WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:01:03.439 The the the the the the the the the the the I think the the 2 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:49.920 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 3 00:01:52.879 --> 00:03:00.199 the the do the the the the the the the the the the the the 4 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:58.599 the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the 5 00:04:00.080 --> 00:05:51.920 the the the the the the do why Hello and hello to all of my 6 00:05:53.120 --> 00:06:02.920 beautiful discord listeners. Today I'm wearing a very soft Pastors Cartigan, perhaps something 7 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:09.959 a Calvinists pastor might well, Perhaps someone say Peter mc wilson might well. 8 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:15.800 I'm a humble pastor for the year of twenty twenty four, and that's because 9 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:21.279 I have been so maligned magnant by the Internet for so many years as a 10 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:28.879 mean man. I want to demonstrate to everyone that my ways have changed. 11 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:32.560 I am no longer a mean Internet debate man, but I am, in 12 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:43.160 fact a very humble, pious, praying lover of the Lord Christian. In 13 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:47.959 fact, I might even be the pastor of my own internet church. Perhaps 14 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:54.759 you may all like to join and tithe immediately the maximum amount of tithes possible, 15 00:06:54.879 --> 00:07:02.240 because I'm very pissed, I'm very humble of the loveving, I'm very 16 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:10.839 loving, I love you so much. I'm a pastor on the Internet. 17 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:16.439 We're the card again. It's Clark Griswold style, but it's a card again. 18 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:24.439 I'm either a douchebag professor or very humble piles pastor man like Fdr sitting 19 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:32.279 by the fireside jets helping you to understand the world. In fact, I 20 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:38.680 rolled in here on a wheelchair and it wasn't even necessary. I just did 21 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:46.600 it to feel more humble. I can walk fine. This is the year 22 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:51.319 of love, and don't worry, pies. Pastor man Peter McWilson is here 23 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:57.040 to help you on your journey. Just be sure to put a little extra 24 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:01.079 in the gift box, if you know what I mean. In the tithe 25 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:09.279 plate as it comes around. Brother Hensley in the Mad Chat will be passing 26 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:16.279 the tithe plate around. Feel free. I'm gonna be very hum but to 27 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.040 everybody today, nobody will get their feelings huh, because it is the Western 28 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:30.160 Papal fake Christmas Eve, according to the papal Apostate Inti christ calendar. Merry 29 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:37.399 Christmas to all your Apostate Heltics out there. I wish I could say I 30 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:43.120 truly enjoy the season, but as a pious pastor man, it is my 31 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:56.320 duty to warn you of these paper abominations known as the Western calendar. So 32 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:01.639 is it Christmas Eve? It's Christmas Eve for the millions of heretics out there 33 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:07.519 that I want to help today. Truly, I hope that you will come 34 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:13.480 share your disagreements and so we can find peaceful, fake reconciliation where we pretend 35 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:16.159 to be friends, but we passively, aggressively still hate each other deep down 36 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:26.960 from our hearts. Did you think you were really gonna get Cardigan pastor man? 37 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:43.440 No, you all got trolled. Now you still get me on papal 38 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:52.639 Christmas Eve, A debate open to what the evil of this man? Oh 39 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:58.200 day? He choose to debate, putting himself up as a pious pastor man 40 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:03.480 in a card and yet he wants to debate on paper on Christmas Eve. 41 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:16.679 Mean as ever, I'm still mean, I'm still mean. I still believe 42 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:22.639 I'm still mean. It's gonna be open for him, and you're not gonna 43 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:28.919 get pious pastor man. You're gonna get the same old mean jay. I 44 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:33.399 was already mean to a Protestant this morning, and I feel good about it. 45 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.200 I feel good about being me let me be mean to your mom and 46 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.559 you'll spleen. I said, I feel good about being me. I'm gonna 47 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.600 be mean to your mom and your stepdad, and you'll groll and your cousin. 48 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:52.440 It's gonna be a mean Christmas Eve. You all fell for my trolling, 49 00:10:52.519 --> 00:11:00.399 my joke that I was gonna be loving, and it was all mobile 50 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:07.799 calling villain. No, what the heck is happening. I said the word 51 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:13.799 villain, and Sirih thought I was telling her to call villain the Armenian dude 52 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:22.600 in DC. Get out of here, Siri, and not merry Christmas to 53 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:28.279 you. Shut up, Sirih, look at that. I'm being mean even 54 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:33.919 to the robots. Thank you, Chase Haguard. The call in lines are 55 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:41.559 open, and uh, there's really no point in me rehearsing the rules because 56 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:48.120 no one who calls in actually knows the rules or will follow the rules unless 57 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:52.039 they ask questions. The people who ask questions follow the rules. The people 58 00:11:52.080 --> 00:12:00.320 who want to dub eate his name's villain, not villain, So sir thought 59 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:07.039 of something about vilain. I said the word villain. That's funny. The 60 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:13.759 people that actually want to debate, of course, will not follow the rules, 61 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:18.519 so we really there's not any point in you in rehearsing this is there. 62 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:22.440 I mean, we know what's gonna happen. We're gonna get repeating of 63 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:28.039 my name many times. The delusional guy this morning at least didn't repeat my 64 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:33.480 name, so I guess he gets one point for that. Carding and swag 65 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:39.480 baby, carding and swag baby. I'm LARPing as a pastor, man. 66 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:50.759 But guess what, every pastor's LARPing as a pastor man. Ah. The 67 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:54.759 mean is coursing through my veins at the moment, and I'm just loving it. 68 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:00.879 I don't I literally can't have a good day unless I'm mean to people. 69 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:11.279 Don't worry, though, I've come stacked with cob drops. I'm prepared. 70 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:16.360 We're gonna open it up so that people who claim that they would like 71 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:22.240 to a debate can come on and say ridiculous things and I can lose my 72 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:28.679 patience. Just kidding. You noticed the last time is that people came on 73 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:33.519 and said ridiculous things, and within a few minutes of me determining that they're 74 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.720 not rational people, I just simply exited the discussion, and yet they still 75 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:43.519 said it was me, not only was it mean to exit the discussion so 76 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:52.759 that I didn't get angry every person I saw that I exited their discussion. 77 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:56.039 Then went on to Twitter to explain that the only reason I exited the discussion 78 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:05.240 was because I couldn't answer their low tier questions. So you keep telling yourself 79 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.919 that, keep telling it, even though it's questions that have been answered probably 80 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:16.399 one hundred times. On the channel. Some other guy was like, give 81 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.799 me the video where you never did it? No, lazy, use a 82 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:31.200 search engine. I don't owe you anything. We've become so soft. Everyone 83 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:43.480 is so soft and so so passive aggressive. So I'm gonna ask the Americans 84 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:46.480 stop eating the diets they're eating, because that's a huge part of it. 85 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:52.600 America, stop eating your garbage diet. It's making you all into soy men. 86 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:00.559 It's making your women grow peeps, and it's making your men grow tatas. 87 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:07.840 Please stop. That's a big part of it. So if you are 88 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:15.320 interested, you can call in, and the way you call in is Twitter 89 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:18.720 spaces, and you can now call in on Twitter spaces on a computer then 90 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:20.399 used to be that way, but you can do it. So if you 91 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:26.039 don't have the app, you do have to have Twitter. You simply join 92 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:31.519 the space and you request to speak. We already have many people, many 93 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:39.720 people already requested to speak, many beautiful, many beautiful parishioners in my humble 94 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:45.960 online pastor's chapel, ready to come and ask the questions so that I may 95 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:52.879 give them helpful spiritual guidance as an online Internet pastor, so that they may 96 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:58.919 then place their life savings and the memos life savings into the offering plate. 97 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:06.480 Yes, we are very humble here so that we might build the Calvinist cigar 98 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:11.840 club and golf course out back of the parish, even though we don't call 99 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:18.559 it a perish in the Calvinist churches. I'm very humble. Did y'all know? 100 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:26.159 I may, in fact hop on the Internet later tonight and tell everybody 101 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.120 how much I'm praying and tweet how many prayers I'm praying. Every time I 102 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:34.720 pray a prayer, I will tweet that prayer out so that everyone may understand 103 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:41.639 how much I'm praying publicly on the internet. Because Jesus himself said, when 104 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:48.200 you pray, go into the widest spaces of the Internet and tell everyone publicly 105 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:56.840 that you're praying and fasting. That is what Jesus said to do. It's 106 00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:00.440 open for and the topics are as you can imagine, as you probably already 107 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:06.720 know. Catholicism, papacy, history, contradictions, Protestantism, logic, laws 108 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:14.000 of logic, universals, logie, church fathers, councils, transcendental arguments, 109 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:22.000 tag atheism, agnosticism, empiricism, epistemology, metaphysics, Koran philosophy, conspiracies, 110 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:30.400 bitcoin, geopolitics, feminism. Of course, no one ever calls in 111 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:37.400 on those topics, but they are open. The only requirement is, please 112 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:42.799 make arguments unless you have questions. An argument is not where you rap. 113 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:48.799 I know that's hard for some of you slow boys and girls out there and 114 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:53.880 slow wine moms. Rapping isn't an argument. You could theoretically wrap your arguments. 115 00:17:53.960 --> 00:18:00.400 That is possible, I suppose if you are skilled enough, I will 116 00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:04.359 let you wrap your argument at me. But slam, poetry and rapping is 117 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:14.119 not an argument itself. And I was gonna unmute the guy that I had 118 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.400 the debate. I wouldn't call it a debate, what would we call it? 119 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.640 I don't even know what to call it. The brief discussion with this 120 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:29.400 morning, but I can't remember his his handle. I blocked him at lightning 121 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:33.720 speed. Everyone knows I'm a master lightning speed speed blocker. I'm probably block 122 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:41.160 more people than there are blocks in Minecraft. I don't know. I mean, 123 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:47.400 I've blocked half of the Internet, and I don't know. I'm happy 124 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.240 I've done that has made my life a lot better. In fact, I 125 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:56.640 wish that I had learned to block people many years before I've blocked the thousands 126 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.640 of people I've already balked. Someone wants that's arrogant to you to black people, 127 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:06.680 to which I say, twenty twenty four will be the year of love 128 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:12.319 and public humility displays. I will display my love and my humidity non stop 129 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:17.960 all of twenty twenty four. I will tweet every prayer and so that you 130 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.200 can share my tweets and share with the world how humble and pious I am. 131 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:27.839 It's very easy to get blocked by me. Just say one thing dumb. 132 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.880 It's pretty much it like it's a low bar of what it is to 133 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:38.799 qualify to be magnificent, magnificently blocked by me just to basically just say something 134 00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:45.279 dumb and then where I'm out, it's over, goodbye. So the way 135 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:49.000 it works, as you guys know, and as you guys won't do even 136 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.400 though we know. We all know it, and I'm saying it, but 137 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:56.720 we all nobody's no, nobody's gonna do it. I'll give you the microphone. 138 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.759 You can make whatever arguments you want. You can stay whatever you want. 139 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:04.079 That are actual arguments. We don't need to establish whether I'm a KGB, 140 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:10.400 a Cabala wizard sorcerer. We already know that. We already know I'm 141 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:18.440 a Panamanian KGB operative drug lord assassin in a Cardigan, So we can move 142 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.920 past that that's been established. You're expose that. I can see you've exposed 143 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:30.759 me. Now what is your argument? Right? Maybe I should put vegans 144 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:34.440 in there. Remember the vegans. I haven't seen them coming around in a 145 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:40.599 long time, and they're an insane cult, so maybe the vegans can pop 146 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:44.799 up. I forgot to put vegans in there. If you want to convince 147 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.880 me of your atheist veganism, you can also do that as well. What 148 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:52.599 is an open debate? You come on the Twitter space and I give you 149 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:57.000 the microphone and you make whatever arguments you want. Where do you talk with 150 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:03.200 people? It is linked in the show description. It amazes me. People 151 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:07.160 don't know what the show like, what the descriptions are on YouTube. It's 152 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:11.240 like people don't have never even heard of this. Here all put it in 153 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:15.279 the chat for you. You're in the YouTube chat and you don't know what 154 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:19.680 a show description is, call in right there, come on the Twitter space. 155 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:25.079 That's how you It's very simple, is this whole audience? Boomer? 156 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:36.160 I don't get it all right? First up is James Lindsay lookalike. His 157 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:38.400 name's Ricky. And by the way, if you get your feelings hurt then 158 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:42.240 I make jokes. Then don't come on if you get your feelings hurt because 159 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:47.160 I make jokes about people's names, profiles. It's normal, it's it's what 160 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:51.440 guys do. So if you're super effeminate and you're gonna get your feelings hurt 161 00:21:51.480 --> 00:22:00.799 about jokes, then just don't come on. Very Christmas evetube M what's up 162 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:04.880 with you? Yeah? So I was raised, to give a little bit 163 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:12.079 of context, raised Roman Catholic, and in college I got baptized in Church 164 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:21.680 of Christ h I c OC ICC cult And then thanks to Sam Schun you 165 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:27.000 said, yeah, the ICOC Church of Christ, don't that's not the Campbellite 166 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.799 Church of Christ. Is it what do you mean a cult? Yeah? 167 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:40.319 Yeah, so the there's this ICOC branch of the Church of Christ and it's 168 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:45.079 a pretty pretty massive cult. But yeah, in the summer, thanks to 169 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:51.200 Sam Shimon and I kind of returned to Catholicism and then I discovered you and 170 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:57.039 uh, inquiring into Orthodoxy right now, And so most of my debates I've 171 00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:02.359 been with the Church of Christ people. And there's just one guy who argues 172 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:10.119 that for the episcopate that I try to argue for. He uses the Ethiopian 173 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:15.759 eunuch as an example of someone who wasn't joined to a physical church and he 174 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:21.079 just went on his way rejoicing. I guess, So what would you say 175 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:26.480 to someone that uses that argument? Right, So Jesus says in Mark that 176 00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:34.720 when the guy's doing can you mute your puppy dog side of things? Yeah, 177 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:38.000 so Jesus says, when the guy's casting out demons. Right in the 178 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:41.880 Book of Mark, the disciples say, but he's not amongst us, And 179 00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:45.200 Jesus says, there's no one who does a miracle in my name who will 180 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:51.160 not who will not eventually be amongst us. So I think the assumption is 181 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:56.519 that just because in every situation an actually don't see them immediately pointing out the 182 00:23:56.559 --> 00:24:02.160 episcopate doesn't mean that that person didn't join the episcopae. In fact, a 183 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:04.599 couple of times in Acts, they actually when the missionaries find people like the 184 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:11.160 Disciples of John or the Disciples of Apollo and Apollo's Shimi Apollos, they tell 185 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:15.200 them that they need to come into the church. So that's a unique time 186 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:18.920 in the Book of Acts when it's called the transition period, right, it's 187 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:25.200 the inter the it's the period between the death of Christ and the destruction of 188 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:27.759 the Temple. The destruction of the temple is the definitive end of the Old 189 00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:37.000 Covenant administration. So there's going to be unnatural or abnormal, or maybe unnatural 190 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:42.839 is not. There's going to be anomaloust situations during that time period that won't 191 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:48.759 be norm normative, or they won't characterize the norm after the destruction of the 192 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:53.920 temple. So once the church is established and the Temple's destroyed, it's very 193 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.440 clear that's supposed to be the definitive sign that that that the Kingdom has come 194 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.880 and that it's no no longer the Old Testament Jewish administration. So yeah, 195 00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.839 there were many people in the Book of Acts who were reading the scriptures and 196 00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:11.799 coming to believe and may not have yet even met the apostles like you're talking 197 00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:17.200 about. But typically when they do meet the apostles, they are also instructed 198 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:18.720 to come into to the church. And so I think the assumption is that 199 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:25.559 the Ethiopian unit will come under the episcopate. And just because it doesn't immediately 200 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.839 state that in that section, it's not like everybody can just go out and 201 00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:32.759 do what they want, because other places in the scripture tell us that you 202 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:36.000 can't do that. In the Book of Timothy, for example, Paul says, 203 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.359 I laid hands on you, Timothy, I gave the depositive faith to 204 00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.880 you. You lay your hands on men after you who will be faithful. 205 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:47.400 So Timothy is the only legitimate authority in ephesis, not anybody else, not 206 00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:49.920 anyone running around doing whatever they want. So in other words, you can't 207 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:56.759 take It's just like when Paul decides, out of pragmatic reasons to circumcise Timothy 208 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:00.920 in the Book of Acts. Technically he doesn't need to do that, but 209 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:06.599 it would be less there would be less problems for him. Doing that with 210 00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:10.079 Timothy than if he hadn't done it, right, So we wouldn't take that 211 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:15.079 one example like Judaizers do and say, well, look, pol still circumcised 212 00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.119 Timothy, so you have to always continue to do circumcision. It was what 213 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:25.440 he chose to do at that time in that inter transitional period between the death 214 00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:30.640 of Christ, the resurrection of Christ and the astabshim of the Church Pentecost and 215 00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.160 then the destruction of the Temple. So again, the key here is to 216 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:38.599 understand the big picture of redemptive history. Not everything that happens in the Book 217 00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:42.599 of Acts is normative for the entire history of the Church because it's a transition 218 00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:52.000 period. Yeah no, that makes sense. By the way, don't the 219 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.480 Church of Christ themselves think that all these things that happened in the Book of 220 00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:59.960 Acts, like all these miracles and whatnot, that that's not that doesn't happen 221 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:04.279 anymore. Yeah, yeah, So they have their own position of oh, 222 00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:07.799 well, we don't continue those things from the Book of Acts till now. 223 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.039 But then they're picking and choosing, oh, but this one we do, 224 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.480 we want, we want that one because that goes against the historic church, 225 00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:23.440 right right, So two more quick questions when the Father says, this is 226 00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:29.039 my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, but that be considered an 227 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:37.519 energetic manifestation of the Father. Yes, okay, And now each person in 228 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:41.960 the triad is still involved in every action of God, because every action of 229 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:47.400 God is triadic, but the actions can still be unique to individual hypostasis. 230 00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:52.799 So just like Christ dying on the cross, right, that's a unique action. 231 00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:56.000 It's still triadic, but it's a unique action that the son undergoes. 232 00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:00.960 The Father and the spirit don't die on the cross or they don't experience death 233 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:06.279 on la crosse right, right, And yet the action is still triadic because 234 00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:08.920 the Father sent the son to die on the cross. Right. So likewise 235 00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:15.000 it's not the like actions are proper to the whole triad, but the actions 236 00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:22.079 can still be actualized by individual hypostasies. Right. In other words, each 237 00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:27.440 person has a unique role in any action. Yeah, got that all right? 238 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:33.799 So final question, And I always love the argument you make about Nestorian 239 00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:40.640 sacramentology, which Protestants seem to have. So what's a good book on U 240 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:52.359 sacramentology? I would just read something like Nicholas Cabasilas's book on Ortho Basic Orthodox 241 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:56.000 Theology. He'll give you a good Orthodox Cristology, I mean ecclesiology there in 242 00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.279 sacramentology, all right, awesome. I mean also, Orthodox books kind of 243 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.599 just tie everything together. They don't typically unless you get into the academic stuff. 244 00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:08.880 They don't typically just write a book on sacraments or just a book on 245 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:14.200 because they all go together. Like our theology of the Church is dependent on 246 00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:21.480 Christology, our sacramentology is dependent upon Christology. Christology depending upon our trinitarian theology. 247 00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:26.480 Right. Yeah, I love that argument, and it's one that really 248 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:33.519 got me to consider Orthodoxy because Catholicism I just find it like really all over 249 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.079 the place when it comes to that. So yeah, yeah, exactly. 250 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:40.640 By the way, to the people in the Chat that are saying Christmas is 251 00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:48.079 pagan, that's idiotic. Christmas is the feast of Theophany, right, It's 252 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.480 the it's the birth of Christ. Right, it's not the baptism Christ. 253 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:56.880 It's the it's the feast of the coming of the of our Savior into the 254 00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:03.440 world. And it has has its origins in the Orthodox Church. Has nothing 255 00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:08.599 to do with sol Invictus or anything like that, and that's why the traditional 256 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:14.759 Orthodox date is January. Right, It's in January, so we'll be celebrating 257 00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:21.359 Christmas January, you know, six seven eight. We're not celebrating Christmas in 258 00:30:21.640 --> 00:30:26.200 the Orthodox Church typically on the papal calendar. So the irony here is that 259 00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.640 all these dumb Protestants that are trying to make this argument in evangelicals and whatever, 260 00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:34.920 these people are that Christmas is pagan. They're totally ignorant because they don't 261 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:41.839 even know that Easter is Pasca in the Orthodox Church. Pasca is passover right, 262 00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:48.079 and the date the dates in the Orthodox Church has nothing to do with 263 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.119 Sol Invictus or Tamas or any the bullshit. You guys, You guys have 264 00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:53.960 no idea what you're talking about. So you can call in all the Protestants 265 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:59.519 that are asking these silly questions in ignorance. You're free to call in and 266 00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:03.839 make these arguments. But if you just here to spam stuff, uh, 267 00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:08.400 then yeah, celebrating Nativity in January doesn't even match up to the stupid pagan 268 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:22.319 arguments that you're making Christmas because December stolen victors fumbles. If you're not gonna 269 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.680 call in, then just you're just gonna get booted. Nobody has time for 270 00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:27.920 your low IQ spamming. And you guys are you're not even You're just spamming 271 00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:38.480 crap into the chat anyway, fumbles, Hello, question you're cutting out? 272 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:53.200 Question is maybe try it? Okay. My short question is by the essence 273 00:31:53.240 --> 00:32:00.519 of God like man related to absolutely divine simplicity that kind of stuff is is 274 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:04.480 the unity of God as in the monotheism? Right, because we believe one 275 00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:08.160 God? Right, is that the idea that we get one God from three 276 00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:12.319 persons, is that rooted in the person of the Father or the essence? 277 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.119 So that for the essence of all three of the persons, right, So 278 00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:19.960 the monarchy of the Father, which is what's expressed in the Creed. We 279 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.559 believe in one God, the Father Almighty, and the source of that unity 280 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:25.640 is the person of the Father. But it's also you can still it's still 281 00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:31.039 correct to say that there's one one God because there's one nature, right, 282 00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:36.039 Okay, So what makes God one God is the person of the Father, 283 00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:42.000 Yeah, and that he possesses a singular nature. I say, okay, 284 00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:45.799 so because I for a long time I thought it was the essence of God, 285 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.440 and I was telling people that and I thought to myself, I might 286 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.400 be wrong about that half pass. We'll just go watch doctor Branson's lectures on 287 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:59.000 the monarchy of the Father. And it's true to say this that God is 288 00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:01.960 one because there's one nature, but that flows from the fact that there's one 289 00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:07.559 Father that communicates the nature. So the Creed itself, and even Paul right, 290 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:09.759 for us, there's one God, the father of lights. Our James 291 00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:15.039 says, the one God, the father of lights. Paul says for us, 292 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:17.759 there's one God, the Father of Christ. Right. So the terminology 293 00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:22.319 of Paul is the same as the terminology the nice Creed, which is that 294 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:25.920 there's one God because there's one Father. So that places personhood as the first 295 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:30.319 category for which we know God. And Palma says the exact same thing in 296 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:35.400 the triads. So the essence is what the person has. And so it's 297 00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:38.279 true that the triad has one essence. But it's more true to say that 298 00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:42.759 there's one God because there's one Father, because that's the ancient Christian creed, 299 00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:47.519 and that's the biblical theology, and that's why the Old Testament speaks that way. 300 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:52.640 How does the Old Testament consistently speak of the one God as the Father. 301 00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:58.640 That one Father has sent his angel, who has the name of Yahweh 302 00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:04.039 in him has a spirit. So it's more consistent with Old Testament theology than 303 00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:08.559 it is to say, as becomes really popular in the medieval Latin West, 304 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.639 to say that there's one God because there's one essence, and that one essence 305 00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.719 is Father, son and spirit. No, there's one God because there's one 306 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:21.119 Father. This is just the classic Cappadocian approach. Okay, I understand. 307 00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:23.679 So you can go watch doctor Branson's lectures. He has a whole series of 308 00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:30.840 lectures on his website on the monarchy of the Father. Right, So somebody's 309 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:37.159 saying, oh, but the Russian Orthodox calendar. Yeah, The point is 310 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:44.280 that the argument of the Protestants is that you're celebrating a day. You're doing 311 00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:50.159 these rituals to commemorate the birth of Tamus. Okay, so it doesn't matter 312 00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:54.840 that it's still believed to be the end of December. The point is that 313 00:34:55.039 --> 00:35:00.079 they're saying that the celebration of the liturgy is pagan because you're celebrating the birth 314 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:07.079 of Tamas on December twenty four or whatever. So thank you for your nitpicking 315 00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:14.840 when you're really just missing the whole point. By the way, why are 316 00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:19.559 you here to nitpick? Just nitpick somewhere else? Are you were nitpicking the 317 00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:24.280 other stream? So go nitpick some other stream. Holly. Let's see, 318 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.679 Holly, let's see. We've gotta have somebody. We've got the same people 319 00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:32.679 that always calling. I'm not knocking your big chief, but Kaiser Collins, 320 00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:46.599 that's an interesting name. Hello, what's up? Man? I have read 321 00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:52.599 this scriptures. The scriptures deliberate to me that you have the anti christ sense 322 00:35:52.639 --> 00:36:00.199 to destroy the world. Is that a joke? Nope, I'm the anti 323 00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:06.679 Christ. Yes, that is the way you're giggling and your thumb for an 324 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.760 accent. You can't even hold it together. You're gonna troll you again? 325 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:15.440 Giggle dummy. That wasn't even the original guy that came on? Don what's 326 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:20.679 up if you're gonna troll making your jokes good? That wasn't even funny. 327 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:34.159 Do you like my European accident? Come on, dude, can you hear 328 00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:37.360 me? Okay? Cool? Sorry, I'm a little bit sick, so 329 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.679 forgetting Hey me too, man, that's why I'm eating cough drops. Oh 330 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:46.639 man, I'm just dying over here. But anyways, so I'm a cad 331 00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:52.039 of human and Orthodox Church, have been for about a year and a half. 332 00:36:52.159 --> 00:36:53.480 Hey, Jamie, did you hand me a coffee? Go ahead, 333 00:36:53.519 --> 00:37:00.639 I'm listening. You've been a catechumen, and I know I'm getting stuck up 334 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:05.679 on some glow level stuff. But one thing I'm getting stuck up on is 335 00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:09.159 kind of like this Marcianism train of thought, where you know, the Old 336 00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:14.480 Testament God was, you know, an evil God, and then you know 337 00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:20.760 vice versa in the New Testament. So for someone who not stupid, but 338 00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:22.000 I am a slow boy when it comes to this, so I kind of 339 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:24.960 get caught up on some Yeah, I understand, I did a whole h 340 00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:30.119 I did a whole three hour stream just on this topic. So I'm not 341 00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:37.880 trying to bypass the questions. I'm happy to respond to specifics and summarize here. 342 00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:42.519 But I am going to link this three hour talk that I did on 343 00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:50.159 this topic because this is an issue that comes up a lot in Orthodox circles 344 00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:52.840 because a lot of people struggle with the Old Testament or something like that, 345 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:57.360 and there's just sort of this assumption that, well, God was a lot 346 00:37:57.480 --> 00:37:59.880 meaner in the Old Testament. But if you look at the New Testament, 347 00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.800 it's all peace, love and hippie Jesus or something like that. But actually, 348 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:09.239 every principle that you think about God having in the Old Testament that characterized 349 00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:16.800 him, like being a warrior, being involved in providentially sort of ordering historical 350 00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:21.119 battles, you know, this kind of stuff, it's all continued in the 351 00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:24.480 New Testament for the person of Christ. So in the Apocalypse, for example, 352 00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:30.559 we see Christ as a conqueror who literally destroys his enemies. That's very 353 00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:32.639 much the idea of present in the Old Testament. For example, in the 354 00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:37.719 Book of Revelation, we also see the principle lex talionisked eye for an eye, 355 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:42.800 right when the martyrs are praying, they pray for God's justice and vengeance 356 00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:46.000 upon those who persecue the Church on earth. So again that's eye for eye 357 00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:53.159 principles in the Book of Revelation carried over into the New Testament. And I 358 00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:57.480 mean, you can keep going through all kinds of things like the death penalty. 359 00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.119 The death penalty is very clearly continued over from the Old Testament into the 360 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:05.000 New Testament. Paul and Romans thirteen makes it clear that the state has the 361 00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:08.320 authority to put people to death. So and you know, people who disagree 362 00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:12.000 with that just have a problem with the Bible itself. They want to have 363 00:39:12.079 --> 00:39:15.079 their own ethic, they want to have pacifism, they want Marcianism to be 364 00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:21.559 true. I mean, you could go to the very first apologetic work or 365 00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:25.199 systematic theology after Justin Martyr. I mean, obviously Justin Marty's an Apologists, 366 00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:30.079 but the first systematic theology in the history of the Church is Eronaeus is against 367 00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:36.119 heresies and against heresies. Therein as is a giant section against marcian and he 368 00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:39.760 makes the very arguments I'm making that the God of the Old Testament is identified 369 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:45.840 by Jesus in the Gospels multiple times over as being his father. And in 370 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:47.519 fact, when we go back and read Exodus, when we read Exodus three 371 00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:51.760 and Exodus twenty three, we find out that it's Jesus that is the Angel 372 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:53.960 of the Lord that went before the Jews into the to the Promised Land. 373 00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:58.280 So that means Jesus is the Ange of the Lord who went before them to 374 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.079 cleanse the promised Land. It's Jesus who's the Angel the Lord that appears to 375 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.400 Joshua before the battles. It's Jesus as the Angel of the Lord that appears 376 00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.199 to the judges who go out and kill the enemies of God. So all 377 00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:15.920 throughout the Old Testament you have the identification of Jesus as the being doing all 378 00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:22.039 this. So the very idea that it's a different God in the New Testament 379 00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:25.480 is absolutely counter to the New Testament's argumentation itself. In fact, all throughout 380 00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:28.559 this is the key argument, by the way, that I make against the 381 00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:32.280 Muslims, because over and no, and ohere this comes up because the Muslim 382 00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:37.039 assumption is that there's some sort of different the Trinity and the deed of Christ 383 00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:39.440 for a New Testament invention. And that's why it's so important to stress and 384 00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:43.440 to demonstrate to the Muslims that no, this is all throughout the Old Testament, 385 00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:45.840 throughout the Torah, right, And that's why it's such a powerful apologetic. 386 00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:50.800 But most of this rests on people's ignorance of the Torah. People don't 387 00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:52.320 know the Old Testament, they don't know the Torah, they don't know the 388 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:58.599 law, they don't know the prophets. And I really like those texts. 389 00:40:58.920 --> 00:41:01.800 So for me, I'm very much into those texts. I've been into them 390 00:41:02.199 --> 00:41:07.400 even when I was a Protestant, I was a Reconstructionist, and reconstructionism is 391 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:12.239 all about the Old Testament. So in God's providence, I guess it gave 392 00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:15.760 me a love for the Old Testament. And I'm not even saying I'm like 393 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:19.280 I'm the master of the Old Testament. There's people who know it way better 394 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.880 than me. Sure, But the point is that the Old Testament very clearly 395 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:30.159 teaches Yahweh has his angel messenger who is also divine and his spirit. This 396 00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:36.920 is like dozens of passages all throughout the Old Testament that have this structure, 397 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:43.039 and so therefore it's not a Unitarian theology. If it's not a Unitarian theology, 398 00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:46.960 then when the New Testament appeals too. For example, John five through 399 00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:52.719 John nine, Jesus says I was on Mount SINAI I'm the one that Moses 400 00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:57.159 talked to. That means Jesus gave the law to Moses. I'm the one 401 00:41:57.159 --> 00:42:01.840 who went before the Israelites. Moses wrote about me. Abraham believed in me. 402 00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:06.159 That means Jesus is the one who went and eate with Abraham in Genesis. 403 00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:14.480 So we see then that Martianism can only rest on certain presuppositions, like 404 00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:20.280 the idea that there's a different deity that's presented in the Old Testament and a 405 00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.559 different deity in the New Testament. Now, that's why Marcian is the first 406 00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:25.800 person to draw up a canon of scripture. Do you know the first canon 407 00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:30.440 in the history of the Church of the Bible is actually Marcians. And can 408 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:34.559 you imagine what Marcian's canon was? While it's a bunch of gospels sections and 409 00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:37.880 he cut off like the synoptic Gospels. And the odd part is that I 410 00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:40.559 think he left the Gospel of John, which doesn't make any sense because the 411 00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:45.000 Gospel John is actually the one that most affirms the Old Testament. I mean 412 00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:52.199 John five through nine is like literally the destruction of Martianism, and yet Marcian, 413 00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.800 in his delusion included that. So but there's other by the way, 414 00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.519 there's other reasons why Marcianism had the view that it did. Martianism is actually 415 00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:04.079 based on abolute devine simplicity. All of the Rodagawis thesis, which most people 416 00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:08.719 don't know, but that required God's goodness being smushed into his essence, and 417 00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:12.880 that meant that there could only be one kind of goodness at all times, 418 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:16.280 according to Marcian, because of absolute divine simplicity, and so that meant that 419 00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:21.760 there couldn't be In other words, he read it as if there was a 420 00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:23.719 change in morals from the Old Testament to the New Testament, and since God 421 00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:29.760 is absolutely simple goodness, there could never be a quote change in morals. 422 00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:31.679 I'm not saying that God changes, and I'm not saying that there is a 423 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:37.440 change in morals. That was Marcian's reasoning on the basis of actually his view 424 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:40.239 of divine simplicity. So there's a lot of different errors involved in Marsianism, 425 00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:46.320 and a lot of Protestants who converted to Orthodox, who become priests and pastor 426 00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:52.599 excuse me, priests and teachers, they still retained a lot of their Marcianite 427 00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:57.360 higher critical presuppositions. For example, I did a video six or seven years 428 00:43:57.360 --> 00:44:00.760 ago about Father Stephen Freeman as an example of this. I'm not trying to 429 00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:05.199 be mean or rude, but this is a fact, and I'm not calling 430 00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:07.079 him out. I don't know if he still holds these views. I've never 431 00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:12.199 talked to him, but the fact of the matter is that he consistently has 432 00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:15.639 argued over on his blog for many many years at Ancient Faith Radio that the 433 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.119 Old Testament God is a different God than the New Testament God. And he 434 00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:23.599 says, well, I learned all this in my Anglican academic career. You 435 00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:28.320 know, nobody cares about your England academic career. That should not come into 436 00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:34.239 orthodoxy. But that's the basis from which those people are arguing that it's a 437 00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:37.880 different God in the Old Testament, the ones that are in the orthodoxers. 438 00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:44.000 I just it's kind of crazy, like I wasn't a raised Protestant or anything 439 00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:49.840 like that, but that that version of Christianity is so ingrained in my head, 440 00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:52.920 in other people's heads, even though you know they weren't even raised like 441 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.719 that. It's just I don't know, it's just kind of there. And 442 00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:59.079 then people think a certain way because you know, I get hung up with, 443 00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:04.440 oh, well, you know this type of sacrifice and you know God 444 00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:07.199 wanted him to kill that person, and it's just like it's hard to let 445 00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:10.159 it go, even though I don't even know where it came from. Yeah, 446 00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:14.760 I was raised Catholic, but even stiff well, but hard to let 447 00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:17.360 what go because if when you get into actual text, it doesn't present a 448 00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:24.800 different deity. Right, But then I guess my point is like my my 449 00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:31.679 moral relativism. Oh well then yeah, that's the problem, right, you 450 00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:36.400 got to let that go exactly. I mean, I appreciate the honesty, 451 00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:44.480 though. One more quick question. Are you still doing cardivoor pretty much? 452 00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:49.360 How do you? How are you able to? Uh? Yeah, because 453 00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:51.760 the fasts are made for men, not men for the fast, right, 454 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:55.199 so you get a dispensation or you talk to your spiritual father, that's how. 455 00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:59.840 And we've done many talks on that. Let's see David Reid. What's 456 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:16.239 the David Reid. M David Reid. Gotta ummute, man, Come on, 457 00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:25.400 guys, gotta ummute as soon as I what's up? Jus. I 458 00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:30.880 just had a quick question for you. I was listening in the Daniel hoku 459 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:38.320 Ka Chew de Bait and when he started asking about the incarnation and does that 460 00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:44.800 constitute basically a change in the divine nature or did you you know he was 461 00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:50.719 making some kind of critique like that kind of an ormy Muslim critique, and 462 00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:58.360 your response was that it was that basically the hypostasis of the sun entered into 463 00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:01.599 a new mode. And I was just curious what you meant by mode. 464 00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:07.400 I've understood mode to mean like Michael Humor, to find substance. I've heard 465 00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:12.880 him define a substance. He said, this is how he analytic philosophy generally 466 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:19.480 defines it. That No, that's a different way, right. Mode he 467 00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:24.079 was saying a substance was a thing with basically properties, and a mode is 468 00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:31.280 a particular instance of a substance. Well, so when we use a lot 469 00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:37.079 of terminology for theology that is from the Patristic and medieval era, it's not 470 00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:40.880 the same thing as the way that these terms are used in modern analytical philosophy. 471 00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:45.239 So that's the first thing. For example, person or hypostasis is not 472 00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:50.800 the same thing as the way that we think of person in the modern world 473 00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:54.320 as just a guy over there. Right, person has to do with I'm 474 00:47:54.360 --> 00:48:00.599 serious, I mean so so specifically to talk about Intristic and medieval philosophy, 475 00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:06.280 the word mode motifers to the way a thing exists, or how a thing 476 00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:10.920 exists in what way is that thing existing? Right? So, for example, 477 00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:20.360 thoughts, what ontological status do thoughts have? Or numbers? How do 478 00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:23.639 those exist? Well, numbers have a unique mode of existence that is not 479 00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:29.559 material, so they exist in an abstract mode. It's the type or the 480 00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:32.639 way that that thing exists. So when you talked about an instance, that 481 00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:37.360 would just be a particular, that would just be an instantiation. So when 482 00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:42.360 we talk about the Son, the Son existed from all eternity as the second 483 00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:45.039 person in the Godhead, right, he's the logos. He is the eternally 484 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:50.440 begotten offspring of the Father, from all eternity, as the second person of 485 00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:52.800 the Trinity. That's how he always existed, and he still exists as that. 486 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:58.920 But there's a change in that he stepped into a new way of being 487 00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:04.280 that it didn't compromise his prior way of being, It didn't shed his divinity, 488 00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.679 it didn't empty out his divinity. But if you look at the Pasad 489 00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:12.159 in Philippians, when it talks about kinosis, it says that he willingly stepped 490 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:15.679 into our mode of being, and that means that he willingly chose to not 491 00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:20.960 exercise all of the powers that he possesses. So, for example, in 492 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:24.400 some way, because God is above time and space in creation, the second 493 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:28.039 person of the Godhead, and not the Father and not the Spirit, were 494 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:32.119 able to enter into the mode of being that we possess. As humans. 495 00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:37.920 So he became man, he became flesh. He the second person that God 496 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:43.280 had adopted and took on impersonal human nature. It couldn't be a personal human 497 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:45.480 nature because if it was, there would be two persons, because there's already 498 00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:50.239 a divine person. That's an Astorianism, the idea that there's a dual subject 499 00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:57.800 in Christ. So what he assumed was manhood or human nature, and the 500 00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:00.760 divine person of the son is the person to that human nature that he assumed. 501 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:06.760 But he did step into a new mode of being without compromising his divinity 502 00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:09.599 or his sonship. So what do we mean when we say that there was 503 00:50:09.639 --> 00:50:15.880 a kenosis or something unique here? Well, the thing that the Muslims aren't 504 00:50:15.880 --> 00:50:20.719 grasping is that God has the ability to be in time and space in a 505 00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:25.199 unique way that doesn't compromise or isn't identical to his omnipresence. And we see 506 00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:29.960 this, for example already in the Old Testament Theophanes. So that Theophanes are 507 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:34.360 all proofs of Orthodoxy as well as proofs of the incarnation, because they're unique 508 00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:38.199 manifestations of God himself in time and space. This is where the essence Inergi 509 00:50:38.280 --> 00:50:42.639 sinction comes in, because how is that possible if God's absolutely simple outside of 510 00:50:42.679 --> 00:50:46.320 time and space. The manifestation is fully divine, but it's not equivalent to 511 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:52.079 his divine essence. So there's a personal presence of God in an energetic way 512 00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:58.679 that still hides and still guards the unknowable essence of God. And so when 513 00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:01.840 the Sun becomes incarnate, much like in the instances of him appearing in the 514 00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:06.880 Old Testament Theophanies as the Angel of the Lord, when he becomes incarnate. 515 00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:10.239 The difference here between the Old Testament Theophanies and the incarnation is that now he's 516 00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:15.719 appearing in human nature, in a fully human body, will, mind, 517 00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:20.960 and soul, not a human person, not a human hypostasis. So as 518 00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:30.280 he's present in that mode, he willingly limited some of his attributes. Doesn't 519 00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:35.159 mean that he lost his deity. It means he he exercises his energies as 520 00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:38.519 he wills. Same principle with creation. God didn't have to create, He 521 00:51:38.679 --> 00:51:45.559 willed to create. Stop spamming the chat, good grief, guys, Please 522 00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:49.880 just just mute these people spamming. So just block these people spamming stuff, 523 00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:55.000 all right, So let me last point here, So motive being just refers 524 00:51:55.039 --> 00:52:00.800 to stepping into a new state, and that doesn't require that the previous state 525 00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:06.599 that his substance itself underwent change. So he's not changing the existing nature. 526 00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:10.000 He's adopting a new nature. So that's the difference here. And so it's 527 00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:15.960 like the analogy that afthenations some of the Eastern fathers make is that imagine it's 528 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:21.159 like a man putting on a cloak. Right, putting on a cloak does 529 00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:23.320 not change the existing human nature that put the cloak on, and so they 530 00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:28.679 actually will. Athanasius likens the human nature to like a cloak. Doesn't mean 531 00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:31.000 that the human nature is just a cloak and that it's like a that it's 532 00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:36.559 not fully human. It's just making an analogy to help explain that the adding 533 00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:42.039 of the new thing doesn't alter or change the previous nature. Because God was 534 00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:45.760 never bound to actualize every one of his powers. God could have created a 535 00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:50.599 universe without a moon. God could have created a universe without Thomas Aquinas right, 536 00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:52.199 he has that potentiality, that power, but he didn't do that, 537 00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:57.440 did he know? He created this universe. So God doesn't have to exercise 538 00:52:57.920 --> 00:53:00.239 all of his powers at once. So when Jesus was president walking around in 539 00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:04.159 a body in a new mode of being. The Son of God is present 540 00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:07.440 in a new motive being as a man when he's walking around in Jerusalem. 541 00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:13.840 He's uniquely present in Jerusalem in a way that he's not present in Capernaum or 542 00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:17.119 in Sodom mcgamora. Right, So how is that though, because isn't the 543 00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:22.599 omniscient. Yes, so both things are true. He's omniscient and present everywhere 544 00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:29.400 in one mode via his omniscience, but there's a unique mode in presence that's 545 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:32.800 not identical to the omniscients. That's a special presence like that the Oftenes were. 546 00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:37.840 Special presence is in Jerusalem. So both things are true at once. 547 00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:40.719 And all the argument that you're talking about from like Muslims and people like that, 548 00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:45.440 that's all based on dialectics. It's either or either he's present everywhere in 549 00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:49.800 an absolute way or he's present nowhere. And by the way, Muslims don't 550 00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:53.760 believe God is present in time space. Well, it's interesting because you'll hear 551 00:53:54.440 --> 00:54:02.119 I hear these arguments most commonly among social trinitaries that are evangelicals. They kind 552 00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:08.639 of make these same similar arguments, meaning you mean Muslims. Well, basically 553 00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:15.400 this, this constitutes a change. It must constitute a change, because if 554 00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:20.599 if the sun goes from not incarnate to incarnate, that's a change. That's 555 00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:23.239 uh is now, Yeah, that's why the church father That's why I said 556 00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:28.079 substantial change. So it just depends on what you mean by change. Yeah, 557 00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:30.039 entering into an entering into a new mode of being is a kind of 558 00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:34.599 change. It is not a substantial change. And that's the terminology that many 559 00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:37.679 of the church fathers use. Right, he underwent uh, he became man 560 00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:42.199 and yet underwent no change is the phraseology of Maximus, right, right, 561 00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:47.280 And what constitute a substance substantial change a change to the essence or substance of 562 00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:54.519 God. Substance is equivalent to essence. So if sorry, I'm just trying 563 00:54:54.559 --> 00:55:00.880 to think about, like the again, the analogy of putting on the analogy 564 00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:04.480 of putting on a coat. My human nature didn't change when I put on 565 00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:07.760 a coat. I added a new nature. So some kind of change occurred, 566 00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:12.960 but it wasn't a substantial change, right, Okay, okay, yeah, 567 00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:16.079 as long as that's I see, Because maybe what's being targeted to is 568 00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:21.039 largely the absolutely divine simplicity. Maybe is that why this is? Well, 569 00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:24.840 it's part to deny that he could even be in time at all. Right, 570 00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:28.280 that would be part of the argument, you. I mean a lot 571 00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:32.960 of those those critiques rely on a reductionist view of God's properties or traits. 572 00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:38.360 Then they'll they'll say that every property or trade is basically just God. But 573 00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:40.559 no, we don't believe that. I mean, we don't just believe in 574 00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:45.360 the essencenarious sinction. We also believe in a nature person distinction. Right, 575 00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:49.079 So would that be a personal change? Is that? Is that appropriate to 576 00:55:49.159 --> 00:55:54.159 say that the hypostatiss can change the divine hypati That is, they know they 577 00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:58.159 don't change. I am God, and I do not change. There's none 578 00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:01.840 like me. God himself says he does not go change. So what's changing 579 00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:06.480 again? Do you understand things can change in different ways? Yeah, yeah, 580 00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:08.880 but I'm asking what is changing? Is my question? The mode of 581 00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:17.599 being? Okay, from not being incarnate to being incarnate. So who's what's 582 00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:22.440 going undergoing the change? The second person that God had is adopting human nature, 583 00:56:22.599 --> 00:56:27.880 taking on adding a new nature. Right, that doesn't change his essence. 584 00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:31.639 I'm not saying essence. I'm saying person. Yeah, but when I 585 00:56:32.079 --> 00:56:37.679 know that, but so hold on, it's him becoming incarnate still doesn't change 586 00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:42.880 his personhood right in itself. Right, That's why we say that he underwent 587 00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:46.639 no change. He is a reference to person. Person equals he, Right, 588 00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:52.360 he underwent no change. When I put on a coat, do I 589 00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:54.519 no longer become Jay because I have a coat on? Does my nature or 590 00:56:54.599 --> 00:57:00.440 my person I'm not Jay anymore because I got a coat on? Yeah? 591 00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:07.280 Yeah, okay, okay, I see, Like basically the bed substantial was 592 00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:13.719 referring to both the person and the substance. Basically, like that's it doesn't 593 00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:19.159 count as a like significant change. Well that would again, Yeah, I 594 00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:22.360 mean, it just depends on how you define significant. Because it is significant 595 00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:28.599 that he went from not being incarnate and from and what Philippians calls kenosis. 596 00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:36.039 So he emptied himself in the sense of limiting and choosing not to exercise every 597 00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:37.960 possible power that he could, right, I mean, for example, when 598 00:57:38.000 --> 00:57:42.159 Jesus is going to one of the villages and he says that says that he 599 00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:45.239 could not heal them there because of their lack of faith, is that because 600 00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:50.559 he he didn't have omnipotence. No, it's because he willed to be in 601 00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:54.960 a state where he would make his miracles contingent in that case upon their faith. 602 00:57:55.199 --> 00:58:00.280 Right, So he willed to limit himself. That's what Philippians is talking 603 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:04.760 about in certain ways and in certain and then and in the exercising of certain 604 00:58:04.840 --> 00:58:08.239 powers. For example, could could Jesus have destroyed the world when he was 605 00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:13.559 walking around on on the planet if he wanted to? Sure? Okay, 606 00:58:13.599 --> 00:58:16.400 so he he chose not to. He willed to limit the power of conflagration 607 00:58:16.559 --> 00:58:22.760 at that time. Right. So that's what the meaning of the kenosis is, 608 00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:25.000 and Philippians is that it's based on the essence center distinction. It's based 609 00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:30.519 on God not being absolutely, strictly speaking, pure actuality in his essence. 610 00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:35.400 So there is an essence center distinction which means that you can't collapse them in 611 00:58:35.599 --> 00:58:42.519 the pure actuality doctrine of Thomas Aquinas. Okay, I'll off that point for 612 00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:45.000 now. I'll look that's helpful, yes, sir, Yeah, great questions, 613 00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:49.679 great questions. Thank you. I'm sorry, I thought you were done. 614 00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:52.719 I didn't mean to boot you. Feel free to come back into the 615 00:58:52.760 --> 00:59:04.000 quay if you want to. But really good questions, got too sub j 616 00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:13.039 can you hear me? Hello afternoon, So very very quick question. I've 617 00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:22.519 been lately in some low tier debates with some communists and people with materialist background, 618 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:29.039 and I was trying to demonstrate to them that even communism has some metaphysical 619 00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:37.719 foundations. So what is the best way to show that secularism is not devoid 620 00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:42.960 of metaphysics? But I don't want the long answer, just just you know, 621 00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:46.960 one, two or three points that I could make. I could start 622 00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:51.800 my argument with, like to show them that secularism, for example, is 623 00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:58.239 it has metaphysical foundations and maybe that we can view it even as religion. 624 00:59:58.719 --> 01:00:06.480 I show one great them uh one gate thing you did with Dion And yeah, 625 01:00:06.800 --> 01:00:08.119 here's two easy things. Right. So the first first thing you can 626 01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:12.920 point out is to ask them, you know, anytime that they state what 627 01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:15.000 is the case. For example, a lot of a lot of atheists are 628 01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:19.719 as seeming, a lot of communists will say that they believe in either dialectical 629 01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:25.280 materialism or dialectical or historical materialism. Right, that's the two main metaphysical principles 630 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:29.960 of communism. And if you ask them like, well, those are statements 631 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:35.440 about you know this is basically metaphysics borrowed from Hegel. Every communist believes in 632 01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:43.159 some Hegelian thing that they've adopted into, either historical materialism or dialectical materialism. 633 01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:45.920 That's the two metaphysical principles of all communists that exist that I know of, 634 01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:52.119 And those are metaphysical positions. So you simply have to ask them, how 635 01:00:52.159 --> 01:01:00.599 do you know that all of reality is in historical uh flux working towards something 636 01:01:00.920 --> 01:01:06.880 or a dialectical flux working towards something dia matt or histemat because those are metaphysical 637 01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:10.320 claims. And if they won't admit, like with that idiot Hawes, that 638 01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:15.000 those are metaphysical claims where they're making universal claims about what exists and what doesn't 639 01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:20.199 exist, then you're dealing with a stupid person and there's nothing, there's nothing 640 01:01:20.239 --> 01:01:23.440 you can do. And then the other thing I would say is another way 641 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:29.159 to approach this debate is the critique that I did last night or whatever it 642 01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:37.280 was two nights ago of the debate between Alex O'Connor and Ben Shapiro. Because 643 01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:42.320 every Communist who ends up saying that they believe in some form of dialectical materialism 644 01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:46.360 needs to. If they believe in free will, then they are already in 645 01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:50.400 the domain of metaphysics and they're gonna have to give an account of the will 646 01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:52.840 and its freedom. Those are metaphysical. That's the domain of metaphysics. And 647 01:01:52.920 --> 01:01:54.960 if they don't, if they want to admit that, then you're dealing with 648 01:01:55.039 --> 01:02:02.519 stupid people that it's not worth wasting your time. But thank you. Yeah, 649 01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:07.519 you're dealing with dishonest Bill. So the Kaiser wants to come back. 650 01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:09.679 He's the guy I clicked earlier and we got the troll. But let's say 651 01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:21.280 maybe i'll click the right person on stop. Definitely in James in a majority 652 01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:25.960 position, there's a little lack always. How you doing, I'm doing good. 653 01:02:27.519 --> 01:02:30.960 I was calling you and I had the conversation the other day about the 654 01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:35.159 PAPC changing doctrine, and I was arguing that they never changed their doctrine because 655 01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:38.960 it's always just been kissed the paper feet and what he said. I've been 656 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:43.679 thinking about that a lot lately, and I was about the certitude. And 657 01:02:43.800 --> 01:02:47.320 then when you put politics up as one as one of the possible talking points, 658 01:02:47.360 --> 01:02:52.239 it occurred to me that I was seeing himself like perhaps the only real 659 01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:57.400 sertitude is really offered is political certitude, in the sense of when you look 660 01:02:57.440 --> 01:03:02.639 at the liberation of Christian lance from Muslims obviously thought of an empire, the 661 01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:07.400 majority of those people, the majority of those nations doing that, were Catholications. 662 01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:10.159 And it seems to me that there is some merit to that argument, 663 01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:15.599 but it still doesn't apply theologically at all, which should be the main domain 664 01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:17.719 of the papacy. But even when you see the papacy going around the world, 665 01:03:19.239 --> 01:03:22.840 go France, around the world, he mentioned religion early at all. 666 01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:25.679 He just talked about politics all the time. So yeah, I mean this 667 01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:31.280 is this is an old critique that when the papacy took on this you know 668 01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:37.800 Dictatus Pope, Gregorian reform era, you know, Franco Papal and then Borgia 669 01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:44.000 Papal when they became a geopolitical world power, that this really enmessed them in 670 01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:47.760 putting politics first. And so this is why we get, you know, 671 01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:52.800 in the last century, so much CIA interaction with the papacy throughout the Cold 672 01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:58.360 War. I mean John Paul was meeting with Kissinger, and you know Colby 673 01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:00.880 and excuse mean not Colby, the other one. I always get this, 674 01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:06.880 those two mixed up the other c the trad cat CIA had during Reagan era, 675 01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:11.599 right John Paul was meeting with these people all the time because it was 676 01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:16.559 essentially a geopolitical power, and religion and theology, I would argue, became 677 01:04:16.760 --> 01:04:24.119 second way long ago. I think I'd agree with that. I think that's 678 01:04:24.960 --> 01:04:27.320 that was just something that came to my mind as a way to kind of 679 01:04:27.400 --> 01:04:31.280 explain because what do people always bring up is the earthly aspects of the religion. 680 01:04:31.440 --> 01:04:35.199 Oh, it's successful in this kindom appealing to the masses of people whatever 681 01:04:35.239 --> 01:04:40.039 they want to believe, doesn't matter when the theology is relevant. But I 682 01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:43.880 don't really think the papacy has ever done that or really focused on that aspect 683 01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:46.679 of its religion. I mean, it's most of the main accomplishments. You 684 01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:50.480 find that the Papacy are almost all political. I guess the other thing I 685 01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:55.519 did, I'm just done. I agree it on that one. The other 686 01:04:55.639 --> 01:05:00.159 thing I was going to bring up is I've been kind of there's a big 687 01:05:00.280 --> 01:05:04.880 movement obviously now to almost like feel like recontextualized Protestantism. I think there's deeply 688 01:05:04.960 --> 01:07:15.840 conservative all it is. Hold on, Okay, I found it all right. 689 01:07:15.920 --> 01:07:19.679 So, so, yeah, you were talking about the papacy being I'm 690 01:07:19.719 --> 01:07:23.800 just catching the chat up on. Basically, he was making the point that 691 01:07:24.039 --> 01:07:29.159 the papacy is kind of a committed geopolitical institution and that's led to a lot 692 01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:33.400 of corruption and basically the only accomplishments that they've ever had in the last a 693 01:07:33.519 --> 01:07:36.159 few centuries, over in the last thousand years has largely been a lot of 694 01:07:36.199 --> 01:07:40.840 geopolitical accomplishments. Yes, that's true. And then you were saying, well, 695 01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:44.559 why are so many Protestants whose denominations are only five or ten years old 696 01:07:44.920 --> 01:07:47.199 they claim to having this quote traditional idea of morality, And I was saying, 697 01:07:47.239 --> 01:07:49.840 well, the Protestants are just ignorant for the most part, but there's 698 01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:57.920 also NGO and foundation and government influence in Protestant churches as well. And this 699 01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:00.679 is a lot bigger than people think. I think this is really and overlooked. 700 01:08:00.519 --> 01:08:04.199 Thekraine, the Ukraine to Bakla has been a big window into how the 701 01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:09.480 deep state, how the State Department, how the CIA, how the Jesuits 702 01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:15.360 and all these entities are really instrumental in influencing what's happening in that sphere. 703 01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:20.479 Religiously for the behests of Uncle Sam and the Anglo American establishment. So in 704 01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:25.760 the same way, I think that if you go back to like ten fifteen 705 01:08:25.840 --> 01:08:30.520 years ago, remember the emergent Church movement was I went, this is several 706 01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:31.880 years ago, but I remember reading about, well, who's behind this, 707 01:08:32.119 --> 01:08:36.119 like who decided? Who decided that there's just suddenly this emergent church in the 708 01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:40.640 present world, out of nowhere, And that was all dreamt up and created 709 01:08:40.720 --> 01:08:47.880 by think tanks and social engineering groups. So you bet the what should we 710 01:08:48.000 --> 01:08:54.000 call it, sort of like a it's not even a shadow government because they're 711 01:08:54.039 --> 01:09:01.439 not hidden. It's in the public, right, go ahead. Absolutely, 712 01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:05.199 They're not even in that. They're pretty blatant with their manipulations openly at this 713 01:09:05.279 --> 01:09:12.359 point. I mean, the Ukrainian government is throwing Orthodox priests into gulags and 714 01:09:12.520 --> 01:09:16.319 God doing God knows what to them right openly and being and being praised by 715 01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:23.479 Protestants and Catholics and also in some Orthodox people as well. It's rather insane. 716 01:09:24.720 --> 01:09:28.800 Sure, yeah, I mean, hasn't the state always wanted to control 717 01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:32.399 the church? Absolutely? I mean this is literally the whole history of the 718 01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:39.319 iconic asm controversy is the state trying to control the church. All right, 719 01:09:39.399 --> 01:09:45.640 let's see who's the next playoff? What's up? Playoff? Jamie Russell, 720 01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:49.800 Christian Middle Earth. Either you come to the VC and stop spamming the chat, 721 01:09:49.960 --> 01:09:54.840 or you're gonna be booted. So you're not the first person in the 722 01:09:54.960 --> 01:09:59.479 history of the world to deal with this metaphysical problem has been dealt with for 723 01:09:59.720 --> 01:10:01.840 too thousand years in the history of the church. So either come on and 724 01:10:02.000 --> 01:10:12.800 chat or just leave playoff. What's up dude? Hey man, can you 725 01:10:12.800 --> 01:10:16.399 hear me? Okay, yes, sir? Best thing? Can you hear 726 01:10:16.479 --> 01:10:19.640 me? Yes? Oh, okay, good deal. Man. Hey, 727 01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:23.479 I just wanted to hop on here. I've been following you for probably a 728 01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:28.279 better part of a year now, love all your commentary and all that stuff. 729 01:10:28.359 --> 01:10:31.640 And so anyway, I'm a recent Catholic convert myself. I was a 730 01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:35.079 Protestant for twenty eight years, you know, one of those I guess non 731 01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:41.520 denominational types, and love hearing you talk about you know, just religion from 732 01:10:41.600 --> 01:10:45.920 many different aspects. But I was curious to get some commentary from you on 733 01:10:47.239 --> 01:10:53.960 where you think the source of misrepresentation of the Catholic Church comes from, and 734 01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:57.359 just so I'm clear, I'm not coming from an angle that the Catholic Church 735 01:10:57.479 --> 01:11:00.760 is this two thousand year old perfect being that is now ever, had you 736 01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:03.359 know any mistakes or anything like that, fully aware, there's some things that 737 01:11:03.479 --> 01:11:06.479 go on that are not great, as in a lot of places. But 738 01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:12.800 to me, there seems to be a deep seated misrepresentation that even kids from 739 01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:16.520 a very early age are being taught things that are just plain not true about 740 01:11:16.600 --> 01:11:19.439 the Catholic Church as well as the Orthodox Church. And so we'd love to 741 01:11:19.479 --> 01:11:24.439 get your thoughts on that well. I mean, I guess it's a combination 742 01:11:24.640 --> 01:11:29.119 of different things, so it wouldn't be like one simple answer as to why. 743 01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:32.439 I mean, does the mainstream media or the education system sometimes lie about 744 01:11:32.479 --> 01:11:38.279 the Roman Catholic Church. Sure, but that doesn't mean that that vindicates the 745 01:11:38.359 --> 01:11:43.279 Roman Catholic Church because it's opposed by the mainstream media, right, I mean, 746 01:11:43.880 --> 01:11:48.039 for example, mainstream media of mainstream education, they oppose a lot of 747 01:11:49.079 --> 01:11:55.239 fundamentalist Protestant church churches and sex. Does that make the Protestant churches in Sex 748 01:11:55.319 --> 01:11:58.760 true because the lefties and people like that oppose them. No, it has 749 01:11:58.840 --> 01:12:01.039 nothing to do with whether it's true or false. Right, So you can't 750 01:12:01.079 --> 01:12:08.600 take things that are indicators, in other words, the truth. You could 751 01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:12.479 say the true faith will be persecuted, but the fact that there's persecution going 752 01:12:12.560 --> 01:12:15.800 on doesn't mean that necessarily have the true faith. That's just one of the 753 01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:18.760 things that will happen in the true faith. It doesn't automatically become an indicator 754 01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:24.079 of the true faith because there's every group's persecuted somewhere. Right. Doesn't the 755 01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:29.199 Chinese government persecute certain dissidents or does that make the dissident group true because the 756 01:12:29.319 --> 01:12:34.279 Chinese government persecutes or whatnot. That's a fallacy, right, So I think 757 01:12:34.319 --> 01:12:38.399 that that does occur, like where you have people in the mainstream media that 758 01:12:38.840 --> 01:12:42.880 they don't know anything about theology, or in mainstream academia or whatever. They 759 01:12:42.920 --> 01:12:45.920 don't really care about the theology. They just see the Roman Catholic Church as 760 01:12:45.960 --> 01:12:51.079 this institution that symbolizes or represents the Bible and Christianity and all of it's supposed 761 01:12:51.199 --> 01:13:00.119 to you know, colonizing or whatever. Their nonsense is based on it. 762 01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:03.880 So that's part of it. But also a part of it is that that 763 01:13:04.039 --> 01:13:08.960 maybe they legitimately are right that the Roman Catholic Church and the institution of the 764 01:13:09.039 --> 01:13:16.319 papacy became a giant organized crime structure that fosters and funds all kinds of nonsense, 765 01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:20.960 and that their criticisms are correct. I mean, people are freaking out 766 01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:26.279 about Francis. It's like all the stuff has already been in the papacy for 767 01:13:26.359 --> 01:13:29.439 a long time. So what are you talking about. Francis just making stuff 768 01:13:29.600 --> 01:13:34.279 more public. Yeah, I'd have to agree on the Francis criticism. I 769 01:13:34.359 --> 01:13:40.239 don't think he's brought anything new to the table that if you followed any of 770 01:13:40.279 --> 01:13:44.199 the other popes and what they kind of preached, you know, is materially 771 01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:45.840 different. I think where I was going with it, though, is more 772 01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:53.000 so on the belief systems versus you know, Catholics and Protestants. It seems 773 01:13:53.119 --> 01:13:59.039 like that there's just like almost a boot camp out there that's anti Catholic and 774 01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:00.920 we're going to teach you things that are just you know, not true about 775 01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:06.159 the church to almost get you in our church. And my experience in Catholicism 776 01:14:06.279 --> 01:14:12.119 has been and again this is just my experience. We don't really care about 777 01:14:12.159 --> 01:14:15.359 what you're doing at your church. Here's what we do, here's why we 778 01:14:15.479 --> 01:14:18.399 think it's correct. You know, we're not here to really we'll talk and 779 01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:23.479 we'll have discussion, but we're not here to disprove what you're doing or tear 780 01:14:23.560 --> 01:14:27.399 you down or anything like that. And that was a really positive aspect that 781 01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:30.199 kind of drew me in. All right, well man, that might have 782 01:14:30.279 --> 01:14:35.439 just been your local experience of Catholicism. So, I mean, Roman Catholicism 783 01:14:35.640 --> 01:14:39.359 is what you want to make it, and it's all over the place. 784 01:14:39.520 --> 01:14:43.479 I mean Roman Catholicism at the time of urban The second was we need to 785 01:14:43.560 --> 01:14:49.800 call a military crusade to fight Islam. Roman Catholicism, according to Benedict and 786 01:14:49.880 --> 01:14:54.159 Francis, is that you can go pray in the mosques with the Muslims towards 787 01:14:54.199 --> 01:14:57.279 Mecca. So you tell me which of those is the real Roman Catholicism. 788 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:02.800 Yeah. I don't know enough about the history to comment one way or another. 789 01:15:03.800 --> 01:15:06.720 I think it's uh, you know, history has a has a tendency 790 01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:10.840 of changing people's minds. And then to your the first part of your comment 791 01:15:11.000 --> 01:15:13.880 just there. You know, from what I do know, I think there 792 01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:17.119 was some Christian persecution by you know, Islamic people back then, and maybe 793 01:15:17.199 --> 01:15:21.840 that's why there was some no, I agree. I agree with that, 794 01:15:23.000 --> 01:15:25.960 but that that's not the point. The point is not can you give a 795 01:15:26.119 --> 01:15:30.840 justification for the Crusades. The point is that the papacy now goes in and 796 01:15:30.960 --> 01:15:36.039 prays towards Mecca in Moss with other Muslims, right because Christians are still being 797 01:15:36.079 --> 01:15:42.000 persecuted today. And you know, no, no, no, do you 798 01:15:42.079 --> 01:15:44.239 not know that. I'm not trying to be mean to you, but you 799 01:15:44.359 --> 01:15:48.840 understand that that's a fundamental rejection of the Christian faith that Christians are No. 800 01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:56.159 Come on, man, I'm I'm trying really hard not to get mad to 801 01:15:56.239 --> 01:15:59.479 pray in a moss towards Mecca. Okay, I see what you're saying. 802 01:15:59.560 --> 01:16:03.439 Gotcha, Okay, gotcha. I was jumping ahead a few steps. Yeah, 803 01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:12.960 I would agree with your statement. Okay, and that works. How 804 01:16:13.239 --> 01:16:19.560 How does that make sense? I don't think it does. Well. That 805 01:16:19.760 --> 01:16:25.720 might be a source of why people are mad at the Roman Catholic Church legitimately. 806 01:16:26.520 --> 01:16:28.880 So maybe it's not all one side of the Oh, it's all the 807 01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:33.439 libtards or lying and they're creating Protestant groups to boot camps to come after Catholics. 808 01:16:33.760 --> 01:16:40.319 Maybe the Roman Catholic Church is doing things that legitimize a lot of the 809 01:16:40.359 --> 01:16:45.199 criticism, and that doesn't make the Protestant goobers correct. Yeah, I don't 810 01:16:45.199 --> 01:16:55.359 think it vindicates one side or the other. So I mean, look, 811 01:16:56.119 --> 01:17:00.920 it can't be true in nineteen twenty eight that it's a postasy to pray in 812 01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:10.600 other groups meetings, right, and then now it's the work of the Holy 813 01:17:10.680 --> 01:17:21.399 Spirit. Hello, sorry about that, I got a call. Look, 814 01:17:21.880 --> 01:17:27.239 how can it be true in nineteen twenty eight that it's apostasy to pray with 815 01:17:27.439 --> 01:17:31.960 other faiths and other religions together in a liturgical setting, and by the nineteen 816 01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:34.880 sixties and up until now it's now the work of the Holy Spirit to do 817 01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:39.199 the very thing that was apostle. How can that be true? It's a 818 01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:44.640 fair criticism, not a criticism. It's a contradiction. The only I guess 819 01:17:44.720 --> 01:17:46.680 parallel I could draw to it. Again, this is me only being Catholic 820 01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:50.119 for about a year now. Is you know before Vatican two there were no 821 01:17:50.279 --> 01:17:55.439 masses conducted in anything but Latin, And you know that's a fundamental part of 822 01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:59.000 the faith that changed. And so I'm not saying that that means, oh, 823 01:17:59.039 --> 01:18:01.359 everything can change and everything is subject to change, but that's the only 824 01:18:01.399 --> 01:18:05.479 frame of reference I would have on the first of all, the language that 825 01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:12.840 the liturgy is celebrated in is not a fundamental of the faith that's unchanging. 826 01:18:13.039 --> 01:18:15.560 Well, unless you wanted to argue that Pious the Fifth at the time of 827 01:18:15.640 --> 01:18:19.279 Trent argued that you could never change the Latin Mass. But I mean, 828 01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:24.600 from an Orthodox perspective, it's always supposed to be in the vernacular. I 829 01:18:24.680 --> 01:18:30.199 mean, but the point is that the Roman Catholic Church is unchanging in faith 830 01:18:30.319 --> 01:18:39.640 and morals, and praying together with others and apostle heretics heretical groups is a 831 01:18:39.880 --> 01:18:43.800 moral failure that puts you outside of the Roman Callolic Church and your canon law. 832 01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:47.920 That's an action of apostasy that removes you from the body of the Church. 833 01:18:48.439 --> 01:18:53.600 So it's not just saying that any kind of change. We're talking about 834 01:18:53.800 --> 01:18:58.760 changes in morals. For example, the death penalty was always seen as a 835 01:18:58.800 --> 01:19:02.760 part of natural justice in the traditional Roman Catholic moral theology, and Francis says, 836 01:19:02.760 --> 01:19:06.359 we don't do it anymore. It's changed. So we're not just talking 837 01:19:06.399 --> 01:19:11.199 about any kinds of changes at all. Everybody will admit there are some kinds 838 01:19:11.239 --> 01:19:15.399 of changes. We're talking about fundamental moral natural law changes and changes that now 839 01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:20.119 were apot Something can't be apostasy from the faith in nineteen twenty eight and be 840 01:19:20.439 --> 01:19:28.840 morally good. Now, how could apostasy flip to be good? Right? 841 01:19:29.159 --> 01:19:31.960 Yep, I'm definitely going to dig into that more. Yeah, read more 842 01:19:32.199 --> 01:19:38.319 Mortalium Animos of Pope Pius the eleventh from nineteen twenty eight. So I'm not 843 01:19:38.399 --> 01:19:44.039 trying to be mean. Just when you make these points. If I feel 844 01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:48.039 like somebody is going off into some other thing and ignoring what is the point, 845 01:19:49.479 --> 01:19:51.640 got to call them back to it. And that's just always how we 846 01:19:51.680 --> 01:19:57.600 are not being mean to you. Man, I'm meeting my cough drops. 847 01:20:00.039 --> 01:20:01.760 You gotta when you go down to the bottom of the Q, the Q, 848 01:20:02.000 --> 01:20:05.119 the quay, whatever, and you got the people with no with no 849 01:20:05.279 --> 01:20:12.920 profile picture, that's like usually the most crazy uh trollers. So Coco Ben 850 01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:17.920 looks like he's got no profile. Pick weird names. I feel like I 851 01:20:18.000 --> 01:20:21.199 got a troll. We need a little troll to break the to break the 852 01:20:21.279 --> 01:20:28.479 spell here what I say? What did I say? I can go? 853 01:20:28.760 --> 01:20:30.119 Am? I not good at spot in the trolls. He's on here playing 854 01:20:30.239 --> 01:20:34.279 his trying to learn he's trying to trying to learn black Saba the riffs, 855 01:20:36.159 --> 01:20:43.600 right, The dude wouldn't be so funny if like I got it in the 856 01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:45.760 stream, Like what if I was practicing base or like what if I was 857 01:20:45.800 --> 01:20:58.239 practicing like my blackstop of the risks? We got him do anytime it's the 858 01:20:58.520 --> 01:21:02.239 name at the very bottom with no profile, picture and just a bunch of 859 01:21:02.279 --> 01:21:08.079 gibberish. It's going to be a troll called it. Look, we got 860 01:21:08.119 --> 01:21:16.880 another one too. Let's save this a troll leth what's up, jay? 861 01:21:17.119 --> 01:21:23.079 I'm not a troll. I know I don't have a profile. Pick what's 862 01:21:23.159 --> 01:21:28.399 up now? Yeah, So I left Islam pretty recently. I'm going through 863 01:21:28.479 --> 01:21:32.920 catechism in the Orthodox Church. I just had a like a simple question. 864 01:21:34.000 --> 01:21:41.479 I'ven't gotten the answers about it. Okay, So about like self defense in 865 01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:45.720 times of war? What is the Orthodox Churches standing on, Like if you 866 01:21:45.760 --> 01:21:50.760 were to go serve in the army to defending country. Yeah, the traditional 867 01:21:51.039 --> 01:21:59.399 stance is outlined in the recent Russian Church statement on the Relationships of Church and 868 01:21:59.479 --> 01:22:03.319 State and social teaching. And you absolutely have a right and a duty to 869 01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:06.520 defend your homeland. And it's a virtuous action of love to do so, 870 01:22:06.640 --> 01:22:12.239 and that would include defending your family and anybody else who says otherwise is lying 871 01:22:12.560 --> 01:22:16.479 or they are subverters. Okay, yeah, no, and that makes sense 872 01:22:16.520 --> 01:22:23.359 because you know, personally so like my mom is a Protestant Christian, but 873 01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:29.600 she interprets where Jesus says those who fight by the sword shall die by the 874 01:22:29.640 --> 01:22:31.960 sword. I'm probably butchering that, but yeah, that's talking about people who 875 01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:36.119 want to live a criminal lifestyle. I'm talking about people like you know, 876 01:22:36.720 --> 01:22:42.479 mobsters who want to commit themselves to living a gang lifestyle. And the point 877 01:22:42.600 --> 01:22:45.479 is that live by the sword, die by the sword, all right. 878 01:22:45.560 --> 01:22:48.479 It's not talking about whether it's always wrong to be a soldier. In fact, 879 01:22:48.560 --> 01:22:54.800 this debate came up at the time of Nicea because there were errant Christians 880 01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:57.760 in the first three centuries who were trying to tell people that you couldn't be 881 01:22:57.840 --> 01:23:00.479 saved if you've been in a military or if you were in the Roman military. 882 01:23:00.560 --> 01:23:03.840 And the Council of Nicee you said in the Canons, there's nothing inherently 883 01:23:03.920 --> 01:23:10.119 wrong with being in the military if you're a soldier, and so there's nothing 884 01:23:10.239 --> 01:23:15.880 inherently wrong with any of that, and it's Marcianism and people misunderstanding and not 885 01:23:15.039 --> 01:23:18.119 putting what Jesus is saying into context with everything else he says, because in 886 01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:21.479 another verse he tells him to go grab a sword, sell your quotes him, 887 01:23:21.520 --> 01:23:26.239 buy a sword. So and I was confused about that too, and 888 01:23:26.319 --> 01:23:28.680 I was like, that doesn't make any sense. That was to fulfill the 889 01:23:28.720 --> 01:23:33.880 prophecy. Okay, yeah, because you know, people like to just I 890 01:23:33.920 --> 01:23:38.920 don't know, from the outside, it looks like Christianity is like a pacifistic 891 01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:42.079 religion. This is how I personally I used to interpret it. Yeah, 892 01:23:42.399 --> 01:23:46.239 And it's a legitimate criticism because in the last two three centuries, you know, 893 01:23:46.560 --> 01:23:53.039 Protestism is this degenerating, devolving thing that does turn into pacifism. And 894 01:23:53.159 --> 01:23:58.760 it's a legitimate criticism because as we were arguing earlier with the Marcianite guy or 895 01:23:58.800 --> 01:24:03.560 the guy attempt to mark, like Marcianism is the same pacifist emasculating tendency, 896 01:24:04.199 --> 01:24:11.319 right, And so I don't know where people just assume that that's what Christianity 897 01:24:11.439 --> 01:24:15.359 is all about. Not knowing history, not knowing the Old Testament, and 898 01:24:15.439 --> 01:24:17.479 if you look at the history of the Church, there have been countless warrior 899 01:24:17.560 --> 01:24:21.880 saints, countless kings who were saints who went to battle, countless there were 900 01:24:23.600 --> 01:24:30.239 entire brigades of soldiers in the Businessing Empire named after different saints. And so 901 01:24:30.399 --> 01:24:34.920 people are just lying because a lot of people want to turn the Church into 902 01:24:35.119 --> 01:24:40.359 a tool for ngeo and geopolitical powers. And that's why people like out of 903 01:24:40.439 --> 01:24:45.039 Fordom and all the Liby idiots they push pacifism and skittles. It all goes 904 01:24:45.079 --> 01:24:48.640 together because they want to change Christianity, want to change the Church into what 905 01:24:48.760 --> 01:24:53.520 they want it to be as a tool of the state department, as a 906 01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:57.520 tool. And it's not an accident that Francis did the exact same thing to 907 01:24:57.560 --> 01:25:00.720 say that death penalty is no longer viable. Well, it's contrary to the 908 01:25:00.760 --> 01:25:03.800 Gospel. Again, Roman Catholics, clear as they change. It's not lying 909 01:25:03.840 --> 01:25:08.560 when you said there's no changes. Francis says that that's always against the gospel. 910 01:25:09.640 --> 01:25:13.359 Yeah, go ahead, Yeah, yeah, that's fascinating man. Uh. 911 01:25:13.920 --> 01:25:15.720 And it's good to know. I mean, when I first started coming 912 01:25:15.760 --> 01:25:19.920 into Orthodoxy learning about the church, because personally, when I used to go 913 01:25:20.079 --> 01:25:23.760 back and forth with my mom, I thought I don't know if I'll ever 914 01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:28.159 become like a Protestant, like you know, they stand in church and you 915 01:25:28.239 --> 01:25:30.159 know, it's it's kind of like a concert and then the preacher kind of 916 01:25:30.199 --> 01:25:34.920 gives like a you know, like a I don't know, it's just nothing 917 01:25:35.039 --> 01:25:40.159 felt religious or traditional. So but yeah, that means, yeah, it's 918 01:25:40.199 --> 01:25:43.800 a it's a it's a it's a feel good self help lecture is basically what 919 01:25:45.359 --> 01:25:47.359 Yeah, yeah, well, I'm glad to hear that you left Islam, 920 01:25:47.399 --> 01:25:51.159 and that's good to hear. Praise go glad you're an Orthodox church. Yeah, 921 01:25:51.199 --> 01:25:54.359 you just have to watch out because uh, you know, there are 922 01:25:54.479 --> 01:25:58.000 unfortunately, you know, sections of the Orthodox world that are liberal too, 923 01:25:58.000 --> 01:25:59.640 and they're going to try to tell you that. I mean, I've heard 924 01:25:59.680 --> 01:26:03.079 all kinds of stories. I've myself seen people tell me in the Orthodox churches 925 01:26:03.079 --> 01:26:08.199 at times the old good is different good. I was told that in two 926 01:26:08.199 --> 01:26:10.600 thousand and seven is part of the reason I didn't become Orthodox. So it's 927 01:26:10.640 --> 01:26:15.279 so fundamentally stupid, and that they're telling me that Marcianism is the true Orthodox 928 01:26:15.319 --> 01:26:17.359 position. I'm like, dude, I've read against heresies. I read it 929 01:26:17.399 --> 01:26:23.279 back in the two thousands I know there's a giant section refuting Marcianism and you 930 01:26:23.359 --> 01:26:26.680 guys Orthodox people, oh we fall we love her and I so we were 931 01:26:26.680 --> 01:26:30.720 as you don't love her, an as you're a liar. You're contradicting a 932 01:26:30.800 --> 01:26:34.600 giant section of the book which says Marcian is a heretic. Meanwhile, you're 933 01:26:34.600 --> 01:26:44.479 telling me there's a Old Testament God's a different God, Josh, Hey, 934 01:26:44.640 --> 01:26:48.960 Jay, I was just wondering on your website, your Orthodoxy study, but 935 01:26:49.840 --> 01:26:54.560 isn't connected for a hyperleink. I was wondering if you could fix it or 936 01:26:54.640 --> 01:26:57.720 suggest one. Yeah, are you talking about in the book section or on 937 01:26:57.760 --> 01:27:00.680 the main page. He's not on the main page anymore. It's on your 938 01:27:00.880 --> 01:27:03.600 book section. It should go to Amazon. Does it not go to Amazon 939 01:27:03.640 --> 01:27:08.119 because that was the only place you could get it? No, I it 940 01:27:08.279 --> 01:27:11.039 just says the link's broken. Okay, well I'll try to fix that. 941 01:27:11.159 --> 01:27:14.680 Anything else? Uh? Yeah, I was wondering if you have a thing 942 01:27:14.800 --> 01:27:18.399 for a book of Enoch What do you mean a thing like I have a 943 01:27:18.479 --> 01:27:21.439 love? Like? Am I secretly attracted to it to have a thing for 944 01:27:21.560 --> 01:27:26.159 it? No? Like like just something to like learn more about it, 945 01:27:27.560 --> 01:27:31.359 like a suggestion. I haven't gone into depth on it. I mean, 946 01:27:31.600 --> 01:27:34.840 Jamie did a podcast on it, but they were just kind of looking at 947 01:27:34.840 --> 01:27:41.960 the contents of it. But I mean, I did a podcast years ago 948 01:27:42.039 --> 01:27:45.960 about Nephelim and all that. So, but I don't really have I don't 949 01:27:45.960 --> 01:27:50.039 really have any anything specific to the Book of Ennich though, good question there. 950 01:27:50.520 --> 01:27:53.520 Maybe I should do it. I should do a thing on the Book 951 01:27:53.520 --> 01:27:58.479 of Ennic eventually. Hey, Jamie, could you made me one more coffee? 952 01:27:59.079 --> 01:28:05.000 Thank you? Shout out to everybody on Papal Christmas Eve. By the 953 01:28:05.039 --> 01:28:09.279 way, I've just been joking controlling all these the spurgs in my chat are 954 01:28:09.279 --> 01:28:14.000 are trying to correct every little thing like this is this is this technically is 955 01:28:14.119 --> 01:28:15.920 blah blah blah blah, and I'm like, I'm just joking, man, 956 01:28:15.960 --> 01:28:19.680 It's just jokes, okay. And yes, I know that there are Orthodox 957 01:28:19.760 --> 01:28:27.800 churches on the Western calendar. Yeah, it's a joke. Man. We 958 01:28:27.920 --> 01:28:31.479 got a lot of people in line. But that's like I got a lot 959 01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:39.520 of coffe drops. So let's see Austin. Now, I gotta pick a 960 01:28:39.600 --> 01:28:46.640 name that sounds like they're ready to talk smack beyond polarity. Then that's that 961 01:28:46.760 --> 01:28:55.199 sounds like I do. That's ready to set you straight on philosophy. Yes, 962 01:28:55.239 --> 01:28:59.079 sir, all right, thanks for the opportunity to chat about this stuff, 963 01:28:59.079 --> 01:29:01.960 because it's very interesting. I like to do a lot of research and 964 01:29:02.039 --> 01:29:09.520 think about it. Things like this, Yeah, bout Marcian. It's funny 965 01:29:09.600 --> 01:29:15.279 to consider whether or not, you know, God is consistent through the Old 966 01:29:15.319 --> 01:29:18.680 in the New Testament. It's a it's an interesting question, and you know, 967 01:29:18.720 --> 01:29:23.279 I would like to I like to remember that the part where you know, 968 01:29:23.439 --> 01:29:27.439 Jesus is talking to a bunch of people and then there's these kids that 969 01:29:27.600 --> 01:29:30.760 come and he looks at the kids and they're like, no, get away, 970 01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:36.239 and the kid goes, you're you're ugly, and then he like summons 971 01:29:36.359 --> 01:29:43.560 these bears and the bears slaughter the children, talking about that's not Jesus, 972 01:29:44.600 --> 01:29:48.840 that's I'm gonna Liijah. Right. Oh yeah, that's right, that's right. 973 01:29:48.920 --> 01:29:53.880 That would be silly if if Jesus, instead of saying let the children 974 01:29:53.960 --> 01:29:59.159 come, had him slaughtered. Oh oh, he put a trap on me, 975 01:29:59.319 --> 01:30:01.239 right, because he think have you looked at any of the extra Jesus 976 01:30:01.319 --> 01:30:10.119 of that passage. I've I've looked at a lot of the scriptures, and 977 01:30:11.920 --> 01:30:15.159 but I I just want to talk to you without going through you know, 978 01:30:15.399 --> 01:30:20.359 theological lingo, just like rational and reals and like how do you you're Orthodox? 979 01:30:20.640 --> 01:30:28.960 Kind of Okay? Who for you has authority on truth? Like where 980 01:30:28.960 --> 01:30:32.479 do you get your truth from? Ultimately it would be divine revelation, So 981 01:30:32.600 --> 01:30:38.079 that would be the totality of the depositive faith committed to scriptures and to the 982 01:30:38.159 --> 01:30:44.159 tradition of the church. Okay, but you're you're making a lot of critiques 983 01:30:44.199 --> 01:30:47.399 about the church, right, about the Roman Catholic Church, about the Orthodox 984 01:30:47.520 --> 01:30:53.359 Church. So sure, but how does that that that doesn't negate the position. 985 01:30:54.600 --> 01:30:57.960 Well, I'm just trying to understand how you come to your conclusions. 986 01:30:58.039 --> 01:31:00.039 Like, if I am going to be alive with truth, should I just 987 01:31:00.159 --> 01:31:04.279 like follow everything that you believe. No, you follow whether the arguments are 988 01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:09.800 solid or not. Right, So you're confusing me with the arguments. So 989 01:31:09.960 --> 01:31:12.720 no, it's not about following me. It's who has the better argument. 990 01:31:13.680 --> 01:31:17.479 Okay, So that's it's more about like us and our logic and reason rather 991 01:31:17.560 --> 01:31:23.239 than the scriptures and the tradition. Well, I don't believe that the logic 992 01:31:23.359 --> 01:31:27.000 and reasoning is out of accord with scriptures. I think that the scriptures are 993 01:31:27.359 --> 01:31:30.079 I think divine revelation is itself the basis and the grounding for how we can 994 01:31:30.199 --> 01:31:36.039 have logic and reasoning at all. Okay, but you you also were critiking 995 01:31:36.199 --> 01:31:42.640 people that take the Bible as like the foundation is it? Do you believe 996 01:31:42.680 --> 01:31:45.920 that it's No, I was critiking people that believe the Bible alone is a 997 01:31:45.039 --> 01:31:50.039 foundation. That's the Protestant you Okay, I got you. So it's the 998 01:31:50.119 --> 01:31:55.119 tradition, so they get both. How many popes like, where did it 999 01:31:55.159 --> 01:31:58.079 go off the rails in your opinion? Well, I mean the Orthodox Church 1000 01:31:58.680 --> 01:32:03.359 dates the schism to in fifty four officially, but the Roman Catholic Church dogmatically 1001 01:32:03.520 --> 01:32:09.560 teaches error at the counts of Lions in twelve seventy four. Okay, So 1002 01:32:09.720 --> 01:32:15.680 in that case, I mean back back then, before that that riff. 1003 01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:18.479 Do you think that everything that the church was doing was good and that we 1004 01:32:18.520 --> 01:32:23.439 should go back to that? Well, you say everything that the church was 1005 01:32:23.479 --> 01:32:27.600 doing because the church is a lot of people, So everybody in the church 1006 01:32:27.760 --> 01:32:30.319 is I mean, people individually make mistakes, but we don't I'm not talking 1007 01:32:30.319 --> 01:32:33.640 about individually. I mean just like the church you said everything and everybody. 1008 01:32:33.800 --> 01:32:36.760 So well, let me just let me tell you what I mean. I 1009 01:32:36.880 --> 01:32:42.479 mean the church, what they espouse, the higher the head of the church. 1010 01:32:42.680 --> 01:32:45.479 But the doctrine was, well, we're not pope, so we don't 1011 01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:51.359 have a head of the church. I'm not asking, I'm not saying you're 1012 01:32:51.359 --> 01:32:55.359 the head of the church. I'm just saying, no, we don't believe 1013 01:32:55.399 --> 01:32:58.319 that there's heads of the church. There's not a we're not papists. So 1014 01:32:58.640 --> 01:33:00.840 you're saying what the head of the church does is bad and there is no 1015 01:33:00.920 --> 01:33:03.640 head of the church. Okay, what's the difference in the rift? What 1016 01:33:03.800 --> 01:33:08.800 is the main rift about the role of the pope and the doctrine of the 1017 01:33:08.840 --> 01:33:15.920 philioque? Okay, so what went wrong? In your opinion? The papacy 1018 01:33:16.359 --> 01:33:25.039 became lustful for worldly power, and over many centuries conceded more and more to 1019 01:33:25.399 --> 01:33:30.319 grasping at worldly power, and by eventually, say eleven twelfth century, the 1020 01:33:30.399 --> 01:33:35.319 Gregorian reforms, they pretty much proclaimed themselves to be god emperors. If you 1021 01:33:35.359 --> 01:33:41.239 look at something like Dictatus pape in twelve seventy four. So that's I think 1022 01:33:41.279 --> 01:33:46.960 the root of it is pride and grasping for geopolitical power. Fair enough, 1023 01:33:48.319 --> 01:33:55.479 And you mentioned earlier capital punishment, and if I recall correctly, the church 1024 01:33:56.359 --> 01:33:59.920 was burning a lot of people. Do you think that was a good thing? 1025 01:34:00.880 --> 01:34:03.359 Yeah, So you're talking about the Spanish Inquisition, which burned a couple 1026 01:34:03.479 --> 01:34:06.920 thousand people in the Midy in the late Middle Ages in the West, because 1027 01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:14.359 that didn't happen in the Orthodize Church. Okay, So before ten hundred they 1028 01:34:14.359 --> 01:34:21.479 didn't burn anybody in the stake No, okay? Interesting, And so your 1029 01:34:23.439 --> 01:34:29.880 authority comes from different? Where does your authority come from? So you've asked 1030 01:34:29.880 --> 01:34:34.520 me about my position? What's your position? Yeah, it's it's evolved over 1031 01:34:34.640 --> 01:34:41.560 time, basically. I The first thing that kind of like woke me up 1032 01:34:41.680 --> 01:34:47.039 spiritually, I would say, was jesus teachings right the gospels m hmm. 1033 01:34:47.159 --> 01:34:53.119 And one of the things that repeated throughout, you know, is the love 1034 01:34:53.239 --> 01:34:57.880 of the truth. And that always resonated with me. So what about when 1035 01:34:58.000 --> 01:35:01.199 Jesus identifies what about when Jesus identifies himself as the one who's the God of 1036 01:35:01.199 --> 01:35:04.399 the Old Testament? How does that fit with how does that fit with your 1037 01:35:04.479 --> 01:35:10.199 argument earlier about elishaw, which you mixed up with Jesus. Well, tell 1038 01:35:10.239 --> 01:35:19.199 me where he says that in which gospel and which So you're spiritually awakened by 1039 01:35:19.239 --> 01:35:23.399 the teachings of Christ, but you're not aware of any places in the gospels 1040 01:35:23.399 --> 01:35:26.279 where he identifies himself as the God of the oldest. I want to hear 1041 01:35:26.359 --> 01:35:28.920 your argument. I'm familiar. I just don't know, like where you stand 1042 01:35:29.239 --> 01:35:33.439 believe? Okay, John five through nine he identifies himself as the God at 1043 01:35:33.520 --> 01:35:36.800 Mount sign I talking to Moses, and as the God of Abraham who ate 1044 01:35:36.880 --> 01:35:44.279 with him. Okay, So well, I don't take every scripture and every 1045 01:35:44.359 --> 01:35:47.840 word is in errant, right, So it's ad hoc. It's the places 1046 01:35:47.880 --> 01:35:50.199 that you don't like you throw out that's called ad hoc. Right. Well, 1047 01:35:50.239 --> 01:35:55.319 I mean, yeah, yeah, that's right, it's ad hoc. 1048 01:35:55.720 --> 01:35:58.399 Right. So I like that you admit you're at hoc. No, I 1049 01:35:58.560 --> 01:36:02.439 cher everybody cheering pats your cherry pick? How did I? I don't. 1050 01:36:02.640 --> 01:36:06.600 I don't think everybody I don't. But you're just asserting that what's your proof 1051 01:36:06.640 --> 01:36:11.800 that everyone cherry picks? Where did I cherry pick? If you're going to 1052 01:36:11.880 --> 01:36:15.000 give a sermon, you're going to choose scriptures. That's not the same thing 1053 01:36:15.039 --> 01:36:18.920 as cherry picking. Do you know what you're talking about, what you're going 1054 01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:24.520 to talk about and which that's not the same thing as cherry picking. Inconsistently 1055 01:36:24.720 --> 01:36:28.479 to ad hoc create a position, Those are two different things. Look again, 1056 01:36:28.920 --> 01:36:31.239 I'm telling you my position. My loyalty is to the truth. Okay, 1057 01:36:31.359 --> 01:36:33.960 what is the truth? And as you said, it's ad hoc picking 1058 01:36:34.000 --> 01:36:38.800 the scriptures you like and don't like. That's not truth. It's outside of 1059 01:36:38.920 --> 01:36:41.560 you and me and our thoughts. Okay, what is it? God? 1060 01:36:42.079 --> 01:36:44.920 It is God? Your truth is God? Okay? How do you know 1061 01:36:45.039 --> 01:36:48.399 that it's God and not your delusion? That's a great question. Is something 1062 01:36:48.439 --> 01:36:51.840 that we're all aspiring towards and we're working on. Okay, So how do 1063 01:36:51.960 --> 01:36:56.760 we how do we judge between so between my position and your position? How 1064 01:36:56.760 --> 01:37:00.520 do we judge between what's true and what's false? Which gospels were written? 1065 01:37:00.840 --> 01:37:04.439 I don't think you have any idea at all what you're talking about at all, 1066 01:37:05.199 --> 01:37:09.880 Like literally no idea what you're talking about? Which gospel was written? 1067 01:37:10.000 --> 01:37:16.359 Last? What scholars are you relying on for the dating? Okay, you 1068 01:37:16.359 --> 01:37:21.840 don't know. It's John and I know what scholars? I don't know how 1069 01:37:21.880 --> 01:37:27.520 you know that you're saying that, how do you know that? I know 1070 01:37:27.640 --> 01:37:30.359 what scholarship says about the datings of the gospels, right, I know that 1071 01:37:30.399 --> 01:37:32.239 they think John is the last right, So do you think it is or 1072 01:37:32.279 --> 01:37:36.079 not? I don't even think it's relevant to this question, because that has 1073 01:37:36.159 --> 01:37:40.119 nothing to do with whether you know it's true or false and how you know 1074 01:37:40.199 --> 01:37:44.119 which things to choose. That's the question I'm asking an epistemic question. Yeah, 1075 01:37:44.479 --> 01:37:46.880 and I'm trying to elaborate on why. Okay, but you're relying on 1076 01:37:47.039 --> 01:37:49.520 things that don't answer that. You're saying, well, the dating of the 1077 01:37:49.560 --> 01:37:53.079 Gospel? What does the dating of it have to do with how you know 1078 01:37:53.560 --> 01:37:57.479 which parts are true and false? What's the epistemic principle? Here's the logic 1079 01:37:57.560 --> 01:38:01.880 on it, right, let me elaborate. You have four Gospels written at 1080 01:38:01.880 --> 01:38:08.079 different times most credible scholars. I asked you an epistemic question. No, 1081 01:38:08.199 --> 01:38:11.039 you're not. I don't think you even understand what that is. You're just 1082 01:38:11.159 --> 01:38:15.359 telling me questions that don't answer the You're answering with things that don't answer the 1083 01:38:15.439 --> 01:38:18.439 epistemic question. You don't know what I'm answering. It's not an answer, 1084 01:38:18.560 --> 01:38:21.600 because I can already tell where you're going. You're talking about most scholars. 1085 01:38:21.720 --> 01:38:29.640 That's when you cite most scholars as your next sentence, who's begging the qu 1086 01:38:29.720 --> 01:38:31.560 you understand what begging? The question is? How do you know you've chosen 1087 01:38:31.600 --> 01:38:36.000 the right scholars? Yeah? How do you know? That's a two quoque 1088 01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:40.640 way. I'm asking you the questions I already answered, So fallacy, fallacy? 1089 01:38:40.920 --> 01:38:45.079 Can you stop with the fallacies? I what is the episody? I 1090 01:38:45.159 --> 01:38:48.800 know? And I'm asking a specific question about epistemic principle as to how you 1091 01:38:48.880 --> 01:38:53.800 know what you're choosing? What is that? And you said the scholars that 1092 01:38:53.880 --> 01:38:57.479 are reliable begs, that's not an epistemic question. So I can just you 1093 01:38:57.600 --> 01:39:00.520 understand. I can just say the scholars that I like? Does it? 1094 01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:02.640 Would you accept that? Hey? Logic and reason? That's what you do 1095 01:39:02.760 --> 01:39:06.119 too? You think you think I just sit here and say logic and reason. 1096 01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:12.199 So the response is just to say logic and reason. Wait, that's 1097 01:39:12.239 --> 01:39:15.159 what you said, Oh my gosh, are you serious? What can we 1098 01:39:15.359 --> 01:39:19.000 help you in some way? Like? Is there a facility nearby that we 1099 01:39:19.119 --> 01:39:24.279 could help you to? Do you even understand the questions what do you know 1100 01:39:24.319 --> 01:39:30.039 what an epistemic question is? What is that? What is the principle of 1101 01:39:30.159 --> 01:39:33.920 believing what is true? Well, it's right. The principle as to how 1102 01:39:33.920 --> 01:39:39.640 we would know western and false correct correct? Being very competitive, it's called 1103 01:39:39.680 --> 01:39:43.279 a debate stream. What is the what is the first word in the sind? 1104 01:39:44.039 --> 01:39:47.039 Well, I'm not upset. I'm not upset. I just put it. 1105 01:39:47.119 --> 01:39:51.680 I don't put up with stupid answers. Yeah, because you tried to 1106 01:39:51.760 --> 01:39:57.840 trap me with your first question about Elisha, Right, you think it's funny. 1107 01:39:58.000 --> 01:40:00.800 So here you're giggling. You can't answer a basic question. You're over 1108 01:40:00.840 --> 01:40:04.640 here giggling. Now you're trying to act like you're all primed questions. You 1109 01:40:04.720 --> 01:40:10.000 didn't answer anything. You just stated that we rely on certain scholars. That's 1110 01:40:10.039 --> 01:40:15.199 begging the question. Saying certain scholars is not an epistemic principle. It's connected 1111 01:40:15.279 --> 01:40:18.960 with using logic and reason. How do you know you're using the right logic 1112 01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:26.319 and reasoning. I'll answer if finish, you just keep staying go, okay, 1113 01:40:26.399 --> 01:40:38.479 so there are I mean, yeah, so you exactly that's very childishaw 1114 01:40:38.479 --> 01:40:43.720 you Yeah, because I don't put up with your arrogant condescending gnostic bull crap. 1115 01:40:43.840 --> 01:40:46.319 Dude, I'm asking you a question. The gospels all written. My 1116 01:40:46.520 --> 01:40:49.880 question was, what's your epistemic principle? Has not been answered? You're asking 1117 01:40:49.920 --> 01:40:56.520 me a question. Okay, so yeah, you're not a very good debater. 1118 01:40:57.279 --> 01:40:59.960 I'm not a good debater, right so, you who has never debated 1119 01:41:00.119 --> 01:41:02.199 anybody. I've debated the top people in the world. I'm not a good 1120 01:41:02.199 --> 01:41:05.479 debater. You don't even know what you're debating. You're lost, you're flustered. 1121 01:41:06.079 --> 01:41:09.680 I'm trying to help you out, but you think I'm just being mean. 1122 01:41:10.039 --> 01:41:14.000 You're so arrogant that you can't understand. What's that root here? What's 1123 01:41:14.039 --> 01:41:16.560 that question? Do you understand that? Do you see that? What's your 1124 01:41:16.600 --> 01:41:23.319 epistemic principle? What's your epistemic principle? Don't interrupt me and I'll tell you 1125 01:41:23.439 --> 01:41:30.159 what's your epistemic principles. If you don't answer, I'm gonna boot you because 1126 01:41:30.399 --> 01:41:34.319 I'm asking you this about twenty times. What's the epistemic principle? What's the 1127 01:41:34.399 --> 01:41:42.439 epistemic principle? If you keep bitching, I'm gonna boot you all. This 1128 01:41:42.600 --> 01:41:47.439 is a time waste, this is filibustering. What's the epistemic principle? What 1129 01:41:47.640 --> 01:41:53.319 is it? It's like you said, logic and reason Just saying logic and 1130 01:41:53.399 --> 01:42:00.840 reasoning is not a justification exactly. This is what you get with the idiocy. 1131 01:42:00.720 --> 01:42:16.840 This is what gnosticism gives you, idiocy. Next up and merely this 1132 01:42:17.000 --> 01:42:25.800 sounds like a treasure. Hi. Hello there, Yeah, oh my goodness. 1133 01:42:27.039 --> 01:42:35.600 Happy Christmas to everyone. Although this is a partisan festivity that I'm not 1134 01:42:35.720 --> 01:42:42.319 agree with, but anyway, it's just for say hello to everyone. I 1135 01:42:42.520 --> 01:42:48.720 want to take a point, which is I think the most important. Look, 1136 01:42:49.079 --> 01:42:54.720 it's very simple. Is there golden rule that Jesus Christ show us with 1137 01:42:55.119 --> 01:43:00.439 his actions? By the fruit you will know them. Jesus Christ was there 1138 01:43:00.520 --> 01:43:08.359 all around telling the truth, going in and out of prison because he was 1139 01:43:09.359 --> 01:43:16.680 a leader of anarchists that will not believe in any power. You are totally 1140 01:43:16.800 --> 01:43:21.000 off, no idea what you're talking about. You're completely listen to me. 1141 01:43:21.199 --> 01:43:24.239 Listen to me. Wait, wait a meaning, No, I'm not going 1142 01:43:24.319 --> 01:43:27.000 to listen to you. What are you talking about? Jesus is an anarchist? 1143 01:43:27.079 --> 01:43:30.800 What are you talking about? Jesus Christ? You've never read the gospels? 1144 01:43:30.920 --> 01:43:33.439 What are you talking He's not an anarchist. I read everything, You've 1145 01:43:33.479 --> 01:43:40.000 read everything. Yes, I was kidnapped and I was raped with nine years 1146 01:43:40.039 --> 01:43:45.119 old, and I sought for God with nine years old. I know what 1147 01:43:45.319 --> 01:43:56.279 trauma is moving on. It's almost like that's why I've agreed to just accept 1148 01:43:56.399 --> 01:43:59.600 the mental illness of all of this, because we know we're not going to 1149 01:43:59.640 --> 01:44:03.840 get an actual debate, so we might as well just have the mentally ill 1150 01:44:03.920 --> 01:44:11.439 people just saying just gibberish. The gnostics just flustering and giggling and yelling. 1151 01:44:15.680 --> 01:44:18.119 Let's see. And I'm trying to choose the craziest looking It's working so far, 1152 01:44:18.279 --> 01:44:20.840 Like I'm trying to choose, like looking at the profile, like, 1153 01:44:20.840 --> 01:44:25.399 all right, that's going to be a Gnostic goober. Let's see, Let's 1154 01:44:25.399 --> 01:44:36.359 pick another. What's the most goofy looking something? Over here? Here's another 1155 01:44:38.000 --> 01:44:50.399 pictureless profile. These are always the best, can you hear me? Yes, 1156 01:44:50.439 --> 01:44:57.199 sir, Hello Jay, I'm a really big fan of you. I 1157 01:44:57.479 --> 01:45:01.239 just, first of all, excuse me if I sound a little bit off, 1158 01:45:01.359 --> 01:45:06.119 but I'm a little bit tipsy because I just got back from a family 1159 01:45:08.319 --> 01:45:15.039 m like dinner because it's Christmas Eve even all, so I just want to 1160 01:45:15.439 --> 01:45:18.560 well, First of all, I just want to say that I'm a Roman 1161 01:45:18.640 --> 01:45:27.439 Catholic, and I just want to tell you that I agree with a lot 1162 01:45:27.520 --> 01:45:32.000 of what you say when it comes to Roman Catholicism. I feel like when 1163 01:45:32.079 --> 01:45:42.439 it comes to our faith in particular, I think I think Vatican too. 1164 01:45:43.720 --> 01:45:49.520 It's my whole thing with Vatican two is that I think it was just a 1165 01:45:49.640 --> 01:45:56.199 complete another like it wasn't even part of the church. Like I think it 1166 01:45:56.319 --> 01:46:03.960 was just a experiment done by elites. It's not even it's not a part 1167 01:46:04.000 --> 01:46:08.239 of the church, even though it was confirmed by the Pope for the entire 1168 01:46:08.359 --> 01:46:12.439 church with full Apisolic authority on faith and morals. Sure, but it's not 1169 01:46:12.560 --> 01:46:17.079 part of the church. Yeah, exactly, Sure, good job. That's 1170 01:46:17.159 --> 01:46:28.760 why tradcats have to drink to cope. So moving on, I want to 1171 01:46:28.760 --> 01:46:32.000 remind you guys that we have a mini sponsor here. Why is this not 1172 01:46:32.119 --> 01:46:42.640 working? You got me to I'm sassy today. I'm sorry, I'm sassy. 1173 01:46:42.640 --> 01:46:44.920 I don't know what you want from me. I said I was gonna 1174 01:46:44.920 --> 01:46:50.359 be humble Protestant pastor, telling you everything you wanted to hear. But I've 1175 01:46:50.399 --> 01:46:56.439 turned into a mean man again. I tried within how long have we been 1176 01:46:56.479 --> 01:47:01.960 going? Within one hour, I got mean, within one hour of gnostic 1177 01:47:02.119 --> 01:47:12.359 nonsense, gibbering, flustered incoherence, and then we had a drunk foreign whatever 1178 01:47:12.520 --> 01:47:16.439 she was woman yelling at me that Jesus is an anarchist. I'm immediately a 1179 01:47:16.520 --> 01:47:23.600 mean man. So I guess it's just time to give up the Year of 1180 01:47:23.680 --> 01:47:27.520 Love twenty twenty four. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm gonna 1181 01:47:27.560 --> 01:47:35.279 keep striving guys to listen. People who are always fussing about what I do, 1182 01:47:35.520 --> 01:47:40.359 like they don't know what it's like to have an actual debate. And 1183 01:47:40.439 --> 01:47:44.560 the reason that people think I'm interrupting people, they think that I'm being mean, 1184 01:47:44.760 --> 01:47:48.880 or that I just don't want to answer their questions, or I'm scared 1185 01:47:48.920 --> 01:47:53.159 to let them have a chance to answer. And it's none of that at 1186 01:47:53.199 --> 01:47:56.760 all. It's because when I ask a person a question in an exchange. 1187 01:47:56.800 --> 01:48:01.039 Now you notice in that exchange, I let him ask me about five questions 1188 01:48:01.079 --> 01:48:03.520 about my views, right, and I answered all of his views or all 1189 01:48:03.520 --> 01:48:10.479 of his questions. Then I asked him like one or two questions right, 1190 01:48:12.119 --> 01:48:17.760 And when he started to answer, he was immediately going to an assertion a 1191 01:48:17.880 --> 01:48:24.439 claim that doesn't answer and avoids the question I'm asking. So, if I'm 1192 01:48:24.439 --> 01:48:30.079 asking for an epistemic principle and he says, based on the scholars that are 1193 01:48:30.159 --> 01:48:32.520 reliable that I know that's not an epistemic principle, or if he thinks it 1194 01:48:32.680 --> 01:48:39.039 is, it's very easy to refute. Do you understand? And I when 1195 01:48:39.039 --> 01:48:41.680 I ask him, what do you think an episomic principle is? And he 1196 01:48:41.760 --> 01:48:46.039 says, well, it's like logic and reason. Like you say, yeah, 1197 01:48:46.119 --> 01:48:48.800 but now you're gonna have to give an account for logic and reasoning. 1198 01:48:48.960 --> 01:48:53.199 It doesn't You can't just say, oh, I appeal to logic and reason, 1199 01:48:53.720 --> 01:48:56.840 like there's some dudes over there that helped me out. Like I'm in 1200 01:48:56.880 --> 01:48:59.800 the middle of the debate and I'm over here, like, hey, hey, 1201 01:49:00.159 --> 01:49:02.359 logic, come over here, dude, bring your friend reason. Tell 1202 01:49:02.439 --> 01:49:08.560 me what the answer is. Oh, my appeal is to my buddy's logic 1203 01:49:08.640 --> 01:49:13.880 and reason. The rap duo logic good reason. Right. You can't just 1204 01:49:14.000 --> 01:49:18.600 say logic, how's to give? You have to give an account good grief. 1205 01:49:21.920 --> 01:49:27.199 By the way, there's actually a really good Extrajesus of the Bearer's passage 1206 01:49:29.000 --> 01:49:32.600 in James Jordan's book where he covers the fact that the word that's used there 1207 01:49:32.680 --> 01:49:36.000 is not infants, right, It's like it's like forty infants. We're just 1208 01:49:36.159 --> 01:49:41.520 rolling around the streets of Jerusalem, and Elijah was over there like just calling 1209 01:49:41.600 --> 01:49:46.039 out bears to mall infants. The word is like young youth, gang like 1210 01:49:46.199 --> 01:49:54.399 teens, troubled, evil teens. And to mock a person who's a known 1211 01:49:54.479 --> 01:50:03.239 representative and voice of God is to mock God himself. So we're basically we're 1212 01:50:03.239 --> 01:50:11.159 talking about the sharks and the jets here dissing God prophet, and the bear 1213 01:50:11.319 --> 01:50:17.640 comes out and destroys the evil teens, not a bunch of babies goo goo 1214 01:50:17.800 --> 01:50:24.520 ga gay crawling through the streets of Jerusalem. And then the prophet is out 1215 01:50:24.560 --> 01:50:30.520 of nowhere. Bear get them. That's so stupid. There are a bunch 1216 01:50:30.520 --> 01:50:35.239 of young punks, dude. But he that wasn't even gonna go. Yeah, 1217 01:50:35.239 --> 01:50:40.960 it wasn't even go. And I go there. I mean that was 1218 01:50:41.079 --> 01:50:45.600 like we are speaking different languages. I think, like because when we when 1219 01:50:45.640 --> 01:50:48.680 I talk about what it like when we ask people for a justification for their 1220 01:50:49.359 --> 01:50:54.319 beliefs, for their principles, like they have they still have no idea what 1221 01:50:54.359 --> 01:50:56.079 we're talking about. By the way, if you want to support us, 1222 01:50:56.880 --> 01:51:00.840 we have a new mini sponsor here with Lower Coffee. This is an organic 1223 01:51:00.960 --> 01:51:08.600 coffee company and you can purchase Lore right there. Go check out their stuff, 1224 01:51:08.720 --> 01:51:11.560 use the promo code. Actually, I think you just use that affiliate 1225 01:51:11.640 --> 01:51:16.000 link right there, and you support also FDA as well if you would like 1226 01:51:16.119 --> 01:51:31.479 to get some coffee. Good grief. So again, people don't People don't 1227 01:51:31.520 --> 01:51:35.000 even know what debate is. They have no idea how it works, how 1228 01:51:35.039 --> 01:51:40.439 it functions, and they literally think when I'm calling people back from trying to 1229 01:51:40.840 --> 01:51:44.920 use red herrings, that it's all just tricks and tactics and I'm being mean, 1230 01:51:45.479 --> 01:51:50.560 man, it's just super stupid, like you really. So let's say 1231 01:51:50.640 --> 01:51:55.640 that we're playing chess, and let's say that you guys are watching me play 1232 01:51:55.760 --> 01:52:01.079 chess with somebody online. It's a live stream of a chess match, and 1233 01:52:01.479 --> 01:52:06.520 I'm over here doing chess things, and then the other person comes and says, 1234 01:52:08.279 --> 01:52:13.319 oh, here's my checker piece, and I'm going to knock over your 1235 01:52:13.399 --> 01:52:18.960 king with my checker piece. I win. What would you all think about 1236 01:52:19.000 --> 01:52:27.760 that? You would think it's ridiculous it's an invalid move. Checker pieces don't 1237 01:52:27.800 --> 01:52:30.079 work in this game. That's a violation of the rules of this game. 1238 01:52:31.640 --> 01:52:38.479 Likewise, debate functions on rules. You don't just make them up. They're 1239 01:52:38.479 --> 01:52:42.239 not arbitrary. You can't pick and choose. Well, we all pick and 1240 01:52:42.319 --> 01:52:46.920 choose. I mean, like he's confused. Picking and choosing is not the 1241 01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:50.840 same thing as picking verses to talk about. I mean, it was just 1242 01:52:50.960 --> 01:53:00.039 like unbelievable. But yeah, so again, why why you not debate people 1243 01:53:00.159 --> 01:53:06.000 who literally have absolutely no knowledge. It's like you have no knowledge of what 1244 01:53:06.039 --> 01:53:19.479 you're talking about people in the chat. It was ridiculous. I mean, 1245 01:53:21.239 --> 01:53:24.960 you don't know what you don't know. That's what I'm trying to convey to 1246 01:53:25.000 --> 01:53:27.640 you. And you just want to sit there and giggle like you think, 1247 01:53:27.880 --> 01:53:30.479 like you think you're winning or getting something over on me or something. It's 1248 01:53:30.640 --> 01:53:36.680 it's not harming me, dude, it's harming you. I want you guys 1249 01:53:36.760 --> 01:53:42.239 to call in that are fussing in the chat. Just call in. It's 1250 01:53:42.279 --> 01:53:50.319 an open forum. It's his golden opportunities here. Let's see Jean Sant JJ 1251 01:53:50.560 --> 01:53:55.399 page. Uh. Oh, anybody that's got an old eighteen hundreds looking dude 1252 01:53:55.520 --> 01:54:10.399 in their profile. We know that's going to be trouble. You gotta I'm 1253 01:54:10.439 --> 01:54:16.000 mute, man, I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. What did you 1254 01:54:16.039 --> 01:54:25.000 say? I'm mute. What's what's on your mind? Interesting? So, 1255 01:54:25.880 --> 01:54:29.479 Jay, I'm not really familiar with you. I'm I just kind of stumbled 1256 01:54:29.520 --> 01:54:34.479 upon this space. I was interested. What is your what is your view 1257 01:54:34.640 --> 01:54:40.199 on God or what is your religion? So to speak? Orthodox Christian? 1258 01:54:40.439 --> 01:54:45.439 I believe God is a trinity and I affirm the traditional Orthodox Catholic view. 1259 01:54:49.920 --> 01:55:00.359 What about you? I am inquiring into Catholicism right now. I'm not Catholic, 1260 01:55:00.560 --> 01:55:06.920 but I tend Mass regularly. What what would make you choose Roman Catholicism. 1261 01:55:12.960 --> 01:55:15.199 Well, I'm just kind of inquiry into it right now. I do 1262 01:55:15.479 --> 01:55:23.600 believe that the pope and the structure of the church is like descendant from the 1263 01:55:23.680 --> 01:55:29.279 early Church fathers. What would what would you say in response to someone who 1264 01:55:29.399 --> 01:55:33.319 believes that, like, why would someone choose Eastern Orthodoxy or Orthodoxy rather than 1265 01:55:35.039 --> 01:55:42.680 I would say that the post second millennium papal superstructure that we see in documents 1266 01:55:42.800 --> 01:55:47.640 like Dictatus Pope in ten seventy four or absolutely nothing like the way the church 1267 01:55:47.720 --> 01:55:53.439 functioned in the first thousand years, and so it is categorically false that the 1268 01:55:53.560 --> 01:55:58.119 papacy exemplifies the Christianity the first thousand years. I would say that there are 1269 01:55:58.239 --> 01:56:03.239 numerous contradictions and change and dogma that also proved the papacy to be a fallacious, 1270 01:56:03.319 --> 01:56:11.399 ridiculous position. And second lastly, the last several years of Francis has 1271 01:56:11.720 --> 01:56:19.960 only borne this out one thousand fold. Interesting, thank you for that. 1272 01:56:20.520 --> 01:56:24.880 I'm not really a theologian. I don't have anything to argue for, so 1273 01:56:24.920 --> 01:56:28.720 you can send me back down to listeners. But Merry Christmas, you two, 1274 01:56:28.760 --> 01:56:30.319 and I'm not trying to be mean to you. Have you heard of 1275 01:56:30.399 --> 01:56:38.199 Dick Tatus Pape as an example, No, I have not, so just 1276 01:56:38.319 --> 01:56:41.399 real quick and I've got it pulled up on the screen. Here. This 1277 01:56:41.680 --> 01:56:45.680 is the Pope Gregory the seventh. He's the famous pope the time of the 1278 01:56:45.720 --> 01:56:50.000 Gregorian Reforms, and he listed out these what he called the dictates that were 1279 01:56:50.119 --> 01:56:57.760 entered into his register in ten seventy five, and it continued to be there 1280 01:56:57.800 --> 01:57:01.680 for many decades later. And actually the pope after Gregory, I forget which 1281 01:57:01.720 --> 01:57:05.159 one he was, but it's in the Mayandorf book that I've been talking about 1282 01:57:05.760 --> 01:57:09.720 in great detail. There's a whole there's a whole chapter in this book on 1283 01:57:11.760 --> 01:57:17.319 how even Gregory the seventh didn't actually accomplish a lot of these dictates being accepted. 1284 01:57:17.359 --> 01:57:23.399 It was his successor that did. But regardless, the dictates are things 1285 01:57:23.520 --> 01:57:27.239 like the Roman Church was founded by God alone. Well, you can go 1286 01:57:27.319 --> 01:57:30.760 reader in as where he talks about the Roman Church being the church of Peter 1287 01:57:30.880 --> 01:57:34.800 and Paul. The Roman Church alone is universal. Well, ever since the 1288 01:57:34.920 --> 01:57:42.760 Econmenical Councils, the patriarch of Constantinople was also called universal. The pope alone 1289 01:57:42.840 --> 01:57:45.720 chooses the bishops in the world. Well, that's not how the pope operated 1290 01:57:45.760 --> 01:57:50.159 in the first thousand years, because any metropolitan or three bishops could choose to 1291 01:57:53.000 --> 01:57:55.760 ordana bishop, so the pope didn't decide all the bishops in the world. 1292 01:57:56.239 --> 01:58:00.439 The pope alone can use the imperial insignia. You think in the first thousand 1293 01:58:00.479 --> 01:58:12.319 years of the church, the pope alone could use the imperial insignia, right, 1294 01:58:12.359 --> 01:58:15.479 Well, I mean that right. Well, I'm not trying to be 1295 01:58:15.560 --> 01:58:17.600 mean to you, but I would take a look at the dictatus pope because 1296 01:58:18.439 --> 01:58:24.079 it's a great example of what you're signing on to. And although the papacy, 1297 01:58:24.359 --> 01:58:27.760 uh you know, post Vatican two or whatever, has definitely shied away 1298 01:58:27.840 --> 01:58:32.119 from a lot of these outlandish quiza tadarak god Emperor, claims, it's still 1299 01:58:32.279 --> 01:58:36.640 there. I mean, it's still something that they mandated. In fact, 1300 01:58:38.159 --> 01:58:41.600 they said, if you don't accept the temporal supremacy of the pope all lot 1301 01:58:41.640 --> 01:58:45.239 when I'm sunkedum, you are damned. And now you don't even have to 1302 01:58:45.239 --> 01:58:49.800 believe that. So this is a religion where the innovation stemmed from the papacy 1303 01:58:49.840 --> 01:59:11.920 itself. Austin, Austin, Kay, I'm mute. Are you there? 1304 01:59:17.920 --> 01:59:30.239 Moving on, Brandon, let's go Brandon. Thank you guys for those super 1305 01:59:30.319 --> 01:59:32.399 chats, much appreciated. We will get to the super gester in a second. 1306 01:59:35.039 --> 01:59:47.680 Brandon, I'm mute, Yes, sir, did I hear my name? 1307 01:59:49.039 --> 01:59:57.840 Yep? I was over here practicing on this broken guitar. That's all 1308 01:59:57.920 --> 02:00:03.920 you do? Good? What's up? Uh? Yeah? Uh so I 1309 02:00:04.119 --> 02:00:10.399 was just wondering, do you do you have like a a special Christmas dinner? 1310 02:00:10.520 --> 02:00:15.199 You guys make over there? Yes, we make long duck dong. 1311 02:00:16.000 --> 02:00:29.640 Let's see. Moving on, modern Native what's up, dude? You gotta 1312 02:00:29.640 --> 02:00:32.479 I mute. When are you going to debate the Jews? Uh? I've 1313 02:00:32.520 --> 02:00:36.920 had one Jewish guy offered a debate in four years and he want to debate 1314 02:00:38.520 --> 02:00:47.319 freemasonry. So brand no, not Brandon, dude, I gotta. I'm 1315 02:00:47.359 --> 02:00:56.880 mute, man, guys, mute, it's up. Hey h. So 1316 02:00:57.039 --> 02:01:00.520 you were talking earlier about epistemological principle, like, how do we even have 1317 02:01:00.640 --> 02:01:04.359 a meaningful conversation? I think that's key, right, Like, if we're 1318 02:01:04.359 --> 02:01:08.039 going to have a conversation, you have to create to terms. Sure, 1319 02:01:08.920 --> 02:01:13.079 if you want to talk about formal argument, I think a good place to 1320 02:01:13.119 --> 02:01:16.680 start off with is scratching off the list of things that are not true and 1321 02:01:16.800 --> 02:01:21.560 then narrowing it down to things that are specifically, using the law of non 1322 02:01:21.640 --> 02:01:28.119 contradiction and modus tolance, I think you can kind of tear apart most of 1323 02:01:28.279 --> 02:01:33.680 postmodern thinking and throat to the wayside before you can have a more objectivist approach. 1324 02:01:34.479 --> 02:01:40.239 Specifically, you know, the whole idea that everything's a construct except for 1325 02:01:40.359 --> 02:01:45.399 apparently the construct. That everything's a construct, that's obviously a truth claim in 1326 02:01:45.520 --> 02:01:49.800 self negating, right, It's a basic pre sup critique right, or everything's 1327 02:01:49.800 --> 02:01:53.720 a matter of perspective, except for the perspective that everything is a matter of 1328 02:01:53.760 --> 02:01:59.199 perspective. It's absolutely true. There are no absolutes. We know that you 1329 02:01:59.279 --> 02:02:04.079 can't know anything like all these things muggle in truth claims while pretending not to, 1330 02:02:05.199 --> 02:02:09.640 or maybe the most morally bankrupt grupped of all of them, that there 1331 02:02:09.680 --> 02:02:14.479 are no greater metinariors or truth claims. There's only power, which is a 1332 02:02:14.520 --> 02:02:18.000 low key admission of moral bankruptcy, because if you believe the only thing that 1333 02:02:18.199 --> 02:02:20.600 is true is power, you're gonna lie, steal, and cheat to get 1334 02:02:20.720 --> 02:02:24.640 what you want in the name of the quote unquote greater good. So that's 1335 02:02:24.800 --> 02:02:30.039 obviously you know, someone like that can't be trusted and shouldn't be debated. 1336 02:02:31.039 --> 02:02:35.560 So I think just by narrowing it down to that, I think there is 1337 02:02:35.640 --> 02:02:43.079 actually a logical principle for talking about an objectivist position. Yeah, that's the 1338 02:02:43.199 --> 02:02:47.159 direction I was going in if we had continued in a rational discourse. Yeah, 1339 02:02:48.439 --> 02:02:53.039 I'm curious what you think about this specific argument. You know, in 1340 02:02:53.159 --> 02:02:56.640 all of language, a lot of terms are subjective. To be fair to 1341 02:02:56.720 --> 02:03:00.359 the postmodernists, to play the devil's advocate, but they're not all completely subjective, 1342 02:03:00.680 --> 02:03:06.399 Like the word absolute is pretty binary. You know, something can't be 1343 02:03:08.319 --> 02:03:13.680 sort of absolute or kind of absolutely either is or it isn't. So the 1344 02:03:13.760 --> 02:03:15.319 degree of the claim to stay within the claim itself, which is, you 1345 02:03:15.399 --> 02:03:20.920 know, absolute. So we know that it violates the law of non contradiction 1346 02:03:21.079 --> 02:03:24.640 to say that it's absolutely true. They are not such things absolute. So 1347 02:03:24.800 --> 02:03:30.000 therefore there's only one, by a virtue of modus Tolan's one argument that remains, 1348 02:03:30.039 --> 02:03:32.960 which is absolutely true. But a lot of people push on back, 1349 02:03:33.079 --> 02:03:38.520 push back on this and say, like, well, who cares, because 1350 02:03:39.279 --> 02:03:42.600 in order to say what the absolute truth is, you'd have to be standing 1351 02:03:42.640 --> 02:03:46.000 from an absolute dvantage point on knowledge and right. So you know, I'm 1352 02:03:46.000 --> 02:03:48.920 not trying to be rude, but this is the pre subsitional transit argmentation, 1353 02:03:49.119 --> 02:03:55.800 internal critigue that we do all the time. Sure, So my question is 1354 02:03:56.159 --> 02:03:59.000 if you have to be standing from an absolute vantage point to say what the 1355 02:03:59.079 --> 02:04:04.880 truth is? And since no mere mortal has the luxury of saying that what 1356 02:04:05.039 --> 02:04:09.920 it is, because no one has absolute knowledge or data except for maybe God. 1357 02:04:10.439 --> 02:04:13.359 Yeah, God God serves that function. God serves that function in the 1358 02:04:13.399 --> 02:04:17.880 world view. Sorry, God, serves that function in the worldview and in 1359 02:04:17.960 --> 02:04:25.439 the argument. Sure, but arguing it from like a position of non faith 1360 02:04:25.640 --> 02:04:30.600 to someone who is you're debating, isn't the point to win over the debater? 1361 02:04:30.800 --> 02:04:35.239 Not necessarily to win the argument now the point is Sorry, Well, 1362 02:04:35.279 --> 02:04:38.520 I mean, I've been debating for twenty years, and in my experience, 1363 02:04:38.600 --> 02:04:42.199 the point of debates is for the audience. It's not too rarely will you 1364 02:04:42.319 --> 02:04:47.920 convince the opponent? M Well, how about this? If you can say 1365 02:04:48.000 --> 02:04:51.640 that absolute truth exists, but it's forever beyond our reach because no one has 1366 02:04:51.680 --> 02:04:55.880 the absolute vantage point, well, that would be antext then infer that, 1367 02:04:56.199 --> 02:05:02.520 like there must truth that is transcendental, that is outside of our vantage point, 1368 02:05:02.640 --> 02:05:06.199 outside of our perception, and independent of our perception and even existence. 1369 02:05:06.760 --> 02:05:10.520 Well, I mean, I just think the statement itself would be meaningless and 1370 02:05:10.600 --> 02:05:15.720 unjustified because how are you you can't how are you gonna claim that there's truth 1371 02:05:15.840 --> 02:05:19.560 that's outside of our you know, reach? Just phrase itself doesn't make any 1372 02:05:19.600 --> 02:05:28.560 sense. You don't then you cannetologically ontologically, just like you can't prove beauty 1373 02:05:28.760 --> 02:05:32.159 or human rights or anything. I think I think you can prove those things. 1374 02:05:32.199 --> 02:05:36.279 So what do you mean, how would you prove them through the transcend 1375 02:05:36.279 --> 02:05:42.079 no argument? What do you mean? Yeah, so I guess you mean 1376 02:05:42.439 --> 02:05:46.640 other than other than an appeal to like some sort of absolute vantage point akaa 1377 02:05:46.760 --> 02:05:49.840 God. Then you have to narrow it down to like, you know, 1378 02:05:50.000 --> 02:05:54.279 I don't need to narrow it down because the argument is the trans and argument 1379 02:05:54.319 --> 02:06:00.239 for God's existence, so it includes those things you're you're talking of out specifically 1380 02:06:01.039 --> 02:06:06.640 a religious vantage point are you talking about revelational theism? Is the argument I 1381 02:06:06.680 --> 02:06:13.479 would make, correct, Okay, if you start off with, like, 1382 02:06:14.039 --> 02:06:15.159 if you do a lot of public debates, I can see why you would 1383 02:06:15.199 --> 02:06:20.560 not be interested in winning over the debater. And to be fair, a 1384 02:06:20.640 --> 02:06:25.159 lot of times people come in deeply digged into their positions, so I get 1385 02:06:26.000 --> 02:06:30.880 you know why that would not be primarily your goal. But I used to 1386 02:06:30.920 --> 02:06:36.640 be an anti theist, an atheist, and I was won over by a 1387 02:06:36.760 --> 02:06:41.159 Christian minister. Yeah, sometimes that can happen, you know. Yeah, 1388 02:06:41.319 --> 02:06:44.520 And there are those of us out there, so I think, you know, 1389 02:06:44.680 --> 02:06:47.159 it's it's worth trying to make the effort, even if it seems silly. 1390 02:06:47.319 --> 02:06:51.239 Because I used to be one of the most opposed people you could possibly 1391 02:06:51.319 --> 02:06:57.399 meet, you know, but I, over the course of seven years, 1392 02:06:57.520 --> 02:07:01.279 changed my mind. So yeah, I think your right to say too there 1393 02:07:01.439 --> 02:07:05.159 that it's not Typically it's not one debate that's going to change people's minds. 1394 02:07:05.279 --> 02:07:10.720 Usually it's a series of events over a span of time, Like you said, 1395 02:07:10.800 --> 02:07:12.960 many years. I mean, it's not going to be one thing. 1396 02:07:13.119 --> 02:07:15.720 But if you're hopping into the middle of this, if you're not familiar with 1397 02:07:15.760 --> 02:07:16.479 what we do, I mean, we've been doing this for years. We've 1398 02:07:16.520 --> 02:07:19.399 opened it up. I mean, we what I usually do, and I've 1399 02:07:19.399 --> 02:07:25.840 said this for many years on here is that when people come on, they're 1400 02:07:25.920 --> 02:07:29.079 going to it's kind of like debate school here. They're going to be held 1401 02:07:29.159 --> 02:07:32.680 to certain standards and the purpose here, and we're going to have fun along 1402 02:07:32.720 --> 02:07:35.960 the way and joke around. But the purpose here is to call people back 1403 02:07:36.039 --> 02:07:41.119 to invalid moves. Right, So when people think I'm interrupting and being mean, 1404 02:07:41.640 --> 02:07:45.079 I'm calling them back to an invalid move. Just like if we were 1405 02:07:45.119 --> 02:07:49.239 playing chess and somebody took the queen and or the pawn and moved it all 1406 02:07:49.279 --> 02:07:53.239 the way over there to take down my king out of nowhere at the first 1407 02:07:53.319 --> 02:07:55.520 move that wouldn't worry to be invalid move I said, no, no, 1408 02:07:55.640 --> 02:07:59.720 go back, start over. So that's what this is. This is like 1409 02:08:00.039 --> 02:08:05.479 debate school in a way. So yeah, so, and it's it's informal. 1410 02:08:05.640 --> 02:08:09.439 This is not a formal debate, but a lot of people are always 1411 02:08:09.479 --> 02:08:11.239 asking me. They're like, help me to debate better, help me to 1412 02:08:11.359 --> 02:08:15.800 I want to learn to do better in rhetoric and in this kind of stuff. 1413 02:08:15.840 --> 02:08:18.319 So that's partly what we're doing here as well. It's kind of helping 1414 02:08:18.399 --> 02:08:22.680 people understand and hear bad argumentation and hear it called out. So there's a 1415 02:08:22.720 --> 02:08:26.000 lot of different purposes as to what we're doing here today. And it's not 1416 02:08:26.159 --> 02:08:33.560 primarily to necessarily convince the immediate opponent, because I get a lot of trolls, 1417 02:08:33.640 --> 02:08:35.159 and there's a lot of bad faith people that hop on here and they're 1418 02:08:35.199 --> 02:08:39.520 not interested in being convinced or learning the truth. They just want to be 1419 02:08:39.720 --> 02:08:43.159 silly and they will get silliness back. So again, it just depends on 1420 02:08:43.279 --> 02:08:48.199 the context of who hops on here, gotcha. I do think that one 1421 02:08:48.239 --> 02:08:52.760 thing that's like sorely missing is this whole idea of quantity and quality of evidence 1422 02:08:52.880 --> 02:08:58.279 generally speaking, in our public discourse, Like if there's a lot of quality 1423 02:08:58.359 --> 02:09:03.159 evidence, probably true. Not a lot of quality evidence evidence probably not true. 1424 02:09:03.560 --> 02:09:07.560 And if it's a mixed bag of like mixed quality or mixed quantity, 1425 02:09:07.159 --> 02:09:09.800 you know you have to parse it out. But it seems like there's a 1426 02:09:09.840 --> 02:09:13.640 lot of stuff that just gets thrown out there and there's very little evidence for 1427 02:09:13.720 --> 02:09:18.079 it whatsoever, and it just goes by. I'm completely unquestioned that. I 1428 02:09:18.119 --> 02:09:22.800 mean, if you're talking about general discourse in modern society, yeah, most 1429 02:09:22.840 --> 02:09:31.920 people are not able to operate in a coherent logical discourse way. But I 1430 02:09:31.960 --> 02:09:35.119 don't know what you're talking about throwing out stuff without significant I don't are you 1431 02:09:35.159 --> 02:09:39.239 talking about the context of religion, what are you talking about just in the 1432 02:09:39.279 --> 02:09:43.439 context of really anything, Like if you go to court, you know you 1433 02:09:43.560 --> 02:09:46.159 can have some solid evidence, but if there's just a little bit of it, 1434 02:09:46.520 --> 02:09:48.920 it's only going to have so much sway. I guess it depends on 1435 02:09:48.960 --> 02:09:52.119 the evidence. But if you have a lot of evidence and it's solid, 1436 02:09:52.560 --> 02:09:56.279 you know you've got a strong case. And I just sometimes I hear people 1437 02:09:56.359 --> 02:10:01.359 say just throw out meager evidence, and it's really incoherent and discombobulated I'm just 1438 02:10:01.479 --> 02:10:03.640 like, why would you think that would fly? You know, like, 1439 02:10:03.840 --> 02:10:09.239 yeah, you know, like, I don't understand why we sort of discount 1440 02:10:09.279 --> 02:10:13.920 one for the other. It seems like both quality and quantity should always be 1441 02:10:13.000 --> 02:10:18.560 considered in conjunction, but that doesn't seem to be the case a lot of 1442 02:10:18.640 --> 02:10:20.560 times. Right. Well, I'm not an evidentialist, so I don't think 1443 02:10:20.600 --> 02:10:26.359 that evidences ultimately do the work that most evidentialists think that they can do. 1444 02:10:26.880 --> 02:10:31.039 But we do have to use evidences for sure. But I agree with your 1445 02:10:31.039 --> 02:10:35.720 overall points. Yeah, because it was the fine tuning argument that really caught 1446 02:10:35.800 --> 02:10:39.800 my eye back when I was an atheist and also trying to come up with 1447 02:10:39.920 --> 02:10:48.600 like a logical, a sort of a secular a universal setler secular ethic. 1448 02:10:48.640 --> 02:10:54.960 I tried to undertake that, and I very quickly realized how impossible that was, 1449 02:10:54.079 --> 02:10:58.920 because you can't be divorced from your time in place, your socioeconomic sass, 1450 02:11:00.039 --> 02:11:01.680 your parents, your DNA, the schools you went up to, the 1451 02:11:01.760 --> 02:11:05.000 language, and then even the choices you make are made through a sort of 1452 02:11:05.079 --> 02:11:09.640 a cultural grid, which is a set of incentives and punishments, and people 1453 02:11:09.680 --> 02:11:15.000 always tend to gravitate towards the incentives and shy away from the punishments. And 1454 02:11:15.920 --> 02:11:18.600 so we're really just sort of a snapshot of our time and place. And 1455 02:11:18.399 --> 02:11:24.000 you know, how could you how could you privilege your Western individualism over someone's 1456 02:11:24.000 --> 02:11:28.920 Eastern collectivism? I read exactly. There has to be like an absolute vantage 1457 02:11:30.000 --> 02:11:33.600 point to like Martin Luther King Junior said in Letters from Birmingham Prison or the 1458 02:11:33.680 --> 02:11:39.039 Nuremberg Trials or William Uberforest. You know, there has to be God's law 1459 02:11:39.159 --> 02:11:43.159 to call out man's law when man's law becomes unjust. So and I was 1460 02:11:43.239 --> 02:11:46.880 like, well, it's just it's impossible, or it's nihilism. I mean, 1461 02:11:46.920 --> 02:11:52.279 it's either God or it's nihilism, because everything else is just sort of 1462 02:11:52.560 --> 02:11:58.600 imperialistic ethnocentrism. Mhm. So yeah, well I agree with those points, 1463 02:12:00.039 --> 02:12:05.920 Wentz. Thanks man, Modern Native got some good philosophical insights there. Let's 1464 02:12:05.960 --> 02:12:11.319 see who's next, Jose or no way, let's I'm trying to I'm trying 1465 02:12:11.359 --> 02:12:15.039 to see who from their profile. Viedu looks meaner. Tyler looks pretty mean, 1466 02:12:15.079 --> 02:12:18.840 looks like he's ready to beat some butts, better whip some butts. 1467 02:12:18.960 --> 02:12:26.920 What's up, Tyler? I'm here, Jay. I I found out about 1468 02:12:26.920 --> 02:12:33.199 you to you know, Alex Jones, and I I became a Christian, 1469 02:12:33.359 --> 02:12:41.760 uh about three years ago. I was technically non believer. My the mother 1470 02:12:41.840 --> 02:12:48.760 of my children, she ended up getting into getting into witchcraft and uh prostitution 1471 02:12:48.960 --> 02:12:54.880 ring, like a freemason prostitution ring, and I was came face to face 1472 02:12:54.960 --> 02:12:58.239 with with real evil. And from that day forward, I've realized that if 1473 02:12:58.239 --> 02:13:03.600 there's evil, it's that I know that God's reel. But that's a little 1474 02:13:03.600 --> 02:13:07.000 bit of my background. But I just asked some questions for you. I 1475 02:13:07.600 --> 02:13:13.479 ended up getting baptized in a Seventh day Adventist church and I have a very 1476 02:13:13.520 --> 02:13:18.880 open mind. I don't you know. I'm open to any and that's why 1477 02:13:18.920 --> 02:13:22.199 I wanted to talk to you. So just a few questions for you. 1478 02:13:22.359 --> 02:13:28.000 This is all what i've uh you know, determined in my in my thinking, 1479 02:13:28.079 --> 02:13:31.199 in my opinion. But would you say, is is Satan bringing about 1480 02:13:31.279 --> 02:13:37.920 a self fulfilling prophecy through revelation? Because it seems like for everything they'd be 1481 02:13:37.000 --> 02:13:41.920 going down that exact way that God he was going to do that no matter 1482 02:13:43.000 --> 02:13:48.000 what God had written in the Bible. Is that correct? I think you 1483 02:13:48.079 --> 02:13:54.159 know Paul says that the mysteries of the Church and the Incarnation were hidden from 1484 02:13:54.239 --> 02:14:00.560 the powers and principalities of this world. So I think that that we don't 1485 02:14:00.640 --> 02:14:07.199 exactly know what Satan can and can't understand, or how deep he understands or 1486 02:14:07.239 --> 02:14:13.600 sees things. I think that regardless when he made his choice in the Aon 1487 02:14:13.760 --> 02:14:18.600 at the beginning, when the angels fell, he confirmed himself in this perpetual 1488 02:14:18.159 --> 02:14:24.399 movement towards evil. So what exact degree of knowledge he has of the overall 1489 02:14:24.479 --> 02:14:30.119 plan of God? Scripture seems to speak as if there's things hidden from him. 1490 02:14:30.560 --> 02:14:35.079 He's not omniscient, So I don't know if I would say he's intentionally 1491 02:14:35.840 --> 02:14:41.199 fulfilling a self fulfilling prophecy or he's just sort of like a madman berserker guy 1492 02:14:41.560 --> 02:14:45.600 hell bent on, you know, just destruction and chaos, because that's what 1493 02:14:45.720 --> 02:14:48.640 he chose to do, right, And that's kind of what I thought initially, 1494 02:14:48.760 --> 02:14:54.960 But the more I think about it, it's Is it possible that he's 1495 02:14:54.279 --> 02:14:58.720 trying to call God's bluff in some way like Jesus's bluff. I guess you'd 1496 02:14:58.760 --> 02:15:03.880 say that he's going to convince the people that there will not be a second 1497 02:15:03.960 --> 02:15:07.800 coming, and he's going to bring about all the pups. He's a revelation 1498 02:15:07.279 --> 02:15:11.479 and when they when they they come about, and and Jesus doesn't appear, 1499 02:15:11.560 --> 02:15:15.640 then they would make everyone, you know, a non believer, even though 1500 02:15:15.680 --> 02:15:18.600 he would know that, you know, eventually something's going to happen, but 1501 02:15:18.680 --> 02:15:24.760 our judgment would come down. But you know, he's trying to you know, 1502 02:15:24.880 --> 02:15:28.720 get as maybe hell as he can. So that's just something I thought 1503 02:15:28.760 --> 02:15:33.319 i'd Chad. I'm not sure, I mean, as to what degree like 1504 02:15:33.600 --> 02:15:37.760 his plans are to try to trick people about the incarnation, I don't know. 1505 02:15:37.880 --> 02:15:39.079 I mean, it's it's hard to say exactly what I mean. We 1506 02:15:39.199 --> 02:15:43.359 have basic ideas in the Orthodox Church about the things that are going to happen 1507 02:15:43.880 --> 02:15:46.439 as we move towards the end, whenever that is. But I don't know 1508 02:15:46.479 --> 02:15:50.840 if we know exactly all the details of the Satanic plan. We do know 1509 02:15:50.000 --> 02:15:54.479 things like there will be a great apostasy of the church, there will be, 1510 02:15:54.640 --> 02:16:00.880 you know, an attempt to rebuild Solomon's Temple, an attempt to have 1511 02:16:01.000 --> 02:16:03.439 a one world religion, all this kind of stuff, one world government, 1512 02:16:03.840 --> 02:16:07.560 the worship of a single political leader, as God anti Christ. I mean, 1513 02:16:07.600 --> 02:16:11.520 we know those kinds of things are coming, but as to the specifics 1514 02:16:11.640 --> 02:16:16.439 of like it'll be Ai and Satan will has this plan to like make everybody 1515 02:16:16.920 --> 02:16:20.560 believe that it's the second Coming. I mean maybe I just don't know, 1516 02:16:20.760 --> 02:16:28.439 so it's it's very speculative. Father Deacon, are you there? Did you 1517 02:16:28.520 --> 02:16:31.399 want to chime in at all? Do you have a couple of things to 1518 02:16:31.440 --> 02:16:33.159 say or do you want me to do you want to just keep going? 1519 02:16:35.399 --> 02:16:43.040 No, I'm just hearing. I enjoyed that last tentleman with the epistemological questions, 1520 02:16:43.680 --> 02:16:50.040 and you know, I'm throwing out for people to give me their best 1521 02:16:50.079 --> 02:16:54.879 objections attag. Yeah so, Father Deacon, if you go over to his 1522 02:16:54.000 --> 02:17:03.280 Twitter page, is asking for people who have serious objections to the transcendental argument. 1523 02:17:03.360 --> 02:17:05.239 I think he's wanting to kind of collect those and then respond to them 1524 02:17:05.319 --> 02:17:11.280 and something he's doing. Yeah so, I mean, I don't mind arguing 1525 02:17:11.360 --> 02:17:16.440 here, but the thing on my Twitter acts, I'm not challenging people. 1526 02:17:16.479 --> 02:17:20.559 I've just I really just want to know what people think and how they've kind 1527 02:17:20.559 --> 02:17:26.200 of experienced tags hang ups. Some of the best objections and you don't even 1528 02:17:26.280 --> 02:17:31.200 have to agree with the objection. It's just objections that you think, Hey, 1529 02:17:31.280 --> 02:17:37.079 I think this is worthy of responding to because I'm collecting that and writing 1530 02:17:37.159 --> 02:17:43.159 a paper, So any feedback that anybody has isle and even on here too, 1531 02:17:43.360 --> 02:17:46.799 I'd love just to hear what people think. Thank you for that. 1532 02:17:48.000 --> 02:17:54.520 I am going to briefly do this while I go to the little girl's room. 1533 02:17:58.159 --> 02:18:03.159 Chad Mode is your ultimate natural pre workout designed to take your performance to 1534 02:18:03.319 --> 02:18:07.680 this level. Chad Mode is for natty beast alphas only. Whether you're hitting 1535 02:18:07.760 --> 02:18:13.799 the gym, invading a favella, conquering a small village, gambling, burning 1536 02:18:13.879 --> 02:18:18.440 the midnight oil, mogging on your coworkers, or getting banned from Facebook, 1537 02:18:18.840 --> 02:18:22.959 chad Mode gives you the competitive edge you need. 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Chad Mode will give you 1553 02:19:39.520 --> 02:19:43.520 a dominant and aggressive edge, like a lion hunting a gazelle, where the 1554 02:19:43.600 --> 02:19:48.959 gazelle is a TikTok Jim zoomer macro guzzling sucralose on the daily, edging to 1555 02:19:48.079 --> 02:19:54.040 TNF videos. Whether you're seeking a high potency, junk free pre workout or 1556 02:19:54.120 --> 02:19:58.200 a better way to kickstart your day, Chad Mode has you covered. It's 1557 02:19:58.319 --> 02:20:01.680 not just for men. Dad Mode is a solution for anyone ready to conquer 1558 02:20:01.760 --> 02:20:07.000 their fitness and life goals, dominate their coworkers, and aggressively show off something 1559 02:20:07.200 --> 02:20:11.920 that we're all proud of. I've got a browser here. This is Jay 1560 02:20:11.079 --> 02:20:18.680 Dyers, much vaunted, much sought after philosophy one oh one. Now he 1561 02:20:18.840 --> 02:20:22.440 just got this page up. We are just testing you give him the first 1562 02:20:22.479 --> 02:20:26.159 people know. I want to say, for my part, it's not philosophy 1563 02:20:26.280 --> 02:20:28.719 want oh one. I think this is a mis mistitling. I really think 1564 02:20:28.879 --> 02:20:33.600 is as like philosophy unleashed, because a philosophy want on one course, they 1565 02:20:33.680 --> 02:20:37.159 give you kind of some useless information that you can't make sense of. Jay 1566 02:20:37.239 --> 02:20:43.079 actually lays out over twelve weeks, dozens and dozens of hours put into just 1567 02:20:43.200 --> 02:20:46.799 the presentation of this, let alone the hundreds and thousands of hours of research 1568 02:20:46.879 --> 02:20:50.799 that it takes to have a coherent evolution and history of the origins of philosophy, 1569 02:20:50.840 --> 02:20:54.079 the uses of philosophy, the different ways to look at it over time, 1570 02:20:54.639 --> 02:20:58.760 and how that has been brought about to what we have today, which 1571 02:20:58.879 --> 02:21:05.200 is almost an absence of philosophy on the objective, logic and reason side in 1572 02:21:05.280 --> 02:21:09.559 an overabundance of woke philosophy that is irrational is made up day by day as 1573 02:21:09.600 --> 02:21:13.760 people are like, I think we should bring racism back, and then here's 1574 02:21:13.799 --> 02:21:16.600 a justification, and then it gets wokeified and spread out, and then all 1575 02:21:16.600 --> 02:21:20.440 of a sudden you have a bunch of communist socialist ideas where you become the 1576 02:21:20.479 --> 02:21:24.559 property in action. You need to be able to stand on your own ground. 1577 02:21:24.840 --> 02:21:28.600 It helps to have a foundation in philosophy because it's a method define truth 1578 02:21:28.799 --> 02:21:33.799 when you get down to it. Philosophy is there because you, and it 1579 02:21:33.079 --> 02:21:39.079 is as far as the notes and the type of coffee, it's a balance 1580 02:21:39.200 --> 02:21:45.600 is sweet. So that means you don't have to put your industrial waste cream 1581 02:21:46.680 --> 02:21:50.360 or your satanic sugar in it to enjoy. So if you're on a keto 1582 02:21:50.399 --> 02:21:56.799 carnivores, hey, great, get it. Consider supporting patriistic faith and Jay 1583 02:21:56.879 --> 02:22:03.280 Dyer work coffee by purchasing that. And also I want to remind you guys, 1584 02:22:03.319 --> 02:22:05.120 too. Thank you for other Deacon, I've got the link. As 1585 02:22:05.159 --> 02:22:07.120 I said to the lower coffee there, that's his affiliate. You can also 1586 02:22:07.200 --> 02:22:11.639 support me via heading over to talk dot com. You just saw the ad. 1587 02:22:11.399 --> 02:22:15.399 Use the promo co Ja fifty. You get fifty percent off not just 1588 02:22:15.559 --> 02:22:18.879 the chad Mode pre workout, but all the excellent products over there, including 1589 02:22:18.959 --> 02:22:22.000 the Talk Eataly, including the Action two point zero, including the Daily All 1590 02:22:22.040 --> 02:22:28.200 of those are excellent products over at Chalk to enhance your performance at the gym 1591 02:22:28.920 --> 02:22:33.600 and any other masculine activity. That's also for the ladies. It's not just 1592 02:22:33.680 --> 02:22:35.159 for duds. So heading over to talk dot com, remember you can also, 1593 02:22:35.200 --> 02:22:37.920 as you've seen in the background here get this book right here. I 1594 02:22:39.040 --> 02:22:43.719 got multiple stacks of copies of meta narratives in. You can get those over 1595 02:22:43.760 --> 02:22:46.120 at the website. In the shop you can also get the Red Book, 1596 02:22:46.600 --> 02:22:48.319 Essays on the Alga in Philosophy, as well as all the other old classic 1597 02:22:48.360 --> 02:22:52.000 books Esoty Collie one on two in the shop at Jason Alys's Choices. For 1598 02:22:52.079 --> 02:22:56.479 five dollars, can you make a video tour of the library. We already 1599 02:22:56.479 --> 02:23:01.200 did that, donut this five dollars do it? Ji impression where he says, 1600 02:23:01.879 --> 02:23:07.120 imagine that the computer simulates your brand being are aped by a monkey, 1601 02:23:07.319 --> 02:23:13.639 and then there you go, mind hacked since ten dollars, says Merry Christmas, 1602 02:23:13.719 --> 02:23:18.000 Thank you mind hack much appreciated. Haven't seen you around in the super 1603 02:23:18.079 --> 02:23:22.319 chat domain for a while. Glad to see you back ten dollars, ten 1604 02:23:22.479 --> 02:23:28.799 cents, eleven dollars. What if alien Yoda was twerking Ooh, I don't 1605 02:23:28.840 --> 02:23:31.719 know. Would that be would that make you a perv? I mean? 1606 02:23:31.280 --> 02:23:37.159 Or would it be cute? You tell me? Colloquolav bang five dollars. 1607 02:23:39.040 --> 02:23:43.639 Did the herrowing of Hades happen outside of time? I don't think we know 1608 02:23:43.879 --> 02:23:46.040 the way that the spiritual realm, or the realm of the dead, and 1609 02:23:46.120 --> 02:23:50.479 the no edic realm, the way it seems to interact with time but not 1610 02:23:50.639 --> 02:23:56.319 be bound by time. So in some way things happen instantaneously, or the 1611 02:23:56.319 --> 02:24:01.120 correlation between the movements are different between time of space, so we don't know. 1612 02:24:01.760 --> 02:24:05.520 But it seems to have happened in some way relating to time, because 1613 02:24:05.959 --> 02:24:11.760 it happened between the time of Christ dying, descending, and resurrecting, So 1614 02:24:11.920 --> 02:24:15.239 in some way there was a temporal connection there. Can you point me to 1615 02:24:15.319 --> 02:24:20.920 fathers on the subject. Hilari and Alfaev has a whole book on the heroing 1616 02:24:20.959 --> 02:24:24.760 of Hades, so that would probably be the most expansive book on the subject. 1617 02:24:26.280 --> 02:24:28.319 Ganner sixteen, five dollars and two cents, Jay Mary Christmas, two 1618 02:24:28.399 --> 02:24:35.680 questions. Do a review of Altered Carbon? Maybe I just haven't really committed 1619 02:24:35.680 --> 02:24:41.399 to a lot of these more recent kind of seems like everything post twenty sixteen 1620 02:24:41.639 --> 02:24:48.200 and sci fi is just all woke, and so it's just unwatchable. Do 1621 02:24:48.239 --> 02:24:54.959 our analysis because it's a super revealing dystopia. Unblocked me on Twitter? I 1622 02:24:56.040 --> 02:24:58.920 don't know. I usually find that the people that I've blocked were blocked for 1623 02:24:58.000 --> 02:25:05.559 good reason, no idea why I blocked you. If you unblock me, 1624 02:25:05.639 --> 02:25:09.959 I will finally take care of the way that you cough. So does that 1625 02:25:09.079 --> 02:25:13.920 mean you have the antidote to the T virus that you gave me? Alexander 1626 02:25:13.959 --> 02:25:18.040 Soldier needs in ten dollars, I want to say thank you, thank you, 1627 02:25:18.120 --> 02:25:24.159 Alexander. James Feji for three dollars, can you elaborate what arianism is? 1628 02:25:24.559 --> 02:25:28.399 Arianism is the doctrine that Christ is the first that Jesus, the son 1629 02:25:28.479 --> 02:25:33.559 of God, is the first thing that the Father created before the foundation of 1630 02:25:33.600 --> 02:25:35.479 the world, and then he moved on to create everything else. So Jesus 1631 02:25:35.600 --> 02:25:41.920 becomes a kind of demi God, and then Jesus and then salvation consists in 1632 02:25:41.000 --> 02:25:46.600 a kind of a moral realignment where you become like Jesus in the sense of 1633 02:25:46.680 --> 02:25:52.639 being more and more of a moral person. So then explain to me why 1634 02:25:52.840 --> 02:25:58.600 penal substitution and toonement is Rian because the idea that the sun is damned in 1635 02:25:58.719 --> 02:26:03.319 our place would require either a Nestorian Jesus or an ary in Jesus, because 1636 02:26:05.399 --> 02:26:07.920 you can't damn the second person of the Trinity. He's God from all eternity. 1637 02:26:09.680 --> 02:26:13.040 You can't split the Trinity. So very simple, that's the simple presentation, 1638 02:26:13.120 --> 02:26:18.520 Mary, Christmas, Mery Christmas to you, glitchy three dollars. Some 1639 02:26:18.639 --> 02:26:22.760 people think that you owe them time because you do this show. Thank you 1640 02:26:22.840 --> 02:26:26.040 for your work. By the way, have you heard the uri vestment ofv 1641 02:26:26.079 --> 02:26:31.719 clip Just kidding exactly, glitchy five dollars. In other words, entitle people 1642 02:26:31.840 --> 02:26:35.520 think that you owe them because you're doing this. Merry Christmas, Mary Krimbas 1643 02:26:35.600 --> 02:26:41.079 to you and your Queen. Shout out to Tim and Eric krimbas there. 1644 02:26:41.879 --> 02:26:46.760 Thank you, Eric arenas twenty five dollars, Thank you so much. Arena. 1645 02:26:46.879 --> 02:26:50.040 Well we did, we did get a white mom yelling at us tonight, 1646 02:26:50.079 --> 02:26:54.680 didn't we? That was a sweet surprise. That was a sweet wine. 1647 02:26:54.760 --> 02:27:00.319 So sweet cherry wine, sweet red right like Steve Rules, says sweet 1648 02:27:00.360 --> 02:27:03.479 Cherry Writt. She sat us straight, yalled at us, told us that 1649 02:27:03.600 --> 02:27:09.239 Jesus was an anarchist and her justification was because she had been through trauma. 1650 02:27:09.479 --> 02:27:13.360 Well, I'm sorry for your trauma, but that doesn't have anything to do 1651 02:27:13.559 --> 02:27:22.760 with whether your views are correct or not. So got a few more minutes. 1652 02:27:22.760 --> 02:27:28.959 I'll try to make this last bit quicker, mister Victor. One of 1653 02:27:30.079 --> 02:27:43.079 one, I can't doctor one of one or something. Gotta one Mary. 1654 02:27:43.239 --> 02:27:50.879 Christmas and happy New Year. So merry Christmas, do you. I'm more 1655 02:27:50.920 --> 02:27:54.200 excited for the New Year part. But you know, there's a lot of 1656 02:27:54.239 --> 02:27:58.920 money going in and out right now, going in and out of what are 1657 02:27:58.920 --> 02:28:05.159 you talking about? The Well, Christmas, you know, is like the 1658 02:28:05.360 --> 02:28:13.559 last Q four holiday that you know a lot of people are spending money. 1659 02:28:13.040 --> 02:28:18.799 Okay, did you have anything related to the topic or what's up? The 1660 02:28:18.959 --> 02:28:28.079 topic is we're moving on Crusader. Hey you got you got Crusader in your 1661 02:28:28.159 --> 02:28:37.000 name and you got an Orthodox cross. How does that work? Ye? 1662 02:28:37.239 --> 02:28:45.879 Barely perfect. I just wanted to lead off and today Mary Christmas, I 1663 02:28:45.920 --> 02:28:50.399 started watching your channel for months ago. Orthodoxy, I'm an inquire right now. 1664 02:28:50.520 --> 02:28:54.479 That is want today. I appreciate it, and I called politics one 1665 02:28:54.520 --> 02:29:03.319 of the topics. Yeah, it also relates to Orthodoxy. But where do 1666 02:29:03.360 --> 02:29:07.239 you think the churches fit into the street or like, what's the dynamic there? 1667 02:29:07.479 --> 02:29:11.079 Uh? Is there like an ideal maybe state that you have in history 1668 02:29:11.280 --> 02:29:16.200 or contemporary history? Yeah, I mean we addressed that many times in live 1669 02:29:16.280 --> 02:29:20.479 streams, probably ten different livestreams five or six years ago. So I mean 1670 02:29:20.600 --> 02:29:26.479 monarchy is the ideal political system that's nowhere near anywhere on the table of what 1671 02:29:26.760 --> 02:29:33.200 we can really expect. So that really only makes sense when the majority of 1672 02:29:33.280 --> 02:29:37.760 the people in the society have the right Orthodox faith. Otherwise it's really it 1673 02:29:37.879 --> 02:29:41.799 doesn't it doesn't even matter. But I do have many old streams on what 1674 02:29:43.040 --> 02:29:50.239 the best form of governance is emu uriarte. This sounds wild debate of emu 1675 02:29:58.239 --> 02:30:01.799 Hello, yes, sir, I'm sorry, can you hear me? Well? 1676 02:30:01.959 --> 02:30:03.280 I can, Okay, thank you very much. I just want to 1677 02:30:03.280 --> 02:30:05.680 say I'm a big fan of you, J Dre and I actually, I 1678 02:30:05.719 --> 02:30:11.239 actually did want to focus on that thing you just got done saying the monarchy 1679 02:30:11.399 --> 02:30:18.639 versus lack democracy and those types of world systems. I guess I can see 1680 02:30:18.760 --> 02:30:24.639 how the monarchy system would function like better in a way when you have like 1681 02:30:24.719 --> 02:30:28.239 a complete, like a faithful society. But do you think that leads to 1682 02:30:28.399 --> 02:30:33.520 like the actual better flourishment of the people that participate within it, or do 1683 02:30:33.639 --> 02:30:37.000 you think that's just more sort of a like it's a setup to maintain the 1684 02:30:37.079 --> 02:30:43.920 moral framework of the society rather than the actual like prosperity of it. Maybe 1685 02:30:43.959 --> 02:30:48.280 I'm not saying that right. I mean it sounds like a utilitarian argument, 1686 02:30:48.440 --> 02:30:50.319 like, well, we're going to choose the system based on what gives us 1687 02:30:50.399 --> 02:30:58.200 the best, what monetary or social gains, Like I mean, we should 1688 02:30:58.239 --> 02:31:01.399 just have theoin bitcoin society because that's going to give us the most gains. 1689 02:31:01.600 --> 02:31:07.959 So what I don't understand your question, like you're saying, is monarchy true 1690 02:31:07.079 --> 02:31:11.719 because is it the best? Because it is not. It's not the best 1691 02:31:11.760 --> 02:31:13.920 because it's not going to give us the most gains. Is that what you're 1692 02:31:13.920 --> 02:31:18.840 saying? Well, I mean I would think it would be ideal, but 1693 02:31:18.079 --> 02:31:24.639 I just don't think it. I think historically monarchist societies have like naturally kind 1694 02:31:24.719 --> 02:31:31.200 of eroded to more of like a parliamentarian's, especially in the West. Where 1695 02:31:31.639 --> 02:31:33.559 Why do you think that erosion happened? Though? I mean, that's not 1696 02:31:33.760 --> 02:31:41.639 the that's not the most societies in history haven't been parliamentarian or republics or democracies. 1697 02:31:41.639 --> 02:31:46.520 They have been monarchies. I mean, I understand that, but you 1698 02:31:46.600 --> 02:31:50.000 don't think the most like powerful and effect I get, yeah, powerful and 1699 02:31:50.040 --> 02:31:54.840 effective doesn't necessarily equate to good, but you know what's helpful. That just 1700 02:31:54.920 --> 02:31:58.399 caught me off guard. I don't know why I even mentioned that was about 1701 02:31:58.440 --> 02:32:07.120 the reason even join I'm sorry Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Pause one second, Let 1702 02:32:07.159 --> 02:32:13.680 father did I was gonna say the Hans from a hop Uh so I was. 1703 02:32:15.239 --> 02:32:18.280 Can you not hear him? No? I can? Okay, can 1704 02:32:18.319 --> 02:32:22.360 you pause this one second? He's talking the Hans from a hop article from 1705 02:32:22.399 --> 02:32:31.680 Aristocracy the monarchy is really good and it shows the change in the corruption that 1706 02:32:31.879 --> 02:32:37.120 led to kind of parliamentarism that you mentioned. But one thing that's really important 1707 02:32:37.200 --> 02:32:41.440 you have to understand it. It's a fundamental because, like Jay said, 1708 02:32:41.000 --> 02:32:48.840 because of fundamental ideological and philosophical changes that occurred, specifically in modernity, the 1709 02:32:50.000 --> 02:32:54.600 way that man related and thought about the state, change the state, and 1710 02:32:54.719 --> 02:33:03.000 antiquity was there too the laws not to prevent them and give them these kind 1711 02:33:03.000 --> 02:33:07.680 of libertarian rights and prevent them from killing each other, but to actually encourage 1712 02:33:09.280 --> 02:33:13.959 and establish a framework in which the citizen could acquire virtue. So, as 1713 02:33:13.040 --> 02:33:18.440 Jay said, there isn't this kind of notion of like monetary success. The 1714 02:33:18.520 --> 02:33:26.479 most important thing in the mind of the an ancient was acquiring virtue and becoming 1715 02:33:26.520 --> 02:33:31.879 a better person. And so you'll see even in that article, the Hongs 1716 02:33:31.879 --> 02:33:37.040 from hop thinks, even though he's in you know, an anarchom an anarchist, 1717 02:33:37.600 --> 02:33:39.799 he thinks the most natural form of government is a monarchy. But these 1718 02:33:39.879 --> 02:33:46.280 ideologies came in and corrupted that and changed it into kind of parliamentary monarchy, 1719 02:33:46.399 --> 02:33:50.440 and then democracy in it further kind of devolves. So I just point you 1720 02:33:50.520 --> 02:33:52.879 there as a helpful article. All right, let's check out. Thank you 1721 02:33:52.920 --> 02:33:56.479 for that. Let's check out Zed Wagner. I'm trying to hurry through a 1722 02:33:56.520 --> 02:33:58.360 lot of these together. There's like twenty people in it, Zed Wagner, 1723 02:33:58.360 --> 02:34:09.799 what's up? Zed? Hello? Sure? Can you hear me? Hey? 1724 02:34:09.120 --> 02:34:13.040 Thank you for doing what you do. Jay. You let me the 1725 02:34:13.159 --> 02:34:18.399 Orthodoxy I have a question. I'm not here to debate. I'm totally on 1726 02:34:20.079 --> 02:34:24.319 you know, the orthodox position and the tag position. But I was a 1727 02:34:24.440 --> 02:34:33.319 question about specifically Catholicism and the Jesuit society. Has it always been corrupt or 1728 02:34:33.959 --> 02:34:37.639 was there a time in which it was trying to hold true to what it 1729 02:34:37.760 --> 02:34:45.319 thought the Catholic teaching and doctrines were as as flawed as they are, or 1730 02:34:45.440 --> 02:34:52.159 has it always been like this, uh, free Masonic organization LARPing as a 1731 02:34:52.280 --> 02:34:58.399 Christian organization. That's a good question that would probably require somebody who is more 1732 02:34:58.440 --> 02:35:01.559 of a specialist in his history of the Jesuits to really give you a solid 1733 02:35:01.600 --> 02:35:05.479 answer on that, because as time progresses, as we get up into the 1734 02:35:05.520 --> 02:35:09.319 twentieth century, with more and more books being written about the Jesuits, you 1735 02:35:09.360 --> 02:35:13.959 get a lot more lore, a lot of gibberish, a lot of conspiracy 1736 02:35:15.520 --> 02:35:18.719 nonsense that sort of becomes an accretion on the story and the history of the 1737 02:35:18.840 --> 02:35:24.639 Jesuits. So we all know that Ignacious Loyola was a part of some kind 1738 02:35:24.639 --> 02:35:31.360 of sort of esoteric group before he became a Jesuit. It is possible that 1739 02:35:31.639 --> 02:35:35.639 when he was amongst this iluminous type of group, he maintained some of those 1740 02:35:35.719 --> 02:35:39.879 ideas as he went into forming the spiritual exercises and whatnot. And there is 1741 02:35:41.440 --> 02:35:45.879 an overlap of certain groups and people. I mean, even the writers quickly 1742 02:35:45.920 --> 02:35:50.680 talks about in the Anglo American establishment that the Royal Society elite, the Cliveden 1743 02:35:50.760 --> 02:35:56.680 set and others utilized the spiritual exercises as a manual for how they would kind 1744 02:35:56.719 --> 02:36:01.239 of run things in a cell structure for their their power block. But that 1745 02:36:01.319 --> 02:36:05.440 doesn't mean that they were doing it because they believe Jesuit philosophy. They just 1746 02:36:05.479 --> 02:36:11.920 thought that the tactics and the techniques of having a confessor and the way that 1747 02:36:13.000 --> 02:36:20.799 the confessor might potentially manipulate you through the Jesuit practices allah Ignacious Spiritual Exercises could 1748 02:36:20.840 --> 02:36:24.399 be a technique that they could use. And I think a lot of the 1749 02:36:24.479 --> 02:36:30.639 low IQ conspiracy crowd thinks that that means that the New World Orders run by 1750 02:36:30.760 --> 02:36:35.719 Jesuits. No, No, they took the Jesuit spiritual practices that handlers use 1751 02:36:37.319 --> 02:36:39.719 or the spiritual confessors use, and that that gets transferred over into like the 1752 02:36:39.840 --> 02:36:46.239 intelligence world of like a handler and then his operative right. So so that's 1753 02:36:46.280 --> 02:36:50.680 part of it. But is it possible that the there is actually secretly and 1754 02:36:52.000 --> 02:36:56.719 esoteric thing that the Jesuits are into. That's definitely possible. But I don't 1755 02:36:56.799 --> 02:37:00.639 know enough about like the whole the actual history of the Jesuits to say for 1756 02:37:00.760 --> 02:37:05.239 sure. But I think it's very obvious now that they're completely co opted their 1757 02:37:05.399 --> 02:37:11.600 their corporate logo the Black Sun, you know. Uh, I've seen some 1758 02:37:11.719 --> 02:37:16.840 writings where that ties back to the Cobpa Stone and those kinds of things. 1759 02:37:18.600 --> 02:37:20.920 Once again, thank you, and you can go on to the next color. 1760 02:37:22.680 --> 02:37:24.280 Yeah, thank you. Good questions. Yeah, I think it would 1761 02:37:24.280 --> 02:37:30.879 really take somebody who probably goes deep into the actual history of you know, 1762 02:37:30.959 --> 02:37:35.120 the founding of it and what Ignacious is really into. And I just don't 1763 02:37:35.200 --> 02:37:41.719 have the knowledge of that to say for sure. David Reid, So, 1764 02:37:41.920 --> 02:37:48.520 David Reid, Hey, what's up, Jay, Thanks for letting me back 1765 02:37:48.600 --> 02:37:56.159 on. Hey, So, another question I had was there was a point 1766 02:37:56.239 --> 02:38:03.559 in the discussion with the team Zoomer where he kind of pressed the idea that 1767 02:38:03.879 --> 02:38:11.719 if somebody has the potential to shin or not sin, that would entail the 1768 02:38:11.840 --> 02:38:16.360 fact that they could have stained from sin indefinitely. Yeah, but he we 1769 02:38:16.440 --> 02:38:20.040 didn't. I didn't want to go into the Mary talk because it's a whole 1770 02:38:20.079 --> 02:38:24.639 other issue to talk about the sinlessness and the ever virginity of Mary with a 1771 02:38:24.680 --> 02:38:26.799 Calvinist. Even though John Calvin believed in the ever virginity of Mary. The 1772 02:38:26.879 --> 02:38:33.200 point was that Mary is different because Mary was at every point in her life 1773 02:38:33.360 --> 02:38:37.879 given grace and aided so that she wouldn't sin. And I just didn't even 1774 02:38:37.879 --> 02:38:41.079 feel like going down that route. So that's because we believe that people can 1775 02:38:41.799 --> 02:38:46.680 have the effects of the sin and still not be guilty for the sin, 1776 02:38:46.840 --> 02:38:48.559 and the Calvinist doesn't believe that, right. So Mary is somebody who, 1777 02:38:48.639 --> 02:38:52.920 for us, she felt all the effects of adam sin and yet herself still 1778 02:38:54.000 --> 02:38:58.920 did not sin, and so she's a proof against inherited guilt. So that's 1779 02:38:58.000 --> 02:39:05.920 the strong point of Mary. But Mary is not identical to us because we 1780 02:39:05.479 --> 02:39:09.040 uh for the most part right do not concede to grace. So what he's 1781 02:39:09.079 --> 02:39:13.920 ignoring. He's thinking of in a Pelagian way, like Mary was sinless, 1782 02:39:15.200 --> 02:39:18.840 like Pelagias thought about it. Mary was sinless because of grace, right, 1783 02:39:20.000 --> 02:39:24.479 And so it was a tremendous amount of grace that helped and kept Mary from 1784 02:39:24.600 --> 02:39:30.120 being a sinner in terms of actual sin. But the rest of us are 1785 02:39:30.319 --> 02:39:35.200 not going to be free from actual sin, right, Okay, So there 1786 02:39:35.319 --> 02:39:41.680 was a provision given for Mary in those situations where she might have sinned as 1787 02:39:41.760 --> 02:39:50.360 in that grace. I think we could say that, Okay, okay, 1788 02:39:50.680 --> 02:39:56.079 interesting, and so I mean she's the most grace, She's the most grace 1789 02:39:56.239 --> 02:40:01.200 of all women in all creatures, right right. And for the record, 1790 02:40:01.399 --> 02:40:05.479 coming into the church, I've had a Pallagian background, and so that's why 1791 02:40:05.959 --> 02:40:09.600 that was still something I was kind of thinking about, you know, trying 1792 02:40:09.639 --> 02:40:13.639 to work through. Well, remember that we're conceiving of grace. We're conceiving 1793 02:40:13.680 --> 02:40:16.840 of grace as different things between us and a Calvinist. So a Calvinist conceive 1794 02:40:16.920 --> 02:40:22.680 of grace as God's dispositional attitude towards you changing. So you're in grace when 1795 02:40:22.719 --> 02:40:26.639 God's no longer mad at you and hating you, right right, that's after 1796 02:40:26.719 --> 02:40:31.559 regeneration. So, but we don't think of grace as merely this dispositional stance. 1797 02:40:33.040 --> 02:40:37.120 Grace is an actual living power within you, that is an uncreated energy. 1798 02:40:37.680 --> 02:40:41.040 So Mary always had that uncreated energy and power within her at work, 1799 02:40:43.120 --> 02:40:48.479 and she was supremely graced above all of the other human beings. So and 1800 02:40:48.600 --> 02:40:52.520 so the Calvinist is missing the synergenzing as well. There, yes, and 1801 02:40:52.600 --> 02:40:56.520 they because they conceive of it entirely different. Okay, all right, yeah, 1802 02:40:56.520 --> 02:41:01.360 that makes that makes sense because it's a simple act of God's will correct 1803 02:41:01.559 --> 02:41:07.559 to change his disposition towards you. Okay, all right, right right, 1804 02:41:07.760 --> 02:41:11.959 okay, that's very helpful. And then just one more question if I may 1805 02:41:13.440 --> 02:41:20.959 sure, Okay, sorry, I'm trying to put this. So in the 1806 02:41:20.719 --> 02:41:26.520 p s A model, the penis substitution aerotiement, they say, I've heard 1807 02:41:26.559 --> 02:41:33.520 William Lane Craig's articulation that they don't that. Basically, he says that the 1808 02:41:33.680 --> 02:41:39.040 Christ felt the separation of God. Yeah, well again that's anti trinitarian, 1809 02:41:39.159 --> 02:41:43.520 right, Jesus is a divine person. A divine person cannot be separated from 1810 02:41:43.680 --> 02:41:48.280 God or from the Father. And he said, in an economic sense, 1811 02:41:48.639 --> 02:41:52.399 you particularly use that. It doesn't matter whether he qualifies it. It doesn't 1812 02:41:52.399 --> 02:41:56.760 It doesn't matter whether he qualifies it as that or not, because that he 1813 02:41:58.159 --> 02:42:03.280 but he refers to the divine person of this. There's no human person Jesus 1814 02:42:03.399 --> 02:42:07.479 Nazareth. That's the Aryan or the Nestorian view, who is separated from God. 1815 02:42:09.399 --> 02:42:16.040 He equals second person of the Godhead. So the second person of Godhead 1816 02:42:16.120 --> 02:42:20.040 can't be separated from the Trinity. Right to be separated from God means that 1817 02:42:20.280 --> 02:42:24.399 the Holy Spirit no longer dwells you. It would mean that the Father's will 1818 02:42:24.479 --> 02:42:26.760 is set against you. So that would mean that the Trinity is now no 1819 02:42:26.920 --> 02:42:31.360 longer the case. Because Jesus doesn't share the same will as the Father, 1820 02:42:31.639 --> 02:42:35.879 the Holy Spirit no longer resides within him. There's no by the way, 1821 02:42:35.920 --> 02:42:41.520 there's also by the way, it would also undo paraquis the dwelling. The 1822 02:42:41.600 --> 02:42:45.840 Father would no longer dwell the son. What I believe. I believe he 1823 02:42:45.920 --> 02:42:50.639 denies para Creesius. He doesn't believe in operations or anything like that. Yeah, 1824 02:42:50.680 --> 02:42:52.799 but he's also an apollinarian, So I mean, I don't know why 1825 02:42:52.799 --> 02:42:58.200 anybody listens to William Lane Craig anyway. But right, okay, yeah, 1826 02:42:58.239 --> 02:43:03.239 yeah, that's fair, that's fair. So okay, good questions, APPI 1827 02:43:03.360 --> 02:43:13.680 it. I think this would be the last one I'm gonna have to head 1828 02:43:13.680 --> 02:43:16.799 out. So I'm trying to final Let's see who looks like they're ready to 1829 02:43:18.559 --> 02:43:24.559 set me straight? Who looks nasty and mean? Let's try flame, Flame, 1830 02:43:26.040 --> 02:43:35.840 Flame looks like he's gonna set us straight? Hello, yes, sir? 1831 02:43:39.399 --> 02:43:41.639 Is the scream ending soon? Or how much time do we have? 1832 02:43:41.600 --> 02:43:43.520 Well, it depends on what you want to talk about. What what do 1833 02:43:43.559 --> 02:43:48.760 you want to get into? Okay, So I want to talk about biblical 1834 02:43:48.879 --> 02:43:52.600 morality specifically, So before I start, I just want to talk about intuitive 1835 02:43:54.399 --> 02:43:58.440 I just want to talk about where I based my root it because that's the 1836 02:43:58.559 --> 02:44:03.280 question usually that you don't So it's one on intuitive morality. So I think 1837 02:44:03.319 --> 02:44:09.000 people are born with an intuitive morality and then its changed or repressed through cultural 1838 02:44:09.200 --> 02:44:11.719 and propaganda and stuff. Okay, what what is like? Is what's the 1839 02:44:13.159 --> 02:44:16.559 just a biological drive? What is the intuitive morality? Well? I think 1840 02:44:16.639 --> 02:44:24.520 it's God given specifically, what God? What God? Whoa I'm not well, 1841 02:44:24.520 --> 02:44:28.440 I'm not exactly sure. But what I do want to say, Well, 1842 02:44:28.479 --> 02:44:30.319 how do you know it's God given if you don't know what God it 1843 02:44:30.440 --> 02:44:33.959 is? Well, because I think you can get people from all sorts of 1844 02:44:35.079 --> 02:44:37.799 cultures, so you can get people from every culture and they would know that 1845 02:44:37.000 --> 02:44:39.799 murder, lying, is stealing is wrong. They may have different ideas what 1846 02:44:39.920 --> 02:44:43.280 it means. But well, but what if my God that's intuitively giving me 1847 02:44:43.399 --> 02:44:46.600 my morals is the devil and I think that those things are not wrong. 1848 02:44:48.319 --> 02:44:50.920 Well, I think you would know, But I just want to get to 1849 02:44:52.000 --> 02:44:56.520 my main argument first. So, because my argument is a critique. So 1850 02:44:56.559 --> 02:45:01.120 you say that you based your morality on on God in the Bible, but 1851 02:45:01.559 --> 02:45:03.399 you said you buy your morality on God too, but then you couldn't tell 1852 02:45:03.440 --> 02:45:05.239 me what God it was, So I'm not sure you're going to have a 1853 02:45:05.280 --> 02:45:09.559 good basis for a critique. Yeah. Well, because I mean it is 1854 02:45:09.680 --> 02:45:13.000 mainly my own. I mean, it might not be a good argument for 1855 02:45:13.120 --> 02:45:16.719 me because it is a subjective. Okay, there we go. So yeah, 1856 02:45:16.879 --> 02:45:20.920 so it's objective, Nice, go ahead, But my main argument is 1857 02:45:20.959 --> 02:45:24.799 a critic of a critic of biblical morality. So my I would go, 1858 02:45:26.360 --> 02:45:30.600 Sorry, I don't usually do talk, so I'm a bit rvous. I 1859 02:45:30.760 --> 02:45:35.000 just want to, okay. So with biblical morality, when we go back 1860 02:45:35.120 --> 02:45:43.639 this, it just seems it seems like kind of okay, it seems very 1861 02:45:45.600 --> 02:45:50.159 arbitrary to me. So for example, when when it says that the son 1862 02:45:50.319 --> 02:45:52.840 won't pay for the sins of the father, but then for example in the 1863 02:45:52.920 --> 02:45:56.600 Bible, God kills all the first month sons of Egypt, or when he 1864 02:45:56.719 --> 02:46:01.479 kills David's son for for a sin that David did, or when he tells 1865 02:46:01.559 --> 02:46:05.760 Abraham to sacrifice his son even though he stops him, I still see it 1866 02:46:05.799 --> 02:46:11.840 as like the act itself is basically still done in that way. So from 1867 02:46:13.280 --> 02:46:20.959 the way I see it, the way I see it is that how can 1868 02:46:22.040 --> 02:46:28.559 I how can I really worship someone like that? When it's just it seems 1869 02:46:28.639 --> 02:46:33.319 like the morality changes us to depending on what God says. So murder is 1870 02:46:33.360 --> 02:46:37.239 wrong until it isn't. And like, no, murder is always wrong. 1871 02:46:37.479 --> 02:46:41.639 Murder is different from killing, So those are two different things. So murder 1872 02:46:41.760 --> 02:46:48.760 is always wrong, killing is not. So when God orders the Israelites to 1873 02:46:48.879 --> 02:46:52.200 murder like the children of this or that tribe, isn't that technically a sin? 1874 02:46:52.440 --> 02:46:56.360 I mean, I know there's a sense of a collective morality, So 1875 02:46:56.879 --> 02:47:00.319 if a group does something, they are punished as a group, even there's 1876 02:47:00.360 --> 02:47:03.239 members of that group that didn't do anything wrong. So like the infants and 1877 02:47:03.319 --> 02:47:07.760 the children, and then there's like was it the Book of Samuel, I 1878 02:47:07.840 --> 02:47:13.000 mean, when God was differentiating between the children and the infants, start are 1879 02:47:13.040 --> 02:47:16.000 still suckling, and he said kill them both, and he said kill all 1880 02:47:16.000 --> 02:47:20.319 the animals. And then he punished Samuel. He punished was Saul, King 1881 02:47:20.479 --> 02:47:24.319 Saul. Yeah, he punished King Saul because he didn't kill a cow, 1882 02:47:26.159 --> 02:47:28.959 but he wanted to sacrifice it later. But then he punished him anyway, 1883 02:47:28.959 --> 02:47:31.799 and I think that was the reason why he replaced him with David. Correct. 1884 02:47:33.040 --> 02:47:37.559 And then I mean, and then there's other questionable things that God did, 1885 02:47:37.680 --> 02:47:41.159 like for example, with Job, Like in the Old Testament, you're 1886 02:47:41.200 --> 02:47:45.680 constantly promised that if you never a righteous life, God will reward you and 1887 02:47:45.719 --> 02:47:50.079 stuff. But then Joe was specifically punished because he lived the righteous life, 1888 02:47:50.120 --> 02:47:54.040 because he was it was this idea that he was being tested by God. 1889 02:47:54.079 --> 02:47:58.000 So I mean, it just seems that whatever you do, you just end 1890 02:47:58.120 --> 02:48:03.120 up losing enough. And with God, it just seems that he's constantly like 1891 02:48:03.760 --> 02:48:07.959 he says murder is wrong, but then he commits murder on inn Like when 1892 02:48:07.000 --> 02:48:11.920 I say murder, I mean killing of innocence, right, But I know 1893 02:48:11.000 --> 02:48:15.239 there's a difference between killing and murder. Well, but the difference is that, 1894 02:48:15.520 --> 02:48:18.879 right, But the difference is that God has the right to decide when 1895 02:48:20.040 --> 02:48:24.079 life and death can be ended or when it can be postponed. Right. 1896 02:48:24.159 --> 02:48:26.879 So in other words, every system will have to have some ultimate sort of 1897 02:48:28.079 --> 02:48:33.760 lynch pin or some ultimate authority by which you say that it's wrong or right. 1898 02:48:33.000 --> 02:48:37.959 Right. So if God decides that in those cases it is right to 1899 02:48:39.079 --> 02:48:41.559 do that, in our view, it's not out of a chord with the 1900 02:48:41.680 --> 02:48:46.040 rest of God's morals and his ethics, because God knows infinitely more than we 1901 02:48:46.200 --> 02:48:50.600 know. And so like in the book of Job that you mentioned, the 1902 02:48:50.680 --> 02:48:54.079 thing that the decision at the end is that, well, God says to 1903 02:48:54.200 --> 02:48:56.399 Job, how are you going to judge when I make these judgment calls? 1904 02:48:56.559 --> 02:49:01.799 If you can't even figure out the cred order, how much more would you 1905 02:49:01.840 --> 02:49:05.000 be able to figure out and understand the uncreated order. So the point is 1906 02:49:05.079 --> 02:49:11.319 that every system will have to have some point at which you can't appeal any 1907 02:49:11.440 --> 02:49:15.959 further right. And so that's where it becomes right or wrong is not in 1908 02:49:16.079 --> 02:49:20.200 some arbitrary, abstract standard of invariant and personal laws, but in an actual 1909 02:49:20.280 --> 02:49:24.879 personal being who can make the decisions as to win that is correct and when 1910 02:49:24.920 --> 02:49:28.079 that is not correct. In other words, God would, for example, 1911 02:49:28.239 --> 02:49:33.520 know all future contingencies. So had this people group been allowed to live, 1912 02:49:33.719 --> 02:49:37.200 they might have exterminated the seed of the Messiah. Right, we don't know, 1913 02:49:37.440 --> 02:49:41.799 right, all of the different contingencies that could have occurred, had all 1914 02:49:41.879 --> 02:49:46.440 of the what we could say are tainted or infected people that lived at that 1915 02:49:46.600 --> 02:49:50.680 time, that had engaged in extremely brutal and wicked practices. So if when 1916 02:49:50.719 --> 02:49:54.719 you read Leviticus, the reason the Promised Land is cleansed is because the people 1917 02:49:54.760 --> 02:50:01.559 had become extremely degenerate, and so in God's wisdom, there was a need 1918 02:50:01.639 --> 02:50:05.920 to get rid of all of that people group for the purpose of the furtherance 1919 02:50:07.000 --> 02:50:11.079 of the Messianic line that lineage. Right, So it was ultimately it wasn't 1920 02:50:11.159 --> 02:50:16.440 just because God wanted to just worship the Dna of Jews. It was because 1921 02:50:16.799 --> 02:50:22.200 they were to present and produce the Messiah that would be the one that would 1922 02:50:22.760 --> 02:50:26.559 save the world. So to say then that, well, but God is 1923 02:50:28.079 --> 02:50:33.239 wrong for making decisions as to win its right for him or for me, 1924 02:50:33.440 --> 02:50:37.479 Because if you look at when this discussion comes up in Is, it's Hannah's 1925 02:50:37.520 --> 02:50:41.920 prayer. She says, he's the one that rises up and makes others low. 1926 02:50:43.479 --> 02:50:46.559 He has the right to light, to life and death right, so 1927 02:50:46.639 --> 02:50:50.639 he has the power to kill and to heal. Right. So, in 1928 02:50:50.760 --> 02:50:56.159 other words, if we're going to say that it's wrong for God to do 1929 02:50:56.360 --> 02:51:03.079 that in these cases, we need a basis, a moral position from which 1930 02:51:03.159 --> 02:51:05.719 to say that it's wrong. And I don't think that it's a contradiction to 1931 02:51:05.799 --> 02:51:09.280 say that in some case, like for example, Exodus says you can engage 1932 02:51:09.319 --> 02:51:13.440 in self defense, right, so in those cases self defense isn't murder, 1933 02:51:16.319 --> 02:51:22.399 Okay. So I mean my basis is like intuitive morality. I believe everybody 1934 02:51:22.520 --> 02:51:26.879 is born with that, like for example, like you say, but you 1935 02:51:26.920 --> 02:51:28.840 already said that's subjective and you don't know where it comes from. So how 1936 02:51:28.959 --> 02:51:33.239 is that that's not going to work as a as an argument against a Yeah, 1937 02:51:33.280 --> 02:51:37.200 I said that before, but honestly, I believe that we will have 1938 02:51:37.479 --> 02:51:39.079 the same morality. I don't think it's subjective. Well, you know what, 1939 02:51:39.159 --> 02:51:41.840 but even okay, hold on, but even if that were true, 1940 02:51:43.120 --> 02:51:46.760 that doesn't tell us whether it's right or not. Okay, So, for 1941 02:51:46.879 --> 02:51:50.639 for example, I can give a very a specific one where we can't like 1942 02:51:50.920 --> 02:51:52.319 so for example, when it comes to rape, like do you need God 1943 02:51:52.399 --> 02:51:54.520 to tell you that rape is wrong? Or don't you just into it? 1944 02:51:54.719 --> 02:51:58.719 It doesn't that's not it. But that's missing the objection. So the objection 1945 02:51:58.920 --> 02:52:03.840 is not, like I said to James Sexton, could I, as a 1946 02:52:03.920 --> 02:52:09.120 secular person decide to choose the morals of the Ten Commandments without God? Yeah? 1947 02:52:09.719 --> 02:52:16.280 But that's not that's that's avoiding the objection that what's the justification for choosing 1948 02:52:16.360 --> 02:52:18.719 that? Why would we Why do we think that that's true? And if 1949 02:52:18.760 --> 02:52:22.520 you just say well, because it works, that's arbitrary. So that's not 1950 02:52:22.600 --> 02:52:26.120 a good reason to say, well, I can have the morals without without 1951 02:52:26.159 --> 02:52:31.000 the deity. I mean, I know, I think our intuitive morals comes 1952 02:52:31.120 --> 02:52:35.040 from God. Now, but you couldn't tell me who that God is or 1953 02:52:35.079 --> 02:52:37.680 why that's the case. And you can't. Just saying that there's intuitive morals 1954 02:52:39.120 --> 02:52:43.479 doesn't tell me what those morals are or whether that's even right. What if 1955 02:52:43.520 --> 02:52:50.959 my moral what if my intuitive morals are wrong? M Yeah, I mean 1956 02:52:50.639 --> 02:52:56.159 people could be born with different kinds of intuition, but I still think that's 1957 02:52:58.120 --> 02:53:01.000 slightly better than I mean, for example, with biblical Marati, like when 1958 02:53:01.159 --> 02:53:05.680 Moses says that you have to kill what was it? Was it the Medianites? 1959 02:53:05.719 --> 02:53:09.479 I think I'm not sure which tribe it was. I think it was 1960 02:53:09.639 --> 02:53:15.440 Medianites when they says like you have to kill all the people and boys and 1961 02:53:15.520 --> 02:53:18.719 whatever, but you can keep the little girls alive and you can like have 1962 02:53:18.879 --> 02:53:22.159 your way with them, Like if this was like a corrupt people and a 1963 02:53:22.239 --> 02:53:26.239 corrupt blood. In this instance, God didn't say you could have your way 1964 02:53:26.319 --> 02:53:30.200 with the women of the He said that when you conquered the tribe, there 1965 02:53:30.239 --> 02:53:31.719 were laws of marriage. He didn't say you just have your way with them. 1966 02:53:33.319 --> 02:53:35.879 Well, it was the virgin little girls of the median Kites, I 1967 02:53:35.959 --> 02:53:39.239 think. I think, yeah, they they became what they had their hair 1968 02:53:39.319 --> 02:53:41.879 shorn and they become brides. Right, you can't just have your way with 1969 02:53:43.000 --> 02:53:46.719 them, Okay, yeah, yeah, I've worked out before. I mean, 1970 02:53:46.440 --> 02:53:52.879 yeah, things like that. And I mean with this idea that God 1971 02:53:52.040 --> 02:53:58.079 just knows everything, So in this idea can, So whatever God does, 1972 02:53:58.159 --> 02:54:01.799 it's always correct in that sense. Yeah, but I mean that's not it's 1973 02:54:01.879 --> 02:54:05.399 not inconsistent because that's who is the ultimate standard in our worldview. Right. 1974 02:54:07.879 --> 02:54:11.000 But like, if he is the ultimate standard, he could pretty much break 1975 02:54:11.040 --> 02:54:15.280 all his rules and still say this and then tell people no, that's all 1976 02:54:15.559 --> 02:54:18.120 that's a Calvinist view, that's theological voluntarism. So no, he can't just 1977 02:54:18.200 --> 02:54:22.559 do anything and break all his rules, right, So for example, God 1978 02:54:22.680 --> 02:54:30.440 cannot lie, Paul says, can God? Can God like manipulate or force 1979 02:54:30.520 --> 02:54:35.000 people to do things that he wants? No, he doesn't force people to 1980 02:54:35.079 --> 02:54:39.399 do things, but he does, like for example, with the Pharaoh and 1981 02:54:39.479 --> 02:54:41.319 ex of this, he hardened his heart. Yeah, and if you read 1982 02:54:41.360 --> 02:54:46.760 the other verse, it says how he hardened Pharaoh's heart by letting Pharaoh choose 1983 02:54:48.639 --> 02:54:50.680 giving giving Pharaoh up to his own desires is what it says. So you're 1984 02:54:50.719 --> 02:54:54.760 just you're missing the other passage which explains how that occurs. Are you a 1985 02:54:54.840 --> 02:55:01.319 Muslim? You sound like you've got like an Islamic sort of Calvinist argumentation going 1986 02:55:01.360 --> 02:55:05.280 on here. I mean those I mean, I've I've studied a lot of 1987 02:55:05.360 --> 02:55:09.200 religions. I mean, I've been raised in a I've been raised in a 1988 02:55:09.319 --> 02:55:13.639 Christian family. But I mean the closest thing I'll call myself right now would 1989 02:55:13.680 --> 02:55:16.840 be okay, now, I actually do't want to talk about it. But 1990 02:55:18.239 --> 02:55:22.719 why would you not want to say? I mean, if your position, 1991 02:55:22.840 --> 02:55:26.680 if your position is right, why don't you don't you want us to believe 1992 02:55:26.719 --> 02:55:30.600 it? Well, because I think people have different ideas of what it is 1993 02:55:30.760 --> 02:55:33.079 and what I have an idea of what it is. Okay, well, 1994 02:55:33.079 --> 02:55:35.079 what's your idea of what it is? What is it? And what's your 1995 02:55:35.079 --> 02:55:39.280 idea of it? Well, my idea of it is mainly well, some 1996 02:55:39.399 --> 02:55:45.399 people consider it satanic. I don't think it is like hermeticism, Like I 1997 02:55:45.559 --> 02:55:52.040 think that we are meant to transform ourselves into like good people in that sense, 1998 02:55:52.079 --> 02:55:54.920 because this idea of turning lead to gold means like from what I've read 1999 02:55:54.959 --> 02:56:01.840 about it is you turn good, not good like you this idea that it 2000 02:56:01.920 --> 02:56:05.760 is through alchemy, personal alchemy, so it's basically changing personality, you become 2001 02:56:07.120 --> 02:56:09.680 good over time. Like I'm still a lame and I should read more about 2002 02:56:09.719 --> 02:56:18.959 it, and what is the good? Well, the good in that sense, 2003 02:56:18.879 --> 02:56:22.639 I think it could relate a lot to the Golden Rule. Why is 2004 02:56:22.680 --> 02:56:28.000 the Golden rule? The good sounds arbitrary? Hold on, so why isn't 2005 02:56:28.040 --> 02:56:31.799 it lex talionis eye for an eye? Why is it the Golden Rule? 2006 02:56:35.399 --> 02:56:37.360 Well, I mean, is there something that is there, like a good 2007 02:56:37.440 --> 02:56:41.760 action that you would do that you would want done to yourself? Asking me 2008 02:56:41.840 --> 02:56:45.120 a question, and I'm saying, this is your view, So you tell 2009 02:56:45.200 --> 02:56:52.079 me why the good is the Golden rule and not lex teleianness? Well, 2010 02:56:52.120 --> 02:57:03.200 the goods mm hm, well hm hmm. Well you know what. How 2011 02:57:03.200 --> 02:57:05.319 about this? You think on it and then come back to the next stream 2012 02:57:05.479 --> 02:57:09.680 and then I'll let you back on. I've got to go to a Christmas 2013 02:57:09.840 --> 02:57:13.680 Eve Western papal dinner tonight, so but thank you for coming on. I 2014 02:57:13.760 --> 02:57:16.040 appreciate it, not trying to be rude. I do have to leave, 2015 02:57:16.600 --> 02:57:18.719 and I want to remind you guys to head on over at chalk dot Comu's 2016 02:57:18.719 --> 02:57:22.600 prom COJ fifty to give fifty percent off. Timple hat Girl says for five 2017 02:57:22.639 --> 02:57:24.040 dollars, I have a question. I'm sorry I didn't see this until just 2018 02:57:24.159 --> 02:57:31.840 now. You can go ask father Anonius on Twitter, what is the relationship 2019 02:57:31.879 --> 02:57:37.360 that we have to kids after we die and go into the Escaton. I've 2020 02:57:37.399 --> 02:57:39.799 not had a good answer this question. Well, I mean, what do 2021 02:57:39.879 --> 02:57:43.000 you like, we're all you can ask him this, but I mean, 2022 02:57:43.040 --> 02:57:46.719 we all have the same bodies in the resurrection. I don't think the resurrection 2023 02:57:46.920 --> 02:57:48.600 is going to be People think that, like I'm not saying you say this, 2024 02:57:48.719 --> 02:57:52.840 but people think Heaven is like we're all these sort of balls of ghost 2025 02:57:54.040 --> 02:57:58.600 dust floating around and staring at ideas in Heaven or now it's a bodily resurrection. 2026 02:58:01.360 --> 02:58:05.280 It's like Jesus came out of their tomb with a body, same body 2027 02:58:05.319 --> 02:58:11.559 that he had before. So we'll have a new heavens and a new Earth 2028 02:58:11.559 --> 02:58:18.840 with bodies and we'll move around and do stuff. Heaven isn't Heaven is the 2029 02:58:18.920 --> 02:58:24.280 Escaton. New Heaven's new Earth. It's not like it's like Eden was supposed 2030 02:58:24.280 --> 02:58:24.000 to be, and it's the whole