Hello, everyone, Welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knocks. This is
Adam Frommel here with my fantastic co host Dan fa Valley. We are coming
to you live on Locker Room right after the end of Game four in the
Atlanta Hawks New York Knicks series, which ended in a one thirteen ninety six
victory for the Hawks to take a three one series lead. And fittingly,
I am wearing my Hawks hat and I old throwback Josh Smith jersey, just
to rub it in a little bit more to Dan, so so it makes
sense that it's a Josh Smith jersey. That sounds about right. I am
exhausted, as you were telling me, I sounded like before we started,
but I'm parking up as the caffeine starts coursing through my veins as we speak.
How are you doing. I'm good. I'm just sure. I've spent
three hours playing racquetball yesterday and then built a sandbox for my kid afterwards,
and I'm just not used to doing that much physical stuff in one day after
all of the pandemic stuff for the last year plus, so I feel like
every part of my body is sore now. Well, how about the Kavs
and quads. Everything's okay with those? Oh those are fine? All right?
Those are fine, Yeah, except they're like they're not cool. Look,
ND talks though before we get into a bunch of mail back questions that
we have, and if anyone wants to ask questions live, we welcome it
obviously. As always, thoughts over sounds over. I think it's over.
I felt like I switched my pick from the Knicks of the Hawks after the
Knicks won Game two, just because it felt like the Hawks offensive process was
so solid, even if it wasn't yielding made shots. Ultimately, the team
was getting wide open catch and shoot jumpers from the right shooters. They just
weren't falling. But it seemed like the Hawks had made the strategic adjustments and
just were the better team in that series. And it's only been validated in
Games three and four, and maybe the Knicks will win one more. But
I don't think this is going beyond six games. Yeah, I did have
Hawks and seven. It's looking drastically more like it's not going to be Hawks
and seven. It'll be Hawks in five or six. I think one the
Hawks defense, un realize Randol has been pretty good even as these forcing things
They've put two bodies in front of him and made it where he come from.
Yeah. Look, even John Collins has had like really good moments against
him, and not that I know Collins been better defensively this year, but
I thought Julius Randol was going to be the single hardest matchup for the Hawks
to cover, and he has not been. He's made some pretty terrible decisions
though. I think the Knicks needed this though, And I'm not excited or
anxious, but we need to have some tough conversations and have some tough questions
about the Knicks moving forward after this season. Because this was fun, it
was fantastic, it was unexpected, it was a pleasant surprise. What is
sustainable about it moving forward? And I think Game four was an excellent reminder
that RJ. Barrett is the single most important New York Nick in the big
picture. That is your path to having maybe a great player sustainably being the
best player on a really good team. It's not Julius Randall. Maybe he
could be that for a little bit. And we did talk. We've said
if you want to sign a new extension, we get it. There needs
to be another element there, and yeah, there needs to be some more
MF and three point shooters on this team knocked down three point shooters. Well,
let's not wait until after the season ends to talk about those tough questions.
Let's just start with one right now, Like, has this series changed
your thinking about Julius Randall's long term home in New York? Or is that
just too much of an overreaction to what's currently a four game sample at this
point. Yeah, so it has not changed how I feel about Julius Randall.
I think for the team as it should. They don't like talking about
not that I don't like talking about what players are worth wherever they can get.
You don't go into this thinking we need to max out Julius Randa twenty
two, giving him the seven year to nine year player max if you can
still get him. I think we talked about between twenty and twenty five million
a year. I don't think it's completely unreasonable, But now you've seen it
like, this isn't going to be the number one option on whatever the next
great version of the Knicks is. And so if you don't think that you
have that in RJ. Barrett and I think they might. It's still too
early to say that there needs to be more help around him, and we're
talking more than peak whatever RJ. Barrett is, it's probably two more guys,
and so I think it changes the calculus of how you're going to build
around him. But I'm I don't look at this as a discredit to what
he's done all season, and I'm also willing to give guys more leeway when
it's their first postseason trip. I think that it deserves to have a learned
and he look, he is the focus of the defense. That's been pretty
clear too with the Hawks. Oh, it's been very clear, and it's
really been shocking because going into this series, I really thought the Hawks defensive
strategy would be kind of like that circa ten Dwight Howard Orlando Magic era,
where you're just gonna let Julius Randall get whatever he wants and if he puts
up forty and fifteen on a nightly basis, so be it, because you're
gonna shut down everyone else. And that just hasn't been the approach, and
yet he's still been neutralized. I just I didn't see that strategy coming into
this series because I didn't think the Hawks had the personnel to shut Randall down.
So it's just it's strange. I'm one hundred percent with everything you said
there, and I'm going to be interested to see just what, if any
adjustments the Knicks are able to make in game fives to prolong this. It's
not out of the question that they could win. It be seeing them already
though. Go to Reggie bullockmore on Trey Young, and he did a good
job on Trey Young for a lot of the game. They forced the ball
out of his hands. But when you have other shop makers like a Bogie
to help you or Delan Are, he's gonna do a little bit better.
That's just absolutely monstrous for them. And this Knicks team feels like it's one
really good creator and then probably another shooter short of if they actually want to
be something. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I did also want
to go where Noah Otage in the chat just went. Which is the good
thing about this series is that we've seen Topping in quickly the extremely solid given
the circumstances. Topping for me has been one of the few positive takeaways from
the Knicks during this series so far. I was really high on him coming
into the draft. I thought that he would be the first All Star from
this class, which obviously has not panned out well during the regular season,
but this is the version I was expecting to see, that high energy,
rim attacking nightmare matchup for a defense, and albeit in limited minutes, he's
been really fun and I'm hoping that this allows him to carve out a larger
role than we could have expected following the regular season. It's probably has something
to do with Tom Thibodeau and notoriously not liking to play rookies for big minutes.
We've seen that at every stop throughout his career, so in hindsight,
it probably isn't too surprising that he didn't have a huge role during the regular
season, but just maximizing his output during this limited run that he's received in
the playoffs, that's huge and I think that it matters for his long term
value. Has your thinking on top and change at all by thinking on Obie
Top and has not changed at all because he is not tires f and Haliburton,
and that makes me sad. I am with you. Though he's been
a lot better in the small minutes, I'm going to be very interesting what
his offensive development, excuse me, defensive development looks like, are you going
to be the way he's moved at points? I'm now wondering can you steal
minutes with him at center, which is going to be huge because he's been
kind of all over the place around the basket offensively, There's a lot of
things he can do, giving you hustle on the second chance opportunities. We
know that he has the range, and I think what he flashed from day
one, even though it wasn't stringing together in these huge stretches or for long
stretches. He can put the ball on the floor. He can make some
really nifty passes. And so as disappointed as I was that he wasn't Tyrese
Haliburton and just made that joke before, I think there's a really good basketball
player there. I don't think it's going to be quite or even necessarily close
to as good as Tyris Haliburton is, or let's say a comprehensive player,
if that makes more sense, but they have something there. Can you get
to a point though, where he and Julius Randall are on the court together
or is that only going to be able to happen against bench heavy units or
can that be a go to lineup, I think, because you could do
it against backups if you're more inclined to do you know, I would like
to see the mix play Julius Randol at the five and maybe actually for once
in their freaking lives, attack Tray Young on defense. Give it a try
perhaps, but long term can that be sort of a go to front court?
And at this point, given that much Randall's improved on defense, I
think it's up to top and that you could say, maybe they can be
That's what I was going to say. I think there's enough offensive optionality there
with the two of them, given both of their ball handling abilities, that
you could probably get away with it in shorter spurts because of Randall's defensive improvement,
but it probably should not be a line up staple. I don't think
you're ever looking at Randall and Toppen in the starting five together so much as
like mixing and matching the pieces, which is which is fair enough, but
that's also not ideal because Randall's going to play how many minutes moving forward,
that's going to cap what you can do with Obie Toppin. So one of
them needs to be able to play the five. If Obie Toppin is going
to have a real chance at at developing over the next year, two years,
three years. As you're thinking about frank Nilikina changed at all during this
series. Look, all I'm gonna say is if you're making these defensive substitutions
to play him like five seconds when he's been sitting on the bench called all
game, then maybe it's time to just give him some regular rotation minutes to
see what happens. I said, I don't know that he could do a
much better job against Trey Young than Reggie Bullock has where at least looking at
Bullock chasing Trey Young when he's away from the ball. Kudos to the Hoffs,
by the way, for going into those situations where you have Bogie on
the ball more make Trey Young get off of it, take Bullock out of
a lot of the actions, or maybe trying to get some screen separation there.
I will still ride or die with Frankie Smokes. I think there's a
good basketball player in there, and that the Knicks have botched his development under
however many different coaches he's had. At this point, I think it's four
so I don't want to see him leave New York. Selfishly, the next
team he ends up with, whoever signs him this summer, I think,
is going to get a nice little diamond in the rough. I'm already planning
on buying you a jersey of whichever team he goes to, assuming that he
does go elsewhere, which kind of seems like a foregone conclusion at this point.
I'm just gonna say that team is gonna win the off season, and
fair enough. Fair enough. The last thing I wanted to ask you about
this series before we move into the mailbag is the Hawks. It feels like
a lot has clicked for Trey Young. You know, he had a tendency
to put up ill advised shots even during this regular season and kind of force
his offensive game. As talented as he is, it feels like everything's coming
in the flow of the offense now and he's still just putting up gigantic numbers
while making those around him better. And the Hawks as a whole have really
coalesced around him, especially now that all of the pieces are healthy. Like
this is the version of the Hawks we were expecting to see going into the
beginning of this season that we were not able to see because of the steady
stream of injuries. You know, granted Camraddish is still not available. DeAndre
Hunter is still working his way into a rhythm. But this is pretty good
in Game four though he did he did. This is the team that we
expected to see. Do you give them any chance against Philly in the next
round, assuming that they do close out against the Knicks. Look, I
think the Knicks are probably making a little bit easier on them on defense.
But if they're going to defend like this, hell, yeah, I don't
know what their answer is. And you could say this for pretty much the
entire MBA. What the answer is for Joel Embiide And if you're able to
have Ben Simmons, if they really want to have him go after Trey Young,
they can. They have matistible that could do it too, They have
any green that could do it. They have a lot more options to go
in those matchups. I don't want to say it won't give them a chance.
That's a series right now. I'd probably pick Hilate to win in five
or six. I would give them a twenty to twenty five percent chance of
winning. Do you differ from me at all? And what is what happens
the Hawks win that series if what. I don't know that I have an
answer to that question, because I think I'm more pessimistic about Atlanta's chances in
that potential series. There's just too many pieces Philadelphia has at its disposal to
throw at Trey that can disrupt the entire offense. So I guess you're looking
at a situation where like Kevin Herder and Lou Williams are just on fire for
an entire series, because you need the second unit to be able to win
those minutes definitively, because I don't see how the Atlanta starting five is going
to keep pace with the seventy six ers when you can throw all of those
bodies at tray On. I think I would have I would have said more
like ten to fifteen percent. Maybe I'm too high. I'm look, I'm
watching the Hawks just absolutely slaughter my Knicks. I might be pretty high on
them at the moment. The we do have a Hawks question, but we
did have a question in the chat from Shravad asking you want to talk about
playoff Jay? Do you want to? Yeah? Sure, why not?
Let's playoff Jay? Is It couldn't text he could playoff Jay be John Morant
or is you know is this Jason Tatum? Who is playoff Jay? I
was deferring to you because I wasn't sure. I was assuming it was Jason
Tatum. I was also thinking it was Julius. Oh, that's it's pandemic
Jay. There shan On, So I guess we can skip over. Look,
John Rand has been impressive during his first three career playoff games. Just
to save face here, no, don't apologize, but that was I was
wondering if I missed something that was going around. I like that we both
wanted the other person to talk because we weren't quite sure what it meant.
I will throw this quickly about John Rand before we get there's a we have
a great question about John Collins from the mail bag. But John Rand one
hundred and one points in his first three playoff games, joining quite the company.
George Miken, Kareem Abdul Jabarn, Wilt Chamberlin, that's not a bad
bad trio to latch yourself onto. I will say, are you surprised Kareem
did that last in nineteen seventy? Are you surprised it hasn't happened since then?
I was given this note at which these offensive records have been broken,
and the frequency with which players take threes. I think I'm a little surprised
there hasn't been like a one off one. But this feels like the first
season where because of the ten team structure and everything, where the young guns
are really able to thrive in these first round playoff series because they've been playing
higher level games for a little while longer. It feels like the balance of
power has shifted a little bit where there's not just that overwhelming super team right
now that there has been in the past. So like typically you're looking at
a John Morant or Adjason Tatum or a Trey Young who is being asked to
play like the Warriors in the first round and that's just not going to go
well. So I think the circumstances have aligned to produce this where the game
is faster than ever, offensive offense is dominating more than it has in a
long time, and there's also not that young guy versus established juggernaut series right
now. But the thing is Jahmran is doing this against the best defense in
the NBA, and yo, that that happened, Like that's the I don't
know's I'm a little bit surprised that it's this is the first time it's happened
in so long. I'm a little surprised. I'm actually probably mega surprised,
and I have to be more surprised than you on this. We have a
question about your boy, though, John Collins, from Jacob Bourne, friend
of the podcast. Who should John Collins? Who should want John Collins this
summer slash? Where should he want to go? Now? I want you,
I want you to leave this and I'm gonna throw I think this number
is important because this is the number he's going to get given how poor the
free agent market is. His max salary starts at twenty eight point one million
dollars next year. He's going to get that money. I will be Maybe
there's a five year wink wink deal with the Hawks where he's taking a little
less to get that fifth year, and maybe they give him a player option
as part of it. Otherwise he's getting twenty eight point one million dollars in
twenty one twenty two. Do you disagree with that? No, I don't
disagree. I mean, I think you're looking at one of the teams that's
going to have cap space, because I get the sense that if he does
leave, and I don't want to rule out the possibility that he does stay,
especially if Atlanta is competitive against Philadelphia in the second round series again,
assuming they're able to close out the Knicks. I think that he would want
an opportunity to actually be a featured player, because that's been the biggest concern
in Atlanta, is that there just haven't been enough touches to go around.
He was more involved in the offense earlier in his still young career, so
I wouldn't be surprised to see him like sign a big deal with like the
Detroit Pistons or the San Antonio Spurs. The landing spot I really like for
him though, is Minnesota. It probably have to be done by a sign
and trade, but I like the idea of just continuing to lead into an
all out offensive explosion there. If we add video and everyone get you're making
a disgusted face, you should probably screenshot it so that we could use as
reactively. That is a terrible fit for him. I know they defended better
what we are, but you want to be a featured options. That put
him a lot on Anti Edwards Towns and Dad the Russell right. That doesn't
quite align with that that first part of the thinking. But that's going to
be a location where he's going to get to run and get to put up
shots because there's so much offensive attention elsewhere, and it's going to be a
competitive team on the rise. I agree that he might want a larger offensive
role. And we didn't even see the full breadth of the Hawks this year
because of all the injuries. DeAndre Hunter was a pretty big part of the
offense. When he was injured, he was probably there, not their best,
but definitely the most consistent player at that time. He was People don't
remember this. We've been trolled or I've controlled by our listeners for mentioning this.
He was leading the most improved player discussion when he was injured, or
he was at least among the top three, and I know that was super
early on. I think if he's going to leave, it needs to be
a sign and trade, because if I'm the Hawks, I'm not losing him
for nothing. If you go and sign a max offer sheet with whoever,
Okay, great, we're just gonna match it and we'll figure it out from
there, I'd be And if you're gonna keep him, i'd be. You
know then you're gonna look at having to move Gallow or something because there's just
given out. Well, Clint Capella has played if you care about on Yeko
Kong Wu at all, that's just those four guys. Long term, I
don't think it sticks like that, and you do have to start worrying about
playing. Trey Young's extension eligible. DeAndre Hunter is gonna be extension eliable the
year for that, Cam Reddish as well. You still have Bogie on the
books for three years. Clint Capella is going to need a new deal soon,
so I'm not ruling out and return to Atlanta. That's probably the most
likely scenario, just because it's restricted free agency, so he might sign an
offer sheet. They're gonna say, hey, you want Max, go find
Max and they'll match it. If he wants to leave, it behooves him
to work with the team and see if he can broker a sign and trade
the places I like for him. San Antonio would be interesting. He doesn't
feel like a Spurs player. I'd really like him there. I would love
And they'll never do this because they won't burn their tap space, but the
thunder would be fun as hell. Him and Shake gilchis Alexander's short of their
one two punch, but they're not gonna want to pay. It seems that
you're early for that. Yeah. I struggle to find landing spots for him.
I know people are gonna mention and they can get to the cap space
necessary Dallas. But unless the Hawks want Christops, Porzingis is part of a
sign and trade and they shouldn't. Let's just make that clear. I don't
you know, I don't like the Christops John Collins fit. There's questions with
you know, Christops won't hurt your defense, but they are nights where he's
not going to augment it, and you play him next to John Collins,
who is not Maxi Kleiba in the sense that you can say, hey,
go defend Kauai. That's going to complicate matters a little bit. But you're
right, there's you know, there's not teams. We're looking at cap space.
Miami would be kind of interesting. Do you like him in BAM together
up front? Yeah, I think it's a pairing that makes sense. I
just don't really see it happening. If that's one place where if he were
to sign an offer sheet, Atlanta would match for sure, because you don't
want to be playing against him more frequently. I have one more team as
well, and I'll mention another team. The Knicks have I think the second
most cap space behind the depending on what they do with their own guys,
obviously behind the Thunder and maybe behind the Spurs. At this point, that
just doesn't work. We're talking about like Topping and Randa, Like the John
Collins Randa thing is not going to be much better defensively. They could if
if they don't keep Kyle Lowry, Toronto's pretty pascal John Collins in the front
court with little Chris Boucher. It's a three man rotation right there. Ken
Birch probably comes back. I mean sure, I just I don't know.
For some reason, I just don't love that one. Why I need a
reason, I can't really come up with it. I just I think that
you're too far away from having the five, a legitimate five who can play
big minutes. There. You're fully committing to small ball, and I'm not
sure that that's going to make as much sense if we're talking about a post
Kyle Hour, post Kyle Lowry era. I guess it just feels like they
could come up with a platoon center guarding, because I think it's more of
a problem defensively clearly between Siakam, John Collins, Bouche. If you bring
back Birch, you've had Og guard a ton of fives. Anyway, I
feel like it would work pretty well. I've realized, having spent way too
much time thinking about John Collins, that I very much enjoy watching him play
and think that he is a legitimate high upside talent, and at the same
time, I don't love his fit in that many places. He is one
of those players. Yeah, that's a good point. It's it's a really
strange conundrum because he is a three point shooting big who has shown that he
has like some defensive chops in the past. He's a high energy player,
but he doesn't make that sense. He doesn't make much sense in that many
locations. It's like a healthy Kevin Love situation, where still a really good
basketball player, different players want to make that clear, Kevin loves a much
better pass or it can create more of his own offense from the post.
But where with Kevin Love fit we tell everyone's saying the Cats have to trade
him, they have to trade him, And when you're throwing. If it's
John Collins on a rookie scale dealsolutely right, what are you talking about?
John cons on a max contract. That's where the Kevin Love equation comes.
And maybe it's just that he might be one of those guys like earlier career
Kevin Love, where he really just is best putting up big numbers on mediocre
teams. And that's okay, Like there have been plenty of those guys in
the past and they're super fun. But that might be who he is.
Your official prediction would be, I think he's staying in Atlanta. Yeah,
this the front office committed so much this past offseason. I don't think it
saw during the regular season at least what that team could be. And there
is an opportunity to keep it together, do you see it? They would
have to view him as someone who can play the five or think they could
plug the five cheaply. The Hornets would probably be a dark horse to go
after him, and him and Lamela Ball would be really fun. It's just
him and PJ. Washington is a front court on offense a ton of fun
too. But I don't know what. I don't know what happens. Can
you get a center on the cheap though, because there are sometimes you find
diamonds of the rough, but you don't want to get to a point where
you're it would be iffy. But I think they're a dark horse to go
after him because they're gonna have cap space and it's the Michael Jordan controlled Hornets,
and they are a wild card in the off season, I think,
to say the least, did you we have another playoff question from Kane Horneck,
Who's going to win a Buck's Net series? I'm still picking the Bucks.
I mean, the level at which Drew Holiday in particular is playing right
now gives me even more confidence. The loss of Dante de Vincenzo is a
big deal because that takes away one of the guys you were going to use.
It's what, okay, you're right, never mind, I take that
back, go ahead, Yeah, I mean it takes away one of the
options that you were going to use to guard Kyrie Irving and James Harden,
and ultimately you have to guard James Harden and Kyrie Irving. I still just
think that the offensive ceiling, as ridiculous as it is in Brooklyn, it's
not going to click every night, and they just don't have much of a
defense to fall back on, especially with Jeff Green out. Now that's a
huge that's a huge loss too. I don't know how they're going to stop.
Be honest, Andrew Holiday, well, especially when Chris Middleton in against
the Celtics, was that you could prolong this series against the Celtics to make
sure that he returns without fourteen days against the Bucks. You don't have to
go too long with that, right, So yeah, I mean, I
don't know. I've been attempting to strike the delicate balance throughout most of this
season and the playoffs where I respect the hell out of this next team and
think the upside is remarkably high. They could steamroll their way to an NBA
title. I just also think the floor is lower than people realize, and
I'm not sure that it's that unlikely that they hit that floor in a few
games, especially against the Bucks, who are who remain a fantastic team that
is more built for this deeper postseason run than it's been in years past.
And Janna says, yet to go kaboom kaboom. He was fantastic defensively in
the Heat series, but who's defending Jannis on the box. I think Jeff
Green is the guy when he's healthy. Otherwise is Nicholas too? I mean
he will, but is the best guy? It's Green or Claxton, right,
unless I'm yeah, maybe Bruce Brown, but that seems Bruce Friends seems
a little tiny for that. The idea of ronde hollis Jefferson, the idea
of ron So, the ghost of rondae hollis Jefferson. And Noah said in
the chat Britton Forbes greater than everybody. That was a sneaky pick up by
the Bucks. That was you know, I still don't understand why they signed
DJ Augustine in the first place, but to give themselves like more off the
dribble scoring juice, and that just makes them so much harder to defend when
you have Jannis Roving off the ball and then two guys in Middleton and Drew
Holiday who can score at every level, and Britton Forbes, I would say,
can score it two not gonna be the guy that's gonna get you to
the rim a ton that has been monstrous for them. So it's it's funny.
The Bucks are noticeably shallower than they were last season, and yet there's
so much better for their playoffs right now, and I would pick the Bucks
in that series as well. And it's not I just feel like, even
if they the Nets get Jeff greenback in time and he's playing again in that
series, what are the answers against the Bucks offensively? And the Bucks I
think have at least some defensive answers for Brooklyn. Maybe this is a series
though, if you're looking at the concern of that, does brook Lopez get
played off the court because you could get away, you might still be able
to get away with it, but they were dropping him back. Even when
beam Adebayo was up top against the heat, they were just like, fuck
it, we have Chris Middleton, Drew Holiday, Jannie. They could still
take that route. But it's a little bit different when it's Jimmy Butler or
beam Adebayo himself shooting from the perimeter or the other guys the way they were
shooting as opposed to a Durant or Harden or Kyrie or Joe Harris, like
that combination is so lethal. So there's questions on the Buck side too,
But I think there's a chance to be a strong I'd say it better than
fifty fifty chance, right now and maybe this looks stupid that we see Buck
sixers in the finals rather than Net sixers, and I think the expectation was
it'd probably be sixers nets, just because Philly has just the easier path to
the conference finals, having to go through none of Brooklyn or Milwaukee, with
a twenty to twenty five percent chance for the Hawks. Of course, fifteen
to twenty we downgraded it. Okay, I didn't know if I convinced you.
I'm sold. I'm all in on Philly. There's still my pick to
come out of the East right now. Milwaukee is very much infringing upon that,
though I'm going back and forth there. I do think this could be
a series where we see a lot of the Honest at the five. It
might have to be that, or it's PJ. Tucker and your Honest as
your front court, which the Bucks haven't gone to the Ton. They've liked
to have another Big whether it's Portus or brook Lopez with them, but you
almost have to because the Nets are they're not gonna play under Jordan Big Minutes
at all. They don't play yet, they don't play him, and like
Blake Griffin at the fives, a non traditional center. Yeah, if anyone
again has you can see the speaker requests because you were made the host of
this. But if anyone has questions, throw it in the chat you can
ask us. Let's get to another one that we have here. You said
you did this point guards and the most rebounds and playoff history Adam, Yeah,
easy enough, one right, This is from Bryson. Which point guard
has the most rebounds in playoff history? If you gave me a list of
five options, what I guess which one it is? I don't know.
Let's do that because I have the top five written down, so I used
Stadead with their position filters. They don't differentiate between point guards and shooting guards,
so I had to kind of manually filter those out, which eliminates the
number two rebounding guard, Clyde Drexler in postseason history. I am going to
include Jerry West as a point guard, even though he was very much one
of the classic combo guards. So the top five, and I will give
them to you an alphabetical order and see if you can put them in the
correct order are Dennis Johnson, Jason Kidd, the bed Rajon Rondo, Jerry
West, and Russell Westbrook is Russ one. Russ is four seven hundred and
sixty four career rebounds in the playoffs. Who is going to be first?
Then it campaign the factor in the longevity stuff. Yeah, I'm already I'm
out hit me. What's the five? Five? As Rondo seven twenty four,
as Westbrook at seven sixty four, Dennis Johnson has seven eighty one,
Jerry west has eight twenty six, and Jason Kidd has one thousan fifty eight
postseason rebounds. I understand the longevity argument, but the Jason Kidd is actually
the gam really surprising. I don't know that it was that surprising to me
because he was always on good playoff teams, Like, at no point in
his career was he stuck in the lottery or stuck on these teams that had
consistent first rounds exits, and he was playing in the finals early in his
career. He was playing on the one good Knicks team before this one of
the last forty years. Later in his career, he has made a number
of deep playoff runs the Mavericks teams, you know, time and again.
So I wasn't that surprised. I think I probably would have picked had I
done it. Off the top of my head, Rondo. Yeah, I
just thought he hadn't seen enough playoff games because the Celtics were really good at
the beginning issue of his career. That's an interesting list, I don't I
Dennis Johnson is the most surprising name on that list to me until you remember
that the Celtics were either in the Eastern Conference Finals or the NBA Finals basically
every year of his career in the eighties, and he played on good Sonics
teams. All right, whatever, you're just gonna rebuke everything I say everything.
Everyone's name on that list is eminently believable. There you go. This
question comes from my roth bomb. We should have asked it already because we
just talked Bucks Nets. But who's the biggest X factor in the upcoming nets
Buck series? Man? People just writing off the Celtics before they even play
their game before I don't want to date this podcast, but you can't even
respond to this. I would love to see a world in which that series
ends up being tied to too. It'll be absolute pandemonium on social media.
But yes, the biggest X factor in that series, I'm gonna say Brent
Forbes. So for the Nets I'm gonna say it's probably I think Nick Claxton
because right now, as well of Jeff Green being out of as of this
moment, they need him to do a lot defensively, would be my guess.
The Bucks being Brent Forbes is interesting. Well, my thinking there is
your rotation, there's going to be a little bit shallower without Devincenzo available for
the series. Bud doesn't love going super deep. You need scoring to keep
up with the Nets, and you have to get it with the second unit,
So I think him continuing this heater that he's been on is vital for
them. Yeah, their rotations also so thin at this point. Unless you
want to say it's Bobby Portius, are you gonna pick one? I actually
think that was my second pick. For what it's worth, I think my
pick would be Brook Lopez and can you stay on the court because the Nets
are going to play small and you're at in theory at disadvantage for most of
their lineups at the five right now, whether it's Blake, whether it's Claxton,
just because he's so quick, he could still probably play Brooke because Claxton
is not gonna do all these crazy things off the dribble on offense. But
if it's Blake Griffin, if it's Jeff Green, if it's Bruce Brown,
where Katie's like kind of the pseudo five rather that lineup looks like just in
general though having four. Most of their lineups have four just perimeter players at
all times, and I would say half of them probably have five. When
you're looking at up Blake Griffin Jeff Green situation, so can he stay on
the court and can he hit some of his outside shots maybe? Or can
he be a bruiser in the post because we've seen him kind of revert back
to his roots a little bit. I feel like in the past few months,
I'm not going to get a ton of post ups. But he's like
hanging around down low, or he's in the dunker spot or yes there are
those those postops, or him trying to back his way down or you know,
dribble the ball in the nets. If they're going to be smaller,
maybe that's the route you go is to try to make them, you know,
guard Brook Lopez in those interior situations. You can probably making a case
for PJ. Tucker because if you're mentioning Janis at the five it's because PJ.
Tucker, like that's an important He's an important to that scenario. Slight
tangent here, but I feel like brook Lopez has had one of the most
interesting career arcs of anyone in the NBA right now. Just think about what
he was on those New Jersey Nets teams when he was first starting like a
twenty point scorer, operating almost entirely out of the post with a bunch of
skill moves, never took jumpers, was just an atrocious defensive liability, couldn't
rebound for shit. And then he became like a defensive Player of the Year
contender and a floor spacer who operates from a foot beyond the three point arc.
How many guys have undergone on more dramatic transitions within a career When you
look at his final year on the Nets to the year he spent with the
Lakers to his first season in Milwaukee, they're probably his second and like that
is the wild It's probably that's the wildest five year span because you have to
include last year when he made all defense too. I did not remember that
he played on the Lakers that and look, it was because of the time
that he spent with the Lakers that he ended up signing for the bi annual
with Milwaukee. It was a one year, like three million dollars deal,
whatever it is. So yeah, I'm absolutely with you, Josh X.
Are the Nets, Bucks, and Sixers the three best teams in the NBA?
I mean no, Like, we definitely cannot leave the Utah Jazz out
of that conversation, considering they were the best team throughout the entire regular season
and it was not fluky. Yeah, there's I don't we probably I apologize
for our and Josh if that came off as condescending, there's I think you
can make a stronger argument here for these three teams because the Lakers are still
banged up, the Suns with CP three being banged up, I would still
say that Jazz are right there. There's still the fact that they let the
Grizzlies hang around so much in Game three is just like, oh okay,
but that, yeah, they're still working. Dono Mitchell back on the phone.
When you look at how many offensive weapons they have, what they're able
to do defensively still, because of Rudy Gobert, I think there might be
two of the three best teams in the NBA in that group though, is
that I'm good with that. I'm good with that night and Josh, I
will not apologize for our tone on this question. And if you don't like
it, you can just yell at me on Messenger at some point, just
yell at him anyway. Please, Someone does enough of that already. Someone
submitted speaker request and yell at Adam. I'm here for anyone yelling. I'm
tired of looking up at Josh in some Fantasy League standings, g Baiano and
I apologize if I pronounced that last name extremely poorly in lieu of the reports
today, What do you think Colin Sexton's trade value? Is one thing I
want to touch on here, and this is not Gee's fault. We don't
need to cover thoughts as rumors. And Terry Pluto of the Cleveland Playing deal
Or heard from two executives that they floated the idea of maybe Colin Sexton being
traded. That is not a rumor, it is not a report. It
is two execs, possibly from other teams who want Colin Sexton, throwing it
out there. Now. That being said, the idea of trading Colin Sexton
to me is not bonkers. Because he is coming up for his extension and
he's an extremely difficult player to value, and he gets even harder for the
Calves because they're not ready to win right now. And so if you sign,
this has nothing to do with Kevin Love. His deal is the light.
He has two years left. There's a light at the end of the
time there. If you can't move him this year, there will be some
weird ass buy out next year, or they'll be able to move him something
whatever. Colin Sexton's extension knowledgable this year, big money deal kicks in the
following year. Also when Darius Garland's is extension knowledgeable, Jared Allen is getting
paid this summer in restricted free agency, you fast forward two more seasons.
Then your core is those three guys plus Isaaca Coro, plus whoever you drafted
this year. Maybe Lamar Stevens pans out. You look at the rest of
the roster, the little fires they've taken, but you have those three big
money players. Are they worth I'm gonna say Sexton, Jared Allen, and
Darius Garland a combined seventy to seventy I'll say seventy million dollars because let's say,
because that's what you're looking at, and the answer is no, and
they're worth that if that's what they get. I want to make the clear.
I want every single player in the NBA to make how often you clarify
that, just because I think it needs to be There needs to be that
level of empathy there. But if you don't think Colin Sexton's gonna get paid
by someone, there were only eleven other players in the league this year who
averaged over twenty points while shooting better than fifty percent on two and thirty seven
percent from three. That actually sounds like an extensive list when you look at
the names, it's pretty much a list of all NBA candidates. Jalon Brown,
Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Joel Embiid, Kyrie Irving, Nicole Yokich,
Zach Lavine and Kawhi Leonard, Damian Lillard, Jason Tatum, and Collin
Anthony Towns. Those are all max contract players. I know Jalen Brown didn't
get a max I know zach Lavine's value is probably debatable. If any one
of those players hit free agency this summer or next summer, they're getting a
max contract. So if I'm Colin Sext. If I'm con Sexton his agent
and you're coming in with an extension offered us below max money, I'm probably
turning it down unless we're in the twenty plus million dollar neighborhoods where it's really
making you think about it. And that's why con Sexton could theoretically become available
because he's not a point guard and we need to stop judging him as such.
His vision has gotten better on the move, still gets that tunnel vision
though his defense comes and goes. He really looks the part sometimes on ball
like he I don't think it's and when he looks the part, I don't
mean that he's effective. He just looks like he should be a good defender
when he's on the ball. It's fine if you think that he doesn't need
to be that guy, and Darius Garland is. I don't know if that's
the backcourt to funnel fifty million dollars into per year fifty plus and that I
think is the reasoning behind would you shop Colin Sexton this year. I'm going
to follow it up with this now before I throw it to you. Moving
really good players on rookie deals is incredibly difficult. And I think the Hawks
ran into this with John Collins this year. You're not getting equal value in
players because these guys make so little. In Colin Sexton's case, next year
he's going to be making six point four million, six point three million,
actually even less than six point four you're not getting a there's no six point
four million dollar player that just has Colin Sexon's value. For the most part.
You have to decide from other guys on rookie skille contracts, which you're
not going to get right. And you could attach him to more money,
but like, what is the first Like if you attach him to Kevin Love,
getting off of Kevin Love's salary then becomes one of the assets you're getting
back in that deal. And so that's why things here are so tricky.
What would you do if you're Cleveland in this situation, Adam, I would
just keep building. I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you've had to say.
I mean, when I saw the quote unquote trade rumors, it was like,
okay, sure, Like what are we doing here? This is definitely
just another executive from an opposing team trying to drum up some interest and maybe
tempt Cleveland into parting with him, which is never going to happen. Colin
Sexon is the guy, regardless of whether there's like abrasiveness in the locker room
or in terms of his on court style and maybe not getting the all to
enough other players like Okay, he's a young guard on a bad team,
Like that's kind of what happens and play. Yeah, Solon Sexton is the
kind of player that you want to acquire if you're a rebuilding team, and
the Calves are rebuilding teams, so like, there is no fire associated with
this smoke. I as a quick side note, though, I also want
to say that one of my favorite things about the locker room recordings is when
somebody pops into the room and request to speak while having like no idea what
the conversation is, and like I'm not going to interrupt it to let somebody
speak when they don't know what's going on, and then immediately leaves the room.
I just I get a huge kick out of it every time it happens.
Shout out, are you talking about we had a couple of them?
Yeah, we had a couple of them while you were talking about Cotton Sexton.
And we appreciate everyone who is in the room and listening, and we
do try to get to questions that are dropped in the chat or if you've
been here listening and want to speak, like please feel free and it just
it's funny to me when there's a speaker request, like as somebody populates the
room. We had to speaker requests. As soon as I created it,
I was like, I we haven't even like started, Yeah, what don't
you don't even know what's happened. It don't say asks anything, though,
so there doesn't need to be a topic per se the on the Collin Sexton
really quickly, though, I understand what you're saying. I would I would
keep him too, But what are you you know, if you're an extension
talks, what are you giving him? M I mean, I think you're
still looking at something close to a max deal. Like, let's not be
sign if it's funny, if it's otherwise, you wait, sure, but
let's not forget how ridiculously good he was at the start of this season.
And let's also not forget that he was also good for most of last year.
So this scoring and efficiency is not new for him. It's not an
anomaly. If you want to wait and see what his market is. That's
a team is right as when I'm evaluating a young player going forward, I'm
often if they're on a really bad team like the Cavaliers, I'm often more
interested in what they do at the start of the season anyway, because that's
when everyone is more fresh, and I'm I see them wearing down. You
know, it's obvious to me that the offensive load sex and was asked to
carry on a bad team that's losing night after night following the hot streak at
the start of the year. That is a really tough load for any young
offensive oriented player to carry. And it doesn't surprise me when they decline a
little bit, you know. There. You can obviously learn stuff throughout the
year, but in that specific scenario, I am more willing to buy into
the peak that we saw, even if it came earlier in the year.
That's an interesting way to look at it. I ever thought of it that
way. Maybe that's why we've disagreed on player rankings in the past. Yeah,
that's a good point. A few more questions here. This one came
in recently from Virgil. Why is Julius Randall so bad? So? Stepping
on tells what we already talked about. I want to change the topic here
because Virgil at the top of the podcast you talking about why Randall's struggling right
now, and there's clearly some like the yips in here because he couldn't finish
at the rim and his free throw shooting was not great. What would you
give him in an extension per year? This is and to get Yeah,
well, if you're the Knicks, ideally to make you after seeing what's happened
in the playoffs thus far, and let's let's say you get bounced in five,
well, I still think you're looking at like twenty twenty two. Yeah,
he's in his head. I think it's pretty obvious that he's in his
head right now. Like he's forcing the issue with his passes. His decisions
aren't as split second as they became during the regular season. He's forcing up
shots that even as high of a degree of difficulty as he thrived with during
the regular season. Like they're getting harder still, and it's not just a
byproduct of the Hawks playing good defense against him. Like to me, he's
very much in his head. And that's not all that uncommon when you're in
your first playoff run, and I think is the overarching point that we already
mentioned. This is probably more so a harbinger of what's wrong with the Knicks
roster construction than necessarily Julius Randall. There's a cap on how good you can
be when Julius Randall is the vessel through which you create all of your offense,
because you need him to be the passer and the primary score. And
that shouldn't be surprising. As we get another speaker request and bounce, Joe
Schmow asked non playoff question, real name, by the way, what real
name? What should the Spurs do with Tamar? Sign and trade, resign
or let him walk for nothing? I think there's another question they need to
ask first, what is Greg Popovitch doing? Do you think he's back next
year? I never want to speculate about that because I have no way of
knowing. And Craig Popovich is one of those people who has earned the right
to decide when he retires. So I'm going to do the full respect whatever
decision he makes. It's when he leaves. It's going to be very tim
Duncan. The announcement just comes. No one realizes is coming, like you
know the futures under deliberation, but he just walks it's going to be something
like the announcement is the next head coach, right, like Becky Hammond takes
over as San Antonio Spurs head coach, like not even a mention of Popovitch
the he's earned the right to coach as long as he wants. I will
say, though, as long as the Spurs remain in this limbo, it
does put their trajectory at a disadvantage, unless coach Pop says, I don't
need to be coaching a team that's competing necessarily during my final years because they're
at a crossroads. It's as Joe schlow real name, of course mentions Damar,
but there's also Rudy Gay, there's Patty Mills and what are you doing
from here? Are you resigning? How many of those guys? You have
another lottery picking coming? Devin Vassell, Dejanta Murray is fine, He's already
on a second d He's fairly young. Derek White when he's healthy. His
second deal kicks in the Spurs with this very weird point where they have a
lot of quality younger guys and everyone who's listened to us before knows how I
love me some Devon decide, I think he's going to be spectacular. Do
they have the blue chip guy? I think jan Dy Murray is the closest.
I don't think they do, which is why I want them to embrace
being bad. So I think my answer to the original question would be like,
just move on if you can. If you can broke her, assign
and trade awesome. If you can't, don't back yourself into a corner by
trying to resign. And that's nothing against Demarta Rosen, who I think I've
enjoyed watching this version of Derosen more than any other version, even if the
Spurs haven't been as competitive as some of his previous teams, because he's playing
like peak Demarta Rosen basketball. He's developed as a passer, He's no longer
trying to force those three point shots that aren't part of his game as much
as the analytically driven minds want him to take those. It's been fun to
watch because he's playing with that like full of joy again, even if it
isn't translating into winning, and I just I want him to end up in
another good situation. So like, personally, I would love to see him
back. But if I'm speaking on behalf of the franchise, I think you
have to at some point embrace fully turning it over to the young guys.
What's interesting here is you get into a John Collins Kevin Love type situation where
Jamard Rosen is extremely good. Where's the team that's gonna pay him? If
it's not San Antonio And I don't know. People have talked about Toronto.
I don't know if that really makes sense for them. I guess it theoretically
could. I think in theoretically he makes sense the Lakers, but they just
don't have the cap space to do that. They could use someone exactly like
him though, to lead those no Lebron minutes. He'd be perfect there.
But you're looking at other teams. I don't you know. Do the Knicks
enter this equation because they have cap space and they need someone you know he'll
get He gets to play with a three point shooting version of himself and RJ.
Barrett. Essentially it could be interesting Miami. Yeah, just more of
them go to score mold but just between him, Jimmy Butler and Bam All
not shooting Threese like that gets tight. Muck it up on a nightly basis
if you had to, if you had to predict, though, Is he
in San Antonio next season? I have no feel for this one. I'm
gonna say no, probably because I think I'm gonna lean towards yes, because
I do think Pop is going to be back for another year, and I
don't think that while he's there that they'll embrace the full scared, the full
scale teardown. But pure speculation. I just don't think they could get him,
and it would be franchise maile practice to sign him to like a three
or four year deal. I don't know if they could get him on a
one plus one unless you're paying him to max, which maybe that's the option,
is, here's max money. Just stay a little while longer. Dallas
would be interesting for him, just to give Luca Nanchos that second shot.
Creator. I could see that you disgusted. Actually, I know you said
you could just think I was just thinking about it because I didn't like the
initial My initial thought was that I don't really love the fit, probably for
the shooting reasons again, because I think you ultimately want to surround Luca with
shooters at every position, because so much of his game is based on those
drives. So I my initial reaction was negative, but I think it can
still work Rudy Gay and Patty Mills or either of those two back in San
Antonio. No, definitely not. I'll be interesting where Patty Mills goes.
One of these guys, He's going to fit anywhere. Rudy Gay fits anywhere
too, at this stage of his career. Well, yeah, anyone wants
a bad basketball player. Carson asked if you put Lillard on the Pacers,
would they be title contenders? Someone followed up in the mentions to cej go
with him and who did the Blazers get in return? Carson clarified by saying,
not a trade hypothetical, just literally add Dame to the Blazers, to
the Pacers current roster. My reasoning is, I think the Pacers are a
group of group of role players without a true star. I think Dame a
star, is a star without solid role players. I disagree with the ladder
point a great deal. I think that Robert Covington use of Nerkis is probably
a little bit better than a role player, even mellow solid role player.
Right now, what my issue with this exercise? If you put Damian Millard
on the Pacers, who are deep at every position, at full strength of
good NBA players. Yes, they're a contender. How is he putting exactly
right? So there need to be a trade of some sort, and so
are well not if the Blazers buy out Lillard? No, look at if
let's take let's say it costs. I don't even know what it would cost
because the Bonus and Turner don't make sense for the Blazers, and we can't
take away any key pieces are also invalidated to the question, Well, no,
let's take away key pieces. Let's take away Let's say it was an
eighty team, an eighty team trade whatever, however many teams it takes.
To do this, you have to remove two of Turner. Let's remove their
two best players and put Damian little bit on the Pacers. So SA bonus
and Brogden. I think Turner is still better then Brogden. Did you have
an audibo before this podcast? I did not? All right? Well,
all right, so you want to take aways a bonus and Turner they have
no center at this point, But can we take away SA bonus in someone
else then s a bonus? And that wasn't what you originally asked. The
prisoners of this question are changing too fast for me to comprehend. All right,
So if he takes a bonus and turner off this team and put Dame,
are they a contender? Is Dame playing the five? Apparently because you
just ripped the Blazers of all their bigs. No, let's let's take away
sabonus in Brogden, just because that makes more sense from a roster construction standpoint.
I don't think either of those guys would be headed to Portland in this
Dame trade. By the way, I'm just I'm using it as you can't
just put Dame we on the Pacers. That's just not that. Yeah,
I refused, all right, So what are we What are we looking at
there? Then? So we're looking at Warren, Well, we're looking at
at Point Guard. We have Damon McConnell and Aaron Holliday. We have Lavert,
Jeremy Lamb, TJ. Warren, Justin Holliday, Sabonis, McDermott and
or no, we took away Sabonis, so McDermott and Miles Turner. I
don't think that's a contender is better than gram. I don't think it's an
upgrade from from the Blazers because I think the thing is their second best player
could be one of three players. I think you default to Turner, but
it could be Lavert, it could be a healthy Warren. Well see he
looks like after injury. I don't know that either of those guys are even
close to on the same level as CG. McCollum, who is dude as
a bucket, smooth as butter in a bucket. So yes, if you
put Damian Lillard on the current version, if it was Damian Lillard for Aaron
Holliday the Pacers or maybe one of the three best teams in the Eastern Conference,
if not better than that, if you still a question for you,
Okay, if you put Luca don Chich on the Los Angeles Lakers, just
without a trade, would they be contenders? I feel like you're I feel
like you're being too mean about the nature of the question. I have your
back here, Carson. I'm all for putting game on the Pacers. I'm
just having fun, Carson. We have a we have a speaker request from
Noah and we are We're going to Noah after all these a long time lurker
first time speaker here, how's it going? Nooah, it's going good,
guys. How you guys we're doing well? I am doing I'm shambles actually
and shambles as well. Don't worry, it's it's been an emotional is my
honorary Nick's fandom being revoked here? Is that the purpose of this speaker request
your humanity card is being reverbable because you're joining this too much. But I
mean, since you guys were talking about Damon the Blazers, I had a
question earlier, but do you guys that Portland Denver getting Portland in the first
round? Do you think that was the worst possible matchup for them, especially
given all those injuries, especially at the point guard spot, Murray and Morris
not being available among the teams they could have played, I think so.
Like obviously, like the Suns or the Jazz would have been a worst matchup
just by virtue of them being so good. But that was not a favorable
matchup, especially given how scorching hot Portland was heading into the playoffs. Yeah,
and I would have rather played the headcase Clippers if I was Denver would
have worked out better for them, And in all honesty, it feels like
we're seeing first off use of Nurkics just playing well, very well, And
like Norman Powell last night's performance, he was extremely efficient. Damon Lillard doesn't
even have to be the best player on the floor. I don't even think
Damon Lillard had fifteen points last night for the Blazers to win. But do
you guys see the Nuggets getting past the first round even if things stay like
maybe everything normalizes and Nicole Yoki starts passing the ball more. But you guys
see Denver pulling this through Denver and seven baby sticking by my pick, you're
sticking with it, I'm gonna flip. I'm gonna I'm gonna go with Portland
here because if I've had my honorary Knicks fandom Carter evoked, I might as
well take away the honorary Denver one as well. If you told me that
the Dame was going to score ten points on one of ten shooting and the
Blazers were going to win by twenty points, I don't know that I would
ever have believed that. And this this Portland team with Powell playing so well
and Nurkics filling his role and wanting to prove Kendrick Perkins wrong about his defense.
Like, this is a really good team and Denver has I think it's
it's similar to like what we saw from the Golden State Warriors in the play
in game, where so much energy was expended to maintain this level coming into
the playoffs. That with the shallow nature of the rotation because of all the
injuries, it's just really hard to maintain that level. Now. Yeah,
I agree, especially because I feel like Michael Porter Jr. Isn't really playing.
I mean, he's been playing really well throughout the entire season, but
like this is the big stage now and it's certainly not the bubble and we've
seen every every young player has gotten their bubble superpowers we vote in the playoffs,
yes, especially Tyler Harrow. So I don't know. I feel like
I picked Portland's and win this series. But I did not expect their offense
to be firing at all on all, not even all cylinders, because obviously
Damian Lillard hasn't been as efficient, but c J. Mccollin has been good.
The bench has been way better than expected. But yeah, I continue
to pick Portland in like six games, I think, so there's win three
in a row because I think so I knew they already stole the game in
Denver, and I don't. I'm surprised that they lost at home, but
they are really good at home, and I don't know if Denver can like
make the correct adjustments, especially if for Milcom Pozzle is your second best player
right now in the series. That's not wrong, that's not really the best
thing, you know. I think as a Knicks fan, you should be
rooting for the Blazers to lose so that Damian Lillard wants out. You know,
I support this is my second team. Well, I do not endorse
this right now. Well, look, you could play levels here where it's
okay you want the Blazers to win so that they're coaxed into paying Norman Powell
all this money only to be even more stuck than they already were, and
then Dave wants out, not this summer but the next one. I see
where you're going with this. Noah, I like it. I definitely,
that's clearly what's that's the angle you're playing, And I'm with you, Blazers
and six Let's go baby. Yes. Co hosting with Dan's exhausting sometimes.
Thank you for speaking Noah, that was great. If anyone else we have
one question left is our actual matback? I think maybe two. I have
to scroll through this, but if anyone else wants to speak you now would
be the time to do it. Adam monitoring it was like a hawk.
This one is not Joe Timesmo asked, what was that? I see what
you did there? Yeah? Not Joe Timesmo asked if Jordan is better than
Oh? I didn't realize this is a troll question. If Jordan is better
than Lebron because of the rings, then, as Robert worry the goat,
no Bill Russell is so she wouldn't move on. That was a great answer.
I answer, I do have a question, and there's a I think
it's gonna become pretty relevant. Let's talk about as if it's happening, What
in the actual hell are the Lakers gonna do? If Anthony Davis is just
a no go moving forward? He left the first he didn't start the second
half of Lakers Sons, and the Lakers are currently getting blown out as we
record this. And I say blown out because it's double digits, and that
just feels like when you're on of Anthony Davis, that feels a little insurmountable.
Ken the very poorly by the time this is public tomorrow looks as the
official national media member driving the Suns and seven bandwagon. I'm gonna just assume
they win this game. They're up by thirteen. Now it's over, it's
done. Can the Lakers beat the Suns two times in three tries if Anthony
Davis is a no go? No? I mean, your your original question
was what happens to the Lakers if Anthony Davis is a no go? And
the answer is very simple, they lose. Come on, you don't think
Lebron could win two of three? No? I uh. Doubting Lebron James
is like career malpractice, especially in the playoffs. But have you watched Lebron
James in these playoffs and gotten the same feeling that you have in previous ones.
This feels like it's the beginning of the post prime Okay, I hate
that. No, it does it does. Okay, we've we've consistently,
we've consistently for the last few years, seeing that he is able to elevate
his games so significantly in the playoffs that it doesn't matter who the MVP was
that season. We come out of the playoffs being like, is Lebron still
the best player in the league. There's no way that you could have watched
the play in tournament and this first round and gotten that same feeling. Okay,
look a couple of things here. With the exception of Game three,
when it looked like it didn't look like he was just attacking the basket more,
I agree with you. However, he had no hit two games before
we shifted into play in postseason mode to get to play through or to recover
from that ankle injury. Where fresh no, get out of here. Come
on, he is This dude is thirty six years old, and I think,
oh, the facility's playing like this at thirty six is an achievement in
and of itself. Right, But look you're sitting here, you're saying,
okay, Ron, Josh Smith. Yeah, for let's talk about low efficiency
taste right now. Jesus fucking Christ, I'm like, my head is spinning.
The dude is averaging, not including game four right now, twenty one
points, nine assists, two steals, shooting thirty eight point one percent from
three, over fifty percent on his two pointers. I understand if you think
if the Lakers did have Anthony Davis. I think because of Lebron's ankle injury
and not having that ramp up time. I get it, I said,
Lebron James s prime NBA player. You just all of a sudden said that
Lebron is on the decline. I'm not. Yeah, it might eventually come.
But you're gonna use three games three as evidence of this when we've previously
used those small samples where he elevates his performance and wills his team to victories
in the playoffs. Yeah, I'm going to three games three? What is
the evidence that he is on the permanent, sustainable, irreversible decline. Taco
J has said we have a debate and Celtics and seven. I look,
if if Celtics beat the Nets in seven games, I might die from Jack.
So look, I mean, Noah is saying too that Jay Crowder isn't
even playing that well defensively. I'm not sure Michael Bridges has been playing that
well defensively. And we just haven't seen that takeover Lebron that we've seen in
previous postseasons. Again, like he's playing at an all NBA level. He's
a phenomenal player still, But I don't think that you can watch like what
happened during the regular season, the increasing deference to Anthony Davis, the increasing
reliance on the supporting cast, and now this and not think that he's headed
down, even if it's a marginal decline. But like, this is the
first time in forever where I've watched Lebron and not felt like the conversation coming
out of the playoffs, regardless of how far they go, is going to
be that he's the best player in the league. If they win this title.
The conversation is going to be if Anthony Davis is the best player in
the league. Look, oh man, okay, how many games? How
many games has Lebron played since he suffered his ankle injury in total? How
many games? This would be his fifth game or his seventh game, right
including the brief return. And I do agree with what Taco J just said
in the chat, which is that he's playing well on a bad ankle.
It's hard to elevate your game with an injury that affects your athleticism, no
doubt. No, yeah, so his career is over. People, you're
trying to warp my argument here. No, I'm not trying to put You're
also saying like he's had a co star who's not a co star. And
I think no one brings up a great point about his supporting cast. I
think that was Noah yeah or no yeah, this is this isn't the oh
is his supporting cast. Anthony isn't the best of his career. I agree
with that you need, I want to you need two stars at least in
this league to win a championship. So I'm not if he can't leave this
Lakers team as the seven cy to a championship. All Ad isn't playing consistently
up to hissibility because we saw him in the second half of was that Game
two where he was pretty dominant. That's that's evidence of nothing you want to
you need to find, but that this is talking about the results. I'm
talking about watching him play, Like, do you definitely feeling of inevitability right
now? No? After seven games you just said doubting Lebron is career malpractice,
And you're gonna say seven games is enough to show you that, Yeah,
anymore? Fair enough? But and look, first of all, two
of those games towards the end of the regular season, he was just monstrous
in sub thirty minutes. So I totally, completely, holly reject the notion.
Okay, okay, let me reframe this. So for those who are
listening and aren't familiar at NBA math, we always do the Crystal Basketball rankings
both going into a season that's more predictive and then coming out of a season
that's more retroactive. So, Dan, when you fill out your Crystal Basketball
ballot for the twenty twenty twenty two season, where is Lebron gonna fall?
I mean he's gonna fall on the top five? You're you're displacing Lebron from
the top five. No what you're telling me? Then what's the problem that's
not post? Are you going to consider putting him at number one? I
might, I have the playoffs finished yet. I'm also not going to read
too much into a seven game sample size when this dude has been superhuman for
the past almost two decades. All Right, we'll see as it continues to
progress, but we have to get out of here. So this is how
I would like you to frame it. I'm gonna try and not be as
angry right now, but if you want to tell me that you think age
is finally going to catch up with Lebron. That is perfectly fine. I
will accept it. You are basing it off of no evidence whatsoever that Lebron
has given you. Is that would be my stance here. If you're using
seven games to say that this doesn't feel this feels like the end of Lebron's
prime or whatever. I I don't want to use the word respect because I
do actually respect you as much as I want to strangle you right now.
I would accept the other argument more than the one that you seem to be
making right now. And everyone who's listening, I hopefully can catch the tone
of how hyperbock I'm being about Adam saying that Lebron is dogshit. I just
don't if this was another player maybe, and I understand he's age thirty six,
that needs to be the argument. Oh, that's gonna be age thirty
seven next season. This feels like it's going to be the end. It's
not so in this three game series. Well, was that it's the unspoken
part of the argument where we do know his age and the mileage he's racked
up throughout his career, and this is the most significant miss time he's had
due to an injury and he's coming out of it. And in the past,
no matter what the injury has been, he's come out of it and
immediately returned to that ridiculously high level. If there was a game where his
cohorts were missing time or ineffective, he has been able to step up and
become more impactful. And we're just not seeing that, And that, to
me, is the first indication that we've really had that the decline is coming.
I just don't if this were happening while Anthony Davis was Anthony Davis,
and I'm not even about him being ruled out for the game with the left
growing strain. Thanks for sending the Rachel Nicholas tweet in here, Taco J.
This is just the heights he was playing at this season when Anthony Davis
still wasn't Anthony Davis. I just can't. I won't even still weren't as
high as the previous season's heights though, And I really hope that I'm wrong.
Like Lebron is one of my all time favorite players. I hope that
he has nothing but success in the coming years. He I just so twenty
six, eight and eight playing all defense level, maybe defense close to it.
It's not tougher, But it's tougher to cite those per game numbers in
today's NBA, where everybody is putting up gigantic numbers because we're seeing faster paces
and better offenses. Like twenty six, eight and eight this year is not
the same as twenty six, eight and eight three years ago, even if
he's doing it in under thirty five minutes a game. A valid argument I'm
so triggered right now? Is that the phrase that the kids are using.
We have to get out of here. I'm I'm all, I'm hot bothered
right now. Thank you for everyone who stuck with us and joined us and
contributed to this conversation. It was super fun. Once we get off the
air, I'm gonna cuss Adam out for at least five to seven minutes straight.
We are Hardwood Knox. If you have not listened to us before,
we are here every Sunday four pm normally, do amas. We'll cover some
of the hottest topics too, like we did at the top of this with
the playoffs. Follow us on Twitter at Hardwood Knox built exactly as it sounds.
Until next time. We leave you with a shout out to the one
the only Kyle Kuzma's backup, third ballot Hall of Famer, Maybe Lebron James