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dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey, Carl and Richard here with your twenty

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00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:28.920
twenty four NDC schedule. Will be
at as many NDC conferences as possible this

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00:00:29.000 --> 00:00:33.359
year, and you should consider it
tending no matter what. Ndcoslow is happening

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00:00:33.479 --> 00:00:38.600
June tenth through the fourteenth. Get
your tickets at ndcoslow dot com. The

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00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:43.679
Copenhagen Developers Festival happens August twenty sixth
through the thirtieth. Early bird discount ends

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00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:51.520
April twenty sixth. Tickets at Cphdevfest
dot com. Ndcporto is happening October fourteenth

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through the eighteenth. The early bird
discount ends June fourteenth. Tickets at Ndcporto

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00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:14.200
dot com. And we'll see you
there, we hope. Hey, welcome

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back to dot net rocks. I'm
Carl Franklin and amateur Campbell our friend Anthony

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Eden from Dan Simple is here.
But before we talk to him, Man,

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it's been a while since we did
any small talk or anything. What's

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new in Vancouver. Well, I'm
up in the coast now, I don't

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live down the city anymore. And
you know that you went to the original

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house, to the one that I
sold I did last year, and you

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know it had a bit of rack
at it, you know, a couple

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of racks here and there, a
rack you know, like the server racks.

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Oh racks, server racks. Yeah, and so now that I mean,

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you know, I thought you might
have been talking about wine because you

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do that as well. No,
I had had a bunch of those two,

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but no, no, we're talking
about the server racks. And so

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when it moved up here, I'm
like, I'm deracifying my life. Good

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for you, man, Yeah,
so more cloud less rack, Well,

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I mean, I got a lot
of stuff in the cloud. But he

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still need a local network and you
have to have a good one. So

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yeah, yeah, you need to
switch. I could have ended up with

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a couple of rack bounded switches and
control of the stuff. I'm like,

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no, no, I'm not doing
it. I'm gonna stay small so I

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actually built it under the stairs,
mounted to a piece of plywood. I

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love that Harry Potter style. So
it's also flat and tidy, and I

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can see all the blinky lights like
it's all the features you want for rack,

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no rack, I like that.
That's very cool. Yeah, and

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about twenty four hours of ups on
it too. I had a visitor this

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weekend. Mister Mark Miller was at
my house. I heard of that guy.

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I heard they were in Connecticut,
just him, Oh, okay,

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yeah, no, the rest of
the family is in Spain still. But

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he came, okay, and I
od'd him on amazing Keto food. He

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could not stop talking about it.
I mean, we had ribbis, we

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had cheeseburgers, we had ice cream. Uh, it was great PASTRAMI awesome

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all right anyway, and nobody wants
to hear about that. Let's get started

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with better no framework, we're all
the music. Awesome, all right,

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man? What do you got now? I don't remember if I talked about

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this when it came out, but
this was during the pandemic. It came

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out. Oh, there's a great
little tool called jitsy it and jitsy is

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a free, open source sort of
conference tool like Zoom, it's browser based

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and it has a wonderful API and
you can host your own server. And

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so this article right here from build
five nines, which is a great name.

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I love that Build five nines dot
com. I had a great blog.

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I read it all the time.
Yeah, host private video meetings and

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Azure with Jetsy and so all you
really need is an Azure Linux VM.

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The software is free and it you
know, it's open source. You have

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a chat, password protected, conference
sessions, audio and video support for many

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simultaneously connected users. And the really
cool thing about it is there's no limit

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to the length of a meeting.
Nice, so you don't have to deal

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with any of that. You just
did pay for the VM. Yeah,

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you just have to pay for the
VM. So, like, if you

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wanted to set up cameras and stuff
and like just have them always on boom,

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no problem done. And it works
on it works on phones. Cool.

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It's amazing. Oh and of course
this article came out in April twenty

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twenty when we were all trying to
figure out Zoom at the same time.

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Yeah, that's right, and I
did it around that time. I did

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a tour of the air space at
the Air Force Museum in Daytona, Ohio

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with our friend Clemens Vasters using an
open zoom and we got bombed. How

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badly bombed did we get? I
was recording it locally because we're going to

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chop it up and use it.
I suddenly I realized as we got the

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idiot out of there, that I
now had child porn on my server.

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Okay, so now I understand what
you mean by bomb. Yeah, I

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don't know, because you know,
Clemens likes beer. You like, no,

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godh kind of thing. Then again, you know, given twenty twenty

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four, you could have had actual
bombs dropping on you. No, no,

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not that part of the world,
all right, So you got a

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cyber attack, yeah, effectively,
but it was you know, that was

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back when all that stuff was pretty
insecure. It's all gotten better now,

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but you know, no substitute for
running your own right. But I do

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remember the zoom bombs that people used
to just jump in all of a sudden

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twenty twenty Yeah, and you know, because there was no password protection,

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that's right, because who needs that? We were all clumsy. This is

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not that long ago, that's four
years ago. Well that's what I got.

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Who's talking to us today, Richard
I grabbed a commentav of show UH

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eighteen eighty nine, the one we
did with Magnus Martinsen. We were talking

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about Azure in general and across certain
architectural points, and Rob had this great

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comedy say, this great show is
always I have noticed, however, a

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common theme to a lot of Azure
episodes. The developer is using it wrong.

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Close quote like what was that the
jobs line about the iPhone? You're

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holding it wrong. Usually this is
related to Azure devs and amin's not removing

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extra capacity or not understanding how to
structure cloud resources versus on premi resources.

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I think if you make a tool
and the majority of really experienced tool users

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hit their foot with it, maybe
saying the users need to figure out how

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to not hit their foot with it
is not the best corrective approach. Also,

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telling devs you didn't do your homework
is a bit of a cop out.

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It's more likely the devs did try
to do their homework. But maybe

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the documentation is not as clear as
you might think it is, or the

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interface is not as clear either.
I'm one hundred percent certainly the correct documentation

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is out there. Why you're optimism
Rob, certainly the documentation out there is

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incorrect. It is likely somewhere in
the hay stack of wrong and just irrelevant

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information is also out there. Improving
Azure maybe less about improving code and more

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about figuring out what the devs are
using it for and doing wrong with it,

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and improving the interfacer documentation to reduce
those theres. You have called us

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out, sir, and I read
this for a reason. You are correct.

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You are one hundred percent correct.
It shouldn't be so easy to do

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this wrong. Yeah, yeah,
right, and to fall into that trap.

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It should be easier to do it
right. And that's all something we

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should work towards. So Rob,
thank you so much for your comment and

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a copy of Music Cobi. It's
on its way to you. And if

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you'd like a copy of Musico by
write a comment on the website at dot

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00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:31.199
at Rocks dot com or on the
facebooks. We publish every show there,

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00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:33.160
and if you comment there and to
read in the show, we'll send you

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a copy Music Coobi. And you
can definitely follow us on Twitter if you

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00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:40.000
want. We've been there for years, but the cool kids are now hanging

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out on mastadon I'm at Carl Franklin
at tech Hub dot social, and I'm

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rich Campbell at master dot social,
and all the ways you can get in

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touch with me are finally detailed at
Carl Franklin dot com. Okay, let's

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bring Anthony Eden back. It's only
been ten years. Well, the we

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gentlemen he introduced, who formerly Anthony
is the founder of dn simple and the

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perpetrator of numerous open source projects.
He's also contributed to a wide variety of

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open source projects over the past twenty
plus years as a software developer using multiple

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languages including jab A, Python,
Ruby, Closure, Go, and Erlang.

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And yeah, welcome back, Anthony. I gotta tell the story again.

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It was ten years ago. Tell
the story, Carl. All right,

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So here's how we met Anthony.
We were on a road trip,

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right, Richard. We are must
have been the twenty ten Visual Studio twenty

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ten, twenty twelve, I think
twenty twelve. Okay, you would remember

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better than me, so anyway,
m because it was the road trip to

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never end right, thirty four cities. That was the big one. Yeah,

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with numb nuts. So the numb
Nuts was the nickname we gave our

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driver. That's a nice name.
Yeah, well, anyway, So I

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get an email because I'm you know, I'm at the table, I'm working,

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I'm doing email the whole time.
Richard's up in the passenger seat playing

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on this world and not talking to
anybody. Go on a road trip with

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your buddy Carl. He's like the
most antisocial person ever. He's just playing

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a game the whole time. But
he won. I did well. He

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came in number one on this game. Briefly, So I got this email

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and it was from a company that
I won't mention their name, but it

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rhymes with slow Chatty. Okay.
So this person at slow chatty dot com

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says, hey, you know,
we like your show. We would like

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to advertise with you. And I
read it to Richard, and Richard and

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I looked at each other. It's
like, we hate slowpatty dot com,

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but we love Dansimple. So you
know, I had just started because Scott

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Hansman told us about dansimple, so
I had your I don't know, I

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think I just sent it to sales
at dansimple dot com and I forwarded the

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email and I said, hey,
we just got this email, but we

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hate these guys, would you guys
be interested in advertising this and I remember

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you Your reply was continue he said, interesting pitch. Yeah, interesting pitch.

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That's right. Go on. Now, I remember when you showed me

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the original email from the company that
show what you renamed, and he said,

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what do you think of this?
And I'm like, but they suck?

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But they suw? Why would we
do that? Why would why?

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Well, funny enough, they were
they. I was using them, and

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that was the origin of being simple
because I was using them, and I

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said, this can't be as good
as it gets. No, yeah,

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it can't be. So I had
all the knowledge I'd been working in a

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DNS and domain space for many,
many years, and I said, all

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right, I'm going to try to
finally try to build something after seventeen years

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of doing stuff with other people on
this was your thing. Yeah, and

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that show we did back in twenty
four two was really cool because you were

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quite the polyglot then. Yeah,
which I think today isn't that weird,

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but at the time was pretty usual. Yeah. We did a lot of

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unusual things. I mean that the
remote working, for example, in twenty

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fourteen, and still even today we're
fully remote. We always have them,

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which now it feels a lot more
normal after COVID. You know a lot

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of people have learned how to work
from home. We walked it right into

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that with saying, well, this
is how we already do business. This

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is normal. Yeah. Yeah,
it's almost like you were born in the

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cloud company before it was really kind
of cloudish, yet like you had that

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style. I think that's fair.
I think that's fair. Having having run

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servers for a while, when I
had the opportunity to no longer run servers,

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I said, I don't ever want
to do that again. You and

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me both brother, you can preach. So we started registering domains at Network

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Solutions right as everybody did, you
know. And I never used slow Patty,

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but I tried once and it was
just like, oh, this is

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ridiculous. But Network Solutions was ridiculous
enough. Yeah, and on top of

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it, so the problem that you
faced and we all faced, and the

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reason why we love DNS is because
the simple act of registering a domain and

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changing things and oh god forbid,
if you want to transfer it, Oh

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my god, they put you through
all these things, and they put up,

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you know, fake things that you
can need to click on, and

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then oh my god, I've just
increased my subscription to five hundred dollars a

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month or whatever. Oh yeah,
all a deceptive creditory. Yeah, the

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great thing about moving away from netsol
was that they made it so arduous.

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You're just so much keener to get
it done. Yeah, right, like

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you didn't make it hard for me
to want to leave. And I'll tell

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the story again, And I probably
told this ten years ago, but I

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was using dan Simple on my phone
in the security line at an airport,

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configuring my email server for Google,
and it were and I did it with

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one hand and it just worked nice. And I was like, well,

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this couldn't be any better. I
mean, come on, yeah, I've

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had nothing but great experiences longtime fans, Anthony, as you know, we've

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been your customer for every and because
you were always awesome, and I appreciate

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00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:13.840
that. I appreciate that. I'm
glad that you all have stuck with us,

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and hopefully we can keep your business
for another ten years at least easily

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easily. Yes, I am finally
lapsing a few Donain names. I swore

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I would do something with someday,
like you know spring cleaning that I think

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everybody goes through that every once in
a while and like, Okay, I'm

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never going to do this again.
I'm never And then they're like, oh,

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but this I have this idea,
Like o'clock in the morning, I'm

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drunk and I registered dot net,
cupcakes, dot com or something right,

200
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and I'm like, why that?
Did I do what I wanted? So

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funny, funny quick story. We
almost built an iOS app for fast registering

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domains, which was going to brought
up somebody said I got to be able

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to drunk domain and we almost built
it. We went all the way through

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the design phase. We looked at
it and I said, I said,

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folks, we can't build this because
it's going to work. Yeah, right,

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and we're going to be part of
a problem exactly, said I don't

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want to be part of that problem. Right. You are also the first

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person outside Google that I ever met
that said that they built something real with

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Go and the and simplest built on
Go. Right, Yeah we have.

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So we have. Our our core
web app is still Ruby on Rails,

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has been and will continue to be
most likely. All of the systems that

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kind of integrate everything together so that
send data out to our edges and a

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lot of the smaller sort of glue
pieces. Those are all in GO and

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then our name servers are in Airline. That's great, right yea, just

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pure speed ye erlang. I mean
Airline's great for building network toolkits essentially networking

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things. Is really great at taking
packets apart and putting them back together.

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Go is really good for gluing things
together, super clear language, and we

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have a lot of small utilities.
And then Rails is still our web framework

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of choice. It is just such
a good framework and it's even today it's

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it gets better each day. So
that's all is a good sign. All

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right, So you're here to announce
some new stuff that you have in the

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cloud and for the community. So
last time, ten years ago, there

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was like a c sharp API that
you announced, right, well, so

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I think I think the c sharp
API we announced back actually more recently.

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It was about three or four years
ago when we brought that out. I

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think ten years ago we were still
just talking about D and simples at its

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early ages, right, Oh yeah, yeah, that's right. So it

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wasn't that we had Enrique Cambro,
I'll come on, yeah, talk about

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the API. Yes, ye had
you had Enrique on talking about that,

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Okay, and so that was kind
of the start. We always knew that

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we wanted to sort of help and
get involved in the Windows world a little

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bit, and we always saw Azure
is something we wanted to somehow hook up

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to. Well. A couple of
years back we started working on what we're

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calling our domain control plane, and
the ideas is that you'd be able to

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not only manage your domains that are
inside d and Simple and your dns there,

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but also your dns and other providers
as well. And so early this

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year we started working on the Azure
provider and we've launched that. So essentially

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now from within DAN Simple, you
can hook up the Azure and you can

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actually pull in your domains in are
an Azure and manage them just like you

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would your DN Simple domains, manage
the DNS on them, ad records,

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do all kinds of things, including
through the API, so essentially you can

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have a single place and not just
asure. We also do Route fifty three

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and Core dns as well, right, and so the idea is that you

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have this unified interface for managing your
domains even if you can't pull them into

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DN Simple, or if you want
to manage them on multiple providers because now

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more and more people are using at
least two different providers for redundancy. Say,

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so, does that mean when I
create a new web app in Azure

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and I want to add a custom
domain, I don't have to add text

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records with asuid dot whatever to I
mean, if you set up it for

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you, you could do that easily, right because you're in DAN simple.

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You could set up a template for
it or something like as put in.

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But even if you had it inside
of Azure and you pulled that domain,

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and you'd be able to apply that
same thing saying over to that domain over

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an asker. And the idea is
just if you're running authoritative DNS, some

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part of your authoritative DNS on Azure, you should be able to manage that

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from within d and simple. That's
our opinion of Yeah, so that's where

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the domain control plane is headed well. And you know, this is why

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I read that comment from Rob too, because it hit me with the main

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tech support calls I've ever made or
ever had with DN simple is because I'm

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adjusting DNS entries on something that's no
longer be run by DN simple because I

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had to, because I had to
pull it over to Azure DNS because Azure

262
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does a bunch of trickery with their
services that it's just so much easier if

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the DNS is there, and then
you forget you never take it out of

264
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DN simple, and then I'm tweaking
it in DM symbol. Now thing's happening.

265
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I'm like, am I losing my
mind? And your textic court people

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are levelags like I don't think we're
actually your DNS provider for this, Like

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what you may be losing your mind, but that is beside the point,

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separate, separate issue entirely. So
I feel like you're building the tool that

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Rob was expressing around at, which
is like what if you had one place

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to look at DNS and the fact
that it happened to run in DAN simple

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or running as you're routed. We're
in the fifty three. Who cares?

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From one point of view? Yeah, and APIs are all the APIs are

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different, right, right, So
you go to any of these APIs and

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you're gonna have to go digging and
digging. And so essentially what we've done

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is do the digging for you so
you don't have to anymore do the DIGGS

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for it, because so otherwise we're
each going to roll our own on this,

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and we're all going to hate ourselves, so we'll just hate you pretty

278
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much. So much easier to hate
you, Yeah, hate me or love

279
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me, because I've done a good
job, which is ideally what I want.

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Well, and that's why I'm delighted
you've done it, because your UI

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doesn't try and deceive me like some
sides, you know, generally makes things

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pretty dark clear by the way you
did add this thing, like if you've

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left your DNS running a DAN symbol
and it's not actually the supervisor, it

284
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makes you very clear, like this
is not being used believing your entries for

285
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this is y. Yeah, and
we're going to continue. We're right now

286
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actually working on trying to make that
even better as well, all the experience

287
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inside of DAN simple so that we
can help people not have to go through

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that pain of not being able to
see that something is somewhere else as well,

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because because it is, it's a
challenge, right, there's a lot

290
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of complex DNS, which has been
around for so long still is a hard

291
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thing to understand often. Yeah,
I mean, and the haiku is still

292
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true. You couldn't you know,
it's not DNAs it couldn't be DNAs,

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it's DNSS DNS. So but you
guys also do things like I don't go

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to who is to look for domains
anymore. I just go to dan simple

295
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and I try to register domain and
if it's not available, it tells me.

296
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And it's so much easier than believe
it or not. Who is Net

297
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anyway has turned into like I haven't
used it in a long time. My

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recollection is there's like ads and crap
and stuff in there as well. Then

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it just yeah, well, I
mean they have to they're trying to monetize

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in some way. The interesting thing
is that who is as a protocol is

301
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going to die. It's being replaced
actually right now. So the new protocol

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it's going to replace, it's called
our DAP and that is being slowly rolled

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out throughout the world. Wow,
well, and it probably needs replacement.

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Who Is was from a kinder gentler
It was very much time. Oh you

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know, speaking of that, there
have been some DNS hijacking attacks. There

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always have been, but I've heard
I heard about some more recently in the

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last couple of years, like a
DNS poisoning attacks. Those are kind of

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common. How do those things happen. Do you know about things? Yeah,

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I mean, in essence you have
with DNS When I do a query,

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I go to a resolver, and
then that resolver query is something else.

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Well, if you can somehow poison
the cash inside that resolver with a

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bogus answer, then it will hold
on to it in its cash for a

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certain amount of time. And essentially
that's the attack vector, and dns SEC

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was designed to essentially stop it.
Both guys you implemented it think it's great.

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00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.119
Yeah, I this is I got
yelled at from a custom a customer

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00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:55.359
with a listener who says, you
know, you don't have dns SEC on

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your domains and stuff, And I
think I mentioned it to you, Anthony,

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and you're like, yeah, I
mean it's funny. The adoption of

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that protocol, which has been around
for quite a long time, has actually

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been a really rocky road, so
much so where you have new attempts at

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other ways of solving that same problem. But the problem, no matter what,

322
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is still the same. Right you
have to trust that the data from

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the originating authoritative name server has not
been tampered with, and the only way

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00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:26.400
you can do that is with cryptography. You have to have something that cryptographically

325
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signed or otherwise you cannot Ultimately,
you can't trust it now. And as

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soon as you involve certificates, ninety
nine percent of us go nope and walk

327
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away. Yeah, poison like poisoning
attacks, I think are probably ones that,

328
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yes, they happen. The ones
that really I think you'll hear about

329
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more often than not are just social
engineering. Yeah. I mean most often

330
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the way that you get at companies, or a way that the people that

331
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want to cause hav it get at
companies or individuals is by social engineering.

332
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They find a way through, Yeah, Phishing's one way. They find it

333
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through support channels. They do things
like that, and and that's actually one

334
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:06.680
of the reasons why in our core
training, nobody joins dan Simple without going

335
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through training on how to deal with
support. Yeah, and specifically, what

336
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:15.440
are the rules for accepting anything via
support? And they're very limited because we

337
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can't be sure that you are who
you are right unless you come into the

338
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app used multi factor authentication, then
we're probably you know, then the responsibilities

339
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.839
you we get it's a reasonable level
of confidence. You know. This is

340
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:30.799
another story from the wayback Machine,
Carl, but it came up the other

341
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:37.200
day, which was replay TV.
Oh do you remember TVO? Yeah,

342
00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:41.559
And of course TVO was the original. Replay TV was like their cheaper alternative,

343
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:45.200
cheaper alternative, none of which worked
in Canada. And I'm in Canada,

344
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.400
right, so I get it my
hands on a replay TV because I

345
00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.799
found a chunk of hacked software that
could run as the replay TV host.

346
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And so I just lie to the
replay TV with DNS to go, oh,

347
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your service right here. The next
she up in the rack, you

348
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know, running running Linux, where
I was able to scrap, you know,

349
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pull Canadian guide data and format correctly. I loaded in the replay TV.

350
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It was never the wiser Goodness knows, you never wanted to call home,

351
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right, just you could only call
to my little server world. You

352
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guys, you Canadians have been struggling
with TV metadata forever since you know you

353
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can't first came on dot net rocks
like in two thousand two. Well,

354
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:29.240
yeah, TV had to go away. It wasn't fixable, right, It's

355
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:33.319
just like let's say the old dice
in quote. It was easier. It's

356
00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:37.079
easier to put Wi Fi everywhere to
make a good disconnected client. Right.

357
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.960
The answer was actually what if there
was no TV anymore? Yeah? Does

358
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TV even exist? Our companies still
broadcasts out on the waves currently, don't

359
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.759
know. Yeah, from what I
understand, I haven't done it, but

360
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from what I understand, you can
put it up an antenna and HD a

361
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:03.039
digital antenna and get an HD signal
from the signal air madness. What is

362
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:06.880
this stuff? But you know you
can only get the probably if you're in

363
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:08.359
next to a major city, you
know, four or five channels. Yeah,

364
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.160
you know, if you want to
relive the seventies, which I would

365
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:15.720
not, but at least, dude, I had I had an antenna that

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00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.880
we had to had a little dial
and you had to click it and like

367
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like a compass, and then you
could hear it going in different places.

368
00:24:25.039 --> 00:24:29.000
That's how old I am. Nice
all right, So the insect's never gone

369
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:33.960
anywhere. Our app is now going
to replace U who is? So I

370
00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:37.759
mean we're inching towards more secure things. I think in general we've been moving

371
00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.799
towards certainly, you know, I
know for you guys, is securing the

372
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domains because once when once the domain
gets hijack, you got problems like that.

373
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which
is why we We've been one of

374
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the I think as the technology has
improved for adding multi factor authentication, we've

375
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been adopting it ahead of pretty much
almost every other registrar. So you can

376
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even use hardware keys with the in
Simple Now you can of course use two

377
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:06.599
factor off tokens. We don't let
you use your phone because frankly, it's

378
00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:11.559
too easy to hijack SMS. So
but we have these multiple layers of security.

379
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:15.400
We also since we last talked,
we've added multi team member security.

380
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:19.680
You can have give team members access
to only specific domains. You can give

381
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:22.359
them access only to the DNS side
of it, or also to the domain

382
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:27.119
registration side of it. So we've
put a lot of thought and energy into

383
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.200
how you secure those domains, and
we're going to keep doing so. Like

384
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.960
this is it's an important part of
what we do. Are our key elements

385
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:38.200
are security and also of course good
support and then making sure that we have

386
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:41.400
a good API so that you can
do all kinds of things with us.

387
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.759
And that's another thing that changed too. Because we now have API tokens you

388
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:48.680
can you can easily rotate and you
can have multiple API tokens with different names.

389
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.079
You can give them access to limited
resources. So it's come a long

390
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.359
ways since ten years ago, now
as I would hope it would. You

391
00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:00.759
know, here's another great success story
for DNS simple. A friend of mine

392
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:07.279
had a slow Paddy domain that he
wanted to that he registered that I wanted

393
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:11.279
to take over and vice versa.
So I had him create an account at

394
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:12.640
dan Simple, and once he had
that account, I just like it a

395
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:15.359
button. Oh yeah, transfer to
this guy. Here's his email address.

396
00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:18.799
Boom done, and then he can
take it from there, and it's like

397
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:23.319
so easy. Why isn't it that
easy everywhere else? Well, and we

398
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:29.519
so when it comes to transferring from
one provider to another, it's actually still

399
00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:34.640
really hard and it's not really a
secret. But in addition to supporting az'rein

400
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:41.480
Route fifty three, we also took
the time to integrate with GoDaddy's API specifically

401
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.880
so you can connect to it and
pull down your domain registration information from that

402
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:49.599
and so now you can actually see
your GoDaddy domains and you can click transfer

403
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:52.880
from GoDaddy Indian Simple and we'll handle
everything for you. You know, I'd

404
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:59.680
much rather do that than go through
their painful, like suicidal risk slashing process.

405
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:04.839
Yeah. Yeah, so something it
is still hard today because the industry

406
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:08.440
unfortunately put a lot of energy into
making it hard. Early on, they

407
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:12.119
said, you know, there was
a small group of companies they didn't really

408
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.440
want to trade between each other,
so like, okay, for security reasons,

409
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:19.119
we'll put up these barriers that had
little to do with security and more

410
00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:25.359
to be a barriers. I often
question whether the early decisions really had Obviously

411
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:27.799
there was some good intention, but
there was also I think some pushing in

412
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:32.079
the direction of let's make sure to
make it a little difficult so that we

413
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:34.720
encourage people to stay where they are, and it should be mobile. Honestly,

414
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:38.480
domain name should be easily mobile between
providers, right plane and some Yeah,

415
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:42.279
absolutely so. I mean the core
product here, the control plane,

416
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:45.680
is just being able to see wherever
your DNAs resources live everywhere. But there's

417
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:49.319
sort of an inceptional part of this
because you also provide an API to d

418
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:52.920
and Simple so that I could integrate
it into my own workflows too, Like

419
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:56.599
yep, it's just it's like,
well, what front end would you like?

420
00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:02.400
Yeah, pretty much exactly exactly.
Yeah, we've we've done We've done

421
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:06.799
integrations with Terraform, with chef,
We've done we've done quite a few API

422
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:10.559
clients, so it's a nine different
languages now. And the idea is that

423
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:12.920
at the small scale, if you're
if it's if it's me and I have

424
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:15.240
a few domains, I just want
to go through the UIO, that's fine.

425
00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:19.880
That's one. But if I'm running
five hundred domains or six hundred domains

426
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:23.640
or ten thousand domains, it's UIs
impossible, right, So you should be

427
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:26.279
able to work equally well with either
one of those. I just like the

428
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.759
idea of just your it's in your
CICD pipeline, that okay, we're changing

429
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.480
these server ips to this now that
it's just part of the automation, and

430
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:38.240
I don't there's no exceptions there.
The network guy isn't called separately for a

431
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:42.000
rollout, Like if we're really going
to push six, ten, fifteen times

432
00:28:42.039 --> 00:28:47.240
a day, you know it better
not involve calling anybody. So yeah,

433
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:49.599
and we still have a lot of
people that come to us and say I

434
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:53.559
want to move to DAN Simple,
but it's really hard because I have to

435
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:57.599
send an individual email for each domain
that I want to make a change on

436
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:03.279
to customers at some company. That's
from nineteen ninety seven right, and they

437
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:07.000
just and they can't even move it. So we've been trying to think how

438
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:08.680
the heck do we make that easier
as well. So this is this is

439
00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:11.400
where all of this originated from.
As we keep saying, there's a lot

440
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.400
of ways that it's still really hard. I bet we can still do better

441
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.519
now. You know, you almost
feel like you know why did word win

442
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:22.680
over word Perfect because some early on
word read and wrote word perfect files.

443
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.680
The idea that you built a console
now and the crazy part of the word

444
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.920
perfect story, if you ever go
deeper into it, is at one point

445
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:36.160
word Perfect wrote their own format and
word could fix it. So it's like,

446
00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:37.720
hey, are you using word perfect
and they've just updated that. I

447
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:40.759
think it was like four point three
or something, and it now it doesn't

448
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:42.880
work correctly. If you're running the
word It's fine. I just remember that

449
00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:48.799
what you've just described to me is
the battle that I had the days of

450
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.720
trying to get DNS entries out of
netsaw and into you. Now, I

451
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:57.559
would set up in the control plane
and point to where whatever service that currently

452
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.440
existed and say, okay, let's
start moving those and you'll do the nitty

453
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.680
gritty. Yeah, that's the that's
the vision. You know. The challenge,

454
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.079
of course, is going to be
very few providers have an API,

455
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:11.920
and if they do, it doesn't
even work well. And these are dangerous

456
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.519
APIs, because this is what this
is about, stealing domains like these are

457
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.079
dangerous APIs. I want to hear
more about the control plane, but let

458
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.920
us take a quick break and we'll
be right back after these messages don't go

459
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:29.759
away, and we're back. You're
listening to dot net Rocks. I'm Carl

460
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:33.119
Franklin, that's Richard Campbell. Howdy. We're here with our friend Anthony Eden

461
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:34.519
from DAN Simple. And by the
way, if you don't want to hear

462
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:40.839
ads, you can subscribe to Patreon
Patreon, dot dot netroocks dot com.

463
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:45.799
Be a patron and you can get
an AD free feed and it's not all

464
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:49.720
that much money. And we were
talking, we were just getting back into

465
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.640
talking about the control plane, and
I think it kind of went over my

466
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:59.119
head a little bit, but because
probably because I don't mess with multiple you

467
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:03.480
know, domain providers like I'm the
DN simple guy all the way. But

468
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.000
can you give us some scenarios in
which this new control plane is going to

469
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:12.359
be really helpful? Sure? Sure. So one straightforward example is you want

470
00:31:12.359 --> 00:31:15.759
to run on multiple providers. You
want to run your DNS on both as

471
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:18.279
your end route fifty three because you
don't want to put all your eggs in

472
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.720
one basket. Right now, when
you say run your DNS, you mean

473
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:25.960
a DNS server, No, I
actually mean your authoritative zones. So you

474
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.720
want to use as yours cloud DNS
and you want to use route fifty three,

475
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.119
which is Amazons as your secondary,
okay, or and the notion of

476
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:38.240
secondary is kind of it's moot,
like these are really multiple providers, and

477
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.359
maybe you also want to run on
DN simple. Well, you want a

478
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:45.039
single interface for seeing all that you
can do that. So that's one example.

479
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:48.839
And when you say that, do
you you mean I would still have

480
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:52.920
my domain registered at DN simple,
but I would have these authoritative providers on

481
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:56.680
different clouds. Is that the idea? Good? Yeah, it's an option.

482
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.279
You can also run it through us
as well. I think what we're

483
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:04.799
what we're accepting here is that everybody
has different needs. Right some folks,

484
00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:09.839
their operational team says, we need
you to run on as your plan simplest

485
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:16.039
that there's no other option. But
maybe doing that constantly is not working out

486
00:32:16.039 --> 00:32:20.920
great for them from an interface standpoint
because they find it complicated or what have

487
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:22.880
you. And they have team members
who have used DAN Simple. Well,

488
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:27.440
now they can just keep using DAN
Simple even though they're managing those assets over

489
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.839
there. It's another example as well. Sometimes different departments have different needs.

490
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:35.559
Right, so maybe your core operations
are going to be on one of the

491
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:40.319
major cloud providers, but maybe your
marketing team who's spinning up sites regularly,

492
00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:45.119
they need something that's faster. They
need something that's relatively reasonably priced that they

493
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:46.680
can get in and do it and
get out quick and get everything set up

494
00:32:46.720 --> 00:32:50.640
in one shot. They'd rather do
it on DAN Simple than have to go

495
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:53.440
through putting it on Azure. But
you still want to have a unified interface

496
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:55.759
to see all of this and to
manage all of this. And that's the

497
00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:00.200
idea behind the domain control plan.
Now I can imagine a marketing team team

498
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:07.119
cranking out subdomains constantly for every promotion, right it's you know special Spring Special

499
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:13.039
twenty four dot dot at rocks dot
com, and and you do subdomains are

500
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:15.640
even even even domains because with all
the TL these now you have so many

501
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:21.359
choices you can do these you can
do these custom domains that are that are

502
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:23.559
on some TLD that's going to be
for a limited time. Yeah right,

503
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:25.720
and that's totally okay. Yeah,
and you again, you might be at

504
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:29.920
a separate provider, might be a
different set of services, like I've certainly

505
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:34.440
been dealing now with companies where it's
not just that they have a WS and

506
00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:38.480
Azure and on prem and other,
but now they're expecting the transactions to coordinate

507
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:40.480
between them. Yeah. Yeah,
but they want it. They want a

508
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:45.640
message bys system to speak to them
all. And so the pipeline's complicated,

509
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:47.559
and you're editing up with each of
these interfaces to deal with each of these

510
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:51.440
things. Anything that might be simply
by that for me, I'm excited to

511
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:55.279
look at this question might be more
of a selfish self interest thing. But

512
00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:00.720
so I don't often get to talk
to an expert like you once you know

513
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:06.480
on these things. So answer me
this, is there any reason why anyone

514
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:10.519
should not use a TTL of sixty
seconds? Yes, there is why.

515
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:15.760
So the if you're using a TTL
with sixty seconds, you're going to be

516
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.239
constantly hitting the surface, constantly hating
the surfer. Dennis is not a fault

517
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:24.119
proof protocol with UDP, it was
never designed to be. And so you're

518
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:28.760
going to have slower responses most likely
because you're not going to be taking advantage

519
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.599
that cash that's out at the edge. So because you have multiple cashing layers,

520
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:37.360
right, and that matters in many
cases, the difference between having your

521
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:40.159
customer potentially who say, let me
just give an example, if your customer

522
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:45.920
is somewhere in Asia, they might
be routed and a very complex route to

523
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:49.039
get a DNS query out to one
of our name servers, even though our

524
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.599
name servers in Tokyo or Singapore.
Yeah, they have a cash right,

525
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:55.119
yeah, right, And so cash
helps that the minute you do it down

526
00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:59.320
to sixty seconds, you bust those
cashes pretty much constantly. Yeah, who

527
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:01.199
wants to sixty second d and as
cash And most of my even most of

528
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:06.480
my fail over systems were really in
the five to ten minute range more than

529
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:08.760
like an hour. Well on the
only problem there is that if you need

530
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:12.719
to update something now, you have
to wait ten minutes, right, So

531
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:15.480
is the way to do it to
you set it to ten minutes and then

532
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:19.639
when you're going to update it,
you send it to a minute. Wait

533
00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:24.119
ten minutes, then change it.
Maybe everything gets repopulated, and then go

534
00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:29.920
back to ten minutes. I think
that's a smart way of doing it if

535
00:35:29.960 --> 00:35:32.360
you want to make sure that the
change, the switchover happens quickly. Yeah,

536
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:35.719
then that's definitely the approach you want
to do. You want to shorten

537
00:35:35.719 --> 00:35:39.400
that TTL just when you're doing that
change. Alternatively, you allow the fact

538
00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:44.239
that there's going to be two systems
running at once. You design for that

539
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:46.880
case, and you allow that to
happen. Naturally, resolve any of the

540
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:52.119
things that happen during that transition using
whatever you have in your back end implementation,

541
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:53.360
and you move on, and then
you don't even have to worry about

542
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:57.199
those TTLs. See. You know
this is probably stuff Richard talks about on

543
00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.400
run as radio, but I don't
get to talk about this stuff much.

544
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:04.159
Yeah, we were talking about moving
over to a multiple you know, to

545
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.199
a replacement scale site. You know, we talk about the drain. Right,

546
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:10.360
we'd set up the new entries,
the old system would remain running and

547
00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:14.440
we just keep shutting down services.
But you'd have to wait till you hadn't

548
00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:16.519
had a ping for an hour before
you turn the last one off. So

549
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:21.159
it's like, now every TTL is
drained, do you shut that off?

550
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:23.280
Yep? Yeah, yeah. We've
had to do the same thing as well

551
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:27.960
over the years, numerous times where
we've had to sort of slowly spin down

552
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:31.199
some service that we've had, and
we have to I mean even today we're

553
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:35.960
still dealing with it some legacy IP
addresses that we have assigned to name service

554
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.440
that almost nobody uses, but somebody's
using it and we don't want to disrupt

555
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:43.119
them. So we just really like
when we think of when we think of

556
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.800
terms of transitions, it's offully often
in terms of years right transitioning things,

557
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:52.639
and it adds a whole other layer
of complexity because you have to keep that

558
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:55.440
transition happening plainly. But man,
it sure is nice when stuff just keeps

559
00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:59.360
working for the customer, right,
Like ultimately that's how we see it is.

560
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:01.519
It's just they shouldn't even know.
This is one of the nice things

561
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:06.079
about the cloud environment is like,
eventually I've wound this down to a single

562
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:10.519
small instance that's costing me five bucks, awad me, I'll keep that going.

563
00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:14.559
That's fine until it hasn't been hit
for a long time. You remember

564
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:16.719
those days, Richard, when we
would spin up a new sequel server when

565
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:21.599
we ever we had a new podcast. Yeah what though, you did not?

566
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:25.360
Oh your own v ms? Yeah
yeah, they don't do that anymore,

567
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:30.039
has no databases. It's just yeah, me too nice. I had

568
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:34.239
to unlearn that behavior, the joy
of the joy of text of text files,

569
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:39.320
right, absolutely. You know how
often a podcast entry changes? Never?

570
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:44.320
You make it once and it never
changes. Why is it in a

571
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.239
dynamic data store? Yeah? Yeah. All of our so our blog at

572
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:52.079
the in simple, our support pages, our developer pages are all static sites

573
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:57.400
and they're all generated with a static
site generator. And what a difference.

574
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:00.440
It just makes things so much easier
to to keep running that you just don't

575
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:04.159
have to think about it, right
because there's no there's nothing to break.

576
00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:07.440
Yeah, here's another gotcha. When
you register a domain name or a web

577
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:13.440
app in Azure, you don't want
that IP address to change. And if

578
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:17.800
you don't get a static IP address
or something, it could just change and

579
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.599
then one day your site's down.
You go to Azure portal. Oh the

580
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:27.119
IP address is different. That's fun. Wow, it feels like that's the

581
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:30.079
thing. Ask me how I know
it? How do you know? I

582
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:32.920
think I know exactly how you know
about But it feels like that's the thing

583
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.000
where this is an example back to
that original comment in the beginning, that

584
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:42.760
should just be automated. Yeah,
if if that address changes, then something

585
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:46.079
like in our case, a web
hook gets fired. Plus if the name

586
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:50.039
is in as you're already it should
just update, right. But even if

587
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:52.599
it's outside of Azure, there should
be a web hook that's fired that something

588
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:53.840
else can pick up. Which I
mean, that's one of the reasons I

589
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:59.639
moved my DNS for run as because
it was running in an Azure app service

590
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:04.000
over to the as your side.
Because you don't really have control over your

591
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.719
IP address as an Azure they do, so if you hook the whole thing

592
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.400
together, they do that for you. I'm sure there's this solution. It's

593
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:14.519
just six pages of work I didn't
have to do, just move the DNS.

594
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:15.559
Yeah, you know what the solution
is, Like, we'll let it

595
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:20.000
do what I do. Run a
PowerShell script that runs every hour that checks

596
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:22.239
the website to make sure it's up
and looks for some valid data that's coming

597
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:25.280
out of your data store. I
see the shape of your hammer there,

598
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:29.760
dude. You know, but this
is a great use. This is an

599
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.559
example of where the Azure integration actually
might make sense in d N Simple because

600
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:37.559
you can leave that DNS zone over
there, but you can see it inside

601
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:39.360
of the en Simple next to all
your other zones. And not only you

602
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.559
see it, but let's say you
wanted to add some subdomain to it.

603
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:45.519
You can actually do that from inside
d and Simple, and it'll synchronize the

604
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:50.199
two together. What less time in
the asure portal? Are you crazy?

605
00:39:50.679 --> 00:39:53.480
Yeah? I know, Mantain's right. How do I get this lovely new

606
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:57.679
feature? Where do I go?
How do I get it? How do

607
00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:00.079
I turn it on? Just just
log in? Just log in and turn

608
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.039
it on. It's under your account. If you log in, you can

609
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.599
take a look and there should be
on any domain. You'll also see ways

610
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:13.119
to turn on various connectors. So
yeah, it's we call these integrated providers.

611
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:15.400
You can turn them on either on
the domain level or on the app

612
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:20.920
level, and once they're hooked up, essentially they do bidirectional sync. Right,

613
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:23.880
that's beautiful. You just had a
thumbs up bubble up here right over

614
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:27.559
you? Is that your I know? Is that an iPhone feature? But

615
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:29.800
it was weird because I was scratching
my shoulder, and I'm like, why

616
00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:31.320
is it? You're scratching your shoulder
with your thumb up, and all of

617
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:34.760
a sudden, you see these thumbs
up coming over your head. What is

618
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.840
that? I can't get that to
work. When I try to get it

619
00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:40.440
to work, it never works.
It only works if I do a gesture

620
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:44.880
that I'm not intending to make that
show Apple. This technology is getting too

621
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:49.719
complicated, it's getting weird. Yeah, it should be more simple, right,

622
00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:52.800
that's what I think. All right, So tell us about pricing.

623
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:55.480
What are we looking at for using
this new tool? Okay, so that's

624
00:40:55.519 --> 00:41:00.599
actually really cool news. If you're
on our solo plan, you don't pay

625
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:04.360
anything for it. Wow, whoa
way, that's hard to argue. And

626
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:08.679
then so last year we changed our
pricing so we move more to usage based

627
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:12.840
pricing, which is essentially you only
pay for the zones that you use,

628
00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:15.840
you pay for the query volume that
you use if you're on a Solar A

629
00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:21.519
team's plan. And then we decided
that for the domain control plane, that

630
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:23.599
for connections to domains elsewhere, for
now, we're not going to charge anything.

631
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:28.199
We're going to give it to everybody
whoever is it then simple no charge

632
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.800
for it, So you can start
hooking up today with no additional charge.

633
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.280
And if you use us for DNS, then the zones you use you'll pay

634
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:36.840
for those, but otherwise you don't. I can't argue with that. Man.

635
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:39.239
Wow, great, it's very nice. Yeah, we'll let it go.

636
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:44.440
Is there anything that we missed in
terms of the control plane? I

637
00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:46.920
think the only thing that I'd really
love to know, and this is going

638
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:51.239
to be something that our customers and
whether new or old, are going to

639
00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:54.480
tell us, is where do we
go next with you? What providers are

640
00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:59.079
really ones that you'd love to see
us integrate with? Tell Us just reach

641
00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:00.320
out to support a dance dot com
and say, hey, I use this

642
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:02.840
provider. I would love it if
you add one, or in the app

643
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:07.360
when you select providers, and there's
an option for you don't have my provider,

644
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:08.320
and you can tell us which provider
you want us to use. So

645
00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:13.800
I see three essential services here.
We only talked about two of them early,

646
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:17.199
the registration, the DNS. The
third one is certif is SSL,

647
00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:22.920
t LS, yeah, SERTs,
which still is I mean, let's encrypt

648
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:25.280
has made it better for no other
reasons, so much better actually as your

649
00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:30.599
sert is genius, right, actually, as your managed SERTs are free.

650
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:32.800
Yeah, well it's the let's encrypt
SERTs. But it's just like, yeah,

651
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.000
but let's encrypt is kind of has
a little root gold set mechanism.

652
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:40.000
Yeah, I did that and then
it stopped. Now that's the beauty of

653
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:45.920
it. It again, you don't. So for example, our redirection service

654
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:52.559
terminates HDPS connections using let's encrypt certificates
and does automatic rotation of those certificates,

655
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.000
hooks into your DNS so that it
puts I mean, it just handles everything.

656
00:42:55.440 --> 00:43:00.719
And that really Let's encrypt has changed
the game around certificate that time.

657
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:05.320
I can't I know why some people
still hold on to this idea that they

658
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:07.800
want to have a certificate for a
year or two years, which, by

659
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:09.000
the way, now you can't do
more than two. Yes, you used

660
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:13.960
to really get twenties, Yeah,
nottymore. Now they keep getting short,

661
00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:16.800
and eventually I think it's going to
keep getting shorter and shorter. Because automation

662
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:22.400
is amazing. Yeah. It makes
it so that if you can do something

663
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:27.280
in automated fashion, scheduled or unscheduled, it means you have the ability to

664
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.360
fix stuff really fast, yep,
because if something goes wrong outside of your

665
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:34.119
control, you can essentially put things
back the right way. I love having

666
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:37.400
things in Azure because I'm already authenticated, you know. That's why I love

667
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.800
these managed certificates, because I don't
have to go through a third party provider

668
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:45.519
improved to them. I am who
I say I am. I'm already authenticated

669
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.360
through Azure. They know me,
like, yes, that's me, I

670
00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:55.000
logged in giving a certificate. Automated
certificates, being in front of services was

671
00:43:55.559 --> 00:43:59.599
really something we should have done a
long long time ago. I'm super happy

672
00:43:59.639 --> 00:44:04.039
to see that the that it's been
adopted so widely now. And and if

673
00:44:04.039 --> 00:44:07.280
you're using a provider that it provides
any kind of hosting and they don't automate

674
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:10.599
that, I just it makes me
wonder why, like get on their backs

675
00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:14.559
and say automated. Yeah, yeah, so, And I can see obviously

676
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:17.280
your path forward is being able to
pull from more registration sources, being able

677
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:21.280
to connect to more DNS service.
We can argue whether any you need more

678
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:22.599
seerts or not, because once you
get the leeds of grip, you're got

679
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:27.719
it done. So and I don't
know there's another service area you got to

680
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.000
go. So there's obviously the increasing
in each of those three areas, but

681
00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:34.480
is there another area to add?
I'd say just you know, training and

682
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:38.639
education is in Your blogs are great
for that, your blog posts, but

683
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:43.679
you know, just keeping your customers
because when your customers know what they're doing,

684
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:46.159
you're they're going to be a lot
happier. But you know, DNS,

685
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:50.719
if you're just you know, if
you're just coming into the IT world,

686
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.719
it can be it can be overwhelming. I'm digging into stuff like static

687
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:58.039
stores, so yeah, you know, because I have this problem now right

688
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:00.079
that I stick it in blob storage
and ash or is it seeing an S

689
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:05.840
three bin somewhere? Yeah, we've
talked about so. One of the things

690
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:09.159
we've talked about off and on over
the years is do we want to move

691
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:14.480
beyond the domain protocols? Right?
Obviously with certificates, we did that already

692
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:17.320
to some small extent. Yeah,
they're directly related to domain protocols. Yeah,

693
00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:22.480
but for example, cashing, you
know, basically cashing of HDP is

694
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:27.239
a very common next step. Yeah. Our biggest concern is that it changes

695
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:30.559
the dynamics of the type of traffic
we're handling, and all of a sudden,

696
00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:35.800
we're handling actual content, and that
steps over a line where you start

697
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:40.400
dealing with with copyright infringement, you
know, takedown notices, yeah, real

698
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:43.920
time effects, yeah, all of
that sort. Yeah, and so and

699
00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:45.960
so that's one of those things that
we've always said, you know, what

700
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:50.039
our business is about domains. We
really want that to be our core business,

701
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:53.280
and so we're going to make the
best business of that and keep making

702
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:59.159
that better. And we've stuck to
our guns for almost it'll be fifteen years

703
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:00.599
now, wow, next year?
Now does that mean you're going to go

704
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:04.280
all in on our app? So
our DEPP is a requirement. Ever,

705
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:07.440
anybody who's a registrar is going to
have to run our app because our DAP

706
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:09.559
essentially makes it so instead of having
this public you know, text file that

707
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:14.920
people are looking at, they actually
are you're allowed to have limits to who

708
00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:16.519
can see what. So, for
example, law enforcement's going to be able

709
00:46:16.519 --> 00:46:20.840
to see one level, the general
populations will be able to see another level.

710
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:23.239
Other registrars and registries will be able
to see different levels. And so

711
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:29.119
information privacy, which is becoming a
really big thing in most places in the

712
00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:31.320
world that actually is going to be
built into the protocol, whereas and who

713
00:46:31.400 --> 00:46:35.800
is it was just like, here's
a text file and what goes in it

714
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:39.280
is completely random. Woo yeah,
scrape orama. So only lawn only law

715
00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:45.400
enforcement can see backdoor dot dot NetRocks
dot com, honeypot dot dot NetRocks dot

716
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:50.840
com. I mean, if enough
people came to us and said, we

717
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:53.719
really want this thing. So domain
registration didn't exist in the first version of

718
00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:57.519
DNS. Right when I launched in
twenty ten, it was just DNS.

719
00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:00.800
And the only reason domain registry was
added Indian symbol is because a bunch of

720
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:05.480
people who I knew came in and
said, the main registration is terrible.

721
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:07.679
Can you please just do something about
it. Yeah, you made DNS nots

722
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:12.159
suck. Can you make registration not
suck too? Yes? And I said

723
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:15.440
okay, And that has continued the
hell of domain registration that will not leave

724
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:20.880
my life real they ever will.
I think you a first slow Patty,

725
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:24.880
Weren't you at first? I personally
was. We originally built on another provider,

726
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:29.599
and we've since changed things behind the
scenes several times because the world keeps

727
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:31.119
changing. Like I said, that's
the other thing about these SERTs, right

728
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:35.679
is we're constantly having the root domain
hacks and things like you don't want a

729
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:37.599
long duration cert when he's like,
that's not a valid cert anymore. It's

730
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:42.960
dangerous. And that's another reason also
why we rotate DNS set keys automatically,

731
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:45.960
which which very few people do.
And we do it because we basically took

732
00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:51.599
that same concept that that let's encrypt
made popular and said we're gonna do the

733
00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:54.119
same thing for DNA sex right done, And as long as we can hook

734
00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:58.760
into a registrar that'll allow us to
rotate those keys automatically, they will be

735
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:01.159
rotated automatically. There's not a choice. Yeah, and which really means are

736
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:07.079
there is are infrastructure up to automatically
replace those routinely because that's that that's our

737
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:10.880
best chance to resist these attacks,
is that the keys are constantly changing.

738
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:15.079
Yeah, and if it could,
because if you're halfway, let's say you're

739
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:17.719
thirty days into a ninety day window
and you do have some sort of a

740
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:22.000
breach, run the rotation right now. Yeah, problem solved, key,

741
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:27.159
you know, compromise key gone granted. Problem solved might be you have other

742
00:48:27.199 --> 00:48:30.840
issues, like how do you let
your keys get compromised, but at least

743
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:34.159
you're taking a one step towards a
little bit more security than you would if

744
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:38.239
you're sitting there. And while who
Bob down in accounting I think has the

745
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:44.920
certificate usually a password on his U
notepad on his desk. Can you go

746
00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:49.400
grab that? Bob, Accounting gets
a bad rap on this show. Sorry,

747
00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:57.239
always always counting. It's not his
fault, there is. God has

748
00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:00.639
to say no more often really does
yes. He When Alice comes and says,

749
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:02.559
Bob, can you do this?
Bob needs to go. Not a

750
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:08.079
chance. Where the hell is my
red stapler? By the way, all

751
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:12.639
right, so before we go,
one other question, what is your experience

752
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:16.199
with c sharp if any? So
when we wrote the original API clients,

753
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:20.480
I went through it. I looked
at a little bit and played around with

754
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:23.360
it. That that's about the extent
of it. I grew up in the

755
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:27.199
world of Max. When I was
a kid, my dad had Max around

756
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.480
in backs VMS systems, so it
was it was it was really old school

757
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:34.400
or new school, and I never
really did the Windows thing. I spent

758
00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:38.840
a few years writing Java on Windows
machines, but I've been mostly either Mac

759
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:42.440
or Linux guy for my entire life, so I hadn't had much a need

760
00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:45.199
for c sharp, but you know
c sharp runs on Mac and Lenux.

761
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:50.039
Now it's okay. I do know. There's probably a lisp guy, right.

762
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:53.679
I did have some time with closure, as shown in my bio.

763
00:49:53.880 --> 00:50:00.000
I did like Lisp, but Erlang
is still my favorite language. There's something

764
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:02.800
about Erlang that every time I use
it, it makes me go, aw,

765
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:07.639
this is so much fun. This
is such a great language because it's

766
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:10.599
so different than anything else out there. Yeah, it's that functional thinking mindset.

767
00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:15.079
In any I meet Haskell people like
that too. They're just delighted with

768
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:20.039
what they've written. I just love
I love the way how functions in Erlang

769
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:22.599
are. They basically accept the shape
of the data that they shape, and

770
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:27.239
you have different variations of them that
they accept different data that shape differently,

771
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:30.079
And I just there's just something about
it that it's like, man, that's

772
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:34.320
such an elegant way of handling some
of these problems. So granted, if

773
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:36.679
don't look at me anymore to write
code, because I've written a lot of

774
00:50:36.679 --> 00:50:38.159
bad code in my life anymore,
and I no longer try to make it

775
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:42.800
pretty. So I'm not the best
first thing, but it's still my favorite.

776
00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:45.719
It's also not like a vegan militant
about it, you know what I

777
00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:49.480
mean. You know, whatever you
want to do, it's fine. We

778
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:52.280
just want to handle your domains.
Yeah, A couple a couple of years

779
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:53.960
back, we did. We did
the advent of code and I wrote everything

780
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:57.719
in C plus plus. Wow,
So why the heck not? You know,

781
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:01.880
just it's fun. There's nothing to
me. And this is one of

782
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:05.400
the things that I have to say
that as we move more and more towards

783
00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:07.920
a world where code assist tools based
on AI are going to be part of

784
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:13.920
a normal developer's daily routine, I'm
saddened a little bit by it because I

785
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:16.320
love writing code, and honestly,
there's going to get to a point here

786
00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:21.360
where we will not write much code
anymore. We'll still be thinking in systems

787
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:24.199
unless we want to. Like I
for me, it's better than doing puzzles.

788
00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:27.199
I mean yeah, I mean too. I love it. I love

789
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:30.320
it, and I hope right now
I spend almost all my time just running

790
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:34.840
and simple and thinking about the business
and things like that. I hope someday

791
00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:37.960
I'll be able to retire from running
the business and focus again writing code because

792
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.960
it's just such a such an enjoy. Well, you're doing something right because

793
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:46.119
for these fifteen or whatever years that
we've been using your services, it's been

794
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:51.960
a dream. So it's a great
it's a really good team who highly recommended,

795
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:53.639
who really focuses on stuff and I
appreciate that. Thank you again,

796
00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:57.840
Carl for being a customer and Richard
for being a customer for seco to your

797
00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:00.639
team and they do great show they
do. And you'll have to come back

798
00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:04.480
in another ten years and tell us
what you will be to it's a deal.

799
00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:07.920
If we're still around in ten years
and still kicking, and y'all are

800
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:10.159
still kicking, we will do this
sooner, I'm sure. I hope so

801
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:13.519
well, I hope so you can. You can call me in any time.

802
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:16.000
I'm always having me to talk,
all right, cool anthy and thank

803
00:52:16.000 --> 00:52:20.239
you very much for spending this time
with us, and uh wow, great

804
00:52:20.280 --> 00:52:22.480
stuff. This is my pleasure.
Thank you both, all right, and

805
00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:46.320
we'll see you next time. Dot
net rocks. Dot net Rocks is brought

806
00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:52.480
to you by Franklin's Net and produced
by Pop Studios, a full service audio,

807
00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:57.559
video and post production facility located physically
in New London, Connecticut and of

808
00:52:57.599 --> 00:53:02.239
course in the cloud online at ew
op dot com. Visit our website at

809
00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:07.199
d O T N E t R
O c k s dot com for RSS

810
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:12.159
feeds, downloads, mobile apps,
comments, and access to the full archives

811
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:15.199
going back to show number one,
recorded in September two thousand and two.

812
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:19.960
And make sure you check out our
sponsors. They keep us in business.

813
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:27.679
Now go write some code, See
you next time. You got jamddle Vans and