Hey, everybody, Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask Paul, the podcast
where I, Paul Abernathy, attempt to answer you're pressing electrical code related questions,
either in a email or if selected, on an upcoming podcast, much
like today's podcast. Hey, I want to thank everybody out there first before
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over on fastracksystem dot com. I believe that is true. Okay, we're
going to get into some questions today that we're submitted. Again, I'm trying
to catch up to these questions. So again, if you've been waiting for
your question to be answered, uh, you know, just I'm going to
get to them. Just give me a little time. Uh. There's an
awful lot of them, so uh, let's just uh we'll just have to
slowly get through them a little bit at a time. But remember, if
you got a question and you want to send it in, just go ahead
and send it. Go to Paul Abernathy dot com. That's the website Paul
Abernathy A B E R N A T h Y dot com and that's a
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can submit your question on there. I'll remind you if you are a fast
Track student and you're asking something about your program or a question in the course,
uh, make sure you let me know that you're a student. That
type of thing over when you submit your question on Paul Abernathy dot com,
so I can kind of make sure that I validate you and then in order
to bump you to the top of the list. Okay, all right,
Now, if you lie and try to do it and you ain't a study,
and I'll know because I cross reference these things, and then I will
block you and you will never get access to anything. I'm just saying,
all right, So let's get into the day's question. All right, So
this question says, hey, Paul, big fan of the show, thank
you for all you do for us out here in the field. I have
a question regarding a bear copper jumper from the meter temporary riser attached to the
panel. It failed inspection and I wanted to understand why it failed if it's
just a bonding jumper from the meter to the panel. And also, on
a side note, it failed for not having the bonding screw all the ways
screwed in, even though I know I did. This. Is this something
that you see a lot? Okay, so let me let's kind of work
these in reverse order backwards here. No, it's not what I see a
lot, but you know, inspectors do need to make sure that if this
is the service, that that main bonding jumper, if it's of the screw
type, that it is screwed all the way in, because there are people
that leave them unscrewed. Even in a remote distribution panel. They'll leave them
or subby as some people like to say, they'll leave them out, but
they'll leave them in there. And I always tell them, you know,
just go on and take it out. Don't send any mixed signals or anything
like that about improper case to neutral issues that you might have. No,
we don't want any of that, so you know, it's best to just
just remove it if it's downstream. Now, if this is a service,
okay, and it sounds like it is, then you most certainly want to
make sure that you have that main bonding jumper that would be in this case.
Since you said it's a screw, that's probably the green screw that comes
with the panel that you screwed through the bus into the threaded entry into the
enclosure. Okay, that's the main bonding jumper. So if it looks loose
and it's totally within the realm of the inte to say, you know,
what I need you to tighten that down. Now, there's some inspectors out
there that will pull out a screwdriver and tighten it down. There are I'm
just I'm just telling you. I'm not condoning it. I'm just saying there
are some if that was the only thing, but then there's many that are
taught, and you know properly so by their jurisdiction is you don't touch it
because the moment you touch it, somebody's going to blame you for something,
okay, And we don't need to increase your liability. So to each his
own. I'm just telling you how it is in the real world now dealing
with the the the other questions. So one of the things I will tell
you, and I'll tell this to everybody, you should never take what an
inspector gives you if they just fail you and don't give you a code reference.
So the first thing that you should do, especially when you're replying to
me, is before you even do that, you need to ask the inspector
what is the code reference you're feeling me for. Okay, that's that's the
first thing. Now, in this case, if your bonding jumper is going
from the meter back to the panel, and you already have a grounded conductor
that's going through there. Of course, in your main panel, you've got
your main bonding jumper, like we said, which the intent is to connect
the equipment grounds to the same bus that the ground of conductor's coming into,
ties them together and connects it to the enclosure. And of course from that
bus it also goes down to your grounding electrode, and that would be the
grounding electrode conductor that goes through that. Okay, that's all pretty common.
We've done it day in and day out. And obviously you're in a state
and you didn't give the code reference. So again I remind everybody, please
give me code references if you can that you get issued. But also let
me know what edition of the code you're working in, because it does change
from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty to twenty twenty three or even earlier. It
helps, because again I don't want to assume anything, and since it gave
no code reference, I'm going to have to just assume twenty twenty three and
just roll with it. So if it was twenty twenty three, then you
obviously have an issue, right because it. You basically said, from the
meter to the panel. Well, we'll assume that this is an outside outside
panel then, because it's twenty twenty three, so we'll assume that you're okay,
and that's going to be the emergency disconnect and all that and two thirty
eighty five. We'll assume you're going to meet all that. Okay, Now
an additional bonding jumper from the panel to the meter when you already have the
the grounded conductor connecting going over to the meter. What this could be what
the inspector could be doing is citing that this is going to is going to
bring up what's called parallel paths, okay, And if he brings up parallel
paths, then you create something called objectionable current. So he could be bringing
up you know that and be talking about two fifty six. It could be,
you know, he could be worried again about the issue of parallel paths.
For the sense of where you're making the connections. Since that the meter,
chances are the grounded conductor is connected to the enclosure in the meter and
then of course in the panel. If you put that main bonding jumper in,
now you've got that bus connected to the enclosure which is connected to the
ground and conductor, So you could run an issue of parallel paths, right,
So that could be what he's citing or she is sighting, But you
didn't give any code reference, so I don't know, but you you should
always ask them for a code reference. Now, one of the big issues
with this is if you have a grounded conductor already going back and it's bonded
in the service and it's making connection to the actual cabinet of the meter,
which is all permitted by the way in two point fifty I believe that is
making those connections on the supply side of the services connect. Okay, so
the neutral can be used for that application in two fifty two A for example.
But when you do parallels like and that's what he's probably looking at,
is that jumper is basically in parallel with the neutral, so current traveling back,
it's you know, in an issue where if you lost the neutral,
then you've got this undersized jumper that's going to complete that path, right,
and that becomes a hazard. But also since it's connected to the neutral all
the way back to the can where the meter is and everything, then you
have a potential division of current flow and a return current. So that could
be his issue as well. And we have the same issue many times when
people have a meter and a panel and they use a metal raceway and we
run a ground conductor through it, and then of course then we have this
raceway. But again that is something that we've come to accept. I guess
I recommend people using PVC between the meter and the service, but that's something
we've come to accept. And so in this case, but an intentional running
this bonding jumper when the ground to conductor should be serving that role could create
a hazard there, So that could be I encourage you to ask them what
their code references are and maybe they'll enlighten you and give you a little more
detail. And of course I encourage you to follow up and share more information
with me or with us the listeners if you have a follow up to it
after they provide you with a with a code reference. Right, So that's
the best that I'm going to be able to go on based on your question.
But thanks for listening to the show, And again hopefully if you have
a follow up, you can follow up and let us know that you're making
a follow up to this episode. I don't know what episode number this is,
so you'll be able to tell when you go listen to the show right
down the episode. And if you're going to do a follow up, just
let me know. Okay, all right, say if we got something else
here, Okay, let's see here another question. It was submitted to,
Hey, Paul, can a one building have two separate meters on it?
One for a shop in one for an apartment? Sure? So, as
you know, normally in two thirty two, the number of services to a
building is one, and then you've got some conditions, right, You've got
special conditions, you've got special occupancies, you got capacity requirements that you mean,
you've got different characteristics. So in this case, it's probably the same
characteristics, probably one twenty two forty. You just want to have one for
the shop and one for an apartment, right, So there is the ability
to do that. So typically you're probably going to have one service to this
building. But then it's going to branch out, right, and it's it's
going to separate out. Now, what's going to happen is that chances are
your application at this point is going to be one where you're like, okay,
where do I go from here, and that would be in part four
of two thirty and you'll be looking at two thirty dot forty. Now two
thirty dot forty is since this is probably two separate occupancies. You got the
apartment and then of course you got a shop, then an application, where
in two thirty dot forty you've got an exception number one. Well, the
main part of two thirty dot forty says each service drop and probably have one
drop to this or one lateral. Right, so it says each service drop
or set of overhead service conductors, set of underground service conductors, or service
lateral shall supply only one set of service entrance conductors. Okay, so in
this case you're gonna come let's just say it's an overhead. You gotta have
a drop that comes over and at the top where the way their heads are.
This is where it's going to split off. And one's going to go
down and do the apartment and one's going to come down and do the shop.
Now they're going to be at the same location, grouping and all that
kind of good stuff. But here's where you get your allowances to be able
to do that, is right here under the exceptions. So two exception number
one, number two, you have a number three, and you have a
number four, and you have a number five. So again you're not going
to be you know, looking at this and say, okay, well,
exception number four is for two family, multi family and multi occupancy buildings right
right, So again just could be argued depending on your local zoning. This
maybe is set up with a separated divide or wall. Maybe it's two separate
buildings here, so it's multiple occupancy building. Okay, So one is the
apartment and then the other one is a shop, so they might you might
use this one. And basically this is allowing you to be able to have
as long as you stay outside of the building, then you can have it
at that service drop. Then you could come out and you have separate service
entrance conductors running down and they're going to go to the UH service for each
each separate occupancy. The other one that you probably will run into again is
exception number one. An exception number one says a building with more than one
occupancy. And again if your zoning lists, this is a multi occupancy building.
So you have the apartment on one side and then you know a shop
on the other. Then it says a building with more than one occupancy shall
be permitted to have one set of service entrance inductors to each service as permitted
to thirty dot two run to each occupancy or group of occupancies if the number
of service disconnect locations for any given classification of service does not exceed six.
So I could have the weatherhead above come out and go down the riser and
have the up to six for the shop, I guess, and then I
could come down and I have up to six for the other Okay, but
it sounds like in your case, you're just gonna drop down and hit a
main, and one's going to go to the shop, and then the other
one's gonna drop down and hit a main, and that's going to go to
the apartment, right, and then you can change over to feeders and and
run them to wherever you want to run them to. That type of thing.
So again, so the answer your question, yes, one check with
your zoning that type of thing to do that, because you you know it.
Again, you have to check and see whether or not you're talking about
whether there's a firewall and it's two separate buildings or it's just one one building
with multiple occupancies, check with them first. But again you have the allowances
here. Now, if it has a firewall and it's two fully separate buildings,
then you can have a service to each each can be treated separate.
Okay, chances are you probably still going to just have one drop to it.
But I mean they could be treated as separate buildings if there's a firewall
between them. If it's just a rated wall, it's it's a multi occupancy
building. Maybe it has just one address, you know, so because usually
in a building that is has a firewall separation, then you're going to have
separate addresses for each side, let's say of a building, because that it's
going to be two separate buildings. Now, if this is a work living
space for example, where you have the apartment upstairs and then downstairs is a
shop, so you're not going to have a firewall. You might have a
two hour rated assembly that runs between the top and the bottom, but that's
obviously not a wall, right. So if that's the case, it's still
one building, but it's multiple occupancies within that one building, So you would
be permitted to have this come from the outside. Have the service conductor,
you know, coming down and one going to one building and one going to
the other. Right now, since they are just one building, then you
still have to do grouping, right and we're not looking at grouping and two
thirty dot seventy seventy two thirty dots seventy one to thirty dot seventy two.
I believe it's all of those. Let me go check because it goes yes,
so the number of disconnects in seventy one, grouping in seventy two.
So as long as you meet all that obviously, but those are your options,
so yes, depending on what the occupancy is, and you could you
know, if it's separate buildings, then two thirty dot two allows you to
have separate service to each if you want. If it is one building with
separate occupancies in it, then you need to look at two thirty dot forty
in the exceptions and see which one of those might work best for your situation.
And as always, have a discussion with your HJ to make sure that
everybody is on the same page that type of thing. Okay, hopefully that
it helps you out with that. All right, folks, it's gonna be
all We're gonna try to keep this one short today as I do have more
to do, but I don't want them to get lost in overly long podcasts,
so that I make sure that I do address everybody's question. And to
end off here, I did have a question from somebody saying, are you
is it true that you're going to be making little mini knives that are engraved
with Electrician on it that are going to go on a keychain. Okay,
so they're gonna be neat little knives, and they're gonna be very convenient and
neat, and they're they're one offs. They're engraved by us here with a
fiber laser, and they're gonna be available over on Sparkymafia dot com as well
as fastracksystem dot com. They will be available in the next couple weeks as
we fine tune the fiberlaser down and get the way we want it. Then
we've have a lot more graphics that we're gonna be coming out with, and
we're gonna be doing different series of these little knives, so it's gonna be
like a limited edition type of thing. So hopefully you'll collect all of them.
They'll be pretty cool, but look forward to that is what we've got
coming. We also have minimalless wallets. Again, we're going to have those
and many other colors. I think we have green coming obviously, red,
orange, navy blue, light blue, red, wine colored, I think
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some more designs here coming out here in the next week or two and they'll
all be available to see online and make your selection if you're interested in those
wallets. I love my minimalist wallet and they're by far our best seller of
the little knickknack stuff that we offer, so anyway, also coming soon,
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Yeah, it's a novelty thing, but it's pretty cool. So they'll be
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out quickly, So just keep looking for that and it's gonna have our uh
Sparky Mafia logo uh edged on it. So that's gonna be pretty cool.
And we have some limited edition flasks coming out. I'm I'm a I'm a
softy for a neat, little flat pocket flask, not like the kind of
curved ones you normally would see. These are a little unique. And these
are you know, gonna hold nine ounces, Okay, so that'd be awesome.
That's a that's a good amount to put some bourbon in or some jack
in and mix with some coke, you know, some pepsi or cocola.
You know, it's nice to have, right especially with the you know,
first of the year, it's gonna be nippy out there. So anyway,
I'm not condoning drinking on the job. This is for after hours, okay,
So anyway, check those things out. We have so many more things
coming over at sparkymafia dot com. Go get your free account. We have
a neat message board system now, or kind of like an interactive system that
you can post pictures and illustrations and comment and it's pretty cool, so go
get it. It's free, doesn't cost you anything to join, so check
it out, all right, folks. That's it. Next time we'll chat
at you. Remember send your questions into Paul Abernathy dot com. P A
U L A b E r n A t h y dot com. Till
next time, Stay safe, God bless you. Stoke Basco, don't