The Decorating Show on Fixed Radio. Welcome to the Painting and Decorating Show on
Fixed Radio. I'm Joel Bardo with Tov on Joel And on today's show,
we're talking about how we can offer value for money for our clients. We
constantly discuss what we believe our value is to the construction industry and the huge
benefit our craft has to the overall look and maintenance of the properties we work
on. But how can we further assure our clients that this is the case.
Also, and we're going to have music today from Robert Palmer, Evanescence,
Kalf and one or two others. Todd, my friend. What's happening
mate? You're good, heydn. I was considering calling you today, Guru.
And this is why I'm working in a block of art deco flats.
Is very fancy. The lift comes right up into the property in the rooms
that the property is not heated by essential heating. The pipes that running through
the building eat the rooms. Yeah. OK, so they're just above the
ceilings. Yeah, and they are madly hot. They are so hot that
you can see where the plaster is blown. They've toastic, then they've papered
it and painted it and it just keeps blowing. Today I touched the ceiling
and literally you could fry an egg on it. It's mental how hot?
Okay, you couldn't all the gravity out of the room and then you can
fry an egg on it. It was very hot. And then I suddenly
thought, this is why I'm having to treat all these craps. I'm having
to rake them all out. Zinzer guards and films Sanda Zinzer Guards film the
whole process. Have you got any tips for that? Apart from I think
we spoke briefly on this JILB before, because I do actually call up the
groove of advice. You said, potentially water down the paint a little bit,
just for the ease of application, because literally it's dry and as soon
as you put it on, oh I see something instantly, it's it's ridiculous.
I mean, that's that'sen and you can't turn them off because it's the
whole building, thousands of flat. Surely, surely that needs some sort of
proper insulation between the sort of the boards or whatever and the and the pipes
themselves because that heats is going to constantly cause issues. But yeah, I
mean if you're having an issue with the paint ITSELFI it's drying out too quickly.
I don't know. Yeah, I think you're the only thing you can
do is fin it down. But you're gonna get to a point where you
fin it down so much that's going to be you're gonna have no opacity to
it whatsoever. So it's um, they're honestly, Joel. The board's all
over place. The ceiling is just totally bumpy. It catches the lights.
I mean, these are thirties, these buildings. But because the pipe work
runs through them, obviously the idea was they didn't have radio. As the
properties heated internally by this huge boiler as big as big as of ten trucks,
and it's on for half the year, six months. You can't turn
right. And it's one of those old school flats. It's full of like
old people, do you know what I mean? So they're always freezing anyway,
So luckily in this place they'll be saving a fortune. They're not paying
fricks. It comes apart their grammar, but it really is. It really
is challenging. So you may find the phone rings and you're like, who's
that. Oh, look it's the housewives choice. Quickly, look in the
mirror, do your hair before you pick up, and then you can give
it in a five seas But what we say and maybe water it down a
little bit. I forgot what he's talking about. Yeah, I mean it
sounds like, really this sounds like there needs to be more space between the
pipes and the and the ceiling itself or some sort of insulation. But yeah,
that's that's an interesting one. Pain. It's one of thoset things you
come across. You haven't seen it before, but it's like this is challenging
and quite annoying at the same time because he haven't had him factor this into
the quote. And I've been messing around with these ceilings and it's eating into
my eating into my time. Maybe it needs to get some really cold paint.
Well, I just some ice in it, maybe because I'm so cool,
if I just standing for a little bit, you know what I mean,
just some sunglasses and put the vibe out there. Yeah, where do
you know what I've been? Do you know what? We give a lot
of advice and we talk about a lot of stuff on this show, and
sometimes I don't always heed my own advice and recently affoughts myself, do you
know what? We talk about this thing? And I thought I should actually
sort of implement it in my life. And what happened was, I had
a job recently, and I'm well with jobs recently, and I just feel
like I'm running behind and I'm constantly playing catch up. And I thought to
himself, do you know what, I'm going to go in Saturday and I'm
going to get this bit done and then I'm kind of blah blah blah,
and I pushed this other job forward. And because I don't ever push this
other job back, sorry, and I thought, you know, I don't
want to keep like letting them down and blah blah blah blah blah. And
I was I was all planning to have this going on Saturday, and I
thought to myself, do you know what, I'm burning myself out. I'm
working like a lunatic. And I thought, na, na, I'm gonna
do it. So what happened I said to this customer on this upcoming job.
I said, look, I'm going to be completely straight with you.
I'm really running behind. I'm sort of do my best to get with you
this week. But it's actually looked. It looks like I'm not going to
get to you in time. Because in all truth inness if I do get
to you in time, I would have worked the weekend. I would have
burnt myself up. Yeah, but burned myself out. I'm not going to
be working to my full potential. Do you mind if we leave it for
the following Monday? This is that's no problem, I thought, brilliant.
You know, I'm glad I've done it, so it is able to have
a nice weekend kind of chill out, you know, just sort of get
yeah, yeah exactly. And I thought to myself, because he's so easily
done, you can sort of just go to himself. Oh you know what,
I will go in. I will do that and blah blah blah and
get myself back on track. But sometimes you just have to go do you
know what? Is it really necessary? Just have that break? You know?
That's what I mean. I don't want to be I don't even want
to come across preachy on this show, and so oh you know, you've
got to do it its way and blah blah blah. Because there are times
when I kind of I'm doing the things that we're kind of talking about you
know, so, I'm glad I've done it. It's nice. It's just
good at you said that job. Because I was doing the other week.
I was doing really late nights and then I went in early on a Saturday
morning, which I hate doing just just try and nick a few hours and
it ruined me. I was an emotional wreck. I didn't because I couldn't
catch up on the sleep. I was just I was physically an emotionally exhausted.
I became vulnerable and then for the rest of the week I was not
in a good place all because I went in on a Saturday. Yeah.
So sometimes it's just worth It's just worth saying to the you know what,
was just being honest and just say to the customer, look, do you
mind these are the reasons X, Y and Z. Instead of making up
a load of excuse, She's just be straight with them sometimes, you know.
So, Yeah, okay, fix radio time to crack on. This
is the Painting and Decorating Show. I'm Joel Barda with top on Joel,
and we're discussing how we can offer value for money to our clients. Now,
value for money in some people's head means the cheapest possible route, and
we're talking about that, of course, but also value for money on a
premium product and making sure the customer understands the benefits of spending more on certain
products. Now, first point, trade paint versus retail. Why pay more?
Now? You know, if you use some of the retail paints,
you know, straight off the shelf, and it could be a name brand,
a popular brand, and you know you've used that paint and the opacity
can be absolutely rubbish. You know, it might as well be opened up
a tin of water. Sometimes it just doesn't cover that well. You know,
the ingredients ain't the same. You know, there's obviously because the price
seen on it. And the thing is some of these big kind of DIY
stores as well, if they do like free for two and stuff like that,
it sounds really kind of appealing. You think it, I'm gonna save
a load of money. I'm going to get because paint is paint at the
end of the day. But then when you use it, you know,
you can see the difference in the quality of the paints because he just doesn't
have the same pigments in it. It's just there is a massive, massive
difference. And the thing is though he does seem like really cost effective when
you go into the big kind of DIY merchants, because you can say you
can get five litters for thirty five quid or whatever, and the trade equivalent
could be like, well, we're talking like sixty five seventy quid now these
days plus, I mean of the some of the trade paints are going up
like a hundred plus. Now. It's mega expensive, but you know the
quality, and the thing is is obviously it's the man hours you're putting into
it as well, because if it takes more coats, do you see,
it's what they call a false economy. Yes, exactly, that's it.
So I totally understand what you're saying. I mean, nine out of ten
times trade paint is better than retail paint. You will get a few of
the trade paints that aren't all that in the same way you'll get a few
of the retail paints that that actually might be quite good. I tend to
only use retail paints if it's for sort of disposable painting. And what I
mean by that is it's I'm doing a load of miscoating, I might just
get a deal with that because it's just literally to seal the plaster. Occasionally
there's some pretty decent retail paints that's sort of on trade paint level, but
they're at the same price. So, for example, a du Lux Easycare
is similar to a sort of which is basically like a vinyl a Vinyl match.
The Easy Care is the equivalent equivalent of du Lux Diamond Mat, right,
but where is in the in the In the retail version of the Easy
Care, there's a lot more water content in that, so it's all prefin
it's ready to go out the tin, so it's easy to use. That's
why it's sort of more aimed at the dry market, whereas the du Lux
Trade Diamond Mate equivalent is a lot thicker, so really straight out of tin,
you can't you try recommends putting in a little bit notices. Yeah,
you're supposed to fin it's a lot of the trade paints you are are supposed
to fin. So if you're finn in the paint in a five littered tub,
essentially you're getting more paint as well because you've got if you've got to
fin it down. But the thing is as well, So say, like
you know, some say something on that Easy Care and you get any particular
color, say, and you probably more likely will take a third coat at
least, whereas the trade equivalent, you know it's going to go into coasts
even that much, it's not even that much cheaper than the trade of the
trade paint like the Easy Care. Well, I don't know, depending on
what, depending on I would say, I would say, I think I'm
sure, pretty certain I've seen like the Easy Care. It's ROUGHI between thirty
eight to forty two forty five quids something on that mark. And I know
Julus Diamond Matt is now Mats mad That's what I mean. But that's the
that's the trade equivalent of the thinking that I thought I was. I was
saying, it's the equivalent to sort of a fine it does. It's supposed
to be the finish, yeah, but it won't even be as durable as
the as the the trade equivalent. But this is the thing where we're discussing
it between us now. But relay his information onto the customer. What I'd
say to the customers said, I said, all right, hello their customer,
sir madam, let's talk about sausage rolls. You could go now,
So let's go any any cheapy store. Let's let's example, you could get
a sausage roll, you know you like a sausage roll, or you could
go to somewhere a bit more upmarket. Let's say, now, what do
you think is in that sausage roll. It's both a sausage roll. It'll
fill you up, you eat. It does the same job, but one
is full of pigeon and the other one might have a little bit of pork
in pigeon pigeon, yeah, or whatever they put in it, because I'm
sure it ain't prime quality pork in the cheap sausage roll. Anyway. The
analogy is they both do the same job. They fill you up with a
pork based snack. However, one of them, with the better ingredients is
gonna fill you up more. It's going to be more nutritious, it's probably
going to stand in your system for longer. But the cheaper version it won't
fill you up because it will just go straight through you. And it's probably
got quite dubious contents, right, that makes sense? Yeah, who's saying,
gang, I think that's any Yeah. So after I said this to
them and they're looking at me like I'm absolutely you go around there and start
stapling sausage roles into the walls, and well, you know me, there's
always against us around which I'd say it's a sort of sort of lower to
mid range meat based snack. It's not against us. As low as I'll
go, I won't go lower than against us. Yeah, Painting and Decorating
show on Fixed Radio. I'm Joe Barda with Tov and Joel. When we're
talking about how we can offer clients and value for money without cutting corners and
lowering quality, demonstrating how can we demonstrate the quality of a certain paint to
a customer, I think they've got to accept and understand that we're going to
be more knowledgeable on the subject than them, and they're employing us not only
for our hilarious wit, good looks and banter, but also for our knowledge
of the current paint market. And they've got to just take your word for
it. Because if you've got a client and that's trying to challenge you and
everything, and the red flags are popping up everywhere. Yeah, yeah,
I mean you can show examples of work. I mean, if you've got
reviews on your websites or you know, anything on social media, pictures and
stuff like that. That's one way to go about it. But the other
thing is as well, if you're saying, look, this is what roughly
I mean, if you're doing it a price day rate, whatever you do,
and you're saying, look, this is what it's going to cost for
me to do this job. Now is let's say it's going to take three
days, but if you get the retail version and it takes more coats,
then you can potentially go into four days. Now, it's going to cost
you more money. So if you're sort of relaying that information, basically you're
saying, right, okay, you might be paying double treble or where it
is for the premium products, but at the end of the day you're going
to get it's going to cut on the labor costs. So therefore it's more
I'm trying to help you out, or if you want, if you want
to use a lesser quality paint, I'm here longer, you're paying more money,
so I'm not trying to rip you off. I'm trying to save you
money and the finish and usually the durability is not as good either. Exactly
exactly, Now, where could you use a lesser quality paint? And get
away with it helping save the client a cup quid. Well, we just
sort of touched on it a little bit in that last segment. You'll be
fine. If you'll say you've got a big, newly plastered flat, you
could just get yourself just a cheaper sort of contract Matt to do to do
that with for the misscoat, you wouldn't want to say, right, I'm
going to get a du Luxe trade supermat and misscoat the whole place. Well,
you might do if it's not coming out of your budget, but if
you're trying to sort of save money or materials or which what a lot of
people do is they actually get a little mark up on the materials. Things
where you can use a cheaper product with, for example, for misscoating,
I think it's okay to do. So what do you think, Joel?
Yeah, I think there are I think there are things that you can use.
I mean, well, I mean I'm not saying I'm not calling it
like a cheap or rubbish product by any means, but something like Santext their
masonry paint. You've got the retail version, you've got the trade version.
I used to use the retail version all the time, even like the du
Lux weather shield, there's a retail version of their masery paint so different.
Yeah, I mean it can be a bit thinner than the trade version,
and I'm using a lot I'm using more and recently a lot more different sort
of trade products, and there is a note difference. There is a difference
in quality, but I mean the pricing is very different as well. But
on some jobs, if you're painting a little bit of mastree that's already white
and needs to freshen up and it's been painted in that like the one I'm
saying, like the retail kind of version, then I don't see anything wrong
with it. There are times when I use certain products like that. I
would say it's mainly kind of it's things especially like whites and certain colors as
well. If you do go down and wrote the root of the cheaper like
the retail version, that's that's when you notice that you're thinking, oh,
it's taking ages to dry, you know, and you're not getting a finish.
You're not getting a good finish, you know. It's just the opacity
is not there. I think it's once you've used decent paint, Yeah,
you can't go back well, that's exactly because who really wants to do free
coats and stuff like? I know, I mean even some of the durable
finishes now, even the good stuff I do find as mean, it still
can be a free coat like system. But that's to say, well,
how's the other kind of version has gone? Now, how's the retail versions?
I mean even more coats as well, because if they're it's if they're
kind of cutting corners and putting more water in the paint or they're not using
this sort of same high quality. You mentioned this before. You was like
you said, you've been doing a bit of research and you were hearing through
the painting and decorating Grapevine that the quality of paint was deteriorating or slash changing
on certain brands. I'm starting to notice this, and another decorator I know,
Danny, has said the same thing that even on proper makes, the
painting, the opacity is not quite there, and it's because they're trying to
fleece or take as much habits possible to save money. It's really becoming noticeable
now. And I know this is a bigger topic for a bigger question than
the world economy and all the rest of it. But I am starting to
notice that now that some of the paints aren't quite as as good as they
once were. Some of these companies ain't admitting it, though, because I
know people have actually approached him and said, have you done anything to have
you changed the ingredients for whatever reason? But no one's no one's really going
to be that honest about it. But I'm sure but if they're trying to
save money and cut corners. But I've noticed some of the paints that I've
always used, which were really premium paints and always swore by them, I've
view some recently on something ain't right. It's just the ualities not there,
right. Okay, let's talk about what happens when we allow customers to provide
the paints. Next Painting and Decorating Show on Fixed Radio. You're listening to
the Painting and Decorating Show. I'm Joel Bardell with Tov and Joel and finally
join us today it's a friend of the show, Peter Clark. Now,
Peter, we're talking about the principles you need to be a good decorator today,
and before we get into it, can you tell us about the awards
you want at the end of last year. Oh right, yeah, do
you like to do? They do various awards at their gala evening in November.
It's normally during the time of the painting and decorating show in the commentary.
So basically I was awarded. It was called apprentice mentor and that was
sort of for my dedication to teaching at the local college here for seventeen years
and then bringing so many people into the trades, and then in the last
seventeen years I've had several apprentices myself, so I've been on the other side
of offense. Well brilliant mate, little random flats that we love, We
love well done. Indeed, that's great. So being an award winning mentor,
we're keen to get your faults on. What makes someone a top notch
decorator. Yeah, I think there's several aspects to this that I tend to
stay focused on with the trade. Primarily, I would say being polite and
professional, you know, is a good stature to be within the local community,
understanding your planning and seeing a job through, so not just you know,
going and doing the job, but you know, talking to the customer
discussing their needs, you know, looking at various different products that can be
used and really talking through the customer so they know that you know what you're
talking about. Good customer service is another one to me. You know,
again, having your skill and knowledge of materials, tools and equipment, and
also keeping up to date with delates technology, you know, because times change.
So it's about you know, we say it's about being reliable and trustworthy.
But I think as you progress in the trade, it's good to have
that knowledge and you know, to give that quality service that people want in
their homes. Yeah. Absolutely, And I was going to say, because
it's like, I mean, you could be good at the job, but
it's all those other little points that you've dressed there that makes the difference.
Yeah, definitely. How you doing there, Peter, it's Todd here,
mate, Hello, Todd. I've got a question for you. Are you
excited and far away? Here we go. Remember there is people out there
going to be listening and they might be they might be needing some of that
mentoring skills you've got going on. So the question is what kind of skills
do you think decorators really need to focus on in the early days when it
comes to getting paint on the wall. I think really it's if it's someone
new into the trade, regardless of what as they are, because sometimes people
come into the trade later in life, you know, have to doing other
treers. But it's like how to do the correct preparation, you know,
do they know you know, the grades of the abrasives that need to be
used, types of fillers to do the job, you know, And again
understanding and knowing that the materials that are being used on a job for a
particular job for a customer, so you know, having that knowledge, not
just turning up like say putting paints on the wall, but do you know
what colors are going in the rooms? You know, and having that knowledge
too with the person it's mentoring you. I think it's just so much.
You just need that experience on the job, don't you. And also,
like you're saying earlier, you've got to be on the ball. It's not
like you just turn up with your brush and your roller, Like there's so
many factors to take into consideration, like the things that you mentioned earlier.
Actually sort of getting the actual final bit of paint on the wall. It's
like actually one of the smaller details, like you said, it's all the
prep, it's your organization, it's the people's skills, it's the environment you're
working in, your awareness of it. Yeah, I mean as an employer,
yourselves, I say, I'll say to me trainees, you know,
it's about being a good time keeper. I mean not not just about being
you know, at work on time, but about planning your time and managing
your time. You know, like today we've been stripping wallpaper, but you
know, the team know that come four o'clock they need a half hour at
the end of the job to get everything cleaned up, tidied up, backed
up, you know, clean the tools and equipment ready for the next day,
so that if you're working in someone's house, you know, your time
management is really important when you're learning. Yeah, I totally. I'm still
learning by the sounds of it. I'll just get this over, a little
bit done. I'll just do this extra little bit. Oh god, it's
gone five o'clock. It's like the phases, isn't it. Because you've got
to know that it's no point filling everything and leaving yourself have nothing to do,
So you want to set yourself up so there's always something else ahead.
So it's like the timing is the schedule of the job and doing a game
chart if you're on a really big job, you know. So yeah,
I mean, if you've had someone that's been training for a while, I
also think that, you know. I mean, I've got a year one
apprentice who's been with me a year now, but they know even after a
year about when we turn up. They know how to sheet up, to
tape or protect. Then we look at the preparation. So it's getting that
knowledge too of the processes and how you work as a person or as a
company, so that they get instilled them in, you know, from at
a very young age. Yeah, absolutely so. But so someone listening now
might be new in their journey taking on apprentice apprentices and lack experience. So
what's some red flags and bad habits to watch out for when working with young
or inexperienced apprentices. Yeah, I think so. As an experienced tradesman myself,
one thing I've learned is treat a young person as an adult. I
always believe that when they've left schooled, they're at the height of the ladders,
you know, socially, but now they're starting at the bottom, you
know, learning how to get up early you know, to get picked up
or to do the job, but to actually treat them as adults. I
mean, I've heard horror stories of apprentices that have just done nothing but rubbed
down and prying for days on end. But you can't do that with apprentices.
The red flags on that is, you know, you've got to show
them how to do this work, but give them something that's going to make
them interested. For instance, if you've got if you've got nine doors to
paint on a job, it's your job to show that person how to do
it, but then step away, let them do that job, and then
say, right, you've done that, well you've got another eight to do,
But not keep stoning stoning over them, you know, and be overly
critical, but show them how how to do the job and the process,
you know, and then inspector afterwards. You know. Praise goes a long
way with young people, you know. And I think putting someone down is
always again another red flag for me. Yeah, you can, you can
say what someone's done wrong, but I think young people tend to take a
lot to hearts, you know. And yeah, it's not like us boys.
You know, it's been in the trade for ten years. You know,
having a bit of bantle with each other. Sometimes young people are still
developing, you know, psychologically. Alex Ferguson said that two of the most
powerful words in the English language are well done. And Alex Fanson next football
man to that as and I totally concur with what you just said that Well,
you've got to keep them interested and invested at the end of the day.
And that's yeah, I think you perfectly put You put that perfectly there,
Peter. Now, Peter will thank you so much for coming on the
show today. We really appreciate it. And keep up the good work,
mate. Yeah, yes, it's lovely to hear you. Boys. Keep
listening to the radio show Chairs Power Right, Okay, here's Stereophonics, Bartender
and the Thief Fixed Radio. Fixed Radio. I'm Joel Barder with Tov and
Joel, and we've been talking about offering customers value for money on jobs,
both with savvy purchases and premium quality paints. So we were talking about customers
providing their own paints and materials earlier. When has this actually worked out in
your favor? Has it actually worked out? It? Has? I was
doing a job for a conscientious customer that was wild that was keen to sort
of save the environment and save the polar bears and all the rest of it.
Anyway, and they came up with Lick, which I hadn't used before,
which is environmentally friendly paint for every reason possible. I'd imagine, comes
in weird sort of screw top petrol can canister, so I was a bit
like, oh, here we go, but actually it was really good.
So I was introduced Lick like that, and they just got it. It
was ordered, it was on. They asked me how much, and I
gave a suggestion that I happened to got it right, and I was quite
impressed with that. I did then go on to use Lick again, which
the type of Lick I was using is okay to use on woodwork, but
I didn't really fancy it on the woodwork. I didn't. I didn't like
the finished like the application, and I found it chipped really easily. But
on the walls I thought it was all right. And since then I see
they've bought out a trade, a trade version of Lick, which I haven't
used, but again it's environmentally friendly, so I guess it's for those sort
of discerning customers with a few more quid in their pocket who want to do
their bit. I've worked for a few customers who've really done their homework.
I mean some have really invested in the construction industry in general, like do
bits and bobs and stuff like, even though they're not in a trade.
I've had ones who sort of it was telling me about all these different oratroll
products that he used in his kitchen, which I never used and I've used
since basically the customers I've heard you talk about that. So yeah, he's
called easy Surface Prep. Was one of them used it in his kitchen,
so he told me about it, and his kitchen was like solid. It
lives in the big, beautiful house as well, but his hands on to
a degree, and obviously I was doing a lot of other bits and bobs
in his place. But yeah, he told me this sort of information.
I was like, that's really interesting. So some people are clued up.
I mean there's one guy I worked for. It was a really nice fellow,
and yet again he's like follows me on Twitter I think it was.
It's always on social media anyway, and he was like even looking at he's
looking at what old people using and stuff like that. So when I went
to price and work up, I've already got the stuff, and I was
a bit like, you know what I'm saying earlier, I was a little
bit, oh god, really, And he showed me he had all this
tikerrilla stuff. So he had like the antireflex for the ceiling. He had
this Tikarilla Pro five for the walls, which I hadn't used, which I
actually really wanted to use. And I was like and he had some capitall
paint for the woodwork, and I was like, oh blinding. I was
like, you've really done your homework. Oh yeah, yeah. I'm like,
look, he's like really done his sort of homework and looking into it.
But also what happened was during the time before to starting, my van
broke down and it was in the garage for like two or three weeks,
and he was killing me and he went, oh, don't worry, just
come and I was able to use the car like missus car and he's like,
oh, I've got stuff here, so up like, because my van
was in the garage longer than expected, I was like using these hop ups.
He had like rollers, you know, giving me brushes. It also
seems a really nice bloke and yeah, he worked out really well. Shout
out what's his name? I can't remember out to Steve. That's great because
it's when someone's invested and interesting. It's nice. What the opposite of that
is, You've got someone that's watched a few videos and they think I'm going
to try and trip him up and catch him out to see if it's a
cowboy or not. And it's actually just really insulting and you're gonna have to
go up earlier than that if you're going to catch me out, do you
know what I mean? Like? And it just sets it sets a bad
tone. Yeah, absolutely mate, Right, that's if today's show. The
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