And it hits me, Oh my gosh, this is that triangle. You
know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in the wrangdalscham Fars incident that doesn't
involve aliens at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our
heads. It's so classic Gli Sorcier. Really standing in the cleary, he
turned over to my father and held his hand, and he looked in his
eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO for our live
show. We're live every Wednesday at eight pm Eastern Standard Time on podcastufo dot
com. During the show, feel free to participate live in our chat room,
and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook page. Hello,
and welcome to the show. I'm Martin will As your host, and
thank you for your patients. If you're listening to the podcast. We did
the show live, but I made a technical booboo and somehow did not record
the last show, so a couple of days late. But we're all here
and I want to thank supporters for supporting the show. It helps out a
lot. It's the reason we're here. And I have a quick Christmas drawing,
and the first one is this was done the other night through random dot
org. It's a number generator. I took all the listeners numbers and we
put it in a random generator and came up with the first prize winner.
Actually, you get a choice of two and it's Stepan B. And I'm
going to contact you by email. And that is either the four nights stay
at my house. Stephan, you may be overseas, so that may not
work for you. I don't know which situation is, or you get the
Charles Halt the Halt respective signed book. Either one. And the second winner
was number forty two, David B. Getting an email both of you.
Thanks so much for your support. Now listen. If neither one of these
two gentlemen can make it to my place in Maine, then I will keep
drawing until I can find someone that will listening to the show. You can
listen every Wednesday night at podcastufo dot com at eight to ten pm Eastern Standard
time. It's also it also plays in its entirety as a podcast on the
Dark Meta Digital Network, and that's every Thursday at ten to midnight. Now,
I'm gonna do something a little different here because a lot of people that
listen to my show. Also listen to Open Minds and Jason, our guest
tonight, was on Open Minds for a long time with Alejandro. They had
a great chemistry as a duo, and so I'm going to have Jason join
in as well. Right off the bat, So Alejandro and Jason, how
are you guys? Hi? Good, very good, Thank you sir,
And we have a little practice after the other night. Yeah. So when
you say they can stay at your house, you do have a bed and
breakfast, right, So it's not like, yeah, you know, a
regular UFO podcast where you've got to kind of brush off the fast food leftovers
from the couch to make room for someone to sleep or the couch, the
futon or yeah, the food or the VW you know bus in the yard.
Yeah, yeah, no, No, I did have a or is
that the case? If that is, that's fine, I'm not judging.
No, Actually, I'll be a little more specific. I have the main
house I live in, then there's a guesthouse, and but it's a big
guest house, is h you could sleep up to ten people and ten and
then at my house I also have like a little observation deck with the telescope
and all that. So, and I'm overlooking the mountains, a mountain range
you can see for miles and miles, which is unusual for Maine because Maine
is has a lot of trees. So all so that person will be able
to sit in the studio during one of the live shows, if I can
get to the live shows to work. Sounds like that. Batman's like a
eight or something, you know, like, well, I probably couldn't afford
it in any other part of the country. So you know, Mane,
you can find some really good deals. I guess that's how that worked out.
Yeah, but it's a fun place. Yeah. Yeah. So you
two, let me just ask you. You two were work together for how
many years? A little more than six years? Six six years consciously,
subconsciously, probably a couple of lifetimes. Lifetimes. Yeah, yeah, well
that's great. So I'm going to have you Jason sit in of course for
the news and chime in and Alejandro, what do we have this week?
What do we have? Well, you know what's interesting is what we recorded
on Wednesday, Today's Friday, yesterday, and Jason on that this can be
hard. Yesterday was actually a good day for news in the mainstream press,
which is of course what we put in our daily UFO headlines, So I
just wanted to highlight that and tell people they can go check that at our
website. You know, we have the latest on the front page, but
if you go to articles in the daily UFO headlines, you'll see that,
just because one of them's pretty cool. It's an interview with Jeremy Corbel,
who's a filmmaker who every year he submits some films to the UFO Congress Film
Festival, and he'll be doing that again. But he's got a great interview
on Omni, So people from Omni interviewed him about his work and also about
edgar Mitchell because he did some stuff with him, but some other local sightings
and things like that in there that are kind of cool. So it was
just kind of neat that there was Yesterday was such a good news day because
today was not so much. But beyond that, other things going on.
Something that we post recently that is kind of cool. What's from Nick Pope?
So Nick Pope will be speaking in Roswell this year and so will I.
Actually, you know, I got to invite. It's just kind of
a funny story. Nick Pope to Rock Oswell for the first time several years
ago. And back then they did a parade. They do that now,
but it's at night, and ad Jason Seene it's not impressive. It's at
night, and it's supposed to be like a light parade, but some of
the floats, of which there are only five or six forget to put really
many lights on their float, and yeah, the illumination is pretty scarce,
so it's not all that it could be. So they look like real UFOs
and yeah, but back in the day they did a real parade during the
day and the streets are lined with people. But it was so funny to
see Nick Pope, you know, with America flag at the time, he
was still living in the UK, you know, waving that around and it
was he said it was his first, you know kind of American parade.
They don't really have parades like that out in the UK, so it was
just this big smile. It was such an experience. But anyway, getting
back to what I'm supposed to be talking about, he wrote something that we
posted. He wrote it actually for the Roswell Daily Record, And essentially,
what they're trying to do is ask people, especially locals or people who used
to live in Roswell or were affiliated it with with it at all, to
kind of look through their photographs, their family photos, their their trinket boxes
in the attic, their chest to try to see if they can find anything
that pertains to the famous alleged crash in nineteen forty seven. So kind of
cool they essentially, you know, some person was criticizing O ca'se just so
old are we looking at a good and he said, you know, when
nothing else works, you know, uh, let's try something new. So
they're hoping someone will come up with some sort of evidence and hopefully it will
be better than a whole picture of a Mamma fiede uh person and from a
from a like like we saw unfortunately not too long ago. So your old
mummified boy or whatever it was. Yeah, good times, good times exactly.
Otherwise, also in Roswell News, we did post recently Roger Marsh has
been posting a lot of triangular UFO sightings lately, like a ton of them.
And I don't know if it's just he has a big interest in in
that. Roger Marsh is the move On's director of communications, you know,
and uh so he's been posting move on sighting reports, one of those from
Roswell, another one from Hollywood, more recent one with some drawings from Florida
or as you put it, drawings. So a lot of really interesting triangular
sites, and as we've talked about before, you know, a lot of
the triangular UFO sighting seem to be kind of closer. They seem to be,
you know, not too far. One of these people said twenty feet
above the ground. An they're said one hundred to two hundred. I think
a lot of them are are aircraft, you know, just commercial jets where
their lights look like they're in a triangular formation. However, some of these
perhaps not where they say they've seen them closer and they distinctly see the outline
of a black you know, triangular craft and as in one of these drawings,
one from Florida recently, you can see that. So, yeah,
a lot of triangular UFOs being seen. Yeah, and a lot of them
like float or people say they float, there's no no sound and all that.
But you know, getting back to Roswell, a lot of times,
I think that's actually a very good idea what they're doing, because there could
be correspondence out there, and it doesn't have to be just people who live
in Roswell, because you know, situations like say, when President Abraham Lincoln
was assassinated, letters went out everywhere, so a lot of times those letters
have a lot of value. And that's the same thing that could have happened
with Roswell. Could have been people writing, you know, their relatives.
Hey, you can't believe what happened here. None of that stuff is a
smoking gun, but it's it's all all very interesting and could solidify, you
know, things that happened a little more. Mm hm. I get the
mindset that many share of the pooh poohing the old cases, because look,
we tend to have short attention spans. It's something old. We want new
things. We're tired of hearing about Roswell over and over and over again with
the same details that we've had for decades. But when you're dealing with something
that's mysterious, and granted, not everybody feels that Roswell is mysterious. Some
people like the Air Force's explanation, and you know, as the Air Force
has told this time and time again, they feel that Roswell is case closed.
But look, I mean many of us feel myself included that there's still
a mystery as far as the Roswell case goes, and are people still holding
on to material collected or information or other things related to this case that could
shed new light on it. Possibly, but we don't know until we look.
You're dealing with a mystery. And as long as the mystery is there
and we don't have complete closure or a satisfactory complete explanation, I think any
effort to dig out more information is good. Yeah, I do too.
And I also think that it is possible maybe someone has a little piece of
that metal, you know that has eluded us for so long, you know,
everyone that had kept those pieces of little scraps of bendable metal that reformed
when you held her out in your hand. If we had just one piece
of that that could have come from there and explored to see what the heck
it was. You know, that may have some answers too. I don't
know if that's ever going to happen. Yeah, if it exists, it
could be there, that's right. It'll be fun to see what, if
anything, they come up with, So I certainly wish them luck. Yeah,
I mean, we posted not too long ago a story from and it
was Skyship's over Cashiers. I think that it's the name of the site.
They had interviewed a woman who claimed that when she was a child, her
friend, you know, she worked on I think it was right Patters and
I can't remember which Air Force base, and she had seen some of this
material and had described it. She seemed very credible in that interview. That's
a possibility. So those people could still have that material. You never know,
Uh, I guess what might be out there. And the thing is
is that, you know, especially with this one, the mystery, uh,
to your point that we don't necessarily have all the answers is at first,
you know, they showed that material from a weather balloon. Later on
the Air Force said that was disinformation. Now that was not the debris and
this is according to the Air Force. So uh. And then the explanations
of why that was done to cover up other potential, you know, to
cover up the the other balloon that was being used for to look at listening
on the Russians and if they're they're nuclear testing that, yeah, which which
people question whether or not that really fits, you know, But so their
own kind of hemming and hawing around. It has created this mystery, so
it continues to exist. Now. The Roswell Daily Record says if you do
have something, you can contact them. They'll actually have a booth at the
UFO Congress this year also, so we'll have the roswellt Daily Record there talking
about their event in July, and they'll have some of their newspapers from when
this happened in nineteen forty seven, and so they'll be handing those out and
other things too. Do you think someone will turn in that stolen UFO that
fell the flying Sauce, so that fell off of the museum, Well that
was discovered. Oh, it's discovered already. That's evidence. Now what happened
is it looked like they ditched it on the side of the road and so
it was more debris ufo debris. So it was found destroyed on the side
of the road. They probably just checked it out of their car unfortunately.
Yeah, or floated out. Yeah yeah, yeah, another cover up.
Yeah. So is that any you got more stuff, Alejandro, that's essentially
it, I think. Yeah. Well, I do want to say to
the audience out there, check out it was last Sunday, the date I
think it was the eighteenth. Alejandro was on Coast to Coast a great show,
So the listener try to check that out. You might be able to
find that online or some of you that listen maybe subscribe to Coast to Coast.
But I thought you did a great job. Alejandro was really good,
really interesting. Cool. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's great to
talk to George Nap about that stuff, in particular because several of those stories
having to do with like the Clinton campaign or with John Podesta and Tom DeLong
he was involved with. You know, I think people George Nap is such
an important person in this field, someone in mainstream media who's always tackling this
topic. And you know, it's his organization that interviewed Hillary or at least
asked Festa about UFO, So that was interesting. And then also, you
know, George Napp has been kind of a confidant of Tom Delongs, and
all of this information about Tom DeLong talking to these Air Force generals and things
like that is absolutely fascinating. Yeah, and I'm sure you'll get in yeah
right, Yeah, I was gonna say, I'm sure you'll get into that
with Jason, because Jason has interviewed Tom DeLong and worked for him for a
period of time. So right, well, hey, thanks so much,
Alejandro, and have a great Christmas. Yes you too, both of you.
Have a greareat Christmas, all right, Yes, great Christmas to you,
and happy Festivus, friend, Happy Festivus for the rest of us.
All right, take care of my grievances later, and then we can do
the feats of strength, yep. And then we'll have burritos. Jason and
I were planning on having a burrito lunch at this time, I know,
but we for for went is that the word for for goaded for that burrito
lunch in order to be talking with you, my friend. I think that's
very burritos for UFOs man. That's yeah. I'm still gonna go get well,
I'm gonna go get a burrito right now. You should enjoy my friend,
all right, all right, take care, talk to you later.
Yeah, guys, all right, so Jason again, thanks again for being
willing to come back and really enjoy it. Yeah, that's all right.
Really enjoyed our our talk. We have some one of the things I forgot
to do, and I'm really lucky that I thought of it. It was
check the forum there's some questions up there in the forum. But first of
all, for the person who this show is listened to all over the globe,
So for someone that doesn't know who Jason McClellan is, please give an
give us your background and what you know got you into this unusual topic.
Absolutely well. I have been in sort of inside the UFO world since about
two thousand and eight or so, and I was given the unique opportunity to
work in the field full time, not just doing it for you know,
all day every day, but doing it and being paid to do it.
So as a salaried full time position, I served as a basically a journalist
and researcher fully devoted to UFOs and extraterrustrials. So was the actually the first
first official employee, and helped in the formation of UFO media company Open Minds,
and kind of helped put all that together and create it into what it
is today, and also helped in organizing and producing the International UFO Congress and
helping grow that to the largest annual UFO conference in the world. So we
got to do a lot of great work at Open Minds, and that was
a fantastic experience for me and did that for more than six years, as
we mentioned before, so really went deep down the rabbit hole and had to
get up to speed on everything UFO pretty quickly because my knowledge up to that
point was little, you know, like a lot of people getting into the
field. I had a casual interest, but most of my early interest was
fonned, you know, through sci fi. I was a big sci fi
fan. Watched a lot of Star Trek, Star Wars and other sci fi
quite regularly, and I grew up in the middle of the desert, had
a wonderful view of the night sky, went camping almost every weekend, and
just you know, spent the night stare up at the sky, thinking about
everything that could and is out there, and also seeing uh, you know,
strange things moving through this guy and hovering and doing weird things that I
knew didn't really fit, uh you know, anything I'd seen, or things
that as I understood a logic or physics or things like that. So,
you know, I'm a curious person person and I enjoy exploring mysteries. So
the mysteries of the universe have always fascinated me, and I enjoy looking for
for answers and exploring those things. So you know, I've I've had an
interesting career to this point really focused on UFOs and extra trustrial life. And
you know, although that's not my full time focus anymore, it's still something
and that's very important to me and something I stay very active in. And
I launched a company called road Planet, and with my friends and colleagues Mari
and Elsberry and Ryan Sprague, we do quite a few things. May we
still post regular UFO headlines, UFO related articles and things like that, but
we do a fair amount of podcasting. We started a UFO podcast. It's
a bi weekly podcast called UFO mod Pod, and we do that sort of
as a roundtable discussion. And although I think that people within the UFO community
already will find it interesting and you know, a good show, we a
lot. A lot of what we do, we tend to focus on people
outside that that already existing UFO community because I think there's a big need for
that. You and I have talked about this before, and we certainly talked
about it a couple of days ago. But you know, when you talk
to people about UFOs and extra trustrials, it becomes more and more apparent that
really everybody is interested in these topics, you know, in one way or
another, they have an interest, whether it's you know, just kind of
a casual Oh that sounds kind of neat, or my uncle said he saw
a UFO or something like that. You know, everybody's got some sort of
UFO story. Apparently it's fascinating how that unfolds when you bring up the topic.
But people are interested in the topic. So I like to try to
present UFOs specifically, but also extraterustrial life as a more digestible, easy more
make it more, I guess, easily accessible for people who just had that
casual interest. Present them, you know, introductory information bits and pieces here,
little bits, you know, teasers, baby steps, and get them
interested, and then through that they'll take their own initiative to do their own
research and then start listening to shows like yours and shows like Open Mind's UFO
Radio and going to UFO related conferences and you know, really taking that next
active step to gaining more information and doing their own exploration. It's kind of
weird, you know. I started this show when I had basically very little
knowledge and very it looked hardly at all into the topic. Only for the
reason that I had a sighting and the sighting changed you know, everything basically,
and I was on someone else's show. It wasn't even about UFOs or
anything. Was actually a comedian out in La had a podcast. I was
on that and brought up the sighting. He teased me about it, and
then a few weeks later he said, boy, the show has gotten a
lot of hits, and and he says, and it's the word. It's
the topic of UFOs. And that's actually what spawned me starting this show,
you know. And then I just started looking heavily into the topic that was
back in I think it was just twenty eleven, so not too long.
That's fantastic, And you know, it's a great way to do it.
I mean, I know that in my pursuits and the things that I do
publicly, you know, whether it's posting UFO related articles or headlines or podcasts
about UFOs. You know, a big part of that not not is not
only to produce content and get information out to people so they can you know,
digest it and do their own research and make up their own minds about
these things, but it's also for me, it's a you know, a
selfish thing. It's it's my way of staying current with information, my way
of you know, learning the new things that are out there, and my
way of talking and having these discussions with people who are doing more research and
are you know, personally involved in these fields. That's my way of learning
more and you know, contributing in this exploration as we go. I mean,
that's my thing. Always try to keep learning because you know, that's
that's how That's really the best way I think to do it, because I
don't I certainly don't have the time to go and investigate sightings and talk to
people who claim to have you know, sightings or encounters or things like that.
So you know, just having the dialogue with people and you know,
that's the best way I think to keep yourself current with the latest research and
to keep your mind kind of spinning and putting things together as you're piecing the
puzzle together. I guess that's that's kind of what I did and have been
doing. It's like an immersion into the top with people that really have explored
it deeply. And yeah, I find it fascinating and love love doing this.
Open minds. How did you find them or how did they find you?
So I was previously working doing Internet marketing for another company, and the
owner of that company expressed to me his interest and you know, strong interest
in UFOs and extra trusturials and told me that he thought about starting a magazine
and a company focused solely on UFOs and extra trestrails. So of course that
piqued my interest. And he knew my background in video production and and just
media production in general, and writing and things like that. So we started
talking and you know, over the course of a year kind of put the
pieces all together. Everything lined up and eventually launched a UFO company, which
is Open Minds, And so I transitioned over from one company to the other.
Wow, I wondered about the right place right time. Yeah, one
of those one of those things. So it was it was destiny right right
now. We're gonna be talking about your book right away. When I saw
your book title, I had to laugh because the title you see is only
weird o cufos And you know, I mean, that's that's kind of like
the stigma you hear a lot. But if you read the you know,
you continue on in the smaller print of the of the title and introduction to
the public's misconception of aerial of unidentified aerial phenomena and extraterrestrial life. That's a
total cover. It's a great book. I've been reading it on Kindle.
And Uh, the graphic on the front, you said, was Caleb's.
Uh, who was it that did the graphic? Yeah, yeah, it's
Caleb Hanks. Caleb an amazing, amazing artist. And uh he's a musician,
an artist, a multi talented, very creative person. I love him
like a brother and we've done a lot of things together, and he was
my my first choice when I decided to do a book. I knew that
I needed him to to do the cover, and I basically presented him with
a very easy task, perhaps not so easy, but a very easy description.
Going with that, that first part, the main title of the book,
only Weird of c UFOs. I wanted to have art that represented that
public misconception, that only weird of c ufo. So I needed a weirdo
on there, some sort of what I told him, I said, some
sort of hick or country bumpkin. You know that the stereotype of somebody the
cz ufo. So I think he captured that wonderfully. And uh, Caleb,
I believe has provided the open and closed music for Open Mind UFO radios.
People have probably heard his music there. He's also the brother of Micah
Hanks. Micah Hanks is an author, has some UFO books and does the
great Land Report, so covers a lot of UFO and paranormal stuff there too.
So and I don't know if he still has but Caleb us appear on
that show every once in a while too. Uh huh. Now, I
think in the show we did before, I mentioned that I thought I heard
Stephen Hawking say something along that life of that line like only WEIRDO see UFO.
So I quickly now looking on Google, and there are a lot of
quotes that he had. I can't find that particular one, but basically that
it's most of his quotes are of like silliness, like well, of course,
I'm sure everyone out there who's ever looked into some of the things that
Stephen Hawking has said about extra trust or life. One of his things was
saying that we shouldn't be sending out signals because you never know who's going to
respond. You know, there's the fear thing there. But anyway, someone
had said also that they thought your little graphic looked like, what is it?
Randy Quaid? Randy Quaid, Yeah, pretty funny. Up on the
forum, there is some questions, as a bunch of them actually, and
I'm going to ask you this one. As you are a podcaster trying to
promote the subject of ufology targeting a younger audience via UFO modpod, do you
think there is a possibility that there will be a lack of younger researchers coming
through to carry on the work and investigation of the more established senior researchers.
Good question, That's a great question, and I like that a lot,
and I'm glad somebody asked it. You know, we touched on this,
and I will say that based on my experience over the past several years going
to UFO and UFO related conferences, there is an increase in younger attendance.
And I don't know precisely what to credit that to, but I know the
end, like we said, the interest is there, and the challenge is
always how to reach those people, how to get them interested, how to
get them to take that next step and come out to UFO conference, which
isn't you know, as easy of a sell as like a comic con or
something like that that you know typically would appeal to a younger person or somebody
looking for a fun event, because although I enjoy UFO conferences there, I
don't know if you could necessarily label them as fun all the time or you
know, I mean, they're fun to me, but they're not like your
typical entertaining event. You know, they're they're academic and and uh, you
know the fun for me of course. And we talked about this too.
I think we share this. It's like a family reunion because you know,
just getting together with fellow researchers and people that you've known over the years and
gotten to know through this field, it's a good time to get together and
and uh just bye. Differing different views or views that don't don't always align,
you still get together with that common interest and it's it's good to have
the dialogue that happens at those events. So not always the most conducive places
for or appealing for people outside of the field, but despite all that,
you still see an increase in younger people. I do think the interest is
there. That's why I like to present things on a different level, something
that's outside the typical UFO field or the UFO community to try to reach those
people. I don't think there's going to be a shortage of researchers. I
think we will pretty quickly see a lot of younger people taking uh the initiative
to actively research, to contribute things, you know, whether that's new podcasts
or or books or even new conferences. You know, we see younger and
younger people and fresh faces appearing at at conferences giving lectures, and that's that's
always a good thing. But the interest isn't going away. There are you
know, it's a personality trait too. I think people are different, but
there it's a certain certain mentality a person who wants to be actively involved to
uh take the initiative to produce something that that contributes to to research and uh,
you know further in the field. So you know, you have to
wait for those people to emerge, but they are emerging. We are seeing
that, and uh, I think we'll see a lot more. So I'm
not I'm not worried about euthology dying off at all. With with as our
older researchers go, I'm you know, there's there's big panic among some people
in the UFO research field about the future of ethology and and all the troubles
it faces, and you know, euthologies in danger. I don't agree with
that, So I think you call it would be just fine. The only
way I think that in danger, my own personal opinion is just through the
technology of hoaxing is going to be so difficult to differentiate. Eventually most likely
that that's that could you know, that could really change things as far as
Yeah, absolutely, that's certainly certainly a hurdle that you know exists and has
existed for quite a long time. It's certainly going to get worse. But
you know, every field of study has its hurtles and has its challenges.
But you know, if we as researchers and people in this field believe that
UFOs are in fact real, which we know. We know that, you
know, there are unidentified aerial objects flying around the world every day, We
know that that exists, we know firmly in our hearts that that's something that
merits serious scientific study, then it should be fine to stand on its own.
It's not something that we should worry that. Oh no, something bad
was said about UFOs or oh no. The news covered a story about one
person who hoked something, or oh no, the news covered some lunatic who
raped about some ridiculous story. Now everybody's going to think that UFOs are,
you know, just this looney thing that only we're to see UFOs eupologies in
danger. Oh no, we've got to We've got to stop this. You
know. It's that panic mentality or this this thing that we've got to treat
euthology like a you know, an injured animal or something that you know is
so delicate and frail that we have to worry about every bad that's said about
it. I think that mentality is more damaging to eupology than any of that
stuff that people like that are worried about, because again, if we think,
if we genuinely think that you know, the evidence is there and that
it's something that's real and deserve study, then it can stand on its own.
Science. Other scientific fields are no different. You know. They scientists
put out studies all the time, and they're immediately met with ridicule from their
peers and people who say, oh, that's ridiculous, No, you don't
know what you're talking about. This study has no merit. You know,
they deal with with that all the time. I'm not saying that it's on
the same level as UFOs. You know, that's always going to be an
uphill battle. Anything dealing with UFOs or extraterustrial life and the ridicule factor there
is certainly quite strong. Don't need to debate that at all. But other
scientific fields deal with some of the same challenges that the study of UFOs do.
So I think if we spend less time worrying about, you know,
people saying bad things about UFOs or some bad eggs when it comes to spreading
false information or people trying to make names for themselves, we do a lot
better and be able to focus on the more important things of solving some of
the questions we have. Yeah, unfortunately, someone from the outside, when
they get involved with something like that, that can burn some bridges. But
you know, it just depends on how long they look into the topic.
Here's a question up here that sort of follows along what we're talking about.
This is again comes from the forum. Although there are plenty of websites and
YouTube channels connected with euphology that are full of nothing but hoax information. Do
you think the recent push to silence fake news might be used also to squelch
those eupology sites that contain good research and valuable factual information. Does this worry
you? I'm not worried, and you know here why I mean, I
think again, with just being in the age we are currently in, just
the saturation of media, so much of absolutely everything, there's no escaping fake
news. You know, it's always going to be there, and no matter
what efforts happen, you can't get rid of it. You know, I
equate it to the war on drugs or you know, other things that are
well intentioned, or you know, anti bullying campaigns, like they're well intentioned
and you know they're they're a good idea, but you're not going to be
able to get rid of it. It's always going to be there in some
someplace or another. So really, as I think should be the case,
the everything comes back on the shoulders of the individual. You know, we
have to take responsibility in going further than just reading a headline or even reading
the article and accepting it at face value. You know, I think it's
important no matter if you're reading about UFOs or reading about politics, or reading
about you know, a new car coming out. Yes, it's great that
there's somebody out there who wrote an article about it, and perhaps for some
mainstream media outlet, that's great. So I think the source of the information
is important, and it's important to look at that article and who the journalist
is citing too, Where did that information come from, and then perhaps take
it further and look at that source and see if they did in fact say
what the journalist is quoting them as saying. You know, dig a little
deeper. Yes, it's time consuming, it takes more time, but when
you're dealing with things, especially things that are as big as UFOs and extraterrestrials,
dig a little deeper, take some time to do the research, find
out where the information is coming from, and then you can make up your
your opinion based on it. And again, a lot of this is in
fact, opinion based. It's not concrete fact, not you know, one,
conclusive evidence. A lot of what we're dealing with is stuff that is
contributing evidence, something that you know can support a claim, and that's what
it is, and it can support your existing belief. But you know,
if you are being objective and keeping an open mind as we explore anything mysterious,
you know we have to be able to be flexible and change. Uh,
you know, the conclusions we've reached on certain things with our ears of
looking at these the weirdness that UFOs can bring. I certainly know that.
You know, I think with certain aspects of things related to UFOs, I've
made my mind up on how I feel about certain things. But then I
come across something new and it uh, you know, I have to be
flexible to alter that established belief that I created for myself. Right right,
People do have short tension spans today, only for the reason that there's so
much information coming in every which direction social media, you know, YouTube,
back to YouTube, all that, and and that even goes into the title,
the title of your book. You mentioned to me that a few people
just saw only weirdo c UFOs and they didn't read the rest of the title,
and we're upset. That was enough, That was enough, and they
were done. Well, I'm not reading that book. Or I used to
be a fan of yours, but now I have to change my mind.
Yeah. No, that stuff makes me laugh, And you know, you
just have to quietly remind them or ask, yeah, thanks, but did
you happen to read the rest of the title. Yeah, and you know,
one person even responded no, and I don't care to thank you.
Yeah, okay, well thanks. Well Peggy who runs my Facebook page,
did an experiment where she had a picture that said one thing, and if
you cooked on it went to a whole different other thing, and all these
people were just commented. There was like a hundred comments on the picture,
and nobody looked at the link. It was a total different story. So
yes, short, the tension spans now, I want to talk to you
about you are one of the only few people that I've ever spoke to that
actually saw the Phoenix lights. And I know you were like seventeen years old.
Yeah, and it didn't it didn't uproot your life or anything like that.
You saw this at quite a distance, right, So I mean,
again, I think with sightings, I can't speak for other people because again
we're individuals. We all have different strengths and weaknesses, and you know,
everybody's a different person. I know for myself, I've never boasted a impeccable
memory. So you know, when you hear about UFO sightings and people witnesses
recalling things that happened years ago, you know, just a few years ago,
let alone nineteen forty seven or something like that with new witness is coming
forward, different story there, But you know, I know, thinking about
something that happened all the way back in nineteen ninety seven, I'm certainly not
going to fool myself or anybody else and try to pretend that I remember things
exactly as they happened. But I do know that they seemed the lights five
to seven lights. Again, I won't pin to an exact number because I
know that I don't remember exactly whether it was five or seven lights that I
saw, but they were they were pretty much directly over our property. And
I can't estimate how high they were. They didn't seem to be that high,
but you know, they were certainly at some altitude and just these bright
stationary lights just hovering there. And again I don't remember exactly how long,
but I do know that I observed them for what seemed like a very long
time, and I'm going to say somewhere between thirty and forty five minutes.
And being a seventeen year old kid, you know, I thought it was
awesome. I certainly watched it and scratched my head for a long time and
wanted to know what it was but after a while kind of got bored of
just steering. Guy went back inside, watched TV, saw that they were
talking about it on the news, and I say, oh, that's cool,
that's what I was just looking at. That's time I went back outside.
They weren't there anymore. So not the first person that has said on
this show is that they got bored with watching a UFO and went and watch
TV. I think you're the second one who said that. Such a funny
thing to say, now, you know, but it does happen. You
know, we've talked about UFO just like skywatching before and watching for UFOs,
and it's definitely something that takes a lot of patients. If you have the
patients, you'll most likely see something because there's a lot of stuff out there
in both the day and the night. Anywhere in the world you want to
be. If you dedicate the time, you can probably see a UFO.
But it's not for somebody with short attention span, that's for sure, that's
right. Yeah, And out in the desert you have when you get away
from the light pollution, you can see some stars. I mean you see
big wide open sky. It's beautiful. Yeah. Where I grew up.
It was away from absolutely everything, and you know, it was one of
the reasons I love camping so much because you could I mean, you could
see so much of the sky that you know, you could actually see the
Milky Way and you could see just you know, millions and millions and millions
of stars, so absolutely incredible sky view. So yeah, I had a
really good view. And also where we were had a really good view of
out toward the Barry Goldwater Range where a tens routinely dropped flares, So I
saw flares, military flares dropped all the time. So it was quite familiar
with military flares. So you know, I can confidently say what I saw
was not military flares, right, right, And that's that's important because you
know, there is some actual filming that you see when you look into the
Phoenix lights that were actually flares or that went were launched up later on that
night, whether it was to throw people off or or not. But now
the aftermath of that, what was that like, I mean, you must
have known that there was, uh, there was a lot of hassling going
on between uh you know, Fife, Simington, but I mean there was
they were getting calls. Everyone was calling in about it for uh, I
think days afterwards, and it was probably well, I mean for quite a
while, right, Yeah, as we know, I mean, they did
a good job at the time of trying to downplay it, you know,
and Timeanton's spoken about that many times now. But yeah, I mean they
they did a good job, and you know, the local media did a
good job of, you know, sort of staying curious about it. But
like all things, you know, I mean, our attention spans were slightly
longer back then, but uh, you know, there was there was less
news flooding in all the time, so that story kind of stayed fresh for
a little bit. But it wasn't that big of a deal, you know,
I remember seeing it on the on the page of the paper and stuff.
But yeah, I mean people were still curious about it, but you
know, I don't recall it being something that the public was really all that
interested in. They were curious, but you know, aside from the thousands
of people who did call in to Simonton's office and the city council looking for
answers, you know, those things kind of go away, right right,
someone wanted to know in the forum as well as what was your favorite UFL
case that you've reported on as a journalist. Well, let's see, that's
a good one, and you know this one doesn't seem that exciting. But
there was a period of time. I'm trying to remember the years now.
I want to say two thousand and eleven, but I could be wrong,
But there was this this span of time where hundreds of UFOs were seen on
the China Indian border and these lights were reported and investigated by the Indo Tibetan
Police Force, the military chief astronomers there, and this was an ongoing thing.
You know, you're talking about police officers, military personnel seeing these things
and astronomy experts commenting on them, and people thought, you know, well
that maybe they're they're Chinese lanterns. But these things would stay in the air.
I don't remember the specifics. It's it's certainly in my book, but
they would stay in the air for you know, a half hour or so,
traversing the sky. And these people went on alert. They thought that
they were under attack. They had confirmation or multiple statements from people working at
these observatories saying that, you know, we've dismissed any possible celestial bodies or
anything like that. So these experts, the military, the police, they
were completely baffled after launching investigation into this, trying to figure out what they
were. And you know, I just think that that case was really fascinating
because there was no conclusion and watching the media react to that case as well,
because there was one one media report from one media outlet that said that
they concluded that it was Chinese lanterns or something, but then there was another
report and I couldn't find any confirmation of that, by the way, But
then there was another report that came out later with a quote from one of
the scientists from an observatory saying, we're still completely perplexed by this. We
have no idea what they are. So you had conflicting media reports and all
of these official bodies looking into these hundreds of UFOs along India Humway and border
with China during a two and a half month period and they have no idea
what these things were. Isn't that amazing? Wow? That that is something
I was never familiar with that. Let's say something wanted to know, what
is the style of your book? Is it testimonies from people or is it
case studies or something else? Entirely. The book is laid out in an
interesting way. Again, the purpose of this book is to provide, as
the subtitle describes, an introduction to the public's misperception of unidentified aerial phenomena and
extraterustrial life. So it gives little bits and pieces here and there, starting
off with sort of the history of the modern UFO era and looking at you
know, pointing out to people in the general public who might not be familiar
with the fact that the government has governments around the world has and do investigate
UFO, you know, touching briefly on some of the big cases from the
beginning of the modern UFO era, talking about Kenneth Arnold and Roswell and things
like that. So some other big cases in here too, touching on Rendelsham
and things like that, looking at military UFO encounters. So really the book
is segmented out talking, highlighting some more of a Okay, so I'll say
it like this, What would really responded it was, you know, my
background in being a UFO journalist, writing stories for so many years about UFO
sidings and people who had had UFO sidings, and what what news typically is
when you know celebrities or you know, other public public officials or public people
people in the in the public spotlight have some sort of UFO sighting or make
a comment about extraterustrial life. So there's a lot of stories in here just
kind of highlighting people, whether they're celebrities, musicians, military personnel, pilots,
you know, just a wide variety of people pointing out that people all
walks of life either have thoughts about UFOs and extratrustural life or have seen UFOs
and or extraterrustrial life. It also has a good section at the end talking
about focusing on extrarustural life and about mainstream science and the current efforts to search
for extraterrustrial life, and you know a lot about astrobiology and things like that,
and thoughts from mainstream scientists on intelligent extraterrustrial life. And what about the
person that says to you, oh, UFOs and extraterrustrial or aliens as they
put it, It's all just part of pop culture, and that's, you
know, the only reason people have interests and people are seeing them. Well,
I certainly I think and know that UFOs are a huge part of pop
culture, but we know that, you know, unidentified aero phenomena have been
reported since the beginning of documented history. The military certainly takes UFOs seriously.
We know that objects are in the sky every day all around the world.
Objects that you know, UFOs does not mean alien spacecraft. It certainly could
be that's a possibility. We can't discount that. But there are objects,
and this should, this should really concern people and make scientists take great interest
in the fact that we do know that we have objects flying around in our
airspace and we don't know what they are. That's double that's absolutely incredible.
So now we know that, and that's funny that that's a hurdle we still
have to get over even talking about whether or not UFOs exists. We know
UFOs exists, but that's still a question that you know, the mainstream public
has that. That's that's the perception that we don't know if UFOs exist or
not. We do know that UFOs exists, that they're seen by people from
all walks of life all around the world every day. So the real real
question is is what are they? So that's that's the fun and you know,
really the reason that I stay interested in this field is just the the
unknown of it all and trying to trying to find those answers. But with
extraterrustrial life, sure, you know, you have lots of people who do
claim that they personally experienced or encountered extraterrestrials intelligent extraterrustrial life, and that's great.
You know, some of them are really good stories, really fascinating,
and some some quite compelling. But again it comes down to belief, because
we don't have a real documented or conclusive proof that's going to convince anybody or
change anybody's mind conclusively. So it comes down to a what you want to
believe if you want to believe certain certain evidence or certain testimony. So there's
a lot of that. But as far as mainstream science goes and where we
are with extraterrustrial life, just you know, talking on a microbial level,
which is what's you know, a lot of the focus is on most people
involved in some way or form with that that study will tell you that that
that discovery is right around the corner. And Martin, you and I have
talked about this, and you know I've certainly gone on record saying that I
think even as soon as five years will get some sort of confirmation from mainstream
science that some sort of extraterrestrial life has been found. But there are so
many missions underway right now, either on the drawing boards or already being realized,
that are actively searching for extraterrustrial life. And there are mainstream scientists,
you know, being funded by mainstream mainstream funding, with the specific purpose of
searching for intelligent extraterrestrial life. So that stuff is happening in mainstream science.
But I think a lot of people in the mainstream, and even if within
the UFO community, don't realize that so right Well, now, one of
the questions that's come to mind. I've asked a few different people that I've
had on the show this. Let's just say that there are I'm just going
to throw a rough number out there. There's billions of intelligent extraterrestrial life out
there in the universe, and a lot of them have figured out the physics
to get here. Why would they get here? Why would they come visit
us? Why are we special? Why would we be so special if there
are billions of planets out there with intelligent extraterrestrial life. Well, going back
to something that you and I had talked about. You know, we in
talking about intelligent extraterrustrial life. We like to personify extraterrustrial life. We like
to think of you know, in human terms and us and that's how astrobiologist
view extratrustrial life. You know, they're looking for life as we know it,
because that's kind of what we have to go on. We don't know
anything else, and it's hard for us to fathom, you know, just
kind of throw things out, make guesses at what other life might be like.
So we're basing things off of life here on Earth. We're talking about
intelligent extraterrestrials, we're making thinking of them as as we would humans, you
know, human personalities and you know, different human minds. So you know,
that's where where Stephen Hawking likes to throw in his you know, and
that's the exact analogy he uses, you know, looking back at human history
and you know how war hungry we are and how we like to take people
and push them off their land and use their resources. So yeah, looking
at it, you know, and perhaps that's vanity. I don't know,
if we want to think that aliens are like or if aliens are here,
they're here because of us, because we're special. I don't know. I
think that's a you know, certainly possibility, but it's a it's just a
guess. You know, we were guessing that if they're if they're here,
they're here because we're special or there's something interesting about us, And that may
not be the case. You know, it could be that, you know,
as Hawking and others feel that, you know, they're interested in our
resources. So whatever their their sensors or their technology concluded that, you know,
the resources we have here on our planet would be a value to them.
But you know, it could be like us going on a road trip,
driving down the freeway. Just because we drive by a certain gas station
or through a certain town doesn't mean that that town is special or you know,
we we thought that town was particularly interesting, so we decided to drive
through it. It just happened to be there when we were going by.
Wow, very good analogy to that. I yeah, I have wondered,
you know, that is the question. I've another question I should say,
and why they would think we're so special? Is is bath But I never
thought of the resources that could be Again, you know, we also think
about this, I mean, if if space travel is so easy, you
know, for some some beings out there, some civilizations. You know,
I think about it like TV too. You know, we're watching TV and
flipping through the channels and stop on a channel. You know, it's because
we saw something that looked interesting. We might not necessarily have intended to watch
that show, and we might not stay watching that show, but hey,
we saw it, we'll check it out for a little bit. Very good,
Tom Delon. We said we were going to talk about him. Now
you worked with him. I know you went out first, You and Maureen
went out and actually interviewed him a number of years ago, and then you
got to know him and stayed in touch with him and then work for him
for a while. He's been in the news a lot, or the UFO
news at least a lot lately. And I know you and I spoke about
this the other night on the show, and one of the things I mentioned
to you, and I thought you had a really good point was I thought
that he'd be like the perfect person to send along misinformation too. And you
said basically that you he was aware of that. Yeah, absolutely, And
you know that's certainly the thought that I think cross most people's mind when when
we all heard about it. But yeah, I mean Tom from from the
very start, I think was hit with that question, and I think George
Natt might have been the one to pose it to him the first time in
a public interview. But yeah, Tom said that he is convinced that he's
not being fed information or used for disinformation because and this is his explanation and
why he personally feels this way, is that these advisors of his, these
military and government and other important individuals, are not giving him information. They
are simply basically responding or or or confirming things that he's presenting to them,
things that he's you know, come up with based on his decades of research.
Tom is you know, surprises people. But in my opinion, Tom
is one of the most well read people when it comes to UFOs. He's
been you know, actively researching UFOs, uh you know, for decades and
you know, is quite well read and goes pretty deep on the subject.
So he's not a newcomer to UFOs at all, and being who he is,
you know, as a rock star and public figure, he's certainly capitalized
on that over the years and arranged uh, you know, personal meetings with
a lot of the leading researchers in the field today. So you know,
his his activity in the UFO research world is is nothing new, and he's
aware certainly of you know, disinformation campaigns and the all the negative bad guy,
you know, reputation the military has surrounding this topic. He is one
hundred percent convinced that, you know, he's been given good information or confirmed
the information that's being confirmed is good. He trusts the people that he's working
with. And people think that Tom's deceptive or that you know, he's doing
what he's doing for money. I disagree with all of that one hundred percent.
I will just say that this is just my personal opinion based on my
personal relationship and experience with Tom. I genuinely believe that what he is doing
is something that he firmly believes is good for the field of UFOs. He
genuinely has a passion for this, and you know, it's what he wants
to do with his life. I mean, he left a lucrative music career
to focus on this type of stuff and other things that he wants to do.
He's doing this out of love, and if he wanted money, he
could certainly quickly turn around, rejoin Blank y eighty two and go on tour,
And that's certainly not off the table at this point. But I will
say what he's doing and the work at to the Stars I think is really
good, really exciting. He's doing a lot of fun stuff that he's always
wanted to do. It ranges from all sorts of things, from comic books
and novels and movies and TV shows and music. So he's doing the things
he loves and he has the means to do it. So I think he's
doing something good. I think what he's doing with his property Secret Machines is
definitely something to watch, and I just encourage people. I mean again,
I don't know if the information that's going to come from this project is any
good or not. I don't think if it's any I don't know if it's
anything new. I don't know if it will be earth shattering. We don't
know. I don't know. You don't know. But there's been so much
speculation around this whole property and and you know, really crucifying Tom before you
know, knowing much about this project aside from what Tom says, and he's
been very open about the project, and you know, some of the people
he's worked with, I mean working with Podesta. He made public a long
time ago, two years ago. But you know, when the when the
when the nonfiction books come out, which the first in the nonfiction trilogy will
come out in March, written by Peter Lavenda, co written with Peter Lavenda
with a forward by Jacques Vallet. You know, then we'll see what this
information is when the documentary comes out. And that's what I'm most excited to
see this documentary. Yeah, it should be you know, then we'll see
what this information is and what he's been been uh, you know, pushing
out and talking about for for the last year. But you know, we're
in this this you know, we talked about short attention span but also short
patients. We're in this this era of like wanting everything right now. We
don't have patients to wait. We want all the spoilers. We want want
to read the articles and hear about you know, things they're going to show
us the latest stolen images of the new iPhone or the newest trailer of Star
Wars, you know, things like that. We just can't wait until it
actually comes out to see what it really is. We want to know all
the little details now now now, right, right? Have you communicated with
them since the WikiLeaks emails? No, No, wiki leaks caused all sorts
of problems and yeah, communication has kind of been cut off since then.
But uh, you know, I mean from what I heard there there,
they definitely had to do some damage control because of that. It compromised a
lot of you know, the sources that they had, you know, work
so hard to develop and promised anonymity to these people. You know, some
of that was was damaged because of wiki leaks. So they had to do
some serious damage control with that. But they seem to be back on track
and things are going well, and you know, we'll get to see the
first of these nonfiction books coming out. Peter Lavenda is a great guy,
very very great researcher, you know, and they've been working on this in
the research they've done for years now together. And you know, Peter is
a fan of Jacques Ballet like so many of us are, and I know
Tom is so the fact that he contributed the forward to that book, I
think says a lot about it and I'm just excited to read it. Now.
You mentioned earlier that you and you and I agree on this that within
a short period of time, I think it will be public knowledge that there
will be a discovery, discovery of extraterrestoral life, whether it's intelligent or not.
I have no idea. But the last question I'm going to ask you
on the form here is do you think at least some kind of partial disclosure
disclosure? Boy, having a hard time here, partial disclosure is coming,
you know. I people like to in this field, like to latch onto
to certain buzzwords, you know, and I don't know, for one reason
or another, they always rubbed me the wrong way because I think they overcomplicate
things. You know. Disclosure is one, consciousness is another, you know,
when when really what people are typically talking about when they use those words
is something that's very very basic. And with disclosure. You know, I've
said this, you know, since I started in the UFO field, and
I have the same mindset now there. I don't ever think there will be
some grand disclosure like some people think there will be, like a president coming
forward and saying, surprise, we lied all these years. We've known everything.
Here's what we know. Here you go, guys, We're finally finally
stopping our lives that'll never have happen. You know, there's never going to
be an admittance of prior knowledge or intentional deception. That won't happen. I
think when something's discovered, you know, that will be announced, whether through
it's a NASA press conference or something like that. You know, and then
it is what it is. You know, if there's something to do from
then on out, if there's you know, additional missions launched or further investigation
to do, then it'll happen. But I don't think it's going to be
some big like big hulla balloo or something earth shattering. I mean, it
is pretty earth shattering, but I you know, I don't think it's going
to be this grand government thing where they come forward and say, all right,
we've discovered it and ps, yeah, let's take your live to Area
fifty one now and show you what we've been working on. You and I
agree on a lot of things I have to tell you. Okay, So
your show is called UFO Mod Pod and that's bi weekly. Yeah, and
it's with you, Maureen and Ryan. Correct. And someone can find that
how do they find that? Is at that actually a U r L as
well? The easiest way to do. That is iTunes, but you know
it's also on various other podcast locations. But our website is Roague Planet dot
tv and you can find UFO mod Pod there as well as some of our
other shows and other content that we're working on. Great, well, Jason,
it's been a real pleasure, and you're a real trooper to come back
and after we already did the two hour show, I really do appreciate it.
Well, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me back and doing
this again with me. You know, we did have so much fun in
that two hours, and I'm sad that it's gone forever. But yeah,
that's right. We created new magic today and that's great. Yes, that's
right. And a lot of you out there are celebrating Christmas in just a
couple of days, so I want to say Mary Christmas to you, and
I know I was in Russia this year. In Russia's celebrates on January sixth,
not everyone celebrates it on December twenty fifth, and of course not everyone
celebrates Christmas. But to those who do, Merry Christmas, and merry Christmas
to do as well. Jason, thank you, sir, same to you,
all right, So everyone will be back next week with Ray Stanford.
And Ray has been on the show a number of times. He is going
to be talking about different topics. He's really excited. He's got a lot
to say and he'll be on next week. And I want to thank Jason,
of course, our guests, and Alejandro Rojas and the other people that
help out with the show, Peggy for managing the Facebook page. Remember to
like us on Facebook for all the latest UFO news. Again, we'll be
back next week, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.