1 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,879 We're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Drashinsky, 2 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,920 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,000 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on ex at fdr LST, 4 00:00:28,199 --> 00:00:31,199 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course to 5 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,960 the premium version of our website, The Federalist dot Com as well. We 6 00:00:36,039 --> 00:00:42,079 are here to discuss the verdict in Donald Trump's case in Manhattan, the case 7 00:00:42,119 --> 00:00:46,600 that was brought by Alvin Bragg. As you probably now know, Donald Trump 8 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:52,799 was found guilty on all counts by a jury and Manhattan. We talked actually 9 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:57,920 earlier today as I'm coming to you with my colleague Washington Correspondent, DC correspondent 10 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,439 at The Federalist, Eddie Scarry. Chris and I talked earlier today on this 11 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:08,079 very show about the likelihood of this guilty verdict. That prediction turned out to 12 00:01:08,159 --> 00:01:12,680 be the right one held up unfortunately, because I don't think this is good 13 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:18,719 for the country overall. But Eddie, let me just get your immediate reaction 14 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:23,200 before we dive into all of the different details that I'm excited to break down 15 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:29,680 with you, because actually there's some interesting potential outcomes as we're learning more and 16 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,359 more about what's set to happen. He is going to be sentenced on July 17 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,120 eleventh, that is four days because before the Republican National Convention kicks off in 18 00:01:38,239 --> 00:01:42,680 Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It's that juxtaposition, I think, in and of itself 19 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:48,200 is a horror show for Democrats. But Eddie, how are you reacting so 20 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:53,239 far? Well, it's exactly like you just said that, this is really 21 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,879 just depressing for the country. I don't. I don't even look at this 22 00:01:57,079 --> 00:02:02,640 in terms of like hardness in politics or what we think of and left and 23 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,480 right and conservative, liberal, Republican Democrat. I really don't. And I 24 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,039 don't know if that would be hard to believe, just because you know so 25 00:02:10,159 --> 00:02:14,240 often that's that's what that's what we have to deal with. That's just the 26 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:19,599 dynamic that that our system is kind of built to, you know, and 27 00:02:19,599 --> 00:02:23,960 how we reflect on things in our system. But the second I heard about 28 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,599 the verdict that just came out on this Trump trial, at that man, 29 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,560 that is depressing for this country and embarrassing really, And when I say embarrassing, 30 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:38,000 I mean imagine looking looking from the outside, you're in some other countries 31 00:02:38,039 --> 00:02:39,240 somewhere else, and you're looking, You're like, that's that's America. I 32 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:44,120 didn't know they did that kind of thing there. It's just really depressing. 33 00:02:44,159 --> 00:02:46,919 And I mean there were actually I was, I'm in a group chat with 34 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:53,240 two different friends of mine and you know, they're not super they're not hyper 35 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,240 hyper informed or you know, engaged with politics, but they know enough, 36 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,960 probably a little bit more than the average. And one of them thought, 37 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,840 well, one of them asked, you know, so what does this mean? 38 00:03:05,879 --> 00:03:07,319 And the other one said, Eddie's going to say it doesn't mean anything. 39 00:03:08,439 --> 00:03:12,599 And I said no, I said, I mean I think that probably 40 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,199 what you know, Trump, maybe he'll get some kind of fine or something, 41 00:03:15,199 --> 00:03:16,360 but he's going to appeal it anyway. It's gonna just it's good. 42 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:22,919 There's gonna there's a lengthy appeal process that's going to move forward. But it's 43 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,560 not true that this means nothing. This is really devastating for what we know 44 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,240 as the rule of law in this country, the judicial system in this country. 45 00:03:31,039 --> 00:03:36,919 And it makes it reminds me of when back in back after Trump one 46 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,639 in twenty sixteen, and you know, the whole thing was the whole locker 47 00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:42,240 up, locker up. And then, of course, of course, right 48 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,240 after he won election, he tells the New York Times editorial board like, 49 00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:47,639 I'm not going to do anything with the Clintons. I don't want to hurt 50 00:03:47,639 --> 00:03:51,879 them. I think let's bring the country together. And I remember talking actually 51 00:03:52,039 --> 00:03:54,680 to my dad, I don't know if it was within within the year right 52 00:03:54,719 --> 00:04:01,080 after when and one of his friends, and they asked about that. They 53 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,759 said, why didn't he ever do anything? And I said, I, 54 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:08,120 well, did anybody think he was serious about the whole locker up thing? 55 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:11,680 And they said I thought he was. And I said, you can't. 56 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,840 Why did you think that was serious? And what does it look like for 57 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:19,480 America to turn around and lock up, throw in prison, or even just 58 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:27,439 criminally prosecute in any way our nation's top diplomat. What would that look like 59 00:04:27,519 --> 00:04:30,160 to everybody else? Well, now we know what it looks like when you 60 00:04:30,199 --> 00:04:33,439 criminally prosecute a former president. Thank you, Democrats, thank you for showing 61 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:40,319 us what that looks like in the world. I want to read some reactions 62 00:04:40,399 --> 00:04:44,920 just that I've seen and have found interesting on Twitter so far, because Paul 63 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,519 Sperry at Real Clear tweets Sorry, to dash Trump hater's quote orange jumpsuit fantasies. 64 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,279 But Trump won't be taken into custody or go to rikers. Even if 65 00:04:54,319 --> 00:04:57,879 he's slapped with a prison term. He'll be free on bail pending appeal. 66 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,800 Sentencing won't be enforced until all New York appeals are exhausted well past the election. 67 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:08,839 Now, Eddie Chris on an earlier podcast that we taped today, because 68 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,560 you and I are literally taping this less than an hour after the verdict was 69 00:05:13,639 --> 00:05:18,480 rendered. Thirty four counts, by the way, all guilty, zero non 70 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,439 all guilty. You know, no hung jury, there was no nothing. 71 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:29,439 There was no count that wasn't a guilty count. And Chris was mentioning earlier 72 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:36,959 today that you know, this is what's happening is so already norm breaking because 73 00:05:36,959 --> 00:05:42,079 of all of the legal maneuvering that happened. You know, MSNBC calling this 74 00:05:42,199 --> 00:05:46,079 quote from Bragg a novel legal theory. That's something we've seen echoed even by 75 00:05:46,199 --> 00:05:50,720 people like liberals writing in the New York Times, and that you know the 76 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,600 reason all of these cases were pursued, as Chris and I talked about earlier 77 00:05:55,639 --> 00:05:58,439 today, is that they were throwing everything at the wall to see what would 78 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,480 stick before the election. So you know, you bring everything and you try 79 00:06:01,519 --> 00:06:05,240 to get something to stick before the election. So Paul Sperry, I think 80 00:06:05,319 --> 00:06:12,720 makes a reasonable and interesting observation based on what we know about how the criminal 81 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,600 justice system works, is supposed to work, normally works. I guess I 82 00:06:16,079 --> 00:06:18,920 just feel like they may have plenty of tricks up their sleeve. I'm not 83 00:06:18,959 --> 00:06:23,839 a lawyer, but I just don't trust that, you know, they're not 84 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,759 so thirsty to put Trump and Rikers before the election that they don't just pull 85 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,000 the plug or pull the trigger. I mean, yeah, I wouldn't doubt 86 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,720 it, especially with this judge and the way this judge was just trying to 87 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:42,639 like flex over and over again. But you know, there weren't any cameras 88 00:06:42,639 --> 00:06:46,439 in the court, so we were just relying on you know, like cringe 89 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,199 reports as if this is like nineteen thirty or something like no audio recording, 90 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:55,040 no videos, so just we're just relying on what people who were in the 91 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,560 room and the notes they took. But this judge that he kept saying things 92 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,399 like I will put you in jail. I don't want to have to do 93 00:07:02,439 --> 00:07:06,079 it, but I will do it. Okay, that's we're not supposed to 94 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,800 be here to begin with. This is not where this country is supposed to 95 00:07:10,839 --> 00:07:14,279 be. We're not supposed to be at the point where it goes to the 96 00:07:14,319 --> 00:07:19,399 Supreme Court about whether the president, in his capacity in office, you know, 97 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,439 whether he can be criminally charged for the things he does, which, 98 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,600 again I guess we have to say this where there's no victim. There's nobody 99 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,639 who died, there's nobody who was bankrupted, there's nobody who suffered some severe 100 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:38,439 injury. And yet we you know, these the people who are kind of 101 00:07:39,079 --> 00:07:44,920 facilitating this process keep escalating it over and over again. And I mean I 102 00:07:44,959 --> 00:07:49,360 will obviously it's Donald Trump, who is someone who is not afraid to test 103 00:07:49,439 --> 00:07:56,480 the limits. But when you when you put a former president in that position, 104 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,560 I mean, what what what else left does he have? You're leaving? 105 00:08:00,639 --> 00:08:01,720 And not only that, not only is he a former president, you 106 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,560 always have to remember he's running for president again. He's running for president again, 107 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,639 and he is at this moment, he is likely to win. That 108 00:08:09,759 --> 00:08:11,040 is what I believe he's likely to win. That's what the numbers saying. 109 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,879 We have nothing else to go on other than the numbers. Okay, so 110 00:08:15,959 --> 00:08:20,319 this is not a situation that anyone in history had ever anticipated. I don't 111 00:08:20,319 --> 00:08:24,480 think our framers, I think all the every indication is that our framers thought, 112 00:08:24,519 --> 00:08:26,399 this is not you know, there's nothing even to worry about. They're 113 00:08:26,399 --> 00:08:30,360 never going to that's never going to be a scenario that we need to write 114 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,799 in the constitution or specifically spell out or write, you know, documents. 115 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,399 If I'm wrong with someone, please out there correct me on that. But 116 00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:41,559 you know, I think just having these having a judge like this and so 117 00:08:41,639 --> 00:08:48,159 many others, these das, these elected democrats, they to your point, 118 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,799 they do seem willing to just how far can we go with this? And 119 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:56,440 I think, you know, the idea to give them, I guess the 120 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,360 benefit of the doubt. It's, well, nobody is above the law, 121 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,600 but we're talking about a very very different situation. Where is this the law? 122 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:13,759 Because these are completely new you just touched on this completely new legal theories, 123 00:09:13,279 --> 00:09:18,320 theories about what is actual criminal conduct, things that have never been tested 124 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:20,759 before in court. So what does it mean to be about the law when 125 00:09:20,759 --> 00:09:24,120 we don't even know that this is the law. Very very strange and very 126 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,559 dangerous. Yeah, I mean I think the question for the left right now, 127 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,840 because you're really most people, I'm sure believe that Donald Trump is guilty 128 00:09:35,879 --> 00:09:41,879 of not this particular crime, but in a general sense, the moral crime 129 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,840 of likely having had an affair, likely having had sex with Stormy Daniels while 130 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,159 Milannia Trump was pregnant, and this was all it was supposed to have happened 131 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,559 in Lake Tahoe. I don't think it's as outrageous as then Egen Carroll story. 132 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,399 I actually think it's pretty reasonable. I actually don't know though. Yeah, 133 00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:01,000 it should be clear. I have no idea so it actually happened, 134 00:10:01,279 --> 00:10:07,080 but I think it's more likely than not this happened. And still that's very 135 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,879 different than what's happening in court. So I think the question for the left 136 00:10:09,919 --> 00:10:18,000 and the center right now is is it worth convicting the former president and now 137 00:10:18,159 --> 00:10:26,879 the presidential the presumptive presidential nominee on thirty four felony counts with a quote novel 138 00:10:26,159 --> 00:10:35,000 legal theory, while an establishment member an elite member of the other political party, 139 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,080 whether it's Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton, the last two major party nominees, 140 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:46,519 both of whom either from themselves or their immediate families could very easily have 141 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,759 also had similar situations where there's legal stuff being thrown at the wall to see 142 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:56,440 what sticks. Is it worth it? Was it worth convicting Donald Trump thirty 143 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:01,639 four felon accounts while not doing this to his opponent. I mean, I 144 00:11:01,639 --> 00:11:05,600 told Chris today, I'm all for a rule of law and finding ways to 145 00:11:05,639 --> 00:11:11,360 lock up white collar criminals. But there's a very fine line between rule of 146 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,159 law and Banana Republic, and that I think what we're on right now is 147 00:11:16,759 --> 00:11:20,320 this is very obviously tells us we're on one wrong side of that line, 148 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:24,679 and things can get much much worse. You know, there's a spectrum on 149 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,559 the other side of that line. You know, you could be hopefully we're 150 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:30,559 still you know, within a distance of the line that we can return to 151 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,960 a country that really does have a norm of the rule of law with some 152 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,960 of our most high profile partisan figures. But you know, you never know 153 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,320 when you hit the point of no return. You know, there's no sign 154 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,679 that says point of no return right here. And my prediction going forward is 155 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:50,320 just you see an escalation in uh you know, it feels like Brazil. 156 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,440 You know, an escalation in these types of lawfair tactics and escalation and sort 157 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,919 of rolling political violence. Thankfully, as we're recording this ed either have not 158 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,320 been violent reactions so far to the verdict. There are more cases, there's 159 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:07,399 more legal appeals to happen. In this particular case and in all the other 160 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,200 cases. There's an election coming out, the conventions are coming out, but 161 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,519 the Democrats are back in Chicago with all of these parallels, and Kennedy is 162 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,200 running for president and all these parallels in nineteen sixty eight. So that's my 163 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,159 prediction. I'm not saying it's going to come true, but I really do 164 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,960 think the central question for the left right now is was this decision or was 165 00:12:28,039 --> 00:12:31,600 this verdict worth it? And I don't even know, Eddie, I think, 166 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,559 I mean, obviously I know the answer to that question on from my 167 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:37,799 own opinion, But what I was going to say is, I don't even 168 00:12:37,879 --> 00:12:48,320 know if people realize, even educated people realize exactly how insane this trial was. 169 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,200 Actually. Andy McCarthy not a pro Trump person by any stretch of the 170 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,759 imagination. He writes that National Review, He's a Fox contributor, I think, 171 00:12:56,159 --> 00:13:01,600 had a great piece of National Review this morning explaining exactly how Mershan, 172 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:05,919 the judge whose daughter I think he donated to Biden, whose daughter is a 173 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:11,480 major dem consultant whose clients have included people like Adam Schiff and Dan Coldman. 174 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,480 It's just outrageous. Just optically, it's a confident, it's a conflict of 175 00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:20,279 interest and likely in substance as well, because you can't get that stuff out 176 00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:24,720 of your head. So you know, all of the different things that were 177 00:13:24,759 --> 00:13:31,360 allowed to happen in this trial, the statute of limitations being overcome because of 178 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,720 COVID. Then you have the uh, the crime being turned not the crime, 179 00:13:35,759 --> 00:13:41,799 but the the allegation being turned into a felony because it was in furtherance 180 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,120 of allegedly a campaign finance violation, but he wasn't technically charged with that. 181 00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:50,480 I mean, it's just was it worth it? I mean, if people 182 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,600 don't ask themselves that question, they don't even know what questions to ask. 183 00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:56,559 I guess, yeah. And before I get to that, I will say 184 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,200 that you said you said there hasn't been any violence yet. That is I 185 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,720 guess that's true at this very moment. But what there have been has been 186 00:14:03,759 --> 00:14:07,720 the threat of violence. And this is something that I've been trying to stress 187 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:13,000 just in casual conversations with people. The threat of violence is what a criminal 188 00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:18,919 prosecution is at its heart. Really, this is a threat of violence against 189 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,159 Donald Trump because it's you need to show up. You need to show up 190 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,679 for court. If you don't show up for court, we're going to arrestue 191 00:14:24,679 --> 00:14:28,639 and throw you in jail. If you resist in some way, we are 192 00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:35,240 very much legally authorized to shoot you. So this has always been under the 193 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:37,080 threat of violence from the beginning. And I mean, we can go back 194 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,879 to twenty twenty with the hostage situation that the Left had this entire nation under 195 00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:46,360 which was we are going to burn down your city. We are going to 196 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,600 burn down the capitol if we don't get it the way we want. You 197 00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:50,720 live in Washington, DC, just like I did at the time, and 198 00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:56,080 you saw all like right ahead of the election, all the storefronts boarded up 199 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:00,159 once again. They had just come down after that summer of fire to the 200 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,720 peaceful protests. They had just come down summer of love, and then they 201 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:07,120 went right back up again. And that was not in anticipation of a Trump 202 00:15:07,559 --> 00:15:11,840 or rather of a Biden victory. That was in anticipating a Trump victory and 203 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:15,279 what the left was going to do in Washington, DC. That's why they 204 00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:18,840 put up those boards. So this is the threat of violence has been lingering 205 00:15:18,879 --> 00:15:22,360 for a very very long time, always from the left. And then to 206 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,639 answer your question more directly about was it worth it? Yes, I this 207 00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:28,759 this is a question that I would think that people just kind of ask throughout 208 00:15:28,759 --> 00:15:33,799 their everyday lives, but certainly in politics and certainly on this exact topic. 209 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,799 Put in another way, is the juice worth the squeeze? And that's kind 210 00:15:37,799 --> 00:15:45,000 of what should have been, you know, at the forefront of everyone's mind, 211 00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:48,600 like, well, am I really willing am I really willing to risk, 212 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,960 you know, to where it gets to the point where you know, 213 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,120 whoever's in power just throws their enemies in prison or even just for fun, 214 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:03,320 starts targeting them with criminal prostecutions, investigations. You know, for all the 215 00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:08,919 talk that you get and that we've had now for multiple years from Democrats about 216 00:16:08,919 --> 00:16:15,559 the norms and our you know, our institutions and just like you know, 217 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,200 the way things the way we do business are traditions, they certainly don't care 218 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:23,759 about any of that stuff when it anymore at all, I guess when it 219 00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:29,600 comes to getting Trump and everything he represents, and and and snuffing out the 220 00:16:29,799 --> 00:16:34,200 last best hope of you know who, his supporters believe in that they have 221 00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:38,399 determined that we are willing to throw all that away, to hell with the 222 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:44,399 norms, the guard rail, rails of democracy. If we can just put 223 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,320 this guy away, if we can get rid of him, it will all 224 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,039 have been worth it. And I just find that I find that a really 225 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,919 weird calculation because you're testing people who I mean, you know, there's a 226 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:02,360 lot of different thoughts about this and and everything, but you're testing people and 227 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:06,680 you saw I think you saw a very very tame version of people, those 228 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,599 people who are tested on January sixth, that was a very very tame version. 229 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,559 Do you really want to continue down that path? Because if you're saying 230 00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:18,759 that the juice is worth the squeeze, you that it is worth it. 231 00:17:18,759 --> 00:17:22,079 It's not as if this is a reality reality show where this season is over 232 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,240 come back in a few months. Maybe there's another word, maybe the show 233 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,240 altogether is over. There are long, long, long lasting consequences for this 234 00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:34,039 type of stuff. And you know, the point you made about escalation is, 235 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,039 of course sure, and it's and it's again, it's always Democrats to 236 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:44,799 do it. The most notable one for you Trump was the elimination of the 237 00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:48,400 filibustero her cabinet appointees. Okay, so then Republicans come back and say, 238 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,839 well, we're going to do it for judicial appointees, you know. And 239 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,400 then and then Democrats and I say, well, we're going to impeach you 240 00:17:55,119 --> 00:18:00,240 over over a foreign policy disagreement. You know. So what's well, I 241 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,440 would say, what's the safer a Republicans not doing not doing the same thing 242 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,799 back? But actually we saw what happened. Republicans couldn't get couldn't even you 243 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:11,920 know, land that one. But no, I think to answer your question, 244 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,599 they totally believe it's been worth it, right. I mean, I 245 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,079 guess I should have even said, like the I definitely know I agree with 246 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,759 you completely that they think it's worth it. I think they may actually some 247 00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:30,920 of them may break away when they see the fruit that it bears in the 248 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,240 months to come. But I don't think most of them. Well, what 249 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,759 I think, or who I think should be asking that question is like regular 250 00:18:38,079 --> 00:18:44,279 normy Americans center right, you know. Larry Hogan posted a statement He's probably 251 00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:48,759 a good barometer saying, you know, just respect the rule of law or 252 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:51,720 something like that, where it's like, or respect the respect the ruling. 253 00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:55,160 It was a jury blah blah blah. Well, if the jury isn't guided 254 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,480 properly by the judge, because the judge is allowed to be an open partisan 255 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,759 who don't to the candidate whose daughter is making money on the people who are 256 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:08,039 fueling this, and that's all just allowed to happen, and he's allowed to 257 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,720 misguide the trial and allow things to be novel in ways that they shouldn't be, 258 00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:17,880 then you know, the jury process is obviously not going to be a 259 00:19:18,079 --> 00:19:23,599 perfect beautiful reflection of our legal system. So I think that question for me, 260 00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:27,119 really, what I worry is that there are people in the center, 261 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:33,200 maybe center right, maybe center left, that if they sort of tore off 262 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,039 the layers, they peeled back the layers of this, you know, legal 263 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,400 onion to realize exactly what had happened, they would be really disturbed. But 264 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:45,079 I don't know that they even know to do that because the media has been 265 00:19:45,319 --> 00:19:53,359 totally complicit. The media has been totally parroting the story of the partisan prosecutors. 266 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,880 I mean, Bragg ran on a get Trump platform basically, and the 267 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:02,200 media has largely allowed him to get away with all of this with a couple 268 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,319 and Eddie. You cover media, you study the media really closely. There 269 00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:08,039 have been a couple of skeptical op eds in the New York Times, you 270 00:20:08,079 --> 00:20:12,599 know, from elite left lawyers. There has been some stuff that's been dissenting 271 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,960 and it's like, I don't know about this case for the most part, 272 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,880 though, that has not leaked into the broader coverage. What do you make 273 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:23,160 of that? Actually, this is a great question for you. I mean, 274 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,119 I don't think there's been much dissent in the media coverage at all. 275 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,480 No, I don't think so as far as the media goes. No, 276 00:20:32,599 --> 00:20:37,839 I mean everything everything I read treats this as if like even even even on 277 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,519 the right, even the Washington creatures, who I say, the right, 278 00:20:41,559 --> 00:20:45,880 I mean you should put that in quotes. They're not they're not really uh 279 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,480 yeah, well you know they're Washington Republicans. What they are? Like, 280 00:20:51,079 --> 00:20:52,839 what's your name? I'd hate to say this if your friends are something, 281 00:20:52,880 --> 00:21:00,559 but like Sarah Laurz, I think who used to work for, not briefly 282 00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:03,319 for Jeff Sessions, she works for she works for CNN now doesn't she or 283 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,759 maybe the Lincoln Magic one of those guys. I knew that there was like 284 00:21:07,799 --> 00:21:12,599 this brief period. I sometimes lump them all. There's this there's this particular 285 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:19,440 like attractive brunette like rch type on the right who just somehow they all seem 286 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,680 to think the same things and have the same career trajectory in the area, 287 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,680 in the Washington area. And she's one of them. But she, you 288 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,960 know, she've had this tweet recently about you know, remember there was those 289 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,720 documents that came out showing how I guess it was the arrest warrant for Trump 290 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:40,359 or something that was that showed that the FBI was authorized to use force necessary 291 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,640 and right, and she tweets, this is completely normal, this is standard 292 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:51,279 protocol. It's like, these are not standard you know, scenarios, These 293 00:21:51,279 --> 00:21:53,160 are not things. And you know, but I think that the idea right 294 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:59,279 now is to make it seem to normalize it. And that's just so that 295 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,359 I hate this. This is like such a cliche now, but it's like 296 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,519 you're you're once again, you're bringing us to a point where we can't ever 297 00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:10,880 go back. We can't ever go back because there's going to be a response 298 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:15,000 to this. We're already seeing it. We're seeing people people who generally don't 299 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,119 speak out on this stuff, who've shown very little interests or maybe even an 300 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,039 aversion to politics, and they're speaking out and just saying, like, you 301 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,559 know, this is not you know, I think you're going you're going too 302 00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:26,720 far with this. And I think when they say that, what they're trying 303 00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:30,759 to get across, because these are people who don't have a long history of 304 00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:34,599 living and breathing this politics stuff like you and I do, and being engaged 305 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,000 in the fight. What I think they're trying to say is I'm not okay 306 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:41,920 with this, like and I don't think there's anything you can and you know, 307 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,359 my instincts tell me that you're taking this down the wrong path, and 308 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,599 unfortunately it's coming a little bit too late. But I do think that you 309 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,359 know, as far as like you know, the nor means the people who 310 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,960 aren't who aren't so engaged with people who you know, the non billionaire, 311 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:04,559 just the average middle incomes, the working class people. My hope, really, 312 00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:08,079 and I just say this for practical reasons, is that they look at 313 00:23:08,079 --> 00:23:11,640 this and say, all right, you know what I am out, I 314 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,839 am you know, I hadn't made up my mind about the election, but 315 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:18,000 you know I voted for Biden in twenty twenty. I'm done. I'm not 316 00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:22,519 participating in this anymore. And I say that only because that is effectively about 317 00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:26,599 for Donald Trump. Well, yeah, let's go through some of those reactions. 318 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,799 I think that's really relevant. My prediction that I said to Chris earlier 319 00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:33,359 today, before we even knew the jury was going to reach a verdict, 320 00:23:33,319 --> 00:23:40,000 was basically, I don't think the Democrats understand how much this disrupts and pokesholes 321 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,960 in their attempt to run on a platform of normalcy, decency, civility, 322 00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:48,920 and democracy. I mean, people, to the point you just made, 323 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:57,440 people are so exasperated and fatigued by the constant cycle of chaos that now the 324 00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:07,000 image of the former president and the major party presumptive nominee being subjected to a 325 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:11,599 trial that ends up with him guilty on all of these different counts. Plenty 326 00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:14,519 of people, will, you know, read about the different partisan leanings of 327 00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:15,640 it, and you know, they might be of two minds and might be 328 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,799 like, ah, you know, he did something wrong. He probably falsified 329 00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:26,119 documents. But you know, I don't the Judge's daughter worked for or making 330 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,640 money from Democrats, and blah blah blah. It's just exhausting, it's chaotic. 331 00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:34,279 It doesn't feel like the decent democratic thing to do. In fact, 332 00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:40,119 this is a country that looks back on Gerald Ford pardoning Nixon as such a 333 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,599 sort of a noble thing, and people were pretty unhappy about it at the 334 00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:47,039 time, and you know, I have my own thoughts on that, but 335 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:52,079 it just people are going to see this as chaotic and as an example, 336 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,599 I mentioned Larry Hogan's reaction, but looks like a justin amash. It's just 337 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,920 a bitter opponent of Donald Trump, libertarian former republic congressman. Set aside the 338 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,480 politics he posted. Today's verdict is an affront to the rule of law and 339 00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:10,599 a perversion of justice. Bragg weaponized the legal system to indict Trump on charges 340 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,799 that never would have been brought against anyone else. The selective and abusive prosecution 341 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:22,000 will further undermine confidence in our constitution and divide America. It must not stand. 342 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,720 Tucker Carlson says, import the third world become the third World. That's 343 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,400 what we just saw. This won't stop Trump. He'll win the election if 344 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,440 he's not killed first, but it does mark the end of the fairest justice 345 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:34,000 system in the world. Anyone who defends this verdict is a danger to you 346 00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:38,079 and your family. I actually don't understand the third world part of that argument, 347 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,680 to be honest. I feel like we've just all become not because of 348 00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:48,440 like immigration, but because of just like pure Western decadence. Darryl Cooper said, 349 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,319 anyone who tells you it's time to quote do something right now is a 350 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,839 fed. The only thing you should do is wait for him to walk away, 351 00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:56,160 then kick him in the balls from behind as hard as you can. 352 00:25:56,279 --> 00:26:00,240 I mean, if that person is your enemy, he is trying to hurt 353 00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:03,759 you. That gets to the violence issue we talked about earlier, and as 354 00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:07,079 Stepman tweeted, we now live in a country where the loser of the next 355 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:14,200 election is going to jail. That basically encapsulates my thoughts. Michael Tracy from 356 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,759 the left. Even if the convictions are overturned on appeal, highly likely the 357 00:26:18,839 --> 00:26:22,000 genie is out of the bottle. There's every reason to think tit for tat 358 00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:29,480 prosecutorial fishing expeditions will now become the norm in US presidential politics. Let's do 359 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,279 one more here from Ron DeSantis. Today's verdict represents the culmination of a legal 360 00:26:33,319 --> 00:26:37,599 process that has been bent to the political will of the actors. Involved a 361 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,880 leftist prosecutor, a partisan judge, and a jury reflective of one of the 362 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,759 most liberal enclaves in America, all in an effort to quote get Donald Trump. 363 00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:49,359 Desanta's posted a pretty long statement here, and then Bill Ackman, formerly 364 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,640 a man of the left to the point where he had actually endorsed Claudine Gay 365 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,640 for her as the president of Harvard, he quote tweeted Ron de Santas and 366 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,799 said, I think any objective person and would have to agree with Governor Ron 367 00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:06,559 DeSantis here. Ackman is now an active Trump supporter. Jake Sherman tweeted that 368 00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:10,920 Republican sources are telling him when read their donation platform is exploding. I saw 369 00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:15,079 that Walsh tweet that he's now going to Democrat, going to donate to the 370 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,160 Trump campaign. Eddie, I know that I just took a probably non representative 371 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,880 slice. This is the Twitter Rody, the sort of broadly anti establishment, 372 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,440 not just right of center, but I would say anti establishment, you know 373 00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:33,200 pundits on on X but I don't know. I mean those are people who 374 00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:40,480 whose reactions matter to how the public is going to take their cues. Yeah, 375 00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:44,240 and they have massive followings. I think that, you know, people 376 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,599 are listening. You know, I'm not so hopeful as to be like, 377 00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:52,519 you know, people are waking up and they understand. I really do think 378 00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:57,000 that things have been so cheapened with our politics, which is which is really 379 00:27:57,079 --> 00:28:00,599 unfortunate, and it's not you know, some people will go, well, 380 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,880 what it's because Donald Trump and he made everything a show. No, he 381 00:28:04,039 --> 00:28:08,319 was. He he had an entertaining quality quality to him, of course, 382 00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:15,319 but the reaction to him was so from from Washington, from the media that 383 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,240 it was the media, the entertainment industry, the academia. It was so 384 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,720 visceral and ugly. And you know, I always talk about that. I'll 385 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,920 always talk about it that I think about this a lot back when, back 386 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,599 when he initially was running and he gave his speech and I thought, that's 387 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:36,400 kind of silly. And it wasn't until I saw the way when what when 388 00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:38,920 the thing that people that when I say people, I mean the media what 389 00:28:40,039 --> 00:28:42,640 they found so controversial, which which was mostly I think the first one was 390 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:47,519 the Mexican rapists and the you know, the murders of crimes, the drugs, 391 00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:52,359 the drugs coming across the border. When they when they found controversy in 392 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,319 that was when I was like, that's that's why I thought it was. 393 00:28:55,359 --> 00:28:56,720 I thought you just didn't like him because he was kind of silly, and 394 00:28:56,759 --> 00:29:00,759 he does. He's done this for multiple times because you know, he's pretended 395 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:03,200 he was going to run for president and now it looks like he's probably faking 396 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,839 it again. But no, it was actually the issue. The issue was 397 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,119 what they took exception with and I was like, but no, that's true 398 00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:15,759 though, And just seeing the reaction that that has been, uh what what 399 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:22,519 so? And I say this with absolute pride, has absolutely radicalized me. 400 00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:27,640 But I think that that has been I think that's been the trajectory for a 401 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,200 lot of people. Is they're just looking at things, including the people that 402 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,519 you're talking about, including all their followers, and just saying like this is 403 00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:38,720 this was This wasn't where I thought we were heading. I thought when we 404 00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:42,319 when we elected Joe Biden, that this was okay, things get to be 405 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,400 quiet now. No, we saw the exact opposite. And actually, when 406 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,839 I wrote my book, this was heading into the twenty twenty election, which 407 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,960 is called grow up and grow, grow up and vote for Trump? Was 408 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,039 it growing? Was it growing voper Trump? Why the twenty twenty election is 409 00:29:56,079 --> 00:29:59,079 or last chance of being an adult something like that. And it was just 410 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,160 all about how you know, you think you really do think that this is 411 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,599 going to calm down after this. No, the empire is going to strike 412 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:11,200 back, strike back with absolute vengeance here, and it's exactly what we've seen. 413 00:30:11,559 --> 00:30:15,440 I think people didn't anticipate it. You can't blame them for it. 414 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,480 You know, when people when you have a wall of noise, and when 415 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,519 I say the wall of noise, you have all the entertainment industry, all 416 00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:26,440 of academia, all of the media coming at you and telling you all of 417 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,079 this is going to stop. All of this hysteria will stop if we get 418 00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:33,559 rid of this one guy and people. I think they bought it and then 419 00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:36,279 they did it, and then now look where we are. So that's why 420 00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:40,240 I think you have so many people who I mean, I think you're right 421 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,799 that it's not these are just these are Twitter people, these are the hyper 422 00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:48,200 engaged, but they have massive audiences and I think that it does count for 423 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,240 something. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, even if you know CNN is still 424 00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:57,799 going to CNN or whatever. Actually, Alvin Bragg, I think our colleagues 425 00:30:57,799 --> 00:31:00,440 are saying, even as we're talking right now, that Alvin Bragg is giving 426 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,480 remarks, so monitor that. But I wanted to tell a bit of an 427 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,440 anecdote. I feel like I actually should have opened with this because it was 428 00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:15,440 really a poignant moment before we knew that there was a verdict. And actually 429 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:18,599 Kyle Cheney, who I think is at Politico or the New York Times, 430 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:26,200 had posted around four thirty pm that there was no verdict that the jurors were 431 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:30,720 going home, which was it had everyone sort of take a deep sigh of 432 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:34,599 relief. But you know, I was at I was at a bar and 433 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:41,119 a meeting with a source, and as we were at the bar on Capitol 434 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,240 Hill because they're in recess right now, so you can do a lot of 435 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,759 meetings at like four pm, which I was wondering whys. Yes, I'm 436 00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:53,799 just absolutely hammered at a pacificum, which I hadn't had in years and was 437 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,119 lovely. But not to undermine my point here, which was going to be 438 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,920 that business was per seating a pace and this is the particular bar was that 439 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:07,119 was on Capitol Hill, literally steps from the Capitol, popular with House staffers, 440 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,000 and I mean it's basically exclusively how staffers, lobbyist, journalists, and 441 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,400 the TV. As soon as we knew that the verdict was going to come 442 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:20,480 out, the TV was briefly turned to I think Fox or CNN, and 443 00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:22,799 everyone sort of watched it for about a minute, and then they legitimately put 444 00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:25,640 on women's softball again, I'm not making that up, Like they turned it 445 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:29,759 onto the news for a minute and then went back to women's softball. There 446 00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:35,559 was no reaction, you know, there was no horror, there was no 447 00:32:35,839 --> 00:32:39,400 gale. It was just sort of business as usual. And in fact, 448 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:45,759 the source pointed out for me, I started turned and looked behind me that 449 00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:52,640 some members of the Speaker's staff. So Speaker Johnson's staff walked into the bar, 450 00:32:52,799 --> 00:32:58,920 totally nonplussed as all of this was happening, just again going about their 451 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:04,039 business, not horror, not reacting, not glued to their phones. You 452 00:33:04,079 --> 00:33:06,359 know, a lot of officers had their statements ready to go, so all 453 00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:09,359 they had to do was sort of click post. But it was just the 454 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:15,119 strangest thing, like this was such a precedent setting situation on the news and 455 00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:19,799 even in a Capitol Hill bar. It was on for ten seconds or thirty 456 00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:22,440 seconds or a minute, and then they went back to women's softball. The 457 00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:28,000 speaker, the Republican Speaker, you have members of his staff walking in with 458 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,680 just plain looks on their faces, again, just business as usual. It 459 00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:35,119 was just very It was very I mean, it's a beautiful day here in 460 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,759 DC right now. It was a ten out of ten, rated a ten 461 00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:40,000 out of ten by Capitol Weather Gang, which is rare. You couldn't get 462 00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:45,880 a better day, you know, It's like seventy degrees beautiful, sey not 463 00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:49,400 humid, and everyone's just going about their business. When you have this huge 464 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,799 precedent shattering moment transpiring in New York. It's just to see the speakers, 465 00:33:53,839 --> 00:33:58,960 part of the speaker's team walk in. According to the source, was just 466 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:06,160 a very yeah. I think people are just generally anord to it, anord 467 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:12,280 to it, and not just Washington. But I guess someone a somewhat different 468 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,360 point I wanted to make, and I actually wanted to make it my previous 469 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,320 responses to something you asked, But this is kind of why it's important, 470 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,159 I would say, not kind of. This is very much why it's important 471 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:27,480 for Republicans their voters who are putting them in office and say, okay, 472 00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:31,320 we need you to write this ship. And a big part of writing that 473 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:38,280 does mean taking like giving a punch to the other side and what like. 474 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,840 I'll just give you example. What I was a proponent, and I say 475 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,800 this in all sincerity, was when Republicans take back the House, file articles 476 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:53,000 of impeachment, call them the impeachment just for kicks, the impeachment of Joe 477 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,280 Biden, just for kicks, because you're The point is to show you know, 478 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,639 we can do this too, and if you're gonna make this process so 479 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,480 stupid, we can just show you how stupid it gets. Okay, the 480 00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:08,079 next time, next owner is of like, when Joe Biden gets out office, 481 00:35:08,119 --> 00:35:12,760 assuming he's still you know, around and alive, find some Republican attorney 482 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,320 general, throw it, throw some charges at him, just throw him through 483 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,039 the wringer, just like you did with it. Because because we can do 484 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:20,840 it too. And why is that important. It's not just important so we 485 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,159 can have an endless back and forth. It's just to show you this can 486 00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:28,039 happen to you. This is this is where you've brought us. You know, 487 00:35:28,199 --> 00:35:30,920 you've made it stupid. You've actually made this stupid. You've trivialized the 488 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,519 process that we have that it's supposed to be for very very serious things. 489 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,400 That's and we have these understandings, agreements, we we we we should actually 490 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,079 look at each other and think we're acting in honesty with each other. I'm 491 00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:49,280 going to assume the best in you. Maybe maybe I didn't get my way, 492 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,079 but the voters chows otherwise. Maybe better luck to me next time. 493 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,079 But instead, you know, you have Democrats who just say, you know, 494 00:35:55,320 --> 00:36:00,119 we're not playing games here. In Republicans, you got too many Republicans 495 00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:02,320 like the Mike Johnson people, like some others like I don't want to name 496 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:07,000 them, but you know the Republicans who say, you know, we don't 497 00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:08,719 want to be as bad as they are, We don't want to make this 498 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,440 a tit for tat every time. Well, no, that's important. You 499 00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:15,760 actually do need to do that. Not for the sake of making you know, 500 00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:19,320 rubbing my sores, because you know you came after me. It's not 501 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,039 for that purpose. It's just to show you this can happen, This can 502 00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:24,559 happen to you just the same we can show you just how bad this gets, 503 00:36:24,639 --> 00:36:28,840 we can show you how cheap everything can get. Where it's up to 504 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,360 both sides. It can't just be up to one side who upholds, you 505 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:38,400 know, the dignity of the process, the sanctity of democracy. Trump is 506 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:44,000 going to have a press conference tomorrow. So again we're taping this on Thursday 507 00:36:44,039 --> 00:36:46,119 evening, within an hour of the verdict coming out. But we now know 508 00:36:46,159 --> 00:36:49,840 Trump is going to do a press conference tomorrow, so some of you may 509 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,360 be listening to this as the press conference is imminent or has already happened. 510 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,599 Eddie. The reason I found that anecdote to be poigned, I was thinking 511 00:36:55,599 --> 00:37:00,719 as you were talking, actually made me think about this that if you are 512 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,320 an average Republican voter, and just to put my own biases on the table, 513 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,079 I've seen a lot of people reacting, you know, con Carol, 514 00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:10,840 who are really like tweeted. You know, I wouldn't have I think he 515 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,400 said something like I wasn't a big fan of Trump, but now I would 516 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:19,480 crawl over broken glass to vote for him. I don't find this, and 517 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,960 maybe some of my colleagues will laugh at me for this. It's not like 518 00:37:22,039 --> 00:37:27,360 the most animating thing to me. I just I think it's insane and outrageous, 519 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,679 but it's not for me. I just there are so many different things. 520 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,719 I feel like it's part of something that's insane and outrageous. It is 521 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:38,639 a big animating issue. But for most Republican voters, this is animating because 522 00:37:38,639 --> 00:37:43,559 it feels like it could happen to them. And so to see that in 523 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:49,000 Washington, d C. You have people who are supposed to be the tip 524 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,199 of the spear that are supposed to be working on behalf of the Speaker of 525 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:58,840 the House of the United States representatives, representatives where the people who represent the 526 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,079 rest of their district, other people, the American people that their constituents, 527 00:38:04,519 --> 00:38:10,920 this Mike Johnson is from Louisiana, that his staff is as this president shattering 528 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,599 verdict is being read. You know, I don't know what they could do 529 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:20,880 about it, but you'd think that there would be fury and anger beyond slinking 530 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:27,360 into a bar steps from the Capitol like it's any other Thursday in recess. 531 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,119 And I just was thinking about that juxtaposition in my own head as you were 532 00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:34,599 talking. I was like, as the sort of person before I knew how 533 00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:40,039 Washington worked, that was just an average American in Wisconsin. That is the 534 00:38:40,159 --> 00:38:46,599 kind of thing that I would find maddening. Yeah, no, I agree 535 00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:52,280 with you. I think our boss Molly Hemingway has been writing, has been 536 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,400 doing, has been tweeting like crazy about this, rightfully, So just like, 537 00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:59,199 what are what is the Republican leadership doing today about any of this? 538 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,320 What? Like? You know, I think even even the people who showed 539 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,760 up on behalf of Trump at one of those press conferences, like one of 540 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:12,679 them was Vivid Brahmaswami, who's not elected, he's not he's never served in 541 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,000 any official capacity, and yet you know, and I appreciate him being there. 542 00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:21,719 He's such an articulate guy and like and was like a total star during 543 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,360 their primaries and also he continues to be with his podcast and other things. 544 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:30,880 But you know, where where is Like I think Mike Johnson did show up, 545 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,480 But why is this not a day in and day out thing and everything 546 00:39:34,519 --> 00:39:39,039 that should But you know, tomorrow, if if Ukraine needs money, we 547 00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:46,000 will have another robust weekend. We'll have another robust weekend of foreign policy packages. 548 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:52,559 It's just the priorities of Republicans is so screwed up, and I don't 549 00:39:52,639 --> 00:39:58,239 maybe maybe, maybe The truth is that they actually just don't understand how the 550 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,400 judicial system is is working on behalf of Democrats right now. And I don't 551 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,679 mean obviously the entire thing, but I mean the way they learned to work 552 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,039 it. They've learned to find the venues they need, the judges they want, 553 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,519 the attorney generals who have made the promises of their campaign. Yep, 554 00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:15,159 I'll do it. And if I fail, what difference does it make? 555 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:21,760 What difference does it make? If Alvin Braggett failed, it was it cost 556 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,199 him nothing. His reputation's just the same. He probably would win reelection. 557 00:40:25,519 --> 00:40:30,800 It doesn't matter. They don't They like Democrats have got that game on lock. 558 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,400 And yet Republicans just seem, well, that's just democracy, that's just 559 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,360 the way it goes. How do we make a difference. I don't know 560 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:43,719 if you know the answer. We'll talk about it another podcast. Well, 561 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,719 you know, before we rap otty, it is true, our colleague was 562 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:52,280 correct that Bragg had begun speaking actually in Manhattan. Let's go through a little 563 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:57,119 bit of what he said before we wrap. He thanked the jury and said, 564 00:40:57,159 --> 00:41:02,119 quote, their service is literally the cornerstone of our judicial system. Twelve 565 00:41:02,159 --> 00:41:06,480 everyday New Yorkers, and of course our alternates, her testimony from twenty two 566 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,360 witnesses, including former current employees of the defendant, media executives, book publishers, 567 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:15,400 custodians of records, and others. That's what he said, and he 568 00:41:15,519 --> 00:41:19,960 continued, their model public servants. This is his prosecution team. This is 569 00:41:20,679 --> 00:41:27,199 in response to what he said was their service. He said, their model 570 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,280 public servants. And I am proud and humbled to serve side by side with 571 00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:36,599 them. And he added that their professionalism and tegrity and dedication and service is 572 00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:38,960 that they embodied all of those values. And then he said he did not 573 00:41:39,199 --> 00:41:44,480 know if he will request a prison sentence for Donald Trump. He said, 574 00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:46,920 the judge scheduled sentencing for July eleventh. We will speak in court at that 575 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,280 time. We also said a motion schedule. Will speak as we have done 576 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:55,760 throughout this preceding. That's all what Bragg just had to say. It's the 577 00:41:55,760 --> 00:42:00,159 press conference as we're speaking is actually not over yet. That seems to be 578 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,880 the main takeaway so far, Eddie, any response to what Bragg said just 579 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:08,559 then, I'll just be looking forward to MSNBC's Joy and Read to come on 580 00:42:08,679 --> 00:42:14,760 TV and say They're the first person to get a conviction was a black man. 581 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,480 And look how special that is because I know that that's that's like so 582 00:42:19,559 --> 00:42:23,599 important to the left and Democrats, And I think what I would say is 583 00:42:23,639 --> 00:42:29,760 that's this isn't over. It's not over. The consequences are going to be 584 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,960 so they're going to last forever. And what if they think this is a 585 00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:39,760 win, think again, think again. Well, yeah, I mean I 586 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,960 agree with that in a number of different ways. I mean, I think 587 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,559 it could prove to be true in a number of different ways. We just 588 00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:47,639 we don't know where this is going to go. Robert F. Kennedy Junior 589 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,480 said that it was I think he said something it was the abuse of the 590 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,480 justice system, or note was being used to divide people. That's what RFK 591 00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:59,039 Junior said, which I used to think is a pretty good reaction for somebody 592 00:42:59,119 --> 00:43:01,960 running on a third party ticket. Byron York in the Washington Examiner, great 593 00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,440 reporter, especially on this law fair beat you should subscribe to Byrons Oh my 594 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,679 goodness, his Washington Examiner newsletter. He says a real question Alvin Brack just 595 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:16,119 now at the press conference, many people said the prosecution was masterful and flawless. 596 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:22,639 I just like to know how you feel. Many people are saying it's 597 00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:25,199 like a Trump quote, right, like they always inadvertently are the mirror image 598 00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:30,559 of Donald Trump. Many people are saying you are the greatest president. I'd 599 00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:34,519 like to know what you think about that. It's just what they did, 600 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,639 even though this is somebody who is now currently getting absolutely torn apart by people, 601 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,960 reasonable people, not just hacks, on both sides of the political spectrum 602 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,960 and in between, everywhere in between. That's not to say everybody is reacting 603 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,639 to this with horror, because a lot of partisans are happy about it, 604 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:52,639 and I'm sure there's some partisans on the right who were going to be upset 605 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,239 no matter what, even if it had been fair blah blah blah, which 606 00:43:55,239 --> 00:44:00,320 it wasn't. Thirty four convictions felony conviction, but of course it was only 607 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:06,480 a felony because it was allegedly in the furtherance of some crime that Donald Trump 608 00:44:06,559 --> 00:44:10,760 was not charged with. Right the right, So you can be convicted of 609 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:19,639 falsifying records in furtherance of another crime. That other crime was allegedly campaign finance 610 00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:24,679 violation, which is how you trumpet up to a felony it's a felony to 611 00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:30,280 violate campaign finance a loan that way. So the question here is, I 612 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,920 just like to know how you feel about all the people saying your your work 613 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,039 was masterful and flawless, even though this is a guy who's you know, 614 00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:45,199 if you're talking to actual like sane analysts who are not hacks, are not 615 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:52,400 in some sort of like MSNBC sealed echo chamber where uh, the instead of 616 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:57,119 water, it's just chardonnay in the taps. Uh, you are are not 617 00:44:57,159 --> 00:45:01,320 going to ask that question. I mean that is just insane. Yeah, 618 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:07,079 I think that Alvin Brad, I don't know this whole We're in this weird 619 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,320 and this has not been it's not new as with these trials. We're in 620 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:16,599 this weird thing where like the dumbest, the absolute dumbest, demonstrably dumb people 621 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:21,159 end up in these positions of power. And yet the media, if you 622 00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:25,360 can say the right thing about Donald Trump and his supporters, they will turn 623 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:32,559 you into an absolute god, a sex symbol, a revolutionary figure. And 624 00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:38,239 it's just very like I think that you know, they have some wins, 625 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,840 they have some short term gains. I think that what we're gonna see Is. 626 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,360 As this plays along, it's it's gonna be like kind of like the 627 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,320 same thing I would say with like the Me Too movement, It's going to 628 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,920 have an adverse effect. They're gonna people who say, you know, this 629 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:57,320 is I I was with you for a while, kind of like the black 630 00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:00,760 lives Lives Matter stuff. I was with you right up until you said I 631 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,400 need to give up my job, that I need to give you money out 632 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:07,840 of my pocket, and the statues right yeah, like and started, and 633 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:09,719 then you came to my house and like spray, like you know, graffitied 634 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:14,440 it. I think that that we're gonna see a very similar effect. I 635 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:19,000 think we're only at the beginning. I think we've already seen this whole thing. 636 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,719 You know, even with the conviction. Even with the conviction, Okay, 637 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,880 okay, that's a win right for them, But you know, I 638 00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,159 think he's made a complete ass out of himself. The funny will Is stuff 639 00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:35,880 in Georgia has kind of done the same thing as that continues. Uh, 640 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,800 the prosecutors who have who have been shown to tamper with evidence in the Florida 641 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:43,840 case. I know there's the other fourth one is in Washington. We'll see 642 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,599 what happened there that that might be the only well the judge, I think 643 00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:50,639 is the one who's there that's going to do herself in. But everyone who's 644 00:46:50,679 --> 00:46:52,760 paying attention is going to look at that and be like, uh, you 645 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,079 know, you might call that a win, but that that makes me look 646 00:46:57,159 --> 00:47:00,360 down on everything about you and about our own system. So you know, 647 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:05,840 they might call that a win with the further erosion of this great country. 648 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:07,880 And maybe that's the point. Maybe that's the point. I don't know, 649 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:13,280 but I will say that the Donald Trump team, they are they are putting 650 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,239 up a fight, and there's a lot to be said about that. It 651 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,440 blows my mind. I will just say this one real, one quick thing, 652 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:23,639 real quick, that there have been people who have been driven to alcoholism, 653 00:47:24,159 --> 00:47:29,840 drugs, and suicide under far less pressure, and this dude comes out 654 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,000 and just says, I'm still going, I'm still running, I plan on 655 00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:40,519 winning. And I find that really funny and remarkable and inspiring. Eddie. 656 00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:45,079 I'm glad to know that you are personally inspired. I don't I said that 657 00:47:45,079 --> 00:47:46,920 in no way that was kind of mocking, But I'm only amused because I 658 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,920 didn't know you were going to go in such an emotional direction just now. 659 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,679 I do think it's a fair point though, that you know, Trump for 660 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:59,480 whatever reason. I mean, the guy is just a machine, you know, 661 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:01,519 no matter what you think about him, he's like up. It sleeps 662 00:48:01,519 --> 00:48:07,039 like four hours a night and is up just like trash posting and keeping on, 663 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:14,199 keeping on constantly. And you know, a good probably that's a good 664 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,800 place to wrap it, because this is, you know, clearly going to 665 00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:22,000 be fought tooth and nail. And to go back to that Paul Sperry tweet, 666 00:48:22,039 --> 00:48:24,760 he says, you know Trump's not gonna go to Rikers before the election. 667 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,960 That does sound accurate to me. And I don't know what's going to 668 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,760 happen in one direction or the other. I genuinely don't have a prediction. 669 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,719 All I'll say is don't I don't put it past them to find a way 670 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,400 to make sure that Trump does go to Rikers, because it's essentially what they 671 00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,159 did in rigging the trial. And don't take my word for it, take 672 00:48:44,199 --> 00:48:47,960 prosecutor Andy McCarthy. Anti Trump prosecutor Andy McCarthy's word for it. In National 673 00:48:49,039 --> 00:48:52,440 Review, he basically wrote the fix is in in an op bed. He's 674 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,920 been covering this trial very closely, so I'll leave it at that, Eddie. 675 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,840 And lastly, I just wanted to say your point about it being like 676 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:05,119 Me Too movement with the Black Lives Matter movement really really, really good point. 677 00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:07,679 I think you should actually write a piece about that, because it's such 678 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:14,000 an accurate comparison, because Trump is such a cultural phenomenon, not merely political. 679 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:19,159 It's not merely about sort of catching table economics. There's is such a 680 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:24,280 magnet for vibes or a mirror or you know what's the better. I'm struggling 681 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:29,000 for metaphors here. I'm mixing all of them together in a beautiful jambalaya. 682 00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:32,719 But he's a he really is a reflection of the vibes, and it's he's 683 00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:38,400 something that people just project the vibes onto and in a way that's almost trans 684 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:44,000 political. Obviously has major political consequences, but I think that is such a 685 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,519 smart parallel and I hope you write that piece, Eddie Scary. We'll do 686 00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:51,559 my best. Thank you, Thank you for that, Emily, Eddie Scary 687 00:49:51,639 --> 00:49:54,639 my colleague. He is d C correspondent at The Federalist. I tease the 688 00:49:54,639 --> 00:49:58,440 little personal announcement at the end of the show that we taped earlier today, 689 00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:00,719 kind of on Thursday. That will wait until Monday for this breaking news. 690 00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:06,360 We will see you all back here at the Federalist Radio Hour soon. Eddie, 691 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,599 thanks for joining us. Thanks. I'm Emily Dashinski, culture editor here 692 00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:13,679 at the Federalist Radio Hour. We'll be backward soon up more. Until then, 693 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:34,119 be the lovers of freedom and anxious for the fry.