What Up? What Up? Everybody? Welcome to another episode. Let's Ask
Paul the podcast where I, Paul Abernathy, answer all of your pressing electrical
code related questions submitted through our online portal. Where is that? That's over
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on, and try to ask your question very detailed. And remember I cannot
give you design advice, but I can answer your code related question and give
you code references and then you do the hard leg work and seeing how that
will apply to your application. But I will answer the code based on what
is written in the NEC and my interpretation of that. And I should mention
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into our courses to learn the National Logical Code at a little bit better level
than you may be at today. Okay, So on this episode, uh,
we're going to answer a couple of questions and kind of get caught up
here. I've you know, I've got literally at this point, I've knocked
out quite a few, uh and some of my answer directly via email and
some make it to our podcast. So here are two or two or three
that have made it to our actual podcast. So I'm going to kind of
work on these and try to answer these questions and help clarify some things.
Okay, the question says, hello again, sir, I have another one
for you. Is a small breaker box subject to article three twelve and four
oh eight only in terms of distribution points. I don't mean a twenty slash
forty square d homeline panel. I'm talking about a cabinet enclosure. And notice
the language you chose here, cabinet enclosure that contains one service disconnect and one
distribution breaker. Let's say, so, can you help me understand why a
small breaker enclosure is or is not also a subject to article three fourteen because
I'm thinking the breaker is a device. Okay, So I think one of
the most important things about this is to understand what is a cabinet. So
a cabinet is as defined in the National Electrical Code. It's an enclosure that
is designed for either surface amount or flesh mount and is provided with a mat,
frame or s good state in the order it's frame, matt or trim
in which a swinging door or doors are or can be hung. Okay,
So a cutout box, for example, is more like a disconnect. It's
got a swinging door on it. A cutout box is typically surface mounted.
You've got a panel board, which is guts that go inside of a cabinet
or it could go inside of a cutout box, and it is typically the
cabinet would be either surface or flush mounted with the trim on it, with
a swinging door. That's how you access these devices and things like that,
okay. And if it's not a swinging door, it still has a door,
okay. So I think a cabinet is an enclosure. Now when it
comes to what you describe, whether it has one main breaker in it or
it has you know, ten breaker or whatever it may have, that is
still considered a cabinet. Right now, it is also an enclosure. But
when it comes to applying the rules for that, then Article three twelve is
titled Cabinets, cut out boxes and meter socket enclosures, whereas three fourteen says
outlet device pull and junction boxes. Okay, So outlet boxes, device boxes,
pull boxes, junction boxes, conduit bodies, fittings and handhold enclosures.
Okay. So the way you describe it, it's simply by the nature of
the article itself. Now, if you go read the scope of three twelve,
the scope says, this article covers the installation and construction specifications of cabinets,
cut out boxes, and meter socket enclosures. Okay, So it specifically
talks about that, And I think It's also extremely important to remember that when
you go look at four zero eight that every reference that it makes, and
we'll just say jump to part three, which is handleboards, every reference that
it makes, for example, for wire bending space and the enclosures or whatever,
it always references back to three twelve. It never references back to three
fourteen. I don't see any example in here at all with any reference back
to three fourteen. So three fourteen is specific to boxes. Now we're not
saying that an enclosure can't be a box. I think maybe if you hit
a cabinet you removed all the guts out of it. Let's say you did
a service change and you're moving it, and now you're using the cabinet before,
which is an enclosure, and now you've removed everything and it's just being
used as a junction box or splice box and things like that. Then it's
still an enclosure, and you still would have you'd have to meet the rules
in three fourteen for it, because it's you know, maybe you're putting a
flat cover on it now and it doesn't have a swinging door, and now
you're treating it as an enclosure, but it's also a junction box. It's
also splice box and things like that. So I think that getting the confusion
between three fourteen and three twelve. Think of three twelve again is more the
cabinets, cut out boxes. These are or other you know, identified enclosures
that you could put a panel board in. Okay, that that is specifically
something that three twelve is going to cover for that part of it. Of
course, you have four oh eight that's going to cover the panel board,
switchboard, switchgear and all that kind of stuff that could be mounted in these
cabinets which are enclosures. Again, if you look at the definition of a
cabinet, so I think it's it's it ends up being how you use the
product, Okay, And that's the kind of the best way I can answer
that that question. But again, nowhere in four zero eight do you see
any reference back to three fourteen. You see plenty of references back to three
twelve. So again that kind of tells you and the way you describe your
question, you have overcurrent protective devices in there, so that means you do
have a panel board that's where the breakers mount to and things like that.
So again that's hopefully that answers that question on that one. At least,
that's the best I've got for you on now. Okay, so what else
have we got here? We have another question we'll answer. Let's see here.
Hello, sir, I did your fast tracks last year and it helped
me a ton. I got my Oregon Supervisor's license with your help, so
thank you. Well, congratulations says here in the Pacific Northwest, we have
some wet weather a lot of the year. Some outdoor traffic and lighting installations
are required by the authority having jurisdiction to be with a certain wired type.
In most cases, single conductors that'd be single insulating doctors must be run with
XAHHW seven strands to reduce corrosion. Okay, it says it makes a big
difference as the finer strand starts to corrode in less than a year in some
cases. Can you discuss wire stranding? What's the main classes are and how
the stranding is affected by corrosion? Thanks again, God bless. Okay,
thanks for the question. So I guess we'll talk about the wire type insulation
type. So XAJHW. The X stands for cross link polyethylene. Okay,
that thus the X that's what it means. And it's very robust in a
sense to moisture even that has the W in there, So it's obviously what
location rate it has the two hs, so it's ninety degree and they're dry,
but it's only seventy five in a wet unless you have a dash too
on the end of that. So if it's xahw dash too, then it
would be ninety wet or dry when it comes to doing adjustment and corrective stuff,
but again you're always limited to determinations in one ten dot fourteen C anyway,
so we tend to think about sixty degree or seventy five degree rated terminals
anyway, that's probably more than you want it for that. Now, seven
stranding, depending on the sizing, seven strands are typically going to be what's
called a class B type of stranding, and class B stranding is it is
an ASTM class. Now, this is if we're talking about copper and you
didn't state either or copper is very resistant okay to corrosive conditions. So again
that's one of those things where we end up having to look at it and
say, well, you know, we have to be always careful what we're
you know, what's being talked about because again it is very resistive to crosier
conditions. But typically you're going to see an option for seven strands up to
about two gauge, and when you get over to gauge you start to see
from one gauge up to about four. Ought you tend to see what's called
a nineteen strand. Now that can either be nineteen strands of still ASTMB eight
or it could be a stranding configuration that we call ASTMB seven eighty seven.
Now, the difference in those seven strands is they're all identical sized, Okay,
when you get to the nineteen strand, and even if it's B seven
eighty seven, which is just another derivative of an a STM standard for stranding,
and it's incidentally that's for insulating conductors only, so you can only use
seven eighty seven for insulating conductors, not for bear conductors. So in this
case, the seven conductors in the center are all the same size, but
then the next layer or subsequent layer of the remaining conductors are alternating size small
one, big one, small one, big one, small one, big
one, small one, big one. So a total of nineteen strands.
So that's an ASTMB seven eighty seven perfectly fine. It kind of acts like
a compressed copper, by the way, but it's just an alternating type of
strand. You you can get seven strand where they're all the same size,
and it's a little harder to deal with. It's a little stiffer, but
that, again is an ASTM B eight type of stranding is available. And
then as you start getting into two fifty kcmil and larger. In the typical
class B stranding, which is general building wire and things like that, it
tends to jump to thirty seven strands until you get up to six hundred kcmil.
Then it can jump up to sixty one strands, and then it stays
that way until it gets over a thousand kcmil. Again, manufacturers have some
tolerances of a stranding count that they can follow. It's not written in stone.
It could be one more, one less. Again, we're shooting for
the circular mills what we're trying to get to in the application. Now,
when it comes to aluminum, you have different standards that we use, which
is called like single input where it's nineteen strands, but it is basically trapezoid
design and it's called compact aluminum, which kind of acts like a solid conductor,
but it is stranded. And then you've got concentric unila, which is
again we have a STMB eight hundred eight oh one B eight thirty six.
It's a different straining as well for whether or not you're dealing with aluminum conductors.
And again it's just you know, you don't have to overthink this because
the manufacturers have to have all these products tested before they can put them into
market. Now, ASTM is a voluntary standard, it's not mandatory anywhere,
but all of the manufacturers follow it. And so if you're getting something and
it is ASTM B three, that's typically your solid conductors. If you get
an a STM B eight, that's going to be your stranded seven strand nineteen,
strand thirty one, strand sixty one. You know that type of thing.
And then of course you get into other stranding. So there's a class
A double A, there's B, there's C, there's D, there's E,
there's F. I mean get into high strands like K and things like
that, which have a lot of smaller strands for flexibility, right, fine
flexible type of thing, and so a lot of people want that when they're
doing PV applications they want that fine flexible for bending, and obviously battery applications
that want that more finely stranded for flexibility type of thing. But for building
wiring. Typically what we're looking at is Class B applications. Okay, that's
that's the that's the workhourse of it. And just remember we have again this
stranding configuration where ASTMB eight and then of course we have other allowances like ASTMB
seven eighty seven, and that is a nineteen strand. Now, by the
way, that's nineteen strands. Whether it's one gauge or four ought, it's
still nineteen strand. It's just the size changes on the stranding. Okay,
to still come up with the circular mill, because you know what a one
odd is one hundred and five thousand, six hundred circular mill. It's still
got to be that whether it was a seven strand or a nineteen strand,
you get me. So it's traditionally when you get to sizes one through four
odd, it tempically typically jumps up to a nineteen strand. When you're below
that, it's typically seven strand. Now that does not mean that you can't
have an ASTMB seven eighty seven in smaller conductor sizes, absolutely you can.
I mean all manufacturers make that in ten gauge, twelve gauge, eight gauge.
I mean it's available. The only difference between AST eight and ASTMB seven
eighty seven is the fact that B eight all the strands are the same size
seven eighty seven, The center core are the same, The seven and the
center are the same, but then the ones that go out around it are
alternating size. Okay, so you have two different sizes and they alternate,
a small one and a large one alternates. It's interesting to tell you that
when it comes to grounding and bonding purposes, you can't use ASTMB seven eighty
seven with it being bear because that's a product that can only be sold as
an insulated conductor. And then you could use green or whatever you're black,
with green tape on it whatever for bonding jumpers, you'd be all right,
but you can't use it as a bear for grounding and bonding. You need
something in B seven eighty excuse me, you need something in ASDMB eight for
that, okay, or B three solid for certain applications like for around a
raise or whatnot. You have those options, So it's important to understand the
stranding and as far as corrosion it's concerned. You know, we put copper
in the ground for grounding, electrode conductors, ground rings. We do a
lot of things with copper in contact with the earth, and it doesn't have
that much of a problem. So if you're getting a lot of corrosion on
your conductors copper conductors, again it's probably because of moisture getting in the air
or you know, having some potential issue with galvanic action that's going on that
you need to look at in your installation. But again that's about the best
that I can talk about when it comes to corrosion. It's it doesn't matter
if it's your area is a little more wet than other areas, because these
products are installed in all different types of applications all over the country where you
have you know, rain and direct burial applications and raceways that you know are
going to be flooded and all those type of things. So it's probably more
about your termination, how you're terminating it and things like that, and whether
or not you're using the proper boxes. If you're at a wet location,
are you using proper wire nuts, for example, or devices that are rated
for wet location versus regular wire nuts that are not you know, those type
of things. I guess would look into it more, but I really can't
get too much into the corrosion aspect of it, because corrosion is just a
nature of the game. But the better you seal those connections and you know
you're not gonna have to worry too much about corrosion with the conductor inside of
the insulated material, that type of thing. Okay, it's part of the
best I can. I can, you know, describe that for you.
But if you are seeing that the finer strands are causing you problems, then
again you're doing the right thing. Either go with solid or go with a
seven strand. I be honest with you. Even the ASTMB seven eighty seven
nineteen strand, I don't consider those fine strands in nineteen count so I mean,
I'm not seeing issues with that in the wiring cable business or industry.
So again, they are still another alternative I would not call. They're certainly
not classified as fine strand. Okay, They're not like a K strand or
an eye strand and things like that with high strand count. It's certainly not,
so you'd have to elaborate on more issues of what you're running into.
But yeah, corroding less than a year is an issue. Something else must
be going on that I encourage you to look at that from a different perspective
type of thing. All right, folks, that's going to be it for
this one. These two hopefully answered these two questions to the best that I
can answer them. Again, I'm sure others can answer them much better than
me, but that's the best I can answer it. I could have gone
more detail into the different conductors and stranding and insulation types and whatnot, but
I want to keep the episode not too long. You happen to be using
x ahhw dash two. I'm sure it's xahhw dash two, but I'll remind
you that thhn thhw N dash too, which is dual rated, is also
okay in a raceway in wet location as well. The copper's not going to
be any different, so the stranding will be the same whether it's th hh
n thwn dash two or x x hw dash too. It's still gonna be
the same copper, okay. And when it comes to aluminum, obviously,
you can't terminate aluminum within eighteen inches of the earth. We know that if
you're going to be in an area where it's subject to a lot of moisture.
I mean, you can use an antioxtic compound again keeps moisture out.
That's your prerogative, that's your choice. If you're having problems with terminations,
maybe that's something that you might want to add. It's not required, but
you know, hey, it does keep out moisture at the termination, and
a lot of the wet location wire nuts and have stuff in them already that's
going to keep the moisture out of that termination. So there's a reason they
do that. So again, think about that type of installation. Any precaution
that you can take that it helps the longevity of that termination. It's important,
so we encourage it for you to do that. Again, antioxidant compounds
not required unless the equipment states that it's required. But it's certainly not going
to hurt anything. If you want to use it, especially if you're experiencing
a lot of problems, then maybe you do use it because again that does
keep out the moisture. Just be careful because not all equipment works very well.
With petroleum based antioxidant compounds, so make sure you check the equipment and
everything. As far as a wire and cable manufacture. It's not going to
hurt our insulation, it's not going to hurt our product, but a lot
of the manufacturers of equipment or lugs may have a problem with it, so
just make sure you do your due diligence on that. But if you use
a splicing device that's rated for a wet location, then it might already have
something in its silacone or something in it that tries to protect that termination.
Okay, all right, that's all I got, folks. Till next time,
Stay safe, God bless and we hope to catch you on another upcoming
episode of Let's Ask Paul.