The opinions expressed by Chayo Busquets are supported by his extensive experience as a family
therapist and in the previous analysis of the cases presented here welcome. This is
Chayo with you. At Joya we start very good afternoon to everyone as I
am Chayo Busquets, this is Chayo with you. With our guest, who
this year already joins as our specialist in couples therapy. Last year we had
the pleasure. Well, we already had the pleasure of having her here for
the first time. Then, given the success of her programme, we repeated
again in December the programme we had had with her. We present them to
you and well, without any doubt, as I was already talking to you
out of the air and as you already started to listen to it on Fridays
because you already joined us full with us every Friday in your segment, because
you are here with us and this is your first program of the year,
complete program in which we will be talking about all those things. Well,
those of you that systematically hurt partner relationships beyond the agreements that each of you
has in your own relationship, but those that are known to consistently hurt partner
relationships. So here he is with us tar and trot and welcome. Oh,
thank you so much for inviting me back, not good, because you
know you' re here to stay. This is your house. Thank you
very much. No more. I want to tell the listeners that I have
a cold not for a month and then I' m going to get my
voice out or I' m going to show up snoring, no, but
I don' t think they' re going to think I' m not.
I' m interested not at all, not at all, not at
all. Let' s see my dear tar where we get him Look,
let' s get him into this. Of me I do not necessarily call
it customs, this certain patterns that we all make. No And within what
greatly hurts couple relationships is the famous criticism OK. And within the chapter of
criticism, I' d like to make a difference between complaint and complaint.
OK. Well, complaint has to do with the past where you don'
t look for a solution. This is like an out of tune violin.
It' s not like you didn' t do it. This is all
that happened. While a claim, one of the claim parts is re again
I don' t cry that comes from clamor that comes to say, hear
the voice, leave it, leave it, follow a claim and it'
s something that you and I had hoped for or something that you and I
had decided, it' s already giving us. Then, when we are
dedicated to complaining, to complaining about nothing, it will serve us, because
what we want is to change and move towards the future. One example is
that I' m very angry with you, because we had agreed that you
were going to go through the kids or you were going to go through me
no, and that disappointed me. I' m going to wait for the
next time we don' t talk and settle, instead of saying yes,
it' s either you' re an idiot or in the case it'
s just that you' re a quitter. So that' s a criticism.
It doesn' t help to move, it doesn' t help to
build, it doesn' t help to be close any more, more than
everything brings fear. It brings this fear to judgment, it' s going
to be a matter that separates us, et cetera. So, yes,
I want to put this quite different between complaining and claiming, and criticism comes
in that the person and can be and pointing out that you are selfish.
If I tell you you' re selfish, because it' s already messed
up, because then it' s a part of who I am. If
one says this act contains selfishness, no, then one can change, because
the other will not feel attacked. You have to make a difference between who
I am and what it has to do with being and what I do that
can be changed without any doubt, because the first one puts you on the
defensive. You don' t need to defend yourself. Yeah, and that
' s how And and the defense, as we know, is something almost
instinctive and it also has to do with how it hasn' t gone to
the fair of what kind of family we come from. There are families where
the criticism is intense, when I told you about certain schools, where you
go and you have a teacher who always tells you not to realize that why
you do it go away, go home, then diminish your worth instead of
being able to say we will do something about it, no doubt. No
doubt about it. Uh, so the first thing you' d have to
be thinking about, right now is how often you attack your partner or how
often you point out to them where the possibility of change would be in the
way we talk about and what we talk about, not in our way of
going and coming from words constantly we don' t use what I consider to
be called totalizing words, never, nobody, everything, etcetera. Every time,
not every time you talk to me or tell me happens. So,
I' m not going to argue at all and not at all anyone,
etcetera. So I recommend that those words, because or not they are not
possible, nor is it all, nor is it ever, nor is it
anyone, etcetera, and observe that what when we use them. We use
them when we have despair, when we are angry, when we feel unconnected,
etcetera. And what we' re claiming is probably that we' re
being seen, that we want listened to, and so on. But it
comes out in a way where we look like dog not wow, etcetera.
So, those totalizing words. You have to keep an eye on them They
don' t help conversations in other places Maybe. Yeah, but finally,
he never hit the ball right. Well, no, it' s not
true. Not that one never exists at best. The only word where he
is is never ever. No one has returned from the afterlife to tell us
how clear it is. Is that right? That? Is that right?
That' s true, but they' re very few of those truths.
So criticism hurts, criticism stops, criticism judges. Criticism doesn' t help,
it doesn' t build, and totalizing words don' t totally undermine
conversation. Okay, okay, so I think you convinced us. That'
s one, the other. The other one is what I' m going
to tell you. But it' s disdain ok this, this I pull
out of the Gotsman investigations. Don' t disdain where I feel superior,
not you. And when you feel superior, you feel superior, like here
I can teach you with my hands. There' s an imbalance. Not
one is up and one is down, then from above to wind. And
this one we have in many other parts of our life. This is not
the rich versus the poor. Let' s say one class versus the other.
We live it daily, we live it in different structures. It'
s true that it doesn' t happen and we just incorporate it. It
happens a lot in certain families, where not the masculine is much more important
than the feminine, where biology ends up being destiny than my point of view,
is terrible. It' s you you can' t, and that
makes you shrink, too. It doesn' t hurt her the soul hurts
these deep parts where you' re superior and I' m inferior. No,
what do you want me to do? And this being repetitively not to
what we' re going to want to do is separate. That and I
don' t know if it' s a physical separation, uh, necessarily
an emotional separation, a psychological separation that you' re seeing that the building
that they supposedly built together is necessarily starting to fall apart. You are given
by the fact that traditionally the couple is heterosexual and comes from the difference between
man and woman, and the man with the strongest or most definite power in
history by his physical strength and because he was who was destined to leave,
to bring and to provide and then all these ideas of the payer and the
one who brings the money, then he has more, more power attributed and
so on. Uh, that' s why this superiority was generated Look.
I think it' s very interesting what you were saying. Not in this
society, in those primitive societies, in fact, where man has more muscle
mass in principle, no yes, more mascular, more ability to run,
etcetera. Then you began to see the attributes, physical attributes, as superiors.
But you have to know perfectly well that that hunting season, et cetera,
was a joint matter. Not the man was there with the spear,
etcetera, but the women made the noise to move the prey over there,
and from there it became a matter of superiority. There are certain civilizations.
There are still certain groups where the physical is important and that' s left
there, not because I' m physically superior, so that' s superior
to you, but it' s true. Places where that' s not
true. I mean, you' re not looking at the physical issues,
you' re costing yourself on the capabilities of abstraction, of conversation, of
achievements, etc, which, as you know, all that is male energy
that we also call not the yange to make it easier or someone ilian.
And that' s what I think when you started seeing private property, we
started having problems. Not because we used to be in the collective, we
were in the community, we didn' t help each other. But since
this is mine, no, this is mine, and what do I want
to do with it and where am I going to give it to and who
am I going to give it to? Then you start to control the woman
a little bit because I' m not going to make me want to give
this to a child that' s not mine. No, okay, well,
this is one thing that I don' t know if it' s
interesting or not. But Peter is or how, how we build, how
we build it, and then his own private life. Who' s going
to have the right, who' s working it, who' s being
given it, who' s being inherited. And that' s where the
woman gets out. No, I mean there were certain societies where even the
widow had no right, not right to and there has changed and certain things
have been dissing. Not that it also has to do with the posts has
to be with who, who this one is and today, well, there
is a cry of protest from prophet this one that is very valid. It
' s me, I' m the plant manager in the coke, being
a woman, why I' m going to get less than a man manager
from that same plant. That' s from far away. But this question
of superiority, not of superiority that I have heard is that we have someone
not or is our family of abolition our family that has to do with the
municipality where I am, where not this we are family that this is the
third or fourth generation, where they are presidents, municipal, etc, that
ends up being a question of control. We' re different. Then I
' ll see you and that reproduces inside the home. No yes, what
is outside is what is outside, regardless of growth, regardless of the law
that was established within the family, does not reproduce again. Then it reproduces
on the outside and on the inside. It' s not just inside.
No, and we' ve incorporated that through time. And I don'
t think anyone likes to be treated with disdain, no, as we'
ve suddenly seen someone who, instead of paying him directly, throws him to
the floor or something. That' s, that' s something extremely pitiful
and it' s also happening between couples. I don' t mean it
' s always the man, it' s the woman, because it'
s not true. That' s not true. Uh, yeah, there
' s a statistical issue that gets more of a job, but also women
can be very scornful, or, for example, when man doesn' t
get to offer him what he expects in the world and money, in the
money world, is that you' re a little thing. You haven'
t managed to do anything. And if there' s anything that hurts,
so is the man. That' s what it has to do with masculinity
and above. There are women who do lower in a terrible way. Uh,
no, I mean no more than one side totally, no doubt.
No doubt we' re critical of Desdén that he' s constantly fighting,
not to be in war, not to know you, you don' t.
Where that already becomes a constant pattern like a carriage wheel. Here we
go again. I' m not going to attack, I defend myself and
there are couples who are already used to taking it this way and that it
' s very difficult to break down there are couples where they have a great
capacity, great ability to repair what happens at those times yes, without changing
that pattern, and there are others who don' t have that, where
the ability to repair is not given. But that' s what we call
climbing then. No. You say, I say, you say, I
say no, then, first floor, second floor, third floor, until
you get to the Penhaus, being you have something else left that you wind
up or you stay there locked up. And then that causes a lot of
attention, not tension. And besides, it causes attention throughout the home and
also causes attention in children. Sometimes one wonders that if it is better for
this couple to part probably yes, because the children live this tension. One
thing is the sadness that' s going to come to you. It'
s horrible to live it dense then this also diminishes relationships sooner or later.
We' ve already talked about criticism of the den, this constant fight how
complicated, because there are times not where it seems that couples get stuck in
fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting, fighting, and we don' t
get tired you know fighting, as I said, sorry, not this fighting.
Someone does it as a lifestyle, as a lifestyle, and there are
certain professions, certain professions, and certain trades where that is applauded as for
example, yes, and with great respect. No. I don' t
want them to be so criticized at any time, but the lawyers they do
argue about Politics, they try no. So those who are used to going
not something good to argue. They' re not fabulous, I don'
t mean, but I' m saying that what you' re doing right
now in your relationship. It doesn' t work, because this arguing thing
is you want to be right and then, until you don' t.
And especially if you are, if you' re someone who goes through their
courts or has to be written, it' s or I don' t
tell him now. Yeah, it' s very different having a lawyer to
the best corporate thing that one who' s actually litigating. Within this they
fight, there are two things, well, there are several, but there
is a very interesting one that is threatening. No, okay, I'
m gonna leave you or and what you' re gonna do about it,
no, no, what you' re gonna be able to do. It
' s a question of being able to exercise. Are there some who like
to provoke, who like to provoke? Yes, and you who you are
then the other person get hooked then here I want you more or less to
describe that they are an hostile couple, one with the other and curiously,
they are dependent on each other, because if they could not stop for the
lawsuit, then it is a hostile dependence. And there we go round and
round and round and round and then these couples. To conclude, specifically with
this bit, is to be fighting, to be climbing, to have a
threat and to have a vocation. Okay, well, if you identify yourself,
you know where you' re going, yeah, and everything and we
' ve all been through at some point with the gusts and we' ve
been through it, for sure, with our brothers. Not who can do
more. That' s what happens in families. Okay effect, fourth important
element here for how not to hurt your relationship. This point does not come
from us, ok and not for good, Sometimes it happens alone, but
from that it went from the others where you tell me something and I cannot
tolerate criticism. But here I want to make criticism like criticism of a play,
no, but not criticism where it is to your person, which is
very different than criticism. Whatever you do, whatever you do. There are
people who can' t stand any criticism. OK, it gets defensive,
but if you have all three of those before, not of course you'
re going to be ready for battle. OK. The answer, the answer
of the form of faith, sometimes has to do with being condescending. And
she' s crazy, not that she' s very classic, is she
crazy? And now she' s crazy, not or with the hand between
disdain and that' s how I' m teaching you the hand. It
' s a demon, this is a mocking laugh. Of course it is,
no, yes, of course not, but it is just as it
is not on this defensive. So there' s a way to defend yourself
that I call active, where we make it bigger, fighting, and there
' s a defensive that I call passive, where I' m sending you
through a hundred tube that' s forced to come in to me by fighting
ok ok either one of us, either one of us in the asset,
in the liability doesn' t work out. And I want to say that
we all do this wine bs John. I don' t think it'
s a constant repetitive pattern. When it is. The Gotmans said that at
five they looked at their partners and told you which couple. In five years
they were probably going to separate not, that is, on a statistical issue.
You know statistics aren' t accurate, yes, we can' t
say as many as I told you, and separations aren' t always physical.
There' s no emotional separation. Not where he is, no doubt,
and it' s condescending. No, the condescending is horrifying. She
is not crazy, especially because, besides you are nerada, she generates in
the other a great impotence. No, there' s nowhere to move,
there' s nowhere to move. And when you too have powerlessness where you
don' t know where to move, there' s a question like implosion.
You don' t end up getting any smaller or you go back to
the fighting part. So, that' s tar and how they find you
on social media. Ah this one find me on Instagram, on taritron,
tary tron, such as tary conni the tanina tar critical. From this constant,
fight this, not know, receive criticism and respond to it with this
attitude. A little disdain, bad reception. Fifth element, where, as
I was reviewing this that what I was going to present did not come up
with a word, but it is probably from my time and is not concerned
with what it is to paint as a couple. OK, yeah, so
I look like the wall where I' m not absent. I' m
not listening to you. I don' t know what I' m saying
Maybe it' s from my time. I don' t know, but
I don' t know how younger people would say it. But it'
s true. You' re not here. No, you' re not?
You' re not here and I' m not just not there You
' re not there. You reverberate on the other side. I reverberate gives
a lot of powerlessness. One feels down, the other is down, too,
maybe doing it in a way to protect oneself. But one thing is
to protect yourself and another thing is how you receive it. The other one
doesn' t and I don' t know if you' ve been with
the link suddenly bop isn' t there. What' s it got to
do with gsting, too? No more than that is the new within the
rules, not in our own way, in my time it was. That
' s ignored. It is not a long pass that ends up being aggressive,
passive and it would be super interesting to know what has happened to one
of the others and which these preferably comes within our family, where we have
learned it unconsciously. Not because it' s these things that are inserted into
your little head. They insert you says and there we go there we go
like donkeys in pack to do it again yes and how it was, that
it was incorporated into the relationship that the other one stopped being. And that
' s where, where in conversation or therapy. It' s not where
you learned and who would do this to you that it' s done first,
second you can and you don' t notice the results so much.
Why, because we' re no longer watching then I do ask who taught
you that that was a way to relate who did it to grandpa, grandma,
mom, stepmother, etcetera. No, because now we have a we
' re not always the same family where we' re dad, mom and
cycles where all biology is together. But it does happen that sometimes grandfather is
very important in that and you have him or the grandmother who is a matter,
etcetera. Yes and we and we fish it Now tar is the same
as when, because I don' t know if it' s the same
thing when a couple gets angry and one of the two their style is I
don' t talk to you until I pass it and it can happen a
week or it can happen a month and suddenly it' s talking to you
again as if nothing' s happened no and as if nothing exactly goes back
to the pre- conflict. No, and nothing happened here, you could
never talk about it. He just re- entered the relationship. It'
s the same thing. There is a different form of conflict resolution. I
' d like to, well, it' s not a conflict resolution,
but it' s extremely aggressive. Yes, very ma, because when I
stop talking to you, it' s just like you don' t exist.
Ah, we' re talking about another phenomenon. Then yes, you.
The other thing is that I let you talk for a while in the
time where you can talk to your partner and tell him I need to stay
out of here, I need to make up, I need to calm down.
And the one who leaves is the one who has the responsibility to return,
but the one who takes twenty- four hours or forty- eight hours
ends up being very aggressive. And, on the other hand, he asks
this person during those twenty- four or forty- eight or thirty- six
hours, what is happening to you How do you sustain that humor, because,
as we know, there are the questions of emotions that we will then
see in our program, emotions, feelings and thoughts. Yes, we also
sustain this state through time. Of course the time and as you also know
not to ignore that degree ends up being very violent, because you do not
exist under the premise that I am regulating myself as well. But then it
is I who decide and I regulate myself and while you are, yes,
of course, and I don' t care. Besides, what' s
going on with you while I' m exactly the same. But what I
help is and what' s happening to you during that time and what are
the thoughts where you hold that line. That' s right, why those
things, these things happen, no yes, no doubt, then your thoughts
are feeding this right, because we' re back. Son Le Tarich,
it' s been a while since we closed the OK program. Then I
' ll make a little summary. There' s something in there that might
go away. Yeah, stage' s wonderful, but let' s start
with the review. Criticism not in everyone. I talked about where a difference
had to be made between the complaint and the claim. The claim let'
s make an example. It' s you going to the store to claim
that your product isn' t the right one and expect it to be changed.
Or we' re gonna make up OK unlike the complaint, you don
' t make it to Liverpool. This is dirt, et cetera. And
you' re going away, you' re furious. Then it didn'
t work out to make a difference between this and the other, and the
one that criticism has to see constantly good, constantly be attacking the person and
then we go on to disdain, to disdain where you are less. I
am in a degree of superiority that we have seen happening in many families,
which happen social groups, where we are better than the other, and it
is lowering that does not help. When then, now we go to the
third, which is to be constant ns in the lawsuit, where two of
the important things are the threat and the provocation and the escalation, where we
go against each other. Then it' s how I talked, not being
defensive where I' m co- descendant. She' s not crazy,
or this is the fool, or this is the one she can' t,
especially in the part of the economy. And finally I was talking to
you about painting on a wall It' s not also painting You look like
you' re scared sometimes. But the other doesn' t feel that way,
so there are certain things we can do defensively. Not that it'
s something learned or seen unconscious, etcetera. But it' s like seen
on the other side, if I, for example, right now, show
you my phone, my phone and it' s got here, as you
see, red, but I' m lifting it from this side I'
m seeing uo. The screen is black, but you' re looking at
it in red. So one thing is what I see or read that I
feel, and another thing is what' s going on with you with the
example of this phone. And that' s where the two worlds are valid,
but they' re partially reason only for agreement, partly for agreement.
This is how it is oriented, because we are left with a lot to
reflect and look for it follow it on Instagram find it, as tary tron
tari with I latina, find it on Instagram constantly. She' s publishing
things can follow her, and, well, you know, here in Chayo
with you, you can get her questions. It has its segment in our
program every Friday and well, every two months throughout the year will be with
its full program. So suggest you ask what you want, that she'
s talking to us and well, I thank you immensely that you' re
with us and because on Friday we' re here, we' ll be
here, yes, thank you, we' ll be Audio Central