Any fans of this show. The nonprofits know by now that Oklahoma is no
stranger to allowing Jesus into their classrooms, But are they also allowing satan in
as well? Eli, You're here to break it down for us what's going
on in Oklahoma? So Oklahoma House Bill fourteen twenty five is going to require
public schools to excuse up to three class period absences per student per week to
attend class in religious or moral instructions. The classes will take place off campus,
but they do not require a set curriculum or to be even taught by
qualified teachers, but they count as elective credits. The Satanic Temple has established
the Hellian Academy of Independent Learning or HAIL in other states where release time classes
already exist, but Oklahoma would be the first state in which HALE can offer
academic credit for the courses that they teach. Since this article was first published,
it has been updated twice to include that's state Governor Stitt has indeed signed
the bill into law. So this is law in Oklahoma now. And it
includes a message as well from state Superintendent Ryan Walters making it clear that he
does not intend to allow Satanists to participate in the program. These articles by
Hemet Meta at The Friendly Atheist last updated on June sixth, twenty twenty four.
Yeah, the wonderful Hemet Meta. I always love reading his stuff.
Eli, why do we have to release kids from school? Can't these people
teach their kids religion at home? You know? That is exactly what I
thought when we talked about life Wise Academy around a month ago. And life
Wise Academy has mentioned in this so this is based in Ohio, and they've
been going in and bussing, taking a bus to the school to take kids
off campus for this. The reason they have to do this, of course,
is because you can't teach about religion in publicly funded schools. I think
that the parents are the ones that like, if you want to teach your
kid's things that are not true, you have to do that, and you
have to be able to justify why you believe that, because if you can't
justify why you believe something to your child, then you can't justify it to
yourself either, and you shouldn't even be believing it. I don't understand why
they need it to be taught in school so badly. I don't know why
they can't, like it's when I was a kid, it was just like
I went to church as a kid once a Sunday. Sometimes Sunday nights we'd
do like the King's Kids musical thing and we would just go like whatever.
But it was just once a week, and there was never this whole idea
of like we I didn't even think about it in school, Like it was
never something that we thought about having taught at school. I always it was
just separate. I never. I don't see why this push to get Jesus
into the schools as has taken such an increase in intensity lately. Yeah,
but Sidney, it's only three classes a week. I mean, what is
the big deal. The big deal is that Oklahoma has ranked forty ninth out
of fifty in education and they can't afford to miss any school no matter what
it's for. That's it. That's the whole thing is Like I will listen
to you talk about the benefits of skipping school to learn whatever else you want.
When you bare Minimum Bare Minimum aren't in the bottom ten. When you're
like, if you if you make it to number thirty out of fifty in
terms of educational quality content, then we can talk about skipping school to learn
other stuff. And also I looked into it and I could not find a
single writing program at any university that did not offer fiction. So they've got
a chance to learn that anyway in the future. It's fine. They don't
need to do it in high school when they're already in the bottom two.
It's like, look it up. Anybody who's offended by that, probably from
Oklahoma. Look it up. Like you know, like my mom would always
say things when I was a kid, like, hey, get like,
we can't even talk about this until you get this done. You know,
like, we can't even talk about what you're gonna do then until you got
you get the first step score. You know what. I'll make it easier
be in the top forty seven, and then we can talk about what you're
allowed to skip school for. But until then, I don't want to hear
it. Yeah, I don't know if they're going to get that far.
If we consider the policies that the state superintendent of public educator or what's his
title, it's like the superintendent of public Education, I think for Oklahoma,
Ryan Walters. In any case, if we keep seeing the policies that he
is supporting and trying to drive home. They're probably going to stay where they're
at, right. I think the problem is I think the problem is that
Oklahoma didn't ban the Bluest Eye from their library, and it was all just
downhill from there. Yeah. Yeah, So when it comes to book banning,
Oklahoma is no stranger to that. But you know, when it comes
to being unconstitutional, well, they're also no stranger. And Ryan Walter says
eli that there's going to be no Satanists. And let's not forget that the
Satanists do want an equal part of this to be constitutional, of course,
but Ryan Walter says, there will be no Satanists in this program. As
the state superintendent of education, that's it. Does he have any authority and
can he get his way? I mean, he absolutely has authority. I
hope that he doesn't get his way because I think it would be well,
does he have the authority to prevent I don't know that he does. I
think it would be unconstitutional for him to prevent the Satanic Temple from participating because
I think it's blatant discrimination of a protected status, and as an elected official,
he just is not allowed to do that. That is what the First
Amendment is intended for directly. It seems like he doesn't understand the position that
he holds or like what he's responsible for the video, Like his his statement
to the Satanists, it was it just seemed kind of like, I don't
know what it was. Like, I know, you guys like Fladay and
say that, yeah it was. It was really performative. Yeah, but
it just like really kind of it was. It was an attack sort of.
It wasn't just like, hey, like this is the case, Like
I don't think the Satanism is a religion, so I'm not going to allow
that. It was like Sudanism is not a religion. You know, you're
you're always gonna lie and say that it is. But I'm like, you're,
like you hold office man like that. It seems like just an unbecoming
way to kind of conduct himself. And it's unconstitutional as well, So it
just looks bad all around on Yeah, and you know what's funny to me,
satan belongs to the Christians. I mean, that's their guy. That's
their guy. They should recognize that this is part of the dogma. This
is very much part of the religion, right, It's almost centered on the
religion if you think about it. I mean, a major premise is that
we're fighting against Satan, right, so how could this not be religious at
its core? But it just goes to show his ignorance because you know,
Satanism is actually a very humanist organization, right, and they actually do a
lot of good. I remember something like this taking place in oh Man,
It's been a while, but I think it was like Minnesota where we talked
about this about a year ago on the nonprofits. But you know, there
was a school that wanted to do a similar or an act a similar policy
like this, so or excuse me, it was like a town council and
somebody waited online to you know, vote in favor of it and say thank
you. And he gave a speech, thank you for allowing me to bring
my Satan's Little Devils after school program into the public school. And that was
it. He was brilliantly created it after school program called Satan's Little Devils.
Anyway, I digress a little bit, but it's really fun when people can
People could come up with Sydney, go ahead. You had a comment,
So listen, you guys are thinking about this all the wrong way. This
man is a genius, and I'm going to tell you why, because even
even though he's in leadership in Oklahoma, I imagine he still knows his job.
And so state state laws super cannot override national laws. So, for
example, if you are given a right based on the Constitution, no matter
what laws that state comes up with, it can't. It cannot negate your
constitutional rights. So this man knows that he knows that there are certain things
he can't do and are not allowed and are unconstitutional. But what he can
do is he can secure his reelection by making sure everyone knows he ain't gonna
have no Satanist in his school. So when the polls come around, whether
or not the Satanists ever show up. But I don't think they're going to
show up. I think Satanists do not care about this man's town. But
when the next election comes up and people are trying to figure out who they're
going to vote for, you know who they're going to vote for. That
man who stood up and said out loud in today's America that he does not
support Satanism. He stood in a time when the liberals want everyone to worship
satan and he said that he wasn't going to allow the devil in his school,
and he's gonna win. Yeah, And this speaks to religion's relationship with
education, if you will. I mean, this is a lot of material
to miss out on let's face it, taking kids out of school for three
different classes a week to learn learn what basically a destructive and ancient mythology instead
of actually earning their education. And I think it would actually serve him well
to keep people stupid, you know, so that they do they do vote
for him, and of course that that's kind of a grand scale kind of
thing. But you know, Eli, what does it say about religion's relationship
to education when people are okay with just not championing education and instead sticking their
kids in church and and and you know, covering them with religion. I
fuel, well, they they don't think that they are They don't think that
putting their kids in churches is contrary to education. They think that spiritual and
religious education is a part of the the whole you know, education experience,
and that if you're you're not learning scripture and you're not learning you know,
Jesus, then you're not really learning what's true. The idea that I don't
believe I accept that that religion prevents scientific progress or prevents academic progress progress in
general. I've said a number of times that like any good thing we get
from religion, we can get from a secular source, and like do it
just as well or better and the and that includes education. Absolutely, the
things that there are a good reason to believe are true are the things we
should be learning during the school day. Those are the things we want to
teach our society. And it comes to personal beliefs about metaphysical or origins of
the universe that don't fit with with data that we have collected over centuries,
like those are things that you just don't teach to people as if they are
true, because they probably aren't. And that's the religion's mo so to speak,
is just to stick to this one thing, regardless of the information they
get that contradicts it, like, Nope, this is what's true. You
are lying, you're wrong, your conspiracy, you'ar them. It's the idea
is to keep people in there, like you've said, and as long as
they continue to believe that, as long as they continue to believe the dogma,
then you can control them. Well, Sidney, you brought up the
election aspect of this, and you know, when it comes to education,
wouldn't Walters be better off saying, hey, look, I took us from
forty nine to forty six or forty nine to thirty nine, and isn't this
counterproductive? I mean, what are your thoughts on that? So I think
one he says I'm not going to allow Satanists in school, and everybody goes,
yeah, that's right, and then it gets knocked down by the Supreme
Court and he can say, uugh, I did my best, you guys,
but you know, the the d words in office blocked everything that I
tried, and everybody's going to go you know who else tried really hard to
save everyone and was persecuted Jesus right, So you're doing the It's okay,
we forgive you. You tried, but the government blocked you, big bad
government. So they're like, he doesn't have to do anything. He just
has to say this is what we're doing. And also, I do think
it's counterproductive. I think it's incredibly counterproductive. I think it will be nothing
but harmful. I also think we'll see that the people who choose to take
the opportunity to leave class we're going to see a pattern in the classes they
choose to leave. And I wouldn't be surprised if you look into this deeper,
if you spend like a day deep diving into this. This probably actually
started because there was a lot of arguments between parents in terms of what their
kids were learning during science class, what they were learning during history. And
the only way that they could pacify these parents is by being like, here's
a legal way that you can pull your kid out of US history, and
you can pull your kid out of science, and they're still learning because they're
reading about history, but it's biblical history, and so in my life,
yeah, yeah exactly, and so yes, do I think it's detrimental,
Yes, we'll do only bad things. Yes. Is it doing exactly he
wants it to do? Yes, Yes it is. Yes, is all
across the board. And the only people that will be negatively impacted by this
are the students. Eli. There are some I'm gonna put this in air
quotes secular safeguards, right they in the school or the state champions this idea
that well, we're going to keep it secular because we have these safeguards in
place. Do you want to talk about that at all. Yeah, so
they Some of the stipulations of the bill include that, like, the school
cannot fund this in any way. It all has to be funded externally.
It must be taught by an outside organization that's leading to classes. The parents
must opt into the program, so it's not a default. Your kid is
going to go unless you tell us no. And there are certain classes that
they can't skip. And I went and I double checked it when you were
talking about like this, like which classes they were looking at, because the
only ones mentioned in the article are English in math. I haven't looked any
further into it, but I'm curious to see if science science classes are classes
that are eligible to be skipped for the purpose of attending this this off campus
class. I really want to figure that out, but I'll have to do
another time. Are I would imagine. So, so, these are things
I think definitely make it I put it as more constitutional before, but I
don't know if that's like, I don't know if that's not your way to
describe it. I think things that definitely make it sit a little better with
me, Like it would be worse if those things weren't in place. But
I don't think that necessarily helps in any way. It's still very clearly like
a poorly disguised attempt to like push Christian nationalism in Oklahoma. And I mean,
yeah, I don't know if I have much more to expand on that.
I just it. I those safeguards I think are just for show.
I think it's like just to it's a way, it's a way to justify
or or to fight back and say no, this is not unconstitutional. And
I think we're in a bit of a dichotomy here, or or there's an
ambiguity to why this is so bad. Right. There's there's the education portion,
which, by the way, I just have to say English math taking
away a children, a child's ability to read and to handle their finances.
That's going to keep them dependent on the state and dependent on you know,
the church for what it's worth. But then we've also got this other aspect
of constitutionality. And you know what is really the goal here? I mean,
what are we really upset about? If you will, would we be
happier if other religions, Satanist groups were able to take part equally? I
mean, will this will this make us go yeah, okay, it's constitutional?
Or would it still be just as bad because we're taking kids out of
school city. What do you think? So if let's just say Oklahoma tomorrow
was like, you know what, we're going to open this to Muslims,
We're going to open this to people who are Jewish. Great. I would
love to see the percentage of the population that is impacted by either of those
belief systems, right. Just like it's easy to claim that you're political stance
is something that you know eventually is going to get blocked by higher powers than
you and you're like, oh no, it's also easy to be welcoming and
inclusive in an area where you don't have to worry about this people actually showing
up, Like I would love to know how many Satanists actually live in Oklahoma?
Right. There are certain people, certain people in this country who I
think their number one way of thinking and behaving is based on problems they've invented
in their mind and are now defending against problems that they invented in their brain.
Like what if Satanist show up? What if a bunch of people who
are Muslim show up? Okay, maybe cross that bridge when you come to
it. Maybe, But in the same way that it's useless for him to
say no Satanists allowed, because you just can't do that. It's also useless
too, and it's performative, and it's a tactic to include people that you
know so you won't actually have show up to stuff. And it's easy to
say, fine, will allow everybody when you know the only people that'll show
up are Christians and non Christians, and both of those can be true.
So if somebody who was non Christian came out, and maybe they live in
like southern Louisiana and they said, you know what, I'm going to make
an afterschool atheist program, statistically, I feel like that's performative and it wouldn't
actually be doing anything. But they're pandering toward an audience that's going to go,
wow, good for you, even though nobody shows up. And you
know something, you raise an interesting point because the group, the Satanist group
that actually showed interest in this is based out of Massachusetts. I mean exactly.
They're all the way up in the northeast. Right. There's nobody in
Oklahoma that is subscribing to a Satanist theory. And you know, we covered
this on the or I shouldn't say Satanist theory, Satanist practices, if you
will. But we covered a similar issue on the nonprofits a couple of weeks
ago when we talked about Ron DeSantis, the governor of Flowari, who invented
this this conspiracy, the conspiracy about how Democrats are planning on world domination and
they're going to achieve that by feeding people artificial beef. What well, go
figure that the largest beef producing population in the country is in Florida, right,
so we've got to create Yeah, we've got to create a boogeyman.
So so you know, making these comparisons, you know, I want to
draw upon the point that Eli made in his notes preparing for tonight's show.
You made a comparison to the group life wise, and I was I wanted
to know if you could expand on that. Yeah, So, like I
mean earlier, they are based out of I think Greenville, Ohio. I
could be wrong. They're in Ohio and they're doing the same thing already.
Basically, they take they have this really rad like big red school bus that
they take to the school and like all the kids that are going to go,
they get these red shirts and they put on they go to the to
some church or somewhere off campus for a free period, like a library period
or something, and they apparently are teaching like over thirty five thousand students across
the country and like fifty I think fifty three school districts. They go and
they take these kids at a place where they're learning like real true things and
teach them about like magic and how to hate things the right way. And
that is where I think, like you asked a little bit earlier, like
does you know including Satanists or including all religions make it, you know,
more constitutional? Sure? Does it make me happier about it? No?
Because I still don't like religion. I still don't think religion should be taught
to kids, especially in school. And that's sort of just where I land
on it. And I think Greenville really or sorry, life wise really sort
of as far as I can tell, it seems like they sort of opened
the door ands and when they started getting so successful, now it's it's starting
to take root in other places. Yeah, yeah, thank you for that
comparison, Sydney. I'm going to give you the closing remarks and we will
head out. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I don't think any religion
should be taught in school, and I don't think Oklahoma can afford to pull
kids out of school right now. Like again, if they like, if
they prove to me in the next four years that they can start passing tests
with higher grades, that their literacy levels will improve at this and that and
the other, that it means so much to them that they're willing to pull
their grades up by the bootstraps and change their educational stance. Then we can
talk about making changes, which I still don't think should involve any religion whatsoever.
But this idea that the the state that is struggling second to last in
education in this country is like, you know what'll help less school? Yeah,
religion may very well have a place in school, but it's certainly not
in place of English, math or any other category. In fact, it
should be taught alongside the other mythologies. I read the book I read.
I read the work of Odysseus the Iliad in eighth grade, and you know
that would be a perfect place to introduce there, Yeah, mythological thinking