WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:04.120 We already know that it's good to eat greens, to eat lots of vegetables, 2 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:09.279 but if these vegetables were produced in an industrial system with lots of chemicals 3 00:00:09.279 --> 00:00:13.839 where they're actually growing unhealthy plants, then you eating that is not actually going 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:20.920 to improve your health. You're listening to the Plant Based Diet podcast where we 5 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:24.640 talk about all things plant based. I'm mister Garfrom, the host of this 6 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:29.120 show and founder of Alternative Food Network. Join me in my amazing array of 7 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:33.799 guests who are a mix of healthcare professionals, industry executives, and people with 8 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.039 an interesting story to tell about their plant based journey. Let us help you 9 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:42.000 with your journey wherever you're at to learn the what, why, and how 10 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:47.280 to eat plant based. Hello, plant Based Diet friends. I just happened 11 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:51.119 to check some metrics about the show and saw that Plant Based Diet is a 12 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:57.000 top two and a half percent show across all podcasts. So thanks to all 13 00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:02.000 of you for listening. You have helped make this happen. In today's episode, 14 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:06.640 we're going to be talking about gardening with a focus on soil quality and 15 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:11.319 mulch because they are crucial building blocks of a garden and Frankly, there are 16 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:15.159 two things I don't know much about. So my guest, Matthew Mahoys, 17 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:19.239 is coming to the rescue to help me and hopefully you, so we can 18 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:25.200 learn a little bit more about this. He's an award winning author and passionate 19 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:32.680 landscape architect who crafts environments that mary esthetics with positive environmental impact. Before we 20 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:36.519 get started, thank you to the presenting sponsor of this series, Prolon. 21 00:01:37.000 --> 00:01:41.200 You've heard me explain Prolon's fast like diet in previous episodes, but there's something 22 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:45.439 interesting that just came out. There's a recent study that found that Prolon may 23 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:49.120 help reduce your bioage score by two and a half years. I'll put a 24 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:53.439 link in the show notes if you're interested in finding out more. If you'd 25 00:01:53.439 --> 00:01:57.000 like to try it, ProLAN is offering the plant based diet listeners a fifteen 26 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.920 percent discount using promo code A fifteen. Just click the link in the episode 27 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:07.840 description and type in code AFN one five to get fifteen percent off your order. 28 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:09.960 If you use the link, we may receive a small commission from your 29 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:15.560 purchase. Welcome to the show, Matthew. It's so nice to meet you. 30 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:19.280 You're all the way in Belgium. Right, yes, exactly. Thank 31 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:22.960 you for having me on your show. I'm very excited about this interview. 32 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:25.400 I love the work that you're doing, so really cool to be on this 33 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:30.400 show. Thank you. So you're a landscape architect. Tell me a little 34 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:34.639 how you got into that. I grew up on a family farm, so 35 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:38.240 my brother and my fathers are still active farmers today, and somewhere between the 36 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:43.919 age of three to five years old, I got extremely fascinated about how it 37 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:46.479 is even possible that if you have a little seed and you put it in 38 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:51.080 contact with the soil, that it can grow into a plant, in some 39 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:54.319 cases even into a huge tree. Like between that age from three to five, 40 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:59.039 I started to realize that and I was just completely amazed by it. 41 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:02.719 And that amazement because I'd see my father go out on the fields, we'd 42 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:07.000 see how the crops grow. I kind of grew up with that. Right 43 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:10.120 at that time, I also had a school teacher and we were doing a 44 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:15.840 lot with seeding plants in the classroom. She's very knowledgeable about this, and 45 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:20.759 I came home from school and said to my mother, I want to start 46 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:23.599 my own vegetable garden on the farm. At that time, we didn't have 47 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:30.280 any vegetables growing actively growing, because most was cash crops and cattle. So 48 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:34.280 I said, I want to start growing vegetables out of the blue, and 49 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:37.439 my parents were like, yeah, but we don't have space in the garden. 50 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:39.919 But I kept asking about it, and eventually I got a piece of 51 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:46.560 the garden and I started my gardening journey. And the amazing success that I 52 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:50.800 had was with radishes. So I started off with radishes, and this is 53 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:54.560 something that I can highly recommend to anybody who wants to start a vegetable garden. 54 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:59.360 Just start with radishes. It's the easiest thing ever to grow. After 55 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:02.879 a couple of weeks, you already have something that you can eat. Now. 56 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:05.680 I had that early success and then I thought like, okay, I 57 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:10.280 have things figured out here. It's so easy to be a vegetable gardener. 58 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:14.800 I'm just gonna buy all of these seeds. Got it. Like my father 59 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:18.040 went to the shop, tomatoes, lattice, carrots, everything. I bought 60 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:19.959 it all, and I thought like, okay, now I'm just going to 61 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:24.879 spread this in my newly designed garden. Because at that time I was also 62 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:30.120 fascinated about like making a shape and putting tiles in the garden and making all 63 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.040 the bats. So I had everything prepared, prepared the soil, and then 64 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:36.560 I just started spreading all the seeds everywhere, and I was like, this 65 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:40.360 is amazing. I'll come back in a couple of weeks. It'll be full 66 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:44.879 of vegetables, full of produce, and I can enjoy everything. But I 67 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:48.360 think aster you already feel what's coming next. After a couple of weeks, 68 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:54.079 I returned to the garden. It's just overgrown by wheats, and like big 69 00:04:54.199 --> 00:04:58.560 nasty wheats. Because also the type of soil that the farm is on, 70 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.040 it's heavy clay soil, which is a very rich soil, but it's hard 71 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:03.879 to work with. So we also added a lot of composts to kind of 72 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:10.079 make it softer. That was with the help of my grandmother. So we 73 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:13.040 did that and it was overgrown by wheats, and from that day on, 74 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:16.000 I actually, well, it took obviously some more time, but from that 75 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:19.959 moment on, I really wanted to understand, like, why is nature not 76 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:25.439 giving me vegetables, Why is all these wheats growing? So I went on 77 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:29.680 in my later life to study landscape architecture to understand more about nature. I 78 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:34.319 did permaculture courses, I started to learn about regenerative farming because I'm also working 79 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:40.000 with farmers in my day to day business. And from that, Yeah, 80 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.720 this was really like the thread in my life to know that once you understand 81 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:47.920 how nature works, because it's been working in a specific way for over millions 82 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:51.600 of years. Once you have that knowledge, you can become a way more 83 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:58.759 successful and way more low maintenance gardner because there's no way, like you can 84 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:01.920 try and fight against nature, but it's going to be very hard and it's 85 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:06.720 very bad for your back, so there's other ways of doing it. In 86 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:12.279 your bio, I read that you aim to empower people to transform their gardens 87 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:19.040 into spaces that foster biodiversity and restore ecosystems. That sounds amazing, but my 88 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:25.560 question is can this be done while still being low maintenance. Yes, definitely. 89 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:30.600 In fact, you have to do it to be truly low maintenance because 90 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:34.319 and obviously you have to kind of you have to be thoughtful of your design 91 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:39.040 process of your garden, like if you want to do it more vegetables, 92 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:42.879 or if you want to grow more flowers, but generally, if you focus 93 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:46.319 on creating more biodiversity, what you'll do is you basically start to mimicing how 94 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:50.399 nature works. And once you start mimicking how nature works, there's a system 95 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:54.600 that starts to get into place. And obviously it's not an overnight thing. 96 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:59.079 It does need some work in the beginning, especially in the first couple of 97 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.240 years. But once you get a system that starts to run more like how 98 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:10.399 nature works, you will get of all sorts of beneficial insects that will help 99 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:15.519 you to mitigate the pest on your produce, Like if you really focus on 100 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:18.120 improving the health of your soil, which is in my opinion, it's the 101 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:24.480 start of everything. But once you start applying all of these things, things 102 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.959 start to get in a start to work in a system to your advantage. 103 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:30.839 I also tell everybody that wants to start a vegetable garden or any type of 104 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.040 a garden, put up a lot of bird houses, like try to attract 105 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:38.879 as many birds as possible into your garden, because they'll be actually eating all 106 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:44.360 the insects, they will be mitigating the pests. So there's all sorts of 107 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.360 things that you can do to improve the biodiversity and improve the ecology of your 108 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:51.920 garden. And on the medium to long term, this will actually make you 109 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:57.879 a way more efficient, low maintenance gardener. So when you're saying the first 110 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:01.199 thing to think about is the soil, how does one approach that and how 111 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:05.360 does it vary based on climate for example? Yeah, that's a really good 112 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:09.759 question, and I'll start by answering the first part of your question, which 113 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:13.720 is really about the soil, because this is universal on the whole planet. 114 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:18.639 And this is, by the way, it's also covered in my upcoming award 115 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.360 winning book Twelve Universal Laws of Nature, how to get the most potential out 116 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:26.959 of your land, because what happens is or how it turns out, and 117 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.480 this is really mind blowing once I started to understand this is that the soil 118 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:37.559 actually is basically like our gut. Like if you have a healthy gut, 119 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:41.519 that's when you are a healthy person. And the soil is exactly the same. 120 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:45.639 Because what happens in a healthy gut, there's a lot of micro organisms 121 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.919 that are improving the health of your gut. It's exactly the same with the 122 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:56.039 soil. It's amazing, so even just for people to start understanding how because 123 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:01.320 it's a very complex system, the soil, like one of healthy soil, 124 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:05.320 can contain more microorganisms than there are people on the whole planet. So just 125 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:11.120 for you to understand how many microorganisms there are and how complex this system is. 126 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:16.120 In fact, up until today, we know more about what's happening in 127 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:18.720 out of space in the universe than what we know what's happening under our feet. 128 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:24.360 It's a highly complex system. But what we do know is that the 129 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:28.879 how plants and microorganisms and the soil interact is that when you have a healthy 130 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.600 soil, you have lots of microorganisms. And what the microorganisms do is they 131 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:39.960 take nutrients that are already in the soil, such as phosphorus, nitrogen, 132 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:46.080 other minerals as well, and they make them available for the plants. So 133 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:52.639 in that way, the microorganisms give the nutrients to the roots, and in 134 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:58.600 return, the roots give the microorganisms sugar because the plants are doing photosynthesis. 135 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.960 So there's this beautiful sembi between the soil, the micro organisms, and the 136 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:07.759 plants that are benefiting everybody. And it's even proven just for a health perspective, 137 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:09.639 that if you put your hands in the soil and you work in your 138 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:15.639 garden, that you will actually absorb these microorganisms, so you'll be healthier in 139 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:18.919 terms of your gut health, and also the brain health apparently has a lot 140 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:24.120 of microorganisms. So it's truly amazing how we as humans are actually connected to 141 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:28.120 the soil, or how we can be connected to live healthier. And then 142 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:33.279 just to take it a step further, once you've done ways to improve the 143 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:37.679 health of your soils, such as composting, lots of other ways, melching, 144 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.559 there's a variety of things you can or should do to improve the health 145 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:45.799 of your soil. But once you do that, you actually start to grow 146 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:50.120 plants that are far more healthier. And what happens is that plants that are 147 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:56.200 healthier they vibrate on a way higher frequency, and insects they are very good 148 00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:01.840 at sensing waves, even bees. I just saw a video from somebody explaining 149 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:07.840 that a flower will have a certain frequency that will attract bees, and once 150 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:13.159 the bee flies into the flower and takes the nectar, the frequency of the 151 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:16.639 flower changes, so the next bee that would come around knows, oh, 152 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:22.000 there's no nectar anymore. Just to understand how amazing this whole plant world is. 153 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.039 So but if your plants vibrate on a higher frequency because they have a 154 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:33.000 healthier soil and they're healthier, then the insects will not attack them because the 155 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.639 thing is how nature This is again how nature works, is that nature will 156 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:41.840 always be recycling energy. So plants that are not in a healthy state because 157 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:46.200 of various reasons, nature will be ah, we'll need to recycle that plant. 158 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:52.320 So the insects will eat it and they will digest it and basically produce 159 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:58.320 more healthy soil by killing the plants. So that's why this is instrumental to 160 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.919 having a healthy guard. And moreover, it's even proven that if you, 161 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:07.879 like I'm at a farmer who even said that if you're eating produce that is 162 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:13.039 not healthy or not vibrating at that higher frequency, it's also not healthy for 163 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:16.440 you. Like obviously, in our modern science, we already know that it's 164 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.879 good to eat greens, to eat lots of vegetables, But if these vegetables 165 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:26.559 were produced in an industrial system with lots of chemicals where they're actually growing unhealthy 166 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:31.039 plants, then you eating that is not actually going to improve your your health. 167 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.519 So it's just we can actually absorb that higher frequency plants. If plants 168 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:41.080 are healthy, they will help you to be more healthy. I met somebody 169 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:45.559 who's actually developing a system that on our smartphones. They will add a new 170 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:50.879 scan system that you can actually go to produce and scan the frequency of the 171 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.720 plant, so you will know how healthy it is. So imagine this new 172 00:12:54.759 --> 00:13:00.360 thing coming out. You'd go to the supermarket and you will be you know, 173 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:03.759 like, is there actually a healthy product or not? Because as it 174 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:07.759 turns out, like there's certain oranges that don't have any vitamin C because they're 175 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:13.200 just grown it's purely sugar because they're on unhealthy plant with a lot of pesticide, 176 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:18.159 a lot of chemicals, so they don't actually have that vitamins. So 177 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.039 they would know like if the orange is vibrating on a higher frequency, it'd 178 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.360 be way healthier. So that would actually transform the whole food industry. I 179 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:31.000 think when is that app coming out? I don't know. I've heard about 180 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.960 it a couple of years ago and I haven't seen any movement around it. 181 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.120 I need to do some more research on it. Wow, that would be 182 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:43.120 incredible. I'd use that, yeah, because yeah, why would you buy 183 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:46.279 an orange if it doesn't have vitamin C? Right? Yeah, for sure. 184 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:52.080 So getting back to soil, if you want to plant a vegetable garden 185 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:56.279 versus a flower garden, are you using different soil or is it more a 186 00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:00.159 climate thing. Like, if I go to a garden center and I'm buying 187 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.759 soil, give me some tips on what I should be looking for. Well, 188 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:09.159 yeah, first of all, the compost that you buy in the garden 189 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:15.440 centers is not actually quality composts, or some people will not even refer to 190 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:20.240 it as compost. It's just nitrogen carbon. It's more of a chemical thing 191 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.919 rather than actual good compost. And we actually work with local farmers that are 192 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:31.240 organic here that produce high quality compost. And even the way you can see 193 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.679 it is that a high quality compost will actually not be dark. People. 194 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:37.399 Most people think like, oh, if it's really dark, it's really good 195 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.960 compost, But it actually has more brown color and once you look at it, 196 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:48.120 you should be able to see lots of white threads in the compost. 197 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:54.120 That means that there's a lot of microbiological activity. So, first of all, 198 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:56.320 like what I would do or suggest to listeners is try and find any 199 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:03.039 organic, regenerative farmer in your area who's actually doing high quality composting, because 200 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:07.039 that's the kind of goal that you want to get into your garden. Because 201 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:11.000 mostly doesn't really matter what type of soil that you have. Once you can 202 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:16.279 improve it and make the soil healthy, you can basically grow anything. Obviously, 203 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.960 if if your soil is very wet or very acidic or in the high 204 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.080 extremes, it will be difficult. But in the in the in the normal 205 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:28.919 range of most of the soils in the world, the higher the health is, 206 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.320 the more variety of plants you can grow, because there's also a signs 207 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.200 like you need to be aware of if your soil is acidic or alkali and 208 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:41.679 all this. But this is actually starting to be debunked because that's purely looking 209 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:46.240 at it as soil as if it were a chemical component. But they don't 210 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:52.799 consider the microbiology. So when you have a high MicroB biological soil, you 211 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:58.840 can plant basically anything. Okay, part of my ignorance, just to make 212 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:03.559 sure that I'm clear. Yeah, you can use whatever soil, But the 213 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:07.000 key is the compost that you're going to add to the soil to make it 214 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:11.480 the best possible soil. Yes, yes, well, compost is one way 215 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.080 of improving the health of the soil, and you don't once you have that 216 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:18.759 high quality compost, you don't even need to put a lot of it inside 217 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.720 because what that compost is. It's more like an incubator. It will in 218 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:27.159 that high quality compost, it's full of micro organisms, so it will help 219 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:30.679 to restore the health of your soil. But then once you do that, 220 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:36.080 you also have to do other measures so that it actually works for your soils, 221 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:38.120 such as like if you start out on a new guarden, you have 222 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:44.200 to decompact the soil because in far too often situations, the soils have been 223 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.399 maintained in a certain way or there's been spraying of chemicals, so it's in 224 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:53.039 a bad state. And then what happens is if there's no microbiogical activity, 225 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:57.960 it kind of tends to collapse and it smashes down and it gets compacted. 226 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.039 You'd have to use a tool which is common or not common in Europe, 227 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:07.240 but we use it quite a lot. It's like a garden fork, and 228 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.000 you just stick it in the soil and you decompact it. And that's really 229 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.759 another important aspect. Once you start to work with your soil in a different 230 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.839 that's called it a more regenerative way, is that you should stop turning it 231 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:23.240 around each and every year. Like this is some common practice from plowing, 232 00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:27.480 and it's just because we've been doing it for thousands of years that we think 233 00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:30.799 that it's good, but it's actually the worst thing to do for your soils 234 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.400 because what happened, or how it turns out, is that each and every 235 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:41.640 millimeter or centimeter of soil has different types of microorganisms based on the amount of 236 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:47.000 oxygen there is in the soil and the composition of so there'll be a lot 237 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:51.799 of different microagrams in all of these segments. So what happens is when you 238 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:56.440 then turn around the soil completely destroying that balance. And this is also one 239 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.079 of the well it's also what I talk about. If you look into nature, 240 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:07.000 you will hardly ever see bare soil or soil that is completely turned around. 241 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:12.680 It's only maybe after a landslide that there's like a soiled disturbance of such 242 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:18.240 scale. So we have to look at that how nature was intended to work, 243 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:22.559 to apply that in your own garden. And then other measures that I'm 244 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:26.480 very hopeful about is melching. So once you've now improved the soil, you 245 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:32.920 put the compost, you maybe plant your seeds or your carrots. Now try 246 00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:36.720 and get the soil covered as much as possible, because like I said, 247 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:41.039 in nature, it will hardly happen that the soil is bare. So getting 248 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:45.200 the soil covered as much as possible is really important because it's the soil. 249 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:51.799 The top soil of our whole planet is basically like our skin, so our 250 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:56.680 skin is also a sensitive surface that is protecting us from infections and other things. 251 00:18:56.720 --> 00:19:00.720 Now, when you scratch open your skin, it's it's open for infections 252 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.880 and other bad things to happen, So it's kind of the same with the 253 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:10.039 soil. So obviously, when you're doing vegetables, that's annual plants, so 254 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:14.720 you will have to do some kind of disturbance throughout the season to get your 255 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.920 plants in the ground. But just minimizing that as much as possible and melching 256 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.319 is really one of the key ways to do that. For example, if 257 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.640 you get into like in let's say in the northern hemisphere where we have four 258 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:32.640 seasons, what you could do when it's getting into autumn, you're harvesting your 259 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:36.839 last crops, maybe you have some winter crops still in, but then you 260 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:40.880 just cover all of your beds, all of your garden with leaves or with 261 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:45.440 other melch so it's protected for the whole winter. And then when the winter 262 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.599 is over and you say like okay, and now I want to start seeding 263 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.480 some carrots or other things. You just push the melch away a little bit, 264 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.000 you seed everything. You wait till the carrots grow and they're at a 265 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:02.039 decent size, and then you fill it up with melch. In all of 266 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.000 the in between spaces where I live, we have four seasons, and in 267 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:08.240 the fall, after the leaves fall, we typically blow away the leaves so 268 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.839 it's clean before the winter. But based on what you just said, is 269 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.160 that the wrong thing to be doing. Is it better to leave the leaves 270 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:19.880 on top of the soil for the winter. Yes, definitely for a vegetable 271 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.279 garden. But obviously if you have like a garden where you also want to 272 00:20:23.319 --> 00:20:27.279 have some lawn some grass, then you have to blow away the leaves otherwise 273 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:33.240 the grass will not grow as good the next year. But anything that has 274 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.319 shrubs flowers, well, you have to be a little bit careful. With 275 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:42.319 perennial plants. They don't like too much of like the melch, because it 276 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:47.839 can become too humid. So but even if you just put a small layer 277 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:52.359 between your perennial flowers and then in your whole vegetable garden. Just keep all 278 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:57.079 of the leaves in place so the soil is covered throughout the winter. So 279 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.119 then you also have wayless wheats because the wheats when this is another thing that 280 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:07.119 I can shortly explain is that we're ultra as gardeners. We're all trying to 281 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:12.200 fight wheats. And this is actually what nature is trying to do to restore 282 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:17.039 itself. And this is what happens in nature after a landslide or after a 283 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:23.440 wildfire. The basically the biodiversity or the ecosystem is at level zero right there's 284 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:29.079 no activity, there's no plant growth. So what nature has developed to start 285 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:33.359 to restore the process to get back to a state of forest like the highest 286 00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:38.799 succession is a forest. But the first step is annuals and we call them 287 00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:44.839 wheats, but these are actually the plants that will come up first after a 288 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.519 soil is completely disturbed. And then even if you would have a gardener, 289 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:52.680 you let it overgrow by weats. If you wouldn't do anything, after a 290 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:56.319 couple of years, the weats would disappear. It would become more like grassland. 291 00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:02.839 After the grassland it will be you'll start to see shrubs. After the 292 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:07.759 shrubs are developed, you'll start to see the first pioneer tree like willows popular 293 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:12.319 and over a course of let's say it takes a long time, over one 294 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:17.359 hundred and fifty to two hundred years, you'll end up with the oak forest, 295 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:22.079 for example. So that's what happens. That's how nature is intended to 296 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:25.880 work, and it starts with the wheats. So we're trying to fight wheats, 297 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:32.000 but nature is just trying to restore itself. It's incredible. But then 298 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.559 again, you're not going to have people in their homes wanting a backyard full 299 00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:38.880 of weeds, no, and that's why you have to do melching to minimize 300 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:44.319 that and actually grow as much. Because what it turns out as well is 301 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:49.759 that vegetables are mostly also annuals, and they are all derived from what we 302 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:56.599 call wheats or their family of the annual plants that we call wheats, so 303 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:02.160 they vegetables do very well in disturbed soil. It's just about this the in 304 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:07.279 between spaces between your crops and between your harvests, to keep the soil covered 305 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:11.079 as much as possible. And then one other really important and amazing measure to 306 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:17.279 do is to introduce cover crops. So once you've for example, harvested a 307 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:21.519 crop at any time in the in the year, rather than just leaving the 308 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:23.680 soil bear and think like, Okay, I'll just wait till next year or 309 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.799 leave it for a couple of months. You see it in a mix of 310 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:33.880 cover crops, and cover crops are also annuals. Sometimes there's some vegetables included, 311 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:38.279 but they are specifically picked seeds that will improve the health of your soil 312 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:44.279 and they are not as aggressive as wheats, so you're active. Basically, 313 00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:48.839 you're actively growing weeds, but weeaeds that are not so potent as some of 314 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:53.559 the wheats that we that we know, so that's important to incorporate as well. 315 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:59.359 Would that work in a cold climate? Yeah, are you suggesting that 316 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.720 in the far all we plant cover crops? Yes, you could do that, 317 00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.240 and even if you like, when you have a more diverse vegetable garden, 318 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:12.960 you'll have some produce that is already ready to be harvested in late spring 319 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.160 or early summer, and then you could seed a cover crop just to have 320 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.960 the soil to restore itself throughout the whole summer, and then next year in 321 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:26.799 that in that bat you can do another crop. So you kind of mix 322 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:30.519 it in the different crops. And then if you then combine that with melching 323 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.480 just before the winter, even before the snow comes, you put a good 324 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:40.359 layer of melch, then the soil is nicely protected. Once the snows start 325 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:44.920 to melt and you you you don't have any frost at night, you can 326 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.559 move away the leaves, seed or plant whatever you want a harvest and fill 327 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.519 fill in the caps again with the leaves, and the leaves will actually decompose 328 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.920 over time. And it's it's basically the same as compost. So we don't 329 00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:00.039 really need to be cleaning leaves. No, not at all. There's no 330 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:04.200 need for that. Okay, this is all knowledge that everybody can learn. 331 00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:11.000 Obviously in a twenty minute podcast interview, it's difficult to put everything out. 332 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.920 But I've actually developed a masterclass where people can learn it in nine weeks. 333 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:18.359 How to learn all this knowledge and how to apply it in their own garden. 334 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:21.839 What do you talk about in this master class? So, yeah, 335 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.359 it's a nine week program and we basically start really with a deeper understanding of 336 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.799 how nature works. Like what I said, like, once you start to 337 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.960 understand how nature works, you look at your garden in a whole different way. 338 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:38.160 So once you start to understand that, we will we spend quite a 339 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:41.200 bit of time on vision building, like what do you want to do with 340 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.160 your garden? Do you want flowers? Like what is your dream garden? 341 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:49.119 By the way, the program the master class is called the Garden of your 342 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:53.319 Dreams Masterclass, so we really dive deep, like, Okay, what is 343 00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:57.480 the Garden of your dreams mean? Because it's different for everybody. So once 344 00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:02.519 you've built that vision, you'll actually into the conceptualization of your new garden, 345 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:07.039 so you actually learn how to sketch it and design and fill in everything, 346 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.799 because in my opinion, that's instrumental for a successful garden is that it has 347 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:18.119 to be planned. If you don't plan it, you'll trial and error and 348 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.039 you start over and you just, yeah, you break her back literally because 349 00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:25.400 you don't have a plan. So once you've then have your plan, we 350 00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:29.200 go into plant planning. You learn all about the plans that will work for 351 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:33.200 your specific case. And I've actually incorporated the AI system into that so that 352 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:38.880 it becomes very simple and very easy to know what will definitely work for your 353 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:44.799 specific garden. And actually, just before that, we also spend some time 354 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:48.920 on analyzing, analyzing your soil, analyzing your climate, getting as much data 355 00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:55.000 for your specific garden so that once you don't select the plants, you know 356 00:26:55.359 --> 00:27:00.200 that it's going to work for that specific case. So once you've done that, 357 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.359 will go deeper into how to plant, how to prepare the soil, 358 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:10.000 soil healths, other measures that I shortly touched upon today, so that you'll 359 00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:15.079 actually become a confident gardener in nine weeks. Well, if anyone listening tries 360 00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.640 this masterclass, please let me know if it helps you transform your garden. 361 00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:23.359 One last thing before we go. You talked about radishes in the beginning and 362 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:29.119 how that's possibly one of the easiest vegetables to plant. Can you suggest others 363 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:34.839 that are easy to grow? In terms of easiness to grow? Twukinis twukinis 364 00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:38.799 so it's a family of the squash. It's very easy to grow, you 365 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:44.000 just because it also takes up quite a lot of space, so you only 366 00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:48.519 need like, let's say, for roughly five square meters, you only need 367 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:53.160 five plants. So it's also very cheap to acquire, and they make huge 368 00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:56.319 leaves, so they cover vast areas of the soil. And if you then 369 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:00.279 buy the plant at a small size, you melch every then you won't have 370 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:04.000 any maintenance for a couple of weeks or months even, And then once the 371 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:10.400 zucchini starts to produce produce. If you just keep harvesting it, it keeps 372 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.240 producing until the frost starts, so you'll have like at some moment in the 373 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.480 middle of the summer, you'll be sick of eating zucchinis. So that's another 374 00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:26.960 vegetable. What about a flower good question. There's so many, honestly, 375 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:33.200 but a daily is really a good one. Dailylies are easy to grow. 376 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:38.759 They also like clay soils because clay soils sometimes are more difficult to choose. 377 00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:45.400 Plants and dailylies love that soil. They also make like if you plant a 378 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:49.559 row of daily lies, they will actually form clumps and they will become one 379 00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:53.839 area, and no wheats will actually be able to grow through them. You 380 00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:59.640 have lots of flowers, and the flowers are addible. That's something amazing as 381 00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.039 well that not too many people know about. You can just eat them. 382 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:06.759 It's delicious. You even taste the nectar of the flower. It's it's nice 383 00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:11.000 and sweet. Gojiberry gojieberry is an amazing one, like everybody knows gojiberry you 384 00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:15.720 or not, maybe not everybody knows it. But it's a very healthy berry 385 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:22.680 because it's full of anti oxidants and it grows fairly easy in all soil conditions. 386 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:27.960 Obviously it shouldn't be too cold, but once you have that one in 387 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:33.880 your garden, it's really so delicious to eat from. Yeah. And actually, 388 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.000 if people are interested to know more about like easy to grow plans, 389 00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:41.440 on my website Garden of your Dreams dot com, you can actually see I 390 00:29:41.480 --> 00:29:47.880 made a couple of videos that are available for free to to learn actually exactly 391 00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:52.039 what you asked and also some tools that I talked about. So there's there's 392 00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.359 some material there, all right. I'll put that in the show notes. 393 00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:57.759 And if someone who wants to be in touch with you, should they go 394 00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:03.279 through your website that you just mentioned. Yeah, exactly. So what I 395 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.400 actually want to offer your audience, because I really love your podcast and what 396 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.440 you're doing, is that I want to open my calendarly links to my calendar, 397 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.839 and I'll share that with you so people can actually book a thirty minute 398 00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:19.000 free coaching with me. So we'll actually take thirty minutes to see like what 399 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:22.799 is the condition of their garden, where they want to go and what's needed 400 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:29.480 to actually become a successful gardener or have the garden of their dreams. So 401 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.279 that's one way. If they want to do direct action, that's wonderful and 402 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.920 it could be someone anywhere in the world. Yes, that's the beauty of 403 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.960 my program. Because I've incorporated AI, it now applies to anywhere in the 404 00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.880 world and the program that I have built around it. Like, if I 405 00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:52.160 would have wanted to do that, let's say, three years ago, before 406 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.960 AI became more common, it would have probably cost me in time and in 407 00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:03.160 money ten times as much because I have to like investigate it for every specific 408 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:08.279 case. But with AI at the investment is substantially less because of that system. 409 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:12.599 Well it sounds great. I think I might avail myself. Yeah, 410 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:15.640 awesome. It was great to have you on the show. I know there's 411 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.200 so much to talk about. People probably have so many more questions, so 412 00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.759 I encourage them to get in touch with you. Yes, definitely. They 413 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:29.759 can also watch me on Instagram on my personal profile or my company profile. 414 00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:33.880 Well, my personal profile is more about tips and tricks for the garden, 415 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:38.359 and then the company is really we do one on one work where we completely 416 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:42.640 design the garden for people, so you can watch all of that. I'm 417 00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:48.039 also now active on TikTok. I wanted to make shorter, even punch your 418 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:53.960 content of how gardeners can become more successful, so they can check that out 419 00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:59.359 as well. And Yeah, always happy to receive a message or to reach 420 00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:02.799 out if anybody has any question. It was a pleasure to meet you today. 421 00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:06.920 Thank you for sharing your expert advice. And if you hear about that 422 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:10.240 app coming out that measures those plant vibrations, please let me know because I'm 423 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:14.880 super interested. Yes, exactly, I'll do some more research and I'll send 424 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:19.200 it to you. Esther. Okay, thank you very much. Awesome, 425 00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:22.039 Well, thank you very much Esther for having me on your show. You're 426 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:29.880 a great host and I love the questions that you asked. I hope you 427 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:32.240 found this helpful. Please share, rate, leave a review, and follow 428 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:37.720 a plant based diet on your favorite podcast listening platform. 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