsthand. Monica, it's been 681 00:47:57.159 --> 00:47:59.360 a while since you were in x when's the last time you were here, 682 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.760 so I think it was January of twenty ten. What are your impressions of 683 00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:09.320 it thus far? I am very impressed with the increased activity because the last 684 00:48:09.320 --> 00:48:14.920 time I was here, there really wasn't much going on. We would always 685 00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.159 when we would come in, mostly in the summers, we would hear what 686 00:48:17.239 --> 00:48:22.880 we assumed. We're not sitting the roof of the place where at Now seeing 687 00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:27.119 that that's leading to more and more activity in this area is very interesting. 688 00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:30.039 So you were here daring Was it the camera trap operations? That's the last 689 00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:31.840 time you were here? Yes, Kathy. The other night. One of 690 00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:36.360 the first notable things that I'm remembering off the top of my head that happened 691 00:48:36.519 --> 00:48:42.119 is we're sitting around a campfire ring that's maybe thirty or forty yards from where 692 00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:44.519 my truck is parked, and my truck is parked up against the woods, 693 00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:46.760 and you saw something over there. Can you describe what you saw behind my 694 00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:51.840 truck? Yes, we have a pretty large fire going almost every night. 695 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:57.960 I was looking towards your truck and the only light was the fire. I 696 00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:02.960 saw two orange eyes that were perfectly round that was on the driver's side looking 697 00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:07.079 at me, and I could see it through the passenger window, and it 698 00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:09.480 looked at me, it looked away, then it looked back at or not 699 00:49:09.559 --> 00:49:13.000 me in particular, I guess, more like at the fire and the firelight 700 00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:16.320 was catching its eyeshine. Then I saw it lower like it was going to 701 00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:21.039 move, and then we heard something big move off into the brush fairy. 702 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:24.400 Suddenly, those aren't reflections because I'm looking at my truck then and now and 703 00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:28.039 the fire is not reflecting it in the window. So that's not what that 704 00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:30.760 was. What's interesting about that is we've had some of the other members who 705 00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:35.320 were here perceived what they thought was motioned. And also last night, I 706 00:49:35.440 --> 00:49:37.719 was going to my tent is pitched over there, and I was going to 707 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:42.159 go into my tent, and as I walked over towards my truck, I 708 00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:46.360 heard from behind the truck in the woods right behind my truck three loud, 709 00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:53.880 very discernible footsteps sort of crunch moving away from me as I was walking over 710 00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:58.039 there. So I put everything down, lit up the area. I told 711 00:49:58.039 --> 00:50:00.559 everyone what I had heard. It took a lot for them to come over, 712 00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:05.280 maybe I don't know, twenty seconds. And as I was moving around 713 00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:07.920 the woods over there, I can continue to hear something in there moving further 714 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:12.960 away. But I also heard what I can only describe as like a gibbering 715 00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:19.000 whispering, a sort of a kind of weird ass sound that I've never heard 716 00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:22.960 before in my life. Moniky, you also heard some interesting sounds last night, 717 00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:25.800 not too long after that. What were those like? As I was 718 00:50:25.960 --> 00:50:30.159 collecting my things from my tent, I turned around to walk back to the 719 00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:35.719 cabin, and I could have sworn I heard from a very low, garbled 720 00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:39.079 whisper similar to what you heard. Wow, and it was. It sounds 721 00:50:39.079 --> 00:50:44.079 weird. It's not something you expect to hear while you're trying to get into 722 00:50:44.119 --> 00:50:46.599 a cabin from a tent. So there's all kinds of sounds that happen out 723 00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:51.480 here. You get used to the ones that are quote unquote normal, and 724 00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:53.960 then when something new comes along. One of the things we had experimented with 725 00:50:54.280 --> 00:51:01.880 NAWAC recorded some vocalizations a couple of years ago during Operation Endurance that sounded to 726 00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:05.760 those of us who've listened to it not unlike the Sierra Sounds. One of 727 00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.360 the things that we had talked about doing last night was actually call blasting part 728 00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:14.000 of the Sierra Sounds. It's Sierra Sound vocalization one is the one we were 729 00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:16.480 using. It's the one that the people on the Sierra Sounds I think is 730 00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:20.920 a female. We picked it because we thought it was the least aggressive, 731 00:51:20.920 --> 00:51:23.719 but in listening to it, maybe we were wrong about that, especially in 732 00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:27.960 light of what happened. We had sent that out. We had decided to 733 00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:30.480 go to bed. The first time we decided to go to bed was when 734 00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:32.679 the thing walked behind the truck. That sound that got us riled up for 735 00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:36.119 about another hour or so. Then we're like, Okay, this time, 736 00:51:36.119 --> 00:51:37.880 we're really going to go to bed, even though part of it happened to 737 00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.119 me. You're tired of listening to my voice. I'm going to have Kathy 738 00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:44.880 describe what happened next. Essentially, we had decided that we were going to 739 00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:47.440 attend for a second time to go to bed. The girls had gone inside 740 00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:52.519 to the cabin to get ready. Brian had a radio and he was going 741 00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:55.119 to do a radio check. So I was busy bothering around and he had 742 00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:59.480 called a couple of times. Then I had not responded, and then he 743 00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:01.840 yelled out radio check and I heard him. So I called back on the 744 00:52:01.880 --> 00:52:06.159 radio to do the radio check and verified that both our radios were working, 745 00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:07.920 and I shall yelled at really loud because I heard it actually echo in the 746 00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:12.400 valley when I did it. And next thing I know, I'm getting ready 747 00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:16.039 to go to bed, and Brian get moved our chairs over to a side 748 00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:20.199 area to protect it from any rain that we were expecting to come. The 749 00:52:20.199 --> 00:52:24.440 following morning, Brian realized that he had left his gun attached to his chair 750 00:52:24.559 --> 00:52:30.559 and he was walking over to the east side of the cabin all of a 751 00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:32.480 sudden, all I can describe is, at first what I heard was all 752 00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:37.760 these rocks starting to dislodge, and then I heard the very distinct cracking of 753 00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:42.440 a tree coming down, like it was being pushed over. And I heard 754 00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:46.519 Brian yell out tree, and we all heard the crashing noise, and it 755 00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:51.920 took me just a little bit to recognize cracking representative tree. So I ran 756 00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:54.360 outside barefoot. I didn't even have my gun or anything, and we just 757 00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:58.880 all ran out, and we could still hear the thing kind of clamoring down. 758 00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:00.760 It was still in the process of trying to come to rest someplace. 759 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:07.360 It was very clear to me what had happened is Brian had now whether it 760 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:12.119 would have pushed a tree down, whether or not. But Brian's action of 761 00:53:12.199 --> 00:53:15.719 going to the side of the cabin while the rest of us were inside safe, 762 00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:21.320 I think was very intimidating to what was on the hillside already watching us, 763 00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:24.679 and so its reaction was one you would expect an ape, a chimper 764 00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:30.719 guerrilla to do to try to intimidate the dominant male that was encroaching on its 765 00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:34.920 territory. And so had Brian not gone and gotten his gun, would it 766 00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:38.320 have happened. We don't know. Was there an imaginary line that those wood 767 00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:44.119 apes have that they don't want anybody crossing? Probably yes, Had a female 768 00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:46.800 genet would they have reacted the same? Probably not. That's ape behavior, 769 00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:51.719 and it doesn't mean that even though we recognized that it was a display that 770 00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:54.800 was any less intimidating. For sure. It was just like because then all 771 00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:59.760 of us left in the county, nobody dead off limits to that point. 772 00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:04.079 So we had done the Sierra sounds, and then I had been making calls 773 00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:06.599 myself. I was trying to imitate the bar owl. I wasn't trying to 774 00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:09.119 make big foot howls or anything, but I was making loud noises and screaming 775 00:54:09.159 --> 00:54:12.679 and yell. And so the situation that we had had here for the past 776 00:54:12.679 --> 00:54:15.519 couple of days, it was myself and four women. So if you're looking 777 00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:19.559 down there, and you're a primate and you have a collection of people around 778 00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:22.239 you, of a monkey's or apes around you. I don't know, did 779 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:23.400 they think that I was a dominant mail did they think that they need to 780 00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:27.400 make some sort of display. I did feel that when I walked over there, 781 00:54:28.159 --> 00:54:31.079 I took a bee line right towards where my chair was, where the 782 00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:36.400 holster was slung over the chair. Directly above that is where the tree was 783 00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:38.320 pushed down. Now I had lit it up with my flashlight. I didn't 784 00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:42.679 see any emotion up there, but it sounded huge and you could hear it 785 00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:45.719 just like crack, snap, snap, snap, and then crash really loud. 786 00:54:45.159 --> 00:54:47.400 So yeah, I felt that it was that it was aimed at me. 787 00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:51.000 Monachy, you were in your tent when you heard that. What was 788 00:54:51.400 --> 00:54:53.559 going through your mind when you heard the tree come down? I knew immediately 789 00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:57.519 from the sound what it was because I've heard trees fall before, and it 790 00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:00.000 was that crack and crack, quite quite crash, And I just said, 791 00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:02.800 they're thinking, I hope it doesn't hit the cabin, And then I thought, 792 00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:06.400 all that activity is going on the other side of the cabin. I'm 793 00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:12.199 sitting over here by myself. I was fully expecting something to happen behind me, 794 00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:15.519 the area behind me, which is heavily wooded, and we have had 795 00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:17.880 activity going on back there, and then you started yelling. Everybody came out, 796 00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:21.440 and I was concerned because I didn't know where the tree had landed. 797 00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:27.000 The reason why I'm fairly confident saying that it's aprilated is as we looked up 798 00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:29.920 there, I saw Kathy saw. I think it was just the two of 799 00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:32.920 us. Saw some flashes of orange eye shine. What do you point in 800 00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:37.559 a rock? Just what hit over by the tent? Excellent? Excellent? 801 00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:42.000 Maybe I did not hit my truck. I'm gonna be pissed off. So 802 00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:45.199 we were looking up there, we saw some eye shine. Then we came 803 00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:49.400 back around the fire Monica. About half an hour later something happened. What 804 00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:52.280 happened after that? Oh the rock, Oh my gosh, that was very 805 00:55:52.280 --> 00:55:55.480 interesting. It was definitely not a nut falling out of the tree, which 806 00:55:55.519 --> 00:55:58.800 is always something that we have to try to discern. Was it a rock, 807 00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:00.800 was it in a nut. It's hard to tell a lot of the 808 00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:05.639 time, but this I could hear it. Actually, the leaves starting far 809 00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:08.960 away, getting closer than thud it landed about fifteen feet from the fire, 810 00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:14.119 which was incredibly close because so far, nothing that's been tossed at us or 811 00:56:14.199 --> 00:56:16.880 fallen from trees has been quite that close. So that was very interesting. 812 00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:20.840 And I was able to walk over and look right at what had been thrown. 813 00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:22.280 You saw the rock on the ground that had just landed there from up 814 00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:25.760 on the hillside. Yeah, that was very interesting. I hadn't ever experienced 815 00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:29.639 anything quite like that before. It was very close, and I could hear 816 00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:32.159 the trajectory of the rock coming through the leaves far away, closer thud there 817 00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:36.360 is. That's what it's really compelling, is when you can hear it moving 818 00:56:36.400 --> 00:56:38.559 through the sort of the foliage of the trees, because then you get a 819 00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:42.320 sense of the directions coming from. And it did come from the direction almost 820 00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:45.760 exactly where we perceived eyeshine and in the direction of where the tree had fallen 821 00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:51.400 down. The other thing that happened directly just after the tree was pushed down 822 00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:55.400 is there's another cabin to our south, and we heard unmistakable sounds of rocks 823 00:56:55.480 --> 00:57:00.239 hitting the tin roof of that cabin. So that happened immediately afterwards. You 824 00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:05.360 saw a little eye shine up here. Okay, cool, that's essentially the 825 00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:09.440 sort of headline of the activity. I think that it was fun. Yeah, 826 00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:13.079 today when the sun was up, it was fun. The other thing 827 00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:15.280 that happened I'll mention before we sign off here and pay more attention to what's 828 00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:19.599 happening on the hillside above us. The other day I was driving out. 829 00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:22.159 We had some people who were leaving and I was driving them out of the 830 00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:25.920 canyon because they didn't have a vehicle that could make the trip. Unmistakable sounds 831 00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:29.559 of rocks hitting the roof of one of those cabins over there, And as 832 00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:31.920 Monica said, the nuts are falling this time of year. Especially the nuts 833 00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:36.800 are green and the ones that are being chewed on by insects have started to 834 00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.000 fall, so you have to be careful. But the nuts sound is a 835 00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:44.079 sort of a lighter, plinkier sound. When the rocks hit it's a much 836 00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:47.639 deeper and more sort of noticeable rock sound. In any event, we had 837 00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:51.599 heard that twice in about five minutes from the direction that we were about to 838 00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.199 be driving. So as we were driving out, I was keeping my eyes 839 00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:57.960 open. We were all keeping our our eyes open looking in that general direction. 840 00:57:58.000 --> 00:58:00.480 And as we came around a clump of trees and one of the cabins 841 00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:05.559 became visible. I saw on the left side of the cabin motion. It 842 00:58:05.599 --> 00:58:08.440 was tall. It was taller than the fence. It was brown. It 843 00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:12.840 was taller than it was wide. All I can say is that couldn't make 844 00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:15.960 out a head or arms or anything like that. But it was a definite 845 00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:19.679 brown. It was in motion when I saw it. It was over as 846 00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:22.280 soon as I saw it. It was a second long. I believe what 847 00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:25.239 happened is that whatever it was moved behind the cabin and took off into the 848 00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:28.599 undergrowth behind the cabin. So I don't know what to call that. I 849 00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:30.920 don't know. I'm not going to say that's an actual sighting. I don't 850 00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:32.639 know what it was. It was brown, tall, and moving, so 851 00:58:32.679 --> 00:58:36.519 I'll leave it at that. So that's what we got here from aria X, 852 00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:38.159 and I'll leave it at that, and don't just keep paying attention to 853 00:58:38.199 --> 00:58:42.199 what's happening on the hill behind us. Finally, I have an interview with 854 00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:46.719 the inimitable Darryl Collier, field coordinator of the NAWAC. Daryl receives and compiles 855 00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:51.199 each team's field notes and analyzes the results He's the guy to talk to if 856 00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:53.400 you want the big picture of what's happening in x I reached Dale at his 857 00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:57.840 home in Waco, Texas. So you've heard the interviews that I did with 858 00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:02.559 Alton mccathy and Monica's interesting because over the course of just the few days that 859 00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:07.679 I recorded those, it seemed as though the activity level had been increasing. 860 00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:12.360 What's happened since the time that I spoke to Kathy and Monica the interview that 861 00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:16.199 everyone just heard, What's happened in the couple of weeks since then, we've 862 00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:23.000 had what appears to be our substantial increase in rock throwing. The team we 863 00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:27.199 just came out of there, we refer to them as Golf Team. We've 864 00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:30.679 already took together what we call the after action Report. That's a report that 865 00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:35.559 we put together and it's based on the field journals of the team. We've 866 00:59:35.559 --> 00:59:38.199 already put that together and we've already begun to do an analysis of the activity 867 00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:43.320 and that took place there. Golf team, which was there for one week, 868 00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:51.800 had more rock throws during their week than any team choir. And that 869 00:59:51.880 --> 00:59:57.320 includes all of Operation Relentless, Operation Persistence, and Operation Endurance. So basically 870 00:59:57.880 --> 01:00:02.239 almost three years now of these fields that and they experienced just an incredible number 871 01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:07.480 of rocks. And stay tuned for more sasquatch out to see. We'll be 872 01:00:07.559 --> 01:00:15.679 right back after these messages. Incredible, ridiculous and they'll putn't you gether in 873 01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:19.400 the after action report. I was sure you're going to let up in. 874 01:00:20.119 --> 01:00:23.119 It was perfect for the name of the drill study, which is operational relentless, 875 01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:30.679 because the rock throwing was relentless. Now my question, I wonder falling 876 01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:34.719 victim to some nuts falling from tree, because there are nuts falling from trees 877 01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:37.679 and they're not ripe yet, but some of the raw nuts are falling. 878 01:00:37.239 --> 01:00:42.639 And the thing is that that trace is covered with hickory tree, kickey trees, 879 01:00:42.679 --> 01:00:45.360 and black walnut trees. It's bothered with them. Obviously, logically, 880 01:00:45.960 --> 01:00:49.960 out of all the rock throws will be docued in when I'm able to see 881 01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:52.199 all those rocks. In fact, not even able to see the vast majority 882 01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:57.159 of them, And you would have to tune it. Perhaps a small percentage 883 01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:00.920 of those the probably nuts. But you're da interesting thing if there are nuts 884 01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:06.679 falling. I don't say that all the rocks that they documented are rocks that 885 01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:09.800 I think the batchment card you have them were truly rocks. But if he's 886 01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:14.480 suppose fifty percent of them or now we've got frank finalenon going on, because 887 01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:20.440 there were a very few impact down that they recorded as rocks during the daytime, 888 01:01:21.159 --> 01:01:22.480 right, so what with god? If you're in the daytime, the 889 01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:28.480 team here a significant number of what we call wood knocking cauring the daytime, 890 01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:34.880 and then once the thund goes down, the wood knocking subside and it's replaced 891 01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:38.800 with a more regrettive sort of bound which is stolen on metal, whether it's 892 01:01:38.800 --> 01:01:45.159 the cabin they're staying in or whether it be other cabin in the immediate area. 893 01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:47.840 But the wood knopping all that get the piers after dark, and it's 894 01:01:47.880 --> 01:01:54.079 replaced by banging on metal or rocks or rock impact noises on metal. You 895 01:01:54.199 --> 01:01:59.480 might be able to argue somewhat that they're mistaking some nuts falling at the watch, 896 01:01:59.559 --> 01:02:02.079 but I don't see how because one thing they catch it, the differences 897 01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:06.960 expect that that's the fall all day long. Yeah, that's your point, 898 01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:09.880 right. If you want to take the most skeptical point of view, then 899 01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:13.679 then you'd have to come up with an explanation is the white nuts only fall 900 01:02:13.920 --> 01:02:15.119 during the night, and they don't fall during the day because we don't hear 901 01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:19.199 during the day. When I was in there, the nuts would fall. 902 01:02:19.199 --> 01:02:22.039 And the thing is, you learn to tell the difference because the sound of 903 01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:27.039 a little nut, a little woody piece of vegetable matter hitting a tin roof 904 01:02:27.559 --> 01:02:30.920 is one thing. And whenever I heard that, even though those things could 905 01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:35.480 have been also thrown by whoever or whatever was throwing the rocks, you can't 906 01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:37.159 know for a fact where it came from, so you'd have to discount that. 907 01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:39.920 But when a rock hits a metal roof, that's a very different sound. 908 01:02:40.639 --> 01:02:44.119 And our came bent to debt. First of all, they do roof 909 01:02:44.159 --> 01:02:46.760 sweeps almost every day or every other day, and they found on the on 910 01:02:46.880 --> 01:02:52.880 the roots of the structures a significant number of rocks. Some would have died, 911 01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:57.800 the large coins, and some, interestingly were the side of beans small. 912 01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:01.280 So it cants some difference between the small beam sized rock, the hittory 913 01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:06.119 nuts and the black walnuts, and the sound. The theme there's a pretty 914 01:03:06.119 --> 01:03:10.320 good difference, and that the rocks don't roll, the nuts roll, they 915 01:03:10.360 --> 01:03:14.400 sound the fame when they hit these nuts in these very small rocks. But 916 01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:19.400 it's the after effects of the nuts or the rocks the coality to tell the 917 01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:22.960 difference. But here's the thing I'm reading straight from our after action report, 918 01:03:22.039 --> 01:03:27.360 Dear. This is in the early morning howls of Wednesday, the twelfth of 919 01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:31.880 June. Our chin has been subjected to rock going put the gun went down, 920 01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:37.000 they went to bed at three am three o nine. The documented another 921 01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:40.519 rock hitting the roof of the cabin. Three twenty one, another rock strikes 922 01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:45.880 the bait cant cabin metal root. Three forty three. Yet another rock hits 923 01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:52.320 the bait can't cabin roof. Rocks whirl continue to strike the roof of the 924 01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:57.000 bait camp cabin. Hayes wondered if the h ever rested as another rock hit 925 01:03:57.039 --> 01:04:01.199 the bait can't cabin roof with the fun just from rising, another rock pops 926 01:04:01.239 --> 01:04:06.159 the cabin rooge. Now guess what they stopped right there? The sun is 927 01:04:06.199 --> 01:04:12.000 coming up. The rocks stop. I'm just standing here. It's not until 928 01:04:13.000 --> 01:04:15.880 going to look to the next rock frill. It's not until much later then 929 01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:19.360 eleven o'clock the next night. Right, So there you go, no nuts 930 01:04:19.400 --> 01:04:23.880 and the time the sun would up until a couple of hours after the sun 931 01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:27.440 would down, and then if you want to think for nuts, go ahead. 932 01:04:27.480 --> 01:04:30.519 But the nuts start falling again at eleven o'clock the next night. They 933 01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:38.199 continue until oh six hundred. The next morning, the rock wrote seat at 934 01:04:38.239 --> 01:04:42.000 old six hundred, just as a bundet coming up here, another one at 935 01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:45.079 ten towards bixail here any more rocks until the next night after nine to pet 936 01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:49.280 them. There's definitely a correlation between's activity that we're observing and whether or not 937 01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:53.960 there's daylight, which doesn't make sense if you're trying to describe to the nut 938 01:04:53.960 --> 01:04:58.039 theory. So it's interesting what's different this year. I had talked earlier without 939 01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:01.079 LN Cathy. Things seem to be slower at the beginning of the operation, 940 01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:05.480 where in years past we had activity in the second week where we had some 941 01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:09.559 pretty intense things happened. I know I was there last year in the second 942 01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:12.880 week and had some interesting things happen, but that isn't really what we've seen 943 01:05:12.920 --> 01:05:16.000 this year. We have a gent environmentally that things changed. I think everybody 944 01:05:16.039 --> 01:05:20.559 that's participated so far this year wearing There are eight team right now, Hotel 945 01:05:20.639 --> 01:05:27.800 team about dinner, so everybody that's participated in the first four to five weeks 946 01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:32.039 agreed pretty much for a person environmental conditions being to be late. Seemed to 947 01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:36.039 be a late spring. It's definitely a letter spring than it had ever been. 948 01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:40.159 It just we've been going in there. I don't remember I've been going 949 01:05:40.199 --> 01:05:44.719 in there for a decade. Just unbelievable amounts of rain and day after day 950 01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:47.719 of it, and indebted. It was pretty cool late into the year this 951 01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:50.760 year aloud. For the first team this year, and we only started a 952 01:05:50.800 --> 01:05:57.239 week earlier than we did last year. I would put the first team it 953 01:05:57.280 --> 01:06:00.320 would found out Philly first week, and I think it was part of that 954 01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:01.599 way the second week as well, if you were there for the second team. 955 01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:05.800 Yeah, it was much colder, comparing the two Bravos Bravo Persistence and 956 01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:11.599 Bravo Relentless. But there was a week shift. But the foliage was maybe 957 01:06:12.199 --> 01:06:15.880 maybe seventy percent what it had been a year before. I was needing to 958 01:06:15.880 --> 01:06:17.840 wear a jacket much more often. It was much cooler and as we had 959 01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:20.519 said, much wetter. Though that week wasn't as bad as my second week 960 01:06:20.559 --> 01:06:24.000 in there. That was a really wet week. I bet we had ten 961 01:06:24.039 --> 01:06:28.119 inches of rain that week, unbelievable mounts of water the week that I was 962 01:06:28.119 --> 01:06:30.880 in there for Bravo this year, I came out thinking a few things that 963 01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:33.159 happened, but it wasn't as eventful. It really in the past couple of 964 01:06:33.199 --> 01:06:36.440 weeks seems to have picked up quite a bit. I think anckle ching was 965 01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:41.800 really the turning point, the hinge. Right, Yeah, I will not 966 01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:45.199 classify the first full week and it's dead at all. Well, the reason 967 01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:49.639 I said we're coming out of operation, which was just incredible, I think 968 01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:53.800 we're a little bit defensive. Dodge went a little bit numb to what's going 969 01:06:53.840 --> 01:06:56.719 on out there. I think if you brought somebody in that was told me 970 01:06:56.800 --> 01:07:00.400 fresh and had never experienced any of this before, I think could be away. 971 01:07:00.920 --> 01:07:04.159 Which team Will went in with. But comparatively speaking to say, Bravo, 972 01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:08.440 Alpa and Keto, I think had the most activity last year compared to 973 01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:11.480 the other free team for just now in the last two or two to three 974 01:07:11.480 --> 01:07:15.519 weeks, seeing it for high level of activity, and I can't account for 975 01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:20.599 it other than maybe environmental conditions, but it's also another factor. Kathy straining 976 01:07:21.480 --> 01:07:26.760 in her third week now and coincidentally, things started to pick up really a 977 01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:29.719 little bit before Cappy got there, but when Katy got there, it is 978 01:07:29.880 --> 01:07:32.039 what it is, right, Kathy was on Fox Trot team. She's on 979 01:07:32.159 --> 01:07:34.960 Echo and we haven't heard from Hotel, but we don't know what's been going 980 01:07:35.000 --> 01:07:39.119 on out there. For the last several days. She's been out there with 981 01:07:39.280 --> 01:07:44.880 Hotel team. Fox Trot and Golf were the two most active teams. Probably 982 01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:46.519 Album would have been third. We haven't crunched all the numbers yet. I 983 01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:49.840 was on the Fox Trot team and it was almost as active as we'd experienced 984 01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:54.119 last year in the second week, just a different texture of things. But 985 01:07:54.320 --> 01:07:57.320 besides the rocks, what kinds of we've had a member with a clear daylight 986 01:07:57.440 --> 01:08:00.320 sighting. We've had just one of those this year, right, Yeah, 987 01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:04.440 we had one very queer siding. We've had a few others that were likely, 988 01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:12.280 and in the first week I actually had a very possible siding. I 989 01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:15.039 don't know what help that could have been, but I did not get a 990 01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:19.720 clear enough visual and the way these things, the color of the two animals 991 01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:24.279 that I saw, just the way things happened. We had just heard a 992 01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:30.319 large rock one of the cabins, and so I went over there to investigate, 993 01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:33.760 and I thought two large charcoal animals through gaps in the vegetation, running 994 01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:39.800 along one one appeared upright, the other the one behind the horizontal. They 995 01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:43.680 were passed. They were large. One cut across the creek, or they 996 01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:46.640 cut off the creek. I could hear them. I could hear their feet 997 01:08:47.039 --> 01:08:50.079 watching in the water. That happened, and said, then I went to 998 01:08:50.199 --> 01:08:55.840 the east and awful tempted to perceive them that I was not. That's why 999 01:08:55.880 --> 01:08:59.560 I got away. But then I went back in the direction where athletics things 1000 01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:02.920 could come, thinking they not double back, because we had some experience where 1001 01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:05.560 it seems to have happened in the path. So all I went east, 1002 01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:15.319 probably one hundred and fifty yards. Meantime, Paul Bowman and Bob's strain or 1003 01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:19.520 looking in the area where I had just come from. Paul Bowman dal of 1004 01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:26.039 brownish upright figure from about eighty yards away walking to the west. His first 1005 01:09:26.319 --> 01:09:29.720 instinct that he was seeing me. But he walked at the five or big 1006 01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:33.880 decades and it had classic arms swing, they had a pointed head, and 1007 01:09:34.039 --> 01:09:40.039 he dark the whole animal dark brown a ship. He described the faith like 1008 01:09:40.119 --> 01:09:43.800 a model color, and it was a uniform color. The chest was darker, 1009 01:09:43.840 --> 01:09:45.000 but the head and the shoulders there was all sort of one sort of 1010 01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:49.640 brownish color that clearly was that didn't match the discretion of anyone who was there. 1011 01:09:51.000 --> 01:09:54.039 At first it was me, but when I came from the eat, 1012 01:09:54.239 --> 01:09:58.520 he knew there what he had seen was not me, and he had difficult 1013 01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:01.239 beginning when he had not had a big dual gang before that. And with 1014 01:10:01.399 --> 01:10:04.840 most people, when they perceive one, it shocked them, no matter how 1015 01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:09.760 much they convinced themselves in the past. But the things you did once you 1016 01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:13.680 have that visual reality really settles in and you have to deal with it for 1017 01:10:13.720 --> 01:10:16.439 a little bit, I think, and Paul would block that what's interesting about 1018 01:10:16.520 --> 01:10:23.359 his experiences is that it illustrates two points, and that if you're interested in 1019 01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:28.159 collecting the specimen that the Nawac feels needs to be collected to establish this animal 1020 01:10:28.359 --> 01:10:31.199 as real so that we can actually begin the work of conservation. If you're 1021 01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:34.680 interested in doing that and you have not yet seen one before, it's a 1022 01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:40.279 very tricky thing because when you see one like he did, it looks like 1023 01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:44.319 a person. Your brain tells you it's a person, so you therefore don't 1024 01:10:44.319 --> 01:10:47.640 want to shoot at it right, especially a different He believed it was probably 1025 01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:50.720 seventy five or delay, and thoughts he knew I was in that area. 1026 01:10:51.119 --> 01:10:53.960 He thought I might being downright, and to say, yea, if you 1027 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:56.960 want to make sure, you definitely want to make sure. Although what he 1028 01:10:57.079 --> 01:10:59.680 saw did not appear to be me, it'd still the first thought. And 1029 01:11:00.279 --> 01:11:03.720 I'm not seeing Darryl. It looks like Daryl, but they're all down there. 1030 01:11:04.359 --> 01:11:08.840 He's that he's really expecting in his mind. I guess you had this 1031 01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:13.720 scenario already laid out in his mind. It would be with Quassic, Patterton, 1032 01:11:13.760 --> 01:11:17.920 Gimlin animal, paddy walking and very clear to see and all that, 1033 01:11:18.079 --> 01:11:23.600 and he didn't have that. He was not that thick bigger than that. 1034 01:11:24.079 --> 01:11:26.640 Because Kathy said the same thing an interview I had with her. So many 1035 01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:29.399 of us have seen that figure so many times. That's what your brain is 1036 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:31.880 expecting. And what we found is that for the most part, at least 1037 01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:35.920 the animals that we're seeing, there's only one that seems to clearly fit that 1038 01:11:36.039 --> 01:11:41.000 description. The rest of them have a different body shape altogether. Yeah. 1039 01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:45.640 Yeah, definitely the one that we recard to as old gray in the large 1040 01:11:45.760 --> 01:11:49.960 way. When that thing looks just like Patty. I'm telling you mc clarkin 1041 01:11:50.079 --> 01:11:55.520 saw I pour several seconds. You had a distance of about twenty yards at 1042 01:11:55.720 --> 01:11:58.840 night. I don't know if the listeners have heard about Dins in Canada, 1043 01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:04.479 but August, remember August McClerkin went in there. He and Alex Gids arrived 1044 01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:10.279 at about midnight. They had just been there for a few short minutes. 1045 01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:13.000 I think you'd only been there five or Kennedy. They were sad in the 1046 01:12:13.039 --> 01:12:17.039 truck all he had taken a loading into the cabin. Martin was standing outside 1047 01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:20.359 by his truck. He heard some rock kick behind him him. There was 1048 01:12:20.439 --> 01:12:26.159 just big gray one about twenty yards away, just standing looking at him. 1049 01:12:26.520 --> 01:12:29.319 And he stood there and just looked at it, and't it good? There 1050 01:12:29.479 --> 01:12:31.720 after a utro fives fixed seconds, I ran and wafted off from the bark, 1051 01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:34.960 not in a hurry. It seemed like you he threatened. It did 1052 01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:40.920 not threaten him. Was not at all scared or intimidated of him. Very 1053 01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:44.479 confident here. The scripture was more de killed than mine, and I had 1054 01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:46.520 already digged. I didn't look very much like Paddy. He got a much 1055 01:12:46.600 --> 01:12:49.159 better look at it, and I did. He did, absolute me spit 1056 01:12:49.199 --> 01:12:51.840 an image of Patty, but it's gray from top to bottom. And he 1057 01:12:51.880 --> 01:12:54.880 said, there was thick all the way down, just the way she is. 1058 01:12:55.159 --> 01:12:58.000 She was every bit of eight feet tall. And what's interesting to me 1059 01:12:58.039 --> 01:13:00.119 about that, And we touched on this when the conversation I had without is 1060 01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:03.960 that some of the animals are very reluctant to be seen and seem to be 1061 01:13:04.159 --> 01:13:08.520 expending an awful lot of energy to move quickly so that they aren't. But 1062 01:13:08.800 --> 01:13:13.760 ones like this one almost purposely not expending a lot of energy. They like, 1063 01:13:13.880 --> 01:13:16.119 yeah, I know you saw me, so what and they just walk 1064 01:13:16.199 --> 01:13:19.239 off. But they're not running off. This one has I don't know that 1065 01:13:19.279 --> 01:13:24.159 we've ever seen this one moving very quickly. It seems to have this attitude 1066 01:13:24.199 --> 01:13:27.000 of I'm not going to make a big show of leaving right now. I'm 1067 01:13:27.039 --> 01:13:29.800 just going to basically do it in my own sweet time. It's interesting to 1068 01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:34.159 see the different personalities almost of the way these animals act around us. Some 1069 01:13:34.319 --> 01:13:40.560 of the chad scary that this one way repurach to is maybe atriarch or matriarch, 1070 01:13:40.760 --> 01:13:44.760 and it doesn't bow to anything, It doesn't happen. Well, we're 1071 01:13:44.800 --> 01:13:47.319 not all great. It was not moving quickly. It just stepped up on 1072 01:13:47.479 --> 01:13:50.319 the big rock and stepped up on the bank very casually and was long. 1073 01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:55.159 What's interesting and this is and I'm clearly not a primatologist. I went to 1074 01:13:55.199 --> 01:13:58.800 the zoo the other day, so I didn't even stay the holiday inn, 1075 01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:00.399 so I'm not that big of an expert. But we were at the Como 1076 01:14:00.520 --> 01:14:03.680 Zoo here in Minneapolis or over in Saint Paul. Actually, they have a 1077 01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:06.600 new primate. They've redone their primate exhibit, and they have an exhibit with 1078 01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:11.159 some orangutangs in it. And what I found interesting is there's four orangutangs in 1079 01:14:11.239 --> 01:14:14.520 there. Three of them came outside, Two of them were playing, one 1080 01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:16.279 of them were just hanging out. And then the big one came out. 1081 01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:20.439 When it was a female, and she moved very slowly, very purposefully. 1082 01:14:20.840 --> 01:14:24.760 The other ones got out of her way. She didn't look threatening, but 1083 01:14:24.840 --> 01:14:28.439 she was really big. What struck me at the time was that she's acting 1084 01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:31.560 the way that I think about Old Gray, about the way that one doesn't 1085 01:14:31.600 --> 01:14:34.960 move in a big rush. It seems like it just waits for the world 1086 01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:39.199 to get around it. And we don't know, but based on our observations, 1087 01:14:39.319 --> 01:14:41.640 I think it is a safe assumption that one seems to be pretty near 1088 01:14:41.680 --> 01:14:45.159 the top of the pecking order. Yeah. Absolutely. This year there's shaped 1089 01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:47.680 to be a little bit of a different dynamic, and that is they're being 1090 01:14:47.920 --> 01:14:53.640 very stingy their appearance. Yes, sir, we had one clear when we've 1091 01:14:53.680 --> 01:14:59.079 had a few others that were possible or even probable. You're in banner, 1092 01:14:59.159 --> 01:15:02.840 I think was more unlikely one of these apes. You had heard banging on 1093 01:15:03.359 --> 01:15:06.560 one of the cabins, You got in your truck, drove out, and 1094 01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:13.399 you stand the area, and then you saw a neck flight brown figure twite 1095 01:15:13.520 --> 01:15:17.279 just tall as the fence up away or move away after the cabin had just 1096 01:15:17.439 --> 01:15:21.239 been rocked. Rock and get the throne of that cabin. You have to 1097 01:15:21.399 --> 01:15:28.079 you see that upright brown animal near at the cabin and it FETs away as 1098 01:15:28.119 --> 01:15:30.039 you pull up. You didn't get to look at it again. Circumstance to 1099 01:15:30.119 --> 01:15:33.000 me, I don't know what else could have been there. One of the 1100 01:15:33.119 --> 01:15:43.119 people saw my brown helots animal jump from the top tree to another tree. 1101 01:15:43.600 --> 01:15:48.000 Now, my own theory is may have been a young one. There's okay, 1102 01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:51.359 all the animal would be uniformly brown. And the thing is that two 1103 01:15:51.399 --> 01:15:56.079 thousand and four, I thought I saw something Denmark, but I don't think 1104 01:15:56.159 --> 01:16:00.159 I got as good of you as what this person clearly saw the animal. 1105 01:16:00.279 --> 01:16:03.600 And we actually have one of the sort of quote unquote historical sightings, one 1106 01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:06.880 of the older sightings from the area from one of the family members who's been 1107 01:16:06.960 --> 01:16:13.079 going in there was of an ape like animal up in a tree yet and 1108 01:16:13.319 --> 01:16:17.159 one of our investigator class year caught one up in the tree correct the arm 1109 01:16:17.239 --> 01:16:21.079 wrapped around the legs, the knee sticking out. It was up the tree 1110 01:16:21.119 --> 01:16:26.079 about twenty feet. I know that the incredible for people to believe. Art 1111 01:16:26.199 --> 01:16:29.439 Caey you we're just telling you everything that's happening there, and hopefully we'll be 1112 01:16:29.479 --> 01:16:32.279 able to get that definitive evidence. One of our investigators callow it up in 1113 01:16:32.319 --> 01:16:35.800 the tree. He saw it throw a lock at him from up in the 1114 01:16:35.880 --> 01:16:41.279 tree, saw the arm swing. And we have reason to believe that they 1115 01:16:41.359 --> 01:16:46.680 do take to the trees, either to look to watch us or to go 1116 01:16:46.760 --> 01:16:50.079 out there and throw rocks at us. But since then, and what's interesting 1117 01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:54.880 about that is that week there was another person in there who wasn't a member 1118 01:16:54.880 --> 01:16:58.640 of the group, but who had a lot of experience around monkeys, specifically 1119 01:16:58.720 --> 01:17:03.079 monkeys and actually raise the monkeys. When our guy said, how are they 1120 01:17:03.079 --> 01:17:05.960 getting the rocks up there, he immediately said, oh, they're putting them 1121 01:17:06.000 --> 01:17:09.920 in their mouth. For him, it was clear that they would put stuff 1122 01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:12.920 in their mouth as a way to hold on to it as they were doing 1123 01:17:12.960 --> 01:17:15.840 that sort of thing. So who knows if that's what really happens, but 1124 01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:19.520 they remember. We had what we called the rain of Rock that ye before 1125 01:17:19.560 --> 01:17:25.279 that it was riding the thin town frame and we wondered how in the world, 1126 01:17:25.840 --> 01:17:29.399 Oh, so many rocks one light after the other. We ship a 1127 01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:32.279 constant barrage of rocks. It's incredible to let's see to it on the recording. 1128 01:17:32.800 --> 01:17:36.520 But I want the linteners to know that it's incredible to be there. 1129 01:17:36.600 --> 01:17:40.640 You were there. I was there for three mornings in a rollo act. 1130 01:17:41.279 --> 01:17:43.880 People the water don't should go after them, We're trying. You go out 1131 01:17:43.960 --> 01:17:45.560 fire and then you go around to the back and you hear all these big 1132 01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:49.560 animals move it off in the woods and you can't go aft. It's frustrating. 1133 01:17:49.640 --> 01:17:51.960 So then the next morning you just why they're in the bed, because 1134 01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:55.640 when you get up out of the bed, you run outside. I don't 1135 01:17:55.680 --> 01:18:00.840 care truck. I busted out that door more times and acts count. You 1136 01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:04.600 run outside and you can hear stuff moving off, and then you'll hear it 1137 01:18:04.720 --> 01:18:09.560 the tout. You'll hear one of them bust the cabin that's seven yards a 1138 01:18:09.600 --> 01:18:12.159 way that you can't get to. It's very frustrating. It's so difficult for 1139 01:18:12.199 --> 01:18:16.000 people to understand how thick these woods are and they come right up to the 1140 01:18:16.079 --> 01:18:18.880 structure that we stay in. Yeah, it is an excuse, it's also 1141 01:18:19.000 --> 01:18:23.239 true. Right, So if you're an agile forest animal and you know how 1142 01:18:23.279 --> 01:18:26.239 to move, we can't sneak out of that cabin because it makes all kinds 1143 01:18:26.239 --> 01:18:28.920 of sounds. It's creaking, it's old, it's wooden. There's no way 1144 01:18:28.960 --> 01:18:30.960 for us like tiptoe out of that thing without them knowing if they're paying attention. 1145 01:18:31.359 --> 01:18:33.600 And I think that's what I've experienced, and I've been in this situation 1146 01:18:33.720 --> 01:18:40.840 where activity is occurring. You want to keep experiencing it. So there's a 1147 01:18:40.920 --> 01:18:43.079 part of you that says, if I try to get up and run out 1148 01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:45.960 there, there's a half a percent chance and I'm going to see something, 1149 01:18:45.079 --> 01:18:49.399 but if I lay here, stuff will keep happening, So you choose to 1150 01:18:49.479 --> 01:18:54.119 lay there. Yeah, that's the only way that we ever actually see them. 1151 01:18:54.199 --> 01:18:58.000 It's when they make them and fake, when we'ren't able to capitalize on 1152 01:18:58.720 --> 01:19:02.720 their ability to try multiple people at the same time, or when they don't 1153 01:19:02.800 --> 01:19:06.640 know we're there, which is not very often, and they walk out infernally. 1154 01:19:06.920 --> 01:19:11.840 That's the only well doing all kinds of stuff around the cabin you try 1155 01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:14.960 to check back on just the run off fuck a game. I don't know, 1156 01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:17.920 it's crazy, but we'ren't lucky if we see them correct, and if 1157 01:19:17.960 --> 01:19:20.359 that's what it is, a big piece of this is luck. I remember 1158 01:19:20.439 --> 01:19:24.680 it's interesting you say that about if they make a mistake because I remember talking 1159 01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:27.439 to Rick Knowle several years ago. In fact, one of the first podcasts 1160 01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:30.880 I did was with Rick Nole, and he said to me either on that 1161 01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:34.600 podcaster at that time, that people see them when the apes make mistakes, 1162 01:19:34.680 --> 01:19:38.520 that's when you see them. And when I was talking to Alton earlier in 1163 01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:42.920 this episode, I know, unless the gray one is okay with being seen, 1164 01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:45.800 I don't know that they've ever purposely shown themselves. I can't think of 1165 01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:47.800 a time where that would have happened. So I agree with you. I 1166 01:19:47.840 --> 01:19:54.800 think that that when you see one, it's because they've someone miscalculated, involving 1167 01:19:54.880 --> 01:19:58.279 Martin m That's the one I was thinking too, right, I wondered about 1168 01:19:58.359 --> 01:20:00.439 that. I'm thinking about that a couple. I wonder if it was trying 1169 01:20:00.439 --> 01:20:05.039 to intimidate, and just by its sheer presence, maybe Dickon is so confident, 1170 01:20:05.439 --> 01:20:11.079 it's so bold that it's stepped out there and here I am. And 1171 01:20:11.199 --> 01:20:15.520 of course all we have is what we observe. When we spend so much 1172 01:20:15.600 --> 01:20:18.439 time, we try to connect these dots. But really the purpose of us 1173 01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:23.600 being out there right now, besides trying to collect a specimen if we can, 1174 01:20:24.279 --> 01:20:27.600 is to just make these observations. Kathy made the point earlier in the 1175 01:20:27.640 --> 01:20:30.000 episode two about how you just have to observe these things, write things down, 1176 01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:32.920 and in time you can start to draw connections. And that's what we 1177 01:20:33.000 --> 01:20:35.079 try to do, because we're humans, and we try to do that. 1178 01:20:35.159 --> 01:20:38.880 But it's very difficult, even at this stage, even after being in there 1179 01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:41.800 for three years and having all the experiences we've had, it's difficult to really 1180 01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:45.319 know what the motivations are of these animals and what's making them do the things 1181 01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:49.039 they do. Oh yeah, absolutely. Now, all we have for observations 1182 01:20:49.159 --> 01:20:54.000 we do have shoot physical evidence. We have collected physical evidence while we've been 1183 01:20:54.039 --> 01:20:57.039 in there for these observations. I've been more tract in there now than I 1184 01:20:57.119 --> 01:21:00.319 can camp. I've seen more than a cat. Even when I could take 1185 01:21:00.359 --> 01:21:04.960 a three or four or five instages were out seeing the track and never have 1186 01:21:05.079 --> 01:21:09.520 been more than that. The very first thing that brought a endeded area were 1187 01:21:09.640 --> 01:21:13.720 tracks at Alpin Higgins. Yeah, and that was over a decade ago. 1188 01:21:13.880 --> 01:21:17.399 These apes or whatever even and yet I referred them to age because that's what 1189 01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:23.920 I definitely believe they're age based on our experience and the behavioral that's played that 1190 01:21:24.039 --> 01:21:27.760 they did. That these apes have been there for them at least a decade 1191 01:21:27.880 --> 01:21:31.079 at least where were reason the resident there they found and determined to study and 1192 01:21:31.840 --> 01:21:35.199 upfront and there over the last few years. The things we've done and not 1193 01:21:35.399 --> 01:21:40.920 that played them are still there. As Golf Team indicates by the way, 1194 01:21:41.159 --> 01:21:45.800 I don't think I'm dead. We're talking them over one hundred and sixty block 1195 01:21:45.880 --> 01:21:50.119 throws during Golf Team it's amazing. The next four interist team with the team 1196 01:21:50.159 --> 01:21:55.840 from last year that had over sixty rock throws, incredible, didn't have any 1197 01:21:55.960 --> 01:21:58.520 visuals and we have some of the rocks that to your point earlier, we 1198 01:21:58.840 --> 01:22:01.239 sweep the roofs and Rick Hayes, I remember he posted a picture for us 1199 01:22:01.279 --> 01:22:04.159 to look at of many of the rocks that he had pulled off this roof. 1200 01:22:05.000 --> 01:22:10.399 Yeah. And what's interesting also about the rock Joees for Golf team is 1201 01:22:10.520 --> 01:22:17.199 that there seems to have been more infinances of our people being targeted. Yeah. 1202 01:22:17.560 --> 01:22:24.520 Or Canty Stray personally had at least a couple of rocks wins by her 1203 01:22:24.640 --> 01:22:30.640 body and I'm talking with an inchest wound to byre Jerry Estin. He had 1204 01:22:30.680 --> 01:22:36.199 to retreat because he actually went around you. He tried to get away to 1205 01:22:36.279 --> 01:22:40.960 the stopped for on rocks head because every time he moved another rock would be 1206 01:22:41.000 --> 01:22:43.800 thrown. It would bash the wall right beside him, mentioning by two feet. 1207 01:22:44.079 --> 01:22:45.079 He has to think about that for a second. That is a bit 1208 01:22:45.119 --> 01:22:49.319 of an escalation. I haven't ever felt like I was specifically a target, 1209 01:22:49.359 --> 01:22:51.439 and I don't know that a lot of us have felt that way, But 1210 01:22:51.560 --> 01:22:57.399 this is a change. Paul had that experience in the creek that landed very 1211 01:22:57.399 --> 01:23:00.199 close to him. Yeah, and when out one time one fear of rock 1212 01:23:00.239 --> 01:23:03.039 and nitting by a couple of feet in the big rock. But for Stewet 1213 01:23:03.079 --> 01:23:06.920 probably playing the thiever all the plame night, Jerry Henstein had a rock thrown 1214 01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:11.800 and his confident was going to him and hit the shed and speared him because 1215 01:23:11.800 --> 01:23:15.439 of the king out of nowhere. And then he walked over behind the cabin 1216 01:23:15.760 --> 01:23:17.399 and then here comes a rock out of it out of the woods in front 1217 01:23:17.399 --> 01:23:20.479 of him to gin it fashion the wall right the side of it. And 1218 01:23:20.479 --> 01:23:25.800 then he decides to fall out and he moved back, throwing on the other 1219 01:23:25.880 --> 01:23:29.920 side of the cabin. But then Chaffy becomes the target and she had tree 1220 01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:32.840 rocks with by her. Now these things are hitting. We can't see them 1221 01:23:32.960 --> 01:23:36.680 throw the lock said, so take that into account. They remain hidden. 1222 01:23:38.239 --> 01:23:42.479 They're throwing rock and they're almost hitting our people. I played baseball in life. 1223 01:23:42.560 --> 01:23:45.800 I don't know that I can do that at night in the bar from 1224 01:23:46.520 --> 01:23:54.359 twenty five to thirty to forty yards away, concealed and stay can killed without 1225 01:23:54.720 --> 01:23:58.039 people are throwing affee you and I have both done it. You get up 1226 01:23:58.039 --> 01:24:00.439 there where we believe they are, and you try to throw the down and 1227 01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:01.880 you try to hit where they hit, and most of the time you're hitting 1228 01:24:01.880 --> 01:24:05.039 trees. Most of the time they're deflecting. They got to be fair to 1229 01:24:05.039 --> 01:24:08.800 close. Why because if they're not, then the walks that they go, 1230 01:24:08.920 --> 01:24:11.399 we're gonna get leaves, you're gonna get branches, you're gonna get trees. 1231 01:24:12.000 --> 01:24:15.560 And each each rocks are coming through and they're they're bashing the wall. They 1232 01:24:15.640 --> 01:24:19.920 didn't they're wish they're landing at the feet of our people. Leave the bother 1233 01:24:20.079 --> 01:24:26.840 headed. During Foxtrot, a rock land right next to the firing that may 1234 01:24:26.920 --> 01:24:29.600 have been aimed at us. It was very close when it landed, and 1235 01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:30.840 it looked right over and pointed. I said, there's the rock that just 1236 01:24:30.920 --> 01:24:33.760 landed here. It's ten fifteen feet away from us. One of the interesting 1237 01:24:33.800 --> 01:24:36.560 things that happened to me, to all of us really on Foxtrot was the 1238 01:24:36.600 --> 01:24:41.680 tree thing. Now that happened again, can you speak to what happened the 1239 01:24:41.760 --> 01:24:45.159 week the team after Foxtrot they had another tree incident that was very similar to 1240 01:24:45.239 --> 01:24:48.439 ours. Yeah, we talked about that. Ryan, You and I had 1241 01:24:48.439 --> 01:24:53.319 a conversation about that because I wanted to pick your brain about it. Let 1242 01:24:53.359 --> 01:24:55.399 me take a step back out. But the listeners have heard so far was 1243 01:24:55.439 --> 01:24:58.000 an interview in a conversation we had about it. But what they have not 1244 01:24:58.119 --> 01:25:00.399 heard is that I did go up to find that tree. I did find 1245 01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:03.880 the tree. It was due north of where I had been standing, just 1246 01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:06.079 as it had sounded, but it was much higher up the slope. And 1247 01:25:06.159 --> 01:25:11.199 what I found was a tree that probably had been that one point fifty feet 1248 01:25:11.319 --> 01:25:15.800 tall in that neighborhood, and the trunk in this thing was probably fifteen inches 1249 01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:17.439 across, and it was a big tree. About halfway up. The tree 1250 01:25:17.479 --> 01:25:20.720 had been broken off, and the top half of this tree had died for 1251 01:25:20.840 --> 01:25:25.640 whatever reason. The bottom half was still alive. There were still some green 1252 01:25:25.680 --> 01:25:28.640 branches on it, but the top of it was dry and dead. It 1253 01:25:28.760 --> 01:25:31.800 fell away from the slope, and so it left me puzzled because it was 1254 01:25:31.920 --> 01:25:36.560 surrounded by ape activity. We had seen eyes. One of our team members 1255 01:25:36.600 --> 01:25:40.560 had seen eyes a head higher than the top of my truck. And then 1256 01:25:40.680 --> 01:25:44.880 afterward we'd had the rock land very close to us. We saw red eyeshine 1257 01:25:45.159 --> 01:25:47.359 up on the slope, so it was surrounded by what we perceived to be 1258 01:25:47.439 --> 01:25:51.159 ape activity. In my mind, it was an incredible coincidence that this dead 1259 01:25:51.199 --> 01:25:54.640 tree fell in the middle of all of this. We how did it push 1260 01:25:54.640 --> 01:25:57.920 a tree over halfway up twenty five feet up in the air the top of 1261 01:25:58.000 --> 01:26:00.560 it falled down. So I was left perplexed about that. What is interesting, 1262 01:26:01.119 --> 01:26:04.800 particularly in light of what we discussed five or ten minutes ago about our 1263 01:26:04.880 --> 01:26:09.439 cognitives, now that they take to the tree, that we've actually seen them 1264 01:26:09.479 --> 01:26:12.479 in the tree. So imagine, for a checking, a five hundred pound 1265 01:26:12.520 --> 01:26:15.720 animal that climbed a fifteen inch thick tree. It gets a certain point up 1266 01:26:15.760 --> 01:26:19.239 in the tree, at some point the tree just gets his way, it 1267 01:26:19.359 --> 01:26:24.760 breaks because of its weight. At the possibility, it is possibility, is 1268 01:26:24.840 --> 01:26:28.880 that it went up the tree and broke the tree on purpose at part of 1269 01:26:28.920 --> 01:26:30.920 an intimidation display. What I did is I want back, and I did 1270 01:26:30.960 --> 01:26:36.359 an analysis of after action reports for Operation Endurance, Operation per System, and 1271 01:26:36.520 --> 01:26:41.880 operational relytus up to your team Box Drive Team. What I found is that 1272 01:26:42.079 --> 01:26:49.159 we actually documented Team three crashing all around the cabin. Over the last twenty 1273 01:26:49.199 --> 01:26:53.560 eleven we've been going in there during the time that we did in the long 1274 01:26:53.640 --> 01:26:59.479 term program and leave eventsure all surrounded by under activity, rock throwing, vocalizations, 1275 01:27:00.000 --> 01:27:03.479 a lot of different things that we attribute to would a behavior trees, 1276 01:27:03.520 --> 01:27:05.920 you fall in the wood, absolutely, we'll see that all the time. 1277 01:27:06.560 --> 01:27:15.359 But also we know that apes manipulate vegetation or given clippet, team ape like 1278 01:27:15.560 --> 01:27:19.359 exhibit inclination displays. And I think there's a good bottom of what's you experience 1279 01:27:19.960 --> 01:27:27.279 with the form of bad and it didn't scare you right given Yeah, and 1280 01:27:27.399 --> 01:27:30.159 I had a similar experience in two thousand and six. I was in the 1281 01:27:30.199 --> 01:27:32.479 davy Crock in that before ship. My wife if at about one in the 1282 01:27:32.560 --> 01:27:39.119 morning, call blashing very loud love with veget In ten seconds, we heard 1283 01:27:39.159 --> 01:27:42.960 the crashing of a tree. We heard the tree footing, and then we 1284 01:27:43.039 --> 01:27:45.239 heard the tree crashed to the ground and it sounded like it was right on 1285 01:27:45.319 --> 01:27:49.119 top. So we never found that tree. But after that we heard banging 1286 01:27:49.159 --> 01:27:53.840 on metal. We don't know how they found metal in the davy Crocket National 1287 01:27:53.920 --> 01:27:58.840 Park, but they were banging on metal. There were ocalizations would knocked at 1288 01:27:58.880 --> 01:28:02.479 the time ill, but in hindsight now in that look back, now I'm 1289 01:28:02.560 --> 01:28:06.520 positive that's what it was. You all had been playing Sten, you'd been 1290 01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:10.520 doing well, Yeah, we've been called blasting this air sounds and one of 1291 01:28:10.560 --> 01:28:14.760 the snippets that are on that CD. And I'd been making some weird vocalizations 1292 01:28:14.800 --> 01:28:16.920 myself and trying to imitate and call in some bard owls because it's fun when 1293 01:28:16.920 --> 01:28:19.479 the bar dowls come in and start making their hooting and holler. And who 1294 01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:23.800 knows how they were interpreting that, if that's what they were doing. Golf 1295 01:28:23.880 --> 01:28:26.640 team, the one right after us was a golf right, they had a 1296 01:28:26.680 --> 01:28:29.640 similar thing where a tree broke, but it was half the tree. Again, 1297 01:28:29.680 --> 01:28:31.079 it wasn't the whole tree. And in this case their tree was healthy. 1298 01:28:31.760 --> 01:28:34.960 They actually thought it. They saw the top of the tree fall. 1299 01:28:35.000 --> 01:28:38.920 They could see the top over the trees a furmed. They could see the 1300 01:28:38.960 --> 01:28:42.279 top of this tree fall. I could see a break and then fall. 1301 01:28:42.359 --> 01:28:45.399 And they went to inspect it and found they was not rotted doing oaks. 1302 01:28:45.399 --> 01:28:50.079 Times that they could discern of black bear claw mark, nothing up in the 1303 01:28:50.199 --> 01:28:54.640 tree on honey or anything like the black bear with a pig ore. And 1304 01:28:54.800 --> 01:28:58.199 again this was right there near the cabin. But this was definitely with a 1305 01:28:58.239 --> 01:29:00.079 kareen tree that there was a nothing wall. With ditch tree, it was 1306 01:29:00.079 --> 01:29:02.760 a red oak. I think yours was a hatory tree. So yeah, 1307 01:29:02.920 --> 01:29:05.239 us with the hate crey and its own was a red oak. And I 1308 01:29:05.319 --> 01:29:09.640 think jures had two signs of degradation of the tree. And yeah, they 1309 01:29:09.640 --> 01:29:12.039 looked like termites have been in there. I mean it was old and dead 1310 01:29:12.079 --> 01:29:15.840 on toime. Uh yeah, so you know this is what you played in 1311 01:29:15.880 --> 01:29:17.000 your head, this back and forth, the ping pong of is it or 1312 01:29:17.039 --> 01:29:19.800 isn't it? And at the time it happened, I thought it was and 1313 01:29:19.880 --> 01:29:23.399 then I found and maybe it's not. But then you think about it, 1314 01:29:23.520 --> 01:29:26.399 and then this happens a week later, and it's the same mo Right, 1315 01:29:26.479 --> 01:29:29.039 it's a tree getting broken off towards the top, but in this case the 1316 01:29:29.079 --> 01:29:33.760 tree is totally healthy. So that's on. The speeches remained undocumented because everything 1317 01:29:33.800 --> 01:29:38.199 they do, even the way they look, can be attributed to something else. 1318 01:29:38.680 --> 01:29:41.039 Their footprints, Right, some guy's walking in the woods and you see 1319 01:29:41.039 --> 01:29:45.319 if she's barefoot footprints out in the woods middle of nowhere. They strangely, 1320 01:29:45.399 --> 01:29:46.680 what kind of freak would the out here walking around back? I don't know, 1321 01:29:47.600 --> 01:29:51.279 you've got a hunter in a hunting stant. She gets up, bite, 1322 01:29:51.279 --> 01:29:56.279 figured walk and coughs the cutaway one hundred yards away. He thinks it's 1323 01:29:56.279 --> 01:29:59.239 a hunter. What the heck is the hunter doing? Who weren't a big 1324 01:29:59.319 --> 01:30:03.680 long black col in early November or whatever? Fucking thinks it's achieven. They 1325 01:30:03.760 --> 01:30:08.079 fell a log. They make these weird sounds, but all of it can 1326 01:30:08.119 --> 01:30:13.159 be attributed to something else. We've got getting away with murder right here under 1327 01:30:13.159 --> 01:30:16.199 the very knowledges of using by it. And they're just masters at using the 1328 01:30:16.319 --> 01:30:21.319 environment of their advantage. It's just incredible how cognitive they are of the environment 1329 01:30:21.399 --> 01:30:26.720 and how to use it to their advantage. Your master's of camouflage and using 1330 01:30:27.319 --> 01:30:32.319 their environment to camouflage their movement to camouflage where they are. Stay tuned for 1331 01:30:32.439 --> 01:30:40.079 more sasquatch out to sea. We'll be right back after these messages to your 1332 01:30:40.119 --> 01:30:45.199 earlier point about how people may experience something and then they discounter or they expland 1333 01:30:45.239 --> 01:30:46.960 it off to something else. I talked to Bob Strain and this is after 1334 01:30:47.119 --> 01:30:50.800 Paul's exciting This is a week later. Our speculation was that if Paul had 1335 01:30:50.840 --> 01:30:55.399 been out in the woods by himself hunting, had not been looking for bigfoot. 1336 01:30:55.720 --> 01:30:58.560 He may have had that experience and done what you just said, what's 1337 01:30:58.600 --> 01:31:00.680 that guy doing on here? Like why is he wearing a brown coat or 1338 01:31:00.720 --> 01:31:02.399 whatever it was. He would have written it off in his head and he 1339 01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:04.479 would just would have kept doing He would have just kept doing his thing. 1340 01:31:04.720 --> 01:31:09.640 And the other funny thing is Alton has told the story of being out in 1341 01:31:09.720 --> 01:31:13.119 an area close to X, not right in X, but not too very 1342 01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:17.880 far away with some people for entirely different reason, for about ancillary biological kind 1343 01:31:17.920 --> 01:31:24.439 of survey of animals, and they heard a very loud tree knock, very 1344 01:31:24.600 --> 01:31:29.159 clear de super loud wood on wood sound, and some people in the group 1345 01:31:29.319 --> 01:31:32.439 just completely ignored it as if it didn't happen. And another guy said, 1346 01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:36.479 he looks up and says fireworks and then keeps going to it just goes to 1347 01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:41.399 the point that people My analogy is that there's little slots in your brain that 1348 01:31:41.479 --> 01:31:44.119 are certain shapes, and you get these pegs, and your brain just keeps 1349 01:31:44.159 --> 01:31:45.760 putting them through these holes, and sometimes it gets a peg that doesn't fit, 1350 01:31:45.880 --> 01:31:48.720 so it just shoves it through a hole and keeps going. And that's 1351 01:31:48.760 --> 01:31:51.560 what happened there. I think. I don't know cal they're able to. 1352 01:31:51.840 --> 01:31:56.880 I don't have an exclamation for how they can avoid field cameras. I just 1353 01:31:57.039 --> 01:32:01.359 know what I've experienced. And we had dugons of cameras. We want cameras 1354 01:32:01.600 --> 01:32:06.840 here where we are now in area acts out for five years, we didn't 1355 01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:10.920 get a single pictures. How they are lord those cameras. I have no 1356 01:32:11.079 --> 01:32:15.279 explanation, I have you no idea. I just know that there's something going 1357 01:32:15.359 --> 01:32:21.119 on with Gilm and cameras. Either they either because the cameras are so stead 1358 01:32:21.239 --> 01:32:26.399 with humans, which doesn't really make sense, because they approach other things that 1359 01:32:26.439 --> 01:32:30.920 are associated with human Their rods and cones in their eyes developed to such an 1360 01:32:30.960 --> 01:32:34.640 extent that they can actually detect the infra rent from the cameras. I don't 1361 01:32:34.840 --> 01:32:38.960 know. I just know that we don't have a picture, nor does anybody 1362 01:32:39.039 --> 01:32:43.319 else with a game camera, and we don't even use them anymore. We 1363 01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:45.079 don't even use them. And when I hear somebody saying I'm gonna take the 1364 01:32:45.199 --> 01:32:47.840 fruit and I'm gonna go put it up with a legend, I'm gonna put 1365 01:32:47.880 --> 01:32:54.479 a reconic cameras. Oh wait, we did one and fifty times it doesn't 1366 01:32:54.560 --> 01:32:59.119 hurt. Yeah, you're just taking minute and you're spinning coward frustrating. If 1367 01:32:59.159 --> 01:33:00.600 it don't work, I don't know why, but they just don't work. 1368 01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:05.760 And these things are their massive and there are eight. There are a very 1369 01:33:06.000 --> 01:33:11.199 unique type of epe. But they are apes. There's nothing that we've seen 1370 01:33:11.800 --> 01:33:16.920 that indicates in on your spears. They don't wear clothes. They make them 1371 01:33:20.000 --> 01:33:24.399 though. Rabbit bull want through lock and back to the cabin. For the 1372 01:33:24.920 --> 01:33:30.960 one hundred times I hear football, then I hear the cabin and that's eight. 1373 01:33:31.079 --> 01:33:35.119 It's pure eight. Then once they're doing they throw rockets. So the 1374 01:33:35.199 --> 01:33:41.479 playbook from chimps right, And to my experience, people who want to ascribe 1375 01:33:41.680 --> 01:33:45.199 something beyond the animal intelligence to them haven't really done the research to know what 1376 01:33:45.319 --> 01:33:49.039 even apes are capable of doing. Because gorillas and ranguetangs and chimps are are 1377 01:33:49.159 --> 01:33:54.119 capable of doing some really incredible things, but none of the things that we've 1378 01:33:54.199 --> 01:33:59.479 experienced are outside the scope of capability foreign a ranguetang and champer gorilla. Yeah, 1379 01:33:59.680 --> 01:34:02.520 no one had discovered orangutans yet. It's just for the cycle. Barget 1380 01:34:02.560 --> 01:34:06.279 stay with me here for a second, nobody discovered orangutan. It is an 1381 01:34:06.359 --> 01:34:15.800 undiscovered that people are reporting the seeding and get this, they're reporting that the 1382 01:34:15.960 --> 01:34:19.399 rangutans are stealing their boats. They're reporting that they're stealing their boats, and 1383 01:34:19.520 --> 01:34:25.319 not only stealing their boats, but they're stealing their fish from the cages and 1384 01:34:25.359 --> 01:34:27.640 they're eating the fish. And then they get in the boat, they go 1385 01:34:27.720 --> 01:34:30.159 across the river and they get out on the other side. Now people will 1386 01:34:30.239 --> 01:34:33.600 be saying, and you're not, that's crazy that it's ends than that. 1387 01:34:33.800 --> 01:34:36.479 It's not an ape, it's a forest person. It's got to be a 1388 01:34:36.520 --> 01:34:40.520 person. It's got to be a human doing that, because that's true. 1389 01:34:40.600 --> 01:34:44.560 Smart, But I'm news for you people. Orangutans have been documented, they 1390 01:34:44.640 --> 01:34:48.720 happened documents. And Orangutans have been known to pick locks. Yeah, it's 1391 01:34:48.760 --> 01:34:53.640 my favorite story. Be deceptive about it. They hide it in their mouth. 1392 01:34:53.680 --> 01:34:56.479 They're not just like storing it in there. They're trying to keep their 1393 01:34:56.560 --> 01:35:00.239 zoo keepers from knowing that it's there. Yeah, and chips are known to 1394 01:35:00.680 --> 01:35:05.279 collect rock and then hot the stack of rocks, all of them. You 1395 01:35:05.560 --> 01:35:10.119 just project. I get the humans who are laughing at the chimps. Water 1396 01:35:10.199 --> 01:35:13.640 in the moon, going to chumps the rocks, and they throw the proof 1397 01:35:13.680 --> 01:35:15.800 and they throw the locks, and they got to fix that. You help 1398 01:35:15.119 --> 01:35:18.840 continue to throw lot. We're seeing all of them. That strikes me. 1399 01:35:18.920 --> 01:35:23.520 The more I'm there, and the more that I read the field journals of 1400 01:35:23.600 --> 01:35:28.800 our people who are in there, the more I learn about large primate behavior, 1401 01:35:29.199 --> 01:35:30.880 the more parallels I see. And this also goes back. I'm not 1402 01:35:30.920 --> 01:35:32.800 trying. I don't know why I'm talking about Rick Noel on Night Long, 1403 01:35:32.840 --> 01:35:35.960 but but Rick Nola said the same thing if you he said that at one 1404 01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:40.880 point to me, if you want to know about bigfoot, learn about gorillas. 1405 01:35:41.439 --> 01:35:44.199 Absolutely, people, because there are some people who don't want to hear 1406 01:35:44.199 --> 01:35:46.000 that. Well again, I'm going to go here to golf after action. 1407 01:35:46.159 --> 01:35:49.079 But who's going to read you a couple of things here where they hurt some 1408 01:35:49.199 --> 01:35:55.880 bocalizations sit here I can find there. Here's the part about what I found 1409 01:35:55.920 --> 01:35:57.880 the tree that we were talking about. I just read this real quickly. 1410 01:35:58.359 --> 01:36:02.000 Larrnton hay Height find a healthy tree that the team have deserved breaking. At 1411 01:36:02.039 --> 01:36:05.640 midday on Tuesday, eleventh June, Lawrence and Hayes found the tree on the 1412 01:36:05.720 --> 01:36:10.680 second Mountain, wood identified it as they read the tree with indeed healthy and 1413 01:36:10.920 --> 01:36:14.520 green. There appeared to be no readily apparent reason for the break. The 1414 01:36:14.600 --> 01:36:17.119 team wondered if a large animoid climbed the tree and it being gave under the 1415 01:36:17.159 --> 01:36:21.479 animal's weight. While at the tree, the men heard a vocalization from the 1416 01:36:21.560 --> 01:36:27.880 northeast. They described it sound a similar to how a human might found just 1417 01:36:28.000 --> 01:36:30.720 as he or she were sneezing. Species would have evolved differently, would have 1418 01:36:30.760 --> 01:36:36.840 been evolved with a down sort of unique characteristics. Oh marking he purchased before 1419 01:36:36.920 --> 01:36:42.279 up all the two charcoal animal and before the rock bashed that cabin. We 1420 01:36:42.439 --> 01:36:46.880 all heard sounded like a barking sound, and Travis talks about it, and 1421 01:36:46.960 --> 01:36:50.720 this after actual half he heard he had a lock flown at him from up 1422 01:36:50.800 --> 01:36:54.880 in a tree. It came from up in a tree. And then we 1423 01:36:55.079 --> 01:37:00.479 pursued that with a strange, deep, loud barking sound from so he thought 1424 01:37:00.520 --> 01:37:03.720 of it was trying to diverge him away from the first tree to where's that 1425 01:37:03.840 --> 01:37:09.479 vocalization? Here we go, now these guys have been another rock thrown in 1426 01:37:09.560 --> 01:37:15.159 the camp Particlely Hayes and Lawrence unloaded. They threw about twenty yos r right 1427 01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:18.439 after together into the Middlewoods and onto the mountain. Usually another rock war golf 1428 01:37:18.479 --> 01:37:23.920 team had several rock wars with these things. During their their week now twenty 1429 01:37:24.439 --> 01:37:28.840 five, Who's on a Friday night train, Hayes and Lawrence heard a very 1430 01:37:28.920 --> 01:37:32.560 bizarre vocalization from what we call them Middlewoods. They described it as a deep 1431 01:37:32.800 --> 01:37:38.520 growling, almost pant hood type of vocalization. But according to Lawrence, who 1432 01:37:38.640 --> 01:37:42.399 ord at the best of the three, found it almost like a deep maniacal 1433 01:37:42.520 --> 01:37:45.880 pant hood. That's the way it described because it was really loud and go 1434 01:37:45.079 --> 01:37:49.880 through the woods. Lawrence continued to throw rock to the version. Hayes immediately 1435 01:37:50.039 --> 01:37:53.840 quickly ran around the middle Wood observed the Middlewood from the south, but he 1436 01:37:53.880 --> 01:37:59.399 wouldn't able to seem really strange stuff man again, very ape White, remarking, 1437 01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:00.720 when you and I were there a couple of years ago and we heard 1438 01:38:00.760 --> 01:38:03.760 the pant hoot, which sounded just like if you do a Google search for 1439 01:38:03.840 --> 01:38:08.079 pant hoot, you're going to hear what you and I heard. Has that 1440 01:38:08.199 --> 01:38:10.680 ever been a step of a show. I believe it has. I believe 1441 01:38:10.720 --> 01:38:14.840 I brought it up. But you and I and another member were in very 1442 01:38:14.920 --> 01:38:17.239 near where the cabins are that we operate out of, and and we heard 1443 01:38:17.720 --> 01:38:24.159 a pant hoot and we worked at the time figure itea yeah, yes, 1444 01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:26.840 oh yeah, And it was very loud. And what was interesting in what 1445 01:38:26.920 --> 01:38:30.239 we heard is at the end a bunch of coyotes that were yipping and yapping 1446 01:38:30.239 --> 01:38:32.399 at the end, and then the coyotes whining, so almost like something bad 1447 01:38:32.439 --> 01:38:36.359 happened to a coyote, You know what cool about that? I didn't realize 1448 01:38:36.359 --> 01:38:40.880 that, but later on I think you sent the chition my diad about let 1449 01:38:41.119 --> 01:38:46.159 drought. We heard that sounds very similar to what you and I heard shell 1450 01:38:46.239 --> 01:38:49.239 end of it if they clearing a patch through the woods, because there were 1451 01:38:49.279 --> 01:38:54.560 the free huge logs across the trail, and so we had to cut these 1452 01:38:54.600 --> 01:38:58.159 smaller trees so we could drive and get back to the cabin. I started 1453 01:38:58.199 --> 01:39:00.800 out a truck engine and pulled them fucked through the full narrow gap that we'd 1454 01:39:00.880 --> 01:39:04.159 check that we'd been sowing this tree for thirty minutes. And I looked at 1455 01:39:04.199 --> 01:39:08.119 you in the wearview mirror, and you're doing your paying the coffs your neck 1456 01:39:08.279 --> 01:39:12.600 like you were good bat it's deder cop kill it, kill it and killed 1457 01:39:12.640 --> 01:39:15.560 my engine. I got out and hour this most god awful sound. They 1458 01:39:15.680 --> 01:39:19.920 just kept all in hour to fume seconds and I think y'all wered it for 1459 01:39:20.159 --> 01:39:24.520 being twenty seconds night and it was. At first I was trying to figure 1460 01:39:24.520 --> 01:39:27.720 out if it was some kind of weird bird vocalization, and in my head, 1461 01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:29.479 I was like, is that a turkey? I didn't know what it 1462 01:39:29.600 --> 01:39:31.039 was. But this is what you do, right, You experience these things, 1463 01:39:31.079 --> 01:39:33.520 and this is your brain taking a new peg and trying to find a 1464 01:39:33.560 --> 01:39:36.560 hole that it fits into. Many it's just queer and chill bumps went down 1465 01:39:36.600 --> 01:39:40.760 my spine. It was a freaking cent and at the end of it, 1466 01:39:40.920 --> 01:39:45.840 the coyotes were getting involved. Towards the end, yepping any appen and then 1467 01:39:45.880 --> 01:39:49.600 when it stopped, the coyotes were crying, they were whining. And that's 1468 01:39:49.600 --> 01:39:54.279 so what my speculation is, because this is all speculation that we had just 1469 01:39:54.479 --> 01:39:58.600 heard this interaction between these forest animals, this coyote and perhaps an ape. 1470 01:39:58.840 --> 01:40:00.960 But we remarked at the time that it sounded almost like laughing, because that's 1471 01:40:00.960 --> 01:40:03.520 what it sounds like if you hear what a pan who sounds like it sounds 1472 01:40:03.560 --> 01:40:06.880 like a laugh. It's weird, crazy stuff. It's a remarkable place, 1473 01:40:08.600 --> 01:40:12.840 and it's that Ocum station. We're like a chimp on steroid. Really imagine 1474 01:40:12.840 --> 01:40:16.960 an eight football up that puts ended like what happens next down there? With 1475 01:40:17.079 --> 01:40:20.680 fill continue operation relentless. I'll be going in a little over a week taking 1476 01:40:20.720 --> 01:40:24.880 another team in there, Alf and Jiggins and not Travit. Lawrence will be 1477 01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:30.359 taking another next week and continue to observe it. And we're going to continue 1478 01:40:30.359 --> 01:40:38.319 to chimp to collect irreputable evidence Speaki in North America. We're on have like 1479 01:40:38.399 --> 01:40:41.239 a dollar with the bone and not going away. And I want people to 1480 01:40:41.319 --> 01:40:45.079 understand this different presentation about three weeks ago and one of the last questions bad 1481 01:40:45.159 --> 01:40:46.239 me. I wouldn't let us go once I got through at the presentation, 1482 01:40:46.760 --> 01:40:49.680 they wanted to ask questions for another forty comment. They wanted to find in 1483 01:40:49.760 --> 01:40:53.880 the questions, which how long do you think it will be? Or the 1484 01:40:54.000 --> 01:40:57.399 thing has proven to be. I don't know how long it will be, 1485 01:40:57.479 --> 01:41:00.359 but I will see you. This thing could have and at any time, 1486 01:41:00.720 --> 01:41:03.720 yeah, any day that three from the pic cerature. I want you to 1487 01:41:03.800 --> 01:41:08.159 understand that it could happen at any time. I'm not not a problem, 1488 01:41:08.800 --> 01:41:12.960 but the promise that it could happen at any time. What I'm saying is, 1489 01:41:13.039 --> 01:41:15.760 I you know, I don't know what's gonna happen, but I can 1490 01:41:15.880 --> 01:41:19.039 tell you that it very well could happen. Yeah. Everyone, not everyone, 1491 01:41:19.119 --> 01:41:25.359 but people who know me personally have been asking me for percentages like odds, 1492 01:41:26.039 --> 01:41:28.159 And I don't know that I can give you odds, but I agree 1493 01:41:28.199 --> 01:41:30.479 with you it could be happening right now. Is sure your odds? When 1494 01:41:30.520 --> 01:41:33.039 no drops are thrown, you just want to say to the every day there 1495 01:41:33.159 --> 01:41:36.439 is an ape at the other end of that rocks. They can't speed anymore 1496 01:41:36.720 --> 01:41:40.960 for reasons I've already talked about. They can't eat any more than thirty yards 1497 01:41:41.000 --> 01:41:45.560 awake when it's gonna Bilbow's blocks. They can't be So there's your odds now. 1498 01:41:45.640 --> 01:41:48.479 They've got darkness on their side, they've got fin foods on their side, 1499 01:41:48.520 --> 01:41:55.239 they've got this tremendous physical ability, they've got some very sharp cognitive field. 1500 01:41:55.720 --> 01:41:58.760 It got through decided the advantage. But we don't have to be tricked 1501 01:41:58.760 --> 01:42:01.239 about believe the world that the Moore have been pay it off for. But 1502 01:42:01.399 --> 01:42:04.800 they he'll get back in up favor a little bit. They are the good 1503 01:42:05.079 --> 01:42:08.399 that we're going to be able to solve it. Some people don't want to 1504 01:42:08.439 --> 01:42:11.239 hear that. No, some people do not want to hear that, And 1505 01:42:11.319 --> 01:42:14.760 I'm sorry for that. But I believe the progress of science. I don't 1506 01:42:14.800 --> 01:42:18.479 believe in Godma, I don't believe in in Modi. I don't believe in 1507 01:42:18.560 --> 01:42:21.880 that. I believe the progress of science. And the thing is, science 1508 01:42:23.000 --> 01:42:25.560 needs to know about it. The world needs to know about it. There 1509 01:42:25.600 --> 01:42:30.439 could be great benefits for humankind by discovering this animal. Great things we could 1510 01:42:30.520 --> 01:42:34.279 learn about our bills, about our history, about our path, about our 1511 01:42:34.359 --> 01:42:40.399 future, about our mention such it needs to happen. And uh, you 1512 01:42:40.439 --> 01:42:42.920 know fet people say, why are you not? Are you? You're coffee 1513 01:42:42.920 --> 01:42:45.800 about the advancement of fighting of the age. That's why needs to happen yet 1514 01:42:45.880 --> 01:42:48.600 today. And then all the things that I've talked about on the show before 1515 01:42:48.640 --> 01:42:53.600 about how we don't know what their populations are like all the other sort of 1516 01:42:53.760 --> 01:42:59.000 analogs of large apex predators, omnivorous animals, none of them are doing well. 1517 01:42:59.239 --> 01:43:01.880 Right. There's not one that you can point to that isn't being protected 1518 01:43:01.960 --> 01:43:05.359 and purposely trying to be brought back. All of the ones that are out 1519 01:43:05.359 --> 01:43:09.199 there have suffered dramatically in the past several hundred years, So there's no reason 1520 01:43:09.239 --> 01:43:12.439 to believe that what apes aren't in the same bucket. And we'll continue along 1521 01:43:12.479 --> 01:43:15.239 the same trajectory until such time as they're real and that they get official recognition. 1522 01:43:16.119 --> 01:43:23.079 The primitive big thicketgentimated to you, have been at one time one meridian 1523 01:43:23.199 --> 01:43:30.720 acres side the big Ticket National Preserve now is probably one hundred a acres. 1524 01:43:30.800 --> 01:43:33.399 It's high frightenment. It is all broken up right. It isn't one big 1525 01:43:33.520 --> 01:43:42.560 clumb. It's serenity encroached. It's surrounded by development, highways, by residential 1526 01:43:43.000 --> 01:43:47.640 development cities that are growing to the south thirty miles southeast. You've got Houston, 1527 01:43:48.039 --> 01:43:51.880 their millions and manads of people in Houston. Their habitat is dwindling, 1528 01:43:53.039 --> 01:43:57.680 and we've got to be able to do something to be able to stay that 1529 01:43:57.840 --> 01:44:02.920 habitat where we are now area are going to turn that into a national wildlife 1530 01:44:03.079 --> 01:44:08.159 refuge. So I think any of it in our organization will want to see 1531 01:44:08.840 --> 01:44:14.159 in that entire area out they're fragmented a human development. Now, don't get 1532 01:44:14.199 --> 01:44:16.920 me wrong, I'm all for a human Bogert and I'm expanded. We have 1533 01:44:17.079 --> 01:44:20.479 to be able to develop, we have to be able to expand. But 1534 01:44:20.960 --> 01:44:26.960 at the same time, I'm also for the preservation of our precious reach forces 1535 01:44:27.159 --> 01:44:30.560 in our environment, particular where you've got an animal like this seems to prefer 1536 01:44:31.600 --> 01:44:36.199 large wild bances, wilderning you go. If you go in, you start 1537 01:44:36.279 --> 01:44:42.000 fragmenting that, you start logging all of it, and you start developing it. 1538 01:44:42.119 --> 01:44:47.479 Then maybe a family group needs five hundred square miles and that got to 1539 01:44:47.600 --> 01:44:54.560 be protected somehow. That's why the sense of urgency. This is definitely a 1540 01:44:54.640 --> 01:44:58.960 period issue, and it's critical. I think. I think it's very critical 1541 01:44:59.600 --> 01:45:02.319 if we can we can do something to say that and to keep these plates, 1542 01:45:02.680 --> 01:45:08.479 the big thicket threnches are think further fragmented it could have been think well 1543 01:45:08.600 --> 01:45:11.239 this species. Then we need to do it, and we need to do 1544 01:45:11.279 --> 01:45:15.399 it quickly. Agreed, Daryl. I I really appreciate you you coming on. 1545 01:45:15.600 --> 01:45:18.279 I know that we've we've just scratched the surface of of of the things 1546 01:45:18.279 --> 01:45:21.159 that have happened in there, and we could we could keep going for two 1547 01:45:21.199 --> 01:45:26.159 more hours telling stir. But I do appreciate you, you coming on the 1548 01:45:26.199 --> 01:45:29.399 show and and and taking your time, and and filling in the background of 1549 01:45:29.640 --> 01:45:35.039 of UH this year's Operation Relentless. And that's it. They say, you 1550 01:45:35.279 --> 01:45:45.800 don't gotta go home, but you can't stay. I don't want to be 1551 01:45:47.560 --> 01:46:15.119 uppings step step child, this child, that child everything. Can you ride 1552 01:46:15.359 --> 01:46:24.239 back, right back? Joy for me, joy staying right, you come 1553 01:46:24.319 --> 01:47:36.960 it right away? Still step sisters shout, knocking down doubts, Still STASSSS used THESS