Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all
audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Is there anything you would want to tell
her or anyone else? Or did you burn her body? No? I
have no idea of it. You don't know how she ended up burned.
Hi. This is Sword and Scale season eleven, episode twudred sixty one,
a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. Thank you for joining
us this week. We have a lot to tell you about. First of
all, Swordan Scale Television premieres very very very soon, if not already,
you can watch right now if you go to Swordanscale dot com and a click
watch now. It's it's not that hard. But just so that you know,
we are still making lots of improvements to the app and the website,
lots of little things, lots of things you've been telling us over and over
again. You know. One of the things we'd like to encourage you to
do is to read more. I think it's important for all of us to
become more educated and read more. So read the comment before you comment,
because someone else may have had, oh I don't know, exactly the same
thought two seconds ago and already expressed it for all to read. Listen,
I'm cranky. I haven't had my coffee yet. Anyway, have you heard
of the store? Go on over to store do Towardskill dot com. We
got all kinds of new merch, all kinds of cool shit. Check it
out if you like murdery stuff with our logo on it. I don't.
I don't know. I don't Why am I even still doing this? Just
go ahead and do whatever you want all the time. I don't care whatever
you want. Really, That's that's all I got to say. Enjoy the
show. You owe me. You owe me for the hundreds of true crime
stories that I've told you over the years. You owe me for the many
hours of entertainment that I've graciously given you. You owe me for all the
hard work I've put into the show. You owe me, And don't you
forget it. I'm sorry. Did that sound a little entitled? If my
sense of entitlement strikes you as unflattering, that's because it is. It's quite
ugly. In fact, a sense of entitlement is a narcissistic personality trait,
and it's pretty obvious. Most people don't like it when someone insists that they
deserve something, when in reality, they don't deserve a damn thing. I
was kidding, by the way, you don't owe me anything. No one
owes anyone anything, generally speaking. But I can admit and acknowledge that I
do carry around a little bit of entitlement. Most of us do. But
we either consciously or subconsciously recognize that it's an unflattering characteristic, so we work
on it. We try to suppress it, or at the very least,
we try to keep it in check. There are some, however, that
have no problem letting their extreme sense of entitlement shine. You've ever watched any
number of Karen videos online, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.
Some of you may have even caught the Karen bug, you know, the
ones perpetually complaining about what they're not getting from a ten dollars optional podcast subscription
in the comment section of every single episode. You know who you are.
Those of us with a slightly more acute sense of self awareness wonder what makes
people act this way. An extreme sense of entitlement can be developed in a
number of ways. One of the most common ways usually relates to how a
person has been treated in the past. When someone or a group of people
are routinely given what they want, they can develop the idea that their wants
are just owed to them. Its common for children to have this mentality,
but they usually grow out of it and begin to understand that life is about
give and take. They learn that, in general, if you want something,
you have to earn it. Unfortunately, not everyone develops this understanding.
Some full ass grown adults hold firm to their sense of entitlement, and when
things that were once handed to them are suddenly taken away, well that's when
they lash out. They get angry. They might scream or yell, they
might get violent. In fact, they might even commit murder. On the
night of January twenty sixth, twenty eighteen, a middle aged woman in Rio
Rancho, New Mexico, was driving home from work. Her commute was one
that she had made many times before, but on this particular night, she
noticed something unusual. While driving along a somewhat well traveled back road, she
saw a smoldering pile of well something that was laid out on the road in
front of her. The pile let off a small cloud of black smoke and
its glowing orange umbers suggested that whatever she was looking at was very recently on
fire. I was coming home. I could see it off to the side,
but I couldn't see what it was at all. When you drove through,
were you able to drive around it or did you? I drove around
it. No, I drove around it. I couldn't see anything because it
was dark. My headlights are very good, but I wasn't going to get
out of my car either. You know, I'm not stupid. But so
I came home and we talked about it for a while, and so I
went to bed, woke up at about ten tinish and said, I'm going
to go up and take a look. The woman drove home, She told
her roommates about what she saw, and then she went to bed. The
next morning, she decided she wanted to take a closer look at what she
had seen the night before. I went up there, and I still didn't
think it was real, and it just did not look real to me.
It was horrible. It looked like what you saw. For me. I
could see the head, I could see the two arms, the face.
It looks like a female. I can tell you that. Now that the
sun was up. The woman returned to what she saw during her commute home,
and she couldn't believe what she discovered. Lying on a burned mattress was
a severely mangled and charred human corpse. Actually, as I was walking away,
I could see the restraints restraints. Yeah, the person was bound with
metal, with wire or something. The arm was broken. I could see
that the mouth looked round like forming an o. The right foot was missing.
It looked like it had been cut off from about here, maybe even
higher. It was creepy. I mean, there's no nice way to put
it. You know, some person lest their life and whoever decided to dump
it on a road that is well traveled. You can tell the roads well
travel why most people would not dump a body on a well traveled road.
This woman had a good question, why would someone dump a body in a
well traveled road? Along with that question, the cops in Rio Rancho were
wondering a few other things too, like who was this dead person, how
did they die? And more importantly, who put them there. Meanwhile,
about twenty miles south, a concerned man in Albuquerque was making a phone call
to nine one one Albuquerque Police operated three four six months. How can I
help you? Yes? This a courage and we're going to have called about
And I also rooms enough for some persons. My sister's house and she's not
here in the modus I was sending office. What's the address where you're out,
sir. Sixty two year old Harry Gandert lived in Albuquerque, and for
the last day or two he'd been trying to reach his sister, Marylyn,
who he knew was pretty reliable when it came to returning his phone calls.
Okay, and I'm sorry, can I get your name one more time?
Ryder Tomas other? And what's your sister's name, Marylyn Ganders? Okay?
How well? Did Okay? Vehicles here and that's how she travels. I
mean, my note that I left yesterday is still in the door. I'm
getting worried now. Okay, I need to make a bitter First we went
inside the house that it was yesterday, So vehicles here. So if he
went with afraid of his Okay, if she was a he, she should
have called him. She was a mother. Room. Okay, Well,
just right light there, I'm going to get an offer make contact with you
shortly. Sixty five year old Marilyn Gandert worked for the US Postal Service for
over thirty years, and according to her co workers, she was very dependable,
a colleague that was a joy to be around, working when Maryland was
just relaxing. That's the best word to use is that she put it ease
to you if you know, things didn't get to her. She didn't sweat
this more stuff. When asked, Harry described a sister as a great person.
In fact, he told police that Marylyn was the perfect sister and that
she was always there for him when he needed her. Harry reported Marylynd missing,
but unfortunately he couldn't direct the Albuquerque Police towards many leads. Marilyn Gander
lived alone and was a solitary person. She mostly kept to herself and didn't
have a lot of close friends. She did, however, have a best
friend. Her name was Nancy Robinson. Nancy worked alongside Marilyn at the post
office for a long time, and over the years the two of them had
to come quite close. How did you know, Marilyn? We were together
in the post office, same station, thinks probably twelve fifteen years years and
then we were friends outside of that, went to Bible study together, spent
time with her and her husband for days. You know that kind of stuff.
Marilyn's husband passed away long before Marilyn went missing. Several years later,
tragedy struck again when Marilyn lost her only child. Marilyn's forty two year old
son, Ryan Bickett, killed himself while playing Russian Roulette. If for some
reason you're not familiar, Russian Roulette is a deadly game of chance where a
person places one bullet and a revolver spins the cylinder, points the muzzle at
their head, and pulls the trigger. You basically have a one in six
chance of killing yourself. In case this isn't obvious, people usually don't play
this game unless they're severely suicidal. In Ryan's case, he was both severely
suicidal and extremely unlucky. Ryan's death effect m J's heartbroke. Of course,
it's your only child she had, you know, Like most mothers, cremated
remains that she wore around her and in She's paid the extra money to bring
the report to her house. She had all the pictures. She would wake
up every morning at a certain time. When he lost his life, it
was a big deal. As expected, the death of her son was devastating
for Marilyn, but the silver lining was that she still had her daughter in
law in Ryan's wife. Ryan's wife was forty three year old Elisa Bickett,
and Marilyn also had a grandchild in Ryan's son. He was twenty year old
Drake Bickett. Marilyn had a big heart. Her interaction with Drake that I
would see she was trying to be grandmotherly with him. Same thing with Elissa.
She looked at Elisa as her daughter. She treated her like her daughter,
much like Harry Gandert. When Marilyn went missing, Nancy was quick to
notice that Marilyn wasn't responding to phone calls or text messages, which was quite
out of character. And so when did you start becoming concerned? Honestly,
I started to get a real bad vibe on Thursday night I called her,
and then I called her later. I couldn't get a hold of her,
and the feeling got worse, worse and worse. And you would text.
When you text Maryland or call Maryland, you get pretty much an immediate response.
Called her on Saturday and said did you go back to work? I
haven't heard from you. I'm concerned, etc. Etc. And then by
the time Sunday morning came. When I woke up six or seven o'clock,
I left the house in my pajamas, in my robe and said, Marylynd,
I'm coming for you, because you just knew something was wrong. After
Marylyn was reported missing, the first place that police went looking was Maryland's home.
The responding officers discovered that Maryland's back door was left wide open, so
they went inside, but there was no sign of Marylyn. The house seemed
undisturbed, but the police did notice something strange. Marilyn's house keys were left
hanging on her front door. Knob who leaves their house without their keys.
The responding officers knew something was wrong, so they decided to visit another house
that Marilyn owned. It was a neighboring property that Marilyn had been renting out
to her daughter in law Alissa. When police arrived at this second house,
they spoke to Alyssa, who was in the process of moving out and was
half expecting Marylyn to pop on by. Yeah. I haven't expected her to
come on, but I didn't think anything of it though. She probably just
you know, like sometimes she gets mad and at even talk to the Marilyn's
brother, her best friend, and her daughter in law were almost always in
regular contact with Maryland, but the three of them told police that they didn't
know where Maryland was. She had seemingly just vanished. Meanwhile, back in
Rio Rancho, a middle aged woman discovered a mangled and smoldering corpse on a
back road. After she told roommates about what she found, one of those
roommates called nine one one, Sanibo County, nine one one, what is
the exact location of the emergency out here? Encino and Northern We think we
found a body out here. It's it's in a road and somebody had put
it on like a mattress or something and burned it. And so it's a
mattress with something burned on the top of it. Yeah, and it looks
like it has boned in it and you can see intestines and guts and I
don't know, it looks like it has a head and hands and arms,
and well, okay, and are you going to be around for officers?
Why care? And I can walk for us up there. After the police
arrived on the scene, they quickly confirmed there was indeed a charred human corpse
lying on a road in Rio Rancho, after which they promptly questioned the people
that reported it, when you got there, what did you There was smoke?
You can tell something bringing I was like, what was that? I
think it's a body? Okay, did you walk up to what you suburning?
Yeah, we're parked, you can go around like but we didn't go
around it. We just backed up point of left too. And we were
there for maybe three minutes of that. Oh really, well, because you
both feel really creeped out, like someone was watching us. Okay, I
really feel like something is needless to say, finding a dead body is a
terrible experience for anyone to have, but in this particular case, and because
of the horrific state of the body, it was especially traumatic for everyone that
happened to witness it. Tell me again what you observed. I'm bad,
bad thing. It was really bad man. But it's important for me to
understand what you saw. Right. That person suffered, bad man, the
suffered bad. What makes you think it's a person? I don't know.
I can't. I could tell that there was a sugar like sticking out and
there was intestine on the other side. It was bad. It's the first
thing I ever saw in my life. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm
sorry you saw it. Man, you get to see with us on how
you do that. I mean tomorrow we'll putting a cross up there, because
that's soul hasterus. It's not under Within a day, the news of this
dead body reached the Albuquerque area and the detectives that were searching for Maryland.
Soon after, the body was identified through dental records and confirmed to be sixty
five year old postal worker Marylyn Gandert. Following that revelation, Albuquerque homicide detectives
went to work and they expected to find out who had brutally murdered this poor
woman, who had dumped the body, who had burned it, and why.
In January of twenty eighteen, the mangled and smoldering corpse of sixty five
year old postal worker Marilyn Gandert was found on a back road in Rio Rancho,
New Mexico. After the body was collected and an autopsy was performed,
the medical examiner and homicide detectives were able to determine what likely happened to Maryland.
Someone had brutally beaten and stabbed her to death after she was dead.
The killer or someone else drove the body to Rio Rancho, dropped a mattress
on the road and put Marylyn on top of it. Then they doused her
in gasoline and lit the body on fire before away. The medical examiner also
determined that there were no signs of sexual trauma to Marilyn's body, but there
were ligature marks on her wrists and ankles, so Marylyn was likely bound either
before or during the murder. When detectives began investigating this homicide, one of
the first things they tried to figure out was where the murder happened. They
examined Marilyn's house, but didn't find any signs of a struggle or any significant
traces of blood. They quickly determined that the murder probably didn't happen at Maryland's
home. Then they set their eyes on another property that Marilyn owed. It
was a neighboring house that Marilyn had been renting out to her daughter in law,
Elissa Bikett, who happened to be in the process of moving out when
Marylynd was first reported missing. Names are first off for investigating for disepurance,
I believe with your mom, we actually want to secure the hours. Okay,
I'm just trying to get all my stuff out there, like all right,
so unfortunately I can't want see what I can. Sorry, I need
to get I have things in there. I literally have everything that I'm taking
to my hotel, and so my parents we understand that, okay, but
at this point we're going to secure the residents. Why okay, we're doing
the search walk, I can rely util Do you have the warrant? Then
I want to get my things out first? Why secure for WALK? I
need to get my fans win. My name is Alissa. Forty three year
old Alyssa Bickett wasn't overly thrilled that a bunch of cops were about to be
invading her home and rifling through all her stuff, but given that she had
no other options, she relented and a search warrant was executed on her home.
After that was being done, Alyssa was informed that Marilyn's body had been
found, and Alyssa was taken to the local police station for questioning. Do
you know why you're here today? They told me because Marilyn died. I
didn't know she died. Okay, so you said that you had heard she
was dead. Yes, okay, how did you hear that? One of
the detectives told me, so it is. It is true that Marilyn is
deceased. Okay, how do you know Marilyn? She's my mother in law,
mother in law. I don't know how to say it. It was
my husband, but he passed away. It's her, it was his mom.
Okay. And when he passed away, you were still married to yes,
okay. Do you and her son what's her son's name, Ryan?
Ryan? How long were you and Ryan married? Twenty three years? Twenty
three years? And how did you pass away? Shut himself in front of
me? Okay, I'm sorry to hear that. How long ago was that?
August twenty fourteen? Again, this wasn't the first horrific tragedy that had
struck this family. Back in twenty fourteen, Alyssa's husband and Marilyn's son,
Ryan Bickett, killed himself while playing Russian Roulette. According to Alyssa, that
suicide happened right in front of her. How is your relationship with Marilyn prior
to that before Ryan committed Okay? I mean and you were married twenty three
years? Wow? Okay? And your relationship was okay with Marylyn. Okay,
and since Ryan has passed away, how is your relationship? I was
okay, I'm just off and on. I just really didn't talk to her
very much after the death. Okay. Any hard of feelings, I guess
you could say about she was about you. How come sometimes she thought I
should have left him because he was very abusive. Oh, then if you
would have left him, you wouldn't know he might not have killed himself.
So maybe a little figure pointing as well. Yeah. Alyssa claim that Marilyn
had some resentment towards her, and Marilyn seemed to believe that if Alyssa wasn't
in Ryan's life, Ryan wouldn't have killed himself. Despite this, Marilyn allowed
Alyssa to remain living in the same house that she and Ryan shared, which
was owned by Marilyn. The only condition that Marilyn had was a reasonable one.
She expected that Alissa pay rent. Unfortunately, Alyssa didn't live up to
her end of the deal, so Marilyn began the process of evicting Alyssa.
When Marilyn was first reported missing, and responding officers went to the house that
Alyssa was renting, Alyssa didn't mention anything about being evicted. She only told
him that she was moving out for detectives. That was kind of a big
red flag. And I didn't work for six years when he was alive.
He didn't let me work, so you know, I got a job right
away, but I sometimes, you know, I wouldn't have a job sometimes,
So okay, yeah, so is it? When I tried to talk
to her and she kind of worked with me, she said she was going
to meet me, and I said, okay, you know whatever, Okay,
who lives at the forty seventy fifteen two of the Ridge with you?
It was Annie Rael. Melissa shared the house she was renting with two people,
her twenty year old son Drake and her close friend, twenty eight year
old Annie Rael. So how did you end up meeting Alyssa? How long
ago was that? We'd be like, it's been over a year over here
probably, And then how did you end up moving in with her? I'm
going through the worst, and she was unhappy, and she kind of offered
and I accepted. Alissa and Annie met in twenty seventeen and became friends.
Before long, Alyssa offered to let Annie live with her in the house she
was renting. While there, Annie met and occasionally interacted with Marilyn gandert if
it was like exciving her chrisiss or one of those she gave us. Well
then ham and like food, like they did get long. Okay, you
know I have seen them get along. According to Annie, the relationship between
Alyssa and Marilyn was on occasion cordial, but on other occasions it was clear
that the relationship was breaking down, mostly because Alyssa wasn't paying rent and because
you know, she wasn't even taking good care of the house anyway. Well,
it seems like Marilyn and Alyssa are having a dispute over the conditions of
the house, maybe some payments, just not really getting along about stuff.
Right. But I went out there while she was getting ready to leave and
just talked to her and was like, Alyssa's trying, she's she's a good
girl, like she does try and she I don't know. I was just
trying to make the peace. It went really well. But I guess she
didn't know who that I was outing. She didn't know it was me.
Did she know that you were staying there? Well? Speaking with detectives.
Alyssa and Nannie seemed to downplay the issues that Marilyn was having with Alyssa in
the house, But according to Marilyn's best friend Nancy, Marilyn was at her
wits end. She had just had with Alissa. She loved Alyssa. Over
the years, she did everything she possibly could for Alyssa, and it was
actually Alissa who was angry with Marylyn. Marilyn supported them entirely for many years,
as opposed to her own so, and then after Ryan died, there
was a period of time where she wanted the whole situation to change. She
was hoping that Alyssa could begin to pair some rent, that kids could work,
something could happen so that they could still live there and she wouldn't have
to be able to support them entirely. Again, Marilynd's expectations were entirely reasonable.
If Alyssa was going to live in Maryland's house, she would have to
pay rent. But apparently Alissa just didn't like that arrangement. Well This's response
was that too okay? Now, because Ryan's not here, You're not going
to take care of us anymore? She said, yeah, I can't,
You know, you have to have some income. You have to help me
here. I want to retire. So as she attempted to make that work
with them, and Alyssa was very unhappy with the fact that she was now
going to have to pay some She tell me about the bits and pieces of
money that would come in, and it never came in like it was supposed
to, and there were promises. Despite her objections, Alyssa did agree to
pay rent, but she never actually lived up to the promise to do so.
On top of that, Alissa did a pretty poor job of taking care
of the house. It looked when I was there, it looked as if
somebody got angry, wasn't or drunk. It was my pressure, drunk,
angry whatever, and just trashed it. You know. People do stuff like
that. They put their fists through the wall, they bring things, and
it didn't look like it had been basically kept up anyway. Finally, after
giving Alissa several opportunities to turn things around, Marilyn decided that Alyssa had run
out of chances and began the process of having a Lisa evicted. Maryland's long
term plan was to eventually sell the house. She had resigned herself that she
was done with the whole thing, tired of putting that emotion out there,
tired of putting the bill. She was done. She was going to sell
this house because she wanted to retire. We work hard at the post office.
So she was just kind of had been done with it. After hearing
about the drama and conflict between Alyssa and Marylyn, Albuquerque homicide detectives felt like
they had a plausible motive for murder, so they questioned Alyssa about the eviction.
So, am I correct by saying that eventually you guys were evicted?
Yes? How did that come about? Because we were paying? She just
said, And I didn't go to court, I just because I knew I
didn't want to. There was nothing to argue about. Did she actually take
it to court? Like, oh, okay, and you didn't show up,
you know, because I knew what's there? Argue? I mean,
what am I going to go say? I know I'm not paying rent,
you know, so I'm just let it go. And you know, I
mean, but I did ask her, you know, maybe we can work
this out still, and she said no, And I said, okay,
you know, how did you feel about her evicting you? I was a
little upset, but then I came to terms with it. I was like,
my husband died here. You know, my son doesn't get it's not
good for him. It's not good for his mental So but it's not like,
I mean I don't hate her. I just you know, I don't
I mean, never tell her out, you know, I mean, none
of us would. We were just like, let's just go, you know.
According to Alyssa, the eviction process was as cordial as it could possibly
be, and Alyssa's friend Annie echoed that claim. Oh, it's about through
to her that we're just we are trying to get out. We're not trying
to be in a brawl. We're not trying to destroyer in her house.
We want to leave in peace on good terms. Was you going to understand
how those terms were starting to happen? Like good? Yes? Okay,
yeah. Alyssa and Annie admitted that they weren't happy about being evicted, but
they claimed that they accepted it and were willing to just move on. So
they began the process of moving out. But that process wasn't easy because Marilyn
changed the locks on the doors. How are you now getting back into the
house? Would come Anita said, oh okay, she had a key.
Yeah, oh says okay, so the locks are changed. Marylyn has the
key. And then when you guys are packing your stuff, Maryland conjured here
come inside. So everything was going okay, yes, okay. The court
filings and eviction notice granted Alyssa three days to move her things out of the
house. Out of the concern that the house might be further damaged, Marilyn
decided that Alissa could only move her stuff out while Marylyn was there. She
wanted to oversee what was going on so they wouldn't cause a bunch of damage
to this house that she needed to sell eventually, So she decided to take
off work so that she could watch everything and make sure the move out process
was, you know, going well. Yeah. According to Alyssa, Marilyn
eventually decided that she didn't need to keep an eye on things for some reason,
and so Marylyn you were get along and she was like, you know,
I noticed you, and I said I'm not going to get to sun
today, and I know, you know, She's like, yeah, few
days or whatever, get so that, you know, they said get out.
She's like, but I would work on Monday. I took off this
week, so I'm going to take the weekend. I want you to come
and get to key tomorrow. I'm going to let you, guys just hang
help me to you know, like not hang up, but you know I
want to relax. You guys, go ahead. And and so that was
aversation you had. On Friday. Alyssa claimed that on the day before Marylyn
was reported missing, Marylyn gave her the new house keys so that Alyssa could
finish moving out. I'm not sure why anyone in their right mind would give
someone that they are actually in the process of evicting a set of the new
house keys to the new locks they've just installed. It kinda makes no sense
whatsoever. But I'm sure you knew that already. Alissa even had a text
exchange with Marylyn to show detectives and back up this claim. But again,
Marylynd's friend Nancy contradicted what Alyssa told the police. When Nancy was shown the
text messages between Alyssa and Marylyn, she knew it didn't make any sense come
get the key on Friday. That is so not Maryland. That's somebody to
see from Marylyn's follow needless to say, the story that Alssa told police was
pretty suspicious. Why would Marilyn go through all the trouble of filing court paperwork,
changing the locks, taking time off of work, and then just allow
Alissa to have free access to the house. It made zero sense. And
because of that, the homicide detectives began to push back on Alyssa's story.
Marilyn didn't allow you guys in the house without her present at the beginning,
Yes, and it was because she thought we were going to damage the house.
Okay, So it's just kind of odd to me that all of a
sudden she would how she likes to lie, and then she would go missing.
Well, I don't know, you know, all of a sudden you
had to keyse yes because she gave it to me. Not according to the
friends that we spoke to. Not according to Harry. They all stated that
she was not going to allow you guys in that home. He disgusted.
She discussed said that she would naturally. Alyssa maintained that Marilyn had given her
the house keys and permission to go into the house without being supervised, unfortunately
for her. As detectives began asking for details about how Alyssa got those house
keys, her story started to bullshit breakdown. I messaged her on Saturday morning
and said, I'm on my way. It was about night. I said,
well, either about an hour and I went picked up the key.
OK. So I just went in and started packing, and then Annie Andre
came and you know, we're loading up and stuff, and her brother,
Marilyn's brother Harry, came to the house. Song yeah, and asked if
I had on Saturday and asked if I had seen Marylyn. When when the
last time was? And I said about ten this morning. I went picked
up the key. Alissa claimed that the last time she saw Marylyn was on
Saturday morning, when Marilyn gave her the house keys. But police, you
that couldn't be because by Saturday morning, Marilyn was already dead. The woman
who saw Marylyn's body on the back road in Rio Rancho had spotted it on
Friday night during her commute home. Melissa Bickett was either lying or she'd gotten
her days mixed up. Of course, she claimed the latter when her impossible
story was pointed out to her, I mean, I'm confused. I don't
want to talk anymore. I don't want to even be here. How you're
sorry because she's gone and I didn't know this, you know, and I'm
sorry. It's like and then I'm here being accused of I don't even know
what we need to get down to me. And I mean, it's simply
because I can't think right now, and it's not unpaired. I probably will
say things that I don't remember, you know. And I know Friday was
the last time I didn't hear, but I've seen her in that robe,
and I think I was just in my head fully making that I saw her
that morning, Okay, because I did see her Friday and that was the
last time I saw her. Alissa changed her story. Now, the last
time she saw Marylyn was on Friday, not Saturday. Okay. Fair enough.
Being questioned by the police about the death of a family member is a
high stress situation. It's entirely possible that Alyssa confused Friday for Saturday. But
there was something else that Alyssa could not explain, namely the large amount of
blood the cops found in her house. Would there be any reason that we
will find Marylyn's blood in Annie's room, I don't know. No, there
would be no reason I don't know. Is there going to be any reason
if we pull that carpet up in that house there's going to be any of
Marilyn's blood on the carpet on me? I don't know. That should just
be a yes or no, that's not there shouldn't be any Okay, well
there is. Okay, So you're the renter of the home, if you
were the last person in the home, so that needs to be explained.
I don't know. Why is there blood on the walls of that house in
the carpet and Annie's you have no answer? Does not seem a little suspicious.
I don't know. I have Well, I haven't done anything. I
don't know of anybody doing anything. So we haven't done anything to her.
Who cleaned up the blood in the hallway, You guys didn't do a very
good job on the walls, because there's still bloods better on the walls,
very small, But she didn't do a very good job because we were able
to locate it. Eventually, the detectives made things very clear for Alyssa.
They were trying to solve a murder case. It was a murder that almost
certainly happened in the home where Alyssa was living, and they knew that Alissa
was lying them. So you've told Detective Brown that the last time you saw
her was on Saturday mornings time. I lied because I wanted to see her
that morning and I didn't. Okay, No, you're lying now because you
know that we caught you in a lot. But I did nothing to her.
I did nothing to her. Maybe you didn't, but I don't.
Well she's deceased. I'm sorry. Okay, how are your kids going to
feel when you would have trouble or promises of their grandfather? But I didn't
do it, so I will if I didn't. Okay, Well, if
these things, you didn't do it, I don't know. It was in
the residence that you're living, and none of us you have waiting together,
none of us did it. So now i'm talking anymore. And you said
I had that right, you do have that, So I will get an
attorney. After Alyssa was confronted with her lies and the blood in her house,
she asked for a lawyer, which effectively shut down this interview, but
the cops weren't done asking questions. Next, they turned to Alyssa's son,
Drake, who having recently been evicted from his mom's home, was now living
in a daze in hotel room with his girlfriend. Detectives met with Drake at
the hotel and asked him about the last time he saw his grandmother. Drake
explained that he last saw Marilyn the day before she was reported missing, and
when he saw her, she was parked outside his house. Says Annie and
Alyssa were busy moving things out of the home. Annie and my mom and
my grandma were there, and then I just showed up with Nicky in the
afternoon. I don't know exactly what's on. I'd say one pm, okay,
one pm, me and Nicky go to the hotel because he says,
hey, your mom and Annie mee hell at movie so and I was like,
okay, well, then I'll go there. And then we drove there
and then I go in to help him, and then my mom was like,
oh, your grandma's kicking us out, and I was like, oh
why because we don't have money for this place. And then I was like,
okay, we'll go talk to her and then I'll help you guys move
stuff out. So now I went out to the car and was like,
yo, are you kicking this out at what And she was like yeah,
And I was like, okay, well let me get this stuff out and
then I'm staying at a hotel. I just wanted to let you know that.
She was like okay, by how did they make her mom feel?
Oh? She was pretty upset. Yeah, she was really upset. What'd
she try? She She's just like, I don't know where I'm going to
stay and stuff like that. But I like, we told her that she
stay at hotels with us, yeah, until we got a place. According
to Drake, after he helped his mom and Annie move a few things out,
he left. As he was leaving, he saw that Marylyn was still
parked outside the house. And then Friday, when you left, where was
Grandma still there? Still there? She was still there? And then we
left, where was her car parked out from? And what did your mom
and Annie do when you left? Talk to him? They were just no,
I was like, I'm leaving, and then they were like, okay,
well, well we gotta leaves into We're gonna put stuff in the stores
and then we'll meet you at the hotel. I was like, all right,
I'll see you guys at okay. And then when did you see your
mom and Annie again? Whatever you read down town, did they say anything
too about anything that happened. No, I didn't think that there was anything
that had happened. You didn't know that your grandma was missing? No,
I had no idea. I had seen her those two days and then that
was it as far as Drake knew. When he left the house that day,
his mom, his grandma, and Annie were still there and everyone was
still alive and breathing. Sadly, detectives had some bad news for Drake.
Your grandma. We found her, but she's dead where well, we believe
that it's suspicious. Okay, we think so someone killed her. Wait and
I'm really sorry. Okay, how does that make you feel? What it
makes you feel? Sad? Very sad? So she's murdered or life is
she? She's just that someone murder her. So now telling you that,
knowing that, is there anything now that you think you may have seen or
heard that you think? Okay, that's kind of out of the ordinary.
Something that I saw or someone that I talked to, or a conversation.
I've never know. I haven't heard or seen anything. After Drake was made
aware of the situation, detectives further explained that Alicia's story just wasn't adding up.
In other words, it was looking like Drake's mom had something to do
with the murder. Yeah, and I can tell you that mom's story isn't
matching up with your story or a key story and with yeah your mom,
Yeah, she's fine, she's being kicking true now and I believe there's a
again at a time that you guys aren't with them. So as I was
asking, when they came back, was there anything that was like awkward that
you noticed. No. According to Drake, when he met back up with
his mom and Annie, he didn't notice anything strange or suspicious to him.
Aside from the fact that they had all just been evicted from their house and
essentially had nowhere to live, everything seemed finn Essentially, Drake was either unwilling
or unable to give the police any new information, but this wasn't the last
time that Drake would speak to cops. During the second interview with the detective,
Drake made a startling admission like I'm gonna tell you the honesty. My
grandmother said, I'm too old, Will you please kill me? Do you
remember when she told you that m She told me, like a couple of
days to several days as I stayed with her, I was there and then
she would be like depressed. You know, so you're saying that at some
point your grandma asked you to kill her? Like she was like, yeah,
I get real tired at night and like I'm I want to die,
you know? So did you do that for her? Yeah. At this
point, detectives were extremely confident in their theory that Alyssa and Annie were involved
in murdering Marilyn Gander, But now Melissa's twenty year old son, Drake,
was taking soul responsibility for it. Perhaps he was just trying to protect his
mom from being charged with murder no noble. After Drake made this admission,
he was arrested, but the investigation didn't stop there. The detectives remained determined
to find out the truth, and eventually that truth came out. It turned
out that it wasn't just Alissa that killed Marilyn and burned her body. It
wasn't just Annie or Drake either. Marilyn Gandered was murdered by all three of
them. In June of twenty eighteen, twenty year old Drake Bickett confessed to
Albuquerque homicide detectives that he brutally murdered his own grandmother, sixty five year old
Marilyn Ganderd. According to Drake, his grandmother asked him to kill her,
and he graciously carried out her wishes, just like any decent grandson would.
So I was just like respect because I can understand. I don't know if
you guys can understand, but I expect you guys to be able to understand.
If an old woman is like old in having to work for her children,
right, then I'll do where she wants, you know, like,
how did you do it? Just essentially, that's it. That's all the
information without a lawyer or a public defender I would like to share. Okay,
So you don't want to talk anymore after that? Okay. After Drake
gave his confession, he was carted off to jail and did the standard purp
walk. This gave the local media an opportunity to put a camera in microphone
in his face. Did you have anything to do with her death? Oh?
Yes, she asked me to kill her. So she asked you to
kill her. How did you do it? I'm not gonna I don't know.
You don't know why. She mentioned that she was old, tired,
so she wanted you to kill her. Did you burn her body? No?
I have no idea. You don't know how she ended up burned.
Is there anything you would want to tell her or anyone else? Okay.
Drake told the police and the media that he murdered his grandmother, but he
was unwilling to provide any details about how he did it how her body ended
up being burned on a back road in Rio Rancho. Needless to say,
the police knew that there was a lot more to this story. In fact,
they didn't buy Drake's claim that Marilyn wanted to be killed. They believed
that Drake's mom, Melissa Bickett, and her friend Annie Rayal were responsible for
the murder. When Alyssa was questioned and the detectives pointed out inconsistencies in her
story, she promptly asked for an attorney, and her interview came to an
end. Annie, on the other hand, did a lot more talking.
I feel like you guys are doing this because you feel like we did something
to Marly. Yes, we are investigating all homicides. Yeah, okay,
and I just love why Marylyn was murdered without a doubt or we know that.
Okay, evidence has been collected through a lot of it is pointing towards
you and Alyssa. So you have one opportunity to give us society your side
of the story. I'm telling you we didn't do anything. I am telling
you that, Okay. One of the main issues with Alyssa and Nannie's denials
was that Marylyn did not give them permission to enter the house they were being
evicted from unless Marylyn was there yet. Alissa had the keys to the house
when the cops first questioned her. She was there alone without Maryland. You
have not been permitted into that residence without Marilyn being there. Is that correct
me? Specifically, I don't anybody. She's the only one that has the
keys. The keys, he right, So when did she obtain those keys?
I don't know if she got the keys. I don't know that.
So well, she has the keys, you said, Lissa said she got
the keys. She says she talked to Marilyn. She's that she Marilyn is
giving us more time. That's what I was told, And I don't care
to ask questions. You don't think it's important, you know. All of
that's important is that we need to get their stuff out and clean the house.
That's what's important to me. The cops knew, or at least strongly
suspected, that Annie was lying, and perhaps the most telling thing about her
interview was that she clearly wasn't taking the situation seriously. Don't talk to me,
you know, don't talk to you. Yes, I don't know how.
I haven't treated you like they're stupid. I'm getting very bad like because
I'm getting upset that you expect me not to lie to you, but you're
gonna sit over there and lie to me. I don't appreciate that you feel
that way because I'm explaining to you my situation. I don't know. I
don't know what to the Did you realize you're looking at be in charge with
the homicide? Does that not compute with you? And I'm trying my heart
to you that I to get it out of that. I get it,
okay, you obviously don't. Okay, you're Seneca riling and laughing, jopping
because I know that we're going to be out of this fine because we have
done nothing wrong here, any feigned confidence, but the confidence was slowly broken
down as detectives started introducing physical evidence into the conversation. Annie owned and drove
a large pickup truck, which was perfect for transporting a dead body from Albuquerque
to Rio Rancho. As coincidence would have it, surveillance cameras captured Annie's truck
driving through Rio Rancho around the same time that Marilyn's body would have been dumped
there. Do you like to offer oa because you have a nice truck?
I mean, you cannot that show. They literally told me not to travel
on the highway, So why Well, but you can go off road out
there and there's trails and there's roads and that, because only I don't do
that. So why did you guys go out there? Then we went to
Walmart? What what are you asking me? Like? Hey, why did
we all that? Where? Okay? So here we went wrong and beyond
back to the house. Hey, your truck went beyond Walmart and you guys
went west? You a west of answer for something? No? Because Annie's
truck was spotted near where Maryland's body was found, the cops decided to search
it, and Annie seemed pretty confident that they wouldn't find anything incriminating. But
we are going to process the vehicle for any kind of evidence inside the vehicle.
Okay, okay? Is there going to be any reason that Maryland's DNA
is going to be inside that vehicle? Unsurprisingly, the police did find Maryland's
DNA in the bed of Annie's truck, along with a few other things.
Court documents show. Five days later, investigators find blood in the bed of
that truck, along with Maryland's purse, medications, pants, and keys to
her car. Obviously, Alyssa and Annie weren't criminal masterminds. Jesus, these
people couldn't even figure out how to pay their fucking rent. They committed this
murder and then did an absolutely horrible job of covering it up. Not only
did the cops find Maryland's blood in the back of Annie's truck, but they
also found a whole bunch of Maryland's blood in Annie's bedroom. Is there going
to be any reason that a large blood of Maryland's is going to be in
the house? I'm sorry, okay. And if we do locate a lot,
why would you locate any would kim specifically maybe in your bedroom? Mhm?
Okay? And when we do, because we have okay, what's going
to be the answer to the same. You don't know we've been together just
because you've been together, because I mean, you can't commit a crime together,
right, there's blood in your real Okay, how did it get there?
I don't know. Okay, I've never lived in It's a lot.
Yeah, I just I guess I expect people believing the easy. We are
moving out of that place. We're trying to do it in peace. We're
not doing wrong here. You guys see what you need to do. Okay.
When faced with the facts, and he just denied everything, which wasn't
exactly a sound strategy. The physical evidence was just overwhelming and detectives made that
very clear. Unfortunately, all the evidence is pointing towards you. I mean,
if that's how, I don't know what else to say. I can't.
I'm not gonna say that I seen something that I didn't or I was
a part of it, wasn't There's I mean, but there's if you didn't
do something wrong, then you know what happened and you saw it, and
you know who did and you saw part of this. There's absolutely no way.
There's no way Annie that you don't know what happened, and that you
didn't see someone cleaning cleaning up blood. Yes, and then your trust see
that your truck was your truck. You were on traffic cameras where we found
the body. Like, I feel like you need to explain it, Well,
I don't. I can't because I don't. I didn't see anything.
If I'm going to feel this way that you guys are trying to switch it
up on me, I'm going to even talk at this point because I'm telling
you I'm not lying. And they asked you to help me rid of the
body. Despite the evidence. Annie denied any involvement with the murder, but
in the end it didn't matter. The cops had more than enough to put
both Annie and Alyssa behind bars, and they started with Alyssa. And do
you know why you're here today? No? Yeah, okay, So the
reason I brought you down or had you arrested is I have an active Warren
or restaurant for the murder of Maryland. Okay, so that's going to take
a little while and then you'll be booked into the Metropolitan Detention Center. I'm
sorry, Why am I booked for murder? I didn't do it? So
okay, Well that's what the arrestaurarm is for Okay, do you have any
questions for me? At this point, you speak to somebody, a lawyer.
In May of twenty eighteen, Elssa Bickett was officially arrested and charged with
the murder of Marilyn Gander. A short time later, detectives also formally charged
her friend, Annie Rayelle. So, do you know why you're here today?
Okay? So the reason you're here today is I have an active arrest
warrant for you for the murder of Maryland. Okay. So at this point,
you're being charged with an open count of murder, conspiracy to commit murder,
tampering with evidence, and conspiracy to temper with evidence. Okay. Months
later, and perhaps after learning the full extent of the potential consequences they were
facing, both Alissa and Annie decided to confess, though their respective stories didn't
quite match up. According to Alissa, Annie was the primary aggressor and the
one that set Marilyn's murder into motion. So Marilyn, you know, she's
sitting in her car and then she was coming in because she needed to use
a restaurant drink, and it's like, look at my mom, can't this
is our house. Can't we just stay here when study in our own beds?
And she said no, and so he was crying and we left out
the back door. I stayed in my room, and at that point I
did hear Marilyn Yale, and I went out there and Annie's on her back.
She's on the ground. So Marilyn's on the ground in her back.
Oh, she's only in her back. And okay. I tied up her
hands and legs and I helped her put this bag over her head. Do
you remember what you did it with? What you tied her up with.
Yeah, it was like phone cords and stuff like that. Then there's other
one that Annie gets floating around her, and I hear this snaw that I
don't know if it's the corn. I'm just like, I gotta go.
Alissa explained that during an argument with Marilyn about the rent money and eviction,
and he unexpectedly attacked her. Then Alyssa and Annie beat, stabbed, and
suffocated Marilyn to death. After she was dead, they loaded her body into
the back of Annie's truck and drove north toward Rio Rancho. Alyssa admitted that
after they stopped on a somewhat desolate back road, they unloaded a mattress and
placed Marilyn's body on top of it. Then Alyssa poured gasoline on the body
and lit it on fire. For detectives, Alyssa's version of events somewhat aligned
with what they believed happened. This is just my and I think that the
argument ensued over the rent or whatever, and frustration started, and it just
happened. It wasn't planned, it wasn't intentional. Something happened. And whether
it was straight or whether it was whom I actually kind to think of,
shoot, but whoever, Oh shit, look what we just did. It
got out of control. Now we need to get rid of the body.
The detectives believed that the murder was not planned, and that it happened in
a moment of desperation and anger, a moment where you lose control of your
emotions, a moment where you're faced with the weight of the world on your
shoulders and you just snap and do something really, really, really stupid.
And now there's even more consequences facing you. There's even more problems ahead.
Unless you eliminate what you just did, unless you erase it, unless you
erase this person you've assaulted. It can happen so very quickly, and lives
are changed forever. It's an incredible story, but it's too bad that it's
all bullshit according to Annie. That is, you see when Annie decided to
confess, she revealed that the murder was in fact premeditated. And then when
Drake fought there, we all were in a Lista's room getting high. That's
pretty much when oh So like she had brought it up before about Jane Man,
I still didn't think we were going to do it, like, and
Marilyn was coming in. Drake was like, can you just let us stay?
Look at my mom happy? She was like no. Alissa looked at
me and Drake and nodded, And I looked at Drake and he started like
walking behind Marilyn, and I got Marilyn and from behind and took her down.
Annie explained that after she took Marylyn to the ground, Alyssa and her
son Drake helped to tie Marilyn up. Then they wrapped a plastic bag over
Marilyn's head, beat her with a baseball bat, and stabbed her to death.
One major difference in Alissa's and Annie's stories involved Drake. According to Alyssa,
Drake let the house before the murder happened. But in Annie's version,
Annie, who you know, probably doesn't give a shit about Drake, Drake
was the one that finished Marilyn off by slitting her throat. Like mother like
son. I guess the son doesn't fall far from the murderous mother tree or
something like that. I don't know, Maybe I should be a shirt anyway.
Ultimately, the detectives determined that Annie's confession was a more accurate telling of
the events, and that Alyssa was probably trying to protect her son from a
murder conviction. She was unsuccessful in that pursuit. After detectives finalized their investigation
and handed things off to prosecutors, Drake, Alissa, and Annie all faced
murder charges. All three of them decided not to take their respective cases to
trial, and they all pled guilty. Alyssa was sentenced to thirty years in
prison, Drake got twenty six, and Annie was given a reduced sentence of
twelve for her willingness to cooperate. You could say that justice has been served,
but for Maryland's friends and family, and specifically for her brother, that
justice comes as a small consolation. Harry Gandert continues to live with the tragic
loss of his sister and the realization that Marylynd's final moments alive must have been
absolutely horrifying and incredibly painful. She was just a very kind person, and
she didn't deserve anything like this. It's a useless thing that my sister was
killed. I mean, that was for no reason. Actually, Marilyn Gandert
was so brutally murdered by these three people that she knew that she was kind
to in many ways that they probably didn't deserve. The mastermind behind that murder,
if you can even call her that, was Marilyn's daughter in law,
Alyssa Bikett. For most of her life, Alyssa was given a place to
live for free. Her husband and mother in law provided that for her.
But when the time came for Alyssa to provide for herself, she lashed out
and decided to do something truly horrific. Alissa felt entitled, She felt that
Marilyn owed her a home. When Marilyn refused to give Alyssa what she wanted,
Alyssa planned and carried out her murder, and perhaps worst of all,
she made her own son, kill his grandmother, and now he's spending decades
of his life behind bars. Ironically, Alyssa was able to avoid paying rent,
and you and I are the beneficiary of that privilege. Beneficiary or benefactor,
what's the what's the right word for that? Anyway, Alissa has a
you know, respectable, decent place to live now, still for the rest
of her life, still doesn't have to pay rent. For the next thirty
years, she'll have a free roof over her head. She'll be given three
square meals a day, and she won't have to pay for any of it.
Though I doubt her accommodations are what she was hoping for. Who knows,
I mean, I hear prisons these days have free basic cable and even
some restricted Internet access. Doesn't sound quite that bad compared to the nine to
five cubicle life. If you ask me, if Alyssa's fate tells us anything
gives us any sort of lesson whatsoever, it proves that a sense of entitlement
can be a very dangerous thing. As much as we might not want to
admit it, there is at least a little bit of entitlement in all of
us, So try and be sure to keep yours in check. And remember
that nobody owes you anything, not your mother in law, not some true
crime podcast producer, nobody owes you a fucking thing. So if you want
something, you're going to have to do the work. You're gonna have to
go out there and just like in the old days, you're gonna have to
earn it. Oh one more thing before we go. Uh. If you
want to get any of the schnanzzynew merch over at store dot sortnscale dot com,
make sure you go to sortinscale dot com first, log in with your
Plus membership and click the store link on the top of the page so that
you get your discount. It will be automatically applied at checkout as long as
you click that link. All right, that's gonna do it. Until next
time. Stay safe. Hey there, this is Jenny from Tacoma. This
is a message for Gerty Gertie. You are a goddess. I am appalled
to find that people are giving you trouble. For all of you out there
who are know who you are. This is a community of sassholes, not
assholes, so please give reready of break and praiser. All right, thanks
for everything. Have a good day to