Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. My goodness,
being Frank Frank, where the only way to be is Frank. Well everyone,
and welcome to being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank.
I'm your host, Frank Leblona, and i'd like to thank you for
joining us on what we like to call the Intelligent Conversation podcast, where no
conversations out of bounds and all points of view are welcome. We are recording
live to tape on the eighteenth of July, so you have some relevance as
to what's going on while we're reporting it. In the nearly two and a
half years since Russia's brutal attack on Ukraine, one reporter has committed himself from
the very beginning to make sure the world knows of the Ukrainian people's inspirational resistance
against Vladimir Putin's brutal tyranny. He remains there as one of the few Western
voices reminded us that the war continues. The attacks on civilians continue, but
so does the fight to resist, and it will never stop until the Russian
invaders are forced out of their beloved Ukraine and our guest has vowed to remain
there until that day happens. He has been a frequent contributor to Being Frank,
often taking great risks to join us with his intelligent conversation and first hand
live accounts of the situation on the front lines in Ukraine. Please welcome back
the intrepid mister Philitner. Phil. Thank you so much for joining us.
I know it's not easy, rolling blackouts, etc. So let's start there.
What is the current situation where you are? Where are you? What's
happening? Well, I'm in the Kapalu Kiev. We're suffering from, as
you mentioned, the rolling blackouts, and we get about six hours of electricity
a day blocked off in two hour segments, usually in the morning, one
in the morning, one in the afternoon or evening, and then uh they'll
do one in the middle of the night. And I think that's just basically
to you know, to take advantage of the relative lack of usage at those
at those kind of hours. But you know, it's it rules your life.
You have to you you schedule your life, whether you're doing you know,
well, in my case, like uploading video or or something, you
know, where I need the Internet, and I only get you know,
during the during non UH electricity hours. I can only go off of a
you know, a mobile phone kind of UH Internet hotspot, which is you
know, insufficient or you know, it's something as mundane is doing laundry or
you know, whatever it is. Where you need electricity, you schedule your
life around it. But even then it affects you because you may need to
go shopping and you go up to a store and it's either closed or or
you know, it's not functioning fully, you know, no credit cards for
example, or using plastic because there's no signal. They've the Russians have succeeded
in greatly hampering the life of your average Ukrainian. And that's in addition to
the near constant ARAID sirens and the attacks going on. So this, this
has not let up at all as far as what's happening on the ground here
in Ukraine. But there is still absolutely no prevailing attitude of letting it force
Ukraine to the negotiating table prematurely. In fact, quite the op it,
they're determined not to start any kind of substance substantive peace talks unless you know
there is unless there is a just piece in a way that they look at
it, and that means not incentivizing Russia to come back. So it's been
rough with the electricity issue certainly, and we've been going through a heat wave,
so no AC or anything like that. I wanted to mention that perspective
here in New York and you had and I do follow your posts and talk
a little bit about your podcast and on the edge too as time allows.
But you know, it was brutally hot in here in New York, and
I hope you can help us to understand from a perspective standpoint of view,
things that we take for granted. It's equally as hot in Ukraine right now,
and you posted it was near ninety five degrees fahrenheit, which was around
We hit one hundred and five yesterday. Wow, that's one hundred and five
with a please help us to understand that. Again, things that most of
us, certainly not all of us in this country. There are poor people
who still unfortunately live without air conditioning. But it's another one of the things
that we just it it's always going to be for there for us. We
flip a switch and it's there. We put the water on and it's there
how to try to make us understand how how it is to live without those
things that we take for granted. Well, it's just constant deprivation. You
know, it can go to uh you know, you you you choose,
you know, you can't open your refrigerator door. Anybody who's gone through a
natural disaster or a hurricane or a flood or something like that will will understand
this. You It's it sifts down to your basic standard of living, your
basic life daily experience, your daily life experience. I mean, as I
say, you can't, I can't. You know, for eighteen hours of
the day, I'm reluctant to open up my freezer door because all that cold
will come out and uh it will, you know, things will start to
faw sing, things will start to spoil. It's it sounds ridiculous, but
it is. It goes down to those basic, those very basic needs.
And you know, uh, you know, buying candles obviously, because you've
got no lights now right now it's so hot. You don't want to burn
a candle in your rooms. You know, you know it's you're you're going
on natural light. Uh. People live by their USB power banks. Uh,
you know, normally things that you carry around, uh with you and
your you know it's your you've got a purse or a sack or a bag
or something, you've got your little about. Well, these things are now
enormous. You know, this the their brain because we're not just using them
to charge our phones. We run our laptops off of them. We have
adapters so that we can run small electrical devices off of them, whether or
not you know, even as I say lights, just a wide range of
things, because there is the electrical grid has been devastated. And do in
no small part and and I you know, well look I'll just say it
the way it is, do a no small part to the GOP and to
Speaker Johnson. For seven months we did not get a single we didn't get
a new package. We had some trickling in basically done by the Pentagon and
not by the Senate. You know, for seven months there was no new
aid package. So they were rationing their ammunition and we just couldn't defend the
skies. And they hit some very the Russians hit some very key generator locations,
electrical generation locations, mostly thermo dynamic locations, and and that's still that's
deliberate film, but mostly to cause, to cause misery, to make it
even more difficult for the people of Ukraine. So it's tactical. It's also
strategic in it's probably more strategic than even that it is tactical. If people
understand military terms, right, I would think, yeah, I mean there's
well, there's no reason to do it. It is in essence of war
crime. There's no reason to do it. This is civilian infrastructure. It's
it's not justifiable what they're what they're attempting to do. But then they're also
they're also just straight up to rorizing the people of Ukraine. I mean not
this Monday past, but the prior Monday was a day of enorm you know,
extensive UH attacks and it included a child's oncology center here in Kiev.
There's no reason, there's no rhyme or reason to hit a children's cancer ward
and that's what they did. They did just that. It's it is,
you know, the seven months that Johnson delayed AID is a great stain on
on what is happening here because we didn't necessarily have to be like this.
And I don't know when we're going to return to any semblance of normality.
But it's it's you know it, they are the Russians are trying to make
life unbearable in Ukraine because they think they can force the Ukrainians to the table,
and they can't. They just can't. They have the you know it's
every Ukrainian with a few exceptions, is aware the fact that this is an
existential fight for them. You know, if they if they accept an unjust
peace, there will be more suffering. The Russians will be incentivized to come
back. They it will not end well for them. And in addition to
that, the stated goal of the Russians is to eradicate the idea of Ukraine
as a sovereign, independent, not only country, but culture. They want
to eradicate the Ukrainian culture. It is a genocide. It's it's one hundred
percent a genocide. The purpose is to destroy Ukraine and Ukrainians. But what
the Russians don't understand is that there they've crossed a rubicon here. They've they've
they've they've they've gone, you know, they've they've crossed a line in Ukraine
and they're never going to bend the knee to Moscow again. They're just never
going to do it. There's been too much blood, too much suffering,
too much harm, too much history, and the Ukrainians have just decided and
it's you know, no small bro because they're getting killed and they're getting being
terrorized, but they're just never ever going to be under Moscow's thumb again.
It would it's it's inconceivable. It really is the determination never to submit to
And the Russians only every time they bomba an apartment building or you know,
there are stories of you know, mass graves or something like that. Every
time those stories come out, and they come out with far too much frequency,
it just steals their result. They can they can never be brothers or
friends or in a partnership or an alliance with Moscow again. It's going to
take generations, if ever. And I want to talk a little bit more
about the morale, and I do want to talk about Speaker Johnson in the
future, Donald Trump to be nominated tonight, and his vice presidential nominee jd
Vance, who we know is no friend of Ukraine. I want to talk
about that in a bit, but since you brought it up too, before
we get to that, I want to talk a little bit about and you
mentioned how morale has not really waned, but there's been a tremendous amount of
physical suffering, as you've mentioned in terms of deprivation, but there's also the
emotional suffering. A lot of Ukrainian young people have been lost, particularly young
men, and it reminds me of there are certain situations even during the American
Civil War in the American South where entire villages and towns were virtually devoid of
young men because so many had been lost to the war and the long lasting
effects that can have on individuals but also society as a culture. How are
the Ukraine's dealing with it? And again, I don't want people to lose
sight of the fact of the tremendous loss that Ukraine has suffered in terms of
its its youth, its young people. Well, they're exhausted. We're all
exhausted. Anybody who lives in this country is exhausted. This is this is
incredibly taxing. And I'm and I can leave at any time I want to.
So I have that advantage that people who live here and make this you
know, this is their home, they can't as readily just pick up and
leave, although many have. It's it is. I say that morale is
still steadfast. It is, but there is exhausted, there's really bone tired,
weariness and just depression. I did about a year ago, I did
and I'm still in touch with them. I did a vlog with a suicide
prevention hotline and I'm still in touch with them. Occasionally, suicide is skyrocketing
because there's no future, there's no everything, there's no solid grounding upon which
to plant your feet, and when you're a young person, you're you're you
don't know what your future will hold, and so sadly, real serious depression
PTSD and suicide rates are are are going through the roof. Now you say
that there are a lot of young men that are that are disappearing from villages
and are sadly sacrificing everything. That is true, but there's also a large
number of middle aged men. This The dynamics of the Ukrainian military are different
than any other military I've ever experienced in my thirty some odd years of war
coverage, in that the older men are the ones that are going to the
front, that are volunteering and going to the front in disproportionate levels, not
completely obviously, but but it's I would you know, I don't want a
hazard. A guess I'm just gonna pull out of my hat. But there's
a huge percentage of men that remember the Soviet Union that may have you know,
maybe my age in their you know, late forties, fifties, and
even older sometimes who remember the Soviet Union, who remember what they went through
when they lived under Moscow's dominion, and they don't want their children or grandchildren
even to go through that. So there's you go to the front, and
more often than not, you see a lot of old, you know,
gray hair, wrinkly old men like you mean, frank doing it frankly right
now. But take our word for it. They can't. But I am
an old, wrinkly man. Yeah yeah, me too, me too.
But you know they can still they can still uh fire an artillery round,
or they can still you know, drive an ambulance or you know. Well,
that's a great point. But there's there's another thing about it, though,
and I'll explain, and it's important in the understanding why that is so.
Not only is it because they understand and they remember the Soviet Union and
they never want that to return here. But secondly, you have to understand
the demographics of Ukraine, because in the nineties and the aughts, this place
was chaotic as all get out. It was, it was corrupt, There
was no you know, there was no prosperity, there was no hope for
prosperity. It was you know, aftermath of the collapse of the Soviet Union,
and birth rates plummeted in the nineties and the Tutah and the early aughts,
so there aren't a lot of twenties, you know, mid twenty,
early thirties because it it just absolutely the birth rate absolut collapsed because people weren't
having kids. So yeah, I have to take it in the context of
Ukraine's recent history, but it's a very different front line than I have ever
experienced, and in no small measure because of these demograpt people were people were
shocked when you know, about three months ago, give or take, there
was a change in the mobilization law to include twenty five to twenty seven year
old and I remember talking to Westerners and they were like, well, why,
I mean that should have all that should have been you know where you
start from. And I and you know, I had to look into it
as to why it was and it's it's that it's the combination of older people
not wanting their their their children and grandchildren to grow up under Moscow's thumb.
And two they just simply aren't the young people to spare and the and the
country recognizes it. Somebody's going to have to rebuild this place after the war's
over. So it's a fascinating demographic but still nevertheless, I mean, the
important thing is you are right, there are far too many Ukrainians dying in
this war. And the graves, the graveyards, oh, Frank, it's
it's it's there's a graveyard in Levv and it's a it's a huge, huge
graveyard, part military, parts civilian. And when I first showed up here
two and a half plus years ago, when this full scale war began,
there was a field adjacent to the cemetery that used to be a parade ground
for Victory Day parades for commemorating in the Second World War. Well, they
tore that up and they started creating graves, and sadly, you know,
I saw the first grave, you know, the first you know, five
or six graves that were planted, you know, there were there were put
there. And now every time I go in and out, I go through
Poland, so I'll go through Leviv and the field is now three quarters the
way full, and that's two and a half years. It's they're just burying
so many Ukrainians and it's really rough. But again, they know what they're
fighting for, and it's not I mean, obviously it's difficult, and people
get angry and upset all the rest of it, and some of that anger
gets directed this way and that way. But at the end of the day,
the vast majority of Ukrainians, while they hate the cost and they're exhausted
of the war, it's it's it's existential. They can't stop fighting because if
they stop fighting, they get disappeared. This brings me to a maybe a
rhetorical question. And I'm sure you've heard of Project twenty twenty five. You
must be following what's going on in because there were certainly, yes, and
there are parallels obviously of the idea that free could be removed. And I
think about if that were to be implemented, would I have the courage at
my age and I'm pushing seventy years old to continue to speak out. Would
I have the ability to speak out and if I couldn't, would I have
the courage to fight, to continue to speak out even to the death as
these Ukrainians have you, what are some of your thoughts between knowing what's involved
in Project twenty twenty five and then we can lead into the whole platform of
the GOP and jagents and Johnson had said, why don't we take it from
there and lead right into that? Why not? Yeah, you know,
I've been you know, both of us veterans of the house that Murrow built.
I take my journalistic ethics very seriously. So this is not I am
not speaking as a journalist right now. I'm speaking as an America and I'm
speaking as an eyewitness to a criminal war in Russia, and that Russia is
committing here in Ukraine, a country that I love. So I'm going to
tell you straight up, this is you know, this is this is my
opinion, and this is where I this is where I'm coming from. The
GOP and Donald J. Trump and JD. Vance are all compromised by the
criminals, all of them, the entire the entire we have been attacked full
stop. America is under attack. It's the same war that is happening here
in Ukraine, but in America, the Russians have attacked our body politic,
our civilian our, our civic society, our judiciary, our press, our
industry. The corruption that has seeped out of Russia and has infected America is
not is not a byproduct of just criminal activity. It's an attack. They
are they are attacking our body politic. It happened in twenty sixteen, and
it's been happening ever since. Donald Trump is compromised. He is, I
don't know at what level. I don't know if he is you know,
willing, a willing participant, or if he just sees benefit from cooperating with
the Kremlin. Certainly, by now he's got to know that the Kremlin is
is engaged in information warfare in the United States, and he continues to,
you know, chuck along with that knowledge. It's it's disgraceful, it's traitorous
in my opinion. You know, this doesn't lobby that the Russians have been
doing. This isn't manipulation or kind of interference. This is an attack.
It's a full bore military operation. I mean that the the operation comes out
of the g r U and the Russian g R U is the equivalent of
our military intelligence. So it's not even like it's a civilian attack. It's
not like the CI. So when the CIA goes in and does you know,
some sort of coup or something in a Banana Republic, the CIA is
not an organ of the Department of Defense. It's it's it's our intelligence wing.
In the Russian attack on the United States is coming from the g r
U, which is their military intelligence. This cannot be overlooked anymore, and
it cannot be, in my opinion. Uh uh, you know, ignored
or or allowed to continue. Uh. We really have to have a public
I we you know again, now I'm falling back on my journalistic athlete.
I'm couching my answer here because it's you. I tread on careful ground here
because I don't want to be hyperbolic. I'm going to follow up on that,
but please continue. But certainly, but I one hundred percent believe that
we have to have There needs to be an open discussion from our intelligence community,
from our law enforcement community, from those in the know who are aware
of what the Russians are doing. It is long overdue that they come out
and say this has never stopped the GOP is complicit, if not, you
know, working in conjunction with the Russians, certainly the Trump camp. I
mean, for goodness sakes, we saw Paul Manifort on the floor of the
of the Republican you know conference, just last night. You know, Paul
Manifort, who was passing along opposition research from the GOP to the Russian ambassador.
We know this. It's not disputable, it's it's it is a fact
he did that. Victed. Yeah, so and there he is on the
on the floor of the of the of the conference. It's it is mind
blown. I'll tell you one quick thing before I let we turn this back
into a conversation instead of me just on a diatribe. I I, as
you know, as a journalist, I you know, made a lot of
contacts in the intelligence community. And I remember one time, it must have
been twenty eighteen or so something like that, I was spent. I was
back in the States and I went to go have dinner with a guy I
know in Homeland security and he pointed out to me that there was a in
the run up to the twenty sixteen election, there was a planned press conference
with all the intelligence the heads of all the intelligence agencies, and they were
going to come out and say Russia is engaged in information warfare and our elections
are being attacked. And the day that they planned this press conference put out
a a you know, a press statement, you know, right before they
were about to take to the podium, the Access Hollywood video dropped and all
the auction oxygen was sucked out of every newsroom, and nobody cared about the
fact that every intelligence agency and you know, military intelligence, d D all
the rest of it. We're saying, hey, we're being attacked by Russia,
and it went largely unnoticed. That is not a coincidence. That's not
you know, you know, it's Russia isn't just conducting war here. They're
conducting war around the globe. And it's it's it's hybrid war. It doesn't
necessary it's not necessarily always kinetic. By that, I mean people dying,
although bodies have as we all know, Russian body you know, bodies have
popped up of oligarchs, diplomats, you name it. There are lots of
you know, lots of dead Russians out there who uh, for one reason
or another, uh, we were silenced by the Kremlin. So This is
very complex, it's very dangerous, and I fear that if Donald Trump gets
a second do in the Oval Russia, will you know, Russia and other
autocracies around the world will only be in bolden. So it's it's not just
domestically that we have to worry about Donald Trump. It's it's also in a
global war with Russia, and if the Russians win, the American may not
survive it. And that's where I run into hyperbole. I recognize that I'm
deadly serious about well, a good point to be made here. Anybody who
knows me a little bit on social media knows my crazy sleep schedule and my
insomnia and off and up at two or three am New York time. But
there are certain advantages when you can get through the awful crap television that's offered
at that hour. Every once in a while you stumble into something worthwhile on
PBS and I caught two parts of a multi part series of the Rise of
Hitler and Nazi Germany. And people say, oh, that's perbole, and
you can't compare the two things. Well, I beg to differ. If
you watch and you learn and you listen, the similarities are so similar.
And one of the points that I think and I want you to expand on
a little bit is how the violence came after the media campaign. Okay,
there was a brilliant propaganda media campaign that convinced the German people that he was
right for the job. Okay, he was right for the people, so
they gave him everything until it was too late. Okay. If there's not
a lesson to be learned there, I don't know where. When you see
things like Project twenty twenty five and some of the future plans, particularly from
the Republican administration, I believe the parallels are striking. There was a deliberate
campaign of misinformation directed at hateful comments, particularly against as we know, Jews,
Gypsy's, intellectuals, etc. Anyone who opposed their point of view,
Okay, was squelched, and we see it happening today. And what's amazing
to me it seems like so many Americans are willing to go down that path.
And I don't understand it. Again, it may be a rhetorical thing,
but certainly your opinion is very valid considering what you've been through and where
you are now. Well yeah, I mean, well they're this, you
know this time they're they're doing they're doing the same thing that that Hitler did
do. So I don't think it's hyperbole, and I don't think and I
and I disagree that we need to turn a blind eye to it for fear
that it will aggravate or you know, heighten the tensions, uh between Americans
and the division. You know, when when you're stating what they themselves are
saying, that's not an attack on them, You're just saying, hey,
I'm pointing out that you're saying these are this is your plan, and it's
it's a pretty atrocious one from where I stand. And I you know,
it's the the war. This is the same war. It's the exact same
war. What is happening in the United States with Donald J. Trump and
the war here in Ukrainian's connected. It's autocracies trying to destroy the American project,
which is the cornerstone of democracy. I mean, thank god the Europeans
have pushed back on it recently, on on kind of autocratic uh, far
right parties and what have you, notably in France and in and in Britain
book Poland as well. Uh Uh, I'm very concerned. I'm deeply deeply
concerned because it's the same battle, and if we lose the battle at the
ballot box in the United States, the Ukrainians will will get it in the
neck next and and we will, we will. You know, jd Vance
is openly and this is the VP candidate has openly said, uh, nope,
I'm not going to support Ukraine anymore, which means, uh, you
know, we're the arsenal of liberty. Uh you know, are so called
Uh you know, without our industry, Ukraine's going to have a real tough
go at it. The Europeans are stepping up, but they're they're not you
know, they're not going to be a replacement. And certainly, you know,
it's better together. So I would say that the concern isn't just in
Ukraine. But obviously the Ukrainians are desperately concerned about a second Trump administration.
But I'm starting to get the perception that the entire European continent is now looking
at America and going, we can't rely on you anymore. And that's devastating.
People don't realize how there's our closest trading ally it is. It is
a security alliance that has that has protected Europe from wars that ultimately do draw
in the United States, as much as we tend not to want to be
drawn into these things because we think our oceans will protect us. Not anymore.
And if if if Ukraine is sacrificed to Moscow, Moscow will be emboldened,
it will it will expand its power. And I'm not saying that we're
going to see Russian tanks rolling down the streets of Warsaw or in Estonia or
Latvia, but they will be emboldened and they will destroy liberal democracies wherever they're
able to do it. And because it doesn't suit their their their position on
the global stage, they they want to act as an autocracy with no checks,
no restraint, power for power's sake. You know, I have a
bigger stick than you, So you're going to do what I tell you to
do. Is the mentality of Moscow, and we are at an inflection point.
This war is the same war that we are having. Uh you know,
certainly a let's not call it a war in the United States because I
don't want to contribute to that temperature. But let's say the conflict and the
strife and the the the the chaos and the just the unprecedented erosion of our
civil liberties, of our civil society, of our disco a discourse that is
being aggravated by Russia. I don't know exactly where and how, but it's
happening. They have never stopped since twenty sixteen. If you don't think that
right now they are trying to divide us and trying to undermine the United States
or any Western liberal democracy, then your naive. And it's this. This
is the point. This is the pointy edge of the stick. This is
where people are fighting and dying in very real terms. Blood, treasure,
all the rest of it is being spent here. But it is also a
war that is happening in the West and notably, most notably in America with
Donald Trump. It's the same thing. Russia is desperate because they know that
if they lose this war, which I think I think by the way,
they are still going to lose this war regardless of what happens in November,
but it'll be far worse if Trump gets back in. But ultimately, there
is still going to be a Ukraine, and there's still going to be a
Ukraine that includes, you know, places like Odessa and access to the Black
Sea and Harkiev and some other major industrial towns, and that's going to exist
at the end of this war. But if we don't actually support Ukraine and
beat the Russians, the Moscow will be in Bolden. And conversely, Moscow
knows that if we are able to push them out and a strong liberal democracy
and a sovereign state in Ukraine is able to grow, it will it will
harm Russia deeply because they their sense of self is so tied into empire that
this will be a completely new phase in their history because Russia will no longer
uh be Uh an empire and will no longer have colonies because this is the
cornerstone, this colony, Ukraine is the cornerstone, as the as the Great
uh uh is Harvard or Yale professor Timothy Snyder uh you know puts it is
that Russia sees itself as an empire, and and without Ukraine it is not
an empire anymore. And it's gonna have to look in the mirror and do
some very hard transitions and and changes that it wants. It should have done
at the collopse of the Soviet Union, but it kicked the can down the
road with Putin this this nobody gets somebody's gonna win in this war, and
somebody is gonna lose, either the West and liberal democracy and Ukraine will win
or Moscow will win, and autocracies will be emboldened and we will and sadly,
with Donald Trump and the Oval, we'll just become another autocratic state,
the dream of our forefathers, our founding fathers. You know, it's the
old Ben Franklin thing. You know, what kind of government is he?
Have you given us, mister Franklin, a republic if you can keep it,
if you can keep it. Yes, that's very fair, Yes,
yeah, very famous saying. And I'm definitely afraid that Vladimir Putin knows this
very well, and he's found a fellow traveler in Donald Trump. If not
a useful idiot. We have to I'm sorry to be completely partisan here,
frank, but we have to reject him. We have got to vote,
we've got to cast our ballot, and we have to reject Donald Trump because
from my perspective, the man is working for the Kremlin, and we don't.
I've lived in Russia. We do not want to live like they live
in Russia. We don't great perspective. As always, my very special guest
is Phil Igner. He's with us live. We are live to tape.
He is in Ukraine again at great personal limited power, you can make yourself
a target. We know these things still and with that in mind too,
And you mentioned something, both of us, being experienced journalists and PTSD,
we always tend to think that you know soldiers and you know, but we're
human beings also, and we try to approach things with a workman's eye,
if you will. And I always felt in tough assignments, as long as
I concentrated on the assignment, I was okay. It was afterwards, in
the quiet times, when you realized what you had seen, in what you
had witnessed. And the example, I spent almost two weeks at ground zero
from September twelfth on, and while I was working, the enormity of it
all didn't strike me at that moment. But the day after the day or
the day after I actually got home from assignment, and in a quiet moment
I cried for a solid hour because it overwhelmed me what I had just witnessed,
the importance within the world, so the tremendous loss of human life and
it affected me, and you know what has to affect you as well.
And you've been in I've been in hurricanes and stuff, and you've covered many
more wars and seen atrocities. You cannot be not affected, if you will
forgive the double negative. But how does phil Ititner then deal with this day
after day, the stress of it, the PTSD, how do you deal
with it? Well? Well, so I I actually before this war started,
was in the process of retiring, as a lot of us did during
the coronavirus. I did a lot of reflection and reassessed my life at you
know, fifties plus, and I said, I don't I don't want to
surround myself with pain and suffering anymore. I'm done. I don't want I
don't want my time on this planet to be completely consumed with just pain,
suffering, trauma, you know, constantly. And so I was in the
process of leaving and maybe starting a production company. I still, you know,
use my skill set to you know, do documentaries about Yosemite or the
Pacific Coast Highway or the Great Lakes or you know, take your pick,
something nice, get you out in the sun. Well. And also and
also just had you know, about positivity as opposed to the pain and the
suffering I witnessed. But I was on my dawn in twenty fourteen when this
whole kind of freedom and sovereignty movement in Ukraine's started, and the Ukrainian people
on Mi Down Square, Independent Square. You begged me often, you know,
don't please, don't They're gonna come back. We know the Russians,
they will not let us go. They're going to come back. Please please
don't. You know our history has a long history of betrayals. Please don't
let that happen again. And so after COVID here I am trying to transition
into something more positive and life affirming, and along time this and I said,
well, you know, I made a promise and I've got to go.
And plus I love this country. And also in addition to that,
I mean I am still continuously humbled by the strength of the Ukrainian people.
There is positivity here amongst all, amongst all the pain and the suffering,
because they're really, they really are fighting for countless generations stretching out into the
future, not to live under Moscow's thumb. And we don't want that either,
trust me, Frank, we don't want to live and like the Russians
do. Uh, and that's what they're aiming for there. They don't want
We thought at the end of the Cold War, when the when the wall
came down, our system would would go eat Obviously, you know, capitalism
is it is, you know, it's you know, it's a functioning system
that you know that'll go east. But more importantly, the rule of law
and democracy will go east. Well, no, that's not what happened.
What happened is the poison of the autocracy and the corruption that had been stewing
in Russia during the Soviet Union and frankly before then came flooding out. When
the wall came down. We thought we would go east. What happened was
their poison came west. We we have to draw the line in the sand
and say and say no more so. I'm glad to be here standing with
these people and it and it humbles me, and it does I am constantly
reminded of the strength and the goodness in people when when I see some of
the stuff happening here. But you're right, this is this is and I've
you know, this is extremely difficult, being surrounded by pain and suffering it
is difficult. I lost a very very good friend, a cameraman, Pierre
Zachowski Uh from Fox at the very beginning of the war, was killed and
Pierre, Pierre and I were we we're uh, we were carpool buddies in
London. I I he was one of my dearest friends. He was a
very sweet soul and a wonderful cameraman, good guy to have on the road.
You know, it's not the first time I've lost the people I lost,
you know, Paul Douglas and he Rock, most notably it's CBS colleague.
I mean, it's not the first time. It's not the first time
I've lost friends and colleagues to war. Now, this is this is I'll
be I'll be brutally honest with you right now. I'm I'm deferring. Uh.
And I know that's not healthy. Uh, I'm not. I've been
doing this long enough to know when I need to stop and you know,
turn off everything and shut down and get some downtime and just reflect. But
you know, it's it's a constant here. As long as you're in Ukraine,
there is no safe place. As long as you're in Ukraine, you're
constantly surrounded by pain and suffering. And it is not unusual to just be
walking down the street and you know you're crossing, you're walking past men missing
limbs, You're you're walking past people on phones openly on the street weeping,
and you know what it's about. You don't have to guess. It's not
like they just broke up with their boyfriend. These people are weeping because something
awful has happened to them. Their life has inevitably, you know, has
irrevocably changed because of this god awful war, and that affects you. Of
course it affects you. But my mission is to try and keep this in
the news cycle. And I'm doing my best with the podcast and all the
rest to it, Uh I do. I'm not reckless with my mental high
I've seen people break down. You and I both know people you know in
the business who who who deferred for too long or they try to get into
self destructive and get into self destructive behavior, and it it, you know,
you you can't ignore it, you can't stuff it down and lock it
away. But right now I have I'm I got my eyes on the prize
and sort of thing, and I'm putting my head down and doing the work.
But but I am constantly aware that I'm no good to anybody if I
if I break down and and and lose it, you know, if it
if it all, if it all breaks down. But it's hard, man,
it's really really hard. Yes, I feel you. But it's important
too, It's really important. And I'm ashamed that the news that the Western
media is not here in greater numbers. I don't think that this war has
been covered properly. I don't think it's comprehensive enough. I don't think the
West understands, certainly not Americans what's at stake here. Europeans are increasingly becoming
aware of it, and some have always been aware of it. But our
news media, and as a veteran of the news media and the news industry,
I feel I have sufficient knowledge to cast this criticism. We're not doing
our job here, man, We're not. The news media is letting the
audience and they don't Americans don't understand because of this failure of the media to
understand that this fight is our fight. It already is. As I already
explained, our body politic is under attack. Moscow is all sectors of the
United states undermining us, some to great levels, some to very small levels,
will never know about. It happens in the shadows, but it is
happening, and we are not explaining to the American people in particular how desperately
the important that this war is, and how this is an inflection point between
autocracy and liberal democracy, and it's being fought here, you know, the
hot warriors being fought here, and we have to support him. So I
feel justified, and i'm i'm I am willing to take the hit, as
it were, to suffer the slings and errors of the potential PTSD and the
emotional turmoil because this is so damned important. Well, you mentioned great journalism
and great journalists, and I know you want to take a moment. We
just lost one of the great ones. And Tom Fenton a great, one
of the great international Many people consider him the father of international reporting. I
know you had some exposure and worked with him. I know we work together
in the London Bureau. Legendary. Please tell us, please tell us a
little bit about he was a wonderful journalist. He was a great, a
great broadcast journalist. He was he could package and his writing was lovely and
his understanding of of people and of the human condition in terrible situations often was
admirable. And he was a He was a soft hearted or not soft heart,
but kind hearted gentleman. Uh. He was a true gentleman. Uh
in in a generation of journalists that I don't think we're going to see again.
I think those those days are gone. But he will be missed.
Tom was a Tom was a great guy. He was a great journalist.
I learned a lot from him and it was always a pleasure to spend time
with him. And he was he was. He was a lovely man and
he lived an amazing life. And you know, if it were up to
me, I would have given him many many more years later. But in
his ninety four years he did something. Well, let's talk about another amazing
journalist, Phil Hittner. I know you have your podcast, you have your
vlogs. Tell us a little bit about how people can stay with you and
stay informed with what's going on in Ukraine. In a minute or so,
we have left, Well, I've got the studio. I've got this studio
here that I created in keV and we're going to be doing a weekly interview
show. It'll be released pretty much on Sunday. We might be changing the
time, but every Sunday we're can be coming from this studio talking to people
who have a unique perspective, primarily Ukrainians, to give Ukraine a voice,
and we've had some great guests on so far. We just had the wonderful
member of the Ukrainian Parliament, kier Rudik here, and I'll leave you with
one of the things that she said to me in that interview, and you
can find it on YouTube. It's got its own channel on the Edge with
Philip Ititner on YouTube, or just on my personal channel which is Philip Ititner
one L and Philip Tutti's and Itner all one word on YouTube. And then
we're going to be putting out as audio podcasts as well. We just haven't
gotten around to how we're going to do that format, but anyhow, I
will leave you with this with Our last episode was with Kiera Rudik, who
is a parliamentarian and opposition parliamentarian in Ukraine's Rada, their parliament, and she
told me the story of the day that the full scale invasion happened February twenty
fourth, twenty twenty two. As many deputies of the Parliament rushed down to
the body, to the actual parliament building as they could possibly get, and
they got some three hundred out of four hundred deputies there. The security forces
said, this is potentially a target. Bombs were falling everywhere. There was
massive attacks on the capitol here, and the security guy said, we don't
know if this the parliament is going to get hit. It's potentially a target.
We give you ten minutes, no more. But because they believe in
democracy and in the rule of law, they went into this body and into
this structure, and they voted on the installation of martial law, which would
allow them to fight Vladimir Putin, an existential threat. She is an opposition
party member, and she said as they were signing and voting, they were
weeping and singing the Ukrainian national anthem. And on that day they decided that
until the war was over, until Russia was pushed out of their lands,
that they would not fight political battles in public, that they would present a
unified front to an existential threat in the form of Vladimir Putin. And as
I watch the dysfunction within the Democratic Party in the United States and the infighting
over the fear of Donald Trump that is causing this anxiety and this fracturing because
of course we're all afraid about Donald Trump coming back to the Oval office.
But take it from the Ukrainians who did this while their city was being bombed.
They said, we're going to stow all of that until the enemy,
the existential threat is done. Democrats have got to unite. I don't know
how it's gonna happen. I hope I have my own hopes as to how
that will happen. But personally I hope that it will be Joe Biden.
Then he won't be pushed aside. But what troubles me is the infighting when
we are facing an existential threat. So take it from Kira Rudik, a
Ukrainian parliamentarian. You either stand together or you're gonna fall individually. We remember
what Franklin said, we should hang together or we will certainly hang separately.
A little double entendre there, but we know what he meant. Phil Ititner,
you will always be an inspiration to me and to hopefully to my audience
here at being frank What a pleasure to have you. Please be safe,
I know it sounds trite and people say it all the time, but it
comes from the heart from us. Thanks so much for joining us. Hey,
don't go anywhere you We're gonna take a quick break. When we come
back. We've got some great music. A relative and a filial love it.
It's called a Prayer for Ukraine. It was composed by Peter Danish.
He's going to join us talk a little bit about how we created it and
his singing partner, Rita Harvey Beautiful Broadway Store will help him sing it.
And we'll have all of that when we come back. After these brief commercial
messages. This is Being Frank. I'm your host, Franklebono. Please don't
go anywhere yet. Thanks again, Phil Hudson Riverradio dot com. This is
Hudson Riverradio dot com, your local Rockland County station, Hudsonriverradio dot com.
Welcome back to Being Frank, the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. Thanks for sticking with
us. I'm your host, Frank Lebuono. You know we bring you a
fresh topic every week and we stream from Hudson River Radio, which is located
in beautiful and historic Stony Point, New York. Neil Richter, the Mailman,
is our engineer. I call him that because he always delivers. But
remember, you can catch any Being Frank anywhere you get your favorite podcasts.
That includes Apple, Spotify and all the rest. And because Being Frank is
archived, you can listen to any of our programs anytime you like. You
can find a link to Being Frank on the Hudson River Radio Facebook page or
at our website Hudson Riverradio dot com. Leave us a comment and please consider
subscribing to the podcast, and if you really like us, please share us
with your family and friends. Okay, we've got another special guest up and
I think you're really going to enjoy him and his music. He's my friend.
He's a composer, of musician and author. Another renaissance man. I've
got all these renaissance people here. They make me look good, I hope.
Okay, welcome Peter Danish. Thank you for joining us. I want
to talk in particular about your composition, which is very much related to our
first guest, mister Phil Igner, who has been in Ukraine since the very
beginning of the war, and you composed a special song called a Prayer for
Ukraine. Tell us about how you came about that and how you created it.
Let's say it's a very long start, not just kidding. We've got
four minutes. Of course, the truth is it's not my composition, it
is my arrangement. Okay, thank you for an old folk song, an
old Ukrainian folk song and very long story made short. About almost ten years
ago. Now, I did a charity single for hurricane victims in Haiti,
and because a friend of mine here in Nayak, his father is a pastor
of a church down there, and he asked me if I could help out.
And I got legendary Tripolitan opera soprano a prelay milo to sing the piece,
and it was an ave Maria and a prelay was used to singing with
an orchestra. I didn't have an orchestra. I thought we just did it
with piano. So she said, see if you can get an orchestra.
And one of my little side gigs is I'm the classical music editor for BroadwayWorld
dot com. So I put out the call on Broadway World and asked everybody,
would you be interested in possibly being part of a charity single to raise
money for hurricane victims in Haiti. The response was absolutely overwhelming more than I
could possibly use. In fact, but I met a fella from the Ukraine
at that time named Boris, and he was just a wonderful fellaw he was
a cellist, but he's really an arranger. And he said to me,
there is this group of women who are absolutely marvelous string players, and they
have a group called the Infinito String Quartet, and they also have a full
string orchestra now as well. So I reached out to them and they played
on the single and they were absolutely wonderful, magical players. So after the
invasion of Ukraine two years ago, now it's a scary thought, I reached
out to them again just to see how they were doing. And they said,
well, we're okay. We're living in a basement, bombs are going
off around us. But send us work. They said, what do you
mean? They said, please send us work. We need some sense of
normalcy, something to keep us sane. Send us music and we'll record it
here. So I thought, wow, what a lovely idea if I could
send them some music. And I remembered a Ukrainian folk song that I had
heard. It was actually in Ukrainian church, and I couldn't remember the name
of it agredibly. So I went to YouTube as you do, and went
through about one hundred different a hundred different iterations of the song. And it's
mostly done by the joke we say, it's mostly done by a bunch of
old men with long black beards and tall black hats and they sing it and
and I thought, wow, you know who would be great to sing this,
Rita Harvey, because when I think old men with long black beards,
I think Rita harriy Oh, she's gonna love that. I'm sure, well,
we love that, Rita. Uh. One way to guarantee someone will
listen to the podcast. So I brought the song to Rita and she loved
it. That was good news. And then literally the next night we were
watching Saturday Night Live. I was at my house shoes at hers and the
opening, the cold opening to Saturday Night Live was this Ukrainian choir from Queens
singing the same song, and I said, that's karma. We have to
record this. And Rita is one of Rita's best friends. Her mom was
in Harsan in southern Ukraine at that time, which has been was bombed,
was overrun occupied, it's been I sent the music to my friends at the
Infinito and they literally recorded the string parts you'll hear in the basement in between
bombing raids. It was and their performance was sensational. They're really advanced,
advanced musicians, advanced players and wonderful people. And I lost touch with them
for over a year after we did the recording, and thank god, we
managed to get back in touch. It turns out they had to move.
They were in Kiev and they moved to Harkiev and then back as various hotspots
started to emerge during the bombings. But they're back now and they're working again.
I'm working on some other stuff and I promised them that this song will
be on the next CD that Rita and I release. And Rita, God
bless her, called her friend and Yuba and asked her to coach her for
all the Ukraine. And she did a real hell of a job singing I
think three or four voices on this same song. She did all the parts
yourself and all in Ukraine. Really remarkable performance by Rita. Peter, thank
you so much. I guess we'll just have to listen to it. It's
a wonderful song. I saw it performed live in a church here in Nayak.
Very special. You read a great orchestra. It's going to be exciting
to hear. So we like to thank you and of course for your intelligent
conversation. Always my question. You have a short film out that I want
to talk about that is very relevant to what's going on in this country.
But that's just a tease. We're not going to get into that today.
We'll talk about that at another time. I can certainly do a whole podcast
about that. Yeah, certainly, and we shall, so I'll hold you
to that. You got it. Of course, we got to thank Phil
Ititner and always wish him safety. Phil put some in harm's way for our
benefit to know what's going on. Of course, special thanks to Neil Richter,
the mailman. He keeps us on the air, so I have to
be nice with him, to him for another two or three minutes, otherwise
he'll cut me off. And of course a big special thanks to our listeners
who take a time, take some time to give us a voice in their
lives. Remember you can catch us anywhere you get your favorite podcasts, Apple,
Spotify and all the rest. Check us out on the Hudson River Radio
Faith Facebook page. You can tell him hustling to get this done. But
we want to leave you with a couple of things. Of course, Peter
Danish just Prayer for Ukraine will end the show, but just before that,
I want to give you something from Angela Davis who said, I am no
longer accepting the things I cannot change. I am changing the things I cannot
accept. A lot going on there. In two sentences, I'm your host,
Frank Lebono for our engineer Neil Richter. I want to thank you for
joining us here on being Frank up. Next Prayer for you Ukraine with Peter
Danish and Rita Harvey. Thank you guys. Oh, no Ukry move not
very boom wrong, most c Lomo series, the Lobo, not Scolls cocky,
most school, same co. Please Shap must take no b s Hudson
River Radio dot Com m HM