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Hey, everybody, Welcome to another
episode of Let's Ask Paul, the podcast

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where I, Paul Abernathy, attempt
to answer you're pressing electrical code related questions,

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either in a email or if selected, on an upcoming podcast, much

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like today's podcast. Hey, I
want to thank everybody out there first before

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I get too deep into this,
I want to thank everybody out there that's

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gone over to Sparky Mafia and signed
up for an account on our message board

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or our new forum type of thing, or whatever you want to call it.

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It's kind of very tiktokish, but
it's pretty neat free. You can

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go sign up on it. But
I also want to thank everybody that has

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helped us out by purchasing some merch
whether it's our stickers or you picked up

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our minimalist wallets. So I appreciate
it if you're a master electrician or journeyman

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electrician or whatever and want to pick
up one of these minimalist wallets. I

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love mine, have head it for
over a year and a half and we

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have them available over on sparkymafia dot
com if you want to pick them up.

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Of course, you can also get
them over at Fasttracksystem dot com as

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well, but sparkymafia dot com is
probably the easiest place to pick them up.

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And I think we have more designs
over at sparky Mafia than we do

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over on fastracksystem dot com. I
believe that is true. Okay, we're

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going to get into some questions today
that we're submitted. Again, I'm trying

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to catch up to these questions.
So again, if you've been waiting for

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your question to be answered, uh, you know, just I'm going to

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get to them. Just give me
a little time. Uh. There's an

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awful lot of them, so uh, let's just uh we'll just have to

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slowly get through them a little bit
at a time. But remember, if

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you got a question and you want
to send it in, just go ahead

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and send it. Go to Paul
Abernathy dot com. That's the website Paul

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Abernathy A B E R N A
T h Y dot com and that's a

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portal where it's sponsored by Wicks,
so it doesn't cost you anything and you

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can submit your question on there.
I'll remind you if you are a fast

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Track student and you're asking something about
your program or a question in the course,

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uh, make sure you let me
know that you're a student. That

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type of thing over when you submit
your question on Paul Abernathy dot com,

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so I can kind of make sure
that I validate you and then in order

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to bump you to the top of
the list. Okay, all right,

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Now, if you lie and try
to do it and you ain't a study,

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and I'll know because I cross reference
these things, and then I will

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block you and you will never get
access to anything. I'm just saying,

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all right, So let's get into
the day's question. All right, So

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this question says, hey, Paul, big fan of the show, thank

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you for all you do for us
out here in the field. I have

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a question regarding a bear copper jumper
from the meter temporary riser attached to the

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panel. It failed inspection and I
wanted to understand why it failed if it's

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just a bonding jumper from the meter
to the panel. And also, on

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a side note, it failed for
not having the bonding screw all the ways

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screwed in, even though I know
I did. This. Is this something

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that you see a lot? Okay, so let me let's kind of work

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these in reverse order backwards here.
No, it's not what I see a

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lot, but you know, inspectors
do need to make sure that if this

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is the service, that that main
bonding jumper, if it's of the screw

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type, that it is screwed all
the way in, because there are people

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that leave them unscrewed. Even in
a remote distribution panel. They'll leave them

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or subby as some people like to
say, they'll leave them out, but

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they'll leave them in there. And
I always tell them, you know,

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just go on and take it out. Don't send any mixed signals or anything

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like that about improper case to neutral
issues that you might have. No,

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we don't want any of that,
so you know, it's best to just

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just remove it if it's downstream.
Now, if this is a service,

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okay, and it sounds like it
is, then you most certainly want to

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make sure that you have that main
bonding jumper that would be in this case.

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Since you said it's a screw,
that's probably the green screw that comes

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with the panel that you screwed through
the bus into the threaded entry into the

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enclosure. Okay, that's the main
bonding jumper. So if it looks loose

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and it's totally within the realm of
the inte to say, you know,

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what I need you to tighten that
down. Now, there's some inspectors out

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there that will pull out a screwdriver
and tighten it down. There are I'm

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just I'm just telling you. I'm
not condoning it. I'm just saying there

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are some if that was the only
thing, but then there's many that are

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taught, and you know properly so
by their jurisdiction is you don't touch it

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because the moment you touch it,
somebody's going to blame you for something,

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okay, And we don't need to
increase your liability. So to each his

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own. I'm just telling you how
it is in the real world now dealing

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with the the the other questions.
So one of the things I will tell

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you, and I'll tell this to
everybody, you should never take what an

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inspector gives you if they just fail
you and don't give you a code reference.

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So the first thing that you should
do, especially when you're replying to

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me, is before you even do
that, you need to ask the inspector

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what is the code reference you're feeling
me for. Okay, that's that's the

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first thing. Now, in this
case, if your bonding jumper is going

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from the meter back to the panel, and you already have a grounded conductor

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that's going through there. Of course, in your main panel, you've got

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your main bonding jumper, like we
said, which the intent is to connect

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the equipment grounds to the same bus
that the ground of conductor's coming into,

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ties them together and connects it to
the enclosure. And of course from that

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bus it also goes down to your
grounding electrode, and that would be the

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grounding electrode conductor that goes through that. Okay, that's all pretty common.

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We've done it day in and day
out. And obviously you're in a state

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and you didn't give the code reference. So again I remind everybody, please

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give me code references if you can
that you get issued. But also let

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me know what edition of the code
you're working in, because it does change

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from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty to
twenty twenty three or even earlier. It

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helps, because again I don't want
to assume anything, and since it gave

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no code reference, I'm going to
have to just assume twenty twenty three and

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just roll with it. So if
it was twenty twenty three, then you

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obviously have an issue, right because
it. You basically said, from the

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meter to the panel. Well,
we'll assume that this is an outside outside

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panel then, because it's twenty twenty
three, so we'll assume that you're okay,

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and that's going to be the emergency
disconnect and all that and two thirty

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eighty five. We'll assume you're going
to meet all that. Okay, Now

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an additional bonding jumper from the panel
to the meter when you already have the

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the grounded conductor connecting going over to
the meter. What this could be what

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the inspector could be doing is citing
that this is going to is going to

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bring up what's called parallel paths,
okay, And if he brings up parallel

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paths, then you create something called
objectionable current. So he could be bringing

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up you know that and be talking
about two fifty six. It could be,

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you know, he could be worried
again about the issue of parallel paths.

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For the sense of where you're making
the connections. Since that the meter,

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chances are the grounded conductor is connected
to the enclosure in the meter and

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then of course in the panel.
If you put that main bonding jumper in,

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now you've got that bus connected to
the enclosure which is connected to the

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ground and conductor, So you could
run an issue of parallel paths, right,

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So that could be what he's citing
or she is sighting, But you

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didn't give any code reference, so
I don't know, but you you should

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always ask them for a code reference. Now, one of the big issues

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with this is if you have a
grounded conductor already going back and it's bonded

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in the service and it's making connection
to the actual cabinet of the meter,

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which is all permitted by the way
in two point fifty I believe that is

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making those connections on the supply side
of the services connect. Okay, so

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the neutral can be used for that
application in two fifty two A for example.

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But when you do parallels like and
that's what he's probably looking at,

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is that jumper is basically in parallel
with the neutral, so current traveling back,

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it's you know, in an issue
where if you lost the neutral,

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then you've got this undersized jumper that's
going to complete that path, right,

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and that becomes a hazard. But
also since it's connected to the neutral all

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the way back to the can where
the meter is and everything, then you

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have a potential division of current flow
and a return current. So that could

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be his issue as well. And
we have the same issue many times when

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people have a meter and a panel
and they use a metal raceway and we

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run a ground conductor through it,
and then of course then we have this

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raceway. But again that is something
that we've come to accept. I guess

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I recommend people using PVC between the
meter and the service, but that's something

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we've come to accept. And so
in this case, but an intentional running

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this bonding jumper when the ground to
conductor should be serving that role could create

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a hazard there, So that could
be I encourage you to ask them what

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their code references are and maybe they'll
enlighten you and give you a little more

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detail. And of course I encourage
you to follow up and share more information

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with me or with us the listeners
if you have a follow up to it

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after they provide you with a with
a code reference. Right, So that's

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the best that I'm going to be
able to go on based on your question.

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But thanks for listening to the show, And again hopefully if you have

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a follow up, you can follow
up and let us know that you're making

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a follow up to this episode.
I don't know what episode number this is,

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so you'll be able to tell when
you go listen to the show right

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down the episode. And if you're
going to do a follow up, just

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let me know. Okay, all
right, say if we got something else

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here, Okay, let's see here
another question. It was submitted to,

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Hey, Paul, can a one
building have two separate meters on it?

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One for a shop in one for
an apartment? Sure? So, as

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you know, normally in two thirty
two, the number of services to a

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building is one, and then you've
got some conditions, right, You've got

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special conditions, you've got special occupancies, you got capacity requirements that you mean,

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you've got different characteristics. So in
this case, it's probably the same

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characteristics, probably one twenty two forty. You just want to have one for

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the shop and one for an apartment, right, So there is the ability

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to do that. So typically you're
probably going to have one service to this

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building. But then it's going to
branch out, right, and it's it's

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going to separate out. Now,
what's going to happen is that chances are

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your application at this point is going
to be one where you're like, okay,

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where do I go from here,
and that would be in part four

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of two thirty and you'll be looking
at two thirty dot forty. Now two

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thirty dot forty is since this is
probably two separate occupancies. You got the

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apartment and then of course you got
a shop, then an application, where

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in two thirty dot forty you've got
an exception number one. Well, the

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main part of two thirty dot forty
says each service drop and probably have one

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drop to this or one lateral.
Right, so it says each service drop

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or set of overhead service conductors,
set of underground service conductors, or service

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lateral shall supply only one set of
service entrance conductors. Okay, so in

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this case you're gonna come let's just
say it's an overhead. You gotta have

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a drop that comes over and at
the top where the way their heads are.

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This is where it's going to split
off. And one's going to go

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down and do the apartment and one's
going to come down and do the shop.

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Now they're going to be at the
same location, grouping and all that

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kind of good stuff. But here's
where you get your allowances to be able

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to do that, is right here
under the exceptions. So two exception number

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one, number two, you have
a number three, and you have a

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number four, and you have a
number five. So again you're not going

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to be you know, looking at
this and say, okay, well,

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exception number four is for two family, multi family and multi occupancy buildings right

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right, So again just could be
argued depending on your local zoning. This

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maybe is set up with a separated
divide or wall. Maybe it's two separate

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buildings here, so it's multiple occupancy
building. Okay, So one is the

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apartment and then the other one is
a shop, so they might you might

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use this one. And basically this
is allowing you to be able to have

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as long as you stay outside of
the building, then you can have it

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at that service drop. Then you
could come out and you have separate service

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entrance conductors running down and they're going
to go to the UH service for each

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each separate occupancy. The other one
that you probably will run into again is

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exception number one. An exception number
one says a building with more than one

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occupancy. And again if your zoning
lists, this is a multi occupancy building.

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So you have the apartment on one
side and then you know a shop

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on the other. Then it says
a building with more than one occupancy shall

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be permitted to have one set of
service entrance inductors to each service as permitted

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to thirty dot two run to each
occupancy or group of occupancies if the number

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of service disconnect locations for any given
classification of service does not exceed six.

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So I could have the weatherhead above
come out and go down the riser and

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have the up to six for the
shop, I guess, and then I

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could come down and I have up
to six for the other Okay, but

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it sounds like in your case,
you're just gonna drop down and hit a

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main, and one's going to go
to the shop, and then the other

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one's gonna drop down and hit a
main, and that's going to go to

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the apartment, right, and then
you can change over to feeders and and

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run them to wherever you want to
run them to. That type of thing.

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So again, so the answer your
question, yes, one check with

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your zoning that type of thing to
do that, because you you know it.

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Again, you have to check and
see whether or not you're talking about

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whether there's a firewall and it's two
separate buildings or it's just one one building

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with multiple occupancies, check with them
first. But again you have the allowances

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here. Now, if it has
a firewall and it's two fully separate buildings,

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then you can have a service to
each each can be treated separate.

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Okay, chances are you probably still
going to just have one drop to it.

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But I mean they could be treated
as separate buildings if there's a firewall

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between them. If it's just a
rated wall, it's it's a multi occupancy

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building. Maybe it has just one
address, you know, so because usually

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in a building that is has a
firewall separation, then you're going to have

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separate addresses for each side, let's
say of a building, because that it's

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going to be two separate buildings.
Now, if this is a work living

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space for example, where you have
the apartment upstairs and then downstairs is a

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shop, so you're not going to
have a firewall. You might have a

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two hour rated assembly that runs between
the top and the bottom, but that's

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obviously not a wall, right.
So if that's the case, it's still

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one building, but it's multiple occupancies
within that one building, So you would

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be permitted to have this come from
the outside. Have the service conductor,

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you know, coming down and one
going to one building and one going to

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the other. Right now, since
they are just one building, then you

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still have to do grouping, right
and we're not looking at grouping and two

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thirty dot seventy seventy two thirty dots
seventy one to thirty dot seventy two.

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I believe it's all of those.
Let me go check because it goes yes,

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so the number of disconnects in seventy
one, grouping in seventy two.

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So as long as you meet all
that obviously, but those are your options,

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so yes, depending on what the
occupancy is, and you could you

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know, if it's separate buildings,
then two thirty dot two allows you to

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have separate service to each if you
want. If it is one building with

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separate occupancies in it, then you
need to look at two thirty dot forty

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in the exceptions and see which one
of those might work best for your situation.

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And as always, have a discussion
with your HJ to make sure that

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everybody is on the same page that
type of thing. Okay, hopefully that

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it helps you out with that.
All right, folks, it's gonna be

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all We're gonna try to keep this
one short today as I do have more

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to do, but I don't want
them to get lost in overly long podcasts,

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so that I make sure that I
do address everybody's question. And to

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end off here, I did have
a question from somebody saying, are you

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is it true that you're going to
be making little mini knives that are engraved

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with Electrician on it that are going
to go on a keychain. Okay,

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so they're gonna be neat little knives, and they're gonna be very convenient and

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neat, and they're they're one offs. They're engraved by us here with a

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fiber laser, and they're gonna be
available over on Sparkymafia dot com as well

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as fastracksystem dot com. They will
be available in the next couple weeks as

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we fine tune the fiberlaser down and
get the way we want it. Then

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we've have a lot more graphics that
we're gonna be coming out with, and

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we're gonna be doing different series of
these little knives, so it's gonna be

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like a limited edition type of thing. So hopefully you'll collect all of them.

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They'll be pretty cool, but look
forward to that is what we've got

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coming. We also have minimalless wallets. Again, we're going to have those

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and many other colors. I think
we have green coming obviously, red,

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orange, navy blue, light blue, red, wine colored, I think

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purple, so they look really cool
and the engraved and then you have the

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silver of the aluminum popping through.
They're pretty cool. And we will have

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some more designs here coming out here
in the next week or two and they'll

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all be available to see online and
make your selection if you're interested in those

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wallets. I love my minimalist wallet
and they're by far our best seller of

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the little knickknack stuff that we offer, so anyway, also coming soon,

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we have the little Pocket forty six
and one type of a little neat little

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thing to keep in your minimalist wallet. You can keep it in there or

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in your pocket, and it's awesome. It's a screwdriver, a wrench,

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a cutter. It's just got a
lot of stuff and it's pretty neat.

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Yeah, it's a novelty thing,
but it's pretty cool. So they'll be

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available and I imagine they're they're gonna
be cheap, so imagine they're gonna blow

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out quickly, So just keep looking
for that and it's gonna have our uh

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Sparky Mafia logo uh edged on it. So that's gonna be pretty cool.

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And we have some limited edition flasks
coming out. I'm I'm a I'm a

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softy for a neat, little flat
pocket flask, not like the kind of

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curved ones you normally would see.
These are a little unique. And these

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are you know, gonna hold nine
ounces, Okay, so that'd be awesome.

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That's a that's a good amount to
put some bourbon in or some jack

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in and mix with some coke,
you know, some pepsi or cocola.

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You know, it's nice to have, right especially with the you know,

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first of the year, it's gonna
be nippy out there. So anyway,

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I'm not condoning drinking on the job. This is for after hours, okay,

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So anyway, check those things out. We have so many more things

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00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,039
coming over at sparkymafia dot com.
Go get your free account. We have

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00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:15,960
a neat message board system now,
or kind of like an interactive system that

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00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:19,960
you can post pictures and illustrations and
comment and it's pretty cool, so go

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00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,039
get it. It's free, doesn't
cost you anything to join, so check

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00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:29,119
it out, all right, folks. That's it. Next time we'll chat

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00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:33,319
at you. Remember send your questions
into Paul Abernathy dot com. P A

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00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,359
U L A b E r n
A t h y dot com. Till

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00:21:38,400 --> 00:22:07,759
next time, Stay safe, God
bless you. Stoke Basco, don't