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How I like to put it is
that the low handicap, the higher skilled

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golfer, I want him to think
and then execute, and the higher handicap

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I wanted to execute and then think. So that's more or less the language

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that I emphasize on when I'm designing
a more challenging golf course. And if

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you go all the way to Muni's, usually you have a very strict piece

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of land. That's where you have
your freeway golf. Usually you know the

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whole number one, whole number two, whole number three, whole number four,

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five, six, seven eight,
because of the area that you're usually

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confronted with, So you're working on
a hundred acres maybe, so you've got

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to fit everything perfectly. A lot
of golf courses from the fifties and the

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sixties are that way as well.
So that's something I mean in Muni you

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have to be very creative, which
is pretty cool as well, because you

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have this piece of land, you
have all these restrictions and what are you

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going to do with him? Hi? This is Tom Tom from Delphi,

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India. Anna enjoy playing golf multiple
courses around the Delphi era. This is

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gold number eight eight seven Butterfly Golf
maybe the future of sustainable golf course design.

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With creator Aggie Piece, this is
Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips

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and insights from great golf mines to
help you lower your score and raise your

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golf IQ. Here's your host,
Fred Green. Welcome to the Golf Smarter

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podcast. Aggie. Thank you very
much, Fred, pleasure to be here.

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It's great to have you on.
I love talking to golf course architects.

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I just as a as a recreational
golfer, as someone who does not

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play competitively, I like to know
what's happening on a golf course, and

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I love hearing what golf course architects
have to say because they're not generally they're

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not the greatest golfers all the time, and so they kind of designed for

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us, for the amateurs. Yes, I'm glad you understand that bit,

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and yes some yes, you're completely
right. And not a lot of people

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know that some of the greatest architects
weren't the best players. I mean,

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you can start right off with Alistair
mackenzie. He was just a great you

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know, just a great student of
the game and h and of golf architecture

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of course, amazing and you know
you have I know that you have a

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master's in golf course architecture. I've
been reading on your bio. What does

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that entail? I'm fascinated by that. To go to school to learn golf

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course architecture. Is that history?
Is that gnomic? What elements are you

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are you studying? That's a very
good question and I love that because yes,

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I was surprised as well a few
years ago when I learned that this,

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you know, a master's degree specifically
in golf course architecture exists or existed,

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and obviously it had to be in
the cradle of golf Scotland. Yeah,

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Edinburgh University. And this was in
two thousand and one, two thousand

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and two when I started, you
know, to look for what was next

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for me. I'm an architect by
trade. I'm a vertical licensed architect by

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trade. And uh but I was
I was in construction. My first six

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years seven years were dealing with construction, project management, etc. So that

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that was an advantage for me because
I know the bones, the backbones and

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all the you know, the everything
that goes underneath the skin of of golf.

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So going back to your question,
is I'm looking at you know,

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two thousand and one looking for either
diploma courses, master's degree, what else

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is out there? Because I knew
that. I mean, at that time,

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anyway, celebrity golf designers were at
its peak, you know, eighties,

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all nineties and the beginning of two
thousand. Celebrity golf designers were at

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their peak. So it was like, Hey, I'm not gonna win a

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main journeytime soon. I'm not going
to hit a green jacket unless I go

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buy it in uh somewhere. I'm
not gonna get an ice green jacket like

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that, you know, So one
of them I need to go study.

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I need to go follow the footsteps
of the the you know, the the

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students of the game. So I
found this master's degree. I was like,

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Holly Moley, I have to do
this. I applied at the end

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that we didn't know, but I
think there was like one hundred and ten

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applicants. Eleven of us from different
parts of the world got in. It

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was part of the EIGCA European Institute
of Golf Course Architects, which is the

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equivalent of the American Society of Golf
Course Architects, and it was just an

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amazing experience I was very lucky to
get in. I sold by everything,

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my toaster, everything, and I'm
like, let's go to that sunny Scottish

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weather, a great accent that I'm
going to understand and and and just have

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fun doing my master's degree. So
that's what I did. Where did you

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grow up? I grew up in
Tijuana. I grew up in Tijuana.

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And by your expression, yes,
regular people grow up in Tijuana to Fred,

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so, no, I understand that. No, I have no problem

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with Tijuana. I just don't know
that. I don't know how much golf

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exists in Tijuana. I know that
you are an adventurer and uh and you've

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been to the Bajan You've been to
a lot of places in the world.

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So I admire that about you,
which is great. That adventure side.

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I love it as well. So
my point is that, yes, you

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know, being a growing up in
Tijuana, I did not grow up as

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a as a golfer, but I
did grow up in the Tijuana Country Club.

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And you will be surprised Fred,
what I'm going to tell you that

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Tijuana Country Club when it first started
in the nineteen thirties, early late twenties,

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early thirties of last century. It
was the biggest uh It was called

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aguacaient Golf Club and it had the
biggest purse of the PGA tourback I mean

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Saracen. It was playing here,
Bobby Jones was playing here, Ben Hogan

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played here, and it was the
biggest, the largest purse. At that

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time. Vegas did not exist.
There was there was the Prohibition era.

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So we had in Tijuana, the
casinos, the country Club, the Caesar

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Salad. That was the year they
the era where Caesar salad was invented in

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Tijuana. So we were living at
large in tj and then and then the

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country club became or the Aguaca eventually
became the country Club that we now know

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as the Tijuana Country Club. So
there is a very good history. It's

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a Billy Bell design and if you
go back, I mean that's that's part

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of the of our Cali Baja Cali
Golden Age of golf architecture from San Francisco

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down to Tijuana. That's part of
that generation of golf courses. So it's

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it's very rich in history. You'll
be surprised, that's what I was going

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to tell you. Oh, I
am shocked, and but wait a minute,

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I got to back up here.
Caesar salad was invented in Tijuana.

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Yes, come on, really,
salad was invented in Tijuana. That's hilarities

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in the early thirties at the restaurants
called was called Caesar's or Caesar School was

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the place where it was invented years
ago, where you had all these celebrities

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coming down to have fun in Tijuana
because they couldn't do it elsewhere in California

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or the States. So, uh
so Tijuana from this side, I mean

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you could Cuba on the other side
was also living living at large as well

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on the other side before yeah,
we know happened. Happened, uh in

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the fifties. But growing up,
you know, in Probition era, Tijuana

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was a fantastic point of entertainment and
leisure. And I'll stop there. Of

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of of a lot of celebrities,
you'll stop at the leisure party. I'll

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tell you my favorite part of Tijuana
and one of the most memorable for me

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in the times that i've been there. Highlight, Oh highlight, that highlight

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is how's that building? How's the
other of that building? Gorgeous? Okay,

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So that we had that casino to
match the High Ali, Caesar's Hotel,

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the casino that matched. I mean, we had the racetrack where um,

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uh there's a Disney movie. I
think that that that space here that

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uh it's raced one of the racist
is in Tijuana. So we we we

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have that rich history in golf,
which unfortunately we do not embrace. Uh

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and me growing up, going back
to your question, my brother and I

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growing up in Tijuana at the country
club. We played every sport except for

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golf. And but it was right
there and uh, and that's how I

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grew up. I played every sport. I'm I'm a I'm a fan,

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and I grew up in sports.
My family, Uh, you know comes

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from pe teaching and uh. Yeah, so so we grew up in in

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sports all of our life. From
my grandfather. This is another funny story,

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h or or a cool story for
me. My my great uncle was

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the the stuntman for the Black and
White Uh wise Wheeler's Tarzan. Uh.

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He was the first met Can to
swim across the English Channel in nineteen fifty

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three, swimming. Of course,
he did it twice because the first time

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his friends didn't believe him. He
thought it was a fluke. They gave

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him a hard time that I has
a fluke, and so he did it

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twice and then he became a you
know, a type of celebrity and uh

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and uh and so we come from
that beside side of of sports culture in

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our family. When I grow up, I'm you know, I'm curious,

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I'm I'm inventive. I don't know, I'm a destroyer at the house,

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you know, baking up stuff and
and uh so I knew that I wanted

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to become an architect since I was
eleven years old in fifth grade elementary.

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More or less, I knew without
hesitation that I wanted to become an architect.

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And and when I when I studied
architecture, uh now, it was

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like, how do I mix sports
with architects? That was my first thought.

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I mean, I need to mix
my my two passions sports in architecture.

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Okay, maybe I'll do stadiums.
I'm a dieheart Charger fan living in

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in in Tijuana where Padres and Chargers
don't look at me that way. That's

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just that's I'm just saying, I'm
sorry they left a lottery. Chargers left.

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Nowers left, but I'm still I'm
still a Charger fan, even though

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I mean, they're only an hour
and a half away from you, right,

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So so anyway, we we.
That's when I started to think,

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Okay, maybe I can do stadiums. Maybe I can do you know whatever,

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country clubs, parks. I had
no idea until I graduated. And

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I played a little when I was
when I was younger, just out in

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the country club. But I wanted
contact sports. I wanted to get dirty.

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I played football all my life,
I played tennis, I played everything,

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basketball, blah blah. So I
uh, when I graduated, I

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couldn't play all these sports anymore because
there's no leagues. They just you start

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playing. And so I decided to
get back to golf. I said,

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now it's the time for golf.
Yeah, and now I go back.

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I'm twenty three, twenty four,
twenty four years old. I dusting off

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my golf clubs. I'm still a
member because you can be a member till

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you're twenty eight if you're not married. So I went to practice every day.

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So at that time, I had
a conversation and enlightened conversation with a

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dear friend of mine who got me
into golf course architecture. And that's the

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time that, you know, I
got enlightened and he was nice enough to

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introduce me to Paragon Jack Nicholas Construction
Company. They were creating golf courses in

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Mexico and Palmidia and El Dorado down
in Cabbo, and that was my first

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gig. And the rest is history. That here we are chatting away,

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Fred amazing. Well, I was
able like you. I was able to

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take my two passions of audio production, you know, came from radio and

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golf and created this podcast. Now
I'm in my eighteenth year of doing it.

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So thank you and I and thank
you very much for inviting me to

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your podcast because I love the name. By the way, Oh thank you,

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thank you. I appreciate it.
Let's take a time out. I

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promise we will talk about golf course
architecture. But I have a feeling that

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Aggie and I are going to be
going all over the place on this one.

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But we're gonna take a time out
and we'll figure it out. We'll

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be right back. Unfortunately, the
last time I was in Ti Johanna was

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I think it was twenty fifteen.
My wife and I had gone down to

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Cabo for a week of relaxation and
didn't realize that the rain that they had

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said was coming was actually a hurricane. And we were, oh, yeah,

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00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:13,240
we were in a hurricane, o'deal. Oh yeah, yeah, it

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00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:18,120
was a that was a good one. And um, we'd only we'd only

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been in town for like twenty four
hours and they and we were going out

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00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:24,639
to lunch. Um, and they
said, Okay, where are you going?

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And like I beg your pardon,
like, yeah, where are you

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00:14:26,799 --> 00:14:30,600
going right now? Said, well, we have lunch reservations. We're going

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00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,519
out. They said be back by
two o'clock. It's like, why do

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00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:35,799
you want us back by two o'clock. It's like, because that's when the

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hurricanes get hit. Shelter we had, we had and we had to move

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00:14:41,559 --> 00:14:46,279
our room. We had an ocean
view room. They moved us back to

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the back of the building. Um. And it was horrendous. It was

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horrifying. It was horrifying. Yeah, and we were there after it happened.

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We were there. We were stuck, no water, no power for

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three days. And finally we were
airlifted out and they said they didn't check

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00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,759
passports, they didn't look at your
luggage nothing. They said, you want

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00:15:09,799 --> 00:15:13,840
to go to Cancoon Tijouana or Guadalajara, and we're like, uh, Tijuana.

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They went, okay, go get
on that plane, and luckily we

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got on the plane. They dropped
us off in Tijuana. We had to

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walk across the border and then my
son drove down from La and picked us

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up. Actually, we took a
bus to the border. They dropped us

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off there. Then they he picked
us up in San Diego. Nope,

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00:15:33,919 --> 00:15:37,759
that was the bus from Tijuana when
we crossed the border into San Diego and

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00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:43,519
then he two o'clock in the morning
he picked us up in San Diego and

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drove us back to La Hurricanes and
Cobo, no, because they don't.

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It was like the first time in
forty plus years that had happened. Yes,

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and now it's happening like every five
years. It's kind of crazy in

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Cabo, if you know, don't. I don't know if everybody that's that's

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listening or or viewing this, but
Cabo is in the tip of the peninsula

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of whole California and then Baja California
and its southern tip and hurricane Southern Tip

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and hurricanes that which start down in
Central America and come up through Acapulco Portovayata,

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Mazatlan start opening up right right towards
Cabo. It's right in the in

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the middle of the highway of Hurricane
Highway one oh one, that's Cabo.

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So it is. It is tough
whenever you see a hurricane, usually for

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travelers out there. I mean hurricane
season is going to begin in the real

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hurricane season September October. Watch out
for those two months. Just be aware.

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The good thing is that you have
like five days of of of of

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heads start heads up where you can
change your flight or do what I thought.

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It was just going to be shot. Yeah, you should have stopped

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in Tijuana. I'd had the it
was the middle of the night. Um

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and you also mentioned the palmia down
in Uhbo. I have played. I

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was a beautiful it didn't you?
Did you design that coutimental favorite? No?

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I did not. That's the Jack
Nicholas yea. But I was working

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for his construction Cocaine, so I
was. That was my first gig,

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Fred was make sure that all of
the labor guys had cold water in their

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jugs. That was my first gig. So how was my job just to

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run around the site putting ice and
putting water in the in the five gallon

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jugs or whatever. And then from
where I started working my way up and

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is it until I project managed the
job eventually, and yeah, it was.

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Is it three nines? Isn't that
it's three nine? Yea that's involved

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in the I was involved in the
Ocean nine, the last one, Ocean

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nine, and then and then because
of another hurricane I forget it was in

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East season. I forget the other
hurricane. It was in two thousand,

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ninety ninety nine or ninety eighth ninety
nine, we went back to the other

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nines to revamp it because there was
another hurricane coming in that year. So

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so that was my first gig,
and then I had participated as well in

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the Lolo and overall, I've been
very lucky. I've been involved in five

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golf courses in Cabo during my career. So I love that place. It's

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a very special place for me,
and it's our mecca of golf. It's

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the mecca of golf on our side
of the world in Latin America. Well,

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the time that I played there,
i'd played the front nine and I

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said, oh, I'm just gonna
go grab a sandwich, and they said,

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you know what, here's what we
want you to do. There's a

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threesome just going teeing off on the
second nine over there. Just go join

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them. We'll bring you the sandwich. I'm like, great, no problem.

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And one of the three people that
they hooked me up with there was

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Jesse the Body Ventura, No,
Ronnie Piper no and and so Jesse Ventura.

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He had already been the governor of
Minnesota, and he was wearing a

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tank top. He had a beard, his beard was braided down to it,

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you know, I had a little
braid sticking down. He had a

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huge around his neck was a huge
pewter marijuana leaf. I'll say it.

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I mean it's it was a long
time ago. And I'm like, what's

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00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,720
yeah, right, leg yeah,
Like what are you doing? What are

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00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,440
you doing here? And he says, well, actually I lived down here

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now because my wife she agreed there
were two things that I wanted and she

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only agreed to one, which was
I wanted to run for president and I

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wanted to be um. I wanted
to live in Mexico. And she says,

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if you don't run for president,
I'll move to Mexico. So and

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00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,279
he talked, he was so much
fun. He told stories NonStop. Whether

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you were hitting, putting, it
didn't matter. He was still talking.

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He had this little stogy of a
guitar, the guitar of a cigar that

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he was chewing on that was just
dripping down the side of his face.

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Totally entertained, totally entertained. I
remember the Lucky I mean, I don't

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know how his political career was,
but I remember him from his WWF.

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00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,200
Yeah, exactly, because I was
going up. I was going up.

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I was I don't know. I
was probably like fifteen fourteen years old at

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that time, so me and my
little brother were always watching WWF. Yeah.

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Well, when we get off this
call, tell you my story is

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00:20:40,599 --> 00:20:45,160
about working with a WWF and hanging
out with Randy Macho man Savage. It's

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00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,000
it's a crazy story and one of
my all time favorites. Let's talk about

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golf course architecture for a minute.
Talk. We have to sure we do?

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Um uh where do we begin?
So? Okay, from a from

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a designer's point of view, speaking
as an amateur golfer, what's the difference

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for you in design between a country
club, a resort course, and a

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muni. Oh, there's there should
be difference, and that is one of

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the most important things Fred. And
the first thing that we do when we

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arrive with a new client with a
new uh, either if it's if it's

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remodel or new, it's what is
the why? Why are we here?

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Why is everybody here? What is
the purpose the purpose of the of what

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we're doing here? I mean for
master planning to to Okay, we're going

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to master plan, and then what's
it going to be. Is it going

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to be a pain plan, Is
it going to be a country club,

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private, semi private? Is it
a resort course? Everything? If you

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know what you're talking about, every
single category should be designed different. Maybe

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a resort course, you would like
you're thinking about people that are there once

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a year, maybe for a week. They just want to break a hundred,

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friend, that's what they're there for. I just want to break a

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00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:17,839
hundred. I'm gonna open a champagne. I'm gonna open a nice bottle of

279
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wine. I'm gonna have a nice
dinner with my wife after I break a

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hundred on this course. That's what
they're looking for. That's in an overall,

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you know perspective. Yes, So
if you're in a country club is

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it private? What is the average
of your membership? Is the average of

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your membership sixty years old, then
it's a different golf course. You can't

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create a bunker where it's easy to
come in and then it's not easy to

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00:22:42,759 --> 00:22:45,880
come out, you know, because
you're they're gonna need a rope or they're

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gonna need some steps. So all
of that and it's I know, it's

287
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,480
it's it's funny, but not funny. It's kind of like you you see

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all these golf courses where we come
and and reassess or remodel, and guys,

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what's what's the membership average here?
You know, all of these bunkers

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they look beautiful, but you need
access. You need access, not on

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the way in the way it is
easy the way out. So all of

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these when you say the average,
you meant the average age, not the

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average scores, the average age,
not the average not the average handy care

294
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for the average corn, the average
age. So all of these things you

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take into account. But the number
one thing is what's the purpose. What

296
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is the why are why are we
in this room right now? What is

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the purpose? And what is the
business plan? Does it match? How

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can we now after we have those
now, our experience, our studies are

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you know, criteria. Everything now
blends in and now we can help you,

300
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okay, But if you do not
have and sometimes we collaborate and cooperate

301
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,400
as in we think that this golf
course should do this. Yes we do

302
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:06,839
it as well. But the more
information that you have, the more professional

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00:24:07,039 --> 00:24:11,079
minds, the better the think tank, the better the focus group, the

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00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,720
better the result. So what is
what do you have in mind? Fred?

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00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:18,519
That is the very important thing.
And we insist in our to our

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clients because you know we're we're not
we don't want to just we're not there

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00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:26,480
to take the money. Where did
it help? We're there to actually analyze

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00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:32,799
this. Yes, I'm you know, how can we cure your golf course

309
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,599
with maybe some makeup, maybe some
botox and where it needs maybe it will

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00:24:37,599 --> 00:24:41,960
do surgery, but I would like
to in a remodel. That's my Our

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00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:47,960
approach is that maybe some holes will
need a little bit of makeup, some

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00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,519
holes will need a little bit of
botox and some surgery. If it doesn't

313
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:56,559
need surgery, then it doesn't need
it. But you will only know if

314
00:24:56,599 --> 00:25:03,000
you know the purpose of the golf
course. In two years. Where do

315
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,240
they visualize yourself in two years or
in ten or in twenty. So,

316
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,599
yes, everything makes a difference,
or it should anyway, do you know

317
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,839
what you're talking about? If you
know what you're doing, Fred, every

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00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:22,720
single objective will make us design the
golf course differently fascinating. I want to

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00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,839
take another time out and have more
questions about getting from the client, your

320
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:37,240
client to the consumer, and we'll
be back right after this. Okay,

321
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So I understand. I completely understand
as being a vendor, when I meet

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with a new client, it's like, who's your target audience? When I'm

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00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:48,920
creating new content for them? Who
are you talking to? What are you

324
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:55,240
talking to? But from the golfer's
perspective, from the amateur, from the

325
00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:03,000
traveling golfer, from the local golfer, what can I take into consideration?

326
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,200
Knowing? Okay, this course was
designed as a as a country club meeting,

327
00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:11,960
I'm going to be playing here a
lot, or like you said,

328
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with a resort course, I'm going
to play here once a year, maybe

329
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:18,880
I'll play here just once. And
then there's the munis who are you know,

330
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they're not dedicated to their their golf
or they you know, like in

331
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Los Angeles, you have to belong
to a country club because there's not a

332
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,240
lot of public golf courses there,
which is very frustrating, or you have

333
00:26:33,319 --> 00:26:38,039
to drive an hour plus to get
to golf courses. So as the consumer,

334
00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:44,160
as the golf consumer and the recreational
golfer, what is it that I

335
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:52,599
should understand about golf course architecture that
is different between those three presentations. That's

336
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,599
another good one, Fred, because
first things, first things first, and

337
00:26:56,759 --> 00:27:00,160
it's I like how that you mention
it. Because when we get with our

338
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:07,559
client, we usually he's not our
end he's not our end used right,

339
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,519
yes, So when when we're with
our client, he just wants his name

340
00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:15,559
on it, He just wants to
see his name in big letters. But

341
00:27:15,559 --> 00:27:21,039
but sometimes the golf design or the
master plan we even have to save it

342
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,359
from his opinion because he is not
the end user. So you have to

343
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:32,279
understand again, what's the brief,
what is the business plan? Where?

344
00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:34,519
Where? What? Why are we
doing this? What's the why? So

345
00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:38,440
I always kid around kidding, not
kidding, it's like, hey, you

346
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:44,039
know, mister X, you are
not our client. You are the person

347
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,200
that writes the checks. Yes,
and thank you for but our clients,

348
00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:53,400
our clients, you and I is
the end user. We want the end

349
00:27:53,519 --> 00:28:00,720
user to be coming out of this
golf experience with a big smile in their

350
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,400
face. That's what we want.
And if and and we're we're very we

351
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,079
love to give to make business for
our clients. That's a whole purpose.

352
00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:15,480
So it's not for us. The
ego has to stay outside the room when

353
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we're designing this for the purpose that
that we want, which is you know,

354
00:28:21,559 --> 00:28:26,720
the making a sustainable golf course in
the economic side, in the in

355
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:30,799
the ecologic side, and the social
aspect. So that is the first thing.

356
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,960
So our end users and how as
an end user, what what can

357
00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:41,279
you expect? This is another tricky
one, friend, because not all golf

358
00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:45,839
courses are creative equal. Not all
golf courses are have the maintenance budget.

359
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:51,480
Not all golf courses have the same
ticket, the same experience, the same

360
00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:53,799
everything, which is part of the
beauty of golf. Every golf course is

361
00:28:53,839 --> 00:29:02,079
different. So get you know,
starting from there, I think number one,

362
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,440
it's it's bear in mind where you're
at. You know, if you're

363
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:14,119
in a fifteen dollars MUTI, let's
not over let's not exaggerate here, it's

364
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,440
not gonna be us open conditions.
Uh let's let's let's so, let's let's

365
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:25,440
first know where we're at. Yes, uh so. And again, if

366
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,599
you're in a if you're in Prebble
Beach, if you're in Tory Fines,

367
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:33,039
if you're in Aviada. Here in
San Diego, you're gonna expect, you

368
00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:37,319
know, every little flower to be
blooming, and it's beautiful and everything.

369
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:44,200
So I mean, very ample thing
to talk about, Fred, But I

370
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:52,000
would you know there there, I
wouldn't really think a lot unless you know

371
00:29:52,599 --> 00:29:57,519
it is a very good designer and
very well maintained. I think that you

372
00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:06,200
can actually start appreciating this, appreciating
the architecture. But but you know,

373
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:11,920
it's it's very difficult to explain,
to be honest, because expectations are are

374
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,000
are hard, you know, it's
that's the first point. Probably would my

375
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:22,079
first tip would be don't expect anything
and then try and read the golf course.

376
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,599
But again, it depends on where
you're at, so it's it's very

377
00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:29,359
difficult. Okay, let me let
me get into specifics then, because I

378
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:37,799
really want to pursue this thought fair
designing, fairways, country clubs, resorts,

379
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:44,079
munies. What's the difference in the
design of fairways for those three types

380
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:51,480
of courses. Okay, for a
resort, you're gonna want a wide landing

381
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:53,480
area. Yeah, so usually a
resort it can go all the way to

382
00:30:53,559 --> 00:30:56,680
three hundred feet of landing area.
I mean, it's crazy. You can

383
00:30:56,759 --> 00:31:00,400
just spray it all over the place. And uh, but that's the whole

384
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,839
point. Remember, we want we
want this guide to break one hundred.

385
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:08,559
So let's give him this area,
and then let's give them the nice rolling

386
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,359
greens. Maybe there's some movement,
but it's not gonna have you know,

387
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,160
from from twenty feet or thirty feet, you're not gonna really move the ball

388
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,720
a lot. Maybe it's one percent
falling left to right, but it's not

389
00:31:21,799 --> 00:31:26,279
gonna wiggle itself a lot. So
those are are are a few things.

390
00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:29,920
Obviously, bunker let's stay with fairways. I'll get to bunkers in a minute,

391
00:31:30,119 --> 00:31:33,160
So let's stay with the fairways.
Let's do it. You're gonna do

392
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,960
an ample on a country club private, semi private. You're going to go

393
00:31:38,119 --> 00:31:45,599
a little bit of a more of
a potential players course because you do want

394
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:52,480
your to challenge your membership. And
and yes, but again what is the

395
00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:57,240
overall uh, you know, average
age of your membership, and in fifty

396
00:31:57,319 --> 00:32:01,119
years it's going to change. So
if the if the country club did not

397
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:07,519
create a good job of getting new
membership, then then the golf course be

398
00:32:07,799 --> 00:32:14,799
old as in as in bunker position, as in everything. And again the

399
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,119
example of the bunkers that you can
go in but then you can't come out,

400
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,480
etc. So you also have to
be very careful careful about that.

401
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,920
So in in a country club,
people are playing there multiple times a week,

402
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,640
so you want it to be a
little more challenging. That's where you

403
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:35,400
want to create at If I'm designing
a country club, I am thinking about

404
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:42,920
mister, I'm thinking about about creating
little nuisances that that that you're not that

405
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:50,480
you're going to discover eventually. I'm
really thinking a completely different state of mind

406
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,599
in design. I want you,
I want you to really start discovering like

407
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,000
a great painting, a great piece
of art, work of art, that

408
00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:05,759
every time you see it, you
discover something. Depend It doesn't matter of

409
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,839
your of your handicap, your ability
to play. Usually, how I like

410
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:15,880
to put it is that the low
handicap, the highly higher skilled golfer,

411
00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:21,240
I want him to think and then
execute, and the higher handicap I wanted

412
00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:23,680
to execute and then think. And
then it's kind of like, oh,

413
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,880
wait a minute, I could have
done that. Yes, So so that's

414
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,880
that's what that's more or less the
language that I that I that I emphasize

415
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,279
on when I when I'm designing a
more challenging golf course. Now I do

416
00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:40,359
it anyway on a resort. But
but but that's just an example. And

417
00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:45,559
if you go all the way to
Muni's, I mean usually just unless it's

418
00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:52,640
a super Muni, usually you have
a very very you know, strict piece

419
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,839
of land that where where you can't
maybe do a lot of dog legs.

420
00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,720
So that's where you have your freeway
golf. Usually you know the whole number

421
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:04,759
one, whole number two, whole
number three, whole number four, five,

422
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,480
six, seven, eight, because
of the of the of the air

423
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:15,639
confronted with exactly so you're working on
a hundred acres maybe, so you got

424
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:21,519
to fit everything uh perfectly. Uh. And that's and that's those that's the

425
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:23,159
model of the old country clubs.
But then you would have to go back

426
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:29,280
to history and then you know,
after after the Great depression and uh and

427
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:35,320
then the economic boom comes up,
uh late early fifties, and that's that's

428
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,320
where everybody wanted a golf course.
So you had you wanted to produce a

429
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:43,599
quick golf course, and a lot
of golf courses from the fifties and the

430
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:49,199
sixties are that way as well.
So uh uh that's that's something I mean

431
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,400
in Muni, you you have to
you have to be very creative, which

432
00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:55,840
which is pretty cool as well,
because you have this piece of land,

433
00:34:57,199 --> 00:35:00,480
you have all these restrictions, and
what are you going to do with them?

434
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:06,039
So I think all going back to
the beginning of this chat, Fred,

435
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:07,639
it's like, what are you going
to do again? What's the brief?

436
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,559
What can we do in California?
You're going to have less acres of

437
00:35:12,599 --> 00:35:16,840
grass than in other places, all
these challenges you need to really take into

438
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:22,199
account. Now, how we like
to design is that we like to take

439
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,039
if you if you look at this
two D. Let's look at the two

440
00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:30,239
D. First, you're in a
in a in a sheet of paper with

441
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,480
all this topography and all these uh
you know, constraints or advantages or whatever

442
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,559
the soft analysis you come up with. And then I like to see it

443
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:47,159
as first it's an experience of creating
a treasure man, let's create this treasure

444
00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:52,119
mare. You have this beautiful piece
of land, because all pieces of land

445
00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:54,880
could be beautiful if you look at
it that way. So what are we

446
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,440
going to enhance? What are we
going to create? We want to create

447
00:35:59,519 --> 00:36:02,400
this as an adventure, as a
treasure map. We want to take the

448
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,119
golfer exploring. Come back to that
corner, come back to this level,

449
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,920
go up to that level. See
this rock, see this tree, see

450
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,599
the ocean, see the mountains,
see the desert, all of this.

451
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,199
You want to create a treasure map
in the routing. The routing is one

452
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,960
of the most important things that you're
going to get. Not everybody's a good

453
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:28,159
router, but the routing is number
one. It's part of the secret.

454
00:36:28,559 --> 00:36:34,400
How is the orientation, how is
the elevation, et cetera. And what

455
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,320
points are you explored? So you
take the golfer out exploring. Now,

456
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:44,400
fred as we like to see it. The third dimension is what I like

457
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:53,800
to call the You know, that's
when you create the the The third dimension

458
00:36:54,360 --> 00:37:00,880
is giving it the body. Yes, so it's you have the the emotional

459
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,440
graph. What am I gonna do
with you on this three D graph now,

460
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,760
And it's how I like to see
it is like creating a great play,

461
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,239
a great theatrical play, an artistic
movie, an eighteen whole chapter book,

462
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:20,480
or you're gonna start with the rising
action, the plot, the rising

463
00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:23,800
action, the climax, the surprising
ending, or the how all of that

464
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:30,840
structure is how I design a golf
course. And I'm thinking of these holes

465
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:35,320
where maybe I'm gonna be a little
bit easy on you on whole number one,

466
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,000
two and three, and then I'm
gonna pick it up a little bit,

467
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:39,800
and then we're gonna arrive to eight
and nine or seven and eight.

468
00:37:40,119 --> 00:37:43,800
Then I'm gonna let you rest.
I'm gonna pick You're gonna pick up a

469
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,199
couple of of bogies that you left
out there with maybe a birdie, but

470
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:52,239
then I'm gonna take it away on
this So I'm thinking about this story and

471
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:58,119
again, and you saw it on
where I broke down the tobacco road.

472
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,920
That was like whole number one on
tobacco roads, like boom right in your

473
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:07,599
face. Let me. I mean, so, would you like to see

474
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:12,679
that murder scene on the front right
when you when you're sitting down to watch

475
00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:16,800
a movie. Boom, murder scene
is gone. You're there, You're like

476
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:22,639
shocked. That's the beauty of Tobacco
Road. I'm personally would love it if

477
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:27,159
we start on the back nine,
as I said, because it starts a

478
00:38:27,199 --> 00:38:30,039
little bit, you know, dog
leggie, and then you start getting up

479
00:38:30,039 --> 00:38:37,280
to thirteen, where now you see
the tobacco Road ish uh you know plot

480
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:44,199
coming and you're like, holy moly. So but I love I love what

481
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,039
Mike Strands did with the you know, I love it as well. It's

482
00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:51,639
just it's just, how are you
designing this movie? How are you writing

483
00:38:51,639 --> 00:38:57,519
this book? Bread? That is
the whole secret of great artistic golf course

484
00:38:57,679 --> 00:39:04,920
architecture. Whoa, um, okay, another time out. We'll be right

485
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:14,000
back. You said so much.
I don't even know where to go um

486
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:21,400
on this that. Um. I
love that you said nuisance. I love

487
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,559
that you said nuisance and not nuance. That when you're designing for golf courses,

488
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:31,119
UM that you create nuisance for a
golfer, for their eye for what

489
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:36,719
they're approaching. Um that they may
not discover until they've played that course a

490
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,079
couple of times. They just thought
it was a hard hole. But now,

491
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:43,880
oh, you put that nuisance there
and that becomes the nuance. I

492
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,480
just love that. I think that's
so great. So when you're designing,

493
00:39:47,599 --> 00:39:52,800
you're using your movie analogy. Here
are you designing in two or three acts?

494
00:39:53,679 --> 00:39:57,840
Is it nine holes and nine holes
and nine holes or is it six

495
00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:04,000
six hole six holes? It could
be. Usually usually what we do is

496
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,360
think about the six holes, six
holes and six holes. As a matter

497
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:12,000
of fact, one of my new
concepts is the butterfly golf, which is

498
00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:15,480
four loops of six. But you
know, we can we can, we

499
00:40:15,559 --> 00:40:21,960
can get that to that later.
But uh, usually it's a six and

500
00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:24,519
it's not only a six. It's
it doesn't mean that it's from hole one

501
00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:29,119
to six. It just means that
six holes are going to be challenging.

502
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,800
Six holes are going to be medium
or or or, and then six there

503
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:43,079
could be a uh, you know, challenge. Take a breath, relax,

504
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:45,400
you know, kind of like just
you just have to hit this ball

505
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:50,840
and you'll be fine. You'll you'll
you'll have an easy bogie or or an

506
00:40:51,039 --> 00:40:55,039
easy part depending or or or an
easy birdie depending on your ability, and

507
00:40:55,239 --> 00:41:00,480
uh and get get some get some
strokes back. But that is all of

508
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:06,000
this adventure with the emotional graph that
we and we actually have an emotional graph.

509
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:10,239
I mean I actually draw it from
what I think the messages when you're

510
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:15,639
when you're playing the golf course.
So all of this comes into into effect.

511
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,360
Now if you want to get technical. Now we're talking about sustainability,

512
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:28,039
the the the the the balance between
science and art, in in in in

513
00:41:28,159 --> 00:41:31,559
relationship to nature. U. We're
talking about shot values. You know,

514
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,559
we're talking about am I giving you? We have like a little of fifty

515
00:41:36,679 --> 00:41:40,519
shots that I'd like to It's it's
kind of like a fifty shot exam that

516
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:45,079
we also have when we're designing sou
Have I have I? Am I asking

517
00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:49,119
you for this shot, for that
shot, for this shot? Have I?

518
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:57,000
You know, do you have a
a fade lie two way to uh

519
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:00,960
to a draw green? Have I
asked you for that? So? But

520
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:06,519
that now those are the nuances.
Now it's like, okay, now I'm

521
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:09,159
gonna start asking you. But again, what is the brief? Is this

522
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,599
a player's course? Is this a
more challenging or is this a resort style

523
00:42:14,639 --> 00:42:17,360
golf course. I'm not gonna I'm
not gonna put the ball underneath your feet

524
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,480
a lot if you land on the
fairway. Yes, So it's different,

525
00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:25,559
it's different askings for a different type
of audience. Now, one thing that

526
00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:29,239
I love, Fred, and I
like to say this as well, is

527
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:32,480
that I love that our golf courses
or that that golf, which is a

528
00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:38,679
beauty in architecture is I love how
it changes with your sense of you.

529
00:42:38,679 --> 00:42:44,360
You play, you play well.
I'm the best architect in the world.

530
00:42:44,639 --> 00:42:49,679
You play bad. I'm horrendous at
architecture. But that's the beauty I want.

531
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,360
I mean, I learned this.
It's since we were in since I

532
00:42:52,400 --> 00:43:00,199
studied regular architecture. The cathedrals in
the Middle Ages were done to make you

533
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:06,559
minuscule as a human being. Yeah, yes, so all of that,

534
00:43:06,639 --> 00:43:12,119
I mean that it had basically two
points. One was that the okival Gothic

535
00:43:12,199 --> 00:43:16,000
architecture could reach the sky, yes, But the other one was working with

536
00:43:16,039 --> 00:43:22,519
the scale, with a human scale
to make you feel like this. So

537
00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:27,840
that all of that psyche behind the
architecture, behind the proportion, behind the

538
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,039
rhythm, behind the balance, that
is very important. I take that to

539
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:37,840
be architecture beautiful. Wow, you
so much discussed with you. You're You're

540
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,800
definitely coming back. I just want
you to know you're definitely coming back because

541
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:45,480
there's so much to discuss looking but
we're not done. We're going to keep

542
00:43:45,559 --> 00:43:52,440
going here. What has there ever
been conversation? Has there ever been a

543
00:43:52,480 --> 00:44:04,719
discussion among golf course architects and even
golf course developers on creating courses because you

544
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:09,719
know, people's time is valuable,
and a lot of complaints about golf taking

545
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,880
too much of your day, taking
too long to play. So right now,

546
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,440
we're in a world of eighteen holes
where you play nine holes or you

547
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:22,159
play eighteen holes, you know,
like and you know, if you're if

548
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:23,679
you're in a country club, it's
like I'm gonna play three holes today,

549
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:29,079
That's okay. But for most of
us, it's like, I'm gonna play

550
00:44:29,159 --> 00:44:32,159
nine today. I'm gonna play an
eighteen hole course. What about the idea?

551
00:44:32,519 --> 00:44:38,519
And I know maybe design wise,
it's too difficult because the topography or

552
00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:44,760
even clubhouse design of I want to
play six holes today, I'm gonna play

553
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,519
twelve holes today, I'm gonna play
eighteen. So instead of a two hour

554
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,079
or a four hour round, or
a two and a half and a five

555
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:53,000
hour round, we're talking about I'm
going for an hour and a half.

556
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:59,480
Today, I'm gonna go for three
hours. I'm gonna go for the Unless

557
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,079
you're a member of a country club, that doesn't happen or seldom doesn't happen.

558
00:45:02,119 --> 00:45:06,920
Now, now these golf courses are
starting really pop up, which is

559
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,159
great, but you have to yeah, but not not not that notchcome.

560
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,679
They're starting to pop up, but
you have to go back to history.

561
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:20,159
I mean five hundred years ago,
three hundred years ago, golf was played

562
00:45:20,559 --> 00:45:25,320
in any hole there is. I
mean the first the first opens in in

563
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:31,639
in the British Isles were played in
Prestwick with twelve holes. Saint Andrews as

564
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,960
as you probably saw in the video, Saint Andrews was twenty two holes,

565
00:45:36,599 --> 00:45:44,719
So I mean, what just you
know, the eighteen became the norm and

566
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,760
then became the rule, and then
now it's championship and it evolved to that,

567
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,880
which is fair enough. But then
you're right, the best the commodity,

568
00:45:53,079 --> 00:45:58,320
that the high, the art art, time is very valuable and we

569
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:04,519
have known that, especially all this
pandemic part. I think we all learned

570
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:08,719
that how to appreciate and how we
can manage our time and our priorities so,

571
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:14,320
yes, you're right. You know
the problem is that when you're in

572
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,519
the golf course, I don't care. You can wait for twilight, and

573
00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:21,519
they still charge you for an eighteen
whole twilight. Why don't you charge me

574
00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:24,400
six? Why don't you charge me? You know? Uh, you know,

575
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,679
three bucks a hole, five bucks
a hole. I don't know.

576
00:46:29,199 --> 00:46:32,239
But let's get into other types of
operations, other types of you know,

577
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,039
it would be great if I can
just if it's four thirty and I'm like,

578
00:46:37,599 --> 00:46:42,559
I'm done here with Fred, I'm
gonna go play six holes. Hopefully

579
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,800
that could happen. But no,
I have to pay the full on the

580
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:52,320
full price of Twilight for an eighteen
hole. So that's that's another story that

581
00:46:52,559 --> 00:46:55,599
you know, it's in operations that
I would love for it to change.

582
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:59,719
You can charge my hole, et
cetera. On certain days. I have

583
00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:05,360
no idea because it's not my department. But what is my partment? My

584
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:13,559
part of this solution, Fred,
is that we have created since twenty seventeen,

585
00:47:13,639 --> 00:47:16,000
we have been designing for the non
golfer. I don't I don't know

586
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:22,079
how how how where you are about
that? But we started to create wellness

587
00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:27,039
golf. We've designed a few concepts
and that is why. And we've been

588
00:47:27,159 --> 00:47:30,920
very lucky in the past years to
be uh you know, mentioned as as

589
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:37,440
some or top five or top ten
or whatever of innovative architecture visionaries, et

590
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:42,400
cetera. On top of the sustainability, because you can also argue the sustainability.

591
00:47:42,599 --> 00:47:45,280
But what did we do, what
did we do or what we were

592
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:49,159
thinking and in our design studio in
twenty seventeen is hey, you know,

593
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:58,079
golf is time consuming, Golf is
judgmental, Golf is intimidating, uh price

594
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,480
at centa, etcetera. And it
takes a long, large piece of land,

595
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:07,360
so developers can only create a huge
piece of land or not, so

596
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:14,119
there's a higher risk. We started
to for the non golfer, which is,

597
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,519
you know, all of these factors, Let's get the grandmother to play

598
00:48:17,559 --> 00:48:22,639
with the grandson, Let's get the
mother to play with the daughter. Let's

599
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:24,920
get all of these that you don't
see in a country club. So we

600
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,519
started to design wellness golf, which
would love for you guys, say,

601
00:48:29,519 --> 00:48:32,679
if you hashtag wellness golf, a
lot of things will come up or in

602
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:37,960
our in our instagram. So wellness
golf multipurpose golf, golf lounge or the

603
00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:43,400
pit. All of these we started
to design. And then and and funny

604
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,079
that you mentioned it, because then
the other concept that we created. You're

605
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:49,440
gonna love this. I don't know
if you can see it there, but

606
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:54,519
it says Butterfly golf, and this
is Butterfly golf. Four loops of six.

607
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,079
So how many loops do you need
for an eighteen old golf course.

608
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:06,719
Three? So that means that if
you create four loops of six and you're

609
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:14,480
only using three, you can play
different golf course every day. And since

610
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:16,880
since whole note since there are four
whole number ones. I don't know if

611
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:23,679
I'm explaining myself, but you these
are not combinations. They're actually permutations because

612
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,519
you don't care where number one starts
as long as it starts one, one,

613
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:30,800
one, one. So you play
this one, this one, this

614
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,159
one, this one, this one, this one, this one, this

615
00:49:34,159 --> 00:49:36,239
one, this one, this one, this one, this one, and

616
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,639
then this one, this one,
this one is La la twenty four different

617
00:49:40,639 --> 00:49:47,039
golf courses with six more holes.
So we we actually think and we're very

618
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:51,639
positive, we're actually working on a
couple of golf courses now that have the

619
00:49:51,679 --> 00:50:00,119
butterfly golf concept. It was you
know, invented, created and designed by

620
00:50:00,199 --> 00:50:05,280
my piece of golf, and we
love and we feel very proud to create

621
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:09,480
these concepts never before seen. And
so with these four loops of nine,

622
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,400
now you can go and play six
holes fret. You can play nine,

623
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,599
you can play twelve, you can
play twenty four, you can play eighteen.

624
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:22,159
And if you're there for twenty four
days, I will promise you those

625
00:50:22,159 --> 00:50:27,760
twenty fours, you will play a
different circuit. That's an incredible concept.

626
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,480
And I promise the golf smarter listeners, the audio listeners, I'll create a

627
00:50:32,519 --> 00:50:36,920
short video on just what he explained, because he was holding up a diagram

628
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:42,519
that explains what the butterfly golf is. So keep looking in social media for

629
00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:45,800
the short video that i'll put out. I'll put in YouTube and LinkedIn and

630
00:50:46,599 --> 00:50:50,119
Instagram, TikTok, I'll put it
all over the place so you can see

631
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:53,760
exactly what Aggie was just talking about. That was brilliant. I love that

632
00:50:53,840 --> 00:51:01,840
concept. You've mentioned multiple times.
Sustainable courses. Now, yes, that

633
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:07,800
was probably not a word used in
original golf course design. It's probably more

634
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:12,480
of a twenty first century concept.
What exactly do you mean by a sustainable

635
00:51:12,519 --> 00:51:16,119
golf course? And why? And
I apologize for asking two questions at once,

636
00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:22,840
but why is it important? It
is important because we need to create

637
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:28,280
a conscience. I mean, you
know, to goo, the golf courses

638
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,719
weren't even alter to be used.
The links you had, You had the

639
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:36,159
sheep, you know, grazing,
grazing the grass. You had the fertilizers

640
00:51:36,199 --> 00:51:40,639
from the birds. You had,
you had sandy soil. We're talking about

641
00:51:40,679 --> 00:51:46,480
the British Links. Yes, you
had sandy soil. Now industrial revolution comes

642
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:52,039
up, you know, late eighteen
hundreds, Industrial revolution. Guess what,

643
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:59,960
Now we can create the first golf
course in in clay so let instead of

644
00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:05,320
traveling for twelve hours on train to
play the Scottish Links, now we can

645
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,519
have our first golf course here in
London. So the men, you know,

646
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:14,000
human beings, ego. Now it's
like, hey, let's bring it

647
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:21,559
over here. So now we alter
the sequence of nature. Now we can

648
00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:27,000
build whatever we want because we discovered
or made machines. And curiously, that's

649
00:52:27,039 --> 00:52:32,519
when golf proper golf architecture began,
because prior to that it was nature and

650
00:52:32,559 --> 00:52:37,960
it was actually just laying out a
golf course. When that golf, when

651
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:44,360
that industrial revolution comes up, the
Harry Colts of the world started to make

652
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:50,599
plans because he needed to plan to
build it on play and create these movements

653
00:52:51,199 --> 00:52:55,599
that only nature could do. So
to emulate nature, he had to plan.

654
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:02,079
And that's when the first you know, paper plans began, when we

655
00:53:02,119 --> 00:53:07,519
took these golf courses away from natural
links. So, uh, there's a

656
00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:10,880
big debate, at least in my
book. I mean, I create my

657
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:16,639
own debate something. So there's I
mean for me is did we do the

658
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:22,239
right thing of forcing golf on other
parts of the world. I mean,

659
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:27,679
should Lake Las Vegas ever existed?
Should should you know? Or should have

660
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:34,440
we played like tennis in clay and
in different types of of surfaces instead,

661
00:53:34,639 --> 00:53:39,719
because the the you know, the
the game, the rules, the the

662
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:45,599
the honorable games could stay the same
regardless of where you're playing. It doesn't

663
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:52,280
matter. So anyway, that is
something that we took as human beings because

664
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,519
we could, and we took it
all over the world and it was beautiful,

665
00:53:55,599 --> 00:54:00,840
it was great, and we're all
passionate about this sport. So now

666
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:07,039
forward years years later and we have
you know, I mean golf contributes a

667
00:54:07,039 --> 00:54:10,599
lot. To be honest, Fred, golf contributes a lot. There is

668
00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:15,000
there is, I mean and justin, justin, And if you take it

669
00:54:15,079 --> 00:54:23,239
into account, the it's the sport
that that creates or generates most employment of

670
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:28,280
any other sport. When it comes
to maintenance, the maintenance crewe, the

671
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,760
operations crew, there's you know,
there's a lot of dozens of people working

672
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:37,320
there. So you asked me about
sustainability. The more that we advance,

673
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:42,960
the more people that we're here,
the more blah blah blah all of that

674
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,719
you have to create a better conscience. We have to eat less meat because

675
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:52,119
deforestation is one of the highest you
know, of the most important things in

676
00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:58,079
in in what we're in in our
in our in our world. We're deforestation

677
00:54:58,159 --> 00:55:01,199
because of the meat industry. We
have all this methane coming up. We

678
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:06,199
have a lot of things. So
meat lovers, you know, if we

679
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:10,480
don't measure ourselves, it's only going
to become a bigger problem. But I

680
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:15,400
don't want to deviate from no preaching. Now you have a golf that I'll

681
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:19,679
do that. No, no,
no, no, So now you have

682
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,480
golf where it actually you know,
yes, there is deforestation, Yes,

683
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:29,280
there is, but there's also a
lot of beautiful things that a golf course

684
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:34,039
does. Uh. In the now, let's let's let's remind ourselves what is

685
00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:38,760
sustainability. Sustainability is economic? Is
it? Is it supporting the economy,

686
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:46,360
the social aspect, and the natural
aspector or ecological aspect. Nothing that we

687
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:53,559
do fred as human beings is going
to be completely sustainable. Even even sustainable

688
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:59,199
projects are not sustained or I mean
they're not. You know, we we're

689
00:55:59,199 --> 00:56:04,000
gonna have all to something. We're
going to alter something. So what are

690
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,800
we gonna do? We just need
to think about the best way to alter

691
00:56:08,639 --> 00:56:15,559
the less amount of of altering that
is. That is what we need to

692
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:20,440
do. So so a golf course. You know why did we create the

693
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:30,079
butterfly golf concept? It's because you
know, resorts that have thirty six holes,

694
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:35,960
they won't need them anymore. You
can do twenty four and have more

695
00:56:36,079 --> 00:56:40,480
variety than a thirty six hole golf
course. So depending on we designed this

696
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:45,000
when we were doing the Septica in
uh in, Mexico, which is a

697
00:56:45,199 --> 00:56:51,800
very nature friendly and sensitive area.
So why why would I why on top

698
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:57,440
of everything that we were designing,
we wanted to disencourage more golf resorts to

699
00:56:57,519 --> 00:57:01,519
come in and and and and be
the next you know, Cankoon or the

700
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:06,360
next whatever. We wanted to disencourage
that. So what do we do?

701
00:57:06,519 --> 00:57:09,920
We created the four loops of six
so that we can have twenty four golf

702
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:15,519
courses in one Why would anybody else
come here and put another golf course as

703
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:20,719
your neighbor. So those are the
things that we thought about when we were

704
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,760
designing this. It's it's very tricky
for it because every single place is different,

705
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:31,440
every single situation is different, every
single social aspect is different, economic

706
00:57:31,599 --> 00:57:36,840
is different. So what country are
you doing it? In that state?

707
00:57:37,039 --> 00:57:39,559
In that country, what state are
you doing it? Everything changes. You

708
00:57:39,559 --> 00:57:46,559
just have to be conscious of what
you are creating and doing and ask yourself

709
00:57:47,039 --> 00:57:52,840
is this leaving some sort of legacy, some sort of lesson too? So

710
00:57:53,039 --> 00:58:00,880
from here people can grow in a
more sustainable way. That is at least

711
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:06,400
my version of it. And you
know, Fred, everything here is only

712
00:58:07,519 --> 00:58:10,239
how I think. It's your house. It's your house. That's that's well.

713
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:14,360
I have to be conscious of taking
another break because we want to let

714
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,400
anyone know what happened in golf smart
Mulligans this coming week, so we'll be

715
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:23,199
right back. This week is number
four of nine in our Tony Manzoni series

716
00:58:23,239 --> 00:58:28,840
to help you launch your new golf
season. This week is the second part

717
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,920
of taking your game to the next
level, one club at a time.

718
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,920
You know, when you're in and
around the green, which is a scoring

719
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,599
area, whether you're pitching the ball
on, you want to do it the

720
00:58:38,679 --> 00:58:43,519
simplest way, the way that even
if you miss hit, it doesn't become

721
00:58:43,559 --> 00:58:46,719
a catastrophe. When you start lifting
that club up and bringing it down on

722
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:51,320
the ball and a more steeper angle, the miss hit is going to be

723
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,719
horrendous, or your line driving over
the green into a lake or something like

724
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:59,519
that. Where when you're using a
more level to the ground stroke, if

725
00:58:59,559 --> 00:59:01,679
you hit a little bit sin or
a little bit sad, it doesn't hurt

726
00:59:01,719 --> 00:59:07,079
you. That's golf Smarter. Mulligan's
episode two hundred three, which is number

727
00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:12,519
four of nine featuring our friend and
mentor Tony Manzoni. Check the show notes

728
00:59:12,559 --> 00:59:15,639
to learn how to get Tony's book
The Lost Fundamental One Simple Move, Better

729
00:59:15,639 --> 00:59:21,719
Golf Forever, and gain access to
his video of the same name. Please

730
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:25,880
subscribe for free to our sister podcast
that revisits the best of the Golf Smarter

731
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:31,440
podcast, and it's called Golf Smarter. Mulligan's being released every Friday from wherever

732
00:59:31,639 --> 00:59:40,480
you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Aggie, I wrote so many different questions

733
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:44,199
about what I wanted to discuss with
you today, and we haven't touched on

734
00:59:44,239 --> 00:59:51,320
any of it because everything is just
flowing. So what you've mentioned multiple times

735
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,360
the video, I've seen the video. I don't know if anybody else has

736
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:59,719
seen the video or what you're talking
about. Can I make the video available

737
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:04,559
or is this something that's uh,
what's the deal? And tell me about

738
01:00:04,559 --> 01:00:09,559
the video? No, of course, it was just we It's with Eric

739
01:00:09,559 --> 01:00:15,960
anders Eric anders Land a dear friend
of mine, and we've done so many

740
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:27,760
things together that we have become blinder, uh puddy. He content maker,

741
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:32,679
Yes, a great storyteller, a
fantastic storyteller and uh so, so he

742
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:42,519
creates content and and and we we
created a segment which I think it was

743
01:00:42,599 --> 01:00:46,239
never before seen, where we break
down five golf holes, five of my

744
01:00:46,280 --> 01:00:49,960
favorite golf holes. So we're just
breaking them down. You know what I

745
01:00:50,039 --> 01:00:55,400
think about this? You know about
about you know Cyprus points fifteen, about

746
01:00:57,119 --> 01:01:01,920
the seventeen at TPC sawgrass Uh one
of our designs and Tempico, so we

747
01:01:02,039 --> 01:01:07,719
breaked out five. It's on Eric
Anders feed I mean, we've gotten some

748
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:12,360
great, great reviews, some great
feedback, and we were just having fun

749
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,400
doing it. And that's that's the
whole point, is it. Fred.

750
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:22,159
I really love this this era of
podcasting and creating content because it's it's not

751
01:01:23,199 --> 01:01:29,159
you know, you're free to talk. It's not elaborative. It's just a

752
01:01:29,199 --> 01:01:34,239
couple of guys having fun that you
know, talking about what they think or

753
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:39,719
their experience in life. And hopefully
on this one and on the way we

754
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:50,079
can we can wake up an aspiring
golf architect out there, an aspiring superintendent,

755
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:54,199
anybody that wants to come into this
beautiful, um and unique golf case.

756
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:59,400
Well, I will definitely then put
the h I'll put the video on

757
01:01:59,559 --> 01:02:07,039
the blog post for at golf smarter
dot com for for this episode, so

758
01:02:07,119 --> 01:02:09,880
everyone should check that out. It's
really entertaining and it's really interesting. You

759
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:16,880
talk about your five favorite golf holes
in the world, right, and I

760
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:22,480
had one I wanted to ask you
about specifically as it's a Mexico golf course

761
01:02:24,239 --> 01:02:30,760
and the only TPC course in Mexico, TPC Danzante Bay in just south of

762
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:37,559
Loretto. Are you familiar with that
course? I have played there six times

763
01:02:37,559 --> 01:02:39,639
now because we're time share owners.
We went to that place once, went

764
01:02:40,039 --> 01:02:49,360
we're in. We absolutely love Danzante
Bay and the Via del Palmar Islands of

765
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:53,920
Loretto. It's gorgeous um, it's
a great golf course. There's great hiking

766
01:02:54,000 --> 01:03:00,239
there. The water Sea of Cortez, which I now understands called the See

767
01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:04,159
of Mexico because we don't think Cortez
was a nice guy. So the Sea

768
01:03:04,199 --> 01:03:09,519
of Mexico, which Jacques Cousteau called
the aquarium of the world, it is

769
01:03:09,559 --> 01:03:13,880
the aquarium best world. And I've
snorkeled in many places around the world.

770
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:17,440
Is the best snorkeling I've ever done
in my life. So number seventeen TPC

771
01:03:17,599 --> 01:03:22,559
Donzante Bay takes my breath away every
single time I come up over the top.

772
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:29,440
And then there you have it,
this incredible hole. Part three you

773
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,440
want to please, I would love
your feedback and your thoughts on that whole.

774
01:03:34,239 --> 01:03:37,599
Well, I'll tell you something,
Fred. It is designed by a

775
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:43,159
dear friend of mine as well,
Reese Jones and I've known Reese for a

776
01:03:43,199 --> 01:03:45,760
few years. I've I've I've played
I had the privilege of playing with him

777
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:52,119
National Golf Lakes. So so I'm
biased. But regardless of the bias,

778
01:03:52,159 --> 01:03:58,239
it is a phenomenal design and it's
something that we also have to you know,

779
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:00,679
we don't have to, but let's
let's mention it. It's it's a

780
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:05,679
it's a different you know, this
era. Uh. They're pioneers in the

781
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:13,159
era of you know, student of
the game architects. You know, uh,

782
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:18,119
Rhys Jones, Robert Trent Jones,
you know these uh. And and

783
01:04:18,199 --> 01:04:24,800
now there's a great generation of golf
golf architects out there that are just killing

784
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,880
it. In the past uh seven, eight, ten years. Maybe there's

785
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:35,320
a new generation that that is just
you know, creating these masterpieces. And

786
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:39,760
I have to say Don Santeve is
one of them. And that part three

787
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:45,199
behind there, that's sitting right on
that flat top overlooking the Sea of Cortez.

788
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:48,239
Uh, it's actually uh the other
the official name is the Gulf of

789
01:04:48,559 --> 01:04:53,920
the Golf of Baja calt for you, not the golf, the Golf Cortez

790
01:04:54,039 --> 01:04:58,280
is also there. The golf the
Gulf of Baja So you have the Gulf

791
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,559
of Baja, Sea of Cortez,
a clarium of the world, call it

792
01:05:00,639 --> 01:05:03,719
whatever, just call it. You
know, it's we have a saying an

793
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:09,000
architecture. Exactly, we have a
saying an architecture. Talk bad or talk

794
01:05:09,079 --> 01:05:14,000
good, but talk. If you're
not talking about about our architecture, that

795
01:05:14,039 --> 01:05:18,679
means that we're just a plain regular
guy and we don't want that. So

796
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:26,440
uh so uh it's a great piece, great work of art out there in

797
01:05:26,599 --> 01:05:30,440
Loreto. It's a little bit difficult
to get to unless you're from La So

798
01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:34,199
yeah, there's direct flights from La
but other than that, coming up from

799
01:05:34,199 --> 01:05:39,800
Mexico, it's very difficult to get
up to Loreto. But it's a beautiful

800
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:44,280
place. And if you go up
to Senta by car, come down,

801
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:49,559
come down to to La Paz,
all of that inside of the Baja is

802
01:05:50,039 --> 01:05:58,639
a beautiful, beautiful piece and and
unspoiled piece of so well, yeah,

803
01:05:59,199 --> 01:06:03,199
thing was bored us like crazy,
but um, the beautiful part about Baja

804
01:06:03,199 --> 01:06:05,960
And a lot of people probably don't
know this, especially if they're not in

805
01:06:06,039 --> 01:06:14,400
California. Baha, California is practically
the same length miles north to south as

806
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:20,559
California's it's big. Yeah, it's
big, exactly. The one of my

807
01:06:20,599 --> 01:06:26,440
favorite fun facts about Baja is when
you get to Cabos on Lucas, which

808
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:32,000
is the southernmost point of Baja.
If you leave Baja and just head due

809
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:40,039
south on Planet Earth, the first
piece of land you come to is Antarctica.

810
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:46,559
There's no believe you're going straight down
the Pacific. Yeah. Yeah,

811
01:06:46,639 --> 01:06:50,360
You're going to the belly through the
belly of the Pacific Ocean, which if

812
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:55,920
you take the if you take Planet
Earth and flip it like and you look

813
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:59,880
at the middle of the Pacific Ocean, you barely see land on the side.

814
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,960
It's pretty exciting. Go to Google
Earth and just just go like this

815
01:07:03,119 --> 01:07:08,960
to the Earth to the Pacific Ocean. That's a very good one. And

816
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:13,159
so you're right, Loretto is tough
to get to. There are flights from

817
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:21,400
Houston and from Los Angeles, right, but well there San Francisco is during

818
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:29,239
their high season, so only between
I think it's April to Novem no no

819
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:32,599
other way around November to April till
April. You can get a direct flight

820
01:07:32,639 --> 01:07:35,760
from San Francisco. It's only two
and a half hours. It's much closer

821
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:43,199
to Dowai and much Hawaii. Yeah. Well, and and kudos to Rees

822
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:46,679
Jones, a great job. It's
not you know. And here's an example,

823
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:50,840
like number whole number one. They're
very wide, fairway, very forgiving,

824
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:56,199
and it's a resort course, so
you're gonna want to play it and

825
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,760
go, oh yeah, I want
to come back and play it again.

826
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:04,119
And generally you'll do that, you
know, while you're still there. If

827
01:08:04,119 --> 01:08:08,280
you spend a week there, get
to play a couple of times because you're

828
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:12,079
gonna spend up a lot of time
in the water too. Um. Yeah,

829
01:08:12,199 --> 01:08:15,119
I'm glad that I'm glad that you
appreciate. I'm glad you've played it.

830
01:08:15,199 --> 01:08:18,359
I can't wait to get back to
that course. I just just love

831
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:23,560
it. All right. Let's wrap
it up with this one. Who are

832
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:36,840
your idols in the design world of
golf course architecture? Oh uh not Golden

833
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:44,000
Age of architecture Alistair Mackenzie Number one. A lot of inspiration from from Alister

834
01:08:44,119 --> 01:08:48,359
from his books Spirit of St.
Andrew's just unbelievable. I would have to

835
01:08:48,439 --> 01:08:55,319
say, uh, Tom Fazio.
Tom Fazio is another. I consider him

836
01:08:55,359 --> 01:08:59,119
one of my mentors. I had
the privilege of working at Cadencia with them

837
01:09:00,079 --> 01:09:03,520
me as a junior project manager.
But I had the chance to do everything

838
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:09,399
down his first golf course south of
the border in Kerencia, in Cabo.

839
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:14,680
So I had the privilege and the
honor to work with that fantastic group and

840
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,640
including uh, mister Fazio. So
I've always you know, I get I

841
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:23,640
get pumped up when I when I
talk about his his architecture. I think

842
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:28,439
the the the aesthetics, the quality
that I learned from that golf course,

843
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:34,560
which I think that I I I
grabbed and and made it mine. And

844
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:40,039
uh and and that's the quality that
I'm looking for whenever we were out there

845
01:09:40,079 --> 01:09:45,399
working. So um uh that that
is that is that and uh and right

846
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:51,159
now I'm uh, I mean,
I'm I really admire everything that you know,

847
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:56,199
the new generation that I mentioned is
is out there doing. I mean

848
01:09:56,199 --> 01:10:00,439
that David McClay kid, who's another
a good friend of mine. I admire

849
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,359
his work a lot. David Kid
is awesome, you know. Um,

850
01:10:04,319 --> 01:10:09,199
you know, uh, you know
corn Crunchhaw, they're killing it out there.

851
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:13,439
I really like what they're doing.
And uh and you have you know,

852
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:17,479
have the Phillips and the dogs and
all this this great group that's coming

853
01:10:17,479 --> 01:10:23,359
out and just saying, hey,
there is the new Golden age of architecture.

854
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:28,000
One hundred years later. There is
this great generation which I would love

855
01:10:28,079 --> 01:10:31,159
to be and feel, I like
to feel a part of where we're just

856
01:10:31,319 --> 01:10:36,199
you know, disrupting a little bit. Uh uh, so you know some

857
01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:42,439
or or you know, hold onto
the golden age of architecture. I'm not

858
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:47,000
like that. I think that maybe
we haven't discovered the best way to golf

859
01:10:47,159 --> 01:10:54,760
architect so I'm trying to do that. But but at the end, it

860
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:58,399
is it is a very great generation
that has that, that is out there

861
01:10:58,439 --> 01:11:02,840
doing some fantastic sustainable I think we'll
see families do this like we've seen in

862
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:06,479
the past, the Fasios and the
and the Jones, you know who,

863
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:10,840
multiple generations of designers. Are we
going to see that ever? Again?

864
01:11:13,239 --> 01:11:15,520
Hope so well, I'm hoping for
my kids to come in. I didn't

865
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:19,720
want to lead you into that,
but okay, part of it, of

866
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:24,640
course. I mean, there's nothing
I would be honored if they're still young,

867
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:27,840
They're still very young, but I
would be honored if if, if,

868
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:31,760
if there's a family legacy left behind. But uh, you know,

869
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:35,439
the the of course, I would
love I would love that, and I

870
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:40,680
would love that to continue. Yes, I mean you know, uh,

871
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:45,680
there's a big difference between marketing on
a golf course and architecture and and and

872
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:51,359
now I think you know, clients
and and and developers have noticed that.

873
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:57,920
It's it's a it's a difference.
It's you can have the celebrity designers,

874
01:11:58,319 --> 01:12:00,960
you know, you know mark it, let let let that that's yeah,

875
01:12:01,079 --> 01:12:06,000
let the name sometimes depending on the
brief, let You're depending on the brief,

876
01:12:06,279 --> 01:12:11,279
depending on the purpose, and what
is the why on the you know,

877
01:12:11,359 --> 01:12:15,239
the business plan it is and what
is the why perfect fit and then

878
01:12:15,399 --> 01:12:21,960
the other why. You have now
this great option of other you know,

879
01:12:23,199 --> 01:12:29,119
students of the game than the architect
which is which is just a different way

880
01:12:29,119 --> 01:12:31,680
of doing it. Nothing. It
doesn't matter who's best, who's better who

881
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:36,880
It depends if it's a great fit, it's perfect for that what we're looking

882
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:41,399
for. So that that's that's all
there is. That The beautiful thing is

883
01:12:41,399 --> 01:12:44,760
that there's just a lot of options
that Aggie, this has been so much

884
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:48,960
fun. I really I really am
going to bring you back. I cannot

885
01:12:49,039 --> 01:12:54,279
wait to have another conversation. You're
a pizza Pizza golf, right, I

886
01:12:54,319 --> 01:13:00,640
appreciate it. Pisa golf p a
z a golf dot com. Check out

887
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:06,960
his stuff, um, follow him
on Instagram. Uh and come yeah at

888
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:15,199
at at all right Instagram and um, please come to golfsmarter dot com and

889
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:19,319
you'll check out the video. Um
on the blog post, you'll check out

890
01:13:19,319 --> 01:13:25,680
the video that he did. That. Boy was this entertaining. Auggie,

891
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:29,720
thank you so much. Really enjoyed
it. Can't wait to have another one,

892
01:13:31,399 --> 01:13:34,239
Fret. Thank you very much.
I really appreciate your interest in our

893
01:13:34,279 --> 01:13:40,600
work because it's not just Augie Pissa. I have a beautiful, beautiful team

894
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:45,279
behind me. Uh and uh and
I'm just very grateful for this opportunity to

895
01:13:45,319 --> 01:13:49,680
share a little bit of my thoughts
and the way I think. So thank

896
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:56,479
you very much for those of you
who've been writing to me over the last

897
01:13:56,479 --> 01:14:00,479
ten days. Thank you for your
patience. Is Today is my first back

898
01:14:00,359 --> 01:14:08,199
and from vacation and was met with
computer problems that took all of my morning

899
01:14:08,319 --> 01:14:13,439
and lunch, which delayed production of
this episode. I will be responding to

900
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:17,319
your emails in the next twenty four
hours. So we just returned from our

901
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:24,640
outrageous adventure that was kind of like
being on Safari, but this time we

902
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:30,239
were on the west coast of Baja
California in the water, interacting with mother

903
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:36,399
and baby gray whales. The keyword
here is interacting, as this is the

904
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:43,600
only place in the world where mother
whales encourage their newborn calves to go up

905
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:47,720
to these twenty four foot boats with
no more than seven people aboard and literally

906
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:56,840
encourage the calves to get petted and
kissed and sung too by humans. I

907
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:01,159
can't think of other than your dogs
and you know, domesticated animals. I

908
01:15:01,199 --> 01:15:11,159
can't think of any wild animals that
encourage their babies to interact with humans.

909
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,119
It's outrageous and it was so much
fun and so exciting. I love that

910
01:15:15,199 --> 01:15:18,960
stuff. I'm working on a video
that we'll get posted, but if you're

911
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:26,359
interested in learning more about it,
check out Baja ba Ja Baja ecotours dot

912
01:15:26,359 --> 01:15:30,800
com. As i'm recording this,
it's still raining here in northern California,

913
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:35,319
but it's supposed to calm down starting
tomorrow, thank goodness, because I'm really

914
01:15:35,439 --> 01:15:43,359
having some serious golf withdrawals, having
only played a couple of times since November.

915
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:48,960
I know you folks in the Midwest
and the East. I know you

916
01:15:49,039 --> 01:15:53,760
go months without playing every year,
but I don't, so this is really

917
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,640
hard for me. I want to
thank Tom Thompson of Delphi, Indiana for

918
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:01,640
opening up today's episode is a golf
Smarter ambassador. Tom chose to receive Tony

919
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:08,239
Manzoni's video of the Lost Fundamental,
and you can too. Send an email

920
01:16:08,279 --> 01:16:14,159
to Golf Smarter podcast at gmail dot
com and request our simple instructions to leave

921
01:16:14,199 --> 01:16:17,560
a voicemail at our toll free golf
Smarter line, and when you do,

922
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:23,279
you can choose one of three gifts, including a dozen balls with a golf

923
01:16:23,319 --> 01:16:29,000
Smarter logo from Odin Golf, the
golf brand that sponsors and pays everyday golfers.

924
01:16:29,079 --> 01:16:31,840
These twour quality balls are a fraction
of the price of what you'll usually

925
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:36,640
pay, and when you use the
code golf Smarter at checkout, you'll receive

926
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:42,479
an additional twenty percent off the order. Their link is in today's show notes.

927
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:45,800
You also have the option to receive
a new glove and glove storage compartment

928
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:50,000
from Red Rooster golf dot com,
and of course you can also get that

929
01:16:50,079 --> 01:16:56,800
private online link to Tony Manzoni's video
of the loss fundamental. So please send

930
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:59,920
an email and I'll get back to
you with some instructions of what to do

931
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:05,600
and what to say. Just write
to Golfsmarter Podcast at gmail dot com or

932
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:15,640
click on the Hey Fred button when
you visit goolfsmarter dot com