WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:05.679
The Carpentry Show with Robin Clevitt,
powered by Festal's new innovative eighteen volt cordless

2
00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:10.240
range from drills to sores, including
dust extraction, all powered by eighteen volt

3
00:00:10.279 --> 00:00:16.960
batteries. Discover more at festal dot
co dot uk. Right, Welcome to

4
00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:20.960
The Carpentry Show with Festal on Fixed
Radio. I'm Robin Clevitt and on today's

5
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:24.800
show, I'll be asking whether it's
okay to do certain things. Okay,

6
00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:29.079
I get asked online all the time
for advice and whether it's okay to do

7
00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:33.320
certain business practices within our trade.
So I'll set up a few scenarios over

8
00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:38.159
the next hour and explore what the
best course of action is in my opinion.

9
00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:44.119
Fix Radio time to crack on.
I'm Robin Clevitt and on today's Carpentry

10
00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:48.600
Show, I'm debating whether it's okay
to do certain things as a carpenter and

11
00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:52.840
joiner. So, for example,
is it okay to ask other carpenters what

12
00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:57.200
they charge in your area? So
I think this is a really interesting point

13
00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:00.679
because we've all got mates who are
working in the area. I know sometimes

14
00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:03.760
it's quite awkward to ask about money
and how much they're charging. Because people

15
00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.599
are quite private. But I do
really think it's important to keep a handle

16
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:15.519
on what we're getting away with effectively, because I think that because we're alsoelf

17
00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.000
employed, we don't actually have like
a community that we all sort of throw

18
00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:23.120
in our ideas in the middle and
say, I think that the going rate

19
00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:26.120
should be. We're not a union, okay. And I do think that

20
00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.879
it's important to network with your sort
of co carpenters and say, I think

21
00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:34.680
it's worth charging two twenty five a
day because I've worked out that that is

22
00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:37.799
what I need to charge to make
sure I can keep my tool sharp,

23
00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:41.079
make sure I can keep the fuel
in the van, the maintenance, and

24
00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:45.599
actually exchange notes because quite a lot
of people dictate to us what our day

25
00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:48.239
rate should be. And I think
that if we were a little bit more

26
00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.359
mindful or business minded and got together
and said, look, this is what

27
00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:57.000
it costs us to actually function,
I think we could probably push our money

28
00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:00.519
up legitimately. And so I think
it's okay to ask over carpenters, okay.

29
00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:06.840
So is it okay to not have
branded workwhere and a sign written van.

30
00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.039
I think either of these things it's
okay. I don't have a sign

31
00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:14.520
written van, but I do have
branded workwear, and I do think it's

32
00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:17.479
really smart when you see guys and
they've got their own branded workwear, especially

33
00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:22.159
if you're a member of the general
public and you've called a firm in and

34
00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:25.159
there's some uniformity across the firm.
So if the guys are all wearing the

35
00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:30.599
same kind of trousers, they've got
a branded polo shirt or a hoodie or

36
00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:34.759
something like that. I think it's
quite nice with regards to a sign written

37
00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:38.759
van. Now, based on the
fact that there's so much tool theft,

38
00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:43.159
it's really best that you don't advertise
the fact that you are a tradesman,

39
00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:47.159
because we're unfortunate to be able to
just leave our vans somewhere. Even in

40
00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:51.280
a car park for fifteen minutes.
People have their vans done, so I

41
00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:53.159
know that people say, my van
is not sign written, and it's still

42
00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:58.280
been targeted. So I just think
that if you're in the kind of business

43
00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.479
and you do driveways, for example, you see a lot of sign written

44
00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:04.280
vans who do driveways. They even
have big pictures on. I think that

45
00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.599
works quite well. When you're parked
in a road doing a drive people oh,

46
00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:10.280
look our neighbors having their drive done
and you've got a sign written van.

47
00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:14.159
They feel people feel they have the
right to contact you. And that's

48
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:17.759
what marketing is all about. So
on marketing, Is it okay to not

49
00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:22.840
have a website or any online presence
for my business? Now, this is

50
00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:30.000
a fantastic question, because I used
to do page advertisements in the local paper.

51
00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:32.080
I'd have a little tiny one eighth
of a column, okay, And

52
00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:36.000
it used to cost me about fifteen
pounds a week when I first started,

53
00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.280
just to get a little bit of
extra work in. It was locksmith in.

54
00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:42.240
It was a recession and it worked
for me. So I learned about

55
00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:46.280
advertising, basic advertising. And then
my eldest brother, Paul, who's an

56
00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:52.919
absolute genius when it comes to coding
computers, he said to me, i'd

57
00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:55.479
say mid nineties, oh you should
get a website. And I was like,

58
00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:58.960
website, what are you going on
about? And he said, oh,

59
00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:00.039
let me do it. So's so
send me some pictures. So I

60
00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.400
sent the some pictures and he put
together a website for me. And instead

61
00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:05.840
of my phone number on the van, because I did have a sign written

62
00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:10.560
van at the time, I put
my website domain name down the top of

63
00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:14.479
the van. We were doing loft
conversions in Putney, double part cars in

64
00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:16.879
the road. The people hated the
builders turning up in the morning tried to

65
00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:20.720
find a space and squash in between
their part cars. But what it did

66
00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:27.120
do was it gave people an opportunity
to email me and ask me, oh,

67
00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.399
I see you're doing a loft version
down the road. How much is

68
00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:33.319
it? And I found that it
was a fantastic way of getting new inquiries

69
00:04:33.399 --> 00:04:38.360
without that kind of like people worry
about phoning you up. So it really

70
00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:43.040
worked well for me, and that
grew into me wanting other online presences.

71
00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.879
I think a website isn't as important
as Instagram, believe it or not,

72
00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.279
because you don't have to maintain a
domain name, you don't have to host

73
00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:53.879
it anywhere. You can do all
of your direct messages on Instagram. So

74
00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:58.079
I do think an online presence if
you're a business, if you're actually going

75
00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:00.519
out there to try and find work, is a good thing. And if

76
00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:04.199
you're listening to the show today and
you don't have a website and you don't

77
00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:08.040
have Instagram, you don't like that, but you get enough work, that's

78
00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:13.519
absolutely fine as well. Because as
established tradesmen in a environment where we are

79
00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:19.120
short of trade people, I think
that you can probably survive without it,

80
00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:24.560
okay. So is it okay in
that respect then to not advertise my services

81
00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:29.000
and survive from word of mouth?
I would say yes. I've basically said

82
00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:32.319
that in the last part there.
I do think it's okay to survive from

83
00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:35.680
word of mouth, because if you're
working on your own as a sole trader,

84
00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:42.120
you probably need fifty sixty grands worth
of turnover a year. Spread that

85
00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:45.519
among the months, say five to
six grand a month of turnover. Is

86
00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:49.680
quite easy to pick up that sort
of value of work just through your network.

87
00:05:49.720 --> 00:05:55.120
So I would say it's okay.
Is it okay to not do any

88
00:05:55.240 --> 00:06:00.759
training or further development once you've somewhat
established yourself? So personally, have I

89
00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:06.560
done much extra training in my career
other than working with other fantastic trades people.

90
00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:10.399
That's where you do a lot of
learning, but it's unofficial learning.

91
00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:15.480
You learn from experienced people. I
haven't done that much. I've done training

92
00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:20.839
which is complementary, So I've actually
done training to install MVHR for example,

93
00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:25.519
so all of the duct work and
the commissioning. I know it's not carpentry

94
00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:29.560
and jewelery, but actually it was
a real carpentry job because we had to

95
00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:32.680
make so many adjustments to the building. It was carpentry, so we might

96
00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:35.720
as well put the system in as
well. So that's the kind of training

97
00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:40.639
that I've done as well. But
yes, I do think it's important to

98
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:46.560
keep your right on trends and do
training. Is it okay to not have

99
00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.000
any workbooks in? Of course,
it's okay. The way we work in

100
00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:54.079
the industry is people you don't never
know what you're doing next Tuesday, but

101
00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:57.879
someone's always got always rings you up
on Monday, don't they. You know,

102
00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:00.000
it's kind of like, oh,
I'm going to be doing next week.

103
00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:01.279
Before you know it, someone's called
you and so can you jump back

104
00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:03.480
on, get that roof pitched?
And before you know it, you've got

105
00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:08.399
six weeks work again. So yes, it's absolutely okay to not have work

106
00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:13.759
books in. And sometimes I don't
have workbooks in The Coventry Show on Fix

107
00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:17.480
Radio. This is the Carpentry Show
with Festal on Fixed Radio. Today.

108
00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:23.439
I'm asking whether it's okay to do
certain things as a carpenter and joiner.

109
00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:28.959
So is it okay to work alone
and not bring any subbis or and or

110
00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:32.800
apprentices into your business. It's absolutely
fine to work on your own as well,

111
00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:36.199
and sometimes we just need to concentrate, don't we. There are times

112
00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:39.920
where we could really use a pair
of hands, you know, the deliveries

113
00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:43.439
turned up and you've got to man
handle all that sort of stuff in.

114
00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:46.240
But it's the sort of thing we're
used to doing so many many many people

115
00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:50.079
I know, including me, quite
a lot of times through my career where

116
00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:55.680
I've had times where someone I'm working
with there on holiday and I'm working on

117
00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:59.519
my own, and to be totally
honest with you, I absolutely enjoy it

118
00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:03.160
as well, just being in the
zone. I've got the headphones on,

119
00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:07.120
I've got the radio going, and
it's really nice. So, yes,

120
00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:09.600
it's okay to not bring in any
subbies. But if you're in the market

121
00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:13.279
of slightly growing what you do,
and if you you know so at the

122
00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:15.959
moment, you might just be doing
the carpentry and joinery. Every now and

123
00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.959
then someone will say can you come
and do my loft conversion, which is

124
00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:22.360
eighty percent carpentry and joinery, But
you need all of the subbies, so

125
00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:28.279
you need your plumbing and plumbing and
heating, electrical plastering. You also need,

126
00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:33.320
you know, av people, so
you do need to bring subbies in.

127
00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.399
And even if you don't think are
they subbies or are they just my

128
00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:37.639
mates who are coming to help me, they're kind of subbies. Yeah,

129
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:41.919
you could put them into that category, even though you may not be paying

130
00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:46.080
them directly. Let's say the client
is paying them directly, which is what

131
00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:52.360
I prefer because it avoids the unnecessary
double taxation or having to run the construction

132
00:08:52.559 --> 00:08:56.639
industry scheme. And if you do
that, so you've got subbies working for

133
00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:58.879
you, you know you have to
stop their tax. You have to pay

134
00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.879
their tax. You have a liability
to the inland revenue to pay that tax

135
00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.840
and also to your mates who you're
bringing in that you've paid it on their

136
00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.639
behalf. So I honestly think it's
fine to work alone. But it's also

137
00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:15.720
okay to expand and contract as you
need to. And as far as apprentices

138
00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:20.240
are concerned, I would encourage anyone
working on their own to really find an

139
00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:26.440
opportunity to train someone at least once
during your career. If everyone did that

140
00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:31.039
at least once in their career,
you could sort of double the workforce just

141
00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:33.279
based on one to one if you
know what I mean, and if you

142
00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.039
could do it two or three times. I mean, I've done probably fifteen

143
00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:41.320
or twenty apprentices in my career.
I've thoroughly enjoyed it. It's had its

144
00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:43.799
moments, but I do think it's
important, so bear that in mind.

145
00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:50.600
Is it okay to communicate with customers
via text and WhatsApp only? This is

146
00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.120
a really good one. This is
we're in a transition period now because my

147
00:09:54.720 --> 00:10:01.639
communications with my clients used to be
phone to be writing. You'd write an

148
00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.799
estimate, you'd type it and send
it. They may even respond to you

149
00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:07.600
by writing to say yes, we'd
like you to go ahead. You know,

150
00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:11.039
you had that paper trail there,
so it was all good. Then

151
00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:16.360
it went to email, and I
think email is still for me, i'd

152
00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:20.480
say fifty five sixty percent. And
then recently, in the last say five

153
00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:26.960
years, I think that text and
WhatsApp is replacing it. But the trouble

154
00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:31.720
with that is you need boundaries because
not necessarily with text, but with WhatsApp,

155
00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.360
if you open the message, you
know the two blue ticks, they've

156
00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.399
sin that you sin the message,
So then if you don't respond, they're

157
00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:43.960
thinking why hasn't you responded so,
And that can be really invasive in our

158
00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:48.080
lives because after six pm at night, I don't really want to be bothered

159
00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.759
by anybody. I want to be
at home chilling out or you know,

160
00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:56.639
just doing what I need to do
without any interruptions. And I think that

161
00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:58.799
the worst thing that really gets me
down. We spoke about it before in

162
00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:03.960
the Corpentry Show is where you get
these clients on a Sunday afternoon or Sunday

163
00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:09.519
evening, sending you messages, putting
you back up, and you're meant to

164
00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:11.960
be relaxing, and next thing you
know, you're stressed out and you're not

165
00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:16.639
even started back at work. So
yes, communicate with customers via text and

166
00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:20.360
WhatsApp, but manage their expectations as
soon as you know, while you're in

167
00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:22.399
that honeymoon period and they're happy to
have you, you're happy to be there,

168
00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:28.000
lay your cards on the table and
say I'm happy to communicate via text

169
00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:31.440
and WhatsApp, but sometimes I won't
answer, especially out of ours, and

170
00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.440
I think that that's absolutely acceptable.
And from my experience, when you say

171
00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.320
that to clients, they don't do
it. They don't send you those messages

172
00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:41.919
and they respect it. Is it
okay to quote over the phone or from

173
00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:48.320
pictures rather than going and meeting people
In some instances less yes. For example,

174
00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:54.080
if you are a carpenter and you
just hang doors day in and day

175
00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:56.879
out, you know how many you
can do in a day. Roughly,

176
00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.440
I know that there's so many variables. If you're a carpenter just hanging doors,

177
00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:05.759
you know that three or four doors
a day in the right circumstances is

178
00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:07.559
fine. So in that instance,
it's just really not worth going round,

179
00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.840
especially if they can just quickly snap
a few pictures, maybe with a tape

180
00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:15.279
measure to say that they are standard
doors, and you could say, yeap

181
00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:20.399
eighty five pounds a door or whatever. So I would say in those instances

182
00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.759
it's fine. However, quite a
lot of the time we need to look

183
00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:30.120
and look at exactly what's involved in
a job, because even building a petition

184
00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:33.679
wall can have its problems. You
know, you'd think you could be able

185
00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:37.039
to quote that pretty easily, but
let's say the job is on the fifth

186
00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:41.320
floor, there's no lift, or
there's no service lift. Even getting the

187
00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:43.559
material up there could be difficult.
It could take longer to get the timber

188
00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:46.679
and the plast board up there.
So in that instance, yes, you

189
00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:50.519
need to go and see it,
because people have a habit of not telling

190
00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:54.440
you the downsides of things. They
just want you to do it from the

191
00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:58.440
upsides, and they never get talked
into it's only a day's work, because

192
00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:03.159
you know that they have no idea
themselves that it's a day's work. Okay.

193
00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.080
Is it okay to shop around or
should you build relationships with merchants?

194
00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:13.320
Yes, absolutely shop around, providing
you're getting a price like for like,

195
00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:18.399
and also the service is good as
well. So I've got relationships with local

196
00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.519
builders, merchants, timber merchants,
and I'm quite honest with them as well.

197
00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.960
Say would you like to price this
package of works? And I send

198
00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.679
it to two or three, but
they all price the same thing, same

199
00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:33.720
specification. If I say it's going
to be this type of insulation, that's

200
00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:35.600
the one I want. I don't
want them to substitute it with something that

201
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:39.440
they've gotten the shelf cheaper to win
the work. So yes, it's okay,

202
00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.279
And I think it's super important to
build those relationships with the merchants because

203
00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.200
we really do need them, you
know. I'm so lucky. Every now

204
00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.559
and then I think I need to
pop into the merchant on the way home.

205
00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:50.559
They shut at five o'clock, and
I say, do me a favor.

206
00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:54.000
Can you just stick two packs of
that outside the gate and I'll pick

207
00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:58.200
it up my way back through,
And they'll do that for me. And

208
00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:01.039
that's because I've built a relationship with
them. So yes, it is okay

209
00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.840
to shop around. Definitely, maybe
even venture online, but a venture with

210
00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:11.519
caution, because sometimes you may not
get the service with a local merchant.

211
00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:16.159
Okay, fixed radio, you're listening
to the carpentry show. I'm Robin Clever,

212
00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.799
and I've been asking whether it's okay
to approach working in our trade in

213
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.639
certain ways. Let's look at the
practical side of things now. Is it

214
00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:30.399
okay to allow others to take charge
on the site, even if it's your

215
00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:33.720
own job. That's an interesting one, isn't it? And I would say

216
00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:37.120
that I through the years, I
really enjoy it when I've got a team

217
00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:41.200
of guys with me. Let's take
Ed for example. He's been with me

218
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:46.399
nearly three years learning his craft,
and every now and then I'll see this

219
00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:50.240
flash of inspiration where he literally starts
to take charge it's like a natural progression.

220
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:54.639
Now. Personally, for Ed,
he's brave. He's always been very

221
00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:58.320
brave, always been prepared to,
you know, challenge me or maybe why

222
00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.080
don't we do it? And he
comes up with some great ideas, and

223
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:05.879
I think that you should never hold
that back. You should never try to

224
00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:11.000
say now it's my way or the
highway, because you know it's counterproductive.

225
00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:13.159
We want people around us to be
better than us. We want people to

226
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:18.279
be able to deal with things,
even if we have to nip down the

227
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.919
road. You come back and they
say, this is what happened, this

228
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.240
is what we did, and you've
got to be prepared to let them make

229
00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:26.440
their decisions. So, yes,
it is okay to allow others to take

230
00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:30.799
charge on site. And quite often, for example, let's say I've got

231
00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:33.919
my subbies in. Let's say I've
got a gang of brick is in and

232
00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:37.879
we are doing the brick work up
to plate height. I would often let

233
00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:43.000
them run and control the pace on
site because we're secondary at that point.

234
00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:46.320
We might be going preparing some timberwork, cutting the joist, but we'll be

235
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.120
out the way, we won't be
in their way. And if they say

236
00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:52.039
it's tea break. It's tea break, you know, and that sort of

237
00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:56.159
stuff. So I do think,
yes, it's okay to allow others to

238
00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.799
take charger and site. It boils
down to relationships, boils down to trust.

239
00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:03.919
But I do think that there's you
know, for a happy, well

240
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:08.159
run site, you need to share
responsibility, okay, So is it okay

241
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:14.519
to debate the approach or plans,
for example, when you're not in charge?

242
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:17.759
Again, that can be quite annoying. So let's say you've got someone

243
00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:18.799
and as soon as you walk out
of the room, they turn around to

244
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.240
everyone else and they go, oh, you don't know what he's talking about.

245
00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:22.840
We shouldn't do it like this.
We should do a lot of this.

246
00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:26.720
My mate's done it like this for
years. It's so much quicker.

247
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:30.639
You can't. You know, that's
not the right way of going about things.

248
00:16:30.679 --> 00:16:33.720
What you should do in that instance, if you think you've got a

249
00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.440
better approach, if you think you're
going to get the job done better,

250
00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:41.480
faster, safer, cleaner, you
should then make the right approach. Providing

251
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.559
their approachable. You should say to
your governor or the boss, or the

252
00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:51.159
foreman or the site agent, we
need to consider doing it like this because

253
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.080
chances are once you've explained it and
they say, oh, you're going to

254
00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:59.279
save me free mandays here, they
should be fairly pleased. I like to

255
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:02.679
remember that. Sean the story.
Sean Matthew says, when he was an

256
00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:06.519
apprentice, he was in a big
church and they had this huge limestone column

257
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:08.480
going up to the roof, and
they wanted to support it put some foundations

258
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.119
underneath, and they were all scratching
their heads engineers. He made the right

259
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:17.039
suggestion of making a whole all the
way through it, posting through a needle,

260
00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:19.839
jacking it up, and he was
brave enough to do it. Not

261
00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.519
only did they do it, they
gave him a one hundred and fifty pounds

262
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:27.359
bonus for that. So I do
think it's okay to debate the approach or

263
00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:33.000
the plans when you're not in charge. Is it okay to have several jobs

264
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:37.319
running at once? Or that scares
me because I've been there. I've had

265
00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:42.759
times in my career where I've scaled
up and I've had proper employees. I've

266
00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:48.319
had office people and we've been doing
insurance work, local authority work, private

267
00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:52.480
client work, and sometimes we'd have
twenty or thirty files open at once.

268
00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:56.559
Some would be starting, some would
be finishing, some would be halfway through.

269
00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:02.759
And it is a real I'm not
going to say it any other way.

270
00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:06.799
You've got so many people. You've
got logistics, all the logistics,

271
00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:08.480
you've got the weather, you've got
the suppliers, you've got your men,

272
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:14.200
you've got your clients, you've got
the local authority, building control, you've

273
00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:18.680
got health and safety. There is
so much. The taxman, the accountant,

274
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.440
you've got lawyers involved, and it
is really hard. So having several

275
00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.559
jobs running at once. If,
for example, you're doing first fix and

276
00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:29.599
second fix carpentry, it's quite common
to be doing a first fix on one

277
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.359
job, pulling off, going to
do second fix on another job, or

278
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:36.680
a new first fixed job. So
in that case, yes, it's absolutely

279
00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:41.279
fine to have several jobs running at
once, providing that you're finishing enough work

280
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.279
that you can raise an invoice and
get paid. Because sometimes we fall into

281
00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:48.799
the trap of working on a job
they say can you come in for a

282
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.240
couple of days, get the linings
in. You put the linings in,

283
00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:53.319
then you disappear. Then you come
back and you think, oh, I

284
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:56.559
raise an invoice, and before you
know it, you know It's kind of

285
00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.599
like that work that you priced for
for say ten man days, done over

286
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.000
five weeks, and that ten man
days has sort of been swallowed up,

287
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.160
so it doesn't feel like you really
made much money on the job. So

288
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.680
in that respect, be really careful, tread really careful. It's really nice

289
00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:14.480
to be able to start a job
and finish the job, quite like the

290
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:18.599
furniture side of the business, where
you can go and measure something back to

291
00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:22.480
the workshop, make it, go
out and deliver it and fix it up

292
00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.519
and get paid. So those types
of jobs are nice, aren't they.

293
00:19:25.960 --> 00:19:30.599
Is it okay to avoid risk assessments, safety protocols if you're working alone?

294
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:36.480
Okay, so the health and safety
I'm going to sort of remember this from

295
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.119
my mind, but there are rules
around what you should and shouldn't do.

296
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:44.759
Obviously, we should practice safe work
in that is the first rule. And

297
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.160
risk assessments. Now, generally speaking, if you're doing a job and it's

298
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:55.359
under thirty man days, then it
falls just outside of having to notify the

299
00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:57.720
HS. Believe it or not,
it's only thirty man days. It may

300
00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.920
have changed, but that's what it
you to be. So if you're doing

301
00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.359
a loft conversion and it's going to
be fifty man days, which just basically

302
00:20:04.359 --> 00:20:08.359
it could easily be fifty man days. You should be notifying the HS to

303
00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.160
say this work is taking place,
but it's very rarely done in the domestic

304
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:18.839
market. I think as a trades
person you should literally be risk assessing the

305
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.359
whole time. The whole time you're
at work. You should be saying things

306
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.559
like, is it safe for me
to make this cut? This material in

307
00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:29.960
here? Is this does safe?
Is it going to contaminate me? Is

308
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.720
it going to contaminate anyone else?
Is this step ladder safe? Should I

309
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:36.160
be standing up here? Should I
be drilling that? Because it's for our

310
00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:38.480
own good as well. So I
do think that as soon as you've got

311
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.880
a few bodies around you on site, you really do need to think about

312
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:47.119
it and whether you go to the
formality of writing out risk assessments, because

313
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.640
quite a lot of it is copy
and pasted to suit a project and put

314
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:53.000
to one side that you've got it. I think it's really important that you

315
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:56.960
do this all the time in the
back of your mind, and you encourage

316
00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.079
your lads to do it as well. If it's a sample they're doing something

317
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.039
and all of a sudden, they're
generating us. You don't realize it half

318
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.640
the time because you started it was
clean, get the masks on, get

319
00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:10.599
the goggles on, and do all
of those sorts of things. And I

320
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.720
know we're talking about working alone,
but I think that even more so when

321
00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:18.200
you're working on your own, because
let's take the scenario you slip put a

322
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.920
circular saw through your artery and your
leg, which has been done many many

323
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:27.839
times. You might not even get
to your phone in time before you're in

324
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:32.759
big trouble and you're losing a lot
of blood. So yes, be careful

325
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:37.039
when you're working alone. Is it
okay to leave your tools on site overnight

326
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:41.039
and at weekends? I prefer it
sometimes because if it's a client's house,

327
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.480
very rarely are they going to get
a visit from torthe's unless they're scaffolds everywhere

328
00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.839
and it's unsecure, there's no doors
and windows. People may do a visit.

329
00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:52.480
But yes, if they've got a
garage which is secure, I think

330
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.279
it's better to leave them in there
because you haven't got sticking back in the

331
00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:57.079
van. You haven't got to get
them home, you haven't got to get

332
00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:00.039
them out. You haven't got to
put them back in the morning, and

333
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.000
it's quite nice to be able to
lock them up. Or if you've got

334
00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:06.960
one of those steel site boxes,
take that on site put all your valuables

335
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:08.599
in there. And I know that
what I used to do when I have

336
00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.559
the steel box, because everything,
every tool has got a box, hasn't

337
00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:15.359
it. I'd take everything out,
put all the tools in so they fit,

338
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.559
and then you put the boxes to
one side, so the boxes are

339
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.720
empty. All your sustainers, for
example, are empty. So is it

340
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.640
okay to quit a job in the
middle if the customer's a nightmare? Oh

341
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:32.960
that's a really good question. Now. Just yesterday I was driving out of

342
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:37.720
my gate and one of my neighbors
was walking his dog and he's flagged me

343
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:40.240
down. I just thought he was
waving and saying hello, but he flagged

344
00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:42.240
me down, and he gave me
a sheet of paper with a handwritten note

345
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:48.400
saying his friend in Guilford, not
far from me, has had his roofing

346
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:53.000
carpenter walk off the job. He's
got a Ruth Tyler booked in a week's

347
00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.480
time. Can I do anything to
help? And of course I can't.

348
00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.079
I'm just kind of like you know
busy f for thee you know, I

349
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.599
don't often have immediate downtime. I
do do it for really close mates.

350
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:07.480
If someone's in trouble, I can
drop what I'm doing and my clients would

351
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.720
understand that too, But not this
case. Now. Straight away, all

352
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:12.880
I want to know is I'm I'm
like an old gossip. Then I want

353
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:17.799
to know what happened. Why did
they walk off? Because not because you

354
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:21.160
know, I don't know, not
because of the fought with the tradesman.

355
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:25.000
I always want to see if the
customer was at FOT was that customer a

356
00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:29.519
nightmare, because some customers can be
an absolute nightmare. I was watching someone

357
00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:33.839
on YouTube, a member of the
public, talking about insulation, and he

358
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.160
was going on about he used something
called chat GTP, which I realize now

359
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:44.160
is some sort of I don't know, artificial intelligence to work out how to

360
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:45.759
do insulating and how much he should
put in. And I was thinking,

361
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:51.079
hold on a minute, these educated
people with degrees who are now dabbling in

362
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.960
construction are trying to outwit all of
us trades people, and that can make

363
00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:56.680
someone a real nightmare, you know
the type when they turn up and go

364
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:03.359
hmm, that timber should be slightly
closer to that one because the regulation says

365
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:08.200
they don't understand, you know,
the broad variation of tolerance, for example,

366
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:12.240
and they might give us a load
of git and a lot of times

367
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.759
I know a lot of guys who
just won't take it. They don't need

368
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.799
it, they don't need any aggravation. They'd sooner walk off the job,

369
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:23.559
lose a day's pay and go.
And yes, it's nothing wrong with it

370
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.799
providing you in the right, but
it's always good to, you know,

371
00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:32.079
to make sure that they realize you
in your right, because there's nothing worse

372
00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:34.079
than if they start bad mouthing you
to other people as well, because that's

373
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:37.079
just out of order. So and
you often hear that, don't use a

374
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:41.720
cowboy builders, but we've got cowboy
customers. I know some of my other

375
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.759
co presenters here at Fix Radio have
talked about cowboy customers. You hear it

376
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:49.079
mentioned a lot, and sometimes it
just boils down to why I'm always going

377
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:53.160
on about, is managing expectations.
If that customer is moaning because you never

378
00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.200
showed up on Monday, they had
no idea that your wife, who's also

379
00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:00.720
got a full time job, had
to go to work. She could not

380
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.839
be there. She's a teacher and
your little one was poorly You had to

381
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:07.559
stay at home. When you've got
a poorly child, you haven't got time

382
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:10.640
to start phoning people up. You
think, oh, so last time you

383
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:11.680
know. I'm self employed. I
don't actually need to be on his job.

384
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:15.160
But because he doesn't know that you
might not show up, that's when

385
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:21.160
the trouble begins. So manage expectations. Anyway. I'll finish with a few

386
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:25.920
about lifestyle and our personal lives as
carpenters and trades people before the end of

387
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:32.200
the show here on Fix Radio,
the Builder's Station, The Carpentry Show Monday

388
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:37.000
from three and catch up anytime at
Fixradio dot co dot uk, the Builders

389
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:41.160
Station Fix Radio. That's almost it
for today's Carpentry Show, where I've explored

390
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.200
whether it's okay to do certain things
within our trade. So let's finish with

391
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:51.039
some scenarios we all might face in
our personal life. So is it okay

392
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:55.839
to take random days and weeks off
even if we've been sort of work booked

393
00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:59.559
in but don't feel up to it? I think like me. If you

394
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:03.279
listen to the Painting and Decorating Show
here on Fix Radio, last week,

395
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:08.279
Todd von Joel actually opened the show
with his intro all about this very subject,

396
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:12.759
and he went into some detail about
how he felt that he woke up

397
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:15.599
one morning and he just thought,
I know what's coming. This was his

398
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.599
words, I know what's coming.
I've got pressure from here, I've got

399
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.839
pressure from there. And if I
don't take a day off and recognize that

400
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:25.680
I just can't do anything today.
I know what's going to You know,

401
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:27.599
I might, it might get too
much for me. So yes, it's

402
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:32.920
absolutely okay to take random days off. We have to police our own lives

403
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:34.799
and even weeks if you need it
and you can afford it. I know

404
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.559
this is another thing because you get
the pressure of you've got the word of

405
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.240
living and all the rest of it. But I do think it's really important

406
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.960
to actually benefit from the being self
employed. But as I mentioned before,

407
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:49.559
many times, manage people's expectations.
So if you know you've got a client

408
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:52.960
who's not going out because they're expecting
you because you don't they don't let their

409
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:56.759
dog run out all over the place, tell them you're not coming in because

410
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:59.839
they'll say first thing they'll say to
you is, oh, you should have

411
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:02.400
told me I wasn't coming in.
I've been waiting in all day, and

412
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.160
it puts their backs up, and
it puts your backs up. So yes,

413
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:07.759
I think that it is okay to
take time off. We need to

414
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.200
do it. But even if we've
got work booked in and we don't feel

415
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.839
like to it, Yes, of
course it is. Is it okay to

416
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:18.880
drink alcohol every day in moderation?
Look, I'm not your GP. But

417
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.799
if you go to the GP and
ask that question, he is going to

418
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.480
say, of course, not okay. He's only got that line. He's

419
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:29.160
not allowed to say it's okay.
And I'm not going to sit here and

420
00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.000
say it's okay as well, because
you know, I think all of us

421
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.720
as adults, especially me, I'm
in my fifties, it's the danger zone.

422
00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:41.720
Apparently it's the middle classes who are
drinking in their fifties and more and

423
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.359
more and more. And you often
hear this actually in the media about you

424
00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:49.359
know, alcohol, subtle alcohol abuse, and even me, I've got an

425
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:52.759
addictive personality. So you know,
I was a smoker at sort of when

426
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.799
I left school, and before I
left school, I was smoking, walking

427
00:27:56.839 --> 00:27:59.680
the streets, I was drinking,
I was doing the only thing I didn't

428
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:02.200
do was drugs. I couldn't get
into that, didn't want to get into

429
00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:03.799
that. But alcohol, Yeah,
it scares me a little bit, in

430
00:28:03.799 --> 00:28:08.039
fact, because I absolutely love a
beer, and sometimes you associate a good

431
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:11.359
time with a beer and you struggle
to have a good time if you don't

432
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:15.039
have a beer. So yeah,
I think it's dangerous to say yes,

433
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:21.240
it's okay in moderation. However,
there are probably people listening to this could

434
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:25.240
quite easily open a small can of
beer, drink it with their dinner and

435
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:27.839
have no more. But personally,
I think to myself, I like to

436
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:32.279
save it for the weekends, something
to look forward to. And you know,

437
00:28:32.319 --> 00:28:37.119
they say you're only allowed to drink
fourteen units as a man, it's

438
00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:40.839
a safe level. I'm still not
sure is that a day or is that

439
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.079
in the whole week. Anyway,
someone will let me know, Okay,

440
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:48.599
is it okay to work weekends when
you have family at home? Oh?

441
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:53.720
This is Anyone who's self employed knows
that this subject is awkward because obviously our

442
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:56.559
families really want us to spend time
with them, and we want to spend

443
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.160
time with our families. But quite
often if the job taken longer, like

444
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:03.960
we've had these storms in the last
couple of weeks. Sometimes you need to

445
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:07.400
go in and fill your week up. You need to get the work finished

446
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.880
on the Saturday, maybe the Sunday
morning. And I hate that as well.

447
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:14.000
When you think, right, I'm
going to go in Saturday morning,

448
00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:15.960
don't worry, I've got to go
in. I'll be home by one o'clock.

449
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:19.599
And three o'clock comes and you're clearing
up and you think, actually,

450
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:22.720
that's my day gone, and you
get home. You've got sad faces or

451
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:29.000
you've got you know, like your
partner's quiet because she's like, well,

452
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:32.960
you said you'd be home at one
o'clock. And it's difficult. It really

453
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.279
really is difficult. And all of
us will go through this, I guarantee

454
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:41.599
it. And if you if you're
lucky enough that you can earn enough every

455
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:47.160
day from Monday to Friday, then
yes, isn't it fantastic to spend as

456
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:51.279
much time as you can at home
with your family? Okay, well let's

457
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.960
close on that one. Then you
can hear this show again from ten pm

458
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:59.160
with more great music right here on
fixed Radio. This and all of my

459
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:03.920
previous shows are available as podcasts from
wherever you get your podcast online. It's

460
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:08.359
as simple as searching for the Carpentry
Show, and you should find us.

461
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:12.759
If you think someone might also benefit
from some of the topics I cover,

462
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:15.319
then share it with them too,