WEBVTT 1 00:00:13.400 --> 00:00:19.039 And welcome back to TLF Tackles Who Killed WCW. It's an extra edition here 2 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:23.760 after having taken in all four episodes of the Vice TV docu series on the 3 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:27.480 death of World Championship Wrestling, we hear it a elapsed fan, or rather 4 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:31.000 excited to bring you a special guest who had what I think will be a 5 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:35.920 unique vantage point on the collapse of WCW, and very much looking forward to 6 00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:41.359 getting into it with him. Kevin Eck was editor of the WCW magazine from 7 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:45.240 March two thousand until the very end of the company in two thousand and one, 8 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:49.600 and was writing and organizing the magazine right up until the final day and 9 00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:53.280 even perhaps a bit beyond in terms of when we think of the doors actually 10 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:57.719 shuddering entirely at World Championship Wrestling. Kevin was also a writer on wrestling and 11 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:02.679 other sports at the Baltimore Sun and has also done stints in a creative capacity 12 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:06.040 at WWE and Ring of Honor. Kevin, it's great to have you on 13 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:07.560 the show, man. Thank you so much for doing this. Oh, 14 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:11.840 it's great to be here. Like I said, I really appreciate the invite, 15 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:14.599 So I am really excited to talk to you, because I was a 16 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:19.519 subscriber in the days you took the magazine over and was really into the direction 17 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:23.840 you took it. But remember the Wow magazine too. Suddenly we were doing 18 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:27.519 shoot interviews almost in a cafe magazine, and I wonder for you to start 19 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:30.480 there for me, because two thousand was a time when, you know, 20 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:36.159 with Russo and Bischoff coming together, everything the company, the products started leaning 21 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.719 more into the shoot thing, and what you were doing in the pages of 22 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.799 the magazine really seemed to match that. If I'm right there, that's correct. 23 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:48.040 When I first came on and started, as you said, March of 24 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:53.239 two thousand, the magazine before I got there had been sort of a it 25 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:57.959 was like a hybrid. I would describe it as there was no real direction. 26 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.640 They had some storyline articles and then they had others that were out of 27 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:06.920 character and more shoot articles. And when I came in, you know, 28 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:09.199 I talked to the publisher, who was a guy named Kenker, and I 29 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:12.039 said to him, I said, I think we just, you know, 30 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:15.800 we need to decide on a direction. It can't be half and half because 31 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:19.319 as as a fan reading this, what are we doing? Are we breaking 32 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:23.800 the fourth wall? Or are we sticking to TV only storylines or it's confusing 33 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:28.840 and w W at the time, I think had they had WW magazine and 34 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:31.520 they had RAW Magazine and they decided to take If you'll remember at the time, 35 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:38.840 I think WW magazine was their KFE mag and Raw was a shoot. 36 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:42.840 It was basically a shoot magazine. And I said, let you know, 37 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:46.000 we're not we don't have two magazines, we only have one. So let's 38 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:47.400 make it. Let's make a decision. He said, well, you're the 39 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:51.639 editor, what do you want to do? And I said, I think 40 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:53.560 you know, the the toothpas is out of the tube at this point, 41 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:59.520 I mean, wrestling at that point was openly admitting to being entertainment. There 42 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:01.439 were you know, shoot interviews were becoming a thing. You know, more 43 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:06.280 people probably read The Wrestling Observer than at any point, or we're aware of 44 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:09.240 it. So I said, let's not insult people's intelligence. Let's make this 45 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:15.199 a shoot magazine. And I think, you know, to me, the 46 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:19.199 after mags as they were called at that point, I mean they were I 47 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.840 thought, you know that that wouldn't be something as a wrestling fan in two 48 00:03:22.840 --> 00:03:24.719 thousand and I would necessarily want to read right, I want to know the 49 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:29.840 behind the scenes stuff. Kate Babe was wasn't dead, but it's certainly you 50 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:32.840 know, the business had been quote unquote exposed. So that's the decision we 51 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:38.520 made at that point, was to go in that direction and talk about, 52 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:42.680 you know, let's take people behind the curtain and let's you know, use 53 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.560 guys and girls real names, and let's talk about real relationships and almost in 54 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:51.000 some sense, you know, the publisher Ken he described it as almost like 55 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:54.520 a lifestyles magazine, like let's make it like who are these people behind the 56 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:59.919 characters, Let's show the fans who who you know, who is Bill goldbergof 57 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:01.960 well, he's the guy that owns muscle cars. So we went out to 58 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:05.439 Bill's house and shot him and you know, all of his collection of muscle 59 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:08.360 cars. I mean, those were the kinds of things we were doing at 60 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:10.479 the time. I love it. I love it. So that sets a 61 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:14.639 perfect table for us here in terms of discussing the downfall of WCW, because 62 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.199 you know, the key characters are Eric Vince Russo, Hulk Hogan and some 63 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:23.759 of the other executives like your Brad Siegels and such. Towards the tail end, 64 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:25.759 Siegel had, you know power. He was of course the one that 65 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:30.040 put Russo and Bischoff together right at the time you're starting the magazine. So 66 00:04:30.079 --> 00:04:32.360 I have to ask where you were sitting, you know, doing in depth 67 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:36.439 interviews with Eric Bischoff in the pages of the magazine about coming back and then 68 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:41.680 buying the company, about Hulk Hogan coming back in two thousand and trying to 69 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.040 you know, get a sense of comfort around this, this new Russo direction, 70 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:47.399 editing the magazine through Bash at the Beach two thousand and all of the 71 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.920 things that went wrong in two thousand and the false hopes of the Fusian media 72 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:55.759 thing. What was it like editing the magazine when everything, you know, 73 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:59.800 you had this unique access and this permission to publish that kind of material at 74 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:02.040 a time time when it was incredibly newsy, and you also kind of felt 75 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.560 the walls closing. And I suppose for the company we were working for, 76 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:09.839 well, that's for sure. I mean when I accepted the job, Kevin 77 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:13.079 Sullivan was the booker at the time, Yeah, and I had nothing to 78 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:15.240 do with the booking. I was strictly hired to be the editor of the 79 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:18.839 magazine. But when I accepted the job. Kevin Sullivan was in charge, 80 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:23.639 and if you'll recalled at that time, and this is no offense to Kevin 81 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:26.839 Sullivan, who in his own you know right, was a was a great 82 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:30.399 booker in his day. But at that point the product was just not exciting. 83 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:33.519 Oh terrible. This is This is after Russo got aust did for the 84 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:36.920 first time for the tank Abbot Debacle in January two thousand and Sullivan had the 85 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:40.839 book for about three months. They did the Hogan Strap match. I mean, 86 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.600 you just you don't have to tell any of our listeners how awful it 87 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:46.600 was. We get it. Yeah, it was bad. And so I 88 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:47.839 walked into it. No, I some of my friends, you know, 89 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:51.279 when I accepted the job, and I was at the Baltimore Sun for about 90 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:55.839 fourteen years at that point, and you know, I'm a Baltimore guy and 91 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:59.959 I never envisioned myself ever moving you know, to Atlanta, Georgia or anywhere 92 00:05:59.920 --> 00:06:01.399 else, and thought I'd stay at the Sun, you know, till the 93 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:04.560 day I retired. And you know, some people said, you know, 94 00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:08.079 why would you want to you know, people who were aware of the wrestling 95 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:12.040 war at the time, They're like man w cw Is it's in the tank, 96 00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:15.879 like it's terrible, And I said, yeah, but this business is 97 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.519 cyclical, and all it takes is, you know, you never know what's 98 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:21.839 going to happen, what set of circumstances. You know, one great storyline 99 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:25.639 could catch fire, and who knows, they could be back in the game. 100 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:30.279 Even if they never overtake w C or overtake WW again, they could 101 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:33.079 at least be better than it is right now and gain some of their audience 102 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:36.480 back or whatever. So I went in there kind of hopeful in that sense. 103 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:43.920 And then like a week after I started, Sullivan was ousted and they 104 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.720 announced that, you know, Russo and Bischoff are going to come back and 105 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:51.279 both run the company. And I'll be honest, I was excited at the 106 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.160 time. I thought, you know, this is what like the direction we 107 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.519 were going with Sullivan was was just not good. It just wasn't interesting. 108 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.959 And I thought, Okay, you know Russo and Bischoff together, you know, 109 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:06.360 both of them had you know, Russo had his success at WW when 110 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:12.079 he was head writer. Bischoff obviously had success with WCW when they were number 111 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.720 one for eighty three straight weeks and the nWo and all that put these two 112 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:18.040 guys together and man, this could be exciting, and I think there was 113 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:25.759 really a lot of optimism, but that optimism died pretty quickly, I think 114 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.839 once the New Blood storyline kicked off. I mean, at first, again, 115 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:32.480 it was exciting because it was so different than what had become so boring 116 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:38.800 and wrestling one oh one and just outdated programming under Solvan. Here we are 117 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:41.240 okay, It's like you don't know what can happen every week. Like that 118 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:45.560 kind of thing was exciting. But what I learned was just, you know, 119 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.319 Russou and Bischoff together was oil and water. It wasn't gonna work. 120 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:54.199 And Russo the more that I was actually around him and I guess we can 121 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:58.720 get into this, you know more, I just realized, like he really 122 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:01.959 doesn't know what he's doing, Like he's a one trick pony. And he 123 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:07.439 was in WWE at the right time with the right ideas when when the company 124 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.399 needed a shot in the arm and needed to take things to you know, 125 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.560 to the extreme, and he had Vince McMahon there kind of being his editor. 126 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:16.639 I mean know people have talked about this, you know, at the 127 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:22.959 when what is the trick Kevin Uh? He knows crash TV and that's it. 128 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.920 He knows one way to book, which is you know, and I 129 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:30.160 know he's referenced it many times as Jerry Springer crash TV. You know, 130 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.399 this is what he's good at. And it worked when he was in WW 131 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.879 because that it was just the climate was right for it. WW had been 132 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:43.240 so you know, homogenized in family entertainment and here we are now in the 133 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:46.360 midst of these Monday night wars and and WCW is going in a more realistic 134 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:50.399 direction with the NW and all that, and it was it was perfect. 135 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:54.480 Russo knew that's where WW needed to go, and he convinced Vince McMahon that's 136 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:58.000 what they needed to do. Now. Look, it also helped that you 137 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:03.440 had unbelievable talent there like the Rock and course Steve Austin and Mick Foley, 138 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:07.120 and then you know you had the right players. But then I think, 139 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.000 you know, it's it's been proven when you've taken Russeau out of that environment. 140 00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.720 You put him in WCW where he was in charge, it was terrible. 141 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.480 You put him in TNA when he was in charge. My opinion, 142 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:22.120 with a very talented roster, TNA was never as good as it could have 143 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:28.919 been because Russo just again he knows one way to book it's shock TV, 144 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:33.200 and had that much changed in two three years since he was in WWF that 145 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:37.480 it wouldn't work at WCW Or is it perhaps not even that he had a 146 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.720 mastery of that. I think it's just because it was so disjointed. It's 147 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:45.360 like, it's okay to do you know, even if you're going to do 148 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:48.799 crash TV and anything can happen, there still has to be some structure to 149 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:50.879 it. Yeah, and some thinking as to where are we going, how 150 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:54.720 do we get there, what do we do when we get there? And 151 00:09:54.799 --> 00:10:00.039 I just saw one example after another of Russo booking show to show with no 152 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:05.120 long term vision and let's try to pop rating this week, brot, just 153 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:07.159 do this crazy thing. Yeah, oh it didn't work. Well, next 154 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:11.840 week, we'll do this crazy thing. And it just got to be It 155 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:15.360 was just horrible storytelling. But as the editor of the magazine, it was 156 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:18.600 a real challenge because you know, there's some lag time of when you put 157 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:20.600 out in mage. I was going to say absolutely, yeah, I mean, 158 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.159 you can't say the World Champ is going to be this guy in June, 159 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.000 let's put him on the cover. You have no idea exactly exactly. 160 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:30.799 And that's what we were tesked with, was how do we kind of stay 161 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.879 ahead? And so we would have meetings with Russo and and try to like, 162 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.960 Okay, Vince, you know, I mean, it's all on your 163 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:39.600 head, right, You're the guy, You're the creative genius. Here, 164 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.799 you tell us where should we go with the magazine. Here's the date it's 165 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:46.840 going to come out. Who should be on the cover, who should we 166 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:52.679 be focusing on with stories in the magazine? And he would give us a 167 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:56.840 direction, and by the time the magazine came out, it was no longer 168 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:03.399 the direction, and and the cover looked ridiculous because it just didn't It didn't 169 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:07.399 go with what was on going on on TV. So do you have a 170 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.960 particular cover you remember, Kevin that was incongruous that way? I mean, 171 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:16.879 oh man, I'm trying to think specifically, but I think one was which 172 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.639 was just before I started. I think like Vince's new nWo. It might 173 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.639 have been the issue right before I came on. I was like the nwo's 174 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:30.360 new version, whatever version it was, Russo's version. Yeah, it ended 175 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:33.720 already like dissolved, and maybe some injuries played a part. Maybe that wasn't 176 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:39.240 totally you know, his fault, but it was just an ongoing thing of 177 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:43.360 you know, we would have these meetings and he would say, here's what 178 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.159 we're doing, bro, and he would go down this story, this very 179 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:50.399 detailed storyline, and then we would meet with him again next week and he'd 180 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:52.840 be he'd say something completely different. We'd be like, Vince, you said 181 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:56.759 last oh no, we're not doing that. Now we're doing this. And 182 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:01.679 so I was just like, man, this guy is just like to me, 183 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.000 I'll never take away the success he had in WWE, because you know, 184 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:09.279 it's it's proven. You know, the Attitude era was incredibly successful, 185 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:11.799 and there's no doubt that he played a huge part in that. But what 186 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:18.039 I saw in WCW was just a guy who was so scatterbrained and it was 187 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:20.679 just he just he didn't know how to tell stories in a logical fashion. 188 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.759 Did you work at the magazine with anybody else in that capacity that you could 189 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:28.360 compare and contrast to, like Bischoff in the Last Days or is Russo really 190 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.000 your only touch point for like sitting down and helping play in the magazine well, 191 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:37.279 after Russo left, I guess the second time Ed Farrar. There was 192 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:41.480 a committee after that that was kind of led by Ed ferrah And and what 193 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.879 I can say about Ed is he was you know, I know he and 194 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.919 Russo are kind of always mentioned together, but he seemed to be, at 195 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.240 least in my experience, he was the complete opposite of Russo in that he 196 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:56.919 understood here's how we build a storyline. Like it was just it's not like 197 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:01.480 very complicated, it's just, you know, here's where we want to go. 198 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:03.919 Uh, here's where we expect to be a month from now or two 199 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.840 months from now. And of course things can always change, but there's a 200 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:11.159 structure to it. And the TV was episodic and it flowed in a way 201 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:16.120 that made sense. And and there were times, you know, I would 202 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.279 even at times, you know, say to Russo like, well what about 203 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:22.759 you know, he would say we're doing this, and I'd say, yeah, 204 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:26.960 but last week we did this and that ah, nobody remembers yeah, 205 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.519 wrestling, they don't they don't know, they don't care. And I'm like, 206 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:35.039 he'd like he would always say, you know, it's wrestling, like 207 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:39.679 like wrestling doesn't have to have logical storytelling. Now it was I'm fascinated by 208 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.360 this, Kevin, because Russo used to do something that I used to really 209 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.799 lean into and try to understand why he would do it. He go on 210 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:50.440 WCW Live all the time. He'd do phone ins with like, you know, 211 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.120 fans and like talk about ratings and talk talk about what he was doing 212 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.320 with the book. I'd imagine as someone who used to edit wwf' magazines. 213 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:01.279 You know we already meant them. Brusso was from the magazine world. Was 214 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:07.320 he hands on leaning in with your operations as well, or was the the 215 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:11.639 WCW Live enough of sort of like the address the public part of his approach 216 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:18.559 to the job. Yeah, he really didn't give us much direction. It 217 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:22.519 would it would mainly be us meeting with him on occasion and asking for direction. 218 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.159 And you know, one of the first things he said was, you 219 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:31.639 know, he claimed that Sable on the cover of Raw magazine was the highest 220 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:37.679 selling you know, it out sold anything with Steve Austin on it or whatever. 221 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.320 And he basically said, you know, I would put I would get 222 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:45.320 the girls on the cover as much as possible, wearing as little as possible. 223 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.279 And that's and so that's you know, I don't think we put a 224 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.360 lot of women on the cover, but we certainly started doing the the photo 225 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:54.480 shoots, which I mean, i'll use the word risk gay, but they, 226 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:58.639 I mean they were pretty tame, I think in comparison to some other 227 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:03.480 things. We started doing a monthly feature where we would, you know, 228 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:07.240 do a photo shoot with a Nitro girl or one of the girls on the 229 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:11.639 roster. But you know, he would say, like I just certain things 230 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:15.960 that he would say to me stuck out, and like before I say this, 231 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.720 I mean no disrespect to the WCW talent, but Russo actually told me 232 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:26.759 one time that Booker t is going to be our rock, but he's even 233 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:31.039 more charismatic than the rock, and Steve Austin is or I'm sorry, Scott 234 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.279 Steiner is going to be our Steve Austin. But you know, bro, 235 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:39.879 I've worked with both of them, and Steina is even better than Austin, 236 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.799 and Medesia was going to be our stable. I mean, these are all 237 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.159 things that he said. Whether or not he believed them, I don't know, 238 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:48.440 but you know, and I like all three of those I worked at 239 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.639 those people, all of them I worked you know, I love Scott Steiner, 240 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.600 I love Booker t and Madesia was a sweetheart. And hey, nothing 241 00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:00.399 against them, but I'm sorry they weren't the rock Austin and stable, right, 242 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.360 And and instead of trying to make them that, why not, why 243 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.519 not just you know, make them their own try to get the most out 244 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.440 of them. He was trying to build like a counterpoint. You know, 245 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.960 they have China, we have Asia, they have this, we have you 246 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.440 know, it just it just it was. It was comical to some of 247 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:22.360 the things that came out of his mouth. I mean, we had so 248 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.600 much fun around the office just imitating Russo and his voice and his cadence and 249 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:32.480 just some of the ridiculous things that he would say. Wow, And I 250 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:33.720 mean it was it was good for a laugh, but you know, it 251 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:41.240 wasn't really good for business. He's an lapsed fan wrestling podcast with Jack and 252 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:53.759 and j Pisarro a lapsed fan wrestling podcast. So, Kevin, any other 253 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:59.679 Russeau ideas that you remember being particularly memorable for lack of a better term, 254 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:06.960 Uh, one that really that really sticks out is Russo kept saying that we 255 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.640 need a uh, we need some kind of publicity stunt. And this is 256 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.559 actually what he's I recall him very specifically saying, I know I'm doing my 257 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.599 job. I know the storylines are great. You know, I'm doing what 258 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:23.599 I can do, but nobody's watching, nobody knows how great it is. 259 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:29.039 So we need a publicity stunt. And he's throughout the idea. I guess 260 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:32.079 OJ Simpson this is if you, you know, take take you back to 261 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:36.039 the days of when OJ was still you know, a big thing. This 262 00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:41.640 was I guess maybe five years after the trial. I guess OJ had said 263 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.640 something like if he gets paid a million dollars, he'll take a lie detector 264 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.799 test on TV or something like. He had made some kind of statement, 265 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.240 and Russo said that he wanted us, he wanted w CW to pay him 266 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:59.519 the million dollars and let's have OJ take a lot a lie detector test on 267 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:03.079 live TV. And that was his big idea. That was his big idea, 268 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.880 to bring the eyeballs back to w CW so all the fans could see 269 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:11.880 the great storylines that he's that he's putting on TV. And I just remember 270 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.759 the internal reaction of just you know, is he serious, Like just the 271 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:22.279 eye rolling, and like I was personally offended. Because I was like, 272 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.799 Okay, without getting too deep here or whatever, but like we're talking about 273 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:33.319 a guy who most people believe, you know, absolutely he butchered two people. 274 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:34.920 Like, let's just say it is what it is. Everybody knows that's 275 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:40.480 what happened. This is a double murderer. We're gonna we're gonna try to 276 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:44.440 cap like how bad. I was just like, this is if anything's gonna 277 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.839 kill the company, this is it like us doing business, us paying O. 278 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:53.119 J. Simpson a prior right a million dollars or whatever the sum would 279 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:59.839 have been to be part of our show as as such a blatant, casteless 280 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.880 publicity stunt. This was just like, that's gonna kill us quicker than anything 281 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:08.079 else. I mean, luckily that idea was shot down, but you know, 282 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.359 you had the sick of fans and the people who wanted to be on 283 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:14.279 Russo's good side. Oh yeah, Vince, Oh that's that's great idea. 284 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:19.160 Yeah people, But luckily no one with any kind of power signed off on 285 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:22.960 that. But you know, those were the kind of the kind of things 286 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.960 that he would he would pitch. Did you hear that he pitched that or 287 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.880 were you in the room when he did I'm trying to get I was in 288 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:32.279 the room when he pitched it. Oh well, he just he pitched it 289 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:37.799 to the magazine staff. He pitched it too. He would have meetings periodically 290 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.599 with a lot of the different departments, public relations, Mark. He would 291 00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.720 bring us all in a room and he would all get there, you know, 292 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.200 Vince's vision of what so everybody could be on the same page and know 293 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.799 where we need to go. And he pitched that to the to the room 294 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:57.480 and and everybody looks down at their notepads or everyone pretends it's a great idea 295 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:02.640 and then talk shit afterwards. How does that go? Yeah? After it 296 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:06.200 was no. I mean I was actually we talked about like just when when 297 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.599 the meeting broke up and I was talking about talking about it to other members 298 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:12.000 of the magazine staff. I was actually hot about it because I was just 299 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.240 like, you know, like I don't want to get on my high horse 300 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:19.440 or whatever, but like I draw the line at like doing business with double 301 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.920 murderers, you know what I'm saying, Like this is not a good just 302 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:27.960 from a corporate standpoint as a company, that's nothing I want to be associated 303 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:32.440 with. On a personal level. I don't want the company that I work 304 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:34.680 for to be associated with it, like I mean, this is like I 305 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:37.839 would Probably he's probably pretty lucky that didn't go up the flagpole, honestly, 306 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:41.920 because that would have been. Yeah, the guy who's running UR Wrestling operations 307 00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:45.480 wants to do what you know? So are you saying right here now, 308 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:49.839 Kevin Eck that the David Arquette title run was Russo's second idea to get publicity 309 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:55.000 on USA Today's front page. Well, I guess according to Russo, right, 310 00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.599 legend is that it was Tony Shivani's idea. Right, Tony pitched it 311 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.440 to him, which I don't know. That may or may not be true. 312 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.480 But even if Troni pitched it, you know, so what, I'm 313 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.240 sure people pitched ideas all the time. Russo is the one that signed off 314 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:08.079 on it, and to be fair, Mischoff was there at the time. 315 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:11.640 He signed off on it as well. But what still gets me is, 316 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:17.359 obviously it was such a horrible decision, but to this day, any interview 317 00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:21.839 I've ever seen with Russo, he will not admit that it was a mistake. 318 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:25.119 He will still say to this day, I would do it all over 319 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:29.920 again. It got us. This is his go to It got us on 320 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.880 the cover of USA Today. Okay, great, because that would have never 321 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:37.559 happened had we not done that. Okay, it did you know, something 322 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:40.799 that has its shelf life for twenty four hours and then it ends up in 323 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:45.880 someone's bird cage. It did nothing for business. It didn't move ratings, 324 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:48.440 and if I'm correct, the pay per view that thought that it built up 325 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:52.400 to was the lowest rated pay per view I think WW had ever had at 326 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:57.400 that point. So there's no WCW cover with David Arquette holding the big old 327 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.160 belt that never made it to the newstands that you had to plan. No, 328 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:03.839 there is not, there's not, and look, you could say what 329 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.839 you want like and look I got to interview Arquette a few times then, 330 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:11.240 and even you know, subsequently met him a few times, and Arquet's a 331 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:17.839 great guy. But you know, we did the movie was ready to rumble, 332 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:18.799 So if I don't, you know, it was great that we had 333 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:22.920 this tie in, and I love the fact that we had him on the 334 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.599 shows and he played a part and all that just stop short of putting the 335 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:30.279 title on him, you know, Like even Arquette has said publicly, it 336 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:33.920 was a horrible idea, and it was something that again, it was decided 337 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.839 apparently that day at a production meeting to do this, like no long term 338 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.599 thought or what do we you know, nothing, like that's just the way 339 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.200 things were done at that point. It'say, oh, it's a great publicity. 340 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:45.839 But it's like, yeah, but it's the wrong publicity. You know, 341 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:49.880 like everyone looked at it as a joke. And you know, Russo 342 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.960 would always sort of talk down to quote unquote you know, wrestling fans or 343 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:57.200 wrestling people and say, well, the belt is a prop. You know 344 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:02.200 it's all fake, and well, yeah it is, but but you know 345 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:06.720 it's an important prop. And and when you when it has no credibility, 346 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:10.160 what are these people fighting for? If the title means nothing, If a 347 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.119 guy like David Arquette can hold it, you know, that meant nothing for 348 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.119 business. I mean, look, I can buy him the Jake Paul, 349 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:22.000 you know, being a champion, and he brings eyeballs on the product and 350 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.720 and he can hold his own and you know that wasn't what David Arquette was 351 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.640 and Arquette knew it. You know, I'll never forget the night I was 352 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:32.000 there, the night had happened it was in Syracuse, New York. Oh 353 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:37.000 boy, And we went to the bar, the hotel bar afterwards, and 354 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:40.799 Rick Flair had told Arquette, you know, when you win the title, 355 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.599 you got to buy rounds of drinks for everybody at the bar, right And 356 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:47.880 so Arquette was like, okay. I happened to be sitting at the bar 357 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:51.920 when Arquette walked up in order to drinks, and I had already interviewed him 358 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:53.519 for you know, a piece in the magazine, so he kind of knew 359 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.519 who I was. And as he's waiting like to put in the drink order, 360 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.319 he's just like, I'll like, hey, congrats, Champ. And 361 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:03.519 he just like looks down and like gets the sheepish grin and he's like, 362 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.680 I can't believe this. He's like, I can't believe this happened. And 363 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:10.960 he goes he goes, man, who are some of the guys that have 364 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.079 like never held it? Who should have? And I was like, well, 365 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:18.839 Booker, t, Scott Steiner, I don't remember if I mentioned anybody 366 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.920 else at that point, and he just like put his face in his hands. 367 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:25.559 He's like, oh my god, this this should have never happened, 368 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:27.759 you know, you know, it's wild, Kevin, I happened to know 369 00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:30.319 we haven't talked to you beforehand. That didn't get to see all the series 370 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:33.759 yet or any of the series. But in the series, Booker T frames 371 00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:38.400 that moment you're talking about as almost taking place in a room where Booker T 372 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:41.680 can hear the conversation, and Booker T pipes up and says, I've never 373 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.519 held it, and our Kat is like, you know, mortified at that. 374 00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:49.440 But it sounds like something like Booker's booking his own his own finish there 375 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:52.960 based on what actually happened with you at the bar. Well, he may 376 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.400 have said it to me and the Booker you know, I think that's probably 377 00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:59.599 probably what happened. You know. Yeah, it's very similar in terms of 378 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.359 the the way it plays out, But that's wild. So you remember Garket 379 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:08.240 there in the bar, not sure how he ended up in this position exactly 380 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:14.759 exactly. It was pretty clear I think personally watching the series on Vice that 381 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:18.839 when Brad Siegel didn't drop Russo after Bash at the Beach two thousand and all 382 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:25.200 the havoc that that created, that Brad Siegel really could give a shit if 383 00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:27.880 WCW went away or not. And I know that's kind of a it's kind 384 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:32.279 of a blase thing to say. You know, you Turner didn't want WCW 385 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:34.559 blow. What was your vantage point on that time period where it was like 386 00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:37.599 Russo wasn't hitting him out of the park necessarily, he had very little a 387 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:40.920 show for what he was doing. And we're not just picking on Russo. 388 00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:41.680 It's just time period. I mean two thousand, right, I mean, 389 00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.599 this is what we're talking about, the time period we're talking about. What 390 00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.519 was your impression in the office. Was it like, yeah, Brad Siegel 391 00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.279 does not care. I mean, he's not doing anything to reconstitute WCW for 392 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:55.720 the future here. Yeah, it just seemed like, I mean, you 393 00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:59.519 hit the nail on the head. It just seemed like a rudderless ship to 394 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.480 us. Who was actually in charge. Brad Siegel was this mystical figure who 395 00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:07.559 we always heard about and heard his name but never saw. I never met 396 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:11.200 the man, Oh really never met Brad Siegel. I don't know, you 397 00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:14.039 know, we had our own little I don't know how much you know about 398 00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:15.720 the way it was. The office was, the structure was set up, 399 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:22.559 But before I got there, w CW was actually in the CNN building right. 400 00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:26.200 But by this time they had moved to this little like a warehouse basically 401 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.440 in Smyrna, Georgia. That was the w CW office when I was there. 402 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:36.279 I can't say this for fact about Brad Siegel never stepping into that building, 403 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:38.000 but I can tell you I never saw him in there at any point. 404 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:42.000 Did I ever crossed paths with Brad Siegel in that in that office. 405 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:45.480 So it was always the sense of, you know, who's really running the 406 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:49.279 ship, who's in charge? If the buck ends with Brad Stiegel, like 407 00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:53.119 you said, does he even how invested is he? At this point, 408 00:26:55.000 --> 00:27:00.559 Bischoff was brought on as a consultant. Basically he had no I don't think 409 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:02.799 air. I mean, I don't Again, I don't want to speak for 410 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:07.039 him, but it really seemed like Eric came back because they offered him a 411 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:11.400 deal and he took a paycheck, and it seemed like he knew it wasn't 412 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:15.480 going to work with Russo, and I think he was I don't know how 413 00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:19.640 inspired he really was at that point to turn things around. So look, 414 00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:25.480 right after I started, the rumors about the company being sold started almost immediately, 415 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:27.880 and you know, there's a lot of Gallows humor in the office, 416 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:33.000 at least among the magazine staff, of like knowing that our time here is 417 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:36.480 probably going to be limited, Like what's our future going to be, We're 418 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:40.480 going to be sold? Are we going to fold? What's going to happen? 419 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:45.039 And you know, we just took it kind of day to day and 420 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:48.160 until they tell us to stop putting out the magazine, we'll just keep showing 421 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:51.960 up for work and doing the best we can. And we were one hundred 422 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:53.279 and I could tell you who was invested, and that was us, that 423 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.960 was me, that was the entire magazine staff. We got the biggest compliment. 424 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:00.920 And I again, it's been twenty five years since I thought about this. 425 00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:06.400 I can't remember who said it specifically, but someone within the company told 426 00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:11.480 our publisher Ken Leiker that really the only thing that's worth a shit that this 427 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:14.480 company does is the magazine. Wow, that's the only good thing that the 428 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.559 company's producing right now is the magazine, which is something you know, obviously 429 00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:19.440 we took a lot of pride in sure. So if I have you right 430 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:22.400 there, Kevin, you're saying as early as March of two thousand, the 431 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:26.319 Gallows humor about WCW being sold, was alive and well in the offices. 432 00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:30.319 Yes, there was a rumor and maybe you know better than I. Again, 433 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:33.680 it's been twenty five years. I can't recall. There was a rumor 434 00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:37.079 that some that WCW was going to be sold to some entertainment company. I 435 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:42.240 want to say they were involved with like SFX. I think SFX. Thank 436 00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:47.160 you, Yes, that was it. That started almost right after I started 437 00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:51.640 my job there. Wow. Yeah, that's interesting because when we talk about 438 00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:55.839 the saga of WCW, you know, perhaps being bought by someone other than 439 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:59.720 Vince McMahon. Fusian because they had the press conference and actually announced it in 440 00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:03.359 JA two thousand and one, takes up all the oxygen in that discussion. 441 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:06.039 So by the time you tell the Fusian story, you don't have time to 442 00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:08.759 mention that there were other there were other names in play. There were other 443 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:12.960 consortiums that put money together. I mean, jee Jerry Jarrett put a deal 444 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:17.400 together. Did you remember hearing anything about that? Him and this guy John 445 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:19.839 Corkoran and Lenita Erickson I think was involved as well. Who was an interviewer 446 00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:23.720 there for a brief What do you remember about like other bidders besides Fusian. 447 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:27.799 Well, the Jerry Jarrett group, as you mentioned, that was the other 448 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:33.240 one, and I think that was there was some optimism there because you know, 449 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.440 Jerry Jarrett was a wrestling guy, and Jerry Jarrett had made a lot 450 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:38.240 of money in the business over the years. Now you could say it was 451 00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:41.920 on a smaller scale, you know, that's fair. It was territories and 452 00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.079 all that. But I think there was some optimism that, you know, 453 00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.480 Jerry Jarrett might be a guy who would who would really help the business, 454 00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.599 really helped the company, save the company. You probably know this, Jerry 455 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.400 Jarrett was going to be the guy to sort of be the de facto Vince 456 00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:02.319 McMahon back in the day as McMahon went to of course went to Jails Steroids 457 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.200 trial. So yeah, I mean, hearing like Eric Bischoff and a group 458 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:10.720 might buy the company, hearing Jarrett was trying to like those were encouraging, 459 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.920 Like those were things that we wanted to happen, And there was always this 460 00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.759 underlying there was this sense that Vince could you know, there were rumors about 461 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:25.079 Vince coming in as well, and we we weren't as optimistic about our future. 462 00:30:25.240 --> 00:30:29.000 Vince were to buy the company because we thought, well, we'll probably 463 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.799 all end up out of a job, and that's exactly what happened. Vince 464 00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:36.599 bought the company and we were all out of a job. He's a Lapsed 465 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:51.480 fan wrestling podcast with Jack and Carno and jpsos a lapsed fan wrestling podcast. 466 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.039 What gear did you kick into when diffusing a deal was announced? I mean 467 00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:57.279 you have to cover it. I know you had a big Q and A 468 00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:02.480 with Eric I think in the spar issue. Uh, what did it feel 469 00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:03.839 like and what did you feel you had to do and did it feel real? 470 00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:08.039 So? I really thought that deal was going to go through because, 471 00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:11.160 like you said, it was announced. I mean Eric came in and did 472 00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.240 that interview with me, and it seemed like I I did not think the 473 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.160 deal was gonna you know, I had no reason to believe the deal wasn't 474 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.519 going to go through. But as far as how it affected me personally, 475 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:26.400 you know, I wasn't very optimistic about my future at WCW at that point 476 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:33.400 because the word was that that Eric and Fuchitt were going to really you know, 477 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.200 cut costs and and I think there was some speculation of you know, 478 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.680 does w CW really need a magazine. Do they have to have a magazine? 479 00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:42.599 And and uh, you know, I think it was going to be 480 00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:48.319 a bare bones operation, and and we certainly felt that there was a good 481 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:52.400 chance that we wouldn't be around, or if he did the magazine, he 482 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:56.000 was going to do it, you know, on the cheap or maybe outsort 483 00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.680 whatever. I mean, I wasn't very optimistic that I'd still working there, 484 00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:05.599 But you know, I certainly tried to plant the sea and Eric had we 485 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.720 did that Q and A that I'd love to stay on in some capacity. 486 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:13.519 But you know, I think with Eric and Fushint we had a chance. 487 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:16.480 I'm talking about specifically the magazine. We had a chance to survive and keep 488 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:22.880 jobs. With Vince, there was there was no chance Vince McMahon, right, 489 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:24.680 yeah, yeah, of course. So when you were sitting with Eric, 490 00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:28.480 I don't know how particularly you remember that, but it happened at a 491 00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:32.160 very fertile time. By the time that interview hit the magazine. Unless I'm 492 00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:35.920 mistaken, I think pretty much had already been announced that it was done. 493 00:32:35.960 --> 00:32:37.160 I mean, it was the March issue. I could be wrong about the 494 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:43.039 timeline, But did did Eric convey a real confidence? Did you come away 495 00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:45.039 from that interview feeling like he knew what he was doing, or did you 496 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:47.799 feel like because to me when I read it back, there's kind of like 497 00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:51.799 a dearth of specifics, which perhaps is to be expected when you're just in 498 00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.279 a you know, an agreement and principal letter of intent phase, which, 499 00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:57.319 come to find out, that's all they really had. They didn't have the 500 00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:01.279 final deal inked. Of course, did you come away from that time interacting 501 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:05.880 with him feeling like this is going to happen, this is going somewhere. 502 00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:10.559 I did. And I think Eric has always if anybody's ever had the opportunity 503 00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:13.519 to speak with him, be around him, or you know, even if 504 00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:16.799 you've just watched him on TV or an interviews, Eric has a great belief 505 00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:20.839 in himself. And and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I think 506 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:23.079 that's a good thing. I think he's he's confident in his own abilities and 507 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:28.440 what he can do. And I think he felt that he had a vision 508 00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:32.079 for the new WCW and he felt he had the right partners to get it 509 00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:37.039 done, and and there was a plan in place, and it even started 510 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:43.240 on TV. You started seeing there were steps leading up to the new WCW 511 00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:47.720 with there were certain wrestlers, big name guys like I think Luger and Nash 512 00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:52.599 and Go. They were being taken out on TV and and and the you 513 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:53.799 know, the whole thing that was building too was they were all going to 514 00:33:53.880 --> 00:34:00.039 come back under this new Eric led WCW. So again, I mean, 515 00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:04.240 the seeds were being planned on TV. It really felt like, Okay, 516 00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:07.079 this is going to lead to something. And look, Eric had a track 517 00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:13.039 record of both good and bad as the head of WCW, but there was 518 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:16.159 some good and when it was good, it was really good. So I 519 00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:22.480 I think if that would have gone through, would WCW still be around today? 520 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.199 I mean, obviously no one knows. You can only speculate, but 521 00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:30.239 I think it had a chance. I am fascinated and I I think you 522 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:32.559 probably know this, Kevin by the second to last issue of the magazine, 523 00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:38.000 back cover, the poster WCW the Big Bang. Yep, this is history. 524 00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:43.360 This is like a glimpse into what the vision was. I mean, 525 00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:46.360 as limited and sketched out as it was for a show beyond what came to 526 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:50.519 be the useful life of WCW. Tell us all about that. I mean 527 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:52.000 the Big Bang cover do you remember it? Do you know what the deal 528 00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.519 was putting something on the back cover that was so out in the future. 529 00:34:55.760 --> 00:35:00.400 What was the thought there? I mean, yeah, obviously this was going 530 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:04.519 to be the big reboot under Fusion and Eric and you know, as far 531 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:08.159 as us specifically at the magazine, we weren't really given any details other than 532 00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:12.199 what was it may have even been public knowledge. I don't know, was 533 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:15.239 that that basically Eric was going to go back to, you know, what 534 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:19.320 brought him to the dance and what he believed in, which was the big 535 00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.920 name stars of w c W. You know, that was what's gonna get 536 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:28.760 this company noticed again and get them back on the right track. Was the 537 00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:31.880 Hogans and the Stings and and and you know, Flares and those guys and 538 00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:36.800 and Nash and that was that was really the vision for the big Bang. 539 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:40.480 And I know there were also there was talk about some uh, some younger 540 00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:44.920 guys getting a push, like trying to trying to remember some of the names, 541 00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:49.719 but maybe Sean O'Hare was one I think who was going to be factored 542 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:53.960 in. So it was gonna be r v D was another name that was 543 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:59.440 mentioned right exactly. It wasn't going to just be Hey, we've got these 544 00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:01.519 big stars and that's going to be the whole show. Was Hey, here's 545 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:06.280 these big stars, this name recognition which will bring you to the bring the 546 00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:08.760 eyeballs. But yes, we've also got these new guys, these new exciting 547 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:12.599 guys that were going to bring along and and be a big part of it 548 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.519 as well. So, like I said, there was to me, there 549 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:21.119 was there was a lot of optimism about could this work. On a personal 550 00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:22.960 level, there wasn't a whole lot of optimism about well, what does it 551 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:27.800 mean for my career specifically? But yeah, when you put that Big Bang 552 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:30.360 cover out, that back cover, it wasn't it didn't feel like a leap 553 00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:31.599 of faith. It felt like a sure thing that was going to happen in 554 00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:37.480 the near future. It did. I mean, I felt like, you 555 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:39.719 know, it was just like the announcing that Fuschien had bought the company, 556 00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:44.039 which we later found out wasn't really the case like you said it was. 557 00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:49.039 It was an agreement in principle. It it Yeah, the rug got pulled 558 00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:51.480 out. It's like, wait a minute, this isn't a done deal and 559 00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:54.559 the Big Bang theory isn't going to happen or the big bang pay per view 560 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:59.400 or whatever. But yeah, it's felt at the time like this is this 561 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:01.159 is the direction and that it's heading and and this is this is where it's 562 00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:07.599 going to go. I know, once the Fusion deal was announced again prematurely, 563 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:13.039 you know, the due diligence was being done and and I do know 564 00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:15.559 that there were a lot of problems coming up when the when the dude in 565 00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:21.199 the due diligence phase and we started hearing rumblings that you know, this isn't 566 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:24.320 quite done yet, and uh, and we'll see what happens. Can you 567 00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:28.880 give me more color, like who's saying what about that? You know this 568 00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:32.519 was coming uh from the publisher Ken likeer to me because he was in some 569 00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:38.199 of these deal are some of these meetings, and and like the due diligence 570 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:42.360 aspect of it, I think all the department heads kind of had to meet 571 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:46.000 with the fusient people and and you know, let's open the books and let's 572 00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:52.320 see where things are. And and I think again coming from Ken, who 573 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:57.280 was a very reliable source. Ken was a great boss, there started to 574 00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:00.079 be some questions on the Fusion and maybe some surprises of wow, this might 575 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:04.880 be a little a little more daunting than we thought it was. Now Ken 576 00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:07.719 is on the Turner side or is he Where does he sit in the structure? 577 00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:12.519 Is he a WCW employee. He's a WCW employee. Yeah, he 578 00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.119 was. He's a guy that came from same field as me. He came 579 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:21.920 from newspapers and the sports journalism background. He was hired as the as the 580 00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:25.559 publisher of the magazine. He had a different editor for a while that eventually 581 00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:30.480 he wanted to move on from. And eventually it brought me in because I 582 00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:34.280 had a similar background as him. I think the fact that I was from 583 00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:37.360 oh yeah, the quote unquote legitimate journalism side of things, and that's why 584 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:39.880 he brought me in and and you know, we had a real good working 585 00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:44.920 relationship. But yeah, he wasn't necessarily a Turner guy, but as he 586 00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:46.000 was, you know, the head of the magazine. Yeah, I just 587 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.920 want to see if there was perhaps like a Turner publishing division, and he 588 00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:52.079 was like, you know, one of it was one of many publications he 589 00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:57.920 oversaw. Okay, so that's fascinating because there was there was some word contemporaneously 590 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.960 that you know, some of the due diligence. I remember investor Warburg Pinkus, 591 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:04.840 which is a big hotshot investment firm, kind of seemed to fall out 592 00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:07.519 of the deal that was brought to the table in the first place. It's 593 00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:09.440 been reported in the books like the Brian Elvers book and the Guy Evans book 594 00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:14.360 that that Warburg Pinkus eventually got cold feet. I'm sure the Observer reported at 595 00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:16.519 the time as well. So what you're saying does that up in that in 596 00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:20.239 that way I asked you about that Bischoff sit down. One I do want 597 00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:22.280 to ask you about Kevin before getting to the final days at WCW, was 598 00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:24.920 one you did with hul Cogan when he came back in two thousand. This 599 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:30.159 is right before the funb Vest wearing Hulk Hogan. You know that that wild 600 00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:35.039 period of his career where you're just wondering where are they going with this thing? 601 00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:37.199 But he sat down and gave you like a long involved interview about like 602 00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:42.159 where he saw WCW, where he saw himself evolving, and it was kind 603 00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:44.519 of a shoot deal. They did a version of it on Thunder too. 604 00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:47.440 I'm sure you probably tag teamed on that and got the interview there. Tell 605 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:52.320 me about your memories of that one last attempt to make Hulk Cogan and WCW 606 00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:55.920 work well. I mean, to me, it was pretty obvious that what 607 00:39:55.960 --> 00:40:01.960 they were going for was a stone cold Steve Ball absolutely sort of rebellious vibe, 608 00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:07.280 you know, with hal Cogan in that role, and it to me 609 00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.039 it was a square peg in a round hole like that's if there's anybody who's 610 00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:15.480 not that that character, it's it's hal Cogan. But he was even referring 611 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:17.079 to himself by his real name, you know. I think he did it 612 00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:22.039 in that interview as well. Absolutely, you know, like Terry Bolea, 613 00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.360 this new pissed off, you know, version of myself, and it was 614 00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:29.480 it was a complete shoot interview as much as one can be with Hogan because 615 00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:31.719 of course he's always in he's always in work mode on that you're not making 616 00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:36.280 these quotes up. You're sitting across from the man, right exactly. I'm 617 00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:39.000 we we sat down in his you know, I really felt special because I 618 00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:43.440 got to do it in his private dressing room, which was you know, 619 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.000 you probably heard those stories about how Halk had his own dressing room and it 620 00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:49.960 was kind of off limits, you know, nobody was allowing. What was 621 00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:51.960 it like in there. Did he have a nice fruit tray, like, 622 00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:53.800 give me, give me a vision. I don't work. You know, 623 00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:57.760 looking back, I don't really recall it being anything special. Okay, but 624 00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:00.880 yeah, he welcomed me in and closes the door and and uh and I 625 00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:04.280 said to him, you know, I kind of laid the groundwork for what 626 00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:07.599 I wanted it to be. That's not a in character interview that I wanted 627 00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:09.000 to be. You know, Shoot, this is where we're going with the 628 00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:14.840 magazine. This was really this was the first issue with me as the editor. 629 00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:16.280 And you know, the new Blood was on the cover, I believe, 630 00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:21.480 and we went so I explained to him that's that's the creative direction we 631 00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:22.199 want to go. And he's like, all right, brother. You know, 632 00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:24.800 he's like, I guarantee you there's nothing you can ask me I haven't 633 00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:29.280 been asked before. And about two questions in the interview, he said, 634 00:41:29.559 --> 00:41:34.519 wow, brother, nobody's ever asked a sudden Yeah. But it was It 635 00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.599 was great. He was very open and honest and and or at least as 636 00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:42.239 honest as again as hope it can be. But when I after the interview 637 00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:44.559 was done, I and even as it was going on, I was thinking 638 00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:51.039 he almost. He doesn't come off very likable in some instances, very braggadocious 639 00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:54.559 and sort of you know, talking talking down, which I guess maybe he 640 00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:58.559 thought he was in storyline. Yeah, he was leaning into like how Billy 641 00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:00.880 Kidman can't headlight a fleat stuff, remember that, And he was trying to 642 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.800 play up that he actually meant those things, when really it was clear that 643 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:07.039 they had decided to make that business by that point, right he talked about 644 00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:12.480 that and like Vampiro and all these guys like they're not ready to And again 645 00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:15.800 that was some storyline, but I also the whole storyline to me, and 646 00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:19.760 this is the larger This goes to. The larger issue is like who are 647 00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:22.760 the fans supposed to root for? Like you would think the up and coming 648 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:25.239 guys who supposedly, you know, haven't have been kept down, like you 649 00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:29.119 would think those are the baby faces, but they were portrayed as the heels. 650 00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:32.280 And you had the established guys. They even called them the Millionaires Club, 651 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:36.119 but they were portrayed as the baby faces. Well, I mean, 652 00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:37.960 does the average wrestling fan and want to cheer, like do you want it 653 00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:42.119 thrown in your face that these are the high paid guys who were holding under 654 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:45.960 their spots. The whole thing was this goes back to me, the Russo 655 00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:50.199 booking, and obviously Bischoff was signed off on it as well. But the 656 00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.800 whole new Blood thing I just thought was fraught with who are the good guys 657 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.320 here and who are the bad guys? When you met with Russo? Would 658 00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:59.639 you meet him in the office or on the road? It was in the 659 00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:01.760 office. It was always in the the office. Every so many days a 660 00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:06.039 week he did. Yeah, Vince was he was in the I don't know 661 00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:07.519 if it was five days a week. Obviously couldn't have been because of the 662 00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:10.559 TV, but yeah, he was in there on a regular basis. Did 663 00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:14.800 you ever ever observe his thing where like he enters the room and then Dylan 664 00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:19.840 and Sullivan walked that walk opposite ways, pretending they weren't conspiring to dethrone him. 665 00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:22.760 No, because when I started, Dylan and Sullivan were gone, I 666 00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:25.440 say, were no longer, they were no longer part of the company. 667 00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:30.840 And you know I did a Q and A with Russo where he was very 668 00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:35.239 open about that, and you know, buried Sullivan and Russeau was as guys 669 00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:37.559 that were, uh, you know, trying to undermine him and which I 670 00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:40.840 think, you know, I think there was some truth to that. Oh 671 00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:44.800 yeah, sure, I mean he he came, he came back after they 672 00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.440 sold Bill Bush on being the fixes and it was a disaster exactly, and 673 00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:52.360 then they tried to put a deal together and then they were sidelined to buying 674 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:53.199 the company. So yeah, I can see any and J. J. 675 00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:57.280 Jllen's come out with a book. It's all in there. But I'm gonna 676 00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.320 ask you, Kevin. I mean, let's let's get to it. We 677 00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:01.920 all must come to this point. We're talking about WCW. When did you 678 00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:07.239 find out for sure what was going to happen to WCW and what did you 679 00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:10.880 do and what was your reaction and any memories you have. I pretty much 680 00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:15.480 found out when everybody else did. I mean, the rumors were running rampant, 681 00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:19.840 and they were, you know, they were getting more and more to 682 00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:22.639 where we just we were just waiting for the other shoe to drop. And 683 00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:27.400 when it was announced the public announcement, the press release that went out that 684 00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:32.000 WWE or Vince McMahon had had bought WCW, I mean I didn't know for 685 00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:37.280 sure it was going to happen until until that announcement, we certainly thought it 686 00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.639 was going that way. But that's that's when we all found out. And 687 00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:45.679 you know, we we were all very I know I can speak for all 688 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:50.000 of us in the magazine, and we were not very optimistic about where things 689 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.400 were going to go for us after that. Sure, And I think it 690 00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.199 was two days before the final Nightro that it came out in the press and 691 00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:59.599 stuff that WWF was going to buy them going into Panama City. People knew 692 00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:00.800 it was w IF. A lot of people say, didn't believe until they 693 00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:04.400 saw Shane in the flesh. Did you get an email, a phone call, 694 00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:06.800 someone walking into the office, knock on your door? Do you remember 695 00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:12.559 how that Friday news reached your ears. I think we saw the like I 696 00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:17.760 think an inner office email was sent out. Sure, yeah, press release, 697 00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:21.920 I think, and you know that was sent out, and you know, 698 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:25.079 I think at that point, I think it was then told that you 699 00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:30.480 know, there was going to be a big meeting the following week. I 700 00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:35.679 guess after that nitro where it was going to be a meeting in the power 701 00:45:35.719 --> 00:45:38.360 plant which was on the ground, which was adjacent to the office where we 702 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:44.880 worked. Everybody there was an all employee meeting in the in the power plant, 703 00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:49.920 and representatives from ww were going to be there, which was I think 704 00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:53.719 it was basically some human resources people and that there would be more discussion there 705 00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:59.760 on what our futures were. And we were informed what our future was was 706 00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:02.840 that we were all being let go and that was the end of our employment. 707 00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:09.000 And you know, the WWHR people did have like a form you could 708 00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:15.639 fill out, so anybody interested in seeking an employment opportunity with ww fill out 709 00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:19.480 this form and tell us you know your job description and what you think your 710 00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:22.599 qualifications are, which you know, we went through the motions of doing that. 711 00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:25.800 I did. I filled one out, and you know, never heard 712 00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:31.440 anything. And I don't know of anyone aside from I don't know of anyone 713 00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:36.119 really from the office that got hired by w W as far as people that 714 00:46:36.199 --> 00:46:42.360 worked for like the magazine or PR or any of those departments marketing. But 715 00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:46.960 I do know that obviously some of the agents got jobs, Johnny Ace and 716 00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:52.079 and Arn Anderson and and you know, maybe some others other than those guys, 717 00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:57.880 I really don't recall anybody else getting a job. And you know, 718 00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:01.199 after that, it was just after the meeting was over, we went back 719 00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:07.760 to our offices and you know, had found that like we could no longer 720 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:10.960 access to you know, the computer, and we couldn't sign on, and 721 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:15.679 you know we'd already been They took us out of the system basically while this 722 00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:17.760 meeting was going on. And then you know, we had some time to 723 00:47:17.800 --> 00:47:23.559 clean out our desks and and we were escorted by security out of the building. 724 00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:27.400 And that was that you grab any souvenirs. I know, it was 725 00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:29.880 like, don't take anything, but some people took some stuff. Let's be 726 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:34.400 honest. You know, I think the only thing I did manage to grab 727 00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.800 one of the replica WCW title belts. Well, yeah, I think that 728 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:42.599 was really and you know stuff that I had had, you know, just 729 00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:45.480 working for the magazine that I had picked up here and there. You know, 730 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:50.239 one thing I took was Haul Cogan did a photo shoot where he was 731 00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:52.719 we did like and again this was before me, but we had done like 732 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:57.159 the top one hundred wrestlers of all time and Hogan was number one, and 733 00:47:57.199 --> 00:48:00.440 they did a photo shoot with him in like a tuxedo and I guess he 734 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:05.119 had ripped off the white shirt or whatever, and like our art director, 735 00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:07.960 I think at the time had like the shirt and he's like, here, 736 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:09.559 you want this, And so I had hault Cogan's you know, white shirt 737 00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:14.639 in my in my bottom drawer. So took that home as a collectible. 738 00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:19.679 There we go. That was That was pretty much it. He's a Lapsed 739 00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:34.599 Fan Wrestling Podcast with Jack n s and Jpi Soros A Lapsed Fan Wrestling Podcast. 740 00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:37.280 Were people so resigned that they weren't emotional or were people crying? What 741 00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:40.679 was the scene? Like? I saw some of the I saw some tears, 742 00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:45.639 and I think it was more from long term employees, people who had 743 00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:50.280 been there for a long time and you know, I people who you know, 744 00:48:50.280 --> 00:48:52.039 thought they worked there probably the rest of their lives. Like there was 745 00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:57.599 some crying there. I was sad about it because I thought, you know, 746 00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:00.840 this is my one opportunity as to work in the wrestling business, someone 747 00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:05.599 who had been a lifelong fan, and you know, the stream of getting 748 00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:08.039 to work for a major wrestling company, and I didn't really have any great 749 00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:13.199 hopes of WW taking that you know form that I filled out and calling me 750 00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:15.280 up. So I was sad in that respect of like, you know, 751 00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:20.519 I left a really good job at the Baltimore Sun, and I uprooted you 752 00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:22.880 know, my wife and I and to move to Atlanta. And it lasted 753 00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:25.760 a year and then what do I do now? Yeah, Wow, Johnny 754 00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:28.960 ash you mentioned, did you ever review him or work with him at all? 755 00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:31.760 Because Bitschoff kind of delegated quite a bit to him in those last like 756 00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:36.800 nine months or so. You know, at that time, I really didn't 757 00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:42.239 have a lot of one on one interaction with with Johnny. I didn't really 758 00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:45.920 know what to make of him. I had this reputation as being a you 759 00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:50.840 know, a good mind for the business with work he had done in for 760 00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:55.159 all Japan, and but I didn't really have any any specific interaction with him. 761 00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:59.079 It's funny because years later, when I was in w W on the 762 00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:06.239 creative team and and uh John Laurniitis was was there both with a you know, 763 00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:08.840 an executive role and an on air role. I've worked with him a 764 00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:13.760 lot more, especially you know, producing some of the backstage segments he was 765 00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:16.559 in and such. And I know a lot bad has come out about him 766 00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:20.800 recently, but Johnny was a great guy, you know, and like, 767 00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:22.719 look, I was never a talent, so I didn't have to deal with 768 00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:27.880 him. When he was head of talent relations. You know, there's there's 769 00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:30.159 a lot of speculation about how he you know, dealt with people, behind 770 00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:34.440 the scenes, whatever. But I could tell you working with him when he 771 00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:37.960 was a talent and I had to produce him, he was very easy to 772 00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:42.079 work with and always very nice. Now maybe he was phony, and maybe 773 00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:44.840 he'd be shaking your hand and smiling at you with one hand and stabbing in 774 00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.480 the back of the other. I don't know, but I felt very funny. 775 00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:51.119 He's a funny guy, charming guy, easy to work with. Did 776 00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:53.559 you go to the Final nightro Kevin? I did? I did. I 777 00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:58.719 went to that Final nightro and you know, it was it was surreal. 778 00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:01.800 I mean everything you've probably heard about it from you know, Shane McMahon and 779 00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:07.440 Bruce Pritchard showing up backstage and and nobody really knew. No one knew anything. 780 00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:12.559 I mean, we had we had heard all the speculation that as a 781 00:51:12.639 --> 00:51:15.320 shoot, that they were going to run it as a separate company. They 782 00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:20.639 were going to put Shane McMahon in charge for real, not just storyline, 783 00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:23.119 and it was going to be a separate company from from w B. And 784 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:27.559 I think that was kind of pie in the sky thinking like I mean, 785 00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:30.440 when you look back on it, that that was obviously never going to happen. 786 00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:35.039 But you know, sitting there watching it, we didn't know exactly what 787 00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:37.519 was going to happen. At the end. I wasn't privy to the script 788 00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:43.039 that night. I didn't know where it was going. But when Shane walked 789 00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:45.440 out and you know, the name on the bottom is McMahon, but it's 790 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:50.440 Shane McMahon on the bottom of the contract, and we were almost like caught 791 00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:52.199 up in it, like, hey, maybe this is really gonna happen, 792 00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:57.119 Like maybe Shane will be our new boss, but obviously it was it was 793 00:51:57.159 --> 00:52:00.480 not to be. Are you shouldered to shoulder with talent with a people at 794 00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:02.880 the magazine with lighting riggers? I don't know, how are you taking this 795 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.639 in in front of the people I was watching? Yeah, I was watching 796 00:52:06.639 --> 00:52:09.639 it with other WCW employees. But then I was you know, obviously I 797 00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:13.320 went backstage right after it was over, and you know, there was a 798 00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:16.360 lot of uncertainty with people I remember talking to, like you know, Shannon 799 00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:21.480 Moore who was part of three count and like he was one of the people 800 00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:24.119 who was like very uncertain, like what's going to be next for him? 801 00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:29.960 Now, certain other people already knew Booker t already knew he was going to 802 00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:31.840 ww and he was happy about it, right, So there it was. 803 00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:36.159 It was a lot of different emotions depending on where you were. Did you 804 00:52:36.199 --> 00:52:38.519 know only in retrospect, Kevin, that Booker knew or did Booker say it 805 00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:44.360 that night? And that's a good question. And and to be honest, 806 00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:49.920 I don't recall. I can't remember if we had heard certain guys were going 807 00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:53.679 to be taken, but and I do know a guy like Diamond Dallas Page 808 00:52:55.119 --> 00:52:59.760 was he was one of the bigger names who was concerned about what happens next 809 00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:02.360 because I know he really wanted to go to w WD, but he had 810 00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:10.519 not really gotten any like yeah, yeah said nobody really said, hey man, 811 00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:14.880 you're you're you're factored into this when when when when we get going? 812 00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:17.599 So I know he was, he was, you know, pushing hard to 813 00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:22.039 try to get him with Shane. Oh yeah, I can see him lobbying 814 00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:24.079 like you would like literally going up to Shane at the show. You mean, 815 00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:28.079 yeah, yeah, And I love Dallas you know, of course, 816 00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:30.519 yeah, yeah, he was, you know, and you think about it, 817 00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:34.119 you know, he he had gotten to the top in in w c 818 00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:36.519 W, and you know, he was had friends in the right places, 819 00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:39.480 especially with a guy like Eric Bischoff, and now all that's over, and 820 00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:43.039 he didn't know what w W really thought of him, you know, And 821 00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:45.639 I think we found out later they really probably based on the way they used 822 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:49.440 him when they brought him in, didn't see Dallas as the main event guy. 823 00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.519 So, yeah, did you feel like you had a job to do 824 00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:55.039 that night or was the magazine? I obviously, you know the magazine was 825 00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:58.920 was History, but I don't know that it's still published, I think a 826 00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:01.639 month after the company closed. But were you not working at all that night? 827 00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:07.199 How did that mentality go? We weren't really working that night, per 828 00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:09.679 se. I mean we were just there, I think, pretty much taking 829 00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:15.519 in the show. And you know, the final the final issue was was 830 00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:19.440 already planned, and you know the thing was again with the company being so 831 00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:22.760 up in the air, we really had to you know, kind of be 832 00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:27.559 almost generic in in what we were writing at that point because nobody knew what 833 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:30.840 was happening. Oh really, I remember his DDP on the cover of the 834 00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:32.679 last one. I think you hit the I remember hit the newstands like in 835 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:37.639 almost like May. It was like, oh yeah, there's still some some 836 00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:42.239 fumes left of WSW. Yeah DDP. That's the answer to the trivia question. 837 00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:45.159 He was on the on the final h on the final cover. I 838 00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:49.719 think we had an article on Shane Helms at that point, and I don't 839 00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:52.360 really remember what else was in that that issue of the magazine. It's all 840 00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:54.480 kind of a blur at this point. What did you do after the final 841 00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:58.679 Nitro said you goodbyes and just got on a plane or what do you remember 842 00:54:58.719 --> 00:55:02.519 about the night of after the show wrapped. What I really recall is, 843 00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:05.840 you know, kind of like what I said earlier, was just this feeling 844 00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:07.559 of, you know, with a lot of the talent, like what's going 845 00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.760 to happen next? And some people concerned. You know. What's funny is 846 00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:15.679 road Dog Brian James showed up that night. I remember hearing this, Yes, 847 00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:20.000 yeah, there there was road Dog and he was talking with people. 848 00:55:20.039 --> 00:55:22.920 So I think, you know, if w CW, I think he was 849 00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:25.840 looking for a job, you know, is there a new opportunity because he 850 00:55:25.880 --> 00:55:30.280 was a free agent at that point. I remember him being there and just 851 00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:35.599 I just really remember what the conversation that really stuck out with me was just 852 00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:38.199 Shannon Moore, you know, saying, you know, this is sad and 853 00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:40.840 like, I don't know what's going to happen, you know. And I 854 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:44.920 think if I recall, he was one of the guys, wasn't he that 855 00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:46.760 ended up? Wasn't he part of that initial groups that got a job? 856 00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:50.800 I don't know. I honestly, I think they sent him to the Heartland 857 00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:54.480 Wrestling Association, but he wasn't in that group of an initial invaders. But 858 00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:58.679 then then he came in later because Shane came over, and then you know, 859 00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:02.360 their buddies. But do you remember this, Kevin. Some people have 860 00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:05.920 talked about it that you know, this is wrestling, so who knows. 861 00:56:05.960 --> 00:56:09.480 But this scuttle butt that like someone might have been considering rushing the ring when 862 00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:15.719 Shane got in the ring and tackling him. I had not heard that. 863 00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:20.199 Damn it. That sounded like some great wrestling lore right there. That's great. 864 00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:22.280 Yeah, I think it was a Jeremy Borash said it on a ww 865 00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:27.639 untold documentary about the final Night of Nitro. He was talking to said talent, 866 00:56:27.679 --> 00:56:30.719 of course, didn't name said talent, and said talent thought the better 867 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:34.800 of it at the last minute, but that would have been legendary. Wow, 868 00:56:34.840 --> 00:56:37.440 I'd love to know who said talent was Yes, I know, well 869 00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:39.320 your a much better position, perhaps than I am to get the answer. 870 00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:45.320 Maybe not, but I figured i'd plant the seed. This is a minor 871 00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:47.239 thing, but I don't know. Maybe it wasn't because one of the things 872 00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:52.920 to me that was always the harbinger of WCW jumping the shark or taking a 873 00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:57.480 turn or making a misfire under siege from the WWF was the redesign of the 874 00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:00.880 logo in April nineteen ninety nine, go into that grating. Yeah, that 875 00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.679 gray, sort of star shaped. I don't even know what you want to 876 00:57:04.679 --> 00:57:06.559 call it. I mean, there's a million things you could call it. 877 00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:08.760 And I noticed that towards the end of the magazine, you guys used sort 878 00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:14.000 of like a generic red WCW typeface. You didn't use the company logo. 879 00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:16.400 And I also noticed in the aforementioned Big Bang ad, and you know, 880 00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:20.920 all that says about what could have been the WCW is much different. It's 881 00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:23.440 a different look to the typeface of the logo. Now, was that something 882 00:57:23.480 --> 00:57:27.159 where it's like this is going to be the new WCW logo and we're leaving 883 00:57:27.159 --> 00:57:30.840 behind the nineteen ninety nine one. Do you remember anything about that? I 884 00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:35.559 just remember when that logo came out, that the star one that I think 885 00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:38.280 it was universally panned. I mean, I think I don't know how anyone 886 00:57:38.320 --> 00:57:42.079 could objectively have looked at that and signed off on it and thought that was 887 00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:49.840 good. So when I got to the magazine we started, initially the magazine 888 00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:52.960 was using that star logo because it was the company logo, but in the 889 00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:57.880 art direct time it was it was a brilliant guy named Jim Schlotman. He 890 00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:00.199 had talked with Ken Laker, the publisher, about, Man, this this 891 00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:04.000 logo sucks, like this is horrible, and it's not good enough for the 892 00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:07.960 company's own magazine. Not good enough for the company's own magazine. So Ken 893 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:09.800 was like, well, Jim, why don't you create one and we'll use 894 00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:15.400 that as the WCW magazine logo. So that was sort of the red one 895 00:58:15.039 --> 00:58:19.199 that that he that we came up with for the magazine. Slotman came up 896 00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:22.760 with that and and we just we just I don't think we even asked permission, 897 00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:25.159 is my recollection. We just decided that's gonna be We're getting rid of 898 00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:29.639 the star thing and we're gonna put this because that thing's hideous. We're gonna 899 00:58:29.639 --> 00:58:32.199 put this as the magazine logo. And if you if you'll notice, I 900 00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:37.719 think from there on, different like that logo started appearing on other things, 901 00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:40.159 like even on TV they would show like the w CW magazine logo. So 902 00:58:40.239 --> 00:58:44.440 I think at some point, I guess it was it was acknowledged that that 903 00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:49.159 star logo really didn't work, and the magazine logo started getting used. Amazing, 904 00:58:49.239 --> 00:58:52.599 and anything about the change in the Big Bang logo and the appearance of 905 00:58:52.639 --> 00:58:57.119 the WHW in that, No, I don't remember anything about that specifically. 906 00:58:57.159 --> 00:59:00.480 I just think that was probably you know, Bischoff and if you probably branding 907 00:59:00.679 --> 00:59:05.360 coming up with their own logo for this for because that wouldn't have been your 908 00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:07.239 call, right, I mean, that was just an ad delivered to you, 909 00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:10.719 Yeah, exactly. I was just an ad delivered that we put on 910 00:59:10.760 --> 00:59:13.800 the back of the magazine. That was. That was nothing we had any 911 00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:16.400 involvement in. Did you ever try to interview Brian Badal or anybody from the 912 00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:23.519 Fusian side. I didn't. I think, you know, we we had 913 00:59:23.679 --> 00:59:28.480 Eric, and Eric talked about Brian Badal about being his partner and how it's 914 00:59:28.519 --> 00:59:31.920 going to be this great partnership. But we never had access to to Brian, 915 00:59:32.199 --> 00:59:36.920 nor did did I ask for it at that point. And now you 916 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:38.719 came in sort of before the goose had been cooked, as it regards AO 917 00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:42.320 all time Warner, So you would have never seen or had a reason interact 918 00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:45.800 with Ted Turner. I take it, no, no, And and look 919 00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:51.639 when I got there, Ted Turner was not involved at all, right and 920 00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:53.960 right, and and then that was another you know, when you're talking about 921 00:59:53.960 --> 00:59:58.760 who killed WCW. That's that's a big factor that a lot of people talked 922 00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:02.079 about at the time and probably since, is that Ted loved his wrestling, 923 01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:07.199 and you know, it was a big staple of the superstation, and people 924 01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:12.280 had always said, as long as Ted had any power, WCW was never 925 01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:15.880 going anywhere. But with all these mergers, even though it had the Turner 926 01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:22.039 name on it, Ted did not have any real power, so there was 927 01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:27.480 nothing he could do even if he wanted to to save WCW. Well, 928 01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:30.400 it's only fair, Kevin Eck, that we ask you the same question we've 929 01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:32.360 asked all the other guests we've had on these companion pods to the Who Killed 930 01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:37.239 WCW series? It is the question, and I'm interested in you're off the 931 01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:42.880 top response like a rorshock test almost who killed WCW. I mean, this 932 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:45.559 is probably the stock answer, but you know, at the end of the 933 01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:49.840 day, it was it was Jamie Kellner, you know, the executive who 934 01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:55.719 decided that you know, TBS and TNT they no longer wanted WCW programming because 935 01:00:55.960 --> 01:01:00.280 you know, once there was no TV, you know, Bischoff and fu 936 01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:05.559 shit, they had no they had no product without TV. So that was 937 01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:07.920 the death knell is they don't have any TV. They have no place to 938 01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:12.639 put their product. There was no time together, no time to put together 939 01:01:12.679 --> 01:01:19.360 a new TV deal. Ultimately, Jamie Kellner pulled the plug. But let's 940 01:01:19.360 --> 01:01:22.119 be honest, the company was on life support at that point, and and 941 01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:28.400 there's plenty of blame to go around. You know, I don't believe Vince 942 01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:34.199 Russo killed w CW on his own, but he certainly helped speed up their 943 01:01:34.239 --> 01:01:37.400 death. I think with his horrible booking and and people just turning out and 944 01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:42.440 droves, I don't think that helped things. But then again, you know, 945 01:01:42.679 --> 01:01:46.679 Kevin Sullivan's booking before that didn't do a lot either, so uh, 946 01:01:46.760 --> 01:01:52.920 it was dying anyway. And look, if Jamie Kellner hadn't canceled the programming, 947 01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:59.559 you know, could could WCW have have made it under bischoffmntution Maybe I 948 01:01:59.599 --> 01:02:04.679 think they had a chance, maybe not. You know, there was some 949 01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:08.599 discussion too, like internally we talked about it, like does w does the 950 01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:15.280 world really need two wrestling companies? WWE had become so popular and the industry 951 01:02:15.360 --> 01:02:19.559 standard, and it was like, well, does there have to be a 952 01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:22.480 number two? Who says there has to be? And maybe there doesn't need 953 01:02:22.519 --> 01:02:28.440 to be, you know, and we also felt maybe there just isn't a 954 01:02:28.519 --> 01:02:31.119 need for it. You know, people have made their choice and it's WWE. 955 01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:35.280 Indeed, Well, kevinac thank you so much for joining us. He 956 01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:39.159 was the editor of WCW magazine in its final days from March two thousand until 957 01:02:39.159 --> 01:02:42.360 the very end of the company, and in fact in attendance, as we 958 01:02:42.480 --> 01:02:45.960 learned today on the final episode of Monday Nitro. It was great to get 959 01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:47.280 to know you, Kevin, and thank you so much for the reflections. 960 01:02:47.360 --> 01:02:52.119 It was tremendous stuff. I appreciate the invite, like I said, and 961 01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:54.159 it was. It was fun to reflect on the you know, some stuff 962 01:02:54.159 --> 01:02:58.239 I haven't really thought about in twenty five years. Maybe it's for the best, 963 01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:02.760 Yes, definitely for the best. Where is the Succeeding Preceedings is a 964 01:03:02.800 --> 01:03:09.280 production of the LAPS Entertainment Group. Its content is intended for private use only. 965 01:03:12.599 --> 01:03:13.800 We want to want s