We're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Drashinsky,
culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show
at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on ex at fdr LST,
make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course to
the premium version of our website, The Federalist dot Com as well. We
are here to discuss the verdict in Donald Trump's case in Manhattan, the case
that was brought by Alvin Bragg. As you probably now know, Donald Trump
was found guilty on all counts by a jury and Manhattan. We talked actually
earlier today as I'm coming to you with my colleague Washington Correspondent, DC correspondent
at The Federalist, Eddie Scarry. Chris and I talked earlier today on this
very show about the likelihood of this guilty verdict. That prediction turned out to
be the right one held up unfortunately, because I don't think this is good
for the country overall. But Eddie, let me just get your immediate reaction
before we dive into all of the different details that I'm excited to break down
with you, because actually there's some interesting potential outcomes as we're learning more and
more about what's set to happen. He is going to be sentenced on July
eleventh, that is four days because before the Republican National Convention kicks off in
Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It's that juxtaposition, I think, in and of itself
is a horror show for Democrats. But Eddie, how are you reacting so
far? Well, it's exactly like you just said that, this is really
just depressing for the country. I don't. I don't even look at this
in terms of like hardness in politics or what we think of and left and
right and conservative, liberal, Republican Democrat. I really don't. And I
don't know if that would be hard to believe, just because you know so
often that's that's what that's what we have to deal with. That's just the
dynamic that that our system is kind of built to, you know, and
how we reflect on things in our system. But the second I heard about
the verdict that just came out on this Trump trial, at that man,
that is depressing for this country and embarrassing really, And when I say embarrassing,
I mean imagine looking looking from the outside, you're in some other countries
somewhere else, and you're looking, You're like, that's that's America. I
didn't know they did that kind of thing there. It's just really depressing.
And I mean there were actually I was, I'm in a group chat with
two different friends of mine and you know, they're not super they're not hyper
hyper informed or you know, engaged with politics, but they know enough,
probably a little bit more than the average. And one of them thought,
well, one of them asked, you know, so what does this mean?
And the other one said, Eddie's going to say it doesn't mean anything.
And I said no, I said, I mean I think that probably
what you know, Trump, maybe he'll get some kind of fine or something,
but he's going to appeal it anyway. It's gonna just it's good.
There's gonna there's a lengthy appeal process that's going to move forward. But it's
not true that this means nothing. This is really devastating for what we know
as the rule of law in this country, the judicial system in this country.
And it makes it reminds me of when back in back after Trump one
in twenty sixteen, and you know, the whole thing was the whole locker
up, locker up. And then, of course, of course, right
after he won election, he tells the New York Times editorial board like,
I'm not going to do anything with the Clintons. I don't want to hurt
them. I think let's bring the country together. And I remember talking actually
to my dad, I don't know if it was within within the year right
after when and one of his friends, and they asked about that. They
said, why didn't he ever do anything? And I said, I,
well, did anybody think he was serious about the whole locker up thing?
And they said I thought he was. And I said, you can't.
Why did you think that was serious? And what does it look like for
America to turn around and lock up, throw in prison, or even just
criminally prosecute in any way our nation's top diplomat. What would that look like
to everybody else? Well, now we know what it looks like when you
criminally prosecute a former president. Thank you, Democrats, thank you for showing
us what that looks like in the world. I want to read some reactions
just that I've seen and have found interesting on Twitter so far, because Paul
Sperry at Real Clear tweets Sorry, to dash Trump hater's quote orange jumpsuit fantasies.
But Trump won't be taken into custody or go to rikers. Even if
he's slapped with a prison term. He'll be free on bail pending appeal.
Sentencing won't be enforced until all New York appeals are exhausted well past the election.
Now, Eddie Chris on an earlier podcast that we taped today, because
you and I are literally taping this less than an hour after the verdict was
rendered. Thirty four counts, by the way, all guilty, zero non
all guilty. You know, no hung jury, there was no nothing.
There was no count that wasn't a guilty count. And Chris was mentioning earlier
today that you know, this is what's happening is so already norm breaking because
of all of the legal maneuvering that happened. You know, MSNBC calling this
quote from Bragg a novel legal theory. That's something we've seen echoed even by
people like liberals writing in the New York Times, and that you know the
reason all of these cases were pursued, as Chris and I talked about earlier
today, is that they were throwing everything at the wall to see what would
stick before the election. So you know, you bring everything and you try
to get something to stick before the election. So Paul Sperry, I think
makes a reasonable and interesting observation based on what we know about how the criminal
justice system works, is supposed to work, normally works. I guess I
just feel like they may have plenty of tricks up their sleeve. I'm not
a lawyer, but I just don't trust that, you know, they're not
so thirsty to put Trump and Rikers before the election that they don't just pull
the plug or pull the trigger. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't doubt
it, especially with this judge and the way this judge was just trying to
like flex over and over again. But you know, there weren't any cameras
in the court, so we were just relying on you know, like cringe
reports as if this is like nineteen thirty or something like no audio recording,
no videos, so just we're just relying on what people who were in the
room and the notes they took. But this judge that he kept saying things
like I will put you in jail. I don't want to have to do
it, but I will do it. Okay, that's we're not supposed to
be here to begin with. This is not where this country is supposed to
be. We're not supposed to be at the point where it goes to the
Supreme Court about whether the president, in his capacity in office, you know,
whether he can be criminally charged for the things he does, which,
again I guess we have to say this where there's no victim. There's nobody
who died, there's nobody who was bankrupted, there's nobody who suffered some severe
injury. And yet we you know, these the people who are kind of
facilitating this process keep escalating it over and over again. And I mean I
will obviously it's Donald Trump, who is someone who is not afraid to test
the limits. But when you when you put a former president in that position,
I mean, what what what else left does he have? You're leaving?
And not only that, not only is he a former president, you
always have to remember he's running for president again. He's running for president again,
and he is at this moment, he is likely to win. That
is what I believe he's likely to win. That's what the numbers saying.
We have nothing else to go on other than the numbers. Okay, so
this is not a situation that anyone in history had ever anticipated. I don't
think our framers, I think all the every indication is that our framers thought,
this is not you know, there's nothing even to worry about. They're
never going to that's never going to be a scenario that we need to write
in the constitution or specifically spell out or write, you know, documents.
If I'm wrong with someone, please out there correct me on that. But
you know, I think just having these having a judge like this and so
many others, these das, these elected democrats, they to your point,
they do seem willing to just how far can we go with this? And
I think, you know, the idea to give them, I guess the
benefit of the doubt. It's, well, nobody is above the law,
but we're talking about a very very different situation. Where is this the law?
Because these are completely new you just touched on this completely new legal theories,
theories about what is actual criminal conduct, things that have never been tested
before in court. So what does it mean to be about the law when
we don't even know that this is the law. Very very strange and very
dangerous. Yeah, I mean I think the question for the left right now,
because you're really most people, I'm sure believe that Donald Trump is guilty
of not this particular crime, but in a general sense, the moral crime
of likely having had an affair, likely having had sex with Stormy Daniels while
Milannia Trump was pregnant, and this was all it was supposed to have happened
in Lake Tahoe. I don't think it's as outrageous as then Egen Carroll story.
I actually think it's pretty reasonable. I actually don't know though. Yeah,
it should be clear. I have no idea so it actually happened,
but I think it's more likely than not this happened. And still that's very
different than what's happening in court. So I think the question for the left
and the center right now is is it worth convicting the former president and now
the presidential the presumptive presidential nominee on thirty four felony counts with a quote novel
legal theory, while an establishment member an elite member of the other political party,
whether it's Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton, the last two major party nominees,
both of whom either from themselves or their immediate families could very easily have
also had similar situations where there's legal stuff being thrown at the wall to see
what sticks. Is it worth it? Was it worth convicting Donald Trump thirty
four felon accounts while not doing this to his opponent. I mean, I
told Chris today, I'm all for a rule of law and finding ways to
lock up white collar criminals. But there's a very fine line between rule of
law and Banana Republic, and that I think what we're on right now is
this is very obviously tells us we're on one wrong side of that line,
and things can get much much worse. You know, there's a spectrum on
the other side of that line. You know, you could be hopefully we're
still you know, within a distance of the line that we can return to
a country that really does have a norm of the rule of law with some
of our most high profile partisan figures. But you know, you never know
when you hit the point of no return. You know, there's no sign
that says point of no return right here. And my prediction going forward is
just you see an escalation in uh you know, it feels like Brazil.
You know, an escalation in these types of lawfair tactics and escalation and sort
of rolling political violence. Thankfully, as we're recording this ed either have not
been violent reactions so far to the verdict. There are more cases, there's
more legal appeals to happen. In this particular case and in all the other
cases. There's an election coming out, the conventions are coming out, but
the Democrats are back in Chicago with all of these parallels, and Kennedy is
running for president and all these parallels in nineteen sixty eight. So that's my
prediction. I'm not saying it's going to come true, but I really do
think the central question for the left right now is was this decision or was
this verdict worth it? And I don't even know, Eddie, I think,
I mean, obviously I know the answer to that question on from my
own opinion, But what I was going to say is, I don't even
know if people realize, even educated people realize exactly how insane this trial was.
Actually. Andy McCarthy not a pro Trump person by any stretch of the
imagination. He writes that National Review, He's a Fox contributor, I think,
had a great piece of National Review this morning explaining exactly how Mershan,
the judge whose daughter I think he donated to Biden, whose daughter is a
major dem consultant whose clients have included people like Adam Schiff and Dan Coldman.
It's just outrageous. Just optically, it's a confident, it's a conflict of
interest and likely in substance as well, because you can't get that stuff out
of your head. So you know, all of the different things that were
allowed to happen in this trial, the statute of limitations being overcome because of
COVID. Then you have the uh, the crime being turned not the crime,
but the the allegation being turned into a felony because it was in furtherance
of allegedly a campaign finance violation, but he wasn't technically charged with that.
I mean, it's just was it worth it? I mean, if people
don't ask themselves that question, they don't even know what questions to ask.
I guess, yeah. And before I get to that, I will say
that you said you said there hasn't been any violence yet. That is I
guess that's true at this very moment. But what there have been has been
the threat of violence. And this is something that I've been trying to stress
just in casual conversations with people. The threat of violence is what a criminal
prosecution is at its heart. Really, this is a threat of violence against
Donald Trump because it's you need to show up. You need to show up
for court. If you don't show up for court, we're going to arrestue
and throw you in jail. If you resist in some way, we are
very much legally authorized to shoot you. So this has always been under the
threat of violence from the beginning. And I mean, we can go back
to twenty twenty with the hostage situation that the Left had this entire nation under
which was we are going to burn down your city. We are going to
burn down the capitol if we don't get it the way we want. You
live in Washington, DC, just like I did at the time, and
you saw all like right ahead of the election, all the storefronts boarded up
once again. They had just come down after that summer of fire to the
peaceful protests. They had just come down summer of love, and then they
went right back up again. And that was not in anticipation of a Trump
or rather of a Biden victory. That was in anticipating a Trump victory and
what the left was going to do in Washington, DC. That's why they
put up those boards. So this is the threat of violence has been lingering
for a very very long time, always from the left. And then to
answer your question more directly about was it worth it? Yes, I this
this is a question that I would think that people just kind of ask throughout
their everyday lives, but certainly in politics and certainly on this exact topic.
Put in another way, is the juice worth the squeeze? And that's kind
of what should have been, you know, at the forefront of everyone's mind,
like, well, am I really willing am I really willing to risk,
you know, to where it gets to the point where you know,
whoever's in power just throws their enemies in prison or even just for fun,
starts targeting them with criminal prostecutions, investigations. You know, for all the
talk that you get and that we've had now for multiple years from Democrats about
the norms and our you know, our institutions and just like you know,
the way things the way we do business are traditions, they certainly don't care
about any of that stuff when it anymore at all, I guess when it
comes to getting Trump and everything he represents, and and and snuffing out the
last best hope of you know who, his supporters believe in that they have
determined that we are willing to throw all that away, to hell with the
norms, the guard rail, rails of democracy. If we can just put
this guy away, if we can get rid of him, it will all
have been worth it. And I just find that I find that a really
weird calculation because you're testing people who I mean, you know, there's a
lot of different thoughts about this and and everything, but you're testing people and
you saw I think you saw a very very tame version of people, those
people who are tested on January sixth, that was a very very tame version.
Do you really want to continue down that path? Because if you're saying
that the juice is worth the squeeze, you that it is worth it.
It's not as if this is a reality reality show where this season is over
come back in a few months. Maybe there's another word, maybe the show
altogether is over. There are long, long, long lasting consequences for this
type of stuff. And you know, the point you made about escalation is,
of course sure, and it's and it's again, it's always Democrats to
do it. The most notable one for you Trump was the elimination of the
filibustero her cabinet appointees. Okay, so then Republicans come back and say,
well, we're going to do it for judicial appointees, you know. And
then and then Democrats and I say, well, we're going to impeach you
over over a foreign policy disagreement. You know. So what's well, I
would say, what's the safer a Republicans not doing not doing the same thing
back? But actually we saw what happened. Republicans couldn't get couldn't even you
know, land that one. But no, I think to answer your question,
they totally believe it's been worth it, right. I mean, I
guess I should have even said, like the I definitely know I agree with
you completely that they think it's worth it. I think they may actually some
of them may break away when they see the fruit that it bears in the
months to come. But I don't think most of them. Well, what
I think, or who I think should be asking that question is like regular
normy Americans center right, you know. Larry Hogan posted a statement He's probably
a good barometer saying, you know, just respect the rule of law or
something like that, where it's like, or respect the respect the ruling.
It was a jury blah blah blah. Well, if the jury isn't guided
properly by the judge, because the judge is allowed to be an open partisan
who don't to the candidate whose daughter is making money on the people who are
fueling this, and that's all just allowed to happen, and he's allowed to
misguide the trial and allow things to be novel in ways that they shouldn't be,
then you know, the jury process is obviously not going to be a
perfect beautiful reflection of our legal system. So I think that question for me,
really, what I worry is that there are people in the center,
maybe center right, maybe center left, that if they sort of tore off
the layers, they peeled back the layers of this, you know, legal
onion to realize exactly what had happened, they would be really disturbed. But
I don't know that they even know to do that because the media has been
totally complicit. The media has been totally parroting the story of the partisan prosecutors.
I mean, Bragg ran on a get Trump platform basically, and the
media has largely allowed him to get away with all of this with a couple
and Eddie. You cover media, you study the media really closely. There
have been a couple of skeptical op eds in the New York Times, you
know, from elite left lawyers. There has been some stuff that's been dissenting
and it's like, I don't know about this case for the most part,
though, that has not leaked into the broader coverage. What do you make
of that? Actually, this is a great question for you. I mean,
I don't think there's been much dissent in the media coverage at all.
No, I don't think so as far as the media goes. No,
I mean everything everything I read treats this as if like even even even on
the right, even the Washington creatures, who I say, the right,
I mean you should put that in quotes. They're not they're not really uh
yeah, well you know they're Washington Republicans. What they are? Like,
what's your name? I'd hate to say this if your friends are something,
but like Sarah Laurz, I think who used to work for, not briefly
for Jeff Sessions, she works for she works for CNN now doesn't she or
maybe the Lincoln Magic one of those guys. I knew that there was like
this brief period. I sometimes lump them all. There's this there's this particular
like attractive brunette like rch type on the right who just somehow they all seem
to think the same things and have the same career trajectory in the area,
in the Washington area. And she's one of them. But she, you
know, she've had this tweet recently about you know, remember there was those
documents that came out showing how I guess it was the arrest warrant for Trump
or something that was that showed that the FBI was authorized to use force necessary
and right, and she tweets, this is completely normal, this is standard
protocol. It's like, these are not standard you know, scenarios, These
are not things. And you know, but I think that the idea right
now is to make it seem to normalize it. And that's just so that
I hate this. This is like such a cliche now, but it's like
you're you're once again, you're bringing us to a point where we can't ever
go back. We can't ever go back because there's going to be a response
to this. We're already seeing it. We're seeing people people who generally don't
speak out on this stuff, who've shown very little interests or maybe even an
aversion to politics, and they're speaking out and just saying, like, you
know, this is not you know, I think you're going you're going too
far with this. And I think when they say that, what they're trying
to get across, because these are people who don't have a long history of
living and breathing this politics stuff like you and I do, and being engaged
in the fight. What I think they're trying to say is I'm not okay
with this, like and I don't think there's anything you can and you know,
my instincts tell me that you're taking this down the wrong path, and
unfortunately it's coming a little bit too late. But I do think that you
know, as far as like you know, the nor means the people who
aren't who aren't so engaged with people who you know, the non billionaire,
just the average middle incomes, the working class people. My hope, really,
and I just say this for practical reasons, is that they look at
this and say, all right, you know what I am out, I
am you know, I hadn't made up my mind about the election, but
you know I voted for Biden in twenty twenty. I'm done. I'm not
participating in this anymore. And I say that only because that is effectively about
for Donald Trump. Well, yeah, let's go through some of those reactions.
I think that's really relevant. My prediction that I said to Chris earlier
today, before we even knew the jury was going to reach a verdict,
was basically, I don't think the Democrats understand how much this disrupts and pokesholes
in their attempt to run on a platform of normalcy, decency, civility,
and democracy. I mean, people, to the point you just made,
people are so exasperated and fatigued by the constant cycle of chaos that now the
image of the former president and the major party presumptive nominee being subjected to a
trial that ends up with him guilty on all of these different counts. Plenty
of people, will, you know, read about the different partisan leanings of
it, and you know, they might be of two minds and might be
like, ah, you know, he did something wrong. He probably falsified
documents. But you know, I don't the Judge's daughter worked for or making
money from Democrats, and blah blah blah. It's just exhausting, it's chaotic.
It doesn't feel like the decent democratic thing to do. In fact,
this is a country that looks back on Gerald Ford pardoning Nixon as such a
sort of a noble thing, and people were pretty unhappy about it at the
time, and you know, I have my own thoughts on that, but
it just people are going to see this as chaotic and as an example,
I mentioned Larry Hogan's reaction, but looks like a justin amash. It's just
a bitter opponent of Donald Trump, libertarian former republic congressman. Set aside the
politics he posted. Today's verdict is an affront to the rule of law and
a perversion of justice. Bragg weaponized the legal system to indict Trump on charges
that never would have been brought against anyone else. The selective and abusive prosecution
will further undermine confidence in our constitution and divide America. It must not stand.
Tucker Carlson says, import the third world become the third World. That's
what we just saw. This won't stop Trump. He'll win the election if
he's not killed first, but it does mark the end of the fairest justice
system in the world. Anyone who defends this verdict is a danger to you
and your family. I actually don't understand the third world part of that argument,
to be honest. I feel like we've just all become not because of
like immigration, but because of just like pure Western decadence. Darryl Cooper said,
anyone who tells you it's time to quote do something right now is a
fed. The only thing you should do is wait for him to walk away,
then kick him in the balls from behind as hard as you can.
I mean, if that person is your enemy, he is trying to hurt
you. That gets to the violence issue we talked about earlier, and as
Stepman tweeted, we now live in a country where the loser of the next
election is going to jail. That basically encapsulates my thoughts. Michael Tracy from
the left. Even if the convictions are overturned on appeal, highly likely the
genie is out of the bottle. There's every reason to think tit for tat
prosecutorial fishing expeditions will now become the norm in US presidential politics. Let's do
one more here from Ron DeSantis. Today's verdict represents the culmination of a legal
process that has been bent to the political will of the actors. Involved a
leftist prosecutor, a partisan judge, and a jury reflective of one of the
most liberal enclaves in America, all in an effort to quote get Donald Trump.
Desanta's posted a pretty long statement here, and then Bill Ackman, formerly
a man of the left to the point where he had actually endorsed Claudine Gay
for her as the president of Harvard, he quote tweeted Ron de Santas and
said, I think any objective person and would have to agree with Governor Ron
DeSantis here. Ackman is now an active Trump supporter. Jake Sherman tweeted that
Republican sources are telling him when read their donation platform is exploding. I saw
that Walsh tweet that he's now going to Democrat, going to donate to the
Trump campaign. Eddie, I know that I just took a probably non representative
slice. This is the Twitter Rody, the sort of broadly anti establishment,
not just right of center, but I would say anti establishment, you know
pundits on on X but I don't know. I mean those are people who
whose reactions matter to how the public is going to take their cues. Yeah,
and they have massive followings. I think that, you know, people
are listening. You know, I'm not so hopeful as to be like,
you know, people are waking up and they understand. I really do think
that things have been so cheapened with our politics, which is which is really
unfortunate, and it's not you know, some people will go, well,
what it's because Donald Trump and he made everything a show. No, he
was. He he had an entertaining quality quality to him, of course,
but the reaction to him was so from from Washington, from the media that
it was the media, the entertainment industry, the academia. It was so
visceral and ugly. And you know, I always talk about that. I'll
always talk about it that I think about this a lot back when, back
when he initially was running and he gave his speech and I thought, that's
kind of silly. And it wasn't until I saw the way when what when
the thing that people that when I say people, I mean the media what
they found so controversial, which which was mostly I think the first one was
the Mexican rapists and the you know, the murders of crimes, the drugs,
the drugs coming across the border. When they when they found controversy in
that was when I was like, that's that's why I thought it was.
I thought you just didn't like him because he was kind of silly, and
he does. He's done this for multiple times because you know, he's pretended
he was going to run for president and now it looks like he's probably faking
it again. But no, it was actually the issue. The issue was
what they took exception with and I was like, but no, that's true
though, And just seeing the reaction that that has been, uh what what
so? And I say this with absolute pride, has absolutely radicalized me.
But I think that that has been I think that's been the trajectory for a
lot of people. Is they're just looking at things, including the people that
you're talking about, including all their followers, and just saying like this is
this was This wasn't where I thought we were heading. I thought when we
when we elected Joe Biden, that this was okay, things get to be
quiet now. No, we saw the exact opposite. And actually, when
I wrote my book, this was heading into the twenty twenty election, which
is called grow up and grow, grow up and vote for Trump? Was
it growing? Was it growing voper Trump? Why the twenty twenty election is
or last chance of being an adult something like that. And it was just
all about how you know, you think you really do think that this is
going to calm down after this. No, the empire is going to strike
back, strike back with absolute vengeance here, and it's exactly what we've seen.
I think people didn't anticipate it. You can't blame them for it.
You know, when people when you have a wall of noise, and when
I say the wall of noise, you have all the entertainment industry, all
of academia, all of the media coming at you and telling you all of
this is going to stop. All of this hysteria will stop if we get
rid of this one guy and people. I think they bought it and then
they did it, and then now look where we are. So that's why
I think you have so many people who I mean, I think you're right
that it's not these are just these are Twitter people, these are the hyper
engaged, but they have massive audiences and I think that it does count for
something. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, even if you know CNN is still
going to CNN or whatever. Actually, Alvin Bragg, I think our colleagues
are saying, even as we're talking right now, that Alvin Bragg is giving
remarks, so monitor that. But I wanted to tell a bit of an
anecdote. I feel like I actually should have opened with this because it was
really a poignant moment before we knew that there was a verdict. And actually
Kyle Cheney, who I think is at Politico or the New York Times,
had posted around four thirty pm that there was no verdict that the jurors were
going home, which was it had everyone sort of take a deep sigh of
relief. But you know, I was at I was at a bar and
a meeting with a source, and as we were at the bar on Capitol
Hill because they're in recess right now, so you can do a lot of
meetings at like four pm, which I was wondering whys. Yes, I'm
just absolutely hammered at a pacificum, which I hadn't had in years and was
lovely. But not to undermine my point here, which was going to be
that business was per seating a pace and this is the particular bar was that
was on Capitol Hill, literally steps from the Capitol, popular with House staffers,
and I mean it's basically exclusively how staffers, lobbyist, journalists, and
the TV. As soon as we knew that the verdict was going to come
out, the TV was briefly turned to I think Fox or CNN, and
everyone sort of watched it for about a minute, and then they legitimately put
on women's softball again, I'm not making that up, Like they turned it
onto the news for a minute and then went back to women's softball. There
was no reaction, you know, there was no horror, there was no
gale. It was just sort of business as usual. And in fact,
the source pointed out for me, I started turned and looked behind me that
some members of the Speaker's staff. So Speaker Johnson's staff walked into the bar,
totally nonplussed as all of this was happening, just again going about their
business, not horror, not reacting, not glued to their phones. You
know, a lot of officers had their statements ready to go, so all
they had to do was sort of click post. But it was just the
strangest thing, like this was such a precedent setting situation on the news and
even in a Capitol Hill bar. It was on for ten seconds or thirty
seconds or a minute, and then they went back to women's softball. The
speaker, the Republican Speaker, you have members of his staff walking in with
just plain looks on their faces, again, just business as usual. It
was just very It was very I mean, it's a beautiful day here in
DC right now. It was a ten out of ten, rated a ten
out of ten by Capitol Weather Gang, which is rare. You couldn't get
a better day, you know, It's like seventy degrees beautiful, sey not
humid, and everyone's just going about their business. When you have this huge
precedent shattering moment transpiring in New York. It's just to see the speakers,
part of the speaker's team walk in. According to the source, was just
a very yeah. I think people are just generally anord to it, anord
to it, and not just Washington. But I guess someone a somewhat different
point I wanted to make, and I actually wanted to make it my previous
responses to something you asked, But this is kind of why it's important,
I would say, not kind of. This is very much why it's important
for Republicans their voters who are putting them in office and say, okay,
we need you to write this ship. And a big part of writing that
does mean taking like giving a punch to the other side and what like.
I'll just give you example. What I was a proponent, and I say
this in all sincerity, was when Republicans take back the House, file articles
of impeachment, call them the impeachment just for kicks, the impeachment of Joe
Biden, just for kicks, because you're The point is to show you know,
we can do this too, and if you're gonna make this process so
stupid, we can just show you how stupid it gets. Okay, the
next time, next owner is of like, when Joe Biden gets out office,
assuming he's still you know, around and alive, find some Republican attorney
general, throw it, throw some charges at him, just throw him through
the wringer, just like you did with it. Because because we can do
it too. And why is that important. It's not just important so we
can have an endless back and forth. It's just to show you this can
happen to you. This is this is where you've brought us. You know,
you've made it stupid. You've actually made this stupid. You've trivialized the
process that we have that it's supposed to be for very very serious things.
That's and we have these understandings, agreements, we we we we should actually
look at each other and think we're acting in honesty with each other. I'm
going to assume the best in you. Maybe maybe I didn't get my way,
but the voters chows otherwise. Maybe better luck to me next time.
But instead, you know, you have Democrats who just say, you know,
we're not playing games here. In Republicans, you got too many Republicans
like the Mike Johnson people, like some others like I don't want to name
them, but you know the Republicans who say, you know, we don't
want to be as bad as they are, We don't want to make this
a tit for tat every time. Well, no, that's important. You
actually do need to do that. Not for the sake of making you know,
rubbing my sores, because you know you came after me. It's not
for that purpose. It's just to show you this can happen, This can
happen to you just the same we can show you just how bad this gets,
we can show you how cheap everything can get. Where it's up to
both sides. It can't just be up to one side who upholds, you
know, the dignity of the process, the sanctity of democracy. Trump is
going to have a press conference tomorrow. So again we're taping this on Thursday
evening, within an hour of the verdict coming out. But we now know
Trump is going to do a press conference tomorrow, so some of you may
be listening to this as the press conference is imminent or has already happened.
Eddie. The reason I found that anecdote to be poigned, I was thinking
as you were talking, actually made me think about this that if you are
an average Republican voter, and just to put my own biases on the table,
I've seen a lot of people reacting, you know, con Carol,
who are really like tweeted. You know, I wouldn't have I think he
said something like I wasn't a big fan of Trump, but now I would
crawl over broken glass to vote for him. I don't find this, and
maybe some of my colleagues will laugh at me for this. It's not like
the most animating thing to me. I just I think it's insane and outrageous,
but it's not for me. I just there are so many different things.
I feel like it's part of something that's insane and outrageous. It is
a big animating issue. But for most Republican voters, this is animating because
it feels like it could happen to them. And so to see that in
Washington, d C. You have people who are supposed to be the tip
of the spear that are supposed to be working on behalf of the Speaker of
the House of the United States representatives, representatives where the people who represent the
rest of their district, other people, the American people that their constituents,
this Mike Johnson is from Louisiana, that his staff is as this president shattering
verdict is being read. You know, I don't know what they could do
about it, but you'd think that there would be fury and anger beyond slinking
into a bar steps from the Capitol like it's any other Thursday in recess.
And I just was thinking about that juxtaposition in my own head as you were
talking. I was like, as the sort of person before I knew how
Washington worked, that was just an average American in Wisconsin. That is the
kind of thing that I would find maddening. Yeah, no, I agree
with you. I think our boss Molly Hemingway has been writing, has been
doing, has been tweeting like crazy about this, rightfully, So just like,
what are what is the Republican leadership doing today about any of this?
What? Like? You know, I think even even the people who showed
up on behalf of Trump at one of those press conferences, like one of
them was Vivid Brahmaswami, who's not elected, he's not he's never served in
any official capacity, and yet you know, and I appreciate him being there.
He's such an articulate guy and like and was like a total star during
their primaries and also he continues to be with his podcast and other things.
But you know, where where is Like I think Mike Johnson did show up,
But why is this not a day in and day out thing and everything
that should But you know, tomorrow, if if Ukraine needs money, we
will have another robust weekend. We'll have another robust weekend of foreign policy packages.
It's just the priorities of Republicans is so screwed up, and I don't
maybe maybe, maybe The truth is that they actually just don't understand how the
judicial system is is working on behalf of Democrats right now. And I don't
mean obviously the entire thing, but I mean the way they learned to work
it. They've learned to find the venues they need, the judges they want,
the attorney generals who have made the promises of their campaign. Yep,
I'll do it. And if I fail, what difference does it make?
What difference does it make? If Alvin Braggett failed, it was it cost
him nothing. His reputation's just the same. He probably would win reelection.
It doesn't matter. They don't They like Democrats have got that game on lock.
And yet Republicans just seem, well, that's just democracy, that's just
the way it goes. How do we make a difference. I don't know
if you know the answer. We'll talk about it another podcast. Well,
you know, before we rap otty, it is true, our colleague was
correct that Bragg had begun speaking actually in Manhattan. Let's go through a little
bit of what he said before we wrap. He thanked the jury and said,
quote, their service is literally the cornerstone of our judicial system. Twelve
everyday New Yorkers, and of course our alternates, her testimony from twenty two
witnesses, including former current employees of the defendant, media executives, book publishers,
custodians of records, and others. That's what he said, and he
continued, their model public servants. This is his prosecution team. This is
in response to what he said was their service. He said, their model
public servants. And I am proud and humbled to serve side by side with
them. And he added that their professionalism and tegrity and dedication and service is
that they embodied all of those values. And then he said he did not
know if he will request a prison sentence for Donald Trump. He said,
the judge scheduled sentencing for July eleventh. We will speak in court at that
time. We also said a motion schedule. Will speak as we have done
throughout this preceding. That's all what Bragg just had to say. It's the
press conference as we're speaking is actually not over yet. That seems to be
the main takeaway so far, Eddie, any response to what Bragg said just
then, I'll just be looking forward to MSNBC's Joy and Read to come on
TV and say They're the first person to get a conviction was a black man.
And look how special that is because I know that that's that's like so
important to the left and Democrats, And I think what I would say is
that's this isn't over. It's not over. The consequences are going to be
so they're going to last forever. And what if they think this is a
win, think again, think again. Well, yeah, I mean I
agree with that in a number of different ways. I mean, I think
it could prove to be true in a number of different ways. We just
we don't know where this is going to go. Robert F. Kennedy Junior
said that it was I think he said something it was the abuse of the
justice system, or note was being used to divide people. That's what RFK
Junior said, which I used to think is a pretty good reaction for somebody
running on a third party ticket. Byron York in the Washington Examiner, great
reporter, especially on this law fair beat you should subscribe to Byrons Oh my
goodness, his Washington Examiner newsletter. He says a real question Alvin Brack just
now at the press conference, many people said the prosecution was masterful and flawless.
I just like to know how you feel. Many people are saying it's
like a Trump quote, right, like they always inadvertently are the mirror image
of Donald Trump. Many people are saying you are the greatest president. I'd
like to know what you think about that. It's just what they did,
even though this is somebody who is now currently getting absolutely torn apart by people,
reasonable people, not just hacks, on both sides of the political spectrum
and in between, everywhere in between. That's not to say everybody is reacting
to this with horror, because a lot of partisans are happy about it,
and I'm sure there's some partisans on the right who were going to be upset
no matter what, even if it had been fair blah blah blah, which
it wasn't. Thirty four convictions felony conviction, but of course it was only
a felony because it was allegedly in the furtherance of some crime that Donald Trump
was not charged with. Right the right, So you can be convicted of
falsifying records in furtherance of another crime. That other crime was allegedly campaign finance
violation, which is how you trumpet up to a felony it's a felony to
violate campaign finance a loan that way. So the question here is, I
just like to know how you feel about all the people saying your your work
was masterful and flawless, even though this is a guy who's you know,
if you're talking to actual like sane analysts who are not hacks, are not
in some sort of like MSNBC sealed echo chamber where uh, the instead of
water, it's just chardonnay in the taps. Uh, you are are not
going to ask that question. I mean that is just insane. Yeah,
I think that Alvin Brad, I don't know this whole We're in this weird
and this has not been it's not new as with these trials. We're in
this weird thing where like the dumbest, the absolute dumbest, demonstrably dumb people
end up in these positions of power. And yet the media, if you
can say the right thing about Donald Trump and his supporters, they will turn
you into an absolute god, a sex symbol, a revolutionary figure. And
it's just very like I think that you know, they have some wins,
they have some short term gains. I think that what we're gonna see Is.
As this plays along, it's it's gonna be like kind of like the
same thing I would say with like the Me Too movement, It's going to
have an adverse effect. They're gonna people who say, you know, this
is I I was with you for a while, kind of like the black
lives Lives Matter stuff. I was with you right up until you said I
need to give up my job, that I need to give you money out
of my pocket, and the statues right yeah, like and started, and
then you came to my house and like spray, like you know, graffitied
it. I think that that we're gonna see a very similar effect. I
think we're only at the beginning. I think we've already seen this whole thing.
You know, even with the conviction. Even with the conviction, Okay,
okay, that's a win right for them, But you know, I
think he's made a complete ass out of himself. The funny will Is stuff
in Georgia has kind of done the same thing as that continues. Uh,
the prosecutors who have who have been shown to tamper with evidence in the Florida
case. I know there's the other fourth one is in Washington. We'll see
what happened there that that might be the only well the judge, I think
is the one who's there that's going to do herself in. But everyone who's
paying attention is going to look at that and be like, uh, you
know, you might call that a win, but that that makes me look
down on everything about you and about our own system. So you know,
they might call that a win with the further erosion of this great country.
And maybe that's the point. Maybe that's the point. I don't know,
but I will say that the Donald Trump team, they are they are putting
up a fight, and there's a lot to be said about that. It
blows my mind. I will just say this one real, one quick thing,
real quick, that there have been people who have been driven to alcoholism,
drugs, and suicide under far less pressure, and this dude comes out
and just says, I'm still going, I'm still running, I plan on
winning. And I find that really funny and remarkable and inspiring. Eddie.
I'm glad to know that you are personally inspired. I don't I said that
in no way that was kind of mocking, But I'm only amused because I
didn't know you were going to go in such an emotional direction just now.
I do think it's a fair point though, that you know, Trump for
whatever reason. I mean, the guy is just a machine, you know,
no matter what you think about him, he's like up. It sleeps
like four hours a night and is up just like trash posting and keeping on,
keeping on constantly. And you know, a good probably that's a good
place to wrap it, because this is, you know, clearly going to
be fought tooth and nail. And to go back to that Paul Sperry tweet,
he says, you know Trump's not gonna go to Rikers before the election.
That does sound accurate to me. And I don't know what's going to
happen in one direction or the other. I genuinely don't have a prediction.
All I'll say is don't I don't put it past them to find a way
to make sure that Trump does go to Rikers, because it's essentially what they
did in rigging the trial. And don't take my word for it, take
prosecutor Andy McCarthy. Anti Trump prosecutor Andy McCarthy's word for it. In National
Review, he basically wrote the fix is in in an op bed. He's
been covering this trial very closely, so I'll leave it at that, Eddie.
And lastly, I just wanted to say your point about it being like
Me Too movement with the Black Lives Matter movement really really, really good point.
I think you should actually write a piece about that, because it's such
an accurate comparison, because Trump is such a cultural phenomenon, not merely political.
It's not merely about sort of catching table economics. There's is such a
magnet for vibes or a mirror or you know what's the better. I'm struggling
for metaphors here. I'm mixing all of them together in a beautiful jambalaya.
But he's a he really is a reflection of the vibes, and it's he's
something that people just project the vibes onto and in a way that's almost trans
political. Obviously has major political consequences, but I think that is such a
smart parallel and I hope you write that piece, Eddie Scary. We'll do
my best. Thank you, Thank you for that, Emily, Eddie Scary
my colleague. He is d C correspondent at The Federalist. I tease the
little personal announcement at the end of the show that we taped earlier today,
kind of on Thursday. That will wait until Monday for this breaking news.
We will see you all back here at the Federalist Radio Hour soon. Eddie,
thanks for joining us. Thanks. I'm Emily Dashinski, culture editor here
at the Federalist Radio Hour. We'll be backward soon up more. Until then,
be the lovers of freedom and anxious for the fry.