It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and carn S e O and JP
sorrows He's a lapsed fan in all my years and rest you never seen anything.
And it's the laps Fan man number one in the ring begin a Boussada
were the real king of swing with the bell goes eggs and the kick like
me throwing in the corner but gets rash like stick even Jerry King you can
take off the crowd nodding his head like a see low Brown would just getting
low down for the goat, even high up flipp you on your head,
but you know cool drive you speaking more now and Dragon spits fire if you
more shot than in Edge retire dropping more truth than the con of sniper less
you would a coconut Roddy Piper check a JP you like Jay d drop the
cupcakes and gold the brain Bob means the best podcast for the start the close
flop you are benefits a classic and pose you know in life in general,
I think keeping a promise is a good practice. And one of the things
we promised years ago when we launched the Hopper was that we were going to
try to, I don't know, make some sort of an allowance for the
fact that it gets a little out of control in terms of denominations. Yes,
and last year around Christmas time, are you talking about nations of denominations
and nations of denominations. That's exactly right. Nations of different branded currencies as
it were. Oh yes, different reserve currencies, different references currency. And
it's wherewithal. Okay, you appreciate branded currency, and it's wherewithal yes,
I do. Right now that that's established, we said, you know,
around Christmas time, what we'll do is anyone who keeped kept bidding for the
Hopper but didn't win, we're going to pick one of them at random and
give them a free Hopper show as an extension of goodwill. And while we
wanted to do it around Christmas time, due to lapsed Funk and a ton
of other things, we were up against it and it took a while for
us to come up for air, so to speak. Virgil passed away.
That put it off. But now here we are a path was the winner,
the first sort of winner. You know. We did a warrant to
Cliff a year before that when his wife reached out about how much a Hopper
show would cost, and he said, how might we just give it to
you for free? And here we are the two thousand because it was like
a couple couple hundred bucks something like that, wasn't She's like, well,
you know, why don't we tell you what I'm kind of ashamed to tell
you how much it goes for so exactly, yeah, you don't want to
know how much your your husband was willing to put down, so we're right.
To his credit, he tapped out, that's why I felt like we
should do it, because he was like, guys, can't responsibly do it
for my family. It's like, I get it, but we but but
we also have to deeply express her appreciation for those who did go that hard
and did go that that strong. Is this the only thing that makes is
worth it? I mean, good luck facing your family taking as much time
as we do to make this punch as much as it does without someone in
the universe saying it here, it's worth this much, you know. And
here we are, thanks to the hopper, thanks to PAV, thanks to
the solar system, and thanks to TLFX, and we're landing on the two
thousand and eight WWE Royal Rumble. That is the selection the Hopper does it
again us thoughts. I mean, it's not a show that I really ever
thought i'd revisit in my lifetime. I mean, you know, I think
I said, and I know, I don't know if I watched the I
was looking at the dates of everything, and I was going through old emails
from back then, and I definitely know I was not I I wasn't I
was in the country when it happened, but I wasn't deaf. I definitely
wasn't focused on the royal rumble because I was planning to leave the country on
the Monday, the day after the pay per view. But I did watch
the replay. I watched the replay in Belgium, which I don't know.
If you want to get into my story at this point, yeah, go
ahead, Oh god, Okay. So this was a year after Premonition,
and I had gone through a rough breakup and was not doing well and was
struggling to find work out in la and I just run the Honolulu Marathon and
I'm working on this well you know, you know the movie. You know
the documentary that I edited, the documentary, if you will, the documentary
that's right. And by the way, nothing more breakup to do the run
of marathon. By the way, Oh, I know, like I was
actually kind of pissed that that I'll show her right, well, yeah,
I'll show her moment. But also I was I was pissed that I was
pissed that that that Simon Pegg made a fucking movie about the exact same thing
before I could fucking do it. Come on, dude, like really so
uh uh So. Anyway, so I'm working on this, this this documentary
with my my neighbor, and all of a sudden, I get an email
from her and it says, you have to do this, and I'm like,
oh, what does she want now, because she was that kind of
a neighbor, like she was just, oh my god, Mirah, Mirah.
She was a she was a fucking trip. And so I opened the
email and it's about this woman who she was acquainted with. And this woman,
her name is Inga. She's lovely person. She she basically she had
adopted. She was in the United States, but she's a Belgian citizen and
she and her visa was up and so she had to go back to Belgium.
And when she was at Lax flying back, security said that she couldn't
take her new bunny that was established in Los Angeles as a you know,
what do you call it, like a service animal? Service animal? Yes,
it's a service animal, emotional service animal. And so they said,
nope, the bunny doesn't have the proper paperwork. Wow, and so what
about the butcher. That's exactly right, And so I said okay. And
so I'm reading this email and so she's basically offering to fly anybody, anybody
out to Belgium to bring her bunny to her. And so I'm like,
oh my god, like, okay, that's great. I love the idea,
but really like, come on, like that's I said, all right,
let me think about it. And so I'm like, I'm like running
it by friends. I'm calling my parents like you know, what do you
I don't know, what do you think? And then everyone's like you should
go do it. I'm like okay. And so now three hours have passed
and I'm thinking, and I'm what am I I'm twenty seven years old at
the time, and I'm almost I'm twenty six, and I'm like, well,
there's no way that I'm going to be doing this now because hours have
passed and somebody's surely bit on a fucking free trip to Belgium, you know.
And so I email and I said, hey, you don't know me.
I know this person who's acquainted with you that if you still need help,
I'm you know, I'll do it. Five minutes later, I get
a call with this woman crying on the phone. She's so grateful, wow
that I won't do this. Wow, Like oh, okay, so this
is going to happen. And I so yeah. So that that was like
on a Thursday, and the following Monday, I'm over the weekend. I've
had to like basically get this bunny and move it into my apartment and you
know, take care of it for the weekend, and then prep it for
flight on Monday morning. And I'm like, okay, so I do.
And I mean the whole flight was it was a crazy you know. They
they say that you shouldn't put bunny rabbits on the floor. You can't put
them in in like the the regular animal area, and you shouldn't put them
on the ground because the rumble, the rumble from the the engines can kill
them. Is that right? Oh yeah, that's what someone told me.
This rumble is going to kill us, right, damn right. And so
I was like okay, and so but I'm I'm I'm so, I'm in
my flight and I'm I'm squeezed into the far you know, I'm in the
window seat and I've got everybody around me. It's like, I'm I'm so
confined. And the the you know, the the stewardess or the sorry of
the flight attenant comes over and says, sir, you have to put that
down. That that that piece of luggage under the seat in front of you.
I'm like, I can't do that. It's like, no, sir,
you have to put this down the scene in front of me. I
said, I can't do that. Bunny will die, right, Just no,
sir, you have to. I'm like okay, And so I put
it, put it there, and then I'm like, I put it on
the floor, but I put it on, put the carrier on my toes,
on my feet and my toes so at least I'm like, okay,
at least it's not touching. I'm like doing everything I can and she uh
uh uh. And then so the we we get off the ground, you
know, we're in the air, and I'm the moment we get off the
ground. The guy in front of me pushes his seat back and it's out.
I can't wake him up. He's out, So I can't get down
and get the fucking bunny off the floor or off my toes. So I
have to fly from La to Colorado's Denver with with my feet, my heels
on the ground, feet up the whole fucking flight. Granted, it's not
a long flight, so I was kind of lucky, but still it's like
not comfortable at all, and I'm like thinking to myself, Oh my god,
this bunny's gonna die. Do I tell this woman I mean this fly
back home? Or do I lie and not tell her and get my free
trip to Belgium? Like what the fuck do I do? Wow? Fortunately,
the bunny was fine and we ended up making it all the way to
Belgium and I was there. I was there for three weeks. I was
sitting in Belgium for three weeks. This is where this. I was in
Belgium when we had that insane ben Wa dialogue over g chat. Is that
right? Yeah? I was in Belgium when that happened. And because I
remember sitting at that desk, because the woman she's lovely ingas she's a wonderful,
wonderful person, but she just fibromyalgia. So it's like and she doesn't
really she doesn't take care of her She didn't take care of herself in like
the right way. Like she would do crazy active activity and then be out
like the next day. So it's like if we did something one day,
I was basically, you know, isolated to the house for the next day.
I see, but it was, you know, it was crazy,
and I send it for three weeks and and then at one point again all
the craziness happened while you know, the Rumble was happening, and so I
didn't even I was like, oh shit, the Royal Rumble happened. And
then I don't know how, but there was like a I believe maybe it
was on the dot com or it felt like I seemed to remember it was
on YouTube for some reason, and I was able to watch the rumble match,
not the whole show, but I watched the Rumble match. Yeah,
this was before they were very intense about right copyright strikes and stuff, but
it was on It was on there, and I remember watching the whole match
and and being shocked by the scene of thing just like blown away by that.
Were you aware that he was out with an injury. I knew he
was out with an injury. I remember that because I remember you and I
laughed about the fact that this guy's fucking entire you know, muscle was ripped
off his bone. We joked about that. Really, Yeah, yeah,
totally. And yeah, So so I knew he was out, and I
thought he was going to be gone till they kept talking about who he was
going to be gone for, you know, at least six to eight months,
and and it's like, there's no way he's going to be at the
Rumble, There's no way he's going to be WrestleMania. So I go,
okay, So I'm like just going going through the motions here and then all
of a sudden, dude, damnay and there there he is, like in
his little pose and and he comes out and takes off his shirt the way
he takes off his shirt, and and uh and he's there. Yeah,
I remember. It was It was crazy because I'd watched these things, you
know, on days that that she was out and basically sleeping all day,
and so I'd take the opportunity just to do shit on the Internet and whatever.
Amazing. Yeah, I remember that. This is how I was in
Belgium. Still when when the Patriots lost to the Giants, well this was
that. There's references to that game being upcoming on the pay per view are,
yes, there are, and I I was the undefeated season that wasn't
uh huh. I was up till oh man, it was, it was,
but I couldn't watch the game live. We weren't at that level yet
in terms of Internet viewing, and so I was basically just on Google and
I had the Super Bowl. You know they have like the the progress of
the game, yes, and so refresh, refresh, refresh, refresh.
I was up until well, I mean whatever it was. I must have
been up till like five in the morning. Complete wreck, yeah, complete
wreck. And then when they lost, I'm just like I couldn't. I
was like, okay, you know what, I was like, I took
me so long to go to sleep, and I was just miserable, and
I said, okay, just at least at least, you know what,
you're in Europe. You're in Europe, so you know what, You're not
going to have to endure any of this shit because nobody cares right, nobody
cares. And not only that, you're in Belgium. Nobody fucking cares in
Belgium. We go out. The next day, I see a newspaper fucking
eighteen and one. I was like, are you fucking it's? Go get
the fucking matter with you. Go get some fries. I know. Oh
I did, Oh, believe me, I did. I had my fill
of waffles and fries they have. Have you been to Belgium, no,
sir ah, So they have. They actually have French fries. It's crazy,
but I guess the French fry was made in Belgium. Was a venting
in Belgium, which is hilarious. And I I they have these stands out
there just for French fries and they have so many fucking sauces, so many
different kinds of sauces. I fucking loved it. I had a great time.
Belgium is a wonderful, underrated country. It's a beautiful, beautiful place.
And uh yeah, tons of waffles they actually had. So they have
vending machines like anyone else has a veting machine, but they have waffles in
the veting machines like bagged waffles or in the vending machines. It's like,
okay, all right, I'll take it, heat it up, butter done?
Wow? Had had? We went to the place too where the location
of where they had the World's Fair whenever that whenever, And in there there's
a snack a snack bar at the kind of the I mean, it's certainly
better well kept than the ones in Queens, which is a shame. I
love the ones in Queens, but it's very well captain. It's a big
tourist attraction in Belgium, and so I would go there and they have a
snack bar and it was like you can either get you know, waffle or
ice cream. And I'm like, I don't know. I want a waffle
like I had waffles almost every day I was there. But I also want
ice cream like they had. I forget what it was. It was some
kind of very unique flavored ice cream. And my friend was like Inga was
like, I don't you get both? Have the ice cream on the waffle.
And I was like, are you cream? Are you crazy? What
the fuck I can do that? That's that's the title of my book,
Get both, Yes, stopping a bitch, Get both, Ring a bitch
to get both and I did, and it was one of the greatest desserts
I've ever had. Wow, look at that. It's like an ice cream
melting on a freshly made crispy waffle. Fuck it, fuck it. Well,
there's a unique way to take in the two thousand and eight Royal Rumble.
It totally was. It totally was. I can picture being in that
place. I was just watching it on pay per view with a pizza.
I mean, yeah, I feel not up to snuff at this point.
Well, at least you had to watch it in grainy YouTube video. And
I got to watch the first ww pay per view ever in high definition HD,
and it was. It was the beginning of an earra. We'll talk
to pav later about it. But just the thought, the notion boss that
for some wrestling fans, their childhood memories of wrestling, their core memories,
are in HD. That's unbelievable to me. And it's not like these are
ten year old kids now. These are you know, going on thirty year
olds now that had this experience. These are their glory years. Their glory
years were rectangular imagery in HD clarity. And you want to think about TLFX
man, people spent their entire thirties listening to that cast. They can't think
about that reality, think about that responsibility, right. I spent most of
my thirties recording that cast. Absolutely, yeah, right, spend you spent
it listening? Think how long we spent doing it? Because it's recording plus
preparation. But I got gray hairs than I should have because of that.
It continues to perpetuate itself because it's it's something special and the verdict is in.
And before we jump into the two thousand and eight Royal Rumble, another
proof point that is absolutely taking off like we couldn't have expected is TLF hitting
the City of Brotherly Love April seventh, noon Punchline, Philly. TLF takes
the stage for the only premium live event you need as opposed to want WrestleMania
Weekend, and some of our friends from the stand up comedy world, Lameri
Lee and so many others ygoots. It's going to be a terrific event.
And if I'm to gauge by how many people I'm hearing or buying tickets and
what the venue is saying, and this is going to be a fucking oh
bakanal. This is going to be a blowout in Philadelphia. I am so
excited and horrified like I was last year. Well, you can't have one
without the other, exactly, No, no, no, they go hand
in hand and it's going to be it's going to be equally terrifying and amazing
at the same time. Can't wait to see so many of these amazing Solar
System members and beyond that are coming out to see us do the only wrestlming
you preview and review show that you're going to need. And of course TLF
delivering the truth of professional wrestling today, right, TLF looking you in the
eye and saying, we know how pathetic it is that you can't think of
much else besides pro wrestling most of your spare time. Let us figure out
why that's the case. We know why you're We know why your days are
depressing. We know why you you you you you take a long time to
get out the door in the morning. All right, we get it.
We know what you're looking at on your phone when you should be paying attention
to other things. Right, We certainly know what you're listening to when you
should be listening to other things. That's right, And let us leave punchline
Philly and the Bozo's Biceps and Bullshit Brunch can the video promo that I made.
I'm actually so surprised. The two things that I'm surprised about about that.
Number one the fact that I guess really it. There were no issues
on any of the platforms that I've that we posted it to regarding the the
cow feces, the secretion of actual manure. And the other thing is nobody
comments on it. Nobody actually has said, oh my god, that's so
fucking gross, Like nobody said that. I think that's hilarious. I'm not
sure people know what it is they're looking at. Maybe they don't, but
like, you know, if you get it, it's like, you know,
we have the Bozo's, the guy flying off the top rope, we
have biceps close with the biceps, and we have bullshit and that's literal,
literal cowshit coming out of the look if we're going to bring back the Biceps
Weekend Brunch. Yes, I mean, I have it on good authority that
Lex Luger may attack us with a loaded forearm. I have I have heard
about that. I mean I don't have I'm not too worried about avoiding his
blow considering can't get out of his wheelchair. But it's gonna be like a
slow, you know, wheelchair maneuver. But you know, you never know,
I might just sell it for him, just for the sake of it.
Let us leave Punchline Philly on April seventh with some modicum of self respect,
or at least having come to terms with what it all means, and
what it means that we find ourselves, you know, irreparably connected to a
business that puts us in the position that Vince's behavior put us in right,
and what do we do about it? We go to WrestleMania. That's what
we do about it, and we'll explain why that is the case. Yes,
as well on April seventh, only only for live attendees. I think
we're really going to stretch that this time because some of the things that we
plan on addressing, some of the things that we plan on delivering the truth
about, getting to the heart of the matter, saying the kind of things
that make you look in the mirror ten minutes longer in the morning. I'm
not sure that should be recorded for posterity. Okay, folks, and you
should know by now, But if you don't and it's a crowded field,
so your chances are getting lesser by the day in the week. If you
buy your ticket ahead of time and send proof of purchase to the Lapsed Fan
at gmail dot com, you will be entered into a raffle to win an
authentic Terry Funk branding iron, and unbelie listen to the Lapsed Funk knows that
as part of that journey, we obtained a branding iron and a series of
other materials from Terry Funk's very own a state sale and we feel it appropriate
being just miles from the UCW arena where you lit the thing on fire and
kind of lit the promotion on fire as well, that we offer that as
a special gift for your attendance. But again, you cannot qualify for that
raffle unless you send us in advance of the show your proof of purchase to
the Lapsed Fan at gmail dot com. So we're really excited. I do
wish we could have branded somebody. Well, yeah, I mean that's kind
of it's kind of tough considering the valves skewering the skin. I mean,
if someone volunteers, it's not murder y, well, hopefully not I guess
it depends on how they react to it. But but yeah, this is
this is let me tell you this has taken off. The venue is very
happy from what we here. It's for a Sunday afternoon. Like sure,
we're coming hard, We're coming strong. They're coming from all over, and
we need to give copious thanks and shout outs to all the different folks who
have put their hand up to do interviews and to you know, help us
get the word out and spread the word. You'll be hearing about those in
the days and weeks to come. But let it be known that tf will
be in the ground in Philadelphia, and it's going to be very hard to
pretend you didn't notice. Oh yes, by the time all is said and
done, so we can't hit that hard enough. Punchline Philly. Just go
put Punchline Philly into Google, go to their schedule of events, scroll on
down April seventh, and there you will see, in all of its glory,
the lapsed fan logo against a backdrop of an apocalyptic burning Philadelphia. Boss.
Yes, absolutely, is that not how it should be. That's what
it's going to be. Like what a TLFX celebration. That's the pain we
bring. That's the reality that Philadelphia will be under when TLF gets hard in
the city of probably Love. It's exactly correct. And the mailbox is open,
by the way for TLFX recollections, which you've been hearing weekly since the
dawn of twenty twenty four. Here as we celebrate ten years of TLF love
to have your audio recollections on what TLF has meant to you, So send
your pieces of audio to the Lapsed Fan at gmail dot com and we'll put
the best ones up for all to hear in our main feed. That's rocking
and rolling. We're also proud to continue offering strong, full throated thumbs up
and support to our friends at Titan Nutrition who are still very much in our
corner as we continue to thoroughly pillage the wrestling podcast space. Titan Nutrition,
of course, as you know, offers a full line of expertly formulated nutritional
products to help you achieve your health and fitness goals. And you know,
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those excess calories and also give you the mental boost you need to move your
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go. Titan Nutrition dot Net Ladies and gentlemen. No better example of lap
serendipity than a company called Titan Nutrition falling out of the sky and reaching out
looking for an alliance Tighten Nutrition dot net And if you use the promo code
Lapsed at checkout, you can receive ten percent off your purchase and free shipping.
Again, Yes, tight Nutrition dot Net with discount code lapse. So
if you want to get fucking ripped and in shape, buller, do it
with a TLF approved product, right break absolutely, come on? Why would
you not? Right? You? Should you need to, We're all there,
and similar to everything else, we'd love to see proof of purchase at
lapsed fan at gmail dot com the lapsed fan at gmail dot com as well
for Titan purchasers, we'd love to give you shadowed as well for for doing
the right thing, getting yourself into shape. But of course there's no greater
vessel to show support to the podcast than the engine that has kept this thing
running for ten years. The upside surprise in those early years that we cannot
believe. You know, we knew we were broadcasting to people who needed it,
we knew we were delivering a podcast that was resonating always. Not until
patreon dot com slashed a lapsed fan went up live collecting those fucking fees,
ah, did we realize that this is actually that this is the kind of
proof of concept that the greatest hater in the world has to shut the fuck
up about when they notice that the people are willing to put this much toward
it to keep us going and willing to give nothing to their bitch asses.
And so that's evident. April seventh, that's evident. Patreon dot com slashed
the lapsed fan, and that's evident Boston, the enthusiastic response to the latest
journey under the cinemat Oh yes, or the executive producer tire and above we
continue, don't we down the James Bond chronology? Yes we do, Yes,
we do. And let me tell you, I don't think there's there's
a day that goes by where we're not trying to to to to listen.
I'm always trying to get all of them on there always, and there's probably
going to be a you know, a substitute journey at some point to go
into the missing Bonds. But even even now, I we but but you
know what, uh and and I'm so desperate to get them all in that
that I have to you know, I even ask Jack I you know,
because there was a we were sent a video about to disqualify all James Bonds
just from the on the sheer fact that that there was an entrance that was
inspired by James Bond for for mister Czarro in w Right, they showed the
yeah, like they have the same kind of in the video. It's like
the the little the balls that go across and then he came out like into
a spotlight and you know, move around. But but you know, I
said, I don't know, Like there's a part of me that wants to
just accept this, and but I I I feel the need to be true.
But I was like, you know what, maybe it does, Maybe
does qualify. So I sent him to Jack and he's like, no,
no, this doesn't work. This doesn't work. I think nothing else.
We should at first make sure that we address because there's scopious amounts of this
the Bond films with wrestlers in them, because yeah, or or or or
at least the Bond films that inspired something, you know, that does that
qualifies if there if there's a wrestling villain out there that is very much inspired
by a a James Bond character of any sort, you know that that definitely
qualifies it. That qualifies that Bond film, But not the entire franchise,
the entire franchise. No, no, no, that's what the tough call
is. You know, it's one thing to do Cape Fear because of bray
Wyatt, But if there were thirty Cape Fears? Can we do thirty Cape
Fears because the first one inspired bray Riott? I think not the fact that
the fact that you know that same thing, like we I'm not doing the
original Cape fear, you know, because of that. No, it definitely
it they're they're I mean because also I mean in that regard to because the
I was reading about how de Malenka was very much they had they gave him
a double oh seven character. Don't called like double host seven or something like
that, or fucking hell when was this in Russo ti at ww. Yeah,
he was given a James Bond like it was a It was a it
was a James Bond version of the Godfather. So fucking stupid. It is
so fucking stupid. I mean, it's impossible to remember most of this stuff
unless you get like encyclopedic about it, just for the lulls, you know,
which I respect, by the way, there's an element of that,
but I like, it's not like all the Bonds inspired that. It's very
hard when we say bond and out of the cinemat if you know the franchise,
you know the movies we have to do, yes, and we're going
to do those first, got it for sure. Whether there's room to expand
the aperture a little bit as a future discussion, but right now we've got
business to attend to and everything's going to be talked about, and I'm and
i'm again I'm open to adding if they're down, you know, like Sad
from Russia's Love. It's it's not going to happen this at this point because
we've passed it in the chronology of things and and hopefully it'll come around again
and we can and we can fill that hole because we do like filling holes.
But yeah, that's one thing we do do. That's right. This
just this last week Goldfinger, Man, what a fucking journey that was.
Oh, what a terrific episode and Harold Sakata ladies and gentlemen talk about a
treasure. Oh, just to be able to you know, that's I've said
it before. I say it pretty much every week. One of my one
of the joys that I get out of it is being able to talk about
wrestlers that it's not really likely we'll talk about, to be able to watch
matches of featuring wrestlers that we're not probably going to talk about on the main
show. You know. It just it's just not within within the likelihood.
You never know, you know, we've scritically touched on it. It's not
going to be like this where Yeah, there's cause to actually go soup to
nuts on the person's contributions and pull up demands from newspaper archives because they're isolated,
you know, it's like it's an isolated thing and it's really about that
wrestler, and they're not always superstar wrestlers. That's the thing too, Like
Under the cinemat is totally forgiving of the fact that this person might not have
been a wrestling superstar and there might not be three hours worth of things to
say about the person. Perfect we have a seat at the table for those
types of wrestlers as well. Yep, exactly, And and I love I
love digging into that and finding out about these people. And yeah, so
I'm not going to say what's up next on this one because this one's going
to be this one's kind of a surprise and it's going to be a little
out of left field. That's another thing about not doing every Lapsed Bond movie
in order is that people preserve that sense of surprise, kind of like the
two thousand and eight Royal rumble, Who's number thirty going to be? Yes,
it is, who's number thirty going to be? You're obliged as a
wrestling fan to preserve a surprise if you have, it's what's film number three
on? In the Carnies are Forever tour? I have to find out.
And just like I told you to stand down on Virgil research last time,
what a fucking how worth it was? That how worth it was that I
feel really good about it looking back looking at the feedback, that was an
appropriate tribute. That was as tlf as it gets and as TLFX as it
gets. So we're very glad that folks were forgiving of the fact that we
spent so much time on a kind of a fringe wrestler. But you got
it by the time it was over. You understood why we were uniquely positioned
to do what we did relative to the now late Virgil. There aren't There
aren't people who really would have had that. I mean, I don't I
can't think of you know, I wonder how many fans had such a unique
yeah, you know, like interaction with him. It's by far the most
personal story we'll ever be able to tell visa via wrestler. Yeah, for
sure, And sure we just didn't. We don't spend a lot of time
trying to meet and know these guys or anything like that. We don't want
to hang out with them, they don't want to hang out with us.
It's a great thing, right and and so one uh bonus we were able
to throw to our patron, speaking of Patreon, was to get our hands
on on the raw video you heard from Bill who actually rolled tape when Virgil
showed up at GP's bachelor party in twenty twelve, and he had it on
video when we didn't even know about it, or we forgot about it,
whatever the case may be, when we reconvened to pay tribute to Virgil.
There's the video. You heard the audio of it on the episode, but
available now to patrons and its entirety. All the video shot that night as
Virgil makes his way through the cigar bar, shot on twenty twelve cell phone
camera. Like, it's great, it's it's it's grainy, it's it's it's
dark. The audio sucks, the you know, the it's a little what
do you call it when I can't think of the the when the motion isn't
completely smooth. Yeah, it's like the motion blur kind of like you know,
it's it's what, it's what it should be. Honestly, for a
video like that, and to actually sit through and watch it with all those
guys who were there. Man, what a what a fucking treat, And
it's it's just a hilarious to say nothing of Papasarrow, which the Solar System
fell in love with him instantly. Oh I know, Oh, I know,
does he know about it? What do you say? Yeah? I
told him, I I I I took screenshots to some of the the the
comments, and I also I told him too, how we kept in the
first conversation and I said, yes, said it's hilarious, and he was
like, you did. I was like, yeah, yeah, we kept
it in. It was so funny. People love it, you know,
and the whole fucking Raymond, Yeah, call me back at nine, oh
right exactly or at nine ah. So yeah, that's that's up there for
you. If you're a patron, you can see the entire video patreon dot
com slash lapsed. Mean, that's the engine that's the heart of the Solar
System from the moat tier, that elite sort of you know, ruling class
that sits above us all and says, you know, without my beneficence,
you wouldn't have shit to chew on and all the way down to you know,
the volume of patrons, all the way down to the three sixteen tier.
We hold you all dear in our hearts and continue to try to deliver
for you. And let me tell you if the past is any indication,
when you're co chairman, get on the ground in Philadelphia heat of April seventh,
we are not going to be able to help ourselves but to begin diaring
the fuck out of this. Listen, as we've done before, TLF will
be on the ground, It's absolutely correct, and we'll be noticing things.
We will be noticing things, yes, and we will be documenting. We'll
be in attendance at Lincoln Financial Field both Knights of WrestleMania as well, So
you want to be plugged into our Patreon for whatever may come from that.
It's going to be an absolute cornacopia of TLF perspective and right hands and left
hooks and fucking teep kicks up the middle, okay, because your co chairs
don't stop until the referee steps in. That's what's up coming up Wrestlomania weekend.
Patreon is where to be. Patreon is where to prove your worth,
and we're looking forward to delivering for you once again that front, yes,
and we do need to encourage folks as well to check out a partnership we're
increasingly proud of as responses come in to Dark Side of the Ring Unheard.
You know, over the years we formed a bond with those guys because they
get it. In particular, Evan Husany's the executive producer. He gets it.
He gets the TLF is definitive. That TLF puts it on the shelf
and provides the launch point for stories worth telling about this strange industry exactly.
And through Unheard we plumb their own archives of sound and insight to you know,
give airing to things that otherwise wouldn't really have a basis. We're good
at that, yes we are. We're good at being like our Everybody else
can can gravitate like flies to a moth's to a flame, to the same
insights and the same beats on the same stories. But here's something that has
no home. Here's an orphan insight that's fucking fascinating. If you're like us,
uh, that is really our probably are our best. One of our
best calling cards is the idea that we do we no detail is too small
in fact, the smaller the better, right, And and but that we
gravitate towards people, you know, like we we know like when we're on
when we're on the ground and we go to any wrestling event, we know
who we want to interview, and we know what you would want us to
notice. You know. It's like, you know, everyone's going to be
like, you know, wanting to gather like a Cody Roads or whatever they
like. No, no, we don't want that. I fuck that.
That's that's boring. We want, you know, we want uh, you
know, an oscar for men on a mission that slaps right. That's where
I sat. Yeah, it's it's it's It may not be boring to get
Cody Roads, but the point is we can make something ten levels below Cody
Roads interesting because we have the we have the same brain you do. And
that's the beautiful alchemy of the whole thing, the symmetry of the whole thing,
and so exactly. Dark Side of the Ring unheard, no uh,
no exception to that rule. Check it out on all your major podcasts platforms.
New episodes come out every Wednesday, the day afternoon. Episodes of Dark
Side of the Ring of course premiere on Vice TV. So excited to bring
unheard to the masses and to deliver some fascinating subjects still to come on that
series. So it's all rocking and rolling. We're here because Pav said,
you know what twenty oh eight Rumble is where I'm taking you guys, strap
yourselves in and if you're wondering why while we're about to answer the question,
we talked to Pave of course, and we're going to hear from him now
on being selected to get a gratuitous Hopper pick and we'll be back with you
after getting insights from Pave as to why we're here on that fucking cast.
Boss. In general, it's good to keep promises, am I right?
Yes it is, and over ten years as TLF kept its promise absolutely and
no exception. Here today, as at long last, and with much delay
due to a million things going on, we finally are prepared to deliver on
a promise when we launched the Hopper. We know over the years that it
became difficult for people who's understandably ceiling wasn't quite as high as some of the
deeper pocketed members of the Solar System to really feel like they had a shot
yep. And when we first did the Hopper, when it was the Patreon
listener Request series, all it took was you know, relatively small pledge,
and we realized really quickly, bossed right that we can't do it that way
because why because it hurts us and that's and that's and that's unacceptable. It
takes the show over for like three years because of how many people want to
bite at that apple. So fine, we did it as an auction and
it blew away our expectations again. You know, I'm going to say I
have I had my reservations at bert At first, I had my extreme reservations.
I was very opposed to it, and then we kind of it's worked
out very well. So absolutely I can't complain. And members of the Solar
System, by winning the Hopper have taken us places that we otherwise never would
have went. And it's always nice to do that with the tailwind of knowing
there's somebody out there for whom it's valuable. And so even if it pushes
us outside of our comfort zone, so be it. Far be it for
us to dictate every single term. We can dictate ninety five percent of them,
thank you very much. But I mean, you know what, sometimes
our voice needs to be heard in places that are uncomfortable for us, and
that's correct, and a bit from that category, a bit from this category
here this time, because as the hopper took off, we realized that,
you know, folks kept trying to get in there, kept trying to win,
kept getting out bid at the last minute. It always seems to come
down to the wire. And we thought, well, what can we do
for folks that clearly wanted and need it but can't get across that finish line.
What can we do to incentivize them to continue to bid, to continue
to find value in the hopper and not just view it as some sort of
impediment to what they desire and need and thirst for. So we thought,
you know, we'll do people who lose will get put into a pot,
and we'll choose at random every year as sort of a holiday gift as Christmas
time comes around, someone that gets a free hopper. We started it.
Of course, you might remember with Cliff. It just came out of nowhere.
His wife emailed us said, hey, you know, I heard about
this thing where maybe for a Christmas gift form I can pay for a show.
How does that work. Being horrified at how much it actually would cost,
I just you know what, Instead of telling you and then you,
I'm convincing him to never listen to this podcast again. How about we just
give it to him for free as a gift. It was around the holidays,
it made sense, and so we decided going forward that we would give
away a hopper selection. Now all the way back around Christmas time, our
guest here this week, Pav got the message that he indeed was drawn from
the random selection of the list of names of folks that had tried several times
and and didn't win. And it's the two thousand and eight WWE Royal Rumble
and a little fascinating little show in its own right. We're pleased to welcome
Path to the show. Now. Path, First, your reaction when you
realized that you're the guinea pig for this free hopper concept. I mean,
first, I must say, like I've never been happier, so be called
it broke boy in my life after just getting the soul out because I did,
I lost a lot of times, even going back to twenty twenty one.
It's funny because I have memories of sending the email because I did make
it pretty far, like I did have some pretty oh yeah bets, so
like I'm my bets, my bet of offers. And it's pretty funny because
I remember sitting in my car and sending an email I think for like seven
hundred ones and I'm like, ship that's us d as well. Like so
it's funny how it all came back. So I was sitting and I got
the email and I was like, wow, this is It didn't seem real.
It never seemed real, and it's kind of crazy that a podcast can
have that much power over you and in you. I guess, as you
guys like to say, but it was. It was. It was real.
It was shocking, and I'm like, I didn't think it was real
for a second, Like let me check the email and me like, you
know where you can check the Gmail. I'm like this better not say like
a Yahoo or something. It's like that's not them. So no, it
was. It was surreal, but no, it was. It was amazing.
I'm happy to be here. Thank you guys. Who who you losing
paid off? Well, Hey that's that's that's kind of the laps fan life
and then a wrestling podcast possible. We are wrestling. We got a space
for the losers, right, Yeah, that's right. If anything, I
think the Virgil showing up your bachelor party proved that, right absolutely. I
mean who I mean, you know who suffers most and in the wrestling world
losers. So I mean that's you know else h us creators too, Loki.
Yeah, Pa is the guy behind. Tell him about it. No,
it's okay, it's not that, So it's not about that. But
yeah, I just make wrestling videos on YouTube as well. So it's just
funny because I know kind of the little struggle that we have, as we
talked about before in the wrestling You call in once, it's like, hey,
what do you do? Uh, you know, I make videos on
YouTube? Yeah what about you know where? You know where it goes from
there. So I can only imagine the horror JP when you put up to
New York all excited for your off Broadway show and then it was time to
answer a question. It's always like because then you immediately become a goon,
like you're just completely like you know, it's you're now like a jack in
the box, you know, essentially, and then all they want to do
is put you back in the box and then and then and then twist it
around again and wait for you to pop up and laugh at you. We
are subhuman, degenerate. It's like we have no voice anymore. Doesn't matter,
Jack, you worked at the Globe. No, I'm sorry, you
do a wrestling podcast. Nope, doesn't doesn't count. So well, Yeah,
I think that's what it is. Is. It's like the pain and
shame of it all. What we put our finger on here and another folks
are afraid to admit is that when you when people know you're a wrestling fan,
you can be nothing else to them, right like ever ever, it's
horrible Like you know, a lot of people like twelve different things, but
wrestling fans can like twelve different things but have only one of them to find
them. That's the problem too, is like Jack, I'm like you two
where I'm so like obsessed with it. I don't watch week tweek too much,
but I just love every little thing about it. Yeah, JP,
respect to you. You kind of have a personality outside of this shit.
Me and Jack are We're screwed. We're done, Like it's over. At
least JP, you can talk about cinematt and teach me about fucking what's his
name, Eugene Gump? Right, But me and Jack, all we have
to offer is how you know, in nineteen eighty six WrestleMania should have been
in one location instead of this or something, you know, like we're done.
Yeah, so true. That that's part of why the Hopper is there,
you know, and why we we we emphasize so much of the fun
willing to pay for this ship because otherwise it would be a crime, how
much time we'd spend on it with zero recompense. Like I want to add
too, you know, one of my one of my safety things is that,
you know, once when they ask what the podcast is about, and
I and I have to and I have to come out, you know,
overcome those more nerves, by the way, than any than any production I've
ever had to do in my entire life, going on stage, you know,
going on stage, Jack knows going on stage for EDNA at the last
minute, nowhere near the amount of nerves that I have when I have to
come and actually admit what the podcast is about. But but the first thing
I do is I immediately talk about Jack being I go, well, my
co host, you know, my best friend from college, and and and
you know who's valedictorian. Oh yeah, exactly, Yeah, yeah, he's
a real person, I swear, yeah, right, intelligence exactly exactly.
Yes, it's like, let me do as much as I cans for the
Herald, Like you know, he's gonna all you know, he's he's he's
a legit person. He's not like a goof. It's like, no,
but I asked you what your podcast is for me. I know we got
to move on so we won't spend so much time on it. But I
have the whole thing ready to my head where I've like pre planned at this
point, I know what to expect, right, I know the reaction they're
gonna give. I know everything that's gonna happen. I would ever be playing
like yeah, so you know, when I was a kid, I always
liked wrestling, and I just I just admit, I'm like I never really
grew out of it, and I just ended up with a YouTube channel and
it's just yeah, and it's like, oh, oh that's great, So
you're really you're really the worst sorry, the worstest one. They want to
see it though. That's that's the worst problem. I don't know if it's
happened to you, guys, but maybe because it's videos is different. I've
had people like literally pull up the video in front of me and I'm just
there, like, what what are we doing here? Guys? Why you're
gonna understand this? You don't know what the what is going on? I
don't want to hear my voice? What are we doing? I? Oh,
no, it's really cool, it's really cool. Yeah, really proud
of you? No you're not? No? No? Oh oh? Is
that right? Well? How about you agree to record what you say about
me when I leave the room? Right, let me leave see you here
and let's see let's see what's really going on. Yeah, well, I'm
glad you're a fellow passenger on this journey of shame and paying going on ten
years here at TLF and yes, long, so what makes your community stronger?
Right interrupts. Right, That's what I love about this community is it's
the best community because we are not afraid to admit that this ship does not
matter and it's not real, well exactly, and that it's it's and that
we haven't ever lost sight of the fact that it marginalizes us to like it
this much. It's not you. You can't get so serious about wrestling that
it becomes respectable. It just gets it gets less respectable the more into it
you get. Yes, so thank you for that and we stand on that
business and PAV great to have you. So two thousand and eight Royal Rumble
tell us why Yeah, so all right, JP, wasn't that bad?
Come on, man, it can't be that bad. You should be happy
it was an MSG your former workplace. I do like I do like watching
an MSG show that happens before the big renovation. And I must say I
think the show was definitely like because this was one of the first shows,
the first peak of you actually switched to HD as a kid. That's really
blew my mind. I'm like, damn, wrestling can look this good.
And I know they went overboard after with all the LEDs and stuff, but
I thought the setup for the show was really nice, really clean. But
yeah, this show the rumble of wait. So the show means a lot
to me, especially growing up. It was it was an end of an
era. I would say, way more than Triple H and undertake your Circle
jerk ever was, but I will I'll explain so I puto context. If
I start running too long, just feel free to interrupt me. But so
it was more in ninety eight, which I know is probably crazy for you
guys. I'm sorry, what have you listened to our show running? No?
I know, but I know, but I'm on your show. I'm
not trying to you know. You know what you know, I'm not trying
to take a shine, And don't worry. Even if you didn't make the
offer, we would cut you off if we needed to, as I deserve
yep. But anyway, So, yeah, So I was more in ninty
eight, which I know you guys were in like high school at that point.
But I was born an indy eight and I became a wrestling fan around
three oh four. I was five six years old. And the reason I
really gone to wrestling, it's kind of I think it might be fascinating for
you guys to know. So I was born and I'm born, but I
became a fan after the boom, after the lapsed era. But I grew
up around a lot of older cousins, and I group around a lot of
like older kids on my street and they were still wrestling fans, like in
a three or four. I'm sure it was not cool for you guys to
be wrestling fans and Eedmerson anymore. But if you're still like twelve thirteen,
it was still kind of edgy. It was still the fumes of the Attitude
era. So I really just became a wrestling fan because all the older cool
kids without were cool were into it. And I became a wrestling fan because
I wanted to like what they liked. And the other thing they really liked
was hip hop. And you know, that's how they dressed, that's how
they talked, that's what they're into. And I think you guys see what
was kind of going. Became a wrestling fan, became a hip hop head.
I see my boy John Cena, and it was just like, yo,
this is my guy, this is my Hull Kogan, and it's it's
interesting because you Jack wrote an article in O four for the Boston Globe about
how hip hop finally wrestling final is a hip hop gimmick that's not totally cringe
and it might actually, you know, do something. Yeah. I was
literally that kid, because I don't think I would have been as big give
a wrestling fan because when I watched Triple h and a suit wasn't cool to
me. Chrispin wa the serial killer wasn't cool to me, right, But
I had a guy where I'm like, if this guy walked up on my
neighborhood, he would be a cool guy, Like I would want to like
meet him. Right. The only people that were cool were like Eddie Guerrero
and John Cena. Like, I wasn't gonna be an Undertaker dead Cowboy fan.
So it really just put me into the universe and I was like,
holy shit, this is a cool guy. This is like my fifty cent
of wrestling. So I just became a huge fan wrestling at twenty. I
begged my mom to order it. She didn't, so I ordered it anyway,
and then I got beat up for that. But you know, just
and the best part was that was the opening match and you guys were there.
That was opening match, and my mom found out and only let me
watched the opening match, right, So whatever I was down, I saw
my boy Sena. When Sina got stabbed later that year by Jesus, I
cried, I didn't want to go to school because he got stabbed. Apparently
when he won the side of wrestling. It's twenty one, I found on
SmackDown Jumping for joy. I was so into it that I took my dad,
who doesn't even speak English, she only speaks Punjabi, which is probably
the only reason he let me. You know, he took me to buy
seen his album the first day it came out. That's amazing, wow.
And I was just I was so happy because the cover was like the belt,
the spinner belt. I treated the case of the CD like it was
the real championship be I'll just walk around on my waist like, hey,
I'm the champion who. I was just super into it. And as the
years went on, well, go to O seven, I was still a
fan. And I must say, though, you guys always talk about this
because apparently you guys know everything. Even as a kid. Though, I
must say, as the years went on, though, I did notice he
wasn't a rapper anymore, and it did hurt me. And it's funny because
you guys noticed it, and I was like six seven, and even I
was noticing it because in June, I'm buying this guy's album and then by
wrestling, it's twenty two. He's just hustled, little to respect. But
he was still my guy, but the magic was kind of gone. But
yeah, the years went on, I was still a fan. No Mercy
O seven comes and it was supposed to be Randy Ordon versus Seni for the
Last man Standing match for the w title. I beg my mom to order
it because when you're a kid, you know when a match is a gimmick
match, blood, there's gonna be violence, and you will actually see something
that you wouldn't see on RAW. My mom ordered it for me. I
don't know if you guys remember, but that ends up being the show where
Sina is injured and he has to give up the title. Yeah. Yes,
And I didn't know that going in because I was kind of like,
I grew up in a householdhre. I didn't have Internet until like nine or
like oh wait, basically all my friends weren't really into wrestling that much by
that era. So I ordered the show and I'm all excited, and it's
like Sina's not even here. His dad like tores Rotator cuff and it was
pretty heartbreaking. And on the Tuesday because he tore it that Monday. Yeah,
and he announced it on e c W. Who the fuck watches EC
do? They did that because they didn't have a live show between No of
course, yeah, of course, No, that's what I'm saying as a
kid. Though for me, I wasn't gonna watch ecw right, so I
just didn't know it was my fault, and I told my mom, like,
I don't want to watch this scene was not even here, and it
just hurt because I was already kind of like falling out of love because he
wasn't the same guy anymore, and now he's not here. I was like,
ah, man, it was changing, and then suddenly Batistell's like,
hey, the Batista guys beating Undertaker's ass. He's a little cooler than this
guy. But it just hurt. I guess the best example of like Jack,
I mean JP, imagine you're working of the Ring ninety three and holding
like breaks his leg and you found out the pre show. You would be
horribly horrible. You'd be depressed. Listen. It was bad enough when he
lost to Yokozuna. He wasn't even injured. Yeah, at least he at
least he showed up and lost. Right, my guy just got ar killed
on a table and never seen him for like four months. That's amazing.
And you mentioned that thing about, you know, Seena's identity slipping. I'm
sure I've told this story too over the years on TLF. But I remember
one time I went to a show with the Garden and Boston. I was
taking the train home and I could tell that people were like anti scene,
and I was trying to get like a sense like why what was it about?
You know, the scene? And they were saying like things like he's
a wanna be and you know, basically you know the thing someone would say
about eminem in like nineteen ninety nine or something. And I was like,
dude, like that character's gone, Like I know you still see that when
you look at him due to his outfit, but no one started hating him
until he stopped leaning into that, right. Yeah. And it was just
weird too because since I really got to wrestling before all my friends did because
of my older cousins and everything. My friends didn't see it because they became
fans in O six. They became friends when I was in grade two and
grade three. I'm like, do you think this guy is cool? He
was cooler like two years ago when my brass knuckles bos boss, Can I
invite you to consider a world where your childhood wrestling memories are in HD?
I mean, I listen part of the part of the charm is the squiggly
lines that come from the lights when they shoot up too high. You know
you don't, that's true, I must say, though I was lucky enough.
We're up until the Rumble of eight. Though, I had so many
shows taped, and they were all on VHS because we couldn't we weren't getting
a PV or anything. So I kind of I had the little thing to
where would record the tapes over and over again watch him, and that's kind
of what gets the internet thing. But listen, I feel you, guys.
I go back and for some reason, as a kid were in ninety
eight. My comfort zone has become watching nineteen ninety four for some reason,
so I can only imagine how much better it was when it's like affect.
Yeah, so, how did your dad feel about Great Collie? To me,
that's that's exactly the proving of our point is that if you go back
and you start watching those things, no matter what you see, it's so
cozy. I love I love Hasbro. It's so cozy for some reason,
you can figure out that there's something there that is just missing from from today's
product. Uh. But speaking of the Great Collie, That was a weird
time because you get to realize, like I'm in Toronto, right, so
I was born here, but on Punjab you speak at everything fully Punjabi,
your parents fully Punjabi. But you got to realize there's such a disconnect from
being Punjabi here and being like this gorilla from India. Right, it's also
happens to you from a job. I couldn't relate to him because he he
could rarely speak Punjabi, let alone speak English. But there was no like
it was never there. And same thing with my dad and stuff like he's
like, yeah, it's cool. But even my mom to this day,
like she knows obviously into rest of course, but she will roasted too,
Like that guy could barely walk. What are they doing? It didn't go
overwhelm in the community either, like that, Like it was cool, but
they could have they could have found anyone else, They could have done anything
else. It didn't. It wasn't a good look. It's amazing. It's
just so phenomenal. I mean, I just thought of it when you said
that. Because he's in the rumble and he gets in the ring and they
scream, you can't wrestle at him. Immediately or a guy man for a
guy, it's you know what, respect though he still somehow made it work
for a guy who didn't speak the language to go in front of thousands of
people and have matches regardless of how they were. I respect it. But
yeah, just a side note. It's weird because like Ginger Maha is from
Canada and hes Punjab. He speaks the language, like I related to more
to him than I would with KLi, right, but they still did the
same ship with him and made him this anti like foreign heel. It's like,
dude, this guy is like a normal Canadian kid who just happens to
be Punjabi. Like he just a normal guy. Why does he have to
be some like weird foreign heel. But that's beside the plant he just asked.
But yeah, it's it's it's interesting what that's that's the racishm in wrestling
right there, you know, like that's it's in that it's just soaked in
that, in that in that blood where you know, if you if they
can, if they can exploit the idea that you're from another country and make
you a bad guy, they eat it up. But it's so weird because
it doesn't make any sense. It's like, wouldn't you guys make more money
if you kind of made him a cool guy, because then at least us,
people who are pu in job you would actually want to watch him.
But it's like you take him and you make him not even like us anymore,
so so why would we care? Well, that's that's not to get
money from anyone at that point. That's the age old thing. It's like,
you know, people aren't going to support an ethnic babyface unless he's the
world champion or contending for the world title. You know, people aren't going
to get into somebody just because they happen to share an ethnicity with them,
but they're relative losers on the pecking order of the given sport. You know.
It's like people are not going to look at somebody as as a superhero
unless, like Eddie Guerrero, they actually raise to the world title level,
especially if it's in spite of you know, the plans, the outlooks limitations,
and the ceilings placed on him. That's why Eddie took off so much.
And O four it was like, okay, now we have somebody who's
who's Mexican, and then it actually contends to be the face of the company.
But if you're you know, if you're just gonna like like like you're
saying, like I'm going to sort of like reverse engineer a push based on
the fact that this guy is of an ethnicity other than what they're accustomed to
having under their roof, then it's everyone. People sniff that out right away,
like this person isn't going to be a long term person we can be
proud of. You know, even when gender won the title, people knew
the score, you know, Yeah it was the month in and I know
we'll move on from it. But it's like, you're doing this so you
can sell shows in India, right, maybe you guys would have sold more
if you did a house show in Calgary or something because he's from Calgary.
You idiots, like no one in India isn't a care man, Like they
don't care because he's not one of them, And at this point he's not
one of us either anymore. So it's like, you play yourselves fascinating,
So, uh, get me straight here. Did you see this show live
or yeah, one hundred percent I watched it live. I I watched at
my cousin's house. Yeah, that person on person my bad at my cousin's
house. Yeah, no, I uh, I was at my cousin's house
the same order Coasons that got me into this. By this point, they
weren't really into it, but they kind of got it for me. And
yeah, just a nice little like so it gets together. I was watching
it, having your great time, and yeah, I thought it was a
great show. I was. Seena never even crossed my mind. I mean,
it's like, hey, maybe rain Mysterio might beat the piece of shit
Edge, who I still hated from six because he traumatized my childhood for the
cash. But I'm like, maybe Batista might win the rumble. I don't
know, Like Scena never crossed. I genuinely thought I was gonna see that
guy until June or something. Yeah, well that was the reporting, That's
what I was saying. And yeah, and I guess, just to let
you know. So I'm watching the Rumble Sean and Taker started. Everything's great.
I thought the show was pretty solid. I'll just say this. You
know how when you guys are watching like shows and you're doing your deep dive
and I think jpeople like I stood up. I'll just see this. Uh.
When number thirty hit. My shirt was off, like I was attending.
I was like a nine year old kid. Shirt was a off.
You thought I would just scored the game winning goal in the rumble in the
World Cup or something like. It was the greatest moment in my life.
Did you take it off like the way Sina does where he takes it off
one arm and then all of a sudden, it's like, no, I
wish no, I just took it off. I just threw it. I'll
just started to scream like a primal, like genuinely primal. My aunt walked
down and my mom, that's me. That makes even more embarrassing because I'm
just left alone and watched by myself. That's the funny part. In the
side room and by myself. My aunt walks in and say what happened?
When I'm like, I'm just looking at Hi. I'm like, she just
walked away. I have no idea, I don't know what to say to
you. She just walked away. But it was That's what I mean.
By the end of an era, wrestling never felt like that ever again.
For me, that was the moment. Damn. You know. It's it's
fascinating boss to hear someone basically identified the same beats that we identified as Hasbro
kids. Yep, and just those are the core memories. And here's bad
acknowledging that really, no matter when that occurs for you, it kind of
doesn't get that good again. And we can argue the relative merits of the
different eras and make a case that if you strip nostalgia out, it still
was better on its face. But I don't know a lot of familiar rings
and what he's saying, even though we're generations apart. Yeah, for sure,
Sorry not the Trump, but just imagine this, Jack, I mean
JP rumble ninety four, Holgan comes back. What are you doing? I
would have Are you kidding me? I would have been I'd have been screaming
around like a like a like a. Your shirt would have been off.
Your shirt would have been That's all I gotta say. Your shirt would have
enough. I probably would have ripped my shirt off. I probably would have
stood it, you know, and just screamed at the top of my lungs.
My face had been beat red, my thirteen year old face beat right,
and I would have tore my shirt right off. Boss Brett Brett's in
there, lugers in there, Savages in there, maybe a couple of others
and then number thirty American plays. Oh no, they weren't playing music yet,
but of course he's got that correction. I won't play music. That's
one thing. If you're going to pick like out of an out of cannon,
thing, might as well be a rumble, because then I know Boss
is going to absolutely have all the little details. I mean, you'll the
master of what the Big four, right or the big five you guys always
say back in the day, Yeah, back in the day. I mean
I kidd me, I knew every I knew every result by heart, and
I still know enough of it. I know. Yeah, listen, I
don't blame you. Now there's been like forty of them, and there's two
rumbles every year, so I don't blame you. But yeah, it was
just like the greatest moment. And that's what I mean by end of an
era, Like wrestling never felt the same again after that, And there's been
plenty of reasons why, and I've quickly explained it. But it was just
primal, that's the best way I can describe it. Like game winning buzzer
beaters. Something happened just the most surreal thing. Never thought it was possible,
my guy who truly felt like my guy, right cause, like I
said, I had friends who liked him, but like you guys weren't there
in four you know, it just it really just was perfect. And then
he goes in there and he wins, and I was so happy when he
got Triple H out of there. I hated even good guy Triple H back
as a kid, I hated him so much. So it was just it
was perfect. It was beautiful, and I'm pretty sure he was like the
first idiot's appoint at the sign. So even though that's kind of sad,
at least he did it. Respect the ruined everything, but whatever, because
we have to putt the sign every time now, but he won. It
was amazing, and uh, Benevena, it's just I look back at that
time and they instantly ruined him. The next month, he's out here catching
a shot at No Way Out for some reason, because that's what that's what
you do. And then he's losing at WrestleMania in a triple threat match because
we you know, you know Paul has to be there, right Vince,
you know your your former son has to be there. It's just it's Sina
never was the same after this. I feel like this is when he peaked
in my opinion, like he was just never the same. But soon he's
wearing colorful T shirts. He just I don't know. This was the last
night where Seena felt like my guy. It was the last night where he
had that aur to him, and I slowly just stopped being a fan.
Eventually later that year, and by what I mean my end of an era.
Your boy discovered the internet, heead, so you know how that happens
when you become a wrestling fan. That's never the same. Next thing,
you know, I'm like, oh, Scena's overrated. This guy online said,
you know, Scena sucks, and everything changed. But on this night,
though he was my guy, he was the goat to me. It
was it was, but after this night, it was end of an air
of wrestling never hit the same. I stopped taping the shows and watching them
over and over again. By wrestling at twenty four, it was like,
yeah, maybe i'll watch it. It's fine. I still watched, but
it wasn't the fast. I wasn't let's say, I wasn't coming from school
putting the tape of Rumble eight and playing with my figures over and over again
until Rock came on after like April, you know, And a lot of
it had to do with they couldn't top this and they just seen it wasn't
the same I discovered the Internet. I was getting older. But yeah,
sorry for the little wrap, but on this night, it's hard. It's
hard to rap, it's hard to I started to put into words how special
it was and how down bad it was after this, I big that.
So imagine being able to extend that period of innocence through to about age twelve
thirteen fourteen, which we were able to do because of how long it took
for the Internet to become ubiquitous and for us to get in our respective homes
twenty Yeah, I mean yeah, JP, you didn't know until like almost
college days, right you Apparently you only did dot com and stuff, so
you you had it good. I didn't know all the I didn't know all
the secrets. I didn't even know that there were like I didn't even know
that there were such things as as these as He's behind the scenes dirt sheets.
I thought, you do you even observe bro? No? Do you
even lords of pain? Dot e? Bro? My eyes were not open.
I could not observe at the time. So this is fascinating, Pav.
We have here the ultimate Scena fan, right, we hear about see
it being the generational guide. It makes sense, just like Hogan was to
us. But you but your line in the sand is is how they handled
Awaight. Let's say Sena ghost to WrestleMania Orlando that year beats Randy Orton in
a one on one match clean to win the belt no elimination chamber Shenanigans.
Does you or yeah? Would you have been around longer? One hundred percent?
Because what happened at Summer Slam Batista and seen it? You're telling me
if he's not champion and he's the undefeated beast and Batista's tweaking on SmackDown and
they go one on one, I meet of in a Summer Slam, that's
that. I think that's box office like because those were my guys, right
like smack nvers Rote six however, was literally Sena and Bautista. It was
such even though a short period of time, those two really were the faces
of my childhood, right, and I think they could have extended it now
by nine would it have been cooked? Absolutely, because O nine it was
like the one of the worst years in wrestling right in terms of quality,
And that's when Sina kind of really I'm not one of those people that like
to blame PG right, I'm not one of those little bringbag TV fourteen,
I don't care. But the way the product was going, the way they
wanted seen it to be, it was gonna eventually come crashing down and hurt
inside. But they could have I think Batista Seena for the title could have
been really really special in summer Summer level A. Yeah, that's a great
call. Yeah. I remember kind of being thrown together and stuff, and
it just chilled awkward. Well, that twenty one oh five it was like
the last time that they well one of the last times I'm sure since it's
happened, but it seemed like a twenty year drought where they said, all
right, we're gonna make guys in the rumble in at Mania the way everybody
knows it's supposed to happen, the way the fans just sit there waiting for
it to happen every year, and we always fuck it up or come up
with some dumb shit to twist it up. And that was like it was
there were two made men and that those were two horses that they could ride
on both shows for years, and there's paths sitting there and being like,
Okay, what that does is make you want to see them clash, and
they just didn't. They just couldn't. And there's too many injuries and all
all kinds of bullshit going on. But oh wait, rumble, So how
did you feel about Jeff Hardy PAV because the things you were saying about,
why I've seen it connect out. I think I'm gonna get kicked off the
call because JP might hear this. Oh see, that's why I'm bringing it
up. Of course, listen, you guys probably seen the memes Jeff party
and OWA. It was bigger than Obama. Man, this is fascinating.
Like when I hear about people talk about Jeff Hardy who were young when he
was, you know, a top guy in WWF his singles guy, they
talk about it much the same way you just talked about Seena, some like
total like corn memory superhero, which fascinates me. To tell me about where
Hardy stood for you. He of course goes against Orton for the title on
this show, and his first real shot at you know, main event glory
as much as Jpa's Jeff Hardy. If trust me, if Jeff Hardy was
around the nineties doing that shit, JP, you would have been a huge
fan. I'm sorry, you would have loved him. He was around.
Mind he's doing that shit, And I couldn't say sorry by bad when he
was beefitting a Razor Ramona of squash Match. I'm sorry he didn't become a
huge fan. Bad Yeah, the actual Jeff Harvey. But yeah, no,
Jeff Party was always guy's not gonna believe this shit. But Jeff Hardy
was like an urban legend in my childhood, Like he was almost like a
myth. Like. So, so I started watching three o four right,
and as you guys know, he wasn't in the company back then, but
I would hear from my older cousins about, Yo, there's this guy Jeff
Hardy. He used to jump off flatterers, He used to do this shit.
He used to jump off stages. It literally became an urban legend.
And I swear to god, there was a rumor that Jeff Party died.
That's why he wasn't in the company. Warrior, Yeah, that's that's why
in three oh four and five when he wasn't there, I was like,
oh, rest in peace, Jeff Party died. That's why he's on the
video games anymore. That's why he's not wrestling. He must have jumped off
a stage and broke his like, I swear that was actually the rumors.
And then I remember tuning into TNA one day just out of nowhere, at
thought Velocity was gonna be on, and it turned out to be the first
episode of TNA and I saw Jeff Hardy. I was like, this guy
is alive. Holy shit. And then the face pain and the knon glow.
I'm sorry JP. He he was. He was amazing. He looks
so cool. He was so different. I know it's cringey, I'll be
I'm a grown up now. I get it's cringey now looking back at it.
But he was just it was just different. It was just so cool.
It was so unlike you know, triplet in a suit or whatever you
would see on the other program. And then when he came to I loved
it. I thought he was really cool. Uh he jumped listen, he
jumped off stages. What more do you want? As a kid, You're
gonna love that And the face pain. It's so marketable. Everybody won the
sleeves. I used to put the little like. He wasn't my number one
guy, but he was definitely like top three. I would put like socks
on my arms and kind of cut him, and my mom a would yell
at me because I tried to make the arm sleeves. He was just that
guy. It was. It's hard to really capture why. But you have
a guy who looks cool as shit doing weird dance moves on the stage.
He has piro, he has an entrance with purple lighting, and he jumps
off. Shit. I can't that's all you need. I can totally understand
where you're coming from, except for the fact that he he looked like an
idiot and he fucking sucked and he uh the only wait, the only problem
with the pyro was that it didn't go into his face and burn him.
Ang it did one time. It did, it actually did. That's the
crazy not enough. And the fact that he when he jumps off those stupid
things, risking his life for no reason, was that he didn't actually you
know, kill himself. So then a hot dog, right, yeah,
it was it was Boss was a bid for immortality and I'm listening to pav
and I think it worked. It did. Listen, it's it's tragic the
fact that you have to do it in the first place. I get it.
I'm growing up, I get it. But it was just a different
time and at that point it just worked. Everybody was a Jeff Hardy fan.
People. It was him like, I mean, at least this you
respect ri mysterial, right, JP, Sure, totally. Yeah. He
makes me believe you respect your masterial as the kids too. But once once
Jeff Hardy came in, it was just like this was the next evolution.
Obviously he wasn't doing the crazy, high flying tanning, but it was just
it was a stun show era and that's what people want to see. We
wanted to, you know, you guys had your stuff in the attitude or
we just kind of wanted some of that magic too. He he just didn't.
The thing is is that I could believe Raymisterios. Raymisterio has always made
me believe that that what he's doing makes sense. I can I can forgive
that and all the flippy floppy shit. The problem is Jeff Hardy, I
don't believe any of his shit. Could actually hurt anybody. Yeah, no,
listen, that's fair. Listen if you're talking to me right now,
twenty five year old pav I agree, ten year old Pave, though,
I'm sorry, but play the theme song. Get the purple lighting out.
We're gonna dance like weirds on the stage. I'm sorry, yeah song.
Some see the writing on the wall. Yeah, you know what, you
know, he's just the problem is he was always just modest. Is that
to the bottom, to the bottom, he was to the bottom. Let
me just quickly say this. It is funny though, because you guys talking
about this, I'm hyping up Jeff Hardy. But mind you when you and
you also mentioned the ages thirteen or fourteen later, I was thirteen, I
think when the Victory Road incident happened and I was watching it live. So
if you ever, uh, you know, the whole never meet your heroes
apparently actually even watch my heroes, because well, I can't that that happened,
seas that the Oscars tonight naked. I don't know if you guys saw
that yet, So I saw the twitter. Apparently you shouldn't meet your heels,
don't watch your heros, just don't watch wrestling. Yeah, that's that's
that's definitely the that's the that's the moral of everything. The whole Lopstan podcasts
don't watch wrestling. Well, what's un settling about it is you realize that
the way these guys achieve immortality is to go into areas that permanently scar them
psychologically and physically, and you know, just to stick to a playbook that
keeps them together really is boring, and so they end up. You know,
it's like, you're not going to get someone that does the things Jeff
Hardy does without the flip side of that coin, which is intense risk taking
and borderline behavior outside the ring as well. No, for sure. I
mean it's like you guys said, you're not going to get people to wrestle
without having something wrong with them. The history. You're not You're not a
normal person to want to be a wrestler. There's something missing, you need
something you like it's it's you're not normal. Yeah, yeah, there's something.
There's something about you that society doesn't permission that the lifestyle of the pro
wrestler allows you to continue. I mean we've always seen it, right,
even back in tough enough days or even Now. I don't know if you
have seen the OBW show, but just look at the people who want to
do this, right. I'm not trying to be mean, but a lot
of them don't have much going for them. But this seems to be like,
you know, this is this is my shot. It's like the bigger,
faster, stronger, this is my shot. You know, I'm to
help do this. I can, I can maybe make some money. I
have a look, you know, I have charisma, I can I can
could have prompe. But it's like that's that's that's that's kind of the mo
of wrestling all around. It's like you always it attracts these people who don't
know what to do with themselves. Yeah, but they know they know they
once got praised for looking ripped, you know. And I get so addicted
to someone saying they're in good shape one time that they absolutely run as fast
as they can toward any profession that lets them just prioritize being in shape first
and foremost. And you know, of course a lot now it's been a
total turnover in the industry. To word, just about everybody of any prominence
in the industry grew up an absolute obsessive fan of the thing, and so
you also have that reaching for that, that that sort of a reaction that
you saw your heroes get on television, and now you're you can't believe you're
in the position to maybe get that out of people too, and that just
you'll never that'll never be satiated, and you'll take yourself to you know,
physical limits that are just completely unreasonable, trying to be worthy of the reactions
of the fans that you remember having towards your well in PAVs case John Cenas
and Jeff Hardy. So yeah, again, always so fruitful when a member
of the Solar System via the hopper can put an era in front of us
that we would never voluntarily pull up. But there's so much, always,
so much meat on the bone to this very thing. That is what unites
us all is the experience across the generations of being a wrestling fan that hasn't
changed. No matter how much the nature of the business has changed, and
and how to watch it has changed and how to receive it has changed,
what doesn't change is how everyone else feels about you for liking wrestling, and
that's that's where you get the nods from a twenty five year old just as
quickly as you do from a sixty one year old. And that's, of
course what the podcast is about. So anything else on the two thousand and
eight Royal Rumble Path, please the floor is yours. No, nothing really.
I hope you guys found some enjoyment from here, So I can't wait
to listen to the podcasting here. How you guys felt Belgium or something.
You're in a different country, so I can't wait to hear about that.
Yeah, no, I can't wait. Yeah, I can't wait to listen
to what. I'm happy I won, you know, never feel happy to
be a loser. The only thing I do want to say about this is
one, everybody buy your tickets for Philadelphia. It's not that hard man do
the damn thing. Second, I want to just give a little shouts under
the cinemat. I feel like a lot of people don't know how special that
show is, Like Eugene Gump is my hero and how thanks to JP and
I know, but for real, like jokes, I'm not trying to kiss
your ass or whatever, but I really respect how over the years, like
Jack, you always kind of carry the front on the laps fan with his
research, the story telling, and as someone who's been I think a Patreonic
apiece like twenty twenty one, and I've listened to like every cinemat. I've
learned so much from it and I really respect JP, how like you really
grew as a host and kind of like telling the stories and the research and
everything from One thing that's really ingrained in my brain is scream telling the story
of like he Weinstein and stuff. You really crush it. You're amazing at
it, and I think it's really undervalued in the Grand Smen things. So
some people might just listen to this on Spotify or whatever. They don't know.
And I know you guys advertise it, but trust me, I can
vouch for it. I low key might even like Under the Cinemat more than
the main show. And that's not a dig. It's just it's unlike anything.
And you got to realize these Jack and JP, they have the same
humor as us listeners. Just imagine it when it comes to movies, and
there's so much out there, so much you will learn, and there's so
much stuff that I pass on to my friends and family because everyone loves movies,
right, So I just want to give a shout out to the cinemat.
It's a great thing. Definitely check it out, appreciate that. Really
do well. JP. You know you should just when people ask you what
your podcast is about, unlike me, you can just say it's about movies.
Yeah, I get into that. Sometimes they just say sports and entertainment.
Just follow that. That really clears that doesn't beg any follow ups at
all. Let me just let me just let ex likely say this. I
have done that before. I'm like, yeah, I just make videos on
sports. Yeah, what sporting sports? Entertainment based sports? Say that sports
of aspecious nature? Have you ever heard of predetermined sports? Have you ever?
Have you ever heard of fake wrestlings there? Yeah, because honestly,
if you say wrestling, they might think amateur wrestling. We can't have that
either. I'm waiting for the day where someone's like, yeah, I went
for the day it runs like a Jim Ross or somethings like yeah, you
know, how about them that sooner? How about the you know double leg?
You no, no, sir, I'm talking about fake wrestling. Oh
my god. Yeah. Yeah. If you if you're out in Iowa and
you say you're doing a podcast, and it's about wrestling. They might not
necessarily think it's pro wrestling. It's true. You got to keep that in
mind, where kids grow up wrestling at age three and stuff. It's died
in the wold. Well, there's been terrific. We want to thank you,
Pav. Glad we could close this loop here and get you the the
the promise Glad we drew your name and that you can get a little flavor
and and help influence the show because it is about the listeners. Really,
I mean, that's that's that's a shoot. So thanks very much for sure.
And last thing, I'll quickly get your bids in. This was literally
proof that no matter how much you bid or what you do, you might
actually win. Because I never thought I would, but hey, this is
literally proof. Get your bids and whenever it's open and you never know.
Wonderful. Thanks man. So there you have at lum Sum boss John Seena
perspective that I don't know. I know it's out there, but to hear
someone passionately recounted as something else, I mean, we can't all listen.
I'm actually okay with the John Seena perspective. I'm not okay with the Jeff
Hardy perspective. But you're right, we got what that was clear, But
I just I mean, but this is this is wrestling, right, Like,
what is he What does pav have? Now? He has John Cena
wearing a three piece suit every where he goes for no discernible reason, like
you said, and I'm the Oscars though, because he's fucking he was taken
on stage unless he has something to sell that's offbeat. You know, given
his druthers, he's going to wear a three piece suit every waking hour of
his life. Yes, he goes to bed in a three piece like pajama
suit. And think of how he wrestled. This is around the time two
thousand and eight when the Institute of the Dress Code and famously Undertaker and Sena
were exempt because their gimmicks didn't really make sense to be wearing suits on the
road and in between towns and stuff. It's like, are you fucking kidding
me? And he's the guy that can't take a suit off of his back
for ten seconds. Now to maybe he felt left out and so now he's
like making up for lost time. I think there's something to be said for
that that he had to run around like a like a teenager from nineteen ninety
eight for like twenty five years on television that he still does for God's sake.
Yeah, well when he comes back, that's the look, right,
because it's now that look is now less about the era that it happened in
and it's more about the caricature that is John Cena. Like. But I
see that look, I just think John Cena. I don't think a particular
year or nope, I think of a goofball, a goofball who makes a
surprise entrance at number thirty in the Royal Rumble on this particular year getting a
huge pop from MSG but apropos for two thousand and eight Sena and most have
seen his run post you know, hardcore rap character. As soon as he
gets in the ring, they start booing like crazy yep, because he starts
doing his punches and yeah, all that stuff. It's such a it's such
a crystal clear sort of like exhibit of the duality of the way the fans
felt about John Cena at the time this particular show, because they couldn't see
more happy to see the guy as a surprise entrant. They couldn't be more
ghassed to see him there in the flesh, and then as soon as he
starts mixing it up, it's like he's the last person in the world I
want to see doing well. It's been so funny, and it's so funny.
How how that's all gone now too, that he's a oh yeah,
part time or movie star. Totally. They fucking eat the shit out of
his hand now. All along all they wanted was less yep, not different,
just less right, right right, always the case. And we'll be
insterrupting a bit of it later. But he's since done an extended interview with
Chris van Vliet in which he talked about a time when they talked about turning
him heel in the twenty twelve Rock series. He actually recorded a heel theme
song, Wow, no shit. He had a wardrobe ready to go for
what his heel character will look like, a singlet with a boxing style robe.
The track kind of bangs. I listened to it. It's pretty good.
It's sort of like a it's just back to like that hard charging,
bloodthirsty John Cena voice. That's wild so singlet, that's what he said.
They didn't show a picture of it, but that's what he said. It
was going to look like, God help us. It's dirty. Yeah,
it definitely makes you feel uncomfortable if nothing else. But this is this is
a sena you know who's right there on the on the line. You're you're
gonna turn a heel or not You're gonna be a guy who's always going to
be a perennial superhero. Show down our mouth, babyface so the merch keeps
moving. Or are you gonna be somebody that the fans can be confident they
can sway and move kind of like Rock. You know, he comes back
this year conquering hero. He thinks people can be more gassed for the in
his mind, the head of the Table storyline, And within weeks he's got
a pivot because he's not going to be that guy fighting the crowd every week.
No no, no, no, no way, no way. And
I give him credit for being that smart for sure, although I don't know
if I give him credit for his his now skincare line. Well, that's
not going to stop. I know, too many, too many opportunities,
too many zoom meetings, too many PowerPoint slide decks. Although I might have
to you know, my as I was I was sending you that photo that
that screenshot of him fucking cleaning himself on Instagram, And I was with my
daughter and she was like, she's so into skincare right now that she was
like, oh my god, you have to get that. And I'm like,
oh my god, was it meant for your eyes? Your eyes?
That's such like a tired play, like women love it, but guys love
it too. I love it too. Stop stop stop trying. Stop trying
to hide the fact that you've penetrated your your addressable market, and I have
to come up with like foolish reasons to sell it to people that don't want
it. Get it. I'm gonna have to get it now because have fun.
Let let me know. I want to review. I'll let you know.
So PAV wasn't the only person that looks back on the two thousand and
eight Royal rumble and has has a story to tell. Dalton wrote us as
well. He said, dearest co chairs, Oh, what's that Dalton Castle.
No, I'm comfortable saying no. I don't want to say the last
name, but it's not Dalton Castle, so it is to not create any
concern. Actually, why don't you pass along the yeah, the sentiments here
if you can, all right, dearest code chairs, Oh we just went
away there. It is listening to the Hull Cogan nineteen eighty four episode,
and I heard you'll be doing the Royal Rumble two thousand and eight to show
I've yet to fully watch, but remember very well for a few reasons.
This story goes back a few months but leads into the Rumble show. By
October two thousand and seven, I was twelve years old and was in seventh
grade. My mom and father were going through a divorce, and one of
the things I would try to do to get my mind away from that was
watching SmackDown as it was still on the CW. I remember watching highlights of
when John Cena tore his peck and kept thinking was he still champ? As
this was during his one year title reign. I found out quickly that it
was Randy Orton, then Triple H, then Norton again who were the champs?
As the months went on, I mostly focused on the SmackDown side since
we could only afford local television. Plus, I was a huge Undertaker fan
and watched his story with Edge and Batista going after the World heavyweight title.
A few days after the RUMBLEO eight. I remember going on my school's computer
and going to WWE dot com to see who won the rumble, and when
I saw John Cena pointing at the sign, I was in utter shock.
I still remember the announcements on SmackDown were Vince McMahon. No, I remember
the announcements on vinc on SmackDown were Vin sick Man was saying how John Cena
would be out of action for six to twelve months. Actually on ECW Interestingly
enough, we'll get to that. Yeah, I shouldn't really be surprised over
sixteen years later that it was Sena that one, but at the time it
was still shocking knowing he came back so quick from that injury. The poppy
gets when his music starts might have been one of the best Sena pops he's
ever gotten. Thank you guys for reading the email, and thank you for
Jolka Mania and Sina Mania. So why was it such a surprise to people,
such a mind blowing twist that John Cena showed up in this royal Rumble?
Well, as mentioned, started on October first of two thousand and seven.
Yeah, it's an episode of Ron. He was wrestling mister Kennedy.
I have to think this is one of the earliest examples of where someone that's
a big time deal gets hurt working in the ring with mister Kennedy, whether
or not it's his fault, and that ultimately being his downfall at WWE.
It usually isn't it usually mister Kennedy who gets injured too. Sounds kind of
weird. Yeah, well he tore his Yeah he did. He He ended
up losing the money in the bank opportunity from the wrestling any of the year
before because he tore his tricep award at something like that is labor him,
I forget what it was. And then so they rushed to get the briefcase
off him, him being the first briefcase holder, not the first, but
him being the one where it's like, okay, this means you're going to
actually win the belt. You know it's been established right when you cash in.
This is like a thing. So but they rushed the briefcase off of
them, get it to edge because they thought he have to be out for
months and months, And then upon further examination, it turned out the injury
was not as bad as they thought, and they fucked the whole thing.
Up for no reason, which which hurts even more, and so he never
really got back on that track where he was red hot. I mean we
talked about this during TNH. You needed mister Kennedy. Oh yes, I
thought he was. You know, I was not a huge fan of his.
I was not a believer until that fucking money WrestleMania promo after he won
money in the bank in the year before you know all this, and it
was like, I was there. We were there live in Detroit, in
Distois, and I remember just losing my shit over this guy who I I
was not really impressed with for the most part, but he gave such a
direct and killer promo. I was like, oh my god, this guy,
this guy's a fucking star, fiery, fiery exactly, somebody who was
screaming with conviction because you felt as a fan that the WWE was behind him,
because he had reason to carry himself with that confidence, and then getting
the marks against him for people getting hurt in his matches led him losing that
confidence, and of course that's death for a pro wrestler. If you can't
if you're second guessing yourself, and if you can't let what you want to
do instinctually be what you come to be known for. It's death. You
can't act, can't do it. So this was kind of the beginning of
that unraveling October first, two thousand and seventies, working John Cena, who
was long reigning ww champion, had won the belt in the spring of two
thousand and five and hadn't lost it defending against all comers and pushing against that
tide of people sort of rejecting him for his kind of you know, kind
of awkward in ring style is awkward physicality. He just didn't look like a
guy that looked like he was really kicking ass when the bell sounded, right,
and people kind of got sick of that. So anyway, despite you
know, moving so much merchandise that it had been fucking corporate malpractice to take
the belt off of him and to find him down or even to turn him
heel, you know, obviously that was the argument against it. So it
was this very strange thing where people were rejecting him, but nobody else made
sense in that spot to the degree he did even though he was being rejected
for the presentation. So that was sort of the defining story of the WWE
from the mid two thousands to the end of the two thousands through two thousand
fourteen really fifteen. So here he is and it's a spot where scene does
the hiptoss and you know it does the hiptos and he lands on his ass.
Yes, so he did that, but it looked like he kind of
kept his arms stuck under Kennedy's for a beat too long and it kind of
stretched out as Kennedy's body went flying without without a release valve, and it
tore the pack. Just the same injury that Cody Rhodes was able to ride
to huge fucking drama a couple of years ago. Right, Yeah, I
think about it. It's remarkable that these two huge moments, Cody recovering coming
back winning the Brumble and Sina recovering coming back and winning the Rumble exactly are
these torn peck things. And you know from Cody, he suffered the injury
at Hell in the Cell in June and didn't come back till January. Here
Sina suffering the injury in October and he's back in January. That's unbelievable.
And this is after as it's been mentioned by Pav and you and so many
others. They went on television and told the fans not to expect to see
John Cena until the summer of two thousand and eight. So you're thinking,
no WrestleMania, the last thing you're thinking is rumble. Yeah, exactly exactly.
I would, Yeah, I would. The brumble was like, was
not even not even a thought. I'm just like, they're not going to
have Seena at all for you know, you know, for a year,
which you know, I don't. I wouldn't say I was heartbroken, but
I definitely wasn't happy. I'd rather see Triple H out for a year.
Oh yeah, yeah, that would be much better for him than it was
for Sena. Yeah. Yeah, as we saw when he came back in
two thousand and two and the hottest point of his career after his injury.
And then, I mean, it's it's a sad state of affairs, but
some of the most resonant stuff in wrestling in the past twenty years has been
when guys come back from injuries. Yeah, yeah, right, you need
to have an injury to come back from an injury. It's and have that
moment. And he won the rumble in his in his case recovering from the
torn quad in the two thousand and two rumble in the same building MSG.
So it was. It was. It was quite a turn of events that
led to see a re emerging before anybody expected him to. He tore in
the pack he finished the match. He did like this STF where he could
only use the STFU where he could only use like one hand. So it
looked it looked bad. Yeah, I'm I'm a little I was. I
was gonna tell you, I there are a lot of things on this show
that had me a little a little jarred, all right, Like theme music
for certain people was very jarring to me because it wasn't yet what you know,
the familiar stuff. Uh, And Randy Orton is still coming out to
hey, nothing you can say. It's one of the things, like I
thought he was. I thought that was gone by this point. I thought
I thought it was well gone. I mean, I don't even know what
Cody's theme song was when he came out. It's very uncomfortable. How far
away two thousand and eight really was. Oh no, the Missess theme song.
I didn't recognize it at all. This is very much pre I came
to play. And the fact that Sina was they was they still called his
move the fu they did. I was like, I thought we were gone.
I thought that was like a year after he a year after he he,
you know, won the title, it was changed to attitude adjustment.
I was very uncomfortable. I was like shocked that Piper and Snooko were in
this Rumble. Oh my god, I know they they came back around nine
and ten two and you know they had the matter with Jericho or that wrestled
me and me along with Steamboat. Yep, but no, there was just
something like, wait a minute. I was seeing these guys come out and
I was associating an era five six years after they started bringing back the old
guys. I thought that was like a two thousand and four to five three
thing. And here in two thousand and eight, here they are, and
Dugan is in the in the soup. He's on the show, but he
was in a qualifying match for the Rumble. So bizarre. It's so bizarre,
and Foley made it come back. I totally forgot about this run.
Not only that, but he's in the fucking he's in the match for a
long time, sure is. And he would go on to try out SmackDown
announcing and quit an absolute frustration at the micromanaging events on the headset. Wow,
this was Ada had a few more deals, a few more matches left
on the deal in two thousand and eight, and I thought he would try
acting and things. So he was in a weird place in his career at
the time. But so yeah, Sena suffers the injury, guts out,
the match finishes at you can see him sitting down after the bell gets around,
and he's just like screaming at the raft. Is Randy comming? Is
Randy comming? Because he's like an absolute agony. I can tell he can't
lift his arm. It's not sure what it is. At first people thought
it was just a shoulder injury, but then when it became clear was a
pectoral tear, it's like, oh my god, this is gonna take forever
to heal. So Orton comes out as planned, because this was the go
home raw for No Mercy two thousand and seven, which was to feature Sena
versus Orton in a last man standing match for seen his WW championship, So
there was a lot of plans in motion that this kind of threw off.
So as planned, Orton comes out and beats the shit out of Sina as
the go home angle, and I think he rkaos him on the table and
gets in his face and does like a ten count sort of telegraphing that he
can do this to him at theay per view and win the belt. And
scene is just fucking miserable all the time, dealing with the fact that he
can't lift his arm, and so they shoot that angle and then they end
up just using that as the pretense for why he was hurt, you know,
as if Orton heard him, not a botched hip toss and a match
with Kennedy yep. So they realized after the show, of course, that
this is not going to be our main event at the pay per view.
And this is a funny thing. I remember this too when the title came
off with somebody and then Jericho came back and won it at Cyber Sunday,
And remember that time period and I go seven or so, I forget what
them. Yeah, the injury was that caused the opening. I think it
was Batista, Yeah, ripping something off the bone, whatever the hell it
was, and it was it was like a huge at the time. They
were still running you know, cable pay per view, the traditional pay per
view was still the main revenue stream, no streaming, no you know,
for a flat fee a month you get every show, none of that shit.
So they still month to month, had to convince you to get into
a match and buy it. And so people watch the pay per view by
rate story closely, and we had a very good idea of like what was
drawing and what wasn't as a result of that, and so when that happened,
and there was this mystery on the week of the show, which seems
like a disaster as to who they would even put in the title match.
The fact that no one knew who was going to win the championship, but
someone was going to leave with the belt. It led to a huge increase
in buys for a show that wasn't one of the Big four or five.
And it turns out that's a huge hook in WWE. It's like, if
you have an injury that compromises your champion, you at least can know that
you're going to do good business on the pay per view where you side yep,
it's guaranteed. You know that something that it wasn't in the plans was
going to happen, and that's people are interested in that. People are very
very I mean I was interested in that. I didn't I don't think I
got the show, but I was very interested in that. It's like the
last bastion of like, didn't didn't you and I watch? Didn't we watch
the Survivors stories together? This is the one he faced Sean Michaels right in
Orton? Uh in seven sounds right? And and he sells the super kick
like a fucking champ. Oh yeah he does. And uh but I think
we watched that together. I feel like we did. I could be wrong,
but interesting. I don't quite know where I don't know. So so
they have this situation where people know whatever is going to happen at No Mercy
is actually going to be something that they didn't plan on, and it's sort
of this air of unpredictability, which is still like that last bastion of unpredictability
Left and Wrestling, Yeah, where you know that the planners, the bookers,
the bosses don't have any control over the situation either. And they ended
up doing a thing where Triple H, who is going to wrestle a Maga
on the show, ends up going three stages. He beats Orton for the
belt, beats a maga and then loses the belt back to Orton on the
same show, right right, plugging him into that position. And so Sina
goes off to have his surgery and it's back when they had live Monday Raw,
then they would do with live ECW on Sci Fi on Tuesday night,
Oh my God, and that would be live from the site of the SmackDown
taping. So the SmackDown, though it air on Friday night, was taped
on Tuesday. So Tuesday was their only chance to go live with as much
time as they could, to give the fans as much time as possible to
you know, adjust to the fact that Sina wasn't going to be on the
show, and in fact that his very long title reign. I think it
was the longest since Hogan was over. And so even though it sounds so
weird to have Vince McMahon go out in the ECW show to make this announcement,
it was simply the last chance they had to get in front of a
live television mass audience to they could have inserted in the speckdown. But then
you're waiting three days for no reason to tell people. So they tell people
and this is what Vince McMahon says when he hits the ring the night after
Sina tears his peck in October two thousand and seven, before night, I've
come before you tonight with bad news. On Monday Night, rob WWA champion
John Ceno suffered a debilitating injury, requiring immediate surgery to repair all completely torn
right pectoral muscle. You might ask yourself, how did this happen? Who
is responsible? Let's go back to raw. As a result of this injury,
surgeons have informed us that mister Ceno will be out of action anywhere from
six months to a year. A year, they said, Therefore, it
is my duty, is w w E jery anyway you inform a worldwide television
audience and to inform each and every one of you that has of this moment.
John Cena is no longer w w E champion. He waits, He
waits to see if a chance will developer someone. The championship is now vacant.
However, this to be rectified. The championship will not be vacant for
very long. This sun, do you know, Mercy, there will be
a w w A Championship match, and what you will declare a new w
W A champion, therefore ensuring they're no mercy. This Sunday history will be
made. Pretty dejected Vince making the announcement. This is the post getting his
hair shaved at WrestleMania twenty three chance too, No, yeah, right,
exactly. The hair is growing in with the part he's got that weird Yeah,
it's that weird, very very short hair. Yeah, yeah, I
remember. So there's the announcement and SNA goes under the knife utter Doctor James
Andrews out a Birmingham, Alabama who's cut on most of the big Superstars and
WW over the years. I wonder if he ever like, thanks, you
know, Vince McMahon for all the injuries, doctor Jim. That's been a
wonderful uh, I mean the pipeline of business for him. He probably he
he has probably bought like fifteen boats because of the amount of surgeries he's had
to do for WB superstars. And if you think about it, like some
of these injuries, if not correctly repaired, would be career ending. Yep.
So he's also given Vince some racehorses to ride a little longer, right,
and think about the millions Jim Andrews has allowed them to make off the
backs of these guys going at you know, giving new life to guys like
Austin and Edge with the fucking next next fusion surgeries? Are you kidding you?
Yep? I mean think about Austin no longer contributing after like two thousand,
Like you're kidding me. I mean, honestly, I was. I
kind of half believed it. I was at that at that stage. Yep.
So Sina gets the surgery and again they're out there on their own television
saying up to a year. So the fan can be forgiven for not expecting
Johnsen at the Royal Rumble to summit at least is it? I mean,
I assume you're going to get into it. But is it a complete work?
No? I mean he has a surgery, of course not he has
the injury, but like, is the is the ret a complete work?
Or did he just really kick ass at recovery? And did he you know,
are his genetics just absurdly amazing at healing? In another moment of lap
serendipity, this show is picked out of the clear blue sky by a member
of the Solar system in terms of the hopper. At the same time that
seenas sits down for the aforementioned interview with Chris van Vliet, where he talks
about this very thing in more detail than I can remember him talking about it
anywhere else. So here is the exact answer to your question. It's something
we're pretty good at here at TOLF exactly. So I completely respect James Andrews
who did the surgery, and Kevin Welkin who did help me with physical therapy.
They have to put a realistic timeline on their work, and that timeline
is based on the construct that you do physical therapy three times a week.
On their work, I would do physical therapy three times a day, and
I moved to Birmingham and my goal as a professional was to get back on
the field in a safe manner. So because I just did a lot six
days a week, you heal. You know, I was pretty much put
in a heel tank. I didn't have to go back. The reason they
say six months for a peck tear because a lot of people that tear their
pecks maybe they did it during recreational sport, or maybe they're a student athlete,
or they have other responsibilities. He's got families or whatever. You have
to split time I was like a physical therapy terminator. Show up for the
morning session, go get some food, show up for the noon session,
Go get some food. Show up for the afternoon session as they're closing.
All right, guys see in a few hours. And I just did that
for three months and everyone Doctor Andrews was fine, Kevin was fine. I
passed all my tests, and I passed it like two and a half months
in and the rumble was coming up and they're like, okay, we'll keep
it a secret. I don't want to advertise you because I don't even know
if you're going to be there. But then when everybody gave the okay,
they're like, we really, we really have the chance to keep something secret.
And it was only let out to like a few people. And if
you see the like once again, we only remember the moments. Tell me
anything I did in that, you're one bingo. But the action to win
was very simple. I remember that. Everybody remembers that because and the look
on Triple Ah's face. Yes, the action was very simple because it was
as it happens. We couldn't really plan anything crazy because we didn't want people
to tell people, to tell people to spoil the surprise. So it was
like, he's coming out, He's gonna win, that's happening now. Oh
so it was great. What does that mean the other twenty nine people in
the match thought somebody else was gonna win? Uh I didn't even Yes,
I think so wow. Yeah. I mean I came up to the gorilla
position at number thirty when like twenty eight came out, and I've been not
like WHOA. Usually they'll like nowadays, they'll kind of hide guys off site
or in a bus or something. I was in like a broom closet at
the garden and just came up to tourly ramping, walked right into a full
gear like ready to go, and we just knew that it was going to
be remedial and basic, but we were hedging on the surprise. They're not
going to really grade the art, and plus if we keep it basic,
we don't really test this out. So that gives me another month and a
half to build and heal and we're fine. So it was all for the
good of the moment. You satisfied with that answer, I mean that's uh,
well, what what I'm really I'm satisfied with that answer, but I'm
not satisfied with is the fact that he sounds like he's he's put himself in
a closet and doesn't want anyone else to hear that he's doing this interview.
Well it might be true. Maybe. Yeah, he's got that sort of
like this is my this voice. You know, he's like a voiceover actor.
He's got all the voice. I'm going to sit here and I'm going
to tell you exactly what happened. You see, I was on the toilet
as i am right now, and all of a sudden, I said,
you know what, I'm going to tear my back and then I'm going to
glue it back on with with gorilla glue, and we'll see what happens.
Do you want to call it gorilla glue? I don't care what you call
it. Would I be surprised in thirty years to hear someone say that Seene
actually got his hands on some highly experimental healing accelerators. No oh no,
yeah, he's trying about you're talking about that kind of shit too. Absolutely,
listen, listen. If if if you were standing next to Sena In
in the fall of two thousand and seven, you know, would you see
needle marks? Absolutely would you see needle moving, would you You might see
them moving in the wrong direction, but you definitely see you definitely see that
he had some some some pokage going on. That's you're trying to discredit his
hard work, and I won't stand for it. Hey, hey, you
know what, Listen, even when you needle yourself, you can have hard
work. Yeah. In fact, the whole point of it is it allows
you to work three times harder than nature would allow. But yeah, it's
that's where he did. He just moved in. I'm I'd love to hear
James Andrews tell the story of seeing him in the office three times a week
and where did he go to eat? And that's what I need to know.
These are exactly I don't want to know. I want to know what
Mongolian barbecue, Yes, Mongolian barbecue. You know, maybe on Fridays he'd
you know, he'd splurge and get a burger someplace and some you know,
some Alabama dive or whatever, right because he doesn't have to really worry about
his gut so much yet not yet. So yeah, I mean that that's
what he said he did, and I was grateful that the interview came out
when it did, so shout outs to Chris van Vliet, who I know
knows of the show, for posting that and uh and getting that interview in
because it helps this this mission quite a bit because that's a bit of detail.
I'm not sure we'd be able to easily retrieve or at least retrieve with
the the twenty twenty four eyes looking at it. So that's great. As
to the question of you know people in the ring thinking someone else was going
to win the rumble and seen it kind of being flum mixed at the question
now as like the answers know, like people knew that there was a number
thirty that was a mystery and that that number thirty was going to win the
rumble. People knew that, but what they didn't know except for a very
small circle, is who number thirty was going to be. And we know
this because of a few bits of testimony on the night that we're going to
get to here in just a moment. But at least the Figure four Weekly
said that that there was an expectation going into the show that Undertaker was going
to win the rumble. Wow, he was going to be a back to
backer, a back to backer I mean they still closed WrestleMania with him anyway
against Edge, So you can see that being only accelerated if that was the
plan, that that being only better if by the way you have you have
you just have you been on your computer at all? Have you seen this
fucking clip of John Ceena. I don't want to see it, Pasa.
I gotta be honest with you. It's so bizarre. I'm not into this
new bid to like this only fans. I'm not into this like marketing thing
he's doing is so bizarre. He's got the uh, he's got the envelope
for the Oscar whatever Oscar he's presenting. He's got it on like that's all
he's were. He's on his crush. You see the you see like the
the just all the everything. It's absolutely atrocious, so bizarre. It's so
bizarre, Like, dude, come on, just you're a fake athlete.
No, that's all you are. He's brand he's branding a movie. I
mean, he's gorilla marketing. Yeah, you want to talk about gorilla glue,
right, So so yeah, Taker winning was was talked about. It
talked about in you know the wrestling press is like an an expected direction.
It's not entirely clear. I think Prichard said like six weeks out they knew
to expect Sena in the rumble. I'm not sure exactly how far out they
knew that not only was Sena gonna be there, but that we're gonna put
him over in the match. I think it would be kind of hard,
honestly. Don't you to actually have him come in and not win? Do
you think there'd be a way to do that that wouldn't just piss everybody off.
You can't do that. I mean, you got to have everybody like
the same thing. When they did the surprise with Edge like a couple of
years later, didn't he go on to win, Yes, lose, I
don't remember, but you know you have to do that. If you're going
to have a surprise guy like that come out at number thirty or come out
in a late number, he's got to come out of a late number two
because, like he says in that clip, he's unsure how the peck is
actually going to hold up right exactly, and that that's the thing about coming
back early. There are examples. I know Purchard talked about Mark Merrill coming
back too early from an injury and immediately losing all the progress and having to
go back on the shelf. That's not what It's not worth it. If
you're going to talk the time to have the procedure. I mean, Jesus
Christ, just make sure you're not going to hurt yourself again immediately. And
so that was kind of obviously on their mind. But I like the idea,
you know, it's like, if we can get through just a couple
of and I don't know, he was kind of downplaying it. I thought
it was pretty hot action when he went in there and did I didn't think
it was a limit. No, I don't think so at all. I
mean he seemed like himself seemed he didn't seem like a slow or or or
reserved. He saw like John Cena when he got in there. Yeah,
yeah, this he's a kind of him. And Triple A says it too
when we hear from him on this match. They kind of I don't know,
there's like some criticism of the time that they seem to that seems to
have stuck in their craw that they're trying to address that the action between them
wasn't any good. It's like, what are you talking about? It's like,
uh, you know, it's not Look, look it's not it's not
a Hogan Warrior, but it's it's it's decent enough, and you know they
have that moment. And also, I mean, this is like fucking Steve
Austin talking about Summer Sam ninety eight. It's a great fucking match, absolutely,
you know, Like I don't. I'm not saying this Royal Rumble is
a great fucking match. But it's fine, and the moments are good and
Johnsena looks great. Yeah, what do you think about the rumble altogether?
Because I thought it was actually a pretty good rumble. It's fine, It's
fine, you know, I listen, there are some moments. I appreciate
rumbles that that that hold off on eliminations. I like a lot of guys
in the ring, and they definitely you know, I didn't I didn't remember
that at all being thing. I don't recall it being a thing for a
lot of a lot of rumbles, kind of like post two thousand, you
know. And I counted at one point there were thirteen guys in the ring
at one point, and I'm a big fan of that. Yeah, when
the ring was really full, I was like yes, there's nowhere to bump.
This is great, Yeah, exactly. And you know I thought it's
fine. You know, it's fine. It was it's a pretty good rumble.
It's not great, but it's a it's it's it's better than I would
have thought from that time period. I think two thousand and seven way better.
But this one was was totally, totally fine. I had some funny
moments and stuff, and you know, I appreciate those. And I also
like when guys are one of there are a lot of teases. I don't
like when when guys are just kind of brought in and then they get thrown
out without being teased to be thrown out at some point, Like I think
rumble teases are essential to make a rumble good, to make people think or
to like or false eliminations are very very important in a royal rumble to make
it just seem you know, like it slows it down but keeps the action
at a decent pace. You know, like when they just come in and
people get tossed at random without ever you know, being in jeopardy at one
point, it just sucks. It's it's it's lame. And they were they
were doing that for a long time, and they were kind of going back
to that. I mean, two thousand and seven was the first time I
remember them really going back to to long runs and people having long runs in
the Rumble. And you know, Jesus, I remember that being a very
big thing. Like remember twousand and seven Rumble was a very It was like
a big throwback to me of of of some of the rumbles that I loved
growing up. Yep, yep. And I like about this Rumble too,
is you have you have an actual well spread out star power arrangement, Like
they get that wrong way too often lately. I feel like in the past
few rumbles, like you know, you got six people anyone gives a shit
about, You've got probably three people anyone thinks can win. For God's sakes,
spread them out, yes, don't have them all come in after twenty
or like you know, there should be an undertaker, a Shawn Michaels,
a battista, a triple H caliber in the whole rumble. Like yeah,
I mean, listen, I I think you should always save your big guns
for the last the last ten for sure, Like you got to have you
know, you got to have a top guy in the ring, the whole
rumble. It doesn't have to be the winner. Sure, I mean,
you've gotta have somebody special, you know. But yeah, yeah, I
agree. I agree with that, like you should have it pretty well spread
out. But I do think you should save your big guns for the twenties
and up. Yes, I agree, I agree with that. I think,
you know, it's sort of like, like I said, there's six
people anyone cares about, there's three that can win. I'm talking about the
six, not the three. The three go at the end, I unless
you're doing the gimmick where number one is going to win this year, which
is always a good move too. So although I like to in fact that
Batista was in there for a long time, he was number eight what I'm
saying, Patisa's great exactly and an undertaker and Sean were there for for a
long time, it just didn't seem like there was this big chunk in the
middle of the rumble where like you had eight nine people come out that no
one gives a fuck about. They do that a lot, and both the
men's and women's rumbles lately. If you know what they do now is they
save it for a bunch of fucking like nobody cares who who's in the last
ten for this last Rumble was awful. It was like they got rid of
all their star power earlier on Yeah, No, No Go it was it
was spread it out right. Every three four entrance should be someone that you
know that people can get out of their seat for. And what's cruel about
this is you had the aforementioned you know that, the core, the Batista,
Sina, Triple eight, sean Undertaker, but then you also had the
next generation of guys in a nice glimpse at who they were going to be,
like seampunk. He comes out, you can hear it, you can
hear the people are going to get behind this guy. Cody is there,
which is just fascinating to see him considering where he would go to see him
in Triple h go at it? What that's something bizarre world man. So
it actually isn't the worst show to go back and look at in hindsight because
of the what would end up happening to the people in the rumbling. Yes
Pritchard, didn't he say on the Conrad Show that was six weeks they had
about to his memory of knowledge that seeing it was going to be back and
that they would put him over. So how did they handle it? Seena
mentioned that clip we played boss a spiral staircase, a ramp. Do you
know what he's talking about? Like a mini at the garden? Ah?
No, okay, that's fine. Well I don't think so hopefully, I
don't know. I don't know. He's what I will say, this is
pre it's pre renovations. So it's not the Guard Garden. You knew,
Yeah, you know, it's not that Yeah, because they they it was
twenty thirteen, I think when when everything changed. So and speaking of the
look of the building, I mean, if you're going to build a new
arena, for fuck's sake, can you at least do a signature roof.
Oh, honest to god, are you not building a roof that's instantly recognizable
on TV? I mean, that's so, it's so fucking it's so the
it's the greatest roof. I'll say, it's the greatest ceiling. And honestly,
it's one of the reasons why I like that fucking like I like that,
uh, the fucking the scope in Norfolk like because it's got that weird
looking at. Ceilings are essential to to an arena. But no one is
ever going to build an arena with the signature roof. Again, apparently they
all have to be this bottomless cavern of score Bride. Right, come on,
folks, they they retrofitted the garden. It looks great. It looks
as modern as it needs to look. So it's not. Don't act like
it has to look that fucking formulaic and that you know, modular yep to
be modern and handle modern demands. So there there is the situation, and
we turn to Hornswoggle's book. Dylan Possel came out with the boat his time,
and of course he factors in on this show. He does a skip
backstage with Vince. This is after the revelation Boss that indeed Hornswaggle was Vince
McMahon's bastard's son. That was the angle thoughts, Oh, I believe that
you know that that it's important that that the that the owner of the company
does have multiple children in the idea that we can then progress the story on
a on a level of excitement and originality. Yeah, I believe that best
practice requires things to maybe be circled back and right, you know, take
things offline, you know, create a disruptive value in different entertainers. So
how does this this storyline create a disruptive value. I believe the fact that
I that I birthed a little person adds value not only to him, but
into the prospects of my ability to redistribute my my, my life genes,
your life genes, well, yes, my my am not to be confused
with your guest genes or my genes. Are you what genes, my lee
genes or any other I mean, the genes that I have inside my testicles
provide any elements of surprise and excitement for a multitude of individuals and things about
nature. Oh so, I'm glad you said that, because I was wondering
how far it could extend. And if it is indeed, like every other
fucking thing you say, also relevant to things of the nature, have the
thing we're talking about, then then I can I can draw a clearer fence
around what we're talking about, which is nice when you say circle back,
what's what's that? Uh? The circle? Well, you know, because
we're we a lot of times. You know, the WW is a family
owned business, and so my family has been at the at the forefront of
the the the company and the television vehicles, and so we thought, maybe,
hey, you know what, let's let's kind of bring it back to
family. Let's circle back, let's bring it back. Let's kind of figure
out how we can again relate this company to a family, a family uh
orientation, right, a familial orientation. So you said you wanted to go
more towards a family style product. Yes, you meant having a new,
illegitimate family member. I thought that that would be the best way to not
only uh progress the McMahon family storyline, but also add an entertaining value to
to the television product. Got it. Yeah, So, in addition to
insight on the storyline that we mentioned and outside for that matter, okay,
I was afraid of that, Swaggle also gives us a quick glimpse as to
how the talent was processing the fact that there was this mystery guy in the
rumble and what they were and were not being told. This is from his
book Life Is Short and so am I. We knew there was something that
we weren't being told that night because the lineup for the rubble match backstage only
had twenty nine guys on it at the pre show meeting. Each year they'd
get all the people in the brumble together go through the key spots and eliminations
until they brought it down to the final few. Then they'd ask everyone else
to leave. That's got to be a moment, man, Wow, we
everyone to leave the room place. I'd let everyone to please, you know,
evacuate the the the temple we're currently in. Pleased. Vince needs to
talk to his top guys. Can everyone please leave? The top guys need
need needed an education, I'd assume, he writes that year. They then
told Batista, Hunter, and Kine what was going on, as well as
maybe mentioning it to Mark, Henry Chavo Junior and Carledo, all of whom
John eliminated as soon as he got to the ring. But for all I
know, they might have taken those three guys aside and only said, hey,
there's a surprise guy coming out at number thirty. He'll eliminate you as
soon as he comes out. From what I know, John got there after
the show started and hung out in a bus until just before he came out.
It's been tough to keep things surprising and wrestling in the age of social
media, but it's great when it happens. And on that night. It
made for one of those moments no one we'll ever forget. So that's a
perspective of the talent, you know, speaking This match is actually still going
on the Rumbled Nate World Rock talk about it. Hornschwager was never eliminated.
He was not. He never went over the top row. No, they
say they just qualified Finley. Yeah, but that had nothing to do with
we had a separate number than horn Swatt. Yeah, Hornschlocker was in the
match. He never got to toss over the top rope. So to this
day he's got a claim that's right. Is there anybody else in rubble history
they can say the same? I think so, no of I have never
I don't recall that at all. I mean except no, because he was
disqualified by not showing into the I don't say Savage potentially because he didn't show
at the ninety one Rumble, but I don't think so. I don't think
that that doesn't count. Like when the rumble, if you if you miss
your your spot, because you have the two minutes to come out, So
if you if you don't come out within that two minute window, then you're
eliminated by forfeit. But as somebody who entered the match and was never tossed
over the top rope. No that I believe Swoggle is the only one.
The Swags is the only the Swags. The Swags. Remember when we saw
him at Russell at Starcast. I do remember that at the whole Jelly came
swaggling by that there was something weird what happened there. He was talking to
Dave about something. You're talking to Dave Meltzer about a huge crowd that they
drew, and somebody else showed up, and Madden showed up. Ark Madden
showed up and like it was just it was, this is a weird thing.
And I had never felt more awkward at that, like around these people
like I have no reason to be here at all, tremendous. So that's
a bit of talent perspective on what was happening in the rumble that night.
But fortunately Jim Corderis, who went on to be an analyst for the Fight
Network and read a book and kind of open up about his experiences at WW
was one of the referees assigned to be in the inner circle for that whole
thing because you have to smarten up the refs because they have to, you
know, convey appropriate communication at the end of the rumble from ringside and their
earpieces to make sure everything's going as planned. And so when it came time
to smarten up, the four officials that had to know that it was going
to be John Cena. Oh yeah, Jimmy Corderis. Lets us know really
how it went down that night in New York. Well, what happened there
was we were all called to the meeting and there was twenty nine participants,
twenty nine of the participants in the rumble and the four referees that were there,
and we all went through the meeting until it came down to the final
four, and they kept referring to this thirtieth person as the surprise entrant.
They never named him. And once he got down to the final four,
which was the three remaining and the surprise, they asked everybody to step out
of the room except for the four referees and the three guys remaining, and
then they filled us in and they told us who that thirtieth participant was going
to be a big surprise because John Cena had an injury. He was supposed
to be out for the rumble, and even most likely out for WrestleMania,
and nobody expected him back, so it was a huge surprise. They didn't
want it leaking out to anybody. They swore us the secrecy. They said,
if this thing gets out, we're coming to everybody to find out where
the leak was. So, you know, I got asked several times during
the day by the other referees, hey, man, who's a surprise,
And I'm like, dude, I ain't telling you. You should be surprised
like everybody else. I take a little pride in the fact that I didn't
spill the be but it was kind of cool because it ended up being John
Cena, as we all know now. And the funny part was we were
out at the ring, so we didn't see this happening. We just heard
from the other guys who were in the back waiting to see this thirtieth guy
was going to be. And you know, here's this limbo that pulls up
on the fifth floor of Madison Square Gardens where the arena level is. A
guy gets out and he's covered in a blanket, you know, and they,
I first didn't know who it was, but then they saw his feet
and they saw the pumps, the Rebok pumps and they we know who number
thirty is. Oh my god, I don't believe that that's funny. If
it is true, though he didn't pay attention to that little detail, But
yes, there it is. You know, they they tell everybody at that
moment. And so to Hornswoggle's question, I guess the other guys who weren't
in that final three were told that just some generic number thirty is going to
throw you out and weren't smartened up as to who exactly it was. But
that's how people had eyes on John Cena to the degree they did that night,
and how the message was communicated mentioned. It was reported in figure four
and other publications an undertaker was slotted potentially to win this rumble, and that
a hunter was put back into the rumble. That there was some back and
forth about whether Triple H would be in it, and that was another change
of plans. And then as soon as they decided to do that, Sena
phoned the office to let them know that he actually might be eligible and ready
for the show. Wow, it was. It was a lot of back
and forth. Now we know we end up with a triple threat. Magic
media right with Sena Orton and Triple h and you love this one because Orton
triumphs. I you know, I was a big fan of that at the
time. I was a big fan of that because I mean I wrestled Manning
you're talking about, that's right. Yeah, Yeah, I was a big
fan of that because I I thought this was such a great run for him,
and I thought it was portally. Vince was totally in love with the
Randy Orton character at this point in time. Yeah, Like, I thought
it was a great run and I actually didn't want it to end, uh
Like, because then if you remember, oh, he gave the night after
WrestleMania, he gave a fucking great promo. It's it's funny the things that
that of the modern era that stuck with me. Hey, it's because it
was good stuff. That's the bost Ever. Yeah, he came out and
that's when he declared it was the Age of Orton, and I was like,
motherfucker. It just really it worked. It clicked also that Monday,
I remember it was like things felt unpredictable again because that that Monday, Uh
Gibble and Bits for some reason decided he wanted in on the world title picture
and it was like things are coming out of left, out of nowhere,
like like you didn't know what the fuck was, Like what why is GBL
like even you know, because it led to that that fatal four way match
at at whatever the I don't know if it was backlash or not, but
whatever the next maybe it was Fatal four Way. Maybe that was the name
of the pay per view, god, but whatever it was, it was
just a very It was a lot of fun. It was very exciting,
and I remember being really pissed off that they took the belt off of him
the pay per view after WrestleMania, because I was like, he just came
up with that incredible that incredible description of his title run. The age of
Orton's so stupid, like let's let it go on, let it go on
to at least Summer Slapt there. You know. It was so fucking money.
Yeah, that was Yeah. I was a big fan of Randy Orton
at that time. I was really happy that he got that that run effic
you know, because he was one of those guys like I remember, like
when Jericho won the Undisputed Championship and they started putting him over guys that,
you know, to really kind of get him over as champion, and you
know, there was just stuff. It just didn't really work as well.
And I felt maybe I wonder too, if he just didn't have enough time
as champion to really, uh feel like a real champion. And but Orton,
they really let it play out and let it build and build, and
he was like he really came to feel like a true deserving champion. Yes,
and then they fucking took it away from him right away from And that's
that's the story of his career. You know. It's like, yeah,
at the time, they've kind of closed in on a Randy Orton that feels
like a top guy. They they they fuck it up in a way or
he fucks it up in a way that when they try to come back to
it, it's like, no, we've already seen this, Like he's not
that guy. Yeah, we can't believe that he's going to have a legacy
title reign right now because there's always some bullshit. Well, I mean,
think about it too, like he never got that fucking every time with him,
you know, he gets that he beats uh, he beats Benoit at
that Summer Slam, and all of a sudden, he's he's he's the guy,
and and he gets it. He has it for a month before he
drops the Triple H and has that awful babyface turn that you know completely killed
him and derailed him for a while, and then and then it takes him
until two thousand and seven to get everything back, like he's always having huge
drug and attitude issues in five too. Yeah, that was even thinking about
later. It's like the Rumble thing, you know, like everything derailed him
there and he was supposed to beat Ray and but Eddie Guerrero getting fucking dead
and all that shit, Like there was just so much like he just never
really got that run. And so when he finally got it, I was
like, just let him, let it play out. Let it play out
for a long time. There's no need to rush this off him. Yeah,
but you know, not that they brush it off him, but they
still rush it off him. Absolutely. Yeah, it's true. And I
wonder, you know, if Mania looked any different if Sina went against Orton
one on one or Triple H went against Orton one on one. I can
see why it was triple threat and a few reasons. One because you know
Orton was going to go over, but two because you know, you don't
know how far and hard scene is going to be able to go. So
nice to be able to rely on Orton and Triple H to carry most of
the match. I don't remember being a particularly great match or anything, but
it was that finish was impactful. Yeah, it was what was it?
It was? Wasn't Triple H. Was Triple H going for the pin after
pedigree and then had the running kick to the head, Orton punted him and
then pinned Sina. Yes, I think, yeah, yeah, it's good.
Great finish, great finish. So in terms of the game, ww
I think their BT sport at least that's what the watermark that's on it on
the YouTube clip I found did an air to segment where Triple H is sitting
with Shawn Michaels. You could tell it's like an NXT taping because Sean has
the NXT hat on and they're doing one of those watch back you know,
put him in a film room kind of things. Yeah, yep. And
Triple H his stream of consciousness now on the outcome, because of course he
was the one that seemed to tossed out to win the in two thousand and
eight, getting a huge reaction I think knowing that people will believe in this
moment that like, oh, like I see where they're going with this,
right, Triple H is going over. There's a moment with me at fully
like all this really cool stuff happens. But in my mind, I know
where this is really going, and it's really going to the John Cena moment
of Sina coming back, and I'd like them not knowing that John's coming back.
This is super early you talk about an injury return. John came back
like in half the time he was supposed to come back from neck surgery,
next surgery. They didn't tell me. I didn't know he was coming in.
Yeah, epic mind blowing moments they hit him all day. He walked
out and like this is the garden. There are so many moments for me
in the garden where there's like things that happen where like you can remember in
your mind going like holy cow, this is incredible. This is one of
them, like Sina that that moment of right before they were counting us down
and I knew Sena was about to come out, Like I remember thinking,
like God, this place is going to go mental when he walks out here
and they did this is the kind of stuff that you as a performer when
you know it's about to take place. For a guy like it's just such
a cool moment. I know firsthand. We just talked about it. What
this is like that moment where you come back from that injury and you have
it all sitting there and you're going to get this opportunity to blow the roof
off the place. But no matter who you are and how big of a
performer you are, there's that moment where you go, well, I hope
they give a crap when I walk through that curtain. So knowing what he
was experiencing in this point, for me was there's a ton of anxiety.
Oh my god, you know what I mean? Are they going to care?
How are they going to react? And how am I going to perform?
Is everything going to hold up? Them? Coming up? And you're
coming off from an injury nine times out of ten, especially with the first
one, and for John, I think it's the first time he was you
know, that was one of us things like John never got hurt. And
of course now there's a chink in you know, yeah, in Superman's armor
and that again mentally, what that does to you very difficult. I knew
how this would feel the John. But I remember Taker one time telling me
about anxiety that he felt before match, and it was like with mind blowing
to me that Taker felt anxiety, Like I was like, are you kidding
me? Like he I remember just remember him talking about it with me and
me thinking like to make sure, I would have never in my wildest dreams
imagined that he had that feeling before he walked out there and all his doubts
and everything else. Because to me, you know, every single time I
stood in the ring and watched his music kid walk out, I got chills
and like the reaction was massive. I would have never had a doubt my
mind about him doing anything, but yet he did. And that's the human
part of the performance where but it doesn't dawn on you until later in your
career where that puts you with people. I think that's helped me in with
NXT as well of being able to put my head in performance a little bit
and go like, look, it happens to everybody. And again there's the
point at the sign of the WrestleMania like you know the it's funny now fans
make oh they're going to give you the point of the sign, like as
if this is a this hogy thing that has happened over the years, Like
we tell everybody to point at the sign. We don't tell anybody to point
at the sign. This is what everybody wants to do, Like you want
to have the moment that you watched when you were a fan of the man.
I get that opportunity to point at the sign at WrestleMania. I get
that opportunity to be the guy that is going there. And you know what
this feels like for John right this is the stamp on the moment of your
back and I can't he can't tell you what he says right here either.
So yeah, they don't tell anybody to point at the sign, of course
not. I mean, come on, why do you why do you have
to say that. I know that it bothers you, that it's fucking cheesy,
and you still do it, But why do you have to come up
with a story about how we don't, like you're really going to make the
talent pretend they want to point at the sign, like I don't. Nobody
wants a point at the sign, nobody, And if they do, they
they're doing it in my opinion, which doesn't count for anything. I understand
they're doing it because it's bad form to not want to point at the sign,
because you're gonna tell me that Ronda Rousey fucking point at the sign.
Oh so awkward. So she's like worried about where the camera is right,
and she's pointing it like weir and she does like three times. And that's
when she's pointing at it like a whaler wilds a harpoon. Right, what
is this? What is this? Equal police? We find you in here,
fucking thing? Ums down, stop it. Yes, you can have
pyro go off around the sign, but to point at it and to look
at it like, oh my god, my desk. Can have the pyro
around the sign. You can have your fucking camera angles where you have the
winner on the fucking corner, and you can have the sign in the background,
but do not have them point the sign. Ninety seven ninety eight oh
one, can you picture Steve Austin point at the sign? You know why?
You know why they didn't do it. There was no fucking sign.
If there was, you don't do it because if you're a big enough deal
to win the rumble in headline WrestleMania. WrestleMania should be grateful to have you.
You shouldn't be grateful to have WrestleMania be a big enough deal that,
Yeah, of course I'm going to WrestleMania. What the fuck? And in
fact this is just the beginning. Like the Wrestlmania sign being up there didn't
start happening until I believe, WrestleMania twenty twenty. Yeah, because they wanted
to have one longer campaign. The diamond. Yeah, they had it hanging
since November. I think I don't the rafters to promote it, and it
was effective that year, making Manius even like an even bigger deal because they
were signaling it the whole time. But yeah, this is I don't buy
that explanation at all at all that these people want to do it. Maybe
like two people want to do it. Here's the thing. Then if they're
not doing it on there, if they're not doing it because you told them
to do it, tell them to not do it, right, say you
know what, you're fucking fired. But now there's all that pyro up there.
Remember that they let the fire, they let the sign on fire one
time. That's how out of their mind they were about doing it give me
a break. Yeah, we have Pyro up there, but we don't tell
anybody to do it. We just have Pyro up there in case somebody wants
to do it. We don't draw attention to the fact that it's a you
know, WrestleMania sign. So that's that's such a triple H thing I'm noticing
over the years as he does press conferences and kind of makes himself available as
Paul right instead of triple H. That's his thing. Like there's these little
things that he knows are valid criticisms, and like he tries to eat them
alive. When he's talking. He tries to like, you know, after
wrestled Ania last year's like, you know, it never ceases to amaze me
of people always question the story. And then we get to the story and
he's tinting his fingers on the table, and it's like these little things he
doesn't want to he doesn't want to actually state the criticism, but he does
want to try to extinguish it well at the same time acting like he didn't
hear it. It's, you know, there's nothing more annoying than somebody tries
to answer criticism but feels like too big of a deal to acknowledge that they
heard it, that they're that much of a loser that they're reading people's comments
and shit, shut up game, shut up game. So that's his feeling
on the night and his recollection of everything that that went down. So,
I mean, with this kind of a superhero comeback, right, this kind
of huge moment, you have to think people like got over their scene of
hate, and the next night on Raw when he took the microphone, they
were just elated. Oh I'm sure they're fucking miserable that he's miserable put in
all this incredible work to be back there for them. You know, Nah,
can you hear that? Ladies and gentlemen, I am here tonight to
answer a question that's put on everyone's mind. What delivery? How could this
be possible? Yes? In October two thousand and seven, I suffered an
injury to my pectoralis muscle, which requires surgery. Sounds like a AI voiceover
you'd us on a TikTok lay, but they says this sucks. He really
thought they were going to respect them. I ain't even gonna lie, guys,
that's music to my ears right about now. Yeah, Jess fucking gag
me. The doctors said I would be out for about twelve months. That
is one year, which means which means that for the first time in my
career, I would have to watch from the bench the greatest spectacle in sports
entertainment history, and that is WrestleMania. And what now now? In my
absence, a new champion was crowned, new contenders were put in place,
and for the WWE, life goes on. But in a hospital bed,
my life was crumbling, and with each day my WrestleMania dreams faded further and
further away. So in the last second of the final hour, I made
a choice. I made a gamble. I let it all ride. Yes,
I risked my career, Yes, I risked my health. Why for
a chance, just for one damn chance to maybe and they fucking mate it
amazing, maybe get an opportunity to once again go to WrestleMania. Oh shut
up. Maybe it was luck, maybe it was skilled, maybe it was
both. But ladies and gentlemen, the impossible has happened. I am back,
I am the winner of the twenty first Royal Rumble, and damn it,
I'm going to WrestleMania. They're overjoed. It was a little bit.
It was a weird time. It was weird, so very yeah, it
was such a weird time. It was a weird time that that there was
such a a a a vocal backlash to him, and uh where yet they
still fucking they kept it going. There was just something impossibly corny about like
why is he talking like that like a robot? Like what is he doing?
Like why does he had that delivery? I don't understand it. It's
it's like it's one or one way or the other with this guy where he's
like so a boolliant that he sounds like a cartoon character the whole time.
I don't understand who thinks that's going to connect with anybody, But there he
is saying, pectoralis muscle. Oh you know, it's gotta love that.
Pectoralis the whole thing. And look, nothing but respect for the fact that
he pedro pectorals, nothing but respect for the fact they put in the hard
work to get back. But can we not make it sound like you rose
out of the wheelchair after someone said you're gonna be paralyzed for the rest of
your life. It's it's a muscle tear, like Sewan Michaels did in two
thousand and two, like Kevin Nash did in two thousand I thought, then
Shawn Michael's like he he was at the he had a wheelchair after tripple to
beat the shit out of him, and then he comes out like out yep,
yeah, and he gets out of the wheelchair and danced around like a
fucking buffoon. I mean he in one night. He turns it into like
a really cool moment into something that's like like yeah, you know, like
self congratulatory, like you got to do that kind of thing quietly, like
a like a stealth fucking you know, like a badass like I'm still here,
you know, as opposed to like I did it like I'm I'm your
hero, Like I don't know, just doesn't work for me, and I
don't think it'll worked for anybody else at the time, because you have this
moment and then it immediately goes right back to people being like that's the art
of the baby face promo. To me in the modern age, it's it's
like, how how good are you at reading how the fans are going to
react so that you say things that avoid the land mines? Yes, you
avoid the triggers. That's what Cody's so good at. I got to give
it to him. He knows how to avoid saying the things that people can
be like, oh fuck this guy, you know, like stop. Yeah,
No, he's he's very good at that because I mean he's been able
to navigate, navigate away from from from any sort of hate or disdain.
Like last year. You think about when with the Sammy's Ain thing, like
he was able to just really glide along with that, right example, that
could have that would have eaten Seena live right if he did what Cody did
in that context. Yeah, yeah, he perfectly. He did it perfectly
so that nobody nobody, nobody booed him and nobody hated him. And he
never comes off as somebody that's like, you know, holier than now or
two weak. And I know there's a lot of people that don't like Cody
and they can't stand the sound of his voice. And that's fine. I'll
tell other people in the building. Yes, right. It matters to me
is if he's able uh people in the building to work the microphone out of
whether the people don't create the sense of rejection. There's always going to be
people at home disliking the top babyface, that that's that's to be expected,
and there's nothing wrong with that, But is the babyface good enough to make
sure that that doesn't bleed into the actual reaction of the masses when he's before
the people, because that doesn't serve anybody really a Sena. It was such
a it was such an albatross around Sena that eventually they kind of crafted this
story that that's part of the fun of Sena is how people how he's so
divisive. But all that is is a capitulation. All that is is admitting
defeat that you can't manipulate the people like you thought you could. Same thing
with Roman Reigns as a babyface, same exactly. Yep. So uh,
you and I can remind everybody else that John Seina is their hero, has
always been their hero, and will always be their hero. God, what
a great bit that was. That was right smack deb in the middle of
the time period, right the year before. Unbelievable. So they did.
They did a lot of qualifiers this year for the Rumble. They had Umaga
beat Jim Duggan, who was still doing occasional appearances for the company in this
era, which is easy to forget because that needs to happen. I know
Snitzky beat Drew McIntyre on a house show. This is all on Wikipedia.
Triple H did a match against Rick Flair to qualify, but it got decued.
So they did this little storyline where Triple H was no longer allowed to
be in the Rumble because of that, and then afterwards he Triple H,
I guess, had a fit and started destroying the set on Raw, and
so Vince putting Triple H back in give him a second chance if he could
defeat three people, and he beat Snitzky, Mark Henry, and Steve Regal
in a gauntlet match on Raw win Entry. Again, there's a reference made
during the call to the fact that, you know, Triple ahch had to
go through health to get into the match, and Snisky has to stay in
the match too. Oh, I know he's in there. It wasn't his
fault from what I understand, I do. I did hear that, I
did hear someone else wanted to book him. I want to talk about Jim
Duggan in this time period. It is a rare opportunity to offer up a
little anecdote that sticks with one that reads his book around this very curious run
he had in WWE, and I'll just leave it, leave it here.
I'll just state it and let it sit all right. When I got there,
he writes, I was eager to find out what i'd be doing.
He's talking about when he got to a shot in London, not the company,
but a particular event, because I figured that if they were bringing me
this far and even having me cancel an event to do it, it must
be somewhat significant. I waited in the catering area while Vince and his creative
and TV people had their production meeting. After it was over, Barry Wyndham
before a wrestler who was now at WB Agent came over to me and said,
Jim, we're going to have you working with Paul Burchhill tonight and he's
going to beat you in about forty five seconds. I sat there, stunned,
and I said, you know what, Barry, I'm not going to
do it. I came all the way over here, and I don't mind
being used to build up these other guys, but this just isn't right to
pull me out an event on a weekend I lined up months ago for this.
He's talking about some charity golf tournament or something that he had to cancel.
So said my old ass home, I don't care. Barry nodded and
said, well, you got to tell Vince. I said I would,
and I went to Vince's makeshift office. I was waiting outside and I was
pacing back and forth. Finally a guy came out of Vince's office, and
you could tell I was pissed. A lot of Vince's personal security team was
made up of ex cops, and I've always gotten along with cops, so
I was friendly with a bunch of them. One of the main security guys,
Jim, came up to me, and he could tell I was steaming.
We talked and I was cordial, but I was still pretty ticked off.
After a few more minutes on the production, one of the production guys
came out and said Vince would be with me when he had a minute,
and I said, very deliberately, I ain't going anywhere. I'll be right
here. My temper was snowballing, and Jerry Briscoe walked over to try to
smooth things over, but I wasn't about to be smoothed over. I was
getting madder and madder When I finally got to see Vince, I walked into
the office with Barry, and Vince was texting loud someone I'm very I died,
Jim, pal what's going on? Berry said, Hey, Vince,
you want me to stay with you. Vince looked up, surprised and said,
no, I've known Jim for nearly thirty years. No problem. Come
on in, Jim, sit, now take a load off. I just
have to finish texting this. Yeah. Yes. He focused on his texting
what for a few seconds. Then I asked if he asked if I knew
how to spell a couple of words. I won't say what they were,
Jim, do you know how to spell tits? Do you know how to
spell uh? Uh uh? Extramarital fornication? No, I don't, Vince,
but we're all still looking for it, me too, bell hashtag.
Oh boy. I won't say what they were, the words he was asking
me to spell for his texts, because Jim writes, I don't want to
be disclosing anything he might have been corresponding to someone else. Wow, But
I didn't know how to spell them anyway, So I said, still in
kind of a huff. No, this thing drives me crazy? Do you
text much? Jim? Are you a Dougs? Are you? Are you?
Are you a Texter? Do you text? Are you on the the
the smartphone bandwagon? Do you believe in intelligent phonography? Hell? Are you
Doug Boat? Do you want to Maybe that'd be a new gimme for your
Doug boat? Huh? Is it a heat heat? It could be.
Is it a whole holt in a heat heat and a stick your fucking wood
up your ass type thing? Yeah? How about that? Uh? Are
you reading your texts again? I think this is a good opportunity, Vince.
Why don't you keep telling Doug in if he's going to come in here
with an attitude where things might be headed, you know you don't have to
go hard, but just let him know. Jim, I don't know what
the fuck is you want right now, but I can tell you this,
and I mean this with all sincerity. I don't care. I don't give
a shit. It's back on his shit. He's back on his bullshit in
that fucking cast. I'm not interested in what it is that you have to
say to me because I've never really liked you, I've never cared about you,
and I've always thought, what can I do to make this guy look
stupider than he is? You look like you have a disability, because because
you've always looked like you have some sort of mental mental crack in your brain,
all right, and now it's more than ever because you're a dumb,
fucking prick. You don't want to know something. I knew when I flew
you out here that you were not going to do what you want, what
I want I told you to do. I did that on purpose, Yes,
all right. I knew that you had something scheduled, something important.
I knew that there was something you didn't want to miss. I said,
you know what, that's a great opportunity to fuck with duggan to fuck with
that oath totally true. I don't care. It's to me, it's is
exactly what happened. And I said, I'm going to make him fly out
to fucking England so that there is and I'm not going to even use him
for anything remotely important. I'm gonna make him look like a bitch, And
if he doesn't want to look like a bitch, I make him look like
a bitch anyway, because he can't go back home and do that fucking thing
he wanted to do. So who's the winner here, Dugan? You know
me? Yes, because I'm texting with a female. Oh who's gonna who's
gonna jump on my jump? All right, I'm going to have my cock
in hand, Dugan, and I'm going to be putting it inside another female's
vagina. I don't care if you're sitting here or not. I'll fuck her
anyway. But one thing I can tell you that won't happen is you won't
be going to that thing you want to go to. I want to come
in here. You know you have audience with me, don't. You're not
gonna have audience with me. You're gonna be my audience as I fucked the
shit out of this fucking broad Okay, I got to step in. It's
not April seventh quite yet. But look, I mean he beats beneath the
surface of everything, you know. But well, I'm watching this awaight rumble
and suddenly there he is backstage with Swaggle. God, isn't it like a
whole different world? It is. It's so it's a bizarre thing. It
it feels like a different time. I mean, it is a different time,
but it just it's so bizarre. And then when you see Ashley masorrow
us her soul, God, you know, and the whole Playboy interplay with
Maria, it's so heart wrenching to see her in that, Like just it's
so depressing. It's so reality, you know what it is. It's like
Maria. You know, Ashley did that affidavit for the concussion lawsuit. That's
just recounting all these horrific things that she said happened to her when they were
in Kuwait in two thousand and six. I mean, you know, drugged
to the point of being immovable and being raped by someone in military personnel.
I mean, I don't know she called him an army doctor, but I
mean just a horrible, horrible circumstance, and she, you know, basically
died of suicide as far as him can tell. Years later, and now,
you know, with what's happened with this lawsuit against Vince, people were
visiting the things that she said and people coming out to you know, support
what she said or add color to what she said or extrapolate on it.
It's a very messy and sad and ugly situation. But to go back and
watch this rumble where Maria is about to be in Playboy, and Ashley had
been in Playboy the year before, and they're having basically like a Playboy based
storyline, so stupid where she's like, you know, convincing Maria that she
should be in Playboy. It just hits so different now, so differently,
and a lot of the things that the announcers say, I don't know.
I mean, I've always watched Vince WWE and I've always known that he's micromanages
and' but you know now that he's been gone long enough that like a new
voice is kind of a new prevailing voice has taken over the broadcast. You
do notice like there's no way Michael Cole said that there's no way Coachman isn't
just sitting there waiting for precise verbiage to be delivered to him from US McMahon.
Not to say Coachman at the top of his head would be any better,
but you can just tell it's I don't know, it's just now so
much more obvious that the voice of Vince hovers over everything that used to happen
in this company. Yep. And it really is storylines that like are designed
to dramatize his peccadillos. Yes, right, designed to put his psychosis on
the screen, and you know, you come up at the beginning, middle,
and end to make it look like a cogent storyline, like it was
presented not just to get him his kicks, but you know, to actually
advance careers. But well, let's be honest, it's always been about him
getting his kicks. Have you ever seen the clip of from seven of him
berating Ashley backstage on top? I probably did. I bet I haven't seen
him a long time. I mean, I think this is an appropriate time
to revisit it. I have sound of it, but if you can pull
it up on your side on YouTube. It resurfaced now in the context of
people you know, and by the way, this epidavit is out there a
lot of years and you know they got hurt. Well not they got her,
but she sent an email apologizing for being involved with the lawyer, and
you know how that works. You know, you cross the company and then
you regret doing it because it's not going anywhere, and so this thing kind
of died down. People didn't really get very activist about it. But now
that Vince is out of power, it's it's a lot easier to get more
animated about this without consequence the same kind of consequence, And so this one
surfaced. This one surfaced again. Just just type Ashley Masorrow Vince McMahon into
YouTube and you get a video that says, n instinct man brates Ashley Masorrow
over spilled coffee for two uncomfule minutes. Is that it exactly right? And
now when you hit play, I'm gonna need you to go to a particular
time code after Matt Hardy leaves the frame. Matt Hardy, by the way,
somebody I believe that a dated actually Massorrow for a minute. Go to
fifty seconds. So this so they do a bit where Vince is backstage.
This is Maniacal Psycho two thousand and seven ECW. Vince yes, and she
accidentally bumps into him and he spills coffee on his jacket. And then Matt
Hardy leaves the scene. And then when you're ready, I'm ready, I'm
gonna play the audio for the Solar System. Will you play the video?
Three two one play. I'm terribly sorry mister Rannel had to try a claim
to I wasn't meant to do that, didn't you? Of course, I
didn't. It was an accident. I promise. I feel terrible. You
meant to do that? No, I didn't. Of course you meant to
do that. Of course I didn't. Double mean what you did? What's
coffee? Okay? Yeah? How do you really feel? I feel terrible?
I want to help or I just want to get into how do you
How do you feel? I feel bad? Feel bad? Yeah? Of
course it was an accident. I would never want to do that. It
was how bad you feel? Terrible? You know? I hate to do
this. You're suspended? What I'm suspended? Suspended? Which which you're suspended?
Yours? Your girl crying out? You're thoughts? I mean that,
I mean it's it's disgusting, actually, like I mean, I don't know.
She looks legitimately disturbed after this happened to her, and this is this
is a year after that happened to her in Kuwait. Oh, and this
is according to Paul London, who used to go out there, and we
did a couple of podcasts about this. You know, Vince would be constantly
propositioning ah her because I don't know. I don't think it's too far now
to discern to connect fact patterns such to say that Vince got particularly interested in
the ones that were in Playboy. Of course, right you think about Oliver
Tory, Oliver Sable. I imagine that he hand picked them, Emily Feinberg,
m you know, I imagine that he was the one who said,
yeah, you know what, I think you should do it, or assign
it to them or whatever. I just think after they did it, he
became very interested in them and of course propositioned them constantly. And I saw
you naked, and I believe I own that now, and then to do
essentially horrifying after she, you know, because you know, the thing is
everyone says that she like rejected the advances, not in a way where she
was like, you know, so you know, so in your face about
it. They fired her. They you know, she was able to thread
the needle carefully enough that you know, they kept her working for the company.
But it's just constantly, constantly these suggestions that maybe we should, you
know, take this further, knocking on hotel room doors and such, and
then you do this, I mean, he just looked completely disturbing. You
think he was, yeah, and it's all like all Vince is so good.
Vince's it's called method acting, and yeah, I don't think. I
don't think that there was. And he's not studying somebody else to get the
nothing I know, it's it's not Stanislavsky at all. It's like we've been
I don't know, it's not like we haven't been telling you for ten years
in our own way. It's just I mean that actually really made me feel
uncomfortable honestly watching that, like shing what we know, knowing what we know.
And I also think too, it's not even just knowing what we know,
but in this in this era where it's it's just really come to light
about you know, the the the how men of power would just take advantage
of of women of you know, if they could, if they if they
could do it, I mean if they didn't, if they couldn't do it,
you were you were you know, completely shamed, you know, like
you were you would be treated like garbage like she just was. I mean,
I don't I can't imagine that she's that good of an actor either.
We're just telling stories here, pal, don't be a mark. Don't be
a mark. I mean that's the thing, like they're telling stories in in
wrestling is really just a nightmare sometimes like it's so the only story we seem
to be telling is Vince McMahon fetishes, I mean and then and and it's
not only that. It's like there's not a sexual fetish of stories up sex.
It's fetishes of power. It's kiss my ass, it's all that shit.
It's not even that. It's also just like this is the way.
It's kind of that that bullying that was in that that's kind of the nature
of this business, you know, there's always this bullying going on, Like
why like in no in no way these guys signed up for a business where
they could still act like they were in high school without anybody ratting on them.
In no other business could you treat anybody like this the way that they
now I'm not talking about And in the affidavit, when this happens to her,
yeah, the one female member of roster that she calls out as being
I guess the shoulder to cry on, or at least somebody that was concerned
enough about what she was reporting having happened to her that she you know,
offered like guidance as to what to do. Was Maria In like less than
two years later, they're in the ring at the Royal Rumble, exchanging dialogue
about how Maria should really do Playboy. Yeah, it's a it's a it's
a powerful thing, you being exposed. I don't know if we need to
hear from you at this particular point in times, sir, Thank you said
it said enough. Reality is what it is. It's reality, fantasy is
reality. And wrestling hello, yes, there is no such thing as you
know acting. I love how we always say like the best wrestlers are the
ones that take their own personality and turn it up to one hundred. But
somehow that doesn't apply when people are acting like complete fucking psycho, murderous,
fucking you know what I mean, sexually perverted exactly. I mean, that's
not the real them. Sopaths. Yeah, that's not the that's not them
turned up to one hundred in that case. So they were qualifying matches,
is what I'm trying to say. For the two thousand and eight Royal Robo
there were also there's also qualifying evidence as well. Here's a quick list from
a from Wikipedia. Snitsky beats Drew McIntyre, Hardcore Holly beats Trevor Murdoch on
a show Morrison beats the Morrison in the Miz, beat Jimmy wang Yang,
What's that Who? Beat Trevor Murdock, Hardcore Holly just to fucking wait,
Morrison in the Mizz and a tag match beat Jimmy wang Yang and Chin and
morn a SmackDown ECW Howse Show to both qualify as a tag team. Hornswaggle
and Foley beat the Highlanders and a tag match on Raw to qualify. Jamie
Nobles Jesus Christ beats Chuck Palomo and SmackDown to qualify. Cody Rhodes beats William
Regal on a Raw House show to qualify. Carlito and Santino as a team.
Beat d H Smith, David boy Smith Junior and Super Crazy on Raw
House Show to qualify. You know, I wrote down to in my notes.
As I was watching, I was like, you know, think about
this. There's Carlito, and you think about what he accomplished in his run
in we and now he's he comes into the rumble as a legend. He
is a legend. Yes, that's what we see, you know, like
people cheer for him like he accomplished something they really really do, you know,
but he did shit. It's like cheering for Virgil. Honestly, I
know, but like God Almighty, I mean, at least here's the thing.
At least Virgil had memorable moments. Yeah. I can't think of anything
really, not only memorable moments, but memorable moments where he where he triumphed,
triumphed. The only thing that I can tell you off the top of
my head that I remember vividly is is him getting beat up by Hulk Hogan.
Yeah, WrestleMania twenty two. Yeah, spitting an apple in Piper's face.
Yeah, Like that's a signal they were taking him seriously. But that
was like the end of it. I remember nothing else about him. But
now he comes out and people go crazy for him, like he just fucking
saved the world. Michael's beat Trevor Murdoch, So Murdock getting two bites at
the apple. Both times you mentioned already Triple beating Snitzky, Henry and Regal
in a gauntlet match to qualify, and Punk beating Chavo Guerrero on a house
show in January twenty six to qualify as well. What do you think about
qualifying for the Rumble? Now? They just do I declare, and you
can't fill all thirty slots because there's always surprises and you don't know to the
day of necessarily. I think there should be matches to qualify and every every
year or or you know, maybe not all, maybe not thirty matches,
but maybe there are some slots that you need to be qualify, you need
to qualify for. I'm fine with that. I like that. Again,
I don't know about the whole like all of them. That seems like a
lot to me. Yeah, I mean, even spread out, that seems
like a lot. But I think as a I think, you know,
for for a good number of them. Absolutely, I think it's a great
idea. Yeah, makes it valuable. It makes that, It makes that
thing, makes the being in the rumble valuable. It does. So we
see Vince as the illegitimate father of Hornswaggles. So let's let Dylan Postel himself
tell us the story of how that came to be, because this is pretty
much a show to do it because of that backstage segment and as it reveals,
it was supposed to lead to potentially Vince McMahon versus Finley at WrestleMania.
That's a dream match we all wanted, which definitely did not happen. Just
after SummerSlam, he writes an investigation into online pharmacies prescribing steroids led to ten
ww wrestlers being suspended for violations of the company wellness policy. I can tell
you online pharmacies have never distributed steroids, and we distributed them by hand in
person among them. As I'm sure you could have guessed, given his run
of luck, was Ken Kennedy. He was written off TV that week and
suspended for thirty days, just a week before they were scheduled to reveal who
McMahon's bastard son was. Remember boss, Oh, yes, it's supposed to
be Kennedy. Kennedy yep. Years later I asked Ken point blank if he
was supposed to have been Vince's son. He gave me a sly grin and
just said, I don't think so. We both knew what was meant to
be him. Ken's luck didn't change over the next couple of years, and
after a couple of more injuries in a match well Rand Yorking complained about it
being unsafe in the ring, w B let him go. It was a
real shame. Ken could have just been a huge star. The entire roster
was brought into ron Green Bay for the big reveal. No one had any
idea who it was going to be. I figured it would be just another
day at work. But mid afternoon, as rehearsal was about to start,
Vince's right hand man, Bruce Pritchard told me to be in backstage. When
I got there, the first thing he did was demand my phone. I
could tell from his expression he was dead serious, so I handed it over
and then he said the words that changed my life your Vince's son, and
change his life. Really he go so far to say that for the worst.
Oh all right now he didn't say that, but I did. The
big reveal was going to be me. All I could do was stare at
him blankly and mumble, why, what do you mean why? Bruce replied,
You're going to be in a storyline with a boss, don't question it.
Very good for him for saying, well for asking why. I asked
him I could have my phone back, and then was told I'd get it
back after the show. Yeah, he'll get it back when we say you
get it back. You know why they had to confiscate talents phones like middle
school students, Oh, because they're going to text their friends and say hey
or text Meltzer nailed it. The office was determined to keep the identity of
Vince's son a secret and didn't want any risk of the news getting into the
internet. I told Bruce I understood, but if I was going to be
featured in the main event on Run My Home State, I wanted to ask
my dad, Anne and her mom to be there. His dad, Anne,
who was his girlfriend, and her mom to be there. Bruce agreed
to arrange complimentary tickets for them and watched me like a hawk as I texted
a lot of texting in this company asking them to come to the show that
evening. Then he took my phone away. Sure, I'm sure at the
time there was this idea that, hey, you know, texting, it's
you know, it's a you know, no one's going to know. These
things are very secretive ways. Yes, I'm getting messages across now, not
when they can confiscate texts like Matt Damon texting in his pocket and the right
exactly. Bruce agreed to arrange complementary tickets for them and watch me like a
hawk as I texted asking them to come to the show that evening. Then
he took my phone away again. Meanwhile, the rest of the roster was
in the arena rehearsed. In the final segment of the night, Vince was
explaining how a private investigator quote unquote would appear on the screen and read out
a series of clues about the identity of his son. Everyone that when something
came up that took them out of the running, they would go backstage.
They should go backstage. Then everyone was told it would come down to Vince
and Hunter in the ring, and that was the end of the rehearsal.
They didn't even clue the roster into the payoff of the angle to avoid spoilers
getting out at the rehearsal. As the rehearsal was ending, Bruce told me
that he'd get me my bag later, but that I needed to get under
the ring immediately. I made my way to ringside and snuck underneath just as
everyone else was making their way to the back. Once I was settled,
I got on the headset. Kevin Dunn was waiting for me and instructed me
to not speak on the headset unless I was directly spoken to. Around six
pms, the crowd was beginning to be let into the building, my bag.
What are you a child in a fucking Catholic high school? Pretty much,
don't speak unless you've been spoken to. That is exactly the mood.
Around six pms, the crowd was beginning to be let in the building.
My bag was slid under the ring Apron and Vince checked in to make sure
I was alright. He repeated what Kevin had said, explaining that when they
spoke to me, they could block other people from listening in and only he,
Kevin, and I would be able to hear each other. They were
talking, taking rather every precaution to keep this secret under apps. That night
was one of my longer stays under the ring. I'd already been under there
for a couple of hours before the show started. Can you imagine having a
sit under that ring for like six hours? Miserable? I mean, I
hope they had like food or something. I think they did. I always
get like a TV or something too, like, oh, the Dark Match,
Yeah, that would help pretty Like a DVD play, like a portal
DVD player like I used to have. There's a good one. Yeah,
can't have your phone, so right, watch a couple of movies, The
Dark Match and Heat Tapings, took another forty five minutes, and I only
emerged in the final moments of the last segment of the two hour episode of
Raw. Every twenty to thirty minutes, Vince would check in and ask if
I needed anything to eat or drink. I was always appreciated his concern for
my comfort under there to get Where're you gonna get it from? They could
have something run down and slipped under the ring. Yeah, that gives it
away. But there's somebody under the ring. Yeah, you could do it
the way people wouldn't notice during a Big Stars entrance or something. I don't
know. I was appreciated his concern for my comfort under there. Later on,
he went through his cue my cue with me, then asked if I
was changed yet, and I said I wasn't. He asked, how are
you going to change under there? I simply said, Vince, I'm a
midget. Uh. I'm also I'm not in a I'm on a cocoon,
which earned me a signature Vince laugh, You're a midget, Yeah, a
lot of it. When I eventually decided to get changed, I opened my
bag and saw the Cruiserweight title belt sitting there. I started a panic wondering
whether I should bring it into the ring with me or not. I didn't
want to screw up in my first moments of this new high profile role,
and I couldn't ask about it because I'd been forbidden from talking to anyone.
I thought i'd mention it when Vince checked in next, but when that didn't
happen for a while, I grew increasingly worried. Finally, during a commercial
break, I pressed the button to allow me to speak on the headset.
Kevin nothing, Kevin still nothing, Kevin, Wow, we told you not
to talk. I'm sorry. I just want to know if I should bring
the Cruiserweight title out with me. It's about that, he asked soundingly.
He couldn't believe I'd ask something so stupid, You fucking idiot. Wait a
second. After a while, I heard Kevin's voice again, saying, Vince
his son's asking if he should bring the goddamn belt out with him. He
said, Vince's son, Yes, Oh my god, what a Vince the
son's asking the Sun's I was relieved to hear Vince say that's a great question.
Yes, Dylan, you should bring it out. Because one of the
clues is to do with the titles. When the final segment of the night
went ahead and the field was thinned out before one final clue was delivered to
the new McMahon liked to play the game with Triple Aho's nickname being the game.
The other final contenders cleared out, and Vince and Hunter were left together
in a moment made more awkward because Hunter is married to Vince's daughter and the
audience knew it. Vince screened that something was wrong and demanded the name of
his bastard son. The investigator then explained that the game the son liked to
play could be hide and seek, horseshoes, or marbles, and the things
were looking up. Not for Vince looking up. Oh my god, it's
such a reality check to go back, It really is. Ah, there's
such a fucking nightmare like post Vince becoming an on screen character. It's such
a reality check. Yep, oh yes, not for Vince. But as
for his son, horn swoggle, the crowder rupped it as my music head.
I got in the ring and danced around like a kid at Christmas.
Vince looked disgusted, and Hunter and I looked like like all his birthdays had
come at once. The most watched weekly show in the wrestling industry. Went
off the year with Hunter pointing and laughing as I hugged Vince mcmaon's left leg.
Appearing in the main event segment of Raw felt incredible, And it was
made even better off by the fact that I was happening in Green Bay with
other people closest to me at that time, right there in the crowd.
When I talked to my real dad afterward, I was relieved to hear that
the angle didn't bother him at all. He understood that working with the most
powerful man in the entire business, arm Son, he looked like a damn
fool working that fake shit. I guess he migrated to Wisconsin. I just
don't you know. I don't know you know this, this whole thing that
you're in, that you're in. Uh, I just don't know. I
don't know where it's going. I don't know what kind of value you see
out of it. I don't know what kind of value I see out of
you. Oh, I don't know if I did you call in here anymore?
Dylan. I tell you the truth. It was bad enough you were
born so small. Now you got to make fun of it and make it
all public. I don't hurt Dad. It's one thing you're making an ass
out of yourself and a fool out of yourself in front of the entire country.
But the fact that you made me fly there to experience it in person,
that's just something I can't help it take personally, like I'm supposed to
be proud of you for something I've never been proud. Oh shit, oh
shit, I think we've got the title of the chapter. Do you know
what my dad said when I was revealed as Vince's bastard son on raw He
said, I've never been proud of you. Did you mean? Did he
say, I've never been prouder of you? No? No, I've never
once been proud. There's no way in hell I'm proud now. And then
Dylan Postel walks into the Starbucks and the Barns and like he always does as
part of his routine, and he looks up at the bookshelf, and there
it is. I was never proud of you my life as Hornswoggle's father with
I'm a cover. It's his dad, and he's got like a Hornswoggle ahead,
ripping it in half. Imagine that book comes out and you have no,
heads up, Dad, What the fuck? Yeah, that's what I
was asking myself about you. What the fuck? He's a ship. I
don't like you anymore, son, I'm not proud of you. How I
came to hate my son Hornswoggle? How I came to hate my son Comma
Ww's Hornswoggle? Oh god, Oh, so that latte went down rough that
day. Yeah, I'll say shit. You see you see Hornswoggle at a
convention. Hey, is it true that your dad was going to come up
with a book that said, I've never been proud of you? How I
came to hate my son Hornswoggle? Imagine like the look on his face,
how I came to hate my son Ww's Hornswoggle. Do you hear about that
book coming out? Have you heard about that book? Your dad wrote it.
I'm surprised you didn't hear about it. The kind of dad that would
sit at a computer and write that book. Can someone tell me how to
use one of these goddamn things a computer? Now we know I Fred's tried
to learn Windows ninety five to write a book about why you hated Kevin,
Why I hated his son. I want you to know that the fund be
dead. Yeah, I wrote a book, I'm a computer What a Copooter
the Computer film? Yeah, exactly, that's what I thought. So when
my dad went to work the next day, people obviously knew what had happened,
because they joked with him, asking, Hey, is there something you
need to tell us about Dylan. Oh yeah, yeah, my midget son
is somebody else's kid. But I've been acting like it's my kid the whole
time, not my son. Well, of course this all didn't amount to
much. It was basically like a plan B after they decided to not go
with Kennedy. Mister Kennedy Kennedy. Yeah. After the rumble, he writes
in his book, mister McMahon was not pleased that his son had let him
down. His punishment, he demanded I become the newest member of the Kiss
My Ass Club, which is exactly what it sounded like the person he was
attempting to me. It would have to kiss his bare ass on national TV
again. Again. Boss were right back in that weird like I can't deal
with it any more. Category. No, it's it's definitely not it's it's
it's a lot darker than it used to be. This idea was presented to
me with absolutely no tact. Before the show that night, vincently told me
you're going to join tonight? Was that? No question, no discussion,
no argument. Are you prepared to grace my ainus with your lips? Right?
But that's that's what's going to happen. You are going to kiss my
ass and you are going to like it and you are going to need it.
Are you prepared for that? Are you prepared for your life to change?
Right when you pucker up and kiss my buttocks? We're going to have
a little person kiss my buttocks, my sweaty buttocks, sweaty, stinky hind
quarters, hind quarters. Keister a deal? Please? I love that word.
He's a love that word. Oh my god. The payoff to the
segment was going to be that instead of kissing his ass, I was going
to bite it once again. Great ass bite, decent splash. Biting is
an ass is a standard part of midget wrestling repertoire, but usually the recipient
was one of the women and it was through some clothes. I didn't mind
doing it because it got me in a segment on row, but putting my
mouth on a sixty year old man's bare ass wasn't on my bucket list.
Still, the crowd seemed to enjoy the segment, and I liked one at
these people, and I liked it because it was another chance to have the
spotlight on me. Oh that bite led to Vince ordering me to face him
on Raw the next week in a rare singles match. First both the match
was pretty much just Vince daring me to slap him, and when I finally
did, he took off his belt and prepared to deliver some more tough love.
Finley got to the ring before the whipping started and stopped Vince getting to
me. Vince then got on the microphone told Finley he was interfering with family
business and threatened to fire him. When back down, Vince pointed out that
to me that he and Finley weren't the same sort of Irish because Finley was
a coward. Vince then threw me down and turned around to find Fit,
grinning his gap tooth smile at him. Vince cracked Vince, and the Fit
rather cracked Vince in the head with the Shaley immediately raising a goose egg and
then sent me up to the top rope. I hit my tadpole splash on
Vince and the ref counted three. With that, I became one of the
very few people to pin Vince McMahon. I know it's not real, but
it's still a cool piece of trivia. Stone Cold Steve Auston has never pinned
Vince McMahon, but Hornswoggle has. Over the previous few weeks, there had
been several backstage segments where Finley had been yelling at Vince. I want you
to think about what you just fucking I know when you say like these words
that I know if you spread to a normal human being, they'd be like,
what did you just say? As Shaley? What now? Who that
girl? Name? Is that what you said? Yeah? Right? Over
the previous few weeks, there had been several backstage segment where Finley had been
yelling at Vince about a secret that I needed to be told, a secret
he didn't want to hide anymore. The big reveal we'd been building up to
is that Vince wasn't actually my dad Finley was. I found out years later
that senging was supposed to lead to a match at wrestle Mania twenty four,
which would have been at the Battle of the Irish between Finley and Vince himself.
Oh my god, I can't imagine how much promotion that would have got,
But unfortunately it didn't happen. Somewhere along the way during the backstage segments,
Vince apparently changed his mind and Ki bosch his own physical involvement. At
the time, I had no idea that fits match with the Boss had been
canceled, so I couldn't feel disappointed. In fact, it was completely the
opposite. I couldn't believe my luck. When I started wrestling, I never
thought i'd be on Raw. I never thought I'd be in a cage match.
I definitely never thought i'd be in a one on one match with the
most powerful man in the entire industry, and yet there I was about to
have a cage match on Raw against Vince McMahon. Before rehearsals started that night,
Fit took me aside and prepared me for the fact that I was going
to get roughed up, but the Vince would take care of me financially for
my involvement. Later, Vince reiterated that it was going to be a rough
night. It's going to be snug tonight, Dylan. He warned me,
I'm gonna tell you how you're You're You're gonna hurt and I'm gonna hurt you.
So you see this revolver right here, Dylan a plan tonight the cocks
it. Hey, Vince Swag, come on over. You see this?
This is ah, this firearm. What I'm gonna do here is I'm showing
this to you because I'm actually I'm giving it to you, all right,
but I'm it's loaded, fully loaded, just like our pay per view all
right, see that there it is. I'm gonna cock it now and I'm
gonna hand this to you. If at any time tonight before our match you
would rather use this on yourself, feel free either way. It's going to
be a great fucking story and you're going to get destroyed. Oh shit,
that's hard core. Well I am on ACW I mean so I am hardcore.
So he takes hilacious punishment, getting thrown into the cage like he's getting
shut out of a cannon, and then the company gets him a red eye
flight back home, told him he wouldn't get smacked down to be off to
sell the injuries. Wednesday, he get another call from the office Tellingham he
wouldn't be needed for the following week's tapings and then that's about the end of
it. Oh my god. I'll tell you what. We're not going to
need you for about three years, and you're going to be without pay for
three years. And I don't mean that without pay from US. I mean
you're not going to get paid anywhere. I have seen to it that that
any business but you attempt to get a job at is going to reject you
based on your height. All right, my goal is achieved that you will
not make money for three years. Thanks for playing, Thanks for kissing my
ass on television. I save this one for you, boss, Okay,
because a big story of this is Jeff Hardy challenging Randy Orton for the ww
Championship. Yes, with the exception of a ladder match against Undertaker on Ron
two thousand and three, Jeff Hardy never really had a proper crack at the
gold Yeah for good reason too, And it just started to build up after
he came back from a series of drug issues and a stint in TNA that
really was sort of a disaster Jeff. It sort of started to rewin the
confidence of the office that he had put his demons behind him and that he
was on a path where they could, you know, invest in him with
the potential title run. And I think it was part of the situation with
the revolving doors and whether Seeing would do Rumble or not that they eventually decided
to put Jeff Hardy in there against Randy Orton one on one at RUMBLED a
challenge for the belt. Of course, as we know, traditionally, rumble
is thought to be the big draw itself the match, so you can give
lesser guys world title shots elsewhere in the cart. It's a place to put
the belt to give someone a title shot that otherwise, you know, couldn't
carry a pay per view, especially as we said before, in an era
where they still relied on month to month of pay per view buys to move
the ship. So Jeff gets a shot here, but by the time they
get to the show, it was one of those ones that the fans decided,
what if, you know, it wasn't like a fat of complay that
he was going to lose to Randy Orton here and the fans in the garden
try to will it across the finish line. Reportedly, Michael Hayes, who
was always a strong supporter of the Hardy's on creative was pushing for Jeff to
actually win the belt on this occasion. No, but Vince was very high
on the noment and Randy Orton had even if he lost faith in it just
a couple of months later apparently. And so this was a big moment for
Jeff where people were starting to entertain the what ifs of him becoming Champion of
the World. He did have that match against Dumaga on that Red Hot Royal
Rumble two. What year was that was that? After this match against Dumaga
on? Uh? No, I don't remember that at all. Let's see,
Well, I know Sina had the Yumaga match on a rumble. Yes
he did have. He faced you Manga. I think that was seven seven
was it? Where? Where Sena did? I don't know where? Jeff,
I think what it was was. Yeah, Hardy had an amazing cage
match against Maga on the January seventh, two thousand and eight raw to set
up his run for the title. I think he won the Icy Belt to
retain the Icy Belt in that match. I see, so it was part
of the yeah here, yeah, it was a great match. And so
so here we get to the Rumble and him being a North Carolinian. Mike
mouniham over the Charleston Posting Courier picks up the phone and does an interview with
Jeff about how big of a moment this coun potentially be. This ran in
the paper January twenty seventh, Wow, the day of the pay per view,
and uh, I'd love to hear you talk about how excited people were
about Jeff Hardy. Jeff Hardy has won a slew of titles over the course
of his career. One major crown, though, has eluded him. It's
the most prestigious in the business, and Hardy has the chance to do something
he's dreamed about since the days of bouncing around and a makeshift ring in his
backyard in Cameron, North Carolina. The high flying, risk taking Hardy challenges
Randy Orton for the WWE Heavyweight Championship in one of the featured bouts at Tonight's
Royal Rumble pay per view in the most famous fight venue in the country,
Madison Square Garden. He also could become part of history by being only the
third man to hold the Intercontinental and WWE heavyweight titles at the same time.
Hardy says It's probably the biggest match of his career by far. This is
the closest I've ever meant being ww champion and actually being one of the top
guys. I've always kind of felt that I was a top guy, though
I'm not in main events all the time. But I've always been confident and
true to myself that I'm good at what I do, and I have a
ton of people care about me and a lot of really cool fans out there
who want to see me be heavy champion. Harty, in fact, has
one of the biggest and most loyal fan bases in the company. He readily
admits he doesn't fit the bill as the prototypical WWE heavyweight champion, but it's
his daredevil's style approach and hardcore fan following that propel him to the next level.
I don't care if I'm just two hundred and twenty five pounds and I
don't look like the standard champion in whomever's eyes. Hardy's fans, he says,
are the same kind of fan he was growing up and cheering on his
mad idols. There's a special connection there. I've always wanted to have that
same kind of bond with my fans. Hardy has been somewhat of a comeback
kid since returning to WWE in August two thousand and six. His career took
a sharp downward spiral in March two thousand and three, when, after a
series of showing up late for matches, failing drug tests, and refusing to
go to rehab, he was released by the company that had hired him as
a teenager, had nurtured him, and had watched him steadily progress through the
ranks. Hardy, though, refocused his passions and energy, defeated his personal
demons and made a triumphant return to w DA, and he's done it in
spectacular fashion. I always knew it would take time, but I always felt
i'd get there. The hardest thing for me to get used to is being
away from home so much. These international tours are extremely brutal because there's sometimes
like twenty days at a time, so it's hard to be consumed by the
product. But that's what I pretty much knew I was going to have to
do. Will be where I am now. That's why I am where I
am now, because I'm one hundred percent committed to WWE. They know I'm
not going to be missing any flights. They know I've got my head right.
It's all about wrestling. That's what they want and that's what they need.
Hardy remains the daredevil he always has been in the ring, and some
of his recent death defying spots have been highlighting highlight reel gems. One week
after executing a breath taking whisper of the Wind off the top of a cage
in a raw match with Yumenga, Hardy followed it up with a swantm bomb
off a scaffold more than twenty feet high onto a prone orton. Fortunately,
a potential tragedy on live television was averted. That definitely was one of the
most massive moves. It was really creepy, but it looked amazing. You
really feel proud of yourself when you watch something like that back. Because it's
such a risky move, people will say you're crazy, but that's what my
character was modeled after things like that. I'm usually pretty comfortable with anything I
look at or stand on top of. I feel if I can't do it,
I'll be the first to say I can't do it. I'll continue to
do things like that and go with my instinct until something goes wrong and I
do get hurt. But other than that, I can't really downplay my instinct
because nothing bad has happened to me. That, of course, doesn't mean
Hardy is injury free. Far from it. I'd beat up. My ankle's
are really weak. A lot of them stems from motocross in the past.
I've got a bone chip in my right kneecap now, pain in my elbows
and two hernia at the disks, and my neck in my back. I'm
not feeling great, but I've been extremely lucky that I've gone this far without
surgery, so I'll just keep knocking or on metal or wood. Success hasn't
spoiled Jeff Hardy. He's just happy to be part of the show and says
not being at the top of the cart at WrestleMania wouldn't be a disappointment,
not at all. I'd feel just as successful as long as I'm a part
of WrestleMania. It doesn't take much for me to want to know that I'm
popular and needed. I don't have to be in the main event to know
that I've done something. We'll put that to the test, buddy. They
were taking it deadly seriously. In the UK a column called Fighting Talk,
and the Daily Star on January eighteenth ran this column, We've barely dipped our
toe in the bath water of two thousand and eight, but already the temperature
should have a health warning for wrestling fans. It's such an exciting time,
in fact, that we might drop the soap. Jeff Hardy, at established
tag team genius and pioneered the ladder matches, finally got himself a singles world
title shot this weekend next weekend rather at the Royal Rumblin looks like a genuine
Maine event contender. FT can't help wondering if the Carolinian hero viewed as a
credible singles champion where it matters in WWE, or is he seen as a
top of the card fodder for more generic and larger characters to chew up and
the eyes at w B Hardy has to be ticking the boxes in the arenas
crowds are going insane for the high flying, imaginative spots that have become Hardy's
trademark. His swanton bomb is evidence done raw is a big weapon and serve
to save the big singles match with Orton for the pay per view on its
own last Monday Night. Hardy's story is certainly worth a ninety minute feature if
he suspected DVD book release off the back of his current push. Whether he
wins the title now or not, it's a career born of childhood obsession and
huge sacrifice, flowering to live the dream, then the anguish of nearly blowing
it all, and then finally his recent redemption. I really thought you were
going to say it's a story of childhood abuse or obesity. I thought it's
a story Jeff Hardy's story is one of childhood obesity. I don't know if
you knew that. Yeah, man, I was a fat kid, you
know, and then I started jumping off buildings and all of a sudden it
was okay. And then I started shaving my beard. Man, but I
would leave two strips there. Yeah, and I said, hey, you
know what, I think, I'm contracted to myself. Despite Hardy's unique talent,
his well documented drug problems as a younger man led to an acrimonious departure
from WW under Cloud and a Younger Man. Yeah, it's like three years
prior. No, Well, he's got so many redemptions that I guess from
which few thought he would emerge. He resurfaced in TNA, but Hardly was
treading water and working to earn a repute, earning to return to what he
himself refers to as the bigger stage. The last time f he had a
chin wag with the bizarrely bearded one, he told me he sorely misperforming to
the larger ww audience, as although he had enjoyed his time in Orlando in
Nashville with the competition, his efforts since Vince took him back into the fold
have earned him his buzz Bonanza next Sunday in the Garden. And if there's
a better feeling in wrestling then Mania, you'd have to travel a long way
to find it. Hardy will always be considered a smaller bloke, however,
which is where ftces long term trouble arising he has the hottest property on the
short list, excused the pun of suitors to Randy Orton's title in fans eyes,
but memories of Raymisterio Junior's title run two years ago spring to mind when
you think of the possibility of a Hardy victory. Vince has has to listen
to the fans, Yes, but it's pretty clear from the stats that he
doesn't bet to the pot on vertically challenged champions. Perhaps Hardy can expect a
short run and a big night out in Orlando at best, because removing the
title from Orton at present just seems like the wrong option. Hardy's tail should
have the happy ending it deserves. He should get a chance at being the
top dog. But unlike Sena edge taker, hbk Orton and Batista on the
prowl around Mania, Hardy you might find it a little crowded at the banquet
table. As IC champion, you get the feeling that Jeff Hardy has his
insurance policy win or loose Sunday. The nagging doubt remains whether his employers have
the balls to put him on top woo. Of course they didn't. He
took the fall, he barely registered his significant in the ladder match the money
in the bank ladder match at Mania, but by the end of the year,
due to several different changes and circumstances, they did put the strap on
him. It Army again, Oh God, that was that year. Wasn't
it triple threat match with him? And was it Orton and Trips or seen
in Trips? It his Orton and trips. He comes off the top of
the swanton and pins. Uh yeah, Orton had given the pedigree. Triple
H given the pedigree to Orton, and then Hardy comes off the top swanton
that that bounces a triple H out of the ring and then he pins him
for the belt. And that title reign didn't last very long at all,
like a month something like that. Yeah, let's see. I remember it
was like because it was like, you know, here he is, he
gets the belt, fucking Edge and triple H Jeff Hardy Edge and triple H.
Yeah was the match and uh Edge, that's right, and yeah,
like who fucking cares? Yeah? And also because like it was a year
not that I was a fan of him winning it anyway, but it was
like a year too late, right, Yeah. Yeah, he turned to
two thousand and nine and then he lost the title at the Rumble to Edge
after Hardy's brother Matt interfered right turned on him. We've all wanted to see
brother was brother right disaster. This was the first HD show January twenty first,
two thousand and eight. Multi Channel News, the travel channel, and
content distributor World Wrestling Entertainment last week announced new high definition initiatives. The WW
will finally showcase all of its elbow smashes, body slams, and pins and
HD beginning on Monday's January twenty first episode of USA Networks Monday Night, So
January twenty one, two thousand and eight. I remember it well, the
first HD raw, I don't I had my TV ready to go for it.
I don't remember that at all. All of a sudden, the margins,
those black bars on the left and right popped out, and that real
estate was being used like it was being used on on other channels. So
weird all that at all. Not one bit remember they were going to switch
the signal over to like analog wouldn't even work anymore at a certain point.
Yep, that I do remember. I've seen videos on YouTube of like the
last second of analog broadcast. Wow, it just stops, just ends,
and from that point on only digital signals worked. A sad, sad day
one can one can point to. That day is the end of when it
used to be better. I will say that, yep. Never forget that
analog all your black boxes stop working everything? Oh yeah, man, now'll
we have much more control over everything? Yep. It was all very I
can't even I coded. Yep. Now it's all it's a it's a nightmare.
I can't even watch, you know, like you can't even watch your
own cable provider on another TV. That's right, if it's not on the
Wi Fi. Yep. Yeah, they acted like you could bring your cable
anywhere you went, and then they just took that promise back. No,
you can watch on your phone, go ahead, you just can't watch another
TV. It was June twelve, two thousand and nine. The transition was
set back three times, according to this article here. First, December thirty
one, twenty eight was supposed to be the last day of analog broadcast oh
Man so sad. June twelve, two thousand and nine, all US full
power analog TV broadcasts WOW acquired by law to end on that day, and
so this being a harbinger of that, along with its original cable and broadcast
series Raw and AM Raw. Remember AM Raw, that's right on USA.
It was like the Live Wire time slod. Yeah, it was like two
am. Actually it wasn't a It wasn't nine am Sci Fi anal ZCW Extreme
terms of Wrestling and the CW's Friday SmackDown. The w W also deliver all
of its pay per view shows and HD, beginning with the Journy twenty seventh
Royal Rumble event. The company recently completed a twenty million dollar renovation of at
Stanford, Connecticut Television studios, along allowing rather the WWT broadcast in HD.
Thanks Ran Learnt all about HD high defining entertainment and for our purposes as we
head into our deep dive, HD might as well stand for high Death Toll.
Oh you know all things? You know that is true? All things
considering, it's kind of a it's a it's a dark, modern modern show
because there are quite a few dead. We have six wow, six dead
for a more modern show. A referee, Mickey j Henson, You Manga,
Jimmy Snooker, Roddy Piper, Big Daddy V and be under take her
rest in peace all indeed, and with that we will deliver on our promise
to deep dive the two thousand and eight WWE Royal Rumble. Boss, it's
time for the dive in a peacock. Are you ready? I guess it's
time to rumble. We'll be hearing from Michael Buffer speaking of are you ready,
damn right, we will be see you on the other side of the
break on part two, as TLF does what it does best, gets down
to the nitty gritty and deep dives that two thousand and eight Royal rumble on
that fucking cast