WEBVTT

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All right, everybody, So tonight
we have a very special recording for all

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of you. This will be a
Wrestle Magic production. However, we will

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not have the Silver Fox, Rockey
Tea or the Gardner Michael Gross here tonight.

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This will be special because it will
be produced specifically by yours truly man.

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It's Maverick, along with a really
good friend of mine, King Scully,

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King Skeully. How are you,
man? I'm very good, thank

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you, and yourself dooming? All
right? Man? So how long have

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you been watching wrestling? Man?
Let's give a crowd a little bit of

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a background on you, bud,
since I was very young. I remember

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watching it when I was like five
years old, at least for odd Jeers.

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All right, all right, so
you'll live out here in the UK

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as well. I think we're a
couple hours apart from each other, correct,

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Yep, that's it. Yeah.
So we've talked a little bit back

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and forth. We've had some interesting
conversations and we decided what if we had

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our own series, just a little
bit of something on the side that we

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could come up with and talk about. We'd like to potentially get some others

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involved as well, but we wanted
to talk more about one of the topics

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that we brought up between each other, and we want to talk about some

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rivalries, and tonight this will be
the start of that. We want to

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talk about one of the more famous
ones that's been in the recent history.

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We figure, we take, well, it's kind of easier, we don't

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have to do too much research on
it, So tonight we're going to talk

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about John Cena and Randy Horton's rivalry
over the years. It's been an interesting

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one that it feels like from beginning
to end, it was like, no

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matter what storylines they were in,
you could throw each other into pretty much

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at each other. It didn't matter
what was going on. It could have

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been John's seeing that Boogeyman, could
have been Randy Orton an undertaker. Somehow

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each other would end up in each
other's storylines and they'd end up on another

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rivalry and having another few great matches. Scolly, What do you remember probably

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most about their rivalry throughout the time? Well, I first remember obviously when

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they both came on the scene and
wow into the WW anyway, and obviously

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they both came from the same So
was it OVW is it? I believe

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so it was something like that.
I believe they were both under Vince's chosen

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Ones or something like that, and
they both were pretty young at the time,

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but they were I think the same
class. And I'm not sure if

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Randy Orton started off in evolution or
how all that came up. That was

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just barely before my time, but
when I really start watching, so you

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may be more knowledgeable on that at
the moment. Yeah, So I remember

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when Orton came he was doing like
he had little promos where I think he

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had his arm in a casket for
quite a while, and he used to

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like he used to come on the
screen to be like breaking news or something

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like that, and it'll be him
and he'll be like, oh, my

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arm's getting better, you will see
me soon and all that sort of thing.

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But he came across all cocky and
arrogant, and then yeah, and

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then obviously John Cena on the other
hand, I remember he came out with

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the ruthless subgression sort of thing.
I remember hearing and seeing videos of that

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him coming out. I believe it
was against Kurt Angle because he was going

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on a rampage of just facing different
young stars that were trying to come out

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and make a name for themselves,
and he would put them down pretty quick.

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I remember hearing him say ruthless aggression
the first time, but I continue

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on, man, please, Yeah, Yeah, he came out and he

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obviously that was Vince's thing, was
it the ruthless aggression ever, so to

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speak? And yeah, he came
out and was like challenge Kurt Angle basically

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to a match, and yeah,
and that's the start of it. Obviously

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I wasn't a fan of him to
begin with, but I did like when

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he changed into his little phogonomics doctor
forgonomics gimmick. I liked him then,

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and then obviously after that he went
a bit boring and stay off for years

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and years and years. But hey, yeah, right, I hear that.

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Yeah, I remember a little bit
about h in the beginning. I

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heard from a lot of people.
He just wasn't liked in the beginning.

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He was kind of even in the
beginning, was a very stale character in

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the ring. I guess he was
not very good and very different from the

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Sena that you would see today.
And it's kind of interesting as well about

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just the difference between the two characters. Were talking about Sena and Orton seemed

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like one eventually evolved into the ultimate
heel. Like it seemed like Orton was

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the spit on puppies kind of villain
for the longest time. I remember seeing

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he had a few with Jeff Hardy
and in the backstage segment he ran up

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and gave a punt kick to Matt
Hardy and claiming it was right where his

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appendix used to be. As Matt
Hardy just had an operation done. It

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just seemed like he was so evil
no matter what, all the time.

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Then you have John Cena, where
he's kind of the total opposite even as

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a person. Apparently he holds the
world record for the most Make a Wish

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Foundation wishes granted. And seeing as
these two were just total opposites, it's

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like matchmaking complete for almost any storyline
or anything, because you can just throw

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them together and it's okay, you've
got the hero, You've got the ultimate

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villain. It just kind of worked
every time. What do you think then,

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yeah, Like, in all fairness, Randy Orton is one of my

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favorites. Obviously, me personally,
I'm a heel guy. I like the

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heels. I don't know why,
but I'm not a villain. Well,

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I guess maybe I am. I'm
an Aston Villa fan and it names the

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villain, so I guess I am
a villain. So I like the villains

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in the wrestling world. And yeah, when he came through, and he

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was when he joined Evolution, Yeah, I loved the Evolution. They were

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classed and it went long, and
he quickly became the Intercontinental Champion. Absolutely.

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I don't remember too much from that
era, but I do remember.

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I believe it was starting from sometime
around two thousand and six, two thousand

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and seven when senor Orton started to
have a rivalries against each other, and

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they had matches up til I believe
around twenty seventeen. So this rivalry went

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for over ten years, not necessarily
always in the same storyline with each other,

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but still having matches, still kind
of having grumblings with each other,

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and you know, it's always been
interesting. They've always been able to work

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well together. Do you have any
memorable matches that you remember from between those

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two I think if my memory says
to me, wow, I think they

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literally had every stipulation you could have
in a match. It was very personal,

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was very personal, like a member
when Van de Orton attacked John Cena's

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dad, was it, I believe
so, I think so, yeah,

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I think he putting it in.
And then another time a while later,

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well, it wasn't that long after
that. John Ceene actually held Van Dalton

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so his dad could give him one
back, which was quite amusing, right

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right. Yeah. So something that
I remember very well growing up was I

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didn't get to see it because growing
up when I did, a family never

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wanted to buy pay per views for
wrestling, which you know, not really

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a big deal. I always heard
about the results later, but I remember

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hearing the result that I guess,
uh, Triple H, John Cena,

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and Randy Orton had a match,
all three of them, and then Triple

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AH and John Cena both had Orton
in a submission hold. The rep didn't

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know what to do, so he
just called Orton the winner. I remember

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hearing about that, and built some
nice heat for him as well. It

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just continued on with the film persona
that Randy Orton has put on, So

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just little things like that they really
did add some fuel to the fire to

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keep Orton's heel persona going. No
matter what he could still brag about,

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it still seem as arrogant as ever
on the next raw after that's something that

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I remember very well. What other
moments do you remember about him? Then?

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There was there lots of moment So, like you said, it starts.

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I think they had the first match
in two thousand and five or whatever

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it was, but they're actually the
beginning of the prop of rivalry rather than

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just a match like anyone can have. Really was July twenty third, two

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thousand and seven on war or unattacked
John Cen, who's the w W champion

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on the night, and then the
coach announced Orton as the new number one

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contender for the title, and then
they faced it. The first match was

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at SummerSlam and Sena won the match, but the next night on Raw during

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seniors match with Booker, t or
An attacked Sena again, causing a disqualification,

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and that's when he attacked seen as
Dad, who was ringside punk Punk,

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kicking him and seriously injuring him.
I mean, the punk kick was

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one of my favorite finishers. I
don't know why. I just when he

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did it tour them at Man's and
stuff like that, I just thought it

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was class. But yeah, I
think the next one unforgiven in September Seena.

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I think he disqualified himself actually because
he he just aggressively attacked Orton during

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and after the match, so he
literally just went crazy and he did his

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little signature submission move, the stfe
and then that when that's when he why

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he had him in that hole.
That's when he let his dad give Orton

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what he deserved, basically give him
what he gave to him to putt in

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the head. But it was quite
funny when you watch it. It's not

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it's not exactly the best, but
he was he were the wrestler. Obviously,

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he's just John Cena's dad, right
right, And like you were saying

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about Orton using the punt, that
was such a lethal looking maneuver, and

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I guess it's fair that they banned
it because it is a lethal move as

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it is. I mean, they
did bring it back. I think that

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was what two years ago when Randy
Orton and Edge had the quote unquote greatest

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wrestling match ever. And then I
think Orton and Edge they were going back

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and forth using each other's past moves
and everything, and then Orton looked like

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he was panicking, didn't know what
to do to finally end the match,

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he runs up and he gives Edge
the punt again. I remember I marked

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out in my room. I was
texting the gardener the whole time, just

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going nuts over the whole situation.
But yeah, I definitely remember that.

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I also remember Legacy being formed,
and I kind of liked the idea that

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WWE was going with at the time, pulling Cody Rhodes as well as Ted

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d Biassi Junior, trying to create
a faction just out of a second generation

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Superstars, because they already had one
who was going to make a name for

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himself no matter what out of Brandy
Orton. Randy Orton was absolutely at the

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top. He's going to be Hall
of Fame already at that point, let

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alone this point, and then deciding
to bring in those two, it kind

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of made sense. Debiyassi was kind
of mid in my opinion, he was

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never great, and he gave Orton
some henchman. Cody Rhodes at the time,

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I don't remember all that much about
him, besides, he had the

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pretty boy gimmick, and then eventually
his character evolved into him having the mask

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that he would wear and he would
use it illegally quote unquote, I guess

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I mean, he had to wear
it in the ring no matter what,

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So I'm not sure if it's really
illegal at that point ahead, but somebody

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while wearing it, you know,
it feels like a gray area. What

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do you remember about Legacy, Man, Yeah, I love Legacy because it

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was like three young superstars and they've
put them together, like you said,

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second generation their fathers or wrestlers.
And yeah, yeah, Dashing Cody Roads

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weren't it his name? And yeah
I liked I liked him as Dashing Cody

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Roads to be honest, and yeah, he did have the little mask and

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he did used to I think from
a bit like what Trish Stratus done most

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recently, where they get the little
nose injuries, so they wear a mask

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to protect their face because they don't
want it to get wrecked anymore. But

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then they use it to their advantage, which as a heel, you can't

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really blame them, can you really? But yeah, I really liked leg

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I say, when you think about
Randy Ortan, obviously you know he's got

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his two theme songs. The one
he doesn't like the Hey, nothing you

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can say doesn't like that one because
of the lyrics, But I really like

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that one. And that when he
that was when he was in Evolution,

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and then when he was in Legacy
obviously, and then he had his voices,

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one with the one he did actually
like, and then the Legacy theme

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song and the Evolution theme song.
They were class theme songs, to be

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fair. So he's actually one of
those wrestlers who's had a lot of good

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theme songs, a lot of good
storylines, and he's been in some good

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state factions. But yeah, Legacy
Young Upcoming trio. I love that they

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used to just jump people, and
obviously he knew Autumn was the leader,

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and Autum got his little henchmen,
his little bodies to do his dirty work,

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and then he would join in.
And I just boy was really good.

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Oh absolutely, And I remember I
believe it was SmackDown Versus Raw twenty

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eleven, the last SmackDown Versus Raw
to be made. I remember that they

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even included Legacy into the video game
story mode. They were called a Roads

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to WrestleMania back then, was the
story mode for the games, and it

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was like you choose one of five
wrestlers to go through their little story thing.

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And I remember John Cena's it was
like, of course it was going

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to be against Orton once again.
Back to the rivalrything. MVP was involved

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with it, Legacy in total was
involved, and I just remember even in

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the video game, they captured the
character really well of Randy Orton because it

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had some sort of storyline where eventually
he somehow ends up in a authority position

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and it just goes kind of hay
wire to the point where it's like he

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is in charge of RA I believe, and he has some sort of a

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restraining order on John Cena and it's
like he can't have a match with him,

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even though Sina wants his title back
type of thing. And he's like

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sending other people after him, not
just Legacy, I believe he's sent like

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Vladimir Koslov after him. And his
name was Ezekiel Jackson. There was this

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really buffed dude. I can't completely
remember, but I remember in the game

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even it seemed like Orton's character still
just as evil as ever, it's still

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working out. It was very enjoyable
even to watch back then, and even

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now, Orton's character he's more loved
as a villain. I feel like the

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crowd season they're still gonna pop for
him. I feel like at this point,

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he could burn down the ring and
they're still gonna cheer for him.

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It doesn't matter. What do you
think then? Yeah, I think his

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return is gonna happen anytime soon.
He has been seen at the training facility,

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so he's obviously going to come back
anytime soon. And when he comes

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back, the pop's going to be
massive. And obviously we don't have Riddle

210
00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.359
now, so he doesn't have to
team with him anymore, so we didn't

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have to We don't have to have
Rko Bro anymore. So we'll see where

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he's going to go. He could
be smacked down, he could be raw,

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but he's going to come anytime soon. And there's so many people who's

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meant to be coming back or returning. But when he comes back, he's

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00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:38.799
going to get a huge pop.
I mean, and whether he's a heel

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00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:44.759
or a face, everyone would love
to see him back. Obviously, it's

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been so long since we've seen him
in the ring. Absolutely. So I

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also remember you remember the whole next
of storyline, right, yes? I

219
00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:02.759
do? Yeah, well, I
remember it got to the point where Cina

220
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.519
had to like build up a team
of superstars to help out and go against

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Nexus. I can't remember where Orton's
involvement was. I feel like Nexus had

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some sort of like agreement with him
that like he wouldn't get involved or something.

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Do you remember that. I think
that was roughly I might have sort

224
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of gone off it a bit then
around that time. That was one of

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00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:37.079
those times I don't know if you're
guilty of it as well. Well,

226
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.200
it doesn't mean you're guilty, but
I've done it quite a few times where

227
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:47.519
I've in and like dipped in and
out. If you get on me,

228
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like I might have a little break
from it. And the Nexus I remember

229
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:56.359
seeing him actually like because it had
like Heath Slater and that is that right?

230
00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:06.079
Yes, heaps later made Barrett.
I can't remember what really that.

231
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:11.200
Yeah, but his name was Skip
Sheffield or something, wasn't it I think

232
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something like that? Yeah, And
I remember was also Dan Bryan was also

233
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part of that class, but he
didn't join with them. Yeah, that's

234
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Corac. Do you came through with
the mist and yeah, who was that

235
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other guy, David otund or something? Was it David O'tongua? I remember

236
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now, Yeah, yeah he was
and then he went on that Yeah,

237
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like weird gimmick didn't do it with
the soup thing. Yeah, just he

238
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never went anywhere. I remember he
had something going on with John Cena in

239
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the very beginning. Then he turned
on him and that's what started everything rolling

240
00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:02.079
for Nexus to come out. Uh. I remember Nexus had something going on

241
00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:04.680
where I feel like they talked to
Randy Orton and were asking him to join

242
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.920
Nexus or something. He basically declined
to say he wasn't going to help Sena

243
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:14.880
if I remember correctly, something like
that, but I remember it was like,

244
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of course they had to go that
route. I remember there was also

245
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:23.440
I believe there was at one point
that there was a lumberjack match that was

246
00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:26.480
going to be held. And at
the time, this is when'ra all

247
00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.599
was still doing the Celebrity Special guest
host. So every week Monday Night Raw,

248
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:36.400
Oh it's being hosted by Benny White
this week, or start a slaughter

249
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:38.920
this week. Came in and he
was the host of Monday Nightraan and they

250
00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:45.559
can make matches up. And I
remember there was somebody who created a match

251
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.640
to be a lumberjack match, and
then right before the match started, seeing

252
00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.759
an Orton or in the ring,
the guy who was the host came out

253
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.160
and said, I have something to
say. He pulls open his shirt shows

254
00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:00.319
that he has a Randy Orton shirt
on underneath. And basically none of the

255
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:06.279
Lumberjacks that came out were on a
seen a side at all. I remember

256
00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:10.160
hearing about the match. I don't
remember seeing it, but I remember once

257
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again going on that level of the
heel side of everything, just being against

258
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Seena once again. Things just worked
out perfectly with the rivalry. But you

259
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:26.039
know, it's just kept going and
going, but it never felt horribly stale.

260
00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.440
It could be annoying because you kept
seeing them, but matches most of

261
00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:36.039
the time were relatively quality, and
overall it was just enjoyable. What did

262
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:41.920
you think of it overall? Men, Yeah, rivalries are a good thing

263
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:49.039
to have, Like as long as
you know, they're always gonna have good

264
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:56.559
They got good chemistry. They're both
good on the microphone, John Cene is

265
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gonna get or the little kids screaming
for him, and then you're going to

266
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:08.640
get the adults cheering for Andy Orton
and wanting them to beat up John Cena.

267
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And yeah, I always remember like
when when they fought each other,

268
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the chemistry was really good. They
had good matches. There were solid matches.

269
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There wasn't any like botches really what
I can remember. I could be

270
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:34.079
wrong, but I can't remember any
of that stand out in my mind.

271
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:42.480
And like I said earlier, they
had they pretty much had every stipulation you

272
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:48.400
can have, so they touched every
area. So they had the last man

273
00:23:48.519 --> 00:24:00.920
standing match at no mercy. What
do you remember, like when aort And

274
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:07.079
tied him up and everything like that. I vaguely remember something going on with

275
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.839
that. Was he handcuffed in a
corner or something. I'm drawing a blank

276
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:19.839
a little bit at the moment.
Okay, So so basically he this was

277
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:25.640
on a roar, I think,
ause I don't know, maybe about September

278
00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:30.440
time he tied up seeing her in
the corner of the ring, and he

279
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:36.720
basically forced Seena's dad to face him
in the match, which obviously oughtn't easily

280
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:44.240
won, and that ended the rivalry
prematurely. Becausin has suffered a legit,

281
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:53.400
a legend, sorry, a legend
tour muscle during the match with mister Kennedy,

282
00:24:55.319 --> 00:25:00.200
so that took him out of action
for four months, and then that

283
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:04.279
meant he facated the title and then
Ortum was awarded it at no mercy,

284
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.160
right, right, so we've gone
over a little bit of the past.

285
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:15.039
Let's talk about do you think that
they're going to come after each other in

286
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:19.359
the future, because we know Sina
he's kinda back right now. I haven't

287
00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:25.519
really been watching Wuee. I apologize
everybody, but I've heard that he has

288
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.759
been back. We're expecting Orton to
come back at some point. Do you

289
00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:33.079
think that there's a chance that Orton
will return at some point while Seena is

290
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:38.079
back to respark the rivalry a little
bit. I'm not sure, but if

291
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:48.279
he did, obviously that would at
first he'll get a huge pop for obviously

292
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.480
returning anyway. And then when he
of if he was to come back and

293
00:25:52.519 --> 00:26:00.799
give John Cena RKO and SmackDown or
something like that, obviously people's going to

294
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:07.880
be like shocked or surprised. But
obviously people will still be happy to see

295
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:12.839
him back, no doubt. But
I'm not sure where he's going to go

296
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:18.160
because obviously he's got beef with He's
going to have beef with the Bloodline.

297
00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:22.559
It was them who injured him,
it's them he put him out, So

298
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:26.920
obviously he's going to want to come
back and get revenge. Even though Riddle's

299
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:32.200
no longer their riddle's gone, he'll
still want to get revenge. This is

300
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:36.000
Randy Orton, and so he's not
going to just let it go. They're

301
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:42.960
the one reason in storyline why he's
out, so he's not just going to

302
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:48.200
come back and forget it. So
when he first comes back, I reckon

303
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.880
he'll just be a face. So
I can't see him going to seeing straight

304
00:26:52.920 --> 00:27:00.640
away, And it just depends how
long scene hangs around for. That's fair,

305
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:03.200
That is very fair. Yeah,
I'm not really sure what all is

306
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.440
in Johnson and his contract details at
WWE. At the moment, I'm not

307
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:11.200
really sure how long he's planning to
hang around, But it would be interesting

308
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.279
to see if Orton were to just
comes straight out and come back for him

309
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:19.480
immediately. It would it'd be nice
to see, just for old time's sake.

310
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:23.279
But because I haven't been watching,
I'm not really sure where all the

311
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:27.000
storylines would be tangled, not sure
what seem is doing. Like you said,

312
00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:30.839
Orton has more involvement with the Bloodline
right now, I'm not really sure

313
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:34.799
where blood Line's main steak is,
whether it's raw or SmackDown, But either

314
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:41.200
way, it's also kind of nice
to talk about so Orton took Cody Rhodes

315
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.160
under his wing for you know,
a little while under legacy and everything,

316
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:49.240
and it's kind of nice to see
Cody Roads has kind of come up as

317
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:52.839
well. And I don't mean to
go too far off track or off to

318
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:57.119
the rabbit hole, but you know, he's kind of become somewhat of a

319
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:03.160
fan favorite at this point after starting
AW and everything. So you know,

320
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:04.559
for a bad guy, he's having
a pretty good influence on the business.

321
00:28:04.599 --> 00:28:08.119
I think they both, between Sena
and Orton, really have I feel like

322
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:14.519
Sena has set an example of how
to be like one of the biggest babyfaces

323
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:18.720
at this point, and then you
have Orton, who's probably one of the

324
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.440
biggest influences as a heel let alone
just as part of the business. I

325
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:26.039
feel like he's one of those guys
that almost anybody can really look up to.

326
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:33.039
What do you think then, Yeah, obviously with John Cena, he's

327
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:41.920
he's got the even when I want
him now, even like all the years,

328
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:45.000
I never really liked him, Like
I said, when he was doctor

329
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.680
of economics, when he was a
heel, I liked him. He had

330
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:56.440
somewhat different but then he went stale
because he kept the same personality throughout his

331
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:03.200
career. But in another way that
was a good thing because obviously that was

332
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:11.160
selling merch. He was the face
of the company, and like you said,

333
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:15.200
with the maker wish and all the
children, obviously he had to stay

334
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:22.119
like that. He had to stay
the good guy because it meant it means

335
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.000
meant a lot to like the kids
and stuff like that, and obviously with

336
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:33.640
it being like a PG show and
not like attitude ever like some of us

337
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:40.440
would have had growing up, it
meant like he had to stay on that

338
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:47.039
level, which is fine. Where
Randy Orton he was never like he was

339
00:29:47.079 --> 00:29:51.279
a good good guy, but he
was always a better heel in my opinion,

340
00:29:51.640 --> 00:29:55.799
when he was when he's a face, he's fine, there's nothing wrong

341
00:29:55.839 --> 00:30:00.839
with him at all, but and
you and he would still got a huge

342
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:06.440
pop from the fans. And then
but when he's a heel, I think

343
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:12.039
he's more danger I don't think we've
seen a character as vindictive as Van de

344
00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:17.240
Orton has been. If you get
what met yeah, I hear you,

345
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:22.079
man. If I had to think
about the next closest heel that we really

346
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.559
have at this point, and it's
still a long shot even from this guy,

347
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.119
I'm gonna say, MJF and aew, and that's still like, yeah,

348
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:34.920
that's still miles away. We're not
getting close right now. With how

349
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:41.319
just evil Randy Orton's prime really seemed
throughout his career and just the things that

350
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:45.880
he had done, the way that
he spoke, the cockiness, the arrogance,

351
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:51.359
it just seems so played out beautifully
with everything that he had to do.

352
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.039
Even when there was a point where
he freaked out on a Kobe Kingston

353
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:00.599
because I guess he boughted something in
the ring and Andy Orton really did give

354
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:03.599
it to him for a minute and
you could see he's like yelling stupid,

355
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:08.160
stupid, stupid as he's like kicking
everything. Yeah, you know what I'm

356
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:12.000
talking about. But yeah, we
don't really see moments like that. But

357
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:15.359
either way, it was Randy Orton. It's in the character. It is

358
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:19.640
absolutely fine. God, I can't
imagine if I was a you know,

359
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:25.039
God forbid, I can't imagine being
what a cancer patient is or anything.

360
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:29.519
If my last wish were somehow to
be like Randy Orton ends up walking in

361
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:30.920
as a kid, I would probably
think, God, he's going to kick

362
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:36.240
me in the face. I don't
know, I would be terrified. That's

363
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:41.079
just how his heel persona is so
well played out, and that's why it's

364
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.400
so enjoyable to watch him. Whether
he's winning or losing, you can take

365
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:47.279
it as you know, whether you
like seeing it, whether you like Orton,

366
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.039
it's just enjoyable to watch. And
that's something I feel like he is

367
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:56.000
really put into the business. He's
really given back as well. He really

368
00:31:56.000 --> 00:32:00.759
knows how to listen to Vince McMahon's
orders. Whatever it is, it doesn't

369
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:05.160
matter. He's going to listen and
do exactly what's needed for the company.

370
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:07.880
And that's also very enjoyable for him. He's taken many stars under his wing.

371
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:12.920
He's done so many things, and
uh, you know, I really

372
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.119
even enjoyed his feud with Bray Wyatt
for a little bit. I feel like

373
00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:20.759
it was a little short lived unfortunately
when they let him go the first time,

374
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.240
and uh, you know, God
rest his soul. But yeah,

375
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:30.799
anyways, what other thoughts, yeah
have on just a feud overall? Man,

376
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:34.960
So, Sina was always going to
be that babyface after being doctor thuganomix,

377
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:37.440
which is very entertaining with his raps. If you guys don't know look

378
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:42.960
up some of his He had some
really funny bars throughout that whole era.

379
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:47.480
What do you think, man,
Yeah, Like I've I said it a

380
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:52.319
few times, like with my mates
and stuff, and they always laugh and

381
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:58.920
I'd do it, but like I
try and do a little bit about myself,

382
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:04.799
and I sometimes say that John Cena
think the one he did to brought

383
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.559
Lesno, I don't know if you
remember that. I do not. I'll

384
00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:13.799
be honest. I was a little
bit before my time, man. Okay,

385
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:21.720
So basically he is provoking brought Lesner. So he come out and he

386
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:29.279
obviously doing his little wrapp thing and
he's like, who brought len? Who

387
00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:37.920
come to the pain? God built
me strong forget to give me brains?

388
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:44.039
And then the next bit was something
like you hop around all day like there's

389
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:49.160
potatoes in your crack. That's a
nice tattoo of your mother on your back.

390
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:54.640
And then you got like task going, oh my god, what have

391
00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:00.519
you just done or whatever? And
then yeah, and yeah that I really

392
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:06.839
enjoyed that. And I think he
had like back and forth with like Kishi

393
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:10.800
and one of the most really good
rap battles he had was with Kurt Angle.

394
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:15.840
And to be fair, Kurt Angle
was hilarious. So and he even

395
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:22.880
got the referee to come in the
ring and do the little beatboxing for him

396
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:27.760
and Kurt Angle with his little he
puts the hat sideways and all that,

397
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:36.639
and he's doing a little dance and
yeah, it was hilarious. Yeah,

398
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:45.119
so I think like and then obviously
with Randy Orton, he's changed his characters

399
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:51.480
a few times too. He's never
just stayed the same. I know he's

400
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:58.159
had his moments where he's when do
you remember when he like one of the

401
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:05.079
times I remembers are any handcuffed triple
H to the turn book or and then

402
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:08.400
they had did e T Stephanie mcmahnon. Then he laid over and kissed on

403
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:14.800
the lips and vaguely remember that I
remember. I think I saw a replay

404
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:17.239
of it. But yeah, I
remember what you're talking about. Yeah,

405
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:22.800
Like there's stuff we used to do, and like when it like when I

406
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:27.800
said earlier when he punted like mister
mcmannon in the head or whatever or vintce

407
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:37.119
McMann and everyone like shocked or so. They're both both careers, they've both

408
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:44.960
left their mark and it will always
be one of those rivalies you always look

409
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:52.079
back on. They both had their
own thing going on, but when they

410
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:57.760
joined together there was always top of
top of the food chain, so there

411
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:05.639
was always going to fight each other, whether it was anything goes match.

412
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:13.400
When they had a sixty minute iron
Man match as well, where the competitor

413
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:16.920
with the most decisions at the end
of that time would be named the victor,

414
00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:24.519
obviously, and yeah, and they
also did one where if Senor lost,

415
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:30.920
he would leave Raw and that and
Sena accepted that. So, like

416
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:39.280
I said, they had plenty of
matches, and they faced off on a

417
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:45.519
December special episode of Raw, and
they received the Slammy Award for the Superstar

418
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:52.039
of a Year in a tournament final
with which Sena won, so he would

419
00:36:52.119 --> 00:37:02.639
not Slammy for beating and that halted
the rivalry for nearly four years then so

420
00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:09.199
and then obviously it came back again
in two thousand and eve fourteen, and

421
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:15.599
then they fought each other loads two
other times. But like you said as

422
00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:20.679
well about with the Wyatt family in
bray Wyatt or mainly bray Wyatt, he

423
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:24.599
feuded with both of them as well. Didn't even think about it, Yeah,

424
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:31.199
both at different times. Last I
remembered was when you see here Randy

425
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:37.480
Orton and Bray Wyatt faced each other
at WrestleMania Alexa Bliss was involved, and

426
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:43.760
then well before that, I believe
it was when Bray whyitt was really Yeah,

427
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:47.440
when Bradwhittet was really first coming out
he was hitting with Sena I believe

428
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:52.639
with the whole Firefly's entrance and everything
in the very beginning. I want to

429
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:57.159
say that was around like twenty fourteen
ish something like that. It's been so

430
00:37:57.280 --> 00:38:00.880
long, but yeah, so he
has few with both of them, come

431
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:09.079
to think about it, Yeah,
that he did fight both and like you

432
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:15.880
said, at different times of their
careers. But but yeah, they always

433
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:20.760
seem to end up against each other. I mean, do you think,

434
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:27.280
like like you said earlier with Randy
Orton on the possible returning, do you

435
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:31.760
think like that could be a WrestleMania
forty match, because I mean, it

436
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:37.239
is the forty of WrestleMania and that
is like one of the biggest rivalries in

437
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:45.840
w W history, while wrestling history. Could they possibly face each other at

438
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:50.599
WrestleMania forty. Oh, that's a
good one. I am glad you asked

439
00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:55.559
this. I think is it's absolutely
possible to also be kind of interesting because

440
00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:00.159
we're at the point now where Orton
doesn't have a fact anymore. He's not

441
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:04.880
an a team with Riddle anymore.
He doesn't have anybodies that are going to

442
00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:08.159
run in and help them. Well
on the bare surface anyways, Sina,

443
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:13.960
he's been off acting doing his own
thing. It doesn't seem like he's going

444
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:16.960
to have any run ins or help
out. So I feel like this could

445
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:22.559
be a clean match that we could
have for WrestleMania. I'm not gonna lay

446
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:24.920
money on it, because you know, I don't really watch WWE at the

447
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:29.199
moment. I'm an aw guy,
which I've honestly been slacking on that as

448
00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:32.000
well. I need to get more
back on it. But it is completely

449
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:37.000
possible. I could see them not
necessarily main event because I feel like they're

450
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:40.760
going to probably try to save that
for Roman Reigns and whoever else, whether

451
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:45.320
it's The Rock, whether it's anybody
else, to have a shot at the

452
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:51.639
title at that point. But it
is entirely possible they could have a match

453
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:55.920
on WrestleMania forty and it would probably
fill seats considering how big their rivalry has

454
00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:00.559
been over the years. Once again, to me, this is the ultimate

455
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:06.440
villain versus the ultimate baby face,
these two together. I mean, Orton's

456
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:09.239
legacy I believe in the beginning was
cemented with him becoming a legend killer.

457
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:15.320
There's going to be a reason that
his legacy is going to live on.

458
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:20.000
I mean him and Edge having the
greatest match ever, you know, quote

459
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:24.840
unquote, that was kind of another
example of legend killer stuff. He's still

460
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:30.280
going still facing off against almost anybody
that he could get his hands on at

461
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:32.719
the time to make a name for
himself. I don't really want to see

462
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:37.639
him end seeing it completely, but
if that were to be, let's say

463
00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:40.559
it was seen his last match,
it would kind of be fitting for the

464
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:45.920
career at that point because they had
so many together. That was a lot

465
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:50.360
of his career is just going after
Orton or having to face matches because of

466
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:55.599
Orton. And overall, I think
this rivalry has gone on a good amount,

467
00:40:55.719 --> 00:41:00.480
but it's been a nice story to
see. Yeah, they have any

468
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:08.239
final thoughts on the rivalry overall,
men, just that I'm glad we're talking

469
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:15.960
about it because, like we've both
said, it's one of the biggest valies

470
00:41:15.800 --> 00:41:24.320
in wrestling history, so it deserves
to be spoken about because for them to

471
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:30.079
have that many matches, whether it
was most of the time it was for

472
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:37.880
the w W Championship or whatever,
that was because they were both top of

473
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:42.880
the mountain, so they were going
to face each other. But whether it

474
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:46.719
was that or whether they just had
a normal singles match or whatever, you

475
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:51.039
always knew you was going to get
a good match. You always knew you'd

476
00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:59.079
get a good promo between the two
of them, regardless of whether it was.

477
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:07.119
On most occasions it was heated,
it got personal. But like now

478
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:13.760
you'd think they've when you watch them
now, they seem like they're matured.

479
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:20.360
There, Like if there is to
have a fight at WrestleMania forty, like

480
00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:23.920
we said, it will probably be
like like you also mentioned, a clean

481
00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:30.079
match, it would probably be maybe
like a face first, a face like

482
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:36.000
just a match to see who's the
best once and for all sort of thing.

483
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:43.480
But yeah, they'll always it'll always
be one of those rivalries that we

484
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:50.280
remember. So that's all we can
say. Really absolutely all right, guys,

485
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.519
So we're coming to the end of
the episode here, So if you

486
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:57.320
guys enjoyed this, we want to
make this a series of a sort.

487
00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:01.360
It may involved the gardener Michael Gross
and involve Silver Fox Rockey team. It

488
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:06.039
may involve Memphis Mark in your future. We're not completely sure yet, but

489
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:09.920
we're absolutely open to feedback. We'd
love to hear your guys' thoughts on this

490
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:14.639
as well as if you guys want
any specific rivalries he want us to cover,

491
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:17.679
even just a storyline. I feel
like me and King Scully here would

492
00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:22.320
be absolutely open to covering at least
to the best of our abilities. We

493
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:27.480
can get research and we can do
an episode on it, so tell them

494
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:31.119
how to reach it there, King
Scully. Yes, So if you want

495
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:37.000
to find me on Twitter, app
or x or whatever they call it nowadays,

496
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:44.239
it's just at Michael Scully eighty six. That's my and you'll see my

497
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:52.159
name is King Scully with a crown
ether side. Yeah, that's where you'll

498
00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:59.840
find me. And my dms are
open. So if you want to message

499
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:07.079
to talk about best the ANNUALFI DEBI
and to do that all right? Awesome?

500
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:12.599
Uh, you guys know me.
I'm maintenance Maverick. Everybody want you,

501
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.719
guys to do something nice for somebody
in your life. Somebody needs it

502
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:17.760
out there. You never know what
people are going through. H dms are

503
00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:22.400
absolutely open if you're looking for me. It's just at maintenance mav at on

504
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:25.199
Twitter or the X, whichever you
guys want to call it. I'm not

505
00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:28.679
really even sure what I want to
call it at this point, honestly,

506
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:31.400
but yeah. So this is the
first, hopefully of many, of this

507
00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:37.719
rivalry series. So this is part
one and I guess is closing out bull

508
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:43.840
Chocks. We're done, guys.
Thanks for listening to the WWE podcast.

509
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:49.159
Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite
podcast app so you don't miss a show,

510
00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:53.519
or head to WWE podcast dot com
and for all of these shows add

511
00:44:53.559 --> 00:45:01.000
free head over to Patreon dot com
slash WWE podcast until and we'll see you

512
00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:12.360
next time. Hm,