1 00:00:17,199 --> 00:00:21,239 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Jishinski, 2 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,519 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:24,519 --> 00:00:29,239 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 4 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,600 and of course, if you want to support our work, make sure 5 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,520 to head over to the Federalist dot com and try out the premium version of 6 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,759 our website as well. Today we're joined by Sophie Hamilton. She works in 7 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:46,200 health studies for a DC libertarian think tank. She's also a Young Voices fellow 8 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,200 and contributor and man. Sophie has an interesting story to tell us today. 9 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,679 So Sophie, welcome to Federalist Radio Hour. Thank you so much for having 10 00:00:54,679 --> 00:00:58,000 me on. Emily, I'm excited to be here. Before we dive into 11 00:00:58,039 --> 00:01:00,399 your story, I actually just want to see if you can tell us a 12 00:01:00,439 --> 00:01:03,239 little bit about yourself. How it is that you ended up working on health 13 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,760 policy here in d C. Where you're from. Catch us up on you 14 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,200 a little bit. Yeah, So, I'm from Jacksonville, Florida. I 15 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,560 went to the University of Miami for undergrad and then after graduation I moved up 16 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,480 to DC and I've been here for about two years. I've been doing policy 17 00:01:19,519 --> 00:01:23,680 work a think tank. I started off doing housing and welfare, and now 18 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:29,680 I'm in healthcare, mostly focusing on drug policy. And I've also been with 19 00:01:29,799 --> 00:01:34,040 Young Voices since January, where I've been doing some freelance writing, mainly focusing 20 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:40,680 on housing, welfare and health policy studies. Amazing, and so people can 21 00:01:40,719 --> 00:01:47,680 follow your work at Sophie Hamilton on Twitter at Sofie Hamilton. People can pick 22 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,040 up on the stuff that you're doing over there. But actually, for the 23 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,480 purposes of this discussion, I'm not remotely surprised to learn that you're from Florida, 24 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:57,840 because, in fact, what you are going to tell us about is 25 00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:02,719 this amazing story about how you sort of pushed the government here in the district 26 00:02:02,799 --> 00:02:08,560 of Columbia where I've lived for twelve, twelve or thirteen years now, and 27 00:02:08,599 --> 00:02:13,759 this has actually always been something that's been kind of a bugaboo, and every 28 00:02:13,759 --> 00:02:17,680 conservative woman who lives in DC knows about this. You actually helped to change 29 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:23,840 something. Sophy. Could you start just by telling us how you ended up 30 00:02:24,039 --> 00:02:29,840 writing this piece in the Washington Examiner on pepper spray and then take us through 31 00:02:30,879 --> 00:02:35,400 what happened after you wrote it. Yeah, So I think, like any 32 00:02:35,479 --> 00:02:38,280 woman living in a city, or really any woman anywhere, I carry pepper 33 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:43,039 spray. I keep it on my keychain. It's with me anywhere that I 34 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,360 go. It's just a little tool that I can keep with myself, just 35 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,840 for safety, for anything, if anything bad happens, especially living in a 36 00:02:51,879 --> 00:02:57,159 city. I think it's very important. Sadly, I had gone to some 37 00:02:57,199 --> 00:02:59,919 sort of venue I think it was a concert, and I got my peppers 38 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,599 taken away by the security. There no problem. Next morning, I just 39 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,639 went on Amazon to reorder myself one and I got an error code and it 40 00:03:08,719 --> 00:03:14,319 was saying that it wasn't deliverable to my address, my DC apartment address. 41 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,120 I thought that was weird, so I started plugging in other addresses. I 42 00:03:17,159 --> 00:03:21,120 put it to my parents' house in Florida. I put it at my friend's 43 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,719 house in Virginia, and it was going to send to those addresses. So 44 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:30,000 I thought, maybe there's something going on here legally where it's not allowed to 45 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,919 be sent to DC. Maybe it's illegal in DC. So I started doing 46 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,599 some digging through the DC code, through the laws, and I found that 47 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:46,520 it's totally legal to own pepper Spray to use pepper spray for self defense in 48 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,479 Washington, d C. So I thought that was weird, and it wasn't 49 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,639 just Amazon that was preventing me from ordering this. There was several other huge 50 00:03:54,680 --> 00:04:00,680 pepper spray retailers online that were refusing to send it to my DC the address. 51 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:04,360 So I tried to no avail to reach out to those, to those 52 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:11,919 online retailers, Amazon saber bling, sting anyone said I could find that wouldn't 53 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,199 send it, and I heard nothing back. So I then took my next 54 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:23,000 course of action, which was to write a seething online article and did a 55 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,839 Twitter blitz about this and put out my thoughts about why I thought it was 56 00:04:26,959 --> 00:04:31,040 ridiculous that I couldn't buy pepper spray and Washington, DC. And so so 57 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:33,480 this is July. By the way, I have the article in front of 58 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,959 you. It's headline why won't retailers mail pepper spray to residents of crime? 59 00:04:39,079 --> 00:04:44,839 Written DC and of course on some crimes in particular, we're experiencing record levels 60 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,600 of crime here in DC. In fact, we'll to actually talk about that 61 00:04:46,639 --> 00:04:49,160 in just a second. So this is late July, and that's the article 62 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,120 you're talking about. It was in the Washington Examiner, right, yes, 63 00:04:53,199 --> 00:04:57,759 correct, amazing, Okay, so it take us from there then. Yeah, 64 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,480 so I published this article in the Washington Examiner. I had a lot 65 00:05:02,519 --> 00:05:08,560 of women, a lot of friends, coworkers, just random people on Twitter 66 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:13,079 responding to me that they were angry about this too, that they couldn't figure 67 00:05:13,079 --> 00:05:15,160 out how to buy pepper spray, that they were then sending it to their 68 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:21,160 friends in the neighboring Arlington, Virginia, Maryland so they could drive it over 69 00:05:21,199 --> 00:05:27,120 the border. But I didn't hear anything back from anyone. I had reached 70 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,439 out to people in the DC Council. They had confirmed with me that it's 71 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:36,439 totally legal to have I never heard anything. It wasn't until last week that 72 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:43,519 I had opened up Twitter and I saw a tweet tagging me from Congress or 73 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:49,519 from council member Christina Henderson, noting that she had passed emergency legislation to clarify 74 00:05:49,680 --> 00:06:00,319 to online retailers that is totally legal to send pepper spray to Washingtonians. I 75 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,959 mean, it's just you've done the unthinkable again. This is something, as 76 00:06:03,959 --> 00:06:09,759 you mentioned, it's funny to me because it's something that's kind of been It's 77 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:15,160 loomed over like womanhood in Washington, DC for years because it's always just been 78 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,160 something everyone just knew. You weren't allowed to have pepper spray here, and 79 00:06:19,519 --> 00:06:24,240 this is I feel like this is a huge step. What was your reaction 80 00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:29,079 when you saw that. I was so surprised, so happy. I definitely 81 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:35,120 shed a couple happy tears after that. I wasn't told by council Member Henderson's 82 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,160 office that they were even aware of my article that this was going on, 83 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,959 but I was really happy that that change was being made. Funnily enough, 84 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:47,800 that same day before I got that news, one of my female coworkers came 85 00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:51,079 up to me and asked if I could help her get pepper spray because she 86 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:57,360 knew about the article. She knew that I carried it, and I had 87 00:06:57,399 --> 00:06:59,279 figured that out with her. I was going to send it to a friend's 88 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:02,240 address, and then I saw that news. So it was really great that 89 00:07:03,079 --> 00:07:09,480 a council member was listening to one of her constituents in that they're actually doing 90 00:07:09,519 --> 00:07:15,439 some good. I think we like to talk negatively about the local DC government, 91 00:07:15,519 --> 00:07:19,160 about Congress and how they handle the district, but this was a very 92 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:25,759 good piece of legislation that they passed, and it was exciting as someone that 93 00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:30,480 works in policy to know that my thoughts matter, that I'm being listened to, 94 00:07:30,519 --> 00:07:33,240 and I'm not just talking to a brick wall all day, as I 95 00:07:33,279 --> 00:07:38,160 often and many of my co workers often. Feel like. There are a 96 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,720 couple of layers that I really love about this story, and let me just 97 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,199 start with one. Christina Henderson is, as you mentioned, the councilwoman at 98 00:07:46,279 --> 00:07:50,040 large who tweeted again, if I were you, I mean I my mind 99 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:55,399 would just be blown away by this November seventh, at five twenty three pm. 100 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:00,439 She posts earlier earlier this summer and tags you. Sophie hamill And wrote 101 00:08:00,439 --> 00:08:05,040 a piece in DC Examiner Washington Examiner about her challenges acquiring pepper spray for self 102 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,360 defense purposes in DC. Although it's legal to possess, online retailers were not 103 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,360 selling or delivering those items to d C addresses. We followed up with Amazon, 104 00:08:13,639 --> 00:08:18,160 the interpreted the DC Code to suggest that pepper spray could only be sold 105 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,839 by a licensed dealer and could not confirm that their many independent sellers were licensed. 106 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,600 I drafted emergency legislation to clarify that pepper spray can be sold and delivered. 107 00:08:26,839 --> 00:08:30,959 It passed today twelve to one. Okay, so twelve to one, 108 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,240 and from Christina Henderson, who, according to her biography, actually worked for 109 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,399 Chuck Schumer. At one point she was a legislative aid to Chuck Schumer. 110 00:08:37,639 --> 00:08:43,600 The DC's City council Leans left no question about it, And Sophie, I 111 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,519 wonder if you think that's why for years this kind of just went untouched, 112 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,759 like people assumed there was basically nothing to be done about it. You know, 113 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,960 even if people are interpreting the statute incorrectly, who's going to you know, 114 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:01,480 take that risk in such a blue city. That strikes me as actually 115 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:05,559 one of the most interesting parts of this story. Yeah, you know, 116 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:11,159 I'm really unsure why nothing was ever done to rectify this. I think there 117 00:09:11,399 --> 00:09:16,279 people just weren't talking and they weren't telling the government that there was this issue 118 00:09:16,279 --> 00:09:20,600 going on. I will say, back in twenty seventeen, the DC government 119 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,320 made it a bit easier to get pepper spray. You used to even though 120 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,159 it was legal back then, you used to have to go to your local 121 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:33,600 police officer and register it, which is ridiculous. It's pepper spray. Why 122 00:09:33,639 --> 00:09:37,960 do you have to register pepper spray. Pretty soon you're gonna have to actually 123 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,720 register pepper I know. So it's like it just at least they got rid 124 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:48,720 of that. So I'm not sure how Amazon had come to this conclusion, 125 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:52,879 but I do think that, you know, if they maybe some people were 126 00:09:52,879 --> 00:09:54,639 thinking, if they made it easier to get pepper spray, then what would 127 00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:58,919 be the next self defense tool that's going to be easier to get? Is 128 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,879 our stunt gun's going to easier to get or more powerful, and then it 129 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,840 leads to guns. So you just don't know what connection they were making there, 130 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:11,039 and I'm really unsure why no one had made any move on this sooner. 131 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,440 Yeah, it does seem somewhat baffling. And that's the next part that 132 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,399 I want to ask you about. This is actually in the legislation that the 133 00:10:20,799 --> 00:10:26,399 council passed on an emergency basis, and this is surrounding at Mayor Bowser this 134 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,720 week. You know, if folks don't necessarily if if folks are outside DC 135 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,879 and don't necessarily care so much about everything that happens on a local level, 136 00:10:33,279 --> 00:10:37,919 DC is experiencing when a lot of major cities are experiencing, and then what 137 00:10:37,039 --> 00:10:39,720 a lot of the people who sort of live in the suburbs and have the 138 00:10:41,159 --> 00:10:43,000 ripple effects where they, you know, don't want to park downtown and take 139 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,960 their kids to a museum or anything like that. It's a lot of the 140 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,840 same. And this is from the bill. Quote from the bill. As 141 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,399 of November six, twenty twenty three, violent crime is forty percent higher than 142 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,080 it was at the same date last year. The majority of the increase is 143 00:10:56,159 --> 00:11:03,480 due to robberies increasing by sixty nine percent and homicides rising by thirty three percent. 144 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:07,360 In this environment, district residents need easy and reliable access to tools that 145 00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:13,679 decrease their vulnerability and empower them to address threats to their fifty eight personal safety. 146 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:20,320 Again, that is straight up from the legislation. And so Sophie, 147 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:22,919 and by the way, if I've said Sophia, that's because Sophie goes by 148 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,240 both Sophia and Sophia, which is super helpful because I can't get it wrong 149 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:33,639 whichever one I use. But Sophie, if is that an example maybe of 150 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,279 the situation having to get worse before it could get better, That things just 151 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,080 got so bad here in the district that even people who had never thought about 152 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:46,720 this before were sort of forced to confront the issue of self defense. I 153 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,440 think that's exactly what it is. And I had made that point in my 154 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:56,799 article that violent crime has risen year over year in DC, and even though 155 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,919 I feel safe most of the time that I'm walking around the streets of DC 156 00:12:01,039 --> 00:12:07,120 and living here, I'm still aware of the fact that robberies are rising, 157 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,919 gun violence is rising, and so I just I need to take care of 158 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,279 myself. My friends need to take care of themselves. So we all had 159 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,720 slowly been getting access to these different self defense tools, and I think that 160 00:12:20,879 --> 00:12:26,600 was really what that line in the article is really what pushed the council member 161 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:33,159 to listen. Because everyone's talking about the crime rate raising. Everyone is talking 162 00:12:33,159 --> 00:12:39,000 about that throughout the nation. About DC. It's somewhat becoming a laughing stock. 163 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:43,440 I see memes about it all over Instagram and Twitter, which is sad. 164 00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:48,759 But I think that was a good turning point for them, and you 165 00:12:48,799 --> 00:12:52,480 know that this is an easy piece of legislation that they can get past to 166 00:12:52,879 --> 00:13:00,000 get a little bit of political favor. 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You can go to gold code dot com slash Federalist to get your 182 00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:16,039 free twenty twenty three gold IRA Kit today or call eight five, five six 183 00:14:16,159 --> 00:14:22,559 one eight ten thirty. Unlike the digital dollar presss medals cannot be manipulated with 184 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,919 the click of a button. So visit gold code dot com slash federalist or 185 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:31,240 call eight five five six one eight one zero three zero that's gold code dot 186 00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:39,159 com slash federalist. Or call eight five five six one eight ten thirty. 187 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,440 Yeah, I think that's really interesting because again, like I've lived here since 188 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,960 the Obama years, and it's never felt quite like it. It's felt like 189 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,440 in the last couple of years, and you know, it's just I wonder 190 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:56,559 if you could talk a little bit more about being a woman in a major 191 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,919 city where violent crime is rising and having this thought, you know, I 192 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,240 need to replenish my pepper spray supply because it got taken away at a concert. 193 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,519 You know, even just on that basic level, because I think it 194 00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:11,240 gets taken for granted. Up you've taken for granted in conservative circles. We're 195 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,639 sort of all on the same page, and in fact, wish that it 196 00:15:13,679 --> 00:15:18,759 was wish perhaps it was easier to conceal carry in DC. It's not that 197 00:15:18,879 --> 00:15:20,720 easy, but uh, you know, we wish maybe it was easier to 198 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,679 equip ourselves with other self defense methods and all of that. So it's almost 199 00:15:26,679 --> 00:15:30,320 taken for granted that if you were having this conversation with somebody on the left, 200 00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:35,919 you there is something psychologically important about having something that you can carry in 201 00:15:35,919 --> 00:15:39,720 your bag or in your pocket to defend yourself. Can you just talk a 202 00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:43,519 little bit more about that. Yeah, So I carry my boover's right on 203 00:15:43,559 --> 00:15:48,080 my keychain, so it's with me at all times. Though it is a 204 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:54,759 bit frustrating because you most bars, clubs, concert venues, even the museums 205 00:15:54,759 --> 00:15:58,519 in DC, you can't carry the pepper spray into so that's how a lot 206 00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:00,720 of people lose theirs, or you just have to leave it at home, 207 00:16:00,799 --> 00:16:03,399 and those a lot of those are the places that you're going at night. 208 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:07,559 So that's something frustrating. And I hopefully will be able to write on that 209 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:14,120 one soon and get those rules change. So that's not legislation. But yeah, 210 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,360 as a woman, really, as anyone living in DC, it's so 211 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:25,200 important that I carry something on me to protect myself personally, I really don't 212 00:16:25,399 --> 00:16:27,799 want to carry a gun. It's like you said, it's difficult to get 213 00:16:27,799 --> 00:16:32,000 a concealed carry and that's just not something that I want to go through totally, 214 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,639 totally, for it's just I don't I wouldn't be the best person to 215 00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:41,639 have a gun. So pepper spray seems like a good option for me and 216 00:16:41,679 --> 00:16:44,679 for a lot of my friends, a lot of the women that I've talked 217 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:48,279 to. I, for example, I have a small dog. I have 218 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,200 to take her out every night, especially now as it's getting darker earlier. 219 00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:59,679 I'm always walking her around at night, and sometimes I'm not in the best 220 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,680 area. Yeah, so I'm being cognizant of my surroundings. I'm being vigilant. 221 00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:07,599 I'm making sure I'm seeing who's walking around me. I'm looking around, 222 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,079 but I still have to pay attention to my dog. So if something, 223 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,759 if someone comes up and tries to accost me, at least I have pepper 224 00:17:15,799 --> 00:17:18,240 spray, so we can go. I can spray them and we can run 225 00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:22,240 away. So and then you don't have the whole conscious of I don't want 226 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,799 to shoot someone. I really don't want to have to deal with that. 227 00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:30,680 So it just it's a much easier thing to hold on to. But yeah, 228 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,920 it's just that's something that you have to think about as a woman. 229 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:36,839 I like that you have that example of your dog, because you know, 230 00:17:36,839 --> 00:17:41,079 it's really easy, especially for people who maybe don't live in cities, never 231 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,359 have lived in cities, or have lived in you very very safe cities, 232 00:17:44,759 --> 00:17:48,720 to say, for example, you don't go out at night. Be smart, 233 00:17:48,839 --> 00:17:51,400 you know, don't do X, Y and Z. But there are 234 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,839 certain things that sometimes you know it's dark out and you need to walk out 235 00:17:55,839 --> 00:17:59,119 to the grocery store. There are certain things that you absolutely can't get around 236 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,440 if you do live city. Walking your dog is a really good example. 237 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,319 Maybe you had to work late to make money to pay your rent, maybe 238 00:18:06,319 --> 00:18:11,000 you work a third shift. All of these different problems are unavoidable for some 239 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:17,400 people. And having that ability, knowing that you'd have that ability if someone 240 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:21,400 were to again, we're talking about a city where homicides are up thirty three 241 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,839 percent and robbery is up sixty nine percent. First of all, people who 242 00:18:25,839 --> 00:18:27,799 want to commit crimes should know that a lot of young women are going to 243 00:18:27,839 --> 00:18:32,559 have pepper spray on their keychains. I mean that in and of itself seems 244 00:18:32,599 --> 00:18:37,640 to me such an important part of this too. Exactly. You know, 245 00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:41,200 my mom always says to me not to take the Metro after dark. Well, 246 00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:44,240 it gets dark at four thirty, and I need to come home after 247 00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:48,599 work, so I don't think it would be much safer if I'm walking forty 248 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:52,720 five minutes versus taking the metro. So some of these things are unavoidable, 249 00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:56,160 and I don't think we should go and do any sort of victim blaming of 250 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,279 why are you outside at night? Because I live in a city and I 251 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,599 have to be I have to be an adult and I have to do these 252 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,160 things, and people should know that women are going to protect themselves. But 253 00:19:07,319 --> 00:19:12,640 I think this also goes past just a women's issue. Robberies are typically, 254 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:17,839 at least in DC, they're targeted towards men. I've talked to so many 255 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,039 men that live in my apartment building that have told me that they've been robbed 256 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,319 right on the corner where we live, that they've been robbed at gunpoint, 257 00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:27,880 and so they should be carrying pepper spray, they should have some sort of 258 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:34,720 weapon on them as well. This goes across all genders and it's honestly terrifying, 259 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:37,720 But you can't live in that fear. So you have to find a 260 00:19:37,759 --> 00:19:42,880 way that you can keep yourself safe and you can have that peace of mind 261 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:48,039 as well. Yeah, and another kind of layer of the story that I 262 00:19:48,079 --> 00:19:55,680 really like is going to get into maybe a behind the curtain media story. 263 00:19:55,759 --> 00:20:00,519 But you mentioned that you didn't even know this was on Christina henderson since radar 264 00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:06,519 or anybody in DC government's radar. And that's so interesting to me as somebody 265 00:20:06,519 --> 00:20:11,000 who works in media, because one of the first things that I learned, 266 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:17,960 somebody here at Federalist HQ just is sneezing up the storm. It's which I 267 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,640 actually really enjoy in the background. It's a it's in media. You One 268 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:29,799 of the first things I learned was that you you don't quite understand how powerful 269 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,880 just an op ed in the Washington Examiner or a tweet can be until you 270 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,000 kind of get involved and start doing it. And I wanted to ask you, 271 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,680 Sophie, about that aspect of all of this. If when you reflect 272 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:47,400 on, you know, publishing this piece back in July and then come November 273 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:52,000 being surprised with like an actual moment that must have felt very empowering, seeing 274 00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:57,200 actual change happen in your city on this scale. Were you surprised to find 275 00:20:57,319 --> 00:21:02,640 that somebody had read this and had worked on it and all all the while 276 00:21:02,759 --> 00:21:07,359 you sort of didn't even know. You just had maybe felt like you dropped 277 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,440 your thoughts, you dropped your argument out there and people read it. But 278 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:18,200 that was that. Yeah. I think surprised is an understatement. Anytime someone 279 00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:21,880 comments at work or one of my friends that they've read my work or they 280 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,920 saw out on like goo Google search, on Twitter, I'm surprised. So 281 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,559 to see that a member of the DC government was reading it and was aware 282 00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:37,799 of this happening was mind blowing to me. I've been in policy for a 283 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:44,279 little over three years now, and I've been writing and publishing op eds for 284 00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:48,519 the past year, and this is the first thing that I can say that 285 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,960 is directly attributed to me in my influence, and that's really exciting. As 286 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,039 someone that works in policy, you're often just you're talking to a wall, 287 00:21:57,079 --> 00:22:00,799 it feels like, or you're just talking to people that agree with you, 288 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,519 and you're not really seeing change being made, or the change being made is 289 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,240 really really slow going. So seeing that this was able to happen and she 290 00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:18,000 was able to introduce that legislation and then in the next day or two it 291 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:23,119 passed was so amazing to me and was really motivating me. I think, 292 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,839 as most people in policy feel sometimes you just you feel like, what are 293 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,240 you doing? What are we doing here? We're not really getting work done. 294 00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:37,440 Maybe my time would be better spent in media or in working on the 295 00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:41,519 hill where I can get actual things past. So it was really exciting to 296 00:22:41,519 --> 00:22:45,359 see that I was being listened to in that my opinions mattered and they were 297 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,359 being heard. Yeah, And the reason I bring that up is actually just 298 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:59,319 because it's amazing a how closely people in public policy and in business track what 299 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,680 people say on social media and actually in the media. They all have Google 300 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,920 alerts for these types of things, and it's just people would be surprised at 301 00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:11,559 you know, you can write something and that's not this is not what happened 302 00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:15,200 in this case. But you could write something on a random blog or from 303 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:21,640 an anonymous Twitter account and it could cause an earthquake inside an ad agency, 304 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,559 or inside a c suite, or inside of a conference room at the DCCD 305 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:32,119 Council something like that, because people do pay really, really close attention, 306 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,160 which I think is almost like it's empowering in this time when things feel so 307 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,759 overwhelming and daunting and people feel like they lack agency in the face of you 308 00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:47,960 know, all of these big, big challenges, big companies, you know, 309 00:23:48,039 --> 00:23:51,720 big problems. It just it seems so tough. But they pay really 310 00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:56,079 really close attention to what people say in the present and social media. So 311 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,279 I mean, Sophie like part of that is just it's it's pretty impressive that 312 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,160 you wrote a good enough argument, And that's my question is also, how 313 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,960 do you think you were persuasive? You know there is there an argument you 314 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:18,119 think that really it got the attention and effectively brought someone to this cause who 315 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:25,079 maybe has a background on the left. Yeah, so I think this saw 316 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,319 success because I was really passionate about it. It was something that had personally 317 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,279 affected me. I knew it was affecting all of my friends, all of 318 00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:36,960 my coworkers, really any woman living in d C. So I was able 319 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,480 to write a pretty passionate argument, and I think connecting in the crime data 320 00:24:42,519 --> 00:24:48,680 there was really helpful because it's not showing that this is there's no reason to 321 00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:52,880 be making this emergency legislation. There's a real reason to be putting our efforts 322 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,480 into making it easier to get self defense tools, and it's because we feel 323 00:24:56,559 --> 00:25:03,359 unsafe and there's documented evidence is why we should feel unsafe and getting that national 324 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,680 attention I think really helped push this forward because, like you said, I 325 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,200 published this back in July, and now we're seeing progress in November, and 326 00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:15,279 policy wise, that's pretty quick to get something done, but I would have 327 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,599 liked to see this happen in July. But yeah, I really think that 328 00:25:19,839 --> 00:25:26,759 showing that there's a reason to be a bit afraid, though I don't think 329 00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:32,000 we should be living our lives in fear, really helped push this forward because 330 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,119 this is a simple tool that everyone should have, at least every woman should 331 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,960 be carrying on them that lives in a city, And there was no reason 332 00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:44,920 that I shouldn't be able to get my hands on this, especially if it's 333 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,359 legal. Retailers should not be the ones telling me what I can and cannot 334 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,599 buy. If anything, that's bad business on their parts. So I'm glad 335 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,720 that they were able to make this clarification, So hopefully retailers get in line 336 00:25:56,799 --> 00:26:02,319 and understand that we should be able to purchase this as well. Are there 337 00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:07,680 any big picture lessons or anything you kind of take away from this experience? 338 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,079 Obviously we've talked about, you know, being empowering and surprising and just a 339 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:17,240 great step for women and men in the district and hopefully in other cities where 340 00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:18,680 this may be a problem as well. I mean that can be a model 341 00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:23,279 a piece of legislation like this if you're having if Amazon and other retailers are 342 00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:27,559 having similar interpretation problems, this can be maybe a model for people in other 343 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,640 cities to follow. But what did this? Did this change your outlook on 344 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,799 politics? Does this sort of make you more optimistic as you kind of fairly 345 00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:40,400 earlier in your career, you know, as you approach you know some of 346 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,200 these big challenges going forward. I think the biggest lesson here was if you 347 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:51,039 feel passionately about something, you should speak up. I after I had published 348 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,559 or posted this on the news of the legislation on Twitter, on my Instagram, 349 00:26:56,079 --> 00:26:59,119 I had so many of my friends that live here message me and go, 350 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,920 oh, get it, like, thank you so much for doing this. 351 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,839 I had friends in New York City letting me know that it's even more 352 00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:08,839 difficult for them to get it because it's totally illegal there. I think, 353 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,839 so, I think this is really showing that this is not just a DC 354 00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:18,319 problem, that this is affecting other cities. And I think this once you 355 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,920 get this momentum and you get this model legislation. As you said, you 356 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,119 can go to different cities and get it pasted. And so once you have 357 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:32,920 something that you feel passionately about it, run with it because your voice matters, 358 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,960 and your representatives are there to represent you and you should be speaking with 359 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,640 them. That's such a great message. And finally, just as you know, 360 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,079 again we've been talking about the rise in crime, and actually we cover 361 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,920 that a lot on the show, not just in DC, but in other 362 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,559 cities. And you know, this is something that we've seen deep blue cities 363 00:27:52,160 --> 00:28:00,200 with kind of establishment democrat mayors Amuriel Bowser and Eric Adams or even a governor 364 00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:03,240 like Gavin Newsom is dealing with this. Actually, as we talk in San 365 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,880 Francisco right now with the visit a Chin Pang this week, this is something 366 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,599 that people London breed in San Francisco have really had to grapple with. And 367 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,720 I want to just ask one of these big questions, Sophie while we're at 368 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,680 it. As you think about this, and as you think about you know, 369 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:25,400 why it is you feel the need to defend yourself in the city amidst 370 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:29,799 this rising crime. I suspect you're somebody who would probably want pepper spray even 371 00:28:29,839 --> 00:28:33,279 if crime wasn't quite at this level. But when you think about where these 372 00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:37,359 cities are are headed, why do you think it is? It doesn't have 373 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:44,839 anything to do with the post COVID environment or the climate of you know, 374 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,920 maybe societal breakdown. What do you how are you thinking about this as somebody 375 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,200 who has put some thought into it and is living the situation right now. 376 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:00,720 Yeah, that's a that's a tough question. It's definitely a lot of issues 377 00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:04,200 going on. So DC in particular, we're seeing a lot of turnover with 378 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:10,720 our police. They're not able to keep the workforce. They're recruiting people slower 379 00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:18,319 than they're able to Then they're recruiting people slower than they're leaving, so they're 380 00:29:18,359 --> 00:29:23,480 having a dwindling police force, and they're not really going after actual criminals. 381 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:29,440 These people are getting let out, so we're having criminals on the streets that 382 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,240 are going after they're they're having all of this gun violence. We're seeing children 383 00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:41,799 in DC, teenagers as young as thirteen, committing crimes and promoting this violence. 384 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:48,799 But even in other cities besides DC, we're seeing where they were not 385 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,359 being tough on crime, Like in San Francisco. Mayor London, Breed is 386 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:59,000 now kind of turning on the points that she was making. She's flipping because 387 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,519 she's going to be up reelection soon and her soft on crime policies are not 388 00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:10,799 working out for her. They're increasing homelessness, they're increasing violent crime, and 389 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,519 so now she's becoming a bit more tough. And so I think that is 390 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,400 the pattern that we're going to be seeing, is that these cities are going 391 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,480 to be stricter, and so I think that's going to have some ramifications for 392 00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:27,000 criminal justice issues, but I think the safety of individuals and being able to 393 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:33,759 live in a city and have that peace of mind is of the most important 394 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:41,680 part of this conversation. So hopefully the mayors of these different liberal cities will 395 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:47,119 take notice and understand that even though they were trying to do maybe a virtuous 396 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:52,119 thing with these criminal justice reforms, that it's not turning out for the better, 397 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,400 and that their cities are not turning out better. So maybe we'll see 398 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:02,799 some some better in the next couple of years, but I think I'm more 399 00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:06,720 hopeful than most. Yeah, I know, you raise it actually a good 400 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,119 point, and you know, it makes me think that these last couple of 401 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:15,119 years have set the cause of criminal justice reform back a really long way. 402 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,839 And you know, the early twenty tens, was it the New York Times 403 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:25,440 or Time magazines sort of declared the libertarian moment and Brand Paul was talking a 404 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,079 lot about this stuff. The Trump administration in the First Step Act, a 405 00:31:29,119 --> 00:31:32,759 lot of people are in the criminal justice reform space felt like there's the wind 406 00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:34,640 was at their back and there was a lot of momentum. And as much 407 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,279 as I may disagree with different proposals or whatever, it is, obviously there's 408 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,759 a balance that needs to be struck. And I think there are some really 409 00:31:41,759 --> 00:31:47,519 worthy causes within the criminal justice reform movement. And my gosh, this the 410 00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:56,039 years since COVID and the kind of radicalism and incompetence that's been shown by some 411 00:31:56,359 --> 00:32:00,279 Democratic mayors, I don't think the left has quite realized reckoned with the reality 412 00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:06,160 that's really probably set some of these causes back quite a bit, because these 413 00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:09,240 these rises in crime are very steep and won't scar a lot of people for 414 00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:17,240 years to come. And I think COVID definitely had an impact on it. 415 00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:22,519 You know, the development stunting for children, We're seeing a lot, a 416 00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:30,160 huge rise in children committing crimes in DC. So there's I have no understanding 417 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,440 of how that's had an impact on it, and I don't think anyone has 418 00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:37,920 the data there, But I really do think this has affected the criminal justice 419 00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:45,680 advocacy that we've that we really saw start starting in twenty twenty after the George 420 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,039 Floyd murder. So and it's sad that that is now stunting it because these 421 00:32:50,079 --> 00:32:55,680 are somewhat unrelated. By these just soft on crime policies are not helping, 422 00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:01,319 and they're really just affecting good citizens and keeping them from living their lives. 423 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,920 Yeah, another point worth remembering. We don't even think about all of the 424 00:33:06,039 --> 00:33:14,000 kids that are roped into crimes or who are actually victims of not having a 425 00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:19,160 two parent household, or victims of the culture in so many ways, which 426 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,119 doesn't excuse any of their culpability. And we are talking, as you mentioned 427 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,960 about murders in some cases, we're talking about violent robberies and other cases. 428 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,440 But these are lives that are ruined down the line, and that's victims first 429 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,440 and foremost. But oh my gosh, the amount of children that are being 430 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:42,039 swept up into this needlessly because so many of our social ties were frayed during 431 00:33:42,079 --> 00:33:46,319 COVID because schools were closed and anti social behavior was harder to correct and notice. 432 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,799 It is a real tragedy and it's going to be with us for years 433 00:33:49,839 --> 00:33:58,119 to come. I completely agree. It's really sad when the headlines are about 434 00:33:58,119 --> 00:34:00,599 a thirteen year old committing a murder, fourteen year old, fifteen year old 435 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:07,119 robbed carjackings. I don't They've tried to put curfews in for the youth in 436 00:34:07,199 --> 00:34:12,679 DC, and I just don't see that being enforced. I can look outside 437 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,039 out out of my own window, and I see them running rampant, and 438 00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:22,440 so I think there really needs to be an increase in community programs and helping 439 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:27,320 out these families. But that's not going to be a band aid solution, 440 00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:30,800 and that's going to take a lot of time to reverse the damage that's been 441 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:37,559 done well. Sophie Hamilton is a fellow and a contributor over at Young Voices. 442 00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:42,559 You can follow her on Twitter at Sophie Hamilton. That's Sophie with an 443 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,039 f Sophie, thank you for joining us, Thank you so much for having 444 00:34:45,079 --> 00:34:49,159 me on Emily, of course, and congratulations. I mean this is just 445 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,079 fantastic. And I say that from one woman in DC to another. Thank 446 00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:58,360 you. I appreciate it, and I'm really still thankful for a council member, 447 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,679 Christina Henderson, for listening and also for calling me out for my efforts. 448 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,480 I appreciate that so much. Yeah, that's it. That is a 449 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,159 classy move, just a class act and on the right side of this one. 450 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,599 So we really appreciate it. And you have been listening to another edition 451 00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:15,039 of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Kashinski, culture editor here at The 452 00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:19,360 Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, be lovers of 453 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:35,719 freedom and anxious for the fray. You got me right, you