WEBVTT

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Hello, and welcome to Open Mind
UFO Radio. I am your host,

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Alejandro Rojas, and I am with
Martin. What you're talking about willis?

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I have had people say that a
lot of a lot they do. I

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haven't used it, and remarkably it
was suggested by a listener that I use

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it. I've had someone leave a
you know, derogative comments on YouTube's after

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I do shows, like what are
you talking about? What you're talking about

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willis? And then you know,
going to the reason they're saying that that's

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so funny, that's really funny.
So and and I was thinking, you

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know, maybe people don't even know
what that is, because if you're a

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lot younger, you might not.
That's right, So you better tell them

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what it is. This whole conversation
means nothing. Yeah, So what you're

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talking about, willis was a catchphrase
from a little person. I think that's

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the word you use for them,
kind of like Peter Dinklin from Game of

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Throne. So it was Emmanuel Lewis. I think it's no Gary Coleman,

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Gary Coleman, Gary Coleman, that's
right. Wow, I met him,

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actually I hung out with him for
a day. So anyway, Yeah,

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it was this what was it?
Different? Strokes was a show? Huh?

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I think you got it? Mm
hmm. So he would always say

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to his brother, and essentially it
was these two black kids that from the

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city were adopted by this rich white
guy who had one daughter, a teenage

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daughter, and so that was a
story on how they get along and everything.

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And so the youngest, who was
actually an older man but just looked

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like a little kid because he had
that you know thing where he was little,

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and so he would tell his brother, what you're talking about, willis?

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That's right? Yeah he was.
That's funny. Yeah. I started

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hearing it, you know during the
show times, you know, like where

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is that coming from? And then
I had to watch it to see what

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everybody was talking about. Going back
to the day, people were saying that

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to me all the time. Yeah, back in the day when when sayings

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like where's the beef was big?
And that's right. I can't remember the

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other was JJ Walker used to say, yeah, oh my yeah, he

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was funny. That was cool.
Yeah, So here we are in the

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present once again. Yeah, so
let me talk about my guest. My

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guest is Lee Spiegel, and of
course we've had him quite a bit,

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but I love him because he's my
buddy, and I'm lucky enough that you

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know, I don't think he does
a whole lot of shows, so and

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he's got a lot to share,
and in particular, so later this week,

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in fact, in a couple of
days, I'm going to be flying

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out to Wyoming to Devil's Tower where
the whole the little that mountain kind of

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thing made famous by the movie Close
Encounters. And it's just an event to

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celebrate the fortieth anniversary of Close Encounters
the movie, which was also released in

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theaters and four K also, as
you know, for the anniversary of the

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movie. And Steven Spielberg had this
little part at the beginning. But anyway,

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this event, he's gonna be a
lot of fun. So I'll be

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there, I know. I think
Jan Harzan, a guy from who's the

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director of mufan, will be there. Travis Walton will be there. Yeah,

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my buddy, Mark D'Antonio, Debbie
Zgomeyer and her brother Chuck Sukowski.

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They have a book called forty Second
Parallel something like that. They didn't write

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it, but it was written about
them and maybe worked into a movie.

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So yeah, so it's gonna be
a lot of fun. I'm gonna be

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doing two talks, one of them
about strange alien cases. That talk,

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by the way, I'm gonna modify
it. I always change my talks before

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I do them every time. So
but you can see that talk on our

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video on demand for the UFO Congress. So go check that out. And

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the reason I say that is because
there's a part on Spielberg on that because

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I'm going to do another talk on
Spielberg the Ufologist, and I'm actually gonna

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take that part out and I'm gonna
put all together all my Spielberg stuff because

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I have a lot over the years, I have some stuff, you know.

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I was I think the first one
to get the full resolution pictures from

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the Reagan Library of Steven Spielberg when
he went to go see Et. They

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had a special showing of ET at
the White House and there was this some

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of these pictures out A couple of
them before, but they were really low

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resolution. I don't even know where
they came from. But I was able

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to work with the Reagan Library to
get full resolution pictures and I thought that

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was online. Yeah. So and
I've shared him with everybody. I gave

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him to Grant, because Grant was
big on that story. That's how I

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learned about it originally, Grant Cameron. He does the presidential UFO's research.

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So Lee is important. And Lee
is related to this because he was hanging

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out with Heinich and with Jay Allen
Heinik and Jack Vallet during the time the

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movie was being made. And he
has spoke and recently with Jacques Valet about

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the movie, and he spoke up
to Heineck of course back then about the

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movie when it came out. So
he's got an interesting perspective on all of

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this. And so that's what we're
going to be talking about because he has

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these direct relationships. Jay Allen Heinich
was a advisor to the movie. He

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was also more than the reason why
he was an advisor to the Air Force

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regarding UFOs. He is a well
known astronomer. Back then, Jacques Vallet

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was his assistant who also went on
to be a well known scientist and entrepreneur

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and venture capitalist and computer scientist,
and he is the kind of the model.

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He was the influence for the main
character of the French guy on Coose

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Encounters, portrayed by famous director Trefu, which is his name. Do you

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remember? No, Lee and I
talk about it, but I just wanted

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to say it again here because it's
a lot of fun to say the word.

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Well that's important m hm. So
while you're looking that up, I'll

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just say, how do you know
I'm looking it up? I can just

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tell Francois trustful, Francis Franois,
Wow, trithle truthful. Yeah. That

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is fun to say, isn't it. All the listeners do it with me.

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Francois through a full This is like
French class Francois. Yeah, truffle.

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Will americanize it now? If you
amercoganize it, the spelling is truffle

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it, oh, truffle, of
course. Francis Trufft France is my good

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buddy, Frank Truffitt. Yeah.
Well that's I'm glad you have Leon.

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He is so much fun. I
always enjoy talking to him and I always

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love listening to him. He's got
that great radio voice too, he does.

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Yeah, So we can catch up
on what he's up to, because

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he's doing some cool stuff right now. He's working with James Fox. But

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we'll talk more about that the interview. But before that, let's talk about

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and I should mention, I guess
to people because what I'm talking about here

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is the UFO Rendezvous. If you're
not aware, it is and Hewlett,

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Wyoming, and I'll be and it's
September fourteenth to the sixteenth, So you

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can still just show up there at
the base of Devil's Tower there and we'll

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have a crazy experience. All that'll
be going through my head, I'm sure

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is the Close Encounters music Do Do
Do Do Do Do Do Doo. We

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took my This is an interesting close
Encounter story. I think a bit sad,

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but you know, I think this
happens to the old people like myself.

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But I took my girlfriend's nod her
who's practically my stepdaughter. I mean,

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we're and we're really close, we're
good buddies. But I took her

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to Close Encounters. We all went
together, and I was so excited for

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her to see the movie because it's
one of my favorite movies, probably the

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movie I've seen the most. And
she didn't like it. Oh, it

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really hurt our relationship because now I
don't like it and I'm never going to

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talk to her now. Yeah,
she's to me. No. I understand

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her perspective though, because it is
weird. Seventies movies were weird, I

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know about though. They just don't
work today like they did, you know,

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except for some classics. But I
really I watch a movie that I

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loved years ago, and I'll watch
it and go, huh, why did

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I like that so much? Yeah? I think it's just the way we

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have just gone through, you know, all the different changes and technolog and

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all that, and it just and
then our levels of have gone up so

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high our expectations of what we're expecting
to see. I can definitely see that.

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Yeah, I could too. I
mean, the special effects were good

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for the time, right, but
if you see him now, you know,

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it's like, oh, what's up
with that? So yeah, I

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could see it. And I was
a bit sad, but I could totally

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see it. So now didn't Doug
what's his name, Doug Trumbull who works

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market special effects. Right, Mark
works with him like on a regular basis,

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and Doug Trump is one of my
favorite interviews. There's that scene,

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Yes, he's amazing. There's that
scene when the woman with her child is

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in the road and the UFO comes
flying up the road. That is really

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well done. It is, And
you know what one of the points I

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like to make some so here are
some insights into I talk. But one

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of the points I like to make
I show the scene where this woman who

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is her son, got abducted and
essentially the UFO comes down and the government

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meets them, and the people come
out of the craft, including the sun,

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and she's taking pictures of the aliens
in the spacecraft. And it's funny

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to me because it really hit me
once then when I was watching it and

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when I was really into this stuff, that if she sent me those pictures

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what you believe happened, one,
would I believe it? And even if

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I did, would I even be
able to prove anything? That's sad.

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It's it's a double edged short,
isn't it right, Because I've heard,

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you know, I've heard the statement
said that you know, if the pictures

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are too good, then it's cgi
or you know, no one's gonna believe

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it, yeah, you know,
And then they also say, well,

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why is it blurry? You know
all that, So it just goes to

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show that pictures alone are not enough. You need a lot of support,

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being evidence to go with her,
because even in this situation where you know,

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she really in the movie of course, you know, saw these aliens

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and had this experience, no one
would probably believe her. That's right,

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that's right, it would be Yeah. I mean I remember talking to Bruce

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mcabee a couple of years ago and
he said something along the lines with the

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photos like minor, it's the witness. You know, that's where you get

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your information. Yeah, that's a
good point. Yeah, yeah, because

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you know, he used to be
the Mark d' antonio. He used to

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be the head photo guy for Moufan
and I used to, when I was

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an investigator, send my stuff to
him, and I would be frustrated because

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he'd be like, no, it
could be this, and it could be

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that, and he's right, you
know. That's where I learned from his

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perspective. I like, if I
use the photo as a piece of data,

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I need to with this photo prove
without a doubt that it is something

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abnormal. And with most pictures,
even if it is something abnormal but it's

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a light in the sky, you
can't do that alone with the photo,

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and even if you couple it with
witness testimony, then it's interesting. But

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anecdotal information by itself doesn't add up
to much either. So even with if

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photo case, you don't have much
unless you have some periphial stuff. But

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it's like police being involved or radar
or on a military base or something like

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that. That's right, And I
don't know, you know, I mean

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if what you'd need to actually say
this is definitely you know, where is

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that line crossed when all of a
sudden you can say yes, everyone,

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we can all agree, this is
definitely something that doesn't belong here on earth.

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You know. I wonder what you
have to have to actually have science

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get behind it and say, wow, this is really from somewhere else.

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Yeah. Yeah, how far do
you have to go or touch or actually

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a sample like taking off of it
while Atlanta, like take a hubcap off

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or something. Yeah, we don't
even know yet. Yeah we don't know.

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Wow. Yeah, So the news, why don't we move into the

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news. That's what you're here for, your news guy. So what do

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you got for us? Well,
all the news you can use when it

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comes to UFOs. Oh nice,
I like it. That was an Alejandro

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Rojas imitation with me a little bit. Yeah, when I do my news

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guy voice. Yeah cool, I
tried, But anyway, so I'll go

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with this, say a UFO witness
spots a large spherical object. Quote unquote

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Baron he in Portugal. Thank you
for the sound effect. So this hiker

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in Portugal was taking some photos of
an odd object recently. And this happened

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back in August twentieth of this year. So it was on a hike and

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these pictures are interesting. Here we
go, we were just talking about pictures.

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There is when you zoom in,
it does look a little bit blurry.

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But he also says that I think
he says it takes off. The

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object actually took off, you know, because when you first look at it,

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to me, it looked like possibly
like the mylar balloon thing that we

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often gets mistaken for UFO. But
what did you think about this? It

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was kind of irregular shaped. It
looks like it has some fins going on

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and stuff. Yeah, he called
it an irregular shape. And he said

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it was essentially, you know,
kind of making a steady path. And

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he at first thought it was a
helicopter because he said it looked like a

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helicopter to him, or the size
of a helicopter, which would be pretty

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large. And if you look at
the picture, you know, it kind

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of substantiates that perspective, it looks
pretty big in the photo, so I

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thought that was kind of weird.
So, yeah, looking at the photo,

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because he took some great pictures with
it, must have been a good

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camera, and it looks pretty large, so you zoom in, and I

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assumed it would just be a milar
balloon, but it wasn't. Obviously,

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it is an irregular shape. And
he took two photos and it looks the

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same in both photos, and it
almost looks like a U shape with a

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shiny center, but kind of irregular
U shape with a shiny center. So

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I couldn't figure out what it was. In the story, I suggest that

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perhaps my only guess would be possibly
a partially deflated my alarm balloon. That's

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all kind of scrumpled up and crunched
up, and maybe part of it is

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reflecting the sun that's floating through the
sky, and a lot of people,

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a lot of the skeptics out there
have jumped on that and said, yep,

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that's what it is. But I
wouldn't something like that float though if

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it was deflated, you know how. I mean, it would have to

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be deflated quite a bit to be
in that kind of weird shape. That's

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a really good point, because that's
that's what I wonder, because that's exactly

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what I wonder is to look like
it does, it would have to be

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very deflated, and in that case
would it flow. I think one of

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the reasons they use my alar for
balloons is that it's very light, and

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I think alone it can float in
the wind. But this seems to be

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aloft somewhat, so maybe it it's
really hard to say, so maybe it

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was way way up there and then
it deflated and it's coming down or something.

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I don't know, so it could
possibly be mostly deflated balloon, but

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it is kind of an odd one. I think this one's harder to peg

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than they normally are, right,
I agree with you, Hm. Interesting?

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Interesting. So the other story did
you see that? Other one?

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I wrote on Friday? This was
Chris Rukowski. Have you had him on

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your show? I have, yes, Yeah, he's great so Canadian UFL

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researcher. He's also a science writer, that's what he is by profession.

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But he's an author. He's written
several books, including one recently called When

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They Appeared The Falcon Lake nineteen sixty
seven UFO story. And some of you

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who are into UFO history. Know
this story where there's this guy in Canada

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who saw this UFO and he got
close to it. Well, it started

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to take off or something, and
they had these events on the side,

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and these events burnt his chest.
So Chris, who is very skeptical by

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nature, wrote this book with this
man's son. So this guy's name was

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Stepan Michalik, and the guy's son
is named Stan and Stan co wrote this

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book with Chris. So they covered
this this case in depth. The reason

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00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:11.799
that's important is that Chris teaches English. He does these continuing education courses and

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they asked him, hey, you
know, what are their ideas do you

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think would be interesting for a course? And he said, well, I

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wrote this book and about this local
kind of a UFO thing, and they

238
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said that'd be cool do a UFO
course. So he's doing this UFO course

239
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continuing education course through the Saint James
School Division, essentially Saint James asiny Boia.

240
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I'm not sure the second world,
but so it's really cool. So

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he gave me some quotes just talking
about what they're going to be, what

242
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his perspective is on all of this. And and even though he's he's a

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skeptic for the most part. He
you know, kind of like I.

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He really feels there's a genuine mystery
to the whole UFO phenomena. And I

245
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:03.519
like you and I and and so
he's doing this class. So that's kind

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00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:08.200
of cool. That is, you
know, going back to this this Canadian

247
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incident. Did they did they consider
that? I can't remember what did they

248
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consider that? Like radiation burns or
was it heat burns? It was heat,

249
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wasn't I don't know. It turned
into rashes and I think it was

250
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heat, but I don't remember that
particular detail. Yeah, it's very geometric.

251
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There was like a you know,
a grid of dots. At first

252
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started out like yeah when he went
into the hospital. Yeah, we've got

253
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a picture of this grid of dots
on his chest that you can see.

254
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Yeah, but you know what,
you can find out more in the brand

255
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:48.680
new look. When they appeared by
Chris Christousi Rostowski ru. I always have

256
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:51.960
a hard time with his last name, Yeah, because it's got that you

257
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would think it would be Rakowski.
But it's got this tea kind of this.

258
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They put a tea in the middle
of it. Yeah, nomadic wondering

259
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.200
tea. That somehow inserted itself into
part of his name. So it's like

260
00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:11.119
Rootkowski right, yeah, yep,
So this is another good one. Can

261
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I talk about another one? Oh
yeah, I can't remember if we talked

262
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about this on your show or my
show, but essentially it was there's this

263
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newdest beach like in in Wales or
something like that where people have been seeing

264
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:30.039
UFOs and so that of course made
some story in the story, some headlines

265
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:37.359
in the UK tabloids. But and
the place is called something Marion Marionid.

266
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It's got kind of a Welsh name
and if you know much about Welsh,

267
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they have these long, strange kind
of groupings of letters and characters that are

268
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hard to pronounce. In fact,
I've got I think they've got one of

269
00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:56.480
the longest city names of any city
names or something like that. But move

270
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:04.160
On has decided UFO need a speech
were there, and so they actually have

271
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this sign and it's posted in this
new article at the Cambrian News. They

272
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.799
have this sign posted outside of the
beach that has a big move On symbol

273
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and it says essentially, hey,
if you see UFO, be sure to

274
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let us know. Because of these
stories of these these UFOs being seen at

275
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the beach, So it's kind of
funny. Is it really an investigation or

276
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:32.400
do you think it was maybe someone
just wanted an excuse to go to visit

277
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the beach and put up these flyers
that maybe that's the mystery. That's a

278
00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:42.519
true mystery behind this story. So
that's kind of fun. That's kind of

279
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:48.400
a funny one. Yeah, So
is there any do we have anything else?

280
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There's I noticed you have your daily
headlines as always. Yeah, a

281
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:56.839
few headlines. There were some green
flashes that were seen during the Mexico earthquake

282
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that people both that were mysterious and
Forbes roa destory on what that was.

283
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.119
Otherwise, Yeah, some other UFO
stories, some UFO pictures. So people

284
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can go to the daily UFO headline
to just go to Open Minds at TV

285
00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:18.160
and C in the front page,
they'll see the different UFO headlines there.

286
00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:22.400
So okay, I also have a
kind of a funny story to tell you,

287
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:30.200
you know, Okay, the recent
CME, the coronal mass objection that

288
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.119
we had, Oh yes, yeah, yeah. In the Russian news,

289
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:40.240
they were saying that UFOs were coming
down to Earth and zapping up and storing

290
00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:45.160
the energy out of it that was
on the news on Russian news. Yes,

291
00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:52.359
huh, isn't that bizarre? That
is very very very bizarre. That's

292
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:56.640
interesting. Yeah, this show be
listened to by the NSA. Now with

293
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:02.039
those key words we've been talking about. Thanks Martin, I know, sorry,

294
00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:07.920
that is it for the day,
So thank you very much for joining

295
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.759
us. Martin a pleasure. People
can hear more, not just hear him

296
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:17.279
weekly on our show, but they
can also hear you on podcast UFO your

297
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:18.880
show and in fact, because I'm
gonna be doing this wyoming day, I'm

298
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gonna sure I'm gonna have a show
next week, so they'll be able to

299
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.680
listen to both of us on yours. But other than that, thank you.

300
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And right after this break, we'll
talk to Lispiegel. I am very

301
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:27.160
happy to welcome back to the show, mister doctor Lee Spiegel. When did

302
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I get my degree? My number
one customer pizza delivery customer, Well,

303
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:38.400
thank you. It's always a pleasure
to be here with you. Those are

304
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:41.680
our inside jokes because for some reason, whenever Lee calls me, he tries

305
00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:48.319
to order pizza and then we call
each other doctor. Now, I remember

306
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:51.519
the reason I did because there was
a UK paper I think it was a

307
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:56.279
tabloid that called me doctor Alejandro Rojas
when it quoted me. But didn't you

308
00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.079
have something similar like that happen.
That's what we call you doctor as well.

309
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:04.079
Well. I don't know if it
was because of me, but but

310
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:14.319
I frequently like to call and say
hello to our mutual friend nuclear physicist Stan

311
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:18.200
Friedman. And every time I call, like I did a couple of nights

312
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:22.200
ago, and every time he answers
the phone, and the way he answers

313
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.759
the phone is he doesn't just pick
it up and say this is Stan Friedman.

314
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.720
No, he just picks up the
phone and goes hello. And so

315
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:34.440
I always say I'm sorry, is
this doctor Friedman? And then he goes,

316
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:41.000
no, I'm not a doctor.
We always do that, Yeah,

317
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.599
because he gets mistaken to be a
doctor because he is a scientister, has

318
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:48.279
been often, but he's very quick
to point out he has a master's degree,

319
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:55.440
but he's not not a PhD.
Yeah, I don't remember. I

320
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.960
think I think you were the person
who first started calling me a doctor,

321
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.960
and I always liked it. It
just fits right. It sounds great,

322
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:10.960
doctor Lee Spiegel, doctor Spiegel.
So we are actually here to talk UFOs

323
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:15.519
and in particular we're going to talk
about Close Encounters and Spielberg and some of

324
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:22.839
that because of this great event that
I and unfortunately you won't be there,

325
00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:27.440
but it's this weekend. It's September
fourteenth, fifteenth, and sixteenth in Hewlett,

326
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:33.559
Wyoming, which is right under the
shadow of Devil's Tower, which of

327
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.599
course was made famous. Well it
was already pretty famous as a national park,

328
00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:42.079
I guess, but I made even
more famous by the Close Encounters movie.

329
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:48.400
Have you ever been there? No, I never have. I love

330
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:55.000
the look of it. I think
it was genius on whoever the set designer

331
00:27:55.319 --> 00:28:00.079
was who came up with that location
to play out the final the final scenes

332
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:07.200
of the movie Close Encounters. It's
just a perfect thing and it certainly lends

333
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:14.119
itself to oh, I don't know, mashed potatoes, as the character in

334
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:19.079
the movie, Roy Neary created at
the supper table a mashed potato version of

335
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:25.440
Devil's Tower. Now in the movie, you know, yeah, the main

336
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:32.200
character gets obsessed with the heel and
after he has this UFO encounter. But

337
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:36.119
one of the things that you know, it's probably the movie I've watched the

338
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:40.519
most, and I did watch it
re released in four K on the big

339
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:45.359
screen recently, and that was super
awesome. But I almost feel like the

340
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:52.279
main character. I feel compelled and
for some reason I cannot get away from

341
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:57.359
the UFO topic is as hard as
I may try at times, as frustrating

342
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:02.319
as it may be. I mean, and I think you feel the same.

343
00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:07.079
Is that true? You know?
I don't think I've ever said this

344
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:14.200
before publicly, but I will say
this now. As much as I loved

345
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:18.160
the movie, loved it when I
saw it the first time and then several

346
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:23.039
times after, there's a part of
the movie that has always bothered me,

347
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:33.359
really deeply bothered me, and I
still can't get around this. I guess

348
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.039
it worked for the movie for the
main character, played by Richard Dreyfus,

349
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:45.440
but she's in this movie. The
main character basically walks out on his wife

350
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:52.400
and kids, and that always bothered
me big time. And I've never been

351
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:56.759
married, I don't have a wife, I don't have kids. But still

352
00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:03.759
there was something I don't oh,
something about that part of the movie that

353
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:08.200
seemed almost taboo to me, unless, of course, and you may know

354
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:17.240
this better than me, have there
been instances where people have become so obsessed

355
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:25.039
with UFOs and the possibility that were
not alone, that they would take drastic

356
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:29.920
steps like this and just walk away
from their families. What do you think.

357
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:33.880
I don't know about that, but
it is very like if that's happened,

358
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.880
or if there's people who would do
it. But there is a parallel

359
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:42.000
that I'll draw in a second.
But first I want to talk about Spilberg

360
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:48.039
because it's very funny you say this, because Spilberg feels the same way.

361
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:55.720
He said that. He was even
threatening and the public said, don't do

362
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:59.359
it, to change the movie,
to re release it like he did with

363
00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:03.079
Et, and to change the end
to where he doesn't go on the ship.

364
00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:07.960
And he said, because when I
wrote that and made the film,

365
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.920
I was single, and now that
I'm a father and I'm married, there's

366
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:17.079
no way I would ever walk out
on my wife and kids. So I

367
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:19.079
didn't want the character to do that. So he was saying he was going

368
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:22.599
to change the movie and change the
end. The public said, heck,

369
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:25.920
no, you better not change it. We like it the way it is,

370
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:29.400
so we ended up not changing it. But he did have that same

371
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:33.440
feeling. But I was going to
say, the parallel is, although kind

372
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.680
of getting back to how I feel
compelled to be involved in this field,

373
00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:45.960
and I know you do as well. There are certainly people like ourselves who

374
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:55.400
are so obsessed with our interests that
we do jeopardize our relationships by getting involved

375
00:31:55.480 --> 00:32:00.519
with this stuff. I know that
our mutual friend Ben Hansen, I know

376
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:05.960
he gets in trouble for the long
conversations that you and he have about UFOs,

377
00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:10.200
and I get in trouble as well. So I mean that seems to

378
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:17.200
be a thing. Uh. You
know, I've discovered as the years have

379
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:27.000
passed that I'm a little more I'm
a little more guarded about giving out my

380
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:32.920
own personal opinion on things like UFOs, anything dealing with the paranormal subjects that

381
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:38.319
you and I have both have both
dealt with over the years. You have

382
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:45.039
to be kind of careful because you
don't want to You don't want to put

383
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.079
people off if if they if they
tend not to believe in something, and

384
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:55.200
that it could possibly disrupt their belief
system on some level. Uh. And

385
00:32:55.319 --> 00:33:00.519
yet you want to give them information
as well to help them come to a

386
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:07.119
place where they can make up their
own minds. My my attitude has always

387
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:10.680
been with all the things that I've
done and the stories that I've written,

388
00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:20.359
I've always just tried to present stories
and cases and people's experiences and basically say

389
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.079
to the audience, look, here's
a lot of facts. There's a lot

390
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:28.680
of information. I'm not telling you
that I necessarily believe this, but I

391
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:32.240
want to give you enough stuff that
you can go out on your own and

392
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:37.680
search for any kind of answer that
will work for you, that will help

393
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:43.519
you in your life. And that
just seems to be the better way for

394
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:45.559
me to do it, because I
have many people say to me, well,

395
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:47.880
what do you think of this?
And you know, are we being

396
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:52.039
are we being visited? And why
why don't they land on the White House

397
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:57.359
lawn? And no, they can't
possibly be here because because they can't get

398
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:01.440
here from another planet or another solar
system. I hate these kinds of questions.

399
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:08.199
Well, I mean I really do. But what really motivates you and

400
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:13.800
this to keep even with you know, like you said, those people,

401
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:17.559
the way they act and the way
they react to comments, to motivate you

402
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:23.039
to keep you know, working in
you know, on UFOs, it's not

403
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:27.559
like it, you know, it's
something that makes a lot of money or

404
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:32.280
it gets a lot of fame or
is necessarily helpful to your career. So

405
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:39.239
what is it that motivates you from
from the very beginning, which for me

406
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:47.079
in my adult life, this all
started in nineteen seventy three for me when

407
00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:52.159
when I was born. That's a
year. Oh boy, we're really dating

408
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:58.480
ourselves out. Well, well,
then the year you were born, Alejandro,

409
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:06.679
was the year of one of the
big UFO flaps that they called in

410
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:10.519
the United States, And for some
reason, it was on the news,

411
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:15.199
because that's how I heard about it, and it caught my attention, And

412
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:22.559
I mean from two fishermen in Pascagoula, Mississippi, who claimed that they were

413
00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:27.719
fishing and taken on board some kind
of a craft by beings all the way

414
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:34.599
to Ohio where a four man helicopter
crew encountered a UFO that they almost collided

415
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:39.920
with. To cases like that,
going from the ridiculous and crazy to the

416
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:47.079
totally credible that somehow just caught my
attention and I just wanted to know more

417
00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:52.679
about this, and so I started
literally, I started reading some books,

418
00:35:53.039 --> 00:36:00.039
because there have always been books.
The literature on UFOs has has never died,

419
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:07.440
whether whether there's books or magazines or
newsletters. The thing is, you

420
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:12.079
know, if you're just starting off
in this business, you've got to be

421
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:15.000
really careful because you don't know what
to believe or who to believe there.

422
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:21.400
And I remember, back when I
started reading about this stuff, I knew

423
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:28.199
that there were people that were considered
Charlatan's and hooksters and snake oil salesmen,

424
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.480
uh, just to get people to
buy their books and buy their t shirts

425
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:37.320
and you know, come to their
weekend retreats and pay money and watch those

426
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:42.000
strange lights in the sky. Uh. So there's always been that there still

427
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:49.639
is. But because of the choices
that I made of the things that I

428
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:53.559
thought I would like to do or
see, and because I was fortunate enough

429
00:36:53.639 --> 00:37:00.679
to meet a variety of individuals who
could help me take those steps to be

430
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:07.639
credible, I've been really fortunate that
I believe that I have. I'm not

431
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.920
going to say I know the truth
about UFO is because I don't really think

432
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:16.719
anybody does. I've come to believe
that, But I've learned so much from

433
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:23.960
so many people who I consider really
credible that that keeps motivating me. There's

434
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:30.000
something definitely out there, and I
may not know the answers in my lifetime,

435
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:32.840
but there's enough of it out there
that why should I give it up?

436
00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:40.360
It's totally fascinating. So getting back
to the movie, So the movie

437
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.519
for people who don't know, and
then we'll get it because you're kind of

438
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:46.480
getting into, you know, some
of these relations that you have, and

439
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:52.400
they're related to the movie and related
to some really important stuff regarding this field.

440
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:55.480
But just spoilers. You know,
if you haven't seen the movie,

441
00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:00.199
if you're you're old like Lee and
I, you know, you've probably seen

442
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:06.800
it many times. If you're really
young, at least relatively, you might

443
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:07.920
not have seen it at all.
So you've got to go see it.

444
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:13.639
But so this guy has a sighting, A bunch of people have a sighting.

445
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:16.480
There's a flap, kind of a
UFO flap. The government makes fun

446
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:22.440
of it, but some people,
including the main character, is compelled to

447
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:25.840
find out more. And for some
reason, he's got this image of the

448
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:31.400
mountain in his brain and like you
said, he starts to make it out

449
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:37.000
of mashed potatoes, and then a
bunch of crazy stuff happens that's so crazy

450
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:42.320
his family leaves him. Meanwhile,
a little kid's abducted, which is a

451
00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:46.519
great part to it. The government
meanwhile, even though they're saying there's nothing

452
00:38:46.599 --> 00:38:51.599
to it, are actually doing a
lot of stuff in the background. This

453
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:55.920
French guy modeled after Jacques Vallet is
in charge of, you know, trying

454
00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:59.719
to figure out what's going on,
and they kind of figure out that the

455
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:05.119
the aliens want to meet them by
Devil's Tower, so they pretend like there's

456
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:09.400
this this catastrophe of of like anthrax
that was released or something, so people

457
00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:16.119
all have to leave. The big
UFO comes down and the Richard Dreyfe's character

458
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:22.039
and the mother of the kid who
is abducted are able to sneak in and

459
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.400
observe all of this. A lot
of people come back once the craft lands,

460
00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:32.559
including the child, and Richard Dreyfus
decides with others to go off onto

461
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:40.239
the spaceship and with essentially is the
gist of the story. But you know,

462
00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:46.480
one of the consultants is Jay Allen
Heinek for the for that he was

463
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:53.039
listed as the advisor, who of
course was the Air Force the consultant.

464
00:39:54.119 --> 00:40:00.400
He was a well known person and
he was a scientist, So maybe you

465
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:02.960
could talk more about jail and Heineck
and you knew him and When did you

466
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:10.360
meet him? I met him in
nineteen seventy five when I started working on

467
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:22.440
a UFO documentary and audio documentary vinyl
recording for CBS, and I had put

468
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:27.320
a list of people who I had
read about and heard about. I mean,

469
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:32.119
even when I was a kid,
whenever there was any kind of UFO

470
00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:37.639
news on TV, you know,
back in the days when we only had

471
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:42.119
a black and white TV at home, if there was anything about strange things

472
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:46.280
in the sky, the Air Force
would always bring in this guy, doctor

473
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:51.880
Heinik, with the beard and his
pipe, and he would always explain it

474
00:40:51.960 --> 00:41:00.440
away as either swamp gas or misidentification
of the planet Venus or weather inversions.

475
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:06.639
And I remember thinking, oh,
I don't know what those words mean,

476
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:10.960
weather in versions, but the guy
sounds like he's authority, so maybe I

477
00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:19.559
should believe him. And I never
could have imagined Alejandro that years later I

478
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:22.159
would have the kind of relationship with
him where he was like to me,

479
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:27.880
he became a grand the grandfather that
I never knew. I never knew either

480
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:31.960
of my grandparents, but Alan Heinek
kind of took me under his wing like

481
00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:37.639
that, and it was amazing to
get to know this man because you could

482
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:44.000
tell that he was happy to have
left the Air Force after twenty two years

483
00:41:44.760 --> 00:41:51.159
of going around the country and explaining
UFOs and debunking things. And he had

484
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:54.719
no problem saying, hey, the
Air Force doesn't know how to do science.

485
00:41:55.320 --> 00:42:00.239
They're explaining things away that they shouldn't
be explaining too many cases that had

486
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:06.960
just left as unknowns, and then
just trying to just brush it all under

487
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:12.280
the carpet. And he hated that, hated that totally until you finally walked

488
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:15.480
away from the Air Force and said
I'm out of here. But after twenty

489
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:21.519
two years and so he was one
of the first people that I interviewed for

490
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:25.320
my record album because I wanted to
get his take on the things that he

491
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:30.519
had learned, the things that he
was told to do, his current opinion

492
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:37.079
on what UFOs or what some UFOs
might turn out to be or might point

493
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:43.280
us in a different direction for science. It was amazing to get to know

494
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:49.000
him. And when I told him
that I was considering trying to bring the

495
00:42:49.159 --> 00:42:53.960
subject and do a presentation about it
at the United Nations, he jumped all

496
00:42:54.000 --> 00:43:00.719
over that. He sent me this
letter that I still have and he said,

497
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:04.559
please, I want to be there
at the un with you. I

498
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:07.400
want to talk to the nations of
the world, just to let them know

499
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:12.719
what I think about all this.
It was amazing to me to know him.

500
00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:19.239
And you know, I'll watch Close
Encounters almost as many times as you

501
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:22.719
have, just to see him at
the end of the movie. Yeah,

502
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:28.199
so he is in the end.
Of course, I'm gonna be talking about

503
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:32.559
Spielberg and I'll be showing that clip
this weekend at the event. But if

504
00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:37.880
people go see the movie that's out
right now for the anniversary, it's towards

505
00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:42.280
the end and right when you know, the spaceship land and there's these pilots

506
00:43:42.320 --> 00:43:46.199
coming out who are missing from like
World War Two, and then you see

507
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:51.280
this scientist coming from the back and
a blue jacket and he kind of pushes

508
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:55.039
himself through the crowd and then puts
his pipe in his mouth and strokes his

509
00:43:55.199 --> 00:44:02.400
beard there and that that's him did
and that was common right, He had

510
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:07.639
pretty much the same facial hair and
that pipe and everything. Right. Yeah,

511
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:15.000
it was amazing And I can still
remember what it was like listening on

512
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:21.599
the news to how when in nineteen
I believe it was nineteen sixty six when

513
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:25.760
he was sent by the Air Force
to Michigan to explain some of the UFOs

514
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:30.599
there, and he said that it
might have been caused by swamp gas.

515
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:37.760
And almost immediately after that, Michigan
Congressman Gerald R. Ford came out with

516
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:42.480
these statements saying, no, no, I don't agree with Olkaheinech that you

517
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.199
know, you can't come to my
state and start calling people liars, and

518
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:50.920
so I'm going to demand a congressional
investigation. And he got it. It

519
00:44:51.079 --> 00:44:58.480
was such an interesting time of watching
the power play between these people, and

520
00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:01.880
then you know, then people will
se well after after Gerald Ford became president,

521
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:07.679
why did he suddenly shut up about
UFOs? Ah? Gee, there's

522
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:12.480
an interesting possibility. Why did he
what happened in Congress? Explain that?

523
00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:15.519
Because I don't think people A lot
of people know about that. They they

524
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:22.800
tried to get as many eyewitnesses as
possible for my album. I interviewed the

525
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:28.639
man who was the chair of the
Congressional Committee, Congressman J. Edward Rausch,

526
00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:32.920
and he said, basically, people
want to know about UFOs when you

527
00:45:34.119 --> 00:45:37.320
when you when you tell someone you
know, I don't know what it is,

528
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:40.039
and I want to know what it
is. You owe it to your

529
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:44.559
constituents to do whatever you can to
come up with an answer. And I

530
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:50.800
don't I don't remember how long the
congressional hearings lasted, but but basically,

531
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:55.519
as was with the case of Project
Blue Book itself, the Air Force investigation,

532
00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:01.760
uh the I believe the congressional hearings
ended with basically some people saying,

533
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:07.519
no, we don't think there's anything
to it that could merit any further scientific

534
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:09.800
research on it. And then it
quickly went away, just like that,

535
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:15.360
sort of like the result of the
un initiative that you were a part of.

536
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:21.679
Yeah, it's like you know,
when you're up against the big boys,

537
00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:27.440
and in my case it was the
big boys were the United States of

538
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:35.119
America, my own country, and
the then Soviet Union. They basically they

539
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:38.559
didn't want Well there's one more big
boy though, because America, we learned,

540
00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:43.320
didn't care too much. But there
was one group in particular, and

541
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:47.840
we have a mutual friend who eventually
worked for this group who you found out,

542
00:46:49.719 --> 00:46:53.239
and they even had your name,
worked very hard to shut down your

543
00:46:53.280 --> 00:47:01.159
whole initiative, right the well,
well I give you a United Kingdom.

544
00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:08.480
Well, well, you know the
funny thing about that was at the time,

545
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:13.920
in nineteen seventy eight, when I
was working behind the scenes to gather

546
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:19.920
information, documents, pictures, eyewitnesses, speakers to bring them to the UN

547
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:25.119
to do a real presentation. I
didn't know at the time that the UK

548
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:32.280
was trying to get my presentation shut
down before it even ever happened. It

549
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:39.760
took thirty years before I found out
about this. And at the time I

550
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:45.199
was working as a writer for the
Huffington Post. And as you know,

551
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:53.599
periodically the UK was releasing previously classified
documents from their own archives from the Ministry

552
00:47:53.639 --> 00:48:00.719
of Defense, and they used to
release these in batches. I mean,

553
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.599
I wrote about it, You wrote
about it. You know, all of

554
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:13.000
us who are interested, we're getting
these documents released. And I remember one

555
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:16.079
of the people, a mutual friend
of yours of mine, Nick Pope,

556
00:48:16.880 --> 00:48:23.039
used to run the UK's UFO office
for three years in the nineteen nineties.

557
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:30.320
So all UFO reports that kind of
came to the Ministry of Defense apparently went

558
00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:34.679
through Nick's hands and he had to
read them and decide, and he was

559
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:42.519
under he was under orders to do
whatever he could to put down these stories,

560
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:45.760
to ridicule them, to make them
go away. Let's not get the

561
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:49.880
public interested in the stuff. And
so I'm going to stop you right there,

562
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:52.000
and this will be a good cliffhanger
because we have to go to break.

563
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:57.800
So of course we do air this
on KGRA and we take some commercial

564
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:00.079
breaks. So for those of you
listening the k g r A, you

565
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:05.039
know, listen to the commercials.
Go patronize those people because it helps keep

566
00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:08.280
k g r A on the air. And for you podcasters, you'll just

567
00:49:08.400 --> 00:50:13.920
hear a slight musical break and we'll
be right back with Lispiegel. All right,

568
00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:17.119
we are back and you were listening
to Open Mind UFO Radio, and

569
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:22.760
my guest is journalist Lee doctor Lee
Spiegel. Sorry, I must forgot to

570
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:28.480
call you doctor some some people.
Yeah, people are going to get the

571
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:31.400
wrong impression and then everybody's going to
be calling you doctor Lee Spiegel. Will

572
00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:37.599
be my fault. But you weren't
just talking about our friend Nick Pope and

573
00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:45.039
how him and his buddies were trying
to thwart your efforts. Well well,

574
00:50:45.960 --> 00:50:50.760
and I'll come back to that point
because he later and later he has apologized

575
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:55.800
to me about this, But I
I was working on uh we had the

576
00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:04.159
UK had just released some new documents
to the public, and so I started

577
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:10.440
looking at them and I realized that
there were documents from the late nineteen seventies.

578
00:51:10.519 --> 00:51:15.159
Now, my United Nations presentation was
in nineteen seventy eight, and I

579
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:20.920
started looking at these documents, and
one by one by one, I'm reading

580
00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:25.519
these things that had just been released
by Great Britain, and it seemed very

581
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:32.880
clear that in nineteen seventy seven and
seventy eight there was a strong attempt by

582
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:40.280
the UK to stop my UFO event
at the UN in New York in nineteen

583
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.800
seventy eight. I mean, there
were actual documents and quotes, and the

584
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:50.159
documents said things like, we don't
think that it would be a good idea

585
00:51:50.239 --> 00:51:55.039
for the United Nations to take on
the subject of UFOs, because it wouldn't

586
00:51:55.119 --> 00:52:00.639
be good for the UN's reputation to
be dealing with something like this. And

587
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:05.199
I went, wait a minute,
what So I took some of these documents

588
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:09.440
to my editor at Huffington Post and
I said, look, look at these

589
00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:15.880
documents. They're talking about thirty years
ago trying to stop my presentation at the

590
00:52:15.960 --> 00:52:21.800
United Nations. Now this story has
become personal to me. Can I write

591
00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:27.320
this story in the first person and
not in the third person. And my

592
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:31.599
editor said, yeah, go do
it, and so I just completely reorganized

593
00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:38.239
my thoughts and turned it into into
like my story countering the UN story.

594
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:45.360
And I found all these quotes,
and I thought to myself, I should

595
00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:49.760
call Nick Pope and I should ask
him what he knows about this. And

596
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:53.480
I called Nick and as soon as
he got on the phone with me,

597
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:59.880
he said, oh, I know
why you're calling me. I said,

598
00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:01.880
oh, you do, do you? He said, Look, let me

599
00:53:02.039 --> 00:53:07.440
just tell you that when you did
your United Nations presentation in nineteen seventy eight,

600
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:14.920
I was only thirteen years old,
so you can't blame me. And

601
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:19.039
he will always confirm that story.
He said, Look, for what it's

602
00:53:19.119 --> 00:53:27.000
worth, I will now offer you
a sincere, unofficial apology on behalf of

603
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:30.679
my country for what we did to
you or what we tried to do to

604
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:35.119
you in nineteen seventy eight. I
mean, what a story. I couldn't

605
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:37.639
believe it that it took thirty years
so this to come to my attention.

606
00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:43.559
And what did they mean that it
wouldn't be good for the UN's reputation.

607
00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:47.960
What's the problem, everybody? Why
would it be good. Those files were

608
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:52.159
interesting, the efforts that they were
going to squash the whole thing. But

609
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:55.400
yeah, you know, during that
period of time. Of course, I

610
00:53:55.519 --> 00:54:02.079
think Close Encounters came out in seventy
seven, and because of this, you

611
00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:06.679
actually got to meet Spielberg. So
maybe I think you've told this story on

612
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:10.519
the podcast before. For a lot
of this Lee has gone at length about

613
00:54:10.519 --> 00:54:16.400
the whole un thing with I on
the podcast. But let's revisit that because

614
00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:22.159
I want to follow up with some
newer information about this. But you all

615
00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:27.559
you got invited to because of the
un event right to go visit Spielberg with

616
00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:35.199
some of the Close Encounters people.
Essentially, well, while Spielberg was working

617
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:37.880
on the movie, I guess it
was probably near the end of production and

618
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:42.440
they were getting ready to release the
movie in nineteen seventy seven. It was

619
00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:46.920
the big holiday movie for that year. I had already started talking to doctor

620
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:52.840
Jay Allen Heinek about my idea to
do something at the United Nations, and

621
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:58.159
he was very excited about that.
So apparently behind the scenes, a little

622
00:54:58.199 --> 00:55:04.039
even behind my back. But I
didn't mind that because Heinick had a relationship

623
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:09.559
with Spielberg because of the connection with
the movie. Apparently, Heinick told Spielberg

624
00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:15.280
that he Heinick was going to be
part of this United Nations event coming up

625
00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:21.320
in nineteen seventy eight, and I
guess he must have told Spielberg or someone

626
00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:25.840
in the Columbia Pictures publicity department,
and literally I was at home in New

627
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:31.760
York and I got a call from
Columbia Pictures asking if I would be available

628
00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:37.199
to come out to California and to
meet with Steven Spielberg, doctor Heinik and

629
00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:40.320
doctor Vala, and I said,
yeah, I think so, but what

630
00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:45.559
are we meaning about? And they
said, well, we understand you're getting

631
00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:51.480
ready to do a United Nations presentation
on UFOs and Steven would like to sit

632
00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:54.360
with you guys and see if the's
anything that he or the studio can do

633
00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:58.880
to support that or to help you
with that. And I said, yeah,

634
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:01.480
I'm going to be there. In
fact, by the end of the

635
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:07.440
conversation, my bags will be packed. I'm ready to come to California.

636
00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:14.519
And that's exactly what happened. And
that was the first time that I actually

637
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:20.280
met Jacques Vallet because he came in. He came in to the Los Angeles

638
00:56:21.159 --> 00:56:25.039
and he was already living in the
San Francisco area. Alan Heinek was flown

639
00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:30.079
in from Illinois, and I came
in from New York, and we all

640
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:32.599
three of us, were brought to
the studio, brought it to Steven's office,

641
00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:38.639
and there we were sitting around talking
about UFOs and I just wanted to

642
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:44.400
beg somebody there to pinch me because
it didn't seem real to me. But

643
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:47.199
I didn't want to come off as
being totally nerdy like that, so I

644
00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:51.679
kept it to myself. He was
probably a kid back then, right you

645
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:55.000
too, though? Yeah? Well
that you know that was That was nineteen

646
00:56:55.360 --> 00:57:01.480
early seventy eight, So I was. I was just under thirty years old,

647
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:06.960
and Steven and I are about the
same age. Uh and and and

648
00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:12.280
literally he was most well known for
I believe three things. At that point,

649
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:16.679
A made a TV movie with Dennis
Dennis Oh what's his name? He

650
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:22.199
used to be on dunsw No,
No Dennis. He played the deputy.

651
00:57:22.239 --> 00:57:32.800
He played McLeod, the Dennis before
os. Okay, anyway, he he

652
00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:39.960
played a regular driver who was followed
by this menacing duel a duel exactly.

653
00:57:40.119 --> 00:57:45.079
Yeah, Dennis Weaver was his name. Yeah, and so I think that

654
00:57:45.239 --> 00:57:49.920
was one of the first things that
Stephen did, in addition to a night

655
00:57:50.000 --> 00:57:55.519
Gallery episode that Stephen did, and
then came Jaws and then came Close Encounters.

656
00:57:57.559 --> 00:58:02.000
So his name was was coming certainly
up the ranks of Hollywood, and

657
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:05.679
so I certainly knew who he was. I was already a fan of his,

658
00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:10.480
and so it was it was great
to talk to him for the period

659
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:16.519
of time that we were there,
and he eventually had the studio provide me

660
00:58:16.840 --> 00:58:22.840
with any kinds of visual materials that
I needed, whether it was pictures or

661
00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:30.760
posters or diagrams or drawings that we
could use at the United Nations that he

662
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:35.039
had used in production for the movie, and they sent us stuff that I

663
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:38.119
didn't use at the United Nations.
And you have like a unique posters.

664
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:44.840
How you got that this poster that
you have, I do was it was

665
00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:47.360
during that time, it was still
when the movie was about to be released

666
00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:54.000
that I was. I became friendly
with one of the people at Columbia Studios

667
00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:59.079
in New York, and they asked
me if I wanted a couple of posters

668
00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:04.199
that they had printed up that originally
were going to be used as a publicity

669
00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:10.800
for the movie, and it basically
was like a dark night, a lonely

670
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:16.119
road, and traveling above the road
was this was like one of the UFOs

671
00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:22.400
from the movie. And the only
words above the UFO in the sky were

672
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:29.079
the words we are not alone.
And I guess for some reason the studio

673
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:32.880
thought that wasn't catchy enough, and
so they made a similar poster, but

674
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:37.119
they added more texts to it,
like we are not alone. A close

675
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:40.719
encounter of the first kind is blah
blah blah, close encounter of the second

676
00:59:40.800 --> 00:59:45.400
kind, blah blah blah, close
encounter of the third kind. So they

677
00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:49.960
filled the poster up with more texts
and more words. And I took a

678
00:59:50.039 --> 00:59:52.639
few of the posters just because they
offered them to me, and I've got

679
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:57.760
one hanging in my bedroom now at
home. I'm very proud of it.

680
00:59:58.000 --> 01:00:01.920
It's not going to be offered on
eBay anytime soon. I like your version

681
01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:06.920
actually better. It's cool because it's
simple, and yeah, I think you

682
01:00:06.920 --> 01:00:12.960
would agree the saying we are not
alone is powerful. Yeah, and we

683
01:00:13.039 --> 01:00:16.960
are not alone in the UFO the
road and at the very bottom simply close

684
01:00:17.039 --> 01:00:20.880
encounters of the third kind. And
you believe that, right, and I

685
01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:23.840
think you believe we are not alone. Oh, of course, yeah,

686
01:00:23.960 --> 01:00:30.079
I have no problem with that.
I mean I really don't. There really

687
01:00:30.320 --> 01:00:34.800
is. I believe too much evidence. And the hard core skeptics and the

688
01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:38.760
debunkers will say, no, there's
no evidence. It's all anecdotal, it's

689
01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:44.840
all hearsaying, it's all people making
stuff up. But you know what it's

690
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:50.559
not. It's much more than that. When you talk to people who have

691
01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:58.960
had encounters with something that is totally
extraordinary. And I'm not talking about something

692
01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:04.400
that landed in the one's backyard and
picked up a few soil samples and went

693
01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:09.199
back up into the air where that
might have happened. I was much more

694
01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:17.760
compelled in nineteen seventy three at your
birth Alejandro, first of all, and

695
01:01:17.960 --> 01:01:24.239
in October of seventy three the story
of the Army helicopter that almost collided with

696
01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:30.480
the UFO. It grabbed me by
the throat so hard that and it was

697
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:38.320
such an amazing close encounter that and
witnesses on the ground saw it happened as

698
01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:46.079
well. When the helicopter landed,
the Army let the crew go ahead and

699
01:01:46.159 --> 01:01:51.920
tell their story. And I first
saw the commander of the helicopter. Larry

700
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:57.400
con on the Old Dick Cabot Show, and he told this story, and

701
01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:02.679
I went, wait a minute,
really, this can't be true. But

702
01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:10.079
it was, and it was just
something that the army couldn't they couldn't explain

703
01:02:10.159 --> 01:02:16.679
away. I don't know how debunkers
could have thought that it was the crescent

704
01:02:16.840 --> 01:02:23.159
Moon or the planet Venus. This
thing that came at the helicopter like a

705
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:28.760
like a missile locked onto the aircraft. Uh. And then it stopped.

706
01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:35.159
Instead of hitting the helicopter, it
hovered directly above the copter and they could

707
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:42.599
and it shone a green light.
Inside the cockpit of the helicopter. All

708
01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:46.440
four crew members saw this thing,
and because of the reflection of the light,

709
01:02:46.840 --> 01:02:52.000
they could all see that it was
a cigar shape. It had no

710
01:02:52.440 --> 01:02:58.360
no forward wings, no back wings, no tail, just a dark cigar

711
01:02:58.519 --> 01:03:05.960
shaped And as they sat there,
all of a sudden, the helicopter started

712
01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:12.000
rising up very quickly, as if
a tractor beam had locked onto it by

713
01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:16.039
the cigar shaped thing that was above
them. It lifted up their helicopter several

714
01:03:16.159 --> 01:03:21.159
thousand feet in the air in a
matter of seconds. Then there was a

715
01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:24.239
bump and a jolt and they were
released and the UFO took off, and

716
01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:32.320
that's when the helicopter went and landed. And I wanted the captain of the

717
01:03:32.360 --> 01:03:38.639
helicopter, Larry Coin, on the
UFO documentary record that I produced in nineteen

718
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:43.920
seventy five, but I also wanted
him as one of my speakers at the

719
01:03:44.039 --> 01:03:47.639
United Nations in nineteen seventy eight.
And I asked him if he would come

720
01:03:47.719 --> 01:03:52.360
to the UN and tell his story, and he said, I'd love to,

721
01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:59.239
but you're going to have to get
permission from my commanding officer back in

722
01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:01.480
Ohio. And I said, okay, give me the guy's number, and

723
01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:08.559
I called Captain Coin's commanding officer,
explained who I was and how I wanted

724
01:04:09.079 --> 01:04:14.000
Captain Coin to come to the United
Nations, And to my huge surprise,

725
01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:19.519
the officer said to me, okay, we will allow Captain Coin to join

726
01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:23.599
you and to speak at the United
Nations, but on one condition, and

727
01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:30.199
I said, name it. He
cannot appear there in uniform. He must

728
01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:33.519
wear civilian clothes. He can appear
as a civilian. And I said,

729
01:04:33.800 --> 01:04:38.199
so you're saying if I buy him
a suit, he's okay to come to

730
01:04:38.239 --> 01:04:41.719
the UN. Said yep, that's
all we ask, and that's exactly what

731
01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:47.199
happened. So it was amazing to
me. And so stuff like that is

732
01:04:47.719 --> 01:04:54.800
seeing being there listening to his testimony
again, watching how you could literally hear

733
01:04:54.840 --> 01:04:59.880
a pin drop at the un when
he was giving his testimony. That says

734
01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:03.280
to me, excuse me, but
we're not alone. I don't care where

735
01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:08.679
these things come from. I don't
care who's piloting them. I don't care.

736
01:05:09.159 --> 01:05:14.840
All I know is that there's something
extraordinary going on here, and I'd

737
01:05:14.920 --> 01:05:17.239
like to know more about it.
Now. I whant to change the topic.

738
01:05:17.320 --> 01:05:23.320
I'd touch on something else before we're
done here, and that is I

739
01:05:24.199 --> 01:05:29.559
have been told by Don Schmidt,
who worked with Heinik. You know early

740
01:05:29.679 --> 01:05:35.719
on what Heinek's reaction was to the
Close Encounter movie. Did he ever share

741
01:05:35.800 --> 01:05:44.119
his opinions with you? He he
never really liked how some of the things

742
01:05:44.280 --> 01:05:51.280
were portrayed. I think because of
all the years that Allen spent actually getting

743
01:05:51.840 --> 01:05:56.280
down and deep in the soil and
going to places like Socorro, New Mexico,

744
01:05:56.920 --> 01:06:02.480
and really investigating places where you have
may have landed and left traces behind,

745
01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:09.239
and how people describe certain things that
happened. I think that he felt

746
01:06:09.719 --> 01:06:16.039
that that Spielberg may have taken more
liberties with the movie than he would have

747
01:06:16.159 --> 01:06:19.679
enjoyed. I believe I believe that
Jacques Bevrolet feels the same way. There's

748
01:06:19.719 --> 01:06:26.679
a you know, there's a definite
feeling about how you give the public what

749
01:06:27.119 --> 01:06:30.840
Hollywood wants you to give them,
or you give the public what you think

750
01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:33.840
the public wants to see. I've
always thought, and I've always said this,

751
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:43.400
that you don't have to over embellish
things about UFOs. The subject itself

752
01:06:43.760 --> 01:06:48.800
is already sensational, so you don't
have to create scenarios within a movie to

753
01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:54.119
make it. See is a movie, so it's got to be dramatizic.

754
01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:57.360
It's hard to you can't go over
every case. So I think they're in

755
01:06:57.559 --> 01:07:01.920
trying to encapsulate, Yeah, the
whole idea and kind of some of the

756
01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:04.960
things people report, which I think
they did good, although I can see

757
01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:08.480
their points. And you did touch
on this a bit, but yeah,

758
01:07:08.559 --> 01:07:14.559
you said that Valet had actually recently
what is recent, like is last week

759
01:07:14.679 --> 01:07:17.159
or something you had talked about this
and he shared the same He was a

760
01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:24.239
bit disappointed as well. Uh,
I think that they that they both Valet

761
01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:30.480
and Heinik felt that you don't have
to over embelloce something. Just just keep

762
01:07:30.519 --> 01:07:33.239
it the way it is, keep
it truthful. If anything, make a

763
01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:39.760
documentary, but it's Hollywood, and
Hollywood wants to make a lot of money.

764
01:07:39.880 --> 01:07:45.719
I get that. I'm okay with
that. But I mean, listen,

765
01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:47.239
I love the movie as much as
you did. You know, there's

766
01:07:47.239 --> 01:07:50.880
so much about it. I love
the characters, I love the special effects.

767
01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:56.960
You and I have have come become
very friendly with the king of the

768
01:07:57.000 --> 01:08:00.159
special effects of that movie, Douglas
Trumbull. I mean, what do you

769
01:08:00.199 --> 01:08:05.119
got about Doug Trumbull too, is
that he's a big ufo guy, and

770
01:08:05.559 --> 01:08:10.639
of course he did the special effects
for Close Encounters. But I interviewed him.

771
01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:15.239
He said he didn't even know that
Heinich was a consultant. He didn't

772
01:08:15.320 --> 01:08:17.880
know he could have spoken to Heinich. He came up with all the stuff

773
01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:23.319
by himself, with no input from
Heineck at all. And he regrets it

774
01:08:23.479 --> 01:08:27.439
because he loved he would have loved
to have talked with him. So funny

775
01:08:27.560 --> 01:08:30.399
thing. But I guess you know, and I think you and I would

776
01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:32.439
agree. I mean, I could
I can see their point of view.

777
01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:36.199
I was shocked when I heard that
Heinich didn't really like the movie. H

778
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:42.600
not as surprised because of Heineck's perspective
when you told me Vallet felt similar.

779
01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:46.680
But I can see their perspective because
if it was us, if it was

780
01:08:46.800 --> 01:08:49.720
you or I a case that we
had done, like, for instance,

781
01:08:49.720 --> 01:08:54.960
if they decided to do a movie
about your whole un experience, they would

782
01:08:55.079 --> 01:09:00.319
dramatize it. You know, you
would definitely have a love interest who who

783
01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:06.560
knows it, maybe Stanton Friedman's character
they had turned into a woman who would

784
01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:11.680
then fall in love with you and
you guys would run off into the night

785
01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:16.359
or something. But I could see, so I can see their perspective.

786
01:09:16.520 --> 01:09:19.920
But then again, yeah, it
was a great movie and it's something that

787
01:09:20.039 --> 01:09:26.439
certainly inspired me. And we've only
got like a minute left. But well,

788
01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:30.199
you know, I'm very grateful to
know you and to know that you

789
01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:34.920
are one of those people who I
admire because you don't you don't screw around

790
01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:39.880
with having to make stuff up for
the stories that you write. That's why,

791
01:09:41.079 --> 01:09:45.560
that's why I've always enjoyed stealing from
you, because you're so credible.

792
01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:49.239
With the things that you do,
so thank you for that. Well,

793
01:09:49.399 --> 01:09:55.399
ditto, ditto. So, yeah, we are pretty much out of time,

794
01:09:55.720 --> 01:09:59.560
but you are still active in the
UFO field, although you're not working

795
01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:04.399
for a huff to Post anymore.
And I guess do you Is UFO still

796
01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:09.680
on your agenda at least for your
near future? It is. I am

797
01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:15.159
currently working on what I hope is
going to be a very telling, interesting

798
01:10:15.039 --> 01:10:21.279
UFO documentary with the great filmmaker James
Fox, who has already created what I

799
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:28.520
believe are two of the best UFO
films ever, two films called out of

800
01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:30.840
the Blue and I know what I
saw, and so I'm now working on

801
01:10:31.239 --> 01:10:35.159
his third UFO documentary. I'm going
to be writing the script for this,

802
01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:39.720
and I couldn't be happy of doing
this with him. Well, good luck.

803
01:10:39.880 --> 01:10:43.039
I agree. I think a lot
of people would agree. He's got

804
01:10:43.079 --> 01:10:45.760
the best, some of the best
documentaries out there on the topic. So

805
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:51.800
and I know others are really excited
for his new project, and now doubly

806
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:56.880
so now knowing that you're working on
it. Thank you. I appreciate that,

807
01:10:56.920 --> 01:11:00.720
Alejandro. All Right, Well,
thanks for joining us, and I'm

808
01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:02.000
sure we'll be talking to you soon. In fact, I think you're the

809
01:11:02.000 --> 01:11:06.039
guests who's been on the show the
most. That's because I'm an MD.

810
01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:12.880
I have the doctor exactly exactly.
All right, we'll talk to you later,

811
01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:16.399
Doctor Spiegel, Thank you, Doctor
Rojas. Thank you so much to

812
01:11:16.479 --> 01:11:21.920
Les Spiegel for joining us once again
on Open Minds UFO Radio. It's always

813
01:11:23.000 --> 01:11:27.600
fun to have him on. Well, he's just so knowledgeable. He's been

814
01:11:27.640 --> 01:11:30.119
involved with so many things over the
years, and especially right now, I

815
01:11:30.279 --> 01:11:35.840
mean with it comes to close encounters. You know, just what was going

816
01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:41.199
on during that time with the un
the stuff that he was involved with,

817
01:11:41.319 --> 01:11:45.520
Spielberg's genuine interest in UFOs, it's
all really exciting. And of course then

818
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:49.800
Lee having worked with Heinich and Valet
and even recently gotten to talk with Valet

819
01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:56.399
about close encounters, so really really
exciting stuff. Now, some of these

820
01:11:56.439 --> 01:12:00.720
stories such as Heinich sending Lee to
go and destigate this UFO with police and

821
01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:08.079
everything, and where he saw this
large triangular UFO, the whole un thing

822
01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:13.840
and what happened there. We've got
podcasts with Lee where we go over all

823
01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:17.600
of that. So go look into
our archives and pull out those podcasts.

824
01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:21.880
You will not be disappointed if you
are not aware of those situations and you

825
01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:27.840
want to know more, so go
check those out otherwise. Also, you

826
01:12:27.920 --> 01:12:30.880
know, when it comes to Spielberg
and UFOs, like I was talking about,

827
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:34.920
I have a big chunk in my
talk about the strange alien cases.

828
01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:39.960
So you guys can go look at
that. Go to Ufocongress dot com and

829
01:12:40.000 --> 01:12:44.159
you'll be able to find our video
on demand section there and you'll be able

830
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:46.479
to watch those. You can also
find that at the open Minds dot tv

831
01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:49.560
website, so you can see some
of that. Otherwise you're just going to

832
01:12:49.640 --> 01:12:53.880
have to come to Wyoming and hear
more. I've got a lot of really

833
01:12:53.960 --> 01:12:59.600
great stuff on Spielberg and some of
his UFO interests, so I'm super super

834
01:12:59.720 --> 01:13:03.520
exout it. Another thing that I
am really, really really excited about is

835
01:13:03.680 --> 01:13:10.159
the UFO Congress. So we are
posting speakers practically every week. We're posting

836
01:13:10.199 --> 01:13:15.279
new speakers as we get everything confirmed
and arranged and so and all their information

837
01:13:15.479 --> 01:13:19.600
back. So go to Ufocongress dot
com to check out some of the speakers

838
01:13:19.640 --> 01:13:23.800
we're going to have this year.
We're going to have some really cool speakers

839
01:13:23.840 --> 01:13:27.399
stuff that you haven't seen before.
That's going to be fresh and new to

840
01:13:27.520 --> 01:13:30.079
this field. That's what's fun about
the Congress is we like to bring information

841
01:13:30.319 --> 01:13:35.520
to the four that otherwise people would
not know about that I think you all

842
01:13:35.600 --> 01:13:40.880
are going to be really excited about. Go to Ufocongress dot com to keep

843
01:13:41.039 --> 01:13:44.520
up to speed on that. Otherwise, all the news that you heard Martin

844
01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:46.960
and I talking about at the beginning
of the show and you can find at

845
01:13:47.119 --> 01:13:51.279
openminds dot tv. So be sure
to go there, check out our new

846
01:13:51.399 --> 01:13:56.039
stories, and then also check out, you know, the daily headlines like

847
01:13:56.159 --> 01:13:58.920
we talk about often, you'll see
those on the front page. But also

848
01:13:58.960 --> 01:14:01.600
if you go to the articles drop
down menu, you can go to daily

849
01:14:01.720 --> 01:14:06.640
UFO headlines or look at UFO sidings, UFO videos, all the different stories

850
01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:11.039
that we've written about. I want
to remind you too, you can't find

851
01:14:11.079 --> 01:14:15.239
out about the UFO Rendezvou n Wyoming
that we've been talking about at the Openminds

852
01:14:15.239 --> 01:14:20.079
dot tv page on the events tab. And then also you can of course

853
01:14:20.199 --> 01:14:27.760
go to their website which is simply
Devil's Tower ufoerndezvou dot com. The hardest

854
01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:31.000
part about it is spelling Rendezvous.
Otherwise, I want to thank Caleb Hanks

855
01:14:31.039 --> 01:14:35.600
for the opening and close music.
I want to thank KGRA and thank you

856
01:14:35.760 --> 01:14:40.960
for the listeners on KGRA listening right
now, and then I also want to

857
01:14:41.039 --> 01:15:32.960
of course thank you the listeners,
Audios, moo chucos, you mu