To it's the Internet. You're busy, let's do this. Welcome to the
Game Mest Decides Podcast. This is the podcast where we decide everything about the
world of games, so you never have to think for yourself. I'm your
host Jeff Grubb and with me is Sean Turbo Shan McDowell. In today's episode,
Mike Manati is certainly already riddled with boat disease. So let's talk about
Disney without him. We will probably do that, but we got a bunch
of stuff happening in this show. There's a bunch of news to talk about.
Shawn's gonna yell at me about a bunch of things. I'm sure.
First, how you doing. I'm pretty good. I'm very tired because I
have been planning some stuff over Red Giant Bomb and that's been a lot of
work. Yes, I'm I'm like also planning stuff and my mine is like
a little bit further away and yet still been a ton of work. So
I know exactly what you're talking about where it's just, oh my god,
it's like a hurting a million cats. They don't even know they need to
be hurt. I literally use that term there day. Yeah, yes,
yes, so it's it's a real pain. Although now that like people are
through October and like like look up, looked up. They're like, oh,
yeah, are you guys? You're doing that thing for Game of the
Year. So now people are starting to respond to me, and that's helping
a little bit. But uh, I got to send out a big,
big, big big email tomorrow with all the details for everybody and then we'll
kind of continue it from there. But yeah, yeah, it's uh got
extra life coming up, we got it. We're gonna be traveling. Me
and Mike's gonna be traveling to Minnesota for that here in a couple of weekends.
Mike is out for some time. He won't be here this today,
he won't be here next week's episodes. He's on a well deserved vacation.
So seut I's hanging out with me tonight. We're gonna get into a bunch
of this stuff. I don't know, shot real quick, just like,
what's what's your gaming life been like for the last couple of weeks? Non
existent, jeffire I'm so busy during the week then on the weekend. I
mean we'll talk about at the end of course, but I've been playing just
like the big games that come out as they come out, I will say,
since it's on the rundown here, like man, that Pokemon DLC is
coming out, Like the first one came out, the next one's coming out.
I haven't even touched the first one yet. It's just been hit after
hit after it hit. Like I was looking at the calendar of the other
day, I was just like, man, ever since what was the first
one that started this all? It was like since Armored Corpse six, We've
just been sure and stop with something to play constantly. You got that,
you got Starfield, you got Cyberpunk, you got Moral Kombat, like it's
insane. So I'm I'm just looking forward to me finally beating some of these
games, and then games slowing down so night play some more stuff. Yeah.
I got a pretty good role there where I beat like three games in
a week. I beat Sonic, I beat Mario, which aren't big long
games, but I also beat God what I did beat up big one in
there Now I can't even remember what it was, but but it's and then
I'm like, okay, so I'm gonna try to take to carry that moment
them forward. And now I'm playing Allen Wake and Balder's Kate three, and
there was something else in there, and I'm like, with some of these
are just there's no way I'm finishing them. Balder Skate three I almost certainly
will never finish, but I'm gonna enjoy playing what I can of that whatever.
But I don't Wake two. I'm like restarted that on stream today and
now I'm gonna play that stream. So I played that game for now somewhere
between five to seven hours total, and I'm about, you know, two
hours in when when you're just going by, like the way the Crowe plays
games where it's like, hey, if you just don't, you know,
beat around the bush too much and just keep going forward, about two hours
into that game, so it's like, okay, and it's a twenty hour
game. We'll see, we'll see how am I able to get through that.
I am enjoying it more this as I like restarted things here, I
just noticed something, Hey a reporter, Oh oh my god, I just
look, I'm that person hearing Jeth say something that he doesn't know about.
So, but I do you beat Spider Man two? That's the longer?
Yeah, spider Man two, thank you. That's that's a hey, yeah,
I'm my memory there just calling in. Apparently you know someone pointing this
out there night. For a man who doesn't like other people intruding on his
podcast, he sure does like popping into other podcasts. Does Oh, Mike
Manatti doing something he doesn't like what other people do. I can tell you
what he would say when I do, And it's funny, like Mike,
that's that's my Mike Manatty impression. Everybody. Uh yeah, I listen,
Mike. You keep interrupting all you need to. That's completely fine. It's
your fucking show. If you need to do that, go to town.
Uh all right, you know what, there's there's not a ton happens,
so let's just start this show. You can get more from Sean, Mike
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from last weekend because I ended up going longer on the Nintendo Shack podcast than
I expected, So we're going to be doing that this weekend. I've already
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feel free to join that. And if you want to participate in that,
you'll have to be a Patreon number or join through the Twitch or one of
the other ways. But Patreon is our preferred way. If that works for
you, all right, Sean, I got a bunch of news topics here.
You ready to jump in as it go. Bungee had a bad week
because they had to lay out Yes, one hundred people have been laid off,
and they handled it pretty poorly. And it's kind of they're struggling to
explain why it was necessary in the first place, other than, hey,
Destiny two's in a really bad place, which okay, fair, but you
just were acquired by a major corporation. You would think that you would want
to grit through this and get to the other side instead of immediately hitting the
panic button. They had, you know, a bunch of facets of this.
People have heard the story a bunch of times. Basically, Pete Parsons
had a tweet that made it look like we don't know who did this,
it was him. Then he had an internal moment memo where he told the
people who remained, Hey, we have the right people as opposed to the
wrong people still here making making this game, and they're gonna be the people
that we need. That didn't look great, uh, And now they're basically
out trying to plead with fans to be like we get it. You're mad,
we've lost your trust. We're gonna try to earn it back by making
Destiny too good again. It's a tough situation, one that makes me just
want to avert my gaze as someone who's not into Destiny. And for Destiny
fans, it feels like morale was already low and now this is an even
lower point somehow. Yeah, I don't think of all this, it's bullshit.
This, none of this makes sense because you know the numbers more and
I do. But a sizable portion of their acquirement money of hell one billion
yep was designed to keep people on and you know, keep people happy through
the transition or anything like that. And now what are they doing laying off
a giant chunk? So what the hell happened there? Yeah? So that,
I mean, it's weird thing, but you're not wrong because that money
designed to keep people around. And the way that this gets twisted is I
think Bunchie would be like, yes, it's here to keep the right people
around, it's here to keep it's here to keep the important people around.
It's here to prevent a brain train, and those people haven't left, and
it's well, it seems like some of them have left. Maybe some of
those should leave because hey, maybe some people are the problem, not everyone
who's actually working on the game, right. And so that money anytime,
that money was a set aside so that people wouldn't take immediately take their money
and then go and leave. And then basically what Sony has purchased is a
big ip but not a lot of talent. And they were very interested in
getting the talent of Bungie to help them with their big live gaming you know,
games as a service initiative. That was going to be their other pillar
posted to the pillars that they have now, which is massive Triple A,
Blockbusters and a really strong, robust PlayStation network service. So yeah, but
so that money that was set aside is going to be in the form of
likely unvested stock. The people that were laid off will no longer get that
stock vested now because they've definitely been laid off before most of that money would
have vested. I, you know, Giant Bomb was acquired and I got
a little bit of stock as part of that, and the stuff just started
to vest a little bit ago, and it's like, well, yeah,
that's nothing unless I stick around for a certain period of time and then it
will be worth something down the line or something like that. Then that's so
it's a matter of years. And it's just the thought that that could be
taken away from me because someone of the late would lay me off and then
that those stock, that stock would return to the company. That's infuriating.
That's beyond bullshit. I don't even know what to call that other than vile.
Yeah, it absolutely is. Like this whole situation is such it's such
a question mark because you sit here and the people who are laid off are
you know, like pr and social and then developers who you know, are
the for lack of a better term, boots on the ground, people in
the office doing the work on the day of day, you know, not
necessarily be its idea of people who aren't putting the work in not saying it's
not work, but you know what I mean, like they're not like getting
their hands dirty in the traditional sense in game dev. That's a problem because
guess what, if you won't have a dev team to make games, you
can't make games. This is so baffling to me that that those would be
the type of like, you know, I'm not saying anyone should be layoff.
But if you if like pr social that kind of thing got laid off,
you would be like, well, this fucking sucks. But at least,
like sure you could see the redundancy of that being run in a major
corporation, like yeah, listen, we could save some money. Who let
other divisions and Sony do this? And it's exactly that sucks. But you
see how that logic works. But I wouldn't say it would be justified.
But it's like, oh, okay, I get where you're going. You
get why corporations do that. They have a responsibility their shareholders, blah blah
blah, just motion and all that stuff. Yeah, but it's more than
that, Like it's it's it's key creatives, people responsible for the sights and
sounds that defined a game that is not just I mean in a big part
known for having incredible sights and sounds. Yeah, like composers and shit.
And it's like, how you you can't just get those people back, dude
by like hiring Joe Schmoe has been the industry six months, Like that ain't
gonna happen. So yeah, it's just absolutely baffling all this, Like this
this is the kind of thing that pisses me off in particular, Like not
not to delve too far into this because it's a bit of tangent, but
it's like, I'm the kind of guy who sort of came up from nothing,
so my life has sort of been always screwed over by stupid reach rich
people making stupid decisions, and so I see something like this, I'm like,
this is stupid, rich people making stupid decisions, and so it just
infuriates me because yeah, all these people, all these hardworking people, are
the ones who got the accent. That's just completely shitty. So Destiny's interrupt
spot of the revenue missed projections by forty five percent. I think people are
right to point out why are projections that high? In part, they're that
high because they need to be that high. That's how these things often work.
Another part of it is projections are set in a time when reality is
different than it is now. You know, you're coming out of the pandemic
and people know the pandemic's not going to keep the same level of success.
But you made a lot of money, and you're like, well, we're
going to take some of that money and we're going to reinvest it, and
we're going to try to make big things happen. So let's aim for the
Shoot for the Stars. And then you come out and it's like, oh
man, there's a bunch of games that people would rather play right now than
Destiny too, And there's just nothing we can do about that because our last,
our last expansion actually wasn't too exciting to most people. But yeah,
Destiny two down. And then Destiny's next expansion was delayed even before all this
happened because apparently the quality wasn't there. They were worried about it not having
it not being good enough as well, so they were already pushing that until
later into twenty twenty four, and now that's going to probably be even more
difficult to deliver now that they have eight percent less people on their staff.
And then Marathon, their extraction shooter that they debuted a little bit ago that
looks promising in terms of style, was delayed from twenty twenty three to twenty
twenty four. Is that right? Is you know, excuse me, twenty
twenty four to twenty twenty five. I forgot what year it was, twenty
twenty four to twenty twenty five, And that there's more reporting coming out now
that a bunch of Tarkoff players were invited to come play it and when asked
if the game released tomorrow, would you spend any time with it? And
not a single one of them raise their hand. So a game that is
probably going to be in a rough position for a pretty long time, and
even when we get to twenty twenty five, no guarantees that they're going to
have figured out how to keep up with the joneses whether people are still going
to care about extraction shooters by then. So that's that's sart of the problem
with the strategy in general, because this is something that we'll talk about a
layer topic, But how do you pull people away from one game that they
are, you know, invested in and this is where they spend their time.
This is where like even I do it, as you know the quote
unquote core a gamer. I hop on a discord called My Buddies once a
week and we just play some street fighters, some Call of Duty like whatever
we're into at the time, and that's our thing. We don't need other
things because we have thing. So that's why this entire thing is a risk.
You're always just trying to like get Lightning and Strike twice and good luck,
and it's I mean, and as I always say when this comes up,
it's you're not competing with just other live service games, and you're competing
with everything that a person could possibly be distracted by, and just in gaming
this year, obviously we see that's a very busy year with a lot of
distractions. And you know that's a problem for big games, like big games
that aren't live service, those also have to compete with everything including live service,
so it works both ways. But uh, it just you know,
this conversation always brings us back to the same point. We've got. We've
gotten to this point with like all these conversations for all these companies for the
last several months. They are they've grown, and they grew a lot during
through the pandemic, and they were set up to like do something big,
and a lot of the companies were like, Okay, we've got a lot
of money, and we know how to make a bunch of other stuff.
We're pretty good at making all these other games. Let's go into live service.
And now a lot of them realizing that's not necessarily going to be the
answer, and then the scary thing is they don't know what the alternative answer
is. Right, this conversation should should sound familiar if you've been watching the
show. But it's the truth. It's the truth for Sony, it's going
to be the truth for Bungee. Underneath Sony that that, yeah, they
don't know what to do with all of this these resources, because it's there
is just no obvious solution to how to we how to we keep this growth
happening. I think making really good games seems to be one thing, but
when it comes to like something like Sony, we're talking about, Yeah,
yeah, making really good good games, we get that, but those are
two hundred and fifty million dollar projects, and we commonly have so many of
those at a time. Those are really difficult to get to spool up.
And we're not going to suddenly shift Bungie back into making those kinds of games
after their expertise has been in these live service games. So again, what's
the answer for Bungie. Nobody knows, including the people at Sony and at
Bungee. And that's why you get these panicky moments. I think, right,
like I said, it's this entire, this entire kurfuffle is one big
question mark that no one knows the answer to because things have spun control in
so many different ways, and just unsustainability, I think is the word of
the day a lot of the time, where you can't keep doing this and
maybe you know not not to fall down this rabbit hole ei there. But
maybe that speaks to giants Triple A games being the draw of singular console.
That's why you see PlayStation expanding in our directions. And maybe they're not picking
the perfectly right things, but they are doing stuff like, you know,
putting their games on PC and trying to expand out word like that. I
don't know. These are all questions that nobody has the exact answer for,
right alween say, is that we can see here you didn't have the answers
on this one. Yeah, And I mean these questions, it's like,
well, why is it suddenly all happening in this year where it's the best
year ever for games and a lot of people's opinions and a lot of money
is being made and a lot of money as we made more money made by
the industry this year than last year. It's down about it's up by like
a billion across the industry. This year compared to last year, it's down
about two billion from the height of the pandemic. But everyone understood that was
going to happen. Most people undersouod that was going to happen. So the
idea that it's like dipping out the pandemic and then immediately bouncing back up,
that's a good sign. So we should be in a pretty strong position.
So why all these layoffs. Well, I mean, the reality is these
questions have been lingering for a long time of you look at all these publishers
that have been hovering around the same market capitalization. Their value has been in
about the same place for a really long time. EA has been, you
know, about between eighty to one hundred dollars per share or something like that
for years and years and years and years. And they're like, okay,
well we're going to We're always looking for the next place to grow. We've
maxed out what we can get from EA Sports and all these other things.
We're going to try to take it to the next level. It's like,
well, what does that look like? More live service games? We've said
for forever and now we're getting back in the single player games, but more
live service games. And they were funding that through low interest rates and cheap
capital that was available for years and years and years and years after the two
thousand and eight collapse, where interest rates were just so low for so so
long, and then the second that that faucet got turned off, it's like,
we cannot just fund this out of nowhere. Now, this money needs
to come from somewhere. It's like, what, isn't it coming from these
games. It's like, no, Actually, all that money's spoken for.
It's already spoken for. So we have to get way more conservative than we
realized, and we're gonna have to tighten up shop and and you know,
we say have to. They don't have to, but I think these companies
think they have to because they're scared. They don't know what's coming next,
and they're a very risk adverse and there's a lot of risk out there.
So I don't know when we're going to get on the other side of a
lot of these concerns. Sean, I mean, do you see any light
at the end of the tunnel in any direction? I mean it's hard to
say. With like the dwaves, certain things are heading. I think I
will say I was actually going to bring this up layer when we're talking about
something else, but made this a good point to the PlayStation strategy kind of
baffles me right now, because they're putting out a lot of similar feeling games
that are very expensive to make, and they want you to buy their console
in order to play those. And you know, in this process you will
pick up other games and they will make spend a lot of money on micro
transactions. Yeah, yes, on those and on third party games in general
and stuff like that. But the market is moving towards people, you know,
well, like I said, playing their thing, playing their their war
Zone for free, their Fortnite for free, and so I don't know,
I think that's why, like Microsoft was smart to pivot, Like I know
some people were saying, even just like a year or so ago, like
they're not smart for trying to like shy away from consoles, like what's good.
They're gonna burn consoles, uh, the console fans, and then they're
never going to recover. And I was always like, no, no,
no, no, no no no, They're they're doing something smart here because
they're getting away from that. It's good. It might hurt at first,
but that seems to be a pathword and I think that's working out for them.
I think that's what PlayStation sort of needs to start thinking about, is
like maybe this console strategy isn't the way you go, Like we still have
a strong ecosystem without relying on the box, and I think maybe stuff like
the PlayStation Portal is like sort of trying to get towards that direction. I
just that those those things always just feel like Sony Hardware showed up to PlayStation's
office and like, look what we made. That's what those always feel like
to me. So I don't know, maybe, yeah, go ahead,
I don't know. I was just gonna say, also, like you got
so many ip use some of them, like because these that That's sort why
I started this argument with is like having the prestige gaming, the prestige TV
of gaming is like it's gonna get you all a lot of people when you
do it right, you know, like Spider Man stuff like that. But
what else you got? Because you need to start looking at like some smaller
projects and whatnot. And when they you know, shut down a Japan studio
and stuff like that, I'm like, Okay, that's that's an issue for
compatibility, or yeah, that's that's creativity creativity, and I'm just I don't
know. Uh, I feel like they're spinning their wheels a little bit.
Like someone did point on the chat, you still need a PS five to
make use of the portal. Yeah, that's what blows my mind. And
that's why I'm like every time they're doing something that's us sort of just tilt
my head a little bit and I'm looking at my PS five or there right
now. I'm like, I got our ways to play these games, and
I hope that they can figure out a way to like get their games to
me, because like I would love to play a sound of their incredible stuff.
But yeah, I don't know something about this. All these strategy things
just baying up for me. Yeah, I think for Sony, I think
there's just kind of handcuffed because they can't sort of take the risks that Microsoft
is taking of. Like you said, it might hurt in the short term
with what Microsoft is doing of de emphasizing the console. Yeah, and it's
and really the other side of the other parts of Sony are hurting. That's
a company that is been in a transition for a very long time, and
that transition has mostly been from out of a market into nothing out of making
laptops, out of making computer parts, out of making TVs. You know,
they still make those things, but they just don't sell like TV's they
make. They don't make go laptops anymore, I don't think. But you
know, they still make TVs, but they're just not selling anywhere near what
they used to. They used to make a ton of cameras, and it's
like they still make some pretty good cameras, but they don't sell anywhere near
as well as they used to. They never got smartphones really off of the
ground in the way that other manufacturers did. So it's it's this, the
PlayStation needs to be a balloon and be as big as it needs to be,
like the big scary person trying to scare off the bear of all these
these parts of the company that aren't working, and so they got to be
as big as possible. And if they were to shrink in any way,
it's like, well now they look really vulnerable, and so they're handcuffed.
Yeah, there's that. I guess there's that association there between the PlayStation and
your PlayStation below your TV. But I don't know. I think this entire
topic, like you bring it back around to bungee stuff and everything like that.
I just think everything's going on here is I'm not I'm not going to
claim that the answers. I'm not trying to say that. I'm just saying,
right, some of these questions need to start being raised, and you
know it's up to them to figure out the answers. Yep, And I
think that they are. I don't know. I go back to Jim Ryan
leaving and I said, that makes a lot of sense, for from his
point of view, he will now be remembered as the guy who built up
PlayStation Europe and turned it into a juggernaut, and then was able to shift
that into being a global a global success beyond sort of the not the wildest
imagination, but kind of like replicate what he did in Europe around the world.
And a lot of that stuff was put in place before he was in
charge, but he certainly didn't mess anything up. And now he doesn't have
to be the one that comes up with all these answers, and as these
layoffs start to happen, they won't really be associated with him because he's already
saying he's out the door. So I don't know a lot of this stuff
I think lines up with with that. And who's going to be able to
come here and figure these things out? I don't know, and I do
think when it comes down to it, the answer probably will be believing more
in the kinds of games Sony makes, but just maybe in a broader,
more varied way than they have, and doing it in up and down the
budget tiers, not just in that two hundred and fifty million dollar budget tier.
Find a way to get Nintendo like successes from something that cost fifty to
one hundred million dollars in stea and if they, I mean, you know,
Sony's probably never gonna have a game still like an Animal Crossing that sells
thirty five million copies out of nowhere, But if you are, if you
have a game that's fifty million dollars to make and selling fifteen million copies,
that would be huge. And it's like they've taught there, there's PlayStation audience
a little bit different. So yeah, that's what was in the back of
my head when I brought up like Japan series and stuff like where's your High
Fi Rush? Yeah, you know, like slap on your beloved EPs on
there, do so on small and like utilize those to like make something that
will you know, really take off with people like I don't know, make
something that is like a low budget like Hooper game or so on. Try
different things, because that's that's all I want to sell right now? Bring
back kill Zone or instead, how about make a God of War Ragnarok DLC
that could possibly be a standalone expand alone if you will shout out to us
special Nick for coming up with that term expand alone God of where Ragnrock is
rumored to be getting a DLC that will be a by the end of the
year. That THELC is said to be a mid size project, similar to
Miles Morales. The announcement could come at the Game Awards in December. And
so I just like everything about this, Like I love the way that this
sounds when it comes to just like getting a game that I could be excited
about, a mid size project that that has all the all the momentum of
the effort that went into a full size, big budget game that's so much
shit because it's like, oh, this is easy to tackle. I'm not
I'm not play that original game. I'm just gonna hop into this. I
love this. I don't know, how do you feel about it? So?
I haven't played Ragnarrock yet because, as I mentioned the last topic,
I feel a little fatigued from the sort of PlayStation style right now. Sure,
I mean you mean both, yeah, I mean, man, they're
sorry in that pit that Xbox fell into last generation where everything was a shooter,
like, yeah, they got everything is like a third person I want
it. It's definitely. It's definitely in a better situation than Max's Best.
Yes, because, like you know, Spider Man and Spider Man very well
put together games. Right, It's not the same type of thing. It's
just the same type of uh pit, it's the same kind of craft.
But they are the masters of that particular craft. I am. I give
them that credit. It's just not something I'm super interested anymore. It's right,
I feel like at this point, played it one, you played them
all unless you're super into the stories and they're selling, and they do be
selling, so it's like we you know, we're yes, we're just clearly
not the audience for that. So that's totally fine. You have no no
criticism there. But this, I'll check in on this. Oh yeah,
because if it is a smart that the thing that I like, sorry,
gives me there is Like, if it's a DLC, we'll see, Because
my interest in Ragnarac was kind of low, you know, I love God
eighteen. I was just it if it is as Miles Morales is the Spider
Man twenty eighteen. Then then on the swoard Ragnarak and just played this and
said, because that's for a couple of hours of Ragnarak. But I would
I would. I would now go back and play it and I would just
jump right into this exactly because like Miles Morales, I played that. It's
it's my favorite of the Spider Man games Insomniac has made, because it feels
just like this tight thing that they didn't, you know, want to inflate
too much. It is a expand alone, but it's very manageable, and
so if they do that to the guy war well, I'm probably on board
for that. I like the sound of this. Meanwhile, over at Sega,
they say fuck midsize games. The first super game is making steady progress,
still targeting a twenty twenty six release. Sean, I just don't know
what to make the ball this. Sega is still aiming to release its super
game by the end of fiscal year twenty twenty six question, which I think
would be by March twenty twenty six. Yeah, go ahead, what the
fuck is the super game? Yeah? Man, OK, very good question.
Shawn's got your answer. So this is what gets me because their language
has changed. Originally, super game, right, not a game. They
were just saying the Super Game initiative, where they're like, you know,
it was like a business ye way of saying, we're gonna just throw shit
at the wall. Are you telling me that Sega worked themselves into a shoot
They worked themselves into a shuper Brother Thank god that matter? No, Yeah,
like that was the original plans. They're like, yeah, we're just
going to try new things, and you know, some of those are going
to be bigger projects SPA, So we're going to bring back older projects basically
what I was talking about just a little bit ago. And now it seems
like, yeah, they're looking for their one. So I don't know what's
happening over there. The next story too, I don't know what that was
going on over at Sega right out, Jeff, Yeah, and lots of
stuff's happened at Sega. Siga says they want to catch up to Mario and
then surpass him. In an interview, segas Osamu Ohashi, Yeah, yeah,
they're close enough, and Sachiko Kawa Mura Saschiko, Yes, yes,
Sashachiko Sachiko Kawa Mura discussed their plans for the future of the Sonic brand.
They say that their goal is to surpass Mario. They said that's always been
their goal, and they say they respect Mario as a competitor, and they
want Sonic to be played all over the world just like Mario, and they
want the Sonic movies to do even better than Mario. And I think this
is an insane thing to say and kind of cute. I'm glad that they
still are keeping that rivalry earning and saying that like it's it's it's funny because
it's you know, Don Draper on the elevator with the guy saying I pity
you or I feel sorry for you, and then Don Draper goes, I
don't think about you at all. Mario does not think about Sonic at all.
But I think this is cute that they're still like, no, we
want to be that big. That's the guy that's it's always been the guy
that we want to beat. And it's so funny because if they were talking
about the IP and as a whole, I would say totally attainable, because
like before the Mario movie, I would have absolutely said, Sonic is bigger
with the kids right now, So like that makes sense. You know,
he's got the cartoon, he's he has toys and stuff like that. You
know, Nintendo wasn't really doing like they're they're out there, but were they
were slow to merchandise in general. I mean that stuff definitely picked up after
the WEU and Wada did the strategy change and being like, God, we
gotta do more licensing because we've got to have something to buffer against new future
failures. And so since then they've been picking up the pace. But not
like Sonic and Sega they which has always had that stuff. Sonic has always
been about being cross media. That cool character from the nineties like kind of
just persisted and like for whatever reason works, Like kids still find him cool.
And I look at Sonic and I'm like, I mean, I think
he's cool. I don't know why you think he's cool, but I don't
think he's cool. So whatever, it seems to be working. Yeah,
with the movies and everything, kids love those and it's like, Okay,
that's the fact that they are like the games and stuff. I'm like,
m I mean, I asked this to Jan today, and I want,
like, do you think Wonder pushes them at all? Like, do you
think that makes them actually be like, Oh, if we're going to keep
up with the Jones, is we have to actually try to do that.
Do you think they were ever put out a game that's sort of like dream
Sequences and stuff like that, or I don't know. I mean, let's
just say that they might put out a three D action player platform were called
Sonic dream Team for the Apple Arcade. Sonic dream Team is a three D
action platform or coming to Apple Arcade on December fifth, and the game Sonic
and his friends must stop Doctor Egman from using the Reverie, an ancient device
that can manifest dreams in the real world. Players will or mind bending dream
worlds, fight bosses, and collect toys of their favorite Sonic characters. I
think this looks really good, Like it's pretty looking too, because platform,
Yeah, it looks like a Generations mixed with elements of Frontiers game. Yeah,
but yes, right, like but but with like you said for me,
my touchdown would be like Sonic CD or something like that. But but
like, whatever, this looks good. You mean Sonic CD. What the
hell are you talking about? It just looks like if Sonic CD, if
you brought that forward and kept kept turn that into a three D game and
and kind of I don't know. Just the art style is all I mean.
Like, okay, okay, just the underlying aesthetics is what I mean.
Okay, Because I know I didn't play your bors bullshit game. What
is it? Generations? You said are colors? I don't know which will
Oh, we're seeing you down playing generations anywhere. I don't know such things,
but we are seeing you don I already got to play club game,
all right? You got anything else to say about this? I just are
you gonna play it? I don't own Apple devices? What I look like
an idiot? Yeah? I keep saying I'm gonna get one of these devices
to play these Apple Arcade games, and then I never do because I don't
want to buy a fucking Apple device. No. I've thought about buying an
Apple TV at this point, yeacause it's like you don't lack of many I
keep going back and forth. Yeah, I we'll get the Apple tea because
like you know, they're being youn for like one hundred bucks an now it's
like it's connected wire Bluetooth controllers. Like there's enough on Apple Arcade that I
would like consider it. But also we get announcements that like you know,
Fantasian and stuff like that is coming out right six months later. Yeah,
yeah, it's like whoever, I'll wait. Uh Atari is acquiring Digital Clips.
This is part of them acquiring Nightdive Studios to be like the retro gaming
brand. I think this is pretty cool. Digital Clips right now, that's
known for that gold Master series where they're doing the making of Karatica and then
they did Atari fifty. Yeah, so they have very good relations here,
like and I think if this is going to be Atari's efforts and these are
the kinds of teams that they're targeting, I'm all in favor of it.
I think this is a really cool thing. Yeah. I think this just
makes a lot of sense. So good on them. I wazi more of
this, like treating retro history with care, with like the you know,
like they did with stuff like Atari fifty and One Night. I think these
sort of partnerships are the way to do it. And you know, as
long as everyone's happy in transitions wink wink, then you know everything's cool,
right, Like, Yeah, I think it makes a ton of sense.
And if I think it's a really smart place for Atari to be a brand
that has been so used and abused for so long and tossed around and bought
by one person in the next who never cared or like they didn't understand,
but they never even cared to understand that was never going to even enter their
brain to try to figure out the importance of Atari to the point where now
Atari not very important at all. So like the idea that there's a leadership
there. It's like, hey, we we're going to try to treat this
brand with some reverence, and then we're also gonna just kind of make it
so that that reverence can spread out beyond the boundaries of Atari and treat all
of classic retro gaming as this important thing worth going back to and bringing to
new audiences. I just couldn't be more in favor of it. I just
think that they really have something here. I hope that they're able to continue
it. Wear my Atari Hotel shirt. We don't stand up like I remember
you and Mike just like talking about that way first are mine is laughing,
like what you mean? Atario Hotel. Yeah, they just I'll never get
over them being like, hey man, as soon as it opens, we'll
bite you and you can come stay at the Atario Hotels on opening night,
and then me thinking that's never gonna happen, but please do, please do,
and then of course it's never going to happen and whatever. Don't do
that. That's really fucking stupid. What's not stupid is Atari fifty and the
making note of Krotica and all these other things that you could do now with
these old classic aims that are just that deserve to be remembered. So very
cool. Uh. Finally set up images confirmed. New PS five disk drive
requires online pairing before use. Uh. Basically, you get the new PS
five Slim, every single one comes with an attachment spot for a disk drive.
And if you get the full fat five hundred dollars model dollars right,
Uh, it comes with a disk drive. But it's the same thing as
if you were to get the digital version now and then by a dis drive
later. It works the same way, so that dis drive needs to officially
pair so that the PS five can recognize that as the official drive that is
supposed to work with it, so it gets whitelisted. Basically, Yes,
what's the problem. How I'm gonna like, how am I gonna fuck around
with this shit? If it has to be like connect to the internet,
that's weird. Well, you dirty Argentine pirate. You don't tell me that
you go to prison? Uh? Sean, I tried to like come at
this from a perspective of I get why this scares people, But it's,
like I also said, it's hard for me because I in the long run,
I know, I don't know. I assume that Homebrew is going to
find a way around any of these problems and we're not going to have to
rely on Sony keeping a server up long term. What's the MVG tweet Matters
will fix it? Yeah, motters will fix it, right? And we
should we rely on that? I don't know. In my opinion, it's
better than relying on the companies. That doesn't mean the companies shouldn't be criticized,
and I get people want to do that, which is me opening this
up to you. You got a problem with this, not as much as
you might think because because of what you said, all this is seems to
be We'll see how it pans out, but it seems to be a one
time yes, and it's not like how a lot of people don't know is
how hardware set up now, which is that the drive is intrinsically linked to
the motherboard, so you actually cannot repair your drives right right, there's a
daughter or that like and then then there's like a hard link between them and
that's it's they're attached in more ways than you can imagine, like they just
they just have to be together or else the whole thing doesn't work. Yeah,
well no, no, it's entirely security base. That's the ironic thing
all it. They just lock it down. It's just DRM. So you
like you could buy a new drive. It didn't work for sure, that's
that's definitely right, Yeah, and it won't like in a PS five right
now to my understanding, but certainly like in the PS four before I have
like three sixteen and stuff like that, they were linked so you just like
couldn't You would have to figure out a way to bypass the security at hardware
level. This seems too ironically, you actually fix that because if all it
is is an authentication check. That's actually better, right, because if they
mean the ideally you would be like, well, hey, can I just
unlink the last one and link a new one? Yeah? Right? If
it is as simple as you unplug the last one, you plug in a
new one, the system knows, Okay, I have a different drive because
there's a different ID number I just needed, you know, phone home to
the server, make sure this is an official drive, and then we're good.
And if that's the case, then it's actually not a deal because and
like you said, this is the kind of thing that can be bypassed with
DNS server, so you can absolutely like fake this stuff. Yeah, So
it's not It's annoying and it's not the perfect solution that we will like because
this means that you can't just like you know, hypothetically, if the PS
five is the last PlayStation system with a disk drive, like this isn't going
to save us unfortunately, but like it's you can work around it. But
what I want to talk about, Jeff, this brings us into a mini
topic of the week, what we would do the great physical versus digital debate?
That is wrong with you? Okay, let me lay out my position,
and it's and I'll try to be a little bit more aggressive about it
to keep things interesting. Oh sure, but it starts from a place of
I view video games as experiences. I view the physical games themselves as objects,
and they are unrelated in a lot of ways for me personally. So
I when I see people who collect video games, I believe that is a
different hobby than playing video games. And so when people come to me and
talk about their physical games, it is often difficult for me to disassociate those
two things and be like, well, okay, you have fun, but
I'm busy playing video games. And I know that's shitty. I get that,
but that is help. That's the first place my brain goes to.
Uh. And so when people like the people are like, oh, well,
you know, I just if a game's not gonna have a physical version,
I'm going to be upset about. I'm like, well, what does
that have to do with enjoying the video game? There's all And the fact
that we do have such a robust digital ecosystem now and then we've gone in
that direction has enabled a huge variety of games to come from a huge variety
of places, and it's it's this powerful creative movement and I deeply value that
as opposed to having a wall of objects. That said, I get it
that there are so many benefits of physical games, and therefore I'll open it
up to you. How are you feeling today about the like the physical games
position in the market and its future and everything else involved in it. Okay,
so I'm looking at my shelf right now. I have a grand total
of fifteen physical video games. I am not a collector, yes, but
I am a fan physical media. Yes. What can't tell me why?
That is? Because you are smarter with money than I am. Yes,
because I can sell my games, so I'm done with them because they are
experiences that I always experience once. Yes, I very rarely replay video games.
So if I buy, you know, say the New Mario game and
I play through it, I'm probably only gonna play through that game once.
Doesn't matter how good is. That's just how I am. So and then
put that on eBay and get even like fifty bucks back. That's worth it
to me. I know, I know people there are rental service and whatnot,
But that way, I have the choice. I can keep it if
I want, I can get rid of it. If I want, I
can give to a friend if I want, I have the choice of what
to do with my physical media. That's why I like physical copies because the
problem here, and I think this is what people tend to ignore, the
problem is not the delivery method, because like you're right, you know,
indie games digital has been great for it. But the problem is DRM.
When you buy a digital game, you're buying the right to borrow that game.
It is a license. That's all you're buying is a copy of the
license that can be revoked at any time. And people say like, oh,
you still redownload your digital games. They don't take it that way.
They can though, if you actually read that stuff, you read the eula
and stuff, they can and it has happened in extremely rare cases. Usually
doesn't extremely rare cases. That has happened before. So that's the problem here.
So that's where in the great physical versus digital debase. Sorry this wasn't
you know the blow up people have one. I think where we can come
together in middle DRM free digital is the way forward. Yeah, And I
think that's been something where at one time I'm like that will I wish that
could work that's never going to work, and it's like, I don't know,
the gog has been going just fine and it still works the same exact
way, and their games sell very well still over City Project Read. So
it's like, clearly that that can work and does work, and the convenience
factor can overcome the the piracy effector of a DRM free digital copy. Ideally,
I think we moved to move in the trend of more regulation providing more
rights for digital owners of goods. That would be best. But like if
they did for MP threes, you know, like the music industry is absolutely
huge, and like they moved towards DRM free downloads because people just want the
convenience at the end of the day, and it's like, oh, if
I can pay a reasonable price for an MP three that I can find any
device. Sure cool. And then they moved towards streaming, which was even
more convenient, and guess what, convenience went out in the end. So
we'll see where that goes for games because streaming obviously doesn't work perfectly with games.
Now who knows if you'll ever work perfectly enough to overcome that, But
yeah, I think there's a clear path for it because like for example,
retro games. What do you put in an emulator to play your retro game?
What is the file? Most of the time it is a ROM file,
right, And was a ROM if not, just the game with no
strings attached, right, yep. Gotal so cool. If you could just
have an ex you fire it up and it just works and you don't have
to worry about connecting to servers and everything like that. And that's that's what
scares people. And sometimes people get a little too worked up over this one
way or another. And it does feel like there's these two competing forces of
we eventually want all of our games to basically run the way we do emulation
for classic games, and it's like there's a force of open source developers and
and homebrewers and a bunch of people always working towards making that the future.
And then on the other side, I think we have these corporations trying to
move us away from physical games because they make more money for more money,
and they have more control over digital games. And so if we just like
lay it out, oh, they would they want us to go in that
direction because they prefer it because it benefits them. I think clearly that's a
good argument in favor of having the thing that gives you the most options,
which at the time of purchase, when a thing is new, is going
to be a physical version. And I get that. When what this really
comes down to for me when I when I'm thinking about it, is I
like having my device with all my games on it. That's that's all it
is. It's it is the convenience thing. And so they win and that's
how they win. And for me, I'm like, I've surrendered in this
fight, and I'm like, fine, whatever, But that's always where the
kind of people will go to three DS hacks that guy right exactly, you
know, it's not exactly that's what I'll surrender it now because I'm gonna and
the end, I'm gonna get you and the end, like this is all
gonna be in my pocket one way or the other, and and I'm buying
a lot of your games now and I'm going I love having my my switch
with all these games on it. I loved having my three DS with all
the games on it. That's really what got me is the three DS just
this thing that had everything on there and I could boot anything up at any
moment and just be playing it and be back in there. And that's how
I get too because guess what I went on because it just made sense.
Yeah, and and then but and then in the end, as soon as
they stop selling those games, let's fucking go. We are. We are
going at that, baby, And that's all I'm looking for at the end
of the day, exactly. So these companies are going to move us to
all digitals as much as they can this next generation. It is very unlikely
that we're gonna have uh not very It's pretty unlikely that all the systems will
have a physical card or CD slot or the disk drive slot going forward,
But I don't know, so enjoy it well. Last and then do you
think when we do get the next generation that they'll have external drives that you
could plug in sort of like the PS five has now going forward, either
so that they like they can do the limited run sort of things, or
or what depends, because I think Xbox just straight up won't switch is more
of a coin flip. I think at that point with Nintendo, this next
Witch will obviously have well, I mean, the reporting is the option.
At the very least, I think they're it would make sense for them to
move away from it since it's a handheld question. Really is at this point,
Sony and like some people mentioned into the chat like, well you're disky
jessic Key. Now anyways, it actually isn't like unless you're call of duty
and you literally ship a disc that has a megabyte on it. Otherwise,
Actually, most games are complete, most yes, Yeah, So that's why
a lot of people do still buy PlayStation physical copies, and people get in
people get in the in those physical games meeting people on switch get very frustrated
when they see that little blue box that says it requires a download. That's
that's a that's a headache for a lot of people. So and that's that's
still relatively rare. Yeah, I don't know. I think at this point,
like we said earlier in the show, a lot of questions was selling
right now, So we'll see one kinds of PlayStation by think the others.
Yeah, we're moving towards that digital future. Awesome. All right, we're
gonna take a break when we get back, we're gonna play a game.
We're gonna have our other topic, which is gonna be the mount Rushbot,
do some super chats. We're gonna do some super chats. We'll get to
all that right after this, and we're back and Sean, I think we've
got a handful of super chats. Let's get through those. That's all right,
quite a few of them rolling in, so thanks, sorry buy.
First off, we got el grugg Is saying here for Jeff making fun of
the Packers. Yeah, go ahead, Jeff, it's it's it's cute.
You got a little football team over there. You guys got a couple of
wins. Yeah, what have you done for me lately? Which is blues?
You've done that for me lately? A bunch of the lions fucking go.
We'll see what happens on Thanksgiving. After that, we have Drachi,
who says Mike, who shout outs to Turbo Sean, Hey, what's up
Darachi? Thank you, thank you very much. I don't know who Mike
is either. Oh what are you doing here? Uh? Are you assume?
E? Max? I think is how you did say that? A
ya Zuomi? Okay, all right, you know what, this is a
good times because I told you i'd do this, Jeff. Here's here's an
actual Japanese tip for you. If turns up, Japanese does not have the
a sound usually okay, that the harsh a. It's always ah oh yeah,
Zumi. Oh yeah, it would be like oh you assume me,
yeah, because because it would be like, you know, the aw sounding,
you know, like like who who makes techande, let's say the dude
god, what's his name the glasses? Yeah, his name's blanking on me?
What's his name? Yeah? What's his name? I thought you'd be
right to go, right, horrada, Yeah, yes, yes, okay,
So whoever I do, is the dude who makes smash that is soccer?
SUCKERI soccer soccer, not not sack your I usually soccer. All right,
cool, okay, there we go a little little little education. Let's
go. Anyways, the super actually was with the recent Super Mario RPG news
people have been speculating a potential news special Boss Pedal. Have any fun cameos
you'd like to see? Uh in Super mariorpgs. That's what this is.
Yeah, I mean, listen, I mostly am going to be happy if
they just keep it exactly the same, But if they go start doing cameos,
I would like some like deep cuts, some references to games that are
dormant. I think we'll say start tropics for for for Mikey, some characters
you're gonna be able to fight the letter they dunkin water, perfect cause that's
the only thing anybody knows about Star Tropics Doctor Kashima from from brain Age,
get him in there, stuff like that. Did we all read your pre
What know what this man's talking about? I think he had a Super Mario
RPG preview on games beat Dot. M Oh yeah, I guess you can
go read that from sadat the Gamer Jeff god of knowledge. When can we
expect the next Sony Stay Play first party showcase? Also, I antr with
a rumor of an unknown superhero game that's PlayStation exclusive. I don't know about
that one. There's a chance there's a chance that that could be true.
I wouldn't be surprised. You know, there's there's a whole bunch of rumors
out there about that right now. Who knows what's true and what's not.
As far as a state of play or first party showcase, I haven't heard
anything recently. Last time it was like I hadn't heard anything and then people
talk about a showcase and like, well, no state of plays coming,
and then that state of play did happen. But I haven't heard anything since
then. That doesn't mean there's nothing. I always try to like remind people
I don't have perfect knowledge of these things. Something could happen pop off without
me knowing anything about it, so that I'm not confirming the negative, but
I don't know for sure. All Right, There, I go from question
mark nineteen ten in regards the NHL potentially mandate neck protection. There are still
players who don't even wear advisors. Yep, yeah, that's what we were
talking about. I can't remember where this came up, but yeah, there's
a lot of players who don't wear a visors, even though their eye sockets
get fucked up basically every game. I would really, I would just like
more face protection kind of be mandated across the league in some way. Advisors
at the very least. I think new players do have to wear advisors,
I think, but some like it's like with helmets. Like when I was
a kid watching hockey in the nineties, there was still like a player on
the Saint Louis Blues who didn't have to wear a helmet because he was grandfathered
in. You need one guy on the ice not wearing a helmet. So
I think there's a lot of that right now with advisors, but I think
going forward, every young player has to wear advisor next prediction and I didn't.
I haven't watched that video from I think it's a UK Hockey league or
something like that. I hear it's gruesome, so yeah, why not?
Why why not avoid that? If possible? Yeah? From Caleb Harris.
Given the amount of layoffs that happen all across the games industry, what advice
would you give someone who's interested in starting a career in games, specifically on
the journalism slash media side. Yeah. The advice I always give people who
looking to get into this side of things is find people who are going in
the same direction as you, that are in the pretty similar position as you,
and work with them. Startup start projects, reach out to websites that
are small that probably aren't going to pay you. And people say, don't
work for free, but I did, and it was volunteer work, and
I got paid in in experienced People say, don't get paid in exposure,
and the I definitely don't. But if you are going to learn lessons from
someone, if like I worked at bitmob and that was all volunteer work,
but they were editing me, and they were providing feedback and improving my writing
to the point where I could actually do this job. And the only reason
I got the bitmob was I was with other people similar in a similar position,
who were going in the same direction. And then one day Brett Bates
was like, Hey, I'm going to go. You know, I'll actually
work hand in hand with dance Shoe over a bitmob. And then a couple
months later he said, hey, we want someone to do news, Jeff,
do you want to come help it out? And it's because of a
relationship I built with someone who was in the same spot. So look around,
tis to be right place, right time. Relationships. Yeah, yeah,
so building what's important? Yes, And you might look at like,
oh, there's some cool people doing some cool stuff. I wish I could
go do that cool stuff with them. Maybe go ahead, try that if
you want. But the real thing is build the next cool thing. Be
the one building the next cool thing with other cool people, and a lot
of this stuff will take care of itself, or just podcast before your old
man as basement. Eventually you'll get a job in the industry. Yeah,
I mean list, I don't think that's ever worked for anybody's terror advice from
Danny Mitchell layoffs are bullshit. I'll hallylujah. But Sony operating income down from
record revenue? Is Microsoft positioned a better day? One releases on PC means
one marketing budget, pentament grounded high five add value without the budget, No
VR equals good. Okay, let's uh trying to cram a lot into the
super sw Yeah, we understand how the character limit works a little bit there,
But yeah, I mean my Microsoft is definitely positioned better because they have
more money coming from more places, so they're more in you know, there's
more insulation again from them being exposed to the elements of a tough market.
And and and then yeah, Sony operating income down from record revenue. I
don't necessarily know what that means, because operating income and record revenue are two
different things. Revenue is different than income. But we yeah, we spoke
about earlier Sony and a tough spot in terms of its wider business ventures.
A lot of that stuff is down, and that's been the case for going
years and years now, and PlayStation is the one bright spot. And play
we see PlayStation trying to maximize the return on all of its on all of
its business efforts that are working. A lot of them are working. It's
just the problem for Sony again is that those things have been maximally the maximal
value has been extracted from those things already, and investors already expect those things
to be doing what they're doing. So then it goes back to what are
you going to do next? And then there's no answer there. I then
with the pentiment grounded high fi thing, I think I agree with that too.
I think that's what Sean was saying earlier, where it's like, can
Sony find other ways to do games of variable scale and size to keep things
fresh other than people happy for a bat term, Like you know, you
want the fans like on board with you and like sort of celebrate you.
And that's kind of what those smaller games have been doing for expect especially when
they have gaps. I would say, And I think a Sony would kill
for something like a c of Thieves, right, I mean exactly, because
that's the thing, build the next big thing. Those just come on nowhere.
You can't do that, so just like, yeah, the creative you
have to be trying, Yeah, and you got to let your teams try
stuff, which is why out there. Yeah, and then uh yeah.
Then then some like cfieves gets a lot of subscriptions Xbox Live something I think
Sony wants to make sure they have more of. That's why they have so
many live service things in the works, is they want to keep people engaged
with PlayStation network, right and VR count of fools are at this point,
I think Yeah. I mean again, that one's we've talked about with the
PlayStation portal. I think that's PlayStation hardware team or Sony hardware teams go and
be like we're going to make this and it's gonna be great, and PlayStation
going like, okay, we'll do what we can with them, try to
support this. Yeah from zoom Mayor, that's right. I'll save ninten dogs
into sides for on plane listening, so hey, shall see you listening to
this later. Yeah. Absolutely. If you hopefully you got a noise canceling
earbuds, you can hear us just fine. But hello, Hello, Hello,
Hello zoob Mayre. Norma from El Grugg excluding f F seven Reunion was
the next PlayStation exclusive. It's crazy to me that Switch has more stuff dated
this late into his life. Yeah, I don't know. What do you
think that is? Part of me is just like Sony's in a position where
they are they don't have to announce anything too early anymore, so they're not.
But they were a companied that a few years ago would have been like
an in three to four years, you're going to be boot playing this blockbuster
yea, And mostly didn't backfire on them. I think in a couple cases
it didn't work out perfectly, but it never seemed to backfire on them,
So what do you think that is? I also think they might just have
a bit of a gap. I mean, you know, we just saw
this, that's what you're feeling, Yeah, at a gap, like you
know, And like with Redfall filling, one of those gaps didn't work out
because it was clearly rushed. So I think that's part of PlayStation just trying
to avoid that. I was like, no, stuff comes when it's ready
if we own have some thumbs the brakes, but we're gonna keep the quo.
I think that's what they're doing for right now. That sounds right from
T Bucket twenty three. Hey Beef and Apple Boys. Should I get Marvel
Spider Man two or Mortal Kombat one for PS five beat armacor six last week,
and it rules what you're looking for. Two very different yea very different
kinds of game, seems. Oh when is like, which one's gonna have
the better resell value? Sehn, definitely a first party PlayStation game, sell
it back. And then by Mortal Kombat one. Hey there he goes the
answer. Oh so yeaheah. I really just as already moved for single player
and multiplayer. That's all it is. You know, I am really digging
the story Mortal Kombat one. I think a big part of it is the
Mortal Kombat eleven story was I'm realizing pretty ass and just I was not engaged
with it at all, and this Mortal Kombat one story, I was immediately
like, oh, there's on some cool strings here. They're they're setting some
stuff up. It's pretty easy to understand, and all the stakes are are
pretty good. So that campaign's pretty good. I don't know, maybe play
through. But also it's a YouTube video, you know, one that you
can watch on YouTube dot com slash at Giant Bomb. But it's basically just
a movie, so I went buy it for that. Yeah. Ye good
from Rachel Acker, which is a very English name there who's hyped for a
new warrior wear game. Let's go. I am gonna get it tonight.
I'm gonnas soon as we're done here, I'm gonna make sure I haven't purchased
and ready to go. I'm looking forward to it. I'm gonna be hanging
out with friends in the near future who I haven't seen a long time.
Definitely picking up for that because we love those silly hijinks. Yes exact.
Dan was just mentioning that we're gonna be playing a lot of it when we're
in Minnesota, so yeah, we'll be doing the same. Looking forward to
it. The uncharreed wolf. I just never understand why people desire the digital
future. Consumers don't gain anything from physical games completely going away. Companies do.
Yeah, I'll be clear. I don't want fiscal games to go away.
I definitely don't want that. I think part of it mean this was
all work. It's all work. Yeah. Again, I have that natural
version of people coming to me and complaining to me about like collecting physical games,
where I'm just like, man, that sounds like a problem that you
have. But when I just step back away from that for a second,
it's like, oh no, no, of course I want physical games that
their presence you can give to like nieces and nephews and stuff. That's always
cool, that's fun. I want to be able to do that in the
future. So yeah, I don't want it to go away. I just
want the digital future to be as convenient as possible for my own purposes,
and beyond that, I don't want anything else to change. That's the ideal
future for me. From Mike O'Leary. Okay, but if Mike gets himself
into a castaway situation, what Disney branded sports equipment would be as Wilson bowling
ball with Goofy on it, Peter Pan tether ball, guests, stolen free
weights. I think like a Jiminy cricket, Like I don't know a shuttlecock
from badminton? What a shuttle cock? Christian? Did I stutter? I
think I did a little bit. Actually I did stutter a little bit.
Yeah, an incredible hull hockey stick. That's why I'm going with there you
go perfect from ep idiot Box. Would you guys be cool with me making
game that's inspired artwork? I'm in a doodling mood shoots, Yeah, go
to town. We love that. Last up to tell us on Twitter and
it's us on Twitter. Put in the discord whatever you want to do.
I appreciate it wherever you are. Bus and then last one here from hey
you Peka Blue. Y'all cute. Shout out to Mike, shout out to
Mike. We we give them ship. We like mikey. Oh, we
all like Mikey. And you're cute too, Hey you Peka Blue. Hell.
Yeah, that's it for now. Quite quite a few super chat thanks
everybody. We just got one more. Oh you know, yeah, we'll
see this one in here real quick. Connell would thick Daddy gandor from me
Bo tomorrow let's go. It is a thick boy. You know what's a
good game? That Zelda game that they released, This Zelda game it came
out this year. Sure, and then we'll see what. I'm pretty excited
about Giant Game of the Year because we're gonna do it the same way we
did it last year. We're gonna do the same we did last year,
and it's like we won't know who wins until the very end. So I'm
pretty excited about that. All Right, we're gonna take another quick break.
We're gonna come back. We'll get into the rest of the show. See
you after these messages. Smoke him if you got them. Everybody, We're
back. It's time for a little Closest to the Messy Pin. Wait,
I couldn't see you. I'm like, what the hell? Bit is my
toy cigarette here? Okay, Sean take over this show. God damn it.
That's right. Is time once again for everyone's favorite game show with them
podcasts Closest to the Messy Pin. This is the special guest edition video viewers.
You might be able to guess the theme because I think I can.
All the ease are accented here. I think I know what Bob's doing.
This is, of course, executively produced by Benji Bob, present by me
Terribo Shawn, powered by Meg Rick. As always when we do one of
these, when I'm participating, I don't know what the games are, I
don't know what the scores are. I think I can guess what JIPA games
will have. But we'll see a quick reminder of the Jesus the rulays.
In every round, we will be given a certified retro game. The goal
is to predict its Metacraig score. As it stands right now, closest to
the pin scoring system. You want to get it right. Each point DV
you are, you add one to your score. If you're exactly right,
it's minus five instead. And at the end of the game it's golf roles.
You want the lowest score possible. I did already flip a coin and
see who goes first. Jeff, you will be picking first, all right,
I need to tell me what you think. Oh would you look at
that? Pokemon snap Has sixty four June thirtieth, nineteen ninety nine, fifteen
credit reviews. Okay, it's a game that I think people liked. It's
in an era where if you released a game that was short, you were
really punished for that. And I think people thought this game would short and
not a lot to do in it. So I'm gonna go I'm just gonna
go with my gut here and say a seventy nine, So you know,
okay, this is about when people used to use math too. Yeah,
when they do an algorithm, be like, it's a fine bout of five
for sound, and it's a four out of five for graphics. We got
to add take an average. Was thinking that you're onto something there that that's
basically the exact reasoning I have. You know, I am going to prices
write you a little bit. I'm gonna go seventy eight. I was gonna
go like just below eighty, which is why I think if I win the
thing, I should be able to choose whether I go first or not.
But whatever, it's for a discussion for a different time. I'm not trying
to derail us. Try to derail us. The score of Pokemon Snaff right
now is in that seventy seven. I'm so close. I guess. Guess
what Mike said in chat too low. It's an eighty two. Look at
this guy who doesn't know what an idiot he says? Shit? All right?
Game number two Pokemon, Pinball, Ruby and Sapphire. Interesting choice here,
Game Boy Advance. This is the sequel. August twenty six, three
twenty two critic reviews as My Turn First, Benji quit conspiring with Sean to
make me look terrible for he sent this game over me and was just like,
you better not lose. And I'm like, Homie, you have no
idea how bad I actually am at playing this game. Okay, this is
a game that I think people would have found more charming, and so I
think it's certainly nine like the nine range, but I think he got maybe
a couple of those while being in the eighties. This one, I think
is one that would get more like an eighty because I think the people who
reviewed it would have I think selection bias. Yeah yeah, I'll price this
at you as well, because I really don't there's there's a Pokemon pinball for
like the original game Boy, right, that's people fondo. It's a black
card game Boy color, Okay, okay, And I don't remember the feelings
about this one at all. So I'm going to go with in eighty one
eighty one, all right, it's in that eighty one. That's that's that
forty year old luck, let's fucking go. I was gonna go eighty one
too, like I'll go one higher. Oh boy, I'll take it.
I'll take it. It's a really good game. He's probably never played.
I'd imagine we gotta get back. Lard checked this out at some point,
like can we mentioned at one point having him do a pinball stream pinball video
you kind of do a b light this next Well, we'll see what the
schedule allows for. But maybe that would be a fun stream. Just have
a back. I play a bunch of video pinball games. Yeah, the
good ones, the bad ones. Yeah, yeah, we get. Maybe
let's put together his zep phone and just send it over to him to make
it easy for them. Okay, all right? Cool? Game number three.
Pokemon Stadium two N sixty four, March twenty eight, two thousand and
one, twelve critic reviews, Jeff Okay. I played Pokemon Stadium one on
the N sixty four after playing Red on my game Boy and being like that's
a fine game and not really having many other feelings beyond that, And then
I played Pokemon stand was like, that's just not for me. I don't
care about this. But I think Pokemon Stadium too, and this is I
just think, I don't know, this is probably wrong. I think Pokemon
Stadium two is pretty well liked, and maybe there's some like mini games in
there. I think people like, again, I'm just pulling from out of
my ass. I'm gonna go with a safe flat eighty and not really feel
too confident about that. People adore this game. Yes, the first Pokemon
Stadium was everything people wanted, sort of outside of it actually being a fally
Flash RPG. Right, I could play your cartridges on there with the transfer
pack you bring your Pokemon in, and they were in three D for the
first time, I did have a to mini games you could play. Stadium
two is the same thing but better in every way. Question is how well
would it have reviewed? Again, really tough to say. Yeah, it
ain't getting tense, It's definitely ain't no tens. The question is how high
would it go? So my guess would be because I don't want I want
to pump up too much, because I think some people definitely will have BS
reasons better exactly where it's like, there's not there's not a law here,
there's no main campaign or whatever, and I think that's how some people would
view it. I could be shooting myself on the foot because there might not
be enough content for some reviewers. But I'm going to go high here.
I'm gonna shoot high. In seventy eight, maybe remember were still oh yeah,
yeah, reviewers still Pokemon Stadium two sits at seventy eight. Wow,
that one was going to be impossible to place. Yeah, oh boy,
all right, did that work? I think zero? What it did take?
Two? Yes, because I was at minus three. Okay, okay,
perfect, Yeah, see I this is the same thing happened with Mike.
I'm not actually good at placing metrics scores. I was a whole ten
points out there. Yeah, Mike is bad at this game. He's gonna
be so bad. He's pretty good at this game. But no, he's
not. He sucks at it. And that's the he can't say anything about
it because he's not here. Exactly what's he gonna do. Game number four
is Pokemon x D Gale of Darkness on the GameCube October third, twenty five,
twentye Sound Correct Reviews. It's my pick. I'll give you a little
hint here, Jeff, you didn't know this is Colisseum two. Basically,
this is a right RPG, and and I know this one as an expensive
GameCube game. That's about as much as I know about it. But I
also think people tend to like this one too, or I don't know,
I think they tend to like it. But first me first, So you
first, okay, yes, awesome, get a bit of a match here,
I fintask. I feel like this is the kind of one that would
have done pretty well because people were riding the high of oh, it's finally
a full three D Pokemon RPG on the game Cube. But this one,
a lot of people also say, isn't as it goes Colosseum. So I
do think it plays in the eighties. I'm gonna say low eighties. I'm
gonna say I'm gonna do another eighty two here. Yeah, that's kind of
what I heal me in, deal me in, Mike, Mike, Mike,
what do you think Yale Darkness got oh any one? Okay, right
around what I said? Okay, okay, Well then I will go with
an eighty two times in a row. Gale Darkness sits at sixty four.
All right, man, that's the curve ball, all right. How many
reviews is it? Twenty seven reviews for this game? So that's the thing.
That's the thing, Mike. Nowadays people don't like this game. But
I thought in the day, I thought they would have loved it. So
what the hell do I know? Apparently so cool? Yeah, it's a
pretty box. Yeah true, all right the final game here where I'm saying
at thirty points and Jeff is saying at fifteen, who knows how this could
go? Pokemon Fire Red version aka the Not Broken version of Gen one Jeffrey
game Boy Advance September seventh, twent on four thirty eight correct reviews. It
worked fine when I played it, all Right, let's see, I'm gonna
say that this one's really well liked, and I think this is also going
to have a self selection thing where the real perverts are going to be the
ones like crawling all over themselves to review it. So I'm gonna go with
it's gonna be in the nineties somewhere, I think. But how high into
the nineties should I? I should probably try to like pin this in a
place where it makes it difficult for you to do much about it. So
let's go. I'm gonna go with a ninety that I'm gonna go with the
ninety two. I'm gonna go with the ninety two. Ninety two. Yeah,
I still that's okay, Okay, So now my thinking is flipped because
I would absolutely guess Yell Darkness would have done well despite its flaws. So
here I'm like, did people actually recognize that fire as incredible? Hmmm?
I wasn't paying attention to the time. I'm based on all that on how
people feel about it now, and people seem to I think people really like
this now, But yeah, I have no idea how they saw it at
the moment. I'm gonna say, not gonna win, but maybe in safe
face a little bit, I'm just gonna say a clean ninety, all right.
If I was smart, I would go really low because that might win
me the game. But I also don't want like a terrible score coming out
of this one. I understand saying eighty nine. Mike Price is rinning me
with an eighty nine. They're awesome, fire red. So that's that eighty
one. Okay, man, Okay, you could have easily won had you
gone the other side of like closer to an eighty. But that's the thing.
If I would go on low, I will go one like seventy something,
So it was the difference one to one. I want, how do
you let this man speaking? I don't know. We could have kicked him
at any moment. I think we all have the power to do that.
The final scores here are Me with thirty nine, Jeff with twenty six.
For the audio listeners, Bob Rights editors note, as you can see,
I bet the house on Sean winning. So let's hope this done backfire on
me and Jeff is doing the pch butt slap there. That's right, I
am Pechoo's trademarked butt slap. Sorry, Bob, hopefully now you know it.
Never bet on me playing this. It's a tough game, actually tough
game. You get one game that you're not sure about and then suddenly it's
like, oh man, that fucking hall coach in the industry, like six
months, what the hell do I know? All right, thanks for that,
Sean, Thank you so much, Bob. That was an excellent time.
I always enjoy that. Let's get back into the show though, after
one more quick break and we're back and we're gonna do the mount rush More
of Juicy Games. But first I thought we sucked with Mike. Let's fuck
with Mike a little bit. He's not he keeps popping in, but if
he does, if he does a Christian you just kick him out. Okay,
we're gonna do a quick Oh Mike, you're supposed to go away.
We're gonna do the mount Rushmore of Disney games. Uh parentheses Jeff's version,
like you know, like Taylor's version, and it's gonna we're gonna just really
mess it up, like we're spending like no more than two minutes on this.
Put them in the chat. Now, let's do it, Jeff,
Yes, okay, so uh the Aladdin parentheses s n E s okay perfect?
Like okay, yeah, let's say my term Star Wars Battlefront two an
incredible game that is flawless and Disney is lucky that they own it. Now,
okay, all right, Star Wars Banel Front to what's the ear on
that? Two on five for five? Okay? All right, well chat,
you guys got anything? Oh, Disney's Extreme Skateboarding Adventure. Okay,
I think he likes that one, he does, but it's also silly to
put rushmore. Okay, so I kind of like that. Oh I spelled
skateboarding on oh okay, okay, okay. Honorable mention, Jeff on honorable
mention Aliens Colonial Marines from from Befamer. I love that. All right,
Let's go Diehard trilogy. Yeah yeah, they do own you know, they
do own all of that. What's the worst Simpsons game? Simpsons Bowling?
They own Simpsons Bowling? Oh you do? But the one you play the
other day, wrestling? Is it wrestling or bullet wrestling? Is the battle
one? Wrestling Bulling. Yeah, but Bulling's okay. Oh yeah, well,
what's the Samsung game you play? Like two weeks of Space bar Varsus
the Space Mutes. Yeah, that's actually we can't. We can't do that.
He's too much of a fan of Split Second to actually put it up
there. But I think that would be pretty good for the list, all
right, them possible for the Game Boy Advance. Sure, No, I
think this is good. I think we put this out here. I know
it's not Disney, but sorry, can you put a Master's of terres COSI
has an honorable mention? Please? Oh yeah, totally, thank you a
game. I know it's not disneyn I don't know why honorable mentions John Drake's
ass. I think that's a good one. Yeah, okay, yeah,
it's fun. Yes, all right, that looks pretty good. Let me
just bold this. There we go, and I'm just gonna real quick put
that on Twitter. Perfect. I endorse this. Yeah, yeah you come.
Yeah, I signed this too. Yeah, as long as you guys
co sign and approval. There we go send it to the President to be
like sign sealed, delivered. Yep, I'm yours. All right, all
right, we had our fun let's get to the mount rushmore of juicy games.
Uh, Sean, do you want to explain to people the juice?
Because this is something that I've only become aware of after an email on the
BombCast. I think, I mean, that's something that we have to define
for ourselves here and I what is the win a game? You know when
you feel it, when you see it, when you hear it, when
it washes over you, when that juice is in your face, you know
that it's happening. Question is how does it get there? Jeff? How
does it get there? And that's what we need to well, I think
we we need start. I did. I will say we have the community
thread here tonight, and that I did emphasize the word feel. I'm curious
to see how people interpret that because maybe they went for controls, Maybe they
went for something like I'm going here with which a lot of my pigs are
audio visual. The combination there, What do you define the juice? Okay?
Yeah, that when you just said that, that popped a couple of
things in my brain. You know what, Let's explain it by putting up
a first A first one. Just we'll start with a short list and then
we'll move stuff up. Wait, okay, so should we do the one?
Should we do like the one and put it out? Yeah, if
you want to do that one, we can do the one. Yeah,
all right, what's the one? Titan Fall two? It's titan Fall too,
baby, come on, It's got the juice. I ball, Tu's
got the juice. Uh, it's got the juice multiplayer and in single player,
and it's a it's about the feel, but it's about the combination of
the feel and the look and how cool everything is. And then the sounds
pop off. So I mean it's just got everything sounds really good. Yes,
and even just like the moments, you know, like the Fastball special,
like come on, that's just it's every everything about it. It's just
oozing personality. I love that game so much. Yes, to list is
off the screen. Yes, I just fixed it right there. There we
go, Okay there, yes, uh? Tit two? Definitely? Yes,
I feel like the one. Uh. That's the first thing that occurred
to me. But when you said audio visual, that made me think of
Tetris effect, which I think is a game that is, hey, what
if Tetris but with juice? Like that is what the game is uh and
and it's it's I think it made me realize how important that that juiciness is
to making video games work. Because you can have a great game like Tetris,
but if you then add uh, just excellent interactive sound and visuals on
top of that, you get this excellent emotional game. Uh So yeah,
Tetrius Effect is definitely in my short list. Yeah. I mean, and
you can get juicy everywhere. You can play it on a boat like my
kids right now. But yeah, that that game is just incredible and it
gives you the yes, it really sucks you in. And yeah, definitely.
Okay, So when I say audio visual, I mean, you know
me, you know some of the games that I would think of when I
say that, where it's it's like man's game got something, it just got
something. And I think I would like to propose a fighting game. Sure,
yeah, is gonna be game. That's the thing, you know,
Christian, I'll let you help me out here with this. Like, what
what would you say the juiciest fighting game is? I would say NBC two.
I was thinking about that. I was thinking about NBC two and it's
got that special something. But I don't know, I feel like that's weirdly,
you can almost define that a little too much. I think, like,
yeah, you know, I talk about it a lot, and it's
the reason I talk about it. I'm not bringing up it's a favorite.
I'm bringing up because I think it's got the juice is Killer Instinct. Oh,
Killer Instinct. Okay, Killer Instinct doesn't fair. Oh yes, the
new Killer Instinct is a very juicy game. Like when I when I try
to describe to someone why I like Killer Instinct, it's like, man,
it's kind of hard because it's kind of just everything, Like it's not a
high budget game, it's not particularly beautiful, but it really has that something.
Yeah. Yes, And the thing they do with the music when you
like it changes the size of the music of your character where you are,
Like you're here, on the left is your character and the left the music
for your character will sound on the left channel. And the more combos you
do with your character, the louder the music is, and it goes with
the bit of the music. It is really special with that. Yeah,
this is literally my favorite single favre mechanic in video games, and Matt Matt's
pointing it out here. Everything being on the beat is the ship. It
absolutely is. And yeah, that's just it's wild of ki. So I'll
immediately throw out like a cousin to this one. Yeah, and I'm curious
how you think this will do here, Jeff, how this will fly?
How juicy is high fire rush? Yeah, I mean listen, it is.
It definitely is it is. There's something about like this disqualify it.
Maybe not, but like that that No, that's the whole point of the
game, is like we're putting the juice is front and center there like that.
That is what you're doing in that game. It's almost like it's manufactured
juice, and it's like they do it so freaking well. Yeah, it's
almost like you can just look at it and say, oh, yeah,
I get it, like you don't really have to think about it, right,
Yeah. The whole point of it is to just to get Yeah,
I don't know, I for something like you said, you know when you
see it, and so I definitely see it. I know it's there,
but I also know that I don't have the compulsion to put it up on
the list for whatever reason, like and I want to get you, yeah,
very clear about this. If I rushed in my second fair Game of
the Year. I've played almost everything that's come out this year, and it
is up there for maybe which it's a favorite for mine. Now, Yeah,
there's there's something about it, and there's also like the quality of the
game that's not what we're talking about here, but something you know, it's
it's a very very good nine on ten, but like something about the juice
there is. Yeah, not for r I would say, I agree.
Can can I ask you which Mario games should go up here? Because there's
a couple of juicy Mario games. I like Odyssey, but it's hard to
kind of get past Wonder right now, which I do think is maybe the
juiciest game of the year. Wonder do get that juice? It really really
does. I mean this is where this is, to be fair, Wonders
where it came up. This term got written into the BombCast. It was
like developers talked about juice like it's all the stuff that goes on top of
everything. It's how good the coins sound and you collect them, how good
the purple coins sound, the role of the drum when you do a butt
slam, like that's what developers consider juice to be. And it's like Mario
Runder is bursting at the seams with juice, So I kind of do think
it's going to have if we put it on the short list. I think
it's gonna end up on the list, And I'm letting them Do we feel
good about that? Because I do? But at the same time, like,
do we want to There's so many games to de pick from when it
comes to this topic that I don't want to like keep something else out because
we're Super Mario Brothers. Wonder has this recency bias. Well. First of
all, Super Mario Sunshine absolutely got some juice. That's a juicy game for
sure, it really is. It's one of the things that it really has
going for it when there's so many other things kind of working against it.
It's a juicy game and it's still a good game. It's a good game.
Uh, I would have said Odyssey. That's the thing. Like with
Wonder, it's almost one of those things where like the juice does come from
like the little touchdo like going through the pipes and everything. I'm like,
oh, that's really good. But like I'll be honest, the Wonder Seed
moments almost feel a force to me in the juice department. I do what
you mean. Yeah, yeah, So it's like, I mean, I'll
put Odyssey up there's if that's the one we think should be, because I'm
told I'll love Odyssey, and I think we could put both on the shortlist
you want to and come back to it after we like see what everyone else
has to say. Me like, if the community really really wants Ossie up
there, and may we do that one? I don't know, we I
ween circle back on if I was gonna do another Nintendo game, another big
Nintendo game, It'll probably be a Link between Worlds because I think that's one
of the best feeling games of all time. I played that for the first
time this year, and that game just has it does have that specially that
to me, that game is if you start playing that game, you're gonna
have a real hard time putting it down. It is just so sticky.
Did I definitely did like a dreams with that, which is longer than I
usually do. Yeah. Yeah, you just it's just you get so much
momentum when you start playing that game, because it just goes and you can
already fill yourself making progress and a lot I mean, and a lot of
that stuff comes down to they really really worked on the game feel. But
but let's just maybe let's just focus on these Mario games as the as the
big representation for Nintendo. Yeah. Sure, I want before they like,
before they go away, I want to bring up a couple of the chat
brought up real he yeah, yeah, and then I'm gonna I think I'm
just gonna jump in the discord pretty early on this one too. And I
think some might say is in there doing twenty sixteen? That is one that
I thought about. That is like the second one that occurred to me after
typing yeah, yeah, when I came when it came to like audio visual
and stuff, That's one of the ones where when I yeah everything and I
tried to explain stuff to people, I'm like, yeah, doing twenty sixteen?
Have you played that? Yeah, that's that's the type of thing I'm
looking for. Yeah, a game that knows what it is is super confident,
has juiced in the gameplay the way it feels it really encourages you to
get in that ass. I think an important part of like modern action games
is can you encourage the player to getting that ass through whatever means you can,
and whether that's audio visual gameplaying incentives, all that stuff, and it's
got all that. Yeah, and you've got the big moments like uh,
you know, the doom Slayer just being this epic badass in such a cool
way and all these demons being terrified of him. It just rules. Yeah.
Another one that the chat said, I was thinking of earlier Elite Beat
Agents. That's a juicy game. Hey, hey, damn right, that's
good. That's one of those where it's just like you see it and you
know it. It's just like that. That's one of those where you almost
like say, is charm, but it's more than that, Like the feel
of the game is good. All the little flourishes are good. Yeah.
I think EVA is like minimum shortless. I would me and like yeah,
yeah, as a front runner to Yeah, I feel very good about Leaping
Agents for all the reasons you said. All right, I am going to
actually let me get you back here real quick. Where did you go?
You know what, I'll just fade here. People are going to see you
for a second. Well, I get the discord up, No we go.
I have one. I one the Hasle the Juice shoot Banquish a very
interesting one. That's a very interesting one. I'll get a game field so
good and it looks so cool when you do everything, and he's just like
it's juicy everywhere full screen. No, I never finished. I never finished
Banquish as much as I love Platinum Games, White, you so far away
from your mic I was I was getting something. I was getting something once
once Jeff falls me back up. Yeah, I'll pull you back second we
go. All right, let's see, Okay, we're back all right,
march on real quick? Yeah, please scene why these before? I I
not in real life? That's cool. Yeah, it's a little it's like
people explain the people what you're showing me. It is the Doom guy audio
listeners. Uh, the literal pickup that you get in Doom twenty sixteen,
or you know, the Doom Slayer picks up the toy of himself and like
pose it a little bit and guess what when I pressed it on his chest,
that's fantastic. That's really cool. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like,
wait, that is just the thing from the game. I yeah,
I don't. I don't buy a lot of like gaming merch, but that's
one of those words like, oh yeah, I got cool. And because
that's a juicy game that dies. We want that thing to Wolf's asking where
he can get it. You can't anymore, and so sorry about that.
All right, then let's let's get to the community. But the podcast producers
wide in Eden says it's illegal not to mention Titan Fall two. I think
we'll mention that one a bunch of more times. Fish and Love says Shadow
of Mortar. For the Nemesis System, I think that's an interesting pick.
That's definitely it's a juicy system. Well for the action, I really like
the Yeah, yeah, it's that. It's not a game that stuck with
me, but at the time I definitely was enjoying it, and I think
a lot of it had to do with I think when you see an orc
in the Nemesis System and they're talking shit, that's juicy. That really is
h Velocity Prime one says super Mario ought to see nothing better in a three
D platformer than the long jump cap through the mid air dive hat jump combo
to absolutely soar through the environment. And god, that's a really really good
point, all right. The Boulder Gate Wolf five says second, Oh Shadows
Die twice has the best Perry and all of gaming no competition. Yeah,
me too. And that Perry is phenomenal. Boy when you fucking when he
comes to this long spear and you just step on that motherfucker and cut him
up. God, that's good. I don't think this would fly with you,
but I might as well bring up now, since we're on topic,
one of them that, like I would mention or like me, shortless material
melg you're rising. Oh yeah, I'm okay with that list. I mean
the slicing in that game is I mean, as soon as I said slicing,
I that game actually cur about the water melon, and I tell you
that's a juicy water melon, right literally. Yeah. That's also like one
of those audio visual things where it's like, you know, the music kicks
in, there's layers to it, and then yeah, you're running around your
dodging shit and just oh my god, it feels incredible. Play that game.
Yeah. Uh, Willow Davis says, if you know, you know,
for a world of keflings, I don't know you're alone on that one.
Sorry, will you might have to DM me whatever Deviant Art you have
saved your hard tribe. I'm assuming what is this? This explained the cover
of this game. What is Kathleen's was like one of those. It was
like an Avatar era. Yeah, I talked about over an Xbox era.
I can't remember what they said. I never played that, so I don't
I don't really know what it is casual, but on Holiday says it's Hades.
We all know this in our heart and Hades is definitely going to go
on the short list. Uh. The thing with Hades is again, it's
just all of those buffs and effects and the way that they build on top
of each other is so so I know what you're talking about there yet is
this Is this a good place to mention? Have I have I mentioned this
day before? I don't know what. I've never played Hades? Oh really?
And because I don't like roguelikes. But you're a piece of ship though,
that's that is true? You know what that's change I will tell you
if there was. That's the game that won over a lot of people who
are like I don't like Ruglics. That's why I want to play it,
finds No. That's the thing, because it's built for it. That's what
gives me right if it's built for it. And I love Super Giant,
I love Super Giants. So I'm like, super Giant has a super Giant
style solution to it, to the to building a rogue light. Now I've
heard some and so yeah, yeah, I want to play eventually. Yeah,
all right, where the fuck am I? There we go? All
right, there's a lot of these, so let's get through them. Mine
Sweeper listen, I'm with you. I love Mine Sweeper and that like when
you actually do mark a bomb correctly and you move around and then you hit
a button that you think is like okay, no, this should be good,
and then it's a big wide open space and why is my thing?
You jumped into the bomb there it's a big wide open space and it just
like blows open. That is a really good feel. But we're not gonna
put that on the list, Big Tony says Neon White. That's a pretty
juicy game. Yeah. When we like we start talking about like, oh
is it going to get on there with Hades and some of these other ones,
maybe I'm gonna put it on the Struggle Alex says, Astrobot is one
of the most joyful playthroughs I've had in years. The haptics and levels pulled
me in and it was a platinum in one sitting. Uh yeah, I
do think it's Uh, I'm right there with you. I for me it
was, but it's a it's a good feeling game and that goes a long
way towards juiciness. Uh. Jackie G says Super Mario Odyssey Klink says,
I don't know what juice they used to they used to make civilization, but
I'm pretty sure it's more addicting than any hard drug you could find on the
street. Uh. Sif had juice in the form of Leonard d moy's voice,
acting and talking about all the technologies and stuff, that was great.
Uh. Adam GC says, the one and only answer is Tony Hawk,
which I was playing today. I Jeff, this is a safe place.
You want to PLU one one plus two up there. I want to put
the absolutely and it and it's uh. Maybe there's not a juicier sound effecting
video games. Thanks. The trucks go oh yeah, oh yeah yeah.
The sound of like when you actually get something or locks of yeah, yeah
totally, But like, what are you going for? I was going to
say, when the wheels and the trucks going over like cement, that just
that's that that. I mean, that sounds so good, all right,
so let's see Cronobounds says Burnout three Takedown. No Rdie Arcadie racing game has
really had that that feel since, and I think that's right. Visualizeder says
titan Fall two got that Juice multiplayer was too good for this world. A
million curses for EA dumping it between Battlefield and Call of Duty. Chuck Chuck
nineteen ninety one says Resident Evil for remake Mine Cards section. Guess you'll have
to take my word for it. I don't try you, I don't know.
I have to play it myself to find out, and I want to
get me a Perver down exactly. Doomidal Crossing says Doom Eternal with its incredible
combat loop and god to your soundtrack is peak juicy. I haven't played Eternal.
I want to. I always wanted to, but I haven't. But
it's very good and the loop is no thing I know is very good from
what I played in the demo period when I was playing it like E three
or whatever. It was also hitting those shine Spark puzzles in Metroid zero Mission
and dread pretty juicy Metroid Yeah. Troyd Dewey, which, yeah, I
mean Metro dread Metric too. But man, those those shine Smark puzzles are
is a good poll feels so good. Yeah, I'm gonna put i' put
I'm gonna put Metro Dread on here. Okay, okay, all right,
there we go. You have the Metro Expresso. Uh, that's right.
Super Blast Deck says the warriorware series definitely has some kind of juice. The
game just clicks for a lot of people, yet it's not a big huge
name whenever a new one is out. Yeah, I mean I think that
first Warrior where Mega Microgames is very juicy a lot of It's definitely a lot
of character and it maybe borders into charm in a lot of places. But
yeah, no, it's got a lot going for it. Uh. Louis
says counter Strike Source got damn b hops pretty juicy to do him though,
that's right. Bench j C says Armored Course six. I don't know how
to describe it, but damn that game just felt good to play. Yes,
it really does. Wong Wong Gifts says Gunstar Heroes. There are certain
developers that exude juice, Platinum Capcom, but no one was able to do
it as consistently as Treasure, and I maintained that No. Sixteen Big game
feels as good as Gunstar Heroes Man. That is good. That's a really
good one. Damn, we had so many games interfaces. Vanquish has the
super Juice, Lenny Cool Dick Denver says, I'm a Mario Galaxy one Slash
two. Guy really made me buy it into the whole Wei motion control stuff
with the Wii mote missions. Also King of Fighters ninety eight and Guru Garrett
Goro and then Chaos Buckeru says this game has juice, and Mommy makes me
juice. Met Mike's not here. I thought there was gonna be a PG
podcast. Yeah, I see. Somehow we can just horn it up from
some beach and cocoa wherever the fuck he says he is. Beef Hammer says
Star Wars the Force Unleashed too. This isn't put some respect on the name.
Please put some respect on name Star Wars. No first Beef's name.
Oh oh oh, Beef Hammer ally of Turbo Shawan. See it's important because
the lore here is a turned coat and he's not my supporter anymore. Okay,
fair enough, and he says the Force on Leash too. Yeah,
we're good see that, He says. My answer is sacro Shadows die twice.
It's not my favorite game of all time, but literally everything in the
game feels good to do. Best combat system ever. Matt Rare Monkey says
Dead Cells, which, yes, that's definitely a juicy game. It's just
always going to have a trouble getting above Haites in a lot of these lists,
although I think it's like right, it's right behind him in my opinion.
Durachi says, first of all, this is my favorite Rushmore you've ever
done, but also Tony Hawk's pro Skater three has to be on there.
Try to tell me one thing you change about that game's juice. I dare
you. Yeah, we're gonna put one plus two on there, which has
basically three's control system, but one plus two Uh. Terioki Blues says Tetris
effect Let's fucking go, definitely a good call. Adam Juice says Magical Magical
Quest starring Mickey Mouse. Uh the Punish Punish Row says Meror's Edge was so
much fun. Uh. Colin says, Dave the Diver has the juice I
need to play more of that. I think I'm probably not gonna do it
this year, though. What could a simple Fisher game? What? What
could be a simple Fisher game that turns you into a mercenary, destroyer of
sea life and small business owner all in one. It's got that juice.
Hammond of Texas says PUBG battleground the game formerly known as Player Unknowns Battlegrounds.
Yes, game juice. I have like three thousand hours on that game.
I don't think he has the juice, to be honest. Yeah, it's
what does it have? Though? It has something? It's not charm?
I guess no, I don't know this. In the game it had being
the first battle Royal that took off. That's why I had. It's still
better in a lot of ways. So that's so true because they were up
fucking about before PUBG. It's just none of them, That's what I was
saying. The first one I took off. It was the first one.
I was like, yeah, well it took off for a reason. It's
really what it has is physics, and that's the thing that like, because
like in a PUBG you can just throw a grenade at somebody and it can
roll back down the hill. Let you in a really realistic way where you
like, you just see it happening, and it's happening in slow motion and
there's nothing you could do about it. Is the person driving your car drives
rode over that right over that grenade you just threw. You're like, oh,
son of a bitch, and then everything explodes. It's like those moments.
Those all have that now, not like not like PUBG does PUBG They're
good, No, they're not. The PUBG is. There's more possibility space
in PUBG than any of these other ones. My micy moment, you're then
you're not wearing me PUBG. I don't expect. I know. I'm right
though about PUBG because he is the special one and the other ones are kind
of like, you know, it's true, but it's not juice, It's
not it's not it's yeah, alright, let's see here, Doctor Ryan says
Marvel Spider Man, Destiny, Hades and Control. Yeah, I mean this
Spider Man game is juicy. Yeah, it feels really good, that's the
thing. It feels really good. I like, well, I'm a fucking
I'm a degenerate for Destiny, but I like this style I don't know.
Lo Rule says the Pickment series is in general is the pinnacle of this topic.
Trying to explain to someone what makes Picment so good as hard It's just
a game that scratches your brain in all the right ways. Uh picked before
it really is good for this I think, uh, super Harman currently playing
Armored Core six and this game has some juice for sure, especially when you
nail that perfect final hit on a boss that shit goes slow mo like those
moments for sure. Man screaming man it says. Celeste has some juice.
That's right. It's got tight controls that are nearly unrivaled in the platform genre.
You know what, I really want to play that Super Mario world A
Celeste mod the gout made. I don't want to play that real bad I
also, yeah, totally, I'm Mario mod. I'm gonna send you us
some point A new one came out there. Oh yeah interesting, Yeah,
yeah, let's let's do that all right? At the open worlds is mass
effect too? Breadfish says Half Life two for the gravity gun. Adam A
sleeps his Pitcross three D having to think of the extra dimension and using the
touch screen turning and digging into each block to unearth the puzzle within a lot.
Respect to Sport said the ultimate bl juice red steel too. Uh.
Pseudo Garudo says Tony Ox pro Skater one plus two has skateboard juice that it
does. Uh. He Gante says apex legends best movement in a first person
shooter and the most satisfied and shoot to kill going back to cod feels archaic.
Villain Mech says juice is not just the best field, but all the
extra stuff around the edges to make it feel better. With that, I
think of Overwatch and we definitely mentioned that as like that's a very juicy game.
Definitely yes, Mech says the pinnacle of platform and juice is Donkey Kong
Country Tropical Freeze not the right podcast listen. I think it's fine. I
just don't love it. DMC director depressed me my mouse breaking DMC, that's
a discord bug. It's been happening. Oh thank god, Okay, all
right, because it's driving me crazy. DMC five as a whole, but
especially Virtual Judgment cut end is the most satisfying animation in any game I've ever
played. If a character action game goes on the list, though it probably
would be melgiy Rising. Although I respect the DMC. I heard some people
say that game is mid and I disagree with them. They're bad at at
having opinions. Yeah, they're bad. Their job off vacation U Spoon even
sixty four said Pokemon's Silver and Gold has some of that sweet nostalgia flavored juice
sewn any Pokemon games have juice, man Like, it's hard to separate juice
from nostalgia. I would say Black and White kind of got the juice.
Sun and Moon kind of got some juice. I'd you know, I would
say the juiciest Pokemon game is Sun Moon, and no I'm not just making
a tropical pun there. It actually is like the game where it's like it's
a little hard to describe why, but it's like, the characters are really
good, the soundtrack, it gets you in the right mood. I would
give the Pokemon nod to Sun Moon, but it's not making a list.
Vision forty nine says Turbo Overkill. If Doom twenty sixteen Night City sounds cool,
go buy this immediately. I do have this, and I played a
little bit of it. I think in a demo period the rips. Yeah,
I kind of want to play it for a Game of the Year time
to put it in some of those other categories. Having a chain softwur leg
doesn't give this game the juice. I don't know, what does. Doctor
Lynch says, Super Mario three D World has the juice. What's a pleasure?
That? What a pleasure that that game is to play on either the
Wii or the Switch. And the expansion is even better. Yeah, Positive
Serre is a juicy game for sure. Joys says Persona five has the best
feeling menu based gameplay. All the style and flare of the pause menu and
combat menus just make them feel good to navigate. Example. Yeah, but
that's almost like so much of the identity of the game. I'd almost just
say that that's the game where you say the game has style and a few
people know what you're talking about, which is like, that's one of the
things where it's almost like it supersedes the juice. And we talked about that
a little bit tonight. All right, Tokoto writes in Toll Tocado, What
does that mean? I don't know. It's probably though, I don't know.
I mean, who could say it would be disappointed if it was Nerd
Ship personally. Ridge Racer Type four is the best racing game for reasons that
have almost nothing to do with the racing. Other ps one Race have more
cars and more tracks, but Type four has style. Incredible UI and Men
used glorious music and sound design, just a ton of little flourishes make the
whole game better than it has any right being because we were talking about styles.
See again, I think I think he's onto something. I will say,
I'm here like it is where it's like, it's a really good racing
game, but that's not why people like Type four, And I think I
think that does fall into the Jews carry we put somewhere on there. I
don't know if it will make them out rush more for us. Me and
Jeff are deciding, yeah, that's right. I think it deserves at least
shortless. I'm with them there. Oh I was doing the wrong. Okay,
that makes sense, all right. Let me how I zoomed in,
Well, because I went, yeah, basically, I've got to fix now.
Let me just fix it a little bit more. We go, and
then you're not gonna be able to see everything on one page. Everybody saw
scroll a little bit Ridge Racer remember that one? Yeah, I think I
remember that one. Let me just checked this one more time. I think
he said something I wanted to comment on. I mentioned, but I escaped
me, So if it accursed to me again, I'll bring it back up.
Okay. For the Mount rushmore of juicy games, we have titan Fall
two penned Oh Yeah, Onder, and then on the shortlist we have Celeste
metroy dread Tony Hawk's pro Skater one plus two, Haites, Tetris Effect Killer
Instinct twenty thirteen, Super Mario Brothers, Wonder, Super Mario Odyssey, Doom
twenty sixteen, Elite Beat Agents, Secro middle Gear, Rising Neon White,
and Ridge Racer Type four M. I we've got to have a hard time
cutting some of these. Is that what we should do? Should we just
like cut some of these? First? I think what we should do is,
I find it's easier shown to start moving ones up. It's easier to
like move something up and be like, Okay, these are the ones we
obviously really want to move up. Let's just let's just do it. Let's
each do a couple that we want to move up. Let's see if we
agree on any and then if we have like six or seven on the list,
so not guaranteed, but like the ones that we would put in exactly.
Yeah, yeah, nothing, nothing's locked except for Titan Fall two and
then from yeah, from there before Yeah, okay, what would you move
up? My number one is Killer Instincts. Yeah, I do agree.
That's a very Also, I think that's a fun one to have on the
list that people would pop for. I have twenty thirteen here, is that?
Right? Is twenty thirteen? Yeah? Yeah, fantastic? All right,
that's best one launch game tough. Uh god, I'm I'm you know
what, I'm just gonna go with my original gut and got tests Tetris Effect.
I think that is very good pick. Yeah, it's the ideal for
me of juicy game, I think, although so many of these are right
there as well. All right, what else you got? Personally? I
mean personally I would put Metal Gear Rising, but I'm flexible on that one.
Okay, well let's let's move it up for now. Let's move for
now. God, I'm like, between Hades or Tony Hawk, I'm gonna
go with Hades. I think in my heart I know that's the right one.
Then I would move Tony Hawk. Okay, all right, there we
go. It deserves it. All right, let's move up one more if
we can agree, what what would you move up? What Thelyssa low cut
off? What's on the bomb? Oh? Yeah it is. We have
Celesti, Metroid, Dread, super Mario, Brothers, Wonder, super Mario,
Odyssey, Doom, Elite Beat Agents, Secro uh neon White and Red
Racer Type four. All good picks. Yeah, I'll tell you what I
was thinking. Elite Beat Agents. Interesting, I was thinking Odyssey. Oh
god, yeah, as much as I love EBA, Yeah, I guess
probably should be over there. Let's swap. I'll do a swap since I
was like, I would personally put it on there, but I'm flexible.
Put both of those on and take mgr off. Okay, let's do that.
You know it is the inspiration for the best podcast now of all time,
of course. Yes, all right, all right, so we have
let's see, it does look like we have seven uh cut three. We
gotta cut three right now. So for audio listeners, we are down to
titan Fall two, Killer Instinct, Tetris Effect, Haities, Tony Hawk's pro
Skater one plus two, super Mario Odyssey and Elite Beat Agents. Here's here's
what I mean, the way I think it actually is right now, Sean
is people two killer instinct and I think Tetris effect are pretty close to locks.
So really we have roughly we have a space for one more. And
when when I when I look at it that way, I think it's probably
Super Mario Odyssey and we call it. But I don't know. So this
isn't just me hating all the game. I think Hades doesn't make it.
Yeah, I'm okay with that. It feels like sort of odd man out
in those I think it's I think it's very juicy. I think it deserves
to be in this conversation. But I if it's getting here, if it's
getting cut here, I don't think that's a problem. I think that's probably
right. So then Tony Hawk, Mariossi or Eba I think I do.
I think it's Odyssey. I think when when I when I look at these
games, it's it's between Tony Hawk and Aassi for me, because yeah,
e b A is almost more like that charm that we were talking about.
Yeah, yeah, I think it is Odyssey. It would be very hard
for me to cut it at this point when I just like, when I
look at it and I'm like, I can only have one of these.
Oh, it's got to be odysty is what my brain keeps doing. Yeah,
and again this isn't quality of game now that we're talking about here,
but we have talked about this before. That is like the most ten ten
ass game that's come out in a long time. I think it's because of
the small stuff, and small stuff is juice, yep, and it's a
it's just uh, I think it can come across as all that Nintendo magic,
Nintendo polish, and really it's just like they know that games is what
it is. Yeah, the game and the games feel better with just that
extra amount of love and that that's what that's where the juice comes from.
You were talking about, this is like the kind of thing that des would
love to be able to replicate. But it's you know, it's lightning.
You know, you can't you can't manufacture this. It's just love and care
and I think these four games do represent that. Yeah. All right,
Sean, Well I get this posted on Twitter. Why don't you read that
list? That final list for everybody one more time? Sure? So for
the audio, listeners are Mountain Rushmore of juicy game games is Titan Fall,
two, Killer Instinct twenty thirteen, Tetris Effect and Super Mario Odyssey. Yes,
games that we love, but also we love them because they're juicy.
I can sign this list as well. All right, it's a Christian Stampa
approval. I saw Mike's popping off about Odyssey in the chat. We're happy
here as the game mess all right, of mount Rushmore of juicy games,
we pop it on there real quick. But you know what we get me
juicy? Is everyone hen that thumbs up button? Because I noticed we're a
hovering a below that one hundred that Mikey always likes to giess to I rapsod.
So if everybody watching couse just hit that thumbs up, it's Sean juicy.
Please give me juicy. Don't you want to see the juice tonight?
All right? Thank you for that, everybody. Thank you for your contributions.
Sean, well done, Thank you for co signing both Mike and Christian.
I think that we've done a good job here tonight. Let's get on
to our final little bit. Sean, what have you been playing? What
have I been playing? I have been playing some Halloween games, Jeff,
little game for you here. Okay, based on what you know about me,
me and my friends got together and played three spooky games for Halloween.
What do you think? Three spooky games for Halloween? Okay? Are think
what relatively recent? Or are you guys just kind of going back into the
from different ages? And I'll give you I'll give you a hint. At
least one of them is a fine game. Oh okay, Well, did
you play Dark Stalkers? We played Dark Sockers? Okay, did you play
a Resident Evil? No? That's all I guess. Okay, it's like
when you're playing with a bunch of friends, I'm like trying like we are
you guys going for like fun? Are you guys actually trying to be scared?
What do you go for? Mortal Combat X horror movie Character Zone?
Oh that's a good one. Okay. And nightra Yeah, we yeah to
do it game the group play through. It's it's actually our Halloween tradition as
we bust out night Trap and do it. That's it. One that came
from. If anyone else wants a recommendation, I know it's after Halloween,
sorry, but this comes from something that we started way back in the day
group playthroughs of Until Dawn. Yeah, I keep one. I think I'm
wanting to do that with my wife, my laugh where we play through those
make choices together. So I was like, I was gonna try and make
that this year and didn't do that. But yeah, night Trips are a
fun one to do that with. That's great. Oh yeah, it's just
a good time. It's just a big vibe. I'll sell that. Okay,
okay, okay, okay. Spider Man two, yeah, yeah,
let's just get into it. Let's just get into it because we've been talking
about this a little bit off the air. I beat Spider Man two over
the weekend, and Jeff, I think I don't like Spider Man too,
and I hate to say it because I'm a big Spider Man fan. Yeah,
and there's elements of this game. Don't worry, Jean, don't worry.
We're not gonna spoil. So I'm gonna keep this guy in alysh.
The Open World is incredible. It feels so good. I mean, I
think your problems are the same problems I had. They just bothered you,
right, Yeah, because the Open World is fantastic. I like the story
in general, I ain't Scott's cool moments and every thing. The first one
that's good, the first one. My big problem is like the combat.
And this is the thing that Jeff was tweeting about like before the game released,
and one of the things you said was like, uh, everything comes
down to the combat, and I'm like, Okay, what do you mean
there? I think it was like a Twitter thing, you know, twear
limitation. You were kind of hating there. But when I played it,
trying to like hit it without like getting too into it so people could experience
for themselves a little bit. Yeah, which is good. Yeah, because
I had to, like I figured out my own Oh, I know exactly
what I mean. All the people that were disagree with me came back and
were like, oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, because there
are, first of all, there are moments where it's like we could done
something else here, but no, we did just do a horde of enemies.
But for me, it comes down to the four hit combo. Like
we talked about during this discussion night, I love character action games. I
love having the ability to do different things, the ability to switch to different
weapons and everything like that and have different choices obviously weapons don't work with Spider
Man, but like, I don't know, some other kind of like combat
as much as possible to keep it fresh, and it only goes so far.
That's that you're right, and the reality is, yeah, you're gonna
end up doing that for hit Combo again. By the end of the game,
I was thankful when we were fighting on like the top of buildings because
then I could like kick people off, I could like web them up to
like the railings, and in that moment that I think that's fun. Even
though I was doing that a lot, it's like, no, that's fun
every time, and that that held out. And I think the problem for
me actually comes down to the length. Ironically enough people were complaining about how
short it is or were at like, you know, twelve to fifteen hours.
I think character action games are always too long, and I had this
problem with so many games, where like the combat drags I had with the
Batman games, I actually had this with the first Spider Man game. You
know, I didn't have it with Miles Morales because I think that like six
to eight hours ish, depending on how much you want to linger on side
stuff is the perfect length. Ut is why like why I love Melgia Rising
and I don't love other character action games as much as because they always try
to pad it out and they kind of felt like they pay out here soon
mentions High Fi Rush. I felt High Fight Rush was two hours too long
because it has that PS two S tower is sectioned in the middle. I
think I thought that dry. That's my like knock against the game, and
so here Final Fantasy sixteen also too long. Yeah, yeah, definitely a
lot of games these days are just too long, and it's like you shouldn't
be afraid and last thing on this Like, to me, it did feel
like it almost leans into the prestige aiming thing we were talking about earlier.
It feels to me like I get Insomnik, you made an incredible looking game,
and then well accept the character miles, me and my talking about that
the other day, like the humans. But it constantly feels like they're like,
we want you to see what we made. We're not going to allow
you to break the rules of the game, and so in a boss,
the boss will be like, no, you don't get to stunlock me,
you don't get to use your gadget to like overcome me. No, you
get your four hits in you wait your turn now cram especially Yeah, yeah,
that was the fight. Yeah, without saying anything about it. It's
like I should be able to do more because this is later in the story,
but no, Craven just breaks the rules and that's that's what broke me.
I just stopped playing one night because I couldn't go to that. But
yeah, that's why. It's like Dan was talking about this the other day.
I mentioned this. He and Hansen were talking about this, and he
was like, I think this is a mix of ten out of ten moments
and six at ten moments. That's why where I come down at like an
eight, I'm like, I'm in the same vein, except it is,
like you said, more polarizing. For me, I would say it's like
a soft day. It's like a seven point five is where I would nail
down and not never reviewing it. But that's where it feels like to me,
I think it swings wildly no contended, and I don't know. I
wanted to like it more and I'm bummed out that though, but I think
it is a very good game. It just doesn't like it there for me.
Yeah, I definitely was getting worn out by the combat by the end,
the stop that's stopped and talks, the walks and the forced walking talks.
Those really got me by the end where it would Yeah, and there
was, you know, halfway through the game like oh, they're keeping these
interesting and I'm sure there won't be too many more. And then there was
like fifteen sixteen, seventeen more or something like that. It was it was
pretty wild, and I thought that that really takes me out of it at
that point of the game where I'm like, oh, I have a lot
of momentum going, let's just let me carry this through to the ends.
Like no that they want to do their little vignette. And I don't even
think that they're necessarily bad. There's just too many of them for forced walking
talks. They're pretty good for what they are. They just in general though,
that doesn't kind of like some of the little puzzling mini games. Yeah,
there was a cool rhythm game in there that I that I'm like,
you know, cool, you know, it was fun. It's a cool
moment. It's a great rhythm mini game, but it's a great moment.
I would have expected that that's cool that and I was just at that point,
I was like, oh, I'm really loving this game at that point.
And then uh, and then it's just like it doesn't really have that
many high mini game moments or just have enough to fill out the rest of
what you do in those off the open world moments. But anytime I'm in
the open world swinging around, uh, it really does just crush and rules.
It feels great to swing as the Spider Man yes and uh, and
getting the fully powered traversal traversal options uh and getting yes and and having like
the full web swing speed, which is like a separate thing than your your
skill tree. Yeah, that stuff really does unlock a ton of potential for
having a good time just being Spider Man in that world. And that goes
a long way for me. And really I was I was playing it,
and I was playing it before it was out, and we had had some
reports about, oh, the game is like, you know, pretty long
in some ways, but it's not too long, and I had heard some
like, oh, it's going to be you know, twenty hours maybe,
And so I'm playing it thinking I got a lot left. So when it
was suddenly wrapping up, I was like pretty relieved and like, oh no,
this is fine, this is totally good. So that helped me a
little bit. But yes, but I was. I was definitely done with
the combat by that point. There was it was just not doing anything for
me anymore. It's totally they could fix, like in a third one,
because you know, no spoilers, they're setting up for a third one and
Jeff, do you do you want to split that? Yes? I do.
Here's what it is. Do you know what the thing at the end
is? Like? Do you know the context of that? Oh? Oh
oh, that part of the end I had. I had a very vague
idea from so I can't remember where I got from, but I was able
to like put two in and be like I know that name, I know
this, let me go double check. Yeah, I'm very excited for that.
I think if they fixed the combent, that Spider Man three could be
like the best one. Yeah, I was. I was excited for like
the basic setup that they had, not not the like teaser set up,
the basic setup of like you know what, they have strength throughout this story,
and I'm like, oh, yeah, I can't wait to see that
in the next game. And then they put even more on top to be
like, oh, there's even more going on here, so yeah, pretty
pretty exciting, and everybody they're making a Howard, Doug, Michael, did
you have some say on this topic? I beat Spider Man two last night.
Yeah, good for you, but oh yeah, I want to do
that before I left my trip. Bring up one spoiler about the ending o?
Yeah? Yeah, give people five seconds. Will give people five seconds?
Spoiler warning for real, no complaining? All right, go ahead,
Mike. Okay, so again, I really I really like the game,
actually a lot more than you two, I think. But I really laughed
when the resolution to Mary Jane's character art was that she started a podcast.
It's the answer to all problems at the same time. That's you know,
no, not disnecessarily. That's kind of why thoughts Omnia Spider Many one's got
a podcast in that game. Yeah, I was afraid, like this,
really that is true? Everyone has a button? Okay it was it was
like this big emotional crescendo. You're right, that was pretty wild. Maybe
maybe we should do a full spoilerky, you know it comes from podcast absolutely,
sobby, and maybe it's true to his heart. All right, that's
good stuff. Thanks, thanks great, Thanks thanks man. Oh yeah,
my last one is gonna be quick because it's impressions. Mostly I'm playing Mario
Wonder. Of course I was playing Spider Man. That took up like all
the free time I had. I am one as I go, so things
are a little slow going. I just beat in your world. He keeps
insulting a speed Runner everything. I know the Kahana. Okay, I was
gonna say I'm the best Mario player giant bumb not even true. Here's the
tide for second for last Yeah, ohso yeah, I'm waving my hands because
Spidey spoilers are over. Mario Wonder is very good, but because I am
in early Mario, I'm not in love with it yet. I'm really having
fun with it. I really like it a lot, but yeah, it's
like I haven't gotten to the parts that I think I would like the best.
I usually like the back half of Mario games a little bit more.
And yeah, like I've gone to a couple of challenge levels and I'm like,
Okay, there's gonna be stuff for me, and I'm are you playing
with it online? Turned on? Yeah? I actually want to talk to
you about this. Usually not. There are a couple levels where they're like
clearly encouraging you to do so. And in those situations I find it fun.
But most of the time, because of the way I play game,
I play them in that chair back there, looking at my TV headphones on.
It's annoying to me to hear like toad goarm right right right in my
right ear. I'm like, okay, oh, I can see that.
Okay, yeah, I just want the music to wash over me and everything
like that, and so I just get immerse in the game. But yeah,
i'd when it situationally, I think it's fun, and then I want
to play online with people at some point because I yeah, yeah, I
think we should know what you guys were doing in the Grand Prix. That
was a lot of fun. Yes, that's just like there's just no caveats
there. That's just fantastic. That's like top multiplayer moments of the year stuff
right there. So yeah, that's definitely worth it. But I don't know.
I'm playing it as a from software online game and it's where I did
and yeah it was I have a lot of fun doing that, so h
yeah, I get it. Though with the audio, I'll be interested to
see where you end up with with Wonder because I think if you're feeling that
way, I think you'll probably you probably will like the back half. But
yeah, I could see coming out and being like, you know, it's
a good game obviously, but you know it's not. I didn't. It's
not gonna be like my top Mario game now, where for me it's like,
oh, it's it's up there with what, like I like three D
Mario Marile like two D marks. So yeah, I probably will really like
it, but we'll just see how much. Yeah, right, yeah,
totally. So I beat Wonder, I beaten Spider Man. What have I
been playing? Alan Wake two is really a thing I've been playing this week?
And yeah, I got fits and starts with that where I was kind
of I started it up like right before the game came out, and then
I got busy with some stuff and just family stuff, and then I've been
playing. I tried to get it going on the ally a little bit to
see if I could play some more of it, and that was okay,
but then I had some save problems, so it's just kind of like getting
in a rut with it. And then I had like a pretty long go
at playing it, and I was getting frustrated with navigating through the three D
space, and I put that on Twitter, and I think it is a
game that is so photo realistic and so good looking, and I think that
they are so hot with the lighting tech that sometimes these things don't play together
nicely when they like when they turn off all the rasterization and it's like,
okay, yeah, the only light you're gonna get is from an actual light
source that physically exists in this world, So either your flashlight or maybe the
sun, and there's so many fucking trees the sun's not going to get through
so good lun way that you mentioned that because we were talking in the game
club discussion we had, which by the way, is on YouTube podcast services
everywhere now, about Resident Evil to remake, and I was telling Mike the
way I played that game was lights off at night on an o led TV,
So the only source of light in my entire apartment were from the lightsars
in the game. Oh that's interesting. Yeah, and that works fantastically,
And it works fantastically in the Raccoon, say, police department in a forest
where you're trying to find your way around somewhere that's organed. Yeah, maybe
not as much. And I think there's parts of the game that way.
They're thinking this is a choice, and I don't care that is what does
that have to do with me enjoying the game? I don't what you can
make with all kinds of choices that could be accidents or choices. That doesn't
matter to me. What matters to me is I got frustrated occasionally, and
I don't want to be frustrated playing this game, and not for those reasons
anyhow, And I do they play into Does that frustration play into the themes?
I don't think so, not really. I don't know, Christian,
what were're gonna say. I saw a lot of people having the same problem
with like specifically the first boss. For the people that were yes, well
that okay, that part right, I think is supposed to be disorienting.
It is there. It is supposed to be a loop of the place that
you will go around, and she says it, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I saw a lot of people being like, oh, I was
like hit a tree all the time. I'm constantly like running into like places
where I can like advance because of vegetation that kind of stuff. So yeah,
that was happening to me. On the stream today and that was like
my fourth time playing that, considering I played it did that. I had
three tries when we were playing it the other night, and then on the
stream I was doing it again. I'm like, I feel much more confident
now and I'm getting around, and yet I was still being like, all
right, here he comes, I'm gonna turn around. I just came from
this direction. I'm gonna head back, and it's like, oh no,
now here's a big rock wall. This is what the hell is happening?
Is the level changing? No, I think I just misjudged where I was
coming from and ran in the wrong direction a little bit, and now I'm
stuck up on this wall and I have to turn around again and head back
out and whatever. It's not the end of the world, but and I
am past that part, and I don't think it's going to be as frustrating
to get around after the forest. Yes, that's what, Yeah, that's
what I wanted to let me catch you. After that part, it becomes
more like more not lineal, but like you know where you have to go
and you don't have to like deal with that type of environment. Again.
I didn't play a lot of the Saga part, because Saga, I'm sorry,
this is a little bit spoiling. You play with Saga on the on
the yes, it's a little bit. You just like, this is like
the first two hours of the game, three hours if you depending how much
you explore. Saga is on the town, and when you play Alan Wake,
it's on New York. It's on like the city, and Alan Wake
you don't have that much problem because it's just like a city. You just
don't run into like trees and shit. But yet the Saga part is like
at the beginning, it's like that's the part that everybody complains about with we
reason, so yes, I think yeah, And I just think it's for
me. I think it's exascerate, exaccerperbated because I think developers are having a
difficult time understanding how light's going to behave when they do turn off rasterization and
it is all ray tracing, because it's like, oh, this is way
darker than I think they even intended to be, because I just I'm just
I can't see a single thing, and I out I now play with all
my lights off, and it's like no, that doesn't help really, And
I'm like I'm messing with all the brightness settings everything. It's like, no,
it's just they have you flashlights the brightness a little bit officially, which
is signing that base lighting always helped with yes, exactly, and so I
think there's just a little bit of growing pains there. This is not the
only game to have this issue. I'm trying to think the other thing I
was just playing that had this problem. It was Cyberpunk. Yeah, Cyberpunk,
the other one that has the full global illumination where those early parts were
dead black. I remember you asking me, can you upgrade your eyes or
anything because I can't say shit, yeah, And it's like that's another one
that has the path tracing and it's at global illumination, and I think they
just don't predict what it's going to look like when people don't have whatever light
source or whatever. So whatever the game itself though, Alan Wick too,
I am enjoying it. I think that they're doing a lot of cool things.
But I'm pretty early on still, and I'm hearing as i'm playing,
like Jan and Baklar, who have played a lot more than me, were
watching me replace sections they had already seen, and they're having all these revelations
and they're like, oh my god, piecing all this stuff together, and
I think that's the stuff that is leading people to say stuff like this is
a masterpiece. This is one of the best like examples of what a video
game can be. And I'm not I'm not anywhere near that yet. Personally,
I'm just like waiting to find out what makes this game good to so
many people other than I am being drawn in by the story. I think
the mysteries are entertaining. I think the way that the game lets you put
the cases up on the wall and put the pieces of evidence up there physically
yourself. It's like you know, in elementary school, writing down your letters
so you can learn how to write write your letters better, and that repetition
and actually going through there and like hearing your teacher explain it as you're writing
it down, doing like the multiple faceted ways of learning the game. Doing
that, it is causing me to ingrain this mystery into my brain a little
bit more. So it's sticking with me a little bit more, and that's
making me think about like, oh what then, what is this? What
is the question? What is going on? And so I like all that
stuff. I'm just like, Okay, the game's gonna have to do more
to get me to the point where everyone else is at. And I think
I think I'm starting to get the sense a lot more is about to happen
in terms of being meta, in terms of playing and being a meta on
a level that I wasn't even expecting hearing people being like, oh, this
game is really meta, and it's like, no, I think it's going
to go even further than that. Like I picked up on a little tibbitt
of like as I was picking up the first page in the florest, and
these are the pages that Alan Witwake writes, and he's writing about the character
you're playing, but then he makes a reference to someone playing a game,
and it's like, wait, wait are they? Oh? Are they?
They're talking about me? It's the player's Oh, okay, that's fucking cool.
Let's go let's dive into that. Not enough games have actually done that.
So I'm hoping this sticks to landing for me. I hope I feel
the way that everyone else feels about allen Wick two when it's all said and
done. But at about two three hours in getting to the point where I'm
finally starting to play as Allen Wake. I think we'll see, we'll see
where it comes at, and I'll have played a lot more by next week
and we'll talk about it then. You know. No, I was about
to ask you if he knows Sean and Butler played the first Alan Wake,
because this game has a like if you play the first Island Wake is it
becomes really special because you know everything that's going on. No, Jan only
played like an hour of Allen Wick and then I think he said he went
and watched a video or something because he was so curious after playing this game
for a while. You play control though, yes, yes it's not necessary,
but if you play Allen wag one, it becomes really special because like
all the callbacks and all the reference and everything, all the all the lore
for the lore freaks like me, Do you think I do you think I
would get some magic out of it? If I play through this game really
like it and then go to play Allen Remastered afterward? Do you think there
will still be some cool cool feelings that way? Yes? Yes, yes,
okay, so I think that's probably what I'm gonna end up doing,
especially if I really enjoy this. Yeah, it's at the very least gorgeous
game. Really good looking. Uh and it's just great art design, great
just great tech all across the board. And if you can max it out
on PC, it's it is a showcase for hardware these days. So very
cool. All right? That does a couple super chests get fantastic? Hit
me with those cool First of all, shouts to Rodrigo Pinto who became a
Lincoln member. Thank you for that. Thank you. JD. Camp contributed
to the Juicy discussion Astros Playroom, which we did talk about a little bit.
There has got something definitely interesting game. It definitely is so. And
then last one here from Uril Delgado. First of all, did you watch
the Five Nights of Phrase movie? Hellmo? No? And then quick,
well, Mike's not here. What's your favorite apples? There's is Granny Smith
because they're sour, and pink Ladies are a strong second, it is God?
What's the Apple brand that is actually the best? Why is it slip
in my mind? Yeah? So do you know what the deal is with
apples? And what's the deal of apple? So apples take a long time
to grow the apple trees, right, So what you can do is if
you're a manufacturer of apples, you can patent them. You can patent living
things like a seed if you create it yourself. But patents only last for
twenty years. So by the time that you actually have a grove of enough
apples to make any money from, it's not gonna matter because the patent's already
going to be up and then everyone else could be doing it at the same
time as you. So what you do instead is you trademark trademarks forever.
So you trademark Honey Crisp, which is actually the best brand. And so
instead of being like, go get an apple, like just go get a
pop, now, you go get a Coca cola, like you get a
Honey Crisp. Honey Crisp is the Coca Cola of apples. It is far
the best. It is a lot of people are saying this chat Honey Crisp.
Honey Crisp is one of my favorite foods, period, is what I'm
like, I love honey crisp apples, and I'm like, this last week
we were eating a ton of Like we went picking apples early in the season,
and so we have a fridge drawer full of these and because we picked
them ourselves, like right off the tree. They they've been lasting very long.
So I've just been eating these apples non stop for weeks now. And
this past week we made a bunch of apple stuff, and stuff makes apple
crisp with a bunch of cinnamon on it. It's kind of like this deconstructed
apple pie. And I'm just eating so much apple shit and I'm like eating
apple crisp and then I'm taking an apple to go and I eating I'm just
like many we had some apple cider, and I'm just like I fucking love
apples, missing out. Apples are great, awesome. We drink it's a
custom here in Argentina to drink apple cider or like like holidays, Like yeah,
the first it's it's pretty much just like the fall time, so when
we do applesider. But I always like, right around now is when I'm
I'm probably gonna go to the sort ofmorrow and like grab a gallon because again,
the last three weekends we've been going to this farm to get more apple
cider and apple cider donuts or ye, and it's been fantastic. Yeah,
I've been like, man, Mike would be like he wouldn't be able to
be in my house right now, so I keep so huositive yes to answer
the question, Honey, Crest is my second I do. I'm like Yuriel.
I like this the sourness of it. I used to like the Granny
Smith a lot. Yes, when when I was working at Kroger, that
would I work the opening shift because as the bookkeeper and so my morning routine
was I would buy a donut, buy a little thing of milk, you
know, buy a Grandsmith apple and it was a great little way to start
my morning. So yep, man, good good apples, or so I'm
gonna go get one right after the show. All right, Shaw would be
good? Should we wrap this up? Let's wrap this up. I'm hitting
the button. Oh yeah, And then I'm gonna ask Sean. Tell people
where they can find you on the internet. They in fine me on Twitter
dot com still as Turbo Shawn Underscore and everywhere else has turbot Shawn Shaw.
And I'm on Blue Sky and Twitch and everywhere else professionally and catch me doing
stuff here like we got Jeopardy stuff. New public ones should be up tomorrow
today for most of you listening to this on Friday, and then we got
the private one for the patrons with Bailey Myers. That's gonna be exclusive them
for one month. But people always say, like, you know, a
new episode is like the best one we've done. This is actually one of
the best ones we've done. We had a lot of fun, you know,
it was a really good time. Bailey keeps giving me shit in our
meetings where it's like, well, at least this it's not a bunch of
bullshit. I don't know us this information. And then of course you can
find me helping ou out over at Giant Bomb social media stuff and our stuff
like editing and pointing together a lot of the plans for our extra live stuff
over there. So hey, if you want to help us raise money good
word in hospital, thank you very much. Check our streams. We got
the community streams going on this weekend. Next weekend will be us doing some
stuff and then the GB West crew and then you, Mike and Dan and
a special guests are gonna be doing some stuff the weekend after that. Yes,
all kinds of extra life stuff raising Mike for the kids. Follow us
on social media and see whatever me and Nikky tweet your way. Yeah,
that weekend not the weekend. I'm in Minnesota the weekend before. When when
West Coast excuse me, when the West coast is doing something, when I
do a little bit of I'll do a stream and I'm gonna be playing some
DDR and some other stuff, so I'll forget that set up. But I
got I just found the pad. It's USB. I'm gonna get the whole
thing going with that whole DDR like open source thing that's out there with like
a million songs. I'll play a bunch of that. So that'll be a
good time and we'll raise some money for a good cause. It'll be good.
I'm Jeff Grub on Twitter, Jeff Grub on Twitch. I am gonna
make a thing about streaming a bunch here as we get into November and December,
especially in December. Get when we get back from Game of the Year,
I'm gonna be streaming a ton, but I'm trying to stream a couple
of times before then, so look out for that. In the meantime,
thanks everybody for watching. Until next time, have a good one, take
care of yourself, and goodbye. We need a great a great job.
Most people are being him ring all right, Jeff. To see each other
here. Okay, I am an animal. It's doing for real. This
is a break. We are in the break. You see that man Minatti
and the Chad backseat podcasting. I was focused on you. I don't look
at that son of a bitch professional. That's I got. I got pulled
up and you want me to do them? Okay, if you're you're ready
to get back into it, ye, all right, let's do it.
Let's do it. These are messages from our sponsor, whoever it is,
Raytheon, Thank you rathe and we'll take your money. Northrop Grumman missile.
They mother. I'm just I'm a huge fan of the Patriot missile for years.
Me and my family, we love it here. Okay. I don't
think that Tony Stark is a cool fellow. I don't know absolute guns and
weapons are neat. Yeah, he built out on the cave. He built
it, all right. Let's hoop me up on my freaking which had that
is there? Congratulations? There we go primary shut out, motherfucker. Oh
my god. But I mean again, I had the goalie, so shoutouts
pretty good for me for my team. But I would rather the Red Wings
win. Okay, let's see here. It's sucking in this born who knows
what's Oh damn. The other goalie did really well too. Ship. Okay,
okay, I should be ready when you are, Jeff. Okay,
well I get that format in the three three piece. Uh yeah, let's
do that real quick. What's going on around with whatever I want? Oh?
Also, it was while we were talking about something I saw Nicky popped
in for a little bit. So if they're still Nicky, thank you Icky.
Uh they were doing a cool what's the fuser? Is that? The
game game is called stream? The other night? I love I love when
they do. Oh yeah, it's fun, fun stuff. Okay, it's
just the thought of like being able to hike a PS five Oh yeah,
because like you can't find you can't fake that ship. What if you fake
it and you send it to like like a hard drive instead of and then
they already got a custom firmware and stuff running. That's good, And then
I just move you up there. I look forward to like running you know,
one hundred and twenty patch stuff on PS four games discord, where to
put the cameras for different people. I'm not gonna worry about it right now.
Yeah, no, uh man, that'd be nice. That would be
something. Yeah, we'll be better. That's right. It isn't good.
It's not good software. Oh yeah, I mean yeah exactly, it could
be better. I mean we're doing things sort of it that they did not
intend to be done with it. Reality. Okay, we are set up.
I'm gonna bring us back in all. Let's go. This is a
break. Thank you reading. Your weapons are awesome. Okay, let's get
this off. Let's get you in the mill. We're just doing. What
are we doing? What's the thing? A mount Rushmore of juicy games?
Okay, then let's bring up. Now we're not doing we could do,
oh, we could do do a real quick bad one. If he's listening.
I thought Mike was going to be gone. The idea was going to
be help us just come up with the most annoying mount Rushmore of Disney.
We got this, Okay, like two minutes. We'll do in two minutes.
Okay, okay, great, great and chat. Feel free to throw
it in there and then we'll just put it on Twitter and like you should
just leave. Could to make the effect this? Yeah, you're not gonna
want to hear this. Okay, let's hear sheets I might actually already have
up the Rushmore thing here. No I start anyone shoots not Google dot com,
Google dot com. No, no, we're not We're not formatic good
yet. Hang on, everybody, Actually I can bring you down there.
You wolves the entire wolve says Craigs hate Pokemon. Goddamn. They've always been
like in that eighty range. They've always been there because they're like, yeah,
it's really fun, but boy, sure is the same thing again.
That's always my review is all right, let's do this one. And then
what other evil corporation should I think all the time? The o c uh
boweing, yeah, boeing, boeing, boeing. Who makes the other?
What's the other coming to mixed jets other than Northrop Groom? And and uh
you can do? I think black Rock some PMCs. Our family has always
had a favorite PMC, and that PMC is black Rock. Okay, let
me just put the game black Rock, Yes, the Connect game. Yes,
Oh, I'm sure that did well. I had to write a message
to Jane the other day about I just thought of a really bad game I
want them to play, please remind me. And I was trying to think
of it just a second ago and I can at all. Yeah, this
is great. All right, let's see here, not rushmore of juicy.
Yeah that that knife, that knife missile, that's not a joke. That
does matterfucker really put knives into a missile. Yeah, that's just cool.
It wasn't a knife missile like you know, some killer killer ship. Probably
it was like, oh, you're wrong. They probably put like probably put
like shed some metal. No, they put actual knives in the missile.
They blew up like the gave me. We had so many knives he didn't
know what to do with and just put it right next to some company and
they and they're like, all right, we're gonna take these. Okay,
we're set up ready to go. Let's get back into it. Let's do
it. Do it,