Hey, Shelly. On today's episode, we have a special guest once again.
Are you gonna say something this? Sorry when you say something, No,
I'm laughing because we actually just recorded this like three minutes ago, and
I fucking went off about something that needs to be in scandals and a dandled
session, scandal sessions, and I gave a little too much information. So
Mary's like, I don't know if we want that out in the public.
H So we're doing a duover. This is take two on an intro.
Good God, and welcome to our lives. Anyway, Mary, carry on
with the intro. I haven't had enough coffee for this. No. Yeah,
Today we are interviewing author Chris Davis, whose book is called Worthy,
The Memoir of an Ex Mormon Lesbian. Actually, I'm not sure how new
it is anymore, because we are really behind in our recording schedule. It's
relatively new, I would say, like in the last year. It's pretty
new. Sure doesn't make it any less of a phenomenal book and make Chris
have any less of an amazing story that she tells. Yeah, and how
about that word worthy? Huh? Fuck it, fuck that word. And
that's how I started going off what we recorded three minutes ago, which will
be on Scandal Sessions. Thanks for getting that name right, appreciate that.
And we decided to use the word worthy and incorporate that in patron names at
the end about how people are worthy. Yeah, it seems like we've been
very negative lately with the patron names. We're like, all right, we're
gonna go with things that God hates. We're gonna go with with why you
suck. We're gonna go yes, yes, we're flipping that around it.
Yeah. Yeah, we need smell uplifting patron name. Anyone who has a
ship, patron name, whatever, just just do the opposite. Just decide
what the exact opposite is. Yeah, and maybe Shelley can mute her device.
I knew that was coming. Where's my phone? Hang on, but
we're gonna take a break, yeah and be right back. Yep, be
right back. Hey, everybody, Welcome to Ladder Day Lesbian, the podcast
about an ex Mormon gay girl just trying to figure out her life. My
name is Mary, my name is and life is not figured out and it
just keeps getting more complicated and weird. But you know what, that's what
life is about. It was easy I mean, it'd be fucking awesome if
it was easy. Not gonna lie, but yeah, yeah it's not easy.
So Shelley, Yes, we have a very special guest today. Yeah,
we do. I love doing interviews, by the way, If I
do, I do, And I'm super pumped about this one because, uh,
this person that we're interviewing has been a long time LDL listener and she
started at episode one. So she follows directly. She follows directions, at
least my directions. I don't know about other directions, but anyway, Mary,
go ahead introduc her. Well, today we have Chris Davis. So,
Chris is the author of Worthy, The Memoir of an Ex Mormon Lesbian,
and welcome Chris. First of all, welcome to Lattery Lesbian. Thank
you. I'm thrilled to be here. Rack, we are so happy to
have you. I want to read the blurb that is also, did you
say on the inside cover of the book, on the book jacket or something?
Yeah, it depends on which version you get. Yes, okay,
well we're going to set it up with this, but there's so much more
to the story, and that's why Chris is just gonna tell us the story
in her words. So Chris Davis was a lifelong devout Mormon who checked all
the expected boxes of wife, mother, teacher, leader, follower, and
believer until twenty twenty, when she left her family and her church to fulfill
her own personal destiny as a gay woman and independent thinker. She remains close
with her two adult children, one of whom is a believing member of the
church, and the other who is a transgender man who has also left the
church. So, Chris Davis, Welcome to Lettery Lesbie. I think I
said that allreaday, but I want to say real quickly, I think of
three words when you read that intro brave as fock, totally yes, totally
thanks and I was tempted to correct Mormon to a Church of Jesus christis the
Latterday? Say its? I mean, who's with me? Who's with me?
It's a win win for Satan. Good job Rusty's going to be when
he reads this, Not that he's going to read it, but I'll give
him a call. I'll be like, Yo, Rusty, Chris just fucked
up the title. You got him on your speed out? Okay, yeah,
absolutely, I do. Was it? Wait a minute, was it?
Russell M. Nelson who thought it was a win for Satan or something.
Noah, he was the one, right, Yeah, after billions of
dollars spent on the I Am a Mormon campaign from the previous in Quotations profit.
But we're not we're not going to talk about that. It's whatever.
Yeah, we digressed very quickly already as a matter of fact. So Chris,
okay, you have this story, and I want you to tell it.
I'm sort of summing it up. Where you had decided to stay in
a life that was making you miserable. That was the decision you were you
were going to make until you're one of your children was seventeen? Is that
the story? Yeah, he was fifteen when he came out to Yeah,
okay, actually, in the same conversation that he came out to me as
trans or as non binary at the time, I came out to him as
a closeted lesbian. Oh my god, that's oh wow. I love it.
And then I'm coming out and then you're coming out, wells coming out.
Everybody's gay in a perfect world. So why don't you back it up
and let's hear a little bit about you know, kind of your upbringing.
The whole getting married. Yeah, because deciding to stay in a life that
makes you miserable. Uh, and but you have to for some reason.
And then at this point, I'm going to die by suicide. So trigger
warning, trigger warning to listeners. If suicidal ideation is difficult for you,
then consider skipping this episode or just skip not just self care. You take
care of you. We understand. Okay, so that was the decision you
had come to, So we want to hear about what led up to the
point that, you know what, this is just my life and this is
what I got to deal with. And uh but wait, I want to
hear about the decision to get married, like that's a big thing for tell
us the day you were born? What was that like, your great pup?
Sorry, married, But it's interesting to me. Can we go to
the pre existence for a second. Clearly she was a valiant spirit because she's
here and she's not of another race other than white. Although you are gay
some men, I want to know because I do think that women and men
whatever within the church, even though they already like know that there's somehow queer,
there's still this pressure to get married. So I want to know about
the marriage first. Okay, so let's go back to my paycheck of blessing
when I was seventy. There we go. Oh nice, that's always a
good place to start. So hang on, I'm interjecting again. So for
those of you who are brand new and chose not to start at the beginning,
A, I'm angry at you. But b A patriarchal blessing is a
fake blessing given to you by a man who's somehow an authority. That basically
is like reading the eight ball kind of thing, and they just make shit
up. And we've had a lot of people send their blessings in and they're
very, very similar. There's certain things are supposed to say. But as
a believer, you're like, oh, this is my destiny. This is
exactly what God would tell me. Okay, yes, exactly. I call
it like an oracle. There you go. Yeah. So I had already
decided by seventeen that I was not going to have children, and I was
questioning, you know, my future, my sexuality, my interests, and
I was just sublimating all of that for the church. So in my patriarchal
blessing, it says clearly several times that I will get married to a man
that he will take me to the temple a righteous priest, and that we
will have children, and that we will I will raise these children in my
earth life. And I was cress fun, no pressure, and no pressure.
Exactly when when the blessing was over, the patriarch kind of just did
an aside and he said, I hope you like children, because you're going
to have them, Oh my god. And I was like, oh,
no fucker. And so actually I remember on my mission like standing in front
of the old, dilapidated microwave, hoping that it would make me sterile.
Oh wow, I don't mean to laugh. It's funny, but it's not
funny, right, I mean, it reveals a lot. But yeah,
yeah, So did you you knew by then already that you are you in
inklings, that you were a lesbian or how did that work for you?
Yeah? I started. I got introduced to the idea when I was about
seven in first grade, and then it was always in my head. But
you know, I started going to church at more regularly at nine, ten,
eleven, twelve, and those are formative years, and I heard messages
that were very much against that kind of thing, and so I was like,
Oh, that can't be me, that can't apply to me. I'm
a good girl, you know, But it did. Yes, the decision
to go on a mission was that all related to fixing anything. It was
in my paytarch a blessing that I would serve a mission. And I was
already dating the man who would become my husband. I had been dating him
for a little bit and he wasn't ready to get married, and so I
was like, Okay, I guess I'm going to serve my mission now instead
of when we're old together. You know, Oh God, I have that
in my blessing about serving a mission. And I also assumed that it was
that Brent and I would serve missions when we were old. Don't you love
hows like some random church oracle. Basically, we'll run your life against what
you feel inside. It was heartbreaking. It was heart wrenching actually, because
I was, you know, at an age where I'm trying to learn how
to listen to my own intuition and listen to my own feelings and thoughts.
But I had to converse oh no, no, no them and shut them
down. I mean, are Mormons really encouraged to follow their own thoughts?
No, not if they go against the teachings. And if they go against
the teachings, your bishop will tell you, well, you need to keep
praying and asking for answers that go along with the teachings. That exactly That's
what they told me. That was part of the trans conversation too, when
my son came out. What if you just feel like you never get those
answers that line up, well, then the priest did will tell you what
they are. I'd say, you don't get to go on your own.
Come on, you can, actually, if you're a woman, get over
here. You just convince yourself for yes, spirits, because if you have
authority above you that supposedly is connected to God and talking to them all the
time, then clearly you are not capable of getting any kind of inspiration or
having self thought, and so you doubt you're sin off and you go with
what the priest holder says. Yeah, yes, And these priesthood blessings,
don't they all pretty much say go on a mission and get married and have
lots of kids. I didn't know that. Yeah. Again, we've had
people send theirs in him like, oh shit, this is the same thing.
I thought it was personal and the same patriarch is like, all right,
who's next, and YadA YadA, mission be faithful. Yeah anyway,
sorry, okay, carry on. That was a nice side about blessings.
So I came home from my mission and decided that I needed to be like
as as my mission president put it, anxiously engaged in trying to find a
you know, a husband and make a commitment with him. And so it
was another couple of years though, before he was ready. And so I
was dating other people, and I was I was engaged to someone else,
and I got disengaged, and it finally, you know, came together.
Tell me about the attraction lack you know, traction or lack thereof for the
people that you were dating. Mostly it was just based on does he like
me? Is he interested in me? Would he have me for a wife?
So he gets the power, that's the same boat I was in.
He he gets the power to decide if I am worthy to be his exactly.
Not so fucked up? Okay, God, you know, I will
have to say that as a gay or queer person, Mormonism is kind of
a good bet before you're married, because there's really no expectation to have premarital
sex. You know what I mean. So, I mean, yeah,
that's a weird I mean until until the marriage happened. It's a weird pro
and it makes up for everything you can't just kick the marriage can down the
road, huh. And it's a perfect religion for you if you don't want
to have sex before you're eighteen, because that's when people get married. Yeah,
you're good to go, although they still do. But whatever, good
input Mary Jesus leave. We won't ask Chris to describe any of that.
I mean, if you want. I was in provo. Yes, oh
shit, I don't think. I don't think the when the push wasn't around
back then. It was No, I didn't know about it. I mean
it probably happened, but they didn't name it. Okay, anyway, So
you're your og boyfriend decides to ask you to marry him two years left,
you were ready? Yeah, tell us about how you felt about that.
So, I actually it was weird because I I had gotten inspiration in the
temple that I needed to move back to New England, That's where I'm from.
I was really strong and I was like, Okay, maybe I'll be
a hot commodity there's an RM a return missionary and maybe, you know,
maybe that's where my future lies. This is what God is telling me.
And so I shared that with my now ex now X gotcha. He took
me to the park and gave me two dozen roses and said, please don't
move to New England. And I said, if I stay, I have
to believe something is going to happen, like, you know, progress in
our relationship. Because he was kind of stalled and he said, I know,
and he bowed his head. And so the next day I was like,
where are we going to shop for rings? There? You go?
Wow, isn't it interesting? Sorry, I'm gonna interject real quick. So
in the temple you received inspiration, and I think it's interesting. I mean,
I don't hold any weight of temple anything in my mind, but your
inspiration was directly focused on you needing to find someone that will marry you.
Yeah, I mean nothing else. It wasn't like where should I go to
school? What's you know? It's like you need to get married, go
to Maine. And I'm not doubting that you had those feelings, But what
looking back, what do you think about that? Now? Uh? I
think it was it was a hyper focus on something that's not even it's not
even necessary to get married so early or at all or at all true true
to a man. All right, jump forward, we get married in the
temple. What was that like for you had been to the temple before,
because you had gone on a mission. I went faithfully every week to the
temple at least once a week and did a session. I did a lot
of genealogy and did the work for my ancestors. I was all in God,
Chris, that's so boring. Baptisms for the dead, endowments for the
dead, even Oh my God, I do I get it. I did
the same thing as she just wanted to get touched under her robe. She
wanted to get touched her I gotta get it somehow. You go in.
You're like, can we just do the wah an annointed? You'd be great.
I get to the left. Oh wow, oh, reverend, I
love it. Okay, so you're married. Next up as kids, Yeah,
we took a couple of years for me to feel like I was ready
to start that. And I was twenty eight when my first was born.
I did not feel called to motherhood. I struggled to connect with my baby.
I had postpartum for a year. It was a real struggle. Wow,
did you feel guilt about that? Oh? Absolutely? Like what's wrong
with me? Am? I not righteous enough that I can love my baby
and be a great mom? Oh God, that's the fulfillment of my eternal
destiny, right, It's the one thing that you are supposed to be good
at, the one thing if nothing else, you should be able to do
this, And you suck at it. That's how I felt, too,
Yeah, get it. Absolutely, it was exactly it. And so when
I had my second baby, I had postpartum for like a year and a
half and then and my brother passed away, and so I had nothing in
the tank and the bottom fell out, Like my life was in shambles.
And that's when I actually went in the hospital because it was so bad and
I was just ready to give up, and I had this little family,
and I went in the hospital and I finally admitted to myself that I was
gay and that I had made a huge mistake, that I'd made a mess
of my life and the lives of my immediate family, and what was I
going to do about that? And how was I going to live true to
myself? But also fulfill this commitment to these small humans. Yeah. Oh,
that's such a shit moment, such a shit moment where it's like it
was rough. I want something else, but I have children. I made
this life. Yeah, I made this life. What the fuck do I
do? And it's anyway you chose, go ahead. I chose to live
true to myself. In an interesting way is that I was going to fulfill
my commitment to my family. But then I had made a plan that I
was going to end my life when my youngest graduated high school, and so
that was like my way of kind of not conforming and my way of rebelling.
I don't know, it's kind of weird. Well, I have a
question about that. So why was suicide the option that you had landed on
versus I'm going to get out of my marriage. Divorce just wasn't on the
table, like it's an eternal commitment. But so you still believe, you
still believe. Oh, I was completely fully in until like until until just
a few months before my youngest came out to me in twenty seventeen. So
my brother died in twenty two thousand and three. I'm sorry about your brother.
By the way, yeah, thank you. Yeah, so sorry,
but I'm confused. So Mormons believe potentially that homosexuality is a sin, let's
say, but don't they also believe that suicide is a yes, So how
do you pick which one to do? Because the church at the time taught
that there are no gay people in heaven and so dying would cure me and
then I would be free to Yeah, I would be like a hetero and
I would be comfortable and appropriate after I was cured. You know, that
is most definitely a teaching. I know, the gay part didn't come and
that teaching until people were starting to come out. But previously it was like
any kind of any kind of difference, whether it be a physical ailment,
you're the wrong race, you know, whatever it is, it supposedly is
all in heaven. When you die, you will be perfect again, meaning
white and delightsome, straight, no physical differences, sure, except for the
TK smoothie. So yeah, I could see that you're like I am suffering.
I was born in sin being that I'm gay, So I'd rather just
call it good after I raise my kids and just fucking start over in heaven.
Am I right on this? Okay? And also I felt like my
brother had died in that I felt like, why am I staying here?
You know, like when that could bring me so much peace just to follow
him. Gotcha, that makes sense. Wow, So how did that change
your decision as your life went on with raising your children. It didn't.
Oh, it was still in effect until twenty twenty. Wow. And you
had like lots of I'm gonna say high callings, which is bullshit if you're
a woman. But as far as women go, like you were still less
than an eleven year old boy, but you did serve in some you know
whatever, higher callings than your random I did, thirteen year old girl.
Yeah, tell us about that. I was the Young Woman's President. I
was in the Release Society presidency. I was over Enrichmond Night, which is
the monthly gathering of the women ordinated that. I was the primary pianist for
a few years. Yeah, some some pretty involved callings. So do you
actually play the piano or they're just like you look good. I don't even
touch a piano. Now. I hate trauma because I was just used so
much, you know, never paid for anything expected Like, oh, I
remember they would make changes to the primary program that the children were going to
sing in front of the congregation. They would make changes like the morning of
and there was no like regard for how difficult that is for the pianist.
It was just it was just go with the flow, Chris, come on,
use the spirit. The spirit will guide you bad. You're like watching
me fuck up this song. Oh my gosh, I have a child of
God will never sound the same again. Bitches, I gues said, I
know this might be a good time from Mormon mad lib. We don't have
one already. We haven't done one in a long time. It's been a
bit Yeah, all right, So you've served a shit ton within the church,
given up all of your time, made zero money, just your typical
And I have a question. So this whole time you're doing all these things,
all the expected things in the church, and your wife and mother,
the whole thing in the back of your head, though, is this idea
that at a certain time coming up in the future, you are going to
die by suicide. You had this plan and that's what you were gonna do.
Like, how long did you have this plan in your head? Seventeen
years fall from two three to twenty twenty. I died every day for seventeen
years. Oh my god, and you never doubted your choice. No,
I felt like that was the like, doctrinally, that was my decision,
like I based it on doctrine and policies. Oh fucking church, fucking cult.
Yeah, seriously, everybody listening, get out of the fucking church.
Do you know somebody in the church, Get on the fuck out seriously.
So jump forward to your I'm sorry, is this your son now or your
daughter? And you? How do you want us to talk about them before
transition or does it not matter? I just call him my son. Okay,
let's talk about your son, because we know a big thing happened there
between you two. Yeah. So in twenty seventeen, like at the very
end of the year, he had started going to this diversity club at school,
which I knew what that meant that my husband didn't know secrets. Yes,
And he started exploring some of his identity and talking with his friends and
trying things on. And he had been hinting for a couple of weeks that
maybe something was coming, some kind of revelation for him. And he was
saying things like, well, you know, my friend is trans and how
do you feel about that? And you know what would that be like,
and so kind of feeling us out, both of us, my husband and
I, and he finally just got the guts one night too. We were
in the car in the driveway and I parked the car and he just he
just spilled it, and he was like, would you still love me if
I was trans Oh, that hurts my heart. That hurts my heart.
And I was like, of course, of course, I will always love
you, and thank you for trusting me with your truth. And by the
way, I'm gay two yeah, yeah, yeah, But mostly just I
wanted him to know that that love is the only appropriate response to that absolutely
and safety, like, clearly you're a safe well clearly he trusted you enough
obviously to tell you I would only imagine and tell me if I'm wrong that
when you returned with like, hey, guess what, I'm gay too,
there's this bond of safety, of a safety secret, right you know what?
That is exactly what happened, because for the next three years he kept
my secret from everyone, including his own father. I wasn't I wasn't ready
to disrupt my marriage yet. So yeah, he came out to right away,
He came out to everybody, but he kept my secret. Later,
after we the two of us left the church, we would spend our Sunday
mornings at Panera with our milky white coffee and our sweet tea, and we
would toast and bear testimonies to each other that we were so grateful that we
had left the church. Oh my god, I love it. Let me
let me guess no piano playing in Panera. I taught him all the secret
handshakes. It was wonderful. I have taught those to my kids too,
and they look at me like I'm a weirdo. Uh. Oh god,
I love it. But we bonded really well. Oh for sure. I
wonder as you taught him more of the wacky shit, was he more like,
Mom, what the heck? He's still finding out wacky shit, And
he's just like, why did you do that for so long? But you
know, we were we weren't it right? Yeah? No, I know
I didn't think it was wacky at the time. Absolutely, that wacky shit
runs deep. Yeah. So, going back to the story and you and
your son having a secret for three years, at what point did your husband
start to I mean, was it all at once. It's like, we're
leaving a church, your daughter's now a son. I am gay, Like,
did you hit him all at once with this stuff or how did that?
I didn't when when my son came out, we had some discussions with
the bishop because he called us into the office. My son came out on
his YouTube channel and the Young Woman's president saw it. Oh my god,
and just all he said was, Hey, this is my new name,
this is my these are my new pronouns, you know, and you know,
nothing against the church or anything. But he he got with of it,
and he he called us into his office to manage expectations early. As
he put it, Oh my god, and he said, you know,
there's no such thing as transgender or non binary or gender queer or anything.
You're looking at it Jesus, Oh my god. I okay. So I
recorded these interviews. There were three of them. I have them on my
phone. Awesome, we might need those for a scandal sion. I was
like, this is gonna be good. I have to record it. But
I was still believing at that time. But I had already started, like
a few months before, I had started investigating the truth claims of the church
and learning about the polygamy with Joseph Smith. And you know all this stuff.
And I read this book called Combating Cult Mind Control, and our church
is in that I should be yeah, yeah, And it was just telling
like how do you spot a cult? And I was like, oh my
god, they says the Church of Jesus Christ are lotterday saints on the outside
of the church. You just spotted it. Yeah, absolutely, So I'm
curious what was the moment where you're like, oh my god, I need
out. Was there a certain teaching or just exhaustion. It was the last
day that we talked to the bishop. There were three meetings with the bishop.
The first one was just my husband and I and then the second two
were with my son also in the room, and he was being awful.
The bishop was just being awful, and my son was like trying to ask
specific questions to see if he could still stay in the church and betrans like
he was trying, and the bishop was like, you know, it's it's
not compatible. And so we left that interview and then a couple of my
friends like contacted me and said, bishop just contacted us, and OU did
your son and Jesus Yeah, and said that we're not allowed to use the
name and pronouns, and I was like, what fuck? And so I
texted my bishop and I was like, are you talking to people about what
we discussed? And he was like yeah, I'm just trying to protect the
congregation and and then he was like he was trying to defend himself. And
I gave him three chances and then I was like, I type the words
you are a prick, and I like hovered over the sun button for a
little bit, and I was like, my husband was in on that group
text too, and I was like, oh, yeah, you prick.
It was the last moment of my church life. It was like did he
respond? No response at all? Nothing? He still has a respond.
Oh my god. Fun good for you. I'm scary shit to tell your
bishop he's a prick. I love it because you're defending your child over this
dick face. Yeah. And this this again reinforces this goofy thing that happens
in the Mormon Church where any old person with a penis can be the head
of a chur the bishop, without any training, without any counseling as far
as like how how to counsel people? Where's the classes in seminary or whatever
it is that teaches you how to counsel people and like holding a confidence yeah,
is one of one. No fucking therapist would ever tell anyone. I'm
talking family members, anyone, except if you're like, I'm about to murder
my mom, But wouldn't do that. Can't do that legally, right,
legally they cannot do that. So how is this guy able to do that
sort of bullshit? Well, he's not trained, but in his mind it's
his job as the father of the war, Yes, to protect the members.
And in his mind, your son was gonna fuck everybody up. They
didn't want your son, but they didn't want your son fucking up the ward
exactly and being a bad influence on the other young women. Yeah. Well,
and also, I think a lot of people right now are duped into
thinking that the Mormon Church by and large accepting, but when you get down
to the bishop by bishop level, it sounds like that's not the case at
all. And I guess it depends. Maybe it's bishopric roulette, you know,
it depends on who your bishop is. I'm guessing your prick bishop for
this to happen again in twenty twenty three would be the same answer, in
the same warning, he would Yes, oh, I have a new buzzword.
Instead of Bishop Rick, it's Bishop Prick. Bishop Prick. Yeah,
Mary, Oh my god. So, Shelly, this sounds like a good
time for a break. I agree. We'll be right back, and we're
back. Hello. It was so interesting during these meetings though, Like in
between the second and third meeting, he talked to my son and he was
like, I want you to go and pray about this, and I want
you to come back next week when we talk and let's discuss what God tells
you about what havenly Father tells you about your decision. And he was like,
and you and your husband need to pray about it too, and just
make sure that you're in alignment with the Church's teachings. And of course,
it, you know, like threatened to take our array. I recommends if
we didn't fall into alignment. And so we came back the following week and
my son said that he felt like God was with him on this journey.
Now he's not not, according to the bishop. Pray. The bishop was
like, Nope, that's not the right answer, basically is what he said.
And I said, wait a minute. I jumped in. I was
like, so you told him to go home? And pray about it.
Just pray that he would be in agreement with what you said. And he's
like no, And I was like, oh, yeah, this is so
obvious. Yeah, that's exactly what you were going to say. I had
that happen too everyone. I think everyone that's leaving the church with questions,
most everyone will have a bishop say pray until your answers is alignment with the
church, because any other answer is from the devil. Yes, clearly.
But what I love about this part of the story, Chris, is here
is your son coming up with a different response than the bishops. But if
you go back in time when you are ready to move to Maine to start
your life over, you didn't, and when you had doubts about and I
don't even feel a calling to be a mother, you did it anyway,
you know what I mean. That's a good point fast forward. You are
now standing up for what you believe is right. You know, yeah,
because it was my kid, you know, yeah, I heard it my
whole life. I heard how wicked homosexuals are and how they're sinners and we
love the sinner but hate the sin and that kind of thing. But until
that was aimed at my kid. Yeah, oh no, I did not
want him to experience that kind of self loathing, you know. I didn't
want that to be his inheritance for me. Yeah. From the church,
Yeah, I just love how they teach you to hate yourself if you're queer,
like your entire life, even if they don't know that you're queer,
they teach hate. So in your mind, you're like, I hate myself,
yes, yeah, And I don't really know how anyone successfully loves the
sinner but hates the sin, Like, how does that even work? It's
a lie? Yeah, because there's no way to show someone true unconditional love
when you're judging the shit out of them, right, right, there's just
no way to do those two judging the shit out of who they are,
right. Like I could say, listen, I love you, but I
don't like that you keep, you know, holding up liquor stores like that
sucks, but but very specific, very specific. I've been watching True Crime
and there was a part about holding up liquor stores that was just last night,
the fresh in my brain. So what I'm saying is to to not
like to say, you love someone but you don't like who they are as
a human being. That's fucked up because that's saying that who you are is
sinful. Yes, absolutely, and my mother is stuck in that limbo right
now. She's a member of the church, but she, you know,
in order to answer her temple recommend question, you know, do you sympathize
with or associate with I'm not sure how they word it now, but it's
essentially, do you, you know, support people who teach against what the
church teaches? And she says, I love you, but I can't support
you because I need to pay money to go to the temple or I will
not be saved. Thank you Mormon teaching. Yeah, I know you got
a ten percent raise. Yeah you did congrets at a girl. Okay,
So jumping forward, remind me how old was your son when he came out?
Fifteen fifteen, so we're hitting the age we're getting to where he's seventeen,
which is when you had decided, you know, I'll be good to
go at that point, when he was eighteen graduating eighteen. I'm sorry.
Yes, So after the whole coming out and you're doubting the church, how
long did it take for you to decide I am not going to take my
own life. So I had a friend in twenty nineteen approached me. She
was a friend from the ward. We had been friends for over a decade,
and she said, I'm learning to be a life coach. Will you
be a guinea pig for me so that I can get my certification? There
we go? Did She didn't know what she would she did, She didn't
know what she was getting into it. I didn't come out. So I
left the church in early twenty eighteen with my son. But then it was
another three years before I came. Two years until I came out to my
husband and the world and my parents, you know, and everybody. And
so twenty twenty was the year that my youngest graduated from high school. That
was the year that I in August I left. I left my family on
August third. It's called my New Life Day. And I celebrated every day
every year August third. I'm set on my calendar. I'm going to celebrate.
You do you know what I'm celebrating this year? Why? I Am
going with my girlfriend to see Pink at the met Stadium in New York.
Oh my god, we've seen Brandy Carlisle. How many times we actually advertised
the podcast at one of her concerts. I don't know that that actually happened.
I'm not convinced. We never got a bride to Oh we never paid.
They didn't send us a bill, so I don't know we had good
intention. We did, We really tried. Okay, so let's take you
from I mean, let's talk about how your husband reacted and how did the
divorce come about. Yeah, so he was completely shocked. He had no
idea, and I was under the impression that he knew, but he it
was just never talked about. We never talked about it. Can I just
say that your ex husband's gaydar is clearly broken. I don't know. Maybe
she was good at thinking, being like the devoted wife, know like whatever,
whatever. He needs to get that thing touned before he starts dating again.
Okay, there you go. She knew what she was doing, Shelley.
Oh cool, it's called acting acting. Yeah, wunning. Wow.
Wait, I had to know what was your hair like? Was it lesbian
hair or straight girl hair? Oh? My god? Okay, it's important
question. So this is an important question and it actually applied, Thank you,
because when I was twenty and I was dating him and I was about
to go on my mission. I overheard him telling his friend that he liked
long hair, and so during my mission, I didn't cut my hair at
all, and I came back with long hair for him. And I kept
that long hair for the next twenty years until I turned forty. And then
I was like fuck that this is my head, this is my hair,
and yeah, what long hair anymore? So I got a cut. Was
this was this before the divorce or appor like did he leave you over the
haircut? This is what I was forty. I'm fifty two now, so
I was like twelve years ago. Yeah, and how long have you been
divorced? We separated in twenty twenty. The divorce became final about January twenty
twenty two. Okay, so this recent yeaheah, like just happy yeah,
oh wow wow. Okay, So at some point in there, your son
as fifteen, comes out to you, You come out to your son.
Is it like a light switch at that point, like, oh, I
don't have to die anymore? Like when did that hit you? No?
It was the life coach. Okay, back to the life coach. Yeah,
she did all these assessments on me and you know, surveys and trying
to figure out where my strengths were and what I wanted to do with my
life. And so we came up with this whole plan, and I like
played along and then I don't know, like after a while, I was
like, you know, I really appreciate you doing this for me, but
it's not ever going to happen because I have this other plan. Oh,
you still had your death by suicide plan, even though she was like having
you run for president? Okay, yes, why for president? I'll vote
for you. Oh yeah, So when did it switch? When were your
like, man, I think I want to stay around. It wasn't until
she helped me make a plan to live. She said, what if?
What if there are a few more chapters in your life that have more hope
and peace and happiness for you. Yeah, And so we came up with
a new plan for me. So she knew about the old plan. I
told her. Yeah. After we'd done all the assessments and made the plan,
I was like, no, this is never gonna happen. My life
coach helped me transition from my plan to die into a bright, brilliant,
hopeful plan to live. Nice. I feel like we cannot get out of
this section of your life. But it's so fucking good and it's so relatable
and everyone listening is like, oh my god, me too, me too.
What was her plan? Like, I feel like we need to offer
like a website for this life coach you. My book is dedicated to her.
Here you go. We can reach out to her when it happens.
So what was her plan? Her plan for me? Yeah, she was
like, you know, we discovered that I was creative. I didn't know
that, and so, you know, she's like, what would you like
to do for a living. I was a stay at home mom for the
whole time I was married, and so I never even had a career.
She's like, what would you like to make a living at And I said,
if I could be a writer, that would make all my dreams come
true. Hell yeah, so you did. You did become a writer.
I did. First. What I did was I went back to school.
Yeah. That was our first step as I went back to school. And
that gave me connections outside of my church family and my immediate family. It
gave me confidence, it gave me, you know, education, which was
empowering. Is this after the divorce or before before? Okay? And so
I actually had a professor who was a philosophy teacher, and she encouraged me
to write my story, and so I wrote an essay about being gay in
the church and about this experience with the bishop and my youngest and you know
how things were progressing after that. And the essay is actually published in an
anthology called I Spoke to You with Silence about Queer Mormon Stories Nice that came
out last summer. Is that available for purchase or is it online? It's
on Amazon. Yeah, and it's called again, repeat that, please,
I Spoke to You with Silence. Pray as the author per a, Y,
gotcha, Mary's going to make that. Put that in the show notes.
Thanks not to talk about myself, but I can relate with the whole
getting to the end of my Mormon life, my forty years of Mormonism,
and feeling like, who am I? What do I want to do?
What does my life look like? Because you know, I have memories of
what I love when I was younger, before I was committed to being this
Mormon wife, and I look back and there were things that I just can't
do now I'm too old. I don't want to go back to school forever,
and I've had to kind of let that go. I have some sadness,
but I let that go. But going forward, the excitement of the
fuck do I want to do? First it's super scary, and then it's
like, oh my gosh, I have the world. I have the world
at my fingertips waiting for me to be me right. Yes, yes,
yes, it was terrifying and exhilarating. Yes. Yeah. So she was
helping you, like learn things about yourself. You're creative, you know,
it sounds like she was just helping you try to figure out who you were
in a lot of ways. That's exactly what she was doing. She was
giving me permission to explore those things outside of church. Wow, So that
probably was such a huge mind shift for you, Like who am I outside
of this crazy religion? Right? Like, like you probably never thought about
that before, Like who am I ever did? Well, Hey, they
don't give you time to think about yourself. Be you're not supposed to think
yourself. They don't give you a permission to think about because they already tell
you what you're gonna do. You're gonna be the youth leader, and you're
gonna have kids, and you're gonna bake pies and ship. You're gonna plan
every week and get a plan of happiness plan. Let me guess, Let
me guess Chris was not happy. That is that safe to say? I
looked happy. Oh. No, one would have thought that I was a
fucking mess inside, because you can't show that ship on the app. No,
you have to be a good example to your you know, the fellow
congregants. You have to like show them faith and fortitude and and faithfulness.
Oh were you a big testimony bear on fast and testimony Sundays? No?
Oh, fuck you. I was when brainwashed the ship out of people,
not even knowing that's what I was doing. Yes, I want to call
every person the congregation and be like, yo, it's just some bullshit.
I actually didn't feel the spirit when I told that story and cried. I
was just nervous. Yeah, anyway, Yeah, it was really confusing for
me to try to decipher between genuine spiritual experiences and just the heart cell that
the church teaches and presents and the like. The sentimentality. Yes, it
makes you cry, it makes you emotional, it makes you feel deep,
strong feelings, but it's not real. It's not a confirmation of the truth.
Yeah, it was. I remember having this moment where I went to
a Bonnie Rait concert and this was when I was kind of kind of leaving
the church, and it was like, I'm pretty sure I just felt the
spirit right now listening to and watching Bonnie Raid. So wait a second,
So that means Bonnie Rate is true because it was spirit. It's true,
Like what the fuck? Church? And so I know for me leaving the
church, and I've told the story in earlier podcasts, but the doubt you
have in your own feelings is like, Okay, I feel this way,
but is that true or is it still heart cell going on? And by
the way, heart sell people is the church's way. They actually call it
that of giving you like the beautiful music and the moments, all this stuff
to force you to feel the spirit, which is the same as a Bonnie
Ray concert. So yeah, I doubted my intuition for a long time.
The church sayes doubt you're dat well, very true, And that to me
must be one of the biggest struggles for people leaving Mormonism or high demand religion
is like, how do I trust my intuition when I've suppressed it my entire
life. That was so hard. It was so difficult. Yeah, it
took a while to learn it and I'm still still learning. Oh yeah,
you're you're fresh out of the cult. Girl, you were the same,
And it's we're not done figuring our shit out. It's like we're starting to
figure our shit out. We're starting to trust ourselves and for me, the
trusting what you feel and be like fuck it, I'm gonna go for it,
and then whether it works or not. To me, it doesn't matter
if it was a failure or success. I went with what I felt yes
good about it was my decision. Yes. Well, And the good news
is all of us humans here, maybe unless we're Eckert Tull or Oprah,
we're all still figuring it out right and maybe figured out and doesn't know everything.
It never stops, It never stops, and that's it. I'm encouraged
by that because I know that I'm not the only one like day to day
trying to figure my life out. You know. But the difference is that
the church teaches you all the answers, and so you walk around feeling like
you already have all the answers, you already know all the truths, and
so there's no reason to have introspection. You have the whole truth, got
it, and it makes you better than everyone else. Which, by the
way, I remember this part of your book where you talk about this isn't
your exact phrasing, but kind of coming down off your Mormon high horse and
feeling like part of humanity. I felt that so hard too. It's an
amazing, amazing, incredible feeling that you get from nothing else. Tell me
about it. Yes, I was always better than I always knew like more,
I had more wisdom, I had more spiritual connection with the divine and
so I was special. I was elite, and that kept me separate from
people. Yes, yeah, right, it kept them at a distance.
And so finally, once I was able to leave that, that's what I
call it joining the human race. Like, finally I wasn't high and mighty.
I was one of the people. And I found that people welcomed me,
ye open arms. They didn't judge me for how terrible I was before,
you know, and all the things that I said when I was Mormon,
and yeah, and it was so beautiful and so rewarding. Isn't it
interesting how the church teaches its members to kind of be afraid of everyone else
like they're part of the world. World. We need to be a whold
higher standard because we have the truth of you know, black and you know,
Mormons aren't the only ones who say that that's true. It's cults in
general. Yeah. I remember hearing that as an evangelical. It's like,
the world is out there and we're we're different on the inside. You know,
you have to be protected from the world. The world's coming to get
you. Yeah, And isn't it interesting now that you're in the world,
they're like, come on, have this cup of coffee, join us,
It'll be fine. And then pretty soon you're like a like a street whar
You're you're shooting up heroin. It's slippery, slow cooking up some meth according
to Mormon teachings. But no, no, no, Instead, you know
what it is, it's a feeling of not judging people. That's what it
is. And that is such a lift to your spirit to be like it's
so freezing. Oh god, it's it's phenomenal. It is. It's nice.
Yeah, that was a nice part. I feel like we haven't touched
on. I mean, I'll this is in your book, I'm assuming,
but but more detail and Yeah, it's just great getting your insights as right
now we're sort of telling your story of how you change your life and you
still wanted to be here. So is that what it is for you now
that I really want to be here. Not only am I not going to
go with my original plan to die by suicide, I want to stay.
Do you know the first moment that I felt that was just last year.
It was near the end of last year. I was talking to my girlfriend
and I said, for the first time in my life, I want to
grow old. Wait, like I want a girlfriend, girlfriend or friend that's
a girl. Okay, So my Girlfrienday, she's amazing, and she listened
to your podcast. She's a never mo but she used to to podcast.
It probably helps her understand your wacky, crazy bullshit. Absolutely does, and
she says, Hi, by the way, Hi, lots of love,
lots of love. So even after you had left the church, you were
still kind of like, I mean, that's how deeply embedded the bullshit is.
And Chris had this plan for how many years again, seventeen years,
seventeen fucking nuts. Yeah, yeah, so you had to adopt this new
plan thanks to the life coach. But then, like believing it that Okay,
I'm not gonna do this thing anymore. I'm gonna I'm gonna live.
Like when did you fully embrace that? And you said just last year that's
like, damn it. Not only am I gonna live, I want to
live. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna crush this shit. Yeah. When
did that come about? Yeah? It was just I don't know, it
was kind of random. I was just really appreciating the love that I have
with her, and just you know, things were going well with my kids,
and you know, the book was coming together, and I just felt
like so much hope for the future for the first time, instead of dreading
the future, instead of dreading you know, fulfilling my personal destiny as a
wife and mother for eternity. Now, I was like, oh, I
can be something else and I don't even have to think about eternity. Oh
my god, that's so freeing. I can just enjoy this life. Yeah,
love that. What are your days like looking forward now that you're not
a fucking Mormon. I am enjoying the fact that I don't know everything.
Ah. Yeah, Like I have become very settled and comfortable with sitting in
that uncertainty and I've discovered that I don't have to have all the answers and
I don't have to look to somebody else for answers for me. That's huge,
that right there is it's huge. Yes, yeah, because, like
you know, when you're in these high demand religion, especially Mormonism in this
case, but just having it all planned out, and I just imagine that
it has to be terrifying to suddenly one day you leave and now you don't
have it all planned out. You don't have a plan, You don't have
a plan, you don't have a belief. Yeah, you're ostracized from friends
and family. Yeah, you knew everything beforehand, and now you fucking know
nothing except you don't want to be there anymore. But you know nothing.
You have no faith, you have no belief in an afterlife. You don't
know what you're supposed to be doing, you don't know who you are.
Some scary ship. Anyone listening who's been through that, You're gonna make it
through. It's gonna be okay. I don't think we ever get finished,
but we can get past that ship and figure out who we want to be,
what we want to do, and look forward to the discovery of not
knowing everything, and what can I learn today or tomorrow? You know I
love that too, Yeah, because I'm not not just having to learn how
to fucking bake bread and change diapers. I'm like, I know that ship
as to wither without a bread machine. With bread machine, that I wasn't
that good. I'm just che You just throw all those ingredients in there,
either, did I? Although I did my ex and I shelled out thousands
and thousands of dollars to get full one year supplies of food for fucking family
of nine, Like hello, no wonder. We ended up like we were
preparing for the Second Coming and we didn't want our You're not in Missouri,
it doesn't count. You have to be in the right stay well, the
devil is gonna come and the whole world's gonna break down and who knows,
zombies and shit whatever, and we had to be ready. You know what
should cost to fucking have a year supply of dehydrated feet and like unground wheat
for nine people. I would rather get killed by the zombie than have to
eat that ship. What a stupid life we lived, Chris, It was
meaningless busy word God, and you heard it here folks. Ye, that's
their new tagline. What the Church of Jesus Christ's latter days sayings meaningless busy
word. I'm gonna get spray paint. Don't tell the cops. I'm gonna
get spray paint and go put that underneath all the Church of Jesus Christ will
on the churches. I love that. What if we missed here and this?
I know we kind of jumped from We jumped a lot. We did.
That's what we do. Let me tell you about my book, please
do. I started writing it just a stream of consciousness, and I ended
up with two different stories. And so it was a challenge, a fun
challenge to combine those two stories into one book. Did you pray for inspiration
on that? Did you show? There was no prayer involved in the book?
Carry on? In the writing of this book, each chapter has two
halves. So the first half of each chapter is a nostalgic story about my
childhood growing up in bangor Main, you know, a lot of them with
my brother or my grandparents or whatever. Just something happy and something a little
playful, little humorous. And then the second half of these chapter tells a
traumatic story of being in the church as a woman or as a gay person,
or with my kid or whatever. And so in each chapter I develop
a theme and I draw that thread through both halves of the chapters. Interesting,
it's a badass, so it kind of balances out some of the heaviness,
brings in some levity. It's just easier to digest. Sure, yeah,
awesome, get that. So, Chris, your book is out.
How do people get a copy of it? And I want to say the
title again, it's called Worthy, the Memoir of an Ex Mormon Lesbian by
Chris Davis. That's you, that's me. Yeah, how do you get
a copy? So I'm getting them into some local main bookstores. But also
it'll be available on Amazon, and it'll be the ebook, the hardcover,
and the paperback are all coming out at the same time. Nice, because
you know how I like to order on Amazon. Still, still, it's
a habit. You can find links on my website Chris Davisproud dot com.
Chris Chris Davis dot dot and Chris is spelled C h R I S.
Davis. Yes, Chris Davis Proud dot com. I'm gonna put all this
in the show notes. Well, Chris, I want everyone to pick up
your book. Yeah, seriously, people, I know we cover a lot
here, but there there is so much more. I know the story beginning
to end it if you would like a story that follows a linear line and
isn't jumping around like the way we do an interview. What the book is
for you? Once again, it's called Worthy, The Memoir of an Ex
Mormon Lesbian. Look for it on Amazon or Chris Davisproud dot com. Chris,
thank you so much for joining us. Yes, this has been awesome.
It took a while to connect and here here we are. It was
such a delight. Sorry, we talked too much. No, never,
thank you, Mary. Never apologize. Shelley talks too much. I was
just about to say, she's probably apologizing for me. He's gonna do a
blanket apology for the last four years. I'm sorry everybody. Sorry, bitch
Eggs. That's part of why we love her. I have to just disclose
that you guys are in my acknowledgments in my book. Help me laugh my
way to a place of healing. Shit. That's lovely. So what percentage
of royalties? We'll talk about that later. About it forever in the same
town. You buy us a beer and We're good. You got it,
Chris, thanks again, Thank you. Chris is fun. I hope being
able to hear from her on the podcast gets you to like feel her a
bit. I like to know the authors. I like to know who they
are outside of the writings of the books. So, Chris, you're fucking
awesome. Feel her a bit? Huh? Not like feel up her a
bit? Although sure whatever, I don't know what ual consent informed consent.
Please Jesus, Mary and Joseph, you could feel the book clutch as you
want. Absolutely. Uh huh. How are we doing? Wait before we
jump to patrons. Yeah, oh, we got to take a commercial break
anyway. Oh, before we get into patrons. See right back, Hey,
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Hello. Okay, I was about to jump into supercast. Bit. Let's
tell patrons, okay, I can do supercast. First, do it.
We've got one supercast member today. Uh, we're going to celebrate the heck
out of her. Yeah, Michelle O D O dot D something like that.
God, so we need an O dot D for what you are worthy
of. She might have an Irish surname, Oh like O'Donnell or O daughtry
or O Dingleberry. That's rare. Did I make it sound right? Oh?
I think was better to marry your team. Shelley on the didgeridoo.
Don't make me do therremon noisees and egg? The fuck is a theremon?
Yeah, you don't know. We'll talk about it later. I don't think
anyone do raise your hand if you know what a therminda is. No one
raised their hand. There mind coming up in the future anyway. Okay,
so o d what was the first name again? Michelle? Michelle, she's
worthy of something. She's worthy of onion dip. Damn right, not that
you ever weren't worthy of it. I'm not sure everyone's worthy, Michelle,
you are especially worthy of onion dip. And you know what, you get
to pick whatever chip you want to dip into your onion dip self. That's
weird. This is getting weird. Mary's sounding like Shelley right now. But
you don't like onion dep No, I do, but sure you go with
a wavy lace. I don't like the wavy lace. You know, they
just crunch weird? Can we move on from Michelle ode Michelle onion dip onion
dip? We apply don't have any onion allergies because then, yeah, I
couldn't have I couldn't eat that. No, your body's not worth it.
I don't onions. No, it's not great for me, but Michelle,
you enjoy that onion dip. It's all you worthy. Yep, Oh that
was a long one, Sure was all right. Patrons, the first patron
I have I think is a left and come back patron. And by the
way, that's awesome. Yeah, no judgment here, no, no.
Sometimes the new names we give to new patrons, they just don't stick.
Oh yeah, that's true. You're making us come up with a brand new
name for you every time. Everyone gets a new name every time you rejoin.
But don't just like join and then quit and then join and them quit
like days at a time to get new name new names, because we'll run
out of new names. It we'll start giving you shit names. When we
noticed that already we already get onion dip. I just did that. Fine,
Okay, This new repeat patron, which we love you, thank you,
is j M last new G JMG. So are we coming up with
three things? No, that's too well, we could try so just the
MG. What do we know? JAM is the first name jam j M.
We're just coming up with G. Yes, there's a last name.
Oh but we're just doing G. Well, I did the last one.
What is JM worthy of? J M? You are worthy of You can't
stop thinking about onion dip. I still like these were all o's more onion
dip lan you're worthy of I was gonna say good things, but that seems
so lame, and like, sorry, you try, you try. Let
me see, woo, I got it, I got you do I do?
And I don't know the age of this person. Okay, JMG,
but your g is now geriatric care. Well, like when the time comes,
when the time comes, I'm not sure if you're like nineteen years old
or ninety nine, I don't know, but when the time comes, you're
worthy of it. Yeah, when the time comes, God damn it,
JM, you are worthy of good geriatric care. Double g's with a sound
and a hard and a soft G. That's that's double points two for JM.
Drops off again. I'll be like, fuck, what are we gonna
do next time? Well, not geriatric care, because you're only worthy of
that once in your life for good time. Don't be greedy greedy another G
name that is a G. Huh? All right, thank you, JM.
Who is our next patron? Katie C? We know Katie? Oh
we do. Let's give her a weird one. We have partied with Katie.
We've gone to concerts with Katie. Katie's a fucking badass. Yeah she
is. Okay, let's see she deserves a badass worthy name. I think
our dog bit Katie one time. Oh Domino did he? Yeah, he's
kind of an assholes. I mean he's a sweetheart, but somehow he just
flips out when people stand up and walk he for sure? Does? I
mean he didn't break the skin? Maybe he did. I don't know.
Sorry, Katie, Sorry, Katy is awful. Actually, we should probably
give her a good c name. Oh she is worthy of that, but
I'm not gonna say it out loud. It's your turn. I think Katie
is worthy of Oh you know what, Katie has a lot of cats.
Well, she's like a cat lady more than one. No, I know,
I love her cats. I've taken a nap with her cat. Complaining
about Katie's cats, you complain about my cats? I do. I'm not
really a cat person. No. It's the funny thing about Mary not liking
cats is the more she dislikes my cats, the more they like her.
Fucking assholes. That's how cats work like. I don't think you like me.
I think against you. I know you don't have to rub against me.
I didn't give consent to that activity. She asked, well, you
no means no, but you didn't answer in a cat land, if I
could learn no and cats speak, do you want to hear what it sounds
like? Okay, maybe a swize? Well played. Okay, so Katie,
catty cats. You're worthy of your cats. That's very sweet. I
know I love your cats. Okay, who's next? S W? S
W? But just the W part? Well, yeah, no, she
gave me a name, but I'm just doing the W. Okay, what
you got? So s W. I hope you know who we're talking about
here, because I don't know if we've had a lot of sw's. But
anyway, s witchcraft witchcraft. You do whatever kind of weird, funky ass
witchcrafty thing you want. You are worthy of exploring whatever you want, which
you witch. Well. Also, worthy itself starts with a W. Yeah,
but b S worthy could be No, that doesn't work because worthy is
what everyone's getting there, worthy of what they're worthy of? Worthy? What
if this person doesn't want to be worthy of witchcraft? I'm just throwing that
out. It doesn't matter if they want it or not. They are worthy
of witchcraft if they choose. Okay, and witchcraft can be interpreted in multiple
ways. So all right, interesting, weird. Like I said, Wicked,
I didn't like, like like narrow it down to one thing. Is
that a religion? By the way, Wicked, Well, I didn't say
it was a religion. Well, I don't know. I don't know anything
about it. It's a spiritual belief, is it? I don't know?
All you wickens right in? Let us know what it is there you go,
or we can google. But that's less fun next to Linda, h
Linda, it's me huh. The obvious thing would be to say Linda is
worthy of happiness. Oh that's very sweet, but that's a little boring.
So what about handbags? Linda might be worthy of handbags? Maybe maybe Linda
leg's handbags and collecting them. Maybe handbags makes Linda happy? And another two
for maybe maybe they do. Linda. Listen, you are you are worthy
of handbags. As many fucking handbags as it takes to get you happy.
Collect them all, collect them all, like them all? Yeah, like
pokemon. Okay, thanks, Linda, we have one more. Uh,
Kaylee didn't give us a last name at all, So Kaylee, I feel
like when people don't give us last names, we just go little nutty pants.
Okay, so what do you got, Shelley. Let's go with Kaylee.
Let's use her first initial for Kaylee. So Kaylee, K We're going
with k. Okay. So hey is the word you're trying to find?
Okay, which are a great one. Kaylie, you are worthy of kicking
ass. Oh yeah, Kayla, get out there and kick some ass.
There is nothing ass kicking that you can't do because you are worthy of all
of it, all the ass kicking, all of it. I like.
Get well. Thanks all the patrons and supercast members today. Reminder, if
you would like to toss us a little love, we sure appreciate it.
Please visit Latterday Lesbian dot org slash support. All right, can we wrap
this up? Wrap it up? All right? Thanks everyone? Thanks to
Dan from Extension Audio. Thanks for leaving it in Dan, We sure appreciate
you, and remember steer clear of those cults because they are no joke,
no joke at all. Talk to you later. I