What's up y'all is Drewski and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce a
hilarious new basketball podcast called The Due Zone with Drewski. Learn the backstories of
your favorite balls and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a favorite
team? Wasn't the Raptors at the time? Or no, was the Raptors
even started on the topic? Come on broide like I'm fifty, Taylor Rogues,
Asian Wilson and any more. You won't want to miss this. Listen
to The Due Zone with Drewski on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever you
listen to podcasts. Hey there we have. Blue Wire wanted to thank you
for your continued support of this podcast. With over ninety podcasts across our network,
we are committed to bringing you great content to fill that sports shaped hole
in your heart. To find more Blue Wire Pods, search for us on
iTunes or check out blue Wire Pods dot com. And remember, one day
sports will return and it will be glorious. Thanks for listening onto the show.
What is krack lackin Hardwood Knox listeners, I am Dan Pavalley coming at
you once again without Andrew D. Bailly. I am, however, as
usual as ever, super excited to be joined by founder and editor in chief
of NBA Math plus an editor for Bleacher Report, Adam Frammel. We are
going to continue our decade player ranking series that we've been rolling through. We
are onto the dever nuggets before we get started, just the usual housekeeping notes.
Please remember to continue rating, reviewing, and subscribing to us on iTunes,
especially if you've enjoyed this series, or are just checking us out because
you want to see where your team falls and how their players shake out in
this exercise, or if you just want to hear my MacBook give me I
message alerts. We appreciate any ratings, reviews, and subscriptions that we get
as the result of this, Please keep them going. We can also be
found wherever else you consume your podcast, be it Stitcher, Spotify, Google
play, whatever, Follow us on Twitter at Hardwood Knox. You can also
and should also subscribe to our YouTube channel. Go to YouTube dot com search
Hardwood Knox. Just subscribe to us. Like our videos. There is a
playlist with all of our decade player ranking rankings on there. There's also a
landing page on the NBA Math website, so check that out as well.
All these team player rankings in one convenient location. Last, but certainly not
least, or actually second to last, but certainly not least. Shout out
to our sponsor for making this podcast possible. Like always, bet online dot
ag be on the lookout for their promo code coming to you shortly, and
we thank them as always. And finally, I'd meant to do this on
one of the previous podcasts that we recorded, but I forgot. Just wanted
to give a shout out to anyone who was impacted by the furloughs or layoffs
at Vox Media. It's a shitty time for everyone. The media industry has
been hitting hard, but specifically over at SP Nation. There are some of
the most creative writers out there in the sports world, and it stucks to
see so many of them being furloughed or or laid off. I hope that
they're able to go back to Espnation once this is all over, if it's
ever all over, or that they land into better gigs with companies that appreciate
them more than then Vox Media. And also condolences to Karl Anthony Towns and
his family because his mother passed away from COVID. That was something else that
I meant to mention on the previous podcast. We're just playing catch up there
and sending good vibes his way and his family's way as well. Deep breath,
Adam, how are you doing? I told you I wasn't going to
ask you how you were doing this podcast, but here I am caring about
your well being. How are you doing? I appreciate that I'm pretty well,
and you know, there's just there's one thing that's bugging me, and
it's that you have these two adorable puppies, Wade and Thor, and I
don't get enough pictures of them, and I definitely don't think that the Hardwood
Knox accounts has sent enough pictures of them. I feel like we need to
make them them Internet famous here because they're a door and my life would be
better if if they were in it more. You just need to message them
and tell them to sit still for long enough to have said photos taken.
And I also blame you for allowing me to get two puppies. This was
that was like pandemic brain where I was just like, I need more joining
my life. We're already getting one. Let's just get to and they're adorable,
but they're also hell raisers, and I am tired. Respect to anyone
who has actual human being children and still finds a way to get stuff done
because I'm overmatched. It's me versus two puppies, one of whom is sleeping
right next to me as we record this. You saw him before before he
was sleeping. I me versus two puppies that I'm losing. I don't know
how you have you have a kid, you have Davy. I don't know
how people have multiple kids and get stuff done. I don't know how they
do it. Respect to them, it's it's a struggle every day. But
yeah, the puppies are always going to win. Just you might as well
accept that now. I just puppies. The puppies are going to make the
All Decade team before you do. That's I just look. As long as
I get to sleep at some point, they can make whatever team you want
them to. We do have a Denver Nuggets All Decade well it's not in
All Decade team. The top ten players of the decade for the Denver Nuggets.
Thank you to everyone who voted on their top ten Nuggets of the decade,
I say, we get right into it. We had a tie for
tenth place in Denver. A lot of tough options here. Who did we
end up with in the composite rankings at him? Yeah, this was an
interesting one just because it felt like, for the first time with any of
the franchises we've covered thus far, that there was a plethora of options that
were actually compelling ones for those those down ballot spots. So we did have
a two way tie between Carmelo Anthony and Arona Flllow. We both had a
Flallow in our tenth spot. The fan vote did not have him in the
top ten. It did have Carmelo Anthony at number nine, which is why
he got in on the composite grades even though neither of us had him.
I think the reason we didn't is pretty obvious here. It's that we're only
looking at twenty ten, eleven through the present day, which means that we
only get fifty games of Mellow in a Nuggets uniform before he was sent to
the New York Knicks and that blockbuster trade that brought back to Nil Gallanari,
among others. So it was it was just far too small a sample.
Even though he played pretty effective basketball during that fifty game stretch. Was obviously
stolen his prime as a twenty six year old, But for me, a
Flollow, who just spent significantly more time in a Nuggets uniform was the obvious
choice over him. Yeah, do you remember lockout season? Aaron Afollow just
an absolute offensive monster, and he had a good year after that, but
he was with the Magic for it. He was the centerpiece of the twenty
twelve Dwhite Howard Andrew Binham trade and Idolatry. I think we can all agree
Aaron was the centerpiece of that without question. Yeah, just a solid for
those three seasons, and again two of them were with the Magic. But
just this really solid, high value bucket getter, hitting a with the exception.
Looking at the Denver seasons specifically, he does have three seasons that fall
under this purview. But twenty eleven twenty twelve, hits fifty percent of his
twos, shoots almost forty percent from three averages over fifteen points per game.
A nice little secondary playmaker, and there were just in those post mellow days,
those immediate post mellow days, like there were just stretches where he had
to be for certain lineup to the primary scorer, and I won't say it
was you know, always generated the prettiest results, but he was someone who
could who could do it like sort of like that boyon Bogdanovich, guy who's
definitely had a more sustained peak when you look at his career and is probably
the better player overall. But it was just someone that you could rely on
who wasn't a star, who really probably shouldn't even have been a number two
on a really good team, but he could get you buckets off the catch
and get you buckets in the post just from scratch in general. And I'm
happy that the fans appreciated him just about or no, I'm happy that you
appreciated him instead of the fans as much as I did for this ranking.
Right. Yeah, He's definitely not somebody that you ever really wanted to be
a star, but you could kind of pigeonhole him into that role and live
with the results. Like a capable, maybe not an exceptional three level scorer,
a guy who can get buck it's from the mid range, who can
who can shoot threes, who can create from self, who can play off
the ball, never at a very high level, but he did it well
enough to get a shout out from Kendrick Lamar, and I think that matters
more than anything else here. Honestly, we need to bump him up five
spots for that probably at least yeah, at least a Mellow for me,
by the way, just didn't make the cut fifty games. It's just nothing
yet. He wasn't even close for me. It feels like for the fans,
it was just a matter of if you know, Melo played for them
and was really good in this decade, and so we have to throw his
name in there. I think it's it's sometimes hard without like really pouring over
the archives and stuff to to remember exactly when players changed hands and whether they
had three seasons within the cutoff or two seasons or in this case, fifty
games. So I'll excuse it because he did at least play for the Nuggets
during this decade, unlike Alan Iverson, who did get one sixth place vote
despite retiring before the start of the decade. Or let's maybe this is Galaxy
brain thinking here, but our fans just net level smarter than us, and
they're rewarding Mellow for the return that he got them in the trade, where
he forces the Knicks. I think about how many players are on this list
as the direct result of this trade that we're going to get to in a
few moments, right, I mean without Mellow asking for that trade and getting
it, they don't get your kitch down the road. Yeah, that's so
you can connect all of the dots back to Mellow. Really he was snubbed
then. I don't know what we were thinking. Yeah, we should have
had him much higher. Who is at number nine? At number nine,
we have a current Denver nugget, and that is Paul Millsap, who was
a big free agent addition for the Nuggets back in twenty seventeen. He's been
there for free agent addition in franchise history. I would probably say so,
Yeah, I think I mean a four time All Star still in his early
thirties, as kind of like what was intended to be that finishing touch on
a contending piece on a contending puzzle. I think he probably was. I
would agree with you. I was always just curious. Yeah, and you
know, he's been here for two seasons and change. I say here because
I'm in Denver, so I'm allowed to say that. I realized that was
a little bit of a slip, but uh, you know, another guy
like much like a fallow where he doesn't necessarily like stand out in any one
area at this stage of his career, the stage that's been spent in Denver,
but like an exceptional defender, a guy who still gets countless defenders to
bite for his pump fake and is able to score from all over the court,
a guy who can capably serve as more of a tertiary playmaker when when
sets break down in the half court. Is he an All star anymore?
No? Is he a defensive Player of the Year candidate anymore? Not really,
but like just good in all areas and just with the exception of probably
the beginning of his time and in Denver, and in that first season he
ends up missing most of the year too, so that's definitely a part of
it. There was times where he felt like he deviated from the offense to
look for his own shots. Maybe that's just the byproduct of not having enough
reps because of all the time he missed, or just trying to get comfortable.
He's fitting quite well though, otherwise I think you'd have to respect someone
who No, he's never been the highest you should start up begin with,
but his role is clearly diminished from what it was when he was coming over
from Atlanta, and I respect guys like him who can make that transition I
won't say seamlessly, but in time effectively. And even now his availability can
still be an issue. But when he's on the court, the Nuggets are
very clearly an above average defensive team. And so no, he's not going
to have that same profile that he did during his years in Atlanta. That
part of that is age, but he's still just so functionally effective and valuable
that if your rank all the current players in the NBA, his volume probably
keeps him out of the top fifty, but he's also probably still right around
there. And that's looking at looking at what's happened over the past three years,
I think that that's actually super impressive. Yeah, I think he's also
just held back a little bit because of the injuries. Now, like we
had the first season in Denver only thirty eight games played. Then he missed
twelve last year, and he's managed to stay mostly healthy this year. But
you know, those those minor and more major injuries have piled up a little
bit, and especially during that that first season where the integration process with him
and with Nicola Yokich and with Jamal Murray that it kind of got held back
because they were they were so so new into his tenure there when when he
went down that he hasn't I hesitate to say he hasn't lived up to his
potential or the free agent signing, like he might not have provided as much
value as expected. Because of that, he I also will say he's one
of those guys that I've always wished would take more three pointers. I know
he's had some choppy three point splits when you live, but you wish that
about everyone. That's also fair too, I want everyone to take more three
forty four percent from three this year, just only three point seven taps thirty
six minutes. Who do we have next? Is this another tie spot?
We had a few ties here, No, we don't, So we have
a loan. In eighth place. We have Wilson Chandler, who was eighth
for both of us and who was tenth for the fans. I think this
is the first time we really get to bring up the bareness concept that we
talk about in every one of these episodes because Wilson Chandler. It's third and
minutes played over the last decade for Denver, and he was more than just
there, you know, a capable three D guy who kind of embodied what
we've come to appreciate about tweeners in this modern era where you know, six
eight two thirty five pounds like he was. He's been a little bit too
big for a lot of small forwards to cover when he tries to go inside,
and if a bigger guy is covering him, he's just quick enough to
get past him. He doesn't dominate either matchup, but he's good enough and
big enough and physical enough to kind of to contribute in every and everyone.
Yeah, and then you know the fact that he could do some stuff off
the dribble in addition to that, that's always kind of helped offset the fact
that his three point percentages are never or rarely, I should say, as
high as you would like. So shot thirty five percent from three though during
this stretch in Denver, and when I was doing research for this, I
was surprised. I probably thought he was injured more and maybe I was just
getting his availability complated with Daniela Gallinari's in Denver. I never would have guessed
that he is third and minutes played for the Nuggets over this decade. That's
one of the things that kind of caught me off guard. And so the
yariness factor matters, and then just just solid, you know, twenty sixteen,
twenty seventeen, Wilson Chandler especially was just absolutely on one on offense and
so just always a really solid player and ends up being, you know,
looking at the contracts they signed him to, looking at some of the some
of the fair weather success that they had during those post Mellow years, like,
ends up just being like one of those understated pieces that they were able
to add where at least made their team interesting, even though his time with
them kind of predates them being really good like they are now. For the
most part, I think it's easy to forget just how much time he spent
in Denver. He was a part of that Carmelo Anthony trade and he didn't
leave until he joined the philip We have seventy six ers for the twenty eighteen
nineteen season, Like, that's a lot of time spent spanning a number of
different mini eras in this franchise's history, and they just gave him away in
that trade, right, Like they just sent him into Phillies cap space that
year. Okay, so yeah, yeah he was there. He outlasted Daniela
Gallanari, yes, or they leave in the same offseason. I think I'm
trying to remember my timeline here, because Gallows signed with the Clippers in Yeah,
he did out last he was there one more season. Yeah, we
will get to Gallows though. Who comes after Wilson Chandler. Coming after Wilson
Chandler, we have Will Barton, who was seventh for the fans and who
was sixth for you and seventh for me. Sorry, I had to look
at my notes there. Well, I mean Will Barton, I thought,
I'm actually I don't know if I'm surprised that he is where he is,
like do I I guess maybe personally I find it low. He's just really
I know, we had the injuries last year and so maybe that holds back
is ranking a bit because he comes back and he's just not really ever as
effective. But he's been really good and sort of I respect the almost come
out of nowareness coupled with the actual theirness where his career has really taken off
in Denver after coming over from Portland, someone who he's not really a properly
sized wing. And some of the defensive metrics love him this season, he's
been really good defending one on one, but I also think that's the product
of some of the lineups he plays in, and then he's not going to
foul, and so all those things probably weigh into some of those metrics.
But when you look at what he can do offensively, like a pretty good
catch and shoot guy. He can do some work off the dribble, even
if he maybe don't trust his off the bounce jumper. This season specifically,
he's getting inside more can be that secondary playmaker, and so he just fills
a lot of holes and I just he's sort of like that the NBA equivalent
of like a five tool player, it feels like to me. And then
there's also just that a let trick intangibility about him where you know, some
of the possessions where he's working on the ball, you don't really know what's
going to happen, like you could end in disaster or could end in a
masterpiece, And like, I kind of respect that experience a little bit.
And he I think you can argue if you're looking at maybe this is being
too recent, but if you're looking at a perspective playoff series for the Nuggets,
you could probably make the case, especially this season given how much Gary
Harris has struggled, that he's their third most important player, just because you
still need that second face up weapon aside from Jamal Murray. And if you're
not going to lean on Michael Porter Jr. In that capacity in high volume
at this stage, the only other guy that can really generate that type of
offense in this rotation is Will Barton. Agreed. Agreed, And I kind
of think that he's one of the NBA's more overall underrated players. We credit
him for his athleticism and transition, for his scoring instincts, for the excitability
that you mentioned, because we don't really know what's going to happen. But
I do think that his ability is on the defensive end have largely gone overlooked
because he's been an offense first player in the past, and more than anything
else, I think that he developed an unfortunate and inaccurate reputation as kind of
a ballhog who looked for his own shots at the expense of hitting open teammates
of creating for others, when in reality, like he's consistently developed into a
better and better playmaker, with the exception of the injury riddled twenty eighteen nineteen
season where he just never really got comfortable. But aside from that, like,
he's really done a nice job blossoming into a guy who can really create
offense for himself and others on a consistent basis, which is not something that
the Denver has a lot on its roster aside from the stars. Yeah,
I do wonder if maybe his defense value would be compromised more if he spent
less time beside Gary Harris, who is going to take those tougher wing assignments.
As my voice just cracks there, but still, yeah, I think
you could certainly argue that he might be closer to a net neutral defender than
he's received credit for over his career, and then gave the offense that he
gives you as even underrated. You know, playing off of Jamal Murray and
Nicole Yokich, it's a luxury but can also be an adjustment when you're most
comfortable working on the ball, which is what Wilbarton is, but he works
alongside them. You can have those three on the court together and you're just
going to bulldoze opposing defenses. Yeah, no, I'm I'm with you there.
I wish that he just got a little bit more credit, and I'm
glad that you're giving it to him. And who was after him? After
him? We have another tie this time. Well we'll start off with Gary
Harris here, who was in a tie for fifth place. He was sixth
for the fans, he was sixth for me, and you actually had him
up at four despite this season struggles really the past two seasons. Really Yeah,
I was going to cract myself too, but you beat me to it.
I think I just appreciate one, You're talking about someone who had one
of the least efficient rookie seasons in NBA history and then all of a sudden
turns into this incredibly valuable rotation player. The fact that his three ball really
hasn't been falling over the past two seasons, and that even his finishing hasn't
been where it was at least when you're looking at twenty seventeen twenty eighteen,
it has picked up a little bit this season compared to last year. That's
definitely that definitely is a drawback for his case. But I might have considered
putting him even higher than I did, to be honest with you, just
because of had he been more kinsince on offense, just because of the workload
that he shoulders on defense for this team, and even when the lineups aren't
good defensive lineups, even when the Nuggets haven't been close to average defensive teams,
you're talking about someone who's six four, not insanely long, who just
covers these really tough wings on a regular basis. And I'm not trying to
say that he's some elite defender, because the level of difficulty doesn't have to
infer ability, but it is evidence of value because the fact that they can
put him on those types of players despite his size and so that you really
get three defensive positions out of Gary Arris, to me is just this huge
deal. And I think he's been there now for long enough where you can
take into account he's thereiness factor, and then we don't have to completely forget
about the offensive player that he was two seasons ago, where it looked like
this is going to be one of the most dangerous three and D weapons in
the league, and he might even be a little bit more than that.
Because you looked at the chemistry he had off the ball with Nicola Yo Kitchen,
his ability to duck in to the hoop and finish at the rim.
The fact that that's come down over the last season and a half or so,
again it is problematic, But I still think he's done enough in the
aggregate to warrant a top four finish for the decade. So he is fifth
in minutes played for the decade, which I think is important here because a
lack of availability has been one of the primary knocks against him. It seems
like it's been a steady stream of minor or nagging injuries that have largely held
back his ability to continue the promising development we saw throughout the first four years
of his right now six season career. He's only twenty five years old.
We don't really know which way he's going to trend moving forward. But you
know, these last two seasons I think maybe maybe unfairly knocked him further down
on my list than I expected, just because of the disappointment and the lack
of development and regression in so many, so many areas. It's hard it's
hard to know how, if to what extent, those are linked to the
injuries that he's worked through. It's important that head coach Mike Malone does seem
to implicitly trust his abilities on defense. He does trust him to handle a
bunch of different, often tough matchups. But the inability to shoot these last
couple of seasons, the lack of finishing ability around the rim, like like
as as you alluded to, like the off ball work that he did with
Yokis just as a as a cutter, a backdoor cutter, and a finisher
around the hoop, like so many of those reverse pick and rolls that they
ran ended up being some of the nicest highlights we've seen in the last decade
of you know under the rim play. You know the very special are very
very solid plays. As as the starters like to put it, it's so
it's it's difficult for me to separate the trajectory from the cumulative value. I
think that the cumulative value probably demands higher placement, but because we're we're looking
at their importance to the franchise too, I think that his lack of growth
has put more of a cap on their ceiling than we expected coming off of
that magnificent twenty seventeen eighteen season. I think that's all fair. Who is
he tied with. He was tied with Kenneth for Reid, who was fifth
for the fans, fourth for me, and seventh for you. Very much
a fan favorite in Denver, the Manimal, just those thunderous dunks, the
energy with which he played, but at the same time, like you take
away those highlights and the fan favoriteness and the theirness, and I think he
was kind of disappointing too, right, And he was one of those players
that really just couldn't keep up with the progression of the league's prefers. Style
of play is really what it was. You look at what he did as
a rebound or a high energy player, but he was also just never really
this incredible play finisher from the from the ranges where he should have been most
affected. But the most damning thing, even more so than kind of this
if he fit on the defensive end, is like for him not to develop
really any sort of a jumper where you couldn't necessarily trust him to make shots
outside of you know, the restricted area or definitely outside of the paint.
That ended up being incredibly problematic. And so it sucks when you see a
player who was so electrifying early on in his career, that career ends up
fizzling out sort of suddenly where he went from this. Maybe it was more
gradual in Denver his decline than I'm sort of painting it, because it does
feel like he got increasingly less important to them, at least during those final
couple seasons. But just looking at what he was supposed to be, what
that extension was supposed to represent, relative to what he ended up becoming to
them, it's disappointing. I don't think that we can penalize him too hard
for that, though, because we're just looking at especially those first few years
in Denver he was the counting stats were good for him again, that high
energy player who could really get up and down the floor, give you a
presence on the glass, even though he wasn't the biggest player, and it
was someone they looked to during those interim years, says, hey, maybe
we actually have this building block, and it turns out that that's not what
he was. But the fact that he could incite that sort of thinking,
even if only for fleeting seasons, I think it means something. And I
mentioned at the top of the podcast, or rather before we started recording that
I was never really the biggest fan of his game, even when he was
kind of just churning through double doubles. Still, I don't think you could
ignore the contributions of me having him at seven. I totally understand why the
composite rankings and the fans specifically end up having him higher. Yeah, I
actually had him higher than the fans at fourth as opposed to fifth from the
fans, and it was largely because of the Birness factor and just the way
that he invigorated the fan base. I do think that matters, especially in
a city that its first love is definitely football, and the basketball team struggles
to generate coverage even when it's good. And I think that having that that
fan favorite who brought fans to the Pepsi Center, who made nightly highlight reels,
that that did matter. Now. Then again, like the Nuggets were
consistently less effective with him on the court, it was very easy for opposing
teams to run pick and rolls, get him to switch on to them,
and just abuse him in isolation defense. So it's it's another case where like
there are conflicting factors here. But but for me, just given the Nuggets
struggle to acquire and maintain relevance in Denver. I wanted to give a little
bit more credit to the intangibles here, probably the most polarizing player on this
list, where I think he could have had the widest scope of ranges where
you could probably easily justify putting him where you did, but I also consider
him putting him a little bit lower than seven, which is where I had
him, excluding Carmelo Anthony, who I think there was some confusion about how
much time he spent in Denver this decade. He had the widest range of
outcomes from the fan vote, Like Freed, was as high as first as
as second place on some ballots, he was unranked on others, and we
didn't really see that complete contrast in outcomes. With as many players scientifically proven
there we go cannot argue with that. Up next, we have Jamal Murray
at fourth. The fans had him at third, which doesn't surprise me give
it as importance to the current iteration of these Nuggets. You and I both
had him at fifth. I love Jamal Murray's game. I don't think that's
any secret at this point, even when the results haven't been there you know,
just the confidence with which he plays, the form of his jumper,
the swagger, the blue arrow celebration, like all that stuff has just has
made me very convinced that he is going to be an absolute star in this
league. I think he's still trending towards getting there. I definitely don't think
he's produced like that thus far, but man, like, I've just always
loved his game. Yeah, he's there. He has this Jr. Smith
Jean about him where he can both win you and cost you playoff games,
and that happened in the playoffs last year for the Nuggets. But he is
still incredibly young, and so the hope can be that the efficiency for him
comes up. Still, He's really one of the very few players on this
team that can hit an off the dribble jumper with any zemblance of consistency.
I think there's probably untold value in having a point guard who so comfortably just
plays off Nicole Yokich. Where we've seen probably over the past two seasons that
yeah, Murray can lead some of these units on his own, at least
on the offensive end, but he's so much better alongside you, Kitchen.
That's not going to happen with a lot of other point cards because they're gonna
be so used to working with the ball in their hands. And this year
he's really he's at least shooting a career or say at least, but he's
shooting a career high on two pointers. And yeah, there's some variants in
his performance, but the fact that you have someone who, like you talked
about, with his confidence, isn't going to have a problem taking the biggest
shot in crunch time, and that this player is still only twenty three,
just turned twenty three in February, that's absolutely monstrous for your future. I
would not have given him a MAX extension personally, I would, yet I
would have let that ride out to restricted free agency and dared anybody to give
him that type of money over four years or even three like the threat of
a shorter deal with a player option wouldn't have scared me as much. But
I also respect the investment that the Nuggets are showing in him and then their
ability to continue developing him. And I don't think it's I don't think it's
impossible that this ends up being in okay contract. You're never gonna look at
it as a value contract. I think that very seldom happens with Max deals,
but he still has a chance to live up to that billing, and
I was really excited to see and hope we still get to see him in
the playoffs, just because I love that. Maybe fans find it more frustrating
than not where there are these vanishing acts down the stretch, but then he
can also put you on his back. But I kind of appreciate that variants
like I enjoy watching that, and so he's a player that I find just
absolutely magnetic. On November five, twenty sixteen, with five minutes and fourteen
seconds left in the first quarter, Jamal Murray hit a three pointer against the
Detroit Pistons, and it was notable because he had missed the first seventeen shots
of his career. And you know, that's ultimately irrelevant, like he's obviously
already bounced back to become a valuable offensive player, but I think it kind
of speaks to how from day one, he's also been tasked with filling a
role that he wasn't necessarily ready for, just because the lack of playmakers on
this Denver team who could create their own shots. Because he was simultaneously trying
to shore up his ball handling skills which lagged behind which you might expect from
a point guard, while also learning how to play off the ball with Jokich,
which is not something we typically see from a one guard. There were
so many different hurdles that he's had to overcome throughout his thus far brief career.
He only just turned twenty three that I think ascending to this point already
is a huge positive and gives me even more confidence that we have not yet
seen the best from him. My only recommendation for him would be to maybe
watch what he posts on Instagram would probably just be I'm sure he was just
hacked, right, Yeah, him and Raymond Draymond Green both look at that.
We worked it into a podcast about about the Nuggets my pronunciation of Draymond
Green for anyone who's curious about what we're referencing. I'm really proud of you,
guys. Are you looking to last longer than the value of a New
York Knicks first round draft pick? At the blue Chow dot Com, Luchu
dot com has the first ever chewable that brings your performance in the bedroom to
another level. They've got the same active ingredients that are in viagra and sialis,
so you know they work, and since they're chewable, they work faster.
You can take them anytime, day or night, even on a full
stomach. Plus you don't need to go to the doctor's office or spend time
waiting in the pharmacy line. Blue Choo's online physician is free of cost and
once approved, your ordership straight to your door in discrete packaging. Here's a
great deal for you guys. Visit blue chow dot com and get your first
order free when you use chromo code blue wire all one word, just pay
five dollars shipping. Again. That's blue chew dot com Chromo Code Blue Wire
number three for the Nuggets. Who wasn't No. One because we had another
tie, this time a two way tie for second place. One of the
two people tied was fourth for the fans. He was second for both of
us, and that was Ty Lawson. Lawson's career in Denver did not end
on the highest of notes. After multiple DUI rs, I think they chose
to part ways with him when it was was clear. I believe that,
if I remember correctly, he was also frustrated by them choosing another point guard
in the draft, and had like a video during the draft of him complaining
or something that point guard was Jamal Murray. Yeah, I was. I
was hoping you were going to finish my sentence, but I guess we're not
that instinct just yet. We're trying. We're getting there, but yeah,
I mean what he did before the unfortunate ending to his Denver tenure was was
pretty impressive. Like I feel like he's one of those guys who we've largely
forgotten just how good and explosive he was on offense, like a consistent twenty
ten threat, one of the better passers in the league, blindingly fast,
just all of that, like he made he was there before Denver really became
a true contender again if you would consider them that now. But he made
those interim nuggets teams really fun. Just an absolute bullet off the dribble so
quick, and you look at you look at his size five to eleven and
the fact that he was better than a coin toss finisher around the rim.
Just knowing really how to put you know, if he's going to put more
arc on the shots or just really figuring out how to get keep defenders on
tilt so that he's not being as heavily contested around the rim. Just really
scary to face and his peak. I mean, you look at the four
seasons in Denver, he spent much longer than that. They're total of six
seasons in Denver, but the four seasons between twenty eleven and twenty fifteen sixteen
point four points per game, eight assists, hit forty eight point four percent
of his twos, and shot almost thirty six percent from three. He could
be a legitimate engine for an above average offense. And just when when we
were first going through this, I had just forgotten how good he was because
that's how far removed we seem from Peake Tylsson. He hasn't played in the
NBA since twenty seventeen, when when he was on the Kings, so I
think it's probably easy to forget how good he was. But when he was
good, he was damn good. One of the better players we've seen without
an All Star appearance, right, Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I
was trying to look up where he is, and like wind Shares, among
players with no All Star appearances this decade, he's only thirty fourth, But
I think that's a little unfair. Just because we're limiting are we're extending the
time frame beyond when his career ended. So if we isolate that to twenty
ten eleven through twenty sixteen seventeen, even including the period in which he declined
for other organizations, I'm still eleventh among non All Stars and wind Shares,
which is pretty solid when he's not playing for these contenders. I'm like,
you know, we see Serge Ibaka and Marsine Gortatt and George Hill and David
West are on that list, like those kind of guys who might not have
been as important to their teams as Lawson was as the unquestionable offensive engine with
the Nuggets. But yeah, I mean still obviously provided a lot of value
without really getting too much respect for those efforts. Second in wins above replacement
for the Nuggets in this decade too, And that's nothing to slouch out.
It is not who is he tied with. He was tied with Nilo Gallinari,
another another guy. Because I couldn't decide who to put at two.
I ultimately went with Lawson, but it was a struggle. We both have
the same thought process, I think, because I also was trying to figure
out how I wanted to order those two at two and three and ended up
with Gallo at number three. The fans did the reverse, they had those
two at two and three, but Gallo did come out ahead at at number
two. Yeah. I mean, maybe he would have been a guaranteed second
place finisher if he hadn't torn his ACL in Denver, But it was like
the injury pro knock was always what held him back, even though he was
so obviously a really excellent offensive player, one of the better shooters that we've
seen in a while, capable of creating, capable of shooting over anyone in
underrated defender before the injuries kind of sapped some of his athleticism. But there
was a time when he was first coming over as as the centerpiece of the
return in the Carmelo Anthony deal died, he was like he was a semi
lockdown defender in addition to being a reliable scorer. What I respect most about
his game. You know, you mentioned what Ty Lawson's value is compared to
others who haven't made an All Star Games, and El Gallanari, I would
imagine has to be up there too, would probably be higher than number thirty
four in that list. But what I most appreciate about his game even as
time goes on and it's sort of changed a little bit. Where As you
mentioned, with all the injuries, he's definitely not as explosive as he once
was. He blurs the line between primary scorer and compliment. His shot profile
is it's inclusive, like it's heavy on spot up opportunities, but dotted with
these like reliable self creation looks. And he has a penchant for getting to
the freeze a line. And that's part of what makes him such an efficient
offensive weapon. He showed that time and again in Denver. He carried it
over to the Clippers. He showed it again with the Thunder. There's that
level of consistency there. What really hurts him, it's just the availability had
he been healthier in Denver. You know, we're talking about someone who I
think probably would have been my in arguable number two, but just someone who
is so effectively able to straddle that line between hey, we do need you
to create your own offense, but you're also gonna have to play off not
just some people, but a bunch of different people, and you still have
to be really impactful. I I respect it. I've used the word respect
a lot in this podcast, but Kila Gallanori is probably one of the more
underrated players of this just this specific era, and I think there's a case
if he wanted to tell me that, hey, he belongs over ty Lawson
and you really shouldn't be waiting, you know, minutes played or that type
of example, I might not provide you with that much pushback because I do
think that he was closer to stardom in Denver than thy Lawson was, maybe
maybe by a hair or maybe I'm even wrong, just because thy Lawson had
more control over the offense as the primary passer. But Daniel Grannari's just he's
still so damn good. And his time in Denver, you know that that
mellow trade when you when you trace back all the branches to what they ended
up receiving for it. I don't know if you would say that he's a
worthwhile centerpiece because they didn't have a ton of success with him there, but
he was just still really good, really solid, and even now it was
like that while he was in Denver and then even now he's he probably typifies
what we mean when we say a fringe all star, like that's the type
of player that he is. So speaking of fringe All Star, I've I've
really found that I enjoy putting you on the spot during these during these episodes,
so we're gonna do it again. Gallo is ninth place in wind Shares
from twenty ten eleven through the present among players with zero All Star appearances?
Can you name the rest of the top ten? Oh? No, I
wouldn't even be able to begin to do. Are they players that have like
little experience where they didn't really have a chance to make an All Star peers
just yet? Just looking through the list, I think there are two three
guys who should have been All Stars if the NBA did what it should and
expanded the rosters a little bit too match the growing numbers of players in the
league as we've had more teams and more guys cycling through roster spots. The
rest are like high end role players who have been very good for at least
some portion of the decade. So how many am I trying to name?
All ten? I've spotted you one with Gallo? All right, Gallo,
my COMMI has to be on there. He is number two. Tobias Harris.
Tobias Harris is down at eighteen. All right, I should probably just
stop there because I'm already running out of names. Gordon Hayward, do you
ever make an All Star appearance? He did in Utah, Right, some
disrespect being thrown at Cordon Hayward from me. What about Lou Williams. Lou
Williams is number ten? Okay, I'm sorry. Did you how to make
it it? He did? He made an Allstar apperience he did with Philly
right. Yeah, I got like he's like twenty eleven twelve, right before
they'd moved him. I think I'm already running out of names here. Derek
Bletso making All Star appearance? Uh, he did not, but he's down
at twenty fifth. Wow, I'm really I'm really bad. It's this exercise.
I feel like you just need to do. You want me to just
put you out of your misery here? Yes? Number one. Number one
is Sergebacca, okay. Number two is Mike Conley. Number three is George
Hill. Number four is Marsteen Gore Todt. Number five is Derreck Favors.
Six is JJ Reddick, seven is Jonas Valancunas, eight is Greg Monroe.
And then you got nine and ten, which were Daniel o' gallinari and Lou
Williams. Wow, Greg Monroe, Greg Monroe. Yeah, I mean,
like, can you tell me how old Greg Monroe is? By the way,
Greg Monroe is still only like twenty eight, right, Okay, I
was closer than you were on your trivia question. That was a hard I
never would have gotten Gortat. That's never, definitely, definitely not Gortat.
I was surprised you didn't get search. That seems like a fairly obvious one.
So, speaking of fairly obvious, number one in our composite rankings was
drum roll here, Nicolai Yokich, you surprised, stunned, shocked, flabbergasted.
I'm a little bit surprised because I just feel like Randy Foy was staring
people right in the face. And the fact that they no one gave Randy
Foy a single vote. Wow, eleven minutes played for the Nuggets this decade,
he was and I believe that he hit a like a buzzer beater in
double overtime or something to win one game like five years ago. Yeah,
he deserved, he deserved at least a vote a straggler, But no,
I didn't know what to say about Yoki. She's the best passing big name
in the league history. What he can do, and just some of the
dimes that he drops is just wild. You look at the full court heaves
that he could throw and just hit guys and it's just there, always seem
to be on point. There's just one handed dimes that that he drops.
He's an incredibly talented scorer too. I know he's three point percentage of Waxton
Wayne during his time in Denver, but he is an authentic threat from beyond
the arc. The way that he can really just finesse but also bully his
way to the basket. He can move with the ball in his hands and
put it on the floor a little bit. He's not gonna face up Anthony
Davis style, but he does have that that bandwidth in his offensive game.
He is right now, I'd say he's a top five, no lower than
a top seven player in the NBA, and he's someone who should probably finish
in that area on the MVP ballot. And I just don't know what could
be said about him that just hasn't already been set. Just one of the
most valuable players in the game right now, and the fact that you know
you end up getting him with the number forty one pick that's going to go
down. Is one of the best second round picks in NBA history. I'm
trying to think of who would definitely be in front of him right now you've
managed nobly is going to be there. Do you put Draymond Green in front
of him? But he's going to go down? Is easily one of the
I would say, between three and five best second round picks in NBA history,
unless I'm forgetting someone just super glaring. All right, So give me
a second to climb up on my soapbox here. So we need to address
the people who still want to say that Yokich is a bad defender. I
think that that is the only remaining misconception about his game, and it stems
from his inability to stop guards in isolation when he switched onto them, and
he doesn't really block a lot of shots or serve as a primary rim protector.
But the Nuggets are consistently far better on defense with him on the court.
And just watching Nuggets game and focus only on him, don't watch the
ball, don't watch who ever is dribbling, don't watch where it's passed.
To just focus on Yokich and you see how much he does in between those
terminuses of offensive possessions. He consistently deters passing lanes, he consistently makes the
right rotations, and those things matter so much in addition to his growing communication
on that end of the floor. Like, I don't think that he needs
to be a player who is talked about as an offensive powerhouse who is a
defensive liability, because he has consistently proven that that is not the case,
and it really hasn't been the case even dating back to the early portions of
his career. He's slow, he's not traditionally athletic, but he is an
effective defensive player. He's not traditionally athletic. I like it. Look he's
I think he does a lot of things that deserve to be counted as athleticism.
I mean, you've seen the water polo inspired rebound and quick passes where
he doesn't even have to touch the ball with a secondhand, like that kind
of stuff, The coordination, those are all ex amples of athleticism. It's
just not run fast, jump high, right. I totally agree with you.
He's also something looks like he very much enjoys the off seasons, and
that's something that I that I can appreciate. But good for him. Yeahr
in Serbia or the there was the video that surface where he was just like
shirtless dancing like in the woods or something like some weird for him. Good
for him. But anyway, to your point on his defense there, what
I think people also forget is there there's value in ending possessions with a rebound,
and Nicole Yogicch is a good defensive rebounder, so he's limiting second chance
opportunities while he's on the floor. And look, there's a lot of just
noise. Ben Taylor has done a great job on this talking about the real
value offensive rebound of rebounding in general, but there's still value in making sure
opponents don't get second looks on the offensive end. He helps with that element.
And then also, and you kind of talked about this, he has
the IQ to kind of work in these like more aggressive schemes that the Nuggets
had had tried out I think probably more prevalent last season and then then this
season, like he just has the length where he can get up on guys
and you know, maybe it burned you time and again, but he's going
to get in there and forced some steels, poke aways, some balls,
really party crash passing lanes by doing that. I don't know that that makes
him this incredibly valuable defender, but to call him this outright liability, now
it's misinformation. I do think that the number of people who are still buying
into that is diminishing. It's just not as small as it should be if
this is a sign of progress. It wasn't even something that I felt about
talking about before, like addressing his defense, So the fact that you brought
it up it still matters clearly, But like you said, it's a diminishing
stance. Yeah, I mean, at this point, I think the most
compelling conversation about Yokich is not really his place within the current league wide hierarchy
or his defense, but it's it's really like, is he going to be
the best player in this franchise's history? I mean, Denisel, Alex English,
Fat Lever to kem By Mutambo, like there have been Bobby Jones,
David Thompson, like there have been some big names throughout history. But you
have to think, like the fact that he is on pace to spend his
entire career here, and I'm certain that the front office is going to want
to keep him in Denver as long as possible. And the trajectory that he's
on that is unquestionably a Hall of Fame trajectory. I feel like it's pretty
hard to argue against him definitely not yet being there, but being on pace
to take the gold home for this franchise and of all time, not just
in the last decade. The way he plays since the future is going to
wait heavily, and what you just said, it looks like it should age
well his style and maybe he becomes maybe he really becomes a defensive problem for
the Nuggets as he gets older, but just what he does on offense,
I feel like that should all age well for him, just based on the
way he plays. It's like Arvinus Tabonus is probably a good comparison here,
where you know, he came to the NBA as a thirty one year old,
and deep into his thirties, he was still an obviously effective offensive player
just because he was a brilliant passer. He was a capable shooter from mid
range, even extending it out to three point range sometimes, and I think
that's the floor for an older version of Yokig. It's not like he runs
the floor well already. Maybe he won't be fast enough to get some of
those frustration foules that he gets. It holds him back. Now. Yeah,
maybe he's not leading as many fast breaks, but like you said,
he could just do those one hand and rebound catches. Just throw it down
court. Actually save himself some energy. Maybe he doesn't have to get up
for down the floor. Honorable mentions, let's get into them. Yeah,
I thought this was This was cool because there were fewer of them than we've
seen with other teams, and I think it's a testament as counterintuitive as it
initially seems. I think the lack of depth and the honorable mentions was a
testament to the quality of the options at the back end of the top ten
just because people It didn't seem like people were scrambling for names to fill out
the back of their ballot like we've been doing with the Charlotte Hornets or the
Atlanta Hawks. So yeah, we only had twenty six different players received votes.
We've gone over all of them that were in the top ten. So
we had Chauncey Billups at eleven, which I think is valid to give him
some credit, assuming I have my timeline, right. I don't think he
spent much time in Denver during this decade, right, No, he came
over in Uh did you spend any he traded it, Yeah, he's traded.
He was in the Yeah, he was in the Mellow trade. So
similar to Mellow there, we had andre Igodala at twelve, who I really
had trouble picking between him and a Flllow from my tenth spot, just because
of how important he was to that fifty seven win team that that was setting
records at home, that went to the playoffs. But then the way he
exited and joined the Golden State Warriors right after they beat him, I don't
think he he made fans within the Denver fan base with that move. So
it was it was tough for me to put him in because of the intangibles
there. And I don't know if you had a similar struggle. I didn't
have that same struggle, but everyone's mad at Kevin Durant for doing it.
Andre Goodala had the first go to the Warriors. He'll turn after a steph
hug too. Yeah. Yeah, So after Iggy, we had Aaron a
Flllow at thirteen. We've already talked about him. We had Kenyan Martin at
fourteen, we had Andre Miller at fifteen, we had Nane Hilario at sixteen.
We had Alan Iverson, who did not play during this decade at seventeen
didn't again, like didn't just not play for the Nuggets, but didn't play
in the NBA in general. But Alan Iverson is awesome and embraces the new
generation of players and supports them, and therefore I think it's valid that we're
supporting him here. I like that he got to vote. Wait to finesse
that in there. Yeah, I don't know if that was a bit of
a stretch, but I'll take it. In a tie for eighteenth, we
have Malik Beasley, which I would I want to be clear that I did
not vote for Malik Beasley. This is not my doing, This was other
people. And then he was tied with Mason Plumley. He was surprised by
either of those. Not really, I'm surprised that Monte Morris didn't end up
number one on your ballot, but I thought about it, but then I
had to knock him down. So we had a big tie for twentieth.
Michael Porter Junior, who seems pretty certain to climb further up this list moving
forward. Costa Kufast was also tied for twentyeth with Jamir Nelson, Marcus Camby,
Marcus Camby and Evan Fournier, who I thought would be a little bit
higher as well, and then tied for twenty fifth we had Monte Morris and
Timofey Moskov. Noel Harrington love, Noel Harrington Love. But yeah, I
mean, like just looking at these guys, like, you know, I
can see arguments for having Nana, for having a FLAA, which we did,
for having Mason Plumley, for having Malik Beasley, maybe even Morris and
Moskov, who was who was pretty valuable, I mean valuable enough that he
inked the Albatross contract in twenty sixteen because of what he did in Denver.
Yeah, they traded, They traded in form multiple first round picks. Yeah.
If you look at let's say, the players who rank fiftieth or better
in minutes played for the Nuggets this decade, there's just a lot of names
that stand out and you look at saying, well, they were they were
a good NBA player, and the Nuggets actually had them while they were good.
Just a lot of rock solid talent across the board here. For Denver,
I think it's because their worst season was thirty and fifty two. You
know they haven't their best season is in progress. Yeah no, I said
the Knicks best season is thirty Oh yeah yeah, uh yeah. There.
It's one of just the more probably underrated talent farms in the NBA when you're
just looking at franchises. I mean, some of these they didn't groom all
these guys when you're going up and down the list. But Evan forming someone
who was really good with the Nuggets before he ends up in in Orlando.
So there's just I'm looking at these names that ranked fifty if they're better minutes
again, so many stand out is oh hey they were they were good basketball
players. And not only were they good basketball players, but they weren't these
nobodies when they were in Denver. For the most part, a lot of
talent here. This is this is a fun one to try to figure out,
just because there were so many legitimate options throughout the ballot. Yes,
this was fun. When we resume, we will be onto the Detroit Pistons,
which I imagine will be less fun. But I haven't gotten into the
research for it yet. Yeah. I think we're gonna have to talk a
lot about Andre Drummond. Yeah, that's gonna be rough. So so until
next time, please remember to continue rating, reviewing, and subscribing to us
on iTunes, follow us on Twitter and on YouTube as well. It's hardwa
Knox in both instances. Thank you all for listening, and until next time,
I leave you with the shout out too. Denver Dugets Legend, Gary
Horns, Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin Hagler, and
Thomas Hearns legends whose four way rivalry define one of the greatest errors in boxing
history, relive their decade of dominance in the new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings,
a four parts series premiering Sunday, June sixth, only on Showtime