WEBVTT 1 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:36.200 Welcome back to The Path Went Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and 2 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:42.079 I'm Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case. May fourteenth, nineteen 3 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:47.399 ninety one, Vider, Texas, thirty four year old Kathy Page is found 4 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:52.119 dead inside her car after an apparent crash into a drainage ditch well. The 5 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:56.679 scene resembles an accident. The evidence shows that Kathy was strangled to death and 6 00:00:56.719 --> 00:01:00.799 the crash was staged since Kathy's marriage to her strange husband, Steve Page, 7 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.599 was falling apart and there were a number of suspicious actions on his part. 8 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:10.760 Kathy's family believed that Steve was responsible for murdering her, but the authorities do 9 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:15.760 not believe there's enough evidence to file charges and the case remains unsolved. After 10 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:21.040 that The Path Went Chile. So today we are covering a case which has 11 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:25.640 been featured on such true crime shows as Unsolved Mysteries and Coal Justice, the 12 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:30.439 nineteen ninety one murder of Cathy Page. However, this story has garnered some 13 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:34.439 additional notoriety over the past several years because it was the apparent inspiration for the 14 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:41.760 critically acclaimed film Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri. Released in twenty seventeen. 15 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:47.400 Three Billboards stars Francis mcdormant as a woman from a small fictional town whose teenage 16 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:51.040 daughter is raped and murdered, and since the local police are unable to make 17 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:56.439 any progress in the investigation, mcdorman's character expresses her frustration by renting out a 18 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:01.079 trio of roadside billboards which contained the messages quote raped while dying, how come 19 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:07.640 Chief Willoughby still no arrests endote. The film was written and directed by Martin 20 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:10.599 McDonough, who claimed he got the idea for his story during a bus trip 21 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:15.759 through the United States during the nineteen nineties as he passed by a series of 22 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:21.479 billboards in which a murder victim's family expressed her dissatisfaction with the investigation. While 23 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:25.080 McDonough was unable to recall the exact case mentioned on these billboards, it seems 24 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:30.159 very likely that they were in reference to the murder of Kathy Page, a 25 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:32.319 wife and mother who was killed in the small town of Vider, Texas, 26 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:36.919 during a failed attempt to stage her death to look like a car accident. 27 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:42.120 Now, aside from the basic premise about the billboards, the plot and characters 28 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:46.840 in Three Billboards outside Ebbing, Missouri, are completely fictional and have nothing to 29 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.520 do with this case. In the film, no one seems to have any 30 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.560 idea who committed the murder. But the biggest source of frustration for the family 31 00:02:53.599 --> 00:02:59.479 of Kathy Page is that they are confident that the perpetrator was her estranged husband, 32 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:02.039 Steve paye Age, and believe he was never charged with the crime because 33 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:07.759 the local authorities watched the investigation and they have been protecting him. Regardless of 34 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:10.719 whether Steve Page is guilty or innocent of this crime. This is a very 35 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:15.960 tragic story which has caused a lot of hurt and dissension between two families, 36 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:19.599 and it's still up in the air whether there will ever be a conclusive resolution. 37 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:25.199 I already feel so much pain for both families, honestly, because you 38 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:30.439 have this couple who at one point was happy and they were in love enough 39 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:35.520 to get married, and then you have this quote accident where the families quite 40 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:40.759 convinced that the husband actually murders their daughter, and instead of feeling like they 41 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:46.120 get help and support and assistance from the local police, they're faced with this 42 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:49.960 reality that there's really nothing else that's going to be done for their daughter. 43 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:53.879 To bring about justice. And when you think about it, the husband also 44 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:57.759 has a family too, and that was their daughter in law at one point. 45 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:02.439 The suspected killer was Kathy's husband, and that's another family son in law 46 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:08.080 at one point, and so there were these really tight relationships and connections that 47 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:14.000 fell apart during the estrangement. But both families are left struggling with one family 48 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:17.800 thinking their sons being falsely accused of murder and another family thinking their former son 49 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:24.680 in law killed their baby. And it's devastating to feel like possibly the police 50 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:29.360 didn't either do a thorough enough investigation or didn't have proper communication to tell the 51 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:34.160 family where they truly were in that investigation. And as we're going to talk 52 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:38.120 about later on in these episodes, the people who have suffered the most in 53 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:42.079 this whole affair are Stephen Kathy's two daughters because they've been caught in the middle 54 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:46.720 of this drama between two families, and they've also lost their mother and experienced 55 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:49.720 a lot of tragedy. I also wondered to either of you seeing three billboards 56 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:54.879 outside Ebbing, Missouri. It's excellent. It is. Yes, I'll talk 57 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.759 more about it later on in these episodes. But it was kind of cool 58 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.839 to find out that this case inspired it. Have you seen it, Ash, 59 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:01.800 I don't think I've seen it, but now I'm going to have to 60 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:04.519 add it to my mess watch list, and I'm running out of great things 61 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:09.959 to watch, so this will be at the top of it. Our story 62 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:15.519 begins in nineteen ninety one Invider, Texas, a small town of around eleven 63 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:19.319 thousand people located in Orange County, and our central figure is thirty four year 64 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:25.319 old Lucille Catherine Page, who goes by the name Kathy. Originally born in 65 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:30.279 Hollandale, Mississippi, to parents James and Dorothy Fulton. Kathy also had two 66 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:34.399 brothers and three sisters. She was originally born in Hollandale, Mississippi, before 67 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:40.560 she eventually relocated to Texas. At this point, she's currently living Invider with 68 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.800 her two daughters, twelve year old Aaron and seven year old Monica. Their 69 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:47.680 house is located on a dead end street next to inter State ten, and 70 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:53.600 Cathy works as a waitress at the Hofbrow restaurant in the nearby city of Beaumont. 71 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:58.519 She originally married her husband, Steve Page, in nineteen seventy eight while 72 00:05:58.519 --> 00:06:01.079 she was pregnant with Aaron, but their relationship has not been in a good 73 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:05.279 place in a long time. After they got into a heated argument, Kathy 74 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:09.600 asked Steve for a separation, and he agreed to move out of their home 75 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:14.040 into an apartment. In spite of this, Steve maintained that they continued to 76 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:17.120 remain cordial and friendly with each other, as he believed that Kathy was simply 77 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:20.480 going through a phase in which she needed to find herself, but was willing 78 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:25.360 to work things out with him. However, Kathy's family believed the marriage had 79 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:30.040 no chance of being saved and said that Kathy was planning to divorce Steve sometime 80 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.319 in the near future. On the evening of May thirteenth, only one day 81 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:38.519 after Steve spent his first night at his new apartment, he was contacted by 82 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:43.319 Kathy, who asked if he would babysit their two daughters. Cathy told Steve 83 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.759 that she wanted to go out to a bar in Beaumont with a friend of 84 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.199 hers named Charlotte Baringen Morgan, so Steve agreed to return to the house to 85 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:55.040 watch over the kids. Steve claimed that he last saw Kathy between eleven fifteen 86 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:59.800 and eleven thirty pm before he went to sleep a short time later, but 87 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.720 sometime over the next five hours, Kathy would wind up dead under very strange 88 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:10.399 circumstances. At four twenty am on the morning of May fourteenth, a newspaper 89 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:15.879 carrier discovered Kathy's black mercury tracer in a drainage ditch alongside Interstate ten. The 90 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:21.360 location was only one hundred and fourteen yards from Kathy's residence, though the vehicle 91 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:26.519 appeared to be pointing in the opposite direction. Kathy was lying dead in the 92 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:30.240 driver's seat, so the vido of police department were summoned to the scene, 93 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:32.680 and at first glance, it appeared that she had been killed in a tragic 94 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:39.439 accident. So if her car is facing away from her home, it would 95 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:44.120 seem as though when she was leaving around eleven fifteen or eleven thirty, that's 96 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.519 when that accident would have occurred, which means she would have been sitting there 97 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:51.399 for five hours, almost when the police arrived at four twenty, or when 98 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:58.120 someone summons the police at four twenty. So that's really scary. One hundred 99 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:01.639 and fourteen yard from her house, she made it that far before she has 100 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:07.319 this tragic accident. It seems very very suspicious. Well, as we're going 101 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:11.160 to talk about, she definitely did not die at around eleven fifteen or eleven 102 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:13.399 thirty, because there are other people who can vouch for her whereabouts over the 103 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:20.079 next few hours. So that's the biggest hole in the accidents seen so far, 104 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:22.279 is that it appears that she did return home at some point, But 105 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.040 if she got into a crash while she was driving home, wires are car 106 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:30.680 facing in the opposite direction, so that would be the first sign that this 107 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:35.720 accident may have been staged. So when Detective Sergeant Ray Moseley and another investigator 108 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:39.480 went to the Page residence, Steve answered the door wearing nothing but a pair 109 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:45.080 of boxer shorts. Mosley asked Steve if he is the husband of Kathy Page 110 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.879 and whether he knew his wife's whereabouts, but Steve replied that she was not 111 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:52.759 home. Before Moseley could inform him about what happened, he noticed that Steve 112 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:56.679 appeared to be looking down the street in the direction where Kathy's car had been 113 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:03.080 found. After the investigator were invited into the house, Steve was finally notified 114 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.039 that his wife had been killed, and Mosley noticed Steve go through some radical 115 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:11.799 changes in his behavior, as he appeared to start crying and hysterically throwing himself 116 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:15.919 on the couch, before his emotions would quickly dissipate and he would go back 117 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:20.399 to carrying on a conversation with no signs of tears in his eyes. The 118 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:24.399 living room lights were left off the entire time the police were inside the house, 119 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:26.639 and even when they asked Steve to turn them on, he never did. 120 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.200 Mosley also noticed a small pile of clothes on the floor and found it 121 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.639 odd that Steve never asked to see Kathy or made any attempt to leave and 122 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.440 visit the accident scene. That is incredibly odd, and the way that he 123 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:46.200 reacts with such grander and such dramatic flare, and yet he's not asking the 124 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.720 specific questions, you know, what happened to her? Where is she? 125 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:50.799 Please? Let me see her? Can I go to her? You know? 126 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:54.480 Can my girl see her? None of that. He's not really asking 127 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.799 any of that, and so it's quite odd. Almost seems like he's trying 128 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:03.559 to appear as though he's not at all suspecting anything. When he shows up, 129 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:07.519 you know, at the door, with his boxers on and then when 130 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:09.720 they come in, he's almost alluding them by not turning the lights on and 131 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.440 things like that. Yes, I could see he'd be in shock, but 132 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.320 when they say, hey, turn your lights on, why wouldn't he? 133 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:20.639 Is he hiding something? Are there scratches on him? Or are those clothes? 134 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.039 Do they have blood on them? What was it that he didn't want 135 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.960 to come the lights on for? Could be anything right? What if there 136 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.120 was a spot of blood on a carpet? What if there had been a 137 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.840 fuss and maybe something had broken, maybe he had scratches, or maybe he's 138 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.200 trying to cloak himself in darkness because he feels as though it will be harder 139 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:45.480 to gauge whether or not his emotional reactions are genuine, because it seems to 140 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:48.679 me personally, and I'm sure to both of you as well. We've seen 141 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:52.679 cases like this before. And when you've got a perpetrator or a potential perpetrator 142 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:58.279 who doesn't ask more questions about what happened, doesn't want to see their loved 143 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:01.360 one, even if it is a wife, that you are the one that's 144 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:05.879 saying that she's finding herself and then you're going to work it out, but 145 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:09.399 you're not trying to go and see the accident, seeing and going why why, 146 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:13.120 and like, how did this happen? Let me see her. Those 147 00:11:13.159 --> 00:11:16.679 are major red flags, and obviously investigators are clocking that right from the start, 148 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.720 and especially given the relationship they currently have. Like, yes they're strange, 149 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.799 Yes they're likely going through a divorce, but they're close enough to where 150 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.080 they at least know they're going to co parent. They're close enough that she 151 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:31.720 could call him late at night and say, hey, can you watch the 152 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:33.200 girls for me? And he said, yeah, sure, that's no problem. 153 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:39.120 So even for your children's sake, you want to know those questions, 154 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:41.120 and for the mother of your children, that's still someone you have a love 155 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:45.240 for at this point, you know, it's not like she's taking them kids 156 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:48.440 away from him and ruined his career or anything like that. I mean, 157 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:52.399 at this point, they're still cooperating with one another. So again, you 158 00:11:52.480 --> 00:11:54.679 never know how someone's going to react to grief. So I do have to 159 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:58.039 say, you know, who knows. It could be his own grief reaction, 160 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:03.960 But it does definitely seemed suspicious that he didn't follow police protocol or requests 161 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.039 to turn the lights on. It's very bizarre that he went from zero to 162 00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:13.039 kind of three hundred percent, yet wasn't expressing some of the questions you typically 163 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:18.399 think he'd ask. And since he recently died, I should mention that One 164 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.440 of the most infamous examples of this behavior is oj Simpson, who flew to 165 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.600 Chicago after his ex wife was murdered, and the police called him at his 166 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.399 hotel to say, I'm sorry to inform you your ex wife has died, 167 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:31.919 and he says, oh my god, that's terrible. I'll fly right home. 168 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.120 And then when the call ended, the detective said, he never asked 169 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.440 how she died. Don't you find that very suspicious? And that's pretty much 170 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.200 the same thing with Steve, where he's not asking any questions about what happened 171 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.639 to his dead wife. It didn't take long for investigators to reach the conclusion 172 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.399 that Kathy did not actually die in a car crash, and that her so 173 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:56.720 called accident had been staged. Even though the drainage ditch was fairly deep, 174 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.480 there was very little damage to the interior or sterior of the mercury tracer and 175 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:07.360 no sign of skid marks anywhere. Kathy's feet were pushed back against the seat 176 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.600 rather than stretched towards the petals, and even though she was not wearing her 177 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:16.080 seatbelt, she remained in a reclined position in the front seat and had not 178 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.120 been thrown forward. Kathy didn't have any wounds or injuries on her upper or 179 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.960 lower body, though she did have a laceration on the back of her head, 180 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.759 as well as a broken nose in a black eye that did not appear 181 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.639 to be caused by a crash. Even those soft drinks from a fast food 182 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:37.240 restaurant were on the floorboard, the impact of the crash had somehow not caused 183 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:41.399 them to spill or tip over, and Kathy's purse was sitting upright in the 184 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:45.960 passenger seat. The rear view mirror had also been turned in sideways and was 185 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:50.679 facing the driver's seat and touching the windshield, so it was theorized that someone 186 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.600 had accidentally adjusted it while loading Kathy's body into the car. When an autopsy 187 00:13:54.679 --> 00:14:00.039 was performed later that day, it would reveal that Kathy had significant injuries to 188 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:05.519 her neck and her exact manner of death was manual strangulation. Oddly, while 189 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:09.120 there were traces of bloodstains on Kathy's skin, undergarments, and inside of her 190 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.480 clothing. There was no blood on her outer clothing, though the presence of 191 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.200 a blade of grass on the bottom of her jeans suggested that her body was 192 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:22.360 dragged across the ground at some point. It seemed likely that Kathy was murdered 193 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.360 at another location before the perpetrator cleaned and dressed her dead body. They then 194 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:31.639 placed Kathy inside her car and ran it off the road into a ditch to 195 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:35.679 give the false impression of a fatal accident. So what are we talking about 196 00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:41.399 here? Why are we even questioning what happened to Kathy? Because they told 197 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:45.840 us what happened to Kathy, The medical examiner says, it's manual strangulation. 198 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:48.840 You can see injuries to her body, like the laceration on the back of 199 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.919 her head, the broken nose in the black eye, Yet it doesn't look 200 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:58.399 like she's fallen forward and hit the steering wheel or crashed into the windshield or 201 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:03.399 anything like that. The food still standing upright in the floorboard of the car 202 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.480 is her purse, and her physical body doesn't seem to even be slouched over 203 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:13.200 or slumped over from the impact. So I'm angry. I'm starting to think, 204 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:18.240 just like the family's thinking, why is there a question mark as to 205 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.679 what happened. At least look at the facts where she's been dragged into that 206 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:26.759 car. She has grass on the bottom of her bottom of her jeans, 207 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:30.879 So she has grass on the bottom of her jeans. So them saying clearly 208 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:35.200 it's a murder. They told us it's manual strangulation. Who was it? 209 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:37.679 Who knows? But I get what the family's saying, How dare you say 210 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:41.080 this is an accident. They're telling you that it's not an accident, The 211 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:46.320 evidence is telling you it's not an accident, and yet you're telling me years 212 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:52.200 and years and years later, the police still claim it's an accident. Actually, 213 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:56.080 no, they actually did. They did reclassified as a homicide. I 214 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:58.159 mean, the police made a lot of mistakes in the investigation, but at 215 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.919 least at the very getting here, they did look at the facts and said, 216 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.480 okay, this is definitely not an accident. I mean, they didn't 217 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.480 do much a very good job at trying to find the perpetrator. But I 218 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:12.399 have seen other cases like this where they go years before changing the classification on 219 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:15.799 accidents. So at least they did the right thing right away. Oh good, 220 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.679 Okay, So I was gonna say I'm already enraged, just like everybody 221 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:23.080 else would be looking at this case, because you know you're being told by 222 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.360 medical professionals it's manual strangulation. There's no way to just say, oh, 223 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:33.879 it was a car accident. The autopsy also revealed the presence of seamen in 224 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:38.000 Kathy's vagina to indicate that she had sexual intercourse a short time before her death. 225 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:44.039 Investigators soon learned that Kathy's story about going out with her friend Charlotte was 226 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:48.399 completely false and that she was actually meeting up with a secret boyfriend at the 227 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:52.559 Best Western Hotel in Beaumont. This man did not live in the area, 228 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:56.759 and it originally met Kathy a few months earlier when he stopped by the Hofbrow 229 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.320 restaurant while she was working there, and they developed an instant connection. Since 230 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:04.200 he usually stated at the Best Western Hotel whenever he passed through Beaumont, he 231 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:08.759 made arrangements with Kathy to secretly meet up there. When the boyfriend was questioned 232 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:12.599 by police, he admitted that he and Kathy had sex at the hotel on 233 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:18.000 the night of her death before she left at around two thirty am. By 234 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.720 all accounts, this man was very cooperative with the investigation and passed a polygraph, 235 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:26.400 so he was cleared as a suspect. One of the oddest details of 236 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.160 Kathy's death is that when she was found inside her car, she was not 237 00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.079 wearing makeup, socks, or any of her jewelry, including her watch, 238 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:37.880 ear rings, and wedding ring. The boyfriend confirmed that when he last saw 239 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:41.720 Kathy at the hotel, she was dressed in the same clothes she was wearing 240 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:44.680 at the time of her death, but he was also certain that she was 241 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.240 still wearing her makeup and jewelry. According to those who knew her, Kathy 242 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:52.079 usually only took off her jewelry when she got ready for bed, leading to 243 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:56.720 speculation that she had made it home at some point before she was killed. 244 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:02.160 Another surprising revelation from Kathy's autopsy is that some of the seamen found in her 245 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:06.880 vagina did not have any sperm, which indicated that she had sexual intercourse with 246 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.119 someone who had undergone a vasectomy. Well, Kathy's boyfriend never had of a 247 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.920 sect to me, but Steve Page had received one months earlier. When confronted 248 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.400 about this, Steve claimed that when he first arrived at the house that night, 249 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:22.200 Kathy stepped out of the shower while wearing a towel, and they decided 250 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.000 to have sex on the carpet in the living room before she left. However, 251 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:30.839 Kathy's family had a hard time believing this story, as prior to moving 252 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.359 out, Steve had been sleeping on the couch and there did not appear to 253 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:38.319 be any intimacy left in the relationship. It seemed unlikely to them that Kathy 254 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:41.960 would agree to have sexed with Steve right before going out to meet up with 255 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:47.680 another man. None of that makes sense. I just don't buy it. 256 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:51.400 You have Kathy who has told people were clearly going to get a divorce. 257 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:55.720 She's going out to meet with this boyfriend, which is possibly one of the 258 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:57.799 reasons she's pretty confident in a divorce, like, I still got it. 259 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:00.920 There's someone to try me. I have a good time with him, and 260 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:06.160 I don't feel the same stress and upset that I feel when I'm around my 261 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:10.799 ex husband or my husband who I'm estranged from. And if you think about 262 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:14.720 this, she's asked him to watch the kids, so the kids are close 263 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.359 by, sleeping let's say in another room or something like that, and his 264 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:22.079 account is like they had this hot I can't even control myself kind of sex 265 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.200 on the floor, Okay, as grown people, I'm just telling you, 266 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:30.039 my back hurts too much for that. I'm not having sex on the living 267 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:33.680 room floor, and I'm surely not doing that while my kids are in the 268 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.720 house. Like, you have to be more discreet even if they're sleeping, 269 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:40.400 so they don't have that kind of relationship where it's this hot steam. I 270 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:44.079 can't even make it into the bedroom to have sex with you. It doesn't 271 00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:47.440 make any sense. It makes more sense that she gets home and she's getting 272 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:51.640 ready for bed, and he's either figured out that she was out with this 273 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:53.559 man or she says something like, look, I'm interested in someone else, 274 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:59.640 I'm not interested in you, and he is enraged, feeling betrayed, feeling 275 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:04.160 emasculated, things like that, and he hurts her. Remember she has a 276 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:08.599 laceration on the back of her head, her eyes are bruised. She also 277 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:11.920 has a broken nose. So it's more likely that he beat her, hurt 278 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:18.200 her, killed her, and raped her because she wasn't interested in him anymore 279 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:22.680 and he wasn't going to allow somebody else to have his wife. It's almost 280 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.519 like he wanted to stake his claim one last time by raping her and then 281 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.880 killing her and just ending her life like that. But I'm with you, 282 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:36.480 I don't think that in any world is it possible that this man that she 283 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:38.319 seems to be happy to be rid of, she's told all of her friends 284 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:42.720 and family. No, this divorce is happening like it's going through, and 285 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:48.160 she's met a guy she's got an instinct connection with and they're meeting up to 286 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.279 have this exciting night that's going to be I'm sure filled with passion. The 287 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.759 last thing that she's going to be thinking about doing is having sex with her 288 00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.640 ex husband while the kids are there. It just doesn't even sound believable. 289 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:04.039 It sounds like he's trying to come up with a reason why his semen is 290 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:08.480 inside her. Yeah, and he probably wasn't counting on that because they probably 291 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.400 would have assumed that all the semen belonged to the boyfriend until they noticed that 292 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:15.680 some of it was missing sperm and that the boyfriend didn't have a vasectomy. 293 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:18.640 So Steve realized, oh, I have to come up with a cover story 294 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:22.640 to explain this, and this was the best he could dream up. But 295 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:26.039 of course no one believed it because knowing the circumstances of their relationship, there 296 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:30.119 was no way they were having sex on the living room floor that night. 297 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:36.200 The Fulton family would notice a number of suspicious actions on Steve's part following Kathy's 298 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:40.119 death, though Steve and his own family would later dispute that a lot of 299 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:44.960 these things even took place. According to Kathy's parents, James and Dorothy Fulton, 300 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.839 Steve bwonned their residence that morning to inform them about what happened. The 301 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:53.039 Fulton said they immediately went over to the Page residence and when they arrived, 302 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:59.240 they saw Steve walking around the living room wiping his hands with a bathcloth while 303 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:02.839 dressed in red shorts and a white T shirt, and he appeared to have 304 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:07.319 a scratch on his nose. Shortly thereafter, Dorothy said she noticed Steve doing 305 00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:11.759 laundry and washing clothes. There had been contradictory accounts from different witnesses who were 306 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:17.240 at the residence that morning who have either confirmed or denied that they heard the 307 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:21.079 washing machine running, though most of the people who denied it were members of 308 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:26.319 Steve's family. According to Kathy's sister Jan Kelly, when she visited the residence, 309 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.920 Steve made a comment that Kathy had gone out drinking and was probably drunk 310 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:34.000 or taking valium when she crashed her car into the ditch, even though the 311 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:40.599 toxicology report would show no traces of any alcohol in her system. Kathy did 312 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:45.160 use valium, but Steve alleged on a few occasions that Kathy was also using 313 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:49.400 cocaine, though he later acknowledged that these allegations were untrue and that he'd simply 314 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:55.839 made the mistake of repeating rumors that he'd heard about Kathy's drug use. I 315 00:22:55.880 --> 00:23:02.000 love how his immediate response is like victim blameing and and accounting and making excuses 316 00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.359 for how and why the accident happened. I don't know, it just seems 317 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:07.559 like, you know, immediately when someone passes away, you don't really think 318 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.279 about all those things. You're not sitting there going like, oh man, 319 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:15.119 I know he was abused in drugs and drunk and flew into that ditch and 320 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.519 these kinds of things. I might ask that, like I might say, 321 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.000 do you guys think it's possible she was drinking and driving? Do you guys 322 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.799 think it's possible that she ingested something or took medication that made her really sleepy? 323 00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:33.759 But to start spreading rumors and sharing definitive kind of character attacks on her 324 00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:38.240 seems really bizarre. It's okay to say what caused the accident and just you 325 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.200 know, hypothesize like what could have happened, But it almost seems like he's 326 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:48.400 trying to make sure everyone looks at Kathy's bad behavior, which isn't even truthful 327 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.240 in this scenario, and doesn't look his direction. It's very bizarre. He 328 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:56.720 has that scratch on his nose. It's very bizarre. He's washing clothes. 329 00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:00.119 I tend to side with the people who aren't trying to protect him, which 330 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:06.440 would be Kathy's family. It's possible they misheard something, but usually I mean, 331 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:08.519 if you think you heard the washing machine running, I guarantee you the 332 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:12.839 morning your daughter died, you'd say why was laundry important today? Like? 333 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:17.799 Why are you doing laundry right now? We're trying to help two babies deal 334 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:19.559 with the death of their mom. I'm trying to help you deal with her 335 00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:25.240 death. Why are we doing the household chores right now? Oh? I've 336 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:29.079 seen so many cases like this where someone who is not known for doing laundry 337 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:32.960 at all suddenly feels compelled to do it. After their spouse goes missing or 338 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:36.759 is murdered, they just suddenly feel this need to clean their clothing, even 339 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:40.079 though that's completely at a character for them, so it seems awfully convenient. 340 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.160 The day after Kathy's death, one of her other sisters, Sherry Vallentine, 341 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:49.200 visited the house and said she noticed a very strong smell and saw oscillating fans 342 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:53.039 being used to dry out the carpet. Steve claimed he was cleaning the carpet 343 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:56.519 after spilling some fish breeze on it, and said the spill occurred on the 344 00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:00.319 very same spot where he and Kathy had s on the evening of May the 345 00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:04.799 thirteenth. There has been a lot of dispute from different witnesses about the details 346 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.039 of when Steve supposedly cleaned the carpet, as his daughter Aaron, and one 347 00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:14.240 of Steve's sisters have always claimed they personally witnessed him spilled the grease, but 348 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.839 this incident did not actually occur until after Kathy's funeral. Oddly, Steve told 349 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:22.799 multiple members of the Fulton family that he did not want the police coming over 350 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.680 to his house because they might find blood on the carpet at a spot where 351 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.839 Kathy had previously shaved her legs. He said he did not trust the police, 352 00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:36.440 believing they had previously planted evidence on some of his friends. When Steve 353 00:25:36.519 --> 00:25:41.000 was interviewed by Detective Moseley at the police station, he even repeated the same 354 00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:45.400 statement about not wanting the police at his house because he feared they might find 355 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.440 something to incriminate him. The police also told Steve that they wanted to form 356 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.359 an autopsy on Kathy, but he told them that he didn't want anyone quote 357 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:57.599 unquote cutting into her, so James Fulton was the one who officially authorized this. 358 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:03.039 He seemed to indicate that Cathy was manually strangled by a left handed person, 359 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:08.000 and there would be contradictory accounts about whether Steve was left handed. Steve 360 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:11.519 and his family maintained that he was right handed, even though members of the 361 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:15.920 Faulton family and other witnesses claimed they had seen and performed tasks with his left 362 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:19.519 hand. He could also be ambidextrius, where he can use both hands to 363 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:23.799 do task pretty equally. He might default to his right hand, but doesn't 364 00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:27.359 mean he can't do things with his left hand, and maybe since his right 365 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:30.559 hand's stronger, he's holding Kathy down with that one, and he's using his 366 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:34.400 left hand, which he's very capable of doing, to injure her as well. 367 00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:40.920 Man, this is really frustrating. You talk about a husband who supposedly 368 00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:45.480 cares so much for this woman, he wants to be at least apparent with 369 00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:48.720 her, but also he believes here getting back together, and then all of 370 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:51.759 a sudden he's like, not in this house, police aren't coming in here. 371 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.720 Remember that one time she cut her legs shaving. Right here on this 372 00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:57.920 carpet is where she was bleeding, and it's right where we had sex, 373 00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.160 and it's right where I spilled this fish grease. Very bizarre that he's trying 374 00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:08.400 to cover up and hide the home in general, that he's drawing attention to 375 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:12.000 himself, whether he knows it or not, by having that carpet cleaned again 376 00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:18.319 the day after she dies. Day of her death, he's doing laundry and 377 00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.440 trying to talk about how she probably was drunk or overdose on something. And 378 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:27.759 the second day he has fans oscillating all around a really strong smell where he's 379 00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:33.880 cleaning this carpet because he was cooking fish that he's spilled there. And that 380 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.480 story doesn't even check out, because even the people that are his alibi witnesses 381 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.519 for that say, oh, yeah, it happened at the day of her 382 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:45.400 funeral, which clearly was not two days after her death. Question, so 383 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:49.000 where was this spot that he was claiming that he spilled the fish grease? 384 00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:52.960 Was it even in the kitchen? Uh? No, it was on the 385 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:55.839 carpet, like in the living room, Like why would it be there? 386 00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:59.279 Why why would you have fish grease in the living room. I don't understand 387 00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:02.559 you walking around the pan or a that of fish grease. And when you 388 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:04.640 shave your legs and you cut your legs jewels, do you sit there and 389 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.839 like with blood dripping down your legs, You're like, let's go hang out 390 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:10.680 in the living room with this. You sit in a bathroom or you at 391 00:28:10.759 --> 00:28:12.240 least get to the kitchen and put a band aid on. You're not like, 392 00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:15.160 no problem, guys, I'm just dripping blood down my legs to the 393 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.799 carpet and I'm just gonna sit here with it. And who shaves their legs 394 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:22.839 in the living room over carpet? Anyways, it doesn't even make sense. 395 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.599 Well, believe it or not, this is not the first case we've covered 396 00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:29.519 in which someone has used as it as an excuse. You might remember a 397 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:33.160 couple of years ago we did an episode about the murderer of Lulukor Shane, 398 00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:36.599 and that was another one where they found blood in her apartment and the suspects 399 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:37.960 said, oh, yeah, she was shaving her legs there that night. 400 00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.480 It's very convenient that women like to shave their legs in the living room shortly 401 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:45.759 before they get murdered. It seems to be a common theme. And with 402 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:48.519 twelve year old kids driving sex in the living room floor, it's just our 403 00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:52.960 bags can't do it. We just can't. The Fultons also noticed some suspicious 404 00:28:52.960 --> 00:29:00.279 behavior from one of Steve's best friends. A private investigator named Roger Howell told 405 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.400 the family that he needed to take photographs of Kathy's body in order to help 406 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.119 Steve, and asked to view the body at the funeral, though they could 407 00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:12.160 not understand why. During a visit to the Page residence, Sherry claimed she 408 00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:17.799 saw Roger enter the bathroom with Steve while carrying a manila envelope. When they 409 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.279 walked out, Sherry noticed that the envelope was bulky and made a metallic sound 410 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.480 when it moved. While Stephen Roger later claimed the envelope was actually a bag 411 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.960 of candy. The Fultons have always suspected that it contained Kathy's watch, as 412 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.759 Steve needed to get rid of it since it would have proved Kathy arrived home 413 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:40.400 and took it off before she was killed. One of Kathy's coworkers at the 414 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:45.599 Hofbrow restaurant also claimed that Roger phoned her on the morning of May fourteenth to 415 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:49.160 inform her about what happened to Kathy, but he specifically stated that she'd been 416 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:55.240 strangled to death, even though the autopsy that determined the manner of death would 417 00:29:55.319 --> 00:30:00.440 not be performed until hours later. Wow, what kind of can you need 418 00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.640 to bring in a manila bag just to just to ask people? But okay, 419 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:10.200 backing up, this is what they're preparing the body two days, three 420 00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:15.839 days after she dies, and Steve has felt it necessary to reach out to 421 00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:19.559 his best friend, Roger Howell, who's a private investigator, to do things 422 00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:23.680 to help him. What is he helping you with? As far as you 423 00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:27.599 know right now, she was in a car accident. So what are you 424 00:30:27.720 --> 00:30:32.480 calling a private investigator for now? If you're telling me three or four months 425 00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:36.279 later, the police haven't left you alone, that you're being called in every 426 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:40.440 week question that they keep asking you to take polygraph tests, they keep lying 427 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:42.839 to you about information that you know is not true. Yeah, do you 428 00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:45.799 get an attorney? Do you get a private investigator? Sure, my gosh, 429 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:52.200 sure, But before her body's even buried, before you even know the 430 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.160 cause of death, you're going to have this private investigator or working on your 431 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.400 behalf to quote help you. There's no help right now, just be here 432 00:30:59.480 --> 00:31:03.119 in present with because my wife's dead. And of course a more standing thing 433 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:07.000 is that Roger knew about the strangulation before the police even dead, So you 434 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:11.000 get the impression that Steve had to tell him a secret. So yeah, 435 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:15.640 so where's Roger and all this? Does he get questioned by the police later 436 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.079 in the investigation? I'm not entirely sure. I mean, he seems to 437 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:23.079 be the wild card here where it really sounds like he had knowledge about what 438 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:27.240 actually happened. But he has never really been questioned or interrogated, even though 439 00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:32.480 he may actually be an accessory to murder. Nor would he tell the truth 440 00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.240 though, because it's clear he's going to help Steve do whatever he wants, 441 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:40.119 in fact, possibly even getting rid of a watch as eminence. Do we 442 00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:44.519 know anything about the phone records between the two of them, especially on the 443 00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:49.599 evening or like May thirteenth and May fourteenth. That's a good question because phone 444 00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:52.359 records do play a good, big role in this case, because we know 445 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:56.720 about some phone calls that took place during the early evening hours. But I 446 00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:00.440 think that if they found a record that Steve had phone er around the time 447 00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:04.119 that his wife was killed, I think we would have heard about it. 448 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:07.599 So who knows. Maybe Roger came over to his house or something and he 449 00:32:07.640 --> 00:32:09.599 told him in person. So there just is in a paper trail or an 450 00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:14.079 electronic trail, or maybe he was smart enough to drive to a payphone, 451 00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:16.559 because there was lots of payphones back then. That is true, Yes, 452 00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:20.759 darn't many now, So crooks are out of luck if they want to make 453 00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:25.759 a secret phone call. So Kathy's friend Charlotte confirmed that on the night of 454 00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:29.920 her death, Kathy had phoned her to let her know that she was planning 455 00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:34.359 to secretly meet up with her boyfriend at a hotel. Kathy told Charlotte that 456 00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:37.839 Steve might attempt to check up on her, so she asked Charlotte to cover 457 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:42.559 for by not answering the phone in case Steve called well. Charlotte told police 458 00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:45.599 that she received a call at two thirty am that morning, and when she 459 00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:49.920 answered it, the caller immediately hung up, leading her to suspect it was 460 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:53.640 Steve. Charlotte did receive a call from Steve sometime between five point thirty and 461 00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:58.200 six am, where he informed her that Kathy had not yet come home, 462 00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:01.720 so Charlotte told him they had out together before they parted ways hours earlier. 463 00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:07.480 There has been some dispute about when this second phone call actually took place, 464 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.240 as Steve would keep changing his story about what time he made the call, 465 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.480 providing such differing times as two thirty, three thirty, and four thirty. 466 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:20.920 While this has never been corroborated, Sherry Valentine claimed that she heard from Steve's 467 00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:23.559 sister in law that after Kathy left for the night, Steve found a pair 468 00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:28.839 of phone numbers Kathy had scrawled down in a notebook next to the phone. 469 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:31.920 The first number was Charlotte's phone number and the second was for the Best Western 470 00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:37.559 Hotel in Beaumont. Kathy's family theorized that after Steve called Charlotte's number and discovered 471 00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:42.119 she was still at home. He decided to call the second number, and 472 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.279 after learning it was for a hotel, he became convinced that Cathy was with 473 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:50.839 another man. When Kathy arrived home later that morning, Steve may have confronted 474 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.680 her about this, and things escalated to the point where he raped Kathy and 475 00:33:53.720 --> 00:34:00.000 strangled her to death before staging the fake accident scene. That's exactly what happened. 476 00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:05.119 Yeah, yes, you have that right where Charlotte is already prepped. 477 00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:07.480 She knows, Hey, my husband's clearly gonna call. I'm using you as 478 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:12.599 my alibi. Can you just not answer the phone tonight so that he knows 479 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.760 we're out together? While at two thirty in the morning, if you weren't 480 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:19.519 going out, that's kind of startling to get a phone call. And when 481 00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.360 he hears her voice, he goes, well, well, well, well 482 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:27.079 she's not out with my wife. Calls that other number and it's a hotel. 483 00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.000 He does exactly what you just said, Robin. He realizes she's at 484 00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:35.960 a hotel with somebody, and when she comes home, you know, there's 485 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.840 a confrontation there. I wouldn't be shocked if she said something like I'm done 486 00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:44.920 with you. I found someone who makes me happy. You get over yourself. 487 00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:47.599 I'm not getting back with you. And like we talked about earlier, 488 00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:53.639 that feeling of lack of control, the feeling that you're being emasculated because you 489 00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:59.039 didn't keep your prize and you didn't get to keep your girl, all of 490 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:02.719 that would lead to a rage that I think could have resulted in the injuries 491 00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:07.480 you see to poor Kathy. She has the bruises, she has the broken 492 00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:12.079 nose, she has a laceration on the back of her head, and she's 493 00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:15.280 been manually strangled. That seems like someone who's acting out of pure rage. 494 00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.199 And then to think that he would also sexually assault her and rape her. 495 00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:25.760 Oh, I mean, it fits exactly the scenario you just described. Of 496 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:30.840 course, Steve denied any involvement in Kathy's death. When the case was featured 497 00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:35.800 on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries which aired in April of nineteen ninety eight, 498 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:38.960 Steve agreed to be interviewed, and he offered his own theory about who killed 499 00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:44.960 Kathy. Steve claimed that he had received a number of phone threats in which 500 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:49.000 he was warned that the same thing in which happened to Kathy could also happen 501 00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:52.519 to him. He said that a member of a prominent Italian family who were 502 00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:59.320 involved in the Quote Beaumont mafia, was responsible for Kathy's death, and the 503 00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:02.960 Vita Policeice Department when were attempting to frame him for the crime and refusing to 504 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:08.119 investigate other leads for their part. The Fulton family believed that the viter PD 505 00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:13.880 and the Orange County District Attorney's Office were covering for Steve and did not want 506 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:17.800 to arrest him as a number of the investigating officers, including Detective Ray Mosley, 507 00:36:19.000 --> 00:36:23.239 knew him personally and Steve's parents were reportedly friends with the chief of police. 508 00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:28.360 The viter PD did make a number of mistakes in the investigation, as 509 00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:31.519 they took pictures of Kathy's so called car crash with no film inside the camera, 510 00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:36.440 so there were no actual photos of the crime scene to be entered into 511 00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:40.440 evidence. For unknown reasons, the District Attorney's office refused to grant the police 512 00:36:40.480 --> 00:36:45.320 a warrant to search the Page residents until years after Kathy's death took place, 513 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:51.400 and the search failed to uncover any evidence. During this time period, the 514 00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:55.119 Fulton family noticed that whenever they placed flowers on Kathy's grave. They would always 515 00:36:55.159 --> 00:37:00.519 return to find them vandalized and thrown away, so they became con vince that 516 00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:05.519 Steve was responsible. When the Fultons hired a private investigator to follow Steve around, 517 00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:08.239 he managed to videotape him in the act of kicking a set of flowers 518 00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:14.400 off Kathy's gravesite. So Steve was subsequently indicted on the charge of desecreating a 519 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:19.159 grave and received a sentence of probation. Steve eventually moved he of state and 520 00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.639 took his two daughters, Aaron and Monica, to Tennessee to live with his 521 00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.199 sister. What a real winner, you know. I mean, I don't 522 00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:30.079 care how frustrated you are. You don't go to someone's gravesite and kick the 523 00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:35.000 flowers off of her grave. That's just I don't know, disgusting is not 524 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:37.760 a good enough word for it. But what really bothers me is is fact 525 00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:44.679 that they don't get a search warrant for years after Kathy's death to search the 526 00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:49.480 home. The reality is there was a declaration that she was manually strangled, 527 00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:54.159 and it clearly she did not die in this car accident. Therefore, you 528 00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:59.039 have a right to go to the place where you know she was recently, 529 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:04.320 which is her own home. Why they weren't able to look through that house, 530 00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.639 and why they wouldn't make that a priority even if Steve wasn't one of 531 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:10.559 the people at the top of their list. I want to see what could 532 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:14.159 have happened in the last hours of her life. I want to see even 533 00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:16.639 when she was getting ready. Could we find something like those phone numbers? 534 00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:21.639 Would he find something like in her diary that says I'm worried because this person's 535 00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:24.559 harassing me. They didn't get to go look for any of that stuff because 536 00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:30.559 it would be years later. Why wouldn't they search the page home and the 537 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:35.079 Best Western. You've got two men who admittedly have their semen inside of her. 538 00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:38.079 One of the perpetrators is likely one of those two men, and the 539 00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:44.519 boyfriend has basically been eliminated because of his polygraph. But still you would search 540 00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:47.719 that Best Western hotel room just in case he was able to pass it while 541 00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:52.719 he was still guilty. But it just seems odd that nobody would ground to 542 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:58.320 warrant, especially since he said that the last time he saw her she had 543 00:38:58.360 --> 00:39:01.519 on her jewelry, and then when her body was found, she had all 544 00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:05.519 that stuff taken off, like her makeup and her jewelry, which is something 545 00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.639 she only did right before bed, so it seems like she likely did go 546 00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:13.719 home. So I just can't understand why they wouldn't grant that search warrant. 547 00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:15.800 Yeah, if they had done it right away, they might have found the 548 00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:20.800 watch before Roger was able to take it out and put it in the envelope, 549 00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:23.199 and that would have been concrete evidence that Kathy had made it home and 550 00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:27.960 could have potentially led to an arrest. And if they got that warrant, 551 00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:30.519 they might have been able to get some clothes that may or may not have 552 00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:36.039 had blood or bodily fluids on them, maybe some sheets, and that spot 553 00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:39.960 on the ground where the quote unquote fish grease was that they had sex or 554 00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:44.480 she might have cut her leg with a razor. They would have had access 555 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.800 to that, but since they waited for years, he had all the time 556 00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:51.559 in the world to clean it up. So Ashley, after hearing Steve's comments 557 00:39:51.559 --> 00:39:53.000 string his interview, have you changed your mind? Do you now believe it 558 00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:58.159 was the Beaumont mafia? Totally? I feel really sorry for him that he's 559 00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:00.559 under suspicion and he was such a great, you mean loving husband and father 560 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.000 that he kicked the flowers off her grave. It was just a stress, 561 00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:08.360 that's all. Yeah. Absolutely, it's a hotbed for mafia activity. Beaumont, 562 00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:15.199 Texas. Since a grand jury declined to indict Steve with Kathy's murder, 563 00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:20.000 James Fulton became very frustrated with the lack of progress in the investigation. So 564 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:24.159 you were surmonded by placing hand paided signs alongside Interstate ten, which shared such 565 00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:30.400 messages as quote, bider PD botched up the case waiting for confession. This 566 00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:34.920 could happen to you end quote. As the years went on, James decided 567 00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:39.599 to publicly express his frustration by renting a series of billboards along the interstate containing 568 00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:44.840 statements like quote, this is Orange County, city of Bider Here you get 569 00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:49.559 by with brutally murdering a woman end quote. A wrongful death suit would be 570 00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:52.679 filed against Steve on behalf of James and Dorothy Fulton, and one of Kathy's 571 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:58.199 sisters, Diane Daegel, who was acting as the official guardian for Kathy's daughter 572 00:40:58.280 --> 00:41:01.440 Monica, since she was still a minor at that time. The Fultons wanted 573 00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:06.519 to prevent Steve from collecting Kathy's life insurance, and the case would go through 574 00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:10.280 a pair of mistrials in civil court, which featured many pieces of conflicting testimony 575 00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:15.880 from the Fulton and Page families. While Kathy's sister Sherry testified that Steve was 576 00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:21.960 controlling, jealous, and abusive and would often grab or push Kathy during arguments, 577 00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.760 Steve and his family denied this, and their daughter Aaron testified that she 578 00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:30.760 never personally witnessed anything like this. However, during the third trial in October 579 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:35.800 of nineteen ninety nine, the Fultons finally won a civil judgment against Steve, 580 00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:38.880 as the jury awarded them a total of two hundred thousand dollars in damages and 581 00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:44.079 life insurance, with one hundred and fifty thousand dollars going to the Fultons and 582 00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:47.719 the other fifty thousand going to Monica. So I'm assuming he didn't get life 583 00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:54.079 insurance of any kind, right, Like they got everything plus the damages exactly, 584 00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:57.960 Like that was part of the total, the damages and the life insurance 585 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.280 that he was trying to get, Okay, So there had to be enough 586 00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:05.760 where this civil court, Remember it's a different burden of proof. You have 587 00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:09.280 to prove in a civil court. But it's really sad that his kids are 588 00:42:09.320 --> 00:42:14.440 being called into this. They're having to sit there and when their mother's deceased, 589 00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:19.400 their suspect suspicion on their father that he killed their mother. Now they're 590 00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:22.159 having to recount was my dad abusive or not? I mean, just the 591 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:28.000 trauma of that is hard and trying to think about, like, Okay, 592 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:31.239 my parents fuss, but was the abusive. I just feel really sad for 593 00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:35.719 both the kids who are trying to defend the only parent they have left, 594 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:39.440 you know, even if they're wrong in this situation, And my heart is 595 00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:45.800 breaking for her family who's saying pay attention please. We're literally going to any 596 00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.039 links possible, even making hand pain and signs and putting on the side of 597 00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.400 the road saying, well, someone listened to us. And finally the civil 598 00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.960 case did get someone to listen to them. But no amount of money is 599 00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:59.480 going to bring any kind of feeling of justice to the family. It simply 600 00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:04.280 says at least Steve didn't get that too right, at least he didn't benefit 601 00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.280 from that as well as her being deceased. But Monica got some of the 602 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:12.440 money, which is the miner at the time. I'm sure Aaron was taken 603 00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.920 care of as well in certain ways by the family, but oh, it 604 00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:21.719 just what a heartbreaking reality that those kids had to go through. Yeah, 605 00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:24.039 we're going to go into more detail about this in our next episode because Aaron 606 00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:29.400 in recent years has published a blog talking about all the trauma this whole situation 607 00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:32.280 has caused for her, and she has some pretty tough feelings not only against 608 00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:37.599 her father but from her mother's side of the family as well. And it's 609 00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:40.000 sad. People talk about kids and you know, like they'lding on a documentary 610 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.559 and they'll be defending the living parent or trying to understand what happened, but 611 00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:47.840 they're not. They almost seem naive. But I sit back and I think 612 00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:52.480 that's all they have left. And if that house of cards falls too, 613 00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:55.000 if they really come to the conclusion that their dad killed their mother and he's 614 00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.760 this abusive man, like I can't have a relationship with him anymore either. 615 00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:05.599 I two parents, So I do understand the psychology and the default to trying 616 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:07.199 to say, like, is there a way to explain this away or to 617 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:10.960 make it where my dad's not responsible? And I think the older those kids 618 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:16.800 get. The more that you know, the naive mind starts to kind of 619 00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:21.639 fade and some of those realities would come to pass. It's very, very 620 00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:27.760 sad. Why do you guys think that Monica got fifty thousand but Aaron wasn't 621 00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:31.679 awarded any I'm I think she was a miner. Well, Monica was a 622 00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:35.480 miner, and let me just double check. I want to see how old 623 00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:38.639 Aaron was. So Aaron was twelve at the time of her death, so 624 00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:42.960 she would have been nineteen at the civil trials, so she wouldn't have been 625 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.920 a miner at that time. But it could be because I think she was 626 00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:49.840 on Steve's side, like she seemed to be testifying on his behalf saying that 627 00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:53.519 I never personally witnessed any abuse or controlling behavior from him. So maybe that's 628 00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:58.519 why she didn't get any of the insurance money. That's unfortunate, though, 629 00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:02.599 because the reality is she is still a child who has been traumatized by this 630 00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:08.280 situation and everything that Ashley said rings true. For somebody to be able to 631 00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:14.320 actually absorb that information and go, oh, yes, there is a strong 632 00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:17.719 likelihood or probability that my father is the one that killed my mother I think 633 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:23.960 that you're going to fight tooth and nail on a subconscious level to prevent yourself 634 00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:28.920 from believing that right. You're going to distance yourself as much as you can 635 00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:32.360 from that, because the reality you have to confront is, do I write 636 00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:36.840 off my father? Do I not have a relationship with him? You've already 637 00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:40.360 lost your mother. Do you really want to face a reality in which your 638 00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:45.559 father is guilty of murdering your mother and then you have to make a choice 639 00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:47.199 to cut him out of your life or not. I think it's easier to 640 00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:51.079 go no, he didn't do it. You double down, And I mean, 641 00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:54.000 I'm going to use this example, not that I think necessarily one way 642 00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:59.559 or the other that Michael Peterson is guilty or not. But the staircase, 643 00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:06.119 all the kids there, except for Kathleen's biological daughter, all supported Michael wholeheartedly, 644 00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:08.000 even though Kathleen had been in their life for a very long time. 645 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:13.320 I think just the idea of him going away it was just to be able 646 00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:17.400 to grasp that is just too much for the psyche of a young child to 647 00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:22.559 be able to grasp. But also for an adult child. No one wants 648 00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:25.360 to believe that. And same with his family. Look, they're all coming 649 00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:29.760 to his rescue, saying the washer was not running, it was not on 650 00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:32.679 while we were there. They're trying to defend him too. I think even 651 00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:37.800 if you had a gut feeling that your son was responsible, you would want 652 00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:42.400 to do anything but look that in the eye. You would want to explain 653 00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:46.079 in a way any way possible. And even when you talk about the children, 654 00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:51.360 you know, like the case of Gabriel Fernandez, where days before he's 655 00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:55.440 killed by this mother who's been abusing him for years, he's holding up a 656 00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:59.679 sign that says Happy Mother's Day, and he writes her a letter about what 657 00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:04.000 an amazing mother she is to him. And so I really do think our 658 00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:07.000 brains tried to turn off the reality that the people that are supposed to love 659 00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:09.840 us the most, and the people who are supposed to protect us and are 660 00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:14.119 going to be in our life forever, that they could be anything but good. 661 00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:19.360 And I could see a scenario where the family is like, we know 662 00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:22.119 that he didn't do it. They've told themselves this, but we need to 663 00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:27.239 create a scenario where the police are going to believe that there's a strong likelihood 664 00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:31.760 that he wasn't cleaning up potential evidence from a crime scene, thereby saying no, 665 00:47:32.119 --> 00:47:38.159 the washer and the dryer weren't running, and being okay with potentially fabricating 666 00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:44.679 something like that because they're telling themselves they know that he's innocent. They're just 667 00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:49.760 helping show the police what they already know themselves to be true. Now that 668 00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:53.000 Stevid lost a wrongful death lawsuit, and as attempts to appeal the verdicts were 669 00:47:53.039 --> 00:47:59.559 unsuccessful, James Fulton felt more confident about publicly accusing him of Kathy's murder on 670 00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:04.000 his billboards. He soon erected a new one, which featured a photo of 671 00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:08.039 Steve's face and the words quote invited. He got by with murder. Found 672 00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:14.480 responsible for wife's death in civil court, Appeals court, upheld conviction, pleaded 673 00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:20.519 guilty of desecrating her grave, criminal case, no arrests end quote. In 674 00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:24.840 twenty twelve, James posted yet another new billboard, featuring both Steve and Cathy's 675 00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:30.559 photos in it. Read quote, Steve Page brutally murdered his wife in nineteen 676 00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:35.360 ninety one. Viter PD does not want to solve this case. I believe 677 00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:40.119 they took a bribe. The Attorney General should investigate James Fulton her father end 678 00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:45.039 quote. A billboard was also put up in the park Invider with the message 679 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:52.320 quote Vider's garbage dump park security provided by the local police department. I believe 680 00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:54.760 my daughter was being raped while she was strangled to death in nineteen ninety one. 681 00:48:55.199 --> 00:49:00.280 The Viter police department would not accept outside help and the case is never 682 00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:04.400 been solved. I believe the police department did not want to solve this case. 683 00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:08.400 Will you be the next unsolved murder? Predators love parks? The Lighter 684 00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:13.719 police department did not solve my daughter's murder. Will be assisting you with any 685 00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:20.400 complaints or problems with this so called park. James Fulton end quote, Wow, 686 00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:25.199 yeah, oh, okay, James. I mean everyone deserves a daddy 687 00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:31.280 like James. I'm kind of surprised he would go to this kind of links. 688 00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:36.360 I'd be scared of something like a libel or slander kind of case coming 689 00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:39.360 against my family and keeping this in court and things like that. But he 690 00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:43.639 wants it in the public eye, and I understand that he wants to say. 691 00:49:44.039 --> 00:49:45.480 You might be looking away, you might think this is done, but 692 00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:50.760 it's not until you convict someone of my daughter's murder, and until you look 693 00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:53.599 at the evidence. Ye know, you're a father who's hearing that your daughter 694 00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:59.760 who's deceased had semen inside of her that has no sperm. So you know 695 00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:05.519 fat your son in law had sex or force himself on your daughter, but 696 00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:09.559 for her death or shortly after her death. And you know that your daughter 697 00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:15.239 had no intention of sleeping with her a strange husband. And so the ultimate 698 00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:17.880 conclusion you come to is that he raped her that night and he killed her. 699 00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:22.840 And so if that's what you're thinking as a father, there's all this 700 00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:27.079 evidence that was overlooked. There wasn't even film in the camera when you were 701 00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:30.519 taking pictures of the crime scene. You never looked into their house, and 702 00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:34.719 you haven't listened to a word we've said about the way he's treated her. 703 00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:39.039 He's angry. He's angry that his daughter's body was taken advantage of. He's 704 00:50:39.079 --> 00:50:44.800 angry that she was killed and stolen from them. He's angry his grandbabies are 705 00:50:44.800 --> 00:50:46.960 still in his custody. And don't think their dad's guilty. I mean, 706 00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:52.320 he's angry about all of this. And so it is ballsy and bold and 707 00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:59.119 spicy, but wow, everyone deserves a daddy like him. Well, sadly, 708 00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:01.519 Dorothy fall And died in October of two thousand and seven at the age 709 00:51:01.559 --> 00:51:06.840 of seventy three, and another terrible tragedy would take place just over three years 710 00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:09.880 later, when Steve and Cathy's youngest daughter, Monica, passed away at the 711 00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:15.000 age of twenty seven in March of twenty eleven. Monica reportedly lived a very 712 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:20.239 troubled life following her mother's death and succumbed to a drug overdose, which some 713 00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:25.079 people have suspected was a suicide. The investigation remained quiet for several years until 714 00:51:25.079 --> 00:51:30.320 the highly acclaimed movie Three Billboards Outside Eving, Missouri, received a white theatrical 715 00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:36.400 release in November of twenty seventeen. Once media outlets started picking up on the 716 00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:40.480 fact that the movie's premise appeared to be inspired by Kathy Page's murder, interest 717 00:51:40.519 --> 00:51:45.119 in the case was rejuvenated. Fider Police Chief Rod Carroll, who had only 718 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:49.480 been in office for less than a year at this point, agreed to reopen 719 00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:53.239 the investigation, and the Texas Department of Public Safety offered a six thousand dollars 720 00:51:53.239 --> 00:51:59.280 reward for new information. Okay, that's amazing that they knew. Have some 721 00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:01.880 new blood and other department. They're saying, let's look at this case again. 722 00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:08.320 But how many years had it been since her actual murder? Sixteen sixteen 723 00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:13.199 years? Yeah, and when you ask a cold case detective to go pick 724 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:19.920 up this case file, it seems logically it's very easy to tell that Steve's 725 00:52:19.960 --> 00:52:22.760 responsible. But if I have to prove in the court of law beyond a 726 00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:29.000 reasonable doubt, they botched the investigation to a point where what evidence do you 727 00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.719 want me to prove that with? Just the semen, because it's that he 728 00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:36.760 said, she said, and she's not here to defend herself. So if 729 00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:40.320 I don't have any evidence sixteen years later, unless someone comes forward with a 730 00:52:40.360 --> 00:52:45.280 confession or some kind of evidence that they've been saving, like possibly the watch 731 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:50.440 that was handed to the private investigator, how would they do anything with that 732 00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:53.559 case at this point. In October of twenty eighteen, the case would be 733 00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:59.559 featured on an episode of the Oxygen true crime series col Justice, hosted by 734 00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:04.599 a former Harris County prosecutor, Kelly Siegler. The episode was titled The Case 735 00:53:04.639 --> 00:53:08.880 Behind the Billboards and featured Segler and her team of investigators taking a fresh look 736 00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:15.079 at the case alongside local law enforcement. The biggest new development was when they 737 00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:17.920 spoke to an eye witness who told them that during the early morning hours of 738 00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:22.920 May fourteenth, nineteen ninety one, he had been driving down Interstate ten and 739 00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:28.039 saw Steve Page, whom he knew personally, walking away from the spot where 740 00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:31.480 Kathy's car had crashed. However, the witness elected not to come forward at 741 00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:36.280 that time because he was a married man who'd been with his mistress that night 742 00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:39.239 and he did not want his family finding out about the affair. At the 743 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:44.400 end of the Cold Justice episode, Sealer and her team would submit all the 744 00:53:44.440 --> 00:53:47.920 new evidence they had uncovered, including the eyewitness statement, to the Orange County 745 00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:52.559 District Attorney's office, but they did not believe the evidence was sufficient enough to 746 00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:58.280 file charges against anyone for Kathy's murder. In June of twenty twenty one, 747 00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:02.960 Crime Stoppers of Southeast Texas raised their reward for information to fifty thousand dollars, 748 00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:08.119 which is the largest reward they've ever offered in an unsolved cold case. At 749 00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:13.639 the time of this recording, James Fulton is over ninety years old and claims 750 00:54:13.639 --> 00:54:17.199 that the billboards he's put up accusing Steve Page of his daughter's murder will remain 751 00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:22.800 there until he either dies or there's a conviction. Steve is currently living in 752 00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:27.639 the Houston area, but after more than thirty years, the murder of Kathy 753 00:54:27.719 --> 00:54:32.079 Page continues to remain unsolved. So I guess you could say the path went 754 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:37.079 chili. Okay. So when you go back to this idea that there's an 755 00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:42.000 eyewitness who comes forward and says I saw him leaving the scene of a quote 756 00:54:42.199 --> 00:54:45.719 crash this evening, but I was having an affair at the time didn't want 757 00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:49.400 to come forward and tell them that I was out with a mistress and saw 758 00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:52.440 this man. Normally i'd say, eh, you know, it's an eyewitness, 759 00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:54.920 it is what it is. But it's not. This is a friend 760 00:54:55.039 --> 00:55:00.559 or a very well known acquaintance to Steve who knows owes him. And so 761 00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:07.639 in that case, when you're talking about seeing somebody one hundred and fourteen yards 762 00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:14.920 from their house and you know that person on a personal level, and you're 763 00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:16.639 out doing something bad, so in your head you're going, oh my, 764 00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:21.280 that's odd, but I can't say anything because I'm doing something that I don't 765 00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:23.719 want anyone to know about. It really does make me think that his account 766 00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:30.119 would most likely be truthful. I believe him, and this is just a 767 00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:35.239 reminder like when you look at a situation where a lack of integrity in personal 768 00:55:35.320 --> 00:55:40.280 relationships can have serious ramifications. Because if he would have come forward at the 769 00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:45.880 time and pointed the finger at Steve Page, who's a strong likelihood that the 770 00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:51.239 Vider police would have had to have moved on a search warrant. Oh absolutely, 771 00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:52.400 like if he had done it at the time, this case might have 772 00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:57.119 been solved. But I can kind of understand the reluctance since they're only learning 773 00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:00.400 his story like seventeen years after the fact, and thinking we can't take Steve 774 00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:05.000 to trial based on his testimony because it took so long for him to come 775 00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:07.480 forward. But they did interview him on the Cold Justice episode, and even 776 00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:10.639 though he kept his identity secret, he pretty much acknowledged that, Yeah, 777 00:56:10.679 --> 00:56:15.400 my marriage ended a long time ago, so it really doesn't matter now if 778 00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:17.760 they found out I was having an affair. But yeah, you almost want 779 00:56:17.760 --> 00:56:21.000 to strangle him though, thinking that, man, if you had not kept 780 00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:22.760 quiet for so long, then this case might have been solid by now. 781 00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:27.440 So I think this would be a good time to bring an end to Part 782 00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:30.000 one. But join us next week as we present part two of our series 783 00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:35.960 about the murder of Cathy Page. Robin, do you want to tell us 784 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:38.639 a little bit about the Trail Went Cold Patreon? Yes, The Trail Cold 785 00:56:38.639 --> 00:56:44.199 Patreon has been around for three years now, and we offer these standard bonus 786 00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:49.159 features like early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers and sign 787 00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:52.599 thank you cards to anyone who signs up with us on Patreon. If you 788 00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:57.880 join our five dollars tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in 789 00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:01.199 which I talk about cases with which are not featured on the Trail Went Cold's 790 00:57:01.199 --> 00:57:06.119 original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon, and if you join our highest 791 00:57:06.119 --> 00:57:08.840 tier tier three, the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer 792 00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:15.280 is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsawved Mysteries, where you can 793 00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:20.559 download an audio file and then boot up the original Unsalved Mysteries episode on Amazon 794 00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:24.079 Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in the background, 795 00:57:24.159 --> 00:57:29.679 where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured in this episode. 796 00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:32.960 And incidentally, the very first episode that I did a commentary track over was 797 00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:37.239 the episode featuring this case. So if you want to download a commentary track 798 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:42.119 in which I make more smart ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure 799 00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:45.039 to join Tier three. So I want to let you know a little bit 800 00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:49.159 about the Jewels and nashty patreons. So there's early ad free episodes of The 801 00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:52.199 Path Went Chili. We've got our Path Went Chili mini's, which are always 802 00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:55.039 over an hour, so they're not very many, but they're just too short 803 00:57:55.079 --> 00:57:59.920 to turn into a series and we're really enjoying doing those, so we hope 804 00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:02.719 so check out those patreons will link them in the show notes. So I 805 00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:06.639 want to thank you all for listening, and any chance you have to share 806 00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:09.599 us on social media with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciate 807 00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:14.280 it. You can email us at the Pathwentchili at gmail dot com. You 808 00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:16.840 can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwink. So until next time, be 809 00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:22.079 sure to bundle up because cold trails and Chili pass call for warm clothing. 810 00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:24.440 Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy