WEBVTT

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I'd like to talk a little bit
about toilet seats. Ask not what your

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country can do for you, what
you can do for your country. Read

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my lips. Today, I am
directing our House Committee to open a formal

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impeachment inquirers to President Joe By.
Welcome to the Rick Shaye Podcast over six

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hundred and fifty eight. I'm Rob
Long, joined by Peter Robinson. Our

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guest today is the great Andy McCarthy. I agree, let's have ourselves podcast

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you'll never get bored with when we
never get born. Hello, and welcome

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to the Rickshay Podcast. This is
episode number six hundred fifty eight, which

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unbelieving, unbelievable. You're just making
that up. You are cheating, making

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it up. I don't know if
I'm making it up, but I'm certainly

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reading it. I am Rob Long, coming to New York City and with

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me as pretty much as usual,
but for at least five hundred consistent consistent

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of eight is Peter Robinson in Palo
Out to Peter, how are you.

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I'm fine. I'm fine. I
was a little better until I heard the

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number six hundred and fifty eight,
eight one per week. Yeah, that

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implies that we've been at this for
a while. Yeah, you'd think that

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we'd be rich, but no such
luck. We are usually joined by James

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Lilacs, who sort of just runs
the show here. He's off this week,

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which means, unfortunately, I am
gonna do that stuff. I'm already

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sure that I'm going to be bad
at him. And we have a guest

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today, an old friend, one
of you know, Look, can we

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just get this out now so we
don't have to get out when he's here?

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Sure? Really one of the great
American writers, Andy McCarthy. Wait,

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I'm sorry, I just had a
a I just had kind of a

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brain aneurysm. Yes you did.
You're confusing Andy McCarthy Andy Ferguson exactly because

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I kept thinking Andy Ferguson, who
is a great writer. I mean,

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Andy McCarthy's a great writer too.
But I was just for summer. I

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don't know why I did that.
That's that's not a good sign. I

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don't know I can I could probably
mentally deteriorate even more and still be more

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mentally alert than the This is current
and perhaps next president United States. This

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is Joe Biden's America after all,
right, right, Actually, come to

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think of it, come to think
of it, I hope he gets re

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elected because you know, the benefit
of Joe Biden for you and me,

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Rob, he gives us cover.
That's true. That's what Jeff Bush said

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that on a podcast we had him
on just a while ago. He said,

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like, she's like, I'm sixty
seven years old. I go to

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Washing DC, and I'm like,
I'm like a young guy exactly like that.

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All right, So, so Andy
McCarthy, we have a lot to

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talk about because apparently there's been some
indictments in the news. But meanwhile,

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before we get going, and of
course we want to thank our sponsors today

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Zibiotics and Shop if I will get
to those later. You have a topic

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you want to talk. Yes,
I do have a topic I want to

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discuss, and I want to discuss
a raise. I should say, yeah,

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I would like to except nicely put
nicely put. You know where this

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is going. There are some who
stick up for the defenseless. I stick

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up for the unmentionable. I rise, mister Chairman, to speak to speak

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in praise of toilet seats. And
here is why we had to replace one.

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Here. I live in an older
house and the toilet seat cracked and

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we went to the hardware store and
bought a replacement, cheap replacement, just

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a typical toilet seat. And do
you know what has happened? Do you

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know what the latest marvel of free
markets? It is now standard, even

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on a cheap, cheap toilet seat, that they lower themselves slowly somehow or

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other some engineers somewhere, they don't
slam down anymore. And so I've sort

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of been noticing this in restrooms across
America. This is capitalism, as Milton

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Friedman used to teach us, is
the benefit of living in a free market

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society is the hundreds and thousands and
the compounding of small improvements that make our

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lives just a little bit better.
And I raised five children, three of

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the males, and the slamming of
toilet seats used to be one of the

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banes of my existence. Now the
kids are older, they're but they'll be

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back for Christmas, and this time
there will be no slamming. And so,

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mister Chairman, in honor of Milton
Friedman of two hundred years, is

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a mostly free market, I bring
to your attention toilet seats. I'm done,

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that's right, Although I have to
say it took him a while,

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right, I mean that as as
I don't really mean that as a kind

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of crism of capitalism, but it
does seem to me that every now and

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then, I mean, we all
notice this every now and then. I

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mean there's an old joke, right, two economists were walking down the street

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and one of them looks down and
says, hey, look, there's a

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twenty dollar bill on the sidewalk,
and the other doesn't even look down and

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says, can't be someone would have
picked it up by now, right,

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right, And so sometimes you're like
thinking, like, you know, I

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bet you they were like fifty people, maybe a hundred people. I'm just

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being conservative estimate here. Who before
the guy invented the toilet seat that doesn't

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slam, But you know what,
we need me a toilet he doesn't slam.

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That's what I should do. I
should do that. Well. But

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you know what, if there was
any someone's got to have tried it already.

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And I think it's not just capitalism, but it's a certain kind of

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entrepreneurial risk taker that says, I
even if they did it, they did

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it wrong, and I can do
it better. You know, Sometimes,

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like you notice that there's a business
somewhere you didn't even know there was a

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business there. I mean, you
know, you look at Starbucks, right,

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there's no reason why. At no
point did anybody really say, you

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know, I just I drink this
stuff, but I don't like it.

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There should be a coffee shop on
every corner in the America. Nobody ever

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said that. No one ever said
that, And yet he just made a

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better cup of coffee and charged you
more for it, right, I mean,

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like I'm so old. I remember
when the best cup of coffee you

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could get on the road was that
McDonald's right, Right. I would go

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into the office in the morning at
my first job, and I would have

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a I would have gone through the
drive through to get a big, big

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thing in McDonald's coffee. People with
the oh Man McDonald's coffee. I love

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that coffee. And that was before
Starbucks supposed so anyway. The other example

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Paul Romer, the economist Paul Romer, whom I knew, We were friends

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when he was here at Stanford.
He's gone off to I think he was

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the chief economist at the World Bank. He's a big time economist. And

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the insight that made him famous was
that there was all was I'm putting it

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very crudely. He put it mathematically
as best I understood it. What it

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came down to was this, there
was always room for innovation. All was

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room for innovation. And the great
example of that. This isn't Paul's example,

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but this is my example. Wheels
have existed for what five thousand years,

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and suitcases have existed since at least
the middle of the nineteenth century.

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Sure, but it wasn't until sometimes
I'm in the nineteen eighties when somebody said,

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wait, wheels, suitcases, wheels
suitcases. I know, I'll put

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wheels on suitcases any day. Everybody's
life better all all of a sudden.

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Okay, that's a very good point, because it did, I think.

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But then you had but then someone
now you're going to find the dark cloud

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in the silver inside. But even
that was half done. Somebody put wheels,

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two wheels, two sets of wheels
on one side of the suitcase so

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you can kind of lean it and
drag it with the wheels. And then

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someone else said, wait a minute, we're gonna put two on, we

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might as well put four on.
And that made airports so much more pleasant,

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yes, for everyone. So so
I don't know what. I guess

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What I mean is that there's like
what I guess what that's what urban developers

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or urban theorists call in fill.
Right, There's there's always this idea that

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you're gonna you gotta go out and
find something on the edge, right,

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move out of the city to the
suburbs, and move out of the suburbs

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with the excerbs, keep moving out. And then there's people say, wall,

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wait a minute, you could do
infill by making the city itself nicer.

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There's opportunities where we don't look for
opportunities. So I guess that what

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I that's what I would say about
that your your your ode to capitalism.

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I would say I would add to
it, only you have to have it

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also an ode to a society that
rewards and encourages risk. Yes, you

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used to be an all statistic.
I know we have to get run here,

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but I used to be a statistic
about the when when Forbes is a

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real magazine? The Forbes four hundred
four was four hundred right was? I

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think it was fo Yeah, so
the four hundred richious people in America,

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and I think it's Malcolm Forbes Junior, who I once heard say that the

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best thing about that list to him
was that thirty percent every year of the

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names were new turned over exactly,
and that thirty percent weren't there anymore.

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And he said, that's how you
can She said, you will know that

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we'll have a really healthy system when
it's eighty twenty. Right, Well,

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it's been a nuffler wonderful podcasts.
Boy, we really do need James to

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keep it moving, so we do. We have Andy McCarthy coming meanwhile,

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before we go, before we jump
to him, a couple of non Andy

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McCarthy ish topics. Mitt Romney retiring, and there's a whole lot of speculation

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about that. I'm like, well, he could do this, that and

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the other. But I mean,
I take him at his word. He

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is seventy six, he is rich, he's clearly out of step with a

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Republican Party. He doesn't really want
to run again and then be as senator

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when he's eighty two. I think
every single seventy six year old in government

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should follow Mitt Romney into a splendid
and peaceful retirement. I will also say

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this, I look like bitt Romney
at seventy six when I'm seventy six.

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I mean I mean, I don't
know. I mean, I'm sitting here

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drinking a cup of coffee and I'm
going to have a couple of glasses of

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wine tonight, and I'm thinking,
like, Bam, maybe maybe maybe the

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Mormon's got something. The Mormons have
a lot, I think. Okay,

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Now, am I allowed to sound
peevish about Mitt Romney? Sure? Because

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I read the profile in The Atlantic, which apparently is the sort of was

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his teaser article about a biography of
him that's going to be coming out next

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year, written by McKay Coppins.
McKay coppins make Kay Coppins, I'm not

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sure how he pronounces his first name. Beautifully written, and he said that

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he and Mitt Romney have been spending
time together for two years. And here's

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what emerges. Mitt Romney has spent
two years telling McKay Coppins how he Mitt

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Romney is a far better human being
than the ninety nine other members of the

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United States Senate. It is so
sanctimonious that it just sort of took my

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breath away when you recall, as
Michael Brendan Doherty recalled on National Review the

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other day, that Mitt Romney,
for reasons of pure opportunism, became pro

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choice when he ran for governor of
Massachusetts, and then became pro life when

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he ran for president of the United
States. What I recall, because this

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irked me in particular given my early
jobs in my life in the White House,

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was that when he ran for Senator, he lost that election, But

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before he ran for governor, he
ran for the Senate in Massachusetts, and

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he couldn't say enough bad things about
Reagan and Bush. I'm not Reagan and

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I'm not Bush, he said in
a debate with Teddy Kennedy. And then,

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of course when he was running for
president, he couldn't say enough good

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things about Ronald Reagan and George Bush. None of this makes Mitt Romney a

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bad man. He has a wonderful
family who was a huge success in business.

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What it makes him is a working
politician and the idea that he somehow

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achieved some kind of purity. Of
course, I can understand his position on

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Trump, but the way in this
one, this one profile, he dissed

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his fellow members of the Senate working
politicians, including Mitch McConnell. You could

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put Mitch McConnell's accomplishments in the Senate
again, Mitt Romney partly, I think

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because he adopted this stance of such
sanctimoniousness. Mitt Romney has accomplished nothing in

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the United States Senate, and Mitch
McConnell has accomplishment after accomplishment after accomplishment,

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including the current composition of the Supreme
Court. So I it was time for

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that good and remarkable man to go
home some time ago in my humble opinion.

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Now, I don't like sounding peevish, but real good, thank you.

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I don't disagree with any of that. I will only say this that

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you don't. I thought, well, no, no, I mean I

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defend toilet seats. I thought you
would defend Romney. I think that the

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general decline in I think that often
people accurately diagnose a problem or deignos a

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disease that they themselves have. His
argument about the Republican Party now that it

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doesn't really stand for much and doesn't
really do anything, and it's kind of

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fake and a lot of you know, kabuky kind of outrage, I think

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it's absolutely true. I mean,
to me, the the symbol of the

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Republican Party today is Josh Holly m
shaking his fist in solidarity with the protesters

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on January sixth, on his way
into the Senate and then running like a

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terrified, terrified cat. Uh you
know an hour later. That to me

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is emblematic of the Republican Party.
A lot of talk, a lot of

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talk, and no action or no
no conviction. Put it that way.

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So I think he's right. I'm
not. I'm not comparing them and contrasting

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them negatively to the Democratic Party,
which is sort of uh specialized in this

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kind of behavior. For slugs.
I've been alive. I'm just everything seems

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to be reverting to the to the
really the lowest common denominator. But that

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said, the one product that Mitt
Romney doesn't need that I need and enjoy

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is zebiotics, because, let's face
it, after a night when you had

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a couple glasses of wine, is
it's Friday night. I'm gonna a couple

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glasses of wine. I don't bounce
back the next day like I used to.

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I apparently even have memory trouble.
I have to make a choice.

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Are you can have a great night
or a great next day? That is

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until I found zbiotics. Zbiotics pre
alcohol probiotic is the world's first genetically engineered

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probiotic It was invented by PhD scientists
to tackle rough mornings after drinking. And

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here's how it works. When you
drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic

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We thank zebiotics for sponsoring the Ricochet
podcast and for reminding me when I'm

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00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:40.759
gonna have to do at six o'clock
tonight. I should especially be so proud

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00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:45.680
of that bad but I am our
next guests, our only guest today.

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Thank god, Andy McCarthy. We've
known Andy long time. He's an old

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friend of this podcast. He's a
senior fellow at the National Review Institute NRI,

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00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:57.319
contributing editor there as well as Fox
News. He is here to explain

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00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:03.759
all the latest stuff going on in
uh in politics and criminal law, which,

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00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:11.319
by the way, are now the
same thing. Andy, welcome,

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Where are you wait? You're downstairs
in your own house, aren't you.

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I am, And I am in
Bucolic New Jersey. That's right. And

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you've got but you're doing a kind
of Oprah Winfrey stand up Mike there.

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Oh yeah. I can never make
this work, and I keep like knocking

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00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.200
it over whenever I try to put
it someplace because I'm just I'm a mess.

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Sorry, guys, I need the
zbiotic. That's other two. That's

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clearly the problem here. Okay,
so we gotta bunch of things to talk

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about, but let's first talk about
impeachment. So when when when Democrats impeach

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President Trump? Everybody said, Nancy
Pelosi said, did it? Everybody said,

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you didn't even have a vote.
You didn't even have a vote.

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You just open the inquiry, didn't
have a vote. She said, I

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don't need a vote. And then
when Kevin McCarthy opened impeachment inquiry, some

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people said, you didn't even have
a vote. Why don't you have a

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vote, and he said, I
don't need a vote. Who's right,

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the Speaker of the House, either
one or the people complaining either one.

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Well, it really depends up on
what they want to accomplish. If you

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want to actually have an impeachment committee
where you not only designated under the House

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rules, but importantly you establish the
jurisdiction for the committee and the scope of

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what it's allowed to investigate and what
a conserved subpoena is on, then you

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need a vote. And in point
of fact, when Nancy Pelosi did not

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have a vote in twenty nineteen,
the Trump administrator, the people like Kevin

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McCarthy not only went nuts over that
the Trump Justice Department, under a turn,

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General Barr ended up issuing Office of
Legal Counsel guidance to say that the

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probe, as long as it wasn't
supported by a vote in Congress, was

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illegitimate and therefore the administration didn't need
to comply with its subpoenas. Now,

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you know, you have to remember, I think always with impeachment that it's

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a political process, not a legal
one. So for example, the OLC

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in the Trump Justice Department could take
that position, but when the Democrat controlled

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House impeach Trump, the second article
of impeachment was for failure to comply with

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the subpoenas. The complication there is
that about six or seven weeks after Pelosi

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unilaterally authorized the inquiry without a vote, they took a vote. So eventually

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they did take a vote. But
I do think that it was that this

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move to have an impeachment inquiry or
to actually change the name on the door,

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because it's basically the same inquiry it
was the day before, but now

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they're going to call it an impeachment
inquiry. I really think it's an unforced

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error because you know, a week
ago, if Chairman Jamie Comber and the

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Oversight Committee issued a subpoena to some
component of the Biden administration and they didn't

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comply with the subpoena. That would
have been a lawful Oversight Committee subpoena,

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and the defiance of it could be
an article of impeachment down the road.

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Now, by having this this exercise
where you call it an impeachment inquiry but

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you don't vote for it, they're
giving the Biden administration the out to claim

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that the that the investigation is not
legitimate and just given the reason not to

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comply. Kim Strassell has it exactly
backwards in Today's Wall Street Journal. Kim

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said, an effect would have been
better to have a vote yes, but

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the Speaker doesn't have the votes.
He only has a majority of four,

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and they're going to be more than
four Republicans who get queasy about this.

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But still designating this an impeachment inquiry
gives Comber greater legal I beg your pardon.

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I can't quote her, but the
idea was that it gives Comber's subpoenas

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greater weight, and that's just wrong. I think it gives them greater political

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weight, Peter. It doesn't give
them greater legal weight. Now, now

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let's just put aside the trappings of
an impeachment inquiry. Today, just like

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last week, the Oversight Committee still
the Oversight Committee. Same with Ways and

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Means, same with the Justice Department. They have the same legal jurisdiction to

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issue subpoena as they did. You
know, they do now that they did

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before there was a designated labeled impeachment
inquiry. So I wouldn't want to suggest

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that this is a big deal because
they have sweeping jurisdiction in those committees.

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Yeah, and I think what Kim
is. The point that Kim is making,

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I think is the same point I
heard. Well, I've heard a

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number of people say that we you
know, now we have some up in

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our subpoenas. It's what they're saying
is publicly, you look worse if you

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defy something that's called an impeachment inquiry
subpoena. Maybe that's true. On the

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other hand, I was I was
on a program sometime today right before or

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right after Nancy Mace, who's on
the Overside Committee, and she said,

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you know, now that we're now
that we're an impeachment committee, our subpoenas

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have broader jurisdiction and we can really
go after this stuff. And I don't

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see that at all. I just
don't think that's true. By the way,

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let the record show I start talking
this way whenever you're on, Andy,

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let the records show that although it's
not quite twelve thirty back east in

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New Jersey, this very day,
Counselor McCarthy has already appeared on so many

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shows that you can't remember quite when, or quite what, or who the

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host was, or who the other
guests were. It's all a jumble already.

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And the man hasn't even had lunch
yet. Hey, so, Andy,

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what further on impeachment? Then we
have to get to Trump, because

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we just have to. I'm afraid
it's sort of mandatory. We are of

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an age, the three of us, and I remember being taught when I

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was a kid about the impeachment of
Andrew Johnson just after the Civil War.

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I don't remember whether any teacher ever
used these words, but I remember having

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the feeling that that would never happen
again, that it was part of the

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upheaval of the Civil War. It
was an extraordinary and singular moment in the

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life of the nation. Impeachment proceedings
began against Richard Nixon. And this again

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I don't remember, I remember watching
it, and but what I remember,

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what stands out in my mind is
how shocked my parents were that a president

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of the United States was being impeached. It was just in our little home

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in Vestal, New York, upstate
New York, ordinary Middle America. It

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00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:33.960
was a shocking event. And now
we've had Bill Clinton, Donald Trump twice,

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Joe Biden. Is it seems to
me, I mean, I just

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want to hear is the whole procedure? Clearly this overuses the procedure? But

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is it also debasing the Constitution?
Is it debasing the country itself? Something

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00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:57.039
just feels badly, badly wrong,
doesn't it. Yeah, I mean it's

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00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:02.680
debasing something that we're not be in
the Constitution. If it weren't very important,

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00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:08.640
the Madison thought that the impeachment clause
was indispensable in terms of the ability

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of Congress to respond to potential ruinous
abuse of power by this very powerful executive

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branch that they were creating. And
look, I have the same memory that

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you do. I remember, you
know, running home from someplace I'd probably

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00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.039
school. I don't maybe it was
the summertime. But I remember running home

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to watch Alexander Butterfield testify and shocked
the country by saying that Nixon had these

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00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:41.160
tapes. So but but I actually
think you guys, both of you,

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in your coming at this your own
way, are suited to no no from

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your own experience. I mean,
but I think you're better suited to address

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this than I am, because my
belief, for what it's worth, is

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that this media age that we are
in has changed a lot of things,

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00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.240
and impeachment is just one of them. Like, for example, Peter,

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00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:17.359
I'm sure that speeches get written differently
today than they used to, and Rob,

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00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:23.920
just like the messaging that goes into
conveying a political campaign or initiative or

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00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:29.279
whatever is vastly different today than it
used to. And what I'm afraid of

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is that impeachment, having been now
cheapened into something kind of like censure,

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is just another arsenal in our political
theater. I mean, everybody knows that

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Biden is never ever going to be
impeached, and in point of fact,

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the Republicans don't want to impeach them
because that we get President Harris. So

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you know, even if they even
if they could they wouldn't. But this

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00:27:53.119 --> 00:28:02.279
just seems to be a media strategy
driven by mainly the pro Trump Republicans in

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00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:07.759
the House because they and Trump would
like to have a parallel political trial proceeding

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00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:15.599
going on the Capitol Hill while Trump
is undergoing all these other, you know,

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00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:19.240
criminal trials in the justice system.
I get all, but come in

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00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:22.200
robbed Well, no, I don't
want to invite him to come in because

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00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:26.960
he always disagrees with me. But
oh no, the politics of that I

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00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:30.880
get, and I and it's it's
sort of cheap and trod to me,

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00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:33.480
but it does. Yeah, that
seems to be what the moment demands.

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And maybe okay, but within this
there is I think I'm putting this to

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00:28:38.680 --> 00:28:45.279
you as a question something substantive and
important taking place. And I who thought

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00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:51.200
watching him on Fox News that James
Comer, the chairman of the committee that's

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00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:57.839
conducting these investigations. I thought at
first he was a pure showman. But

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that committee has uncovered important and real
information about Hunter Biden, his father's participating

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00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:15.079
in telephone calls, that the barisma
that Joe Biden had tried to the White

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00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:19.519
House had tried to portray Joe Biden's
participant as Vice President, his participation in

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00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:25.359
the effort to get the prosecutor in
Ukraine removed. They were saying all the

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00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:30.599
Europeans wanted that because the prosecutor himself
was back crooked. Turns out that's just

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00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:33.400
not so. The other the Europeans
didn't, they weren't involved, all right,

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00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:40.440
All of this has come out of
sort of old fashioned, almost Peter

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00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:48.400
Rodinho style, good staff work,
tough chairman, a certain relent relentlessness.

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00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:53.599
So there is something honorable and important
taking place? Or or is it?

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00:29:53.880 --> 00:29:57.640
Am I wrong about that? No? I think you're not only right,

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00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:02.759
I think it's all so the only
game in town. Uh, you know,

359
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.720
too much of what we now want
in the way of political accountability has

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00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:12.279
been uh, basically delegated to the
prosecutors at this point. And I think

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00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:18.319
the Framers would have thought it was
laughable that prosecutors, who are executive branch

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00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:25.400
subordinate officials could could possibly keep the
executive branch in check, and the president

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00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:34.400
in particular. So in this particular
instance, we have a prosecutor for the

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00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:40.960
Biden Justice Department because they wouldn't get
a real special counsel, a real independent

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00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.640
person, and he dawdled for the
five years that he's had this case,

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00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:52.200
not only Hunter, but the but
the broader family corruption investigation and all of

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00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:56.119
the a lot of the stuff that
you just alluded to, Peter, that

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00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:00.480
happened in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, in twenty sixteen, those are the

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00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:04.759
most important years because those were the
years that Joe Biden was vice president and

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00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:10.559
when they were trading on his influence
as a criminal justice batter. All that

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00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:17.480
stuff is gone now because he waited. Weiss waited until the statute of limitations

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00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.960
has run, and so far as
we saw yesterday, the only thing he's

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00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:26.200
brought is the one thing he could
bring that Joe Biden is not implicated in

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00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:32.079
Hunter's bad behavior. So that's the
gun charge. Yeah, but I think

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00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.839
that his job. He's called a
prosecutor. But basically his job here is

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00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:40.359
to disappear the case against the president. And if you don't, if Comber

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00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.359
doesn't make the case, then no
one's making it. This is one of

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00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:47.359
those I have a question that's an
anti question. And here's why it's an

379
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:52.920
anti question. You grew up in
New Jersey. You know something about politics

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00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:57.000
where elbows get thrown. I keep
trying to talk you into running for governor,

381
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.880
and I still think it's not too
late. But that's a never matter.

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00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:08.119
You know, politics in the raw. You were the United States Attorney

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00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:14.519
in New York, in Manhattan.
You tried terrorists, You tried people who

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00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:19.440
wanted to blow us, blow up
Americans and kill SI. You have seen

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00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:29.279
life, politics and the legal system
in the raw. Does what has taken

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00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:32.119
place in the Dubiden Justice Department?
Excuse me? The other piece I want

387
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:38.039
to give background two is that a
number of points over the years, I

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00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:44.960
have seen even Andy McCarthy, not
a cynic but a realist. I have

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00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:51.559
seen even Andy McCarthy shocked. You
knew or I don't know that you knew

390
00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:54.000
him deeply personally, but you knew
Jim Comey, for example. And there

391
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:58.720
was a moment when Jim Comey was
first coming to our attention. What is

392
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:00.519
that six or seven years ago now
when you said, no, no,

393
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:06.079
I think he's a good guy,
He's an honorable guy. And Jim Comey

394
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:10.559
shocked you. The behavior of the
FBI shocked you. Is what's happening in

395
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:16.880
the Biden Department of Justice or what
has happened shocking even to Andy McCarthy or

396
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:20.119
do you look at that and say, nah, that's the way it happens.

397
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:23.680
Well, it is the way it
happens, but it's atrocious. I

398
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:28.400
the only reason I fight on the
word shock, Peter, is I'm beyond

399
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.400
shocking now for some of the reasons
that you've described. And I you know,

400
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:37.440
look, I've been one hundred and
eighty degrees wrong about some of this

401
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:43.160
stuff. I mean, I you
know, I when people first suggested to

402
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:54.319
me that the FBI might have taken
uncorroborated opposition research and basically thrown a caption

403
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:59.640
on it and brought it to the
FISA Court to get surveillance warrants, I

404
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:01.519
said, you know, you're gonna
you guys are gonna end up looking like

405
00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:06.359
the tinfoil hat crowd at the end
of this, because what we're going to

406
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:10.039
learn is that the FBI did what
the FBI always does, which is it

407
00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:14.920
may have taken some opposition research,
but it scrubbed it for the three or

408
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.880
four things it needed to make probable
cause. It would have done its own

409
00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:21.960
investigation on it, and by the
time it got to the FISA court,

410
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:24.880
it would no longer be a docier. It would be FBI evidence that they

411
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:30.960
had run down, and it turned
out that they did exactly what I said

412
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.199
could never ever happen. And the
reason I said it could never ever happen

413
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:38.719
is this came out of an argument
that we had during the Clinton Justice Department

414
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:44.119
about the thing that became known as
the Wall, where you know, they

415
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:49.920
put in these procedures where the law
enforcement side couldn't cooperate with the intelligence side,

416
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:55.559
and I made the argument in house
at the time that that was an

417
00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:02.519
irresponsibly dangerous policy to have. Bec
was if you had a criminal who was

418
00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:07.800
a rational actor, it would be
much easier, or a rogue agent who

419
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:13.079
was a rational actor, would be
much easier to make up evidence to sustain

420
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:17.400
a criminal case than to make up
a national security angle and go buy FISA

421
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:22.920
because there was so many rungs of
you know, supervision and sign off on

422
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:25.599
PISA that it would it'd be too
easy to get caught. No one would

423
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:30.719
abuse Fieser that way. And what
happened. They ended up doing precisely what

424
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:35.400
I said would never ever happen.
So, yeah, I've been you know,

425
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:37.320
there's a lot of things that have
happened in the last ten years that

426
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:43.880
are not the Justice Department that I
remember, and I'm not trying to be

427
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:47.519
so idealistic about it that nothing bad
ever happened in the Justice Apartment. Yeah,

428
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:51.880
bad things happen. You know,
it's a it's a human institution.

429
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:59.400
But the politicization of it and the
blatancy of the politicization of it. I

430
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:05.199
mean, when you when you have
democratic prosecutors indicting Trump four times, and

431
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:07.800
I'm not here to carry a brief
for Trump. I actually think the moral

432
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:12.880
Lago case is a pretty strong case
and he should get convicted on it.

433
00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:19.800
But you know, these especially,
this is the Biden Justice Department bringing these

434
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:27.559
cases, and it's elected progressives who
happen to hold district attorney's offices in states

435
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:34.039
throughout the country, who are now
incentivized to use their prosecutorial power against their

436
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:37.320
political enemies. I don't really think
they even care how the cases come out.

437
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:44.159
I think situate they don't. They're
not using their power to actually it

438
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:46.320
forced criminal law. I mean,
they got a lot of free time.

439
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:53.119
These DA's not putting, you know, shoplifters behind ours, right, what

440
00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:57.920
are you gonna do? All the
office supplies, computers and stuff you have

441
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.639
to do you have to prosecute somebody? Is civilization distegrates? You really want

442
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:05.599
to be with Rob Long, He'll
find a way to get a laugh out

443
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:10.480
of every catastrophe. I got a
question, though, a two questions.

444
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:19.920
Really. One is just a just
a strategy question. Is it possible that

445
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:22.119
a few months from now, maybe
six months, maybe a year from now,

446
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:24.079
that you will be saying, you
know, the best thing that happened

447
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:31.840
to Joe Biden is that Hunter Biden
was indicted and maybe convicted on that gun

448
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:40.480
charge. Yeah. So here's here's
my problem by I guess you guess,

449
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:45.639
well, but it's being that you're
skeptical of my theory. Well, but

450
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.679
I'm skeptical, not as as a
as a political analyst or a lawyer,

451
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:55.800
no as a human being. What
I try to wrestle with is if this

452
00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:00.920
warm one of one of my sons, that this would never happen, I

453
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:07.400
would use if I had the power
of pardon, I would never allow one

454
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.719
of my sons to be put through
this ringer. Now. It would be

455
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:15.320
a gross abuse of power, and
the only honorable thing after doing that would

456
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:22.400
be to resign and step aside.
But I just you know what the best

457
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:29.199
thing for Joe Biden politically, I
don't you know the fact that he's allowing

458
00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:34.159
his son, at least to this
point to be indicted so that they can

459
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.199
run around and beat their chests and
say, see, we prosecuted the president's

460
00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.920
son without fear or favor. I
don't think they can actually make that argument

461
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:50.320
credibly because the stuff that really matters, which is the foreign corruption stuff,

462
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:54.960
the millions of dollars that came into
the family coffers that has gone unaddressed,

463
00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:00.320
and the prosecutor they assigned to it, to my mind, willfully sabbage todge

464
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:01.800
the case. So I don't think
they're going to be able to make a

465
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:07.800
very convincing argument that Biden, you
know, let the Justice Department run independently

466
00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:13.480
and they just prosecuted his son like
he was every like any other defendant,

467
00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:15.519
because it's obviously not true. Yeah, But I guess what I mean is

468
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:21.760
that here's my theory that he's going
to get indicted for something, right,

469
00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:27.840
and so stonewalling and having Hunter Biden
walked free is is just a bad look,

470
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:32.000
right, because there's just so much
stuff on him. In the same

471
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:36.920
way that I kind of think I
could be wrong that the impeaching. Impeaching

472
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:39.280
Joe Biden kind of helps him in
a way, right, because the whole

473
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:45.400
argument is you're singling out one family
and one guy, and you're making it

474
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:51.039
trying to like all these liberals are
attacking Trump and now the conservatives are attacking

475
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:55.440
Biden. It feels to me like
the bigger mess helps the incumbent. Is

476
00:39:55.480 --> 00:40:00.920
that, Yeah, Well, I
think I think you're you're right on You're

477
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:06.320
right to this extent. When Peter
before was alluding to the Nixon impeachment and

478
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:10.239
how shocking it was at that point
in time, it was shocking, right,

479
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:16.760
and therefore the fact that Nixon was
in the crosshairs was very bad for

480
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:22.320
him, right, if we flash
forward, I think the thing we can

481
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:25.840
say about the impeachments we've seen,
I want to put the January sixth impeachment

482
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:30.239
in a different category because it's so
sue generous coming up, you know,

483
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:35.599
when Trump was virtually out of office, so it's hard to make an assessment

484
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:38.039
of how that helped or hurt him. I think ultimately we'll be able to

485
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:42.480
make that assessment is going to hurt
him, But we'll see how that plays

486
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:46.159
out. But I think it helped
Clinton to be impeached, and it didn't

487
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:51.039
hurt Trump at all to be impeached
over Ukraine. In fact, the Ukraine

488
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:55.800
was such a nothing burger that the
Democrats didn't even run on it in twenty

489
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.480
twenty. They barely mentioned it.
So I think there's a lot. There's

490
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:07.280
a lot to be said for the
idea that there's a certain sympathy factor that

491
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:10.719
that well maybe it's tribal, I
don't know, but but there's a certain

492
00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:16.920
rally around our guy effect that that
happens here regardless of emeritus. Didn't give

493
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:22.119
an answer though, Hey, mister
President, how come your son and the

494
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:24.519
laptop and all of your son seems
to getting away scot free? And then

495
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:30.000
Mr President says, you're kidding me. He's on trial right now for a

496
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:32.760
gun charge that could put him in
prison for you know, ten years,

497
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:36.800
whatever is thirty years some some giant
number. I don't think he's getting on

498
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:39.440
scott free. Okay, let's you
know, Hey, how come the you

499
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:43.280
know, you went after Trump for
all this stuff and nobody went after Biden.

500
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:45.039
Are you kidding me? There's a
house in quiry right, impeachment and

501
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:50.599
quarry open right now. I mean
in a way, this is kind of

502
00:41:50.599 --> 00:41:53.639
the cesspool that we're in right where
we don't ever we don't talk about things

503
00:41:53.679 --> 00:42:00.559
like trade with you know, Asia
and American defense or the border. We

504
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:05.280
talk about is I'm going to hire
a guide to put you behind bars,

505
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:09.000
just like Olivia. I think that's
all right. And he's got the media

506
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:14.280
at his the wind that is back, which a Republican wouldn't. So those

507
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:19.639
as you laid them out. Because
I've been watching this stuff closely for a

508
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.599
few years, I wasn't impressed by
the arguments, but I think most people

509
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:24.360
will be. You know, most
people are not going to be as informed

510
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:29.719
about this stuff as we are.
They're not going to know all the things

511
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:35.360
that haven't been prosecuted and have been
left on the table. So the counter

512
00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:39.000
argument seems to me, I'm just
going to mention this, and I may

513
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:43.800
be wrong, and you can.
Then I'd like to ask a bigger question

514
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:46.440
of Andy, and I know Rob
is going to push back on the bigger

515
00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:52.440
question anyway. The counter argument me
seems to be that for an ordinary voter,

516
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:58.840
say, well, Trump's a crook
and Biden used to be able to

517
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:01.840
I like Biden because at least he
seemed like a decent person. Now he's

518
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:07.559
a crook too. Yeah. In
other words, it removes one of the

519
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:12.639
Biden's one of the strongest points in
Biden's favor, which was that he was

520
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:19.039
he was at least a decent person, and Biden will Biden risks. Biden

521
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.679
not risks. He's going to lose
that anyway. I may be wrong about

522
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:24.079
that, but that seems to me
that if you've got two dirty candidates,

523
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:31.159
what's the choice. So here's the
larger question, the case for Trump,

524
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:40.599
for supporting Trump, and I want
to note that first time around, when

525
00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:46.840
seventeen candidates were running in six years
ago, I guess it was now six

526
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:51.840
and a half years ago, Donald
Trump was my seventeenth choice. I have

527
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:54.960
hoped and hoped and hoped that Ron
De Santis would catch fire and replace Trump.

528
00:43:55.079 --> 00:43:59.559
In other words, I'm still a
Republican, I'm still a conservative,

529
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:05.320
and I'm still casting about for alternatives
to Trump. However, the case for

530
00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:10.480
Trump is coming into focus, and
the case runs as follows. He is

531
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:17.079
a loudmouth and a braggart. He
showed very bad judgment and worse on January

532
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:29.079
sixth, But he even he at
his worst engaged in no assault on our

533
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:37.639
institutions that even begins to equal the
corruption that is taking that the Democrats are

534
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:45.880
affecting now, when the United States
Department of Justice is obviously corrupt, When

535
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:52.000
a prosecutor two bit prosecutor in New
York with his case in Atlanta, every

536
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:59.079
case except the Mara Lego case are
obviously political, how dare they? They

537
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:06.880
are moving us in this great country
into Banana Republic territory. Now the press,

538
00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:10.400
the press has been totally corrupted.
The press is saying there's no evidence

539
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:15.559
that Biden. There's better evidence against
Joe Biden today than there ever was in

540
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:22.559
the Russian Dosier case, the corruption
of the all of this corruption, and

541
00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:28.000
I as an ordinary, and in
the Marilago case, they've got him.

542
00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:32.800
Okay, he broke the law by
sticking a pile of documents in his bathtub.

543
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:40.199
But here's what Hillary Clinton did.
She put classified material on a private

544
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:46.599
server. Every person I've talked to
who knows anything about intelligence takes it for

545
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:54.280
granted that the Chinese, the Russians, and probably the Israelis all broke into

546
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:59.880
all hacked that server, and all
that information went to foreign intelligence. Don

547
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:05.440
Trump stuck stuff in a bathtub.
There's no evidence at all that any intel

548
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:10.440
that he misused ended up in foreign
hands. And furthermore, the Justice Department

549
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:15.159
didn't need to the raid. They
didn't need to do that. I grant

550
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:20.400
that it was illegal. They've got
a case, but as a small board

551
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:24.239
case by comparison with the corruption that
has been taking place in the Democratic side,

552
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:31.000
and in particular by comparison with Hillary
Clinton. So as an ordinary voter,

553
00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:37.039
what can I do to push to
say this is outrageous? I'd like

554
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.880
to, I'd like to be able
to support Ron de Santis, but it's

555
00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:43.559
not doesn't seem to be working.
I still have hopes for Nicky Halley,

556
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:50.159
but it may come down to Donald
Trump, and he is as much as

557
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:53.400
he has sinned, he is still
more sinned against than sinning. That's the

558
00:46:53.440 --> 00:47:00.239
case, Andy Well, I mean, it's the case he'll make, and

559
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:08.840
it's it's the best case for him. It doesn't resonate with me, just

560
00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:13.840
because I've already made up my mind
that you know, I thought he should

561
00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:22.400
have been convicted in the impeachment trial
and disqualified the second impeachment trial. Right,

562
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:24.519
Yeah, But I don't know how
you support somebody who you say should

563
00:47:24.559 --> 00:47:30.519
have been disqualified from ever running for
president again. And I guess, just

564
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:35.960
to be hardheaded about this, Peter
Ye, I've taken the position Trump can't

565
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:42.840
win, and I even though I
see what Biden's problems are, I think

566
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:47.559
this is a dynamic situation where they're
actually the Democrats are getting exactly what they

567
00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:57.679
want, which is he looks like
he could win now they've done. That's

568
00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:00.760
true. Just to be clear,
Mitt Romney was of Obama. True.

569
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:07.360
True. And the plan here for
the Democrats has always been use the indictments

570
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:14.199
to rile up the base so that
they cling to Trump. And then when

571
00:48:14.199 --> 00:48:20.119
the audience during the election is not
the Republican primary electorate but the general electorate,

572
00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:23.159
that's when you have the trials and
the hearings and all the really bad

573
00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:30.159
stuff comes out and they dump stuff
on him like no one's ever seen before.

574
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:36.039
And the backdrop for that is he
won by a miracle in twenty sixteen

575
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:39.159
in a two person race with forty
six percent of the vote. He's never

576
00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:45.320
gonna sniff forty six again as the
incumbent. He couldn't get forty seven in

577
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:52.719
twenty twenty. I'd be stunned if
he gets forty four. I think was

578
00:48:52.760 --> 00:48:57.400
elected three. Well, but they
had to be. They had to be

579
00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:00.400
Pero, I mean they had You're
right, if you if you get a

580
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:06.079
third incredible third party threat, you're
right, all bets are off. But

581
00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:09.119
if it's if it's a Trump Biden
election, which is what you're hypothetical,

582
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:12.840
is, yes, that's just don't
see how we can win. I don't

583
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:15.880
see how we can win. Yeah, I don't think the Republicans are making

584
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:21.559
an effective case that he can't win
because they're tiptoeing around it. The only

585
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:24.519
one who's not tiptoeing around it is
Christie, and Christie can't win. So

586
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:30.360
I don't want to say about that, you know. So how do we

587
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:37.159
conduct our lives as we watch this? I mean I remember, I remember

588
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:44.679
the Dole campaign and it was just
this slow motion catastrophe. It was it

589
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:49.880
felt to me like watching a redwood
fall and slow motion. Everybody knew this.

590
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:53.199
So how do we conduct our lives
as journalists, as citizens in this

591
00:49:53.199 --> 00:50:00.480
this this weird Biden's going to be
their nominee. Trump It's going to be

592
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:06.800
our nominee. It looks unavoidable.
Nobody wants this to happen. How do

593
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:12.039
we conduct our lives as journalists and
human beings and Americans in this weird circumstance.

594
00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:17.440
You know, Judge Bork used to
tell this story about I wonder if

595
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:24.559
he's in a faculty lounge but watching
the watching the the Clarence Thomas Anita Hill

596
00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:34.039
hearings, and Irving Crystal is there
and is about to hand him a martini,

597
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:37.800
and he says, how's it going, And Bork says to him,

598
00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:43.679
it's the end of civilization, And
Crystal hands on the martini and says,

599
00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:46.559
well, it'll take a long time
and it's still possible to live. Well,

600
00:50:50.039 --> 00:50:54.400
I think I think that's the answer. Unfortunately, you know, I

601
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:59.840
think there's a lot of ruin in
the system. Here's on a serious note,

602
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:04.840
what has always bothered me about the
January sixth commentary, particularly from Democrats,

603
00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:07.880
and this whole narrative about how our
constitution was hanged by a thread and

604
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:14.280
our democracy was almost the thing.
The hero of the day on January sixth

605
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:17.599
is the Constitution. It was never
in any doubt, it was never in

606
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:22.679
any danger. There was never any
doubt that Biden was going to be Yeah,

607
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:25.480
that's I agree, and That's what
always one of my problems with the

608
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:30.360
January sixth. You know, the
overreaction is, you know, we have

609
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:32.000
a constitution. It's not captured the
flag. It's not like, well,

610
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:35.760
if you can get to that gabble, then that person gets in the president.

611
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:40.639
I what I found dismaying about January
six actually really wasn't Trump. I

612
00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:45.679
mean, I've always I felt that
Trump was emotionally and mentally unstable and therefore

613
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:50.159
unfit to be president. I thought
this in twenty sixteen, and I think

614
00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:53.639
I am right in that. What
was surprising to me is that ordinary traditional

615
00:51:53.719 --> 00:52:00.559
conservative intellectuals came up with some utterly, utterly the idiotic scheme by which the

616
00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:07.280
vice president United States could do something
that day. Where if Vice President Al

617
00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:10.920
Gore had done that in two thousand
and one, or if Kamala Harris does

618
00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:15.159
it in two twenty twenty five,
they will their heads will explode. Right.

619
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:21.480
So, you know, if if
Vice President Kamala Harris decides that she

620
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:24.800
kind of on in retrospect after reading
the Claremont Review, she kind of agrees

621
00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:30.159
with their position about what the vice
president can do, what are they going

622
00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:32.679
to do now? So a lot
of this is just just everybody took a

623
00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:37.920
stupid pill at some point. I
date that to the stupid pill to be

624
00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:43.880
right around two thousand and four,
when the wheels came off the bus and

625
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:50.320
people decided that George W. Bush, though wrong about the Iraq invasion,

626
00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:58.360
utterly wrong, was somehow evil and
destroying, you know, concentrating the Constitution,

627
00:52:58.639 --> 00:53:01.559
and almost anything we did about him
to him was justified. I mean,

628
00:53:01.599 --> 00:53:06.440
they get it that with Reagan too, So you know, there was

629
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:08.400
only one side of the bust.
The wheels came off, and then now

630
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:12.320
the wheels come off on the other
side to the Republicans of the same thing.

631
00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:15.320
I guess here's my sort of larger
I mean, I don't want to

632
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:21.760
be existential about it, because I
is it possible that these things go in

633
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:27.320
waves? And if you look in
American history, you see lots of lots

634
00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:30.639
of dirt and dirty politics and name
calling, and you see a lot of

635
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:37.119
chaos. Right, it wasn't the
stately progression of bearded gentleman who had been

636
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:42.599
educated in the Judaea Christian Western tradition
and then all of a sudden it,

637
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:47.320
you know, it all went nuts
around whatever. Isn't it possible that people,

638
00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:51.480
if the people decide they don't want
to take this anymore and they don't

639
00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:58.519
want the the critonization of American society
and politics to go forward, or isn't

640
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.840
it possible that just people will get
tired of this, or the people involved

641
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:05.719
will get tired of this, or
am I just fantasizing. Well, I

642
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:13.239
think it's possible. But I do
think that making it a new routine or

643
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:20.239
a new norm that the incumbent side
uses the criminal justice system against the other

644
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:27.000
side changes the dynamic. It's a
it's a it's an evolution or a devolution

645
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:30.679
of the process that you've been talking
about. And I don't if that becomes

646
00:54:30.679 --> 00:54:34.599
a norm, I don't know what's
left of the country. And I don't

647
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:37.960
I don't need to. I don't
want to sound hysterical, but I really

648
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:44.639
think that if you don't have a
perception based on a reality that the laws

649
00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:49.880
are even handedly enforced, and I
fear for what happens to us, Well,

650
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:52.559
I guess I guess what I'm asking
to use this? Should we just

651
00:54:52.760 --> 00:54:59.480
say, you know what we're going
to bring back dueling? I'm almost half

652
00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:04.159
serious, right, because that is
house. You know, we're almost exactly

653
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:07.800
two hundred years ago, that seemed
to be how I mean, how many

654
00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:15.559
presidents were involved directly in a duel. I mean Andrew Jackson bullet in his

655
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:17.719
body all his life from a duel. Yeah, he killed me. He

656
00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:21.880
waited for the other man to fire, took the bullet, and then killed

657
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:29.039
him. Right, that's on.
But that was also considered kind of ungentlemanly

658
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:31.320
at that. Yes, yeah,
but I don't know who would win at

659
00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:35.679
the duel. I mean, I
would love to see the duel. Well,

660
00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:37.599
while Andy, while Andy is thinking
about the duel, I have a

661
00:55:38.000 --> 00:55:43.199
slightly subversive but on on the other
hand, kind of a and here's what's

662
00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:46.320
happening here. I see kids at
stand for the Bright Kids take a look

663
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:51.480
at politics and say I want nothing
to do with that. I'm going into

664
00:55:51.519 --> 00:55:55.280
business. This could be good for
the economy. Rob Well, yes,

665
00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:58.920
I mean it could be. I
mean there, I mean it is also

666
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:04.159
possible that we we we took the
certainly the chief executive in this country,

667
00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:08.519
and we haven't made it an imperial
position. Over time where they play Hill

668
00:56:08.599 --> 00:56:12.480
to the chi forever. He walks, you know, down the street,

669
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:19.320
and there's a motorcade and and people
in government do seem to be grandees the

670
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:22.639
way they wouldn't have been before.
I don't know this for a fact,

671
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:25.639
because I couldn't get a glimpse of
her. But I walked out of my

672
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:31.519
house Monday, and suddenly there was
a There were like black SUVs on the

673
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:36.679
street, and there were little flashing
lights and they closed the street off.

674
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:38.800
And then there's somebody at one of
the houses there, and he stood up.

675
00:56:38.840 --> 00:56:43.920
He stood out and as some old
lady who looked like Nancy Pelosi.

676
00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:47.000
I don't know if it's Nancy Pelosi, but it could have been. And

677
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:50.400
she goes up and she greets this
person, and it's a kind of a

678
00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:52.599
president of the new schools across the
street. So I don't know who's I

679
00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:54.519
don't know. This is the kind
of fancy neighborhood peopleho in these houses,

680
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:59.280
right, And it looked and I
thought, of course, the former Speaker

681
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:04.360
of the House gets a motorcade.
Maybe it's time for everybody to be taking

682
00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:06.119
down a pig andy, what do
you think, I know, you gotta

683
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:17.800
run. I think I'm just too
I'm too worried about the point of the

684
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:22.000
exploitation of law enforcement. And maybe
it's because I'm too close to it.

685
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:32.280
I just I if you don't have
a system where people think that, you

686
00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:36.199
know, you get a fair shake
out of the justice system, and where

687
00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:40.639
it becomes a regular thing where the
attorney general is expected to exploit the power,

688
00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:50.159
you know, the administrations expected to
use the law enforcement and intelligence apparatus

689
00:57:50.199 --> 00:57:55.840
against the other side. We're done. We're just ruined. On that happy

690
00:57:55.880 --> 00:58:00.920
note. Well, Andy, thank
you for joining us. Please can you

691
00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:04.440
come back later and give us some
good news. Got to work on that,

692
00:58:05.119 --> 00:58:09.880
work on your work on my dueling
skills, shring back dueling. That's

693
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:13.519
what I say. All right,
guys, thanks Andy, Andy, take

694
00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:15.920
care. I know we got We're
gonna we have plenty to talk about,

695
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:19.079
Peter, But before we do,
I want to talk a little bit about

696
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:23.599
Shopify. Shopify's already taking the cash
register online, helping millions sell billions around

697
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the world. But did you know, Peter, that Shopify can do the

698
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700
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next level today shopify dot com slash
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Ricochet podcast and since we started talking
about capitalism and entrepreneurship. Shopify is actually

716
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one of those things that has made
it easier to get into that business.

717
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So there's it's your job to bring
us out on it. I know,

718
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:04.599
on a happy note, I don't. I don't have that happy except except

719
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:07.119
I think that I'm right. I
think these things tend to burn themselves out.

720
01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:08.480
I think that we go through a
little crazy every down. Then it's

721
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:13.639
Americans to say American style, and
that we people decide, they turn.

722
01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:19.360
And the great thing about the public
turning is it turns faster than anybody at

723
01:00:19.400 --> 01:00:25.199
the top can predict. Before you
know it, you're shouting to empty theaters.

724
01:00:27.239 --> 01:00:30.320
You remember, in American history it
was a lot of talk about Father

725
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:34.559
Coughlin. Father Coughlin, Yes,
yes, yes, the firebrand priest on

726
01:00:34.599 --> 01:00:37.920
the radio was considered an early kind
of demagogue and very dangerous Peter. He's

727
01:00:38.039 --> 01:00:45.119
very dangerous radio personality, and he
was very conservative. I note that his

728
01:00:45.920 --> 01:00:54.480
most biggest years, I think most
popular years coincided with the New Deal and

729
01:00:54.519 --> 01:01:00.400
the socialization of a huge portion of
American economy. I'm not sure Father offline

730
01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:05.639
had any of the power people ascribed
to him. That's a contrarian view that

731
01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:07.599
you can take issue with at a
later date, because we got a wrap.

732
01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:12.920
If you're if you've enjoyed this podcast, it comes to you from ricochet

733
01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:15.599
dot com. Not only do we
offer you terrific discounts on all of our

734
01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:20.719
great advertisers, we also have a
terrific site. Please go ricochet dot com.

735
01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:22.440
Please join. The reason we want
you to join and pay a little

736
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:25.760
bit of money and be honest with
you is because if people need to have

737
01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:30.039
skin in the game to keep the
conversation polite, civil and interesting. We

738
01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:34.480
also meet up regularly in person.
There's a chattanook A, Tennessee meet up

739
01:01:34.519 --> 01:01:37.559
on January fourteen, twenty twenty four, and of course we're letting you know

740
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:40.320
early on April eight in Texas.
Somewhere in Texas. I know that doesn't

741
01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:45.280
really narrow it down, but somewhere
in Texas in twenty twenty four, the

742
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:50.519
American Eclipse is going to be viewed
by Ricochet members and that's going to be

743
01:01:50.599 --> 01:01:53.519
a fun thing. More meetups are
going to be scheduled, More meetups will

744
01:01:53.519 --> 01:01:57.199
be done. If you want to
go to a meetup and one of these

745
01:01:57.199 --> 01:02:00.039
doesn't work for you, join Ricochet. Just put up a note saying how

746
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:06.159
about meet up here and here and
when, and people will show up because

747
01:02:06.199 --> 01:02:12.760
Ricochet members show up. This podcast
is brought to you by Shopify and zbiotics.

748
01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:15.119
Support them, and that will support
us. And take a minute to

749
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:19.239
leave a review on Apple podcast.
I know it's everyone always says this,

750
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:22.840
it actually really does matter. So
if you do it, it helps us

751
01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:25.440
bump up and then every important algorithm. Peter, this has been a lot

752
01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:30.760
of fun. It has been fun. I don't quite know why because here

753
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:36.079
we are watching everything slide south,
so just sleep, but it has been

754
01:02:36.079 --> 01:02:39.239
fun. I feel watching one of
those YouTube videos of some title waves sweeping

755
01:02:39.239 --> 01:02:44.039
over some island in the Pacific.
But still right still, as long as

756
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:49.599
we're watching from a distance and swirling
olives and our martinis. What could be?

757
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:52.280
But why why wouldn't it be fun? Things have a way of working

758
01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:59.840
out. That's my that's my lame
optimism. Everything kind of get sorted out.

759
01:03:00.039 --> 01:03:04.599
And the benefit of the of a
Yale education. Next week, Rob

760
01:03:04.760 --> 01:03:10.519
next week, take care Ricochet Join
the conversation.