What is a Fellows thermonuclear a efforts. I am Dan fa Valley with my
certified Fantabular's co host, mister Grant Hughes for the first time in what feels
like forever, but apparently it's not that long ago. Per the emails that
Grant and I link each other to before we podcast. We are here to
do our They're not official NBA Awards predictions just yet, but we're entering the
stretch run the final quarter of the season. We will have a podcast where
we probably go through all of these a little bit quickly to update any of
our picks. But we're three quarters of the season in the books, we're
going to take stock of all the major awards that are out there. I
felt like a good time to do so, and it's coming out at a
time where I feel like not a lot of people. They're talking about the
betting odds of these awards, but they're not making their predictions just yet because
it's all do that in a couple of weeks, So our priors probably have
not been impacted or influenced as much as they would have been, which is
both exciting and terrifying at the same time. But before we get started the
question everyone's dying to know the answer to because it's been so long in podcast
time since they've heard it. Grant, how the heck are you doing?
It has been a long time. It's very it's good to see you,
it's good to hear you. It's just good to be back. It is
really bizarre that my first thought was like, oh, we haven't talked in
forever, or we haven't recorded in forever. It's been like ten days February
eighteenth, and we're recording this. So all any numbers year, by the
way, are locked in as of February twenty ninth, so and we'll get
into the criteria very quick. Yeah, wasn't as long as I thought.
We talked a bunch and Grant's text messages to me were aren't you on vacation?
Every time I would message something about the podcast or short without fail,
not working, enjoy yourself? Yeah I was. I was deliberately. I
was like trying to be like real clipped and short, but like not in
a mean way. It was like, because I want you to go enjoy
your I'm immune to your short text. I just send you waterfall messages anyway.
Yeah, you did not take the hint. You kept working so but
you stayed on brand these awards. We both talked about this beforehand. There's
an unnecessary amount of anxiety behind this research and our picks this year. I
have no idea what it is, but it's just I was super anxious and
stressed out about it. I'll probably hate myself after this podcast, but it's
supposed to be fun. We have the sixty five game minimum in our back
pocket apparently, though as you mentioned before we recorded this, it applies to
all defense all NBA teams, which we will get to at a later date.
I think that podcast will drop on Monday. It applies to all the
awards except six Men of the Year and all rookie teams. Is that correct?
And I think Rookie of the Year I just had to have opened.
But basically, any rook anything rookie be prepared for us to just correct this
if we've doubled down on the research for when we do all rookie teams.
But I think generally rookies and then six man are not affected by the sixty
five game rule, which even like honestly, just not to dive too deep
into it. But when I was looking at like all NBA teams and all
defensive teams, I had the thought of, like, thank god, some
of these guys get disqualified so I don't have to think about them because the
list is already way too deep, But just having a handful be out of
consideration just sort of simplified things for me, which is like a bummer that
we, you know, just can't consider guys that might come close. I
think, I think probably that's one of the worst things about the rule is
that, like I would have thought about several players for some of those awards,
but the sixty five game rule was helpful in some ways, less so
for a lot of these individual awards. I think, I don't know how
you felt about it, but it didn't Other than like embied obviously, there
weren't a huge number of guys that I really would have considered as potential winners
that were knocked out by the rule. Yeah, it really feels like it
might impact our rookie talk more than anything, even the six man a year
I did. When I was going about it, I was using the sixty
five game ru in my head. But going back, it's like I will
say, if it didn't apply to the Most Improved Player discussion. There might
be some spiciness there, but we'll get to that in time. Without fail
though, every time anyone does these podcasts, there are people that say the
criteria is inconsistent or ambiguous. Their criteria is better. This is how they
approach it. Grant and I are not going to sit here and rattle off
a bunch of different numbers and metrics, a bunch of different specific plays,
a bunch of different per game stat lines. We will talk about numbers and
they will come up, but the idea, I promise you we have watched
games, we have looked at the numbers, we have read, we have
listened to other podcasts about players and teams. We're bringing all of the information
that we have or that we believe is pertinent at our disposal and trying to
loop it together into just this aggregate discussion. Again, there will be numbers
that come up, there will be specific things, but like we can't sit
here and say, well, you know, Jokic ranked in the top five
of EPM, and Lebron and Vorp and Schnorp and Slurps and whatever Zach Low
calls them. And we're not going to say that for every guy, Like,
it's just you should know the numbers all that you're working with. We
have some data that's maybe not as publicly available for people that are behind pay
walls, but like you've seen the same data we have. We're gonna be
very cognizant of not being we like going into the wise. We're not gonna
be too dry or too complicated, because that just doesn't translate well whether it's
video or podcast form. I will throw our ballots up on the screen for
anyone watching, But I just want to make that clear because you say you
have a different methodology that went into it. There's no scientific way to do
this with you. Me. I try to be consistent with my thought and
I do think the sixty five gamement of them actually help us do this.
But there's a bunch of different things that you value and it comes up to
how you interpret the award. And we won't start here, but like,
just looking at the most valuable player is does that mean best player on the
best team. Does it mean the player who just literally can't be removed off
as team? How do you handle a player who has a deeper supporting cast
than others, or one who plays with starters more than bench players compared to
the other candidates. There's so many balls in the air. At the end
of the day, this is not that serioes. It's supposed to be fun.
I'm all for the debate, but you not come. I will not
respond to any comments, any discord messages, any Twitter mentions or dms that
are just pandering, patronizing, angry. Whatever I promise you. We might.
We might be wrong. I'll be wrong all the time. That will
be I might. We're gonna come back in a month, circle back.
I promise I'll have edits here. But I just wanted to get that out
of the way. As I promise you, we tried to take into as
much as consideration as we deem possible and pertinent. Yeah, I think I
think that is how we need to start talking about the MVP conversation, because
there are a couple If you're ready to just jump into it, we're going
right to m VP. We're not even gonna like try and get people to
listen. We get to the Spicy award. I think you frontloaded. I
think you're frontloaded. I think we go MVP. This is peep behind the
curtain, This is real time decision I had an earmark for last All right,
let's roll. Yeah, No, here's look, we just you know,
you don't podcast for ten days or whatever with me, and now I'm
just gonna wreck your whole spreadsheet. So you may like just the concept of
valuable. It's it is one of the three words in the MVP Award.
Nobody is sure what it means and there so, gosh, what's the what's
the doorway into this? How you conceive of the word valuable really affects the
top two guys? Do we agree? Let's let's start here my top two?
Oh, just very quickly. Sorry, Well, there might be some
hms that pop up, honorable mentions, hms like I need to abbreviate it.
There will be some honorable mentions that pop up on the board, but
we're gonna do it official ballot style and try not to spoil too much of
our all NBA All Rookie All Defense discussion to come. There will be five
We went five deep for MVP and then three deep. I think everywhere else
does like the official order, and every other names that appear the order for
the most part might not matter. So if you're watching that that felt somebody,
Yeah, they're like this. For me, it's just like a worth
a mention guy, Like yeah, hey, everyone out there, like we
didn't forget this guy. So my MVP is Jokic, but I think some
of the best arguments against Jokic and four Sga, who is my number two,
have like really force you to reckon with like what valuable means, right,
so what we won't need to get into all the numbers, but like
the one that really leapt out to me and made me, you know,
want to have this part of the conversation was like, you know, Denver's
twenty two per hundred better with yokich On than off right, that's amazing.
Well, a lot of that is because they're just terrible when he's out.
When he's not out there, Sga the thunder like plus eleven point seven.
I think, again, we're not gonna go nuts with numbers, but I'm
just using this to illustrate this issue. The thunder like eleven point seven plus
eleven point seven per hundred with Sga on Denver is slightly worse than that.
Last I had the numbers pulled up like plus ten with yokich On. So
it's like, do we gauge Jokic's value by how good his team is with
him on the floor, Because if that's how we're doing it, just by
this number, then SGA is more valuable. Or is Yokic more valuable because
his team goes to shit when he's not in the game, right, Like,
because that's valuable? Right? Clearly he matters more to the success slash
failure of Denver than SGA does for the Thunder because the Thunder are like almost
break even without Sja on the floor. So it's just like, what's valuable
to you? I don't know, Like that that didn't decide it for me,
but I was curious, Like you probably came across those numbers two and
just like how how does that affect your your view of Like which what does
valuable mean in that context? Like do we care that because Jokic's supporting cast
I guess is worse or at least his replacement is worse that, like,
does that make him more valuable or should that even factor in? So I
look, I think everything factors in. It's just a matter of how you
wait it. And in this instance, specifically, the Thunder might be able
to tread water without Shay, they still struggle to score like hell when he
is not on the court, and it's almost with whatever conver nations you fuz
and fiddle with. Now, what is tough to reconcile If you look at
the percentage of Jokic's minutes that come with basically all starters, it's higher than
a lot of the others that are gonna be on this list. It's not
the highest because that's the way that Michael Malone is going to run his substitutions.
At the same time, like Jokic can prop up lineups without Jamal Murray.
No, if you remove the two best players on the Nuggets, which
when you get into the who's the third best player, right, let's just
use Aaron Gordon is probably at least their third most important player. Like Jokic
is still going to float those lineups on his own, and so like he's
going to do so better a lot of the times than Shay will do when
you mix and match there. So I got a little bit more into the
weeds with that. But I also just as you can't, I'm not gonna
pedalize Shave for having I don't know if it's a better supporting cast at the
top although like Jalen Williams is doing like wild stuff this year, and wouldn't
Check be the second best player on Denver potentially, Like I mean, I'm
Murray's really great. Well, Jamal Murray would be would still be the second
best player, but Check can't catch. The whole thing is is that I
might with Jokic as well, and I went with Shay at number two,
and I also dope. By the way, I do not think that this
is finished, like this is an MVP award that could still be determined.
Jokic to me impacts winning in more ways than Shay, where it's like,
yes, Shay's gonna have the edges of score, Shay's gonna have the edges
of defender because his de look chase defense has been incredible this year. He's
handled some tough assignments. They do insulate him when he's playing with Jay Dubb
and loudor at the same time, you also have Checked behind you. That
helps. But when you look at Jokic, what he does is a passer
and even the ways in which he's able to score at different levels and different
types of touches like where Shay can be a little not too dependent, but
He's dependent on that spacing and those drives where Yokic can score in a number
of different facets. To me, Shay's gonna be able to get to the
line a little bit more. A lot of that, I think has to
do with how much that Jokic is going to facilitate the offense from far away
from the basket. I also would turned it for me, and look,
the on off splits are part of that. Jokic defense has been really good
this year. Not to the point where I think Yogic belongs to the defensive
Player of the Year discussion, but for so long the conversation has been look
at what he does when he comes up to the level or how high he
comes up. He still does that this year, he watched them. I
talked about this with Ryan Blackburn. He's just he's not a good rim protector,
don't get me wrong, but like he's doing better in drop And then
when we talked about that, the guy is Duncan actually came out with the
numbers on what Yokic is doing in drop coverage, and it's like I can't
remember the specific number, but the Nuggets are allowing like under point nine to
five points per possession when Yokic isnt drop that's really good. And so you
take all that into account with just like the rebounding, the triple doubles,
the way he elevates the play of his teammates. You know why, I
think that Mike Malone is so married to playing his starters together as much as
possible because he knows the team cannot function without Jokic, and also because he
knows that Jokic elevates the play of so many of those guys around him.
They found some combinations Aaron Gordan at the five without Jokic that can work,
but nothing that can work for long periods of time. I don't I don't
know how to wait if again, I think there's just other reasons to pick
Yokic, as I outlined, if that was the deciding factor, I do
find it difficult. I honestly don't know how to view it. And I
think Nuggets fans might take exception if you're saying, well, who cares that
he play so much with the starters. It's like, hey, I'm not
penalizing him here. I picked him for MVP, but it is part of
the discussion and it might be something that could drive Shay's case in the eyes
of voters who in the final thing, I'll say, I'll just be very
curious. These are our picks, They're not predictions. I think Yokic should
win it. I do wonder if just Shay and the thunder being so new
and then how people wait. I think with a lot of these awards,
what gets baked into it is exceeding expectations, and Jokic is were numb to
him, there's like no exceeding expectations sort of. I'm wondering if that plays
into it at all, even though I don't think it should. Yeah,
I think that's a great point. I think too, Like, just to
to simplify it, this is what I mean. I think you can get
there. If you're just looking at the numbers and you didn't watch a second
of tape, you could It's like a coin flip because SGA has has Jokic
in some of the advanced numbers. Although, like you mentioned, the Jokic's
defense, I think to the extent that like it almost invalidates some of these
numbers, Like Jokic is i think leading the league in defensive box plus minus
last I look, which is just insane. That's like defensive rebounding is a
huge part of that, which is like part of the value, but it
clearly over is gonna cite that and say, like Jokic is a great defensive
player. Jokic has become like a he not damaging and sometimes good defensive player.
But just like this is why we're not just you know, spreadsheeting and
averaging numbers and saying well, this guy's the best because he's tops in all
these advanced metrics. I just think if if you boil it all the way
down, I think Jokic exerts a level of control over the game that no
one else touches, like on a possession by possession basis, and it's just
it is unique in the league. No one else does it. There there's
a handful of guys ever who have controlled the game the way that he can.
And I think ultimately it's just like there's you'll never be a to prove
this. So it's a perfect argument or disprove it. If you gave Jokic
four average NBA players, I think he does more with those guys in SGA
does with four average players as like you know, supporting casts. I just
like because Jokic can just make anything happen that he that whatever needs to happen
on the offensive end, he will engineer that. And SGA is awesome,
is great, Like none of this is another like macro point, because we
have a guy second in MVP, and we have to make distinctions between him
and the guy in first. We are not knocking the guy in second.
We're just trying. Yeah, we're just trying to say, here's the differences
as as nearly as we can see them. I just think Jokic Yogic is
just better. I think that's just where we are. I do. I
do think it's gonna be fascinating. And you brought this up, like are
we tired of Jokic by way? I mean the voters like you, Oh
well, is true? Shooting is only down to sixty five percent. It
was seventy percent last year, Like, well, we than this, So
what are we going to give him a third MVP? It's like the same
the same stuff that kind of maybe cost him coin flip at ward last year.
I don't know. This is where it gets interesting though, because those
have to be your one two. I think if you're being serious at all
about this, I think there's a case for so very quickly. I will
say, when I was parsing this, I don't know that we've ever had
an MVP debate like at the top with both where I want both players so
badly to just take more threes they're both under five for one hundred possessions,
and then it annoys the shit out of me. I like twelve, probably,
so I I wanted to frame what's coming next this way. It does
feel like you could flip the order a little bit, but it feels like
there's two more names that belong in the top five right without question? Or
do you only have like one name in there? No, I have,
I think there are I think there are two more, like for sure the
fifth spot gets kind of interesting and the games limit might come into play on
that one. But yeah, I think I do you want me to give
you my my next two? Yeah? Give me your three four? All
right? Three four? And I like, I don't have this in a
particular order on the right up I did, so I'll just I'll just do
it this way. I have Giannis three and Luca four, and that's like
you could so you could flip that either way, but just to make it
easy, We'll do jianness lucasiler alert. Since you're going to talk about it,
I did have it flip flopped Luca three. But yeah, no,
I I just you know, I think if you're so, maybe the way
to talk about this is like, well, why do we have it one
way versus the other? Because I don't I don't feel incredibly strongly that Yanna
should be there over Luca. Do you like what you seem like you were
a little more committed to like Luca should be third? So what's your what's
your rationale on that? I'm always going to default to. Look. Gianni's
defense I think has been better than people realize because the Bucks until recently have
been pretty bad on the defensive end. However, the things that were determining
factors for me I'm not detracting from his numbers are bonkers. And I've seen
some people say that he doesn't really have a case. He has a case.
I personally think that it's tough to pick him for me over Doncic,
Sga or Jokic. You picked him over, I give you. I have
no qualms about that. I think it's easier to make a case for Dncics
to win the award than it is for Giannis, which is wild when you
look at the standings and where we typically typically cull MVPs from. I look
at Lucas scoring and the way that he drives the offense in a way that
Giannis cannot, and like the Yannis without Dame numbers, they've scared me a
little bit, like the Bucks are losing those minutes the offenses. The defense
has actually been terrible during those stretches surprise surprize, but the offense has been
only okay. And I also do think and Giannis would probably admit this.
I think he and I understand Luca's not a good defender and that he could
still complain too much. But like we know that about Luca. When I'm
valuating Giannis from his baseline, he was part of the Bucks' transition defensive issues
to me for a good chunk of the season, and then like a flip,
kind of switched even before they got rid of even before they brought in
Doc Rivers. But I just look at the way that Luca is scoring and
what he's able to do. You've seen what he's been able to do in
the clutch this year as well. When you get into the on off data,
you would expect the MAVs to have a better point differential. But it's
like he has Kyrie, and then who's the third best player on the MAVs
And it's just gonna change on any given night. And now you've added Daniel
Gafford and PJ. Watch it didn't to that equation where it could also be
Tim Hardaway Junior. It could also be Derek Leveley the second. There's just
a bunch of different options. I think if you have a problem with the
way that Luka Doncic plays, maybe this impacts the award. But like,
this is someone who's just he's he's leading the league in scoring. When you
again who qualifies he's over what is he over thirty four points a game right
now? He's scoring just wildly efficiently, a sixty two point two true shooting
for someone who takes so many perimeter looks to like, yeah, Giannis has
sixty five tourd true shooting, but look where his looks are coming from.
Look at how much of the facilitation he is responsible for. He is also
someone who is like he's going to be on the glass, not as much
as Giannis, but that's also a positional thing, and I think that look,
Luca's been for stretches and some reason like he's had better defensive stretches this
year than a lot of other times in his career to me. And I
also think he's done a better job of not complaining as much even though he's
up there again in technicals. Look, I hate his crediting honest who I
think has been spectacular And I think if you pick any one of these four,
I ultimately wouldn't quibble. I just think that when we're looking at the
term of value for this season, specifically what Luka Doncic is doing in Dallas
to drive that offense, even with Kyrie Irving being there, who, by
the way, has missed a bunch of time, and you're gonna be responsible
for carrying a ton of units on your own because they like to stagger them
from one another. That element where Giannis I still just don't trust him to
carry units offensively without another creator on the floor is the difference. And maybe
that's a flawed way of looking at it, but to me, like that
top tier offense, I'm always going to prioritize it over the top tier defense,
which we haven't done our all defense team, yet Giannis is certainly a
candidate to make one of those. And so that's just where I'm at.
Again, if we fast forward two three weeks, maybe I'm saying differently.
Yeah, I think that's probably I think you don't need to switch my order.
I don't really care that much, because I do think I do think
the top two just belonged by themselves, and then after that, it's just
not that consequential to me. I think kind of the argument I made about
Jokic being the just in you know, exerting a level of control over what's
happening on the floor, like Luca probably comes closest to that, right,
like and and Yannis is not that type of player. Like Yannis can physically
dominate games in stretches, and he can do that on both ends, which
distinguishes him from Luca a little bit. But you know it, it does
feel like actually Janice's defense, because you know, the Bucks have not have
underperformed, They've been better lately. And I think you're right that Giannis has
been at least somewhat culpable for that disappointing overall performance. But like you,
you still hear but it's like, oh, it's better now, they've they've
they've you know, cleaned some things up with Doc Rivers and it's not Jianni's
fault. But then you do hear a lot of smart people saying that,
like, you know, Jannie is kind of he's the rover on that defense
and that's a valuable role. But it's like, you know, is he
really you know, he's not shutting down the other team's best player necessarily,
He's not like being this elite rim protector. He's not involved in a lot
of pick and roll defense just because of the role that he's playing. So
you know, I'm just I'm just the Giannice's defense has been like a tricky
issue because there have been years, I think in the past where you'd say
Janice's defense would just put him over the top, even if Luca were having
a season this good offensively and isn't having that kind of year defensively. I
guess maybe part of my preference for him is just that, like, he's
done it before and he's not so old that I don't think he can do
it again. But then that's like, that's not what this award is about.
It's not like you know who when they really are trying their hardest or
you know, is the best. It's who's doing it this year. That's
that's what we're trying to figure out. So yeah, I think I think
your argument for Luca being third is totally totally, uh defensible. I do
wonder to support your order versus mine whether I'm underestimating or discounting Jannis having to
adjust to integrating such a new like star piece in Damian Lillard, and there
was functional there was functional awkwardness on offense for a while there any times there
still is. Yeah, I think I think that's sufficient there, like that
they're but they're they're really close, Like I don't think. I think what's
interesting is when you said it's a lot easier to imagine Luca winning it than
be honest, that's one hundred percent true. So like it doesn't really make
sense that I have Giannis ahead of him, but I don't think either of
them are going to win it. And it's just like I think people will
point to like, oh, like Dallas is the seventh seed. It's like,
okay, well, the seventh seed is like a heartbeat away from being
the four seed. And the way basically at this point. So yeah,
no, I'm so interested to see where you went with five. So I
think, I mean, it's just I don't know what I want to do
with this. So should it just be is here can I do? I
don't want to tip my hand on All NBA because two or how many names
did you consider for five? I think you have to think about Oh man,
I think I want to say three. I think there's three names you
gotta consider, so I want to say four. I think I know who
the fourth one is. For you. Well, I considered about three or
four and then I winnowed it down to two. Oh would you like to
hear my two? I'll give you, ok Sure, give me your two
Jason Tatum Okay? And Donovan Mitchell. Oh wow, those are not my
two. Here we go. But I will say when I was doing All
NBA, those those two are I agonized over trying to figure out how to
get them onto one of the they were in the group. So I'll give
you some more names and we can just sort these out at some point.
Uh Tyrese Haliburton, who can miss? Like? What two games? Is?
That? Is? That where we're at. That's where the inconsistent I
don't and I don't know if this is inconsistent, but like he was among
the names I considered, and then it's just like you get to a point
where it's okay, he's at what is it even forget Let's say he just
hits the game minimum, Like let's say that's not an issue, and it
seems like he's really gonna try like hell to do that. He's at about
fifteen hundred minutes as we're recording this. I don't really know how to reconcile
that when we're at this level and you're looking at, Okay, well,
Donovan Mitchell has played almost five hundred minutes, or he's only played amost two
hundred minutes more than that, or Tatum's played like five hundred minutes more than
that. How much does that matter to you in the context of this MVP
SCOSI. So it matters more for MVP than I'm thinking I did on my
All NBA more recently, and I just decided, if you're over the threshold,
I do not care, Like if you're over sixty five games, like
I don't care if you played nineteen hundred minutes so far, if you've played
twelve whatever, it is, so Tatum has to be in there. I'll
I'll give you who I have. So Haliburton's in there, and you don't
have to put these down. We're just gonna talk through it. So Haliburton,
Tatum, Kawhi, and Kevin Duran. He was that, oh wow,
you are much more a KD season than I have. Apparently the I
had why there too, and I was just like, something feels off about
picking Kawhi for some reason. I feel like maybe this would beedia consist though
might penalize him for having James Harden and Paul George on his team, but
he was just he's a monster. He's been a monster this season. I
mean, like his offensive efficiency, it's like you'd think you're looking at the
wrong number. Like if you go through his monthly splits talking about Kawhi,
I he's shot over forty five percent from three in like all but one month.
It's just like in one of them is just a flat fifty percent.
And this isn't like he's not a crazy high volume shooter, but it's like
combine that with his defense. He's not peak Kawhi defense, but he's like
close enough to be real scary and it's just is dominating games physically. It's
he's just kind of I don't know what percentage would you say he is of
absolute peak Kawhi? Is he like ninety percent, ninety five percent? He's
close? And like the other thing is like when James Harden's off the court
and Kawi's on, the Clippers are still winning those by ten points per one
hundred posessions. Basically, yeah, And so it's should we just give it
to Tatum because he's the best player on the best team and we just need
to satiate, We need to satisfy the old the old school MVP criteria is
that, but we didn't go. If we didn't, if that's going to
be the criteria, he should win. Well, you know there might have
been years where he would have like probably, I mean, how many you
know have you done? I was doing the statistical breakdown of Donovan, Mitchell
and Tatum and they are just so close, Like their true shouting percentage is
identical. I this is one I'm still grappling over it because like this also
what impacts your first team all NBA discussed. I'm not going to have a
different top five from MVP than I have first team all in BA like that.
I like, can you unless I come back and say, you know
what, I changed my mind. I want my MVP VOWT. That's one
thing I'm still just like up there, I did. So I'll tell you
who I have written down at the moment and you could talk to me about
it. I've Donovan Mitchell written down the stretch where he was, and what's
tough for me is like he hasn't played that many more minutes than a Tyrese
Haliburton and Tatum's played way more, and I want to pick Kawhi, but
there's also like, okay, when Kawhi plays without Paul George and Harden.
The Clippers haven't been very good during those stretches, but don Van Mitchell helping
the Caves navigate when they were just so brutally banged up, and like the
adjustments he made as a passer, the adjustments he continues to make as a
score where it's not always the Donovan Mitchell show. When you're watching the Cavs
offense, they are playing faster with shout out carosl Vert for helping them really
do that off of rebounds, and he's just been so much more adaptable this
season and some of the efficiency numbers have come down. He's only at like
thirty five something percent on off the dribble threes. But you know who's not
hitting their off the dribble threes again this year? That'd be Jason Tatum and
don Van. Mitchell does not have a heavy defensive workload, but neither is
Jason Tatum. When you're playing with Drew Holliday and Derek White and even having
christophs porzingis behind you, and I know Mitchell has the same luxury with Jared
Allen. But Mitchell's found himself in like tougher matchups than I think people realize
because of the time that Mobiley and Garland even missed just by virtue of being
a point guard, You're gonna find yourself in these for matchups. I didn't
know how to delineate between the two, and I ultimately feel like why I
almost want to go with Tatum is not because he's the best player on the
best team. It's I'm saying I'm going with Mitchell, But I'm still wondering
I just penalizing Tatum because the Celtics are so good without him. Is that
really what this comes down to for me. But it's my whole thing is
what is Donovan Mitchell the best at on his team relative to what Jason Tatum
is the best at on his team? And I don't know if Jayson Tatum
is gonna check as many boxes, like he's the best scorer on his team,
but is one the margin is not gonna be as big between Tatum and
and Brown. And then it's like in terms of shot creation, like I
guess he's still gonna win that, but he's is he gonna be He's not
the best passer. I think you can make a case that Donald Mitchell has
been the Cavs best passer this season, even though Darius Garland exists. Those
are the two that I got hung up on. And so I have Mitchell.
I've not written him down yet because I'm kind of want to see where
you go, and I'm prepared for you to talk me into do we just
collectively go Tatum here and move on? I feel like the safest answers Tatum,
but like I should admit, like I I have, I have Kauhi
on my own NBA first team, So like, by that logic, Kawhi
should be my fifth And because We've already talked about the other four, So
we shouldn't Kawhi just be my be my fifth place MVP guy. I don't
know, like it seems like it should be that simple I gave. I
did not give Donovan Mitchell the credit that I should have. He should be
in this mix just looking at the numbers comparatively right now. And he has
the narrative angle too, just like the car I carried this team that everybody
thought was cooked when you know Evan Mobley and Garland and like everybody was hurt.
So he has I think though, in addition to the best player,
best team narrative thing for Tatum, there's also the idea that like, oh,
he's like sacrificing everybody kind of likes that angle. I don't know how
true that is, but that's very much out there. So if you're just
looking for another reason to to favor Tatum, you could some people would be
persuaded by that. I think Kawhi is the best player of those guys that
we've talked about. Do you think that's fair? Do you? Uh?
I guess like when healthy? Yes, But how's that fact turned in?
Even what I mentioned? What I was gonna say how much should these anecdotal
arguments matter? Where it's so we're gonna also penalize Tatum because his team wasn't
like banged up at some point in the season. Yeah, it, this
is hard, but I am interested. So you're fine with having someone on
your top five MVP ballot and not making All NBA for the NBA first team,
Well that's the thing, Like I guess, I guess you're forcing me
to like decide if my criteria is slightly different, which I guess it probably
is, because the volume of playing time for me for all NBA is once
you're over the threshold, I don't care how much more or less you have
than everybody else that's over that threshold. Whereas MVP, like yeah, if
there's a five hundred minute difference, like that is a measure of value,
right like that that should that should matter. So yeah, I don't know.
I I so if you're gonna go Mitchell, I'm not gonna talk you
out of it. I think I'm gonna stick. I think I'm gonna stick.
And this is like I hate being controversial, but I also need to
get to a point where like this is what I believe in this moment,
and it could change. I have Dono Mitchell, and then I have Jason
Tatum six, and then just because we talked about Kawhi, I did have
Kawhi seventh, and I will say the stuff with Haliburton just not like I
understand that's only two hundred minutes a year, five hundred minutes there, but
like he was still targeted on defense for so much of the year. It's
clear how important he is. These players, they're not even going after Don
Mitchell's been better defensively than tires Haliburton. This see like surprise surprise. Both
players have the name that I couldn't get I thought about, but I just
couldn't get there with. And I'm not trying to insult him because he's gonna
make an All NBA team was Jalen Brunton. It was like someone who else
was in this group for me, I just couldn't get there with Haliburton.
If like we had an eight, like if I was gonna go eight deep,
I think I had Haliburton eighth. I'll go double check there, but
like Brunton was on my my shorulder list there, but I'm gonna stick with
Mitchell. I had Mitchell, Tatum, and Kawi since those were the names
that we predominantly he talked about, Yeah, all right, so I'm gonna
go Kawhi. I'm gonna have KAUI be my number five was completely reasonable,
if not the correct choice. Well, no, it's just like this chunk
of guys is really difficult. The top four was a different thing. So
I'll go Kawhi five. I think I'm gonna go Tatum six, Mitchell seven.
He really did talk me into Mitchell and just to just to complete it.
I think I'm gonna put Haliburton eight. I think I think the volume
does hurt him there, and look he might we don't have Ty Haliburton eight.
I don't think I'm gonna double check my list make sure to have Jaalen
Brunton ahead of him, since I have a separate Oh I did, am
I gonna stick with that? No, I'm not gonna say I'm gonna put
Tyrese there, and then I would have I don't jail Bruns like Jalen Brunton.
By the way, he will probably finish top ten at MVP voting as
of now, would be my guest. That's a hell of an accomplishment.
Yeah, I'll give you my nine and ten I have. I have Durant
was someone that I really did give thought to putting on LNBA first team.
So he's gotta be. I gotta go Durant nine and I'm gonna homer it
and have Steph ten edging out Jalen Brunson. Ooh okay, So you had
Kevin Rant nine and you had who step Steph Curry ten. That's Steph has
been clutched as hell this year. So I had Jalen bruns in nine,
and I think this one's gonna is that why I had nine. I feel
like I don't even know my own list at this point. I did not
have Wow. Oh No, I had Jalen Brunson. I had him ahead
of Tyrese, So I did that, but I changed it, so Tyrese
jailing at nine, and then my tenth was Lebron James. I this is
not just am I giving him the age thirty nine bump. Maybe this dude
is shooting like a trillion percent on pull up three pointers this year, still
hitting his twos in an unbelievable clip. The way He's still able to take
over games as both scorer and passer he is. The Lakers defense is all
over the place. They're worse with Anthony Davis on the floor, So those
are proof that numbers can be allowed. He has not been among the the
Lakers like defensive issues. And I think the whole Lebron and ad have played
like double the amount of possessions together this season so far than they played all
of last year. And the Lakers are basically a worst team or the same
team that to me just has more about the supporting cast that's a round them
and how they're faring. So I did have Lucy, I guess I went,
I did go how many deep did I go here? I went like
fourteen or thirteen names deep? But I had Devin Booker after Lebron, and
then I had I talked about. I did have Steph and I had Kevin
Durant was in there as well. But like these are these are my ten.
I feel I don't feel great about the tenth spot that after like me
figuring out the Mitchell Tatum Kawhi thing, that's that was like the toughest,
probably because it's the last one. Yeah, I think for me, I'm
trying to see, like so the difference we have, so our top eight
is the same, just in a slightly different order. And I think after
that eight is where it gets kind of like, yeah, you know that,
that feels like the cutoff of where it's like we're not really talking about
guys that have a shot at winning it anymore. And the thing for me
too is like, so when you're looking at brunts in and this will impact
like when we tell about all MBA the level of difficulty on his role not
having I understand you can't penalize guys for having a better supporting cast, like
what he needs to drive in the confines of for most of the time,
imperfect spacing, even when most of the Knicks's best players are available. Like
I value stuff like that and so and I think people will criticize, well,
the Lakers aren't good, the Warriors aren't good. This is like the
value that Steph and Lebron are bringing to the table right now. Like even
people put point out, why is a phoenix sun on here? It's like,
well, Kevin Rant hasn't missed a shot like ever in this season,
well unless it's the fourth quarter. So just like I, this is tough,
man. I don't feel good about my bottom of the ballot. I'll
say that I wouldn't be able to change it with a million times. It
really this, you know, with what is there like a third of the
season left as we're recording this, it's gonna be Jokic or Sga. I
like, wouldn't you be stunned if I mean, I guess Luca. If
Luca went on like a crazy heater and the MAVs, you know they've been
hot, but if they won, you know, well, they were the
best team in the league the rest of the way record wise, and Luca
like sustained his numbers. I think we might really have a three man race.
What I also think is interesting is how many fucks does Yokic give about
winning this award, because like we could get to the middle of marsh and
if he just like hits cruise control until the playoffs, that's gonna imp that.
Like that'll help SGA, but it'll also help Giannis and uh do more
like those. That's why I still think those three guys are in play.
I just can't. I'd be shocked if it was someone other than personally,
I'd be shocked to it with some other than Doncic, SGA or Jokic,
but like Giannis wouldn't be flooring because he's that good. Yeah he is.
I think he's got a pretty serious uphill climb just because of how down everyone
has been on the bucks for most of the year and like disappointed by them.
But yeah, you know, look, it's I think you get past
those top three or four and then we're we're just kind of having fun with
this. So that was like half an hour on MVP, right, Yeah,
so we'll go quicker on because I don't think these other ones are as
controversial. Like we said, now, only the first three names matter more
than the honorable mentions. So are you good with do you want to pick
a different award or do you want to go to defensive? No dealer's choice.
I hijacked the our order so you can pick the next one. Well,
you know what, let's go to? Can we go to one that
I feel like should just be like easier, like and quick? Sure,
let's go to Clutch Player of the Year. Okay, who do you do
you want to just give me like who your who? Your three are here?
Or what your ballot looks like for Qutch? Yeah, let me pull
this up here? Okayh man, I'm such a homer. So Steph is
my clutch player of the year. Wait, no, you're not. You
know why you're not a homer. I also pick Steph. Okay, so
I'm sure I'm a million percent sure you saw this as like he's got the
most clutch points he's hit, Like he's like twenty eight to fifty nine from
three or something absurd like that, and the Warriors are like plus three in
his one hundred and some odd clutch minutes. Don't care, Like you can't
tell me the guy's making a million threes and scoring the most clutch points,
and like he's not helping them be better than they'd otherwise be. Sore.
There is ample room for pushback on the basis of, like he's been great,
but the Warriors have not been a good clutch team at all, So
like that's fine, but he's I think he just had to be number one
for me running this is I mean, there's a lot of ways to go
here. I have DeRozan as my number two. Oh wow, we're a
step here, are we? We probably just researched the same way. Why
don't you give me your number three just to change it up. I honestly
forgot my number three. Let me look at this. I'm like stunned that
we had from the pool of players that were here, did I? I
think I can't remember if I had is it? Let me scroll up here?
Oh, I have Jokic as my number three, and it was between
what's ironic, it was between him and Shay for my number four. I
guess Shay is my number four. Was like those two that it came down
to. I didn't go that deep on this after the top couple, but
just you can just put these in any order. I think I'd probably go
Dame as a a B third for me. Kobe White has quietly had like
a that's two bulls in the clutch clutch leaderboard here another guy had, Derek
White has had a great clutch season. And Yokich is also on my on
my down ballot pick I also had. So you've had Yokich there. Like
you said, that order doesn't Why do I keep doing this? Uh?
That order doesn't matter for you? I had. I did go fairly deep.
Oh no, wait, I stopped. I have Luca at five and
that's where I stopped at her mind out. Uh, the look when you
go to so you mentioned like the shots made, but if you do care
about like numbers, impredictable has a clutch win probability added, and so like
it calls it from all these different stats. Giannis comes in at one,
Shay is two, Steph is three, Jokich is four, Doncic is five.
So like our our picks line up pretty well with that. I did
ultimately go with Steph though when you look at the number of clutch shots he
has hit relative to everybody else, I know part of that is, well,
you need to be in these situations to make those shots, and so
this to be an indictment of how much clutch time the Warriors have played.
But like the gap is just so like not even close. When you're looking
at the total shots made, he has made fifty one shots in the clutch,
which is thirteen more than second place, which is DeMar de Rosen.
And the Aaron Fox is up there again at thirty seven at number three.
So and by the way, Yokic, I didn't know this number five and
Shay is eight, So there you go. I feel better about some of
my choices here. Crazy stat similar same vein So when I this is a
couple of days old now, But Steph had twenty eight made threes in the
clutch. That's that's more than the next two most prolific three point hitters combined,
which is Buddy Heel has eleven and Derek White has ten. So he's
and this is like he's fifty point five percent from the field, forty seven
point five percent from deep, like this is with every team, every person
in every arena knowing like, don't let him one touch the ball to shoot
the ball, and he's making half of his half of a ridiculous volume of
clutch shots like that. You have to factor in the degree of difficulty like
a little bit because like I guess, like this is a this is an
argument too for DeRozan because like DeRozan's just creating these shots, like it's very
different from Steph where it's just like DeRozan just goes to work, you know,
inside the three point line and gets buckets and a ton of free throws
by the way too, for both Steph and DeRos And that's another big factor
in them rating highly. He isn't dame like shooting like perfect from the line,
which is which is forty five that is bonkers in the clutch from the
foulon. Yeah, I think I'm glad we had Steph. Oh. Yes,
let's see Steph's thirty five to thirty seven from the foul line in the
clutch. Not bad, it's ridiculous. I mean, if the Warriors were
a little bit better, he would be shooting up MVP vallids too, which
is wild. He doesn't. He does not have a chance though. All
right, that was good. That was a quick one, because who cares
about clutch like it's there's cut. There's many people who are mad, like,
who do we forget? Well, I mean, well, you did
mention Kobe Wise. Why didn't Kobe White win this award? Now? Caruso
on here or uh, I don't know, Trey Young or somebody. I
was surprised you had Dame. I know he's shooting well on twos in the
clutch, but he's been pretty off from three because he made a game winning
shot this year Dan in his dame time. That's why. That's awesome,
that's really fair. But that's why if we if I went strictly by that,
if feels like Shae should win. Just not even looking at but I'm
just thinking of moments in my head that it would be if it was completely
anecdotal, I'd probably go with Shay. Yeah, right, if it will
I mean, if you said step is probably the answer. But like if
you said, you know, it's a last second possession. You need someone
to get you a decent scoring opportunity, Like you could not go wrong with
Shae just because he's the hard he's the toughest cover in the league. He's
just gonna find a way to get a shot or get fouled. So like
that seems pretty clutch to me. I you know, we don't need to
go further down my ballot, but I would. I would put I guess
I would have Shay on there as like a you can't not say this guy,
but what I'm gonna leave him off your ballot? So you look at
leave him off because I only went h five names deep, I'm trying to
overcompensate by adding all these extra names if I prefer not to have to.
So if you're only going to do four, I'll do that too. Oh
I did have Luka. I don't know why I didn't write him in there,
But so, which award do we want to go to next? Now
it's your chart. Hmmm, let's pick I think let's save Defensive Player of
the Year, because that's kinda that that discussion is interesting. Oh this is
a hard one. Let's do most Improved. Oh man, I hate you.
I mean, we had to get to it, but like I don't
want to do it. This is well here's here's I mean, we both
hate this one because it's like, what does that even mean? You know
that if you're if you're deep in the NBA silo like we are, it's
like everyone's annoyed by. There's similar arguments about six man that we'll get to.
Everyone's annoyed by. The idea is like, well, this, don't
give most Improved to a guy that's young that just started playing more, right,
Like, don't give it to the guy that increases points per game by
whatever, because he went from this is the TI kind of the Tyres Maxi
argument a little bit like his role got bigger, he didn't really change who
he was as a player. I think I I like the idea of viewing
this as like who actually like improved in a way that you could point to,
like whether it's a stat or whether it's like just an eye testing,
like he's different now, like that that to me is what this award is
sort of more supposed to be about. But of course there's no actual criteria,
so you can kind of do what you want with it. Well,
the other criteria I have personally, and I will say, you'll be happy
about this. This player pushed the boundaries of it. I don't like picking
second year players. The last time I came closest to actually giving an exception
to the rule, I think it was darn Box's sophomore campaign, if I'm
not mistaken, Yeah, he had a monster second year that was defensive.
Well, if you are already coming off a rookie campaign where you can say
it's not just oh I finished in top three Rookie of the Year voting,
but like, oh, you're on this star trajectory and then you exceed those
expectations. Jay Dubb came very close to cracking my top three. He did
not ultimately, but like when you look at just like he's hitting step backs
in turnarounds and just running the offense more than he was last year. Again,
you expect to see that sort of start improvement year over year, which
is why I'm going to hold to that. But if someone comes in here
and if you're one of them and votes for J Dubb, the level pushback
I will provide is non existent. He's he's a really he's on my ballot
obviously, but like I've been so absurd in every one of your ballots right
the year, and he can you just copy paste his name in like second
place for all these awards. I know, I like he's a I think
that's right. I think he he didn't win it for me. He's like
kind of down ballot, but like he's he's I mean, the level the
type that he has this year, you cannot have said, oh, you
know at the end of last year, like yeah, I'll definitely be able
to do that. Like that just the I mean, every wide open three
he takes seems like it's going in. He can get to the basket like
just however he needs to. He's a good defense. Like he's just really
become like I know, I've been super hype, just hyperbolic, Like it's
almost a bit at this point, like how much I talk him up.
But like if that dude makes like seven All Star Games, like I'm not
going to be surprised over here. Like that's just like that is what he's
the trajectory he's on. Now, He's gone from like, oh, this
could be an All Star to it's oh, how many all NBA teams will
j Dubb make today? Where someone was I forget where it was, might
have been Twitter, where someone was like, what is what do you think
Jileen? Like if Jillan Williams hits like his ninetieth percentile outcome, like he
hits you know, of all the range of players he could possibly be,
Like he gets to you know, the top ten percent of what he can
be, who is that? And someone's like, well, Kawhi or maybe
Harden, I don't know. It's like and then you kind of squint and
you're like, yeah, kind of see both. I don't know. Is
like what if Harden and Kawhi Leonard had a baby? Because Jadub the better
passer projects to be at least than Kawhi. Yeah, it's it's crazy.
So he's where should we put him? You're not how high do you have
him on yours? No? So I didn't, Like I said, I
did three deep and then the rest are just like, if you want me
to throw my honorable like this would be a good thing. Should I just
throw my honorable mentions down I went ten deep. So I've said, yeah,
do that, do that? Okay, So I'm gonna do I'm gonna
put him all at once. How's that rather than and I'll go through him
quick fire. So I've Jalen Johnson, who I thought was gonna win the
award at one point. I trust his three pointer, even though he's dipp
blow thirty five percent. Now I trust his defensive valuability, even though the
Hawks kind of suck on that end of the floor. Just what he can
do as a playmaker connective tissue on offense. I do think he's actually is
a pretty good defender, even if he's gonna get caught out a position or
ball watching a little bit too much. I just I couldn't get there because
the level of self creation on offense compared to the players who are actually gonna
appear at top my ballot just isn't there. I've cam Thomas. I didn't
know how to treat him because it feels like he's finally just getting an opportunity.
He's improved a little bit as a passer, he has not improved a
shot selection. It's just going in. And so like I've had a tough
time reconciling that he's not a better defender. He's had moments, but he's
not a good defender. Denny Avdia was actually after Jalen Johnson, my toughest
player to leave off of here, and he might he might crack my top
three if he continues to play the way that he does. He's been a
little bit even though the volume isn't there. He seems more confident in his
three. He's more aggressive inside the arc. The passing is getting way better,
whether it's from like he's actually orchestrating from a standstill having run half court
sets or running in transition. The defense is still there. I think people
blob Coolbali will take on some of the toughest assignments, like Denny Avdya has
like one of the heavier, tougher defensive workloads in the league. He's a
lot faster and smarter than I think people give him credit for. He's just
like if they had kind of juiced up his role the way they have over
the past month or so, like from the jump, like this might have
just been his award to run away with. I have Tyrese Maxi and my
concerns are the same as yours. When I watch him, he's handling a
heavier workload and that does matter. Like we're talking about someoneho went from managing
twenty points to twenty five points or whatever it is. His efficiency is still
above average, but he's not a completely different player. He still struggles to
kind of like if he can't go north south, like a lot of his
game is just nuked or neutered. It feels like I hate discrediting him.
I've Jay Dubb was on there, Tyre's Alberton just going from All Star Superstar
to MVP Megastar. That type of jump is the hardest to make. I
just the defense bothers me a little bit. And this is again it's just
like he's so close. And this is the same with Jalen Johnson. They
might not meet the games threshold depending on what happens the rest of the year.
And then Jonathan kaminga kind of a late riser in this one, just
been absolutely swallowing worlds there. So that was like those were the ten names,
and I'm sure there are others that people could. I did see this
and it was a very someone who I actually might have been. I don't
know. I don't want to say the names. I don't want to be
wrong, but someone talking about Luka Doncic for Most Improved because of all this
stuff he's doing at different levels of offense and some of the ways he's changed
his defense and not complaining. I can't get there. Like the closest,
the closest I could have come was that first or second Steph MVP season,
whichever it was, where it was just like, oh, like, okay,
he could win Most Improved. Yeah that's right. Gosh. I remember
making that, like starting to make that argument, like MVP for the second
so I think there was a case. Well there was a case both MVP
years, but the second year it was like season and here's why it was.
It was like, right, look at all this shit, he has
a deal with No, I just I remember making the case for Steph as
most Improved in his unanimous MVP year, facetiously at first, but then being
like, I don't know this guy's way better all of a sudden, but
yeah, no, I love your your list. The only guys I didn't
have, and I just regret because I didn't think about them, were Thomas
and Haliburton. The Haliburton thing is really interesting because, like you, I
always say that about teams. It's like the hardest leap to make is not
from like forty five to fifty five wins. It's like from fifty five to
like you might win sixty two or whatever. Like the very good to great
leap is super hard. Helburton made the very good to great leap. At
the same time, it feels like he's just kind of doing more of the
same stuff, Like he's not a different guy, but like should we penalize
him for that? Like that feels like, well, that's it's hard to
do more of something like that. That's why great players have high volume stats.
And I think so he can drive his case ultimately to me is sort
of too similar to Tyrese Maxi's. But it's just like he can drive the
entire fucking thing in a way that tyres Maxie can't, which is not a
shot at Tyree's magi. Yeah, so, by the way, a late
entry into this, I couldn't pick him just because the other thing that's tough
where I think some people forget, including myself, there's a lot of recency
bias here, and so you forget that it's like a full Season Award,
But like Kate Cunningham, Yeah, lightly shooting forty percent on step back threes
this year and he's been even higher than that of late. This is just
someone he's gotten the turnovers under control. He doesn't I don't think he belongs
at the top of the ballot on this, but I just wanted to give
him sort of a shout out, and that's ultimately. I know some people
go with deep cuts, and like last year I talked about Hammadu Diallo a
little bit in this award. I'm always embearably going to value like it's not
just how big the leap was, it's how difficult was this leap. So
it's like when you're working from a lower baseline, Like we can talk about
deep cuts, but like even cam Thomas is sort of just like the baseline
from which he was working was just so low that how do you I mean,
I have him technically fifth, but I didn't after Johnson, I probably
would have had abdia fifth, to be honest with you, Yeah, I
mean if you were only measuring afdia over like the last I don't know,
five pe weeks. Yeah, just he might just win it. He's not
gonna win it. But yeah, okay, so I guess I think you
kind of have to all look all all started, maybe all start at the
top and then we'll work down. And because we've talked about it, I
hope we don't have the same guy again. Otherwise this is a terrible podcast.
I didn't think podcast, but I think we have. I think we
do. My number one is Scotty Barnes. Oh no, I have Garret
Allen. I'm just kidding. I'm Scotty Barnes too. I'm just kidding.
I was like, what did he get better? Many apologies? We owe
this guy. Uh. The Barnes case is kind of what I was alluding
to, is like he was a really suspect jump shooter and now he's like
he was better than passable for a lot of the year, but now he's
like he's almost double his volume from three thirty five ish percent thirty four point
six to be exact when I was looking this up, up from twenty eight
point one percent. He's proving that he can be like you know, maybe
you're you probably still want another facilitator, but he can run your offense.
He's become a better defensive player. He just has become it's interesting, like
he won Rookie of the Year that still felt weird to me, But he's
kind of with an interim year. In that second year where everybody was down
on him, he's kind of like reassumed the trajectory that a lot of people
who really loved him as a rookie thought he would be on. So it's
just he's added skills. I think that's the key. And he's taken on
a bigger role at the same time and has just improved in like, however
you want to categorize improvement, I feel like it applies to Scotti. Brnes.
You think that's fair, yes, And I think the big and what
really differentiates him and I think you touched on it. I just want to
drive it home, is how much different his game looks at both ends of
the floor where you know what the pull up jumper that didn't really stay,
but the stuff he's doing on interior as a facilitator as a passer. And
then his defensive role has changed under darker Ryakovic for the better. He's been
both more disruptive and smarter, so where he's just like his closeouts are better,
harder, more efficient blocking jumpers. He is a better all around player,
and I think that type of a comprehensive leap, it absolutely matters.
And so I even think you could look at it from well, if you're
like you could say, well, his sophomore year was kind of all over
the place. Is he getting that bump because he's no. It's like if
you measure him from his rookie year when he wrot won Rookie of the Year,
like he is, EON's better from that, And to say, like
I feel like this is someone who is now an All NBA caliber player moving
forward. That's not something you could say last season, maybe not something you
would have said after his rookie season. And so I won't say he's the
clear winner, but I'm surprised that I feel like how the discourse has moved
away from him. I guess because he had a rough stretch like after the
trades were made, and I think that's why the door is still open.
But like I this is still his award to lose for me, I think
that's right. I bet we have this same second guy to Kobe White is
my number two? Oh man? Yeah, yeah, he's he well,
and I'm sure our argument will be similar, like he's he's kind of the
same same idea. His role grew in a major way, and it had
to do with injuries in part, and but it also had to do with
him just getting better. And the jump he took was from like, one,
is this guy like a rotation caliber combo guard to Oh, this guy
is a starting point guard and he's a good one. Like that. It's
almost like, in addition to adding skills, he sort of solidified himself as
being capable of playing a more valuable position, which is like, that's a
that's a I struggled. I'm sure there are examples, but like, I
struggle to think of another guy that within the span of a year went from
an ify one type of player to a definite like other type, you know.
And it's like, it's not like he went from being a guard to
a power forward or whatever, but it's like, that's a really different thing.
If you can say he's got the ball every night, like he's our
primary initiator and a massive three point threat and a scoring threat, like that's
that's just a different thing. So I really value that, and so obviously
you did too, because you have the same guy at number two. Yeah,
he is just the command on the game that he has on offense.
It it belies just scoring is what it feels like right now to me.
And I think that's why I felt comfortable putting him here. And then just
the raw number jump is just you don't want to get too caught up in
that because you want to look at his role has changes. It's like,
well, no, its role has changed. Just out he's like you outlet
he's a point guard, yeah, or for general howe if you don't want
to get bogged down by handler whatever. Yeah, And so I'm assuming we
have just because you didn't question why he wasn't in my honors. We probably
have the same number three too, right, well you almost, I'm I
we probably you almost are talking me into having Jayalen Williams be my number three.
I think I better do that so that we don't have the same number
three. So I think you should go oh with like who you want to
You can have shan Gun at three, because I'm sure that's who you have.
That's that's who I had. But I'm gonna change it up, make
the shan Gun case. It's it's it's a little bit because I think you
some people could say if you don't that he's just doing more of the same.
But why is that not the case for shingun so one, because like
he's getting more touches like so that's just not the same thing, and so
the volume is there the I'm assuming that you have shang Gun at four now
for that, uh, because your hater. The defense has gotten a lot
better. I don't know how much of that has to do with Okay,
well, Jabari Smith Junior got better defensively, Tarry Eastan before the leg injury
is there doing Brooks? Is there? Fred van Fleet before he's banged up,
is there? He's in the right spots more. I think he's quicker
on defense than he's been over his first couple of seasons. And then when
you look at what he's doing on offense, there's stuff to be desired where
it's kind of like this bonus stuff where you just wish he could take and
make more, like longer range jumpers, not even just three point the way
he's able to facilitate the offense. Do you need him to lead the break?
Do you need him to be in the half court and go downhill with
his shoulder? He need to do it from the elbows and the paint on
the block whatever. He can facilitate the offense from all over the floor.
Also has like a lead ball handler, which is something that and I'm not
using this to discredit because I think Demontas Bonus has had a hell of a
season again, even though the kind of Sabonus without Fox minutes or thirty.
Yeah, he can jump start in offense in more ways than the Bonus,
but in fewer ways than Yokic. I hate the Jokic camp so much for
him because he just plays. He's just not like there's a more his game.
The cadence to it and even the aesthetics are just so different when you
really watch it. And so when you look at the way that he's just
able to kind of he's like this force of nature facilitator. That's how I
would almost describe it, where it's like Nikoliokic feels more cerebral, and it's
like what if Russell Westbrook, like if you took that mindset and translated it
to someone who was just passed first, And that's what Shane Guon feels like,
maybe that's not the best way to sort of go about it. And
then like, yeah, I mean you dig into the numbers and just like
those are up for him this season, and part of that is okay,
like, well they're actually using him differently, but that's gonna have to be
part and parcel of any motion improved player case anyway, And so I considered
having him. I think in the top three. I think there's a case
for any of these guys just outright winning the award I have. I'll just
throw out a couple more. They're mostly similar years. I have MAXI even
though I just dumped on the like he's just doing more KAMINGA is there for
me? Abdia is there? Jalen Johnson, for sure is there? Trying
to think if there's anybody else today, I think those are. That's kind
of where I. I mean that Halliburton, you make a good point,
like on your list, I know I do have cominga Okay, I said
him before Jalen Johnson, But that doesn't matter. The order doesn't matter.
I am. I'm wondering, like who are we? Who are we just
forgetting like does Kelly Olynic belong on this list? By d because of what
he was doing as a passer in Utah? That's ridiculous don't say that.
Hey, I'm just asking questions. I'm trying to think. I don't have
any more names on the top of my head. I'm trying to think who
would like who? Well, who were the first time All Stars this year?
Maybe that's someplace to start. We probably named a lot of them.
Let me check it real quick. This is good. I mean there were
Scotti. Who else was the first time All Star? Derek White ultimately didn't
make it. Uh. I do think I will say this, I do
you made the joke. But like Jared Allen has really broadened his offense this
year, and so I'd just like to give him a little shout. I'm
not saying he belongs on this list. I also think Max Shrus just as
a playmaker this year, the stuff that he has done there, that's another
name you could throw out, Isn't that kind of just like, I mean,
he added the off the dribble three, which is just like, become
one of the most efficient shooters and off the dribble threes. So if you
want to he was he was already Taliburt and Tye. He's Maxie case though
for him, right, yeah, I think that I was just gonna pull
him up to see like if his shot diets all that much different, I
think, I mean a lot of it, as Brunson was. Yeah,
I mean he's up four points shooting a couple more threes a game. How
about Dante DiVincenzo becoming the best three point shooter in the NBA. I was
stunned when that stat went around of him having the third third most three three
point makes in the league this year, Like I could not. I mean,
watching him all year with the Warriors last year, I liked him,
but it was just like, I understand who this player is, and there's
no room to get better. And turns out just shooting a ton more three
is there is there is room to get better. That's a good one.
Jalen Suggs, I'm just going deep cuts. Jalen Shuggs. Aaron Smith for
sure before he got injured, was there. Suggs is a really good one
because everybody who's listened to this knows, like I just would dump on Sugs
all the time, like, oh, he's got no chance. He can't
make a post entry pass, he can't make a shot. So that defense
does matter, well, now it does. Now the defense matters because he's
like a credible offensive player. I'm gonna throw this one out here, and
he's gonna come up again. Isaiah Joe, just Joe not gonna be done
so much more than anyone else realizes, not just me, but like it's
then I would say a lot of people realize, that's my my snooty Winnie
the pooh meme. You're for you to troll me for what? Now that
we've mentioned Isaiah Joe, I guess it's probably time to move on. Yeah,
time to move on. You your turn to pick. I think,
uh, let's go. I don't want to get too toxic at this point,
so let's star Click of the Year. How about we go to Executive
of the Year. It feels like it could be another quick one. Okay,
so I think we both are going to have the top number one if
we want to work our way from there. But who he regalp Wow,
we just had a twenty minute discussion on most improved Player. Anyway, So
this is one that I'm like concerned, I'm gonna forget somebody, but my
number one's Brad Stevens. Yeah, I just don't. I had and I
went on mad Boosti's which is like an NBA. It's an NBA podcast that's
actually made by the NBA, which always, by the way, it throws
me when I get a notification like, oh, the NBA tagged you in
a tweet and I'm like why, But I went on that podcast and officially
I officially apologized for underestimating the Celtics this year. Oh good, Brad Stevens.
I think the only thing that you could like. The christophs Porzingis trade
has worked out well on the court. Getting Drew Holliday has certainly worked out
well for them too, even though like his offensive scaled back, But that's
just what happens. Getting Exavier Tillman like just getting Exavier, like having that
guy on your team. You built, what should they should be the championship
favorite, but because we know the Nuggets, like, they're no worse than
the second most likely team to win the title right now. The only thing
you could quibble about is the Jail and Brown Supermax And that's kind of just
like, what did you want the guy to do? Like it's just like
you didn't really have a ton of leverage there, but if anything, it's
not your money, So kudos to him for spending you know, grousebacks money.
Uh so, I think it was clearly him. It was Can I
give you my number two? And I'm not confident in it? Yeah?
Please, I'm not confident in any of the rest of these, by the
way, So I'm with you. It's my number two. Oh really?
Yeah. So I'm reticent to say this just because we might not see the
team that he built together at all this season. But like the OGI had
a ob trayed, was very much win win. But when you see not
just the impact he had defensively, but offensively by removing RJ. Barrett's ball
handling and the way that the Knicks were using him, the Raptors are I
feel like the Raptors are using him differently, even though that R J.
Barrett continues to say that they're not. It was a risk, but it
was panning out before the injury, and then to go out and make the
boy on mcdonovich move at the deadline. I think he's not been great for
them. He I think he's gonna be huge, like he eventually said on
his role come playoff time, I underestimated. I said that Dante DiVincenzo signing
was fine, and Nick Stanser, like we we cured our floor spacing.
One, No, he didn't, but two you came a lot closer to
it than I thought you were going to do because he turned to the best
three points shooter in the league. And that story that Fred Katz and I
think Anthony Slayer the Athletic did about him learning from Steph was really good.
People should check it out. I actually did not finish it, so that's
me sort of like that's like retweeting it without reading it, I guess,
but go read it anyway. So I'm just wondering if, like, are
we overwaiting this because it's still so much of a concept. But I think
you look the roster they built, even the Josh Hart deal is just like
to get him to opt in and then extend, so gave you more flexibility
this year under the hard cap. That was very smart maneuvering there. So
I do think he belongs in number two for now, But there are definitely
other candidates that I think could still like sneak up on them. Yeah,
those were the two good I preface this by saying, I'm sure I'm forgetting
somebody, and I don't feel good about any of the rest of this.
Those are my top two. And you know, I don't think there's any
room to argue there. I don't really have an order for my next three
names. You need to pick a third. You know I'm gonna. I'm
gonna you need to pick a third. All right, I'm picking a third.
I think I am I gonna really do this, don't I think I'm
gonna do Darryl Morey. Oh all right? Well, I think Chris Paul
and James Harden would disagree, but please kick I mean, so he gets
off the James Harden thing. I mean I can't. I already said it.
Whatever got off the James Harden situation created that? He created? What
else he did when I wrote this up for br the other day? What
else did Daryl? What? What else have the sixers done here? Kelly
or bray On? The minimum was good? What else did they do?
The hiring Nick Nurse was clearly a good hiring. Nick Nurse was smart.
Moving on from Doc Rivers was smart. There was another transaction though that Uh
now, I can't remember who's your third while I think about it. So
I have Kevin Pritchard of the Pacers. A lot goes into this, I
think, so one look at what happened with the Bruce Brown deal and how
you were able to use that as primary salary matching in the Sakham trade so
that you didn't need get to whom you needed to include Jarris Walker or Betta
mcmathern. And then just look at the passcal Seakam trade in a vacuum where
it's yeah, Kashi, three first rounders. Guess what two of those are
gonna be? What bottom ten in this year in this year's draft, which
everyone seems to hate. That's a huge swing. I like the Jarrifs Walker
stuff is TVD. He clearly has not been good enough defensively, which is
why he's not seeing the floor. You know, he's been good enough defensively
to see the floor. Ben Sheppard, that's a nice little pickup by them.
I guess you can quibble over, well, did they get good value
from the Buddy Heel deal with just seconds? And shouldn't they have just let
him leave if any want wasn't even more valuable to them. That was the
other Sixers thing I liked, the Healed trade. That was one of the
other ones I liked, So I get not liking that, but just sort
of having the I mean, by the way, getting Haliburton locked up with
he doesn't even have a player option on his deal, correct, So that's
a that's a win for I'll double check that in case I don't want to
be too wrong on that. But so that's just even getting him to sign
the extension is just I'm gonna say that's a win, even though it was
kind of a no brainer for him. So I the trade really did seal
it for me. I did. It gave me pause though, of course
when you look at and no, he does not have a player option apparently,
So I mean that's look, there's the language to get the Supermax.
They'll be happy to pay it if he's gonna make any will probably if he
meets the game's minimum. So I like a lot of what the Pacers did,
and I think they've kind of been understated. There's some tv D neis
to there, but the fact that we don't look at jars Walker and say,
well, he was definitely the wrong pick, Like we haven't seen enough
of Taylor Hendrix to say that. We haven't even seen enough Bilakulabali to say
that. So I really like and I also feel like this might be a
reflection of how not sparse the field is, but just how it didn't feel
like this was a seismic off season or like even year for trades. Because
are you gonna give it to Lawrence frank for just like pulling off the James
Harden trade? Is that something you're gonna do? I mean, sure,
if you want, Like if you want, if that's your logic, I
think you could make a case for if you want me to throw. I
have a bunch of other names here, like I got a couple more.
Maybe one of these is yours in no particular order. But what about Raphael
Stone in Houston? Like yeah, changed the culture of the franchise new head
coach. I think aman Thompson was still a defensible pick there. The Dylan
Brooks contract has worked out the van fleet like just the the weird at the
time, right, it was strange that like what is he Houston just gonna
throw all this like short term money at guys and try to compete like most
of you struggle to empowering Shangoon. I guess although is brook Lopez actually the
Rockets executive of the year for not signingon become who he became. That's that's
I don't know, but I think he deserves mention, right, Like the
Rockets have really have way more hits than Missus transactionally for the last but you
know, eight ten months, Yeah, I had him. He was my
fifth, but I didn't really rank these for my fourth and I didn't like,
I didn't really know how to reconcile this. But like the Cavs,
low key had a heck of an off season. When you leave getting Max
Strews, it seems like Dean Wade should and Sam Merril should be playing over
George Yang at this point. But to have the option of the Yang who
really did help you now a gate those injuries exceptionally well, getting carosel Vert
back on a deal that's eminently movable and he's been helping you, I think.
And the Craig Porter Junior find by the way, Yeah, so I
had him. I have there's one, so I do think, and I'm
maybe I'm over compensating because I destroyed him when he made this deal. But
Sam Presty getting Cason Wallace is a big deal then going out and like Gordon
Hayward at the deadline, where it's like you're sort of rolling stuff into it.
That's someone who deserves to mention. I also had how many more names
do I have here? I have one more? Give me yours. By
the way, you're never gonna go wrong putting Sam Presty on a list of
the league's best execs. They just couldn't do it. Unless I'm forgetting something
they didn't do too much. No, they didn't. I think Mike Dunlevy
had did a really good job, like Pajemski where he got him, Trace
Jackson, David last pick of the draft is playing rotation minutes that got off
the Jordan Poole contract. I mean, whatever you think about Chris Paul.
Like now, Jordan Poole's contract is in the conversation for one of the worst
in the league. He's gotten benched in Washington, which is really hard to
do. Not extend Klay Thompson, which I think some other executives might have,
like just you know, out of I don't know sentiment, so like
there's there's nothing major there, but like some bullets dodged and like just an
objectively very good draft. Uh So, I think I think he's not like
a top three, but I think he warrants a mention. No that you
made a k I didn't even you, I like kind of just I don't
I love pod So I don't know why it impacted that. In two more
names, I had one of them your dal Mory again long list in rank
them, Lawrence Frank just like the Clippers having the guts that you have PJ.
Tucker on their roster. Now, uh, my other I think I
have two more names, so this one I'm not kidding, like the ability
for them to actually reset Michael Winger, Will Dawkins in uh in Washington.
I think Davis Vernon will mention and I think this is gonna draw criticism.
And I don't even know who you can't like could you technically even vote for
him? But he had a good trade deadline, and it turns out they
had a good draft when we thought they were terrible. You see it.
Take this award on the way out to your consult your quote unquote consultant job.
I'm just I'm saying he set if he wasn't the one making any of
those decisions, Okay, fine, like he set the Hornets up really nicely
moving forward. Now I wouldn't have kept him either, but let's let's give
him his flowers for how he left. You and I have not talked Hornets
much at all ever, but especially not lately. I suspect that you're with
me in like I kind of like the Hornets direction right now. I kind
of I did ten minutes on them on like the news catch up there and
look, they just hired they have like their new lead exec. And like
that's a big deal Jeff Peterson. Peterson. Yeah, so we'll see how
he does. I think it's good that that look you have him in now
he can evaluate the talent that's on the court and then he goes to the
draft, the off season free agency process. But yeah, he come check
being the face of the front office through the trade devil. I'm just saying,
like the Hornets, we all killed them for not taking Scoot Henderson.
But it's kind of like the only thing I don't understand, and this is
a different maybe when we do our all league mail bag, which if you
have questions for teams, specific teams or players, We're gonna do an all
email bag I think next week, So email us Harmer Knox at gmail dot
com or get in our discord. But the whole should they get rid of
Lamello and build around brend and Miller. I just don't understand where it's like
those guys are on the same timeline. What is it like? Why are
we making Yeah? I think I think LaMelo is an imperfect player, but
like that is a that is not someone you move off of right now.
I think the more talent that's around him, the more excited I am about
LaMelo. I'm trying to think if we if there's anybody else. You mentioned
Kobe Altman. I think that was a good one. I appreciate you said.
I don't do you think Danny Ainge slash Justin Zadak deserve like any they
did get you on Collins, I like Taylor HENDRICKX, I like Keante George
I. I was like kind of disin not disenchanted, but unimpressed by their
trade deadline though, So I just don't know, Like I think, I
think we've covered it between I think you. I wouldn't. I wouldn't quitval
with anybody say any credit for the Raptor's tear down? No, no,
too long, too long? Uh did finally did it, but it took
too long in my turn to pick uh, Well, since it's the only
one I can see on the sheet. Right now, let's do coach of
the Year. I like it. Who's your Who is your coach of the
year? I would sure it's the same as you. It's Mark Dagnall the
Thunder, right, is that what you have? No? Yes, no,
of course. So like I think the way I in my ride up
I did for br it's really I think Chris Finch is the other one that
I think a lot of people are gonna throw out there, and I just
think it's fine if you want, I'm gonna put Chris Finch too, just
because Minnesota is very good. Might win the top top seed in the West
right there with Okay. See, But the fact that like these are the
two teams that we get to compare, it's just like it's it's not close
for who's like had the harder job, for who has done the more complete
job? Right Diagnal's roster is I think it's the second youngest in the league.
But like for all intents and purposes, it's it's by far the youngest
good roster in the league. And you know, the rosiest outlook on the
Thunder, which which we I don't think I remember. I think one of
my hotter takes was like the Thunder are going to take the small step forward,
but the leap's not coming. The leap came. It's a bigger leap
than anyone could have expected. He's doing this with mostly young players. I
know there's a ton of talent, but like inexperience is a real thing and
he has just overcome that. Like, yeah, Sga kind of makes things
pretty workable. But like the Thunder play small, they play fast, they
still don't have a ton of bigs. They drive like crazy, like by
design it's driving kick, driving kick, driving kick. They also somehow despite
being really small. This is again it's his scheming. This is taking charge.
This is using other Jalen Williams effectively lowest field will percentage all out at
the rim, just like you. Compare that then with Finch, who has
much more veteran talent, whose team's offense is mid pack sixteenth in the league
according to Cleaning the Glass, with like legit offensive talent. Right like you
have Anthony Edwards, you have Carl Anthony Towns, who, whatever you want
to say about him, maybe the most prolific, not the best, but
prolific stretch big we've seen in terms of like volume and stuff like that should
just be a skeleton key for your offense if you have a big guy that
can shoot like that. The fact that he's a four, I guess changes
it a little bit. But I would say the turnovers too, like I'm
gonna put some of the turnovers on the coach and the scheme and stuff,
and the Thunder do not turn the ball over nearly as much as the Wolves
do despite being way younger. So that's that's my that's my comparison there between
those top two candidates. The only thing I add to Mark Dagnel is also
having the gall and license. I'm sure part of that Sam Presty alarm too,
like we're gonna bench Josh Giddy during important moments, or we're gonna take
lou Dord out of the game and really work the lineup and the matchups.
I think that's that's a great job by him and his coaching staff with Chris
Finch. The reason I didn't pick him is just I look at the Wolves.
I'm like, well, how much is this? The Wolves are just
healthier, And I actually think you mentioned Karl Anthony Towns of all the players,
Like when you're looking at how creatively they're used or the difference in how
they play, it feels like he's actually impacted. Maybe Karl Anthony Town's is
the most in a good way. And then it's like you look at everybody
else, it's like, Okay, Ant's made sort of this natural progress,
but is he being used in inventive ways? And is Rudy Gobert is like
a little bit more expansive, but like he hasn't been used a super inventive.
Yeah, it's way easier to just point to the talent right for Finch,
So I don't you don't have it on the screen right now? I
was Finch on your top three at all? Or do you have him up
there? Uh? Who? I scrolled off to sco oh yeah, because
I was trying to see what we still had left. Sorry, I've cringe.
I've cringch Chris, Chris Finch is now cringed. He's five for me.
I guess part of it's also I was so high on Minnesota heading into
the season that it was just sort of like I couldn't quit them. So
my underrest undervaluing him from that perspective. My second guy is Joe Mizula.
In Boston. Uh, it's the best coach on the best team. No,
Uh, I think we're He became a meme last year because of time
outs and stuff. The fact that he had to take over unplanned mattered,
and he was a first year at coach. This like the pieces that they're
wove, they've woven together, Like that's not easy to do. Like you
have Al Horford coming off the bench, you had Drew Holliding and Christops porzingis
being inserted into prominent roles. You've gotten enough out of like some of your
bench players where you look at, oh, things could get iffy for the
Celtics after their six best players, Like, no, they're sort of figuring
it out. The defense is absolutely monstrous. It still feels like there's offensive
shortcomings, but it feels like a bug of the roster rather than a fault
than like, oh, Joe Mazzula doesn't know how to how to do this
the way he's able to futt and fiddle and pull different levers with the lineup
combinations. I went with two for him, and like, we have to
pour one out for the Celtics at some point, Like this is like one
of the most dominant team statistically we've seen in some time, so I just
feel like he's and again this might be another over compensation. I look at
what he's done. He's also one of the most efficient coaches when it comes
to out of the time out plays, So like that's a big deal to
me, and it kind of reinforces that, oh, this is someone who
is a tactician. I will go to my number three And there might be
some recency bias here, but like Eric Moolser's never won the award and he's
not gonna win it this year. But like the Heat just being top ten
in defense despite you know, the revolving door of transactions and injuries that they've
had, and now they're starting to perk up on offense even though they're dealing
with all these injuries. Even though if you I'm gonna ask you this right
now, if the playoffs started today, do you think the Heat even know
who's in there starting five for sure beyond Jimmy Butler and bam Adebayo. No,
And I think I think that's true. And I think like Spolster's just
the best coach in the league, right Like, I think that's just that's
where we are. So it's kind of the thing where you could just give
it to him every year, like it used to be that way with Popovich.
I think Papovich is not that at that level anymore. I don't think
that's any great revelation. But like, Spolster's the best coach in the league.
So Spolstra is not my third, he probably should be. I have
no argument there. I have Missoula three. I'm surprised I have Thibodeaux four.
And it's just like I put a huge value on a coach that like
somehow just gets the guys to always play hard. And like I think,
you know, the Knicks have been at least you know, they've changed what
this roster looks like over the course of the year. But I think building
this was not an easy team to like structure offensively or defensively really, because
like you know, everybody knocked them for like, well they just get offensive
rebounds and kick out threes, AND's like and I feel like Thibodau' is like,
yeah, we'll just do that, that'll work. And then when the
roster changes again, it's like, yeah, we'll just be a different kind
of team. And then when the entire front court's hurt all the same times,
like, yeah, we'll just keep winning. I guess I will get
so the the as hard as the Knicks play, that's just not every coach
gets that from his team, and Tis always gets that, and he's gotten
it this year, and I think it's been like a challenging job and he's
been highly successful with it. So like not top three, but I think
I think he just warrants inclusion there. Yeah, I only had and I'll
pay them all here. I only had a top five ranking. So Thiboeau
did make my long list with other so like the fact that he's behind Jacquma
and Biker Staph and Udoka. It's not but it's not. It wasn't a
ranking, but he did make a fired coach in your in your sixth five.
That's amazing. No, I'm sorry, I meant. I meant Jamal
Mosley. I didn't mean to have there. You should have left it.
That would be amazing. So yeah, uh that's nice, little typeo,
but Jamal Mosley. So my actual fifth guy was Tyron lou In on the
Clippers. And just like the integration of James Harden, that's not easy.
And to get James Harden to play differently also not easy, and just like
yeah, yeah, and then just like there's there's weirdness where it feels like
they're not as good defensively as they should be. But we've also seen moments
where they just racked, not so much against the Lakers the other night,
but just moments where they ratchet it up and they're just destroying guys. I
think that we've seen he's able to mess with lineups in a way where it's,
oh, does he know how to use Russell Westbrook properly? But like
the fact that Russell Westbrook has been not irreversibly damaging to this team is a
credit to Tyron Lewin, like getting him to buy into a smaller role,
putting him in certain lineups. And then also just like seeing it feels like
he knows when to play plumbly or a Tys and it's like I kind of
like to look with Tys more than plumblee. And maybe you have issues with,
you know, the usage of like the backups there, but like,
look at the strides that Zubots has made under him over the past few years.
I just think his job's not easy because you had And also just like
Paul George having to change the way that he operates, and you could say,
well, look, this is what happens when you have your guys more
available than not. And it's like, well, the Clippers are really good
when they've been not so much recently. But I think his job has been
just the James Harden integration, you could say, looking at the value they
gave up, Yeah, you make that trade all the time, and it's
yeah, but he's such a hard piece to integrate after training camp. Yeah,
so I have to. I wanted to give him his flowers, but
you're you're Thibodeaux points are they're definitely selling it. No lose the next guy
for me right after Thibeau, you could, you could have. You could
put him as high as three if you wanted to. I think, because
for all the reasons you said, so lose there just a couple other guys
I would mention I have Nurse right after lou just because like, it can't
have been that easy to kind of access a slightly new version of Joel Embiid,
which he sort of did, like getting him the ball in a different
place on the floor, and like, yeah, of course it makes like
his em beads touch and like you know, mid range jumper in just like
unguardability, Like yeah, that's great, but like that's such a bit like
in this era to be like we're gonna get a guy a bunch of shots
from the elbow, like that's our plan, Like we're gonna isolate him at
the elbow essentially and not run as many picking roles as we used to.
Like that's that's risky at the very least. And you know, I don't
know how you weigh the fact that, like, well, Embiid is gonna
miss half the season, but I just thought that was good Udoka and Bickerstaff,
So I have the next two of yours, but I just flipped them.
I'm trying to think, who else? What do you think about Carlisle?
Do we just credit Haliburton for the Pacers style or does Carlisle deserve any
credit for that? I feel like they've made some This would be a better
question for Tayling Cooper, like they've made He's made a lot of concessions,
it feels like over the past couple of years there and so it's like you
kind of look at the Pacers offense and the lineups that he runs where he's
Kew's small, and he clearly doesn't exert as much control over it from the
side lines. I think he's a Again we're talking about like we're going more
than a third of the league deep here. That's also why I have I
feels like Pelicans fans get frustrated with him a lot, but like, when
you look at this team on paper, you should not be a top seven
defensive team, and guess what you are. And he has priors that show
like this is a guy who knows how to coach defense and his opponents,
his teams when it comes to like getting back in transition or running these lineups
where it's like, why are they good defensively when like Jonas Valencudas is on
the floor and he's in Ingram neither none of those guys are good defenders.
Ingram could be fine at points, but yeah, like and Zion is definitely
like the point he was at last year before his injury, it felt like
he was turning a corner defensively, and very much this year it doesn't necessarily
feel that way. The way CJ. McCollum is defended this year as kind
of like someone coming out of the corners and that's been great for the Pels.
So just a name to throw on like the long list. But like
you look at some of these names and like, let's use Willie Green as
an example, or even Rick Carlisle. Their team just shoot up the standings,
down the stretch runt like they could find themselves in an entirely different order.
Because Coach of the Year is always just loaded. I think Dagnault has
it unlock, but Coach of the Year is always sort of where it feels
like the margins are thinnest. Oh, just put Spolstra on mind too.
There just as I can't explode. You didn't even mention him on your owner
videos. Do you want him? I'm gonna put him at the bottom and
make you feel really good. Fine, I just need him to be there.
He's like a Coach of the Year, Coach of the Year candidate.
He married, he has tenure, like he's just gonna be win it at
some point, right, He's got to win it at some point. We
are cutting our awards off there because it is late and we will publish.
We have Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, and six
Man of the Year. So three big ones We will get to those and
those will come out on Monday. But now it's time for some stat padding.
Guess a player will come back also on Monday, hopefully, so you
can send those to us if you have them, message me on Discord or
Grant on Discord. Shout out to Mike Yah has a ton of them in
the bank for I think he's the only one that has any in the bank
for me at the moment. I don't know about you, but I get
to send them to me. Yeah, let's get to some stat padding.
Grant, what do you got for me? All right? Dan? So
just to illustrate how long it's been since we spoke, we hadn't talked.
Last time we talked to Victor Wemben Yama did not have a five by five
game. He almost had two. But that has prompted a little bit of
research. Who cares about these stupid round numbers and matching aesthetic five by five
stuff? Dan? Can you name the two players who have had a five
by six game in their careers? I will give you three strikes. They've
had a five by six game in their careers. So that, just to
be clear, that's the five categories, points, rebounds, blocks, assist,
steals, got to have at least six of those. There's only it's
only happened twice. Hakeem, correct, I'll give it to the wine.
This is ridiculous, so stupid. Thirty eight points, seventeen rebounds, twelve
blocks, seven steals, six assists. This was on March tenth, eighty
seven, in a double overtime loss he lost to the Seattle Sonics. Played
fifty three. Okay, David Robinson, No, I think he's oh he
might. I think he's got a ten block game, but he does not
have. I'll give you this player obviously not active, well not obviously he's
not active anymore, but he is someone that like would have been I think
right around or just before, like when you really got into the NBA.
So we're talking like early two thousand's into like mid two thousands, maybe into
the twenty tens, when he was like in his in his prime, really
short prime too. Grant Hill, No, I can give you some teams,
the teams will give it away probably. Uh, let me just use
my third strike up here. Uh, you're mid twenty tens, he was
in his prime. I think. Let me Yeah, Basically I'm trying to
think exactly when it was also a foreign born player. All right. The
career career was from two to fifteen O two to fifteen. Who the hell
is this guy? So drafted before Lebron? My god, I don't even
have like a name to throw out there at this point. All the guys
that are coming to mind right now, like we're drafted in the nineties,
so I can't even say them. This guy was at a true unique player,
never really won a major award. He was third and Rookie of the
Year in one. O two was like it's had some top ten dp O
Y finishes a bunch of like top fifteen DPOI finishes one all defensive first team,
one second team. This guy's like all over the awards, but like
never winning him He has like some most improved votes, has some six man
votes in his second year. That's not gonna help you. That's just bizarre.
I didn't realize all that I got an angular person, an angular,
angular looking person. I guess had some cool hair. I could just give
you clues that would give it away real easily. But you're gonna have to
start. You're gonna have to start really good friends with Mikhail Prokarov ended up
playing for one of his for his team under some strange circumstances on a contract.
No no, oh no, cool hair. All right, that's my
third strike. Who is it? It is Andre Kiirlenko? He had,
wasn't he just like the flat He had like a weird flock of seagulls hair
one time for a few Oh yeah, you're right, you're right, and
had like weird spikey due so January third, two thousand and six. And
this tells you everything you need to know about the era. In a ninety
to eighty win against the Lakers, fourteen points, nine assists, eight boards,
seven blocks, six steals. He also has like, well I might,
Yeah, I can't. I can't give you more information. Yeah,
those are your those are your five by sixes. So pick it up,
Wemby. You haven't accomplished anything yet. I'll give you another one. Can
you name the two players who have had twenty twenty twenty games, twenty points,
twenty rebounds, twenty assists. The first to just be your guests for
whenever a ridiculous stat like that is thrown out there, matgew Johnson even more
ridiculous. And actually the twenty is kind of appropriate for this guy because he
one of his stats that he claimed involved twenty thousand what Jokic? No,
go way farther back? Fat Lever? Oscar Robinson? How was fat Lever?
Just like in Just Ready to be ever pops up in like every weird
statistical search that I ever do. So yeah, this guy is the guy
that pops up when you're like, that's a stupid number. Whoever did that?
Like if you were to say someone average fifty points a game for a
season or someone will, Yeah, it's Wilt. The other guy did it
in twenty eighteen nineteen Russ correct, Okay, crazy Wilton Russ just joined forever.
All right, this this one, you have fifty percent chance of getting
every one of the next questions? Right? Who has more five by four
games? So five points, five rebounds, five assists? Sorry, four
of all those things? Can you report yourself in case I decided to cut
this up? And can you say you? Can you also say which NBA
player? Sure, because we get because sometimes we talk about the defunct usbl
players, Dan who has more five by four? Which NBA player has more
five by four games? One more time? Everybody, this is you're just
watching the sausage being made. Dan, which NBA player has more five by
four games? David Robinson or Kareem Abdul Jabbar David Robinson correct thirteen to ten?
Dan? Who has more five by four games? Andre Carolinko or Josh
Smith? Josh Smith? It is Josh Smith. Good job by you.
Which NBA player has more five by four games? Michael Jordan or Ben Wallace?
Ben Wallace? Yeah, broken streak? It is Michael Jordan eight to
five. I don't know if I said Josh Smith had ten? Ak forty
seven had nine? Does Scotty Pippen or Anthony Davis have more five by four
games? Scott? It is Anthony Davis. Last, Dan, which NBA
player? Which NBA goat candidate has more five by four games? Lebron or
Kobe Lebron trick? Question? Both have zero? I hate BOMs. I
hate you all right, I have a I just I was like shocked looking
down the list, like never once you would think Lebron would have done it
four steals and four blocks? Like how hard is that for him? Uh?
Dan? Last one, this is we're getting away from players now.
Dan. There are six NBA head coaches that have at least one hundred playoff
wins. I'm gonna give you three strikes. Name four of them. Greg
Popovich correct one seventy. Eric Paulstra one oh nine, also correct. Two
guys have more than Popovich, Red warback. No playoffs weren't long enough back
in the day, not enough rounds. It's a great point two guys.
Phil Jackson correct, leader at two twenty nine. Probably not gonna see that
ever touched man whom I forgetting. It's not Doc Rivers at least you know
that, Isn't it Doc Rivers. He doesn't have more, but he does
have one hundred and eleven, so he does get you there. Uh do
you want to get? You got? You've achieved four with one strike,
so you can keep going. You can try to sweep the category. There's
only one, two, three more. You're gonna get at least one more.
I think, do you think I'm already out of Uh, I'm already
out of him? Uh? Coach the primarily the Lakers and the Knicks in
that order. Pat Riley. Damn, Yeah, that's number two. Actually
there's only one more, so and you're not gonna get him A Larry Brown
has one hundred on the dot. Steve Kerr has ninety nine. Good job.
That's all my stat padding for you. All right. I have a
couple. I have two long categories for you. Are you ready? There
are there? They're which players? So you have a fifty Well one of
them's opinion based. The first one's opinion based. Are you ready for it?
I'm so ready to I can give an opinion. That's easy. These
are gonna. I have thirty sets of players, so there are sixty players
here. Grant which NBA player would you rather have for the next five years?
Anthony Edwards or Tyre's Haliburton, gimme Tyr's Haliburton. Devin Booker or Jason
Tatum Tatum, Scottie Barnes or Kad Cunningham. Oh, that's a good one.
I think I go Scottie Barnes kids Kid's coming on. But I like
what Barnes does done this year. Jalen Brunson or Trey Young. I think
I take Jalen Brunson, Luka Doncic or Shake Gilges Alexander. I have to
say, Luka, Doncic, bam Adebayo or Chet or Chet Holmgren, Chet
Holmgren. Easy, Wow, Jam Moran or Zion Williamson. Oh, Dan,
why would you do this? I'm gonna take Jah Oh, Brandon Ingram
or Jalen Brown. Hmmm, pass no answer. I'll take Jalen Brown,
Jared Allen or Evan Mobley. I gotta take the upside with with Mobley.
That's how it's bizarre that that's that. It's hard now to answer that.
Tyres Maxie or Donovan Mitchell, Donovan Mitchell, LaMelo Ball or Darius Garland.
I think I go LaMelo, Jimai hawk As Junior or Brandon Perjemski, give
me Pods I knew it. Nicolea Jokich or Victor Wembin Yama Oh five five
years? Yeah, Oh that's horrible. Why would you? I'll take Wemby?
Why not? Wow, that's the wrong answer. Alpern Shangoon or Karl
Anthony Towns, Shane Gouon, Herb Jones or Trey Murphy the third Ooh,
give me Herb. I'll take the one premium skill. I'm sure I'm getting
there. Anthony Davis or Pascal Siakam Davis, Kyrie Irving or Damian Lillard.
Oh five years, I think I have Oh, they're actually Kyrie's like sneaky
old right, what's the difference thirty one to thirty two. I know I'm
just ruining this cut up, but I think I I think I go Kyrie.
I think I think that's the right answer based on ages. Larry Marketen
or Derek White marking in Paolo ben Caro or Jalen Williams. Jalen Williams give
me a hard one, No, that was big Jalen Williams. Wow,
Jannis attent to koopo or Joel embiid Oh, Jannis, I'm too worried about
him BID's health. Scoot Henderson or Brandon Miller. I gotta go Scoot.
I'm not I'm gonna get scared off by the rookie year. I'm not gonna
do it. I'm not jumping ship yet. Daron Fox or Jamal Murray.
I think I probably go Fox. But that's a close one. Emmanuel Quickly
or Austin Reeves. Oh Man. At this time last year, I would
have said Reeves in a heartbeat. I think I still probably go Reeves.
R J. Barrett or Jalen Green. These are such good ones here,
diabolical. I will take Jalen Green just on the upside possibility. McHale Bridges
or Franz Wagner. I think Bridges, Desmond Vane or Devin Vassell, Bain
Blah COOLi Bali or Patrick Williams cool Bally, christophs Porzingis or Domas Sabonis.
I take Porzingis wrong answer. Jalen Duran or Derek Lively the second? Hmm,
I think I probably go Lively. I'd value the defense. I know
I'm getting defense there. Isaiah Hartenstein or Mitchell Robinson. Don't I get both?
I guess I would take Hartenstein. Is that crazy? I think that's
the right answer. That's the end of that block. This one there there
is I have twenty five sets of players, and there is a correct answer.
Okay, are you ready? I'm ready? Which NBA rookie scored more
total points during their first regular season? Kevin Durant or Lebron James Lebron.
That is correct. He had Kevin Durant beat by about thirty points. Blake
Griffin or Alan Iverson Iverson. That is incorrect. Blake Griffin eighteen forty five
to Allen Iverson's seventeen eighty seven. Okay, Kareem Abdul Jabbar or Michael Jordan
Kareem Didn'tkareem Win MVP is a rookie. That is correct, but he only
had Jordan beat by like fifty points. Wow. That Damian Lillard or Donovan
Mitchell Mitchell that is correct. He had one thousand, six hundred and sixteen.
Lillard had one thousand, five hundred and sixty two. Luka Dancic or
Trey Young Trey correct fifteen forty nine to fifteen twenty six. Steph Curry or
Anthony Edwards Anthony Edwards That is incorrect. Steph had thirteen ninety nine. Ant
had thirteen ninety two. So I think I was more sure about that than
anyone we've had so far. That's why you've always been to Steph hater though
true. Derrick Rose or Andrew Wiggins Wiggins that is correct thirteen eighty seven to
thirteen sixty one. Chris Paul or Russell Westbrook Paul That is correct by two
points, twelve fifty eight to twelve fifty six. Shaquille O'Neil or David Robinson.
Oh, I'll say, I'll say the Admiral David Robbins that is correct.
He had him by one hundred points nineteen ninety three to eighteen ninety three.
Scottie Barnes or Kay Cunningham. I'll say, kid, that is incorrect.
Scotty Barnes had eleven thirty four, Kate had eleven fourteen. John Morant
or Jason Tatum Morant that is correct eleven ninety three to eleven twelve. Carmelo
Anthony or Tim Duncan Duncan that is correct by six points one thousand, seven
hundred and thirty one to Melo's one thousand, seven hundred and twenty five.
Devin Booker or Dwayne Wade Booker That is correct one thousand and forty eight to
nine hundred ninety one for Wade. Dylan Brooks or Shay Gilgris Alexander. It
better be Dylan Brooks because you put him on this question. That is that's
correct Dylan Rooks eight ninety eight, Shay eight eighty nine, LaMelo Ball or
Jamal Murray Lamello incorrect eight eleven for Jamal eight oh three for Mello, Bradley
Beale or Zach Lavine Beale correct by two points seven eighty to seven seventy eight.
DeMar Derozen or Desmond Baine who bain incorrect, Demarta Rozen six sixty two
Baines six twenty five. Kobe Bryant or Jimmy Butler. Oh man, it's
gotta be Kobe. It is correct five hundred and thirty nine. It's not
even close. Jimmy Butler scored one hundred and nine points as a rookie because
Butler was not sure to be in the league at that point for a couple
of years. Okay, yeah, but Kobe's was so low. I wanted
to see if I could trick. I was scary. I was nervous.
Joel Embiid or Scottie Pippen, I mean, is it a trick question?
Are you counting the first year that Embiid actually played, Yes, that's his
rookie season. Come on, all right, I'm just I can never know
with you, uh, Scottie Pippen or Joel Embid. I'll say Embiid that
is correct. Six twenty seven is six twenty five. Giannie at Teta Kumpo
or Zion Williamson. Oh man, the game is played. I'll stay.
I'll say Zion that is correct. Five forty five twenty five. Kawhi Leonard
or Tyrese Maxi I'll say Kawhi correct five oh seven and forty eighty eight.
Bam Adebayo or Domas Sabonis. I think Bam incorrect by two points. Domos
had four seventy nine, bam had four seventy seven. Nikola Jokic or Dirk
novitzky Ooh, Dirk incorrect and it's not even close. Nikoliokic seven ninety six,
Dirk three eighty five. Oh, double them up. Basically, that's
right. Paul George or Pascal Siakam. Paul George that is correct, and
it's not even close. Paul George four seventy six, Siakam two twenty nine.
Tracy McGrady or Franknelackina. I'm gonna say Frank, and I don't care
if I'm wrong. It is Frankielackina from sixty three to four, p.
Fifty one for t Mac, I'm curious we'll know how many people made it
to the end of this podcast by the answer to that question. I feel
pretty good about my hit rate on those I was gonna tell you had a
very high hit rate. It was actually wildly disappointing. It's pretty lucky because
they were so close that, like, I can't claim to it be like,
oh, well, it's definitely this guy. You can tell. I
don't know if our hardcore listeners enjoy this, you could tell, I know
what the YouTube shorts community wants to hear, right, I can get it
now. Just a lot of just a lot of one guy versus another guy.
Man, those were tough. The uh the Kobe one was real scary.
But yeah, I wish now I could remember, like Jimmy Butler had
I think he did. Jimmy Butler win Most Improved or is it just like
anecdotal that all he could do was play defense and then he turned into a
number one option. I forget what one most improved, but I'll look that
up too. But like I do remember that it was kind of like,
oh, Jimmy Butler Bailey played as a as a rookie and he didn't even
play that much as a sophomore. I don't think if I remember correctly,
Yeah, Jimmy Butler won Most Improved in twenty fifteen, thirty years probably.
Yeah, So he played his first season, he played a total three hundred
and fifty nine minutes, and then he immediately shot up to two than one
hundred and thirty four in his second season. Yeah, so he didn't actually
win it until his fourth season. Wow, and that was when he like
really because he scored under a thousand points in each of his first three seasons
and then shot up so like in twenty fourteen to fifteen he averaged eighteen point
six up from twelve. That was per thirty six. Excuse me, he
averaged all that might be spot on since he was playing for TIBs. He
averaged twenty points during his most improved campaign, up from thirteen point one,
but he had established himself as like all world defender by that point. Yes,
I mean we talked about most of like what is most improved? Like
that's that Jimmy Jimmy Butler is the quintessential most improved guy because he became a
different player, like you know, over probably over a couple of years.
But I think like him and even I still think I think I had Shay
is my most improved lecture, Like even Larry Marketing where they're just like this
completely different guy is like in the the spirit of most improved for me.
But I do think you do have to wait, like, oh, if
this player is already really good and we're not sure if they're a star,
but then they make that leap into megastardom. That certainly matters too. Yeah,
do you want to take us out of here? Man? If I
can remember how since it's been so long, everybody, thanks for listening.
Uh, thanks for you know, these are all organic stat padding, so
we're not gonna thank anybody for stat patting. If you don't know, please
rate, review, subscribe, follow us. Oh yes, can I interrupt
if you're still listening. We have been downvoted again, and I don't know
why did. I haven't written anything controversial, you haven't. Was it our
player position rankings? Maybe? But please head to Spotify and Apple and Juice
the five star ratings and reviews. I want to see those numbers and ratings
shoot up because we're getting voted down. I don't even know. Normally,
I know what we did. I don't know what we did this time.
It's it's probably worse if we don't know what it was, all right,
because we're just gonna do it again. Most likely you might have just done
it. Maybe maybe maybe talking about down votes gets you downvoted. Have you
ever thought of that? Nobody likes self pity in the in the podcast game
yeah, so go rectify that. Everybody, please up vote, do the
opposite of down voting. Can you upvote on Spotify? I don't even know
thumbs up. You can give ratings, but not reviews on Spotify, I
don't think, so go give five star ratings across both. And I like
the number of ratings we have on both those platforms relative to the number of
listeners we have, it's not even close. So if your vote counts a
lot, then like a percentage, So get out there. I should probably
go do that. I have done it. And and by the way,
tangentially, we are looking for a new co host of the Hardware Not Podcast,
someone who knows that to rate their own show. I'm the problem that
we've known this for a long time. You've been down voting us. Yes,
it's you know. I don't believe in positive reinforcement. It's all.
It's all sticks, no carrots for me. So let's do better both you
you guys. If merch you links for all of our stuff YouTube and podcast
description, what else would I forget? I think we should just that's enough.
We've talked about our day sport like, let's get more mon our discord.
Get on there. Give us guests of players, give us a litol
stats to talk about, doing the conversation, so on and so forth.
Apologies to Jared Allen. Shout out Frank Millerkin,