WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:07.040 First of all, we had a call of one of the major mortgage players 2 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:15.359 in the country, the organization that establishes the rules for the mortgage industry for 3 00:00:16.039 --> 00:00:21.440 whether the currency statements should be adopted for the mortgage approvals and so on. 4 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:26.440 And they have a whole team already. They want to adopt, They want 5 00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:30.600 to make a proof of concept. And the question is no longer what is 6 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:36.240 blockchain, The question is please pay attention to us, Please have a call 7 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:48.240 with our team how we can integrate it. This content is brought to you 8 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:52.640 by bitco, which is one of the top crypto custodians in the crypto industry. 9 00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:57.280 Bitco works with many big companies and brands such as Pantera, Capital, 10 00:00:57.320 --> 00:01:03.280 Bitstamp, and bitcoin. Ira Key also selected Bitco to power its wallets for 11 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:07.799 its NFTs and Bitco has many great services such as hot wallets, custodial wallets, 12 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:14.359 self managed cold wallets, and NFT wallets. Many institutions trust bitco with 13 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:19.879 its top level security and incredible services such as being able to deploy your capital 14 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:23.840 wallet's in custody which includes lending, borrowing, trading, staking, DeFi access 15 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:27.400 and more. If you'd like to learn more about bitco, please visit bitgo 16 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:32.560 dot com link in the description. Welcome to the Thinking Crypto podcast. You're 17 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:37.920 home for cryptocurrency news and interviews with me. Today's Natalia carian Neva, who's 18 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:42.319 the CEO of Poppy. Natalia, great to have you back on. Thank 19 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:46.359 you so much for having me Toni. Hi everyone, Natalia. You know 20 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:49.719 I'm a big fan of you and the work you're doing at Propy. I 21 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:55.519 believe a real estate will be on the blockchain from a transactional standpoint as well 22 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:59.719 as tokenization. So lots of questions for you and all the latest and greatest 23 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:02.159 that you as you're doing. So let's start with what's new with Propy. 24 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:08.000 Absolutely, there have been so many new things in Propy, in our ecosystem 25 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:12.919 and overall in the crypto industry. So I'm excited to have this conversation with 26 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:17.960 you. But since we last Charity and your interview, I think the major 27 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:24.400 update on our ecosystem is that we backed a new ecosystem project called proper Keys, 28 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:30.000 and then Propy also launched a license title and s group business about a 29 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:36.960 year ago. And with that business model where we utilize our transaction platform on 30 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:42.680 blockchain, we're closed to be profitable. And then also last week we'll launched 31 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:47.400 a partnership collaboration and integration with coinbase, the coin based wallet, so super 32 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:54.360 super excited. Another item, we launched a AI model for document recognition and 33 00:02:54.400 --> 00:03:00.439 automation of the transaction last year. So again a lot of stuff too update 34 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:04.159 you with. So let's talk about proper keys. How does that work? 35 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:09.280 Absolutely? So, this project, proper keys I was beta launched only a 36 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:15.960 couple of months ago, but last week it was the major official launch and 37 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:22.639 it is built on base the layer two on Ethereum network. Proper keys allows 38 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:29.800 users to mint addresses home addresses and then keep those addresses all over the world 39 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:34.159 on your wallet, in your wallet, and then you can put your ded 40 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:38.919 on chain attaching it to the address, or even upgrade your home if you 41 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:46.400 minted your own home to an RWA NFT. Oh wow, So to your 42 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:50.680 point of RWA and the tokenization and all these things that are happening. So 43 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:54.199 I can let's say the house I live within here at New Jersey, I 44 00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:00.919 can create the key for this property location and then put the actual well obviously 45 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:05.560 the deed mintet within the NFT. Is that how it works exactly. So 46 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:10.240 first you buy your address, you can also buy the whole street, and 47 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:14.240 then there is a gamification like in similar to monopoly, but it's a very 48 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:21.439 crypt native staking based the producol that will allow you to mean homes and neighbors 49 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.720 and so on. But let's say you mated your own address. It cost 50 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:29.560 only ten propit tokens, which is about ten dollars today. Actually we just 51 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:35.160 reduce it to five dollars and five propit tokens, and then if you want 52 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:41.160 to keep your date on chain, you click upgrade the NFT, you pay 53 00:04:41.199 --> 00:04:45.560 additional one hundred proper tokens, and then because we have a license title and 54 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:51.279 a screw company, automatically we extract your deed from the county and send it 55 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:58.720 to IPFS encrypted with a password so that you can keep it securely. Because 56 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:05.079 last year alone they were about four hundred million dollars lost in title fraud and 57 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:11.639 multiple counties are being hacked all over the country unfortunately, so this data, 58 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:18.920 the data data is not secure for homeowners currently. So can I do this 59 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:23.160 across the United States? And or is it beyond the United States as well? 60 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:29.439 Minting addresses actually is a global product, so we call it mint the 61 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:35.319 world we encourage people all over the world to buy their addresses, play with 62 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:45.279 them an even mint landmark through our AI integration where NAI will generate an image 63 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:49.519 and you can add bitcoin or etherory or any popular coins on top of the 64 00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:56.560 image and keep it on your wallet. But the upgrades are available only for 65 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:00.959 the United States for now. Now can I mint you mentioned? I can 66 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:05.480 do my entire neighborhood. Is it kind of first, first come, first 67 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:10.120 serve where I can take the property even if I don't own it and create 68 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:14.839 the NFT exactly. That's why we encourage people to hurry up and mint their 69 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.759 own home before somebody else grabs it. But if somebody else did it, 70 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:26.079 no worrise. There is a game between minters and homeowners where the homeowner can 71 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:32.959 come and claim their address and it will be the upgrade to tier two right 72 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:38.319 away. The payment is one hundred proper tokins as I mentioned, and then 73 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:43.560 fifty proper tokens actually goes to the minter, So you are incentivized to mint 74 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:47.120 your whole neighborhood and then go and explain them, Hey, here's your address, 75 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:51.199 here's my gift to you. You can upgrade it, you can keep 76 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:56.199 your date on chain. You need to do X, Y Z steps and 77 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.279 here are the benefits, and then the protocol will incentivize you with fifty proper 78 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:06.079 organs. It will also give you a special og NFT as a present, 79 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:14.279 and we'll give you five x staking power in the proper key staking product. 80 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:19.720 Now you mentioned the county will facilitate adding the deed and so forth for a 81 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:24.480 property you own. So I'm assuming they go through the whole verification process that 82 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.600 if someone tried to say, put a deed they found online or something on 83 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:31.560 there, the county you may reject. That. Is that how it works. 84 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.240 And once excuse my rookie questions, just trying to figure out the logistics. 85 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:40.439 If someone was to say, try to take my address and maybe they 86 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:43.079 found a deed, a copy the deed, but it's an outdated deed and 87 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:46.480 they tried to add it to it. Yeah, yeah, that's a great 88 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.560 question. First of all, when we add theeds on chain, it's a 89 00:07:49.600 --> 00:07:55.199 time stamp of the past, right you may have a new one, So 90 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.519 it's an immutable record and it can serve as an evidence in many courses in 91 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:03.279 the United States, but it's not a proof of you to transfer ownership. 92 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.560 That's a grade number three, the tier three, the next upgrade where you 93 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:13.399 create your uh, you create an r W a n f T from your 94 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:18.839 home with our help. That's where the final source of ownership is the n 95 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:22.399 FT itself. While and we did those as you remember, that's when we 96 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:28.040 had this interview last time. It's so when we were transferring n f ts 97 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:37.000 of real estate ownership through LLC's records already in the county, instantly entirely obvious 98 00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:45.639 smart contracts. That was the big innovation of the previous cycle. So yeah, 99 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.120 when you upgrade, you did on chain and put you in on chain. 100 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:56.000 It just an additional evidence of that current deed. We extract the latest 101 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:00.720 deed of course, uh, and we put it to you your n f 102 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:07.720 T in your wallet. We also verify through a very simple KYC that it's 103 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:13.480 you who is upgrading the n f T. That we avoid any strangers to 104 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:18.960 just meant addresses and personal information, right right, Okay, So I guess 105 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.440 that's the answer, because I was wondering, you know, what if someone 106 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.000 was to you know, try to do something. But to your point, 107 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.399 you go through that KYC process. So natally, I know we're very early 108 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:33.240 in this cycle of tokenization and putting real estate on the blockchain and much more. 109 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:39.559 And do you see, you know, the the innovation that you guys 110 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:46.039 are doing that you know, maybe in five years the National Real Tea Association 111 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:50.039 and maybe you know, different folks in different states are going to start adopting 112 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:54.360 this technology. Absolutely, I think we are in the very beginning of this 113 00:09:54.519 --> 00:10:01.879 story where we have a proven track record that this innovation works better than the 114 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:09.840 traditional real estate transaction. And also all those industry participants that we've been educating 115 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:15.559 for years now, right, Properly has been around since twenty seventeen, and 116 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:22.759 obviously we're very well connected to brokerageous leadership, to Fredo mac to the national 117 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:28.200 sitational fielders and so on. But at this point we're no longer are wasting 118 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.320 our time in education what is blockchain, what is the theory? And what 119 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:39.279 is a smart contract, but rather providing now more details on how to integrate 120 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:46.240 it into their processes. And we are proponents of a gradual transition in this 121 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:52.240 innovation. So we have proper title, which is closing transactions almost through a 122 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:56.399 traditional way. The consumer doesn't see the blockchain unless they want to connect their 123 00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:01.919 wallet, and then we have This is the most innovative settlement through NFTs. 124 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:09.120 I like this example with the Netflix. When Netflix launched, they knew that 125 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:16.679 one day the content the movies will be streaming online via internet. Yet they 126 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:22.919 started with CDs online, and I compare those the title business that we have 127 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:26.480 right now to the CDs online. It's on blockchain, but it's still kind 128 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:37.360 of the CD version thirty days closing process and then the transition to the NFT. 129 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:43.120 For us, that's streaming streaming ownership entirely on chain, and it's like 130 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:50.200 the Netflix online CDs. They had those business models in parallel and they actually 131 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:58.799 stopped the cities online only two years ago. So it's been in parallel working 132 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:03.480 for many, many years. But now we all just know movies online. 133 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.559 That's how I see in five years it's totally doable that suddenly the real estate 134 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:13.840 will be liquid entirely on chain. And our investor team Draper Or recently we 135 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:22.080 had we had spaces on Twitter on x Anthony Pompliano, who is also very 136 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.519 active both in real estate and crypto. Both of them are telling you that 137 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:33.440 most likely it won't be the government that will change the real estate transfers onto 138 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:39.919 blockchain, but rather it's a consumer push of the insurance. The title insurance 139 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:43.840 will no longer be needed. At some point the licenses will the titland esqual 140 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:50.480 license will know or will be obsolete. Because smart contract is the settlement, 141 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:56.720 why not have this high value asset to be transferred to a secure producal as 142 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:03.879 blockchain now related to you being built on building on base right, which is 143 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:09.720 through coinbase, but it's an Ethereum layer too. Since the Duncan hard fork 144 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:15.639 on etherorem went live, the gas fie is associated with minting addresses when based 145 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:18.559 via proper keys went down by over one hundred x. He told us about 146 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:24.720 that. Yeah, absolutely, I think this upgrade the Duncan hard fork of 147 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:31.879 ethereum for the industry, it's like the transition from the modems in the Internet 148 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:43.080 space to broadband. Suddenly we have this affordable network on blockchain, just like 149 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:50.399 when the Internet has those You remember the noisy modem switching on a lot of 150 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:58.879 products were not user friendly just yet, but now in blockchain it's more affordable. 151 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:05.840 So since the Theorem merge occurred in twenty twenty two, this significant upgrade 152 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.919 from ethereum from proof of work to proof of stay did not reduce the gas 153 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:18.759 fees, and only with this upgrade last week suddenly we see a significant, 154 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:24.279 significant drop of fees. And in our case, when we launched the proper 155 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:31.519 keys minting and address was about two dollars per mint, where the address itself 156 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:35.399 costs as I mentioned, about ten dollars. So now and so of course 157 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:41.639 it's a significant cut ten to twenty percent. Now since the update upgrade, 158 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.960 it is a couple of cents one to two cents only, and you can 159 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:54.559 imagine that the activity of minting addresses suddenly spiked. The base network also is 160 00:14:54.600 --> 00:15:01.039 experiencing a sudden increase in transactions. So definitely it's a history moment. I 161 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:09.960 believe in this upgrade more significant, probably even the merge itself on Ethereum. 162 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:20.320 So the network's performance is definitely now is a foundational change for the whole blockchain 163 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.159 space. Yeah, great point, and to your you know, because people 164 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.000 have been concerned by gas fees and sofa, but that's great that the upgrade 165 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:31.879 is lowering those fees. And also you know your analogy of going from dial 166 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:37.759 up modem to broadband, it seems we're in that transition phase. So that's 167 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:43.039 really great, and then the property token got listed on Coinbase. I've been 168 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.759 a propery token holding for a long time and I believe obviously in properties as 169 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.799 I've been holding the token. And what was the listening earlier this year or 170 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:58.919 in last year? It was actually previously, but what has happened recently was 171 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:06.080 listing on the Prime app as well as the integration with a coin base wallet. 172 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.360 So for US, coin Base is this gatekeeper of crypto legitimacy. They 173 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:22.960 do very high quality verification of projects. They check that talkens are utility tokens, 174 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:32.320 that the teams are serious executors behind the projects. And for US, 175 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:37.960 coin Base is this big player similar to Amazon or Google. At the time, 176 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:45.480 they are building the future economy on chain. Last year alone their revenues 177 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.799 were over three billion dollars, so they're growing very very fast. And now 178 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:56.200 when you go to coin base wallets, since last week you can actually see 179 00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:03.759 that you can mint a home address through the coin based wallet browser and get 180 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:08.920 a reward for that. And then this week actually they will also promote a 181 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:18.519 put your deed on chain through proper Keys, which again delivers this real life 182 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:26.759 application for users. And this may be a tough question to answer right now, 183 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:32.400 do you foresee secondary markets or is it too early for those NFTs. 184 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:37.240 I don't know. Maybe if somebody, I guess, I could obviously resell 185 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:40.519 it to, like say the property owner who may want to plement that NFT. 186 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.000 But I have that Let's say I have the entire neighborhood, right, 187 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:48.960 But then could I lend it out? Is that a possibility yet? That's 188 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:55.319 a great question. We're seeing the first secondary sales of the landmark AI NFTs 189 00:17:55.480 --> 00:18:00.920 on open c There was a Hollywood sign n f T that was sold a 190 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:06.640 couple of weeks ago for one point three e's I believe. For the addresses 191 00:18:06.680 --> 00:18:11.440 and the neighborhoods, I'm not sure how this whole gamification will evolve. For 192 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:17.000 now, what it makes sense is actually to steak those statresses. So if 193 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:23.319 you mint over ten addresses, you can stake all of them at a stake 194 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:33.119 in producol and get a distribution of proper tokens from the entire minting revenue channel. 195 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.039 Oh wow, Well, you know what I'm going to do after this 196 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:41.279 interview, right, Natalia, You're going to I want to go grab up 197 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:48.000 a ton of neighborhoods. And uh and stake them and anybody want fantastic. 198 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.160 So I'm definitely gonna do that. I really want to play around that, 199 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:57.359 and it's just fascinating to me. Now. Recently, you were at a 200 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:02.559 conference and I saw clip of it where you were talking about Amazon and I 201 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:07.920 think Google as well and them potentially getting involved in real estate and tokenization of 202 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.680 real estate and so forth. Can you expand on that and your your thoughts 203 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:17.119 there. Actually I was at a conference called inmand A Connector in New York, 204 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:22.039 and it was all about real estate real just real estate portals and how 205 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:30.480 the residential space is evolving, and many many panels and keynotes were about the 206 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:37.960 attention of home buyers and the war of portals between zelu homes dot com, 207 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:42.160 apartments dot com, realtor dot com. Where are the eyes of the consumers 208 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:49.480 when they are searching for a home? And my argument was that homes dot 209 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:56.799 Com should not spend one hundred million dollars to attract the home buyers for the 210 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:04.279 lead generation business because most likely some of the new startups or the tech platforms 211 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:14.400 such as Amazon or Google could overtake the consumer attention for the real estate. 212 00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:21.039 Because if we figure out the transaction automation. That's Propy's mission. Once the 213 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:26.839 transaction is automated, then the portals and the attention of home buyers. It's 214 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:32.759 the easiest task in the real estate industry to tackle and imagine. If transaction 215 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:40.160 is automated and very secure, why not an Amazon platform just introduces the tab 216 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:45.920 real estate and then you can securely click click, click and buy through Amazon 217 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:52.680 or through Google, all through a new startup or through probit And what I 218 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:57.240 just want one item to add. For example, proper keys could also become 219 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:04.240 this platform to become the new Zelu but global because now they are attracting the 220 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:11.599 eyes the attention of people minting their addresses in a gamified way. But then 221 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:18.480 through the gamified way, the proper keys platform will teach the homeowners on different 222 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:22.200 items, how to sell, how to buy, how to do it on 223 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:30.680 chain. So that's what I meant that the current bottle of portals of realestate 224 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:37.359 portals might be kind of unnecessary. Yeah, a great point, and it's 225 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:41.279 only going to continue to evolve. So it's fascinating. So on that note, 226 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:47.160 are you seeing Look, you've been at this since twenty seventeen, building, 227 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:52.000 innovating and so forth. But we know the traditional industries are going to 228 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:55.039 be slow to adopt. And don't get me wrong, they are adopting. 229 00:21:55.359 --> 00:22:00.559 But have you seen a change in these brokers. Is in the National Realtors 230 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:04.440 Association that they're now maybe having their aha moment, like, oh, we 231 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.960 need to pay attention to this, it's coming. And have you noticed any 232 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:15.119 changes? There? Absolutely so many changes, especially from October when the first 233 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:22.240 fake news about bit counitives broke. First of all, we had a call 234 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:30.640 of one of the major mortgage players in the country, the organization that establishes 235 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:37.680 the rules for the mortgage industry for whether the cryptocurrency statements should be adopted for 236 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:44.119 the mortgage approvals and so on. And they have a whole team already. 237 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.119 They want to adopt, They want to make a proof of concept. And 238 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.319 the question is no longer what is blockchain? The question is please pay attention 239 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:57.400 to us, Please have a call with our team how we get integrated. 240 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:06.000 So we spent probably about ten ten hours of conversations where they beg us to 241 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:11.240 pay attention and find resources for faster integration rather than how it was in the 242 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:15.839 past. Then one of the largest brokerages in the country also just launched a 243 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:21.400 partnership with US Berkshire had Away Home Services of America. For now it's an 244 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:30.920 education platform education Crypto Certified C class with the credit for realtors. But it's 245 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:38.319 a very major point within the Berkshire Hathaway umbrella, which historically has been very 246 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:45.000 against the bitcoint and cryptocurrency. So that's another win. And then there is 247 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:52.119 another very traditional real estate media that has just accepted proper tokens as a form 248 00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:59.359 of payment. So we were very surprised how the industry now is accepting cryptocurrencies 249 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:04.000 payment and not bitquin first, but the properit talken because it's the industry cryptocurrency 250 00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:10.920 that has proven to be a good track record in terms of the project behind 251 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:15.880 it. Oh man, it's fascinating. I think they're having maybe there aha 252 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:21.960 moment right they're waking up to yeah we gotter get on board. Okay, 253 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:23.240 question for you in I don't know if you can answer this, and you 254 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:30.759 poly say I can't answer it. But if redfin if Zillow or realtor dot 255 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:34.359 com or somebody came alongside Natalent, we want to buy properly because you see, 256 00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:41.160 this is the direction things they're going, what would you say, Well, 257 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:44.960 first of all, I would never sell well never say no, never, 258 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:52.359 but I would not sell to a current realisted player. That's why they're 259 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:59.039 not in the top ten or twenty platforms on the stock market because they cannot 260 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:04.480 be the innov that will transform the relisted industry. Secondly, we would never 261 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:10.160 sell to a brokerage because a brokerage is just one side of a transaction. 262 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:14.559 They cannot automate the transaction. You have to be on both sides of the 263 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:19.640 transaction. Our realtor dot com or zero dot com. They are very limited 264 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:26.160 to the US market. It's a business model that works precisely for the US 265 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:32.559 market, while we figured out a business model that could work globally, and 266 00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:37.839 so none of those companies would be interesting for US. And we indeed have 267 00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:42.160 a lot of requests for acquisitions through last cycles, not even now, from 268 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:49.519 all the best the brokerages and portals and software companies related to real estate. 269 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:56.279 But I can totally see us to entertain ideas with some tech platforms such as 270 00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:03.880 Google, Amazon, those that I mentioned before who have the attention, not 271 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:10.319 attention, But I would say technology resources, Yeah, that makes sense. 272 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:15.759 Well, you know, I know everybody usually tries to get acquired by Googles 273 00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:19.079 and so forth. But it makes sense because you are certainly ahead of the 274 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:25.920 curve and an outlier in the real estate industry because you're doing these fourthinking, 275 00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:32.519 innovative initiatives. So that's really great. Let's see, you know, let's 276 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:36.079 continue to real estate conversation. We'll circle back to crypto. I would love 277 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.640 to get your take on the real estate market and what's happening in the US. 278 00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:42.599 With rates very high, people are not really selling because many got low 279 00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:48.359 rates, and then it's a tough economy, right, what is your outlook 280 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.200 for this year, maybe twenty twenty five. Well, of course, the 281 00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:59.920 main player in the real estate industrum right now is the interest rate problem. 282 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:04.759 So I expect there to be some FED interest rate cuts, very modest, 283 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:11.839 maybe in the middle of this year, and then the market may recover. 284 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:18.799 And if the FED does not take this path, then of course we'll see 285 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:26.920 even more stagnation in the real estate market. The most significant change and challenges 286 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:32.599 are happening now in the commercial real estate, which has more leverage in construction 287 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:38.400 and development the transaction though last year they fall only twenty percent down right, 288 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:45.160 even though the stock market and a lot of industries have fallen up to seventy 289 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:51.920 percent, sixty percent, Crypto eighty percent. But the transaction volume in the 290 00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:56.880 real estate industry, in the reiditional Aeralsted industry have not fallen drastically or stopped 291 00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:03.960 because people still have to make their changes in lives, divorces, marriages, 292 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:08.960 downsizing, moving, and so on, so the transactions will continue to to 293 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:18.079 be there. But then we have this news with our settlement, the commission 294 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.880 may drop this year, which is obviously might be great for the consumer, 295 00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:30.519 but the real the realtor community is devastated. Yeah, so I wanted to 296 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.599 ask you about that. It's, uh, you think that's going to go 297 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:38.519 through? And it's man, it maybe realtors, like you said, are 298 00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:41.759 not going to be as incentivized to work is hard maybe I don't know, 299 00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:47.759 or become more competitive. I don't know what's going to happen, but I 300 00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:52.519 think that's going to help. Well, the real do community will work even 301 00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:57.240 harder than they have been right now, and you will see uh, the 302 00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:03.440 non professional part time ters leaving the space because the fees for the license are 303 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.920 expensive. So in fact, probably will see a higher quality of realters staying 304 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:15.200 in the market. Yet, of course they are very very frustrated, but 305 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:23.400 I think they will fight more for the consumer, especially the buyer. So 306 00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:30.680 the seller will remain with two point five percent, they may request an additional 307 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:36.400 one percent or half percent from the consumer because now they have to deal with 308 00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:41.799 more buyers. Personally, more buyers will come on the market without having a 309 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:49.319 representation and thus now the listing agent will probably have to deal with them. 310 00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:56.640 And then the platforms like properly and other platforms will occur, will be introduced 311 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:02.119 that will have the will help the buyer to through this process easier. But 312 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:07.839 there is one good news for realtors and for the consumers. It is their 313 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:15.759 increased liquidity now that the transaction is more and more automated through platforms like Propery. 314 00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:22.480 We're very passionate to achieve this better affordability. Ten percent of the value 315 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.119 is lost now in those fees, ten percent of home value. So imagine 316 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:32.359 normally you need five percent in down payment, but instead you have to pay 317 00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:37.759 the mortgage fees, title escrow, the title insurance, the commission. And 318 00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.240 thus even the new generation when they move, they're afraid to acquire a home 319 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:48.480 where they cannot afford it, but as all the fees are decreasing than any 320 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:53.039 time the new generation move from one city to another city instead of renting, 321 00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:57.640 they would be more inclined to sell it and buy a new one because the 322 00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:07.000 fees are lower and we will get rid of the bureaucracy. See, I 323 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:10.640 wanted to ask you about because you have a great perspective there. So let's 324 00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:15.039 switch back to crypto. What are your thoughts on the Bitcoin SPOTTYTF launches and 325 00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:21.640 the performances. The inflows have been pretty incredible. Absolutely. I think BITCOINITYFS 326 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:30.519 is the most significant marketing campaign for the blockchain industry. All those eleven bitquinity 327 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:40.440 F vehicles have been very serious in attracting the Wall Street investors to the space, 328 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.680 both institutional investors as well as retail investors, and I think they've been 329 00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:52.160 very successful. Of course, this initial gray scale sale off was very harmful 330 00:31:52.200 --> 00:32:00.000 and warring for all of us. But nevertheless, now is it over twenty 331 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:05.599 billion dollars in flows? Yeah, it just keeps going up every day, 332 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:10.440 so I think it's around there. Yes, it's incredible, and it's probably 333 00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:20.920 the bitquinity F approval is comparable to the telecommunication Act of nineteen ninety six for 334 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:25.240 the Internet. So when the Internet was still in the gray area, it's 335 00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:34.200 this Telecommunication Act of nineteen ninety six that made the Internet kind of legitimized, 336 00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:43.400 and it gave the opportunity for commercial use cases to come on Internet, and 337 00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:51.359 it provided the nest for infrastructure competition, different ways to get on Internet by 338 00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:57.799 serious companies. Now, with the Bitpoint TFS, we have invited the Wall 339 00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:05.519 Street community to invest in bitcoin without having the headache of setting up wallets and 340 00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:12.519 keeping the private keys and worry about custody. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's 341 00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.920 fascinating and I can't wait for it to go beyond Bitcoin. Maybe that'll happen 342 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.920 later this year with Ethereum, and then eventually, you know, other all 343 00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:24.960 coins and all coin baskets will have to wait and see. You know, 344 00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:29.839 what are you most excited about for this upcoming cycle? What we are in 345 00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:34.480 a bull market cycle right now, and it's certainly different. Bigcoin is ahead 346 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.240 of schedule, We get the ETFs and much more. What are you most 347 00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:43.720 excited about for this cycle? Oh, that's a good question. Well at 348 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:51.319 if Denver, of course, I think there are there were about four trends 349 00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:59.839 that most of investors have talked and entertained about. That's the bitcoin derivatives, 350 00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:07.079 of course, driven by bitcoin ATF's news. Then it's RWA's real world assets 351 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:13.639 and loans and real estate and mechanization and so on. That's the second one. 352 00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:21.440 Then that's a deep in where we will see more real life infrastructure projects 353 00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:29.119 come into on chain. That was super super exciting. And what next? 354 00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:34.599 And fourth, I'm kind of blanking right now, but these were the most 355 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:42.440 exciting new projects. I'm also hearing a lot about midpoints, which personally I 356 00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:49.320 cannot grasp why it would be the big trend of twenty twenty four. Hopefully 357 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:58.679 other trends will win and we'll again see more utility and real life applications. 358 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:04.519 So I would say after bit quantity of approval is the biggest news, and 359 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:08.360 then the Duncan upgrade is the second biggest news in the hour in the crypto 360 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:15.079 industry. I hope that the next big exciting thing will be something around real 361 00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:22.960 life applications, whether it's car applications like Demo, whether it's dippy in smart 362 00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:30.599 cities being connected and scaling through blockchain. Also, I'm super excited about the 363 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:37.000 base community now that we've been building on base and interacting with the coin based 364 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:44.880 ecosystem broadly. I just can see and appreciate the value of the community and 365 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:52.519 the community of developers and executors in one ecosystem. So that's also another item. 366 00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:57.519 I'm excited a lot in twenty twenty four. Yeah, for sure, 367 00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:01.880 it's exciting times. Natalia is always a pleasure, and as I said it 368 00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:06.280 before, after this, I'm about to go check out proper keys and mint 369 00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:10.800 some addresses and starts taking really great stuff. Thank you so much for joining 370 00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:14.960 me. Thank you, Tony. It was a pleasure as always. Thank 371 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:15.559 you so much.