WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:10.480 Hey, Welcome to React Roundup, the podcast where we keep you updated on 2 00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:15.400 all things React related. This show is sponsored by Raygun and produced by Top 3 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:18.920 and Doves and Onvoid. Top and Doves is very great Top and Doves. 4 00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:23.000 We get top and pay and recognition. We're working on interesting problems and making 5 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:29.480 meaningful community contributions an Onvoid which provides remote design and software development services on a 6 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:34.320 task basis, so clients only pay and tests are delivered and approved. In 7 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:40.280 today's episode, we will talk about what your hosts are working on. My 8 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:43.159 name is Lucas S. Paganini, one of your hosts in the podcast, 9 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:49.000 and joining me in today's episode are also the hosts Chris Ruand Hi everyone, 10 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:54.640 and Peter Osa. Hi everyone. Hey folks, this is Charles Maxwell. 11 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:58.520 I've been talking to a bunch of people that want to update their resume and 12 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:02.159 find a better job, and I figure, well, why not just share 13 00:01:02.200 --> 00:01:04.599 my resume? So you if you go to top endevs dot com slash resume, 14 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:08.920 enter your name and email address, then you'll get a copy of the 15 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:15.000 resume that I use, that I've used through freelancing through most of my career. 16 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.319 As I've kind of refined it and tweaked it to get me the jobs 17 00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:22.480 that I want. Like I said, topendevs dot com slash resume will get 18 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:25.920 you that and you can just kind of use the formatting. It comes in 19 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:30.480 word and pages formats and you can just fill it in from there. So 20 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:36.359 I'm going to get the ball rolling. So in my case, something I've 21 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:42.359 been working on in my spare time for a very very very very very very 22 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:51.400 very very very very very very very very long time is a book about functional 23 00:01:51.439 --> 00:02:00.879 programming, and it's been like a common go project because at one side, 24 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:07.239 it's mostly started as a way for me to really digest some of the most 25 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:13.639 complex concepts of functional programming and at the same time wanting to give back to 26 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.120 the community because being quite frank, I have no expectations of becoming a millionaire 27 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:24.479 with a technical book about functional programming. It was really just to create something 28 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:31.240 that would be of value for others that are also learning, and for that 29 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:43.240 there's actually one book that is really really good and has helped me tremendously in 30 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:49.280 this journey, which I'm going to say now because since I can't talk about 31 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.960 my book since it's not ready and might take five more years to be. 32 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:59.280 Then I'm going to talk about a book that is ready and it is really 33 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:05.520 really good, which is Functional Programming Made Easier, a step by step guide 34 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:15.879 by Charles Skull Funny. This book is two thousand pages of amazing, in 35 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:23.439 depth, super technical content. Like it is deep. It is like really 36 00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:29.639 really deep. This guy really takes you from surface level up until super deep 37 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:36.319 functional programming logic. And it does it in purescript. Like there's no JavaScript, 38 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:42.599 no typescript, everything is in purescript. But purescript can be compiled to 39 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:46.719 JavaScript, so technically you can write in purescript and compile to run a node 40 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:52.520 on the server side or just to run JavaScript on the browser, so it 41 00:03:52.639 --> 00:04:00.120 is doable. But honestly, I think it's just good for the learning process 42 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:06.879 of the book, But I wouldn't really use purescript in my real projects. 43 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:14.719 It's just too overly complex to most people. And I think that even if 44 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:19.319 I have a good enough understanding of it, which I don't because like I 45 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:23.800 understand from the book, but I haven't built enough things with it to say 46 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:28.959 that I'm proficient in purescript. But I still wouldn't really use it because I 47 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:31.879 want other people to be able to understand my code and work on it. 48 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:39.199 And as good as purescript is, it's very niched the amount of developers that 49 00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:42.240 actually know how to write in it, just for you guys to know. 50 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:48.199 It's super close to Haskell in terms of syntax, which is also kind of 51 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:51.759 niche. If you look at the amount of web developers in the world, 52 00:04:53.439 --> 00:05:00.199 I would say the lass than one percent knows half called. So what I 53 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:05.279 wanted to do is a book that has all the concepts that Charles Caulfuni talks 54 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:12.439 about in this book, but everything in typescript. This is what I wanted 55 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:15.480 to do, and it's probably going to take a while, but yeah, 56 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:21.240 this is basically the thing that I've been looking on in my spare time. 57 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:27.040 So really curious to know if you guys have any particular questions about that, 58 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:31.800 and also to know what you guys are working on. Yeah, it sounds 59 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:35.720 that sounds awesome. I mean, I'm I also make courses myself, and 60 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:41.720 I just started like making a book where I made a book a book it's 61 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:48.480 like forty pages long, So yeah, I mean I need a brush up 62 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:54.839 on functional programming definitely. I mean I'm a fan of small like reusable functions. 63 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:59.279 But in terms of oh man, the stuff like currying and all this 64 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:04.240 this fancy stuff which can be super helpful, I've just I've just forgotten it 65 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:09.560 over the years. I think, Yeah, I would be I'm curious, 66 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:13.920 did you go, like, what's the path you've gone down for the I 67 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:17.879 guess the book it's set like the generation itself. Are you using should I 68 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:24.079 even say latex? Or have you gone towards like a markdown. There's so 69 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:27.319 many solutions out there now for this type of stuff. I'd be curious and 70 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:32.079 like, what tools are using there? I have never used Latex. I 71 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:39.160 think the closest I got to a complete It's not that bad, it's just 72 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:46.360 weird. I think the closest I got to a completely pure functional language was 73 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.680 Hascal. So a while ago I was trying to learn Haskell. When I 74 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:55.879 was I was like, okay, let me go into the core of functional 75 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:59.800 programming and then I can take it to out development. So I tried to 76 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:04.360 or house go and I didn't go super deep on it, like to the 77 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:13.160 point where I actually built a useful API, but I was able to at 78 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:26.240 least do some simple scripts like validating an email, validating document registration, like 79 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:31.639 doing some scripts like that, but I wasn't able to really like build something 80 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:38.519 as complex as an API with it, which I think the complexity with functional 81 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:46.319 programming starts when you need side effects, because it the core idea is that 82 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:53.360 everything needs to be pure, but you need to be able to have side 83 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:57.279 effects, right, Like, you can't just have functions that always return the 84 00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:01.920 same thing, because what if you have a function that needs to get the 85 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:05.600 current time, It's always going to be different, So how do you do 86 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:09.120 that? You know, and there are ways for you to do that in 87 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:13.600 a pure way like it. Some may say that it's kind of a hack 88 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:18.959 because at the end of the day, you're not like really returning the same 89 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:24.439 thing all the time. But in a way, it's kind of like conforming 90 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:30.360 to the functional programming standards. But when you're building an API, which requires 91 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:35.039 a lot of that, then that's where I think most of the complexity of 92 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:41.679 functional programming lies. And I wasn't able to do that with Haskell or purescript. 93 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:48.679 I did it with FPTS a bunch of times, actually, and fpts 94 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:54.679 is a library for typescript which exposes multiple functional programming data structures. It's a 95 00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:01.279 really amazing universe of data structures, Like they have almost anything that you can 96 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:05.679 think of. They have wrappers around a synchronous call. So for example, 97 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:11.639 we have promises in jobscript, but promises they are eagerly executed, and in 98 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:18.200 FPTS, they wanted to have a synchronous way of retrieving data that would be 99 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:22.960 lazily executed, so you could compose it with other operators and it would only 100 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:28.679 run at the end, like not while you're applying to the operators, because 101 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:35.159 when you're doing functions, then you do like dot then and that executes, 102 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.200 and then it goes to the next dot then and that executes it, then 103 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:41.720 it goes to the next dot them. But the idea with fpts is you 104 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:48.919 define all the operators that will transform your data, and the data only goes 105 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:54.120 through the entire pipeline of transformations when you call it at the end of the 106 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:58.519 entire chain. So it's kind of like you apply all the operators and you 107 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:05.320 return something that FPT calls a task, and the task is pure and simply 108 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:11.159 a function that returns a promise, but it's not a promise itself. It's 109 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:15.320 a function that returns a promise. So it's not executed yet. You need 110 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:18.879 to call it to execute. So everything else PTS is kind of like that. 111 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:24.399 It allows for lazy evaluation of a bunch of things. They also have 112 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:31.600 rappers for maybees, so we do a lot of like string or noul. 113 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:35.200 If you were to really use functional programming, you would not have nual, 114 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.559 you would have a maybe or other languages call it an option, which is 115 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:45.919 a wrapper around the value that could be nulable. So imagine a data structure 116 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:52.120 that is like a data structure that has a property called tag, and this 117 00:10:52.320 --> 00:11:01.679 tag is a string that can either be some, are on. If it 118 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:05.000 is none, then that's a that's the entire object. It's like an object 119 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:11.080 with the property tag equals to none. If it is some, then it 120 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:16.399 has another property called value, which holds any kind of value that you want. 121 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.840 So and then you can have a type union which is like an option 122 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:30.799 of t is equal to none or sum of T. So when you have 123 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:35.720 an option of a string, that means that either you have none which is 124 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:41.600 not, or you have a sum which has a property called value that holds 125 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:45.879 the string. So there is no rule. Uh. And and then you 126 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:50.679 might say, okay, cool, but what the hell, like, really, 127 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:54.360 why do you need that? And the cool thing is all the operators 128 00:11:54.360 --> 00:12:00.000 that come with it. So if you have an option, then fpts exposed. 129 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.720 This is a bunch of operators for you to work with that. So 130 00:12:03.759 --> 00:12:09.120 you have like a map, and a map operator takes a function that converts 131 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:13.679 the value, but only converts if the value exists. So if the value 132 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:20.320 is none, then the function never gets called, so you don't need to 133 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.279 like check if it is neual, then don't do anything, and if it's 134 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:28.279 not dual, then do the transformation. You don't need that because it's already 135 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:33.320 wrapping that for you. You know, your function is only going to apply 136 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:37.159 to the value if the value is not neual, so you don't have to 137 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:41.600 write checks for new and undefined. And then you could also, for example, 138 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:50.639 use an operator called flatMap, which is going to return another option. 139 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:54.279 So imagine that you have the option of a string. Let's say that you 140 00:12:54.399 --> 00:13:00.720 have like a an email, so this email my might are my not exist, 141 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.360 So you have the option of a strength that is an email, and 142 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:11.480 then you want to transform that email into using a function that takes the string 143 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:18.240 and it also returns an option. It also returns something that might or might 144 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.799 not exist, So you can use the flatMap operator. And if you use 145 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.440 the flatMap operator in a in an option, if the option is none, 146 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:31.000 it's not going to do anything. If the option is some is going to 147 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:37.240 apply, and then whatever returns becomes the new value. So if it returns 148 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:39.120 none, then you have none. If it returns some, then you have 149 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.919 the value transformating. So there are a bunch of utility functions like that, 150 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:48.360 and some of them are really, really really powerful. And I absolutely love 151 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:54.279 fpts, and I'm really thankful for Julio Guanti, which is the creator of 152 00:13:54.320 --> 00:14:03.960 this universe of libraries. But the problem is that not your co workers aren't 153 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:07.120 necessarily going to keep up with your learnings of fpts. So we got to 154 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:11.559 a point where I was really proficient in it, but the rest of the 155 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:16.960 team wasn't. And okay, cool, The code was cleaner to my eyes 156 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:22.440 because I was more proficient in it to understand it, But to others, 157 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:28.000 they were like, I just want to do a cred How the how do 158 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:33.519 I do this with this? You know? Uh? And then we just 159 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:39.440 decided to not use fpts anymore, even though it's an amazing library that solves 160 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:48.200 a lot of problems. It was just not worth the overhead to the engineers. 161 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:52.600 Yeah, so I do have a question. So yeah, I think 162 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:56.879 it's a good book. So you know that I think most of them in 163 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:01.240 the industrialized a lot of people are kind of like from out so reconize us 164 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:05.799 of like op neds sense or really you come to talk about like, okay, 165 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:11.120 solid principles, which many of them usually kind of highlights from Opie concepts. 166 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.480 And in your book, like, is then the way you're trying to 167 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.879 kind of encourage a lot of people to practice like functional programming in this real 168 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:26.799 sense? Like, is then any way or is it maybe something you're kind 169 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:30.919 of planning. Maybe I wouldn't really say she's spilled the beans, but just 170 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:35.519 maybe is there I feel like thought about it, I'm front of maybe a 171 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:39.679 way to kind of sensitize or using functional program is the best way to go? 172 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:46.879 Was it very nice to go the goal? If there's any part in 173 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:52.440 my book, because thus far it's just explaining the concepts. There wasn't any 174 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:56.320 part of the book thus far there was like just trying to convince that functional 175 00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:02.879 programming is the golden standard and or is terrible because I've been there already and 176 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.000 OP is not terrible. I actually went back to a lot of things that 177 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:12.159 like, I missed a lot of things that OP had, especially dependence injection, 178 00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:19.080 Like a lot of frameworks offer dependence injection, and there was just the 179 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:26.960 ex the dependency injection within functional programming wasn't wasn't the best experience. So there 180 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:30.279 are a lot of things that I missed in OP when I went into this, 181 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:37.679 the search for the golden standard of programming that I actually that made me 182 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:42.159 think back, look back and think, oh, actually, it's not that 183 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:48.200 functional programming or OP is best. It's just you need to be able to 184 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:52.320 mix and match and figure out which one is the best in each context. 185 00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.600 So, for example, you're creating a bunch of utilities, why would you 186 00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:02.879 do them in OP? Like that makes sense? You can build like the 187 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:06.079 next low dash. Why would you do it? You're just going to create 188 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:10.599 a bunch of unnecessary dependencies. It would be much better if you just created 189 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:15.480 isolated functions. But now you're creating a component. This component holds state. 190 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:22.319 Why would you not use a class? You know, that's what they were 191 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.680 built for. It makes total sense to use them, And what I actually 192 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:34.440 generally do is I try to isolate as much as I can from the class 193 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:41.880 methods and properties into functions and then call those functions in the class during its 194 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:47.319 creation. So let's say that I have a method in a class that is 195 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:52.240 like really complex, Like imagine a method that is like three hundred lines long, 196 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.880 and then you're like, it makes sense that it belongs into this class, 197 00:17:57.079 --> 00:18:00.359 is not going to be reused anywhere else, so there's no point in 198 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:07.000 making it a function, and everything inside of it is not utilities, Like 199 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:11.119 you have three hundred lines, but you already like isolated everything that you could 200 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:17.240 which were just utilities like data structure, conversions, et cetera. The three 201 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:21.160 hundred lines that you have there are all lines of actual business logic. There's 202 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:25.519 specific to your application, and it wouldn't make sense for you to just isolate 203 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:33.599 that in utility functions. You can still create a function that generates that method, 204 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.640 and that will at least allow you to remove those three hundred lines from 205 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:42.759 the class file and isolate that in another five and just important. So what 206 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:48.200 I generally do is every time I have a function that returns another function, 207 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:56.680 I prefix it with make so Let's say that I have a function that it's 208 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:07.839 supposed to return. A function that receives like a body of data and processes 209 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:12.119 that and returns a response. Let's say that it's like a I don't know 210 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:18.759 a calendar system, for example, So you have a post request that receives 211 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:23.599 some data and it needs to go to the database, save that data, 212 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:29.319 do a bunch of validations, and then return the calendar object, the calendar 213 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:34.960 event object that was created. So you could just have this entire method in 214 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:45.359 a class called like calendar events handler or calendar events controller whatever, or if 215 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:48.839 you just wanted to clean up that file, like the class itself is too 216 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.920 long and you want to be able to isolate that function just for readability, 217 00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:59.799 you can create another file called like make create calendar event, and that ex 218 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.279 is a function called make create calendar event. And this function takes all the 219 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:10.400 dependencies. So let's say that for this function to execute, he needs a 220 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:18.319 reference to the database service, a reference to the time zone service, a 221 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:22.039 reference to the user service. Okay, so these are the parameters that you're 222 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:29.079 going to give and then it's going to return to you the function that takes 223 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:33.960 other arguments and creates the calendar event and returns it if that makes sense. 224 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:40.519 Hey, there, this is Charles Maxwood. I'm excited because I wanted to 225 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:44.519 let you know about this thing that I pulled together that I had just I've 226 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:48.440 been dying to have this for years and I never felt like I could, 227 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:51.640 and then I just realized that there's no reason why I can't. So I'm 228 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:56.039 putting together book club and we're going to read development focused books, career books, 229 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.000 you know, technical books, whatever. The first book that we're going 230 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:03.599 to do is going to be Clean Architecture by Uncle Bob Martin. If you're 231 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.279 not familiar with clean code or some of the other stuff that Bob has done, 232 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.119 check that out. I've also talked to him on the Clean Coders podcast, 233 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.400 which is on Top End Devs. But yeah, we're gonna get on. 234 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:15.720 He's going to show up to some of our meetings. And what I'm 235 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:19.160 thinking is we'll probably have like five or six people part of the conversation along 236 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:23.359 with Bob and I at the same time, and we'll just so somebody can 237 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:27.279 come on, they can ask their question, and then we'll just rotate people 238 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.839 through, so we'll mute one person, unmute another person, when it's their 239 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:34.680 turn to come on and be part of the discussion. So we'll do that 240 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.000 for like an hour hour and a half. And then the other part of 241 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:41.039 it that I'm putting together is just kind of a meet and greet gather area 242 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:47.680 on gather Town. And so after the meetup and the call, we we'll 243 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.759 do as we'll all go over to gather Town and you can just log in, 244 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:53.079 walk up to a group and have a conversation, and that way we 245 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:57.000 can all kind of get to know each other and make friends and get to 246 00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:00.039 know people across the world. One thing that finding is that, yeah, 247 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.799 the meetups are starting to come back, but a lot of people don't have 248 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:06.759 the opportunity to go to a meetup and I really want to meet you guys 249 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:08.319 and talk to you. So we're gonna put all that together. It'll all 250 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:11.759 be part of that book club. You can go to top endevs dot com 251 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:15.000 slash book Club to be part of it, and I'm looking forward to seeing 252 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:18.559 you there. The first book club meeting will be in December, the beginning 253 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:22.880 of December. We're starting the first week of December, and you'll also be 254 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.519 part of the conversation about which book we do next. I have one in 255 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:30.680 mind, but I want to see where everybody's at. So there you go, 256 00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:40.240 yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, I understand. Actually, 257 00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:45.039 So I think one thing is that I think functional program is actually I think 258 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:48.839 the functional program we do have, they'll spend some of the weaknesses. However, 259 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:52.839 I feel that a lot of people kind of you know, feel that 260 00:22:53.079 --> 00:23:00.880 Okay, Opiece, it beats a bit. It also kind of like stimline 261 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.680 principles are all and that when you're maybe for example, i've actually kind of 262 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:08.640 been in record if you were by if you're like, so you're kind of 263 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:12.440 creating your utility functions, you know, just they're going to be like functions 264 00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:15.000 and like if you will be like, oh, why don't you put this 265 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:21.720 in the class and those methods and that kind of thing, because of well 266 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:27.240 they're kind of familiar with opiece class methods and so on. So that's why 267 00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:33.880 I asked that question because it's kind of like a very big and I want 268 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.039 to say controversy, but I think that's that should be the world. But 269 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:41.200 yeah, that's that's absolutely great. So so I think I'm another question, 270 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:47.440 the question is do you think like, Okay, I don't know if you've 271 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:52.160 kind of had experience with a lot of people who kind of purely follow functional 272 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.920 program I think I might say if I kind of follow like Charls Simpson on 273 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:00.480 LinkedIn, we kind of talk so much about like functional programming. So I 274 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.000 don't know, do you feel like if you've actually worked with like people who 275 00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:11.119 are kind of like functional programming stream language, if that a lot of people 276 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.880 actually do it a lot, do you feel that there's this kind of knowledge 277 00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:18.519 gap in some aspects of functional programming that you feel that maybe in your books 278 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:23.599 you're kind of going to highlight because I know so people feel program is just 279 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:30.920 functions, just maybe functions, functions and functions, so like that, Yeah, 280 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:34.039 that kind of thing. What would I tell people that want to learn 281 00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:40.920 more about functional programming or that might that maybe they have like a simplified view 282 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.039 of it, just thinking that functional programm is just creating functions. Okay, 283 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:52.000 that's a good question. So I would say, first off, a functional 284 00:24:52.079 --> 00:25:02.000 programming language is a language that allows you to treat functions as first class citizens. 285 00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:07.599 And that's different from just being able to create functions, because you may 286 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:14.680 be writing functions in a language, whatever language you can think of, like 287 00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:19.400 I'm sure that most languages, most programming languages have the concept of functions, 288 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:25.559 but the fact that you can create a function doesn't make that language functional. 289 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:33.680 What makes it functional is being able to treat functions as first class citizens. 290 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.240 And what do I mean by that is being able to treat functions as data. 291 00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:45.359 Like when you call a function that is like ad and then it takes 292 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:52.279 two perameters two numbers one and two in returns three. That's you expect every 293 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.759 single language in the world to support that right, to support the ability for 294 00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:00.400 you to create a function called ad that takes super memeters with numbers and returns 295 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:07.480 another number. But functional programming languages are special because they allow you to pass 296 00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:14.119 other functions just like you would pass a number or a strength. You should 297 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:18.880 be able in a functional programming language to call a function that as an argument 298 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:26.720 receives another function, and it might return yet another function as a result. 299 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:33.799 So the first requirement for a functional programming language is for you to allow you 300 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:44.480 to treat functions as first class citizens, functions as data. Then another huge 301 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:49.920 thing, which is not like It doesn't mean that it doesn't allow the opposite, 302 00:26:49.960 --> 00:27:00.400 but it needs to allow immutability ideally it would enforce immutability. But technically, 303 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:07.119 like you can say that a functional programming language is functional even if it 304 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:15.720 allows mutability, just simply by also allowing for immutability. So JavaScript is functional, 305 00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:19.640 but it also allows you to mutate the objects. If you were to 306 00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:26.920 write functional code, you would never mutate anything. But then you say, 307 00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:30.640 Lucas, what do you mean, Like I have a user object, I 308 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:37.519 need to change the name. Sure, you create another object with the new 309 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:42.400 name, but you can't mutate the original one. And there are a bunch 310 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:47.400 of libraries that facilitate your life on that. So you could use EMMER, 311 00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:52.680 you could use immutable JS, you could use fpts as I was mentioning previously, 312 00:27:55.839 --> 00:28:02.000 and then you would write your entire code, including your variables, like 313 00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:07.759 you technically should not use let variables anywhere because they are also mutable. So 314 00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:15.319 you should be able to write everything as constant, every every everything needs to 315 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:22.799 be constant. Nothing can be mutable. And it's crazy because you can actually 316 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:26.559 write everything that way. Like at first it was like that's that's got to 317 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:33.960 be impossible, like that's there's gotta be a scenario word, But it actually 318 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:38.920 is possible. So I would first say that, just so that the person 319 00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:45.720 can understand that functional programming is not just creating functions. And then I would 320 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:52.240 say what do you get by knowing this and by working in a language that 321 00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:56.799 allows that? And then and then I would tell the person, now you 322 00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:03.880 are equipped to start learning functional programming techniques. So now you can research about 323 00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:17.880 maybe about hiders, about lenses, about currying, as Chris was just talking 324 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:26.480 about, Uh, you can learn about semigroups, ords, semiards, rings, 325 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:33.960 moneds. You know, there are a lot of abstractions which all those 326 00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:38.839 names that I just mentioned, they are patterns, you know. They're they're 327 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.319 not specific to a particular language. They're not specific to Haskell, they're not 328 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:47.880 specific to scholar, they're not specific to jeascript. They are patterns kind of 329 00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:52.759 like in OP we have like the adapter pattern, we have the strategy pattern. 330 00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:56.839 In functional programming you have a bunch of patterns too, And I think, 331 00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:06.880 uh, functional programming developer is someone that understands the patterns that exist, 332 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:15.039 and then he can apply those patterns even in context where he's also using object 333 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.720 or into programming. So you can have parts of your code that are functional, 334 00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:23.240 other parts that are that are OP but the thing is you got to 335 00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:30.279 understand the techniques and the patterns, that's all. Yeah. I wanted to 336 00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:34.359 point out a funny, like a funny side note. You mentioned there's there's 337 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:38.880 no language where you shouldn't be able to define a function. And I remember 338 00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:42.880 my first days when I was learning C Sharp and I'm like, oh, 339 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.960 like exactly how you describe, like, oh, I just need a quick 340 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:48.799 function here, I'm gonna do this, and my mentor then he's like you 341 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:52.559 can't, and I'm like what. He's like, Yeah, there's no such 342 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:56.039 thing as as just like a plane function. And I was like what because 343 00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:00.559 like I was coming from the front like front end world, where okay, 344 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.759 yeah, in Angular you're you're still doing class stuff, but I was in 345 00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:08.839 the React functional hook world and it like it like blew my mind. I'm 346 00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:12.279 like, okay, so I really have to make like a static class with 347 00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:18.039 a static function and that acts as my or a static method and that acts 348 00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.359 as my function. He's like yep, so I mean now they have they 349 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.759 have local functions. I'm not sure how new they are, but uh, 350 00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:27.720 I just wanted to point out, like for people who are listening to I 351 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:33.200 agree with everything you guys are saying like, it's there's huge value in kind 352 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:40.680 of learning both of these paradigms because and for me, I think it's stubborn 353 00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:45.160 and kind of ignorant to be like, oh, only functional programing is good, 354 00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:49.000 only class OP is good. I think there's there's cool ways of solving 355 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:55.440 problems with both both ways. But I will say it's super hard. At 356 00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:59.480 least it was for me. Like I spent years doing functional react hooks and 357 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:02.920 now I'm right more C sharp, and you somehow you keep you carrying like 358 00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.160 these functional ideas that just don't always apply or they're just for the other people 359 00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:12.960 who have been writing OP forever, they're like, why didn't you just do 360 00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:15.359 like this? And it's like a super obvious implementation after you see it, 361 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:21.359 but you just you're just, yeah, you're just stuck in one mode or 362 00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:24.799 the other. So for people who are listening, if you're intimidated or whatever, 363 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:29.759 it's I mean, it's all stuff that we face every day, and 364 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:34.960 and sometimes they're there. First of all, there is no like one best 365 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:42.559 solution. And then even even whether you know you're doing object oriented or functional, 366 00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:45.480 even then, as Lucas was saying, there's there's so many different strategies 367 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:53.480 and patterns that you can do to solve these things that yeah, I don't 368 00:32:53.480 --> 00:33:00.839 know, I'm kind of rambling on, but yeah, I don't know where 369 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.640 I'm going with that. I would just yeah, I'm just saying like, 370 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.559 yeah, I mean, there's volume both. I guess it's the final That's 371 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:16.000 what I'm trying to say. Definitely, definitely, definitely. But what about 372 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:22.279 you guys? So I took thirty one minutes to talk about my side. 373 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:28.799 I feel like now I'm curious, so we may even have to do like 374 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:39.160 another episode just for each of you. Yeah, yeah, ok, yeah, 375 00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:43.160 I mean what I'm I'm working on, of course, I'm using React, 376 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:47.119 but the actual what I've been pushing in the last episodes is my video 377 00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:52.200 generator thing. But in terms of React, it's nothing like specifically a framework 378 00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:57.000 or anything for React. I'm just using it as my as the front end 379 00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:01.319 framework for the for the website. And although I should say maybe that will 380 00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:07.359 get interesting, like in later episodes, I can mention or whatever. I'm 381 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.360 trying to get into an electron app because I think the type of app makes 382 00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:15.079 the most sense as a desktop app because you need some like recording, screen 383 00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:20.559 recording and voice recording and all that stuff, and I'm learning all the weird 384 00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:24.360 I never really learned electron, and they have kind of a I'm sure it's 385 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.119 not weird for experts and people who have been using it, but they have 386 00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:32.079 a like you have your renderer and then you have like the actual like node 387 00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:36.960 code. I don't really understand it. I have to the documentation, but 388 00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.800 but there there's some quite interesting stuff. It's I think it's mostly around security, 389 00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:45.119 but there's kind of like a messaging bridge, so you make sure like 390 00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:50.360 because it runs in a browser and you it's basically so like you can't expose 391 00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:58.719 the entire file system to like the world as an example. But yeah, 392 00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:04.039 so I don't I don't have any think like to too crazy react specific in 393 00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:10.320 my in my projects. You should check out Taudi. It's a project that 394 00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:17.719 yes, uh, it's an alternative to Electron, and from what I see. 395 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:24.039 From what I see, it compiles two really really really smaller bundle sizes. 396 00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:31.880 And I think the way that they do this is because Electron compiles with 397 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:42.320 the Chromium binary along with it, and Taudi compiles in a way that uses 398 00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:49.960 the the browser engine that is native to the environment. You're compiling two so 399 00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:52.280 and this is a gas actually, but I think it's the only thing that 400 00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:58.880 makes sense because it generates bundle sizes that are like three megabytes. That's awesome. 401 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:02.440 Yeah, yeah, because that's the one like the infamous thing about Electron 402 00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:06.400 yet, like yeah, it's super cool. You can now you can build 403 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.239 even desktop apps with JavaScript. But that's always what everyone talks about, is 404 00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:13.840 you have like I think the minimum is like two hundred or something like two 405 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:16.440 hundred megabyte, so it's pretty high. I'm sure they've improved it, but 406 00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:22.559 yeah, cool. I will definitely check that out. And I think they're 407 00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:29.840 I think they build not they bundle not just for desktop, but for desktop 408 00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:35.159 and mobile, Okay, always a bonus. Yeah, yep, cool. 409 00:36:36.559 --> 00:36:39.800 So yeah, just check it out because I'm not sure if they if they 410 00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:45.159 have mobile support and are adding desktop, or if they have desktop and are 411 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:49.480 adding mobile, or if they are I have both because since then new rks 412 00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.880 you really want the desktop support then, so perhaps check that out before because 413 00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:58.679 otherwise may be better to go with Electron just because like at the end of 414 00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:04.719 the day, is is the de facto standard currently right, like everyone using 415 00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:13.000 it and is battle tested. M okay, how about you, Peter, 416 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:20.840 Yeah, not really much. I kind of worked on articles like last week, 417 00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:23.239 I looked though some CSS. I think it's be the kind of like 418 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:29.400 the landmark of my week kind of social meetings and CSS or kind of awesome 419 00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:34.559 boots. I think it's about texts rapping on the risk right. I kind 420 00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:38.719 of released it on the refinance block. I think I worked on rounded corners 421 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:44.960 and school bus and soso folks right to not really much just fancy saisis Yeah, 422 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:50.480 yes, okay, Peter, I have a I have a question for 423 00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:54.480 you. This is like super general about CSS. What do you what are 424 00:37:54.519 --> 00:38:00.039 your thoughts of the I don't want to mess it up? Block l modifier? 425 00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:05.119 Is that? Like is that still are people using that? Was that 426 00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:08.159 old school or I remember that from like years ago? What do you think 427 00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:14.159 about it? Or yeah? Yeah, well the block Yeah, I think 428 00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:16.280 it's small in the old scoopacity if we use it both the is it for 429 00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:21.679 okay if you don't kind of combat on inline elements to like your block element 430 00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.960 as as, I think it's kind of just in those cases, yeah, 431 00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:30.840 as I feel it's the kind of just yeah, I just remember like I 432 00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:36.000 mean they are they are. I understand the concept because like you're very specific, 433 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.480 you know exactly where your style will be applied. But I just remember 434 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:42.880 you can end up if you're too how should I say, if you're too 435 00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:47.639 flowery with your writing, you end up with super long tags? Yeah, 436 00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:52.079 yeah, exactly. So I think what once you need to understand. I 437 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.719 think most of the time is we just need to I think, like more 438 00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:59.880 in the elements that are kind of default values. Right, so when men 439 00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:04.559 aidlines and events are block that kind of I acknowledge. I think that will 440 00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:08.320 actually help you to actually know I assigned that identifyer to for example, you 441 00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:14.440 just assigned like a block identify it to destart this kind of pointless because you 442 00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:17.480 know it's kind of a block element, right. But then you may be 443 00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:22.320 a situation whereby we want to assign something to like re spam or maybe like 444 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:27.800 a paragraph, right, you need to like put the identify and then yeah, 445 00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.840 maybe you want to kind of just some kind of fancy stuff. Then 446 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:36.920 yeah, we get so I think it's it's still used though, but I 447 00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:43.440 think it depends on your knowledge on how like the defaults the default to displays 448 00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:50.400 for all, like like elements, right, Yeah, I honestly didn't even 449 00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:55.199 recognize the pattern when you said block element modifier because I was so used to 450 00:39:55.239 --> 00:40:02.320 just saying Ben that I forgot what, uh what the letter is actually then, 451 00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:10.880 But yeah, it's funny that that really is. It is going into 452 00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:17.519 like not deprecation, but very like not used anymore for the community. Like 453 00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:25.280 it seems that everyone that was in that train is migrating too. H every 454 00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:32.480 every the entire internet seems like yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, which is 455 00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:37.960 interesting because that, uh, that's also connects to the topic of functional programming, 456 00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:44.360 like tailwind is not then, but functional programming in CSS if you really 457 00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:49.119 think about it, I haven't seen the source, so yes, so then 458 00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:54.559 would be the OP of CSS. It's literally that because you have the block, 459 00:40:55.119 --> 00:41:00.519 which is a class, and then you have the elements, which are 460 00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:06.519 properties inside the class. So this is OP. You think about things in 461 00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:10.679 terms of objects, but in tailand you think about things in terms of what 462 00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:16.559 they do and not what they are. So you think about utilities. You 463 00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:23.000 think this should be spaced like that, this should have display flax, this 464 00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:28.519 should et cetera, et cetera. So it's like just a bunch of utilities 465 00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:35.840 that they don't give meaning, but they give functionality. Yeah, I've never 466 00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:39.920 thought of styling like that way, but yeah, yeah, I think that 467 00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:44.920 that that's kind of like a goodlogy about it. Yeah, that's very good. 468 00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:50.519 Yeah, maybe maybe that's like your resource or or something book or something 469 00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:53.760 about it. It's absin a little good that's a little good analogy. I 470 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:57.960 think that's that is kind of like if we're good, it explains to some 471 00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:04.719 well maybe a yeah, an intermediate or a bit seen that probably yeah, 472 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:08.320 they will probably in a different light. Yeah that's true. Well wow, 473 00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:19.679 And I don't know if I just said that at loud or if I read 474 00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:23.239 that somewhere else, because to me, it feels that that's how they should 475 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:29.840 they should present TAILWIN. I think that this is the easiest way for you 476 00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:36.519 to present tailwin. It's like the tailwent website should say this is functional programming 477 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:40.239 for c This is like the best way for you to introduce it. And 478 00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:44.440 so I don't know if I'm just if I just created that or if I 479 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.760 actually read that somewhere. It seems like pretty clear that it should be that, 480 00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:54.000 but yeah, yeah, I think I think that's actually true. Want 481 00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:57.960 thing is that. I think the will present it that way because it's kind 482 00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:01.000 of like for beginners, a little beginnings kind of what can we throw into 483 00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:06.400 the problem on the standdown to place set? Have you ever wished that you 484 00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:08.400 had a group of people that were just as passionate about writing code as you 485 00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:12.599 are? I know I did. I did that for most of my career. 486 00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:15.440 I'd go to the meetups, I try and create other opportunities, and 487 00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:17.519 it was just really hard, right the meetups. I got some of that, 488 00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:21.400 but they were only like once or twice a month, and it was 489 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:24.119 just really hard to find that group of people that I connected with and really 490 00:43:24.159 --> 00:43:28.400 wanted to, you know, talk about code a lot, right, I 491 00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:30.760 mean, I love writing code. I think it's the best. And so 492 00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:37.920 I've decided to create this community and create a worldwide community that we can all 493 00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:40.280 jump in and do it. So we're going to have two workshops every week. 494 00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:44.079 One of those or two of those every month are going to be Q 495 00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:45.960 and A calls right where you can get on you can ask me or me 496 00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:49.840 and another expert questions. Uh. The rest of them are going to be 497 00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:53.719 focused on different aspects of career or programming or things like that. Right, 498 00:43:53.760 --> 00:43:59.599 So it'll go anywhere from like deployments and containers all the way up to managing 499 00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:02.920 your Form one K and negotiating your benefits package. Well, we'll cover all 500 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:07.360 of it, okay. And then we're also going to have meetups every month 501 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.639 for your particular technology area. So we have shows about JavaScript, to react, 502 00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:15.239 angular view and so on. We're gonna have meetups for all of those 503 00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:17.360 things. I'm going to revive the freelancer show. We'll have one about that 504 00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:21.880 right, so you can get started freelancing or continue freelancing if that's where you're 505 00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:28.000 at. And I'm working on finding authors who can actually do weekly video tutorials 506 00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:32.039 on some thing for ten minutes. That's related again to those technology areas, 507 00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:35.880 so that you can stay current, keep growing. So if you're interested, 508 00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:39.880 go to topendevs dot com slash sign up and you can get in right now 509 00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:45.199 for thirty nine dollars. When we're done, that price is going to go 510 00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.719 up to seventy five dollars, and the thirty nine dollars price gets you access 511 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:54.880 to two calls per week. The full price at one hundred and fifty dollars, 512 00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:58.639 which is going to be seventy five dollars over the next few weeks. 513 00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:01.760 That price is going to get you access to all of the calls and all 514 00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:06.320 of the tutorials and everything else that we put out from top Endevs, along 515 00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:10.159 with member pricing for our remote conferences that are coming up next year. So 516 00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:16.119 go check it out top endevs dot com slash sign up. Okay, so 517 00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:22.239 let's start wrapping things up. So I don't even know if we want to 518 00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:27.880 do promos because the entire website, the entire episode website, what the entire 519 00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:31.679 episode was about telling what we're working on. So I myself don't really have 520 00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:38.400 promos. But Chris, if you have anything to say, yeah, I'll 521 00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:44.599 just post it again. But it's still each week I make no progress. 522 00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:49.920 So it's uh, but I should be working on it a little bit more. 523 00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:57.920 It's my code video converter. Okay, what about you, Peter, 524 00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:01.159 Well, yeah, I want to pour the articles I walked on on the 525 00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:07.639 chats. Yeah they published already and just pissed it all right. I will 526 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:14.000 send those links in the comments section for all of you that stick up until 527 00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:19.960 the end as most of the yeah, most of the web. Why was 528 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.800 the website? Why? Why is my brainthinking of website that makes no sense, 529 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:31.000 But did you walk on the website this week that strode up until the 530 00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:38.320 end of this website. Thank you because we really talked about some really complex 531 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:45.639 things today. So yeah, congrats on reaching the tuoter. Yeah, I 532 00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:49.639 saw you next week. Yeah,