Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and another exciting show for you this evening. Just a couple of things next week, I'm still I'm back on the East coast, by the way, I had a wonderful time out on the West Coast and going to be here for next week. We have a great guest, Chris Pittman. He's been in a lot of TV shows. He's a UFO historian, real nice guy. I'm really looking forward to that show. I'm going to be doing that show from New England, and then the following week, my friend and I are heading out to Arizona. We're going to be at the move On boot Camp. I'm going to be filming during the boot camp. I actually have permission and it's going to be a lot of fun. And then we're going to be doing a show right from one of the move On members homes out there with I think Matthew Roberts, who is a guest that a lot of people really liked on this show before he lives there. He's going to be joining us as far as I know. That should work out. This week, we have a blog by Charles Lear again, hats off to him, he does a lot of really good work. This title to this one's called UFOs. Nightcap in the CIA. NIGHTCAP is the National Investigations Committee for Ariel Phenomena that was founded back in nineteen fifty six and it was actually it appears to be that it was founded by a CIA member. He had something to do in the past with the CIA, and so it's a it's a bit of a cloudy area whether the CIA, well, they actually admitted they were over it, and I was putting it out there that they were part of it in the very beginning and then later on as well. I know Jack Brewer has done a lot of investigations on this, and I'm not really sure if it can be one hundred percent sure that there was CIA involvement all the way along, but I do believe that they wanted to find out some information and there was also something about propulsion at one time that was very interesting that someone involved in NYCAP was involved in great article over there, and as always they're made into audio blogs that come out about during the weekend every week that also pops up on YouTube and also on our podcast feed. And by the way, if you are new and you want to join the podcast feed. The RSS link is right on our website, which is podcast ufo dot com. Anyone can support the show for two dollars or more a month, and that link is over again on podcast viewfo dot com. Also on the sidebar you can join the mailing list so you can find out who's on our show every week, and also a link to the blog. You only get one newsletter a week. I don't inundate people with anything else but just who the guest is and if there's a sudden change that may come up. Other than that, I will leave everyone alone and you can join. All you have to do is drop in your email address and confirm it and that's it. So anyway, our guest this evening doctor Irena Scott. She was on about four or five years ago and she has been doing a lot of work, good work in this field. She has a DA background. She I believe went to veterinarian school. I can talk to a little bit more about that. She is her PhD. And she is a wonderful guest. I remember her from last time, very enjoyable and it gives me great pleasure to bring her on the show this evening. And here she is welcome to the show. Do you want to be called Irena or what would you like to be called? Irena? That's my name? Okay, all right now I remember Arena. Thanks so much for your willingness to be on. I try to get Calvin Parker. I'm not sure he's had some health issues. Trying to get him to join us, but I wasn't able to reach him. But that would but he still has time. I mean, if he sends me an email or whatever during this show, I can still try to bring him in. But anyway, I remember you telling me about your background. But you if I if I have this right, you grew up kind of on the poor side, and I don't I believe you only had a radio when you were growing up, and you didn't have a TV, and you had some type of strange UFO encounter. But it was a small thing, and let's start out with that. When you were really young, this thing came into your room, and I want to I want to rule out the obvious things that it could have been. First of all, firefly. Um, so I'm going to ask you a couple of questions. You thought it was more like an orange glowing thing. It was small, like the size of a I don't know, a few inches or something like that. And it was like an orange glowing thing. Did it blank it all? It was at a steady, steady light. Well, since the tik tak has come out, it was just about like that. It was small and shape sort of like a cough dropper or tik tak And how about that, so I have something to describe it with now. It was yeah, look like a little piece of metal. It looked like sort of like real hot iron glows. And we were very poor at the time. My father had been my parents had been farming with horses almost before that, and they electrified and we got a radio, but we didn't We weren't exposed to the media at all, and we never heard of UFOs or flying saucers or even space travel or anything else. It happened to my sister and I and we were sleeping in opposite sides of a attic room and it was summer and nice weather and dark at night, and I just woke up and this thing was flying around the room. And it was nothing like a firefly, which we were quite familiar with from living on a farm, and like nothing I'd ever seen before, but it was just sort of buzzing around like it just a browsing motion, like it was looking around or something. But I soon noted I was about six years old and my sister was about four, and I didn't know she was awake, but we apparently had both look up about the same time. I noticed pretty soon that it didn't run into anything. It would just fly around. If it came to an obstacle, it would veer off it. It deflected from walls and the furniture and everything else, and so I couldn't understand it because it looked like something dead, but it was behaving like something alive. And I thought this was very very strange, and it kept flying around. It got close to both of us, and I wasn't especially scared or anything. I just didn't have any idea what it was because I've never seen anything like it. It didn't blink, it didn't make any sound then after just sort of just a random motion like it browsing. But it came close to us a couple of times, both of us. It flew up to the ceiling, but it didn't hit the ceiling. It turned and veered off, and there was a it was a nattic room, and the walls came together at the top. There was about three feet in between them, with a chandelier in the middle of the room, and it flew around under them. It flew from where it was to the chandelier, and it seemed to know where it was, and it seemed to know how to get between it and the walls, and it just began to circle the chandelier, but between the chandelier and the walls, and then it circled for quite a while, and then it came down, just in a perfect spiral, just like if you put a lyne right straight down from the chandelier. When it got just about directly below the chandelier, we both became terrified and started running out of the room and screaming and everything. And we were so terrified we ran each other and fell down the stairs, and then we couldn't get the study door open, and we ran to our parents shrieking, and they told us it was that nothing had happened, that we were just imagining it, and obviously we weren't because two of us saw it, but they sort of kept on segment, you know, we were lying or imagining it. So that was what happened? Yeah, yeah, I know who. I remember. I had a back come in my room and my father didn't believe me I had and I got a video of it and put it on YouTube. Well, and I remember also the other sighting you had. We talked about this too. The other sighting you had was really weird because a trucker stopped when you were trying to take a picture and you were appointing to the object, and he kept turning and looking the opposite way of the way you were appointing. That's what I remember you told me from the last time you were on which is the most bizarre thing. And then the thing got away and you didn't get a picture of it, or you didn't get a good picture or something. Right, Well, yeah, it should have been obvious. My sister was there too, and he came up and started talking to us, and at first I thought we had another witness because the thing was close and you could see in the windows, and we thought they were windows instead of panels, and we'd seen blimps with lighted sides and things. And he came up and said, what are you looking at? And I pointed and acted like it was an airplane. I didn't say ufo, and he just rotated around, looked the exact opposite direction and said, I don't see anything. Then he turned back around and looked at me and said, I don't you know, and said, what are you looking at? And I pointed again at it and he turned around right before that. I was just ready to get a perfect picture too, and I to him, but then he turned. He turned around just exactly the opposite of where it was, so he mustn't known where it was, said I don't see anything. He turned back around, and then he did a motion like pointing his head or something like I was insane, And then he went back to his truck. And I found out some more about that recently too, But he went back to his truck. But I did get a picture and it turned out good and I published in a scientific journal. But then I decided to get on the freeway and turned my car around so it'd be going the opposite direction. Well, he got right behind me, right on my bumper, turned his bright lights on, showing him in my mirror so that I couldn't I was just blinded because trucks have higher lights. I ye wor to and I slowed down and speed it up and everything else, and he just stayed on my bumper, and I thought he was going to kill us. And I finally thought whereas a truck, he must be heavier, and I floored it. Well, he stayed right behind me, and so I couldn't get rid of him, and finally I decided what to do would be to go on the left hand side of the road and then when I saw an intersection, just suddenly veer off. And I did that and got rid of him. But he could have killed us, and so it was a pretty suspenseful, yeah, much more horrific than the UFO sighting itself. He wasn't wearing black, was he. I don't know. It was dark, and I didn't you know, I didn't know he was going to chase us beforehand. I just, I mean, so bizarre. I would have observed him more, I guess, but we were pretty busy watching the object too. So I know your training is are you actually a veterinarian or did you train to be one? Well, I wanted to get an astronomy and I tried that, yeah, and it was me a lonely for a long time, and so finally I was working my way through school. I didn't have a lot of money, so eventually I went to VET school and got a PhD. But I didn't really want to be a VET. I wanted to do research, so I got a PhD instead of the VET degree. Although PhD it's probably just as well, right, And I know your first lovel was astronomy, and so why don't you talk about that? And you did some work in the d IA through that, right. Yeah. When I was trying to get into astronomy, I played the jobs and they just said no females, and I didn't have any success at all, and I wasn't allowed to apply. So I tried to get into mapping at first, into cartography because they hired females and they were also mapping the Moon and other places. But I wound up with a real high security clearance and eventually wound up at the DA And my one part of my job where there was in air order of battle, and that was from using satellite photography and looking down and identifying airplanes particular location on the world. In the world, they had different people in different places and so um I was in photographtry identifying airplanes. I see, wow, that's so, um and that's pretty interesting that you got involved, um with UFOs after having that background. That's that's pretty interesting. But um, and all the time that you were doing that type of work, I bet you were probably never really talked about UFOs, did you? Definitely not. I was there were only two females on the whole floor, and it was weird enough to be a female. But um, I definitely didn't go around saying I see UFOs like security clearances and UFOs aren't supposed to exist. Even so, it's not something you talked about, right right, Well, you know there happened some women in astronomy over the years, had ever really made some big breakthroughs. I um, let's see Herschel was one of them. I'm just trying to remember whom some other ones were. But there have been people in but you know they You're right, they start out with their disadvantage, like you know, what does a woman know? That's the thinking then, which is kind of ridiculous. And um, I do remember there was one that made some major breakthroughs in the nineteenth century at some point, which is really too bad. White and you're during our time, in your time that it was looked down upon. That's that's really sad because, um, your your life could have taken a whole different turn and you have been doing something you really loved. Yeah, I'm disappointed with that my whole life right right. So UM, let's let's talk about you've already we've written a book before. That's what you talked about last time you were on. And you have a new book. Let's talk about that one. Um, my new book is Beyond Pascagoula, and um uh Pascagoula. Uh, the Pascagoula abduction is very famous throughout It's one of the most famous abductions ever. Um. And what I wrote about was everything else beside the Pascagoula abduction. Should I go into what the Pascagoula abduction was? Yeah, I mean I've had Calvin on a few times and actually he um. I actually he got him involved in when he was writing his book and connected him to Philip Mantle. And but Calvin had remained quiet for many, many years, and he actually I had a blog up on my website. He read the blog, emailed me this is going back about six or seven years ago. And when he did that, I was so excited that it was actually him. I said, is this the Calvin Parker? He said yes, and so he was on the show and he decided to talk about it again and so I'm and it's come quite a long way from there. It's always been a fascinating case. But um, yes, for the we do have a lot of new listeners, So why don't we go quickly into that about what him and Hickson experience back then and and on the dock, right, the fishing dock. So go ahead if you wouldn't mind doing the nutshell of that. Well, I think Philip Mantels said you were who connected Um Calvin and him, right, So that's pretty fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Philip has done a really good job with what he's done with this, and also you as well. Well. What happened was to cover quickly was that Um Calvin and Charles Hixon were co workers at a shipbuilding facility and after work they decided to go fishing, and so they went one place and didn't catch a fishing, went someplace else, and so on. Finally they wound up at this place where Charles wanted to go that was kind of posted like no fishing or something, and he said it's okay to go, when Calvin was nervous about it, and say the police will get us and everything. So they went on out to the pier fishing, and then they saw blue lights and he was afraid the police or after him, and so he looked for cops and he was gonna tell Charles, it's your fault, you can go to jail. But it was much much, much worse than the police, because this object came down. It didn't land, it just kind of hovered over the ground, and these three things came out and two of them grabbed Charles, and one of them grabbed Calvin and took him inside the object and apparently did some measurements on him and that sort of thing, and then released them. Well, they were terrified beyond anybody you could even imagine. And apparently Calvin, after they released him, was just standing there with his arms up in the air, and Charles kind of woke him up. And they discussed where they should talk to it, tell anybody, and they said no, and then Charles, who was the older man and who had been in the war and had been through real bad experiences, said yeah, we have to tell somebody, and Calvin didn't want to. He didn't want to talk about it. He just wanted to get away and not think about it. But they first contacted the newspaper, and the newspaper was closed, and then they contacted Kessler Air Force Base and they said, we don't the Air Force doesn't take UFO reports and told him to go to somebody local. So they contacted the police, and you can imagine what it would be like to contact the police with that. I mean, they Charles called and said, you won't believe this, but we were abducted by you fo. And you know, the police probably thought they were crazy, except that they could the person that talked to him could hear Calvin in the background crying and pleading not to say anything. And so they had him come to the police department and they interviewed him separately, and then they put him in a room together and somebody interviewed him, and the person was interviewing left and they didn't tell him, but they had a tape recorder and hidden in the room, and so they were the police were planning to trap him, and they figured when they left the room that they would joke and say, ha ha, we really put one over on them, but instead they were both just absolutely terrified and just beyond anything. And so then the police began believing them. And now, and due to the fact that there were two of them and they had a lot of credibility on account of the tape and everything. It's one of the top and they reported it immediately too. It's one of the top UFO abduction cases. Ever, it really isn't there. There is the funny thing about that is the beings, you know, the description because Calvin doesn't remember what Charles Hickson did as far as when I mean, I can pull this up in a minute. It take me a minute to find it and put it in there. But Calvin's drawing is from I'm not Calvin's I'm sorry, Hickson's drawing of this thing has cones on its head, and that's not what Calvin remembers. But he also remembers one that looked like a woman. He called it the woman. And you know, there was the way he was examined and all that is pretty bizarre. He you know, he had actually had some pain too, so um, you know, I know that really affected him in a lot of ways. So I'm trying to pull up the picture now, but so there were other people that actually saw this thing, you know, not exactly at the same time, but um, but people there they think that some people are two witnesses, I believe. Is that right? That think they saw something that very same night? Is that? Is that how that goes? There were more than one. Um. The person from the sheriff's department said that actually there were fifty formal reports that night of people seeing things and a lot of other ones that didn't get actually recorded. So there were a huge number of sightings of people return of people reporting something that same night. And um, yes, they he thought they thought that whatever the things were that got him were kind of mechanical, right three that you got a hold of them. We're kind of like mechanical things or robots and like floating off not quite touching the ground, which is something that you do hear a bit about on some of the other cases too, for instance the Ariale school. They didn't actually see this thing standing on the ground, This being or there were three or four beings whatever they were. Um, like they floated along, that's what they Calvin remembers, Now, I never got to speak with Hickson. He passed away while you know, quite a while ago. But um, but according to Calvin, you know, these robotic things came out and as soon as they touched him, they kind of he feels as though they floated. It's a wild story, but it's it's the best part of this whole entire story, in my opinion, is the tape you mentioned when they didn't know they were being recorded. They had no clue they were being recorded in that police station, and you know, Calvin was horrified, you know, and it came across and that tape is available. I was actually able to listen to part of it. It's not very clear you can hear it, but I do believe I may have this right that it's on YouTube. I don't know if you've ever listened to it. Yeah, I've listened to it. I can't remember where I listened. I could probably look it up, but I couldn't write. Now, So what was the genesis of you writing this book? Let's let's get into that. Well, the genesis was for two things. One is is that m felt Mantle. There were actually a lot of other witnesses and nobody had come fourth much. But he was finding people that will talk about it now, and so he won somebody United States to interview people and record the interviews and that sort of thing, and he was over and in had an English accent and everything. I think he wanted an American to it. So I was interviewing the other witnesses. But I had actually started on the investigation of that years ago because something at the same time as their abduction, something had happened in my family that had caused me to be curious and start, well, do you want to talk a want to just take a little side step and talk about that, Yeah, what happened in your family? Yeah? Um. What had happened was that I was at the University of Missouri at that time working on my PhD. And I got a phone call from my mother, who was in Ohio, and she said, did you hear this sound? And I started kidding her because she always said she had the mensia, we should tell her and things, and so I started joking with her and telling her, you know, get the straight jacket and turn yourself in and everything. And she still seemed to be curious about whether I heard a sound, and I thought it was weird because she's a real skeptic. Several days later, she called and said that there was a real big UFO wave there and that everybody was seeing them, and UFO had chased one of her friends in a car, and that people were keeping their kids in it and staying in at night and everything else. And so afterwards I just forgot about it for many many years. And then I was working in Ohio State University and had a newspaper room with actual newspapers, and so one day, just for a whem, I decided to go in and see if I could find a date on when that sound had happened. And I didn't expect to find anything, and I walked into the newspaper room. There were thousand millions of newspapers, and I thought it never find it, but I thought it was nineteen seventy three, and I thought it was in the middle of October. That was just a guess. But I found it real fast, and it told about a real big noise, and I looked up more and it was it was never explained. There was this huge noise. It was just heart over this huge area and it had never been explained. And so just for something to do, I started doing some research on it, and I submitted it to a period of Scientific Journal, and the State of Ohio seismologists contacted me and he helped me do some more research and I did publish it in the Scientific Journal. But what was interesting was is that that sound had happened just about as well as you could time it at exactly at the same time as the Pascagoula abduction had happened. And so I don't know how it was tied together, but that after a while, some people I wasn't in uf followed here at that time, but some people in Ohio that we're in ufology asked me to give a talk about it, and I called it the Big Bang and gabe it and that's what actually pulled me into UFOs, was into the organizations, was that so it had something had happened at the same time as their abduction had happened, and that was sort of my start into getting into UFOs. Oh, so it actually proceeded long before you actually were able to actually speak with Calvin Parker. Then, yeah, I mean I hadn't even paid attention to that, because what I'd paid attention to is a sound. And then I didn't pay too much attention to it until just a few years ago when Philip told me, asked me to start interviewing people. And I haven't even read too much about it then, but the two things happened at about the same time. Yeah, and there was a there was a flap back in nineteen seventy three, right there was a huge flap. It was a lot of people consider it the biggest flap they ever had. A lot of it was a passive gool a lot, but a lot of it was in Ohio too, and all over the country. And maybe I think it was the world it was Sarah will references say it was the largest flap UFO flap that ever. It seems to me that I remember about that time. I was actually in high school. I remember that there was a lot of things locally. Now I grew up in southern Maine, right near the border of New Hampshire, and I remember that there was a lot of talk about UFOs early when I was in high school, So it's about that same time. And that was also the year of when they had the major gas shortage, the fuel shortage. If you remember that, there was a whole lot going on then. Um, there was the fuel shortage, there was the impeachment Nixon, the Um, they got rid of spiral agnew and put in a new vice president. Yeah, Agne was a big criminal. Well next thing I ever got a chance to get impeached, he resigned. He knew what was coming up. Yeah. Yeah, there was a lot of turmoil, a lot of But I do remember at the same time though, that was a very active time, and you know, I really wasn't paying that much attention to UFOs for most of my life, but I do remember people were talking about it. And there was also someone that tried to create a hoax. I do remember that in in in my area, someone from high school got caught trying to put lights on motorcycles and something I can't remember what it was, something bizarre and some sand pit or something like that, but yeah, but interesting and so um there were there was a lot going on in the Pascagoula area too. Is that what you found out when you were doing the research? There was a whole lot going on, and um, people didn't report back then. One reason was because Charlie and Kelvin were harassed so much that nobody even wanted to say anything. But now a number of people are coming forward and there are a lot of reports back then and also in the papers, and so I've been interviewing a lot of people that are coming forth. Now, why do you think they would take all this time? And what kind of witness can you find this many years after? I One of the things that people like to complain about is why do I always talk about why I'd always have guests to talk about all cases. And usually the reason I say it's important is because a lot of times people finally feel comfortable in coming forward and talking about it is is that what you find has happened in this particular case. Yeah, because they didn't want to talk about back then, because um, he said, a number of people just told me how they were harassed and they were called drunks and crazy people and everything else, and so they didn't say anything. Well, now the especially since the government in sixteen minutes and other things have said yeah, something's going on, Well, they feel more secure about talking about it and they don't get harassed as much. So amber quite a number of people have come forward. So nineteen seventy three is a long time ago. These are these people very elderly at this point, or where there are some people that were young at the time. A lot of them were young. Um, but you know, somebody just said, what did you do on October the eleventh, thineteen seventy three, We wouldn't know, but a lot of them saw UFOs in and then they heard about the Pascal abduction. Well that made them remember that this was when they saw it, This was when this happened, and so they have something to lodge in their memory to hook it to. So I think that's why a lot of people, you know, they they saw something strange, and if nothing like that had happened, they wouldn't have said anything. But instead Charlie and Calvin came forth and said something, or Charlie did I'm not too sure if Calvin wanted to, but um, and it made the newspapers and everything, and so people remembered that, and a lot of people wanted to report but they were too chicken too and finding there coming out of the coop. Yeah. Well, say, Calvin has been on several news stations in the area talking freely about it now, and I'm I'm sure that that is making has made a change in the whole thing as far as people like saying, oh, yeah, I remember something. Well, Uh, one of the two of the people we talked to where the Blair, mister and Missus Blair. And how Phelip Man heard about him was that Kelvin gave a presentation I think at the library or something Passagoula, and they heard about it on YouTube and a daughter of the couple wrote some to YouTube saying, yeah, my parents were there and saw it. And so Philip contacted him and asked me to interview him, and so anyway, I called up Missus Blair and I first of all talked to mister Blair for a short time, and then her and she said that and her daughters confirmed that that they had been on the opposite side of the Pascagoula from where Calvin and Charlie were on the day they were abducted on the night, and that they were by a pier and he was waiting for his supervisor because he and the supervisor were going out on boat to do some work, but the supervisor was late, and so they were in their car and he was sleeping, and Maria said that she began to see this what she thought was an airplane that was flying around the Pasacoula River, just randomly, and up and down and back and forth, and everything, and she kept saying, the pilot doesn't know where he's going, the pilot seems to be lost, the pilot seems strange. And then her husband decided to take her to take his clothes down to the ship, and it was about nine o'clock and he walked down and she walked down, and she said, as she was walking down the pier of this thing that looked like a person came up to the pier, and she thought it was a person, and she seemed to be very, very, very upset about it. And then they went on down to the ship, and then she said she came back about twelve to the car and she was so scared she ran back. And so I could tell she was real upset about this thing that came out of the water, And so I interviewed her several more times since she was just really stressed about it, and there was also seemed to be missing time too. But anyway, are you able to go more into details on this. Yeah, Well, they were on the opposite side of the Pascola River at the same time as the abduction took place, and so the thing that they were seeing might have been the same thing that abducted the two and then her husband died last year. And her husband had been a debunker and he had always told her not to talk about it, that you know, people make fun of him. Don't say a word about it, and she didn't see anything, and finally he got real sick, and before he died, he told Maria that they had been abducted, but that he didn't want to ever talk about it because of the harassment and everything. I mean, he was a man, he had a job, and he didn't want him, you know, look crazy. And so he said he remembered being abducted, that they had taken him aboard at taking him aboard and done measurements on him, and the um, he seemed to be kind of repressed about talking about it. I mean he was for many many years. But then um, unfortunately he died and she couldn't get too much more information from him. But she said she remembered the thing coming down, She remembered the beings or the one that came that she saw, but she didn't remember being in the object or anything. She just remembered that it was really brightly lit. And so um, she thinks she has repressed memories and This happened way back right when they were first married, and they just started talking about it um just last year, and then he unfortunately died and she didn't find out any more from him. But he talked to her, and Tom to her and the Philip both before he went on the vettel later, but after he went on the later he couldn't talk. Wow, that's a shame. Did now this? This would be a prime case for someone like her to try, you know, I know it's not always doesn't always work, but it might to have a hypnotherapy regression, you know, and try to recall some more of those memories. I wonder if she'd ever be up for something like that. Oh yeah, I think she's interested. I think she wants to be, but she's pretty upset after his death. Of course. I don't think they've moved ahead on that because of that. I mean, she's still get getting adjusted because she's been married to him ever since she was really young, and she's just adjusting of that now, right right, right? And are there other these the two I would consider that pretty major. But is there other people that actually witnessed something similar to that or is it all just people that had seen things that around that time. Well, this was first that I don't I don't think it's ever been reported before because they might have been abducted by the same object that had Charlie and Calvin, they don't know, but anyway, it was it seemed to be the reported abductions were the same time in place, which was hasn't ever been reported before. But there was another during that same flap, there was another instance it wasn't it was in Utah, not at the same time, just a few weeks later of another instance of a object abducting several people at once that were different groups. And so that was a very first report that sort of thing. And then there were other people. Calvin and Charlie had always been criticized because they were close to a big freeway and they thought people should have seen that, but back then nobody said anything. But another um person was that there were crane operators and things like that, and people criticized, well, a crane operator and all these people said, sen it. Well, so I interviewed a crane operator who did see something at that time, and um, he was in one of the big cranes and actually his crane, the picture of his crane is in the book that the Calvin wrote. He was in a crane at that time and he saw this blue thing and he said it looked like it was kind of transparent or like um, transparent plastic or something. And he saw it A one or twelve on Earth it was. And then his supervisor the crane wasn't working and he was had to pull levers and things, and when he looked back the next time, it wasn't there, but this was. And then you know, the next you heard about the abduction, and so that would have been the same night too. And UM, there were several other people that had UM. Usually when you get UFO reports, somebody says, oh, I saw something, you know, a long ways away that just flew away. Well, with these, there were a number of real close UFO reports that were different from what you'd normally expect. UM. Another person, UM, let me see, there were UM some people on Dauphin Island, which was out um somewhere from UM the Pasacola River goes out and then the islands sort of towards the end of it. And they were there and UM they had a dune buggy and I forget what they were doing. But anyway, they got the doom baggy stuck and they were trying to get it out. Well, they said, this big thing came over and stopped right above him, and it was shining as bright light down so bright they could see all kinds of color in the sand, and they were absolutely terrified. And they were so terrified. Instead of trying to push the doom boggie out, I guess they lifted it out some way and got it out there real fast. And they told this man about it, and I guess he joked about him and said yeah. And then the very next day they heard about the Pastachal abduction, and so after that he believed him. And so that had happened that same night too. And there were these three men that were going toward New Orleans. I think I interviewed them too, and one of them was kind of famous but dead. Now. They were on the freeway and they saw this object coming over him, and something flew down from it and was right in front of their windshield when they were driving, and it was like it was taking pictures of them or something. And the man said, it was like they were all hypnotized that they couldn't they didn't say anything, and they just watched this thing and then it flew away, and they didn't talk for a while, and then they turned around and went back. And it was about a month before they went to wherever they were going, and they seemed to be confused and not knowing what was going on, and it seemed like they were sort of paralyzed when the thing was there. So there were a number of other things, and then you know, they heard about the abduction the next day, so they remembered it, but there seemed to be a number of really strange reports or that same day and night. Wow, And what did you say, was I believe you said something like a few weeks later, something happened in another state where there were several people abductor did you say that. Yeah, there was one in Utah and this was a woman that had a bunch of kids, five or six kids, and there was some kind of disturbance and she called the police about it, and there was about a prowler or something, and her kids had said there was a spaceman there and she didn't pay attention to him. But about a year later she read about UFOs and she asked the kids again and they said there had been a spaceman and the well, I guess after that night she heard there was a prowler, and she took her kids and went to a neighbor's and then came back, and the kids had said that when they were there in their house, some of the couple of them said there was a space man there or something, and she didn't pay attention to it for her another year, and then she heard about UFOs, and then so UFO people begin to investigate and hypnotize them, and they talked about that. All the kids excepted one remembered being on board, and she remembered that under hypnosis too. And one thing they remembered that was strange was they remembered being lined up to get onto the UFO to be abducted, I guess. And they saw neighbors. And I think that was about the only other time when there was any reports of two different groups of people being abducted about the same time, and that was also doing the flap of seventy three wow. Back in nineteen sixty nine, the Berkshire's abduction, there were people that it was all from the same area. They were talking about knowing, you know, the other, the other children that they saw on board whatever this thing was. Yeah, so that's the only other time I've ever heard of something like that. That's that's really fascinating. So all this happens. I remember when I was speaking with Calvin about how it kind of made his whole life a mess. You know, he went into hiding for a couple of weeks. He had just started that job, and the phone was ringing off the hook. He was told to leave, and and it was it was kind of a mess for him for a long time. And he never wanted to talk about it, you know, And and it was pretty obvious in the beginning he didn't want to talk about it because he said that he wanted he wanted Charles Charles to say that he passed out just so we didn't have to talk about it, which you know, he was only eighteen at the time. So yeah, it was he's gone through quite a challenge with this thing. Well, he really has. And um, so I've interviewed two people that were the wives of two people just I mean, I interviewed Kelvin's wife and I interviewed Maria Blair, and both of both had husbands that refused to talk about the thing for many, many, many years. And um, so you know, if you just interviewed want maybe strange, But I interviewed two of them, and I guess it's you know, My theory is it's just so traumatic that they just was like post traumatic stress and they just didn't want to think about it. And there may be more that you know that they don't even remember too, right, And how you know, I've talked about this on the show a bit. How well do you think people's I know, this is such a traumatic event, you feel like you're going to remember the details, but it is. Things get changed, your thoughts get changed. There's just no way around that. So when you're getting an interview with someone that had this experience back in nineteen seventy three and the first time Blair, I think you said it is first time they're talking about it after all this time. How reliable is something like that, I don't know, because like with Calvin and Charlie, everything they said was a report in the newspaper immediately, I mean they're taping everything. Well, they've never changed it since then. They've said the same thing, you know, many many years later. But I think because seeing a UFO is pretty traumatic that if they heard, if people heard the next day that about the abduction, that they probably remembered it. And they also told people. And I ask everybody if they told people, and most of them told a few people like family members and things. And I have names, you know, with some of them I can check. With others I can't. But yeah, I think it sort of lodging their memories because of the abduction of hearing it right afterwards, I think it's very important to document right afterwards as well. And you know, it's funny. When I was in Santra Fell, California recently, I spoke to some friend and an antique shop had nothing to do with UFOs, and all of a sudden, I remembered that that her husband had said something to me, Oh, you do something on UFOs, and how interesting or whatever. So they had a major, major sighting of a structured craft that was huge and just floating there and shot down beams, and she immediately on her own wrote everything out and drew a diagram. She sent me everything she wrote, and I'm trying to get her to talk about it on this show, at least briefly for one of my breaks that I have and speaking of breaks, we're going into the break here. It's it's time for us to go in. But before I just saw this question pop up, doctor Scott. What did the alien Maria Blair saw look like? And if you can answer that quickly, we're going to break out to that. Well. She thought it looked like a human, but it came out of water, and I asked her if it was a fish, and she said no, and I guess it wasn't a dolphin. She thought it looked very human, but that's the only thing she remembered. But her husband saw beings or things or whatever, but I don't know exactly if she described him, and like he went out to a ventilator, but there first of there he saw a different group and one of him was like six feet tall, and then the other group and I think abducted him, was like five feet tall or something. It's really amazing when you think about, you know, scientifically, all the changes that gravity can make on a being growing, evolving and all that. You know, all kinds of factors make make up what height is. Food, you know, the availability of foods and things like that. So we're ready to go into the break. So if you're over at KGr A Radio. We'll be back in about three and a half minutes. And for those of you on YouTube and Facebook and all that, we have Yvonne Smith coming up now. This this little clip that I did here. She will freeze on the video, but her the audio keeps going. It was because we had bad internet where we were recording and Newport Beach out in California and here it goes. So over at KGr A Radio, we'll be right back right after these messages. All right, I'm a Newport Beach with Yvonne Smith. Hi, Hi Martin, thank you for having me on. Yeah, nice to see you as always. Thank you. Can you explain what you're doing out here? Well? I just finished two days of abduction therapist training that I this is. This is was one of my main goals. I was trying to do this for four years and finally it happened this weekend and I had therapists coming in from Massachusetts, from New Mexico, New York, and Minnesota. And my goal is to have a trained abduction therapist in all fifty states because it's very needed. Now, now is what is the criteria of the people that you will accept in your training. They must already be certified in hypnotherapy, so they must be a certified hypnotherapist, because I'm not teaching the mechanics of hypnosis. And these are therapists who have a practice, a functioning practice, and they want to just bring in abduction cases. But they're very interested in they know there's a need for it. So I'm just teaching them from you know, from there with they're normally practicing, where you're using hypnotic regression and going through case studies. I did four live regressions with four actual abductees this weekend so they could see what happens during an actual regression and what I do every day. Right, Well, what is what in your opinion, what's the most important thing that you're teaching. Well, the most important thing, first and foremost is to help the individual relieve them from PTSD post traumatic stress disorder, because when they trust anyone, any one of us, we suffer a trauma, we will have PTSD symptoms. They're not able to function. It's interfering with their everyday life. You know, we have to go to work, we have to pay bills, and we get them put them in regression to bring up the buried memories, whatever was buried in there of their UFO siting, or they're missing time, and as we bring it forward to a conscious level, then they're able to deal with you know, intellect Actually, Okay, this happened to me, but I came back and I'm all right, And there we teach them how to integrate it into their lives. That's why I created my support group close to Counter Resource Organization, where we meet every month. So I'm hoping that my new therapists will also start support groups around the country. Excellent, Well, thank you so much. Thank you Martin very much to thank you. All right, welcome back. This is Martin Willison. My guest tonight is doctor Arena Scott and always fascinating guests. I loved the work she does in this field. And welcome back, Arena. And let me ask you this. Have you have you ever interacted with this topic with people that you had done previous work with in your field in any type of way? I mean, were you did you ever make friends and say when you work for the d IA or any other organization in the past where you kind of came out of the closet on this. Hey, look I'm doing this book on UFOs or anything. Have you ever had that experience? Yeah, And people made fun of me. They knew really, yeah, so you see UFOs today and things like that. I didn't really go around talking about people found out that I was interested. They would, you know, joke with me and things. Well, they're just joke, they're not really It's not like you wouldn't consider iculed, would you mean, it's more like joking around. Yeah, that was being ridiculed. And my sister wouldn't talk about much either. Even our family we talked about and I said, oh, no, that can't happen, but she did. She was kind enough to fill out reports. And my mother was a real skeptic, but she filed She fell out reports too. So, um, I didn't have anybody, you know, not tell the truth or anything. But there was some in a vision which I had a lot of two until my family came out of the closet. I spent about four or five days in Seattle a few weeks ago, visiting my sister and her husband now her husband. My brother in law worked at Los Alamos Labs in New Mexico, and he's a chemist, and I believe he worked in the weapons he was it was top secret exactly what he did. I remember when he was getting his clearance and all that. So the funny conversation is, uh, Selma Siddiku. She is one of the people that has is in the film that's will be coming out. We'll see it this year, I'm pretty sure before the year's end on a major streaming platform. The Ariel School phenomenon by by Randall Nickerson that's coming out. Well, I've kept in touch with Selma Siddik, who lives in Seattle. Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to visit. Whether I didn't have enough time when I was up there because of the other things we're doing. But so I brought up to my sister and my brother in law this whole thing about the Ariel School and how you know. To me is I think it's the most fascinating case of them all my own personal opinion. Someone asked me that's what I would say, And so I told them about all these school children seeing these beings and some of them getting messages like telepathic messages, you know, take care of the world and you know, the earth and all that, and some of them not. But their description of the beings. It was pretty scary if you ask me. I mean, it's it's pretty remarkable. These are young children that are impressionable. So many of them saw it, their accounts, their drawings right after. Our teacher had the foresight to have them all draw pictures of what they saw it. It's fascinating. But anyway, my sister is like sitting there. She was in the back, I was in the front. We were driving somewhere, and she's she's sitting there like a deer in the headlights and like her eyes are glazing over. I said, are you are you? Are you actually listening to me? Are you listening to me about this? And she yeah, yeah, And I said, so tell me, do you just think it's all bs? And you think that I'm just doing this show and it's all just bs and means nothing? I mean, she's never watched one of my shows or looked at any of it. And she goes, no, I just don't know. I just don't know. As well, that's a good answer. And then I look to mister scientists hurt. His name is Wilbur actually, and he gets the joke from mister ed Talking Horse saying Wilbur and all that stuff. But anyway, so Wilbur takes everything. He's a real statistical guy, takes everything about statistics and very very scientific or whatever. And so I said, hey, Wilbur, what do you think about this? What do you think about it all? And he goes, I think it's very possible. And I was. I was shocked, and I said, Hey, I'm someone that's totally a science guy. You know, all you do is think science. Thank you for saying that, you know, thank you for being open minded that it's possible. And I do see that. You know, I'm going off my own tangent here, has nothing to do with our topic tonight, but just maybe think about it when you talked about people joking or you know, making fun of you for taking this seriously. But I think that we are seeing a shift that people of science are actually looking into this more than ever since the ten years. And by the way, in just a couple of weeks it'll be ten years that I've done this show, and so I should have a tenth anniversary show or something coming up. It's actually another week and a half or so. I believe it was eleventh of November. It was the first time I did a show. But anyway, that was quite a rant. I went on, what do you think about all that? No, they're always saying science, cufos and all that. Well, I have scientific background. I mean I have a PhD from perfectly good school veterinary medicine, and I worked at a in research at Cornell which is ib leaguan Wow, a professor and things like that. So I and plus I have lots of research papers published, and so I think I have a background in science. And I mean, you know, they say, you know, females aren't scientists, but I think I had the same qualifications as a male. But um, I think that um scientists are coming out of the woodwork too. And some of the very best research has been done by scientists, like for example, I worked at Battel and I knew people worked there, but Bettel did a study for Project Bluebook. It was especially the reportant Or fourteen, and it was just an excellent study done in the best scientific way. And doctor Harley Rutledge, who was a head of physics department in the University of Southern Missouri, Missouri, I think, just did an excellent study of field study of UFOs. And I think some of the very best studies have been done for a scientist, and I was sort of emphasizing that in my previous book to say that, Yeah, scientists do say ce UFOs, and some of them have done very good work on UFOs too. That's right. I do believe we're getting a little bit of feedback from your speakers. So if you could turn down your audio. I have your microphone on mute right now while I'm talking. It only happens when I'm talking. But yeah, if you could just turn that down just a little bit, that would be that would be good. So yeah, I mean I'm seeing there's there's there's a lot of scientists that are actually feeling comfortable enough, and it's about time. That's how I feel about that whole thing. Now, Um you did I hear you? Um? Where where did you work at one time? I'm not sure what that noise is? Another strange noise across here that's outside. Yeah. I listened for a few minutes to Luis his The Unidentified Celebrity of View podcast with you and you worked or had something to do with the win the place with a wow signal of the SETI is that? Did you talk about that? On his show? Yeah. I used to work at the as astronomer, but a volunteer astronomer at the Ohio State University Radio Telescope, and it was where they had the Wow signal. I didn't have anything to do with that, but I worked at the same place and knew all the people. And it still hasn't been explained. It's um one that they consider might be a signal from ET and it's about the only one they've ever found through setting. Yeah, and do you find after all these years and all the you know, twenty four hours a day pointed out there somewhere, do you think there's a couple of my thoughts as m you know, maybe that's maybe radio signals is very primitive to whatever beings are out there. That's also a possibility, and by the time they reach here, a civilization could be extinct, all that type of thing. But do you think it's also kind of bizarre that all these years have gone by and there's only been that one strange signal. Yeah. And I interviewed the person that was in charge of the telescope on tape, and I think I put it on YouTube and asked him and he said that maybe, you know, we're pretty primitive and maybe you know, a few steps up they are communicating, but we don't quite get it yet. And I think the the experience, the physics experiments such a quantum mechanics and things like that, to me, they're weirder than UFOs and maybe we're sort of plowing along through, you know, fifteen hundreds clockwork. Newtonian physics and quantum mechanics is a whole lot different and so we may just be pretty primitive. Yeah, I know, I've said this a number of times on the show, that you know, wherever we are in existence in society, we think we're at the top of our game and that there's you know, and that we know everything that you know. We never say that we know everything, but we think we know mostly about physics or whatever. But I believe that we may have only scratched the surface, so, you know, because there are so many things, especially at the quantum level, that we have no idea. Yeah, I think quantum level is um, quantum mechanics is very very different from anything we understand now, and it the experiments in a lot of ways just point out that we don't know anything right concern you know that the collider there. I mean, they're they're they're coming up with just amazing things. And how small can small be? You know, it's it's is it infinite? You know? I mean it seems like it could almost be in a way, but it's all fascinating. All that stuff is fascinating. But anyway, um, so I'll just ask you a couple of questions if you if you could give a theory, even with your science background and all that, where do you think these things could be coming from? I mean, do you think it's possible that they're extraterrest or that could it be there? Multidimensional or time travelers? So what are your thoughts overalls? I don't think they've given us too much information. Like in thinking about that very first thing that happened to my sister and I back when we were tiny kids. We still remember, even though we didn't talk about it for years because we didn't even know it had anything to UFOs for a long time, but it was like there was some kind of thought control. I mean, like I remember I woke up and I saw this thing flying around. Well I didn't know my sister was awake seeing the same thing, but for some reason we woke up at the same time, and the room had two doors that were both closed in a window that had a screen, and so we don't know how the thing got in there. We don't know why we woke up at the same time and then we watched it, but suddenly both became terrified at the same time. Well, it was like there was some kind of thought control going through it, and also the thing just looked like a tiny piece of metal, but it behaves like something alive, and there was also, you know, a suggestion of some kind of mind control, and so it just seemed like that just way way back that if I if my friend would be working when I was a kid, that um, it seemed like, um, that's something that seemed just look like a piece of metal, seemed alive in some ways, and it also seemed like that we were experienced some kind of mind control. And that's something that's made me wonder ever since if there's mind control involved in the whole thing, which makes also makes it very very complicated besides the quantum mechanic aspect, and maybe maybe the phenomena's giving us clues, but I don't think we're really picking it up. I don't they say you know, well, this couldn't be done by us, therefore it's exeter terrestrial, or maybe we're not very sensitive, and maybe there's a lot more in Earth that we don't understand either. So I don't know if we really know anything about it, except that, in my opinion, it might involve mind control. That's really interesting, and I've said a number of times lately it seems that I do believe that we know very little about what is going on around us. Now. I remember you said it didn't make any sound, and I know that you and your sister were terrified and ran down the stairs of actually fell down the stairs when you're going down. But one of the things I don't think you mentioned, did you ever see this thing actually leave? We didn't. I don't know how it came in, and it just seemed to disappear. We both became terrified and ran out of the room, So I I suppose it just disappeared. I don't know. And did you go back to that room that night? Yes, my father said he would beat a supper before we didn't go back in the room. My parents didn't believe us, and so we both refused to budge, even though he threatened us, and finally my mother told him to go up and look. And he went up and look and said there's nothing in there, and we very very reluctantly back in the room. We weren't thrilled about it. But he turned on the light and there wasn't anything there. But it was still pretty scary. And I'm sure there were days that went by where you kept like looking for this thing and probably didn't get a lot of sleep, I would imagine, YEA. And another thing was kind of funny, was is that my mother was a skeptic, and she told us that you know, that didn't happen and everything, But many years later the whole family remembered, believe it or not. And many years later when I reported, UFOs asked her to write it up, and like I said, she just had heard from us. But what she wrote up was that she said something had come in through the window and that we were terrified and it flew. Then something came in through the window. Then this little thing flew around the room, and then when it stopped that we were I mean when it was flung around and we were terrified, and then we ran out when it stopped. It was like released our minds, and that wasn't what either of us remembered. But it was so funny because she had an explanation for how the thing got in the room, and we had no idea how it got in the room. Neither of assault get in the room. So it was a little bit funny the whole thing. And can you give me your idea of what you consider mind control would be? Well, in that case, there were two of us, and like if there was just one of if I was there by myself, you know, they would say this didn't happen, you dreamed it. But in that case, my sister and I weren't communicating with each other at all, but we both observed the same thing, and so it was like there could have been some form of mind control because we both saw the same thing. It was sort of impossible what we saw in a way, in the same way I told you about that man that later when my sister and I grew up, I mean, there's Jenny Randalls wrote a book that said that kids sometimes see small UFOs in their bedroom and then they grew up later and see large UFOs. Well, that's sort of that was written many many years after that happened to us. But that was kind of what happened to us, except that there were two of us, and then all the other instances I know of, there was just one person at a time. So we both have you know, independent another observer. But what I just found out very recently about them, the weird man when we had that sighting, was that I told you that he didn't He said he didn't see it, and then he gave me like the crazy sign. Well, my sister just a couple of months ago found a letter that she wrote to my mother that happened that she wrote to my mother that day the next day after we got home, and I asked her what she thought that man, and she said she didn't see him. She knew she saw him chases, but when he was talking to me, she said he didn't. She didn't know he was there, and she wondered why I took so long to get my camera ready and take a picture. And I was pretty scary because he was saying, they're putting his head and saying, I don't see this, and she apparently didn't know who he was there. Now, were you were sitting inside the car though, right, No, we were when we saw the thing. We both got out of the car. Oh, I got it, and I had a camera with high speed film, and I grabbed the film and started loading the camera. And that's when the man came and I was just ready to take this wonderful picture. So he started talking to me, but we were both standing behind the car and he was standing beside me. But she apparently didn't know he was there. And so that's pretty scary too and makes you wonder, especially since he was putting to his head and I thought she knew he was there, but apparently she didn't. Wow. So and in that case, you talk about memory. Well, like I was working for the d IA then I had a very high security clearance and I was in aircraft identification, so I was sort of qualified for having a UFO sighting in a way. But I knew I couldn't report it then. But that night I wrote down everything, and I don't have to rely on my memory because I just wrote down in detail every little detail that happened because I intended to report it sometime. Well, there's there's a guy that I met. I think he's a filmographer in actually doing something for Warner Brothers. I met him out and had a nice conversation with him. Nice guy. Um, he's a end of a friend. Dean Alioto's friend name is Charlie and I was sitting there at Newport Beach. Had a long conversation with him. But he'll he said something kind of disturbing. I actually want him on the show because I like to have people on the show. They have different opinions. He doesn't here he is he thinks there's something definitely to the abduction, you know what is happening in abductions, But he doesn't think there's anything solid out there for UFOs. And one of the things he said that no person out there is a better observer than another. I said, well, what about an astronaut? He said no. I said what about in military? Said no? And he went on and on about that. So I'm asking you, do you think you are a better qualified observer than most? I think probably that it'd just be my guess that you have those sightings are evenly distributed around in the people, but that scientus are more inhibited from talking about than other people or a lot of you know, people in authority and things, because they would get more trouble if they talked about it, and so I think probably sinus see as many UFOs as anybody else. But I think, you know, like when this happened to me, I wrote everything down to make sure I had it so that I could report it later. But I think, you know, it depends on your eyesight and your memory and everything else. But I think I've said this on the show before. I think it's very important. I was kind of surprised that my friend did this immediately wrote something down about it, like you just said. I think that's very important, freshen your memory and doing it right then. Yeah, because I don't have to worry about other I'm right now because I wrote it down right then. And you know, if I had errors back then, I had them, but I wrote it down that next night. And if we could, can you go over I know we're not talking exactly like we were before we went into break here, but could you please go over the details of that, of that particular sighting and what you saw. Yeah. Uh, my sister and I were in our twenties and we had never talked about UFOs because our parents were and everybody else you weren't supposed to talk about things like that, but we were both on the eastern Seacoast. I was working for the DA and she was in Drew University and New Jersey taking graduate courses or more advanced courses. And we decided to go up and see the New England's stay. It's just for a trip vacation, and went up and we were going to stay in Boston. And I got to Boston it was still daylight. So I went up to New Hampshire and drove around there a while, and interesting enough, I think we were in sort of the same place as some of them that abduction in New Hampshire took place. But anyway, Bernie Hill, Yeah, that's what I meant to say, I'm sorry. And then we came back and it was dark, and we were going to stay in Boston, and I looked around and I couldn't find a place to stay. Everything was crowded. So I was going to drive out to the outer Belton look around. And I was driving out and I think it was on Route nine and to the south of US, so we could see an airport, I think it was Norway Memorial Airport, and we could see airplanes coming in and landing and things, and they would come in with their red and green wing lights and their landing lights and everything. We were watching them, and there was this thing that was a whole lot lower. It was real white and blinking, and my sister started saying she thought this was a UFO, and I started saying, oh, you're crazy, and I kept telling her it was a helicopter, and we were arguing about it. Both of us at that time admitted to each other that we'd seen UFOs, which is something we didn't talk about. But anyway. Then I kept on driving and we were kind of arguing about it. I got on the outer belt and came on down to Route ninety five, and there was the woods to the west of us, and I saw this ball. It was like glass and had a light inside of it that was going through a spectrum of all shades of green, of all shades of blue, and all shades are red, and all kinds of shades are red, and then blue and then red, and I couldn't figure out what on earth this was. Then the inside of the car lit up in green, and I couldn't figure out what was happening. And I looked around. There was no green in place else, and the only place I could think it could come from was this ball of light and it wasn't green, and I just couldn't figure it out. And then it was on the side of us, and it was close to the ground, it was some distance away, and it was in the woods. So the green light left the the inside of the car just lit up for a while, and then it wasn't green anymore, and we kept on driving, and then my sister started yelling at me to pull over because she said this light we'd been watching, which was a different light, was going to go across the road, and so anyway, she started yelling at me, and so finally I pulled it over, and I was going to say I was going to point my hand out the window and saying, dingbat see it's a helicopter. And I pointed my hand out and I saw I Um, I mete her way off and apparently in my sister's right up she said that at that time that the inside of the car lit up, and that she thought the big object that shone a light in our car, which I didn't see. But then I was on the by the window too, and so the thing came over the road and I realized that she was right, and I was wrong. It was a We could see it real plain. It was. It had like it had seven windows and they blinked in a sequence like the first three wink twice, and then it all and then the last forward blink once and then to go through the cycle again. They were big square windows. And we asked each other, is this a blimp with lighted sides? And no, because it didn't look anything like it had We'd seen blimps with lighted sides. And this was soundless. It was going very slow. It had one red light on one end, it was real small and non blinking in one green light on the other end. It made no sound at all, and we could see it real plain. And that's so I started loading my camera because I was in photography for the DA and I thought this would make an amazing shot because not only does it look like we're seeing the inside of the thing, Because if I could get like several shots in stereo, maybe I could sort of improve you if I exist there's something I couldn't you know. I thought I could get a wonderful picture. Well that's when the truck driver came up just when I was ready to get the picture and started asking me what are you doing? And interrupted, Well, he laughed, and I had missed a real good picture. And the thing went over the airport and it started circling and it would blink twice going north, and then from north to south it goes so fast you couldn't see it. And then I wanted to get the picture, but I was afraid of lens flares because I was on a freeway, and so I ran up a hill beside the car, and I got a picture. And it took me a long time to understand the picture later, but I wrote that up and published in a scientific paper. And what I thought was was that this object had was shining light that wasn't in the visible range, and I had evidence for that. But anyway, then the um, like I said, the truck driver chased us, and then after I got rid of the truck, dro drove on back up. The object started going northwest and I was trying to follow it, and I went past that light in the woods again in the side of the car lit up in green again, and finally I was just on this real old bad gravel road that was had all kinds of potholes, and the houses were miles apart and everything, and I couldn't catch up with the thing, and finally I just gave up and turned around and came back. And then the next night I went back to Washington and I had a poltergeist experienced that night, and so that was it was a very long UFOX experience. Okay, Well, if you think I'm going to let you get away without telling your polter geist story, you're wrong. I'm gonna have to hear that too. Well. I was in science and I never heard a polter geist, and I didn't know anything about it. But that night I went to bed and it was dark, and I kept hearing something like a man with shoes on walking in the room, and he'd be someplace and walk a few steps and stop and it would be someplace else. There was a little bit of light coming through the window from street lights, and I couldn't see anybody, and if he got close to the bed, i'd try to feel it, and I was terrified, but I went to sleep. Then the alarm went off and I thought it was morning. I got up and I was gonna fixed breakfast, and I realized it was dark. I hoped at the time, and it was one thirty and so Anyway, I had this alarm clock with a broken off knob, and I couldn't turn it to adjust it very well. I just if I did it by hand, I did it with just plus they're minus fifteen minutes or something. I usually used the players to do it, and so anyway, I tried to adjust it to the time i'd get up, and I was terrified, and I went back to sleep, and the alarm went off again, and each time I turned on the light and it was like a hundred bulb and it was two thirty right on the dot with a light. I went back to sleep. I think I put a chair against the door, which wouldn't have done any good if I was searing somebody in the room anyway, And it went off at two thirty three thirty four thirty, I think five or thirty. And I was very seriously worried because I didn't know what was going on, and I had this high security clearance. And here the slightest bit crazy, you're out of your job. And I thought, you know, if I'm going if I went crazy, well I'd lose my job and I'd be out, you know, with a cup on the road or something. Um begging and so I was trying to figure out how to hot disguise insanity it work, and how to not talk to anybody. So um then for some reason, my toothpurst just flill across the room and hit the wall. Then I got up and went to work, and everything was normal the rest of my life. So I'm poulter Geist. And then I found out later that people to have UFO experiences sometimes has polter Geist experiences at the same time, so pretty amazing, And that was one of the questions that I had. I had what I guess I would call a poulter Geist experience. I've never really figured out. It was something that made things happen in a house that I was cleaning out, you know, after picking things up for an auction, that things actually really did happen. I actually witnessed them. But I hadn't had a UFO experience until you know, many years after, you know, twenty years after or something like that. But you know, that was one of the questions that just popped up in the chat, was if you thought there may be a connection there. I do want to let everyone know that you can call in and ask our guests a question. That phone numbers up on the screen eight five five four seven two five four eighty three and bill skywalk watchers standing by to screen your call. So call in if you like and ask our guests a question. So obviously you know that happened the same night. That is totally bizarre. But I want to talk to you. How did you handle this thing happening. You had this high position job, high security, and obviously you didn't talk about it at work, But did you talk about it to friends or family members beside your sister or did you think about reporting it? I thought about reporting it, and I looked up I didn't know anything about UFOs. Then I looked at UFO and the phone director and found a number to call for UFOs. It was Niecap, I found out later, and I went to a pay phone and reported it. But I didn't give my name or anything because I was afraid of you know, it might get back to the DA. So I didn't want any information. And it turned out that's probably smart because like I think you said, maybe Niecap had something to do with the CIA, and so I reported it, but I didn't give my name, so it wouldn't have beneficial reporter or anything. But Another thing funny that happened was is that I was pretty upset about it. And of course I didn't say I see UFOs at work, but I just sometimes around, you know. A little bit later, I was in air order battle and we were identifying airplanes and I just mentioned something about, oh, I read something about UFOs in the paper or something, and I thought everybody'd start harassing me immediately, and they didn't. My two supervisors said that they had reported a UFO on our classified film and they had reported to their supervisor, and they showed it to me and I saw and they said their supervisor had told him that it was a spot on the film, and it obviously wasn't because it was on two different photographs, so the spot on the film. But they said that their supervisors gave them this real funny answer that it was a spot on the film and nothing. And they were both really surprised about that, and I sprised that they were that open minded, right, I mean, that's actually good to hear. We have we have a caller. We have pan on hold from Massachusetts. Can you are alive on the air. Welcome to the show, Thank you, and it's a fascinating show. And thank you doctor Scott for this UM show tonight. And I think it's a fascinating case, Pescaluga case. My question is, it's really weird how it's a very believable case. They had a secret recording and the police were interviewing them. It's just strange how those creatures that brought them, the robotic like creatures, never show up again in any other encounters. And that always blows my mind because it's a very credible case and then it's never seen again. What's your opinion on that, Well, I they're not um saying something that agrees with the media, because if they did, they'd probably describe what everybody else describes. So it makes me think more than ever that they're sincere because they have a nerve to describe something different. And you know, I sort of wonder about mind control. All these people see all kinds of different things and they say, well, these are different species and things. But it may be that whatever it is that they put these pictures in their minds, in people's minds of what they might look like. That's an interesting thought. Anything else can very much No, that was it. I just want to because that was a really you know it's such a very fascinating case and very believable, and it just it was just strange. Always you know, usually people say, oh, you see the great aliens and big eyes and repeats, and then this very very very incredible case and then the creatures never appear again. So that's all. I have a great show. Thanks, thank you, thank you. That is a really good point point also for perhaps mind control. And by the way, the line is open eight five five four seven two five forty three. It's really fascinating. It makes me wonder about your mind control thing because in this particular case, you know, we have two people describing two completely different beings. You know, A Calvin didn't remember those cones on the head at all for the robotic ones, you know it did. I think he said something about them looking like they had one almost like a a single leg or like their two legs were joined together, you know, and not not bipetal, but also didn't move their legs. They just kind of hovered. But it is makes you wonder why so many times you do here that people, even though there's having the same experience, they remember things completely differently. Well, I think, um, if if somebody remembered exactly the same thing. I think it would be suspicious because I think, you know, you remember things a little bit different. I mean, like a few Um, I saw a car accident. The next day, you might remember exactly what happened. The next month, you might remember a car accident, and you know, a year later you'd remember something about it. But um, you'd remember less details. But you still might remember a car accident. You might remember the colors and things like that years later. UM. So I think there's value in writing down whatever happened real fast. And in that case, they did, they were they were investigated instantly, um, and so that was really good. But um, I don't think. I don't think Calvin wrote or drew a picture of what he saw, not right away. I know Hickson did, but not not Calvin. I don't believe. So. I mean, I can ask him that question the next time I speak with him, But I'm not sure about that. Well. I think, um, like he didn't want to say anything about it for many, many, many years, and like lots of people want him to be famous, like he could be world famous right then, and he just calmed up for you know, the next forty fifty years until he finally I interviewed his wife and she said he didn't talk about it until he started writing the book, and that's because she was after him and Philip Mantel was and he trusted both of them, but that he didn't want to say anything about it for a long time, right right, I was. I was thrilled when he said he would actually talk about it for the first time on this show, you know. So that was pretty exciting, and I was really thrilled that I say it again. I said it earlier that I think Philip Mantell has done a wonderful job taking really good care of him, and so have you, and between both of you brought it out living in his wife. Yeah yeah, she's very hard. Yeah yeah. So one of the things I thought about asking you about. The line's still open if anyone would like to call again. We could take several calls, but if you'd like to call, we will keep the lines open right up until about five minutes before the end of the show. So one of the questions I wanted to ask you is when the topic came up earlier today when we were talking about possible missing time, and what do you think of that phenomenon. Do you think I mean, so many people have seemed to report it that they have missing time, and you know, do you think that is more like a ps PTST type of thing or what do you think that might be about. Well, like Calvin apparently didn't want to talk about for one reason because he was afraid the beings that come back and getting But it seems more like the people might have been sort of put into trance or something told not to remember it, but then eventually they do. But I wouldn't know why it. The whole thing just seems funny, and in a lot of cases, time seems really funny too. Yes, there will sometimes like people will say it's like everything stopped and everything just stopped, and then they had this abduction experience and then they were back where they were just like a movie and the whole thing could stop and they were removed and are abducted, and then they're put back into the same movie or something, and there's missing Yeah, there's missing time, like they've forgot something and hours that you don't that you don't remember. But in other cases they will report that everything stopped, you know, they were watching people and all the cards and everything stopped and then came back to reality. And that's another part of the missing time, which is mysterious. It is, it is really very interesting. And that the thing about you know, the time, whole time thing, you know, it could possibly have something to do with how they get here and go away too. I mean, that's these are all possibilities. I have no idea. We have a couple of people lined up on the phone. We have Dave calling right now from Pennsylvania. Dave of your Life on the air now, Thank you, Hi, a great show. I've been fascinated with the Pascagoula case for a long time, ever since I first read about it back in the seventies, and with renewed interest after the New York Times article. It seems to have given a boost to looking into the phenomenon. And my question is, has academia in general in mass taken a good look at this phenomenon and tried to get to the bottom of it. Maybe they haven't. I'm just not aware. So that's my question. What has academia done in studying this phenomenon if anything? And I'm going to hang up so I can listen to the response. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye. All right, thank you, David. Where are your thoughts on that? I don't think they've done much, and I think that maybe they'll start now because it's a little more open with you know, sixty minutes in the government saying something could be going on all that, which makes it a little more official than it ever had been before the government. In nineteen forty seven, when the UFOs first started, there was projects signed, and the government took it seriously and considered, maybe this is phenomena, is extraterrest real and something we don't understand above us. Then projects signed, turning the Project grub I mean, who are they both? Who are they grudge? I'm sorry? Yeah, where they debunked everything, and then it turned in Project Blue Book, which also debunked everything, and then Project Bluebook quit. Well, now we're back to like we were in nineteen forty seven when they first began taking objective look at it, and we've gone to this big cycle of debunking and debunking, and it seems like maybe we're way back to where we were in the beginning. Except in the beginning, I think they were doing a more serious studying they are now. But some people are doing a serious studying. Yes, yes we have. We have Rick on from Texas director we were alive on the air. Yes, thank you. Yeah. I like to ask her about the doctor Alan J. Heenek. What information did he have from this and also is there any notes that left his son about the Pascagoula Inciday. We're still looking into that. Um. Philip just gave me some information from a night captain I'm reading now that included letters to doctor Heinick. Um I published in my UM and my my recent book before this, UM, some of doctor Henick's letters that were written in Longhand that he um. But somebody gave to me. But she said she didn't know anything about She was a good friend of his and but she didn't know anything about what he knew about Passagoula. So UM, I'm just reading now some of the and it wasn't about Passagoula though it was mainly about the um Um flap of nineteen seventy three. But he talked to the two men right afterwards. He was right there on the spot soon afterwards, and discussed it with him, and he believed him and said they were, you know, honorable people who were honest, And he believed him. He didn't know what UFOs are and the way else does either. Yeah, a great, great story. I was talking with Paul Heinick and Calvin together. This was out in Phoenix a few years ago, and Paul remembered as a little kid coming in from playing I think it was soccer or something like that outside the phone ringing, it rang all the time. He came in and Calvin was on the phone to talk to his dad, Jay Aln. Heinick and Calvin remembers writing and they had a chalkboard in the kitchen where he wrote down his name, phone number, and then Calvin. Actually they all met the family. I think Calvin came there at one time or something like that, but he met him, you know, a year or so later. I believe I may have that wrong, but something along those lines. But it was interesting to hear Paul Heineck's take on that particular case. Yeah, but doctor Heineck got down there just real fast and question right after it happened. Now, when when Calvin went into more or less hiding, did he did he hide from those type of people as well, or was it basically just the press at that time? Well, he was besieged by the press at work. Um he and Charlie went to work the next day and the press was just all over him so much. Their employers said to go home home, and he lost his job and had to get another job on account of and the pressage is falling him, hounding him all through his life, and he wanted to live a normal life. He wanted to get married and have kids and things. He didn't want to be a weird UFO person. And I think he kind of hid himself and used other names and things like that when he signed things. And what finally brought to a head was that he and his wife went to a funeral and they used the real name and people came up and started in a friendly way asking what happened. And then his wife said it's time to start talking about this, and that's when you know, he started coming out of it. But he just didn't want anything to do with it. You know. Maybe a lot more happened to him when he was on boarders, something they didn't know about, but it's very very traumatic for him. Wreck I'm so sorry I had you on mute. You would try to say something. Yes, I'm fascinated in doctor Alan jay Hinak and him following up or any information that he did to further his investigation by you know, I understand that they both went to an Air Force base to be questioned and all that did Alan jay Hinak questioned the Air Force on their information from those two men and also or their hidden notes from doctor Alan jay Hienack, you know, more information from what they've been told. I think Philip is trying to find it, and he's asked a number of people and he hasn't so far as I know, he hasn't received anything. And I had My last book was from Jenny Seideman, who was a good friend of m. Heiniche, and I asked her the same thing, do you have more information from Heiniche? And she didn't, And so Philip, I think it's still trying to find out. Well. Interesting, Hey Ken, thank you very much for the call. And this is Rick. I'm Rick. Oh I'm sorry I got I got people's names mixed up. Sorry about that, Rick, Thank you very much for the call. Great program. I'll watch you and listen to good Luck for finding more information and exposing on what you're doing. Thank you. Well, he's trying to Philip is trying is making a lot of effort to try to find out and we're not getting any employees. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, we are right at the end of our show. Now I can't believe. It kind of went by pretty fast. And your book, I do haven't in the show notes. Anyone can see the link down there to it, and that should be a fascinating, fascinating read. And do you think there's more we have just a minute here. Is there more to come out about this or do you think it's pretty much expended? Well, a lot of my book was on the sound, and we didn't talk much about that or at all. Sorry about that maybe, now, Okay, UFOs are sort of noted for not having many witnesses and things. Well, this sound was heard over a huge area by all kinds of witnesses, but it's never been explained. And I used a lot of information from the nance and things like that to try to explore mathematically and everything. And it's a pretty mysterious sound and it had a lot of witnesses, happened at the same time as a passive good thing. It was pretty interesting and unexplained. Still, all right, well, we are at the end of our time. Thank you so much, it's been a real pleasure as always, thank you all right, you take care, all right everyone. So that's it for our show this evening. Thanks so much for being on board and Chris Pittman next week should be a great show and thanks so much, and remember, as always, keep your eyes to the sky.