1 00:00:05,919 --> 00:00:37,119 Ask What Up? What Up? Everybody? Welcome to another episode of Let's 2 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,920 Ask Paul, the podcast where I, Paul Abernathy, attempt to answer all 3 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:48,000 of your electrical questions submitted through the Paul Abernathy dot com portal. If you 4 00:00:48,039 --> 00:00:52,159 haven't used it yet, it's a free service that's sponsored by Electrical Code Academy 5 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:57,600 Incorporated, and it's a online portal that allows you to submit questions to me 6 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:03,159 in a very simple, easy format and they get routed directly to a special 7 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,200 folder so it doesn't get lost in my email, it doesn't get buried in 8 00:01:07,359 --> 00:01:11,519 all of the BS. That's right, I said it. So look, 9 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:19,120 all you gotta do is go to Paul Abernathy. That's Paul ab er In 10 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,760 at h Y just like it sounds, Paul Abernathy dot com and you can 11 00:01:23,799 --> 00:01:29,719 submit your questions to me and I will answer them either in a podcast like 12 00:01:29,879 --> 00:01:36,319 today, or in an email response or guess what. Starting on June twenty 13 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,079 eighth of twenty twenty three, depending on when you're listening to this podcast, 14 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,840 we have a new live show called fast Tracks Live that's going to be every 15 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:52,680 Wednesday night at seven thirty pm Central Time, So adjust your time zones accordingly, 16 00:01:53,719 --> 00:01:59,400 and I will answer questions on the air. We will do many lessons 17 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,760 each week, a little segment of the code, we'll talk about it, 18 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,239 industry news, giveaways, a whole bunch of stuff. If you want to 19 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,680 see what the new formats actually going to look like, then all you gotta 20 00:02:09,719 --> 00:02:15,879 do is jump on over to Fasttracks System dot com and go click on the 21 00:02:15,879 --> 00:02:19,080 blog. If you click blog, you'll see one of our blogs. I 22 00:02:19,199 --> 00:02:23,840 basically break down how the show is going to be starting on June twenty eighth. 23 00:02:23,879 --> 00:02:27,080 So where can you listen? Well, it's also live, so it's 24 00:02:27,159 --> 00:02:30,199 video. It's going to be on all of our major platforms, YouTube, 25 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:38,199 Rumble, it's going to be on Twitter, It's going to be on Twitch. 26 00:02:38,479 --> 00:02:42,680 It's going to be on Facebook, all of our Facebook pages typically the 27 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,120 at master, the NEC symbol or shortcut we'll take you to the proper page. 28 00:02:47,159 --> 00:02:53,560 But it's also going to be streaming on our fast Tracks Tube website as 29 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,919 well. Okay, so that's pretty cool, all right, So anyway, 30 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,719 a lot of ways. Oh also, I forgot, it's also going to 31 00:03:00,759 --> 00:03:02,919 be on linked In, So for all of you out there that connected with 32 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,800 me, just search for Paul Abernathy. You know what an ugly mug I 33 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:10,879 have. Join me on linked In, subscribe and you can even listen and 34 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:15,879 watch from there as well. Again June twenty eighth, we're going to launch 35 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:22,840 the next edition of our live show. You'll probably remember Electrician Live that we 36 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,560 had for a couple of years. All right, Well we're back at it 37 00:03:25,599 --> 00:03:30,319 again, a new live show focused on the fast track system, but we'll 38 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,719 also be talking and answering questions and doing a bunch of good things. Whole 39 00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:36,919 new look, whole new theme. Everything looks different, okay, whole new 40 00:03:37,039 --> 00:03:42,479 streaming equipment, the whole thing's different. So make sure you bookmark it on 41 00:03:42,639 --> 00:03:47,639 all of your favorite video platforms. Okay. Today's show is also sponsored by 42 00:03:47,639 --> 00:03:53,439 Electrical Code Academy Incorporated. If you do need electrical training, whether it's post 43 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:58,840 licensing, residential, commercial, grounding and bonding, electrical theory, whatever you 44 00:03:58,879 --> 00:04:02,039 want. Maybe even HVAC electricians out there. Hey, how many of you 45 00:04:02,039 --> 00:04:06,520 out there always struggle with the troubleshooting with HVAC systems in the electrical part. 46 00:04:08,199 --> 00:04:12,759 Well, we got a program dedicated just for you, folks, so check 47 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,120 it out over on our website if you want to learn the National Electrical Code 48 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,160 for exam prep, or if you just want to be a more rounded, 49 00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:25,279 knowledgeable electrician, then you're going to check out fast tracks System dot Com. 50 00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:28,480 And under the courses you'll see all of our courses, but you're looking at 51 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:32,160 the black and the plus. Those are our exam prep programs. Oh and 52 00:04:32,199 --> 00:04:36,000 by the way, we have added a budget program out there for those that 53 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:40,519 are like, yeah, I just need a little freshen up before my exam. 54 00:04:41,079 --> 00:04:46,000 Then the budget course is about half the price and you get all the 55 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,639 course material. You don't get the same support, obviously, but now that 56 00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:51,839 we're doing it Wednesday Night Live, then I guess you really do get pretty 57 00:04:51,879 --> 00:04:56,399 good support. So check it out. You don't get all of the exam 58 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,120 questions in that program, then you do in the normal fast Tracks. But 59 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:01,600 again, if you're on a budget, that's one way to look at it. 60 00:05:01,639 --> 00:05:06,399 So just go to fast tracks System and that's tracks t r a X 61 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:14,079 system dot com. Fast track System dot Com. All right, well let's 62 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,519 go on and get into the night's episode. All right, So I have 63 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,279 a question. It was submitted to me and I'm going to read it. 64 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:27,079 It says, Hey, Paul, when we conduct a megaer installation test on 65 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,040 a four hundred and eighty volts system, and of course the wire is rated 66 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:36,839 six hundred volts. Is it safe to use the thousand volts setting or fifty 67 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:42,399 volts setting? And I think he means five hundred volt setting, it said, 68 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,439 thanks in advance. Okay, great question. Now, look, everybody 69 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:51,160 knows I have put out documents. I have been on different other shows and 70 00:05:51,199 --> 00:05:57,959 I talk about MEG testing, and I explain that everybody forces you know, 71 00:05:58,199 --> 00:06:02,959 engineers and everybody forces compliance and wanting to do MEG tests, and ultimately they're 72 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:08,279 going to go to some NITA standard. NITA standard basically you'll say one hundred 73 00:06:08,319 --> 00:06:12,519 mega homes when you're dealing with wire, but you kind of remember that's really 74 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,040 medium voltage type of stuff where you really do have a return path on the 75 00:06:16,079 --> 00:06:19,879 cable assembly. So let let me explain a little bit. So in MEG 76 00:06:19,959 --> 00:06:26,959 testing, you know, you have a megameter and you're you're sending out a 77 00:06:27,079 --> 00:06:32,600 certain level of voltage and you're trying to read back any linkage that you might 78 00:06:32,639 --> 00:06:40,160 give through the maybe stressed out installation or damaged installation or just weak points in 79 00:06:40,199 --> 00:06:43,800 it. I you know, could have been part of production just could have 80 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:48,759 been damaged during an installation. And you know, meging is fine, by 81 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:55,240 the way, MegaR or meging as typically you know, there's a company called 82 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,800 Meger who kind of pioneers a lot of this stuff. But you know it's 83 00:06:58,959 --> 00:07:06,680 megameters and insulation resistance meters things like that. They really aren't as perfect as 84 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,800 everybody thinks they are. Think about it here, let's use a little logic 85 00:07:11,959 --> 00:07:15,600 before I answer this question. Use a little logic. If if I'm going 86 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,040 to be testing a conductor's insulation, So I'm going to connect the lead to 87 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:25,000 the let's just say copper conductor, and I'm going to set it a certain 88 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:30,720 voltage, whether it's five hundred volts or a thousand volts, and I'm going 89 00:07:30,759 --> 00:07:34,839 to put that through that And typically, by the way, the UL standards 90 00:07:35,199 --> 00:07:42,519 for thermal set under forty four or thermoplastic under eighty three, typically they're doing 91 00:07:42,519 --> 00:07:48,000 about five hundred volts. Okay. So anyway, so the thing about it 92 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:54,959 is, if you're everything is insulated, it's pretty hard to get any reliable 93 00:07:54,959 --> 00:07:57,600 readings. Now, you could have some capacity, it's building up. Maybe 94 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:03,319 your unit discharges a new modern units do, some do not old crank style 95 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:07,079 do not, so you'd have to discharge it between tests. But the point 96 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:11,879 is, if everything is insulated, how in the world would you get a 97 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:18,759 real reliable return path to have anything that you can rely on. I mean, 98 00:08:18,839 --> 00:08:22,680 think about it, What am I going to connect it to? Now? 99 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,720 If you have PVC raceway and all your conductors are insulated, and you 100 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:31,080 connect to one of the leads to one of the conductors, and now you 101 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,240 connect the other lead to another conductor, whether they're both insulated, the reality 102 00:08:35,399 --> 00:08:41,919 is you're not going to get any readings unless they're both potentially bad or damaged 103 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:46,120 at the same area. Okay, and you probably could dude, is better 104 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,440 with just a continuity tester, unless, of course they're not touching than that 105 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,639 wouldn't do much good. But the point is to use a meger, you 106 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:56,960 have to what you put in. You got to get something back to the 107 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,399 meter. If it's all insulated, it's kind of pointless. Yeah, you're 108 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:05,080 gonna get some numbers. Okay, you're gonna get something. But is it 109 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,080 reliable or is it just make you feel warm and fuzzy when you see it? 110 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,679 That's probably what it is. It just makes you warm and fuzzy when 111 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,039 you see it. Now, people ask me all the time, what is 112 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:20,240 the lowest level in megs that you would actually accept? And you know what, 113 00:09:20,919 --> 00:09:28,559 I think that when it comes to wire, anything that's over twenty is 114 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,440 probably going to be fine. Twenty megahomes don't always look for gigs, and 115 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,679 you couldn't have multiple conductors in a raceway in one be dramatically lower than the 116 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:41,879 other. That means absolutely nothing. That doesn't mean it's imminent failure. Okay. 117 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,159 So the NITA standard, for example, when it says one hundred megahmes 118 00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:52,480 is not really germane to normal building wire. So at the end of the 119 00:09:52,559 --> 00:10:00,679 day, I had conversations with manufacturers of these installation resistant meters and they basically 120 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,679 told me that their products weren't specifically designed for use with conductors that are all 121 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,840 insulated inside of some type of raceway that is insulated like a PVC. You're 122 00:10:09,879 --> 00:10:15,720 not going to get really reliable readings. You're not. Now if you happen 123 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:20,279 to have a bare equipment ground in there for some reason and you're testing to 124 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:24,080 that, and yeah, you might get some readings if you have insulated conductors, 125 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,320 but you have a metal raceway of some sorts, then yeah, you 126 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:31,440 can get some realistic readings on that. But if everything is insulated, it's 127 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,639 just a crapshoot, to be honest with you. Now, people always ask 128 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:41,840 me about mccable, Can you use the meg tester to test for uh, 129 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:48,600 you know, insulation on an mccable, And reality is no, because the 130 00:10:48,639 --> 00:10:56,720 polymeric material or the flame retarded paper that wraps around the whole assembly does not. 131 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,919 It takes a lot for that to get cross it. And testing that 132 00:11:00,159 --> 00:11:03,519 I did a while back it was as much as four thousand and five thousand 133 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:09,879 volts. And some testing we did on some cables no metallic sheet cable, 134 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:16,799 and we tried to pump some through the bare equipment ground and do testing that 135 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,759 way, and it just was and we damaged some black and damage some white 136 00:11:20,759 --> 00:11:26,080 at certain locations, but there was that paper separator. Normal testing wouldn't detect 137 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:31,200 anything, just acted like it was fine, and you knew it was damaged. 138 00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:35,440 We know because we damaged it. Same thing with the mc cable, 139 00:11:35,519 --> 00:11:41,039 since MC cable typically has a polymeric rap that wraps around all the conductors that 140 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:45,679 are in the assembly. Anything that we're to get out to the armor is 141 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,000 going to be pretty much not going to take place. And I know this 142 00:11:48,039 --> 00:11:50,159 too because we did tests on this as well, damage the hell out of 143 00:11:50,159 --> 00:11:54,799 some conductors, put them in the polymeric polymeric rap like normal, and then 144 00:11:54,840 --> 00:12:00,399 put it back inside of the MC cable and then we just proceeded to flood 145 00:12:00,399 --> 00:12:05,240 it and just could not get it to do anything. So M and we 146 00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:11,080 also did um HI pot testing on that same concept we did. We has 147 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:16,440 obviously higher voltages and you know, in many cases more destructive. UM we 148 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:20,879 did testing on MC and we we had to crank that thing up again four 149 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:26,720 or five thousand just just and it would barely wouldn't wouldn't even make it through 150 00:12:26,759 --> 00:12:28,159 the MC. It wouldn't work for the MC, and it ended up working 151 00:12:28,159 --> 00:12:33,200 for the nomataller sheet cable. But the point is we went from an insulation 152 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,519 resistance test to a high pot test, being more destructive, looking for and 153 00:12:37,759 --> 00:12:43,480 using a lot higher level of current, okay, high level of voltage and 154 00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:48,960 everything associated with it. So at the end of the day, UM I 155 00:12:48,039 --> 00:12:50,159 do have a paper out on it. If you're interested in it, you 156 00:12:50,159 --> 00:12:56,799 can always email me at Paul dot Abernathy at uh fast track system dot com, 157 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,000 or you can just go to our website and used to contact us and 158 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,879 ask me for it. I'll send you a copy of it. And at 159 00:13:03,879 --> 00:13:09,039 the end of the day, if everything is insulated, it's pretty hard to 160 00:13:09,039 --> 00:13:13,320 get any real reliable readings. Let me just put it that way, okay. 161 00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:16,679 And if you call them manufacturers of those machines and you ask them, 162 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,879 say, hey, I got an insulated raceway and I got insulated conductors, 163 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:28,000 Will your megameter? Will your meger work for me? And we're not talking 164 00:13:28,039 --> 00:13:31,759 medium voltage where you have a center core, you have dielectric material, then 165 00:13:31,799 --> 00:13:37,360 you have an outer braiding that's perfect for these machines. And if you fact, 166 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:43,039 if you go look at the megaer document stitching time, you'll notice that 167 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,919 it talks about a cable assemboly with a leadge sheathing on it, and it 168 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,120 shows you the setup, but it does not really show you how to do 169 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,480 that with like building wire in a PVC race way, because it's just not 170 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:58,840 what it's designed for. Yeah. Maybe again, maybe if it's rigid metal 171 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,159 intermediate metal EMT. Okay, you got a chance. There you go. 172 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,639 When everything's insulated, crapshoot. So stop. Also, people want to meg 173 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,519 all the time. When they throw conductors into the earth direct burial US DASH 174 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,600 two for example, and they want to stick one lead on a conductor and 175 00:14:15,639 --> 00:14:18,200 then one lead into the earth and think they're going to get any real readings, 176 00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:22,840 you're not, folks. The same reason we can't use the earth okay, 177 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,919 as an equipment ground, same reason we can't because there's way too much 178 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,559 impedance on it. It's the same reason you can't use the earth in order 179 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,720 to be able to use one of those type of meters. So then if 180 00:14:35,759 --> 00:14:37,200 you're doing it out there, you're doing it to make you feel warm and 181 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,120 fuzzy or an engineers telling you to do it, and you just do it. 182 00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:45,279 But reality is it's it's it's all bs. Now. Look, the 183 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,240 question asks, can you is it safe to put a thousand volts setting? 184 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:54,919 Yes, consider it's industry, it's okay whether it's five hundred volts or whether 185 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:56,519 it's a thousand volts. The only time you have to start worrying is whether 186 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,759 or not it's AC or DC. Okay, you seem more destructive. So, 187 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,960 but in general, thousand volts setting is perfectly fine. Even though the 188 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,519 conductors are rated six hundred volts. You're not going to be doing it long 189 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:18,159 enough that would cause any problems, right, and so again not that big 190 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,320 a deal when it comes to that again, higher voltages, but that's pretty 191 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,720 standard in the industry for us to test it at either thousand volts or five 192 00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:30,480 hundred volts either one. Obviously, if you're using a thousand voltes you get 193 00:15:30,519 --> 00:15:33,000 more pressure, so you really are going to be stressing out that, you 194 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,519 know, if there's any damage to the insulation, provided you have an adequate 195 00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:43,320 return path back to the source. Right, Okay, so Layman's without going 196 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,399 too deep on that, I'll just answer your question. Yes, it's perfectly 197 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:54,759 fine to use a thousand volts setting on your meg, your Mega or your 198 00:15:54,799 --> 00:15:58,000 five hundred volte setting, either one is perfectly going to be fine with six 199 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,840 hundred volt rating conductors not going to be a problem, all right. It's 200 00:16:00,879 --> 00:16:07,080 not enough duration, it's not long enough right to cause any real stress on 201 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,440 that insulation, unless, of course, there's something wrong with it. There 202 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:17,960 you go, Okay, all right, hopefully I answered that question and gave 203 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,879 you a little additional insight to that. Again, if you have any questions, 204 00:16:19,879 --> 00:16:23,000 all you gotta do, let's go to Paul Apernanti dot com and send 205 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,399 them. I'll do my best to give you the information that I can give 206 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,240 you. Okay, until next time, folks, stay safe, God bless, 207 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,720 and again, remember we're going live June twenty eighth, twenty twenty three. 208 00:16:34,919 --> 00:16:40,360 Make sure you subscribe to whatever you're viewing platform you like. And if 209 00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:42,399 you're not a member of fast Tracks Tube, all those videos that we're gonna 210 00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:45,919 be posting up there and the ones that are already up there, dude, 211 00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:48,399 that's a hell of a deal. One hundred and twenty five dollars annually get 212 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,120 you unlimited access. But if you want to get twenty five dollars off, 213 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,399 just use a coupon code two five O F all capitals and that'll get your 214 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,519 additional that'll get you twenty five dollars off the annual subscription. All right, 215 00:17:00,519 --> 00:17:06,880 folks, till next time, Stay safe, God bless and remember send your 216 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:30,960 questions Paul Abernathy dot com. Ask Ask Ask