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Welcome to episode fifty four of Get
Out, a live a podcast where me

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your host Ashley every other week tell
us your new animal tech story, and

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me your other host Nick. I
have nothing to say. We're recording on

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a new thing today. We're recording
on a new new mixer. Yeah.

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If we sound different, it's because
we're physically together for the first time in

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a long time recording this. Usually
we do it remote. Yeah, so

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we're gonna be going through a little
bit of learning process, but sounds good

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so far. Yeah. I mean, like when we start the podcast,

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we recorded together, we just had
worse equipment. What's gonna be really fun

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about this is gonna be a lot
more like quick with our responses and cutting

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each other off. Yeah, that'll
be fun. Now we can look at

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each other while we yell at each
other. I mean normally we do,

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it's just over more of a distance. Can phasically hate you exactly. Now

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you can throw stuff at me,
which is dangerous. Yeah. Perfect,

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And I just want to say the
reason that we're able to get better equipment

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is because of patrons who listened to
the show and support the show on patreon

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dot com slash gett a live podcast
No we spent a big portionary day to

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day going out and getting the new
gifts form for our quarterly gifts. Yes,

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Nick and I thought about all of
you. We always trying to make

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the gifts really thoughtful, so we
truly thought of each of you as we

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picked the seeds individually. Yeah,
yeah, we're gonna be writing notes to

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all of you, so keep an
eye out for that. If you're an

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expert survivalist at the highest tier,
did we tell them that we're getting seeds?

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Yep? Oh nice, Yeah,
I knew that. I'm definitely on

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the Patreon Nick is really just supports
this so much. I am great at

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morally supporting you. Yeah, well, you did hit me with the stuffed

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animal target today. I did hit
you with the stuffed analet target today,

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and then you asked me why I
was starting shit with you. Correct like

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you could just let me hit you
and move on, but no, Yeah,

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I had to fight back from it. It's always the first who swings

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second that gets in trouble. Anyways, thank you all once again at patreon

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dot com, slash get a Live
for supporting us, and yeah, otherwise

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we're just gonna get right into it
this week. We are going back to

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Nick's request, mountain goats and big
horn sheep. Hell yes, and look

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at you. You were in a
a sweatshirt with a what is that mountain

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goat or all this is? This
is a mountain goat. They got like

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chicken wings for legs, according to
the drawing on my shirt from Glacier National

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Park. So it's official. Yeah. So when I went to Glacier,

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Oh my god, I feel like
I mentioned that trip so much on this

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podcast, but I went to talk
about freaking seventy stone every episode. It

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is relevant. Yeah. Yeah,
So I went to Glacier, and I

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guess the reason I wore this other
than the fact that I wanted to like

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rip the animal. And this is
one of the odds I have a piece

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of clothing with a mountain goat on
it, of all things. It's a

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great sweatshirt. So when we went
to Glacier, me and my family,

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the way that you can see mountain
goats there is you have to drive to

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the top of like drive to the
very top of the going to the Sun

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road, which is only available to
drive like certain times of the year because

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otherwise there's so much snow and it's
way too dangerous. But another reason I

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wanted to wear it was to point
out the fact that, you know,

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we're talking about conservation issues for these
animals and like they live in such you

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know, difficult terrain to get to
and them being habituated to people is not

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good for them. I literally couldn't
even hike that trail. We got up

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at like five in the morning to
go hike it because there were so many

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people. We could not find parking
and glacier. I mean all I guess

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all the national parks have had such
an uptick in people since COVID that we

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literally couldn't even I couldn't even go
inside the gift shop because there was no

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place to park for like twenty minutes
and we just gave up. So think

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of that amount of people, and
this was the off season at like five

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in the morning going to see the
mountain goats, that is thousands and thousands

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of people. So that's another issue
they have. Yeah, it's really surrounded

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by people. Yeah, the trail
that I would see them on sometimes in

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Josh Root Trail, think I saw
them three or four times in talking Abou

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mountain goats. Yah, yeah,
yes, sorry, you know, same

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episode. So they when like the
times that I saw them, like same

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thing was on trails that were like
super popular with people, and we're yeah,

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there was always people there. Yeah, so it makes sense why they

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can habituated people, you know somehow. Like all the hiking I did and

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Josh Tree with my my really nice
camera, I never once got a photo

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of them. Never once. That's
frustrating. Yeah, yeah, I'm so

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sad that I went all the way
Glacier and like didn't even to see a

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mountain go like unicorns. We got
to see a prong horn, and uh,

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I love me a prong horn.
Yet, yeah, I saw a

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pronghorn in Grand Tetons. I was. I got out of the car.

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I did not run after them,
of course, but I was like,

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oh my god, I was so
excited. I didn't know they were cool.

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I had no idea that there were
no idea. Yeah, like we

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we none of us really knew.
Like we were kind of driving along and

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like someone like looked out the corner
of the window and they're on the side

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of a mountain there, coming down
a hill and he was like, whoa

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man, that's a species I should
have looked into for this episode. Did

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they kill me? But no,
oh well, yeah I tried. Anyways,

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they're really cool look at They're really
good to look at. There's on

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the animals that I always assume is
African, and I want to hear that

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they are an American species. It
really full. Yeah you hear antelope and

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you don't think of yeah America exactly, yeah exactly. Yeah, but hey,

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they evolved to live around the North
American cheetah, which is now extinct,

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so they can run a ridiculous speed
for no reason. Yeah, it's

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outrun wolves, guess yeah, like
realistically, or wolve's even a national predator

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for them. They can catch them
if the thing is like sick or like

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a baby maybe, but otherwise like
giant pack of wolves. Thank god,

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yeah, massive, good luck.
So did you do you still have the

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same preparation that you did before?
Yeah, the exact same preparation. Okay,

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perfect. Yeah. So, however, because these animals don't usually kill

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people, I've turned this episode into
what I'm calling unruly undulates because we love

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the word undulates. It's a great
word. It's a great word. It

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taught me when I was like eighteen, and I've been all about it ever

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since. And now you all are
all about it, so we're gonna just

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jump right in. And if you
are new here or haven't heard the word

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undulate before, undulate are generally large
mammals with hooves, and they're divided into

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two groups. So you've got your
odd toed undulates, which is also known

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as parisa dactyla, and that includes
horses, rhinos, tape ears, among

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other things. And then you have
even toad undulates, also known as aardiodactyla,

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which includes cows, pigs, sheep, giraffes, deer, and hippos.

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Hipposuff hoofs. Technically, I guess
really, Oh well, what I'm

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about to say is going to shock
you even more. Cetaceans are part of

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Audiodactyla. What are citations? Cetaceans
are whales, dolphins, and no shit,

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porpoises, yes, any hooves.
I know they got flippers, it's

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not wild nuts. Well, I
guess. So the reason that they're lumped

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into this category because this was the
first time I realized this, I guess,

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and I threw a pole out on
Twitter and I was like is this

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real? And everyone was like yes, I mean you could google it and

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not put out a pole like there's
been funny. I did find out on

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Google, but I was like,
I want to ask people who actually know

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what they're talking about. Could Google
could be anybody? Could be anyone?

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Oh my god, what if it
was me? I wasn't. I'm gonna

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start on editing Wikipedia pages. Don't
think you can do that anymore. That's

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probably for the best. Anyways.
So cetaceans the way that they've so whales,

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dolphin, porpoises. Also, because
we're recording in person, you were

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at my house. I've got two
dogs that click clack around, so you're

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any click clacking or any slurp,
and that's what that is. I also

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have a cat next to me that
may attack me at some point. Yeah.

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She is unpredictable, and she is
adorable. And the touch of so

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soft and she hates it. Oh
she doesn't like it. Yep. Yeah,

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maybe stop concentus key nick oh.
Also speaking of stuff, I guess

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happy Pride month. Thanks congratulations to
you on your Pride month. I guess

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thank you so much. Nature is
gay, so am I moving on?

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So cetaceans evolved from sea creatures,
as most things did when on land,

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were like, nah, this shit
sucks. And then went back to the

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ocean. So the reason that they're
grouped into audiodactyl is because they share common

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ancestors. That makes these animals.
Yeah, and cetaceans are most related to

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hippos. No shitetically yep, I
guess, yeah, I guess that makes

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sense. Yeah, big fat marine
mammal. Yeah, I guess I'd call

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hips more like an aquatic. Yeah, okay, cool in my mind that

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marine and aquatic would be the same
thing. Marines like ocean. Well,

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when I was in the marines,
oh here, I was in the desert.

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So yeah. So Also, some
people use the term set audiodactyla to

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differentiate, so like cetations, they
just put like cet in front of audiodactyla.

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Goatcha. That's not like an official
thing. That's kind of like no,

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and like ardiodactyl and parisa dactyla aren't
even official anyways, Stop trying to

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pet the cats. Sorry, I'm
sorry, I'm sorry, she's saying next

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to me, so clearly she's going
to keep fighting you. God like it.

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So the first species that we're going
to talk about is bigcorn. Cheap

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Yes, have you seen bigcorn?
I have seen big horns? Sheep in

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my life multiple times. Really yeah, good for you. So some really

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cool stuff, you know some I'm
in Joshtreet National Parks. I'm on the

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Marine Corps base. When we're flying
around a helicopter we uh no, we

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were flying to a radio tower out
in the middle of nowhere and they were

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like a bunch of cheap on mountains, so we like chase them around the

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helicopters. One that's cool. Well
yeah, yeah, So I think the

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base actually drops water out there for
them because it's like such a room area

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there's like no water. Wow.
Yeah, so they helicopter in water.

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The helicopters are like, oh yeah, oh cute, yeah wow nice,

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okay cool. So the scientific name
for bighorn sheep is Ovis canadensis. They're

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one of two species of wild sheep
in North America, with the other being

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the doll sheep that lives in more
arctic regions. Is that like the white

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one with the pointy horns and so
they're the round horns or no, that's

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mountain goats. Oh, those are
mountain goats. Yeah, but I'll be

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completely honest, I have no idea
what the different from the mountain goat and

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the sheep are. Yeah, so
I'm gonna describe it to you. But

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doll sheep are like they have sheep
horns like bighorn sheep, but they're also

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white. So sometimes they can be
a little bit confused with the mountain goat,

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but they are different. Are you
googling it right now? Yeall?

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Doll d l Well have never got
that right of all the ways it was

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spelled doll. That's that's the last
dale. I mean, it's just like

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doll, but with an A instead
of O. So, just because I

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sometimes also confuse them with mountain goats, bighorn sheep are muscular and have short,

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chocolate brown fur with some white on
their muzzle butt in belly. They're

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yoked out. Oh yeah, when
you get nearer one like they are.

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They are some thick motherfuckers. So
they've got wide set eyes similar to a

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domestic goat or sheep, and their
horns are large and curved back. And

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their horns alone can weigh up to
thirty pounds or fourteen kilograms. Yeah,

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yeah, you have to. You
gonna need a thick neck to carry that

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on all day, you know.
Yeah. Males weigh around three hundred and

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fifty pounds or one hundred and fifty
nine kilograms, and females weigh between one

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hundred and sixty to two hundred fifty
pounds or seventy three to one thirteen kilgrims,

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which is a lot. Yeah,
those are those are big animals.

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Yeah, even on the lower end, they're all like significantly heavier than me.

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No, it's crazy when you think
of like heavy animals, you think

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of like bears and like fucking hippos
and shit, like they're all kind of

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blubbery and fat. There's no fat
on these animals like they are. Yeah,

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they are shredded well. Also,
doesn't muscle way more than fat?

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Way more? Yeah, way more, way more? Yes. Yeah,

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and these things are oh yeah,
like I said, thick boys built.

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Oh yeah, I admire them so
much, good as you should. They're

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also not considered as agile as mountain
goats though, but they're still great at

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climbing steep terrain yep. And they
can be on ledges as small as two

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inches or five centimeters wide. Fuck
isn't that wild? Why would you want

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to do that? Because you're a
goat? Sorry? True, because you're

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a sheep? Oh yes, I
mean the goats also can be on a

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ledge small small but smaller ledges probably
Yeah, So I guess now is a

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good time to mention it. But
similar to last episode, I'm going to

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plug another episode of Ologies with Ali
Ward. There's an episode called I'm gonna

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plug two up in this episode,
but the first one is Bovine Neuropathology with

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Nicole Ackerman's and it's all about headbutting, specifically of bovine. So they talk

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a lot about bitcorn sheep, and
in that episode or in the other episode

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I'm going to talk about they have
a quote that's like sheep go where humans

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can't go, and goats go where
sheep can't go. So like mountain goats

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are just way the fuck up there, I can't reach. Have you ever

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seen any videos of like sheep punts, not cheap punts, but I've seen

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them like run down they are like
they are madness, they're really cool,

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full expeditions, like out in the
middle of fucking nowhere and they're shooting like

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across canyons. Like yeah, we'll
get into that. I mean, Also,

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that's what Jeremy did. That's what
Jermy was doing. Here is on

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was he sheephunter or a goat hunt. I think he was big horn sheep

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punting as he was attacked by the
grizzly Yeah. Anyways, so big horn

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sheep are listed as Least concern and
the IUCN Red List says that there's around

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forty nine thousand mature individuals that I
feel like that's a good number. Yeah,

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00:12:30,639 --> 00:12:33,519
it's great. Yeah, it's not
least concerned. Yeah. Yeah.

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They are found in North America,
but populations in Mexico have not been studied

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as much as the US and Canada, so they do exist like throughout.

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00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:43,440
So big horn sheep mostly eat grass, but their diets do vary a lot

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across their entire range, which makes
so much sense because they can be in

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Canada and also Mexico, so like
not eating the same stuff, and males

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and females are typically separated unless it's
the running season. So the ret time

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period also depends on where the sheep
is living in the world. So,

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for example, according to Big Horn
Institut, Desert bighorn sheep are between August

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00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:07,879
November and Rocky Mountain and California's sheep
ruts are between October and January, so

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pretty much just like later in the
year. Yeah, every time I've ever

220
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,440
seen him, they've been grouped up, So I wonder I don't remember specifically

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what time of year that was,
but I assume it was all during the

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rut. Yeah, which it makes
sense too, because like they were not

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going to be around people as much
when they're more solid to Oh yeah,

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00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:26,399
of course solitary and males will hang
out in groups of five to fifty individuals,

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and females will form like nursery groups
ranging from five to one hundred individuals

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that includes adult females, lambs and
young males. Female staff horns two right,

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00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:37,639
yes, but not as like,
not as pronounced. Yeah, they've

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got like more nubbins rather than the
big like curled back classic big horn sheep.

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Look. Oh yeah, and when
you find the one who's in charge,

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when you find the big boy,
the big boy, you know,

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you know right away, like he's
like in charge that you fucking watches over

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the whole group and everything. Yeah, it's sick. Yeah, it's pretty

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cool. Nature nature motherfuckers. So
they also typically have different summer and winter

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ranges, and males will especially wander
long distances up to sixty kilometers for females

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that are open to breeding nice.
Yeah, consent is key. Consent is

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key. Don't travel sixty kilometers for
consent to open female. And when males

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00:14:15,759 --> 00:14:18,639
compete at the rut, they run
at each other at speeds of up to

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forty miles an hour or sixty four
kilometers. Get your fucking bell rung per

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00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:26,039
hour. I said just kilometers,
they'll run out sixty four kilometers. I

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00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,360
meant kilometers. They run for sixty
kilometers. Yeah, they run sixty four

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00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:35,080
kilometers straight. And this is the
classic. Like if you see sheep looking

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00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,879
animals head butting, it's these big
horn sheep. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:41,279
that's the stereotype. Yeah. And
the soald that's made from them hitting

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00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:45,480
their horns together can be heard for
up to mile away. Do you know,

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00:14:45,639 --> 00:14:48,600
doll sheep do the whole thing,
the head butting. That's a great

246
00:14:48,679 --> 00:14:50,759
question, I would have, gre
up. I would assume if they have

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00:14:50,799 --> 00:14:54,559
the horns and they're like a close
relative to big corn sheep. No,

248
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,120
I'm with you. Yeah, yeah, So that's if this is something that

249
00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:01,519
you're interested in, Like here more
about the headbutting and stuff. I highly

250
00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:05,799
recommend that episode of Ologies the Bovine
Neuropathology. But I'm gonna give a few

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00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,320
highlights from that episode. So a
few really interesting things I found were For

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00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:15,000
a long time, everyone just assumed
that bighorn sheep didn't get concussions, which

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00:15:15,039 --> 00:15:18,519
is an interesting thing to think when
you have something to smashing its brain against

254
00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:22,480
another wall, when you have literally
no evidence. Yeah, yeah, it's

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00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,799
probably that's probably how it works.
No one's ever looked at a sheep's brain.

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00:15:26,039 --> 00:15:28,840
Yeah, So the guest in that
episode, Nicole Ackermans, is literally

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the first person to ever investigate it, so she had to do a lot

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00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,799
of pioneering of different techniques to figure
out how to answer it, and she

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00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:39,639
did bighorn sheep and muskox, who
also ram heads. So I'm also going

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00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:43,440
to link to her study in the
show notes, and it was titled evidence

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00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:48,320
of traumatic brain injury and headbutting Bovids, and her preliminary finding showed that muskox

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00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:54,200
and bighorn cheap do indeed suffer from
chronic or cute brain trauma, and what

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00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,960
may protect them from more intense trauma
is basically their thick skulls. Yeah,

264
00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:00,639
so my takeaway was, yes,
in some species, males having a fixed

265
00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:04,639
skull is beneficial. I think in
all species. That is a good thing

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00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:07,200
to have, you never it's just
you know, for safety of the brain,

267
00:16:07,399 --> 00:16:11,399
that's why. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, I've

268
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:12,399
knocked my head around a few times. I have a prethext skull. I'm

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00:16:12,399 --> 00:16:18,799
not sure if anyone knew that never
been concussed, not once, certainly I

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00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,240
remember all of them. And when
her and like the Nicole Ackerman's and Ali

271
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,120
were talking about it, Ali was
like, you know, why would they

272
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,279
evolve to still have brain trauma?
And Nicole was like, I think it

273
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,080
just doesn't matter because like by the
time it would affect them, they just

274
00:16:33,159 --> 00:16:36,840
die anyways. Like they're not a
very long way species. Like if you

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00:16:36,919 --> 00:16:38,679
look into like a fucking sheep's eyes, like there's not a lot going on

276
00:16:38,799 --> 00:16:41,960
there anyway. Like even no they
like domestic sheep, obviously, they're just

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00:16:42,039 --> 00:16:47,559
fucking nothing. There's nothing there.
There's like two brain cells exactly. They're

278
00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:49,200
fighting with each other. Yeah,
and the wild ones don't seem too too

279
00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:52,879
much different. Doesn't seem like there's
a lot of emotion behind those things.

280
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,720
Yeah, that's fair, I'll give
you that. Yeah. And I also

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00:16:56,799 --> 00:16:59,960
to throw this in somewhere because it
really blew my mind in that episod.

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00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,319
So they also reveal you know how
I said that cetaceans are part of the

283
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,000
audiodactyla, even toad unngulia group.
No sure for that. They also head

284
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:11,000
butt. Oh yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, I listen to the

285
00:17:11,039 --> 00:17:12,319
same episode. Yeah I remember that
now. Yeah, whales head butt,

286
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,519
dolphins head but each other. That's
crazy, Which I feel like we knew

287
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:18,000
that a little bit about that way
the workers, right, they been they've

288
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,359
been knocking stuff the heads. That's
true. They do head but each other.

289
00:17:21,559 --> 00:17:22,359
Yeah, but I didn't know that, like in the wild that was

290
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,319
the thing they commonly do to like
fight. Yeah, that's like a dominance

291
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:27,920
thing. I don't know. They're
like they didn't go into it too too

292
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,759
much. Yeah, she was like, yeah, there's videos of them just

293
00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:33,799
jumping out of the water and dash
each other's heads, fucking two dolphins flying

294
00:17:33,839 --> 00:17:36,680
through the air, just crashing into
each other and knock and melons. It's

295
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,319
pretty bad ass though. Yeah.
So, although bighorn sheep are considered least

296
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,799
concerned, they still do face some
issues, and the biggest one probably is

297
00:17:42,839 --> 00:17:48,000
epizoonotics, which is basically the word
that we use for an epidemic and non

298
00:17:48,079 --> 00:17:52,519
human animals, epizoonotics, and the
biggest concern between all, like the epizoonotic

299
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:57,400
potentials is pneumonia and mange, and
this happens when they come in contact with

300
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,799
domestic sheep and goats, and pneumonia
that they can tracked from domestic sheep can

301
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:07,079
kill an entire herd of big horn
sheep, which has been recorded in California

302
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,160
and Washington according to a nineteen eighty
two study. So it's a really big

303
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:11,920
deal. Yeah, they get it. Yeah. I saw an article about

304
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,759
that and it was like the area
that I was in in California and it

305
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,039
was like where twenty other sheep were
found dead. Oh, like oh fuck,

306
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,480
Yeah, it sucks. Sometimes poaching
does happen to large trophy males,

307
00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:26,880
even within national parks, which is
a huge no no. But this doesn't

308
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,319
threaten their overall population, which is
good. And this was a bigger threat

309
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,240
to them in the nineteenth century,
but their numbers have recovered thanks to wildlife

310
00:18:33,279 --> 00:18:37,720
management and conservation efforts. And in
Canada, big horn sheep have experienced a

311
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:41,319
genetic consequence due to hunting, so
now males have smaller horns. Oh no

312
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,440
shit, yeah, because people they
kicked the males with the big horns.

313
00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:48,160
Yeah, yeah, shit, yep, that's pretty cool. I think that's

314
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,559
a similar thing happening in Africa,
where obviously the elephants are the biggest tusks

315
00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:55,960
were taken for ivory, so now
like they're continuing to have smaller and smaller

316
00:18:56,039 --> 00:18:56,720
tusks. Yeah, maybe I'm making
that up, but that sounds like a

317
00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:00,640
thing that It absolutely sounds like a
thing. What makes sense, I suit

318
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,440
I could see that with like most
animals, Like if you had align with

319
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,559
a big main Yeah, if I
was a trophy on right, I want

320
00:19:06,599 --> 00:19:10,200
that one. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, if I was killing animals illegally

321
00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:14,519
in for funk correctly, yeah yeah. And then specifically in Mexico, a

322
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:18,319
habitat degradation fragmentation is a bigger issue
for them, as well as competition with

323
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,880
domestic livestock. So now to get
into the attack portion, which is really

324
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,680
nothing because to be fully honest,
they really don't attack people, which is

325
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,920
good. You know, I really
thought they were a lot more dangerous than

326
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,480
they are. They look it,
right, they look at Yeah, absolutely.

327
00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:36,240
I mean there's plenty of videos of
like people in Colorado, for example,

328
00:19:36,279 --> 00:19:38,599
pulling up on herd the man.
The man the male sheep just like

329
00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:41,720
runs at them and bashes their car. But it's not like they're killing people.

330
00:19:41,839 --> 00:19:45,359
Yeah, they've never really even like
gone well I shouldn't say've never.

331
00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:49,599
It's hard to find examples of them
charging people at all. Well, let

332
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,759
me tell you one story. So
the most recent I could find was from

333
00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:57,279
Cedar Hills, Utah, and there
was a group of sheep that were known

334
00:19:57,319 --> 00:20:00,240
to the area that would frequent the
local golf club in the winter or would

335
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,559
come around town and search water.
I did see this near the end of

336
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,640
March or early April in twenty fifteen. The local water spring was dried up

337
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,480
and they were coming around, which
was like early for them to be in

338
00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:15,519
the area, And normally the sheep
were not a problem, which I'm assuming

339
00:20:15,599 --> 00:20:18,319
similar to like white tail deer here
in New England, Like they're just they're

340
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,359
just kind of the exists, but
they don't do a whole lot. That

341
00:20:21,519 --> 00:20:23,880
being said, I did just post
a video to our Facebook page of a

342
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,359
white tail deer absolutely wrecking dogs.
Oh yeah, did you watch it?

343
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,400
No? I did not, as
the one that's like stepping on the dogs.

344
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,240
I've seen a lot of videos of
white it's two videos like clumped together

345
00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:37,559
of deer jumping or running through fences
and just yeah, absolutely beating a crap

346
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,519
out of dogs. It is horrifying
to watch. Yeah, that's like why

347
00:20:41,559 --> 00:20:44,240
I assumed that they were so much
more dangerous than they are. That's why

348
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,039
I assumed the sheep were much more
dangerous because they're way beefier than a deer,

349
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:49,640
And I assumed that there would be
tougher in the rut because he seemed

350
00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:52,799
bashing heads into shit, Like,
yeah, I would think that they've if

351
00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:56,119
I walked up on a group of
female sheep and there was a male with

352
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,640
them, the male be like,
huh, I'm coming for your motherfucking asse.

353
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:02,759
He never did. No, that's
I mean, good for you.

354
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,160
I'm happy for you. I was
always very safe around them. I was

355
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,519
never fucking around with them. Only
with bears. Okay, that's one time.

356
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,599
It was only one time. When
did you fuck around with the bear?

357
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:12,680
I really fuck around with it?
Oh? Is that yo, Samity?

358
00:21:12,799 --> 00:21:15,079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're
part of the problem anyways. In

359
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,599
June of twenty fifteen, a two
year old male bighorn sheep was euthanized for

360
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,480
showing abnormally aggressive behavior what was doing
so June is outside of their typical runting

361
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,920
season, which is in November in
that area, so it was weird for

362
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,319
him to be aggressive at all.
But this mail was chasing golfers at a

363
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,400
local golf course and would challenge cars
and even houses. And there's a video

364
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,599
of him on YouTube headbutting someone's glass
door. So did do you have more

365
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,720
of a story with that glass door, because I just read something on that

366
00:21:41,759 --> 00:21:45,000
Okay. So he had many separate
instances of property damage, including a garage

367
00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:49,720
door breaking, breaking a tail light, and broke a window. So specifically

368
00:21:49,759 --> 00:21:52,799
the person that took the video of
him hitting the glass door on YouTube,

369
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,519
they called local animal control who could
not scare him away even with rockets or

370
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:03,559
rubber bullets. It's a badass,
fucking sheep. So for days, this

371
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,400
male returned to this house and would
just hit their door and they had no

372
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,400
idea why it. Even biologis were
like, I don't know. And when

373
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,440
he broke a window in the back
of their house, it was the last

374
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:17,440
straw. So the Division of Wildlife
Resources stepped in and euthanized the ram.

375
00:22:18,079 --> 00:22:22,200
And they had originally tried to get
a local archery hunter to harvest it because

376
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,079
it's a once in a lifetime chance
and Utah to hunt a big horn sheep.

377
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,960
But that would require getting the ram
out of the town and having the

378
00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:33,160
hunter encountered the exact correct ram.
So the DWR just captured it and euthanized

379
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,440
it themselves. Would it be easier
just to give the guy a pass to

380
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,319
go shoot in some guy's backyard.
No, that's just I feel like it

381
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,240
would be. I think they were
trying to be nice, to be like,

382
00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:45,400
hey, let's give the opportunity to
somebody get a house. I understand

383
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,640
like why they were doing that,
but it's also like if that at a

384
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,160
fucking golf course, just give the
dude his bone and his bowe. Well,

385
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,160
I think it was like more he
was at the house, so you'd

386
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,799
be shooting at a house with a
bow and arrow. Yeah. Still,

387
00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,599
yeah, they were kids present.
I mean, you have the family leave

388
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,359
while you're doing this. It's not
that's the same day. I mean,

389
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,240
this freaking sheep was banging on the
door of this house for like days,

390
00:23:07,519 --> 00:23:10,359
weeks. It was every day at
seven am. It's like how they wake

391
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,599
up every day, is the sheep
banging on the window. Anyways, they

392
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,240
did ane cropsy on this sheep,
which revealed nothing that's weird. Yeah,

393
00:23:18,279 --> 00:23:22,079
they said he was quote just an
ordinary teenager, just mad at reflections.

394
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,559
Maybe maybe yeah, just a little. Maybe maybe he had some brain damage

395
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,279
from knocking his head around too much. It would make sense, wouldn't it.

396
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,640
Yeah, yeah, getting some behavior
changes. Yeah, if you get

397
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,119
like two messed up, yeah for
sure, or the bad brain. That's

398
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:38,359
wh Nicole Ackerman's was saying. She
was like, you know, there's no

399
00:23:38,599 --> 00:23:41,759
evidence of like what is normal behavior
in these animals, or like what would

400
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:45,480
be abnormal if they had a concussion, because no one's been able to like

401
00:23:45,559 --> 00:23:48,319
really study that or there hasn't really
been interest to study that. So even

402
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,759
if it was knocked around a lot
and acting weird, like, we don't

403
00:23:51,799 --> 00:23:55,119
know what weird h it would be. You can't see it at a point

404
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,319
of it's life when it hasn't bang. He can't do like an MRI on

405
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,359
a live sheet. No, so
pretty cool though, it would be really

406
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,960
cool if you could get one dead. Maybe do that for like a master's

407
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:08,759
program. Start MRI and sheep nom
set. You have a lot of fun.

408
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:11,720
Thank you, I'll help you.
Well, No, that's okay.

409
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,640
Otherwise, like I said, there's
virtually no attacks from big horn sheep on

410
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,160
people, None that I could find
that led to the death of a person.

411
00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:21,839
So just like every other wild animal, give them space, but especially

412
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,599
give them space in the running season, and you should be okay. Just

413
00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:26,599
I assume everything's going to try and
kill me during the rut. Yeah,

414
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,000
I think it's safe to assume that
most things will attack you, So just

415
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:32,440
lead them alone. Yeah, yeah, give it space. Yeah, even

416
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,279
Canada geese give them space. Fuck
those things. So now let's get to

417
00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:40,960
mountain goats. So once again I
will be plugging the ologies podcast. If

418
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,079
you'd like to learn more about mountain
goats in general, check out the episode

419
00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:48,839
Oreamnology Mountain Goats with Julie Cunningham and
I will link all these in the episode

420
00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:52,039
description, of course. And ironically, if you listen to that episode around

421
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:56,640
fifty four minutes, you will hear
my name because apparently I had the foresight

422
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,319
that we were going to talk about
these animals someday, and I asked Julie

423
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,200
how we can record eat safely around
mountain goats. So we'll get into that

424
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:06,559
nice. Yeah. Perfect. You
don't look at past me thinking about stuff.

425
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,599
So what are mountain goats. I'm
not sure they're not goats. They're

426
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,279
not mount hang on. Mountain goats
are not goats, correct, they are

427
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:19,799
not goats when you say not goats, They're not like the European goats that

428
00:25:19,839 --> 00:25:26,039
were brought over. They do look
goatish, Yeah, they look pretty goated.

429
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,519
So remember in our Romanian bear attack
episode, I mentioned a species of

430
00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:34,559
goats antelope in the area that I
definitely mispronounced, and I was wondering if

431
00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:37,240
it was a taken in Nepal,
which it definitely was. Oh yeah it

432
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:41,680
was not. So apparently it's pronounced
shammy. Oh my god, this thing.

433
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:45,880
Yes, but it's spelled c h
A M O I S, which

434
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,200
is wild. Yeah. I'm not
gonna give you stair for that one,

435
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,000
thank you very much. I yeah, just love to. But at least

436
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:52,920
that's how Google said to pronounce it, and I'm going to take it.

437
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:59,359
So the a I don't know.
Shit. So the shammy is the closest

438
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,000
living relative to the mountain goat that
we know here in North America. Oh

439
00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:04,720
no, shit, Yeah, So
the mountain goats we know here only occur

440
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:10,319
in northwestern North America and they're the
only living member of their genus and their

441
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:15,799
scientific name is Aureamnos Americanas. These
mountain goats are white and have like a

442
00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:18,079
little beard. They have black horns
that stick straight up, so not curled

443
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,720
back like the bighorn sheep, and
the horns are present in both sexes,

444
00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:26,599
so it can be a little hard
to tell them apart. And you can

445
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:32,000
get like really specific about like how
the horns curve and like the length that

446
00:26:32,039 --> 00:26:34,640
they are to differentiate the sexes.
And then also the easiest way to tell

447
00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:38,559
the sexes apart in mountain goats is
how they pee. Oh so like one

448
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,880
squat and one just kind of one
squat's more and the other like leans forward

449
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,799
kind of like dogs. Yeah yeah, I guess, yeah yeah. And

450
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,359
if you would like a more visual
and musical description of the difference between mountain

451
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,200
goats and bighorn sheep, Canada's Parks
Department has a video called Goat, Sheep

452
00:26:56,319 --> 00:27:00,720
Goat that's a polka song about the
difference between mountain goats and bighorn sheep.

453
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,319
And we'll plug a little clip that's
gonna sound yeah, can we can't we

454
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:11,160
please run this? Yeah? Jesse
put it in goats and sheep ming high.

455
00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:15,240
We don't need your ropes. Nope, you may see sheep upon the

456
00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:19,680
road bringing traffic to a hunt.
I really cannot help myself. I'm down

457
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:25,160
here in salt. So anyways,
males do way more, and I think

458
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,279
their size also depends on where they
are like geographically, because Washington State said

459
00:27:30,279 --> 00:27:33,880
that males get up to one hundred
and eighty pounds, but Alaska reported an

460
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,880
average weight of two hundred and eighty
pounds, with the largest male ever weighing

461
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,279
three hundred and eighty pounds. Fuck. Yeah, that thing is just chilling

462
00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:45,559
on the side of a mountain.
Yeah, cleaning onto like pebbles pretty much.

463
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:51,440
Yep, damn yep. It's not
really a species that like it doesn't

464
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,680
gain anything from me that big,
right, I mean there's muscle. Yeah.

465
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,680
Also like for what like the way
that they escape the predators is all

466
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:03,559
about being in excessive it's not about
even running away like yeah, but much

467
00:28:03,759 --> 00:28:06,799
the way that they pull themselves like
they climb, Oh yeah, that have

468
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,759
to be yeah, so power from
that comes from their shoulders. So they

469
00:28:10,839 --> 00:28:14,519
have to be like really strong and
like like a mountain climber, like they're

470
00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:17,400
always fucking yeah, I mean the
mountain goats, like the way that they

471
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:19,759
once again listen to the ologies episode
with the Julie Cunningham, the expert on

472
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,519
mountain goats, but they basically are
doing pull ups all day, like running

473
00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:27,039
up mountains. Badass. Yeah,
so they're as Yeah. So if you

474
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:32,000
thought bighorn sheep were bad asses,
mountain goats where it's at. I'm still

475
00:28:32,039 --> 00:28:36,480
into the takings. Yeah, you're
allowed to have favorites. So mountain goats

476
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,359
are found at very high elevations in
remote areas and making them the least studied

477
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,440
large mammal in North America. I
believe that. Yeah, I think that's

478
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,799
how they were able to repopular.
So like that bighorn sheep specifically wear ably

479
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:48,240
repoplate. So well, it's because
they're hard to get to Yeah maybe,

480
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,319
yeah, I mean animals that would
be more around humans, its can be

481
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,000
harder for them to repopulate. Sure. Yeah. So mountain goats live west

482
00:28:57,039 --> 00:29:00,759
of the Continental Divide and in the
US they are native to Alaska all the

483
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:04,720
way down to Washington, Oregon,
Idaho, and Montana. So mountain goats

484
00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:08,799
have also been introduced into Utah,
Colorado, and different parts of Washington and

485
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:14,440
Montana where they were not originally and
they will spend their entire winters at these

486
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:18,680
high elevations if there's exposed brows for
them to eat, but goats in coastal

487
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,839
areas will migrate to lower elevations in
the winter. Do you know why they

488
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:26,079
introduce them to two new areas because
they could I think? Or are they

489
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,119
historically from there? Is it just
kind of like no, these were new

490
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,640
areas like where they were not native
to. It's not like they went like

491
00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:34,640
locally extinct area. They just were
like wouldn't it be cool? Yeah,

492
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,079
So science were just like, oh, like these things could probably survive here.

493
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,640
Pretty well, let's make a new
population here. Yeah, fucking up,

494
00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:42,519
fuck you out down? Yeah yeah. I mean it's not again like

495
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,799
the spe stalle oves in mountains,
like if there's a giant fucking distance between

496
00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:48,839
mountains, like they're not gonna be
able to get to a certain area,

497
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,160
so cool. Unlike elk or deer, they live a more solitary lifestyle and

498
00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:56,440
they can hide out in caves or
cliff crevices. So, like I said,

499
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,559
studying them is super difficult unless you
have access to a helicopter. Their

500
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,599
kids so cute. Yeah, they're
so cute. But also they use community

501
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,359
science in the form of goat spotters, and you can volunteer to get out

502
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,279
there with some biologists to count goats
and I will link that in the episode

503
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:14,519
description. If you live in an
area with mountain goats, you can go

504
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:15,920
out and look for them. I
would love to do that, wouldn't be

505
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,160
so fat? A great Saturday morning
to go on with for ghosts, Yeah,

506
00:30:19,319 --> 00:30:23,400
for sure. So similar to bighorn
sheep, their running season depends on

507
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,119
where they're located. But to keep
it simple, it's in the fall or

508
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,759
the winter. Yeah, end of
the year. That makes sense. Unlike

509
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:36,359
bighorn sheep, mountain goats do not
headbutt to fight for females. And I

510
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,920
think the best way to describe the
differences between the two species in terms of

511
00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:45,680
like how they fight is if they
were dungeons and dragons classes. Oh boy,

512
00:30:45,559 --> 00:30:49,720
big horn sheep would be barbarians and
mountain goats would be fighters. Okay,

513
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,200
does that make any sense to you? No? Okay, so divulge

514
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,680
me for a moment. So barbarians
are like big strong, They run at

515
00:30:59,759 --> 00:31:03,119
things with big heavy like two handed
weapons. I like that. Yeah,

516
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,559
that's why I would want to do
it. Whereas fighters are like more fast

517
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,519
and use like a sharp sword to
like stab. But they're like doing a

518
00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:15,519
lot of skill and moving and stuff. Okay, so big horn sheep run

519
00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:18,920
each other smash, whereas mountain goats
are like dip into the side to stab

520
00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:22,680
you from the side. So are
they pretty good at defending themselves against predators

521
00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:26,799
with the horns? Like, is
that a common use for the horns or

522
00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:30,880
just kind of like for mating purposes? No, I think it's I mean

523
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:33,400
they do. They don't fight nearly
as much as big horn sheep, but

524
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,000
I mean you can't they'd stab each
other. Yeah, I mean they do,

525
00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:40,680
but it's not like they always die, Like I don't think that that's

526
00:31:40,759 --> 00:31:45,319
a very common method of death for
them. But their biggest predator, especially

527
00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:51,920
for the younger goat children, is
golden eagles. Yes, so they are

528
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,279
very aware of predation from this guy, because gold eagles will come down try

529
00:31:56,319 --> 00:32:00,000
to take like a little baby goat
and knock it off a cliff and eat.

530
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,480
What a sick way of hunting.
We weren't over this enter Golden Eagle

531
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:07,400
episode, but what a fucking smart
way to do it. Yeah, just

532
00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:09,559
run them off a fucking cliff.
They're so scary. Yeah, Like I

533
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,000
respect the crab out of golden eagles, man, right, they're huge,

534
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,880
they're so cool. Yeah. So
I imagine like drones becoming more popar is

535
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,400
probably quite scary for the goats and
the sheep. Yeah. I was going

536
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,880
to touch on that later, but
especially for mountain goats, who are so

537
00:32:22,359 --> 00:32:27,240
aware of predation from above, they
get really bothered by drones. They run

538
00:32:27,279 --> 00:32:29,759
away. There's nothing else they can
do, right, yeah, just keep

539
00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:30,880
going up. But like you're stressing
them out, which isn't great, no,

540
00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:37,079
you know, yeah yeah yeah,
I mean otherwise they're probably biggest start

541
00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:39,279
to be mountain lions because mountains could
probably run after them. Yep. Otherwise,

542
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,400
like I mean there was a recorded
death from wolves ooh, but they'd

543
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,240
have to. And I mean they
live around grizzlies sometimes, but you figure

544
00:32:46,279 --> 00:32:51,319
they're in such like remote places and
like steep places. It's hard for pretty

545
00:32:51,359 --> 00:32:53,240
much anything else to get at them. I have absolutely recently seen a video

546
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:58,319
and Natre's Metal of a bear going
after the mountain goat. Huh a mountain

547
00:32:58,359 --> 00:33:00,440
goat? Yeah? Really yeah,
and the bear like falls off the mountain

548
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,759
and dies, and there's a video. There's a video of it. Yet

549
00:33:04,799 --> 00:33:06,920
No, I don't want to see
that. Don't look it up. Okay,

550
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:08,720
oh my god, it's definitely not
looking it up. Oh my god.

551
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,759
See, I feel like that account
is so cool. I'm just way

552
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:15,359
too soft to follow it. I
can't do it. It's interesting stuff like

553
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,440
you don't need to love everything about
it. Yeah, but it's still interesting

554
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,440
to see that because it happens,
you know, objectively, it's interesting,

555
00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:27,160
but in theory, I don't want
to see it makes sense. Nature is

556
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,039
metal, I am not anyways.
Typically, the males from ages five to

557
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,720
ten are the ones that breed with
multiple females, and occasionally, if they

558
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,559
do fight, instead of budding heads, like I said, they stab each

559
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:38,759
other with their horns. So the
hunting community doesn't really have much of an

560
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:44,680
effect on the population because so many
or the males like mate with multiple females,

561
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:45,960
So it's not a big deal if
a male leaves the community, right,

562
00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:49,400
leave the population. Yeah. I
was gonna touch on that later too,

563
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,480
but we can talk about it now. Sorry I keep jumping ahead.

564
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:52,640
I mean, you don't know my
notes. This is why I'm not allowed

565
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,119
to do research on the stuff because
I want to bring stuff up out out

566
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,960
of order that you want. That's
fine, I don't care. So yeah.

567
00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:02,599
Yeah, Basically, hunting is really
dependent on where you are in the

568
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,559
populations that you're hunting. So if
you are someone who wants to hunt mountain

569
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:09,480
goats, you have to make sure
that you know. I mean you would

570
00:34:09,519 --> 00:34:12,480
know because you'd be getting the test. Yeah, you need to know the

571
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:15,239
laws no matter what you're hunting.
Yeah. But for example, so they're

572
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,719
not a really long waved species,
like they don't even live to be really

573
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,559
twenty, but the females take quite
a few years to mature, like more

574
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,440
than normal, and they only have
a kid like once a year, once

575
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,079
every two years. Yeah, only
one kid out of time exactly. Yeah,

576
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,119
So it makes more sense to kill
males because that way you still have

577
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:35,639
more breeding females. But in some
areas with the mountain goats, like there's

578
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:37,239
a lot of them, you can't
take a female. So it depends on

579
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,960
the area. But yeah, I
mean, also I think we've got to

580
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,599
acknowledge if you are a person who
hunts mountain goats, like that's gotta be

581
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:47,679
one of the hardest things to hunt. Yeah, that is crazy, I

582
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,599
think so, I think. I
think that's gotta be one of the most

583
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:54,360
intense hunts there are. That's gonna
be so dangerous because you're like climbing walls

584
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,400
of ice probably to try to just
even scout for that in grizzly bear infested

585
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,559
areas. As we've learned, Hey, it's not infested if it's their home,

586
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,760
that's yeah. You are absolutely correct, and you're walking into the home

587
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,159
of all these animals and you are
nothing but a fleshy little baby with a

588
00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:15,800
gun. Yeah, which is pretty
effective, to be fair. Yeah,

589
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:19,840
well, if you aim right and
if you're able to get it while you're

590
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,639
being attacked, it works. Yeah. And then just one more little fact.

591
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,880
Similar to bighorn sheep, the males
tend to separate from females and kids

592
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,000
during the non running season. So
that's it's sick. No. Unlike bigcorn

593
00:35:32,039 --> 00:35:37,599
sheep, mountain goats have been recorded
killing people. Let's talk about it.

594
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,280
Really. Oh yeah, how did
I not find so? I actually looked

595
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,159
up let's go to Olympic National Park
in Washington State. I you know what,

596
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,320
Actually I did see this one.
I saw I was like the only

597
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,400
one, so I purposely did not
read it perfect. Thanks. So.

598
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,239
Olympic National Park was one of those
areas where mountain goats were introduced. I

599
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,719
really want to go there some day. On a side note, Yeah,

600
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:00,800
that's like top my list. Cool, Okay, you just want me to

601
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:01,960
know that, you want everyone know
that. I just know that. Cool.

602
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:08,159
I really so. Mound goats were
introduced in the nineteen twenties to Olympic

603
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:14,159
National Park, so they weren't considered
native to the area, and sixty three

604
00:36:14,199 --> 00:36:16,920
year old Robert H. Boardman set
out on October sixteenth, twenty ten,

605
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,519
to hike with his wife Susan,
and friend Pat Willitts in Olympic National Park.

606
00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:24,880
The small group got four miles north
of Hurricane Ridge Visitor Center along the

607
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:29,519
top of claw Hain Ridge, and
around twelve thirty pm, they stopped for

608
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:32,599
lunch and as they were eating,
they were approached by a very aggressive male

609
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,519
goat. Robert told the others to
head back down the trail, and he

610
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:42,039
said that he'd tried to shew the
goat away, and because Robert ended up

611
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:45,880
alone with the goat, no one
really witnessed what happened next, but Susan

612
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:52,239
and Pat heard him scream and ran
back. Robert was lying motionless on the

613
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:58,320
ground with a stab wound in his
thigh and the male goat was standing over

614
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,679
his body. Ooh. Susan and
Patt tried to shew the goat away,

615
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,239
but he would not leave and instead
just stared them down while he stood over

616
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:13,400
Robert, who was bleeding. Another
group including Jessica, Bill Bacchis, and

617
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,800
their three kids, came upon the
scene and saw Pat on the phone seemingly

618
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:21,119
frantic and stepped into help. And
Bill was actually a park scientist, which

619
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:23,119
was convenient, so he had a
park radio and immediately called for help,

620
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:27,840
and thanks to his experience in the
park, Bill had three of them spread

621
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,400
out along the slope and throw rocks
to the goat while yelling at it,

622
00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:32,920
and it finally backed away for a
few minutes, only because it got distracted

623
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,599
by a reflection on a hiker's space, Like, like, not even from

624
00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:39,000
the rocks they're yelling it just like
saw a shiny object and was like,

625
00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:43,840
huh, yeah, there are some
I guess that they don't look like they

626
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,519
got a lot going on behind his
eyes. Nope. Correct. Also,

627
00:37:46,639 --> 00:37:51,719
Jessica Bill's wife was a former park
ranger and she was trained in first aid,

628
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,800
so she tried to help Robert,
but she didn't get access to him

629
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,920
until one twenty pm and they started
eating lunch around like twelve thirty. Oh

630
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,880
yeah, he had no pulse and
blood was coming from one of his legs.

631
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,159
Oh you bled out? Yeah.
Fuck. The goat was still nearby

632
00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:13,679
as she went to go tend to
Robert, and someone was entirely dedicated just

633
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:15,639
to keeping an eye on the goat
to make sure he didn't come back.

634
00:38:15,199 --> 00:38:19,559
He got I mean shit, I
guess he got lucky, but like he

635
00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:22,199
got found by the best people he
could have been found. I feel we

636
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,199
talked about this a lot, like
it kind of works out that the best

637
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:29,280
possible people find each other. Well, this is gonna blow your mind.

638
00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:31,599
So, like so many other stories, as Jessica was tending to Robert,

639
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:36,559
a doctor happened to be on a
walk. I don't know why this happened.

640
00:38:36,599 --> 00:38:38,039
How many doctors are there, There's
got to be a lot there.

641
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:42,360
So I was out there. So
the percentage of people that I meet,

642
00:38:42,679 --> 00:38:45,760
like on a normal basis, none
of them are intelligent be doctors. So

643
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,119
like there's no way that there's there's
that many doctors out there. I think,

644
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,159
hun, I think that's more a
reflection on you than anybody else.

645
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:59,360
Fuck, you're right, damn it. So the doctor stepped into help and

646
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,920
tried to give assistance, and the
US Coast Guard arrived twenty minutes later,

647
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,400
and they were in a helicopter and
they were able to airlift Robert to the

648
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,320
Olympic Medical Center in Port Angelus,
where he was pronounced dead. Coast guard

649
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,800
huh yeah, oh that's pretty cool. Same either, Washington, Yeah,

650
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,880
absolutely, I did. I'm right
by the water, yeah yeah. And

651
00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:20,400
within hours of this incident, members
of the National Park Service found the goat

652
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:25,360
who had killed Robert and euthanized it. Robert's family sued the National Park Service

653
00:39:25,519 --> 00:39:30,519
for what because this goat was known
for being aggressive. He had even been

654
00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:36,920
nicknamed clawhyne Billy oh no, and
was referenced in some emails within the National

655
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,000
Park Service as quote cranky goat,
cranky doats. So a bit of an

656
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:45,800
understatement, yeah for sure. So
in July two thousand and nine, National

657
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,880
Park employees tried to haze this goat
because they were getting reports of him like

658
00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:52,119
chasing people down trails, and they
tried to throwing rocks at him, tried

659
00:39:52,159 --> 00:39:55,559
shooting at him with bean bags,
but obviously none of it worked. And

660
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:00,840
Susan Robert's wife alleged that they allowed
this depth happen by not removing a known

661
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:06,159
dangerous animal. Shit, They might
have a point. I might not completely

662
00:40:06,159 --> 00:40:08,719
disagree. I mean, ultimately,
the judge mostly throughout the lawsuit, okay,

663
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:13,119
and said that even the park no
sorry, and said even though the

664
00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:15,440
park could have acted more quickly to
kill or relocate Clawhyn and Billy, their

665
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:21,760
actions are quote immune from lawsuits under
the Federal Torte Claims Act. So basically

666
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,559
mean that, like, what happened
was not caused by negligence or a wrongful

667
00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:28,480
act by an employee or agent of
the National Park Service, just a shitty

668
00:40:28,519 --> 00:40:32,880
accident. Yeah, And I mean, because like, where do you draw

669
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,360
the line? No? Absolutely no, No, I agree, I absolutely

670
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,400
agree. I don't. I don't
totally blame her for trying to go after

671
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,639
that one. Like if I had
heard that my family was killed by an

672
00:40:42,639 --> 00:40:45,360
animal that was known to be a
nuisance, I'd be a little bit like,

673
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:46,599
yell, what the fuck why didn't
you stop this? Yeah? Why

674
00:40:46,679 --> 00:40:50,119
Yeah, whit what did you do? Wow? Why didn't you do something

675
00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:52,519
sooner? You know, So I
don't totally blame them, But at the

676
00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:57,239
same time, like what could they
have done to keep themselves safe in the

677
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,760
situation? You know, like did
they get too close to the animal?

678
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:01,800
He probably should have left himself alone
with it. Yeah, I agree,

679
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,880
that's that's the number one thing in
my mind is stay with the group.

680
00:41:06,119 --> 00:41:07,519
Yeah, you know, it's kind
of for any animal, like I would

681
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:10,239
I would rather be in a group
than than not be Yeah, for sure.

682
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,239
Yeah. Yeah, it brings me
back to the Grizzly Nights episode,

683
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,320
Like, I wonder if any of
those families sued the park Service because the

684
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:22,840
bears that killed those kids they were
known to go after people. It was

685
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,039
such a different time though as well. So oh yeah, for sure,

686
00:41:25,079 --> 00:41:30,000
like the sixties and seventies. Say, I don't think lawsuits were really what

687
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:32,719
they are today. Yeah, fair, because people suck now, people have

688
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,400
always suck, just in a different
way now for sure. Yeah. So

689
00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:38,400
why did claw Hayne Billy become so
aggressive in the first place? Why did

690
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,800
that happen? At the time of
Robert's death. It was the running season,

691
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,480
so it would make sense if he
was a little more aggressive. But

692
00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:51,559
anee cropsy revealed rabies. Nothing,
Fuck, David, you set me up.

693
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,519
Imagine a rabid goat though, I
mean it must be possible, right,

694
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:59,519
Like all mammals are yeah, all
mammals, including cetaceans technically fuck yeah,

695
00:42:00,119 --> 00:42:01,920
ah man, a rabbit or I
was just gonna say, dude,

696
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,199
what if one of the wheels that
see we're all got rabies. I'd be

697
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,800
crazy. My best friends are going
to Lasca and Mark I would have to

698
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:12,239
warn them, look out for the
rabies, look out for the rabbit orchan.

699
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,880
Look they're trying to think your boat. That's crazy. Anyways. Yeah,

700
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,719
so his knee cropsy revealed nothing interesting
or like abnormal. So what made

701
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:27,400
him so aggressive? Well, it
was known in this region, and Slash

702
00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:32,199
is known in the Pacific Northwest that
goats have become habituated people because they want

703
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:37,880
your pea. I'm sorry what they
want to lick your pea? These goats

704
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:44,159
want a golden shower. Yeah,
because they crave salt, which is not

705
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:49,039
naturally produced a lot in the area, and they started associating people with salt

706
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,679
because people will, you know,
as they're hiking, will just whip it

707
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:59,199
out, and so the goats are
like yum. And then so now they're

708
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:06,199
chasing people for their pea. I
love this. It's so weird. They

709
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:15,199
want your pee. Yep, fascinate. So just a watch up. I

710
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:22,119
guess I never realized that salt would
be that uncommon in nature that they would

711
00:43:22,119 --> 00:43:23,119
want to chase after people to get
it. Well, I mean, you

712
00:43:23,199 --> 00:43:27,760
know, deer and moose like salt
lakes. Yeah, but they don't chase

713
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,360
after people's pee. Yeah, but
they do go inside of the road to

714
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,559
look salt. So they do.
They do. Absolutely. You figure these

715
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:37,719
goats are at the top of a
goddamn mountain, Like there's not many places

716
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,519
for them to go to get salt. Yeah, so you pee and they're

717
00:43:39,559 --> 00:43:44,599
like thingkspell wow. Yeah. So
like what is this like a normal thing,

718
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,119
Like are multiple goats doing this or
is just like cheap go we are

719
00:43:47,159 --> 00:43:50,519
on right, mountain goats mountain goat
all right, I got all of them

720
00:43:50,559 --> 00:43:52,880
up on my my computer, nowsing. Yeah, So, like, is

721
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,840
this a normal thing for the goats
to do to go out in the Pacific

722
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:00,000
Northwest? It is recorded in like
a known phenomenon that they will like chase

723
00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:02,159
after people or like approach people for
their peak. What probably people sweat,

724
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,519
like can they smell someone who has
like really bad bo or something like when

725
00:44:06,519 --> 00:44:07,639
they're sweat? Maybe, but I
feel like it's less common for a goat

726
00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:10,840
to walk up in the liquor start
licking your fucking hand like yeah, because

727
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:15,079
you'd be like, please don't.
Probably, but also like what's he?

728
00:44:15,639 --> 00:44:19,079
How's he? How's he getting the
pe because people peel on a wrap and

729
00:44:19,079 --> 00:44:22,400
then they're like, uh, that
makes way more sense than what my more

730
00:44:22,519 --> 00:44:30,199
peeing on goats? That okay.
I kind of thought that people would be

731
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:31,840
peeing and the goat would come like
running over as their pin. Maybe that

732
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,320
happens now, but I'm sure if
you were peeing and a goat ran towards

733
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,239
you, you'd probably stop. I'd
probably pissed myself more. I'd put it

734
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,840
back in my pants, like I
get back there, it's being drenched,

735
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:44,559
And then they'd be chasing you because
he'd be like let me, oh no,

736
00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:47,440
something like that. Naked and the
one pants at them. I don't

737
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:52,239
think that's no. I think that's
I think that's the safest way to get

738
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,960
out of these goat naked we are
taking some turns, so let's move right

739
00:44:57,039 --> 00:45:00,239
along. So, like I said, the goats in the Olympic National Park

740
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:05,280
area were introduced, meaning they weren't
native, right, So, beginning in

741
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,679
twenty eighteen, the National Park Service, the USDA Force Service, and Washington

742
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:13,920
Department of Fishing Wildlife set out to
get the Olympic National Force population of mountain

743
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,239
goats to zero. What the fuck? What? Yeah? Wh wha what?

744
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:19,639
No? No? No, no. So they introduced them and now

745
00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:21,639
they're trying to kill them all off. Yeah, they're like, take these

746
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:28,320
taxis and they are removing them.
But the reason is they wanted to relocate

747
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,760
all the goats to the Cascade Range
where they were native, but populations have

748
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,840
been really depleted. So they were
basically like, well, they're fucking with

749
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,199
people here. They killed the guy, so let's just let's take all the

750
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:42,199
goats and move them over there where
they're dying. Yep. I know,

751
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,239
I couldn't find out like why they
were depleted in that region, if it

752
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:46,679
was like hunting or something. So
they're not murdering them off though, they're

753
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,519
just moving them. Okay, So
here's what happened. Oh no, in

754
00:45:51,599 --> 00:45:53,960
twenty twenty, they had their last
captured and translocation effort, and in total,

755
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:57,840
three hundred and twenty five goats were
released in the Cascade Mountains. Oh

756
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,480
wow, that's a lot. Actually, however, it's supposed to every last

757
00:46:00,519 --> 00:46:05,599
goat because they're so hard to find. So, you know, we were

758
00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:08,800
talking about the goat counts earlier.
The biologist in that ologies episode was saying,

759
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:14,239
even if I count every single goat, I can see I know for

760
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:15,840
a fact, I'm not counting every
goat because some are just in areas that

761
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:20,519
people cannot access. So I mean
I assume that with every animal pretty much.

762
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,760
Yeah an account. Obviously you're popping
up with a helicopter, they're like,

763
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:27,599
what is that giant ass loud bird. Go away, let me skirt

764
00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:31,159
out here. So basically meaning it's
impossible for the park Service to capture every

765
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:36,679
single least goat, right, So
the remaining goats were in the worst terrain,

766
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,960
making capture unsafe for not only the
people but also the goats. So

767
00:46:40,119 --> 00:46:45,159
as time went on, from twenty
eighteen to twenty twenty, the capture mortality

768
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:49,079
went from five percent to nine percent, meaning it was really unsafe to capture

769
00:46:49,079 --> 00:46:51,840
the rest because they assumed like they
are so remote and like, you know,

770
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:54,079
away from people, that the capture
stress would be a lot for them.

771
00:46:54,199 --> 00:46:58,679
I mean, if you're again,
mountain goats, they sit on cliffs.

772
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,639
How can a fucking trank a goat
on m Yeah they did it though,

773
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,159
which is crazy, and that's why
the fucking the rate went up.

774
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,079
Yeah, yeah, that's that's true. Yeah yeah. So instead of letting

775
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:12,000
the goats live out the rest of
their days there, because obviously they would

776
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:17,199
have been more goats, they gathered
quote skilled volunteers aka hunters to lethally remove

777
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,840
the goats. In the fall of
twenty twenty, thirty one goats were killed

778
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,320
this way, but it took a
combined nine thousand hours across ninety nine volunteers.

779
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,599
Wow yeah wow, obviously not like
you know, between ninety nine people

780
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,679
nine thousand hours. But that's still
for thirty four No, sorry for thirty

781
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:37,800
one goats. I would put money
to slow goats out there too, yeah.

782
00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:40,320
Yeah. And then in twenty twenty
one there was a two week aerial

783
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:45,559
operation in July and August and one
hundred and thirteen more goats were removed this

784
00:47:45,679 --> 00:47:50,840
way, so basically shooting them from
helicopters, which has got to be crazy.

785
00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:54,559
Definitely does not sound fun at all. It sounds a little bit fun.

786
00:47:54,639 --> 00:47:58,000
Oh, this sounds a little bit
fun. Yeah, aad Yeah,

787
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,000
fucked up? Yeah, well,
I mean, I mean there are species

788
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:04,880
that people hunt. Yeah, Like, it's not wrong for you to want

789
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,320
to hunt in animal. As we've
said, they're not endangered, like they're

790
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,199
all yeah, in this specific area. They're even trying to get rid of

791
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:14,079
them, and this is once again
a once in a lifetime shot that you'd

792
00:48:14,119 --> 00:48:15,239
be able to take them out and
go. I just don't like the fact

793
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:20,119
that they brought them there and are
now. Of course I don't like that

794
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,760
part to me either. Yeah,
it seems like that's wherever problem. Yeah,

795
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,480
And I don't know if this was
in response to Robert's death or if

796
00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:28,360
this was just in general. They
were like, you know what, not

797
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,840
working out here. I think that
they were also disturbing some natural vegetation,

798
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,599
so they were like, let's move
them to where they're supposed to be.

799
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,320
Whose fucking idea was this? I
think when you forgot whose idea this was,

800
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:38,639
I kind of go after that.
Some people in the nineteen twenties they're

801
00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:44,440
dead now, probably all right,
fair, So As of August twenty twenty

802
00:48:44,519 --> 00:48:46,639
one, five hundred and twenty five
goats were removed from the park, with

803
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:52,400
one hundred and fifty two being lethally
removed. Six were euthanized for reasons I

804
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,880
could not ascertain. Twenty three died
during capture and three died in transport.

805
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,119
I think it's pretty good, honestly. I mean that must have been really

806
00:49:00,159 --> 00:49:06,079
expensive. Oh my god, yeah, absolutely many, like excluding the ones

807
00:49:06,119 --> 00:49:08,119
that were that were killed. Like
to move that many? Yeah, with

808
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:13,360
helicopters, yeah, manpower, Yeah, that's present. Do you know what

809
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,480
the what the process is to go
capture them? Like, is it just

810
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:19,639
tranquilizing and then talk them to helicopter
and just flying them out in a blindfold

811
00:49:19,679 --> 00:49:22,199
on flying a helicopter. Yeah,
just pokemon to the bottom and yeah,

812
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,760
give them the flight of their life. I hope they don't fake and fucking

813
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:29,400
wake up. Well, like I
just said, three died in transport.

814
00:49:29,559 --> 00:49:31,280
Yeah, so what does that mean
they woke up and had a heart attack

815
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:38,079
when they realized they were six with
the Golden Eagles, the Golden News are

816
00:49:38,119 --> 00:49:45,039
flying with them. Oh my god, that's fucked up. Anyways, So

817
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:46,760
to wrap this up, how can
we stay safe around the goats, and

818
00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:51,559
kind of touching on to once again, like what's affecting the mountain goats?

819
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:53,840
So the most important thing to stay
safe around them. Give them space,

820
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:58,119
give them space, give every animal
space. Yeah, exactly. That is

821
00:49:58,159 --> 00:50:01,239
a great piece of advice for anything
little wild animal. Just don't run at

822
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,480
them. Like a video I just
posted on our Instagram of a woman running

823
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,400
out a coyote and then the kyote
runs after her, and they're like,

824
00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:12,199
ah, no shit. What if
you're in like Yosemite or Yellowstone ye specifically,

825
00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:14,119
and you see like a baby bison
drowning at river, do you go

826
00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:15,360
say that we're gonna talk about in
second. Okayay, we'll get that.

827
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,960
Don't you worry. We're not gonn
talk about unngele It's and not talking about

828
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:24,440
that. Don't spoiler spoiler fucking do
it anyways. Also, don't try if

829
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,880
a mountain goat is approaching you,
don't try to poke them with a hiking

830
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,360
stick or anything. I'm sorry,
why would someone do that. Well,

831
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:31,599
maybe it's a run night and you're
like all you have is sticks, or

832
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,480
get away from it. If it's
running at me. I'm not poking at

833
00:50:35,519 --> 00:50:38,920
I'm full swing in that motherfucker.
Well, but the point here is the

834
00:50:39,039 --> 00:50:42,480
way that they compete with each other
is by stabbing each other. At the

835
00:50:42,599 --> 00:50:45,719
horse, he's gonna win that.
So poking them may entice them to also

836
00:50:46,039 --> 00:50:50,719
poke back at you and they will
win. Yeah, So don't do it.

837
00:50:51,519 --> 00:50:54,079
Instead, yell at them, throw
rocks or something else that allows you

838
00:50:54,119 --> 00:50:55,920
to have distance for them. That's
the biggest thing. Like, keep your

839
00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,960
distance for sure, And if a
goat approaches you and seems aggressive, let

840
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:05,039
the rangers in the area know,
Nick, stop speaking of not approaching dangerous

841
00:51:05,039 --> 00:51:08,360
animals. Stop trying to hit my
cat. You're supposed to kill me a

842
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,360
little bit. So Also, like
we've been talking about, they're really mountain

843
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,119
goats are really aware of predation from
above. So if you are in an

844
00:51:15,159 --> 00:51:17,599
area with mountain goats, like,
don't use drones around them. I mean,

845
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,719
you're not supposed to using the national
parks anyway, So that takes out

846
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,400
a lot of the area that they're
in the United States at least. Yeah,

847
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,280
and then using for a hunting like
I think at first one, I

848
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,440
think it's illegal and it's kind of
fucked up. Yeah, for sure.

849
00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:35,760
So another great piece of advice that
could be used for many animals is off

850
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,760
leash dogs, bother them. Every
fucking animal, yeah, especially deer apparently.

851
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:44,039
Check out the video I posted on
our Facebook get a Live podcast.

852
00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:46,840
Was it Facebook or Instagram? Facebook? So let's why I didn't see it.

853
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:52,159
They have also gore dogs because when
dogs run at them, they're like,

854
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:57,599
hey, small or large wolf,
fuck you a very small wolf.

855
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,800
Yeah. So if you live around
mountain go through your recreating around mountain goat

856
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,599
territory, keep your dog on a
leash. Yeah. Now, and whenever

857
00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:07,599
I hear of like a dog being
attacked by wall anymore, I honestly don't

858
00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:08,960
feel as bad because it's like keep
your fucking dog only. Well, I

859
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,480
feel bad for the dog, but
I hate the owner. Yeah that's what.

860
00:52:12,679 --> 00:52:14,719
Yeah, that's what I mean.
Like, I don't I don't call

861
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,599
for the death of said wild animal
for attacking it. Oh, of course

862
00:52:19,679 --> 00:52:22,960
not. Yeah, yeah, I
understand why the animal needs to be youthanized

863
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:28,440
sometimes. But yeah, and also
especially for mountain goats, they live in

864
00:52:28,519 --> 00:52:32,199
such dangerous places for humans and dogs, so you don't want your dog running

865
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,400
up a cliff. After an animal
evolved, that's three hundred pounds sprinting up

866
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,239
a cliff. Yeah, but like
you mentioned, like in the in the

867
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,800
winter time, sometimes they come down
from higher elevations, so that's when you

868
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:45,079
would run into them, is the
winter time, Yeah, in the tree

869
00:52:45,159 --> 00:52:50,280
line for exactly. Yeah, but
otherwise mountain goats are generally doing okay,

870
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:53,760
they don't really attack people that often
unless they're going after your pee. But

871
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,400
but keep your distance if you see
them. Some many time, I saw

872
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,199
people walking into the bighorn cheap and
it's just dumb. It's just dumb.

873
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:04,440
I mean, hey, that's a
great segue and through the last thing we're

874
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,840
going to talk about, which is
bison. The fucking bison man. Yeah,

875
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,199
I mean I just someone one of
you sent me a TikTok of a

876
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:15,480
woman standing within like two to three
feet of a bison laying down and she

877
00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:17,920
was taking selfies. Bison killed people
every year. They're the most dangerous animal.

878
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,800
And Yilsom. We've said it before, we'll say it again. We

879
00:53:21,039 --> 00:53:23,199
can't find stories about these sheep,
but we can find plenty of stories about

880
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:25,639
the fucking bison. We already have
episodes about it. Feel free to go

881
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,480
back and looked at them. Yeah, So, Nick, you did more

882
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:30,639
of the research for this story.
We're going to discuss it a little bit

883
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:34,639
and then we'll close this out.
But I want to discuss but mostly I

884
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,679
want to scold the internet a bit. Perfect. Yeah. I'm not sure

885
00:53:37,679 --> 00:53:39,719
if you guys know this about me
or not, but I don't love the

886
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:43,440
Internet very much. You don't stay
at the end of every podcast. Yeah,

887
00:53:44,079 --> 00:53:46,880
it's a pretty pretty shitty place.
So there was a tourist in Yellowstone

888
00:53:47,039 --> 00:53:52,639
who the National Park's Department or Yellowstone
specifically, made a social media post looking

889
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:58,239
for a white man in sunglasses,
blue shirt who helped a calf out of

890
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:00,679
the river. And there's a picture
which I heard on our Instagram. What

891
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,079
have happened? I called him an
asshole. I'll be fully I will be

892
00:54:02,159 --> 00:54:05,719
fully transparent own up to the fact. I did not read the story before

893
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,679
I posted it. I just saw
a man holding a bison and I was

894
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:09,159
like, this guy sucks. Yeah. So there was a bison herd that

895
00:54:09,199 --> 00:54:15,239
crossed the Lamar Valley River Lamar River. Yeah, that's where the bison across

896
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:19,719
the Lamar River in Lamar Valley,
and the whole herd went by, and

897
00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:23,000
there was a young calf stuck in
the water. Man goes down, helps

898
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,440
it out of the water, pushes
it up onto the road. Good guy.

899
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:29,960
Right. Well, no, that
they had to put that bison calf

900
00:54:30,039 --> 00:54:32,599
down because the herd then pushed it
away. The herd would not accept it

901
00:54:32,639 --> 00:54:37,280
into them anymore. It was walking
up to people in cars because I had

902
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:43,159
nowhere else to go. So they
had to euthanize this bison because they can't

903
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:46,840
take these things out of the park
without first testing for brussolowsis. I'm putting

904
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:51,679
it into quarantine. Yah, they
cannot quarantine the animal. Well sorry,

905
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:53,679
they could not quarantine this calf because
it does not have to care for itself,

906
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:58,159
so it die in quarantine. God, yeah, you're right, that's

907
00:54:58,159 --> 00:55:00,239
why they had to put it down. In the entire fun Internet, these

908
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:07,039
dumb motherfuckers start, there's unloading on
the National Park Service, unloading on the

909
00:55:07,039 --> 00:55:09,800
people in Yellowstone as if they wanted
this fucking calf to die, so people

910
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:13,280
just start going after them. That'd
make a whole another post about it,

911
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,159
like hey, this is why we
did this, This is like we didn't

912
00:55:15,159 --> 00:55:16,679
want to do this. Yeah,
And they said that they were going to

913
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:21,039
delete comments and block people and they
start going after the fucking guy, like

914
00:55:21,079 --> 00:55:23,719
people wanted the dude that pretty much
crucified. Yeah, like what are you

915
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:29,199
doing? Like he helped a baby
animal out of a river. It was

916
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,480
a stupid mistake. He shouldn't have
done it. He got not arrested.

917
00:55:31,519 --> 00:55:35,440
He had like one thousand dollars fine
for which I think is pretty accurate.

918
00:55:35,599 --> 00:55:39,920
Yeah, I'm fine with that because
he's getting absolutely destroyed online, like he's

919
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,880
fucked. Yeah, and his pictures
out there out there. Yeah, his

920
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,400
family is friendsic, they all see
it's Hawaii. Yeah, he's an Hawaiian

921
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:51,400
dude. Yeah. So something that
you didn't just say, but you told

922
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,400
me earlier when we were talking about
it, was that the herd left without

923
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:57,039
the calf, right, the herd
just left. They didn't even like the

924
00:55:57,119 --> 00:56:00,280
mother didn't stop to retrieve the calf
out of the water. No, you

925
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,679
know why, because fucking calves die. It fucking happens. Yeah, it

926
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:07,920
sucks. Also, Yellowstone is not
it's not a park, right, that's

927
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,880
sorry. It is a national park
exactly. It is not a zoo.

928
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:15,159
It's not a zoo. A really
hard thing for people to witness when they're

929
00:56:15,199 --> 00:56:17,719
not in nature all the time,
Like if it was to die, that's

930
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,079
part of it, and something would
eat it. And if you tell me

931
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:23,039
that this guy brought his family to
Yellowstone, He's got a ten year old

932
00:56:23,079 --> 00:56:27,440
and eight year old fucking daughters and
they're watching his baby calf ground, they're

933
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,320
gonna be dad. Dude. Yeah, I'm not gonna jump on the dude

934
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:31,960
for getting in the river and pushing
a calf out, knowing what we know

935
00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:37,039
now and what he he hopefully knows
now, that's sure he knows, say

936
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:39,559
the fuck away, do not touch
the animals. This is why we're always

937
00:56:39,559 --> 00:56:43,719
so like on it, like let
the animals be. Let the animals live

938
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:45,679
and die as they're going to live
and die. Yeah, it sucks.

939
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,639
But now my big problem is with
the way that the Internet responded to it,

940
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:53,719
specifically against like the dude, Like
what you're you're gonna get the fucking

941
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,800
You're gonna get the pipe on the
internet. That's just what's gonna happen.

942
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,639
The Park Service, like people who
follow the National Park Service should have a

943
00:57:00,679 --> 00:57:02,880
little bit of like recognition of you
know what they're doing. Yeah, yeah,

944
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,079
yeah, Like these are scientists that
know what the fuck they're doing,

945
00:57:06,159 --> 00:57:08,199
and like they don't want to kill
animals, and we know that we need

946
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:12,280
to stay out of their fucking their
shit. Yeah, I mean people,

947
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,440
I just I mean some people who
go to National Parks don't get that it's

948
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:17,920
nature and that things. It isn't
all rosy all the time. We do

949
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:22,000
talk shit about some of the National
Parks series stuff, Like I was just

950
00:57:22,039 --> 00:57:24,840
saying they shouldn't have introduced the ship
to Washington and killed the mountain goats and

951
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,480
the mountain goats yeah no, I
yeah, like they can make mistakes,

952
00:57:29,559 --> 00:57:31,119
but like, let's fucking think about
it for a second. You know.

953
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:35,239
Also animals. First of all,
let's talk about the fact that when people

954
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,079
touch animals, even outside of National
parks, they often get euthanized. Like

955
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:44,159
recently in Maine, there was a
story going around of a dumb woman,

956
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,119
a dumb woman that sounded like no, no, no, we women are

957
00:57:47,239 --> 00:57:52,639
dumb, But that's not what I'm
saying. This particularly stupid woman had a

958
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:54,800
baby raccoon. There was a video
of her holding a baby raccoon in her

959
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:58,920
arms, and she took to PetSmart
to get its nails trimmed because she wanted

960
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,960
to keep it and let other people
snuggle and kiss the baby raccoon. So

961
00:58:02,039 --> 00:58:06,119
of course Main the department are like
fisheries or whatever the hell it is.

962
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,920
Main was like, uh noesies and
took the baby and euthanized it because that

963
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,519
it had to test it for rabies
only making test for rabies cutting out a

964
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:15,960
brainstem. Everyone had to go get
shots, which are expensive. Do you

965
00:58:15,039 --> 00:58:17,719
know how hew Passmart responded to that, like do they kip clip the nails?

966
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:22,039
Oh no No. The manager saw
on the camera that someone was walking

967
00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:23,000
around with a raccoon and was like, you need to get out of you're

968
00:58:23,119 --> 00:58:25,800
right now, and they did the
right thing. They immediately called the government

969
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:30,239
and was like, ah, yeah, we just think tested. Yes,

970
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:32,599
this baby raccoons killed because people I
used to take calls all the time.

971
00:58:32,599 --> 00:58:36,480
I've said it before, where like
someone calls me and says, hey,

972
00:58:36,639 --> 00:58:38,079
my child picked up a baby skunk
and I'm like, cool, now that's

973
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:40,679
gonna test to die. Yeah,
like that's just how it is. Yeah.

974
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,199
And this time I see someone on
Instagram of like people fucking around with

975
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,880
baby animals Like all right, well
you just killed them all yep, yeah

976
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:52,679
pretty much. Well there it is. There it is. Don't touch stuff,

977
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,159
don't fuck with the animals watching the
distance, take pictures, enjoy it.

978
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:58,639
Keep your dog on a leash,
Keep your dog on a leash oo,

979
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,760
don't like cats outside? Always ending
on that, do not let your

980
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:07,679
cats. Anyways, let's wrap this
up because we're just gonna say more shit

981
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,599
that we will regret. So thank
you so much for listening to episode fifty

982
00:59:10,639 --> 00:59:13,760
four I Get it a Live.
For more information, check out the episode

983
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,639
description or check out our website get
at a Live podcast dot com, or

984
00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:20,000
you can also check out our merch
Get a Live podcast dot com slash shop.

985
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,440
You can find us on Instagram at
get out a Live pod, TikTok

986
00:59:23,519 --> 00:59:27,840
get out a Live gross I do. Yeah, I'm not gonna TikTok.

987
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,480
I really don't know how to use
it. But also if sometimes people tag

988
00:59:30,519 --> 00:59:31,239
me and stuff and I don't see
it because I don't know how to use

989
00:59:31,239 --> 00:59:34,480
the app, are you serious?
Oh my god? Yet? Oh I've

990
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:38,000
recently started like responding to people and
they are shocked that I'm responding because I

991
00:59:38,159 --> 00:59:40,719
think people have tagged me and stuff
before and I haven't seen it. No

992
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,320
shit, So I'm sorry people.
Yeah, that's sad. But one listener,

993
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,360
Jenna, I see you thank you
for listening. Jenna, Jenna,

994
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,920
No, this is unknown to us, Jenna, unknown to the pod now.

995
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:52,960
So anyways, thanks guys. You
can follow me on Twitter at the

996
00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:55,159
end realog just oh yeah, follow
us on Facebook, get a live podcast

997
00:59:55,199 --> 01:00:00,559
where I post like recent stories and
stuff like that. Nick. No no

998
01:00:00,559 --> 01:00:02,440
no, no no no no,
stay stay away from me on the internet

999
01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:06,960
unless we're gonna listen to the podcast, and which please thank you very much

1000
01:00:07,039 --> 01:00:09,480
leading with you. Yeah yeah.
If you want to support us at all,

1001
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:13,199
please like for free. It only
takes a few seconds. If you

1002
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,400
like this episode, give us five
stars on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Podchaser,

1003
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:19,199
wherever and subscriber we're listening or we
think it's a four star, so

1004
01:00:19,239 --> 01:00:22,079
i'mon'tkare with that. I think it's
four stars and then below three though.

1005
01:00:22,159 --> 01:00:24,960
Don't worry about it. Yeah yeah, then you can't. There's no We

1006
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:29,039
appreciate your your opinion, but just
don't let the anyone else know about it.

1007
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:31,960
Go to us, you know privately. Oh god, yeah, and

1008
01:00:32,039 --> 01:00:37,880
we'll address it. Thank you so
much to my second grade husband, Josh

1009
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Walsh for making our inter music,
and thank you to his brother Jesse Walsh

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for doing all the editing and making
our wonderful transition music. You're the man,

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and we'll see you in two weeks
for a new story.