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Welcome to Idemics Performance and Wellness,
where world leading coaches and scientists explain how

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their research can help you achieve your
personal and professional goals. Foster hi It's

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Sanjayanti, co founder and CEO of
Idemics Coaching. Coaching has played an important

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role in my life. It's helped
me through my journey to become a powerful

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leader, mother and wife. IDMX
coaches help you increase your self awareness,

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improve your problem solving skills, and
evolve your habits to achieve your goals,

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all things I'm grateful to have learned
and done through my own coaching journey.

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with an Idemics coach that best fits your

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is vetted and experienced. It helps clients

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and business goals. If you or someone

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Thanks for listening and see you next
time. Welcome to Coaching for Performance and

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Wellness. I'm your host Jamie Cosmar
and I'm your co host Samita Jayanti,

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and today we are here to talk
to you about the role of talent and

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investment. And I'm very excited we
are going to be speaking today about an

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article that Saan Jayanti wrote for pe
Hub entitled the most important part of diligence

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that nobody is talking about. So
this is the next frontier of investing.

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Yeah, I think investing is such
a particular industry, right. We happen

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to have a really good understanding of
it because it's an industry that we do

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so much work in. But I
think one of the biggest idiosyncrasies of it

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is that investment firms are making private
equity investments and then have a very limited

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timeframe over which those investments play out, which then prompts the question of what

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are the biggest drivers of value in
an investment? And that's what the article

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is about, or one of the
topics that it touches upon. So in

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this article you speak about the next
frontier of due diligence in the investment process

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being hiring a deeper, broader pool
of talent and having the right organizational architecture

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in place to enable high performance execution. So why don't you delve into a

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little bit about like what do you
mean by this? Because there are a

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lot of big word yeah and big
concepts, and how do these two elements

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lead to improved value creation? So
I think if you start at the beginning

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and you ask the question of what
are the key value drivers of value creation

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and investments, one of the things
at the very top of that list is

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human capital, right, and that's
the leadership team, the management team of

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these companies. Traditionally, in private
equity, there wasn't much of an emphasis

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on a data driven methodology to actually
assess management teams. Right. There were

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lots of There was lots of financial
diligence, There was a lot of diligence

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around product market fit, around market
sizing, etc. But traditionally there hasn't

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been a ton of diligence around talent. And I would also argue until several

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years ago, the awareness level of
their being a variety of different assessment tools

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that can actually give you a data
driven view of an individual and a team

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didn't exist. Today, we're in
a very different world and This is why

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best in class investment firms are embracing
these tools of talent assessment to help them

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wrap their arms around one of the
biggest value drivers that's going to drive the

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outcomes of their investing management team effectiveness, which is which is great because that

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segues wonderfully into our next question,
which is you state in this article that

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it remains the single most important factor
determining the success actual success of an investment.

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So why don't we define for our
audience today what we mean by effectiveness

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here? Right? Because that is
a very term, the term where you

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could interpret a lot from it.
And why is it the most important factor?

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And how does one determine how effective
a team is? That's a great

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question. So I think the reason
that management team effectiveness is such a critical

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driver is that you can have the
best laid plans, and if a management

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team isn't able to execute on those
plans, then the plan falls apart,

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right, and the investment falls apart. In many instances, management team effectiveness

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is really driven by three pillars which
we spend a lot of time thinking about

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and working with coaching customers and coaches
at at idemics, which are clarity around

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roles, alignment among those roles,
and then last the communication and collaboration among

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a management team. If any of
those three things doesn't exist, there isn't

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either clarity around what each person's role
is, there isn't alignment around how all

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of those roles fit together, and
that team is not able to communicate and

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collaborate effectively in service of executing on
the investment plan, then things fall apart.

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So basically, if there isn't clarity, if there isn't alignment, and

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if there isn't collaboration, then we
could say the team is in effective exactly.

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So then that leads to the question, is it how do we go

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about diagnosing an ineffective team and then
how do we turn around ineffective team?

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Yeah, that's a great question.
So I think to answer the first question

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of how do you actually diagnose whether
a team is effective or not? Let's

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go back to the assessment tools,
right, What are the assessment tools do?

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There are a variety of different assessment
tools. There are, there's a

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suite of six to eight and assessment
tools that are really best in class and

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most appropriate to a professional services investment
firm environment. And what those assessment tools

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allow us to get at our individual
personality, individual professional skills, and then

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most importantly, perhaps how both of
those knit together across a team to either

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render that team effective or not effective. So here's an example. If you

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had a CEO who scored very low
on vision and strategy and was very high

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on risk aversion, that's probably not
a great set of qualities to have in

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a CEO because that person absolutely needs
to be driving vision, strategy and execution.

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On the other hand, if you
had a CFO or a COO,

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both of which are roles really that
are tossed with keep the trains running on

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time and moving forward, and they
had no attention to detail, no clarity

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and ability to delegate roles effectively and
manage process as well, then they're not

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particularly effective in those roles. And
so this picture that the assessment tools give

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us is is the talent set and
the capabilities across this management team one that's

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going to knit together and work well
well or there are some key strengths and

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talents that are really missing. And
it allows investment firms to look at that

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picture and then form a view on
Hey, this management team, the CFO,

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the COO, and the CEO are
great, but we now need a

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chief revenue officer, or we need
a head of sales, and that person

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needs to have this set of complementary
skills that fit well with the existing management

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team. So it's like taking a
you're basically creating a map or a puzzle,

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shall we say, of an executive
management team. You're saying, I

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have all these pieces, but I
actually then need also these additional pieces.

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So when I'm bringing in somebody new, or perhaps I'm I'm trying to grow

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the talent that I have, I'm
doing it for these gaps. Exactly.

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Think of a management team as a
puzzle, and if the pieces all fit

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together, then you get puzzle completion. And if you're missing a piece in

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this set of talents and skills that
we're looking for in a management team,

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then the puzzle doesn't complete. So
I think, you know, we started

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to segue into the work that we
particularly have been doing in this space because

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we have now a track record of
working with clients in this way to basically

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complete these puzzles. To draw the
analogy, So what have we seen,

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what have our clients said with the
right coach, what sort of feedback have

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we heard in these cases? So
I think there are two things that have

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really stood out to me from the
variety of feedback that we get, both

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from the coaches as well as the
board members to whom these c suite teams

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report in the end, and those
two things are that from a board perspective,

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they see a clear raising of the
game and a clear positive change in

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the way that the management team is
both working with and using the board,

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communicating with the board, and executing
on strategy, as evidenced by the performance

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right and the results the financial results. Second, we've heard very consistently from

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CEOs and their direct reports the rest
of the c suite team that in each

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case, even in cases where individuals
have been averse to coaching or not understood

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the value of the coaching because of
the hybrid approach that we use, where

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some of the work happens in a
team based coaching session, but equally some

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of it happens in individual sessions,
that even people who felt it would not

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deliver value to them have derived huge
value from it, in fact, to

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the point where some of those skeptics
end up becoming the biggest users of the

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coach's time, and really the reason
that they do this is because in achieving

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greater clarity around what they're meant to
be doing, how that aligns with the

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rest of the team and the efforts
underway, and the rest of the operational

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areas of the business, and their
own communication collaboration with one another. It

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works a lot more smoothly, and
as a result, they feel they're achieving

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their results and sort of achievement against
plan a lot faster, and it's actually

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providing them an accelerant to their own
performance individually and as a team, but

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also ultimately to the business's performance.
That's amazing. So let's hypothesize where we've

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got a team, they're super effective, We've got all the right skills.

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Is there any reason to bring in
a coach for a team that's already deemed

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effective? And if so, why
so? I think? And it's a

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great thing to draw an analogy here
for a second, which is effective management

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teams are like high performance athletes,
and high performance athletes, even when they

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are at the peak of their success, are constantly asking the question what should

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I be doing better or differently?
Right? Like, what's the next thing?

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How do I keep improving? How
do I set off that flywheel of

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continuous improvement. That's exactly the question
that effective managers constantly ask themselves. When

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that question is asked, I think
managers quickly realize that the best person or

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the most well equipped person to provide
an objective view on the individuals and the

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team is a coach. It's not
a board member or a mentor or some

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other party with some other interest effectively
in the the team or the individual or

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the company. Right. It is
a true outsider who's a trained professional as

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a coach in the variety of methodologies
and assessment tools that we use, who's

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able to act as a thought partner
to these individuals and teams and give them

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a view in a completely confidential environment
of trust to actually help them do their

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best work. Yeah, it's it's
interesting as we've been talking about coaching as

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a performance enhancement tool rather than a
remedial tool, right, So, like

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you know, I I've also been
contemplating why is it that you know you

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can have somebody and we've had our
clients tell us that you can have somebody

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within the team that's telling sort of
this person who maybe is struggling that they

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need to be doing X right,
they need to be leading better whatever it

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is, and for some reason that
advice when it comes from somebody internally is

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not as impactful or as effective,
or maybe it just doesn't get through in

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the same way as when it's coming
from an independent party. And I don't

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necessarily have an answer for this,
but I've been thinking about why is that.

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Well. I think we all bring
our own cognitive biases to each situation,

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right, and those biases are very
much driven And there's a whole body

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of research on this that these biases
are very much driven by the person delivering

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the feedback. So when we hear, for example, from a peer or

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even a boss, that we should
know do X, y or Z to

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improve a B or C, we
receive it in a particular way that is

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rife with that cognitive bias, and
in a sense, it occludes our hearing.

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We don't actually hear what's being said. We hear sort of what we

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want to hear through the lens of
how we perceive that person in our relationship.

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I think when a coach delivers exactly
the same feedback, it's coming from

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an objective third party who's not only
delivering you that feedback, but then is

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your trusted party with whom you can
be vulnerable and you can have an honest

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discussion about a behavior that you might
have or a mannerism that you might have

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that might be leading to then an
unconstructive situation at work. You're just never

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going to be able to do that
with a boss or a set of peers

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or a set of direct reports,
right, And I think that's where the

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coach is not only able to get
you to hear a piece of feedback and

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a piece of advice, but also
work with you in a very tactical,

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practical way to help you interpret that
advice. So how do I actually do

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this in my workplace tomorrow and next
week, in the following week, and

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then hold you accountable for actually trying
it, coming back to them and reporting

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on how that went. Oh this
work, This other thing didn't work.

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Let's change it up, Let's try
this other approach. That entire process of

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iteration is only something that you can
go through with a coach. Yeah.

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I think also just getting to your
point in general, you as the coach.

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He will have an openness to a
coach that you will not have to

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all these people that you know,
right, because you're you're you've already formed

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a relationship habit with whoever that individual
is, right, and so I think

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that maybe your mind is open.
I also think that a coach provides an

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environment, just thinking about the accountability
piece, where it's safe to fail.

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Absolutely, that is such a great
point. Yeah, so it's like if

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you if it doesn't if they tell
you to try something it doesn't work out,

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there's no repercussion exactly exactly, whereas
a workplace, that's never the sentiment.

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Right. We live in a workplace
that is defined by constant evaluation and

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performance reviewing, and that's constructive,
but what that's created is a void which

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is now the space that's being filled
by coaching and by coaches that creates an

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environment where someone actually can ask the
self aware and introspective questions of how do

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I do this thing? Or why
do I behave this way? Or how

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can I make this better? Yeah? Absolutely, absolutely, And so you

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know, we've been talking about this
in the context of investment, but you

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know, and we largely have worked
with professional services firms. But the work

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that we're doing for alignment, clarity
and collaboration, is it particular to sort

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of that type of situation or is
it applicable to other industries. It applies

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across the board, and when you
talk to CEOs today, whether it's the

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conversations we're having or what you read
in the research, the single biggest worry

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that CEOs have is leadership development.
Right. They all feel that they're struggling

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somehow to develop a bench of talent
that then can stand the company in good

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stead going forward. One of the
reasons for this, and there was an

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article just recently about this in the
Financial Times, talked about how the everyday

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demands of most leaders are in a
sense so overwhelming that it leaves no room

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for that introspective moment of how can
I do this differently, And there's no

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thought partnership, as we said earlier, because you're in an environment which is

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fundamentally competitive. I think that,
particularly in the age of AI, as

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we think about how the world is
going to change as a result of AI,

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the biggest change is going to be
that what we call soft skills today

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are going to become hard skills because
a lot of the simple technical tasks will

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be outsourced to the AI, but
the skills of managing a team, managing

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a process, collaborating across borders,
or across distributed teams or even among teams

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that are all sitting together, all
of those tasks fall to leaders, and

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without individuals having leadership and management skills, companies will just experience reduced productivity.

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And do you think that, for
example today, that's something that business schools

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are teaching future business leaders. So
I went to business school hundred years ago

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at this point, but yes,
based on some of our conversations with,

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for example, Professor Amy Edmondson or
Professor Madupa Akinola, there are now a

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number of professors at business schools thinking
about topics like in the case of Madupay,

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stress and anxiety and the impact of
that on leaders and teams, right,

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psychological safety in the case of Amy
Edmondson and the impact of that on

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organizations and teams. Francis Fry's work
where she in fact went into uber to

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rebuild trust in an organization where trusted
really being destroyed. So all of these

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topics are of paramount importance. As
companies grow in scale, it's very different

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to manage tiny teams that are effectively
startups with not a lot to lose,

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compared to larger, more scaled organizations
with a reputation to guard and ensuring that

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delivery is as consistent over time is
really all about the organization's culture. And

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if you can't define a culture that
is a safe environment of innovation but also

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acknowledgment of mistakes and a mechanism to
teach people to do things differently or better

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than how does one progress? And
I guess that then circles us back to

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what we've been talking about today,
which is the importance of role clarity,

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alignment, and collaboration amongst the management
teams so that they can take an organization

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and help build a culture, particularly
amongst large organizations that enables people to thrive

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absolutely effectively. When you think about
most investment firms, they're buying companies that

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are transitioning from one stay to another, going from small to medium or medium

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to large, or they're getting ready
for some other transaction, or they're acting

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as aggregators in their industry, whatever
that may be. But there's some sort

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of significant step change that is going
to be expected of the company operationally over

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this investment period of three to five
years. Given that this question of management

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team effectiveness is all the more important, and increasingly, I think over the

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last five to ten years, we've
seen as the markets and the politics,

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the geopolitics have become more volatile,
companies have had to deal with a set

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of external inputs that affect their industries
and their businesses in all sorts of different

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ways, and so it's led to
a more complex task in terms of managing

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teams and organizations and businesses than ever
before. And that's here to stay.

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It seems like, yeah, it's
not going away, that's for sure.

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So if any of our any of
our audience members would like to read the

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article that you wrote, where can
they find it. It's on pe hub

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and it's it's a short piece,
under eight hundred words, and it really

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talks about why this is such an
important driver as we've talked about, but

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also how we do this work and
why this work works in a sense.

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Great, well, thank you everybody
for joining us today and we look forward

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to to you joining us for the
next episode of Coaching for Performance and Wellness.

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Thank you so much, thanks for
listening. Please subscribe wherever you listen

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00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.680
and leave us a review. Find
your ideal coach at www dot viidmix dot

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com. Special thanks to our producer
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