WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:11.519 Hello, and welcome to Psychic Teachers. I'm your host, Deb Bowen, 2 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:15.599 and I'm Samantha Fay and Deb, it's so nice to have you back with 3 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:19.079 us. Thank you, Samantha, it's nice to be here. I'm happy 4 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:23.519 to be back with everybody. I got a great week last week, writing 5 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:27.199 in a beautiful place. But I'm ready to rock and roll and talk about 6 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:31.719 a lot of other Psychic Teachers kind of stuff this week. So well, 7 00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:36.799 you were missed, all right. Today we are discussing one of the world's 8 00:00:36.799 --> 00:00:43.159 most renowned, studied and verified mediums to have ever lived, Leonora Piper. 9 00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:46.880 Did you know a lot about her before this, dub, I did not 10 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:50.880 vague stuff, you know, but no what the details that you have given 11 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.840 us in this episode. So I'm excited. Yeah, me too. I 12 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:59.240 mean she's often mentioned if you read books about studying psychics and mediums, or 13 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:02.000 if you listen to cash, you know her name will be dropped here and 14 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:04.840 there. But I didn't know that she was the most studied medium ever, 15 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:08.719 and I didn't know really anything about the intricacies of her work. In her 16 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:15.000 life, she had to battle skeptics, test critics, and scrutiny spanning three 17 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:19.159 decades and two continents. But before we get further into her fascinating life's work, 18 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:23.280 let's start with some basics about her background and how she got started as 19 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:27.319 a medium. She was born in eighteen fifty nine, the fourth of six 20 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:32.319 children to a family in New Hampshire, and something I want to stress repeatedly 21 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:36.000 is she was very normal, very ordinary, very average, Like she wasn't 22 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:41.000 below average or above average in anything, and she was just a normal, 23 00:01:41.239 --> 00:01:44.640 you know, wife and mother trying to get through her day of laundry and 24 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:49.079 cooking, and also had this enormous, amazing world of spirit around her. 25 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.719 As a child, she did have a few notable psychic experiences. She knew 26 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:57.560 her aunt would die two days before she passed. She was eight years old 27 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:02.319 and playing outside when she felt kind of like a pain and heard like a 28 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:07.000 tiny ringing noise on the right side of her head, followed by hearing a 29 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:14.400 long s sound, and then she heard this sound evolve into the name Sarah 30 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:19.360 and heard the message Aunt Sarah, I am not dead. I live in 31 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:23.919 another place still. She ran inside and told her mother, who made a 32 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:27.280 note of the day and time, and they were shocked to learn that Aunt 33 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:30.840 Sarah had died. At the precise moment, Leonora received the message that she 34 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:36.400 was alive and well in another dimension, and she often spoke of seeing bright 35 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:38.800 lights and faces in her bedroom when she was a little kid trying to fall 36 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:45.560 asleep. Her parents worried about Christians, so Leonora was raised a Congregationalist and 37 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:49.599 was applauded by her father for having read the Bible cover to cover before she 38 00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:53.759 was nine years old. As a teen, she was into sports and needlework. 39 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.639 She went on to marry a Bostonian named William Piper when she was twenty 40 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:01.400 two, and they had two daughters. Now I've read that he managed a 41 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:05.360 grocery store, and I've read that he was a salesman, So either he 42 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:09.039 did both or sold groceries. I don't know, but again, very average 43 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:15.400 middle class family. After she had her first daughter, Leonora tripped and fell, 44 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:20.680 hitting her head, and she often speculated if this accident is what led 45 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:24.919 to her intuitive abilities, which I found really interesting because we've seen this before. 46 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:29.599 Like, deb do you remember hearing about Peter Hurkoys. He was a 47 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:32.520 kind of a big deal in the seventies. I do, okay, So 48 00:03:32.599 --> 00:03:37.439 he was a Dutch painter who feld four stories from a ladder while painting a 49 00:03:37.479 --> 00:03:40.960 house one day. And he too was an average ordinary guy until he hit 50 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:46.000 his head. When he regained consciousness four days later, he suddenly possessed psychic 51 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:51.879 powers. His music and artistic talents were also greatly enhanced, and he was 52 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:55.439 often used by police to locate missing people, which he would do through psychometry, 53 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:00.080 and he worked with law enforcement on many high profile care like the Boston 54 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:04.439 strangler and the Manson murders. John Holland, you guys know my Johnny who 55 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:09.599 I love on a door. He says a car accident jump started his abilities, 56 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:13.280 and I came across I was trying to research, like, you know, 57 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:17.120 do head injuries go hand in hand with psychic abilities? And I found 58 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:23.639 this interesting article about an intuitive named Sean Laurel. He says that he experienced 59 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:29.399 a head trauma from a car accident and afterwards he could see people's thoughts like 60 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:31.519 just hovering above their head, you know, like in the Electric company or 61 00:04:31.519 --> 00:04:34.920 something, and that he could see the words kind of like an a nebula 62 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:41.800 star formation. Can you imagine that? Deb No, yeah, it freaked 63 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:44.360 his wife out. I was like, yeah, it would me too, 64 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:47.680 so he left his job as a rehabilitation therapist to work full time as a 65 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:51.759 reader. So then I found this other study that the School for Psychic Studies 66 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:59.839 in England did. They looked at psychics versus non psychics, very very comprehensive 67 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:03.680 and study, and they found that sixty percent of the psychics had experienced head 68 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:09.639 trauma and exhibited some damage to their frontal lobes. Now, not all of 69 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:14.120 them, but that's a big percentage. It is a big percentage. Samantha, 70 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:16.439 have you had a head energy. No, not that I know of, 71 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:20.319 but oh well, I mean I did follow a lot as a kid. 72 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:24.560 Like Remember I told that story of how I thought because my name was 73 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:27.959 Samantha, and I saw weird stuff when I was trying to fall asleep as 74 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.879 a kid that I had like magic powers. So I jumped off my parents' 75 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:36.040 station wagon, oops, and I hit my head. My sisters tell this 76 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:40.319 story all the time. We lived on a pond that would freeze over in 77 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:44.720 the winter, and they would put me in a stroller and put their ice 78 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.439 skates on and they would just go zooming around the pond. And apparently I 79 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:53.360 was a little toddler and I would scream faster faster, and one time they 80 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:58.560 hit a rock and I went flying and fell on the ice and cracked my 81 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:03.879 head and they just like patched me up and never told my mother. And 82 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:10.199 look at you today, how about you. Do you have a head injury? 83 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:15.040 I don't think so, Which is one of the reasons I think you're 84 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:17.759 far more psychic than me, is because you know your mama station wagon and 85 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:25.879 let's get back to Leonora. Okay, it's just the thing you think about. 86 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:30.240 So Leonora falls and hits her head, which led to headaches and other 87 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.279 health issues, so her father in law encouraged her to see a healer. 88 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:39.480 The healer was a blind man who was also a medium, and when he 89 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:44.399 placed his hands on her head, she describes feeling faint and then losing consciousness. 90 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.879 Leonora said she was aware of a flood of light and saw strange faces 91 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:54.839 and a hand moving before her and what she says was an unconscious state. 92 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:58.800 She got up and walked to a table where she found pen and paper and 93 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:03.879 began to furiously right. She had written a message for another patient waiting in 94 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:08.920 the room from his deceased son. The man was a judge, which I 95 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:12.600 think is important because you know, we tend to trust the opinions and intellect 96 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:15.639 of a judge. He was so blown away by the event and the accurate 97 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:20.199 message from his son that he soon told everyone about Leonora, and before she 98 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:25.680 knew what hit her, she had a waiting list of clients. Wow. 99 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:30.800 Okay, so wait a minute, all right. So, so her dad 100 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.279 took her to see her father in law. Her father in law took her 101 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:39.639 to see a healer to try to figure out something to do about her pain 102 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:44.800 from her head injury. And the healer turned out to also be a medium, 103 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:48.920 and then when he touched her, she had this strange experience of seeing 104 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:54.680 a hand and lights and faces. And then she, in an unconscious state, 105 00:07:55.240 --> 00:07:59.920 sat down at the healer's desk and wrote a message to the next person 106 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:01.079 waiting in lane to see the hero. Yes, I got that right, 107 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:05.519 Yes, from his deceased son. Wow. I know it's a lot. 108 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.079 That's a I mean, I you know, I feel for her because you 109 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.120 know, she's just this stay at home mom with two kids trying to you 110 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:16.360 know, get through this these headaches, and Tata spirit wants to talk to 111 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:18.000 you. Okay, wait a minute. And she was born in eighteen fifty 112 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:22.279 nine, right, Yes, so seventy nine eighties, So this is the 113 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:26.199 late eighteen hundreds when this is happening, Yes, in the United States. 114 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:30.959 Yes, during the height of the spirituals movement. That's exactly where I was 115 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:33.120 going. Okay, good, It's good that you mentioned that, because I 116 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.600 did think about that, and I wondered maybe that helped her, maybe seeing 117 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.759 news stories about the Fox Sisters and you know, all the other mediums, 118 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.120 most I think who didn't proved were fraudulent, but at least she had some 119 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:52.480 information and knowledge of what was going on. Right. She describes this trans 120 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.279 state by saying, I feel as if something were passing over my brain, 121 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:03.159 making it numb, a sensation similar to that I experienced when I was etherized, 122 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:07.440 only the unpleasant odor of the ether is absent. I feel a little 123 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:11.279 cold, too, not very, just a little, as if a cold 124 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:16.759 breeze passed over me, and people and objects become smaller until they finally disappear. 125 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:20.679 Then I know nothing more until I wake up, when the first thing 126 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:24.080 I am conscious of is a bright, very very bright light, and then 127 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:28.879 darkness. Such darkness my hands and my arms begin to tingle, just as 128 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.600 one's foot tingles after it has been asleep, and I see, as if 129 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.759 from a great distance, objects and people in the room, but they are 130 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:39.960 very small and very black. Okay, So here's what I make of that. 131 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:46.159 Okay, when she had this accident, did she do something to her 132 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:50.360 occipital lobe to her eyesight? Yeah? You know, it made me think 133 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:56.200 about I was reading some other scholarly book for show research a couple of months 134 00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:01.759 ago, and they were comparing the brains of devout meditators like Buddhist monks and 135 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:07.080 nuns, for example, to people who were intuitive and psychic, and the 136 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:11.759 same areas of their brain lit up. I'm not surprised to get that. 137 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:16.879 Yeah, and so I wonder if you do kind of have to go into 138 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.759 that hazy, daisy blank state of mind to get to where she was. 139 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:24.480 Yeah. I don't know, but it seems like she did. Now. 140 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:31.600 What's interesting is so the blind medium healer who kind of awakened this in her, 141 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:37.480 he had a spirit guide who was a Frenchman named Jean Finwi Sclavel, 142 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.919 and he preferred to be called by his middle name Finwei. Finwee left the 143 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:50.000 blind Medium and decided to become Leonora's control or spirit guide. Now, back 144 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:54.759 in this day and age, when a lot of mediums did channeling and direct 145 00:10:54.840 --> 00:11:00.159 voice mediumship, they would call their guides a control and it did. It 146 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.919 does not mean that the guide is controlling them. It just means that often 147 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:07.279 the guide is kind of like a gatekeeper for the medium. And at this 148 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:15.320 time of spiritual development anyway, it appears as though these controls would speak through 149 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:18.840 the body of the medium. You don't see that as much today. I 150 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:24.200 feel like that died out with this new age of spiritualism around the Victorian times. 151 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.200 Do you agree with that? I do. I so remember being just 152 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:35.320 fascinated by Arthur Ford and his work and what he called his spirit guide or 153 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:41.440 his control was Fletcher. And in Ruth Montgomery's book Search for the Truth, 154 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:46.919 she writes extensively about Arthur Ford and his control Fletcher. And that's when I 155 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:50.879 first heard of it. But again it was those late eighteen hundreds early nineteen 156 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:54.080 hundreds era. And you know, I wonder when we talk about something like 157 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.799 this, are we looking at different trends in different ways in which the way 158 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:07.519 which we conceptualize our relationship to the spiritual world is a result of a shift 159 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:13.840 in our language as it's moved differently from where this was one hundred years ago. 160 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.000 I think it is. And you know, I listened to a luxury 161 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:22.879 with Tony Stockwell where he was saying that as our collective consciousness awakens and evolves 162 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:31.120 and matures and grows, we don't need the obvious displays of ectoplasm and you 163 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:35.039 know, booming voices coming through a petite woman. You know, we don't 164 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:39.840 need all of that because as a collective consciousness, we're understanding and accepting inch 165 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:43.559 by inch that this is real. And so he thinks that's why it's evolved 166 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.120 that way. I don't know. Fascinating, Yeah, it really is. 167 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:52.679 We should do a show on Arthur Ford. His book Nothing So Strange really 168 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.840 touched my heart because he was one of the best mediums out there. But 169 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:01.759 I don't know if you know, he also eventually was in a and he 170 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.799 writes so much about what a struggle it was to be a spiritual person, 171 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.440 to be a medium, and to struggle with alcoholism, and how this really 172 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:13.960 did take a lot from him energetically, and how he had to kind of 173 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:18.559 numb himself from dealing with the grief of connecting with you know, people dealing 174 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.679 with so much loss. It's a very honest memoir, and I also think 175 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.879 that there was some controversy towards the end of his life. But you're right 176 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:31.360 for folks who are interested, and I hope many of our listeners are, 177 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.080 because I love this stuff as do you. Looking back at the history and 178 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:43.240 the evolution of how psychic work and mediumship work has evolved is fascinating and that 179 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.360 somehow I thought we'd done an Arthur Ford's story. But if we have it, 180 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.200 yeah, let's do. I'm happy to work on that. I think 181 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.120 we definitely mentioned him, but I think he was part of I think he 182 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:56.039 was part of like several other mediums, So I think we glossed over him. 183 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.679 Well let's go back and take another look at it. Okay. So 184 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.320 FINNWII, the spirit guide, control, whatever you want to call him for 185 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:09.200 the blind medium healer moves over to Leonora. One sitter comes to see her. 186 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.960 His name was Richard rich He described how when Finn Wei would come into 187 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:20.720 the energy of Leonora, she would change, he writes, with little trouble, 188 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.960 she went into the trance, a state which was entirely new to my 189 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:31.080 experience, and after a moment's silence which followed her rather violent movements. I 190 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.799 was startled by the remarkable change in her voice, an exclamation, a sort 191 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:39.360 of grunt of satisfaction, as if the person had reached his destination and gave 192 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:45.799 vent to his pleasure. Thereat, by this sound uttered an unmistakably male voice, 193 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.120 rather husky. I was at once addressed in French with bonjour, monsieur 194 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:54.360 come, and vous porte vous, to which I gave answer in the same 195 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.000 language with which I happened to be perfectly familiar. My answer was responded to 196 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:05.039 with an inquiry grunt, and then the conversation continued in English. So that's 197 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:09.399 how he would kind of enter the room. As she continued to develop her 198 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:15.200 abilities, Finnwee left her years later, and a new spirit guy nicknamed GP, 199 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.159 came in. I'll talk more about him in a little bit. Leonora 200 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:24.799 always preferred automatic writing to communicating this way, though, before going into the 201 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:26.879 trance state, she would rest her head on a pillow placed on the table 202 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:31.519 in front of her, with her face towards the left, and writing material 203 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:35.720 was arranged on the right side, usually one hundred blank sheets and several pencils, 204 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:39.440 and once entranced, an assistant would place a sheet of paper in front 205 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.360 of her and put a pencil in her hand, quickly removing each sheet once 206 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.720 it was filled and replacing it with a fresh one. There's that stuff that 207 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:52.279 we're really always cautioning folks. Writing Automatic writing is a whole other thing, 208 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:56.600 and it's kind of tricky. Well so is this letting this frenchman come in 209 00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:00.919 your body? And I mean it's all tricky and I say no to all 210 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.279 of it personally, me too. But there you go. Thank you for 211 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:08.320 that, me too. Yeah. Where giving a history lesson here, folks? 212 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:15.440 Yeah, it's instructional, okay. Now. Before she became world renowned, 213 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:21.960 a Unitarian minister named doctor Minut Savage wrote a book in nineteen oh two 214 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:26.039 called Canned Telepathy Explain It, in which he described several sittings he had with 215 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:32.559 Leonora Piper. He writes about how his father came through and identified Savage by 216 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:36.320 the childhood nickname that only his dad used for him. Then he writes how 217 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:40.679 Leonora said to him, there is somebody else here beside your father. It's 218 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:44.279 your brother, no, your half brother, And he says his name is 219 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:48.720 John. And she went on to describe to doctor Savage how the brother died 220 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:53.080 before passing on messages. On another occasion, doctor Savage sent a friend to 221 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:59.360 see Leonora with three locks of hair. Each were belonging to different people, 222 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:02.879 and he had no way of knowing who the locks of hair belonged to, 223 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.880 nor whether they belonged to living or dead people. But as she held each 224 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.119 lock of hair in her hand one at a time, she was able to 225 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:17.599 identify the name of the hair's owner and correctly state whether they were alive or 226 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:21.640 dead. That's pretty amazing. WHOA, there's some psychometry, is it not. 227 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.519 Yeah. On another visit to see her, doctor Savage was told that 228 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:29.559 his son, who had died three years earlier, was present. He said, 229 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:32.559 Papa, I want you to go at once to my room. Look 230 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.720 in my drawer, and you will find a lot of loose papers. Among 231 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.200 them are some which I would like you to take and destroy at once. 232 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:42.920 Doctor Savage never identified what was in those papers, other than that they were 233 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:48.079 exactly where Leonora said they would be, and did indeed hold very private information. 234 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:52.920 He wrote in his book there were things there which he had jotted down 235 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:56.759 and trusted to the privacy of his drawer. Which he would not have made 236 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:00.880 public for the world. Don't you want to know what was in those papers? 237 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:03.200 Now? Well? I do. I mean, you know, my 238 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.319 mind went all over the place with that. But you know, Samantha, 239 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:14.960 as you're talking about Leonora and her abilities and the folks who are basically testing 240 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:19.200 her and trying to see what she's all about, what a time that must 241 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:23.079 have been. And you and I both know that there had to have been 242 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:27.160 times when she was off her gate, that she was not always right, 243 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:32.039 and I wonder what that was like for her. I'm really glad you mentioned 244 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:37.119 that it's actually very very well verified. Oh good, And I'll talk about 245 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:40.519 that in a little bit. But she had a lot of misses, she 246 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:44.400 had a lot of hits, she had a lot of criticism, and I 247 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:47.960 think that kind of goes hand in hand with this whole world. And I 248 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:52.680 think that's why you and I are so passionate about teaching and fostering community, 249 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:57.000 because that is the hard part of being psychic medium intuitive is there are going 250 00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:03.079 to be some misses. And Finn Wei, her guide control whatever you want 251 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:07.240 to call them, he got stuff wrong and he would say things like, 252 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:11.079 there's a j name around you a jewel. Julia is Julia like and so 253 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.880 a lot of skeptics would say that she was fishing, right, her guide 254 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:21.279 was fishing. Now, by this time, she was gaining a popularity and 255 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:26.359 earning about twenty dollars per sitting, which would be about five hundred dollars today. 256 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.160 Wow. Yeah, so there's nothing even though so much was recorded about 257 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:34.160 her. I want to know, like what is her husband saying. Is 258 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.359 he like, is he coming home from his day at the grocery store? 259 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.160 Like, Leonora, do you have twenty people sitting around our dining room table? 260 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:44.680 Again, I'm hungry? Did you make the meatballs? And then if 261 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.039 she's saying, well, honey, every person there is paying me five hundred 262 00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:49.680 dollars, is he like, well, rock on, keep talking to spirit. 263 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:53.880 I want to know, like what was going on in their family, 264 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.000 her kids, her two daughters were pretty young right now, where are they 265 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:02.839 doing their homework? I don't know the answers to these questions. I want 266 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:06.279 to know these personal things. I want to know did she feel weird about 267 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:08.680 a lot of money to charge? I could never charge that. No, 268 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.799 I mean, I'm not passing any judgment. That's my own issue. But 269 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.839 I want to know it. Did she feel weird about charging that much money? 270 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.920 I don't know. She was in Connecticut, is that am I remember? 271 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:23.519 Boston? Boston? Okay, so probably she had access to clientelese who 272 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.720 could afford that kind of money. Yeah, that's true. I don't know. 273 00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:33.160 All right, I want to talk about her introduction to Professor William James 274 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:38.119 of Harvard, who really is the one who credits at least himself with discovering 275 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:42.000 Leonora. But let's take a quick break and we will be right back. 276 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:49.559 If you're enjoying this look at the psychic life of Leonora Piper, check out 277 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:53.240 my newsletter this month, which has a bit of a religious tone to it. 278 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:57.680 I read a scholarly article that looks at the bible stark rules against talking 279 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.119 to the dead, and a whole light that I found fascinating and hope you 280 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:04.680 will too. When you go to Samantha Fay dot com, you can click 281 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:08.759 the newsletter tab on the top right corner of my homepage. You'll also see 282 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:12.279 the store tab, where you'll find links to my e courses on intuition, 283 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:17.480 psychic protection, crystals, and more. Plus I offer a selection of guided 284 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:21.599 meditations and crystal bracelets. It's a great way to strengthen your connection to spirit 285 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.960 and help support our podcast. Another wonderful avenue for supporting the show is leaving 286 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:29.119 us a review on iTunes or tell a friend to give us a listen. 287 00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:37.799 That's Samantha Fay dot com. Thanks so much, So let's talk about this. 288 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:42.240 William James. He was an early member of the Society for Psychical Research 289 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:48.240 and helped found the American version called the ASPR. But before he met missus 290 00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:52.640 Leonora Piper, doctor James was a true skeptic. At the time, he 291 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:59.200 was considered one of the world's greatest psychologists. He taught physiology and philosophy and 292 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:03.480 is known as the father of pragmatism. In the fall of eighteen eighty five, 293 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.279 his mother in law and sister in law visited Leonora Piper and were blown 294 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:12.319 away by her accuracy. They insisted he go see her for himself, so 295 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:17.920 eventually he and his wife made an appointment and attended a sitting doctor. James 296 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:21.839 was so impressed with what he saw that he committed several years of his life 297 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:26.839 to working exclusively with Leonora, and what is now considered the longest, best 298 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:32.720 research and most evidential chapter in the study of survival after death. Together, 299 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:37.519 along with doctor Richard Hodgen and Professor James Hislop, they investigated and tested Leonora 300 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:42.640 for thirty years. Wow, thirty years thirty years yeah, and wait to 301 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:47.440 hear how they tested her because it was not fun. They took control of 302 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:51.200 almost every aspect of her life. They had her followed by private detectives. 303 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:55.960 They examined and set up the seance room before every sitting. They monitored her 304 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.960 mail and sent people to her under assumed names. They also took her to 305 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.240 England, where she met Sir Oliver Lodge, who was a professor of physics 306 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.680 and mathematics and a fellow of the Royal Society. He was also a devout 307 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:12.200 skeptic until he met Leonora Piper, but he became such a believer that he 308 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:17.519 wrote books on it, including the well known Raymond Life and Death, about 309 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:22.160 communications with his deceased son and the immortality of the soul. Sir Oliver Lodge 310 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:27.680 was such a skeptic that he even outlined several ways Leonora could be cheating. 311 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:33.680 He thought she could be using private detectives to gather information on sitters, or 312 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.359 questioning servants or children of the people. Who came to see her. He 313 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:44.559 wondered if she was researching family diaries and looking through photograph albums, or if 314 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:48.720 she was consulting directories and biographies. Possibly when she went to the homes of 315 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:53.519 these people, was she searching their house at night and picking locks to gain 316 00:23:53.559 --> 00:24:02.200 access to information, or could she be bribing servants to identify a deb Let's 317 00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:04.279 discuss this for a minute, because you and I have worked as psychics and 318 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:08.519 mediums, and I just want to say, there is no eff and time 319 00:24:08.720 --> 00:24:15.440 in anyone's day to do all of this. Uh, Samantha, you know 320 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:19.039 no, I just know. I guess what I have to say about that 321 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.119 is you're right, there's not enough time to do it, and who would 322 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:32.839 want to? Why why would you spend your time doing that? Rather than 323 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:37.519 if you're legitimate, then you do trust what comes and if you're if you're 324 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:41.480 interpreting it the information correctly, great, If you're missing it, that's the 325 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:45.400 way it goes too. That's all I know to say about my take on 326 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.559 that. Well, she's a mother in the Victorian era, so you're telling 327 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:52.640 me that she's going to cook three meals a day, She's going to do 328 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.599 the laundry. She's going to schedule their dental visits and you know, take 329 00:24:56.599 --> 00:25:03.519 them to their I don't know, singing and dance lessons and I don't understand. 330 00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:08.359 And then at night she's going to put on what a black Victorian dress 331 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.839 and like a cat burglar, sneak into the homes of the sitters coming to 332 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:18.279 her house the next day and hold a what do they have? Flashlights back 333 00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:23.640 them and her tea that she flips through the family bible and albums right exactly, 334 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:27.920 and then slip back into her house just in time to stir up the 335 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:30.880 bacon and eggs for the family breakfast. Come on us, Sir Oliver, 336 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.880 I don't think so. So to make sure this wasn't happening, he and 337 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.599 his American group of researchers did the following. They read through all her mail. 338 00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:45.640 They forbade any servants from talking to her. In fact, when she 339 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:51.240 came to England, several of the people's homes that she visited would temporarily fire 340 00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:57.200 their servants and hire all new servants just to prevent her from asking servants information 341 00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:03.640 about them. Wow. They would search through her luggage for Directori's biographies and 342 00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.119 notes, none where ever found. They used fake names and sometimes even had 343 00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.599 sitters disguised themselves, like by adding beards or things so they wouldn't look at 344 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:17.279 all like they normally did. And they also made sure they watched their conversations 345 00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:22.759 carefully around her so she couldn't accidentally pick up information. Before she came to 346 00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:26.359 visit him for the first time. At his home in England, he made 347 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:32.039 sure to remove all photos, family albums, even the family bible. Lodge 348 00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:37.559 later wrote mister Hodgen also had mister and Missus Piper watched or shadowed by private 349 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.960 detectives for some weeks, with the view of discovering whether mister Piper, who 350 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:47.039 was employed in a large store in Boston, went about inquiring into the affairs 351 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:52.480 of possible sitters, or whether Missus Piper received letters from friends or agents conveying 352 00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:56.720 information. This inquiry was pushed pretty closely, but absolutely nothing was discovered which 353 00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.559 could throw suspicion on Missus Piper, who was now aware of the procedure, 354 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.680 but has the good sense to recognize the legitimacy, I may say, the 355 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:10.839 scientific necessity of this kind of probation. It was thus shown that Missus Piper 356 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.039 made no discoverable attempt to acquire knowledge, even about persons whose coming she had 357 00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:19.720 reason to expect. Still less could she have been aware of the private concerns 358 00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:26.319 of persons brought anonymously to her home. At mister Hodgen's choice, he summarized 359 00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:32.400 by saying her behavior appeared utterly beyond and above suspicion. Well, that's some 360 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:36.359 research for you, isn't it. I know the poor mister Piper's even followed 361 00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:38.920 as he's walked in the aisles of his grocery store. On one occasion, 362 00:27:38.920 --> 00:27:44.039 when Leonora was doing readings at her home back in the US, she conveyed 363 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:48.039 a message for Sir Oliver Lodge, who was in England at the time. 364 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:52.160 The message was from Frederick Myers, and we've talked about him on the show, 365 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:55.720 but it's been a while. He was the founder for the Society for 366 00:27:55.759 --> 00:28:00.519 Psychical Research. The message said Myers said, as you take the part of 367 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:07.440 the poet, and he will act as fawness. Leonora had no clue what 368 00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:11.400 the message meant, but since she knew Meyers had been a dear friend of 369 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.640 Sir Lodge's, she had the message mailed to him. When he received it 370 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.400 in England, He too was baffled. He knew Meyers had been a Greek 371 00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:22.440 and Roman scholar, so he asked some friends who were familiar with the classics 372 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:26.119 if they could interpret the message. A friend told Lodge that the message was 373 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:33.759 a reference to a passage by Horace and that it apparently suggested Sir Oliver Lodge 374 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:38.160 was about to receive some incredibly bad news, and that Meyer's message was saying 375 00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:42.559 he was going to try and help soften the blow for his old friend. 376 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:48.000 Unfortunately, a few weeks later, Sir Oliver Lodge learned that his youngest son, 377 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:52.279 Raymond, who was a second Lieutenant in the third South Lancashire, had 378 00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:59.279 been killed during an assault in Flanders. Lodge's devastated wife went to see another 379 00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:03.440 medium in England. Just a few weeks after her son's death. He came 380 00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.440 through this other medium and told her to tell his dad that he was with 381 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:11.799 a friend of his named Myers. So this was really really big for Lodge. 382 00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:15.599 And I know it's a kind of a complicated message to share orly, 383 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:18.359 you know, over the internet. This way we're not in person or in 384 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.920 video, so you can't like see the message. But it's a very complicated 385 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.440 message, Meyers says, you take the part of the poet, he will 386 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:30.319 act as fondest. I think this is such a perfect example of how spirit 387 00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:33.680 works, because this was so Myers. He was, you know, such 388 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.279 a scholar and would say something like that. But Lodge was such an over 389 00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:41.000 analytical thinker that to be given a complicated message that he would have to, 390 00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:47.559 you know, go see friends about and interpret and really meditate on is really 391 00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:51.880 important because one of the things that always lodged a seed of doubt in his 392 00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:55.960 head was telepathy. You know, is she just reading my mind or the 393 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.680 mind of the sitter? Clearly you could rule telepithy out here because Leonora has 394 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.680 no idea what the message means. Sir Oliver Lodge has no idea what the 395 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.559 message means. None of them knew. You know, he had several children, 396 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:11.160 many of whom were fighting in the war, So how could she know 397 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.359 it would be his youngest son, you know, no way, no way. 398 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.960 It was during this time of grieving that Sir Oliver Lodge met Leonora in 399 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:25.039 person for the first time. Raymond came through once again, saying he was 400 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:29.279 with Frederick Myers, adding I feel that I have two fathers now again, 401 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:33.759 this is how Myers was going to soften the blow for him by welcoming his 402 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:38.240 son and being a father figure to him on the other side. Still grieving, 403 00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:42.160 Lady Lodge went to see yet another medium in England, a man named 404 00:30:42.200 --> 00:30:47.519 Alfred Valt Peters, who also brought through their son Raymond. This time he 405 00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:51.640 mentioned a photograph they would soon receive of him that was taken with his fellow 406 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:55.880 soldiers and in the sitting. Raymond told his mom that in the photo he 407 00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:59.440 was sitting on the ground and a fellow soldier was behind him leaning on his 408 00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:03.839 shoulder. Two months later, the exact photo Raymond had described from the other 409 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.480 side arrived. Wow, I know, it's just beautiful. And all of 410 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:11.599 that is in Sir Oliver Lodge's book Raymond, all those examples and stories and 411 00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:15.559 messages he had from his son. It's really a phenomenal book if you can 412 00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:21.119 get through the lofty, intelligent language. They definitely wrote and spoke differently then 413 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:25.200 it was much much more purty than we speak now. Tell me about it. 414 00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:29.119 I've been reading this past week while I was on that writer's in residency 415 00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:33.640 program. What I read for light reading in the evening was Mary Shelley S. 416 00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:37.839 Frankenstein. Oh yeah, see, and she was eighteen when she wrote 417 00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:41.240 that. Yeah, and it was written in the early I mean early eighteen 418 00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:45.799 hundreds. Yeah, you know. Yeah, So anyway, I diagretic. 419 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:51.079 Go ahead. So information like this greatly impressed Professor Hodgen, who taught legal 420 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:55.920 studies at Cambridge University. He too began as a skeptic and traveled to America 421 00:31:56.359 --> 00:32:00.200 just to prove to the world that Leonora Piper was a fraud, which she 422 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:05.240 had done with many other self described mediums. He spent sixteen years studying, 423 00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:09.319 examining, and researching Leonora Piper's work and could not disprove her work, not 424 00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:15.400 once. He wrote, I cannot profess to have any doubt but that the 425 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:21.000 chief communicators are veritably the personalities they claim to be, that they have survived 426 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:24.559 what we call death, and that they directly communicated with us whom we call 427 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:30.400 the living, through missus Piper's entranced organism. So that's quite a statement. 428 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:36.759 This guy was kind of like the scholarly intellectual version of Harry Houdini. He 429 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:39.720 was on a mission to disprove all these mediums, and she was the one 430 00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:45.000 that he could never ever disprove. One of the things all these men wanted 431 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:50.240 to prove was that no telepathy was involved. Many debunkers would say, all 432 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.279 right, maybe she's psychic, but this doesn't prove survival of death. She's 433 00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:59.880 just reading their minds. However, several of the research done with Leonora disproved 434 00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:04.079 the possibility, lending further credibility to the belief that, yes, we do 435 00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:08.279 survive death. One story that's often mentioned in conjunction with Leonora Piper is called 436 00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:13.680 the case of Uncle Jerry's Watch. Miles Allen writes about this, saying that 437 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:19.279 in eighteen eighty nine, Sir Oliver Lodge devised an experiment involving one of his 438 00:33:19.400 --> 00:33:23.119 uncles. Allan writes Lodge had several uncles, at least two of whom were 439 00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:27.839 still living, although very elderly, at the time of this test. One 440 00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:30.319 of these uncles, whose name was Robert, had been very close to his 441 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:35.839 twin brother Jerry, who had died some twenty years earlier. Oliver wrote to 442 00:33:35.960 --> 00:33:39.960 Robert asking for some object that had belonged to his twin, and Robert responded 443 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.319 by sending a gold watch that Jerry had been fond of. Lodge told no 444 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:47.799 one of the watch, and within a few hours of its receipt he handed 445 00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:52.440 it to the entranced Piper. Lodge later wrote about the event, I was 446 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.480 told almost immediately that it had belonged to one of my uncles, one that 447 00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:00.440 had been very fond of my uncle Robert, and that the watch was now 448 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:05.519 in possession of this same uncle, Robert, with whom its late owner was 449 00:34:05.559 --> 00:34:09.519 anxious to communicate. After some difficulty and many wrong attempts, finn wee, 450 00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:16.039 remember that's Piper's guide caught the name Jerry short for Jeremiah, who said, 451 00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:19.760 this is my watch, and Robert is my brother, and I am here, 452 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:23.480 Uncle Jerry my watch. So then Oliver Lodge asks his uncle to give 453 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:29.800 some details from his childhood. Through Leonora Piper, Lodge writes that his uncle 454 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:34.960 recounted almost drowning in a creek, killing a cat in Smith's field, owning 455 00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:38.320 a small rifle and a snake skin. Lodge said he didn't know anything about 456 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:43.280 these childhood memories of his uncles, so he spoke with his uncle Robert, 457 00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:47.480 who said, okay, yep. Uncle Robert recollected something about swimming in the 458 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:52.880 creek, but not a whole lot. He had a distinct recollection of having 459 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:55.039 had the snake skin and still remembered the box in which it was kept, 460 00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:00.239 But he altogether denied killing the cat and could not even recall Smith's Field. 461 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:04.840 Now. His uncle said his memory was failing him in his old age, 462 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:07.760 so he promised to reach out to yet another uncle, a man named Frank. 463 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:13.239 Uncle Frank replied saying that yeah, they had all played at Smith's Field, 464 00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:15.400 which was near their home in Barking, Essex, and that another of 465 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:20.480 their brothers had killed a cat there, and he remembered what he called a 466 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:25.239 fool hearty episode where Jerry had almost drowned while swimming in the creek. They 467 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:30.519 agreed this was not telepathy because none of the people involved knew what poor Uncle 468 00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:36.480 Robert was trying to convey. Hotchin also agreed that she wasn't using telepathy because 469 00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:39.159 she knew things that would happen to him that he either wasn't thinking about or 470 00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:43.679 didn't know what happened. For example, she told him that his sister in 471 00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:46.679 Australia would soon give birth to a fourth child and it would be a boy. 472 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:52.000 This proved true, and Hotchins didn't even know his sister was pregnant at 473 00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:55.480 the time. I think that's interesting deb because for the longest time I used 474 00:35:55.480 --> 00:36:00.400 to wonder, when I was doing mediumship, am I talking to the dead 475 00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:02.280 or am I using telepathy? Do you remember that little debate you and I 476 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:07.400 used to have. I do, And I used to say, well, 477 00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:10.679 I don't know, like how you know, because sometimes the deceased no things 478 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:16.360 that are happening that the sitter can't possibly know. But then when I researched 479 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:20.920 the collective unconscious, I was like, oh my gosh, like it could 480 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:24.239 be coming from there. I don't know. And I remember people saying to 481 00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:28.840 me, well, okay, Smitha, if you are doing telepathy, that's 482 00:36:28.840 --> 00:36:30.480 pretty still damn amazing, so calm down. And I was like, yeah, 483 00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:32.880 you're right, I should just come down. But I didn't think about 484 00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:37.719 it this way that these men were trying so hard not to prove that Leonora 485 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:44.719 Piper was legit. They were trying to utilize her to prove that we do 486 00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:51.360 survive death. And that's why negating the option of telepathy was so important to 487 00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:58.800 them, right, And that's really the primary focus of all those psychical research 488 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:02.719 organizations that popped up in England and France. And the United States and so 489 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:07.679 forth at the end of the eighteen hundreds, was that was the real question? 490 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:12.400 Remember, that's one of the reasons that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was so 491 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:17.159 connected with that movement was because he had lost a son. Yes, able 492 00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:22.559 to stay in touch with him. Yes, exactly now. Hodgen then persuaded 493 00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:27.559 another skeptical friend to see Leonora Piper. He was an artist named Jay Rogers 494 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.400 Rich, and he wrote an account of his sittings with Leonora and said, 495 00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:35.559 of his first meeting with her, my profession of painting was described, and 496 00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:39.679 my particular talents and mannerisms and design were mentioned, and my mother was clearly 497 00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:45.000 described. She was beside me, dressed as in her portrait I painted a 498 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.880 year or two before her death, and wearing a certain cameo pin. The 499 00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:52.400 portrait of my father. Two living aunts who are very dear to me, 500 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:55.480 my brother and his wife Nellie, were well described, and in such a 501 00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:00.719 way as to have made it impossible for missus Piper to have so minutely informed 502 00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:06.440 herself about them. And another sitting, Rich was told that he would soon 503 00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:09.920 hear from an old friend, Frank Lennox. When Rich asked if Frank was 504 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:15.519 still in California. Her guide Finwy, who was talking through her, struggled 505 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:21.159 with the answer, saying he had gone across the water to al all Allah. 506 00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:24.840 How you say that? How you call that? Rich suggested Australia, 507 00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:30.079 to which finnwe paused and then said, yes, Australia. Rich later learned 508 00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:36.559 that Frank had gone to Alaska. So that's an example of how skeptics would 509 00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:42.519 say she was fishing right because she would get the al the Allah, but 510 00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:45.199 you know, and then someone would say, do you mean Australia. Yes, 511 00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:50.199 and I get that that. I mean that happens to me too, 512 00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:54.760 Like you'll get a ja and you don't know if it's Julia, Jamelia. 513 00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:59.519 It's it can be really tricky to get those names. I don't know why 514 00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:04.199 that is, but it's I think one of the reasons that it happens is 515 00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:07.760 because you want to do a really good job and you're trying to figure out 516 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:15.880 if you're picking up the information correctly with the little information you're giving right. 517 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:20.440 But other times she would get first and last nings without any prompting or product. 518 00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:24.559 You know, mediums are people too, that's right. Good days three 519 00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:29.280 week days weibreak, and when we come back, we're going to talk about 520 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:32.519 how she switched to a new spirit guide and what the end of her life 521 00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:40.480 looked like. Folks, let me just remind you that it's not too late 522 00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:46.639 to join my new self paced to Row course called The Fool's Journey. This 523 00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:52.440 course helps you to understand your own life journey through the symbols, myths, 524 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:57.360 cultures, and beliefs of traditional to row. Each week, for thirty eight 525 00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:00.679 weeks, you get an in depth lesson of about the cards as we make 526 00:40:00.760 --> 00:40:06.800 our way from the Fool through to the minor archonic keys. So lots of 527 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:10.679 details and information on my website, deb Bowen dot com. And also I 528 00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:16.559 hope you'll subscribe to my free newsletter which is packed full of interesting information and 529 00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:28.400 upcoming events. And again that's Deb Bowen dot com. Welcome back. Now 530 00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:31.800 we're discussing Leonora Piper, who had been working with this kind of gruff Frenchman 531 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:37.280 guide named Finnwee, but halfway through her work as a medium, her main 532 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:42.639 guide or control switched to a man named George Pellew. Now this is really 533 00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:47.480 interesting because he was known to all the men researching Leonora before his death. 534 00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.280 He was a writer living in Boston who had befriended Hodgson. He studied at 535 00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:58.039 Harvard before working as a lawyer and journalist. Pellew was an atheist who told 536 00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:01.480 Hodgson that he could not and see of an afterlife, but that if he 537 00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:07.400 died before Hodgson and found himself still existing, he would attempt to let Hodgson 538 00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:10.800 know. Unfortunately, when he was just thirty two years old, he fell 539 00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:15.840 down a flight of concrete stairs and died a month later. Hodgson brought one 540 00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:22.119 of Pelly's friends, a man named John Hart, to sit anonymously before Leonora 541 00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:27.280 Piper. Leonora was able to not only state John's correct first and last name, 542 00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:31.280 but also identified him as George Pelhew's friend. She even said that the 543 00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:36.960 cufflings he was wearing had belonged to George and were given to heart by George's 544 00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:42.079 parents, which was all true. He even recounted through Leonora a full discussion 545 00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:46.039 he'd had before his death about life, space, and eternity with their mutual 546 00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:51.760 friend's daughter. It was at this point that Finwee left as her guide and 547 00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:55.599 George stepped in. This also marked the moment that she began relying more on 548 00:41:55.639 --> 00:42:00.119 automatic writing as her means of communicating, because which said it would allow more 549 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:06.480 spirits to come through her to the sitters now Michael tim in an article he 550 00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:10.920 wrote for the PSI Encyclopedias's During the course of eighteen ninety five, the quality 551 00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:16.480 of communications began to deteriorate, with a growing number of intrusions, apparently caused 552 00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:22.280 by earth bound spirits. By this time, GP, George Pellew, and 553 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:29.320 Finwi had been giving way to Rector, a group of controls who purported to 554 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:35.760 be advanced spirits long departed from the earth plane. Rector told Hodgson that Piper's 555 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:40.679 organism was weakening and needed a rest. Finnwei made his last appearance in January 556 00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:45.800 eighteen ninety six, but GP remained as an assistant to Rector until nineteen eight 557 00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:52.320 oh four. So this group of guides calling themselves Rector kind of like Abraham 558 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:58.159 as a guide of guides who speaks through esther Hicks. So Rector was described 559 00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:02.840 by William James as sounding like an aged and when he is speaking instead of 560 00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:07.719 writing, like a somewhat hollow voiced clergyman, a little weary of his experience 561 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:13.599 of the world. Endlessly patient and sympathetic and desiring to put all his tenderness 562 00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:16.480 and wisdom at your service while you were there. So from everything I've read 563 00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:22.920 about this group that came through to speak through her, they were super religious 564 00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:27.159 and kind of preachy, and no one was very impressed, and she did 565 00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:31.320 have many non believers. Physiologist Ivor Lloyd Tuckett wrote that her mediumship could be 566 00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:37.440 explained by muscle reading, fishing, guessing, hints obtained in the sitting, 567 00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:42.960 knowledge surreptitiously obtained, knowledge acquired in the interval between sittings, and lastly, 568 00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:49.920 facts already within missus Piper's knowledge. Psychologist G. Stanley Hall and Amy Tanner 569 00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:53.159 believed that Piper was neither a fraud nor a medium, but rather a woman 570 00:43:53.199 --> 00:44:01.159 with buried personalities whoa yeah. Even today, skeptics remained unconvinced about Leonora Piper's 571 00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:07.599 work, stating the following laundry list as evidence of her fraudulents. Piper's physical 572 00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:13.440 contact with sitters, such as holding their hands, enabled feedback by a process 573 00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:19.159 used by stage performers called muscle reading. Suspicions about Finnwee, who claimed to 574 00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:22.519 have lived as a doctor in the nineteenth century in Marseilles, when no records 575 00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:27.800 could be found of him, and he also gave little evidence of knowing anything 576 00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.280 about French or medicine, which I know we can kind of debate that because 577 00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:34.960 we already have evidence of him speaking quite a bit in French. But whatever 578 00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.679 blatant fishing for information by Finwe and his habit of passing off details given is 579 00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:45.519 coming from him. Implausible claims by some communicators to be the spirits of famous 580 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:52.840 people like Walter Scott and Julius Caesar, and even characters in novels. Failed 581 00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:55.679 seances in which names, dates, and incidents were given, of which almost 582 00:44:55.719 --> 00:45:01.880 none were correct. Instances that might be blamed by Piper having deliberately gathered information 583 00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:09.119 beforehand, or by cryptomnesia. A speculation by skeptical sitters that Piper's trance was 584 00:45:09.159 --> 00:45:14.880 a pretense. The Dean Connor case, in which details given by Piper about 585 00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:19.599 a young American missing in Mexico proved to be wrong. The skeptical Hall Tanner 586 00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:23.119 investigation, in which among other things, a non existent relative was recognized by 587 00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:27.480 Piper. That's an interesting one. We don't have time to go into it. 588 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:32.000 But a group of people investigated her kind of like with the ghost Philip 589 00:45:32.079 --> 00:45:36.079 we talked about on the show a couple of years ago. They made up 590 00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:39.880 somebody and asked her to connect with that person, and she did and got 591 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:45.880 all the details of the made up person. And I get why skeptics are 592 00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:49.239 pointing that out, but it also makes me wonder, if you look again 593 00:45:49.239 --> 00:45:52.920 at the collective unconscious, what was she tapping into well, you know exactly, 594 00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:55.960 And I want to go back. I mean, I'm not necessarily defending 595 00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:00.920 her, because again I think I think things change in people's lives, and 596 00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:06.840 certainly they may have in hers. But when you were talking a minute ago 597 00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:12.960 about characters and novels, well, those folks are as real to me as 598 00:46:13.000 --> 00:46:16.119 you are. Sometimes. Well and there's that famous book written about five years 599 00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:23.039 ago on Gregor's which really does help prove that, you know, you can 600 00:46:23.079 --> 00:46:30.800 actually manifest some reality into these things if everybody collectively is thinking talking about them. 601 00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:37.000 It's called the tulpa. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I just 602 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:43.679 would invite us to think about this relative. Well, he existed in somebody's 603 00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:50.159 imagination. She existed in somebody's imagination, with the notion that there was a 604 00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:53.159 reality concept around him. I don't know, you know, just something to 605 00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:57.159 think about. Well, and I think, like you said too, mediums 606 00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:01.320 have good days and bad days. And it sounds as though she was hounded 607 00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:07.119 and scrutinized in that the pressure of that must have been overwhelming as she got 608 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:15.480 tired. Yeah, and life changed. Her supporters countered with the many documented 609 00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:20.559 sightings when Piper gave names, both family names and surnames and nicknames, and 610 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:24.800 accurate details about people and incidents with no prompting or fishing. When her health 611 00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:29.760 began failing again in nineteen eleven, her guides announced that they were suspending her 612 00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:34.559 mediumship. She did a few more sessions of automatic writing, but was mostly 613 00:47:34.599 --> 00:47:38.719 done with mediumship. Bill Lombardi writes this said epitaph about the end of her 614 00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:43.840 life. It was in the mid nineteen twenties that Piper gave a series of 615 00:47:43.880 --> 00:47:47.400 sittings and announced these would be her last. With her two daughters, she 616 00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:52.039 left for parts unknown, out of the spotlight. She was soon forgotten by 617 00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:55.760 the press. And this is where her trail ended. Wait, she left 618 00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:59.519 with her husband. She left her husband. No, he had already died 619 00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:01.119 at this point. Oh, okay, all right, men, Back then 620 00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:05.960 they did not live long, Okay. I think the average age in nineteen 621 00:48:06.039 --> 00:48:09.960 hundred for a man was forty two. Can you imagine anyway? He writes, 622 00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:15.480 I discovered in my research that Leonora and her two daughters had moved into 623 00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:19.320 an apartment house at fifty four Dwight Street and Brookline, mass This is where 624 00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:23.599 she died in obscurity in nineteen fifty at the age of ninety one. She 625 00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:28.800 was cremated at the Mount Auburn Cemetery in Cambridge, and her ashes were buried 626 00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:32.840 with her husband at Mount Pleasant Cemetery in Arlington. At that time, there 627 00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:37.920 were no obituaries in any of the national or local newspapers announcing her passing. 628 00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:44.719 Leonora had finally achieved what she wanted. The world had forgotten her. I 629 00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:47.039 mean, isn't that pretty sad? So she gave her last readings in the 630 00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:52.000 nineteen twenties and didn't do any readings for the last thirty years of her life. 631 00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:55.559 What did she do? I know, I don't know. Made me 632 00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:59.199 sad. I tried to do a little bit more research as well, and 633 00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:04.199 it just didn't look very good at the end. And you know, she 634 00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:06.800 lived with her daughters. They never married or had kids, they stayed with 635 00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:09.360 her, and then they lived alone until they died. Well, look, 636 00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:14.000 for all I know, they lived in this lovely apartment and played Monopoly and 637 00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:16.400 scrabble, and I don't know, watched old movies on TV and had a 638 00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:22.599 grand all time. Maybe she was just exhausted from being examined and poked and 639 00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:25.320 brought at all those years. I don't know. It makes you feel very 640 00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:30.039 sad for her in many ways, doesn't it. Yeah, she's almost like 641 00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:35.119 a zoo animal on display. It makes me sad for how the world has 642 00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:39.000 always treated those of us on the fringe, those of us who are brave 643 00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:43.239 enough to say, Hey, something kind of weird is happening to me, 644 00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:47.360 and it doesn't fit in any paradigm or religious outline, but I'm going to 645 00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:52.119 step into my light and truth and talk about it. I think we've always 646 00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:57.840 been judged and critiqued and criticized and scorned. Yes, and part of that 647 00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:02.280 comes from the fact that indeed there are Charlatan's and people who are not ethical 648 00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:07.800 in all those things. I mean, unfortunately that's true in any perfection. 649 00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.559 We just seem somehow to get more scrutiny about it, I think than others 650 00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:15.960 sometimes well. And because it's such an unregulated field, there's no degree you 651 00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:21.199 have to possess or earn, there's no exam you have to pass, there's 652 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.840 you can anyone can claim this. And so I think you are going to 653 00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:30.039 have way more frauds in this in this field than the average field. But 654 00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:37.840 you know that doesn't negate the amount of ethical people out there like us that 655 00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:45.360 are doing the work. A one good thing is she's most associated with a 656 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:50.119 quote that William James, who we talked about before, said about her. 657 00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:53.400 He said, if you wish to upset the law that all crows are black, 658 00:50:54.039 --> 00:51:00.159 it is enough if you prove one single crow to be white. My 659 00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:05.840 white crow is Missus Piper. Yeah, And that's if you google her, 660 00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:09.199 it's almost always the first thing that will come up. And so you have 661 00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:15.199 to look at the work her life did to take all these men who were 662 00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:21.079 skeptical, and most of them were atheistic or agnostic at best, and she 663 00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:23.559 made them believe. She made them believe that their loved ones still lived. 664 00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:30.360 She helped them expand their viewpoint, their heart, their their paradigm, and 665 00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:39.079 allow for greater questioning and possibility. So that I think when they died, 666 00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:43.760 it was an easier transition because they knew what awaited them on the other side. 667 00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:49.000 I look at what she did and how comforting and helpful much of her 668 00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:52.440 work was to the people who came to see her, and I think sometimes 669 00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:59.440 that's so much of what people need. They need that comfort and that assurance 670 00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:05.360 that perhaps what they believe or hope for in the afterlife is in fact true. 671 00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:08.239 I think it's, you know, to kind of flip that one Crow 672 00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:13.079 quote on its head a little bit. I got a card in the mail 673 00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:16.159 just last night. I was checking my mail from someone thanking me for a 674 00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:22.519 reading that had changed her life. And you have those brief, beautiful moments 675 00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:24.239 like that, and you think, gosh, if I just helped one person, 676 00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:29.679 you know, that's really all that. If you just have one person 677 00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:34.400 with this work, that's everything. But I still can't help feeling sad about 678 00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:37.400 the end of her life. Deb me too. I had no idea that 679 00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:43.679 she had lived in obscurity for more than thirty years after and I'm sure it's 680 00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:46.199 what she wanted, because you know, by all accounts that's what she wanted, 681 00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:49.440 was to be forgotten and left alone, which I get. I mean 682 00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:54.400 if you've got private detectives following you and these hoity toity Harvard and Oxford grads 683 00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:58.840 going through your mail, and you know, that would drive me insane. 684 00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:04.760 But I also wonder if what her spirit guides were saying was true as well, 685 00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:09.719 that she what her organism was exhausted. Oh, I think that's really 686 00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:15.880 true. I believe she was not only exhausted in terms of her mediumship abilities, 687 00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:22.519 but just physically exhausted and emotionally exhausted from the furmoil of having all those 688 00:53:22.519 --> 00:53:28.039 people following you and doing all that stuff to you and put that aside for 689 00:53:28.079 --> 00:53:34.519 a second. For me personally, doing mediumship readings was a drain on my 690 00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:42.360 energy, mainly for the grief. Just watching and holding space for people with 691 00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:49.920 physical, emotional, spiritual pain just pouring out of them. That was so 692 00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:52.639 hard to witness, to bear witness to. It was an honor to bear 693 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:57.559 witness too, but it was It's the struggle, you know, And I 694 00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:01.239 do think that that pulls on your energy. And I would I still carry 695 00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:05.639 those people with me, you know. I think about every morning I wake 696 00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:07.559 up and I lift all the blinds in my house, and I think about 697 00:54:07.559 --> 00:54:12.320 this reading I did for this man and his daughter came through and one of 698 00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:15.960 the messages she said was let the light in, Daddy, let the light 699 00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:21.280 in. And I just thought she meant, you know, like, work 700 00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:24.000 on your grief. And he told me that he is. He refuses to 701 00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:28.559 lift a blind in his house. He does not feel that he deserves to 702 00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:31.880 see another sunrise without his daughter. Oh dear, I think about him all 703 00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:36.320 the time, and I say a little prayer for him. Anyway. I 704 00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.639 hope blinds. I hope I do too. I do too. But to 705 00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:43.559 just bear a witness to that pain, I think it does take a toll 706 00:54:43.599 --> 00:54:47.440 on you. And it sounds as though they were carting her across two continents 707 00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:52.760 in different states and just presenting her with all these all these people to read 708 00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:54.239 for over and over and over. I'd love to know how many hours a 709 00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:58.800 day she worked, TEU. I can't imagine, but I bet a lot. 710 00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:04.400 I bet a lot too. Anyway, all of her recorded readings you 711 00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:07.079 can find them on the internet. There are books written about her. It's 712 00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:13.119 really a fascinating rabbit hole to go down if you like researching evidential mediumship. 713 00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:16.320 And we hope you guys have enjoyed our little rabbit Hole Journey into the Life 714 00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:20.920 of Leonora Piper. We will be back with you next week. We have 715 00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:24.480 a fun, lighthearted show planned. We promise nothing sad about death or grief 716 00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:29.639 for dying in obscurity uh oh. Every time Samantha says that, y'all, 717 00:55:29.840 --> 00:55:31.639 I go, uh, We're going to be talking about one of those words 718 00:55:31.679 --> 00:55:38.519 at work. Here we go. All right, everyone, take care, 719 00:55:39.320 --> 00:55:50.280 have a great week, be the light for yourself and others. Thank you 720 00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:53.800 for listening to Psychic Teachers, your podcast for seekers, light workers, mystics, 721 00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:58.119 and magical thinkers. If you like the show, please tell a friend 722 00:55:58.199 --> 00:56:01.079 or leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcast. For more information, 723 00:56:01.239 --> 00:56:06.840 check out our Facebook page Psychic Teachers, or our websites Samantha Fay dot 724 00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:09.719 com and Debbowen dot com. I have a new book out called The Awake 725 00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:15.599 Dreamer Lucid Dreaming, Astral Travel and Mastering the Dreamscape. You can find it 726 00:56:15.639 --> 00:56:19.320 wherever books are sold. Thanks for listening and have a great week.