1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:05,679 How'd you like to listen to dot NetRocks with no ads? Easy? Become 2 00:00:05,679 --> 00:00:10,519 a patron For just five dollars a month you get access to a private RSS 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,560 feed where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month will get 4 00:00:14,599 --> 00:00:19,640 you that and a special dot NetRocks patron mug. Sign up now at Patreon 5 00:00:19,879 --> 00:00:24,280 dot dot NetRocks dot com. Hey, Carl and Richard here with your twenty 6 00:00:24,359 --> 00:00:28,920 twenty four NDC schedule. Will be at as many NDC conferences as possible this 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,359 year, and you should consider it tending no matter what. Ndcoslow is happening 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:38,600 June tenth through the fourteenth. Get your tickets at ndcoslow dot com. The 9 00:00:38,679 --> 00:00:43,679 Copenhagen Developers Festival happens August twenty sixth through the thirtieth. Early bird discount ends 10 00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:51,520 April twenty sixth. Tickets at Cphdevfest dot com. Ndcporto is happening October fourteenth 11 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:57,840 through the eighteenth. The early bird discount ends June fourteenth. Tickets at Ndcporto 12 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:14,200 dot com. And we'll see you there, we hope. Hey, welcome 13 00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:18,280 back to dot net rocks. I'm Carl Franklin and amateur Campbell our friend Anthony 14 00:01:18,439 --> 00:01:22,400 Eden from Dan Simple is here. But before we talk to him, Man, 15 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,280 it's been a while since we did any small talk or anything. What's 16 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:26,799 new in Vancouver. Well, I'm up in the coast now, I don't 17 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,719 live down the city anymore. And you know that you went to the original 18 00:01:30,719 --> 00:01:33,159 house, to the one that I sold I did last year, and you 19 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:34,480 know it had a bit of rack at it, you know, a couple 20 00:01:34,519 --> 00:01:38,439 of racks here and there, a rack you know, like the server racks. 21 00:01:38,439 --> 00:01:40,719 Oh racks, server racks. Yeah, and so now that I mean, 22 00:01:40,719 --> 00:01:42,439 you know, I thought you might have been talking about wine because you 23 00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:45,840 do that as well. No, I had had a bunch of those two, 24 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:47,799 but no, no, we're talking about the server racks. And so 25 00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:51,159 when it moved up here, I'm like, I'm deracifying my life. Good 26 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,560 for you, man, Yeah, so more cloud less rack, Well, 27 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,920 I mean, I got a lot of stuff in the cloud. But he 28 00:01:56,959 --> 00:01:59,760 still need a local network and you have to have a good one. So 29 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:01,480 yeah, yeah, you need to switch. I could have ended up with 30 00:02:01,519 --> 00:02:04,760 a couple of rack bounded switches and control of the stuff. I'm like, 31 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:07,319 no, no, I'm not doing it. I'm gonna stay small so I 32 00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:09,840 actually built it under the stairs, mounted to a piece of plywood. I 33 00:02:09,879 --> 00:02:14,919 love that Harry Potter style. So it's also flat and tidy, and I 34 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,000 can see all the blinky lights like it's all the features you want for rack, 35 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,360 no rack, I like that. That's very cool. Yeah, and 36 00:02:20,479 --> 00:02:23,840 about twenty four hours of ups on it too. I had a visitor this 37 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,759 weekend. Mister Mark Miller was at my house. I heard of that guy. 38 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,960 I heard they were in Connecticut, just him, Oh, okay, 39 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,360 yeah, no, the rest of the family is in Spain still. But 40 00:02:34,439 --> 00:02:40,280 he came, okay, and I od'd him on amazing Keto food. He 41 00:02:40,439 --> 00:02:45,120 could not stop talking about it. I mean, we had ribbis, we 42 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,439 had cheeseburgers, we had ice cream. Uh, it was great PASTRAMI awesome 43 00:02:50,479 --> 00:02:53,800 all right anyway, and nobody wants to hear about that. Let's get started 44 00:02:53,840 --> 00:03:04,520 with better no framework, we're all the music. Awesome, all right, 45 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,000 man? What do you got now? I don't remember if I talked about 46 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,560 this when it came out, but this was during the pandemic. It came 47 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:16,639 out. Oh, there's a great little tool called jitsy it and jitsy is 48 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:25,000 a free, open source sort of conference tool like Zoom, it's browser based 49 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:34,199 and it has a wonderful API and you can host your own server. And 50 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,199 so this article right here from build five nines, which is a great name. 51 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,120 I love that Build five nines dot com. I had a great blog. 52 00:03:42,159 --> 00:03:45,599 I read it all the time. Yeah, host private video meetings and 53 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,039 Azure with Jetsy and so all you really need is an Azure Linux VM. 54 00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:54,639 The software is free and it you know, it's open source. You have 55 00:03:54,719 --> 00:04:00,240 a chat, password protected, conference sessions, audio and video support for many 56 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:05,719 simultaneously connected users. And the really cool thing about it is there's no limit 57 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,240 to the length of a meeting. Nice, so you don't have to deal 58 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,560 with any of that. You just did pay for the VM. Yeah, 59 00:04:12,599 --> 00:04:14,319 you just have to pay for the VM. So, like, if you 60 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,800 wanted to set up cameras and stuff and like just have them always on boom, 61 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,040 no problem done. And it works on it works on phones. Cool. 62 00:04:23,079 --> 00:04:26,360 It's amazing. Oh and of course this article came out in April twenty 63 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,079 twenty when we were all trying to figure out Zoom at the same time. 64 00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:31,879 Yeah, that's right, and I did it around that time. I did 65 00:04:31,879 --> 00:04:40,439 a tour of the air space at the Air Force Museum in Daytona, Ohio 66 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:47,600 with our friend Clemens Vasters using an open zoom and we got bombed. How 67 00:04:47,639 --> 00:04:50,720 badly bombed did we get? I was recording it locally because we're going to 68 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,680 chop it up and use it. I suddenly I realized as we got the 69 00:04:55,399 --> 00:04:57,920 idiot out of there, that I now had child porn on my server. 70 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,920 Okay, so now I understand what you mean by bomb. Yeah, I 71 00:05:00,959 --> 00:05:04,040 don't know, because you know, Clemens likes beer. You like, no, 72 00:05:04,199 --> 00:05:09,399 godh kind of thing. Then again, you know, given twenty twenty 73 00:05:09,399 --> 00:05:12,839 four, you could have had actual bombs dropping on you. No, no, 74 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,079 not that part of the world, all right, So you got a 75 00:05:16,079 --> 00:05:19,319 cyber attack, yeah, effectively, but it was you know, that was 76 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,079 back when all that stuff was pretty insecure. It's all gotten better now, 77 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,600 but you know, no substitute for running your own right. But I do 78 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,480 remember the zoom bombs that people used to just jump in all of a sudden 79 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,560 twenty twenty Yeah, and you know, because there was no password protection, 80 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,480 that's right, because who needs that? We were all clumsy. This is 81 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:41,319 not that long ago, that's four years ago. Well that's what I got. 82 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,839 Who's talking to us today, Richard I grabbed a commentav of show UH 83 00:05:45,079 --> 00:05:47,920 eighteen eighty nine, the one we did with Magnus Martinsen. We were talking 84 00:05:47,959 --> 00:05:54,199 about Azure in general and across certain architectural points, and Rob had this great 85 00:05:54,199 --> 00:05:57,160 comedy say, this great show is always I have noticed, however, a 86 00:05:57,199 --> 00:06:01,279 common theme to a lot of Azure episodes. The developer is using it wrong. 87 00:06:01,519 --> 00:06:05,720 Close quote like what was that the jobs line about the iPhone? You're 88 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:11,360 holding it wrong. Usually this is related to Azure devs and amin's not removing 89 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,560 extra capacity or not understanding how to structure cloud resources versus on premi resources. 90 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,079 I think if you make a tool and the majority of really experienced tool users 91 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,360 hit their foot with it, maybe saying the users need to figure out how 92 00:06:23,399 --> 00:06:27,759 to not hit their foot with it is not the best corrective approach. Also, 93 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,439 telling devs you didn't do your homework is a bit of a cop out. 94 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,519 It's more likely the devs did try to do their homework. But maybe 95 00:06:33,519 --> 00:06:36,480 the documentation is not as clear as you might think it is, or the 96 00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:41,120 interface is not as clear either. I'm one hundred percent certainly the correct documentation 97 00:06:41,199 --> 00:06:46,839 is out there. Why you're optimism Rob, certainly the documentation out there is 98 00:06:46,879 --> 00:06:51,839 incorrect. It is likely somewhere in the hay stack of wrong and just irrelevant 99 00:06:51,879 --> 00:06:56,800 information is also out there. Improving Azure maybe less about improving code and more 100 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,079 about figuring out what the devs are using it for and doing wrong with it, 101 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,240 and improving the interfacer documentation to reduce those theres. You have called us 102 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,879 out, sir, and I read this for a reason. You are correct. 103 00:07:08,079 --> 00:07:13,040 You are one hundred percent correct. It shouldn't be so easy to do 104 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,480 this wrong. Yeah, yeah, right, and to fall into that trap. 105 00:07:15,519 --> 00:07:19,920 It should be easier to do it right. And that's all something we 106 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,120 should work towards. So Rob, thank you so much for your comment and 107 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,240 a copy of Music Cobi. It's on its way to you. And if 108 00:07:26,279 --> 00:07:29,360 you'd like a copy of Musico by write a comment on the website at dot 109 00:07:29,439 --> 00:07:31,199 at Rocks dot com or on the facebooks. We publish every show there, 110 00:07:31,279 --> 00:07:33,160 and if you comment there and to read in the show, we'll send you 111 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,959 a copy Music Coobi. And you can definitely follow us on Twitter if you 112 00:07:35,959 --> 00:07:40,000 want. We've been there for years, but the cool kids are now hanging 113 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,319 out on mastadon I'm at Carl Franklin at tech Hub dot social, and I'm 114 00:07:45,399 --> 00:07:47,759 rich Campbell at master dot social, and all the ways you can get in 115 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:53,720 touch with me are finally detailed at Carl Franklin dot com. Okay, let's 116 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,600 bring Anthony Eden back. It's only been ten years. Well, the we 117 00:07:58,759 --> 00:08:05,160 gentlemen he introduced, who formerly Anthony is the founder of dn simple and the 118 00:08:05,199 --> 00:08:09,879 perpetrator of numerous open source projects. He's also contributed to a wide variety of 119 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:16,360 open source projects over the past twenty plus years as a software developer using multiple 120 00:08:16,439 --> 00:08:20,639 languages including jab A, Python, Ruby, Closure, Go, and Erlang. 121 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,920 And yeah, welcome back, Anthony. I gotta tell the story again. 122 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,399 It was ten years ago. Tell the story, Carl. All right, 123 00:08:28,439 --> 00:08:30,839 So here's how we met Anthony. We were on a road trip, 124 00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:35,759 right, Richard. We are must have been the twenty ten Visual Studio twenty 125 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:39,720 ten, twenty twelve, I think twenty twelve. Okay, you would remember 126 00:08:39,759 --> 00:08:41,440 better than me, so anyway, m because it was the road trip to 127 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,360 never end right, thirty four cities. That was the big one. Yeah, 128 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,080 with numb nuts. So the numb Nuts was the nickname we gave our 129 00:08:48,159 --> 00:08:54,919 driver. That's a nice name. Yeah, well, anyway, So I 130 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:56,399 get an email because I'm you know, I'm at the table, I'm working, 131 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,600 I'm doing email the whole time. Richard's up in the passenger seat playing 132 00:09:00,639 --> 00:09:03,360 on this world and not talking to anybody. Go on a road trip with 133 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,399 your buddy Carl. He's like the most antisocial person ever. He's just playing 134 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:13,080 a game the whole time. But he won. I did well. He 135 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,480 came in number one on this game. Briefly, So I got this email 136 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:20,360 and it was from a company that I won't mention their name, but it 137 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:28,360 rhymes with slow Chatty. Okay. So this person at slow chatty dot com 138 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:31,279 says, hey, you know, we like your show. We would like 139 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,080 to advertise with you. And I read it to Richard, and Richard and 140 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,399 I looked at each other. It's like, we hate slowpatty dot com, 141 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:45,320 but we love Dansimple. So you know, I had just started because Scott 142 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:50,879 Hansman told us about dansimple, so I had your I don't know, I 143 00:09:50,879 --> 00:09:54,120 think I just sent it to sales at dansimple dot com and I forwarded the 144 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,320 email and I said, hey, we just got this email, but we 145 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,279 hate these guys, would you guys be interested in advertising this and I remember 146 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:09,120 you Your reply was continue he said, interesting pitch. Yeah, interesting pitch. 147 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:16,639 That's right. Go on. Now, I remember when you showed me 148 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,200 the original email from the company that show what you renamed, and he said, 149 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:22,039 what do you think of this? And I'm like, but they suck? 150 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,919 But they suw? Why would we do that? Why would why? 151 00:10:28,519 --> 00:10:31,960 Well, funny enough, they were they. I was using them, and 152 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,320 that was the origin of being simple because I was using them, and I 153 00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:37,799 said, this can't be as good as it gets. No, yeah, 154 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:41,200 it can't be. So I had all the knowledge I'd been working in a 155 00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:43,639 DNS and domain space for many, many years, and I said, all 156 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,559 right, I'm going to try to finally try to build something after seventeen years 157 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,879 of doing stuff with other people on this was your thing. Yeah, and 158 00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:52,639 that show we did back in twenty four two was really cool because you were 159 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,320 quite the polyglot then. Yeah, which I think today isn't that weird, 160 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,799 but at the time was pretty usual. Yeah. We did a lot of 161 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,440 unusual things. I mean that the remote working, for example, in twenty 162 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,960 fourteen, and still even today we're fully remote. We always have them, 163 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,639 which now it feels a lot more normal after COVID. You know a lot 164 00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:15,600 of people have learned how to work from home. We walked it right into 165 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,679 that with saying, well, this is how we already do business. This 166 00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:20,240 is normal. Yeah. Yeah, it's almost like you were born in the 167 00:11:20,279 --> 00:11:26,200 cloud company before it was really kind of cloudish, yet like you had that 168 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:28,440 style. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Having having run 169 00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:33,480 servers for a while, when I had the opportunity to no longer run servers, 170 00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:35,679 I said, I don't ever want to do that again. You and 171 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:41,080 me both brother, you can preach. So we started registering domains at Network 172 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:46,639 Solutions right as everybody did, you know. And I never used slow Patty, 173 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:50,559 but I tried once and it was just like, oh, this is 174 00:11:50,639 --> 00:11:54,600 ridiculous. But Network Solutions was ridiculous enough. Yeah, and on top of 175 00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:58,919 it, so the problem that you faced and we all faced, and the 176 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:03,320 reason why we love DNS is because the simple act of registering a domain and 177 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,240 changing things and oh god forbid, if you want to transfer it, Oh 178 00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:11,440 my god, they put you through all these things, and they put up, 179 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,440 you know, fake things that you can need to click on, and 180 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:18,879 then oh my god, I've just increased my subscription to five hundred dollars a 181 00:12:18,879 --> 00:12:24,720 month or whatever. Oh yeah, all a deceptive creditory. Yeah, the 182 00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:28,960 great thing about moving away from netsol was that they made it so arduous. 183 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,879 You're just so much keener to get it done. Yeah, right, like 184 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,200 you didn't make it hard for me to want to leave. And I'll tell 185 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,840 the story again, And I probably told this ten years ago, but I 186 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:45,320 was using dan Simple on my phone in the security line at an airport, 187 00:12:45,759 --> 00:12:50,759 configuring my email server for Google, and it were and I did it with 188 00:12:50,799 --> 00:12:54,879 one hand and it just worked nice. And I was like, well, 189 00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:00,279 this couldn't be any better. I mean, come on, yeah, I've 190 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:05,919 had nothing but great experiences longtime fans, Anthony, as you know, we've 191 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:11,519 been your customer for every and because you were always awesome, and I appreciate 192 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:13,840 that. I appreciate that. I'm glad that you all have stuck with us, 193 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:18,000 and hopefully we can keep your business for another ten years at least easily 194 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,399 easily. Yes, I am finally lapsing a few Donain names. I swore 195 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,120 I would do something with someday, like you know spring cleaning that I think 196 00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:28,440 everybody goes through that every once in a while and like, Okay, I'm 197 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,080 never going to do this again. I'm never And then they're like, oh, 198 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,519 but this I have this idea, Like o'clock in the morning, I'm 199 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,919 drunk and I registered dot net, cupcakes, dot com or something right, 200 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,519 and I'm like, why that? Did I do what I wanted? So 201 00:13:41,639 --> 00:13:46,960 funny, funny quick story. We almost built an iOS app for fast registering 202 00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:48,879 domains, which was going to brought up somebody said I got to be able 203 00:13:48,879 --> 00:13:52,879 to drunk domain and we almost built it. We went all the way through 204 00:13:52,879 --> 00:13:56,279 the design phase. We looked at it and I said, I said, 205 00:13:56,279 --> 00:13:58,759 folks, we can't build this because it's going to work. Yeah, right, 206 00:13:58,799 --> 00:14:01,799 and we're going to be part of a problem exactly, said I don't 207 00:14:01,799 --> 00:14:07,240 want to be part of that problem. Right. You are also the first 208 00:14:07,279 --> 00:14:11,720 person outside Google that I ever met that said that they built something real with 209 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,480 Go and the and simplest built on Go. Right, Yeah we have. 210 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,039 So we have. Our our core web app is still Ruby on Rails, 211 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,759 has been and will continue to be most likely. All of the systems that 212 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:30,200 kind of integrate everything together so that send data out to our edges and a 213 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,120 lot of the smaller sort of glue pieces. Those are all in GO and 214 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,759 then our name servers are in Airline. That's great, right yea, just 215 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:43,759 pure speed ye erlang. I mean Airline's great for building network toolkits essentially networking 216 00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:46,600 things. Is really great at taking packets apart and putting them back together. 217 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,039 Go is really good for gluing things together, super clear language, and we 218 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,639 have a lot of small utilities. And then Rails is still our web framework 219 00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:58,639 of choice. It is just such a good framework and it's even today it's 220 00:14:58,679 --> 00:15:00,759 it gets better each day. So that's all is a good sign. All 221 00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:03,279 right, So you're here to announce some new stuff that you have in the 222 00:15:03,279 --> 00:15:09,159 cloud and for the community. So last time, ten years ago, there 223 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,600 was like a c sharp API that you announced, right, well, so 224 00:15:11,679 --> 00:15:16,159 I think I think the c sharp API we announced back actually more recently. 225 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,080 It was about three or four years ago when we brought that out. I 226 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,360 think ten years ago we were still just talking about D and simples at its 227 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:26,679 early ages, right, Oh yeah, yeah, that's right. So it 228 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,840 wasn't that we had Enrique Cambro, I'll come on, yeah, talk about 229 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,799 the API. Yes, ye had you had Enrique on talking about that, 230 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,159 Okay, and so that was kind of the start. We always knew that 231 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,279 we wanted to sort of help and get involved in the Windows world a little 232 00:15:39,279 --> 00:15:45,600 bit, and we always saw Azure is something we wanted to somehow hook up 233 00:15:45,639 --> 00:15:48,879 to. Well. A couple of years back we started working on what we're 234 00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:50,799 calling our domain control plane, and the ideas is that you'd be able to 235 00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:54,879 not only manage your domains that are inside d and Simple and your dns there, 236 00:15:54,159 --> 00:16:00,399 but also your dns and other providers as well. And so early this 237 00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:04,519 year we started working on the Azure provider and we've launched that. So essentially 238 00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:08,080 now from within DAN Simple, you can hook up the Azure and you can 239 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,360 actually pull in your domains in are an Azure and manage them just like you 240 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,480 would your DN Simple domains, manage the DNS on them, ad records, 241 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:19,960 do all kinds of things, including through the API, so essentially you can 242 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,080 have a single place and not just asure. We also do Route fifty three 243 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,200 and Core dns as well, right, and so the idea is that you 244 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,840 have this unified interface for managing your domains even if you can't pull them into 245 00:16:30,919 --> 00:16:33,879 DN Simple, or if you want to manage them on multiple providers because now 246 00:16:34,039 --> 00:16:37,480 more and more people are using at least two different providers for redundancy. Say, 247 00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:40,679 so, does that mean when I create a new web app in Azure 248 00:16:40,679 --> 00:16:42,200 and I want to add a custom domain, I don't have to add text 249 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:48,840 records with asuid dot whatever to I mean, if you set up it for 250 00:16:48,919 --> 00:16:52,080 you, you could do that easily, right because you're in DAN simple. 251 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,799 You could set up a template for it or something like as put in. 252 00:16:55,559 --> 00:16:57,559 But even if you had it inside of Azure and you pulled that domain, 253 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,159 and you'd be able to apply that same thing saying over to that domain over 254 00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:04,559 an asker. And the idea is just if you're running authoritative DNS, some 255 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:10,039 part of your authoritative DNS on Azure, you should be able to manage that 256 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:11,599 from within d and simple. That's our opinion of Yeah, so that's where 257 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,440 the domain control plane is headed well. And you know, this is why 258 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,920 I read that comment from Rob too, because it hit me with the main 259 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,559 tech support calls I've ever made or ever had with DN simple is because I'm 260 00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:26,680 adjusting DNS entries on something that's no longer be run by DN simple because I 261 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,200 had to, because I had to pull it over to Azure DNS because Azure 262 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,720 does a bunch of trickery with their services that it's just so much easier if 263 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,920 the DNS is there, and then you forget you never take it out of 264 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,960 DN simple, and then I'm tweaking it in DM symbol. Now thing's happening. 265 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,680 I'm like, am I losing my mind? And your textic court people 266 00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:47,200 are levelags like I don't think we're actually your DNS provider for this, Like 267 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,079 what you may be losing your mind, but that is beside the point, 268 00:17:49,279 --> 00:17:55,200 separate, separate issue entirely. So I feel like you're building the tool that 269 00:17:55,279 --> 00:17:57,440 Rob was expressing around at, which is like what if you had one place 270 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,440 to look at DNS and the fact that it happened to run in DAN simple 271 00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:03,720 or running as you're routed. We're in the fifty three. Who cares? 272 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:08,119 From one point of view? Yeah, and APIs are all the APIs are 273 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,440 different, right, right, So you go to any of these APIs and 274 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:12,920 you're gonna have to go digging and digging. And so essentially what we've done 275 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,519 is do the digging for you so you don't have to anymore do the DIGGS 276 00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:18,880 for it, because so otherwise we're each going to roll our own on this, 277 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,000 and we're all going to hate ourselves, so we'll just hate you pretty 278 00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:25,000 much. So much easier to hate you, Yeah, hate me or love 279 00:18:25,079 --> 00:18:26,559 me, because I've done a good job, which is ideally what I want. 280 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,279 Well, and that's why I'm delighted you've done it, because your UI 281 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,440 doesn't try and deceive me like some sides, you know, generally makes things 282 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,839 pretty dark clear by the way you did add this thing, like if you've 283 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,440 left your DNS running a DAN symbol and it's not actually the supervisor, it 284 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,039 makes you very clear, like this is not being used believing your entries for 285 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,279 this is y. Yeah, and we're going to continue. We're right now 286 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:52,440 actually working on trying to make that even better as well, all the experience 287 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:55,880 inside of DAN simple so that we can help people not have to go through 288 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,759 that pain of not being able to see that something is somewhere else as well, 289 00:18:59,759 --> 00:19:02,319 because because it is, it's a challenge, right, there's a lot 290 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,720 of complex DNS, which has been around for so long still is a hard 291 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,279 thing to understand often. Yeah, I mean, and the haiku is still 292 00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:12,839 true. You couldn't you know, it's not DNAs it couldn't be DNAs, 293 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:21,079 it's DNSS DNS. So but you guys also do things like I don't go 294 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,240 to who is to look for domains anymore. I just go to dan simple 295 00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:27,119 and I try to register domain and if it's not available, it tells me. 296 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,200 And it's so much easier than believe it or not. Who is Net 297 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,559 anyway has turned into like I haven't used it in a long time. My 298 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:41,119 recollection is there's like ads and crap and stuff in there as well. Then 299 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:42,880 it just yeah, well, I mean they have to they're trying to monetize 300 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,039 in some way. The interesting thing is that who is as a protocol is 301 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,599 going to die. It's being replaced actually right now. So the new protocol 302 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:55,480 it's going to replace, it's called our DAP and that is being slowly rolled 303 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,200 out throughout the world. Wow, well, and it probably needs replacement. 304 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:04,319 Who Is was from a kinder gentler It was very much time. Oh you 305 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:11,039 know, speaking of that, there have been some DNS hijacking attacks. There 306 00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:15,119 always have been, but I've heard I heard about some more recently in the 307 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:21,799 last couple of years, like a DNS poisoning attacks. Those are kind of 308 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,079 common. How do those things happen. Do you know about things? Yeah, 309 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,240 I mean, in essence you have with DNS When I do a query, 310 00:20:27,319 --> 00:20:30,799 I go to a resolver, and then that resolver query is something else. 311 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:36,759 Well, if you can somehow poison the cash inside that resolver with a 312 00:20:36,799 --> 00:20:40,119 bogus answer, then it will hold on to it in its cash for a 313 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,640 certain amount of time. And essentially that's the attack vector, and dns SEC 314 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,920 was designed to essentially stop it. Both guys you implemented it think it's great. 315 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,119 Yeah, I this is I got yelled at from a custom a customer 316 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,359 with a listener who says, you know, you don't have dns SEC on 317 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,880 your domains and stuff, And I think I mentioned it to you, Anthony, 318 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:03,599 and you're like, yeah, I mean it's funny. The adoption of 319 00:21:03,599 --> 00:21:07,279 that protocol, which has been around for quite a long time, has actually 320 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,839 been a really rocky road, so much so where you have new attempts at 321 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,039 other ways of solving that same problem. But the problem, no matter what, 322 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,240 is still the same. Right you have to trust that the data from 323 00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:22,799 the originating authoritative name server has not been tampered with, and the only way 324 00:21:22,839 --> 00:21:26,400 you can do that is with cryptography. You have to have something that cryptographically 325 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,880 signed or otherwise you cannot Ultimately, you can't trust it now. And as 326 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,519 soon as you involve certificates, ninety nine percent of us go nope and walk 327 00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:38,279 away. Yeah, poison like poisoning attacks, I think are probably ones that, 328 00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:41,559 yes, they happen. The ones that really I think you'll hear about 329 00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:47,200 more often than not are just social engineering. Yeah. I mean most often 330 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,160 the way that you get at companies, or a way that the people that 331 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,960 want to cause hav it get at companies or individuals is by social engineering. 332 00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:56,359 They find a way through, Yeah, Phishing's one way. They find it 333 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:02,079 through support channels. They do things like that, and and that's actually one 334 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,680 of the reasons why in our core training, nobody joins dan Simple without going 335 00:22:06,759 --> 00:22:10,200 through training on how to deal with support. Yeah, and specifically, what 336 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,440 are the rules for accepting anything via support? And they're very limited because we 337 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,680 can't be sure that you are who you are right unless you come into the 338 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,240 app used multi factor authentication, then we're probably you know, then the responsibilities 339 00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:27,839 you we get it's a reasonable level of confidence. You know. This is 340 00:22:27,839 --> 00:22:30,799 another story from the wayback Machine, Carl, but it came up the other 341 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:37,200 day, which was replay TV. Oh do you remember TVO? Yeah, 342 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,559 And of course TVO was the original. Replay TV was like their cheaper alternative, 343 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,200 cheaper alternative, none of which worked in Canada. And I'm in Canada, 344 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,400 right, so I get it my hands on a replay TV because I 345 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,799 found a chunk of hacked software that could run as the replay TV host. 346 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,039 And so I just lie to the replay TV with DNS to go, oh, 347 00:22:57,079 --> 00:23:00,559 your service right here. The next she up in the rack, you 348 00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:03,480 know, running running Linux, where I was able to scrap, you know, 349 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:08,160 pull Canadian guide data and format correctly. I loaded in the replay TV. 350 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,759 It was never the wiser Goodness knows, you never wanted to call home, 351 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,400 right, just you could only call to my little server world. You 352 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,960 guys, you Canadians have been struggling with TV metadata forever since you know you 353 00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:25,279 can't first came on dot net rocks like in two thousand two. Well, 354 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,240 yeah, TV had to go away. It wasn't fixable, right, It's 355 00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:33,319 just like let's say the old dice in quote. It was easier. It's 356 00:23:33,319 --> 00:23:37,079 easier to put Wi Fi everywhere to make a good disconnected client. Right. 357 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,960 The answer was actually what if there was no TV anymore? Yeah? Does 358 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:49,000 TV even exist? Our companies still broadcasts out on the waves currently, don't 359 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,759 know. Yeah, from what I understand, I haven't done it, but 360 00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:56,319 from what I understand, you can put it up an antenna and HD a 361 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:03,039 digital antenna and get an HD signal from the signal air madness. What is 362 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,880 this stuff? But you know you can only get the probably if you're in 363 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,359 next to a major city, you know, four or five channels. Yeah, 364 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,160 you know, if you want to relive the seventies, which I would 365 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,720 not, but at least, dude, I had I had an antenna that 366 00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:18,880 we had to had a little dial and you had to click it and like 367 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,920 like a compass, and then you could hear it going in different places. 368 00:24:25,039 --> 00:24:29,000 That's how old I am. Nice all right, So the insect's never gone 369 00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:33,960 anywhere. Our app is now going to replace U who is? So I 370 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,759 mean we're inching towards more secure things. I think in general we've been moving 371 00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:41,799 towards certainly, you know, I know for you guys, is securing the 372 00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:45,359 domains because once when once the domain gets hijack, you got problems like that. 373 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is why we We've been one of 374 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:53,880 the I think as the technology has improved for adding multi factor authentication, we've 375 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,559 been adopting it ahead of pretty much almost every other registrar. So you can 376 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,839 even use hardware keys with the in Simple Now you can of course use two 377 00:25:02,839 --> 00:25:06,599 factor off tokens. We don't let you use your phone because frankly, it's 378 00:25:06,599 --> 00:25:11,559 too easy to hijack SMS. So but we have these multiple layers of security. 379 00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:15,400 We also since we last talked, we've added multi team member security. 380 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,680 You can have give team members access to only specific domains. You can give 381 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,359 them access only to the DNS side of it, or also to the domain 382 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:27,119 registration side of it. So we've put a lot of thought and energy into 383 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,200 how you secure those domains, and we're going to keep doing so. Like 384 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,960 this is it's an important part of what we do. Are our key elements 385 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,200 are security and also of course good support and then making sure that we have 386 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,400 a good API so that you can do all kinds of things with us. 387 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,759 And that's another thing that changed too. Because we now have API tokens you 388 00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:48,680 can you can easily rotate and you can have multiple API tokens with different names. 389 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,079 You can give them access to limited resources. So it's come a long 390 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,359 ways since ten years ago, now as I would hope it would. You 391 00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,759 know, here's another great success story for DNS simple. A friend of mine 392 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:07,279 had a slow Paddy domain that he wanted to that he registered that I wanted 393 00:26:07,319 --> 00:26:11,279 to take over and vice versa. So I had him create an account at 394 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:12,640 dan Simple, and once he had that account, I just like it a 395 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,359 button. Oh yeah, transfer to this guy. Here's his email address. 396 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,799 Boom done, and then he can take it from there, and it's like 397 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,319 so easy. Why isn't it that easy everywhere else? Well, and we 398 00:26:25,039 --> 00:26:29,519 so when it comes to transferring from one provider to another, it's actually still 399 00:26:29,559 --> 00:26:34,640 really hard and it's not really a secret. But in addition to supporting az'rein 400 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:41,480 Route fifty three, we also took the time to integrate with GoDaddy's API specifically 401 00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:45,880 so you can connect to it and pull down your domain registration information from that 402 00:26:45,279 --> 00:26:49,599 and so now you can actually see your GoDaddy domains and you can click transfer 403 00:26:49,839 --> 00:26:52,880 from GoDaddy Indian Simple and we'll handle everything for you. You know, I'd 404 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:59,680 much rather do that than go through their painful, like suicidal risk slashing process. 405 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,839 Yeah. Yeah, so something it is still hard today because the industry 406 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,440 unfortunately put a lot of energy into making it hard. Early on, they 407 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,119 said, you know, there was a small group of companies they didn't really 408 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,440 want to trade between each other, so like, okay, for security reasons, 409 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,119 we'll put up these barriers that had little to do with security and more 410 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:25,359 to be a barriers. I often question whether the early decisions really had Obviously 411 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,799 there was some good intention, but there was also I think some pushing in 412 00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:32,079 the direction of let's make sure to make it a little difficult so that we 413 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,720 encourage people to stay where they are, and it should be mobile. Honestly, 414 00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:38,480 domain name should be easily mobile between providers, right plane and some Yeah, 415 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,279 absolutely so. I mean the core product here, the control plane, 416 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,680 is just being able to see wherever your DNAs resources live everywhere. But there's 417 00:27:45,759 --> 00:27:49,319 sort of an inceptional part of this because you also provide an API to d 418 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,920 and Simple so that I could integrate it into my own workflows too, Like 419 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,599 yep, it's just it's like, well, what front end would you like? 420 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,400 Yeah, pretty much exactly exactly. Yeah, we've we've done We've done 421 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,799 integrations with Terraform, with chef, We've done we've done quite a few API 422 00:28:06,839 --> 00:28:10,559 clients, so it's a nine different languages now. And the idea is that 423 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:12,920 at the small scale, if you're if it's if it's me and I have 424 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,240 a few domains, I just want to go through the UIO, that's fine. 425 00:28:15,319 --> 00:28:19,880 That's one. But if I'm running five hundred domains or six hundred domains 426 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,640 or ten thousand domains, it's UIs impossible, right, So you should be 427 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,279 able to work equally well with either one of those. I just like the 428 00:28:26,319 --> 00:28:30,759 idea of just your it's in your CICD pipeline, that okay, we're changing 429 00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,480 these server ips to this now that it's just part of the automation, and 430 00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:38,240 I don't there's no exceptions there. The network guy isn't called separately for a 431 00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:42,000 rollout, Like if we're really going to push six, ten, fifteen times 432 00:28:42,039 --> 00:28:47,240 a day, you know it better not involve calling anybody. So yeah, 433 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,599 and we still have a lot of people that come to us and say I 434 00:28:49,839 --> 00:28:53,559 want to move to DAN Simple, but it's really hard because I have to 435 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,599 send an individual email for each domain that I want to make a change on 436 00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:03,279 to customers at some company. That's from nineteen ninety seven right, and they 437 00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:07,000 just and they can't even move it. So we've been trying to think how 438 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,680 the heck do we make that easier as well. So this is this is 439 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,400 where all of this originated from. As we keep saying, there's a lot 440 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,400 of ways that it's still really hard. I bet we can still do better 441 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,519 now. You know, you almost feel like you know why did word win 442 00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:22,680 over word Perfect because some early on word read and wrote word perfect files. 443 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,680 The idea that you built a console now and the crazy part of the word 444 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,920 perfect story, if you ever go deeper into it, is at one point 445 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:36,160 word Perfect wrote their own format and word could fix it. So it's like, 446 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:37,720 hey, are you using word perfect and they've just updated that. I 447 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,759 think it was like four point three or something, and it now it doesn't 448 00:29:40,759 --> 00:29:42,880 work correctly. If you're running the word It's fine. I just remember that 449 00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:48,799 what you've just described to me is the battle that I had the days of 450 00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:52,720 trying to get DNS entries out of netsaw and into you. Now, I 451 00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:57,559 would set up in the control plane and point to where whatever service that currently 452 00:29:57,599 --> 00:30:00,440 existed and say, okay, let's start moving those and you'll do the nitty 453 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,680 gritty. Yeah, that's the that's the vision. You know. The challenge, 454 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,079 of course, is going to be very few providers have an API, 455 00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:11,920 and if they do, it doesn't even work well. And these are dangerous 456 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,519 APIs, because this is what this is about, stealing domains like these are 457 00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,079 dangerous APIs. I want to hear more about the control plane, but let 458 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,920 us take a quick break and we'll be right back after these messages don't go 459 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:29,759 away, and we're back. You're listening to dot net Rocks. I'm Carl 460 00:30:29,759 --> 00:30:33,119 Franklin, that's Richard Campbell. Howdy. We're here with our friend Anthony Eden 461 00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:34,519 from DAN Simple. And by the way, if you don't want to hear 462 00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:40,839 ads, you can subscribe to Patreon Patreon, dot dot netroocks dot com. 463 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,799 Be a patron and you can get an AD free feed and it's not all 464 00:30:45,799 --> 00:30:49,720 that much money. And we were talking, we were just getting back into 465 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,640 talking about the control plane, and I think it kind of went over my 466 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:59,119 head a little bit, but because probably because I don't mess with multiple you 467 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,480 know, domain providers like I'm the DN simple guy all the way. But 468 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,000 can you give us some scenarios in which this new control plane is going to 469 00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:12,359 be really helpful? Sure? Sure. So one straightforward example is you want 470 00:31:12,359 --> 00:31:15,759 to run on multiple providers. You want to run your DNS on both as 471 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:18,279 your end route fifty three because you don't want to put all your eggs in 472 00:31:18,319 --> 00:31:21,720 one basket. Right now, when you say run your DNS, you mean 473 00:31:21,799 --> 00:31:25,960 a DNS server, No, I actually mean your authoritative zones. So you 474 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,720 want to use as yours cloud DNS and you want to use route fifty three, 475 00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:33,119 which is Amazons as your secondary, okay, or and the notion of 476 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,240 secondary is kind of it's moot, like these are really multiple providers, and 477 00:31:38,279 --> 00:31:41,359 maybe you also want to run on DN simple. Well, you want a 478 00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:45,039 single interface for seeing all that you can do that. So that's one example. 479 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,839 And when you say that, do you you mean I would still have 480 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,920 my domain registered at DN simple, but I would have these authoritative providers on 481 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,680 different clouds. Is that the idea? Good? Yeah, it's an option. 482 00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:59,279 You can also run it through us as well. I think what we're 483 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,799 what we're accepting here is that everybody has different needs. Right some folks, 484 00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:09,839 their operational team says, we need you to run on as your plan simplest 485 00:32:09,839 --> 00:32:16,039 that there's no other option. But maybe doing that constantly is not working out 486 00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:20,920 great for them from an interface standpoint because they find it complicated or what have 487 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,880 you. And they have team members who have used DAN Simple. Well, 488 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,440 now they can just keep using DAN Simple even though they're managing those assets over 489 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,839 there. It's another example as well. Sometimes different departments have different needs. 490 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,559 Right, so maybe your core operations are going to be on one of the 491 00:32:35,599 --> 00:32:40,319 major cloud providers, but maybe your marketing team who's spinning up sites regularly, 492 00:32:40,359 --> 00:32:45,119 they need something that's faster. They need something that's relatively reasonably priced that they 493 00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:46,680 can get in and do it and get out quick and get everything set up 494 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,640 in one shot. They'd rather do it on DAN Simple than have to go 495 00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:53,440 through putting it on Azure. But you still want to have a unified interface 496 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,759 to see all of this and to manage all of this. And that's the 497 00:32:55,839 --> 00:33:00,200 idea behind the domain control plan. Now I can imagine a marketing team team 498 00:33:00,599 --> 00:33:07,119 cranking out subdomains constantly for every promotion, right it's you know special Spring Special 499 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:13,039 twenty four dot dot at rocks dot com, and and you do subdomains are 500 00:33:13,079 --> 00:33:15,640 even even even domains because with all the TL these now you have so many 501 00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:21,359 choices you can do these you can do these custom domains that are that are 502 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,559 on some TLD that's going to be for a limited time. Yeah right, 503 00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:25,720 and that's totally okay. Yeah, and you again, you might be at 504 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,920 a separate provider, might be a different set of services, like I've certainly 505 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,440 been dealing now with companies where it's not just that they have a WS and 506 00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:38,480 Azure and on prem and other, but now they're expecting the transactions to coordinate 507 00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:40,480 between them. Yeah. Yeah, but they want it. They want a 508 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,640 message bys system to speak to them all. And so the pipeline's complicated, 509 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,559 and you're editing up with each of these interfaces to deal with each of these 510 00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:51,440 things. Anything that might be simply by that for me, I'm excited to 511 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,279 look at this question might be more of a selfish self interest thing. But 512 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,720 so I don't often get to talk to an expert like you once you know 513 00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:06,480 on these things. So answer me this, is there any reason why anyone 514 00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:10,519 should not use a TTL of sixty seconds? Yes, there is why. 515 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,760 So the if you're using a TTL with sixty seconds, you're going to be 516 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,239 constantly hitting the surface, constantly hating the surfer. Dennis is not a fault 517 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,119 proof protocol with UDP, it was never designed to be. And so you're 518 00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:28,760 going to have slower responses most likely because you're not going to be taking advantage 519 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,599 that cash that's out at the edge. So because you have multiple cashing layers, 520 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:37,360 right, and that matters in many cases, the difference between having your 521 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,159 customer potentially who say, let me just give an example, if your customer 522 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:45,920 is somewhere in Asia, they might be routed and a very complex route to 523 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,039 get a DNS query out to one of our name servers, even though our 524 00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:52,599 name servers in Tokyo or Singapore. Yeah, they have a cash right, 525 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,119 yeah, right, And so cash helps that the minute you do it down 526 00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:59,320 to sixty seconds, you bust those cashes pretty much constantly. Yeah, who 527 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,199 wants to sixty second d and as cash And most of my even most of 528 00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:06,480 my fail over systems were really in the five to ten minute range more than 529 00:35:06,599 --> 00:35:08,760 like an hour. Well on the only problem there is that if you need 530 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,719 to update something now, you have to wait ten minutes, right, So 531 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,480 is the way to do it to you set it to ten minutes and then 532 00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:19,639 when you're going to update it, you send it to a minute. Wait 533 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:24,119 ten minutes, then change it. Maybe everything gets repopulated, and then go 534 00:35:24,199 --> 00:35:29,920 back to ten minutes. I think that's a smart way of doing it if 535 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,360 you want to make sure that the change, the switchover happens quickly. Yeah, 536 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,719 then that's definitely the approach you want to do. You want to shorten 537 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,400 that TTL just when you're doing that change. Alternatively, you allow the fact 538 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:44,239 that there's going to be two systems running at once. You design for that 539 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,880 case, and you allow that to happen. Naturally, resolve any of the 540 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:52,119 things that happen during that transition using whatever you have in your back end implementation, 541 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:53,360 and you move on, and then you don't even have to worry about 542 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,199 those TTLs. See. You know this is probably stuff Richard talks about on 543 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,400 run as radio, but I don't get to talk about this stuff much. 544 00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:04,159 Yeah, we were talking about moving over to a multiple you know, to 545 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,199 a replacement scale site. You know, we talk about the drain. Right, 546 00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,360 we'd set up the new entries, the old system would remain running and 547 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,440 we just keep shutting down services. But you'd have to wait till you hadn't 548 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,519 had a ping for an hour before you turn the last one off. So 549 00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:21,159 it's like, now every TTL is drained, do you shut that off? 550 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,280 Yep? Yeah, yeah. We've had to do the same thing as well 551 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,960 over the years, numerous times where we've had to sort of slowly spin down 552 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,199 some service that we've had, and we have to I mean even today we're 553 00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:35,960 still dealing with it some legacy IP addresses that we have assigned to name service 554 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,440 that almost nobody uses, but somebody's using it and we don't want to disrupt 555 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,119 them. So we just really like when we think of when we think of 556 00:36:43,199 --> 00:36:46,800 terms of transitions, it's offully often in terms of years right transitioning things, 557 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:52,639 and it adds a whole other layer of complexity because you have to keep that 558 00:36:52,679 --> 00:36:55,440 transition happening plainly. But man, it sure is nice when stuff just keeps 559 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:59,360 working for the customer, right, Like ultimately that's how we see it is. 560 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,519 It's just they shouldn't even know. This is one of the nice things 561 00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:06,079 about the cloud environment is like, eventually I've wound this down to a single 562 00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:10,519 small instance that's costing me five bucks, awad me, I'll keep that going. 563 00:37:10,599 --> 00:37:14,559 That's fine until it hasn't been hit for a long time. You remember 564 00:37:14,599 --> 00:37:16,719 those days, Richard, when we would spin up a new sequel server when 565 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,599 we ever we had a new podcast. Yeah what though, you did not? 566 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,360 Oh your own v ms? Yeah yeah, they don't do that anymore, 567 00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:30,039 has no databases. It's just yeah, me too nice. I had 568 00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:34,239 to unlearn that behavior, the joy of the joy of text of text files, 569 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:39,320 right, absolutely. You know how often a podcast entry changes? Never? 570 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:44,320 You make it once and it never changes. Why is it in a 571 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,239 dynamic data store? Yeah? Yeah. All of our so our blog at 572 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:52,079 the in simple, our support pages, our developer pages are all static sites 573 00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:57,400 and they're all generated with a static site generator. And what a difference. 574 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,440 It just makes things so much easier to to keep running that you just don't 575 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,159 have to think about it, right because there's no there's nothing to break. 576 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,440 Yeah, here's another gotcha. When you register a domain name or a web 577 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:13,440 app in Azure, you don't want that IP address to change. And if 578 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,800 you don't get a static IP address or something, it could just change and 579 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,599 then one day your site's down. You go to Azure portal. Oh the 580 00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:27,119 IP address is different. That's fun. Wow, it feels like that's the 581 00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:30,079 thing. Ask me how I know it? How do you know? I 582 00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:32,920 think I know exactly how you know about But it feels like that's the thing 583 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,000 where this is an example back to that original comment in the beginning, that 584 00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:42,760 should just be automated. Yeah, if if that address changes, then something 585 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,079 like in our case, a web hook gets fired. Plus if the name 586 00:38:46,199 --> 00:38:50,039 is in as you're already it should just update, right. But even if 587 00:38:50,079 --> 00:38:52,599 it's outside of Azure, there should be a web hook that's fired that something 588 00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:53,840 else can pick up. Which I mean, that's one of the reasons I 589 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:59,639 moved my DNS for run as because it was running in an Azure app service 590 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,000 over to the as your side. Because you don't really have control over your 591 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,719 IP address as an Azure they do, so if you hook the whole thing 592 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,400 together, they do that for you. I'm sure there's this solution. It's 593 00:39:10,519 --> 00:39:14,519 just six pages of work I didn't have to do, just move the DNS. 594 00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:15,559 Yeah, you know what the solution is, Like, we'll let it 595 00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:20,000 do what I do. Run a PowerShell script that runs every hour that checks 596 00:39:20,039 --> 00:39:22,239 the website to make sure it's up and looks for some valid data that's coming 597 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,280 out of your data store. I see the shape of your hammer there, 598 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,760 dude. You know, but this is a great use. This is an 599 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,559 example of where the Azure integration actually might make sense in d N Simple because 600 00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:37,559 you can leave that DNS zone over there, but you can see it inside 601 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:39,360 of the en Simple next to all your other zones. And not only you 602 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,559 see it, but let's say you wanted to add some subdomain to it. 603 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,519 You can actually do that from inside d and Simple, and it'll synchronize the 604 00:39:45,519 --> 00:39:50,199 two together. What less time in the asure portal? Are you crazy? 605 00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:53,480 Yeah? I know, Mantain's right. How do I get this lovely new 606 00:39:53,559 --> 00:39:57,679 feature? Where do I go? How do I get it? How do 607 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:00,079 I turn it on? Just just log in? Just log in and turn 608 00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:04,039 it on. It's under your account. If you log in, you can 609 00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:07,599 take a look and there should be on any domain. You'll also see ways 610 00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:13,119 to turn on various connectors. So yeah, it's we call these integrated providers. 611 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,400 You can turn them on either on the domain level or on the app 612 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:20,920 level, and once they're hooked up, essentially they do bidirectional sync. Right, 613 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,880 that's beautiful. You just had a thumbs up bubble up here right over 614 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,559 you? Is that your I know? Is that an iPhone feature? But 615 00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:29,800 it was weird because I was scratching my shoulder, and I'm like, why 616 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,320 is it? You're scratching your shoulder with your thumb up, and all of 617 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,760 a sudden, you see these thumbs up coming over your head. What is 618 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,840 that? I can't get that to work. When I try to get it 619 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,440 to work, it never works. It only works if I do a gesture 620 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,880 that I'm not intending to make that show Apple. This technology is getting too 621 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,719 complicated, it's getting weird. Yeah, it should be more simple, right, 622 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,800 that's what I think. All right, So tell us about pricing. 623 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,480 What are we looking at for using this new tool? Okay, so that's 624 00:40:55,519 --> 00:41:00,599 actually really cool news. If you're on our solo plan, you don't pay 625 00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:04,360 anything for it. Wow, whoa way, that's hard to argue. And 626 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,679 then so last year we changed our pricing so we move more to usage based 627 00:41:08,679 --> 00:41:12,840 pricing, which is essentially you only pay for the zones that you use, 628 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,840 you pay for the query volume that you use if you're on a Solar A 629 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:21,519 team's plan. And then we decided that for the domain control plane, that 630 00:41:21,599 --> 00:41:23,599 for connections to domains elsewhere, for now, we're not going to charge anything. 631 00:41:23,639 --> 00:41:28,199 We're going to give it to everybody whoever is it then simple no charge 632 00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:30,800 for it, So you can start hooking up today with no additional charge. 633 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,280 And if you use us for DNS, then the zones you use you'll pay 634 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,840 for those, but otherwise you don't. I can't argue with that. Man. 635 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,239 Wow, great, it's very nice. Yeah, we'll let it go. 636 00:41:39,599 --> 00:41:44,440 Is there anything that we missed in terms of the control plane? I 637 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,920 think the only thing that I'd really love to know, and this is going 638 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,239 to be something that our customers and whether new or old, are going to 639 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,480 tell us, is where do we go next with you? What providers are 640 00:41:54,519 --> 00:41:59,079 really ones that you'd love to see us integrate with? Tell Us just reach 641 00:41:59,119 --> 00:42:00,320 out to support a dance dot com and say, hey, I use this 642 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,840 provider. I would love it if you add one, or in the app 643 00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:07,360 when you select providers, and there's an option for you don't have my provider, 644 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,320 and you can tell us which provider you want us to use. So 645 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,800 I see three essential services here. We only talked about two of them early, 646 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,199 the registration, the DNS. The third one is certif is SSL, 647 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:22,920 t LS, yeah, SERTs, which still is I mean, let's encrypt 648 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,280 has made it better for no other reasons, so much better actually as your 649 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,599 sert is genius, right, actually, as your managed SERTs are free. 650 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,800 Yeah, well it's the let's encrypt SERTs. But it's just like, yeah, 651 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,000 but let's encrypt is kind of has a little root gold set mechanism. 652 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,000 Yeah, I did that and then it stopped. Now that's the beauty of 653 00:42:40,039 --> 00:42:45,920 it. It again, you don't. So for example, our redirection service 654 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:52,559 terminates HDPS connections using let's encrypt certificates and does automatic rotation of those certificates, 655 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,000 hooks into your DNS so that it puts I mean, it just handles everything. 656 00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:00,719 And that really Let's encrypt has changed the game around certificate that time. 657 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,320 I can't I know why some people still hold on to this idea that they 658 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,800 want to have a certificate for a year or two years, which, by 659 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,000 the way, now you can't do more than two. Yes, you used 660 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,960 to really get twenties, Yeah, nottymore. Now they keep getting short, 661 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,800 and eventually I think it's going to keep getting shorter and shorter. Because automation 662 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,400 is amazing. Yeah. It makes it so that if you can do something 663 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,280 in automated fashion, scheduled or unscheduled, it means you have the ability to 664 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,360 fix stuff really fast, yep, because if something goes wrong outside of your 665 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,119 control, you can essentially put things back the right way. I love having 666 00:43:34,199 --> 00:43:37,400 things in Azure because I'm already authenticated, you know. That's why I love 667 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,800 these managed certificates, because I don't have to go through a third party provider 668 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,519 improved to them. I am who I say I am. I'm already authenticated 669 00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:49,360 through Azure. They know me, like, yes, that's me, I 670 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:55,000 logged in giving a certificate. Automated certificates, being in front of services was 671 00:43:55,559 --> 00:43:59,599 really something we should have done a long long time ago. I'm super happy 672 00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:04,039 to see that the that it's been adopted so widely now. And and if 673 00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:07,280 you're using a provider that it provides any kind of hosting and they don't automate 674 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,599 that, I just it makes me wonder why, like get on their backs 675 00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:14,559 and say automated. Yeah, yeah, so, And I can see obviously 676 00:44:14,599 --> 00:44:17,280 your path forward is being able to pull from more registration sources, being able 677 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,280 to connect to more DNS service. We can argue whether any you need more 678 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:22,599 seerts or not, because once you get the leeds of grip, you're got 679 00:44:22,599 --> 00:44:27,719 it done. So and I don't know there's another service area you got to 680 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,000 go. So there's obviously the increasing in each of those three areas, but 681 00:44:30,119 --> 00:44:34,480 is there another area to add? I'd say just you know, training and 682 00:44:34,639 --> 00:44:38,639 education is in Your blogs are great for that, your blog posts, but 683 00:44:39,199 --> 00:44:43,679 you know, just keeping your customers because when your customers know what they're doing, 684 00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:46,159 you're they're going to be a lot happier. But you know, DNS, 685 00:44:46,199 --> 00:44:50,719 if you're just you know, if you're just coming into the IT world, 686 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,719 it can be it can be overwhelming. I'm digging into stuff like static 687 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,039 stores, so yeah, you know, because I have this problem now right 688 00:44:58,199 --> 00:45:00,079 that I stick it in blob storage and ash or is it seeing an S 689 00:45:00,119 --> 00:45:05,840 three bin somewhere? Yeah, we've talked about so. One of the things 690 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,159 we've talked about off and on over the years is do we want to move 691 00:45:09,199 --> 00:45:14,480 beyond the domain protocols? Right? Obviously with certificates, we did that already 692 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,320 to some small extent. Yeah, they're directly related to domain protocols. Yeah, 693 00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:22,480 but for example, cashing, you know, basically cashing of HDP is 694 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,239 a very common next step. Yeah. Our biggest concern is that it changes 695 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,559 the dynamics of the type of traffic we're handling, and all of a sudden, 696 00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:35,800 we're handling actual content, and that steps over a line where you start 697 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,400 dealing with with copyright infringement, you know, takedown notices, yeah, real 698 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,920 time effects, yeah, all of that sort. Yeah, and so and 699 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:45,960 so that's one of those things that we've always said, you know, what 700 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:50,039 our business is about domains. We really want that to be our core business, 701 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,280 and so we're going to make the best business of that and keep making 702 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:59,159 that better. And we've stuck to our guns for almost it'll be fifteen years 703 00:45:59,199 --> 00:46:00,599 now, wow, next year? Now does that mean you're going to go 704 00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:04,280 all in on our app? So our DEPP is a requirement. Ever, 705 00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,440 anybody who's a registrar is going to have to run our app because our DAP 706 00:46:07,559 --> 00:46:09,559 essentially makes it so instead of having this public you know, text file that 707 00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:14,920 people are looking at, they actually are you're allowed to have limits to who 708 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,519 can see what. So, for example, law enforcement's going to be able 709 00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:20,840 to see one level, the general populations will be able to see another level. 710 00:46:21,159 --> 00:46:23,239 Other registrars and registries will be able to see different levels. And so 711 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:29,119 information privacy, which is becoming a really big thing in most places in the 712 00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:31,320 world that actually is going to be built into the protocol, whereas and who 713 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:35,800 is it was just like, here's a text file and what goes in it 714 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,280 is completely random. Woo yeah, scrape orama. So only lawn only law 715 00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:45,400 enforcement can see backdoor dot dot NetRocks dot com, honeypot dot dot NetRocks dot 716 00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:50,840 com. I mean, if enough people came to us and said, we 717 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,719 really want this thing. So domain registration didn't exist in the first version of 718 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,519 DNS. Right when I launched in twenty ten, it was just DNS. 719 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,800 And the only reason domain registry was added Indian symbol is because a bunch of 720 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,480 people who I knew came in and said, the main registration is terrible. 721 00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:07,679 Can you please just do something about it. Yeah, you made DNS nots 722 00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:12,159 suck. Can you make registration not suck too? Yes? And I said 723 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,440 okay, And that has continued the hell of domain registration that will not leave 724 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:20,880 my life real they ever will. I think you a first slow Patty, 725 00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,880 Weren't you at first? I personally was. We originally built on another provider, 726 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,599 and we've since changed things behind the scenes several times because the world keeps 727 00:47:29,639 --> 00:47:31,119 changing. Like I said, that's the other thing about these SERTs, right 728 00:47:31,199 --> 00:47:35,679 is we're constantly having the root domain hacks and things like you don't want a 729 00:47:35,679 --> 00:47:37,599 long duration cert when he's like, that's not a valid cert anymore. It's 730 00:47:37,679 --> 00:47:42,960 dangerous. And that's another reason also why we rotate DNS set keys automatically, 731 00:47:43,039 --> 00:47:45,960 which which very few people do. And we do it because we basically took 732 00:47:46,039 --> 00:47:51,599 that same concept that that let's encrypt made popular and said we're gonna do the 733 00:47:51,639 --> 00:47:54,119 same thing for DNA sex right done, And as long as we can hook 734 00:47:54,159 --> 00:47:58,760 into a registrar that'll allow us to rotate those keys automatically, they will be 735 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,159 rotated automatically. There's not a choice. Yeah, and which really means are 736 00:48:01,159 --> 00:48:07,079 there is are infrastructure up to automatically replace those routinely because that's that that's our 737 00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:10,880 best chance to resist these attacks, is that the keys are constantly changing. 738 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,079 Yeah, and if it could, because if you're halfway, let's say you're 739 00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:17,719 thirty days into a ninety day window and you do have some sort of a 740 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:22,000 breach, run the rotation right now. Yeah, problem solved, key, 741 00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:27,159 you know, compromise key gone granted. Problem solved might be you have other 742 00:48:27,199 --> 00:48:30,840 issues, like how do you let your keys get compromised, but at least 743 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,159 you're taking a one step towards a little bit more security than you would if 744 00:48:34,199 --> 00:48:38,239 you're sitting there. And while who Bob down in accounting I think has the 745 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:44,920 certificate usually a password on his U notepad on his desk. Can you go 746 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,400 grab that? Bob, Accounting gets a bad rap on this show. Sorry, 747 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:57,239 always always counting. It's not his fault, there is. God has 748 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,639 to say no more often really does yes. He When Alice comes and says, 749 00:49:00,679 --> 00:49:02,559 Bob, can you do this? Bob needs to go. Not a 750 00:49:02,639 --> 00:49:08,079 chance. Where the hell is my red stapler? By the way, all 751 00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:12,639 right, so before we go, one other question, what is your experience 752 00:49:12,679 --> 00:49:16,199 with c sharp if any? So when we wrote the original API clients, 753 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,480 I went through it. I looked at a little bit and played around with 754 00:49:20,519 --> 00:49:23,360 it. That that's about the extent of it. I grew up in the 755 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,199 world of Max. When I was a kid, my dad had Max around 756 00:49:27,199 --> 00:49:30,480 in backs VMS systems, so it was it was it was really old school 757 00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:34,400 or new school, and I never really did the Windows thing. I spent 758 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,840 a few years writing Java on Windows machines, but I've been mostly either Mac 759 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:42,440 or Linux guy for my entire life, so I hadn't had much a need 760 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,199 for c sharp, but you know c sharp runs on Mac and Lenux. 761 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:50,039 Now it's okay. I do know. There's probably a lisp guy, right. 762 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,679 I did have some time with closure, as shown in my bio. 763 00:49:53,880 --> 00:50:00,000 I did like Lisp, but Erlang is still my favorite language. There's something 764 00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:02,800 about Erlang that every time I use it, it makes me go, aw, 765 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,639 this is so much fun. This is such a great language because it's 766 00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:10,599 so different than anything else out there. Yeah, it's that functional thinking mindset. 767 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,079 In any I meet Haskell people like that too. They're just delighted with 768 00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:20,039 what they've written. I just love I love the way how functions in Erlang 769 00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:22,599 are. They basically accept the shape of the data that they shape, and 770 00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:27,239 you have different variations of them that they accept different data that shape differently, 771 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,079 And I just there's just something about it that it's like, man, that's 772 00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:34,320 such an elegant way of handling some of these problems. So granted, if 773 00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,679 don't look at me anymore to write code, because I've written a lot of 774 00:50:36,679 --> 00:50:38,159 bad code in my life anymore, and I no longer try to make it 775 00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:42,800 pretty. So I'm not the best first thing, but it's still my favorite. 776 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,719 It's also not like a vegan militant about it, you know what I 777 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:49,480 mean. You know, whatever you want to do, it's fine. We 778 00:50:49,559 --> 00:50:52,280 just want to handle your domains. Yeah, A couple a couple of years 779 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:53,960 back, we did. We did the advent of code and I wrote everything 780 00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,719 in C plus plus. Wow, So why the heck not? You know, 781 00:50:58,519 --> 00:51:01,880 just it's fun. There's nothing to me. And this is one of 782 00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,400 the things that I have to say that as we move more and more towards 783 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,920 a world where code assist tools based on AI are going to be part of 784 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:13,920 a normal developer's daily routine, I'm saddened a little bit by it because I 785 00:51:14,039 --> 00:51:16,320 love writing code, and honestly, there's going to get to a point here 786 00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:21,360 where we will not write much code anymore. We'll still be thinking in systems 787 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,199 unless we want to. Like I for me, it's better than doing puzzles. 788 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,199 I mean yeah, I mean too. I love it. I love 789 00:51:27,199 --> 00:51:30,320 it, and I hope right now I spend almost all my time just running 790 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,840 and simple and thinking about the business and things like that. I hope someday 791 00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,960 I'll be able to retire from running the business and focus again writing code because 792 00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,960 it's just such a such an enjoy. Well, you're doing something right because 793 00:51:42,119 --> 00:51:46,119 for these fifteen or whatever years that we've been using your services, it's been 794 00:51:46,159 --> 00:51:51,960 a dream. So it's a great it's a really good team who highly recommended, 795 00:51:52,039 --> 00:51:53,639 who really focuses on stuff and I appreciate that. Thank you again, 796 00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,840 Carl for being a customer and Richard for being a customer for seco to your 797 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,639 team and they do great show they do. And you'll have to come back 798 00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:04,480 in another ten years and tell us what you will be to it's a deal. 799 00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:07,920 If we're still around in ten years and still kicking, and y'all are 800 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,159 still kicking, we will do this sooner, I'm sure. I hope so 801 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,519 well, I hope so you can. You can call me in any time. 802 00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:16,000 I'm always having me to talk, all right, cool anthy and thank 803 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:20,239 you very much for spending this time with us, and uh wow, great 804 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,480 stuff. This is my pleasure. Thank you both, all right, and 805 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:46,320 we'll see you next time. Dot net rocks. Dot net Rocks is brought 806 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:52,480 to you by Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, a full service audio, 807 00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:57,559 video and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut and of 808 00:52:57,599 --> 00:53:02,239 course in the cloud online at ew op dot com. Visit our website at 809 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:07,199 d O T N E t R O c k s dot com for RSS 810 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:12,159 feeds, downloads, mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives 811 00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,199 going back to show number one, recorded in September two thousand and two. 812 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,960 And make sure you check out our sponsors. They keep us in business. 813 00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:27,679 Now go write some code, See you next time. You got jamddle Vans and