WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:45.359 Hello, and welcome to Open Mind UFO Radio. This is your host, 2 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:50.920 Alejandro Rojas, and I am with You might think it's Martin Willis. Martin 3 00:00:51.399 --> 00:00:56.399 not here, Willis. He's actually not here. He's in Florida. He's 4 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:59.679 running around trying checking out hotel or something like that. So we couldn't make 5 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:03.840 it too record the show. And I guess his guest cancelor on him, 6 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:07.000 so he won't be doing his own show podcast UFO this week. But before 7 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:12.079 you feel sorry for him, he did send me a picture of these beautiful 8 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:17.920 white beaches where he's at, So he does not deserve our pity at all. 9 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:21.280 In fact, he should be the one pitying us who are back, 10 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:26.359 you know, doing our regular life riga ramole. He's doing fine, so 11 00:01:26.560 --> 00:01:30.000 I hope he has a great time. He's actually there for work, but 12 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:33.920 he's planning on doing a lot of fun stuff too. So Martin's not here 13 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:36.760 with us. But I got a lot of news to go over anyway, 14 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:41.239 So with that and we could probably get through more. So I want to 15 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:45.079 talk to you first about my guest. My guest tonight is rich Hoffman. 16 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:49.920 He's been on the show before. He's a part of the Scientific Coalition for 17 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:55.920 Eufology, so we've talked about that. He's also a researcher. He actually 18 00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:00.480 grew up in Dayton, Hawaii, are near Dayton, Ohio, which is 19 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.239 of course his word. Project blue Book was actually headed out of Wright Patterson 20 00:02:04.359 --> 00:02:07.280 Air Force Base. He started when he was a kid. In fact, 21 00:02:07.800 --> 00:02:14.039 at fifteen, he appeared on the Phil Doni Hu Show and he became known 22 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:17.800 as kind of this local UFO expert. So he's been in this field for 23 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:23.159 decades. He was known for, you know, being the state director in 24 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:28.840 Alabama. He also was a director of Muffon's strategic projects. He's no longer 25 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:32.639 with Mufon though now he's with the SEU, the Scientific Coalition for Ufology, 26 00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:38.520 which he helped start. And for a full disclosure, I actually was part 27 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:44.400 of the formation of this organization as well. I'm kind of an board advisor, 28 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:49.719 not necessarily a board member. But in this show we talk about the 29 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:59.240 SCU, but in particular the need for scientific investigation of the UFO phenomena and 30 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:06.439 kind of the credible investigation and this interface with science that needs to happen. 31 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:10.560 I've said over and over again there needs to be a SETI of UFOs. 32 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.240 And the reason I say that is because you may not be aware, but 33 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:19.240 watching this closely, you know, in the nineties to now, there's been 34 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:24.400 a huge transformation. It used to be that the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, 35 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:29.680 also known as SETI. Often when you refer to the term SETI, people 36 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:34.280 think of Sas Shastak and Jill Tarter. These are scientists who work in this 37 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:39.080 arena. They work for an organization called the SETI Institute. So it's a 38 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:45.240 little different now. And of course I repeat this over and over again practically 39 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.919 every episode we bring up SETI because it's very important to understand the distinction, 40 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.479 because there are SETI initiatives. In other words, SETI stands for the search 41 00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:00.000 for Extraterrestrial intelligence. There are those sort of initiatives outside of this organisation, 42 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:04.000 the institute that happened, So that's important to note. So when you're referring 43 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:09.319 to SETI and more and more as you know, we read these articles and 44 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:15.879 see people working in this arena, that term does not mean the SETI Institute, 45 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:18.759 and it used to. But getting back to why there needs to be 46 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:24.879 a SETI of UFOs and why I use that terminology is that in the nineties 47 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:29.720 or earlier on kind of like if you saw this movie Contact, great movie 48 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:33.879 starring Jodie Foster. It's actually based on a book written by Carl Sagan, 49 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:43.000 but the whole search for extraterrestrial intelligence was not taken very seriously decades ago, 50 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:47.040 even up into the nineties where things started to change. In fact, you 51 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:51.079 know, it was seen as very fringe and kind of silly, as represented 52 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:56.439 in that movie. So it wasn't taken very seriously there. It's a lot 53 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.240 of fodder to make fun of it. However, things changed over time, 54 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:05.560 and now some could argue that a NASA is a SETI sort of organization, 55 00:05:06.160 --> 00:05:12.680 so much of what NASA is doing is looking for life and other projects kind 56 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:16.240 of related to that. That this is really and not only that, anything 57 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:24.040 the Seti Institute does becomes news. So it's really changed from being fringe to 58 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:28.680 mainstream. So now you're probably seeing why I keep saying there needs to be 59 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:34.600 a SETI of UFO research, really moving this topic from the fringe into the 60 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:40.040 sirius. Now, I believe that lou Elizondo who's come out, who worked 61 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:45.199 for the Pentagon investigating UFOs. That's kind of been debated in UFO circles, 62 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:49.800 but fortunately is not being debated in the areas where I think it's most important, 63 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:55.399 which is the mainstream and in mainstream science, and that has begun to 64 00:05:55.519 --> 00:06:00.240 change things. There is kind of this movement, but what SETI did was 65 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:04.199 essentially stacked the deck with scientists. They got lots of scientists involved, They 66 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:12.399 interfaced with scientists, They tackled this issue head on, and they became a 67 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:16.680 part of the community, a part of the zeitgeist, a part of the 68 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:25.240 kind of what we see as science and space is looking for extraterrestrial intelligence, 69 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:28.480 which makes sense. I mean, we've got Star Trek, We've got Star 70 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:34.040 Wars, we've got all of this sort of cultural perception of space and ideas 71 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:39.000 of space having to do with alien life. It should be, or it 72 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:45.519 can be something that we look towards and try to discover and take seriously. 73 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:49.240 So there has to be this movement. I'm very excited for the Scientific Coalition 74 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:54.480 for Eupology because I think this is the group. There have been groups kind 75 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.439 of attempting to do this in the past, but none as prolific, I 76 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:05.959 would say, as you know, hardworking as this group that the Scientific Coalition 77 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:10.439 for ufology. The SCU, for example, we're going to talk about Rich 78 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:13.560 and what he's up to, and what SEU is up to and what his 79 00:07:13.759 --> 00:07:17.839 goals are for this organization. But they're getting a lot done. If you 80 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:23.639 go to their website explore s CU dot org, you'll see a lot of 81 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:28.279 stuff there. You'll see some papers, some science kind of based papers, 82 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:36.319 other research into UFOs that have been done serious credible investigation or at least theorizing 83 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:43.279 over how we really discover something, how we move things along, and how 84 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.959 we take this take a serious look at this topic. So I'm very excited 85 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:51.920 to talk to Rich. You know, he works actually out of Huntsville, 86 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:59.079 Alabama, near the Redstone Arsenal. He works for Army Material Command. Actually 87 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:05.600 he is a IT contractor, so he works in the computer field. So 88 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.839 he's got this insight into that world, at least on the intelligence side, 89 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.279 which is helpful, or at least i should say, in the government end, 90 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:18.000 which is helpful because you know, that's sort of where this conversation is 91 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:22.240 going. We've had Nick pop on recently to talk about that, so it's 92 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:26.199 very exciting. In fact, what else is cool is John Alexander, Army 93 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:35.679 retired Army intelligence officer. He also has gone into the civilian world to work 94 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:41.679 in defense and on weaponry and all of this great stuff. But he's really 95 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.159 into UFOs and he investigated. He had this group that he put together to 96 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:50.720 look into where are the secrets? What does the government know that they're not 97 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:56.840 telling us. What he found was, like you said, it was more 98 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:01.840 kind of bumbling bureaucracy and just really dropping the ball is what he found, 99 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:07.759 more so than kind of this major overall secrecy. And he he spoke at 100 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:13.320 Phoenix move On recently and just the other day, and it was a great 101 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:18.120 talk because he talks about budgets. He talks about how you're able to do 102 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:22.000 this sort of thing. You know, lou Elizondo has talked about this quite 103 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:26.960 a bit. If you've read George Knapp's articles on more information that he has 104 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:31.879 discovered regarding a tip this organization from the Pentagon that investigated the UFO's you know, 105 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.759 more around the budgets and Harry Reid, the Senator, and how they 106 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:41.799 had to frame things and word things in order to get money into this group 107 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:46.279 to do their UFO research without mentioning the word UFO. We're going to talk 108 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:54.200 about that with Rich because that's really important. People and funding run from the 109 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:58.320 term UFO because of all the baggage that the term has with it. And 110 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:07.200 these are serious considerations when we're looking into moving things forward and getting people involved 111 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:13.279 who have an interest but are afraid of the blowback that can happen. Harry 112 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:18.720 Reid talked about that that fear, that very real issue that they had when 113 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.200 they were trying to set up a tip. So it's a big deal. 114 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.440 It's a big thing, and we've got to work smarter, I think in 115 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:31.799 this field if we really want to make some progress, and that's what I 116 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:35.840 think SCU is doing. That's what I personally feel that To the Stars Academy 117 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:43.960 is doing. It's not easy and it's very difficult. Everything's nuanced, everything 118 00:10:45.120 --> 00:10:50.360 has to be you know, you're literally walking on egg shells. Everything has 119 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.759 to be done right, and that's why it takes insiders to guide this and 120 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.879 to move things along. And I'm excited that that is what we now have 121 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.440 happening. So I have mentioned that, you know that I'm going to have 122 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:07.840 lou Elisondo on the show. We're looking like probably the next show will be 123 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:13.399 that interview. So I'm very excited about that. We'll bring this conversation forward 124 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:18.519 even further, and then maybe after that I'll have John Alexander. We'll talk 125 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:24.080 about his talk at Phoenix. Move on. But this is a really important 126 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.759 time for this field, and we have to capitalize on it, and we 127 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:33.080 can't just stick to and I don't mean to insult anybody, you all know, 128 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:37.120 I never intend to do that, But there's a lot of sloppy thinking. 129 00:11:37.559 --> 00:11:39.120 You know, there's a lot of well, it must be this, 130 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:43.120 or it must be that, and if I look at the you know, 131 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:48.039 they whoever they may be, do this, so that must mean they're hiding 132 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:54.080 this or that that happened. And all of these scenarios are wild and fringe, 133 00:11:54.559 --> 00:12:01.759 and so many people, so many even prominent quote unquote UFO researchers, 134 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:09.320 you know, support this information without looking into or even researching or digging in 135 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:15.559 and talking to these key players. And that's really important because you have to 136 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:20.600 run these things by all of your conspiracy theories or wild ideas. You know, 137 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:24.639 it's fair to be able to let these people speak to them as they 138 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:31.000 often do when I interview them, because there's often real world answers, real 139 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:37.080 world considerations, and there are reasons why things are done the way they are. 140 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:43.639 What's interesting is a lot of people assume that many of these people are 141 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:50.399 hiding these major secrets behind interfacing with aliens or some other wild idea, when 142 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.840 in fact that's not the case. These people feel just like you do, 143 00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:58.879 or just like some of these people with French beliefs, and they're doing their 144 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:05.039 best as an insider to try to get answers and try to move this conversation 145 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:13.120 along in a serious way. And instead of bashing these people or you know, 146 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.200 assuming they're evil and terrible and doing all of these bad things, you 147 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:20.279 know, there's a lot more cooperation and there's a lot more well that can 148 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:24.039 happen. I think a lot of people assume, oh, they don't know, 149 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.279 you know, they haven't listened to this speaker or that speaker, or 150 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:31.120 they haven't listened to this contact he or that abductee, so you know, 151 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:35.879 they don't know what's going on. Well, they know more than you think, 152 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:41.799 and they it's just typically when you don't understand the system, you know, 153 00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:46.519 it's easy to assume why that system works the way it does, and 154 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:52.399 it's difficult to dive in there and try to understand the complexities. In fact, 155 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.759 it's similar to something that John Alexander said. He said that really this 156 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:05.639 topic and researching it is as serious and as difficult complicated as investigating, you 157 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:09.960 know, a cure for cancer. It's a very complicated issue. And if 158 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:15.360 you're going to do it the service that needs to be done, then there's 159 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:18.960 a lot of resources, a lot of different scientific disciplines that need to be 160 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:26.320 put into play in you know, taking a wide look at this topic. 161 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:30.399 So I think we're in a great chance to actually get that done. There 162 00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:33.679 are players in the field right now doing this, and I hope that SEU 163 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:41.120 can kind of become that SETI stay strong, stay scientific, and interact with 164 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:46.120 and take feedback from mainstream science to kind of break down those barriers and to 165 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:52.840 move this so maybe in five ten years. You know, when people bring 166 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:58.759 up UFOs, it's considered like it was with Project blue Book, or it 167 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.600 was to Dug Jay Allen Heinik, who's representative, of course, in this 168 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:11.600 television show Project Buboog, a serious scientific investigation, a serious scientific pursuit for 169 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:16.840 knowledge about an unknown mystery. So I think we have that opportunity and we're 170 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:20.919 moving towards that, and we're going to get into the news. And I 171 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:26.519 think the news is doing the same thing as pointing towards all of this as 172 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:33.440 well, So let's get into the news. I do want to mention a 173 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:39.639 couple of things when it comes to the news and my YouTube live show. 174 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:43.799 So I'm doing this live show called UFOs Seriously Live. You know, it's 175 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:48.120 essentially a live YouTube show where we're taking the topic seriously and I go over 176 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:54.159 all of the UFO news and I also answer questions for chats from chats, 177 00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:58.399 so there's some one on one interaction with people. If you're not watching it 178 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:03.519 on you YouTube, you must and I am very disappointed you for not doing 179 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:07.759 that. I'm just kidding. I know people are busy, got a lot 180 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.240 going on, but if you have the opportunity to even if you can't catch 181 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.080 it live, you know, you'll be able to hear me talking about a 182 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.840 lot of news, a lot of these issues. It's on YouTube, and 183 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:22.639 I'm moving a lot more stuff over to my YouTube channel, which is called 184 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:29.120 the Alejandro advantage. If you just google Alejandro Rojas on YouTube, you're gonna 185 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:32.200 find a lot of other guys. Most of them don't speak English, so 186 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.279 but if you look for the Aljandro Advantage, you'll find my page where I've 187 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.879 got lots of cool stuff, lots of videos going up, and I'm gonna 188 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:44.320 have more and more going up there. You can also find all of these 189 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.919 linked at the Alejandro Trojas dot com which is my blog, or on the 190 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:53.240 Patreon. So yeah, it would just be great for you guys to see 191 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.840 that because I'm talking about all of this sort of stuff and then answering questions 192 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:02.600 from the chat and it's a lot of fun on so check that out. 193 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:07.359 And in fact, I'm gonna videotape myself doing my intro, doing these interviews 194 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.480 with people for the podcast, and I'm also going to put those up there 195 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:17.200 soon as well. So I'm going to befall that up stuff up because i 196 00:17:17.240 --> 00:17:22.480 want to get information out to you all as quickly and as often as possible, 197 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:26.920 because we live in such important times when it comes to this just terribly 198 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:30.079 interesting field. I mean, you know, sometimes people will say, why 199 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.440 don't you believe in UFOs, And I'm like, what are you talking about? 200 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.480 You? Why do you think I do these podcasts and stuff. I 201 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:41.000 think there's a genuine mystery here. We have to look into it, just 202 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.039 because you know, a news story comes out and they say, look, 203 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:48.359 there was a UFO that just flew over the desert and some guy took a 204 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:52.400 picture, and it's got to be a UFO. But it's a bird or 205 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.119 it's a plane or something. Just because I don't believe everything's a UFO or 206 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.119 an extraterrestrial spacecraft does not mean I don't I don't believe in this field. 207 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.200 It's just the opposite. I want the good data, the good information, 208 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:11.000 so we can really determine something based off of anomalist information, not based off 209 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.359 of information that we can't confirm as anomalists or is likely not to be. 210 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:21.559 That's a waste of time. So anyway, in the news, a couple 211 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:25.000 of interesting things when it comes to Project blue Book. First of all, 212 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:29.000 you may not have heard this, but Project blue Book, the History Channel 213 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:33.960 series, has got renewed for a second season. So that's good news. 214 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:37.240 It means people are watching it. Some of you may be thinking, well, 215 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:41.440 that's not good news. In fact, John Alexander this Weekend expressed this 216 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:45.799 opinion because the show is not totally real. They're pushing out some stuff that's 217 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.720 not real, and we want people to know about the real doctor j Allen 218 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:55.599 Heinek. Well, I can see that point. However, the result of 219 00:18:55.720 --> 00:19:02.880 the show has been a great interest that has been kind of sparked in the 220 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:07.880 general population about doctor j Allen Heinek and what he's up to, and the 221 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.400 History Channel has put some great articles about him there, and we see these 222 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:18.160 UFO stories popping up all over mainstream media because of the show. So I 223 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.680 think it's a really good thing. Personally, I think it's important, and 224 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:26.000 sure it's difficult that sometimes it's entertainment, but that's the way it is. 225 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:30.480 You know, entertainment gets to the masses more than like a documentary does. 226 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:33.640 That's just the fact of things. So you know, I don't think it 227 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:41.079 hurts to attack this topic and to get information out in as many fronts as 228 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:45.119 possible. So that check that out. Also, you know, I've got 229 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:51.359 some reviews. I do go over my reviews on my UFO seriously live show 230 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:55.240 of Project Blue Book. And the reason that's important is not just to talk 231 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:59.319 about some sci fi show, but to talk about the real cases that are 232 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:04.200 referenced, because there's really some intelligent writing there that I don't think everybody catches 233 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:07.759 up on David O'Leary, the writer, and I'm sure the other writers and 234 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:15.720 people involved they're referencing actual mythologies if they're not referencing real cases. So there 235 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.799 is a lot to learn by breaking down those stories and going over some of 236 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:25.640 that stuff. Plus we get a review other cases that the show is not 237 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:30.079 directly referencing, but are similar to what the show is referencing. So it 238 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.960 is a learning kind of activity that we get to go through. So Project 239 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.720 blue Book is going to keep rolling. Also, there are those of you 240 00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:41.400 in the UK probably listeners right now, who have been wanting to watch this 241 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:45.160 and kind of upset because they haven't been able to. But the sci Fi 242 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:51.200 Channel has now picked up Project blue Book for the UK, so the UK 243 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:56.720 will be getting the show on a sci Fi channel sometime soon, so that's 244 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.480 good news. Otherwise, this is really great. There's this scientist called Avi 245 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:07.079 Lobe. He's actually a Harvard astronomer, and he has been talking aliens left 246 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:11.400 and right, and he's been making tons of news. All of these news 247 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.119 links. By the way, you'll find it Openminds dot tv on the front 248 00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:19.880 page, but you'll see there two links. I have a washingtonpostlink and a 249 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:26.400 Boston dot Com link. The Washington postlink I have there if you're a subscriber, 250 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:29.480 but if you're not a subscriber, you might not be able to read 251 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:33.680 the whole story. But Boston dot Com reprinted the whole story, and so 252 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.039 that's why I have both links there, so you can read this story. 253 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:44.279 And essentially, this is the guy, the scientist who suggested that this planetary 254 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:49.119 object Omaha omama, that's what you say. I think it's a really fun 255 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:55.400 name to say. But he suggested that this, you know, kind of 256 00:21:55.440 --> 00:22:00.599 long potato looking thing that came through the Solar system like a few weeks ago, 257 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.319 could have been extraterrestrial, and a lot of his colleagues have said, 258 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:08.480 that's ridiculous, how can you say that? But it has been a little 259 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:14.400 bit weird in that it's the first extra solar object to come through our solar 260 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.960 system. Typically, like a comment, will come in, come around the 261 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.440 Sun and then leave and maybe we won't see it for a very long time. 262 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:26.319 But it is in orbit around the Sun. This object came from lord 263 00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:30.039 knows where and flew in, went around the Sun, and it was caught 264 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:34.480 in the gravity of the Sun. Whipped around the sun, but when it 265 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:40.000 moved away from the Sun, it sped up, and the scientists were not 266 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:44.359 sure why. Now most scientists are saying are thinking it's probably just because of 267 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.839 the makeup of whatever this thing is. We don't understand it. But if 268 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.279 we were able to get a sample and kind of examine it, then we 269 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.960 would probably get why it did that. Abby Lob was saying, well, 270 00:22:56.039 --> 00:23:00.359 if we got a sample, we might have found out it's alien technology. 271 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:04.519 He says, it might be like this giant solar sale. You know that 272 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:10.319 essentially what that is is this big sale. It's on Star Trek actually, 273 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.480 where the sun pushes it. The heat from the sun or radiation from the 274 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:18.759 sun is able to push this sale just like a wind would. It's kind 275 00:23:18.759 --> 00:23:23.400 of like solar winds, and that's how it travels. So he thinks that 276 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:27.880 maybe that's what it was. Lots of his colleagues are getting really upset about 277 00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:33.119 this. Some of them think that he's just kind of challenging people by bringing 278 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:36.440 this up. But he's doing interviews and he's not backing down. He's saying 279 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:41.200 this is a possibility. In fact, he did a video also, and 280 00:23:41.240 --> 00:23:45.359 we've got a link on the page why the Universe may be full of alien 281 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:49.279 civilizations, where he talks about his belief that that may be the case. 282 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:55.519 Really cool stuff, So you've got to check those stories out, you know. 283 00:23:55.759 --> 00:24:00.160 Again, and we keep talking about this. This is a scientist kind 284 00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:06.160 of coming out and talking about aliens. It's kind of getting okay for scientists 285 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.880 to talk about aliens. So really cool stuff. Also, there's another good 286 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.799 story there about Tom DeLong, his drummer with Blink one eighty two, saying 287 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:17.880 that he and Tom used to like to get stone and go look for UFOs 288 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.440 in the desert. You know. He said sometimes they saw stuff, and 289 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:27.079 he was on Joe Rogan the drummer his name is Travis Barker, and he 290 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:33.079 said that, you know, he likes the UFO thing. He thinks that 291 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.599 there may be aliens visiting us. He just says, I don't know that 292 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.759 I would quit my job with Blink one eighty two, you know, leave 293 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:45.880 my everything and go do UFO stuff like Tom did. But he thinks it's 294 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.880 pretty cool. So that's an interesting story out there as well. That is 295 00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:53.400 a news ladies and gentlemen. You could see all of this at Openminds dot 296 00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:57.759 tv. But let's go ahead and talk to Rich Hoffman. We'll have him 297 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:22.119 on right after this short break. All right, I am happy to welcome 298 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:30.640 back to the show a lifetime eufologist Rich Hoffman. Hello there, Hey, 299 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:33.359 how you doing al good? It's good to be good to be on with 300 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.200 you again. Yeah, it's great to have you again. And uh, 301 00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:40.240 you know I called you a ufologist, which is what do you think of 302 00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:41.799 that term? What do you think? You know, how do we term 303 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:48.400 what what we do? And this appeld Well, it's a good question because 304 00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.240 I think it's it's actually almost changing a little bit, isn't it. Uh. 305 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.799 Even the term the term UFO has an interesting connotation to many that now 306 00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:00.200 that there's a there's them for this emphasis, that's like, you know, 307 00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:07.079 changing him to AAPS or UAPs or that type thing. And I still think 308 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.599 of myself as a ufologist, even though I mean, I've always adopted the 309 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:15.319 fact that I'm going to be dealing with not only flying objects, I'm going 310 00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:21.119 to be dealing with another kind of might be underwater objects or something of that 311 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:26.119 nature. But I think we need to look at maybe coming up with another 312 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:33.200 way of you know, calling ourselves because I think that too often it has 313 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.519 this again, it's a negative connotation with the word uf Are they term UFO 314 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:41.839 that everybody immediately attributes to being aliens And you know, a bunch of kooks 315 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.720 running around wearing some sort of like, you know, hats or something like 316 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:51.039 that, those aluminum hats or something like that. But I still think of 317 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:56.200 myself as uthologists. You know. So Lou Elizondo is going to be speaking 318 00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:03.799 at an event that you have been organizing for the Scientific Coalition for Ufology, 319 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.440 and I bring this up because the last person who brought this up to me 320 00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:10.119 with Lou, he was saying, you know, and this is something he 321 00:27:10.119 --> 00:27:12.920 wants to talk about. Is he's ran across a lot of people in the 322 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:18.000 last year being involved with all of this, and there are so many that 323 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:22.839 kind of are kind of armchair they're interested in the topic and everything, and 324 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:27.240 then there's those like you who you call yourself a UFO expert because you are, 325 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.640 you've been doing this for decades, and he's like, you know, 326 00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:34.920 how do It's almost like we need a new term because everybody claims to be 327 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:40.440 a ufologist, but there's only a handful of true experts, and that's kind 328 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:45.359 of a tough thing to deal with. Yeah, you're absolutely right, it 329 00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:48.880 is. And you know, it seems like more and more, you know, 330 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.279 anybody who, let's say, looks at a bunch of websites that can 331 00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:56.240 call themselves ufologists, I mean, you know, and we see a lot 332 00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:59.480 of people who are in social media that are doing the same thing. It's 333 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:02.039 like, you know, and and I guess, you know, I even 334 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:04.759 had that with some of the members of my local group. I mean, 335 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:11.599 they come from entertainment as opposed to coming to study this stuff. And and 336 00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.680 and so I try to focus it on study, you know, And there's 337 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.759 not a lot of people that want to spend that time and that that I 338 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.799 had that long dedicated interest in doing that kind of study. Uh. And 339 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:26.880 so it's it's very rare, actually, to be honest, to find a 340 00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:36.319 true quote unquote ufologist anymore. Right, they make themselves self proclaimed experts or 341 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:37.960 something like that because they wrote a book or you know, or something of 342 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:44.440 that nature. And that's that's unfortunate because I think that the phenomena needs that 343 00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:51.440 in depth study and we need specifically to focus on scientifically what that means. 344 00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:55.240 And I think that Lose done a great job of trying to connect us to 345 00:28:55.279 --> 00:29:00.680 this scientific and keeping us kind of focused, if you would that way. 346 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:04.759 And so I have to applaud the guy for trying to corral us and to 347 00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:10.559 get us to think rethink that type of stuff. And that's it's all good. 348 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.480 Yeah, I'm really tempted to talk to you about and we'll get into 349 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.440 this kind of this new world and how things I feel have been changing really 350 00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:22.119 rapidly in this field like we haven't seen before. But I kind of wanted 351 00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:29.319 to take a step back though and kind of frame your perspective and approach to 352 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:33.440 this phenomena. And one way would be, you know, you you were 353 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:38.119 with move On for decades and now you're with the Scientific Coalition for Ufology. 354 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:47.839 Why was it important to create this organization? What I began to see, 355 00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:52.079 you know, I got to understand that move On doesn't fills a niche that 356 00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:57.079 I think is still very, very valuable in the sense that if you look 357 00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:00.400 at new Fork, you know, in terms of what it does, it 358 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:06.119 just gets the citing data and there's nothing done in the way of investigation of 359 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:12.200 the case and helping us to reduce down the bogus stuff or the misidentified or 360 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:15.720 the crack putts or whatever you want to call it, but to get us 361 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.640 honed down a little bit closer to getting to what the UFO is about. 362 00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:25.480 So with the fact of having an investigation, you know, you're helping to 363 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:29.559 do that, and that's boots on the ground or that's people calling somebody and 364 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.680 helping to walk through that. So that's where it plays a very critical role. 365 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.599 So it's collecting that kind of data. Now here's the problem that I 366 00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:41.400 continue to see in the sense that you know, you may have in your 367 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:48.720 database seventy thousand cases, and that's wonderful to have seventy thousand cases, But 368 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:56.799 the question comes who's taking that data and going through it and really pulling out 369 00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:02.240 the nuggets of the wonderful information that you need want to garner from a scientific 370 00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:07.160 standpoint to be able to help us account for the maneuver ability of the object, 371 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:11.880 to see if there's any like some people report distortions around the objects or 372 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:15.920 something of that nature, and it and it doesn't you did. What I 373 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:19.799 saw was that we're doing a great job of collecting It's almost like what the 374 00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:23.960 Air Force did. But then who was actually doing the analysis, who was 375 00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:30.200 doing the study of that data, and and what I found was that it 376 00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:33.720 was very rarely being looked at. It's not like that other than you know, 377 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.160 the few of us, a few of us that were actually going and 378 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.720 culling and looking through it. And it's one thing to go out and find 379 00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:47.000 a case that looks really really good, but it and helping to re look 380 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:51.039 at it and through us more of a scientific lens, which is what the 381 00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:55.400 Science Review Board was attempting to do. But I mean again, it's it's 382 00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:57.200 like, we need to make use of the data, and people need to 383 00:31:57.240 --> 00:32:02.640 be able to look at the data. We didn't allow you know, scientists 384 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:07.880 or other organizations or whatever to necessarily come in and look at move On data. 385 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:10.960 They needed to be a part of move and there was like you know, 386 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.799 I mean, you know, and I was encouraging us to be able 387 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:20.359 to get it in such a way that you could do that, and then 388 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.079 for scientists to be able to take it and then do statistical analysis, to 389 00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:28.000 be able to do all these kinds of things, to be able to determine 390 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:30.839 more and more about the objects, and to help them craft white papers, 391 00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:34.920 to be able to get them out, the white papers out and actually get 392 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:38.759 stuff published in scientific journals, right, And so to me, that's where 393 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:44.200 I see that we needed to go even within move On. Well, you 394 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.680 know, I mean the other part of that is that that move On started 395 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:53.920 to move kind of like in directions that a lot of scientists reject outright. 396 00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:57.920 I mean it's like, you know, you want to talk about secret spaceship 397 00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.319 programs, or you want to talk about and have those at your conferences. 398 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:07.559 Well, those kind of things don't help the scientific community to stay in And 399 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:12.599 what I found out is that a lot of us just were starting to leave, 400 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.640 and we don't want to lose those scientists to have an interest. So 401 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:21.960 that kind of led to a little bit of the formation of kind of a 402 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:27.039 loose knit team that we did have while we were under move On, And 403 00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.880 we called ourselves as a team kind of like the SCU. It's just a 404 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:34.240 coalition of us getting together to be able to study. And of course, 405 00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:38.000 you know, we were studying the Aguadilla case, right, So we started 406 00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:42.680 as a team then to be able to now, like how can we apply 407 00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.640 that? And in that particular case, it was a situation where the witnesses 408 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:50.400 did not want to go through any kind of a UFO lens. They wanted 409 00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:52.960 to keep it outside of a UFO group and move on, and so we 410 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:58.240 had to now work it outside of you know, move on, and well 411 00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.440 that cost a lot of heartburn. But anyway, bottom line wise that eventually 412 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:06.319 a lot of us got a little bit disappointed with that and said, look, 413 00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:07.960 we need to come up with a new way of approaching this, and 414 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.280 we need to have more scientists engaged in it, and so let's go create 415 00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:17.679 our own group. And that's the start of SCU Scientific Coalition. We decided 416 00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:22.440 to go and become a five oh one C three and you become incorporated and 417 00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:30.519 really start to set ourselves up. And right now we're over forty basically scientists, 418 00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:35.039 you know, engineering types, of psychology types, a lot of people 419 00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:43.239 that are in different roles and more scientific in our approach, and we've got 420 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:47.840 ten PhDs, and so we're encouraging more and more people to get engaged like 421 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:53.679 that to help us to do that analysis, to do a bigger deep dive, 422 00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:58.400 to be able to create journal articles if you would, to write white 423 00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:02.199 papers, to do peer like you expect you would have in science. And 424 00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:06.239 so that's kind of like where we're going now. I mean we're trying to 425 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:13.840 get more structured, more disciplined in that approach. And what's cool is if 426 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:19.119 people go to the website explore SEU dot org, you've got already a lot 427 00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:22.639 of great stuff up there. What I find exciting is the papers link, 428 00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:29.239 where you have different white papers or papers that have been written throughout history, 429 00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:34.559 including like Special Report fourteen from Project Blue Book or the Condon Report. Some 430 00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:38.360 that are well known, but others like this estimate of Optical power output and 431 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:45.960 six Unexplained Cases by Jacques Valet. So these are science oriented papers that are 432 00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:50.280 out there. Now. There's few and far between to find these sort of 433 00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:54.639 things, but they have been done in history, yes, and so we're 434 00:35:54.639 --> 00:36:00.440 trying to collect all those that are relevant to the scientific approach that have been 435 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:06.440 published. At the same time, we're we're also now going through and reviewing. 436 00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:08.559 For example, let me let me give you this peer review process. 437 00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:12.920 When we did the Aukwarodia case, we were like saying, well, who 438 00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:15.280 can we go to, you know, to have them look at our work 439 00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:22.159 and of a scientific nature and really to help us out and identifying and figuring 440 00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:23.960 it all out. And did we do it right? And there is there 441 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:27.920 something we're missing or that type of thing, and so we were looking for 442 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:31.480 that that to happen. Well, as you might recall, we ended up 443 00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:37.920 going over to the do An organization over there cns UH and we went to 444 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:44.119 a Sigma I think it's Sigma two or something of that nature group that's under 445 00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:47.360 under their NASSA if you would that we're willing to at least look at the 446 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:52.840 paper and give us some feedback on it. And now yeah, in France 447 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:59.840 and I'm sorry, and so we're now making that more rigorous. And we 448 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:06.840 we've actually taken Kevin Randall did a paper on the Van Tell case, so 449 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:09.920 we've actually gone through and looked at his paper, We've given him some feedback. 450 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:15.400 He's actually rewriting it and making some changes to improve it. So we're 451 00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:19.480 supporting him in terms of that. And so we've gone through like a peer 452 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:23.360 review kind of like work there and now we're applying it to ourselves in the 453 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:30.800 context of even our Nimits report which we're coming out with. And so you 454 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:36.280 know, again it's the rigor of going through having people that are technical and 455 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.280 finding those other technical people to do that. And that's what we're trying to 456 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:44.880 mature, which is very exciting. And I mean, you know, so 457 00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:46.760 many people may argue, well too, The Stars is kind of doing a 458 00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:52.840 similar thing, and certainly they have a very prestigious group of directors and people 459 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:58.760 working for them. But at the same time there's a lot of controversy attached 460 00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:04.960 to it. There's kind of this entertainment arm where what is great about SCU 461 00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:10.559 is it's just kind of pure on its own. It interacts with the public 462 00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:16.840 and is this coalition of very serious minded people not distracted by some of these 463 00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:24.519 other things exactly. And so that's where we're we're that's where we're tending to 464 00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:28.840 go, and we want to be able to grow and mature that and again 465 00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:32.239 it's about getting others that are out there who you know might be you know, 466 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:36.960 remember the you know, Jacques Bela, the Hidden College, you know, 467 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:42.039 if you would, that's out there that they couldn't find an appropriate link 468 00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:45.159 and and and the other good thing about it is and that we have to 469 00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:51.119 realize is that since you know, I got started in this thing like fifty 470 00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:54.280 four years old years ago or something like that, you know, what's happened 471 00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:59.519 to technology, Well, technology is blossomed to the point where we've got better 472 00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:05.159 tools, more information. We're starting to see cases like the Limits or like 473 00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:08.519 these other kinds of like the aquad where you're starting to get military great equipment, 474 00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:14.960 you're getting thermal imaging kinds of cameras, and you're getting multisensory data. 475 00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:20.400 And you know, there's nothing that scientists love more than having data given to 476 00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:25.079 them, right, So now you've got, you know, a scientific community 477 00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:32.440 who can engage because there's some data for them to analyze. And so as 478 00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:37.119 opposed to high I saw a UFO last night. Let me show you, 479 00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:42.039 let me show you my blurred photo, you know, okay, And so 480 00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:46.239 what we're trying to encourage is the use of technology to get things like spectral 481 00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:51.239 images. We're looking to get thermal graphs. We're looking to get you know, 482 00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:55.639 obviously radar wherever we can, and there's other means of being a get 483 00:39:55.840 --> 00:40:00.360 other kinds of data to be able to go along with the case that we 484 00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:06.280 haven't been considering or analyzing in the past that will now help us to understand 485 00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:09.639 the objects better, you know. And so we're now looking to encourage that 486 00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:14.880 development as well. So m hm, and you know, those are great 487 00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:20.679 outlines there there was some I've heard some people say, you know, there 488 00:40:20.719 --> 00:40:25.119 can't be any science applied to the UFO field, which is kind of a 489 00:40:25.239 --> 00:40:30.519 bit odd to hear from some people. But certainly you can. What you 490 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:36.880 do need data, and certainly anecdotal data is a start, but it's not 491 00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:42.280 much. But when it comes to radar and photos, that's data you can 492 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:49.880 actually do something with correct and we as scientists can also engage in helping to 493 00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:53.760 get the tools out to the community, meaning that you know, why can't 494 00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:58.840 scientists help us develop those things like you know you might be aware of, 495 00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:02.079 but I mean those like those portable devices that would put some sort of multisensory 496 00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:07.400 data kind of capability out at a site where there's a hotspot. And so, 497 00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:09.800 you know, you had Center for UFO Studies, which is doing the 498 00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:15.760 UFO data thing. You had Mark D'Antonio working with you know, a couple 499 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:20.440 others and stuff like that to be able to help develop something. And so 500 00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:24.840 there's there's a good start moving that direction. And so we need to get 501 00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:30.159 that a little bit orchestrated. And why can't scientists be on that cutting agent 502 00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:34.760 in terms of helping to develop it and get it out to others, and 503 00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:37.679 that's what I want to talk about also, Eva, that is the conference 504 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.239 that I'm going to be coming up with. Yeah, definitely my last question 505 00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:45.119 though along these sides before we get into the conference, because this is exciting 506 00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:50.880 too, and there's a great segue from something recently I wrote about, Well, 507 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:53.519 we'll get into that. This is fun but still nimics the two thousand 508 00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:57.280 and four Nimmets incident. Of course, I've talked a lot about it on 509 00:41:57.320 --> 00:42:00.599 the show, interviewed various people. Pope was on last week. We talked 510 00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:04.519 about it, and of course Robert palt has been on and he's kind of 511 00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:08.159 he's a part of the SEU kind of leading this research. But when people 512 00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:12.679 say, well, you know, what can you add to it? You 513 00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:16.480 know that Alexando and his group have already looked at it. We have this 514 00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:22.320 leaked document from George Knapp that has been confirmed by Alexando that you know, 515 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:25.679 is this military report. What can be added? What would be your answer 516 00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:30.760 to them? I think where we're at is, you know, it's always 517 00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:36.239 good to have multiple sets of eyes on things, right, okay, meaning 518 00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:40.239 that we may come up with a different perspective than another group. And that's 519 00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:45.599 Okay, all right, there's no reason why what for something we do or 520 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:51.920 our approach can't be also considered and we might pick up on something in our 521 00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:55.199 study that might not have been looked at or that maybe they don't have. 522 00:42:55.840 --> 00:43:00.199 And let me also point out to you that do you see those those results 523 00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:06.920 of that analysis being given to the general public. No, I mean, 524 00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:12.840 have you seen any analysis of that that's been supplied to you or data made 525 00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:16.840 available to the general public. No, Because it's under a government thing. 526 00:43:17.000 --> 00:43:22.320 It's an a tip ring, right, and so what you had was an 527 00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:25.199 a tip project that was under the government, and that's still within the reign 528 00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:30.280 of the government, and stuff probably is still classified in many respects, and 529 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:34.679 what you get is only a little snippet of that information. For example, 530 00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:38.760 we don't have the radar data from that that case, but you have again, 531 00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:43.760 you know, witnesses who have described it in radar operators have talked about 532 00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:46.280 it. And so we've talked with the radar operators, We've talked with the 533 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:51.119 pilots, We've talked with you know, overall a lot of different people to 534 00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:53.400 try to get their take on what we saw, what they saw and how 535 00:43:53.400 --> 00:44:00.239 they described it and so in some respects, we're actually somewhat validating what Tta 536 00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:06.760 is saying, okay by our doing our work, but at the same time, 537 00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:10.480 you know, we're going to be publishing ours. Well, i'd like 538 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:14.400 to see theirs, right, you know, and I don't, and you 539 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:16.599 don't have it, and I don't have it, right, and so we 540 00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:22.920 take on we're on their word that they did this and here's their outcome of 541 00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:28.320 that case. But that's all I can do at that point, right, 542 00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:31.000 Yeah, exactly. I think you make a lot of great points. That's 543 00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:36.039 what's really exciting about this report, and I know the SEU report will be 544 00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:40.519 coming out soon, is that, Yeah, we haven't seen and I think 545 00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:45.559 that's something that we need to continue to talk about. You know, amongst 546 00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:49.760 the community is uh and Lou you know, says he can't share anymore. 547 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:54.920 Unfortunately, because he's bound you know, by his by this these things are 548 00:44:55.079 --> 00:45:00.280 are still not released to the public. So all we have is this one 549 00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:05.960 leaked kind of short report with a handful of witnesses. But we don't have 550 00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:09.159 that radar data. We don't have analysis, you know, how they analyze 551 00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:15.519 these videos, how they determined they were anomalous. We don't have a number 552 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:19.440 of witnesses that I know that you all have been talking to. So it's 553 00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:22.280 going to be really exciting to see how much of this report do you think 554 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:28.639 is new and fresh and something that people wouldn't have seen before? Well, 555 00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:31.719 I think that I think you know what's happened here is and you know as 556 00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:36.679 well as I do. It's a situation where we worked and we've had a 557 00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:40.119 lot of these conversations with these people, and we've got this kind of information 558 00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:45.360 that was given us. But like you know, let's say, let me 559 00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:50.920 put it through this way. Commander Slate who we talk with, who was 560 00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:54.000 was also one of the people on board one of the two aircraft, you 561 00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:58.400 know, we talked with him, We got a lot of detail that he 562 00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.960 gave us that you know, and he's not on Facebook and he's not out 563 00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:06.719 you know, being interviewed. So consequently, we're going to have information that 564 00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:12.480 we got from him that you know hasn't been published, okay, so or 565 00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:16.079 that has not that will be new. The other thing is that we've gone 566 00:46:16.119 --> 00:46:22.480 through exhaustive levels of detail of looking pixel by pixel at the video and we 567 00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:27.719 have data like you wouldn't believe on that and we've got you know, Larry 568 00:46:27.760 --> 00:46:31.679 Cage, that's who's a mathematician that's focused on it, who's published an extensive 569 00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:35.840 amount of effert we have. You know, let me let me put to 570 00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:39.719 you this way. Have you do you know what the kinetic energy level that 571 00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:44.280 would have What would have happened if you had an object to drop from eighty 572 00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:51.119 thousand feet stopping and above C level in point seven eight seconds? What would 573 00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:54.000 be the kinetic effect? What's the amount of G force that you're talking about? 574 00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:58.880 How do you look at that and apply that to the concept of you 575 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.079 know, acceleration and deceleration. How do you do that? And we're looking 576 00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:06.119 at it through the lens of a scientist and say, how can this possibly 577 00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:08.960 happen? Mm hmmm. So for example, you know Elon Musk is doing 578 00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:13.719 that, I guess with the space that's rockets, but of course they've got 579 00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:20.599 jet inted rocket engine gender they're expelling huge amounts of fuel to do this, 580 00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:23.199 and think, yeah, exactly, and you don't have that you know here 581 00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:27.199 right, So I mean, how do you how do you propel yourself to 582 00:47:27.360 --> 00:47:29.880 such a speed to the point where you can get to where you're going to 583 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:31.719 be in point seven eight seconds. You've got to look at it like, 584 00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:36.719 you know, I've got to accelerate and then I have to decelerate to stop, 585 00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:40.519 right, I mean, but this is just instantaneous in that level and 586 00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:45.000 how can that be? And then you know, what do we know about 587 00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:49.480 aircraft? What we they go through the sky or they go through the atmosphere, 588 00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:52.760 and you know they practically burn up, you know, the faster that 589 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:57.719 they go, right, So how do you deal with an object like that 590 00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:00.000 that's doing that? So again it's you're going to see like the perspective of 591 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:05.320 the scientists or a physicist if you would, it's looking at that angle to 592 00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:07.960 say, well, how can this possibly be? So we do that as 593 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:12.480 well. And so there's a lot of this kind of information that we're going 594 00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:15.320 to be able to to give you and you'll be able to you know, 595 00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:20.280 it'll be and it'll be published, so you'll be able to see it and 596 00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:22.760 you'll be able to touch it, and you you'll be able to where you 597 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:27.960 don't have that with the other stuff, right, right, And that's what's 598 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:30.280 exciting about this group. And even for instance, when you all put out 599 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:36.320 your Aguadilla report, I mean, you're welcoming scrutiny. And that's what science 600 00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:39.599 is about. It's not about hiding your information and being afraid of able to 601 00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:45.480 look at it and kind of put it through its paces. You want people 602 00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:51.159 to do that, so, uh, you know other organizations want you know, 603 00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:53.039 others like and now there is at least you ought to be able to 604 00:48:53.079 --> 00:49:00.239 look at this and scrutinize it. Yes, so that's really exciting. We've 605 00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:02.840 got to go to break, but I will mention when we come out of 606 00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:08.320 break, we're going to talk about this conference. And actually it's located near 607 00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:14.880 where you work, the Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, Alabama. And that's important 608 00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:20.960 because people may not realize this, but the last episode of Project Bluebook Operational 609 00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:24.440 paper Clip, they talked about Huntsville, but specifically, I don't think they 610 00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:30.480 even mentioned the name. Specifically, where those German scientists were working to begin 611 00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:37.440 the space program was at the Redstone Arsenal before NASA even existed. So we'll 612 00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:42.440 talk some about that riches experience working in the area when we come back from 613 00:49:42.480 --> 00:50:12.360 this short break, So stay tuned. Welcome back to Open Mind GUFO Radio. 614 00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:15.800 This is your host Alejandro Rojas and I am here with Rich Hoffman, 615 00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:20.480 and when we came when we're going into the break, I was talking about 616 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.719 the Redstone Arsenal. And even when I wrote about Project Bluebook the last episode, 617 00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.000 I don't even know if I mentioned the arsenal. But it's got a 618 00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:34.559 rich history. One can argue this is kind of where the birthplace of our 619 00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:39.079 US space program. Yes, it's a very exciting thing, and we're very 620 00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:45.360 excited here in Huntsville because you know, you we got the fiftieth anniversary of 621 00:50:45.400 --> 00:50:49.639 the Moon landing, and this is where the rockets were built. In fact, 622 00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:52.320 if you go over and I know that you know this because you went 623 00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:54.719 to Space Camp, we have space Camp here, and we've got we have 624 00:50:54.880 --> 00:51:00.599 the Davidson Center. It's gotten actually a full stage Saturn five and on its 625 00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:04.440 side and you can go and look at it. But then there's also a 626 00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:07.039 large Saturn five sitting out there, and then they have all the earlier models 627 00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:10.679 of rockets and stuff like that. And even on the arsenal, you can 628 00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:15.079 go over there and there's like, you know, the original Redstone test facility 629 00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:20.400 that Berner von Braun used for the Redstone rocket, right, it's still over 630 00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:22.199 there and people on the base and you know, people can go over and 631 00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:27.639 see that and that those test stands are still there, and you know, 632 00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:31.079 it's very exciting because the SLS is being built now and of course there's all 633 00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:35.880 different kinds of things related to that, and you know, so it's an 634 00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:38.719 exciting place with NASA there, but it's got that rich history like you talk 635 00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:45.639 about of that whole space program and now you have the Marshall Space Flight Center 636 00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:50.559 there and you've got in addition to that. I don't know if you know 637 00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:53.480 this, but like the FBI is leaving Quantico and coming here, So oh, 638 00:51:53.519 --> 00:52:00.079 I didn't know that. Yeah, the the entire Quantico location for the 639 00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:04.440 FBI is now here at Redstone. And and of course i'm the military. 640 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:08.440 Uh, the Missile Defense Agency is here. Everything relating to space and missiles 641 00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:13.079 you know, in the Army and stuff like this here and you know, 642 00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:17.519 Army Aviation is here. And I work for the Army Material Command, which 643 00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:22.880 is the entire logistics umbrella too. And by the way, it's the corollary 644 00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:29.320 to the Air Force Material Command that had underneath it Project Bluebook. And so 645 00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:32.719 so it's funny for me because I started off on Dayton Ohio and I in 646 00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:37.159 fact, I've had occasions to go out to the base and meet with some 647 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:39.960 people and stuff like that, and gable lecture on UFOs by the way out 648 00:52:39.960 --> 00:52:45.800 there. But so I'm kind of like I left there somehow I ended up 649 00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:51.199 in the Army Sister organization and uh, and so it's kind of like an 650 00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:54.360 interesting little thing for me that that I'm now back and I'm working for them 651 00:52:55.039 --> 00:52:59.320 and uh, you know, doing this whole thing. And and they pretty 652 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:01.880 much recept to me doing this as well, which is really cool. Oh 653 00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:07.360 that is cool and which I think says a lot. And we'll get into 654 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:12.559 that, but that's probably I mean, I would imagine because this is a 655 00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:16.920 space hub, why it's so exciting that you have been putting together this this 656 00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:24.679 short conference, and maybe tell us about the conference and what the mission is 657 00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:30.079 kind of what you're attempting to accomplish. Yeah, I know a lot of 658 00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:34.719 us have been talking about wanting to do a conference, and I was willing 659 00:53:34.760 --> 00:53:36.679 to say, like, you know, I'd love to be able to have 660 00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:40.679 I'd love to have one in the back door so to speak of this. 661 00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:47.239 You know, Redstone Arsenal and the Marshall Space Flight Center and to now see 662 00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:52.599 if we can get a collaboration between some of the scientists and engineers and that 663 00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:58.400 type of people that are over there. Included in that is University of Alabama 664 00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:01.599 Hunspital, which is largely uh at an engineering school, and you know, 665 00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:07.760 even encourage them to come and to get you know, we're surrounded by all 666 00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.800 of the corollary indus, the do O D businesses if you would, that 667 00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:15.760 support them, like Lockey, Martin Boeing, uh. You know, all 668 00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:21.480 these companies are around here, and it's just huge tech quarter for this kind 669 00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:24.480 of thing. And so consequently, you know, I'd love to be able 670 00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:30.599 to have this serious scientificness discussion between people that are on the base or in 671 00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:40.000 industry or in academia talking about the UFO subject uh uh seriously and saying and 672 00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:45.480 for us to come in an open Kimona, lay out why we think that 673 00:54:45.559 --> 00:54:49.159 it's important that we continue to do it. And you know, and then 674 00:54:50.039 --> 00:54:53.400 with the fact that you have this Pentagon program that was announced, you know, 675 00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:59.079 and that that announcement kind of gives it a little bit more credibility in 676 00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:01.039 a lot of people's eyes. The fact that here's a deed, you know, 677 00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:05.079 here we are at the Pentagon, you know, studying this thing is 678 00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:08.880 a threat identification program kind of like look and aerospace threat And so if you 679 00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:13.480 have that kind of a context that maybe you might be able to now get 680 00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:17.760 them to be willing to converse and collaborate. So I've constructed the conference if 681 00:55:17.800 --> 00:55:24.199 you would, to create a kind of like a very highly collaborative environment from 682 00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:29.840 over the time period that we're holding this And so that's where I'm going, 683 00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:36.639 and that's what I'm trying to achieve, and that's I'm looking for very scientific, 684 00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:40.920 we're minded people who are very serious minded people to attend h and I'm 685 00:55:42.039 --> 00:55:46.039 you know, I'm getting doctors that are presenting I'm getting I'm getting you know, 686 00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:51.239 of course we'll be talking about the Aguadia case, and not for the 687 00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:53.320 context that we even have answers on it, but maybe more like in the 688 00:55:53.360 --> 00:55:58.039 context that you know, here's a case that has that kind of like data 689 00:55:58.360 --> 00:56:01.280 that we're looking to get, you know. Uh. And then we're also 690 00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:07.400 going to be talking about the detection and characterization of anomalous aerial phenomena using satellite 691 00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:14.519 data imagery. So you have and Felipe aleis from the European space agencies coming 692 00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:17.239 over, and we're going to be looking at the physics of the Limets case 693 00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:21.920 and talking about that. We're going to be talking about the Agardilla case. 694 00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:25.599 But then we're also going in and talking about you know, you know, 695 00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:32.639 constraints on societies engaged in interstellar travel. And also we have a propulsion systems 696 00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:37.519 expert from the base, So we're going to be talking a lot of different 697 00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:42.239 things, and we're hopefully, you know, we're pulling in those kind of 698 00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:45.800 people. And I'm being told that we're getting a lot of interest in chatter 699 00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:51.960 on even on the Intel networks, uh, you know, intelligence people, 700 00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:59.400 and so they're very intrigued and excited about it. So I Lou is extremely 701 00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:01.960 excited about it. I mean just from the standpoint that we offered him to 702 00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:07.440 be the keynote for this conference, because I think that his his approach to 703 00:57:07.480 --> 00:57:10.079 this thing is right in sink. And he was a former military guy, 704 00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:14.920 right, I mean, he was a former army. At the same time, 705 00:57:15.079 --> 00:57:19.800 he has the Pentagon experience, and so he can help us to kind 706 00:57:19.800 --> 00:57:22.840 of get that where we want to go. And so I'm very excited about 707 00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:27.480 this. I think it's going to be a great conference. And it's you 708 00:57:27.519 --> 00:57:30.760 need to contrast this against a lot of the other conferences you know, you 709 00:57:30.800 --> 00:57:36.440 probably have even heard of, but I mean it's again, it's focuses solely 710 00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:43.280 science and getting the science typic community engaged and talking. And that's where we're 711 00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:46.920 trying to go. And one of the things I've found out very right off 712 00:57:46.920 --> 00:57:52.599 the bat is we need to get away from the term UFO because to the 713 00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:57.559 scientists and to the people on the base that they won't even begin to come 714 00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:02.480 And so we got to put this. We had to change this over to 715 00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:10.159 like you know, anomalous aerospace phenomena, you know, and aerospaces canotes actually 716 00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:14.000 believe it or not, It's not just you know, air and stuff like 717 00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:17.000 that. It's a that's a term that works in all three layers, you 718 00:58:17.039 --> 00:58:22.840 know, the oceans, the atmosphere, and in space. So we're calling 719 00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:30.199 it AAP anomalous aerospace phenomena and trying to do what we can do pretty much 720 00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:35.079 avoid as much as we can the term UFO because we're trying to get them 721 00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:38.880 to look at this in a different context other than you know what the typical 722 00:58:39.039 --> 00:58:45.880 UFO thing brings up. Which is funny because it wasn't like on the program 723 00:58:45.159 --> 00:58:49.880 Project blue Book, it wasn't Heinech a scientist who came up with UFO, 724 00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:53.639 But it was you know, Rupel, who was in charge of Project blue 725 00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:57.599 Book, who came up with that. So it was an air Force term. 726 00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:01.840 But it's gotten correct, I suppose, is the way you'd put it. 727 00:59:02.119 --> 00:59:07.079 And people's perceptions have changed. And so it's interesting that, you know, 728 00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:13.559 we have this world where we have these scientists who are now like this 729 00:59:13.679 --> 00:59:20.679 Harvard scientist in the news low and we've got others that have been talking about, 730 00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:25.400 you know, the importance of paying more attention to sort of these anomalous 731 00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:34.559 events, and so and Lou in a way has kind of shoehorned the UFO 732 00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:39.239 issue into some intelligence work. He did that while he was in his career, 733 00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:45.199 along with others whose names we don't even know because he cannot share who 734 00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:50.800 he worked with in the intelligence world on these sorts of things. But now, 735 00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:53.599 that's what's great about what you are are doing, because it's filling that 736 00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:59.280 kind of gap that even scientists are saying that we need filled, which is 737 00:59:59.320 --> 01:00:06.039 to take a serious look at these incidents that could be related to and this 738 01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:09.719 is a scientist saying this that could be you know, the result of intelligent 739 01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:17.559 extraterrestrial intelligences. Yes, yeah, I mean it's wide open in terms of 740 01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:22.280 trying to figure out where these things you know, could emanate from come from, 741 01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:29.159 or even what they are. You know, and we haven't eliminated these 742 01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:31.639 big hypotheses. In other words, are they all coming from outer space? 743 01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:37.800 No, you know, the data doesn't suggest that they have. They always 744 01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:42.199 been here, you know, I always there's always been here a hypothesis if 745 01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:46.039 you would, you know, and you can argue that you could talk about 746 01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:50.960 interdimensional like ballet, you know, that they pop in and pop out of 747 01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:54.199 space and time or something of that nature. And you can have cases that 748 01:00:54.280 --> 01:01:00.320 substantiate that. You can have, you know, instances where theyd of like 749 01:01:00.679 --> 01:01:04.519 you know, completely just blank out in front of a witness or something like 750 01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:07.719 that and pop in out of nowhere. Well, you've got that, and 751 01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:09.599 then at the same time you've got you know, like if you want to 752 01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:14.119 go with the bent Water's case where you know, you know, Peniston goes 753 01:01:14.199 --> 01:01:17.960 up and basically touches one and you know he's actually touching it and that type 754 01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:22.880 thing, and then gets these things, these ones and zeros binary code, 755 01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:28.440 I guess, and it translates into something like it's a time machine from our 756 01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.880 future or something of that nature. So we don't, you know, we 757 01:01:30.920 --> 01:01:35.639 don't do a good job of eliminating all the various hypotheses, but we do 758 01:01:35.960 --> 01:01:38.320 need to do. And I think that this is where like you know, 759 01:01:38.800 --> 01:01:44.440 lose doing and they're doing. The focus was a very very good focus. 760 01:01:45.079 --> 01:01:50.360 What do these things do? They seem to be able to, like if 761 01:01:50.360 --> 01:01:55.280 you would cloak themselves. They have stealthy kind of capabilities. They they're not 762 01:01:55.400 --> 01:02:01.639 bothered by working in water. They don't change their shape at all. There's 763 01:02:01.719 --> 01:02:06.719 there's the same shaped object will go in water, be out in space, 764 01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:10.519 or be in the atmosphere. Yet we build things with you know, that 765 01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:14.800 have to have a different kind of look and feel to them, right so 766 01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:19.679 in order to be able to maneuver through those different media, and yet these 767 01:02:19.719 --> 01:02:22.960 things don't do that. Well, wouldn't that be great to know? Or 768 01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:27.280 what about you know? Obviously positive lift the fact that they can harver and 769 01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:30.159 they can do what they can do. How do I begin to have something 770 01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:37.199 that can be maneuvered from eighty thousand feet to zero point seven eight seconds ending 771 01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:39.280 up in stopping just above the water, you know what I mean, how 772 01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:45.639 do I do that? And so we need to be able to understand these 773 01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:52.039 things, categorize and look and sort those kind of details out and see what, 774 01:02:52.199 --> 01:02:54.559 if anything we can figure out in terms of how that works. And 775 01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:58.559 that's what science does, you know, it looks at it that way. 776 01:02:59.639 --> 01:03:05.920 And what's great about this is at least it's showing lou who's got certainly his 777 01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:13.760 connections into the real serious, mainstream and high level echelons of the government of 778 01:03:14.119 --> 01:03:19.400 intelligence, of d D and also now more and more science that and the 779 01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:25.199 scientists that there are serious science minded people who have been looking into this for 780 01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:30.400 a very long time who you can come in and listen to it and talk 781 01:03:30.519 --> 01:03:36.079 to, you know, at your level if you're a scientist and inside of 782 01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:42.039 your own comfort zone. And I think that's really important to kind of introducing, 783 01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:45.679 you know, the idea that it's okay to look into this stuff and 784 01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:51.880 there are avenues of research that are very interesting that can be looked into. 785 01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:58.239 Yes, absolutely, And so the more we can put that lens on and 786 01:03:58.639 --> 01:04:01.760 figure out what's going on and seeing if we can come up with those answers 787 01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:06.199 or eliminate some of these things you know that we believe. For example, 788 01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:12.079 you know, you had Stephen Hawking who was interested in the Hawking radiation. 789 01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:17.119 Well, the question was in his mind was does the UFO when it pops 790 01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:23.320 in or pops out? Do you see any indications of Hawking radiation or an 791 01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:27.239 indication that there's a wormhole that's being created? Well, do you know what 792 01:04:27.239 --> 01:04:29.880 one looks like? Do you know? And what do we need to do 793 01:04:30.000 --> 01:04:32.960 to be able to figure out because the witness the more we educate the witnesses 794 01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:38.360 or even getting that data or having the right kind of information will help us 795 01:04:38.360 --> 01:04:43.000 to do it. And does that mean that we need to be enlisting cameras 796 01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:46.320 that go beyond the visible because we're tired of not getting anything, you know, 797 01:04:46.360 --> 01:04:50.199 that's meaningful from the visible range of the spectrum. How about we go 798 01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:54.039 into the old or violin how about if we go into the gate you know, 799 01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:58.159 and these other ranges like infrared, near infrared, long you know, 800 01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:01.360 far infrared. How about if we go into you know, and the spectrum 801 01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:03.719 is pretty large. So I think that if we go and we look and 802 01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:08.199 develop the means to be able to detect those kinds of things like gamma ray 803 01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:12.360 radiation, or that we might be able to learn more about their operation and 804 01:05:12.360 --> 01:05:15.559 their capability. Right, And so so that's what we're trying to say that 805 01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:19.639 we need to really really focus on. And again, if we get scientists 806 01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:24.360 engaged in that, which is very you know, encouraging to me, then 807 01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:28.880 we might be able to then be able to collaborate, come up with ideas, 808 01:05:29.000 --> 01:05:35.039 share, and really go at this thing in a way much more dedicated 809 01:05:35.079 --> 01:05:39.800 approach that's going to yield some results. Because hey, look I didn't, 810 01:05:39.800 --> 01:05:42.719 I haven't. I'm not in this fifty four years because I don't want to 811 01:05:42.760 --> 01:05:46.880 get answers. I want to get answers, you know. And we can 812 01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:53.960 we can talk on social media or do all this other stuff and not get 813 01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:58.400 anywhere for any length of time and just create a wonderful mythology out there. 814 01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:00.599 But I'm not interested in that, and I want to be able to get 815 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:05.519 past the mythology stuff and instead focus on what is it that we know about 816 01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:11.440 or can do do is from these things that are being seen, Right, 817 01:06:12.639 --> 01:06:17.199 And that's why I've stated in it for fifty four years to get answers. 818 01:06:17.679 --> 01:06:25.159 I think this is all just really extremely exciting. Of course, what lou 819 01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:29.119 Aleisander's working on is very exciting. What he shared this far is very exciting. 820 01:06:29.159 --> 01:06:34.000 And what you are doing, I think that it's the perfect thing to 821 01:06:34.039 --> 01:06:39.480 be going happening at this time. I mean, it's just a really exciting 822 01:06:39.639 --> 01:06:44.400 time for this topic. I mean, would you agree with that? I 823 01:06:44.440 --> 01:06:46.480 think it is. I think it's a very exciting time. And I think 824 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:51.880 that if we can keep the interest level up and we can help to develop 825 01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:58.079 these kind of like you know, organizations like you know, SCU or whatever 826 01:06:58.199 --> 01:07:01.000 or TCSA or whatever, you know, that that can keep the focus on 827 01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:04.840 it and to build on it, you know, and to get actually some 828 01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:11.480 support in terms of doing this, you know, Invisible College, if you 829 01:07:11.519 --> 01:07:15.679 would, that we might be able to actually now get somewhere form maybe even 830 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.960 our own association and go from there or something like that. But but I 831 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:23.800 think that, you know, it's it's it's one of these gradual approaches and 832 01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:27.000 we're fighting the big you know, the big fight, if you would, 833 01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:31.840 in terms of getting getting two scientists who have basically shut the door on this 834 01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:35.639 subject, you know, and said well, we're not going to even go 835 01:07:35.719 --> 01:07:41.000 there. You know and and and I mean, I'll be honest with you. 836 01:07:41.159 --> 01:07:43.039 There was one time where I went up to say, well, I 837 01:07:43.079 --> 01:07:45.320 was like wanting to study about how to write a research paper. And on 838 01:07:45.360 --> 01:07:50.199 the front page of that website that I went to, it said, as 839 01:07:50.239 --> 01:07:55.800 an example, you don't want to write about UFOs. Oh wow, that's 840 01:07:55.880 --> 01:07:59.039 hilarious. And this is the Yeah, this is like, you know, 841 01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:04.079 so don't even broach the subject of UFOs on your research. And this was 842 01:08:04.119 --> 01:08:08.440 on the front page of this like how to write a research paper. Right, 843 01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:11.960 So I mean I'm going like, wow, well, we've got some 844 01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:15.480 work to do, buddy, We've got we have to we have got some 845 01:08:15.639 --> 01:08:18.760 serious work to do to change this around. And you know. And so 846 01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:23.840 that's where we're trying to go. And it's one step at a time, 847 01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:30.479 and it's you know, getting science moved back up into doing this. And 848 01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:33.760 the more we can have this level of discussion when we have data where we 849 01:08:33.800 --> 01:08:40.119 can talk about it and we can we can share data or we can that's 850 01:08:40.159 --> 01:08:43.640 gonna be better. That will bring help to bring it on. And the 851 01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:47.159 other thing is to create a means for them to have a safe conversation. 852 01:08:47.720 --> 01:08:50.880 Because part of what I was trying to do here was you know, I 853 01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:55.760 want to keep media out media per se, like you know, let's don't 854 01:08:55.760 --> 01:09:00.119 have the TV stations coming in and uh, you know and airing this whole 855 01:09:00.159 --> 01:09:05.359 thing all because Lo's there. And Lou was emphatic about not marketing him, 856 01:09:05.800 --> 01:09:10.720 and I applaud him for that because he said, I didn't want I don't 857 01:09:10.720 --> 01:09:15.600 want to be the thing that detracts from your scientific work. You get what 858 01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:19.199 you know, you know, and that's a hell of a lot of integrity, 859 01:09:19.319 --> 01:09:24.279 and I appreciate that on his from his standpoint, he said, I 860 01:09:24.279 --> 01:09:27.119 don't want to become the detractor where all the news media wants to come in 861 01:09:27.159 --> 01:09:30.399 and interview me. And I said, I agree, and in fact, 862 01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:31.560 I don't, you know, I mean, my hope was that we would 863 01:09:31.600 --> 01:09:35.640 avoid all that kind of stuff, primarily just to be able to get a 864 01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:42.159 conversation where people from the base could talk about their military things in his safe 865 01:09:42.279 --> 01:09:45.399 environment, knowing that it's not going to now be on the front page news. 866 01:09:45.560 --> 01:09:48.520 You get what I'm saying, right right so exactly, And I do 867 01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:53.760 want to get to because we're about out of time here, that it's not 868 01:09:53.800 --> 01:10:00.800 necessarily completely open to the public. But you're looking for essentially like we've science 869 01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:05.720 might professionals who are in this sort of arena. Yeah, and so we 870 01:10:05.800 --> 01:10:09.880 are. We're trying to like basically go through and get a you know, 871 01:10:10.279 --> 01:10:15.439 qualifying that that as we go through the attendees and stuff like that. So 872 01:10:15.560 --> 01:10:20.239 we've got on our explore scu dot org website, we've got if you do 873 01:10:20.279 --> 01:10:26.600 it, if you do the www dot explore scu dot org and then you 874 01:10:26.680 --> 01:10:30.479 put a forward slash, then you put a a PC. We have a 875 01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:33.239 place where you can go up and you can basically give us some information about 876 01:10:33.319 --> 01:10:38.600 you and and then we could then make it, you know, help you 877 01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:42.279 to then get say you're connected or you're not. We're just not looking to 878 01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:45.520 get like you know, you know, Hi, I learned about UFOs yesterday 879 01:10:46.199 --> 01:10:50.840 and I'm I'm interested in the subject. Because I'll be honest with you, 880 01:10:50.920 --> 01:10:56.239 this conference is going to be way over your the general person's head, per 881 01:10:56.279 --> 01:11:00.119 se. It's gonna be more science. It's not about you know, that's 882 01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:01.600 all all UFO. Last that let me tell you the story, right, 883 01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:05.439 So that's what that's not what we're doing. And the other thing is, 884 01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:10.439 I mean I've made this thing at such a rate. I don't know if 885 01:11:10.479 --> 01:11:15.359 you saw my rate right now. It's one hundred and fifty dollars to attend 886 01:11:15.399 --> 01:11:18.600 the event, and that's good through the fifteenth of February, and then I'm 887 01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:23.079 going to raise it to one seventy five. But guess what, I've got 888 01:11:23.119 --> 01:11:28.720 a rate that makes it affordable because that includes four meals, two lunches, 889 01:11:28.760 --> 01:11:31.640 and two dinners. Wow. So I mean, where can you go to 890 01:11:31.680 --> 01:11:36.880 a conference this day for that kind of price with with people like this coming 891 01:11:36.920 --> 01:11:42.000 in and doing it. And so my big concern was, my god, 892 01:11:42.079 --> 01:11:47.039 the half the base was closed because of the government shutdown. NASA was closed, 893 01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:51.079 also, the FBI was closed, and so there were a lot of 894 01:11:51.079 --> 01:11:55.760 those people that are and the contractors took a big hit, you know, 895 01:11:55.840 --> 01:11:59.640 and so they're hurting financially, and then there's the threat coming up on the 896 01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:02.640 fifteen maybe another one, you know, right, so there they're being a 897 01:12:02.680 --> 01:12:05.680 little bit hesitant about signing up and saying that they even want to spend that 898 01:12:05.760 --> 01:12:12.279 little bit of money. So anyway, that's kind of like where we we 899 01:12:12.279 --> 01:12:15.000 We set this thing up, and I think it's going to be fabulous, 900 01:12:15.359 --> 01:12:19.920 I really do. And I'm looking forward to having any serious minded individuals that 901 01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:24.720 have, you know, an interest in science and stuff like that, to 902 01:12:24.800 --> 01:12:28.239 really be the ones that come. Well. Great, Well, thank you 903 01:12:28.319 --> 01:12:31.760 so much for coming back on the show. I'm really excited about everything SEU 904 01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:36.079 is doing. Of course, I've been involved with helping to develop SEU at 905 01:12:36.079 --> 01:12:44.119 the beginning and everything, and I am just so extremely excited about the organization, 906 01:12:44.439 --> 01:12:48.119 all of you involved with it and where it's headed. And it's great. 907 01:12:48.479 --> 01:12:54.199 Keep up the great work. Thank you. I appreciate everything you do 908 01:12:54.359 --> 01:12:58.359 for us, and I'm really I'm very sincere when I say that. Thank 909 01:12:58.399 --> 01:13:00.760 you so much to Rich for joining a show that was so much fun. 910 01:13:01.239 --> 01:13:06.279 Be sure to check out explore s CU dot org for more information about what 911 01:13:06.439 --> 01:13:11.560 the SEU is up to, and if you aren't interested in that conference, 912 01:13:11.680 --> 01:13:15.680 check that out. That should be a lot of fun. It's gonna be 913 01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:18.520 very technical, so you know, you'll only want to go if you're into 914 01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:21.680 that sort of thing. But I think the networking that will happen there is 915 01:13:21.720 --> 01:13:27.840 gonna be very very important. But thank you very much. So when it 916 01:13:27.880 --> 01:13:30.800 comes to the news that we talked about earlier in the show, be sure 917 01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:35.319 to find all of that at openminds dot tv. Some of it won't be 918 01:13:35.439 --> 01:13:40.720 up till later this week. I update the news every Thursday before my UFO 919 01:13:40.840 --> 01:13:45.319 Live show on YouTube, and they have that on Thursday evenings at six pm 920 01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:50.279 Arizona time, which is currently aligned with Mountain We don't change our time zone, 921 01:13:50.319 --> 01:13:55.359 so that makes it a little funky, but time zones are just that 922 01:13:55.439 --> 01:14:00.239 way, aren't they. But you can always also follow my social media because 923 01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:06.960 I'm updating that every day, and you can find open MINDGUFO news on the 924 01:14:08.079 --> 01:14:13.279 forum also on Facebook and follow that as well, and all of that information 925 01:14:13.359 --> 01:14:18.760 you find an open mindset tv or at Alejandro Trojat dot com. The UFO 926 01:14:19.000 --> 01:14:25.119 Congress has also got a blog where lots of UFO news is going up there 927 01:14:25.159 --> 01:14:30.439 as well Ufocongress dot com. Be sure to get on the email list at 928 01:14:30.520 --> 01:14:35.920 Ufocongress dot com because we're also setting updates now. These updates include UFO news, 929 01:14:36.119 --> 01:14:43.159 but they also include really cool UFO and alien products at the store, 930 01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:47.520 and they include updates on the conference itself, and that's going to be a 931 01:14:47.720 --> 01:14:51.840 very important conference. Of course, this is one that everybody goes to, 932 01:14:53.439 --> 01:14:57.199 and everybody's going to want to come to this next one, not just because 933 01:14:57.239 --> 01:15:00.520 we've relocated to downtown Phoenix, which is going to be be a lot of 934 01:15:00.560 --> 01:15:04.439 fun, but also because the speakers are great. We're going to be listening 935 01:15:04.479 --> 01:15:09.479 those speakers really soon, so you're gonna want to be on that email list. 936 01:15:09.520 --> 01:15:14.199 Remember, go to ufocongress dot com to get on that email list. 937 01:15:14.680 --> 01:15:18.880 Otherwise we're gonna have another great show next week. Thank you all so much 938 01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:23.640 for being here. Thank you to Caleb Hanks for the opening and close music. 939 01:15:24.199 --> 01:15:28.760 Thank you to Martin for the moral support. I know he was thinking 940 01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:32.840 of us even if he couldn't be here. Thank you to Systematics for the 941 01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:38.600 bumper music, and of course, as usual, thank you the listeners for 942 01:15:38.640 --> 01:15:42.960 being here. Until next time, Audio smooth Chuck as