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You know, the cannabis market is
perhaps ten percent, maybe five percent therapeutic,

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ninety five percent recreational. I would
say more psychedotics are the other way

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around, right, It's going to
be ninety percent therapeutic and probably ten percent

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recreational. You're listening to Carrie Leutz's
Financial Survival Network, where you get valuable

5
00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,559
information you just can't find anywhere else
to thrive in today's trying times. You

6
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:32,280
need the Financial Survival Network now more
than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork dot

7
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com and get your free newsletter and
gift. Financial Survival Network now more than

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00:00:39,119 --> 00:00:47,200
ever, And welcome you are listening
to and watching the Financial Survival Network.

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I'm yours Garry Lutz. Hey,
you know there's all sorts of new novel

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treatments coming out for many things.
There's a mental health crisis in North America

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probably across the planet, and we
have done very little at addressing this concern.

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And just look at the number of
homeless people in urban areas throughout not

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just the United States, but North
America around the world, and imagine if

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there was some inexpensive and like widely
tested drones that that could help solve this

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mental crisis. This mental health crisis. How much? How much would society

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benefit from that? Well, Benjamin
Lightburn is with us now and he is

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the CEO of Filament Health. That's
fi LA m nt dot hell. It's

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traded publicly traded company FH. It's
on the CBOE of Canada. Ben,

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it's great to have you on the
show. So psychedelics treating these widespread mental

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health issues relatively new approach which seems
to be seems to be effective in many

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cases, doesn't it. It does
seem to be effective, But I actually

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want to correct you, it's not
very big do right. So when you

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think about humans using psychedelics for various
purposes, there's documented evidence of this going

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back for thousands of years, right, be it spiritual, cultural, you

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know, shamanistic things. You can
see mushroom statues in meso America, you

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can see paintings of magic mushrooms,
things like that. And in fact,

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even in the modern era, we
did actually have psychedelics in relatively wide use

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in the beginning in the thirties,
forties and fifties and sixties, until of

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course that was all shut down once
the kind of genie got out of the

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bottle and the psychedelic movement became associated
with the counterculture and the anti war movement,

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and then of course we had the
War on drug and basically the criminalization

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of all drug related activity. But
you are definitely right in posing the question,

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you know, what kind of harm
to the society might have been avoided

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if we had had broader access to
these substances for the last five or so

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decades. But in any event,
in the last few years, maybe in

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the last decade or so, we
have seen a very strong resurgence in the

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amount of research and the amount of
studies being done with these substances. And

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in some cases you're even seeing certain
jurisdictions allow people to be medically treated with

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these substances in a kind of like
pre approval, early access or early access

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basis. So it is definitely a
very exciting time for the psychedelics industry and

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hopefully a very exciting time for society
as certain of these psychedelic substances look to

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be approved as drugs over the next
couple of years. So interesting, So

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tell us the results treating mental health
issues, How effective psychedelics have been and

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how effective are they compared to other
approaches? Great question, So so far

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the the indication the disease areas that
are most advanced in clinical development would be

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the PTSD and depression MPMA in the
case of PTSD, and and psilocybin for

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depression in the first case. We're
seeing, you know, roughly like a

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sixty percent remission rate for people with
PTSD. It's just very very high considering

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there really are slim to know approved
therapies for people currently suffering from PTSD.

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So it's very very very promising.
And you know, it's important to remember

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that these drugs are always given in
conjunction with some form of therapy or psychological

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support. Like it's not as if, you know, very sick people are

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being given powerful hallucinogenic substances and just
told to go on their merry way and

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hope we're the best, right.
There's always you know, strict procedures and

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protocols in place to ensure the safety
of everybody. Really in the area of

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depression, you're seeing big reduction of
depression scores after after three weeks or twelve

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weeks, whatever the case, may
be very very promising, you know,

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higher typically than what you would see
for the predominant depression treatment, which is

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of course SSRIs. Many people aren't
familiar with the SSRIs because something like fifteen

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percent of North Americans actually take them. These are drugs that you tink every

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single day. They're drugs that often
come with side effects like weight gain or

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sexual dysfunction, or just general foggy
headedness. And the other interesting thing about

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SSRIs is that they only have a
one third chance of working any given time

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around, and they only have a
sixty five percent chance of working even after

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attempting multiple different courses of SSRIs.
And it takes a couple of months sometimes

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to become stable. So someone's journey
to go through different SSRIs can actually last

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years, whereas what we're talking about
for psilocybin therapy is the single dose and

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with therapy and these can have effects
that last for for several months. In

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the area of substance serious disorders,
which is where Billman is focused, we're

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seeing very exciting research coming out.
There was a big study that came from

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NYU where in alcohol use disorder where
they showed it eighty three percent reduction in

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heavy drip drinking days amongst people who
are regularly abused alcohol. You have early

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data in smoking cessation. You also
have preliminary data in cocaine use disorder,

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all of which are showing really just
amazing results. And so again it's a

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very very exciting time for psychedelics and
maybe hopefully even for society as some of

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these drugs get approved over the next
few years. Interesting the substance abuse that

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can really reduce you know, these
SSRIs after you take them for like ten

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years, that cause many people to
become bipolar as a result too, right,

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well, and they have there's withdrawal
symptoms, right, so if you

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try to get off or you try
to switch, it's not necessarily straightforward.

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So it's as tsurized our big issue
for sure, for sure. And as

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far as other forms of therapy talk
therapy and all that, those have really

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low success rates. Right. We
know that they work, but that their

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success can be limited. Right,
So really what we're talking about is a

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whole new treatment paradigm. Right.
It's it's a it's a it's it's a

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new thing, right. It's it's
not you know, like you said,

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you know, one hour a week
of talking to a therapist. It's a

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kind of like intensive therapy of high
dose psiocybin where you are you know,

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typically lying on a couch and someone
incapacitated and left, you know, to

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deal with your own thoughts. But
people report that psychedelics have a way of

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showing you, you know, things
about yourself that you probably already knew deep

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down inside somewhere. But it's kind
of like a tool which like shows shows

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you the way internally right and and
allows you to have, you know,

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certain insights and discoveries about yourself that
you may not otherwise have had. Do

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we have any idea how these things
actually work from a metabolic standpoint or we

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just know from the results. The
short answer is no. The long answer

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is that there are many different things
currently being hypothesized. The predominant theory is

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that they are serotonin receptor agonists,
so they mimbic serotonin in the brain and

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activate the serotonin receptors, and that
is kind of what it is thought to

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cause the flooding feeling, the hallucinogenic
you know, the response, the the

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different visuals and auditory hallucinations. But
there is research that shows that, you

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know, maybe not research, but
reports of certain people that have you know,

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not had these kinds of hallucinogen responses
and yet still had a therapeutic treatment.

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Outcome. Or there was a study
that came out the other day in

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mice where they had mice that were
genetically modified to not have five HTQWOA receptors,

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and yet they still exhibited antidepressed effects
from psychedelics. So, like I

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said, the short answers, we
don't actually really know why or how it

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works, but we do. What
we do know is that people that have

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these experiences, they regularly as cided
as like the top one or two most

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impactful experiences of their entire life.
Right, they say, doing this was

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similar to witnessing the birth of my
child, or getting Mira, or watching

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a cross close friend die or something
like that. Right, these these experiences

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rank among the most important people's lives. They're just going to share something with

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my personal experience. Not with a
loose engens but weight loss drug a zempic.

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I took that. You know,
I was like twelve thirteen pounds from

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my goal weight. I just couldn't
get rid of it, and I said,

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okay, I'm going to take it
for two three months. Hopefully too

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bad side effects, but some of
the unintended side effects. Number one,

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I'm not a big drinker, but
you know, a moderate drinker two three

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times a week, one or two
drinks. I found that it like cut

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that in half. And then for
coffee, I am a I was a

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pretty substantial coffee drinker, to three
cups a day. I'm down to one

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cup a day. And it's the
weirdest thing then, because it's just like

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I had no desire to cut my
alcohol consumption or my caffeine consumption, and

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yet it just made me not want
it really strange here, and now they're

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saying it works for cocaine in certain
people as well, so maybe some multi

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fascinating type approach. I just think
it's interesting that all these drugs are here,

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and you know, they're being prescribed
and used, and yet we don't

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really know what they what they do. You know, it's a kind of

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like a theoretical question, you know, how much do we need to know

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about how something works rather than if
it works now and just having the results.

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And this gets back to your question
that the beginning was about, well,

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how do you even do a FLA
see what control study with psychedelics.

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So the water is further muddied by
the fact that you could claim that that

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that psychedelics don't in fact work and
that it's all just expectancy bias from the

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participants. And so that is one
further complication to the argument. Well,

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if it were who cares how or
why? Yeah, if it's placebo,

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it's good placebo, right, But
it's unethical to prescribe people placebo, even

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if you know it's going to make
them better. Yeah. Yeah, Well,

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you know there's a limit to double
blind studies, Like, you know,

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they never did double blind studies on
parachutes. You know, you really

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want to prove that parachutes save lives, then you should do a double blind

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study. But nobody's jumping out of
a plane without a parachute, right.

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So well, just like it's impossible
to do research on what is the safe

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amount of alcohol for a pregnant woman
to consume, right, right, you

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can just prescribe one group to take
tons of alcohol at another one to take

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no alcohol and figure out what's the
safe limit. And so we assume that

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we just take the most safest case, which is that no alcohol is safe.

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Right. And in this case,
as long as we know that drugs

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are safe, right, I mean
band trips and things like that, you

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know, we don't so much see
that with non uh, synthetic hallucinogens do

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00:14:11,399 --> 00:14:18,120
it well. A lot of people
actually would push back on the idea of

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bad trip, right because many people
would say that it's actually the sort of

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like negative experiences and past traumatic experiences
and all these kinds of things coming to

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the surface and having a challenging experience
that this may actually be the intended consequence

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of doing psilocybin therapy. Right.
So it's it's kind of like a no

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pain, no gain situation, right, Like if you have a lot of

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you know, baggage or you know, emotional trauma or things that are holding

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you back and causing you blockages,
it does stand to reason that you know,

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to work through all this will be
difficult and will be like like people,

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00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,480
aren't you don't really do like these
high dose psychedelics. It's not really

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like fun. It's not really like
recreation doll. It's not really like,

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hey, let's like eat some mushrooms
and go into the woods and watch the

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northern lights. It's you know,
we're this is this is definitely not that

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right. This is like a tool
that kind of forces you to confront your

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demon's head on and and and and
there's no escape and so it can be

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very challenging and overwhelming, but many
people would say that that's actually the very

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point of the whole action. Do
people have the psychotic breaks on these hallucinogens?

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Has that ever happened it? I
think there have been one or two

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things that have been reported like that, But often you will see that this

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person may have had a predisposition to
those occurrences, and so it may have

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actually just kind of like reawakened something
that was dormant. You also have something

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called persistent hallucination disorders, people that
report like even a year year after their

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psychedelic experience that they may have like
little flashes of hallucination. So this is

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something that persists in a small fraction
of people that undergo psychedelic therapy as well.

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Wow, all right, well I
think we should cover this topic.

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As far as the company goes,
at what point does it become profitable and

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you know, start putting out sizeable
returns? What's the milestone for that?

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The catalyst? So currently our drugs
we are in phase two, and so

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we need to complete phase two and
then complete phase three, and then after

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that we would be submitting a new
drug application to begin marketing the drugs.

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So I would say probably a fair
estimate would be four or five years away

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for us to finish all of that, but we've already been through all the

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pre clinical and phase one, so
we're we're marching right along. Another unique

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00:17:00,519 --> 00:17:06,279
thing about our company is that because
we manufacture our drugs naturally, and we

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00:17:06,279 --> 00:17:08,480
were the first to do so,
we've been able to claim a lot of

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very valuable IP We have over twenty
five issued patents now, and what's what

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that's been able to do is allow
us to enter into revenue generating licensing agreements.

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So unlike most kind of junior biotech
companies, we actually are already revenue

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positive, revenue generating. We're not
profitable yet, but there would be a

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path for us to generate significant revenues
before actually getting our own drugs approved,

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which is which is quite a unique
aspect of our Yes, very much so,

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Hey, one final question for you, and that covers the topic of

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microadocing, which I know isn't related
to what you're doing here, but I'm

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curious if there's been studies on microdocing, if it helps anymore, whether you

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need the large dose to get the
maximum benefit. That is another one of

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the big unanswered questions in psychedelics whether
or not microdosing works. A lot of

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people swear by it right, A
lot of people say it really helps them.

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A lot of people say it saved
their life. There hasn't been much

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good quality research done on microdosing,
especially in people who are sick right where

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you can actually measure outcomes. We
actually have a couple of microdosing studies where

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00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:36,200
we're supplying drugs to which will hope
to overcome this deficiency in the microdosing research.

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So I would say the jury is
still out there. Most people would

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probably say most like scientific researchers,
would probably say there's not really any evidence

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to support it. But you know, people on the street, a a

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00:18:48,599 --> 00:18:51,599
lot of people out there swear by
it. And if it does work,

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00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:56,440
it would be huge because it's much
easier for people to take once a day

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00:18:56,519 --> 00:19:00,440
small dose that they barely feel,
than it is for them to take like

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00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:06,240
the very high dose that require supervision
that needs to be kind of like a

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semi medical setting. Sure, I
find the whole thing fascinating. It's a

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shame that all the research into psychedelics
was basically aulted in the sixties due to

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00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:27,559
the widespread I guess distribution of LSD
and other hallucinogens, and now it's kind

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00:19:27,559 --> 00:19:32,960
of being rediscovered. I knew there
were studies that took place and have been

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00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,759
taking place throughout the past fifty or
sixty years, but nowhere near what's going

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00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:42,680
on right now. And the fact
that you know it's going back quite a

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00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:48,200
while now. When they finally loosened
up on the research and we see these

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00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:53,440
things are beneficial, I guess it
creates a whole host of problems to the

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00:19:53,519 --> 00:19:59,559
regulators there letting the genie out of
the bottle. The one thing I will

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00:19:59,599 --> 00:20:07,799
say, where like drug legalization,
is many many health benefits have been espoused

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00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:14,039
for cannabis, and really the research
what I've seen, other than perhaps some

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00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,559
pain relief aspects and seizure reduction,
I just haven't seen the research prove it

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00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:23,279
out. Hallucinogens. On the other
hand, you know, most of these

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00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:30,640
studies and that haven't been extensive,
have shown great benefits with some risk,

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00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:37,440
but moderate risk. Agreed. I
think people often try to draw parallels between

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00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,400
cannabis and psychedelics, and there certainly
are many, but there are many differences

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00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:48,000
as well. My opinion is that
in psychedelics, you actually kind of have

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00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:53,440
the medical efficacy, which is kind
of dragging psychedelotics skicking and screaming into the

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00:20:53,480 --> 00:21:00,240
mainstream. Whereas for cannabis, the
medical efficacy was like, maye be a

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00:21:00,319 --> 00:21:04,880
tool to kind of legitimize recreational use, Whereas you know, we should have

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00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,839
just said people should be free to
use cannabis recreationally, and we don't need

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00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,960
any pretend fake ghoma prescriptions or anything
like that, right, we should just

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00:21:15,079 --> 00:21:17,359
let people smoke weed if they want
to smoke weed, right, Like,

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00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,039
this is the mand of the free
supposedly, right. So I would agree

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00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:26,839
with you that many of the claimed
medical benefits of cannabis definitely did not come

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00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:33,079
to pass, although it is important
remember that there are very important and highly

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00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:37,799
efficacious cannabinoid based drugs that are out
on the market. Right, But I

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00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:41,000
would like I would say that,
you know, the cannabis market is perhaps

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00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:47,720
ten percent, maybe five percent therapeutic, ninety five percent recreational. I would

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00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,440
say for psychedelics the other way around, Right, it's going to be ninety

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00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:56,279
percent therapeutic and probably ten percent recreational. And it's interesting because you look in

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00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:06,920
the in the drug books cannabis is
classified as a llucin egen, but I

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00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,559
don't know exactly what that means.
In the case of cannabis. All the

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00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,079
scheduling system is so ridiculously out of
date, right, Like, all these

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00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:19,720
substances are Schedule one controlled substances,
saying that they have a high potential for

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00:22:19,759 --> 00:22:25,720
abuse and no accepted medical benefit,
and both of those things are just completely

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00:22:25,759 --> 00:22:30,359
untrue, right you. You even
have the FDA that designated psilocybin to breakthrough

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00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:36,880
therapy, right So it's it's ridiculous, honestly, and it's it's it's it's

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00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,200
kind of embarrassing for sure. And
before microdosing, there really were no long

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00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:48,640
term leucin engen abusers out there.
You know. It's generally a thing that

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00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,680
goes on a cycle. Whatever they
take it. It's not a long term

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00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:59,079
abuse drug. So all of that's
really fascinating. They just tell us the

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00:22:59,079 --> 00:23:03,519
best place to find you connect with
you on the web, Ben head to

253
00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:07,279
our website Filament dot health. Side
up for our mailing list comes out usually

254
00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:12,319
every Thursday or every other Thursday,
and obviously look us up on all of

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00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:17,200
the normal social media channels. Filament
and dot health all right. Excellent,

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00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:22,160
And there's a link in the show
notes to your website on Financial Survival Network

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00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,440
dot com and when you go there
sign up for your free newsletter. BET

258
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,839
been a real pleasure. Thank you
so much for coming by, Thanks so

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00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:34,599
much, thanks for listening to Carrie
Letz's Financial Survival Network, your solution to

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00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:41,200
today's trying times. For the latest, go to Financial Survivalnetwork dot com.

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00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,079
Financial Survival Network now more than ever,