WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:06.400 If Biden is reelected, we as a community need to be prepared to have 2 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:18.800 an arsenal of legal resources because four more years of this critical crypto agenda just 3 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:24.120 means there's going to be more enforcement actions, more lawsuits. And while the 4 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:29.879 industry has gotten many favorable results over the past couple of years, I don't 5 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:40.079 think these attacks are going to slow down. This content is brought to you 6 00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:45.280 by v chain, which is a leading enterprise grade Layer one public blockchain spearheading 7 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:50.600 a digital revolution from a sustainable, highly scalable smart contract platform. The v 8 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:55.799 chain blockchain has many unique features, which makes it an ideal choice for Web 9 00:00:55.880 --> 00:01:00.439 three applications. V chain is working with many great enterprises such as PWCGVONCI, 10 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:06.680 BMW, and Walmart China. Most recently, they partnered with the Boston Consulting 11 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:12.640 Group to build a revolutionary decentralized application ecosystem. I'm a big believer in this 12 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:17.239 project. I have been since twenty eighteen. I've been a VET token holder 13 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:22.560 for years, and this blockchain is highly scalable, great with security and speed, 14 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:26.000 and it has low energy consumption. If you'd like to learn more about 15 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.920 v chain, please visit vchain dot org. Link will be in a description. 16 00:01:30.359 --> 00:01:36.120 Welcome to the Thinking Crypto podcast, your home for cryptocurrency news and interviews 17 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.799 with me. Today's Perian Boring, who's the founder of the Chamber of Digital 18 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.400 Commerce. Perran, great to have you back on, Hey Toddy, you 19 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:48.000 going to be here, Perryan. There's so much going on in the crypto 20 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:51.280 industry. Yes, we have bigcoin breaking new highs and all that, but 21 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:55.719 as it relates to politics and regulations, there's so much going on and I 22 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:59.400 have a lot of questions for you. Let's start with Kraken, because Krackin 23 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:04.280 filed and to dismiss against the SEC with their lawsuit, You and the folks 24 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:07.280 in the Chamber filed in a me case to support them, and then you 25 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:12.479 had eight state attorney generals backing Kracking. Now I would love to get your 26 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:16.919 thoughts on the entire situation there. Yeah, it is an extremely interesting case 27 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:21.199 to watch, and for those who have been following, you know, most 28 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:27.560 of the major cryptocurrency exchanges in the United States have all received enforcement actions from 29 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:30.080 the SEC, and a lot of them are in the middle of litigation, 30 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:34.879 so this is all going to the courts. Just to kind of summarize in 31 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.360 general, you know, very high level what this is all about. It 32 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:45.080 really comes down to the SEC trying to expand its jurisdiction as far as it 33 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.400 can get its tentacles into the cryptocurrency space. So kind of the age old 34 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:54.400 question and the age old debate, and this precedes Chairman counselors SEC is where 35 00:02:54.479 --> 00:03:00.759 is the line, you know, what cryptocurrencies are considered a security and which 36 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:06.000 ones are not? And Chairman Gensler is really saying that, well, all 37 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:10.560 of them are, which of course is it is not correct. So and 38 00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:15.199 then they came after Crack and you know, saying you're you know, you're 39 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:21.919 trading and you're listing essentially unregistered securities. So now they're in litigation over that. 40 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:27.919 So they have filed emotion to dismiss what they're asking the court to just 41 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:36.120 completely dismiss the entire case because of how faulty the SEC's arguments are. And 42 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:39.439 you know, one of the biggest faults with the you know, the SEC's 43 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:46.800 analysis is there's no limitation doctrine, so where does where does the end start? 44 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:49.800 So there were some like really funny conversations about like, hey, well 45 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.719 if this you know, if this logic applies to cryptocurrency. That means that 46 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:58.800 like you know, anything that could appreciate in price would be considered a security. 47 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:01.520 So like, are my beanie base these unregistered securities? What about like 48 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:04.719 my Nike shoes? Like you know, some people, you know, sneakerheads 49 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:09.120 buy those, save them and they may sell for more money in the future, 50 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:12.800 Like are those down securities? Of course not. So that's really what 51 00:04:12.840 --> 00:04:15.879 it's come down to. So they've filed emotion to dismiss our amicist brief supports 52 00:04:15.959 --> 00:04:20.879 cracking, and we really just you know, agree with that notion that it's 53 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:29.360 it's legal analysis of cryptocurrency is deeply flawed, and if the SEC wants to 54 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:33.399 expand it, well, the SEC cannot expand its jurisdiction and the courts need 55 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:40.879 to enforce that. Only Congress has the statutory authority to tell the agencies what 56 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:45.720 their uh, their uh their reyatory powers are and what they apply to. 57 00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:48.439 They can't just utilize orly say okay, now we oversee this. That's just 58 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:53.120 not how the rule of law works in this country. And so they're trying 59 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:57.040 to like assert that jurisdiction you know, crack and saying we need to dismiss 60 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:00.720 and then we don't want the courts to kind of endorse the because only Congress 61 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:04.920 can give that type of authority to any regulatory agency. We don't want to 62 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:10.519 set it back legal president. So we filed our brief on Tuesday, and 63 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:15.680 then on Thursday there was another brief that was filed with a attorneys general. 64 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:21.279 Their brief was not in support of either the plaintiff or the defendant. They 65 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:26.160 were really just filing on their own behalf as a friend of the core. 66 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:32.800 But their core argument did coincide with the exact same arguments we were making. 67 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:38.680 They weren't necessarily getting into it. You do we support this or support that. 68 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:43.120 It's more we're the states, we have jurisdiction in this space. We 69 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:48.439 don't want the courts to endorse the SEC expanding its jurisdiction without congressional authority, 70 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:54.680 because that then completely messes up the entire regulatory framework for the federal government as 71 00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:00.800 well as the states. And again that policy making needs to happen with Congress. 72 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:05.120 So it's really rare that you would see attorneys general get involved at this 73 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:15.000 level of a case, and it was extremely positive overall for them. While 74 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.120 they didn't you submit a brief necessarily on behalf of krack In. It did 75 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:24.639 endorse a lot of the exact same things the cryptocurrency industry is making, including 76 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:30.959 US and krack In, and it really just shows that the SEC's approach to 77 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:36.480 cryptocurrency is flawed. Yeah, absolutely, Imperian. I would love to get 78 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:41.199 your point of view as to what's happening in DC as it relates to the 79 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:46.759 SEC and how Democrats and even Republicans are viewing the SEC now because they got 80 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:50.680 called arbitrary and capricious in the Gray Scale case. In the Ripple case, 81 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:55.879 they lost a significant part of that lawsuit obviously still going on. In the 82 00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:00.639 debt Box situation, they got the judge threatened to sanction SEC lawyers, and 83 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:04.680 you have the sa B one to one, which the Government Accountability Office said 84 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:10.240 is unlawful. So has the point of view of what Gary Aganser and the 85 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:14.480 SEC are doing. Has that changed, especially on the democratic side. Yeah, 86 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:18.240 it's it's an interesting discussion to have. And the Securities and Exchange Commission, 87 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:23.160 as well as most of the other regulatory bodies, they weren't political. 88 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:31.439 They weren't originally created to be these vehicles to execute a political mission. Most 89 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:36.160 of the commissioners at the Securities and Exchange Commission today don't have actually any experience 90 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:42.759 working in the security space. They are political appointees. It didn't used to 91 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.439 be like that. It used to be very boring, you know. You 92 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:50.600 know, the conversations were you know, really technical, you know, ensuring 93 00:07:50.759 --> 00:08:00.560 that companies were following the properate disclosure requirements. But it's transformed over the which 94 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:05.800 is why personally I'm a proponent of like full political reform in this country and 95 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:11.480 this is just kind of one one example of that. But it's turned very 96 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:16.240 political, and so obviously the Democrats are in charge, you know, with 97 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:22.439 the Biden administration. Chairman Gensler was you know selected by the President to serve 98 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:28.480 in this role, obviously confirmed by the Senate. But you know, a 99 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:33.720 lot, a lot of what we see at the SEC and other agencies is 100 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:39.200 there, uh, you know, effectuating a mission that's driven politically. Uh. 101 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:45.879 And that's really disruptive to to the markets. And that's why you know, 102 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:50.759 you see like really big shifts from administration to administration, which is also 103 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:56.559 extremely disruptive to the market. So this is you know, it's turned very 104 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:00.480 political. Uh. We would like to see it get back to you know, 105 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:05.559 more of a technical agency and leave the politics you know, somewhere else. 106 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:07.240 What do you think about And I don't know if you've seen this, 107 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:13.960 but Warren Davidson's restructuring the SEC act, I think it makes logical sense where 108 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:18.519 you know, it's more balanced and less political. Have you seen that I 109 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:22.240 have? That's you know, definitely a part of you know, these key 110 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:30.639 themes of instead of having a chairman and this particular administration, Chairman Gensler is 111 00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.919 really running the organization through the chairman's office. But it's meant to be a 112 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:41.559 commission where you have five commissioners and you have a chair but each commissioner plays 113 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:46.799 a significant role in the oversight of the SEC. And that's really not how 114 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:52.360 it's being done in practice today. So what Congressman Warren Davidson is putting forward 115 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.679 is something that would put it back towards more of like a typical board structure 116 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:05.120 where you have multiple you know, commissioners or board members who can level each 117 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:09.120 other out in the event that politics start getting involved. And of course you 118 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:13.200 have you know, a certain number that are appointed by a Republican, a 119 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:16.840 certain number that are appointed by Democrats to try to make it less political. 120 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:20.519 But you know, it's it's a it's a good proposal and I think you 121 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:26.120 know the spirit of that we certainly agree with. And you know, ultimately 122 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:28.080 we need to get politics out of the radio story process in order to have 123 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:35.000 an efficient, efficient markets. Now, let's talk about what some would call 124 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.679 SAB one two one. I've been calling SAB one to one, but on 125 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:41.960 the House, in the House Financial Services Commute, I think they voted to 126 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:45.480 repeal this, but it has to make its way to the House floor to 127 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:48.879 be voted on. I would love to get your take on that, and 128 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:54.039 do you have any idea when that vote may take place. Yeah, So 129 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:58.840 SAB one twenty one. This is the Staff Accounting Bill to enter SAB SAB 130 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:03.519 one twenty one. These are custody rules that were issued by the SEC on 131 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:09.399 digital asset custodians. And what they say is that if a custodian is holding 132 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:13.480 a cryptocurrency like bitcloin on their balance sheet, then they have to have one 133 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:18.759 hundred percent reserves of another asset like cash. These are completely unworkable. Uh, 134 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.120 this really makes it financially, there's no business case there. It completely 135 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:30.799 you know, makes it really unworkable for and this applies to institutions. So 136 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.480 are you know our biggest custodians in the world, this is who This really 137 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:39.600 applies to banks, uh, in order to you know, custody digital assets. 138 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:43.080 It's really you know, makes it, you know, financially impossible. 139 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:48.080 They're totally unworkable, and it's proven to keep institutions out of the cryptocurrency space. 140 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:54.240 So you know, from my perspective, as we continue to grow the 141 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:58.360 cryptocurrency space, I mean our work here at the Chamber of Digital Commerce, 142 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.519 we're working to promote the acceptance and use of this technology. We want to 143 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:07.200 support the adoption of course, obviously done in a responsible way, but this 144 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.080 does the opposite of that. As we continue to grow and mature, there's 145 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:22.320 corporations and institutions and bigger players who need to have institutional appropriate custody solutions in 146 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:26.519 order to engage in our space. Without that, you're not going to see 147 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:30.639 institutions in our space in a meaningful way. So it's kind of like a 148 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:37.000 way to prevent adoption of certain types of actors in our community. So we 149 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:39.759 have once this came out, we were obviously advantly against it. All our 150 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:46.679 members are and We did a lot of work on the Hill to educate members 151 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:52.519 of Congress that hey, our biggest institutions in the world. Here are the 152 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:56.759 biggest institutions that we serve here in the United States. They are not going 153 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:01.000 to be able to compete globally with these types of draconian requirements on them. 154 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:05.720 We need to make sure our institutions can can compete and they can't with this. 155 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:13.720 So that led to the Government Accountability Office the GOO doing a review of 156 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:18.919 the staff accounting Bulletin one one. They just shoot a report late last year 157 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:24.039 that found that the SEC have violated yet again the Administrative Procedures Act and the 158 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:31.600 way they rolled these out, and therefore Congress can nullify or repeal it's Top 159 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:35.799 one twenty one. So a couple of weeks ago, our last month, 160 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:41.279 a joint resolution was introduced in both the House and the Senate to nullify or 161 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:48.840 repeal these rules. That passed the House Financial Services Committee last Thursday with bipartisan 162 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:52.559 support. That's really big. So we're talking about politics, right, So 163 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:56.279 you know, the SEC is obviously run by someone who's appointed within a democratic 164 00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:01.559 administration. A lot of times the Democrats they want to support their party so 165 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:05.200 they don't want to be critical for them to vote in support. Yeah, 166 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:11.039 not one but three Democrats vote in support of a Congressional Review Act, essentially 167 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:16.279 saying, hey, the CEC, like you guys did this wrong. Is 168 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:20.240 major, extremely difficult to do in the political environment that we work that we're 169 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:24.600 operating in, which just goes to show the egregiousness of what's happening at the 170 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:31.120 SEC today. So that's past House Vigil Services Committee. It needs to go 171 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:37.559 to the floor because it had bipartisan backing, its likelihood of passing the House 172 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:43.559 is quite high, and then it will go to Well, there's already been 173 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:50.720 a joint resolution issue are introduced concurrently in the Senate that only needs two Democrats 174 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:56.120 to pass the Senate, so we can get this done. It won't be 175 00:14:56.279 --> 00:15:01.720 easy, but it is attainable and achievable, and our staff is working around 176 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.879 the clock to secure the votes to full repeal these owner's rules on the crypto 177 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:11.679 space. And I saw, if I'm not mistaken, the banks Collective group 178 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:15.120 of banks did send a letter, I don't know if it was the SEC 179 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.559 talking about this that they can't pussy like bigcoin ETFs. If I'm not mistaken, 180 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.960 I'm not getting confused here. Part of it is stop one to one 181 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:26.720 wouldn't allow them to do that? Is that correct? It's it has proven 182 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:33.919 to deter all the institutions, including banks, from offering custody solutions. And 183 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:37.440 of course, you know they don't want to be limited of you know, 184 00:15:39.080 --> 00:15:43.360 what types of assets they can custody, So the banks are against this. 185 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:50.399 It applies mostly to banks. But these are draconian crypto rules and it and 186 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:54.919 it's you know, it's going to prevent institutional level adoption of cryptocurrency of these 187 00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:02.519 stay in place, and it already is m question for you, And this 188 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:06.919 might be a tough question to answer. We know Elizabeth Warren is working closely 189 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:14.440 with Gary against and she's been the one very vocal vocally publicly about being against 190 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.080 crypto, forming an anti crypto army. This reports that she's sending Gary Against 191 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:23.240 her questions and answers ahead of hearings and things like that. However, do 192 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:27.840 you feel both her and Gary have lost some of the win in their sales 193 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:33.440 with all these losses in courts, all these bad optics, and then with 194 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:38.960 the election coming up, could they potentially phivot a bit or soften their stance. 195 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:44.000 What do you think about that you might see that. I mean, 196 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:48.799 I think they've already done a lot of collateral damage across this country. I 197 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:52.720 think there's a lot of ground that's already been lost. There's so many different 198 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:59.000 crypto projects and innovations that Americans are geofenced from accessing, you know, due 199 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.279 to a lot of these efforts. So in many ways, you know, 200 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:07.319 they've won on a lot of fronts. As you know, Elizabeth Warren has 201 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:12.519 introduced a bill that would effectively ban in cryptocurrency today and there's nineteen co sponsors 202 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:17.240 on that bill, so basically twenty percent of the US Senate is on record 203 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:22.839 of banning cryptocurrency. We've been very loud about that. We also kind of 204 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:25.599 feel like our backs are up against a wall. Like if you're coming at 205 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:30.359 us trying to completely wipe out the entire industry, there's no other appropriate position 206 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:34.079 for us to take as cryptocurrency advocates. And that's kind of why we've been 207 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:41.240 so strong on this. But you know, there is an election coming up, 208 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:47.759 and it's it's it's interesting, So this bill that Elizabeth Warren has spearheaded, 209 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.640 you know, we've met with every single you know, nineteen office one 210 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:53.200 of the offices when we were like, hey, man, like this ain't 211 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:56.960 cool, Like why why are you trying to ban has like just tell us 212 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:00.640 straight up, like what is this about? And I won't tell you who 213 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.200 said this, but what they told me is that, you know, their 214 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:10.799 boss basically just thought crypto was a throwaway issue. That's the word they used, 215 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.880 that you know, all they really knew, all the senator really knew. 216 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:18.720 And of course most senators don't even send their own emails, so they 217 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:25.200 don't have a great technical knowledge of our space. We're working to improve that 218 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:27.519 and we've made progress, but there's still a lot of work to do on 219 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:33.200 the education front. But you know, what this member office told us was 220 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:37.480 that they, you know, all they really knew was FTX and this huge 221 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.759 you know, collapse and like no one cares about crypto anymore. Like it 222 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:44.799 didn't collapse, it's done. It's a fraud. Like that was like what 223 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.640 they actually thought. So they were thinking, oh, yeah, you know, 224 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:52.240 we'll do Elizabeth wore in this favor and crypto is a throwaway issue, 225 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:57.880 no one cares, no one's even gonna notice, and and that's why they're 226 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:03.400 on it. And We're like, what, so we have to show Congress 227 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:06.960 Krypto is not at the orow Way issue. You made a mistake. People 228 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:11.680 do care about their access to you know, technology and financial technology, and 229 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:17.680 don't take that away from people, especially while we're going through such turbulent you 230 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:22.160 know, economic and financial times, you know, don't take options off the 231 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:26.640 table, don't remove choices for Americans. So that's you know, that's what 232 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.480 we're doing. And could you know, well, will Elizabeth Warren changed her 233 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:36.480 tune now that you know the elections are a couple months away? I don't 234 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:38.359 know. To me, it doesn't really matter. You know, we we 235 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:42.519 know her position. She doesn't want us to exist. She doesn't think we 236 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:49.400 have a right to be here, and we're obviously fighting back. You know, 237 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:53.480 it's funny as you were saying about these other senators who are banning, 238 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:59.480 who are joining her in this, but they don't have a clue. It 239 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.720 makes me sad at the same time, but also optimisty because it's like, 240 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.480 Okay, it's a lack of education and they're just jumping on the ship with 241 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.079 Elizabeth Warren. But you know, you guys, for example, are in 242 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:14.839 DC educating, building awareness. So that's the good part. There's a solution, 243 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:17.960 but it's just sad that it's like, oh, we don't know about 244 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.640 this, but just follow Elizabeth. That's exactly right. Yeah, I do 245 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:23.960 think we can win this one. I do think we can totally kill this 246 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:29.319 bill, but it's going to take the community's support. So again, there's 247 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:33.319 nineteen members on this bill. It's called the Digital Asset Anti Money Laundering Actor, 248 00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:37.400 S two sixty sixty nine. You can look it up on Congress dot 249 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.359 gov. You can look up the list of nineteen Senators that are on it. 250 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:45.519 Colum show up to their town halls and say, hey, why are 251 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:51.200 you trying to essentially ban crypto? They may not even realize that's what the 252 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:55.440 bill does. You'll put them on record that make them defend their position. 253 00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.240 And if they signed on to this bill and they didn't realize it effectively bans 254 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:03.759 crypto and that's not really what they're supporting or endorsing, then tell them to 255 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.279 get off the bill. If they made a mistake, get off. They 256 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:11.519 have, you know, the option to do that, but we're gonna need 257 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.559 the communities help to do that. But prian, even with the Bitcoin's Body 258 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:22.519 TIF approvals and big names like Fidelity and black Rock involved. Is it Are 259 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.440 these people such in a echo chamber or in their own bubble in DC that 260 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:29.680 they're not seeing that. I mean, I understand if it was like a 261 00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:33.000 small crypto company at launch at big twenty TIF, but black Rock world's largest 262 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:38.359 asset manager. Are they not aware of that? Well? I think everyone 263 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:42.119 is aware of the spot bitcoin ETFs at this point because it was so highly 264 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:51.359 publicized the launch. But despite the ETF's launching earlier this year, and I 265 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:56.359 mean, I'm just looking at your bitcoin coop behind you, despite the price 266 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:00.279 paying at like sixty four sixty five at this time of recording, I'm March 267 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.680 fifth, there's still nineteen members on this bill right, Like, why haven't 268 00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:11.240 any of them removed their names? So I do. I am extremely optimistic 269 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:15.359 in the long run, but we still have pretty significant battles that we're facing 270 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:21.880 today. Sure, now, let's say Biden wins the election on it for 271 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.680 the folks those thing. I'm not trying to say I want Biden to when 272 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:29.039 I'm just saying in this scenario because people get very upset of politics. But 273 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:33.039 let's say Biden does win. Do you see Gary Genser retaining his role or 274 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:38.440 will he be swapped out. So he's serving a six year term, So 275 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:44.880 when his six years expires, I think he can stay on for one additional 276 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.079 year, but they would have to break they would have to nominate somebody new. 277 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.960 I don't know how long he would he would stay, but he has 278 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:57.960 you know, he has six years that he can stay. But I think 279 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:06.960 overall, if Biden is re elected, we as a community need to be 280 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:15.200 prepared to have an arsenal of legal resources because four more years of this critical 281 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:23.440 crypto agenda just means there's going to be more enforcement actions, more lawsuits. 282 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:30.839 And while the industry has gotten many favorable results over the past couple of years, 283 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:37.759 I don't think these attacks are going to slow down. So it's it's 284 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.480 I think it would require, you know, significant legal resources, and we 285 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.559 should be prepared for that in the event, in the event that is what 286 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:52.359 happens. Yeah, absolutely, And man, it's even though like you said, 287 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:55.720 we're winning and we're fighting back, it's costing a lot of money. 288 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:00.200 Some of these companies have to pay incredible amounts of capital to fight and with 289 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:04.640 legal fees and so forth. Now, speaking of election, John Deeton is 290 00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:08.000 running against Elizabeth Warren. I will love to get your thoughts on on what's 291 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:15.640 happening there. Yeah, it's really interesting. I'm glad that John is running 292 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:26.400 because that's that's been a tough seat the general. I guess idea or agreement 293 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:33.599 is that this is a significant you know, blue state and it's just you 294 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:36.680 know, hard for a Republican to win, which is why you know, 295 00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:45.519 there wasn't really any like real GOP challenger to Elizabeth Warren. And I'm not 296 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:49.799 totally sure how John ended up being the person, but I'm glad he raised 297 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.480 his hand, and I know he he you know, he told me that 298 00:24:53.559 --> 00:25:00.480 he's putting his own money into his race and his campaign because he you know, 299 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:06.920 he believes that, you know, he can win, and he believes 300 00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:10.359 we need somebody better in office than you know, this woman that wants to 301 00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:14.559 ban Crypto, and I totally agree with that. I do have a little 302 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:21.400 bit of history with her, you know, her her district when I worked 303 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:30.000 on the Hill, Scott Brown was the Massachusetts from from uh, Massachusetts, 304 00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:37.039 and she had challenged him when I was working on the Hill, and and 305 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:41.720 I watched that race very closely when she originally won, and Scott Brown only 306 00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:48.599 lost by a couple of percentage points, so it was a closer race than 307 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:53.680 what I think people realize. But you know, I think it just goes 308 00:25:53.759 --> 00:26:03.519 to show that the American people do not want people in office that are taking 309 00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:08.079 away their access to any type of technology, and that they don't want you 310 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:14.079 know, that they want better options than people who are who are trying to 311 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:18.519 limit their access to to options for choice for sure. Look, I know 312 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:22.680 it's going to be an uphill battle for John. Elizabeth Warren has got her 313 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:26.480 war chest. She's got a lot of notoriety, branding and so forth. 314 00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:32.920 But John at least has a lot of I think the entire asset class of 315 00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:38.200 crypto behind in the industry and crypto holders, and maybe the macro factors of 316 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:42.279 what's happening with the Biding administration in the border and all the other problems we're 317 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:48.240 dealing with. Uh, maybe John has a chance here and it would be 318 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:52.440 amazing if he's able to unseat her. Yeah, yeah, it would. 319 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:56.440 It would be an incredible victory for you know, anyone in the crypto space, 320 00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:03.079 but also just people who are proponents of freedom for sure. The other 321 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:08.799 thing that we saw pop up recently, the EIA bringing up energy fut again. 322 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:11.839 I feel like it's twenty seventeen. It's like deja vu. I don't 323 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.319 know, maybe every four years they're going to bring this up when the price 324 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.839 is going up. We saw the Texas Blockchain Council launch a lawsuit they won 325 00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:22.559 that. We'll love to get your thoughts on this is this another Elizabeth Warren 326 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:27.400 agenda to try to you know, stop bitcoin mining and things like that. 327 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:36.680 It was, it absolutely was. I shared a clip on my Twitter account 328 00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:41.200 just a couple of days. It was a post that Brian Morgenstern had shared 329 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.519 and it was in exchange with Elizabeth Warren and the EIA, that's the Energy 330 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:51.799 Information Administration, and it's Elizabeth Warren. Really, I mean she's pressuring the 331 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:56.440 EIA, you know, in a congressional hearing, saying, you know, 332 00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:00.599 you need to issue this mandatory survey. She says, tech talk off times 333 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:03.240 clicking like we we you know, we need to get this information so we 334 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.319 can you know, address you know, our concerns with cryptocurrency mining. So 335 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.720 this absolutely, I mean, from you know, my opinion, was a 336 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:21.079 politically motivated effort. What this was is you know, an emergency mandated survey 337 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:27.160 on eighty two bitcoint and cryptocurrency mining companies. Uh, and it was it 338 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:32.640 was a mandate, so if you don't respond, there would be charges of 339 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:37.200 thousands of dollars a day if you don't respond to the survey, and it 340 00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:44.799 required them to fill out some extremely sensitive information. The kind of interesting thing 341 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.079 here is that you know, mining is you know, uh, happening on 342 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:53.119 a blockchain. You have more information about cryptocurrency mining than any other type of 343 00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:59.200 minding you could think of. Uh, there's a lot of data that has 344 00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:03.759 publicly to anybody, So why do they need, you know, this type 345 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:08.279 of information from the from the industry. We're not against data collection, we're 346 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:15.680 not about sharing information, but we are we are absolutely against the government abusing 347 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:22.279 its powers. The way this emergency order was issued did not follow the appropriate 348 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:29.759 process. So our you know, the teams of lawyers that we worked with, 349 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:34.160 they found at least six mistakes that the EIA made. You have to 350 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:38.319 check a bunch of boxes in order to issue a mandated emergency survey. You 351 00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.480 know, you have to prove there's an actual emergency. They said it was 352 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:45.480 cold in Texas and that was the emergency despite you know, they're not really 353 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:51.519 being any issues with the grid. And then there's other you know, procedural 354 00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:53.440 things that have to be done, and we found there was at least six 355 00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:57.720 things that they just criteria they didn't meet, So that's why there was a 356 00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:03.400 lawsuit. So the lawsuit was filed by the Texas Blockchain Council and Riot. 357 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:10.319 They were co plaintiffs. We later joined as a plaintiff as well, and 358 00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:18.839 the EIA settled with us and we were initially given a temporary restraining order, 359 00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.640 So that happened on Friday, two fridays ago. That day the survey was 360 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:27.599 due, so that temporary restraining order was issued, so all the mining companies 361 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:32.599 were told, you don't have to file today, and then that was made 362 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:37.839 permanent. Last Friday, we reached a settlement with the EIA. They agreed 363 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:42.319 to cancel the survey and the survey could come back in the form of a 364 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:49.519 notice of comment and wool making process so they could do lawful data collection. 365 00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:56.240 So this is not totally over, but this was another example of a political 366 00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:02.440 attack on the cryptocurrency industry, the government, you know, abusing its powers, 367 00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:07.000 and as Americans, you know, as individuals, as users, as 368 00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:14.079 consumers and companies. It is our job as Americans to protect our rights because 369 00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:15.680 nobody else is going to do that for us. That is our duty as 370 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:21.039 Americans. So when there's government overreach, when the government is not following the 371 00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:25.960 laws that pertain to it, when you have governments that are abusing its powers 372 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:33.480 or violating the rights of Americans and Americans businesses, we must push back. 373 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.799 That's when the courts get involved. And the courts have been you know such 374 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:42.599 you know, thank god they're there because this was one example where the court 375 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.640 stepped in and said, hey, you did not you know, you didn't 376 00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:51.519 follow the process. You can't do this. So it's our job, it 377 00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:56.119 is our duty as Americans to push back when our rights are being violated. 378 00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:01.000 And you know, we did that, and we're glad that justice was served 379 00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:06.640 and rule blah was restored. Absolutely. I was about to say the same 380 00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:08.680 thing you were saying, that thank goodness for the judicial branch, right, 381 00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:15.119 and that we have the three branches of government. Uh, you know, 382 00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:16.839 going back to school, I never really cared about it, like, oh, 383 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:20.680 yeah, we have three branches of government. But now care understand how 384 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.559 you see why why why? Yeah? Yeah, for sure, and uh, 385 00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:30.000 kind of a question for it. This is maybe a bit philosophical, 386 00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:37.599 but why do you think we're seeing all of these issues with Elizabeth Warren and 387 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.720 the SEC and and the things they're doing breaking the law. Is it that 388 00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:45.319 they're desperate and they're trying to move fast and you're dropping the ball in certain 389 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:50.240 spots, or they're just trying to see if they can push things as far 390 00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:53.319 as they can, even though they again hit in court and for example, 391 00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:58.720 in the debt box situation, right SEC the judge threatening to sanction the SEC 392 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:04.200 lawyers they lied, And then with the EIA unlawful, sa B unlawful. 393 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:09.640 What do you think is happening there? It's hard to know, you know, 394 00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:15.599 it's hard to and there's just so many layers. You know, who 395 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:21.759 ultimately was calling the shots at these agencies, you know who was who actually 396 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.440 knew what was happening. You know, we didn't just say, hey, 397 00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:30.000 let's sue the IA and launch a lawsuit the next day. I mean, 398 00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:32.960 we reached out to the Department of Energy and the AA. We had several 399 00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.720 meetings with them ahead of time, just to say can we work this out? 400 00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:39.640 Like, do you guys understand that you didn't follow the process, like 401 00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:44.440 or can we negotiate this? Like are there any other options? We're not 402 00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:47.319 happy. We will sue if we have to, but like, you know, 403 00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:52.960 let's have a conversation before we start getting involved in litigation. And it 404 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:57.000 was pretty amazing that despite the fact that we had multiple meetings, you know, 405 00:33:57.039 --> 00:33:59.640 half the time you get in the room and that the people you're talking 406 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:01.759 to agencies have absolutely no idea who you are, what you're talking about. 407 00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:06.319 They just got kind of shoved into a meeting and they didn't have the background, 408 00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:10.440 so it's hard to know what exactly is going on. You know, 409 00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:15.320 governments are not the most efficient. You know, they're not known for being 410 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:21.679 efficient, so you know, there's a lot of layers of bureaucracy. But 411 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:24.199 it's you know, that's why I'm stressing. You know, it's it's our 412 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:34.679 job to you know, protect our rights because they are being attacked and we 413 00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:37.719 don't. You know, if we don't do that, then we have we 414 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:43.079 have everything to lose. But my best guess it's it's it's political. It's 415 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:49.800 driven by politically motivated factors, and that's not how it's supposed to be. 416 00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:54.679 Wow, you're absolutely right that we got to fight to maintain these rights because 417 00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:58.480 yeah, I mean I just look at these things and I'm like, what 418 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:02.199 the hell is going on? Like, even if you're trying to stop something, 419 00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:07.360 you know at least abide by the law man, Like, you know, 420 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.400 that's the most like ironic thing. And it's crazy how many times you 421 00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:15.719 know, I've seen this now where the regulators want to put rules on us, 422 00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.639 new rules and regulations on us on industry, but they're not willing to 423 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:27.360 follow the rules that apply to them. It's like, how hypocritical can you 424 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:32.320 possibly be? Right? Unbelievable. Well that with that said, we've got 425 00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:37.000 a couple of bills in the House to in the Senate. Patrick McHenry is 426 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:39.440 trying to push things through. We saw Janet yelling about a month ago, 427 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:44.599 made the statement in front of the House as well as saying we need to 428 00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:49.079 pass stable coin and cryptoregulations. I think Jerome Palace testifying today and tomorrow he 429 00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:52.679 might talk about stable coins. What is what do you is your outlook? 430 00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:57.480 Do you think we get stable coin regulation at least this year? Or the 431 00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:05.440 election is just too messy right now. So my prediction or my guess before 432 00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:09.239 Janet Yellen's testimony on stable coin bill becoming law was like fifty to fifty. 433 00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:15.840 It's a coin toss. It's you know, it seems that a deal has 434 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:19.840 been made between Democrats and Republicans on the bill. That's the hardest thing. 435 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.800 So if you can get that, you likely can move it through the legislative 436 00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:30.119 process. But what's complicated for stable coin bill is that stable coins is not 437 00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:32.679 the priority of Congress today. I mean, if you just spend five minutes 438 00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:37.440 looking at the mainstream media, we've got a border crisis, We're involved in 439 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:40.360 multiple wars. Right, there's like just big the government is not properly funded. 440 00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:45.639 They're finding about much bigger things, and that's taking time on the legislative 441 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:49.800 calendar. So it's stable coin's got to be a high enough priority that they 442 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.800 can fit it into the calendar to get it done. Fifty to fifty shot. 443 00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:57.679 But after Secretary of Yellen testified just a couple of weeks ago, she 444 00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:02.440 called to get a stablecoin build done, which that to me, I would 445 00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:07.840 say, that's going to help increase that prioritization of a stable coin bill. 446 00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:13.199 So I'm now like a seventy five percent chance of getting it done. There's 447 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:16.159 no there's no for sure that's going to happen. There's just so many factors 448 00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:21.760 that go into what gets on the legislative calendar every day they're in session. 449 00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:25.400 But it is looking pretty optimistic. And again, the hardest thing is just 450 00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:32.000 to get you know, the politics all aligned House and Senate Democrats, Republicans, 451 00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:38.559 and the White House or the administration, and that stuff appears to be 452 00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:44.480 in line. So can it move? We will know soon. Final question 453 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:49.119 here for you. Yesterday there's news that the SEC blocked or delayed I should 454 00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:53.400 say, the blackrock Ethereum s BOTYTF. The next deadline is May twenty third. 455 00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:59.440 What do you think we see to eat ETF this year? Well, 456 00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:04.159 we would love to see one. We you know, we it took ten 457 00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:07.360 years to get a bitcoin ETF. I mean, and and just to answer 458 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.920 the question very you know, directly, it's hard to know. I mean, 459 00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.880 I don't think anyone really knows, I mean, nobody really knew when 460 00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:21.119 the spot bitcoin ETFs we're going to get approved except Gary Gensler himself. I 461 00:38:21.159 --> 00:38:25.280 really really hope it doesn't get drawn out in the same way that spot bitcoin 462 00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:35.480 ETFs did. But we believe that paved the way for additional cryptocurrency spot ETFs, 463 00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:39.880 but the politics are not on our side for this one, and Chairman 464 00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:45.480 Genzler went down kicking and screaming at the approval of spot bitcoin etf. So 465 00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:50.280 if history is a guide, you know there there there might be more more 466 00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:53.559 of a battle to get it done as opposed to just the normal pgatory process 467 00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:58.360 that ETFs go through. Well, we're going to drag them to court again, 468 00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:00.360 right and uh, the way to want to go, we'll give them 469 00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:07.079 it doesn't take that. Yeah, Perrian, all is a pleasure. I'm 470 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:08.920 really appreciative of what you and the folks at a chamber are doing. How 471 00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:15.079 can folks support the Chamber of Digital Commerce. Yeah, well thanks for asking. 472 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:19.400 We're hosting a conference on May fifteenth, the DC Blockchain Summit. We'd 473 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.800 love to invite everybody to join us. You can go to our website at 474 00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:30.199 Digital Chamber dot org or DC Blotchingsummit dot com and then a more tangible way 475 00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:35.239 on how you can support the important education and the advocacy work that we do 476 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:37.960 every single day. But again, we need the whole community to help us 477 00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:43.239 to really take the community to the next level of adoption. We're hosting Blockchain 478 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:47.119 Education Day the day after on May sixteenth, and so if you sign up 479 00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:52.719 for Blockchain Education Day, we will take you to Capitol Hill to go meet 480 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:57.719 with your elected officials so you can tell them directly about why this technology is 481 00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:04.320 important to you and to support spport policies that help grow and foster our community 482 00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:07.559 here in the United States. So come to the DC Bloxching Summit participate in 483 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:14.199 Boxing Education Day. That's May fifteenth and May sixteen. Awesome, Prian, 484 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:16.360 thank you so much for joining me. Thanks Tony, good to be here.