WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:05.280 In a troubling account from Mississippi, a thirteen year old girl became pregnant after 2 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:10.679 being assaulted by a stranger. She salt an abortion, but faced immense hurdles, 3 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:16.600 with the nearest provider nine hours away, cost, travel and work issues 4 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:21.480 rendled it unfeasible. This highlights the aftermath of the U. S. Supreme 5 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:27.280 Court overturning abortion rights, with fourteen state laws betting abortion now in effect. 6 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:36.640 These restrictions disapproving disproportionately, rather impact vulnerable communities, worsening existing health disparities. 7 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:43.799 This case underscores the urgency of discussing women's rights, healthcare access, and the 8 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:50.719 broader consequences of such policies. This article is from The Guardian entitled thirteen year 9 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:55.719 old gives birth after she was raped and denied an abortion in Mississippi, written 10 00:00:55.759 --> 00:01:00.840 by Lauren Atani, and it was published on August fourteen, twenty twenty three. 11 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:06.359 I'm curious to know the thoughts of my panel and infidel. If you 12 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:10.359 don't mind, I will come to you first. Well, you three people. 13 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:15.040 They involuntarily became part of a pronal control experiment by the state of Mississippi. 14 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.519 Round of applause from Mississippi. They get to decide when you become a 15 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:23.280 parent, right, it doesn't matter for self declared pro pro life is a 16 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:26.319 story ended at the burke Clare victory and go home. Another family now on 17 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:32.319 the system to complain about because railing against medicaid snap tanneth and where those are 18 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:36.280 popular in these circles. Already these are things actually improve people's lives. But 19 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:38.239 and funding needs to be increased, but you know, they don't want to 20 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:42.719 worry about that. They just want to have their pro life stance. And 21 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:47.439 but now we have an already struggling now grandmother whose life is ten times more 22 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:51.519 different and a new mother with a whole new set of challenges in front of 23 00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:53.680 her, a child to raise while she still is a child, you know, 24 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:59.239 and the ongoing trauma what she's experienced is not something that just happened. 25 00:01:59.239 --> 00:02:01.079 And now the baby is born and moves past it. But the truth is 26 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:06.879 she'll probably do this with inadequate therapy because it probably doesn't have coverage of any 27 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.560 insurance it's going to be able to give her the treatment she needs anyway. 28 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:14.680 And of course now we're facing with an infant whose scenario is pretty much set 29 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:17.560 up failure. Like his mother, he's an increased risk for drug abuse, 30 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:22.520 incarceration, and mortality. You know, there are people who will dismiss this 31 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:24.120 and say, you know, well they you know, a tough hand. 32 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:28.400 But you know there's people that beat the odds and they can just you know, 33 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:30.039 they can do this, and you do that sometimes. I don't think 34 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:35.599 they understand what odds mean, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Nonsense sounds 35 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:38.240 great to them, but reality is very different. We're just sitting in a 36 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:42.639 situation with a with a mother who's now a grandmother, a child who's still 37 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:46.199 a child, and a child is facing a situation where the system's not designed 38 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:50.680 to help the powerless, it's only the powerful. So where this goes for 39 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:53.960 her and her family, I mean, it's an unfortunate situation. Worse than 40 00:02:54.159 --> 00:02:58.439 that, I mean, what we have now is an unfortunate situation, but 41 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:02.319 all completely avoidable. And I just can't understand what people were thinking. And 42 00:03:02.599 --> 00:03:07.759 I wanted to say, Phil, what are your thoughts on this this situation? 43 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:14.719 Well, when I read this article, it had my mind raising because 44 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:21.240 again a number of questions arose then that had me really questioning. You know, 45 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:28.000 like number one the young lady. The child was right in her backyard, 46 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:30.159 in the parents' backyard, so where were the parents? There was a 47 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:36.800 dope right then on top of that, ten to eleven weeks she was into 48 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:39.759 the pregnancy and the parents from dope. Then just because the child, the 49 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:45.840 child was going through some suffering withdrawal before that, a change in mood, 50 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:51.639 and the parents didn't even take her to the doctor or to seek some sort 51 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:55.479 of psychological help that something might be going on. But then you refer to 52 00:03:55.560 --> 00:04:01.360 the article and relaze Oka. It seems as if these are black people, 53 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:06.840 right, and where they are located is in a very poor area of this 54 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:12.280 state, so it is like, okay, if they have to pay as 55 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.879 as it was in fidel so they they didn't have the probably didn't have the 56 00:04:15.959 --> 00:04:24.040 medical insurance, right, And sometimes poverty people, sometimes poverty can do certain 57 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:29.639 things to persons where it is so hard for them that sometimes these things are 58 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:33.959 overlooked by them because the state they are in, right, And I was 59 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:39.600 like, but I was still kind of puzzled because oh, it took so 60 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:44.480 long. Then they decided to take the child to the emergency So that is 61 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.959 something that could have been done earlier. After the child was suffering, Are 62 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:53.079 you notice certain things happening that should have been done earlier, because if you 63 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:57.040 could eventually get them to the emergency room, right, they could have been 64 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:01.839 done earlier, and in one kit in some cases and wondering effort is that 65 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:06.399 the parents were neglectful. And then on the other hand, it is like 66 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:13.279 what care property stricken area? Kind of have me between the two wandering which 67 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:17.800 it is our efforts both. You know, Also it is really really kind 68 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:24.160 of confusing as to really what was going on, and especially a child in 69 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.120 the back yard. I mean, your parent was the wrong to hear what 70 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:31.439 was going on? I don't know, Glenn. Sorry, if you does, 71 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:35.879 what are your thoughts on this? Because this haunds me really buffing well. 72 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:42.600 I have to say that I think as a parent of a thirteen year 73 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:47.120 old and knowing how that plays out for her, there are situations where I 74 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:51.680 don't know what's going on. And unfortunately, I also know that people in 75 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:56.800 positions of dominance are going to do their thing, and that's going to be 76 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:00.240 dominate, and a child is going to be, as we talked about at 77 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:05.519 a point, going to be naturally obedient to that. But rather than get 78 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:09.600 too deep into that, John, I was kind of wondering what your taking. 79 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:14.160 Well, you know, thirteen year old child was raped in her backyard, 80 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:16.639 gave birth to a male child, and now for the rest of her 81 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.920 life, unless she gives it up for adoption, she's going to have to 82 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:26.040 be reminded of that rape every moment of every day. I want that to 83 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:30.759 sink into everybody. She was violated and then violated again. This is going 84 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:35.040 to be a long just like you know, there's stories like this all the 85 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:40.480 time, children giving birth to children. This is this is personal to me 86 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:43.720 as well, because when I was a dispatcher, I had a case similar 87 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.160 to this, and it's tragic on so many levels. But you know, 88 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:50.800 where do people get off, you know, blaming the victim on this? 89 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:55.639 A nurse asked the girl, what have you been doing after they found out 90 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.680 she was pregnant, automatically blaming the victim. She's thirteen years old. Give 91 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:01.879 it her, you know, try and give her some support. Imagine the 92 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:06.079 horror of that poor girl, you know wants you know, they're wanting a 93 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:11.120 drink of empathy anyone, you know, uh damn. You know. The 94 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:16.120 whole idea that a state can impose this on a child and then claim they're 95 00:07:16.120 --> 00:07:23.480 protecting children in so many other ways by accusing minority or marginalized people of doing 96 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:28.720 the very same thing has happened to this girl. I'm just beyond words of 97 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:32.839 how really, if people can't see that lie right up front, they're being 98 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:38.519 willfully blind. And that's a legal terminology maybe, but yeah, they're being 99 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:42.920 willfully blind to a crime that has happened. You know, I feel sorry 100 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:46.600 for the child that was born. Think about how he's going to grow up 101 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:50.560 and in the situation he's growing up was hard enough as it was, but 102 00:07:50.680 --> 00:07:56.120 to grow up in a family that sees him as a reminder of a violent 103 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:01.639 act, to me, that's just beyond any kind of of idea of justice. 104 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:07.639 And the people in Mississippi who don't see this ought to have it broadcast, 105 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:11.639 except for the poor girl would get too much popularity, too much publicity, 106 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:13.600 and I don't think she needs that right now, but they should have 107 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:18.120 this case, in the case of that ten year old in I think it 108 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:24.160 was what Kentucky, Ohio, Ohio who had to travel to Illinois to get 109 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:28.639 Indiana, Indiana to get an Yes, I mean, you know, this 110 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:33.960 is happening because people have their little easy answer to everything. Everything's black and 111 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:37.720 white, you know, and there's nothing that's black and white, the black 112 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.080 and white fallacy. Well, it's murdering a child, you know. I 113 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:43.759 said, well, yeah, either that or it's murdering the mother. You 114 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:48.000 know, the mother can have more kids. I mean, evolutionarily, this 115 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:50.919 makes no sense at all. But you know, it's just really doesn't make 116 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.120 sense that you would cause a child to have to go through this. She 117 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.799 has physical damage, I'm sure from giving birth that she's going to have for 118 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:03.960 the rest of her life. Those reproductive costs we used to say in biology 119 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:09.759 are immense when they're the child. Is when it's the person who's giving birth 120 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:13.600 is too young, there's just immense damage to their bones, to their organ 121 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:18.039 structures, to their all their internal organs who get pushed around in a small 122 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:24.919 body and crammed into a very small space. That damage later on will cause 123 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.519 complication. Maybe not right away, but as she grows, it's going to 124 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.759 cause complications. I would bet. No. I'm not a doctor and I'm 125 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.720 not a lawyer, but I know that this is going to be a living 126 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.799 nightmare for her for most of her life. All for a silly little propaganda 127 00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:45.279 point so that a political party can main attain itself in power. I'm just 128 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:50.200 I'm beyond words from anything further than what I've just said these people, I 129 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:56.679 just can't go there. So Cynthia, yeah, I first one to disant 130 00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:03.279 remind our audience that if you have some time and want to hear some experts 131 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:09.720 opinions about this articular subject, specifically about the dob's case that we're talking about, 132 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:16.559 and also abortion and how it affects people who have also been assaulted. 133 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:22.200 We did a show, believe it was, with a panelful of doctors and 134 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:31.879 meat that was actually talking about this particular subject and the repercussions that can come 135 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:37.759 from it. And I knew when the Doves decision came out that stories like 136 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:41.799 this will be an abundance. As you mentioned, Jonathan, we actually covered 137 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:48.840 the ten year old girl who was raped by her mother's boyfriend and and who 138 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.200 was able to get to Indiana, but it was only a state over the 139 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:58.639 nearest place when we are specifically talked about. The nine hour drive was from 140 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:03.440 where or the woman where the young lady is at in Mississippi all the way 141 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:09.879 to my city, Chicago, that is the nearest place where one could get 142 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:15.879 an abortion. And we are no longer in the Great Migration time any longer. 143 00:11:16.039 --> 00:11:18.039 So, you know, people being able just to come up here in 144 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.679 abundance, especially without the funds, can't do it. And we know that 145 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.720 this was specifically the issue with the mother of the thirteen year old. I 146 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:35.320 believe that they called her in the article. They gave her a pseudonym and 147 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:39.759 a pseudonym. I know that they called the young girl Ashley. Does anybody 148 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:43.919 remember the pseudonym that they gave them the now grandmother Virginia. Yeah, thank 149 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.080 you. Yeah. So she didn't have the money to come to Chicago, 150 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:56.600 to to travel over nine hours with a pregnant young child to have an abortion, 151 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:00.759 and then pay for an abortion. And I'm pretty and now there are 152 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:05.200 resources available, there are different funds that are out now, but if you 153 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:09.480 don't have the wherewithal to know how to get those resources, you're kind of 154 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:15.039 stuck. And I'm pretty sure that this was an issue specifically with this mother 155 00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:18.799 who finds out about her daughter being sexually assaulted and seeing about trying to get 156 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:28.360 her an abortion. And I also read that Mississippi specifically has only granted about 157 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.559 two abortions since the Job's case came out when it came to rape. Even 158 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:39.879 though it says in their trigger law that rate is and rape and incest is 159 00:12:39.919 --> 00:12:45.200 an exception for people to be able to get an abortion. But when you 160 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:50.000 had, like the Jackson clinic closed because of the Job's decision, I believe 161 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:52.759 there was another clinic that closed. Where are these people going to go? 162 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.519 Even if you say, okay, we grant it because the victim, this 163 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:01.799 person was victimized, it was without consent, and she's a child, so 164 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:05.679 she this is incest and also rate, point blank period. Where is she 165 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:11.600 to go because the providers are no longer in that state in order to provide 166 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:18.679 a healthcare service that was desperately needed. And also another thing I wanted to 167 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:24.600 mention as an antidote, I got into a social media debate with a former 168 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:31.399 friend of mine and fascist on former who told me this right wing talking point 169 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:39.000 that is full of junk that only one percent of rapes end up in pregnancy. 170 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:43.320 I'm here to tell you people on the panel that that is a fucking 171 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:48.200 lie. These are the facts, and this is according to the Washington Post. 172 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:50.480 And I don't care how you all feel that Jeff Bezos actually owns the 173 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:56.759 Washington Post. He didn't write the article now because of violence and stigma associated 174 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:01.480 with rape, as well as different definition, there are a wide range of 175 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:07.440 statistics concerning rate. The CDC, for instance, estimates that nearly one point 176 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:13.440 three million American women were victims of rape or attempted rate in two thousand and 177 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:18.279 ten, about half were actual rates. But the r ai NN, the 178 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.679 Rape Abuse and Incests National Networks, set about sixty four thousand women were raped 179 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:26.600 between two thousand and five to two thousand and two thousand and four to two 180 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:31.879 thousand five, rather citing a Justice Department data. Now, the number of 181 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:37.840 rates will make a huge difference in the number of rates that result in pregnancy. 182 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:45.000 Now, the most widely cited study of this question embedded was and we're 183 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:48.360 going to have the study below in the show notes was actually published in nineteen 184 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:56.799 ninety six by the American Journal of Obstetricians in Gynecology and when determined a national 185 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:03.840 rape related pregnancy rate of five per scent are more per rape among victims were 186 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:07.840 between the ages of twelve to forty five. In between the ages of this 187 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.799 young girl and a study was based on a survey of four thousand and eight 188 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:16.200 adult women and over three of an over three year period, which covered a 189 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.840 range of questions on drug and alcohol abuse, but also included questions intended to 190 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:28.000 draw out more information on sexual sexual assaults. But regardless if the one percent 191 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:33.679 stat were true, which it isn't, pregnancy can and thus happened to rape 192 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.960 victims. In this case, it happened to a child, and even the 193 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.919 article states in Mississippi technically made exceptions for when pregnancy is from rape boards and 194 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:50.399 light threatening, but abortions granted under these exceptions are extremely rare and poorly tracked, 195 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:54.279 And in January, the New York Times reported that Mississippi made two exceptions 196 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:56.840 like I mentioned before, since the state abortion ban went into effect, and 197 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:03.519 the state requires that a ra be reported to law enforcement in order for it 198 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:08.399 to actually qualify for legal abortion. But we already and I could go into 199 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.320 statistics, but we don't have time for that. Of how many times that 200 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:19.039 people are actually sexually assaulted versus reporting to law enforcement because of stigma, because 201 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:23.039 of nurses telling a thirteen year old young girl, what have you been doing? 202 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:26.639 Why don't you ask the person who assault to her what he was doing. 203 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.960 You know, I get so sick and tired, and I'm sorry, 204 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:33.799 guys, you're just gonna have to deal with my soapbox right now. I 205 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:41.679 get so sick and tired of women being blamed for the violence that happens as 206 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.320 a result of sexual assault. And I'm not saying that six gender men can't 207 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.159 be assaulted. Yes they can, and children can be assaulted. Everybody can 208 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:53.159 be assaulted. But data already shows that this gender, women or people who 209 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:59.879 identify as women, are more on the actual spectrum of being sexually assaulted than 210 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:04.000 any other group of people. And one of the highest groups racially of women 211 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.720 to be sexually assaulted are black women. And I'm not even going to mention, 212 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:12.160 which I'm about to mention now that four times are likely. Black women 213 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.920 are four times more likely to die from pregnancy related complications compared to white women, 214 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:21.440 according to the state's Health Department. According to Mississippi, and according to 215 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:25.920 the gut Mocker Institute, sixty percent of women who seek abortions are women of 216 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:30.720 color, and about half lived below the federal poverty line. So this is 217 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:34.400 all the things that are coming against this young child who's about to raise a 218 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:38.079 child who doesn't have the money to actually raise a child, who now the 219 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:42.680 grandmother is now raising her child plus another child, and who didn't even have 220 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:47.880 enough money to take her child to Chicago so that the child will no longer 221 00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:51.880 have a child. It's gross and I'm so sick and tired of hearing this 222 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:56.799 over and over again, especially people who are being victimized when it comes to 223 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:02.599 not only a person who just randomly disides to actually throw violence upon them, 224 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:04.759 but upon the state that they're actually living in. I'm done with my rant 225 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:07.319 and i just giving me a moment, but I'm giving you a moment, 226 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.759 dear viewer that If you want to hear more from the nonprofit, click here.