WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:08.400 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Be Frank. 2 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:14.919 We're the only way to be, is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome 3 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:18.440 to Being Frank. We're the only way to be, of course, is 4 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:22.199 Frank. I'm your host, Frank Robono, and we'd like to thank you 5 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:27.320 for joining us here. And we like to call the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. 6 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:32.280 We know your time is valuable. There's so much competition, so many podcasts, 7 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:36.280 but we like to think of ourselves as an alternative to all that noise. 8 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:40.200 So we really appreciate you sharing at least some of your day with Being 9 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:44.520 Frank. 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We usually begin on Thursdays. Today is 28 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:09.479 a little bit of an exception where actually taping live to tape on a Friday, 29 00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:14.719 the fourth of August, and we give you that so you have a 30 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:17.960 little context and perspective. But remember you can listen at your convenience at any 31 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:23.400 time. Every program is archived, so you can listen to any being frank 32 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:27.840 virtually anytime you want, anywhere you want. We think it's the intelligent thing 33 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.719 to do. When I was a young man growing up in the early nineteen 34 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:35.759 seventies and Fort Lee, New Jersey and our thick accent we called it Fort 35 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:39.360 Lee, New Jersey, most of my friends spent their college years haunting the 36 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:44.439 bars and discos so popular at the time. But I was a little different. 37 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:49.639 I was totally captivated by the bohemian lifestyle taking place in Greenwich Village. 38 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:53.039 I eat the village that I had read so much about, particularly during the 39 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:59.120 so called Golden Age of folk music in nineteen sixties. So would either walk 40 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:02.159 across the Georgia to Washington Bridge, or take the bus across to the Uptown 41 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:07.240 Port Authority bus terminal, and then ride the A train downtown to West Fourth 42 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:12.120 Street, the beating heart of the village. As soon as I stepped out 43 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.439 of the dark subway station into the bustle of West Forth, I knew that 44 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:19.800 I was in a different world than the one I experienced in a relatively suburban 45 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:23.919 town where I lived at the time, and I did my best to live 46 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:29.039 the ideal that I felt was so ingrained in the village Psyche. I went 47 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.759 to most, if not all, of the famous music joint shops and cafes 48 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:37.719 that I had read so much about. But as I as much as I 49 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:40.919 dreamed about doing so, I never actually lived in the village and was probably 50 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:47.039 about a decade behind this houseon days I had romanticized about it left me feeling 51 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:51.159 that I was more. It was never more than just really a visitor. 52 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:55.199 Well on being frankly welcome, Welcome a woman who not only lived it, 53 00:03:55.400 --> 00:04:00.800 she has even written a book about her days at the forefront of the folk 54 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:05.000 scenes, glory days in the nineteen sixties, even managing folk giants like Dave 55 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:11.560 Van Ronk and legend Bob Dylan, among others. It's called My Greenwich Village. 56 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:15.639 Dave, Bob and me. Welcome Terry Thal, thank you for joining, 57 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:19.879 Thank you, thank you for having me here. Certainly my pleasure. 58 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:24.959 And we've spent a little time before the program catching up, and we have 59 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:30.959 some mutual friends, including Neil Richter, our engineer, and some common experience 60 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.120 and one of them I want to get back to before we actually spend a 61 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:35.839 lot of time with the book. But I think we need a little background, 62 00:04:35.879 --> 00:04:41.560 a little context, to get there first. And we've mentioned you didn't 63 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:43.839 grow up, if you will, in the village. In other words, 64 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:46.439 you really were in a child there. You really grew up in Brooklyn, 65 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:50.160 And certainly in that era of the fifties and sixties, Brooklyn seemed a long 66 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:56.199 way from Greenwich Village. So how did you get from one to the other? 67 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:59.800 Literally from one place to the other? Book, physically and emotionally, 68 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:06.279 that's funny. Physically it was the subway, you know, we lived on 69 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:11.480 the subway. I was born and beds Side, which I talked about a 70 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:14.959 bit in the village. I lived there for eleven years. Uh. It 71 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:19.639 was a It was very in retrospect, it was a very interesting neighborhood because 72 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:26.639 it was ethnically very mixed. It was a neighborhood and change. Um it 73 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:30.519 had been partly Jewish. I could you know, I could lived in by 74 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:36.120 Jews. UM. A lot of black people were moving in. UM, 75 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:40.879 A lot of Puerto Rican people were moving in at that time. When you 76 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:46.399 talked about Latinos, you really were talking about people who moved to New York 77 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:51.519 from from Puerto Rico. There was some Romanies and who lived in stores around 78 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:57.439 the corner for me and um, we all got along. You know. 79 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:01.680 It was it was heavily Irish, it was bie Italian. Uh. And 80 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:10.160 in retrospect it was kind of a I'm not answering your question yet. Continue. 81 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:14.959 Yeah, in retrospect it was very interesting because the kids all got along. 82 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:19.399 Um, there were no problems in school. We liked each other, 83 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:27.199 we played together, we did whatever kids did together. After school, both 84 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:35.120 kids separated into their own ethnic groups. They went back home and they played 85 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:43.360 with the kids who were like them. Um. And that's always that's always 86 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.680 been, you know, a kind of striking thing to me. When I 87 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:55.279 was eleven, we moved to Flatbush, which I think you know, and 88 00:06:55.720 --> 00:07:00.319 Um, I was on I went. I was in Tuning High scho school. 89 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.120 I had been skipped and I was in what was called the SP of 90 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:11.160 the Special Progress class. We did three years in two and then I went 91 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:15.399 to Lafayette High School. I was on the edge of the Lafayette High School 92 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:24.519 district a block away, and I would have gone to Movewood And I did 93 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:28.040 not have a lot of friends in high school. When I was in high 94 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:35.519 school, I was five eleven. I was chubby this summer and I just 95 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:43.319 always felt different from the other kids, And looking back, I think part 96 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:46.720 of it might have been that I was skipped two years and I was two 97 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:49.120 years younger than everybody else school or at that age. That presents its own 98 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:53.639 difficulties, forgive me, but continued. Yeah, I always thought that was 99 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:56.879 a good thing. And about eight years ago, ten years ago, one 100 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:00.839 day I said to myself, she was maybe it wasn't such a good thing. 101 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:05.879 You know, the age difference did make a difference. We were in 102 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:11.879 the same classes, we were in the same programs, but they hit two 103 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:16.240 more years than I did. And I think all the things that the psychologists 104 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:24.240 say about growing up may be true and relevant. H the summer I was 105 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:28.720 fifteen, my fifteenth summer I was. It was the end of my junior 106 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:33.879 year in high school. The way went away. It just disappeared. I 107 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.879 have no idea where it went, but it ran away from me and I 108 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:43.799 emerged with a body, and um I started having a bit more of a 109 00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:50.399 social life. But my best my best friend in high school was a guy 110 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.480 named Stu Ritterman, And it was Stu who took me to the village. 111 00:08:54.919 --> 00:09:01.879 Okay, old were you do you recall old you were at you were fifteen 112 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:05.080 that at that time fifteen, okay, I was in my junior year in 113 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:09.279 college. Uh And basically, you know, a lot of what we went 114 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:16.080 to were things like, um, there was a poet named Ted Jones who 115 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:22.240 later was one of the poets who read at the gas Light, and he 116 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:26.679 threw rent parties on the Bowery. I didn't know exactly what they were. 117 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:30.720 I didn't realize they were a commercial way of playing his rent, paying his 118 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:37.039 rent. But Stu took me there. We went to those. We went 119 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:43.240 to Washington Square during the summer occasionally, and that was really my introduction to 120 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:48.360 the village. What what were you expecting? Did you have any expectations at 121 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:52.480 that time as a fifteen year old girl in Brooklyn? Because I said, 122 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:56.320 as I mentioned, I started, and you should give us a year too, 123 00:09:56.399 --> 00:09:58.960 because I'm a little bit later in the story. So they were thinking, 124 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:03.200 has already written it, had already been mythologized to a great deal. 125 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:07.200 Had it been so yet? For you at that point in your life, 126 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:13.399 was there any fascination or you just kind of went because this young man took 127 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:18.519 you there. Did you have a fascination beyond that? I'm embarrassed to say 128 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:24.000 that I didn't, that's favorite. This was nineteen fifty four, okay, 129 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:31.039 so I think before I graduated from high school and June fifty bove so uh 130 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:39.679 no, No, But there was another piece that was going on. I 131 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:46.919 was in school during the height of the McCarthy period, when the House on 132 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:52.559 American Activities Committee was created. Sure so called McCarthy is m etc. Sure, 133 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:58.159 well, McCarthy and um they saw a communists crawling out of every mousehole 134 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:05.440 and you know, in the floor and subpoena at people and put people in 135 00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:13.679 jail for refusing to talk about their political activities. Somehow I had become very 136 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:20.360 interested in that and horrified by it. And I was reading up in Sinclair. 137 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:31.919 I was reading Johntos Passos, I was reading Leftish labor books. And 138 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:37.559 I'm not exactly sure how I related that to the village, but I did. 139 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:43.799 To me, the village represented a place in which that kind of thing 140 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:52.519 didn't happen, and later on I'll talk about that later if you want. 141 00:11:52.600 --> 00:12:01.519 I wound up in socialist organizations that were part of the old Left, and 142 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:07.600 their offices were all in the village, So it kind of a kind of 143 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:15.200 came together for me in a very unexpected, unusual way. I mean, 144 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:20.120 I didn't go there because I wanted the folk music. I didn't know anything 145 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.799 about folk music when I was talk about that. I eventually get to that 146 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.679 too, but people, but just just before that, was there an epiphany? 147 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:31.240 Was there a single moment where you said, this is where I need 148 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.759 to be. And then the reason I ask, because that can happen at 149 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:37.120 a time that I live in a small Hudson River town, you know, 150 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.360 because you're not far away, Niac, and I did kind of have an 151 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:46.879 epiphany like that at one point where when I say, it just struck me 152 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:48.240 as I have to be here, this is where I want to be, 153 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.480 This is where I need to be. So I had that epiphany moment. 154 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:56.080 Can you say that? Can you point that to any particular moment in the 155 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.720 village. If I could, it would have come later. It would have 156 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:07.799 come when I was in college and part of the folk music scene, you 157 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:11.840 know, and part of that world and part of the socialist world. And 158 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:13.799 I mean, I can't say that one day I looked around and said, 159 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:18.200 oh, this is where I want to be. It was sort of a 160 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:24.279 gradual taking for granted almost that this was where I was going to wind up. 161 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:30.000 So when did you finally make the film move where you became a Denis 162 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:33.399 and a citizen, if you will, of the village. When did you 163 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.639 actually make the move where you left Brooklyn for two weeks after I graduated from 164 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:43.919 college. Okay, Dave and I moved in. Dave en Rond and I 165 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:48.720 moved in together. It wasn't exactly the village. It was a fifth floor 166 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:54.159 walk up in Chelsea, which was not Chelsea, the glamorous place at that 167 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:56.759 time. It was just another neighborhood. It was a little bit north of 168 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:03.879 the village. Uh. We had decided we were going to live together, 169 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:09.240 and um, some friends were vacating an apartment, me to go to the 170 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.879 apartment. And it was close enough to the village that, of course, 171 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:20.039 certainly closer than I was in Fort Lee, New Jersey. Is one block 172 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:24.720 north of fourteenth, which is considered said at the north end of the courage. 173 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:26.759 I mean, I was, you know, I was there, even 174 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:33.200 I knew that geographically. And you mentioned Dave and rock and his name is 175 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:37.200 included in the in the title. Uh. And he certainly a giant in 176 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:43.879 the in the folk music scene, a legendary figure how did that all come 177 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.080 about? Did Dave come before the folks scene? Did folks scene come and 178 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:50.639 then Dave? And then we got to bring it to Bob Dylan. We've 179 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.000 got to continue to give people context within the book and your life in the 180 00:14:54.120 --> 00:15:01.120 village. So let me simplify it. What came first day or the music. 181 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:05.879 I'm going to back up a little bit. Okay, please please take 182 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:13.360 us there, please. What really got me hanging around the village was going 183 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:24.240 to socialist meetings. I was interested in. My motto I do talk about 184 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.840 this in the book has always been that every person in the world should have 185 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:39.679 food, shelter, healthcare, education. And I did not see that happening. 186 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:45.120 And I won't go through the whole thing, but I was part of 187 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:52.000 a in college, I became part of a group that was part of what 188 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:56.600 was called the left wing of the Democratic Party. And then I was sort 189 00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:06.720 of recruited into, but never joined, a socialist organization UM and the office 190 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:11.159 officers were in fourteenth Street. I found myself going to fourteenth Street to meetings 191 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:18.279 every Friday night, and that really took me into the village. So it 192 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:27.279 was it was that really was my route in. And then in nineteen fifty 193 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:34.679 and I I was introduced to the folk music actually more through the Union songs 194 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:42.279 and labor songs and I w W songs. Um that sounded so exciting and 195 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:48.919 class conscious. You know, most inactiably linked folk music and protest music in 196 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:55.240 my mind certainly, yes, most be dreadful, but it sounded great, 197 00:16:55.480 --> 00:17:00.240 you know. I was by then, I was about seventeen, and um, 198 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.839 uh that was you know, That's how That's how I moved towards folk 199 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:14.200 music. M My sister was at Brandeis University. She gave me folks say 200 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:21.759 albums ten inch albums that I still have of people like Woody and Woody got 201 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:26.319 three and sisterly Houston and lead Billy. But they were I thought they were 202 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:33.759 great. H That was kind of my entry into the into the folk music 203 00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:38.440 scene. Uh Dave. I met at a party. I was at a 204 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:45.559 party up in one of those huge riverside drive apartments that existed then that people 205 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:53.240 could live in um without paying five million dollars a month, ten rooms, 206 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:59.240 twelve rooms, a kitchen so big you could put five of my kitchens into 207 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:06.839 it. It was thrown by science fiction fan people. There were people who 208 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:14.640 were science fiction aficionados. They put out fan magazines, they socialized. It 209 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:21.680 was a very very specific world dedicated to science fiction. I have no idea 210 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:25.319 how I wound up at a party of there at all. It must have 211 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:27.799 been, you know, but there were ties as some of the science fiction 212 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:33.279 people who were interested in left me in music were interested in socialism. It 213 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.920 was a teeny little world at that time, and everybody was kind of linked 214 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:44.400 in one way or another. So I was at this party and some guy 215 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:48.160 was sitting and driving me crazy, trying to urge me to go into a 216 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:53.000 bedroom. And I don't remember how, but I knew that he wasn't trying 217 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:57.759 to have sex with me. He was trying to get me to smoke marijuana. 218 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:04.799 And to me, marijuana was that evil stuff that grew in the fields 219 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:11.799 across from Lafayette High School in Brooklyn, and I mean it was just no, 220 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:14.119 no, no, no, I don't do this kind of thing. 221 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:18.400 And I remember this was nineteen fifty six, Yes, sure, serious repercussions 222 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:23.559 at that time of court. Sure, yeah, yeah. And some tall, 223 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:30.640 skinny guy came over and started talking to us, and eventually he threw 224 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:34.200 he shoved off the young man who was trying to get me to smoke grass. 225 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:42.359 And it was Dave and we talked all night and then I ran into 226 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.640 him. We didn't We didn't see each other again, though. I ran 227 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:51.200 into him a few months later in the Figure, which was a coffeehouse on 228 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:56.000 the corner of Bleaker and Emma Dugal. I remember it, sure, I 229 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.119 remember it well. Everybody hung out. Yes, it was one of my 230 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:03.640 places. And I went because I entered so much about what ye maybe I 231 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:10.680 saw you. I was not at that point, the police continue. I 232 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:15.440 didn't mean to interrupt anyway, I ran into him. Um. It was 233 00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:22.799 full, and obviously there was some friends from college who who were a lot 234 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:29.480 older than me and had graduated. We're in graduated school. And I remember 235 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:32.920 one of them was sitting there trying to plan how he was going to start 236 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:37.240 his class at NYU the next morning. What was he going to do? 237 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:40.319 It was a little late to plant, you know, actually, I mean 238 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:45.119 it was twelve hours away from the actual class. But Dave was sitting at 239 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:51.799 another table and we got to talking again, and he took me all the 240 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:56.279 held way home to Brooklyn, which was an hour trip getting to the subway, 241 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.279 and you know, he took me to my house. It was nine 242 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:06.039 blocks or eight blocks from the subway, and we started we started to see 243 00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:11.279 each other and then you you don't have to again, I'm not prying. 244 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.079 Personally, you became husbanding life for a while for a time, but also 245 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:22.319 professionally. You managed him as a singer, and people who were familiar with 246 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.000 the folk scene would know the name. And that's an interesting thing beyond that 247 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:30.680 genre. Very few these days, you know, many of the great folk 248 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:33.960 people, of which Van Ronk was one. But how did you go from 249 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:44.759 protest sympathizing and music management. You actually managed him as a singer, would 250 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.319 help him to book gigs in the village, et cetera. How did that 251 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:55.200 transition happen? Well, we moved in together and maybe we might have been 252 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:59.880 July d July in nineteen fifty nine, a few weeks after I graduated from 253 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:03.839 college, which and it was because I was at Brooklyn College that I was 254 00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:07.480 able to go to all the socialist meetings. I did not go to an 255 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.279 out of town college, I you know, I went to Brooklyn, which 256 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:21.920 was a great place in at that time. Yes, killerschool as a management 257 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:29.119 when I graduated from college, there was no way for folks singer to make 258 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:33.960 a living in New York, just none and Daven only wanted to live together, 259 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:37.880 so I christioned a teacher's license. I did not want to be a 260 00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.400 teacher, but I figured I could do that until he was able to make 261 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:48.079 a living. And we wound up living in Chelsea, and I wound up 262 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.599 teaching in a high school in Chelsea. About a year and a half later, 263 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:57.519 day start, which is a whole other story. I love teachers stories 264 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.160 back. Don't worry, we got a stories to talk about it now. 265 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:08.480 About a year and a half later, folk music clubs started to open up 266 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:15.440 and Dave was able to get work, and I went to graduate school. 267 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:23.039 I wanted a PhD. I wanted to major in American American studies. I 268 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:30.200 couldn't find a program in New York that did American studies, and I wound 269 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:34.720 up in grad school at City College, in majoring and political science, which 270 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:41.680 I hated. I thought it was just like sociological studies. I had one 271 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:51.200 wonderful professor and I started. I did all my class work, and I 272 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:56.240 started to do a thesis which was supposed to be a Marxist study of one 273 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.359 of the small socialist sects, and now it moved to the right, and 274 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:08.359 I did a ton of research. Meanwhile, Dave had Dave was working and 275 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:15.559 a man from Detroit, a manager, had approached him and he had become 276 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:30.160 Dave's manager. One week, Dave was working in a club in Pennsylvania and 277 00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:37.359 not not either of the well known clubs in Philadelphia or elsewhere, and it 278 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:38.920 was a new club, and it was clear that they were going broke. 279 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:45.319 They just weren't going to make it. And I had gone there with Dave. 280 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:51.559 I traveled with him for a while the first year he worked. And 281 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:55.640 we caused his manager and he said, what should you know? What should 282 00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:00.359 he do? Um, he's going to get stuffed, And I said, 283 00:25:00.519 --> 00:25:03.519 yes, to workout contract and then maybe you can sue. Well, we 284 00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:07.480 knew there wasn't to make anybody too. They weren't get to have any money, 285 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:14.119 but Dave worse house contract and he said, I don't. And the 286 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:19.319 marriage was right legally to Dave horse House contract, and he said, um, 287 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:25.200 I'm firing him being my manager. And I would start it well, 288 00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:29.799 and it was more fun than graduate school. So I said, to it 289 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:37.279 now, and you mentioned and from that you developed a career within that business 290 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:44.200 and your book mentions Dave, Bob and Bob being Bob Dylan. Of course 291 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.319 the legend um, So how did you wind up meeting Dylan and becoming his 292 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.039 early manager? There and the and the glory days of the village. Tell 293 00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:59.599 us a little bit about that story. When when Bob came to the village, 294 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:04.400 he played a couple of basket houses, and a basket house was the 295 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:11.319 place where literally, in order for performers to get paid, waitresses past the 296 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:21.240 basket and people put in tips. Bob was in one of them. Dave 297 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.519 was down on McDougald sweet and heard him when I came home, and he 298 00:26:23.599 --> 00:26:27.480 said, you got to hear this kid. He's a genius. So I 299 00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:33.799 went down and I heard Bob, and somehow we all became friends. He 300 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:40.359 spent a lot of time in our apartment. We hung out together. When 301 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:45.079 he met Susie, she became a good friend. And Susie actually was a 302 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:56.400 good friend of mine and Dave separately until she died. And at some point 303 00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:03.200 Bob says to me, would he get me gigs? And we talked about 304 00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:08.880 it, and we kind of I never asked him to sign a contract, 305 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:15.000 but we talked about I would get him gigs. I wouldn't take any commission 306 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:23.079 until he was making enough to pay permissions and what I would then get. 307 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:33.240 And I did not try to change his music anyway. I thought that he 308 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:38.839 was going to become, quote a better musician. But the guy had a 309 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.519 such with genius. I was going to ask you about that. You sense 310 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:48.839 that you sensed that immediately. Is that a fair statement that you sensed there 311 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.400 was something extraordinary about this person. Yes, it was not a great guitarist. 312 00:27:53.440 --> 00:28:00.200 He was not a great singer, but he had an incredible memory. 313 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:07.720 He remembered what he saw, what he heard, and he listened to an 314 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:14.920 enormous amount of folk music. He had a background in rock rock music. 315 00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:18.839 I mean, that's really what he came out of, and he amalgamated it 316 00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:26.640 into He emalcimated both into his into his music. People thought he was a 317 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:33.079 Woody Guthrie imitator, which he was not. He was doing he worshiped Woody. 318 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:40.240 He was doing a lot of Woody guthrough stuff, but his InfoNation was 319 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:45.680 different, his arrangements were different. He wasn't imitating anybody word for word. 320 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:49.920 Would saw many of the young folk singers did. They wanted to sound like 321 00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:57.119 somebody, and they literally note for note, InfoNation for InfoNation, breath for 322 00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:03.599 breath. They would make believe they were somebody else. And later a lot 323 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.839 of the rock tripy bands did that and it would be crazy, frankly, 324 00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:17.680 but Bob wasn't doing that. Bob was bringing something that was his to the 325 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:23.640 music, and on stage he was very interesting. He was doing the kind 326 00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:29.960 of thing Charlie Chaplin did. He was funny. He was jerky. I 327 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.720 mean literally jerky. I don't mean foolish. I mean his emotions were. 328 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:41.400 His motions were fast, they were uneven, they weren't smooth, and everybody 329 00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:48.200 thought, or most people thought, that there was something odd about him. 330 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:59.880 We thought it was deliberate, and this was all part of Dylan developing his 331 00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.279 is very very own style. Yeah, I thought he was. I thought 332 00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:08.319 it was a genius in some ways, you know. I read good portions 333 00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:12.599 of his biography and one of the things that surprised me so much is how 334 00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:18.079 much of a family man he was, how how important his family was to 335 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:23.359 him, and often he really wanted to see himself as he wanted people to 336 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:27.960 see him. As he saw himself was as a musician. First you know, 337 00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:33.160 the voice of a generation, etc. He kind of felt, at 338 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.279 least from what I read into it, felt uncomfortable with that as a title. 339 00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:40.319 He really wanted It seemed to me he wanted to be known more is 340 00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:42.039 like, Hey, you know, I'm a guy who plays good songs, 341 00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.920 but you know, I want to be known for my music, if you 342 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.720 will, not necessarily for the message first, for the music first, wild 343 00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:56.160 would you agree with that? From from what you know of him, he 344 00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.240 wanted to be known for the music. I can't talk I cannot talk about 345 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:07.160 him as a family man because by the time he became quote a family band, 346 00:31:07.240 --> 00:31:11.319 he had moved out of out of our world. And yes, it 347 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.720 was up in Woodstock, he mentions at his time there that should be more 348 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:21.200 specific in context. Yes, um, but yes, he wanted he you 349 00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:25.680 know, he wanted he wanted to be known for his music. He wanted 350 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:29.880 to Um, he wanted to be famous, and he did. He had 351 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:38.480 he had that that lust for fame if you will. One night in Um, 352 00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:44.599 but I don't think he really I don't think he really knew what fame 353 00:31:44.839 --> 00:31:48.799 was or meant. UM. I remember one night New Year's Eve. I 354 00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:56.559 can't remember the night maybe sixty three sixty four. Um Dave and I and 355 00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:01.799 Bob and Susie his then girlfriend, Susie Roller, decided not to do anything. 356 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:05.119 We weren't going to a party. We were going to hang out at 357 00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:10.359 home. David I didn't particularly like going out New Year's Eve. It was 358 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:15.799 crowded, it was noisy. He was stupid. But at some point we 359 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:22.039 decided to go to a party uptown. And we had been in my apartment, 360 00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:28.880 Dave Dave my apartment on Unwaverley Place, and we walked over to Seventh 361 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:32.759 Avenue, seventh Avenue South looking for a taxi to get us to whatever party 362 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:37.279 we wanted to go to, and cabs wouldn't stop for us. There were 363 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.720 almost no empty cabs, and it was New Year's Eve and they were all 364 00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:45.359 occupied. Every now and then an empty cab would go pass and it would 365 00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:51.480 pass us up. We didn't know why. Maybe we were too scruffy, 366 00:32:51.599 --> 00:32:55.200 maybe we didn't look like we hadn't enough money. Maybe they just didn't want 367 00:32:55.200 --> 00:33:00.960 any passengers at that point. But I remember all running out into seventh Avenue 368 00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:07.119 the South, waving his hands and yelling, I'm Bob Dylan, pick us 369 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.920 up. You got to stop for us. I'm Bob Dylan. Someday you'll 370 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:15.000 be sorry. It was this somebody who thought he was going to be a 371 00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:22.599 a Nobel Prize winner. No, it was a kid. Bob's a little 372 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:27.839 younger than me, so he must have been twenty three of that time, 373 00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:36.119 you know, something like that. But yeah, he wanted There must be 374 00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:38.440 so many great stories in the book, Terry. So before we take a 375 00:33:38.440 --> 00:33:40.640 break, tell us about Let's bring it up now to the book. We 376 00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:44.759 got a little background. What you're a little bit about with the village was 377 00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:47.720 a little bit about and the scene at that time. Now the book. 378 00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:52.960 You decided to write a book. What gave you the impetus at this time, 379 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:57.279 at this moment to write this book. Oh my, I should say 380 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:07.119 something scipulating. I have written all since. Even even when I was in 381 00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:12.079 the folk music world, I did press releases, I did public relations for 382 00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:21.440 my performers. Later in school and after I left folk music and went to 383 00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:24.159 work in the not for profit world. I wrote, I wrote papers, 384 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:30.760 I wrote speeches. I wrote speeches for the president of Yeshiva University at some 385 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:37.239 point in the eighties. I've been involved enough for profit organizations. I write 386 00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:45.880 white papers. I write government stuff. I've never written fiction. And for 387 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:50.880 years people said to me, oh, you should write about the village, 388 00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:54.320 you should write about those days. And I kept saying, who'd read it? 389 00:34:54.519 --> 00:35:00.159 Who would care? Then Dave wrote his book and it's sold. I 390 00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:02.519 don't know how well it's old, but it's old well enough for it to 391 00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:07.000 stay in print. And everybody started writing books, and people said to me, 392 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:10.039 you should write a book, and I said, I wasn't a musician. 393 00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:15.400 Who's going to read my book? And I did a couple of test 394 00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:21.880 chapters and I took them to a writing group and people with them, and 395 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:25.280 they said, you are a very good writer. You have wonderful stories, 396 00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:32.360 but I don't feel you in that thing emotionally. And I said, I 397 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.320 can't do anything emotionally. That isn't me. I don't do that. And 398 00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:40.000 I quit. I said, what do they want me to write about? 399 00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:45.960 But I cried that I left. I really had a vision of it having 400 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:52.480 to be very explicit, and I thought I couldn't do it. People kept 401 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:59.440 saying it to me and saying it to me, And what finally kicked it 402 00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:06.320 off is a young man was writing a book about Bob Dylan in New York. 403 00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:12.079 He had written one about Dylan in London. He was doing one about 404 00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.440 Dylan in New York, and he got in touch with me and asked me 405 00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:22.400 a bunch of questions and I kept thinking, I'm not going to answer them 406 00:36:22.440 --> 00:36:27.000 because while you know, if I give away all this information and I said 407 00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:29.639 to people a lot, I mean, I always felt I was giving away 408 00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:34.920 information. I should board for my own book. And I said no. 409 00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:39.039 And then I said, Terry, you know you're being a church you're eighty 410 00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:45.960 smadives holth. Do you haven't written a book? I wrote answers to the 411 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:52.480 questions. He turned them into a chapter in his book which I ran past 412 00:36:52.559 --> 00:37:00.320 a lawyer, and it's a chapter in his book by Keith Miles Dylan in 413 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:04.960 Dylan in New York. And a few months later his publishers got in touch 414 00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:09.719 with me and said, are you writing a book? Wow? And we 415 00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:17.559 talked and they're English publishers and I like them. I felt very comfortable with 416 00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:23.679 them, and I said okay, and I started to write the book. 417 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:29.480 Terry, We're going to take a quick break and we talk more about the 418 00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:31.639 book. There's a festival coming up to the book release party. I want 419 00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:36.199 to talk a little bit about those dates and talks a little bit about some 420 00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:40.199 of the favorite parts that you have of the book. If you can pick 421 00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:45.920 one or two of your favorite stories beyond some of that that you shared with 422 00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:51.639 us. My guest is Terry Thal her book, My Granwich Village, Dave, 423 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:54.800 Bob and me as my guest. This is being Frank. We're the 424 00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:58.880 only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Labonna. We're 425 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:01.280 back with so much more. This is great. Right after these brief commercial 426 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:07.519 messages, please don't go anywhere yet. Hudson River Radio dot com. Bring 427 00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:10.360 a dash of green into your life. Check out the Many Shades of Green 428 00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:15.920 with Maxine, Margot, Reuben and Malcolm Berman. Get informed about environmental issues 429 00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:21.360 and current events that affect us all. Pick a shade of green and raise 430 00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:27.760 your eco consciousness with the Many Shades of Green available on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, 431 00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:34.559 Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You ought to be in movies, 432 00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:38.679 well, at least you should watch movies. The Silver Screen podcast talks 433 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:45.159 about all aspects of film and entertainment, current films, old films, how 434 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:51.039 movies are made, and interviews with moviemakers, authors and musicians too. Check 435 00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:55.519 out the silver Screen Podcast at Hudson River Radio dot com or wherever you get 436 00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:08.000 your podcasts and go watch a movie Hudson River Radio dot com. Welcome back 437 00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:13.239 to Being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your 438 00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:15.719 host, Frank Lebono. You know you can catch us wherever you get to 439 00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:21.679 your podcast. We stream virtually all the time. All our shows are archives, 440 00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:25.199 so you can catch any Being Frank virtually anytime you want, on virtually 441 00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:30.679 any podcasting platform that you might have. We got a great show. We're 442 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:35.440 continuing. My guest is Terry Thal. She wrote a book about the folk 443 00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:39.960 scenes glory days in the nineteen sixties. It's called My Greenwich Village. Dave, 444 00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:45.480 Bob and me Terry. Before the Break we started to getting more into 445 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:49.159 the book and I want to talk about it in a little bit more detail. 446 00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:53.280 Obviously, there are many stories. You shared some of them with us 447 00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:58.159 before the break. Do you have a favorite story in the book, that 448 00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:01.840 one that stands out in your mind that you would like to mostly to share 449 00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:06.400 with people, or any favorite stories you can even do more than one. 450 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.760 Is there something that sticks out in your mind that you would really like to 451 00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:14.159 share with people. That kind of is emblematic of what the book is about. 452 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:21.960 I'm going to do one that isn't exactly a story, but the the 453 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:28.880 photograph on the cover of the book is of Dave and Bob and me walking 454 00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:36.440 down the street. And that's a funny story because it is apparently a very 455 00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:42.079 very well known picture. It was taken by a photographer named Jim Marshall who 456 00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:49.679 became a major rock photographer. And what happened was Dave and I and Bob 457 00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:53.920 and Susie went out for breakfast one morning or late one morning, or it 458 00:40:54.000 --> 00:41:00.440 might have been one afternoon or whenever we got We all got up and I 459 00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:08.280 vaguely remember, only vaguely, that Jim was doing a photo session of Bob, 460 00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:15.440 but he did a photo session of the four of us walking west in 461 00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:22.320 the village, walking a Hudson street, going back, walking down Washington, 462 00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.800 I'm sorry, seventh even in the south, and he was with us all 463 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:30.159 the way shooting pictures, and at some point the young woman joined us. 464 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:35.239 I have no idea who she was. Nobody ever knew who she was, 465 00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:42.000 and later people said they thought she was Karen Dulton, who she wasn't but 466 00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:44.840 we were polite, we were young, we were friendly, and we didn't 467 00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:50.440 tell her to go away. So that was that, and the photo session 468 00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:55.800 ended and I forgot about it totally. Years and years later, maybe within 469 00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:05.960 the past ten years, I learned that the photographs from that session were online 470 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:13.039 on Facebook. They are all over the place. People have traced every step 471 00:42:13.159 --> 00:42:20.239 we took. They've identified the stores we passed, they've identified cars that we 472 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:23.760 passed, what year it was, what week it was, what address we 473 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:29.360 were at. I mean, I don't remember any of this, but people 474 00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:32.199 and I don't understand it. I really do not understand this kind of thing. 475 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:39.199 But it's been traced. The picture. So there is a picture of 476 00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:44.840 Dave and Bob and Susie and me. Susie and I were behind the guys, 477 00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:49.280 we were talking to one another, and it is what is called, 478 00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:53.119 quote an iconic photograph. I hate the word iconic, I truly hate it, 479 00:42:53.159 --> 00:43:01.440 but that's what it's called. And when we were talking about book covers, 480 00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:07.199 my publisher wanted to do a montage of pictures and they wanted to use 481 00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:13.800 that as one of them, and I actually had a pay to use a 482 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:22.639 picture of myself. That's great. So we managed to get I managed to 483 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:28.239 get the somebody managed to get the price down, and I did. And 484 00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:31.239 when they decided not to use the montage but just to use one picture, 485 00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:37.719 they chose that picture. And I had some reservations about it because I am 486 00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:45.440 walking behind that I noticed my pants were a little too short, because I 487 00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:50.039 love it, and I couldn't get pants long enough to go all the way 488 00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:53.320 down to the crops of my shoes, which I've always been a little manic 489 00:43:53.360 --> 00:44:00.719 about. Um, Susie got cropped out because the picture would not have fit 490 00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:09.719 properly if four people were in it, and that wound up as the cover 491 00:44:10.360 --> 00:44:16.639 the cover of the of the book, the book My Dreads Village, Dave, 492 00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:21.440 Bob and Me by Terry Thal Terry, what do you What do you 493 00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:23.920 hope people take from the book after they've done reading it? What what do 494 00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:30.639 you hope to have accomplished? You know, I can't say anything grand like 495 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:36.840 I want them to understand the relationship between the music and the politics, because 496 00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:40.280 I don't really go into that. I was not writing a theoretical book. 497 00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:45.760 I was writing a book about my life in the village, and one of 498 00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:49.719 the things that you know. There's a couple of things. One of them 499 00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:54.079 is that I hope that people could see that you can be a woman, 500 00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:58.400 you can live with people, you can be married to people, and you 501 00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:02.920 can live your own life. Uh. Even though Dave and I were worked 502 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.960 together, which probably was not the best idea in the world. Um, 503 00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:13.840 and stay very very good friends until he died. Even though we separated. 504 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.760 You and I have talked about that, you know, we had no reason 505 00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:24.039 not to be um. Uh. That and I had a great life after 506 00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:30.920 working enough for not for profit organizations. UM. I hope that they take 507 00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:37.639 that, they take that you don't have to suffer, you don't have to 508 00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:45.920 be um um a victim, that you can you can do what you choose 509 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:51.880 to do and make it happen and be very happy. And uh. Uh 510 00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:53.599 that that's one of the story. You know. That's one of the things 511 00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:59.039 that I hope people see. The other is uh the other, and I'm 512 00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:04.760 going to link it to the movie Inside Lewen Davis. The village and the 513 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:13.599 folk music scene and even its ties to the left wing organizations. It was 514 00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:19.880 a great world. The village. The folk music world was exciting, It 515 00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:27.960 was vibrant, we heard really good music. We heard great music. People 516 00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:34.800 like John Hurt, Reverend Gary Davis, people I still listened to, were 517 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:40.119 phenomenal musicians. I mean, they weren't folksingers who came out of the back 518 00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:47.280 hill someplace and could do three notes on a guitar. They were astounding musicians. 519 00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:55.960 And they became and I became part of a really supportive scene. People 520 00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:00.719 liked one another, people were friendly. We didn't all hang out in the 521 00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:06.119 same places all the time. There were different worlds. There were people who 522 00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:08.920 hung out at Alan Block sandal shop. There were people who hung hung out 523 00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:15.000 in my apartment, which turned into almost the hotel. I mean, I 524 00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:21.440 remember having twelve people there. David and I had invited nobody, and they 525 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:24.239 came and they stayed at dinner, and that wasn't unusual. One night, 526 00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:28.840 we were so many people there. We looked at each other at some point 527 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:30.400 and said, we didn't invite anybody. Who went off to the movies and 528 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:36.840 left everybody. I do not remember whether they were there when we got home. 529 00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:42.239 I you know, I don't know, but it was. It was 530 00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:47.920 a supportive world. If people discovered an out of town club, they told 531 00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:53.400 everybody about it. They recommended not just their friends, but people they quote 532 00:47:53.440 --> 00:48:02.480 with good musicians to the club. There was no fighting great The book My 533 00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:07.719 Grantich Village, Dave, Bob and Me by Terry Thal Terry, Now, 534 00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:12.119 I understand the book is available for pre order. Now, how can people 535 00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:15.639 get the book? And I understand there's a good, big book launch coming 536 00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:17.480 up in September, and I know you've got to get your notes to be 537 00:48:17.559 --> 00:48:21.639 able to do that because there's a lot to go on. So first, 538 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.079 can people get the book now? They can get the book now. It's 539 00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:30.519 for sale on presale on Amazon. If you order it now, you will 540 00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:35.639 get it. I forget the exact day. Amazon keeps changing the date that 541 00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:40.079 it's coming out on, but it's coming out in early early October. So 542 00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:43.880 if you pre order it now, you can get an Amazon. You can 543 00:48:43.960 --> 00:48:47.920 get it on the Barnes and Noble website. And there's a third website for 544 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:52.480 people who hate the big companies, but I can't remember what it is, 545 00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:57.239 Okay, now tell us about that. There's also a launch party that's also 546 00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:00.320 involved with activities in the village. Sounds like a great time. You can 547 00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:02.800 tell us a little bit about what that's about. That's coming in September. 548 00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:07.960 I think this is really this piece is really exciting and I am thrilled to 549 00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:13.079 be part of it. Several years ago, two people, a woman who 550 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:17.199 lives in London who edited a book Robert Shelton who used to be a New 551 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:23.039 York Times review who wrote about Dylan, and a man who lives in the 552 00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:32.159 village organized the thing called the Village Scrip and they host and promote and produce 553 00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:39.440 an incredible number of events over a period of two weeks in the village in 554 00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:52.119 September, and they invited me to introduce my book at an event there and 555 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:58.559 to accompany, to accompany me or to do better than me, whichever. 556 00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:07.400 We've been listed to folksingers who were around at that time, and there ain't 557 00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:13.400 that many of us left, so that I will be there with talking with 558 00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:20.079 and people can listen to Tom Paxton A Happy Town Wow, And I'm really 559 00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:24.039 really excited about that. That's going to be on September twelfth. It will 560 00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:30.480 be a bitter end on Bleepot Street still there after all. Then there it 561 00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:35.840 Ends is one of the clubs I write about in the book. It was 562 00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:42.960 a really exciting place and it's the only performance site that still exists. Yeah, 563 00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:45.920 from a lot of them. I remember Kenny's Castaways in the back Fence, 564 00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:51.119 and so many and then so virtually all of them come and gone except 565 00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:57.840 for that. Well, terrific tickets. If people are interested, google the 566 00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:02.679 Village Trip, the Village Trip, okay, the Village Trip three words, 567 00:51:02.760 --> 00:51:08.360 and when you get to the site, you can choose a number of different 568 00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:15.880 places to go. Click on musical events and you will see an incredible, 569 00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:22.159 incredible array of different musical events you can go to. But go down to 570 00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:35.239 number twelve and number twelve is the concert and my talk and it's on Tuesday, 571 00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:40.119 September twelfth, and click on that and you can buy tickets. Great 572 00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:45.239 Terry, we come back again before the book has launched, and maybe even 573 00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:47.920 before the big festival and share more stories with us. They have been great. 574 00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:52.440 This is terrific. I would love to I would also love to urge 575 00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:59.880 people to look at all the musical offerings and other events the Village tripments do. 576 00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:07.639 It is amazing. I am awestruck. I really am at what um 577 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:12.480 Liz and Cliff have been able to do pulling this together. I mean, 578 00:52:12.760 --> 00:52:22.760 they have our full stories of contemporary musical events um that are just amazing events 579 00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:34.599 by h M. Minimalist composers, um oratorios. It's it's it's it's just 580 00:52:34.760 --> 00:52:37.440 great. And that begins with the twelfth of September. You said the week 581 00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:42.840 of the Did I get that correctly? It starts on the tenth, the 582 00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:45.519 tenth, okay, so let's correct that. So September tenth my concert, 583 00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:50.119 my event is the twelfth, twelfth, Okay, So I got that straight. 584 00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:52.639 So it starts a tenth years on the twelfth. Just about at a 585 00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:58.280 time, I want to again mention the book my Greenwich village, Dave, 586 00:52:58.360 --> 00:53:00.639 Bob and me. I want to thank you for being here, for your 587 00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:05.679 intelligent conversation. As they said, so much fun, great stories, and 588 00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:08.920 you'll please come back once again to being Frank. I would absolutely Adris thank 589 00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:14.239 you for having me well. It is our pleasure. And of course we 590 00:53:14.280 --> 00:53:20.519 always think that man, mister Nichil Richter. Yeah, he's looking. You 591 00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:22.920 can't we can see him. You can't what you're You're lucky you can't see 592 00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:28.440 him. We can, but we always thank him for doing such a great 593 00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:31.960 job keeping us going and keeping us streaming. Of course, we offer special 594 00:53:32.000 --> 00:53:36.679 thanks to our listeners who take time to give us a voice in their lives. 595 00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:39.320 And remember we offer a fresh topic every week. You can catch us 596 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:45.960 wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts like Apple, Spotify, our radio 597 00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:50.480 speaker, and more. Remember we have a Facebook page. We also have 598 00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:54.360 a website, Hudson River Radio dot com where you can catch all the terrific 599 00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:58.599 shows that we stream from there. And of course I always leave you with 600 00:53:58.599 --> 00:54:01.440 two little nuggets as I like to call him. And since Bob Dylan was 601 00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:06.440 part of our conversation, let's get a little something from like a rolling stone 602 00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:09.239 when he said, when you got nothing, you got nothing to lose. 603 00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:15.079 Simple enough, And we got some great music. It's a new release from 604 00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:20.719 the rock and Ruse Brothers, Billy It's Stephen Ruse. Let's go find Johnny. 605 00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:22.880 It's a kick ass tune. I think you'll enjoy it. I'm your 606 00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:27.920 host, Frank Lebono. Thank you for being Frank with us. We'll see 607 00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:45.199 you next time. Green Up came them on. Don't get down. Look 608 00:54:45.320 --> 00:54:52.880 good friend Nigel around. I'm about being fasier and I want to talk about 609 00:54:53.239 --> 00:55:02.800 you. Oh my god, you let go, my got let go, 610 00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:09.039 got it. Let's go n got it, Yeah, takeing, go down, 611 00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:52.239 h run down bloom friend and got it, got it home, bringing 612 00:55:52.280 --> 00:56:00.480 out most out she could walk out n my mind and don't find me round 613 00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:45.679 somewhere with my favorite shake monda for you go your nan gonna let you don't 614 00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:51.039 want to hand of the worm, shake a mind, I like the can't 615 00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:58.840 let you save love a god dude, then don't I don't go if you 616 00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:02.320 want to hit him blue. Let's go, my god, my god it 617 00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:10.719 go, my got it. Let's go, my god it say to let 618 00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:20.559 go got it. Let's go, my god, let go. Yeah, 619 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:49.639 you go tell them when I'm go, look for my time, go my 620 00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:54.599 collar, let go, my got it come, Let's go my god it 621 00:57:57.840 --> 00:58:30.800 shake them up, alright, go. This is Hudson River Radio dot com