Welcome to the Nightcap on seven hundred w l W. Tonight, a trip
back in time to nineteen eighty four. As we start the show, how
about David Lee, Rod and Van Halen? As we jump into the conversation
and nothing kids down? You got it, I've seen the topess and get
the wren. We might as well. A new book called Jump Oddly Enough,
the fortieth anniversary of attending the nineteen eighty four Van Halen concert. Jim
Serger, the author, had lots of help with this book because he had
lots of friends with him on that fateful night in March of twenty of nineteen
eighty four, now forty years later. To talk about the book and the
experience that has lasted a lifetime, the author, Jim Serger joins us in
this half hour. His friend Chris Berger Will, who was at that same
show as an almost teenager or as a seventh grader whatever they were middle schoolers,
I guess, will join us and talk about that night and and the
book. So, Jim, how are you, Gary Hood? How are
you today? I appreciate you having me on. What a great song to
kick it off. It almost made me feel like jumping off a drum set.
Well, yeah, David Lee was pretty spry in those days, the
scissor kicks and everything else. I remember the song just because in March of
nineteen eighty four, I was a disc jockey at station in Chattanooga and we
played rock and roll, And remember when the song came out and it was
kind of mixed reviews about this new van Halen song, said, what happened
to van Halen? What's with all this keyboard stuff? Come on? But
it was. It was a huge, huge hit, obviously, and it
launched all kinds of great memories for you, and thus this book. So
how old were you when you went to the Cincinnati Gardens to see the kickoff
of van Halen's nineteen eighty four tour here in Cincinnati. It's really funny,
is February twenty fourth, nineteen eighty four I turned thirteen. And then on
February twenty fifth, nineteen eighty four, Jump went to the number one on
Billboard Hot one hundred, and then on March ninth we got to see van
Halen ven concerts. So now the span of two weeks, all that transpired.
I mean, it was unbelievable for a birthday present with all my buddies,
Oh it was it was a birthday present. Your parents knew full well
you were going right? No, no, they did not know full well.
No, no, no, no, not a single parent out of
all my buddies said yes to start off with. So, when Van Halen
was announced that they were coming to Cincinnati, because the song was released in
December and eighty three and then the music video Jump was released on January tewod
nineteen eighty four, my mom and dad didn't have a clue who Van Halen
were. I didn't know who these guys were, but because of MTV,
my parents thought, well, they looked trustworthy, they look good, and
I think my mom kind of fell in love with the band, you know
what I mean. Well that helps. So if you got if you got
mom in on the act, then it's a lot easier to convince dad that
you should be able to go. So did they get these for a birthday
present for you or what happened? No, they didn't. So a group
of my buddies, who all knew Vanhalan very well because of the music video
Jump and the song Jump, all went back and told our parents, Hey,
we got to see these guys in concert, and they said, no,
you guys are not going. You're too young. You're altar boys,
you're in the school choir, you're on the little league baseball team. No,
no, no, that is an adult venue. But my buddy's dad
was a Cincinnati police officer there. So that was how we chorused our parents
and so letting us go was there was going to be a police officer,
and then my parents said, well, you gotta get a chaperone. So
my buddy, who is one of eight kids, his dad said, oh,
what the heck, you buy our ticket. I'll take you guys.
So one of the guys dad took us down in the van that night.
So we had two adults with us. One was a cop working with van
Halen backstage, and the other dad was with us in row ten. And
all the parents just chipped in and boughtom a ticket. Unbelievable, unbelievable.
So that was how we corenced our parents into letting us go. There is
a chapter in your book Jump called simply the Van. Tell me about the
van that you went to van Halen in Jim. Well, everybody has a
picture of the van. If somebody says the van, they think of the
eighteen you know, or they think of the van from Scooby Doo. It's
the van. So this was the van Afford f one fifty echo line that
you could have housed probably the Harlem Globetrotters, plus the Cincnati Bearcats and the
Musketeers all inside this man. So here's all our buddies jam packed full in
the back of the van. Mister Myers is driving us from Anderson Township over
to bond Hill to the gardens. And it was just non stop, word
after word after word. We were trying to play the whole setlist in our
head of how is Eddie van Halen gonna play the guitar and how is he
gonna play the keyboards at the same time, and the other guy is just
learned what delirious was from Eddie Murphy, so he is resigning delirious for the
first time. So we are learning some sentence enhanswers on the back of the
van. It was hilarious. Boy, there was a lot of language and
delirious for a bunch of thirteen year olds to digest. I'll tell you that.
I mean I was twenty three years I was twenty three years old.
I said, man, that is raw, and then raw came out.
But you are correct to have a hidden camera or a microphone to record all
of us guys going to the Van Halen concert. I just think it would
be drop dead awesome to relive that probably twenty minutes thirty minute drive and hear
all these young kids saying the F bomb or Van Haaling or holy cow,
or I can't believe it. This is awesome. The chatterbox never would have
stopped once inside that band. In the acknowledgments in the front of the book,
a guy named Dan Varner, who's a Nashville Recording Artist Award winner,
says, Wow, a stand by Me and Sandlot coming of age story in
which we can all relate your first concert in friends, this was your very
first concert, wasn't it our very first concert? All of us grew up
together playing baseball, the same soccer team, same basketball team, so together,
me and all my buddies that I had known in first grade got to
attend our first concert the hottest band in America or the world with the number
one song Jump in tenth row with a twelve dollars and fifty cent ticket,
and it went by so fast. Gary, I mean it went by so
fast. We were just in awe, standing on our seats, high five
in each other, you know, hands up in the air, fifth up
in the air, going crazy. It was really a special moment to be
there with all my friends. And that's why this book had to have been
written, because we celebrate things all the time as adults, and memories need
to be captured and photographs are going away because we just captured them in our
cell phone. We don't make photo albums anymore. And I wanted this book
to be around forever to celebrate how much affection I have for one, all
my friends that I grew up with, but two what van Halen gave us
together as a team. We hear books written by experts on the history of
van Halen, but we wanted to capture what van Halen gave us. It's
a special bond between friends forever. And I want everybody to read this to
understand where were they at on their first concert, who were they with,
and celebrate that so well. Skip Myers is one of the adults that went
with you. Correct, that's correct? And Skip Burger, that'll be christ
ship Berger. I'm sorry. And then Mike Myers was young, correct,
and his name was Jim Myers Curl Myers there, So Jim Myers was the
oldest son. Mike was my age and then his dad, Kim was the
van driver of the night, so he was the adult chopper. But he
has been there and done that so many times. When you're the dad of
eight kids, this is nothing to go to a man, right, This
is just like one more piece of a puzzle to add to the chaos of
the family. I'll do it one more and more merrier. Right? Sure?
Was it the fact that you were thirteen and you were all friends and
it was your first experience? Is that what has created the enduring memory and
the longing to keep reliving it? What made that particular show so special?
Outside of that? Was it just that you love van Halen that much?
And I know it's persistent into your adulthood. You've got a podcast about van
Halen that you do regularly. Is that correct? No, sir, No,
that's actually incorrect. No, I don't run a podcast with van Halen.
That would be fun. No, you put that in my arm.
You're right, we talked to you. You've done podcasts about the book and
about your experience, so I could I could see you doing a podcast about
van Halen. I mean, everybody has a podcast about almost everything. Now
that you're right, Yes, sir, you're absolutely right. But the moment
of van Halen, I mean that's back nineteen eighty four, forty years ago.
So in all my span since I graduated from high school, that's college,
that's the Navy, that's moving out of the country, that's getting married
and having a kid. But the powerful moment about this is when I hear
a van Halen tune, it could be at the dentist's office, it'd be
on terminal at the Cincinnati airport. Instantly I am taken back to March ninth,
nineteen eighty four, and I replay that night over my head. And
that's something that I have on my subconscious that I celebrate with my friends.
And I'm not going to speak for all that, but when I interviewed them
all, they all felt the same way. We're fifty two, fifty three
years old, and van Halen's song Jump and others Panama Hot for Teacher,
Unchained, those are all special and it just triggers it boom right there.
And everybody out there knows a song. It could be your wedding song,
it could be your prom So any song triggers a moment, and that's the
power of music. And growing up, it was all sports. It was
all the reds, it was all the Fangles, Cyclones, Xavier. You
see boom boom, And then we got to see Van Halen for the first
time. And that's what I knew. Music was powerful. I was there
live and in person, and it's different than watching it on MTV. Are
different than listening in on the radio. There they are the guys that I
play all day long, and boom, we get to see them and that's
what the moment was special about. Here's an excerpt from the chapter called Eddie's
Death. Of course we lost Eddy van Halen a few years back. He
said, a friend of mine shared a story about the eighty five Chicago Bears,
which I remember, and I was a fan of the Bears. He
was watching the Super Bowl with all his friends and then the Bears won and
everyone screaming and running around the house. He ran to his dad to the
other room and said, we won. We won. His dad then said,
does that mean we can't go to work tomorrow? Should I quit my
job? And party life goes on. It's just football, and the super
Bowl win doesn't pay our bills. It is true worshiping celebrities running off to
buy all your novelty items. It's not exactly what our parents wanted us to
do with our money as youngsters or even adults. But celebrities, bands,
group singers, they all give us even just a few hours of an escape
and get away, of time to unravel. And I would agree that you
can't just build your life around, you know, celebrities and music, footballs,
whatever it is, sports or music or bands that you love. But
it's a nice distraction. I would say, how do you feel about that?
Absolutely I agree with you wholeheartedly on that we have to have an escape
outlet, whether that be a play, whether that be catching a baseball game,
a varsity high school hockey game, whatever venue, it gives us an
escape route. We can't be nose to the grind twenty four seven, twenty
four seven, twenty four seven. We have to be able to go out
and live life a little bit. And the moving part about Eddie passing away
is I had seen him live in person. He was probably twenty feet away
from me, jamming on his guitar, sweating it out, giving one hundred
energy for maybe two hours, two and a half hours at the most,
and I got to see him. So it's a part of me seeing Eddie.
So it did touch me a little bit when he passed away, absolutely,
and it's going to happen with other ones when Pete Rose passes away.
All I wanted to be with Pete Rose is a little boy Number fourteen still
hangs in my office right here with a handstitched Rookie jersey. I'm going to
be sad. I grew up with him. He's a part of my way
of life, you know, here in Cincinnati, and Eddie hit the drum
right on the fnare right there. When he passed away, becau part of
my night that I celebrated with my friends. So yes, it is sad,
but you're right. Life goes on. But I'm able to capture that
because Eddie gave me that moment with my friends. Thank you for that.
Jim Jim Serger, the author of Jump. The fortieth anniversary of attending nineteen
eighty four Van Halen concert at the Cincinnati Gardens, This probably deserves more attention
and time, but that's all I've got for tonight, Jim. Maybe again
we'll have a chance to discuss the nine to eleven book, and I know
you're working on some new ones. I I won't go into that, but
thanks again for your time. We're going to talk to your buddy who was
there with you, Chris Berger up next after the break with more Van Halen
jump news on the nightcap on seven hundred Thank you, seven hundred WLW.
Here is a little unchained saying I can'tn't get them from here by the cat.
Here's your taint? Were fine? Want something? No wh misteture?
I got ans not suck? Why side nothing save it's the same an Jane,
there's the jay and nothing stays the same. O Jane, I'm don
messle from the su This is my just th maybe you're not fat enough for
blood. I just not turn tib Mista said, I got the fast stop
talking out my father. Besides change you know this space and change another stas
aside, not change, Yeah you're here change now the stays the same,
Yeah, knopping stays the side. Ye who take a look at that,
ay Man and suit is you You'll get some let tonight. Four sure jumps
how you too. One break coming out, I s The Blue Eyed Murder
in the Side's Wife Dress, David Lee and Van Halen and Unchained Moore on
the book Jump with the people who lived it and wrote about it After the
Break on seven hundred W l W. Yeah. Did you know that if
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The pat to innovation begins here. Bearcats fans speak, twelve basketball is here?
Hate shot? Now he made a flame? Now baby would say?
Another iconic blast from the past from the Van Halen archives, Jamie's Crying.
We continue our hour long discussion of the book Jump fortieth anniversary of attending the
nineteen eighty four Van Halen concert Cincinnati Gardens, Cincinnati in March of twenty twenty,
nineteen eighty four, and here is twenty twenty four. We're coming up
on the fortieth anniversary, and we have another one of the attendees we talked
to Jim Serger last hour. This is Chris Berger, one of his childhood
buddies who was there that night, brought in the Ford Aconta line van and
deposited with his buddies, Cincinnati copp and one of the boys fathers. Actually,
your dad was one of the chaperones, Chris. But it's great to
talk to Chris Berger tonight more on this particular special night in your lives and
probably relatable to a lot of other people who are listening, who are around
and cognizant of MTV and rock and roll forty years ago. Chris Berger,
how are you doing. I'm doing great, Gary, Jeff, thank you
for having me on. It's a pleasure and just reliving the memories of that
night and my childhood altogether. It's a great book and a lot of people
are going to enjoy reading it. So what do you do these days,
Chris, I'm actually a sales manager for an architectural aluminum company. Okay,
well that's very specific. Yeah, have you been? And Jim bay Fund.
Jim made fun of me too the first time we started talking about the
book and everything, and he told me, oh, what do you do?
And I went in this whole ten minute thing. I can never get
the salesperson out of me. That's the problem. I'm always trying to sell
something. Well, that's good, I will hold I won't hold that against
you. Uh, thank you. So what what is the one if there,
if you could choose one particular sustaining memory from that particular night, is
there one thing that just sticks out more than the rest or? Can it?
Can it even be consumed? Uh, without the whole big picture of
the whole evening. But was there one thing that sticks out in Chris Berger's
mind to this day? Now? It was so many different events that happened
in my life over a twelve hour period, and all those grouped together that
is my lasting memory. I wish. Yeah, there's great things like meeting
Eddie, meeting the band, when Eddie started the solo to open the show
of Unchained, which was just hearth shattering in my mind. But every little
piece you're walking into the gardens experiencing an actual concert for the first time doing
grown up things. So I can't pick one exact moment that overrides the other.
It was just the whole compiling of those events that night at the gardens.
So was your father the police officer or was it the other Yeah,
your dad ski, Yes, Yes, my dad was the police officer Skipburger
all right. So other parents have felt kind of relieved since they had the
law enforcement with them to chaperone on this trip. And oh exactly. But
here's the thing with that, Gary, Jeff. When we first started talking
about this and the group of us wanted a group of friends wanted to go
see the concert and everything, my mom and dad immediately said, no,
you are not going. My dad worked a lot of details, a lot
of concert events back in the day. He knew what happened in front of
the stage, behind the stage. It was a no, no, no,
you are not going to that show. But Jim, Todd, Mike,
all my buddies, they used my dad as the pond. Oh,
mister Burger's going to be there. He's a policeman, he's going to look
over. So all of my friend's parents said, oh, okay, that's
great, mister Berger's going to be there. Okay, You're going to be
safe and everything. So I'm sitting there. I don't get to go,
but yeah, all my buddies get to go because they used my dad.
So when your dad found out that he had been used in such of what
finally possessed him to say, okay, Chris, you can go. Well,
you know, I've told this story numerous times since that night and everything,
and it was actually my dad meeting Eddie van Halen, meeting the band,
you know, interacting with them backstage and everything. And like I said
before, my dad had worked a lot of concerts, so he had this
preconceived notion and he witnessed at firsthand what happens at their shows. But with
the interaction with you know, specifically Eddie, how down to earth he was
and just how relatable and he actually asked my dad, you know, some
stuff about being a policeman. So it kind of had a little bit of
a connection. And what I say now is the rock gods were looking down
on me that Friday, March ninth, and actually Eddie they played for two
nights and my dad of course met him on Thursday night. The first night
of the show, and that's when they had the interaction before Van Halen took
the stage and Eddie asked, my dad, is your son here tonight.
He's like, no, no, no, he's not here tonight. It's
a school night. And Eddie goes, is he going to be here tomorrow
night? And my Dad's like no, he doesn't have a ticket. And
that's when Eddie said, I want you to bring him tomorrow night. I
want you to bring him backstage tomorrow night because I want to meet him.
Like I said, the rock gods were shining down on me and you know,
you couldn't just it was just incredible and reliving it. And okay,
okay, okay, Chris, So your dad is talking to Eddie van Halen
the night before you guys were hoping to go to the show, and Eddie
says, yes, oh, bring your bring your kid, you know what,
and and bring him backstage. So through your police officer father, who
was saying no, no, no, no, no, all of a
sudden, he's he's being invited to bring you the next night. So that's
how you guys got backstage. Was so your dad's connection all right, yeah,
exactly. But the thing is with that Gary Jeff. Yeah, my
dad was okay with but the ultimate gatekeeper was my mom. She still needed
to be convinced to let me go, which after the concert, her and
my dad talked and they ultimately came to the decision that yeah, I could
go. Well that's wonderful. It wasn't any of that. We'll go ask
your father and he says, I don't know, go ask your mother.
It wasn't one of those teals. So no, no, definitely not.
My mom was the gatekeeper, so everything went through went through her, and
she knew how disappointed I was that I wasn't included in the initial buying of
the tickets and everything like that, and she knew, you know, I
really wanted to go because these were my childhood friends. I mean, we
played sports teams that our baseball, soccer, basketball, and you know how
it is when you're a kid when you kind of get left out of the
whole group of doing something. And then you know, I think that you
know, definitely worked into the equation. It doesn't hurt that, you know,
Eddie van Halen himself invited me to come to the show. Well,
so let's talk about that. That chance meeting backstage that was lined up,
not really a chance meeting, and it happened, and upon Eddievon van Halen's
request, you're there, so tell me about you guys. Did your mouths
ever closed? Were you What was that like as a twelve thirteen year old,
Yeah, I mean meeting him, and you know, that was our
first concert in really, my buddies and I. We got into Van Halen
because of the song Jumped. I mean, it was the hottest song on
the radio on MTV, they were the hottest band, so you know,
yeah, we saw the videos like Okay, this is cool and everything,
but you know, years later just thinking about you know, yeah, it
was awesome meeting them, but it didn't mean what it meant to me what
it means to me today with actually meeting them and how nice they were,
and they took time. They didn't need a pip squeak like me coming backstage,
but you know, just to be able to shake their hands and they
signed the cover liner from my eighty four cassette right in front of me,
and it was just like just the coolest thing in the world. And then
actually getting into the actual concert and everything. Yeah, I don't think our
mouth shut or our eyes closed the whole entire concert. There's a whole section
of the book that has ticket stubs. Oh yeah, skip one of your
dad gave to you. He was doing it. He was throwing guys out
of the concert and everything, and he would take their ticket stubs. So
that's why I've got like ten ticket stubs from that night, but not one
of them were mine because I didn't have a ticket. So Chris Berger's ticket.
But remember Chris did not have a ticket that night, so I'm sure
this is either Todd or Mike's ticket which ended up in Chris's possession. You're
a ticket You're a ticket thief, is what you are. Chris. That
was some thing, you know, back when I was a kid collecting baseball
cards and everything. Yeah, I didn't throw away anything. I just put
everything into a box. And you know, going through that and you know,
seeing all those ticket stubs. But the craziest thing about that, on
that ticket stub, it shows you're right there twelve dollars and fifty cents for
the tenth row center stage at the Gardens for Van Haleen eighty four. Yeah,
you guys are on these do you guys are on these? Metal folding
chairs standing on them ten rows from the stage. That's incredible in and of
itself. Were these general emission tickets or those are the tickets you bought that
put you on the tenth throw? Those were the tickets that that the guys
bought, yeah, previously Okay, So there was a big area behind you
where people could get through, so you kind of you kind of had a
little bit more room. You weren't all crammed in like sardines right where you
were. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. There wasn't anybody behind us.
That was the thoroughfare from you know, one side of the Coliseene to the
the other. And that in itself was you know, a spectacle. You
know, like you said, this is our first Confort concert. We'd never
experienced anything like that. And you see the cops pulling people out, and
that was that that general area right there was was really people just moving to
and from and everything. Was there a lot of marijuana being smoked inside the
arena? Is that one of the reasons that the cops were escorting people out?
I think so. But you know, once again, and my buddy
Todd, who's instrumental in this book too, and he says that who let
the skunk in here? I was like, do you smell that skunk in
everything? So it's like, you know, we had seen stuff on TV,
but actually in person seeing people firing it up and then smelling that and
everything was just yeah, I'm sure that was probably half the people that got
thrown out of there is because of smoking crafts. So you guys all played
sports together and then you you did this together. Pretty tight knit knit group.
Yes, did you have any real interest in girls at the that age
twelve thirteen? Not? At that age, No, I had, Well,
I should take that back just a little bit. When I did walk
backstage. That was my first kind of experience with I guess you go quote
unquote groupies with the eighties girls with the big aquinet hair and everything. So
that was my first movie. We started walking backstage seeing all these you know,
gorgeous beautiful women and everything, and that's why I said, you know,
I could have probably just stayed out there and been happy, but you
know I had to meet Eddie and the rest of the guys. So so
yeah, but not, you know, not anything with school or anything like
that. Interest in girl. The really was, you know, music in
sports, and hanging out with all my buddies and my friends. So your
buddies are all still around and doing well. Yes, yes they are good.
Good. Is your father still with us or is he gone? He
is, he is still with us, and he's really enjoyed this journey and
everything and just reading you know, the stories with it, and you know,
we keep talking about that. You know, none of this would have
happened, you know, first off, if we weren't such a tight knit
group of friends. And then if that didn't happen with Eddie, who knows,
well, I wouldn't have been at the show. So who knows that
this story really holds the meaning? You know, if I wasn't involved,
or we weren't all friends and be able to experience this show together, well
that's great. Well listen, it's it's a joy to talk to you.
I had fun talking to Jim too. The book by Jim Serger with Chris
Berger, jimmy Myers, Jim Myers, Todd Zimmerman, Skipberger, and Mike
Myers Jump the fortieth anniversary of attending the nineteen eighty four Van Halen Concert and
what was your next Van Halen experience? Real quickly after that, Chris.
The next one with Van Halen was fifty one fifty. Well that was the
next album, you know, after Dave left the band and everything. So
yeah, fifty one fifty And I know that's the age long debate, you
know, Sammy or Dave and everything, but yeah, that was Sammy did
a great job, did a great job when he was part of Van Halen.
But yeah, fifty one to fifty was my next concert after eighty four.
And I've been able to see van Halen fifteen times altogether. Good for
you, listen, thanks for taking the time to talk to us tonight.
Chris Berger with us on the night Cap, and we'll end with a little
ain't talking about love com including and I had a little slinger all about your
disease that you may have all the wrong David, but I got something you
need tell you. Just rid to call tell you. She's like, I'm
talking before yeah, before you do you say my good logan and six again
count you're thinking that a cookie man, you've had nobody yourself a friend.
My man didn't talking, not a card. I talk loud, just like
I taught you keep calling. They fall, they fall, they fall,
be about he Tunnle and everybody get you the car ain't talking, just like
I got told you these do I beg I've been to the edge. May
I stouldn't look down nor lost a lot of friends. I got more tip
of the spam, got to bree, go to calm. I believe once
again for this hour. David Lee, Rod Eddie, and Alex van Halen,
Michael Anthony again the book Jump the fortieth anniversary of attending the nineteen eighty
four Van Halen concert at Cincinnati Gardens. After Jim Serger along with his buddy
Chris Berger, Thank you, gentlemen, News next seven hundred WLW. For
most of us, there are no guarantees as we just had on a few
weeks ago. But it was so fascinating and so infuriating to hear a real
story of what Americans are being put through in the name of justice. Oddly
enough, regarding January sixth and just and it's it's a harbinger for all of
us as American citizens. If they can do that to this guy, they
certainly could do it to any one of us, And they can make up
anything they want to make up to justify the injustices that have been done to
the January sixth protesters, the people that were there at the Capitol, not
the people who were violent or doing anything that amounted to any kind of harm
to Congress or the Capitol police or anyone else. They Yet many were arrested
and spent a lot of time in jail, being denied their rights to see
their attorney, to see the evidence before they went to trial. One of
those people is with us again. Tim Hale, thirty three year old Army
Reserve veteran, recently released after being in jail for nearly three years. Big
the big charge, the big kahuna was obstruction of official proceeding, the only
felony charge part of the fifteen twelve Section C two being reviewed by the Supreme
Court right now. And to give us an update on what's going on in
video that is still being released from January sixth that you and I have not
seen, haven't been able to see because they've been hiding it from us,
is the aforementioned Tim Hale. How you doing, Tim, I'm doing great.
I'm happy to be back. Yeah, it's good to have you back.
I wanted to bring a light to something you may or may not know
about. It doesn't involve you directly. But another one of the January sixth
protesters who was given a misdemeanor charge of parading at the cap. But see,
now, when I was a kid, the only bad thing about parades
is they didn't throw out to write kind of candy. I don't know what
kind of charge parading is. I understand it's a misdemeanor. And a gentleman
who's a fifty three year old truck driver named James Little was arrested and he
beat the charges in court after being sentenced to whatever six and anyway, because
the judge didn't like the fact that I guess he beat the charges, he
sends him to another sixty days in jail. I don't know if you've heard
about his case or not, Tim, But do you know anything about the
man I'm talking about, I honestly no. That's actually that's a new one
for me. I know there is something to be said about these sentences that
are being handed out. I mean, that's again, that actually a new
one to me. I try to keep up with some of these cases,
and there's so many bizarre ones. I mean, there's a guy named Jeremy.
He tried to raise money so he could pay for a lawyer, and
the government didn't like that he was raising money to pay for the lawyers,
so the government had the court freeze the fundraiser he set up so he couldn't
pay for a new lawyer. So, I mean, that's how desconable it
really is. You have the right to a defense of the charges against you,
so therefore they were restricting his ability to even defend himself, which has
happened time and time again, as you described to us a few weeks back.
Not allowing you to see the evidence against you so you can prepare for
trial, and having such limited access to your attorney. All of these things
are illegal, and yet the government is using all kinds of obfiscated reasons to
keep the defendants of January sixth from these specifically. And that's another example.
So anyway, Tim, this is what I was gonna tell you here if
I can pull this James Little and this is from This is from Tim Rivers,
the author of the American Gulag Chronicles Letters from Prison. I don't know
if you've familiar with Tim at all. I know you've been working with the
Patriot Freedom Project and they have helped you people like Ed Martin, who's a
fantastic attorney. But here's the deal of James Little. Apparently the judge did
not like the fact that he was unremorseful. According to this story from the
Washington Times, I believe, and the judge in his case was a man
named Royce C. Lambert. Oh, yeah, you're familiar with lamberth He's
one of the major ones. And let me just say this. There are
a lot of district judges, but it seems like with January sixth cases,
it's always like the same twenty or so judges who get all of the cases.
It's very interesting. But please continue selective justice, okay, which we've
seen a lot of in this country over the last and continue to see it.
But anyway, he said Thursday last Thursday, was worried about further danger
to our country because of Little and other shameless attempts to misinterpret or misrepresent what
happened on January sixth, twenty twenty one. Well, his audience was just
Little, the fifty three year old North Carolina truck driver. The judge also
alluded to comments made by Republican lawmakers, including what he called a preposterous statement
from Representative Elise Stefanic, calling January sixth, defendants hostages. Would you say
that you were more of a hostage than a prisoner in the time you were
into Yeah, I would say that because you know, something that's interesting with
hostages I think is that you know, typically they're they're not really held for
real reasons that would you know the justice Yeah, Like okay, So for
instance, one thing I noticed when going through case law is that these judges
keep using the term insurrection even though it's in three years and they know it
wasn't an insurrection. No one's in charge with it. So I mean,
that's kind of the same thing here. You know, it's like the letter
of the law doesn't mean anything, and it's like why spend It's just interesting,
like you spend all this time reading case law, and what's the point
if they're gonna make up their own rules and can completely ignore the case law.
Right, There's another. Here's another. Here's another, like really ridiculous
example. There was a woman across paths with a couple of times in the
in the Capitol building. Name was Caitlin Bartow, and she's like this cowgirl
from out west. She got couple of misdemeanors and it's been three years,
so she's supposed to be sentenced I think next week. And she did nothing.
She literally she was picking up She's on video. I have video of
her. I posted it. She's picking up garbage and putting it in garbage
bags. She gave a speech, and I mentioned this in my trial too,
and it's like it's on the record. I don't understand like why people
like the building was not inside the building was not anywhere near as violent as
outside. People were just wandering around. So she gave a speech basically inside
what's called the Capital Visitor Center, and she completely talked down a crowd of
people that were angry that the cops were like hurting people. And so actually
like the cops and the and the crowd, And then on our way out,
you can see me and her because they're sitting us out a window,
the Capitol police. You can see us yelling to people stop breaking the s
words, you know, stop breaking stuff. So I mean it's like this,
I mean, as well as her brother, like there's no reason they
should have even been prosecuted, let alone with stupid misdemeanors and then hold them
hostage for three years. I mean, they're out on bond, but just
like, why even wasting resources prosecuting these people. It's really just the part
of the phrase a body count, you know, sure, And the more
they can add on to that group and make it seem like it was an
ominous group of people trying to overtake the US government, the more they can
add on, the more it contributes to their insurrectionist narrative. The drum beat
that has been going on for the last three years. After January sixth,
twenty twenty one, now, the video that you're talking about, trying to
trying to get it released, do you remember all of the uproar when Tucker
Carlson just released just a portion of the video that he had gotten released,
just a portion, you know, And oddly enough, a week later,
Tucker Carlson wasn't on Fox News anymore. I just find that I find that
kind of odd, don't you. Yeah, I mean that was I was
actually I think I was in prison at the time, but I ye know,
I did. Uh. I'll say this, there's one thing sex offenders
love watching in prison, and it's Fox News. So I saw that on
TV all the time. So I happened to notice when all the child molesters
weren't watching Fox you know, where they were watching Fox News, there was
a different host on. So I was like, Okay, that's cool.
Interesting, I wonder why that is. Yeah, I have mixed feelings about
that, you know, because like I am, like, I'm a little
salty that McCarthy didn't give Tucker Moore to release. But yeah, it is
interesting, like as soon as they see a little bit of video that contradicts
their narrative, they start losing their minds. And it's like CNN and all
these like fake news, they're the ones really like they were the ones playing
to see twenty second clips for three years. Suddenly you see at a little
bit of video that says, well, actually, maybe maybe it was a
mostly peaceful protest quote unquote, and then suddenly, yeah, people start freaking
out. Yeah, well, you know what, we didn't have a federal
push by the Department of Justice to arrest in mass Black Lives Matter and ANTIFA
protesters who were doing serious damage not only to property federal property, but to
just common everyday citizens who are just trying to mind their own business and live
their lives and all all of that, you know, the Democrats, Kamala
Harris famously was funding bail for BLM protesters and Antifa protesters because they were a
fundraising arm of the Democrat Party, which we found out, you know,
in the middle of all of that chaos in twenty twenty one. Thing famously,
there's an old song by the group Fix from nineteen eighty something eighty three
says one thing leads to another, And certainly the unrest of twenty twenty led
to further mayhem in twenty twenty one, But that mayhem was not being caused
mainly by January sixth protesters. It was being caused by the federal government in
cahoots with the Department of Justice and Capitol Police. Don't you think that that's
a good ascertainment of what it transpired there? Yeah, I mean, hey,
look, I don't want to take credit for everything too. Like there's
a guy on Twitter as well. He goes by free State Will. It's
Will Pope. He's another defendant, he's pro se. I mean, he
posts so much video confirming that. I mean, yeah, Antifa was there,
and I don't want to discount that Antifa were agitators at the Capitol.
We found a lot of them, and I was in jail with some of
them. But like they're also like straight up federal agents, people who are
who are connected to three letter agencies. We call them the Fed brigade.
And he has a lot of video showing them talking about it and bragging about
it that day. So there are all kinds of people connected to the Defense
Intelligence Agency, all kinds like FBI, CIA, All these people were there.
There's even video of like in uniform officers from the BOP Bureau of Prisons
that were called up for backup that day, who are up there on video
trying to stay out of sight because they you know, it's bad optics.
So, I mean, every three letter agency you can think of, we
know they were there to win site January sixth. It's just a matter of
the government refusing to acknowledge it or the media to acknowledge it. But I
mean, more to the point, you know, you really, you really
gotta, you really gotta think about this. They just had they were just
occupying Congress not too long ago over that uh, over the you know,
over the the stuff with the Middle East. Yeah, yeah, I mean
this is Look, there's two ways to look at this. In terms of
protests and in terms of riots, you know, these are riots aren't new
in America. I mean, it's sorry to say it, but like they're
just not. And in terms of protests, whether you want to talk about
civil rights or the peace movement, anti war, whether you want to talk
about like the labor movement. You know, it used to be that the
left was the ones persecuted by the Feds, and so the pendulum can always
swing in the other direction. This is why it's a bad precedent. But
even in terms of riots, you know, this is why Joe Biden's a
terrible leader, because George Washington, John Adams, they pardoned people engaged in
actual rebellions, and even Lincoln was even Lincoln had plans to be pretty we'll
say, conciliatory during the actual Civil War. You know, meanwhile, a
bunch of guys with flagpoles and stuff like that, it's locked them up for
the rest of their lives. It makes no sense. And that just shows
you that they're trying to cover something up. They're just trying to hide stuff.
It's all about a narrative, you know, it's absolutely bananas. Yeah,
Well, the guy was tim the guy was telling me about air This
James Little, this truck driver from uh North Carolina, first sentenced by Lamberth
to in early twenty twenty two to sixty days in prison and three years of
probation after pleading guilty to illegally parading at the capitol. But his public defenders
argued prison time and probation can't be combined for a single petty misdemeanor charge.
The US Court of Appeals from the DC Circuit agreed, And and this was
back in August. He'd already served his time and about half his probation,
so he asked to be set loose. Instead, Lambert sends him anew to
two more months in prison, saying he'd showed no remorse or respect for the
criminal justice system since the riot. You know what, you know, what's
interesting is like there's really case law. Actually this might seem counter on two
who it might not. You don't have to show remorse, as dumb as
that might sound like, you remorse might get you a lower sentence, but
according to actual case law, you don't have to show remorse if you maintain
your innocence. And it's actually like they're really not supposed to be getting people
exorbitant sentences for not showing remorse because you already get a reduction in your sentence
in guidelines when you take a plea deal. So it doesn't even make sense.
None of this makes sense. And if you think about, like there's
this thing called the trial tax. So like I went to trial and I
got a three point enhancement for supposedly lying on the stand or would they say
providing material false testimony. It's like, well, no, I didn't lie.
I just testified in my defense because that's my right. But you get
a three point enhancement if you do that. But you get a three point
reduction if you bend the knee and take a plea deal. So there's a
six point difference in how they grade your sentence based on what if you go
to trial or you don't. And so really you have a system of justice
where these judges, like again it's like maybe they're not all bad. Maybe
they're just part of a machine that just they're just they just can't like remove
themselves from psychologically to think about this objectively. But whatever the case may be,
I don't want to slander all these judges, but it just seems like
there there We're just in a situation now where it's been the knee or we
will destroy you. And you know you can't do that. You can't.
You can't keep leveling someone settenced up over misdemeanors. Most misdemeanor cases should be
time served or even just get it like here's a pay a fine, like
like here's an example. And you know it's not like the prettiest example because
you know the real world that the real reality is man Like, a growing
number of Americans have criminal histories. So you know, there was this guy
I was locked up with. He was one of the first people I met
on con Air. Is the January sixth senant named Michael Curzio. Michael Curzio
went to prison for like seven years for first degree attempted murder. His story
is it's a it's an interesting story. I don't judge him for it based
on what he's actually told me about it. It seems like he was kind
of screwed by the courts. But he went to prison and he had to
join a gang for his own protection. Yeah, so this is this is
state prison. So but this was this was a while ago. So his
judge used and this is like one of the best judges actually is Judge Nichols.
He's the guy who actually tossed out the fifteen twelve charge that's in the
Supreme Court now. But his judge initially was like, you're basically you're the
worst thing in the world, and I'm not going to give you bond.
But he was only given misdemeanors and he was actually arrested in the Capitol building.
He was right next to me in the Capital Visitor Center. They arrested
him right there and they let him go that day, and then then the
FEDS raided him in Florida a week later, but they still only gave him
a misdemeanors, so they held him. They held him in the dcjail for
a solid six months just because they wanted him to do his entire sentence no
time served. He had to do the full six months for the plea deal
he took. And so like it just seems like for everybody, no matter
what, there's always variations. But for every single case, there's some like
there's just some they want to get their pound of flesh somehow. Tim Haale,
Tim Hale, I'm sorry, I'm out of time now, but we
will talk again if you're if you're willing, Okay, I'm always willing,
all right, I appreciate it. It's the Nightcap on seven hundred WLW.
Tackling a renovation, remodel or clean out Rumky Waist and recycling can help.
Rumpky can quickly deliver. Monday evening, January twenty Nights twenty twenty four.
The playoffs, well, the playoffs are over. It's just the big Kahuna
now the super Bowl in Las Vegas, where my Kansas City Chiefs will meet
with the resurgent San Francisco forty nine ers. That was quite a good Both
were hell of games yesterday. They really were. To talk about this and
more is our friend wild Man Walker, who joins us once again on a
night Cap. Wild Man first and foremost. You do know that we had
our friend, now our mutual friend, James Serger or Jim Serger on earlier
in the show to talk about the book Jump the fortieth anniversary of attending the
nineteen eighty four Van Halen concert March of twenty twenty four at the Cincinnati Gardens.
Now, he didn't mention you specifically in our interview, but you were
there too, at that show. Absolutely, I was there. I still
have my ticket stub and I have a signed picture by Eddie van Halen because
I had a action to get something by Eddie signed. So I was there.
I didn't see those I didn't see those guys there. But boy,
that show was awesome too. It was a heck of a show. I
never I only saw one van Halen one bad van Halen show. You know
why that was so bad? Why it's when they had that former lead singer
from Extreme Oh, Gary Sarone. No, you don't have van Halen with
Gary Sharone. No, No, we walked We walked out of the show.
We walked out of the show at River Been. It was so bad.
Oh, man, Of every other van Halen show with Dave or Sammy,
they were always great, they were always great. Yeah, no doubt
about it. So you remember that particular night at the Cincinnati Gardens. What
what did you Yeah, what did you think of the Cincinnati Gardens as a
concert venue? Wild man? It was Well, it was the perfect place
at the perfect time in the eighties with all those big hair bands rolling in
because the Colisseum really didn't know, I don't know what they were doing but
somehow the gardens were able to pull it off and get all those big hair
bands in the air. And I thought the sound was okay. I mean,
they did try to improve it when the late Jerry Robinson bought it.
They did, you know, try to improve the acoustics. But I saw
a lot of really good shows there. I remember seeing Tom Petty there was
with an awesome, awesome show. Oh yeah, I can't imagine not seeing
an awesome show with Tom Petty on stage. God rest his soul. So
anyway, let's get to the playoff action yesterday, playoffs playoffs, and let's
first talk about the San Francisco forty nine Ers being in that twenty four to
seven hole at halftime. You know, I'm sitting there watching the game,
I'm going, man, the Lions finally are going to break through and get
to their very first Super Bowl. Look at that, and then there was
something in the back of my mind that told me this lead is not going
to last. I mean, I knew at halftime when it was twenty four
to seven that the Lions were not going to be able to run willy nilly
like they did in the first half against that forty nine Ers defense. And
I just had a sneaking suspicion that McCaffrey and Deebo Samuels and Brock Purdy got
who rushed for fifty two yards himself, and he's not exactly a speed demon
out there in the field, but Brock Perdy picked his spots. So,
I mean, did you have an idea that the forty nine ers were going
to come back and win that game? At halftime? I had a you
know, I was I was loving that the Lions were winning, they were
dominating, But at halftime, you know, you know, I had an
uneasy feeling. I wasn't sure, and I was texting a bunch of my
friends saying, the Lions need to keep their foot on the neck of the
forty nine ers. They need to keep their neck, don't give up.
And you know they make the halftime adjustmentship they did that, the forty nine
ers did, and of course you had those goofy plays. You know what,
It came down to two fourth downs, two fourth down plays, and
you know, the Campbell decided he want to go for when you're thirty yards
out, you're on the road in the playoffs, you kick the field goal.
He was trying to get too cute like Zach Taylor the other fourth and
the other fourth down call. I didn't have a problem with it. And
of course Jared Goff he had a terrible day in the second half on third
downs. He could not complete a pass. Some of his passes were drops.
All of a sudden, the Lions for some reason had the drop seas
in the second half. So you had the drop seas, you had Golf.
You really could complete any third down plays. You had that fumble,
You had that fumble that you know that cost him, that cost him over
the three points or six points, and all of a sudden you look up
and the forty nine ers are ahead. Well, the play, the play
where the pass bounces off the Lions defender right into the arms of the receiver,
you know, Brandon Aluk. I think that's how you say is yeah,
and that I mean, that's one of those things that just like the
immaculate reception, it's how does this happen? Uh? Yeah, How in
the world does the ball bounce that way? And when that happened, I
knew they were done this. Yeah, And it usually happens against the Bengals,
those kind of plays, because I've seen a lot of that happen.
No, seriously, man, I when when that happened, I go,
Okay, either this is either this is scripted or God just doesn't want the
Lions to win. But the Dan Campbell gambles, uh to me, we're
just inexcusable. I know that's the way he plays, and he's a he's
a riverboat GA A different game. Yeah, but it's a different game.
And it's in the playoffs. You know, it's not regular season. You
know, it's it's just a different game. You got to be thinking,
and you're on the road. You're on the road, just things that can
go so wrong there, and you know, you go, you know,
you go buy you know, not your heart, which I think Campbell was
doing instead of you know, the right decision. And I would have kicked
that field goal. And I think every family will tell you they should have
kicked the field goal the first time when I was four. That would have
tied the game up. Well, I think Dan Campbell after one the postgame
press conference with him, I think he would do it again and again again.
And because he accepted no responsibility, he didn't apologize, he didn't say,
you know, I should have done something different, when it was clear
that he should have at least done the one thirty yard attempt, he should
have gone ahead and just tied the damn score. Yeah, you know,
and and he didn't do that. It was just like he's somebody, obviously
that did not learn from some of the biggest mistakes in his professional life in
that game. And you could hear it in the postgame he just maybe he
was just still in a state of shock because they'd lost their opportunity to go
to Las Vegas and the big game. But it seemed to me like he
was a person who just you know, I'm not looking for anybody to apologize.
I agree with no apologies, but you got it. You gotta be
accountable. You got to take the blame. You know. He just blamed
it kind of on the whole team, and it is a team spilot,
but not executing or whatever. Using an old line, not executing, right,
he said, we just didn't do it today. We didn't have it
today. Well, one of the reasons you didn't have it today is because
the head coach you made a stupid mistake in the biggest game of your life.
And I didn't hear that from him on the podium. I respect people
who can say that they made a mistake, but he wasn't going to do
that. No, no, Well, the NFL got what they wanted.
They wanted the Chiefs and they wanted the forty nine Ers. So now we
have to live with it. Well, it's a rematch of Super Bowl fifty
four, four years ago when the forty nine ers got beat Is there?
Are you're ready for this? I just sold this that this morning. The
forty nine ers haven't won a Super Bowl in thirty years? I know.
Can you believe thirty years? It was like it seemed like they were winning
them every other year. It's been thirty years as the forty nine ers won
a Super Bowl. And I'll tell you right now, I don't like either
team in the Super Bowl, but I gotta go with the forty nine Ers
only because I'm sick of seeing the Kansas City Chiefs. And that's same that
singer. I'm not going to say her name, that singer's face constantly all
over TV. Why the NFL has to show us that I'm sick of it,
the world is sick of it, and I'm pulling for the forty nine
ers. You are troubled by the cult of celebrity. I understand, wild
Man. I am a Chiefs fan. I've been a Chiefs fan, and
the introduction of that female singer that you won't name doesn't mean one thing one
way or another to me. It's just, you know, it's celebrity.
It's hard of seeing it. So she has a boyfriend on the team.
A lot of other women have boyfriends on the team. It's just it's overkilled.
Okay, it's overkilled. They don't have to show her ten times a
game, So show her once and that and be done with it. So
if if the other players have girlfriends who are there in the stands, would
you rather just the camera pan all of them as well as Taylor Swift that
you want to see any of them. I don't want to see any of
them. I don't know what. I don't know what they have to do
at the game. I'm just there to watch the game. But I know.
But I watched the game too, But I'm not easily triggered. It
doesn't bother me. I think I speak on behalf of a lot of people
in this country that they're sick of seeing that constantly, show it once and
be done with it. And and then and that game yesterday Gary between the
Chiefs and the Ravens. Yeah, it's it was so it was so proven
that you could win games on a regular basis, win big games if you
have a tight end like Kelsey eleven receptions. This is something that Bengals need
really bad and their offense is a tight end who can catch a pass at
crucial times, at crucial times. Now they had one three years ago and
Tyler Ryford, unfortunately he couldn't stay hurt. That guy could have been a
Hall of Fame tight end. The last really good tight end the Bengals head
was Rodney Holman. And that's going back a long way. Harrison Hurst was
was very good. He wasn't great, he was very good, and then
of course he went for Agosson and Hurt. But they need a tight end.
There's a number of them out out there in the draft. Whether the
Bengals can trade up or you know, get you get one of those tight
ends and rounds maybe one or two, maybe two, maybe one, one
or three. But they need a tight end who can consistently get open and
catch the pass. I don't think erth Smith Junior or or Sample are real
answers there. I agree no, Now, sample sample is a great blocker.
But IRV Smith, Erth Smith can't catch a cold, I might as
well have you in there a tight end. Urth Smith can't catch a cold.
So yesterday that was living proof that the Bengals need a tight end in
that offense, so they can get a tight end that can catch the ball,
you know, in the in the hole, in the spaces that are
there. On an assistent basis manner, offense could be unstoppable. But how
about how about Zay Flowers? What an idiot? Well, that guy's name
isn't mud and Baltimore, nobody's name is. Here's the thing, here's the
thing about that you said it was. The key was Travis Kelcey for the
Chiefs. I think the key was how dumb the entire Baltimore team was.
It seemingly at the end, not just Sayflowers and the tawning thing, not
just the fumble a foot from the end zone holding the ball out, but
but the other penalties that the Van Noyd when he just came up and knocked
pat Patrick Mahomes in the head for no reason and gave him fifteen yards.
There was stupid play after stupid play after stupid play made by the Baltimore Ravens.
The collective IQ is just north and just barely north of Lamar Jackson's jersey
number, which is eighty eight penalties for ninety five yards Gary most undisciplined,
stupid team I have seen at that level in a long long time. And
that's what it came down to. It came down to football, IQ and
Baltimore had none of it. And it seems really kind of kept and check
Lamar Jackson from running because he's really a very good drop back quarterback. He
really isn't. He doesn't really have a real great strong arm, but they
kept him from you know, running out of the pocket. The Chiefs defense,
give it, you know, give them all the credit. Man.
They played great, you know up front and also in the secondary when he
did try to complete the pass, they were all over those guys. Well,
the announcers kept on saying, you know, you've got to keep Lamar
east and west, not north and south. And for most of the game
the Chiefs did exactly that. Now here's the Chiefs. They've not let anybody
score more than twenty seven points against them all season long. The defense is
just unbelievable. It's like a different Chiefs team with the same superstar quarterback,
it really is, and the same superstar tight end. But the Chiefs defense
has been absolutely stifling to almost everyone that they have faced this year, with
one or technically in the second half of the game. Right, So this
is what And the Lions really didn't have a very strong defense. It was
noted that, you know, teams can can score in the middle of the
field off the Detroit Lions defense. They're facing San Francisco, who have weapons
galore all over the place, but that Kansas City defense, man, it's
like a blanket. And I think that they'll be able to do some of
the similar things to San Francisco in the Super Bowl. What do you think?
Well, I want to go back there. You just mentioned Lamar Lamar
Jackson. How about that stupid interception he threw, Well, what was he
thinking, right? And the covery three guys down there? What was he
thinking? He's thinking he's desperate and needs a touchdown out of nothing. That's
what he's trying to make something out of nothing. Yeah, well, no,
the defense, I mean, you got you got to give him credit,
and you know, the numbers don't lie. You just said it.
They haven't given up more than twenty seven points. They're doing something right.
The forty nine ers have a lot of weapons. This could be This could
be one of the the best games ever possibly, you know, well offense
and offense against defense. This could be one of the best Super Bowls ever.
All right, now, the line, I think the line I saw
was two and a half, but I didn't see who was favored. I
did see. I think the line was two and a half. Well,
you know, as far as Kansas City goes, you can throw the lines
out. Buffalo is favored, Baltimore was favored. It didn't matter and the
Chiefs. That the whole thing about the Chiefs having to go on the road
and the playoffs and Patrick Mahomes never winning a road playoff game or having the
chance to be in a road playoff game in the AFC Championship, all of
that is is rewritten. Now. Yeah, they shut every body up there,
absolutely, So you know, you can't really pay attention to point spreads.
I mean, everybody listening who cares about this will be because they'll be
playing their fan duel or whatever. But you know, there's plenty of other
things to bet onto the Super Bowl, and I would stay oh yeah,
I would stay away from actually picking the winner in the game and concentrate on
those other those other things, of which they were about a million that you
can bet on wild Man like a coin flip. I always like the coin
flip. Well you would what why while I got John here? While I
got you on here man? Real quick? Fifteen days until Red's pictures and
catchers report for spring training in Goodyear, Arizona. Fifteen days and that's definitely
something to be excited about. What about if Taylor Swift flips the coin wild
Man? Oh, don't say that. St'll say her name while we're talking
man, come on, wild Man Walker. Thank you very much for your
time, as always, my friend, Garry, always a pleasure to talk
to you, and I will talk to you soon, all right. His
chance to speak now is Taylor's album suggested wild Man Walker. And we'll take
a break and come back with more on seven under WLW. Let's talk about
Scott's loan whndy you listen. I like to listen while I'm walking the dog.
That sounds like fun. I like to listen to his show while I'm
in the steam room. Oh, I might try that one. I like
to listen to a show while I'm at work because it drowns out the sound
of my idiot boss. Not a bad idea. I listened to his podcast
when my husband is watching one of those stupid Star Wars movies. I guess
anytime is the right time for Sloany. You got that right, Scott Sloan
Tomorrow morning at nine on seven hundred WLW, and check out his podcast on
the free iHeartRadio app. Ready, it is the Nightcap into another hour on
this Monday evening, January twenty nine, twenty twenty four. Sounds weird every
time I say the date. I just haven't gotten used to it. It's
been a whole month. I need to really wake up and get with the
program. Here, Gary Jeff Walker on the night Cap and joining us our
favorite man. She's my favorite I love and I know you love her too,
because you've told me. The one and only spouting off Lady Karen Catalene
is back with us for a brief conversation tonight. It's always good to have
KK along for the ride, Miss Cataline, how are you well through?
Gary Jeff Walker, it's a pleasure. And you don't see this, but
I'm blushing because I'm humbled, and I'm sure you know, we both talked
to some really amazing people. So well, you're very kind. It's easy.
It's easy to be effusive in my praise when it's warranted, dear,
So I'm fine. So I wanted to ask you about this. We now
have three American servicemen and apparently, finally the Department of Defense is waking up
to there's a problem with Iran, even though we should have been at war
with Iran since nineteen seventy nine when they took over our sovereign territory, i
e. Our embassy in Tehran and kept all those Americans hostage for four hundred
and forty four days. But you know, I don't know why the Biden
administration is worried about a wider conflict, because the conflict has been taken to
us, and it's not just the latest thing. And it's a tragic thing
anytime American lives are lost or any law. So okay, let's put it
in those context. But it's the drone strike that killed these American servicemen at
the base in Jordan was one of one hundred and seventy some strikes by Iranian
backed forces, whether they be the Huti rebels in Yemen, whether they be
any one of these Islamist terror groups. They're all funded by Iran, and
I don't understand. There's got to be something that could be done to stop
Iran in their tracks. I noticed that they were fairly silent during the Trump
administration, and it seems like anytime there is an American presidential administration that shows
any sign of strength at all, a lot of these players seem to back
off. But Iran is going full tilt at us right now because of the
weakness of Biden and the administration. Your thoughts on any of that, well,
I hate to be comes back, and these are just hunches because we
have a very questionable press that doesn't always report. They seem to only report
the stuff they think we're supposed to think, and they leave out loads and
loads of information that doesn't fit the narrative. So with that in mind,
I think it's important for all people who want to, you know, pursue
the truth, to recognize there's a lot we don't know. But if you
look at the track record of the left, which is now controlled by the
radical communists. They have always done business with Iran. POTUS forty four was
pushing a Iran deal that would help Iran get nuclear weapons, And so you
have to look at it in the context of what we've already seen in actions
rather than in words. So when our government says we are worried about Iran
and we don't know what's going to happen, it bothers me when some people,
not yourself, believe the rhetoric but they don't believe the actions. We
need to be very careful about what we believe from an administration, for example,
that says that they support Israel's so called right does exist. Why does
a postage stamp of a country have to fight for its right to exist?
Anyway? When they assist Israel's enemies, that's merely one example where they have
infiltrated involved themselves in Israeli elections to get the weakest possible leaders. So you
have to look at actions rather than words. And when you do that,
it's ugly because you realize, gosh, we really don't know what's truly going
on, and unfortunately we have to tell the truth about that, and we
mourn more and more loss of our soldiers. But it bought no bucks about
it, no qualifications. What we have to ask ourselves is this conflict another
conflict to manipulate public opinion in one way or another? And the I don't
know the answer to that. Well, it's interesting, you know, the
the UNRAH thing with the U N. The UE obviously has their own uh,
their own mission to control, to control and to continue taking American taxpayer
dollars because we fund the UN, to the to the team to the hilt.
So now we find out we find out that a UN agency known as
UNRA was participating members were participating in the awful terrorist attack on October seventh in
Israel. And they're supposed to be an aid organization. Well they were aiding,
certainly, but who were they aiding? And what were they what were
they describing as aid? We know now it. But I've never been a
fan of the UN. Not for forty years have I been a fan of
the UN. I don't understand why we pay billions of dollars to this worldwide
organization that hates US and hates Israel. I just don't understand it. Well,
the glib answer is that there are way too many people in this country
who are actual American citizens who also hate America and who also hate Americans.
Otherwise we wouldn't be in the predicament we're in now. But beyond that,
I have to go back to the case in point. That's an example of
what I'm talking about, the rhetoric versus the actions people have to Everybody has
to stop thinking that, you know, this is the America of old.
I'm sorry to say that it's a totally different American than we know at the
moment. We hope and pray it will go back to being bound by the
Constitution and the constraints of our of our constitution, and right now that is
not the case. But also we see the level of propaganda that says that
whatever they say, the opposite is true. So if you look at that
track record, you can't possibly take them at their word. But that doesn't
mean you believe every so called conspiracy theory either. You have to know that
a lot is going on behind the scenes that we don't know. The UN
has always you know, I don't remember when this was, but there were
terrorist countries in charge of lowering terrorism. I mean, I mean talk about
talk about a joke, a total joke, a corrupted joke. So the
alliances that go on a case in point. I don't know how long you
have. I just read I'm backed up on my news, so I admit
it, you know, because I'm doing a little less talk radio and than
I was before. I do still have a website, shameless plug at Karencataline
dot com. But but you know, I fill in for people and so
forth, and I'm not doing a regular show right now, so I'm a
little backed up on the news. But I watched a video of Carrie Lake
talking about how the head of the Arizona Republican Party Republican Party tried to bribe
her to get out of the race, and she had the wherewithal of the
four sides, not only to take that conversation so she had proof, but
also she has unmistakable integrity. She cannot be bought. There's so preciously few
people like that and our government because it's one of the reasons they got into
government. You know, the loads and loads of people who are millionaires now
and have been in government for forty years. But Carrie Lake is a threat
to all of them, simply because she has integrity, and she has guts
and she's she's an impressive woman. So now because she exposed this corruption to
the light of day, the guy, the guy resigned. Okay, yeah,
and that is that is a blueprint for what to do, which is
to stay hold type to your convictions, type to your accountability to something greater
than government. Oh say God, and know that you're doing the right thing
and you may be punished for it now, but in the end, if
you expose it to the light of day and you understand who some of these
people are not all, then you have a weapon they don't have, and
that's being willing to tell the truth. Well, the thing is, Karen,
this is again why they have tried to minimize minimalize her at all costs.
It's they pulled whatever they pulled in the election, the last election to
keep her out of office. Is because, as you mentioned, she obviously
cannot be bought definitely not by those anti American forces at work in the Arizona
GOP Republican Party, but also just in general. And this is one of
the reasons because they they've done the same thing to Donald Trump over and over
and over again. And he also I don't know, I don't have an
altruistic opinion of Donald Trump, but I know what he did. And you
talk, you know, talk about words rather than actions. Actions are what
really mattered, not words. Yes they do, Yes, they do.
The actions that he took while he was president, for the most part,
except during the scamdemic, were prudent and they were the right things to do.
And any people have such short memories, you know, Donald Trump was
the darling of the left when he wasn't a political candidate with an R after
his name. All they wanted to do is get close to him, just
like a Steven Spielberg. Now his name is Matt and he's evil and he's
a hitler, and he's the evilst thing in the world, and they cannot
Anyway. It was Carrie Lake in that same video, and I encourage people
to look at that video. If I could post it on my Twitter page,
I would. It's at Karen Katleen, and that is she said,
if they're really after you hard, you know that you're telling the truth and
you're in the right place. Okay, if they are not, or she
said, when Republicans are liked by Democrats, when Republicans seem safe from criticism,
you know they're doing business with these people. They've shown it again and
again and again. They are wholly incapable of dissent, tolerating differences of opinion.
We've now crossed the rubicon into a totalitarian mindset. It's my way or
the highway, and if you don't go along, I'm going to punish you,
and I'm going to abuse my power to do so. That's been their
mm. And yet look how quickly this guy resigned simply because not only did
she tell the truth, but she had the tape to back it up,
and they just couldn't do anything, so they forced him to resign. On
that on that video, On that audio, you hear the tape, and
he says, give me a number, give me a number. In other
words, what's it going to take for us to pay you off. We're
going to get you a cheap, little do nothing job with millions of dollars
so that you won't run for office. And she said, you mean be
bought. And as soon as you tell the truth to people. That's an
example of what has been done by everyday citizens for a while now. But
then there are whole lot of people who still believe the revers you can't believe
no, no, no, the whole of Nicky Haley, can't you know?
I want, I want, I want to I want to get into
that you're kind of bourblin here in a second. I want to see if
we can get a better signal, Karen, because I was just about to
get in to Nicky Haley and and talk about people who have been bought and
obviously paid for by by people who do not want the people themselves to have
a voice in their government. I mean, there is no common sense at
all that says that Nicky Haley should even still be in the race. However,
she continues to persevere thanks to millions of dollars being donated by people who
are lifelong Democrats and people who hate Donald Trump. Well, this is the
side of Terry Lake. I mean, they're propping up her nothing campaign.
No grassroots, they hate it. They can't stand her because she is the
emblematic of the Republican elite establishment that seems to prefer communism to grassroots people having
a voice, or constitutionalism for that matter. So they want to prop up
and pay Nikki Hayley to run, to run a phony campaign with no support,
just like Chris Christy, like Mike Pence, like all of them.
There was no there there ever, and they want to pay Terry Lake not
to run for the same exact reason. This is you know what it is
if you love mob stories. This is what mobsters do. As a matter
of fact, sometimes the government is better at it. You know, it
is mob tactic. It's that you know, I'm gonna you need to pay
me for your protection. Why I don't need protection from whom? From us?
That's the tactic. It's arm twisting, to bullying tactics, to bribery,
blackmail, and you better do as I say or else. There's nothing
amraitan about that. Americans have always been people who revered dessent, even if
even if you can't stand the point of view, you don't hate the person
personally. To personalizing everything, jumping to conclusions and labeling everybody you hate as
the very bigoted labels that you claim you were against all along. I mean,
that's the topsy turvy world. We're limited. It's all ass backwards.
So I will, Karen, I will leave you with this, and yes,
it's our friends at the Babylon Bee again. Today's post No Wonder Dateline
Texas Bubba Broomstick Johnson, a proud Texan and self procame protector of all things
lone Star, has declared that he's been waiting for this moment his entire life,
the opportunity to finally dust off his arsenal and defend Texas if a civil
war and invasion ever breaks out. For years, Bubba's meticulously curated his collection
of firearms, affectionately referring to them as his freedom dispensers. From his trustees
six shooters to a state of the art assault rifles. Bubba's arsenal rivals that
of a small militia or at least a moderately armed neighborhood. Watch. Oh
Lord, how blessed am I said Bubba with a tear in his eye upon
reading the news the Texas Governor Abbott intends to defend the Texas border no matter
what. And they tried to tell me that I was wasting my money on
this. Here Gatlin gun stockpile of C four and fully functioning civil war canon,
who's the dummy now lives? The only problem with Battlelon B is that
it is hard sometimes to tell parody from the truth. That's true, well,
it's it's always It's always easy to hear the truth when I talk to
you, and I'm so glad that you were available tonight. Thanks Karen Karen
Katialen Karencatleen dot com. Check her out. It's the Nightcap and it rolls
on in moments on seven hundred WLW. Hi, Mike Mcconoughmy and I can
put in countless hours to give you a top not show each and every morning.
Now, if you happen to miss the show, you're going to miss
some of that top notch neists and we can't have that. So catch what
you missed. Check out the Mike McConnell podcast on the iHeartRadio Act. Damage
decayed, painful or poorlyar stored teeth can be replaced one or all in a
single sedatea dental visit at Right Dental, Cincinnati. And Cold Spring Implants are
on seven hundred W LW. Putting the wraps on this puppy tonight, And
I've been waiting for this guest literally all week long, ever since I found
out he was available to talk to us. This guest is a guy who
got a PhD from the University of California, Santa Barbara from eighty five to
twenty sixteen. He taught at the University of Dayton, and in his teaching
career he's taught every grade from seventh all the way through college. So he
knows a little bit about getting the facts right, I think, so he
can disseminate them properly to his students over the years. But he's also written
this incredible book, A Patriots History of Globalism, Its Rise and Decline.
Please welcome Larry Schweiker to the show. How you doing, Larry, Hey,
Gary, Good to talk to somebody from OHI, oh yeah. Since
you were at UD all those years, you've returned to your roots in Arizona
though, and where you're sitting right now in Chandler, Arizona was seventy seven
today. So we're not gonna We're not going to say bad things about you
or anything else. I believe envy is one of those deadly sins, so
I'll just let it go. But I think I have a snow shovels somewhere
out there. Good for you. First off, before you got into political
science and you got your Bachelor of Arts and Political Science, you went on
the road. But afterwards you'd had your degree and you went on the road
with several different rock bands in the sixties and seventies. Tell me about that
for just a minute. What was that experience like and what made you decide
to come back to the classroom. Well, you know, I was playing
all the way through high school and college, which explains why I have pretty
bad grades in college. But I did get a BA in political science,
and literally the Sunday after I graduated, I was in a van on my
way to play in Peoria. Yeah, we played in Peoria. Well you
could play band. I went through a number of bands. We ended up
opening for Steven Law that James Yang Savoy Brown, We played The Troubadour in
La and The Who not the World Health Organization. The Who came in and
sat next to the stage and when we were John ol Pete Townsend, drunk
as a scum, came up and slapped me on the back and said,
hey, we need to show what. So it was a fantastic experience.
I wouldn't trade it for anything. But I decided around nineteen seventy six or
so I needed to make a change, and almost overnight I went into become
a history professor. I just set my sights on that and that's where I
ended up. That's amazing. So you just jokingly talked about the WHO,
not the band, but the World Health Organization, And you want to talk
about a driver of globalism and has been ever since its inception. There is
right now and a lot of people do not know this because they're not paying
attention or they're just drive by listeners or headline readers that uh, right now
is trying to coerce everyone in the world to sign this pack that gives them
full autonomy the WHO, full autonomy over your government. You're elected leaders for
future pandemics. They are doing that right now, and nobody in the United
States except for a few of us, know that they're going for this global
compact to try and put all of us worldwide under their thumb and what they
decigne is the best remedy for tackling the next pandemic. You know about this,
right? Yeah, let's back up for your listeners just a little bit,
because in a Patriot's history of globalism, this is part history and part
hope. But I try to show that globalism is nothing new. I mean,
you can date it if you want to go back to the tower babble,
that's fine. But I dated from eighteen fourteen and the Congress of Vienna
where mana Ars tried globalism in Europe, and then you ended up after World
War One with diplomats trying globalism and that failed. And then after World War
two, scientists tried to control the atomic bond through globalism and that failed.
And then you got the bankers and financial systems through the Breton Woods Agreements,
trying to control the world through globalism and that failed. And the most recent
one is what you're talking about, medical globalism through the World Health Organization,
and it's very concerning. And the good news is they can't override the US
Constitution, and certainly the right people and there can stomp this into the dirt.
Well, I mean, they're still attempting to do it, and they're
getting more backlashes as they have. Do you find that through history people who
have been trying to push globalism on the entire world have eventually, because part
of the title of the book is its rise and decline has risen and declined
several different times. Ye. So do you think that the current populism and
nationalism will stop it in its tracks once again? Ultimately? Yes, yes,
I do. I think the last chapter of the book is full of
hope, whether it's the fact that Soros has had to pull his operations out
of Europe, to the fact that and this just came up yesterday, that
about seven or eight new euro nations are having elections that are moving them further
to the right. That's on top of places like Slovakia, Hungary, Italy,
Estonia, Argentina, dozens of nations are moving I hate to use the
term to the right, but moving toward a more populous, common sense notion
of nationalism. That Hungary should have its own nation, that Argentina should be
its own nation, that America should be our own nation and not subject to
international controls. And I think right now, on every front, whether it's
woke, whether it's medical, whether it's financial, I think I wouldn't call
if they're in route, but certainly they're back on their heels. The globalists
are back on their heels and in a state of retreat right now, and
we need to pour it on well, isn't it true? Though, when
you know they may be they may even be a wounded animal, And when
they're backed into a corner, that's when they're most dangerous and they try the
most the most sweeping kind of actions to save themselves, like a I don't
know, like a parasite or a disease. You know, when it's on
the run, it just tries to infect everybody while it's dying. But you
know, you imagine, you're absolutely you're absolutely right about that. And we
have to be weary, We have to be cautious. One thing though,
I think people on the Rite or Conservatives have been guilty of in the past,
say ten years or so. It's kind of a mcclellanism on the historian.
You remember mclll in the Union General would outnumber Robert E. Lee by
two or three times, and yet he always thought he was the one that
was out numbered and would be timid and afraid. And the Bible says God
hasn't given us a spirit of fear, but a power and of love and
of a sound mind. And I think what we need to be cautious and
need to be observant, We need to be on the attack. They need
to fear us and what we're going to do not us be worried constantly about
them. And you filtered into a recent conflict now with Iran ramping up ramping
up their attacks on US. We had three US soldiers killed in the latest
drone attacks in that base in Jordan and another thirty four of American troops injured
in that. And we know what's Iran. Why has Joe Biden taken him
a mccleualist approach to Iran? I mean, technically, if you look at
it, we should have been at war with Iran since nineteen seventy nine when
they took over sovereign American territory in the Iran embassy in Tehran and took our
American citizens hostage. We should have been in a state a war with Iran
all along. What do they worried? They always talk about worried about the
wider conflict, And it's like the conflict has been brought to us and it's
not new. It's not just with Gaza and this particular war. Iran's been
doing this with the United States in the West since nineteen seventy nine, ever
since the Shaw fell, Right, Yeah, that's true, But look at
what else happened today. While everybody's kind of focused on Iran, this just
came across and Usuare. A little while ago, the US put troops on
the ground in Yemen. So this is not good. I mean, the
American people pretty overwhelmingly do not want any more foreign wars now, are pretty
opposed to that. Right now, Could the Iranians be dealt with absolutely?
Look at the way President Trump dealt with them. He took out Soliani in
one little drone strike and that put the fear of God in them, and
they stayed quiet for about three years exactly. So so this needs to be
done delicately but firmly. But Biden, whom I affectionately nicknamed Rude Bega,
has virtually no no cognitive ability of grand strategy or anything, and so this
only works to harm him in the general election. I see no way,
no matter which way he goes on this, that he's going to come out
a winner in this conflict because A he waited too long be he was on
Obama's side and giving the Uranians the money in the first place. And see
right now, as I just said, the American people are pretty much opposed
to a wider war, So he's pretty much in the doghouse no matter which
direction he goes with this. Yeah, but again, the Iranians should have
been dealt with a long time ago, and you know, they never really
were in my opinion. I mean, I'm not a fan of foreign wars,
and I'm not a fan of putting Americans in harms way, especially if
I'm not willing to be the first to go Larry. But at the same
point, and I'm not a big fan of war in general, but at
the same point that there has there has to be at least an even or
maybe an uneven response when they take over what is considered to be your sovereign
territory, as the Iranians did in the Iatolas did back in nineteen seventy nine.
You know, all that really happened was we got the hostages back,
Reagan sold arms to Iran, and then and you know, here we are
more than forty years later with Iran still basically at war with us, and
we're not at war with them. I don't understand why. Yeah, I
don't know how. What would be the best strategy for dealing with them?
If we're up to me and I were a dictator of the world, I'd
send in a couple of CIA guys to just take out a few of the
inner ruling council and just send the message, which I think could be sent
but I'm you know, I'm not dictator of the world, and I can't
do that. I am, but you're right, it's all across the globe.
The US has lost respect, and you know, our allies are kind
of thumbing their nose at us. The Mexicans will do nothing about the cartels
and the North because we don't pressure them to do so. So it's a
it's a major issue. I do want to point out though, that in
many other areas, the left is I hate to say the left, the
globalists are on their heels here and as you say, they're starting to get
panic. We just have to make sure that panic doesn't turn into a global
catastrophe. Keep them, keep them scrunched down there. Well, you were
talking about being dictator of the world, which is kind of antithetical to somebody
who's against globalism. But here's the thing, Larry Swicker's not running. That's
why I'm not running, Okay, Larry Schweickert is our guest. The book
is a patriot's history of globalism, its rise and decline. And it was
wonderful to see you mentioned Argentina is one of those countries that have you know,
majorly swung in the other direction away from globalism with the election of this
president and his speech at the World Economic Forum. Yeah, was just it
was great to see them just with their their mouths agape and their eyes and
shaking their heads at what he was talking about. And what he's talking about
is the same kind of push that you push for in the last chapter of
your book, the hope that you have. Yeah, and you know what
else. I didn't mention this in the book because obviously it hadn't happened yet,
But note who was not at Doggos Italy, France, Great Britain,
Russia. I mean, most of the big players in the world did not
send their presidents or prime ministers, and that says something about the declining influence
of Doggos. I mean, the one thing that Davos had going for it
was it was a hotbed for international sex workers who just came in by droves.
And one of the things I point out in my book is this is
nothing new either. If you go back to the Congress of Vienna, I
have some pretty interesting segments on what the parties were like there and how the
sex trade and the entertainment trade just thrived in Vienna while they were supposedly discussing
the future of the world there, and same thing in Versailles. These people
are partiers, no doubt about it. Well, yeah, and you know
that I always like to say, for years, I've said there's really only
one party in Washington, DC, and they're having a hell of a time
with our money. Really. You know, you talk about separating Demmocrats and
Republicans and right and left, and I agree. I don't like the term
left either, and I don't like the term right. I like the terms
globalisms and globalists and patriots and patriots, because that's what it really is.
I think a lot of people are using the term populism, which is okay
with me if you are not a student of American history, it's better because
in American history the populace have a very specific definition. It's quite socialist and
left left wing. I don't think populism as it's now understood refers to that
anymore. No. But the other thing that I think needs to be brought
excuse it needs to be brought out, is how in every instance, whether
it's a Congress of Vienna or the first I piece talk so the UN how
they go in with such ostensibly high ideals, and you read what the people
were saying back in eighteen hundred that they thought, all of these, all
these people in eight teen fourteen, we're going to go in and make life
better for all the people in Europe. And then after a couple of months
they go they're not doing anything. They're making our live worse. They're moving
dass populations around, changing borders. And this is a very common you know,
no matter which part of history you go to, is that they come
on with all these high falutint ideals that they're going to help everybody, and
then reality sets in and it's it's a different story. Well, it's kind
of like Ronald Reagan said, I'm from the government and I'm here to help
you. No, do not help me. Somebody comes to my door with
that, they're going to be looking at my double barrel saying, please get
off my porch and don't help me. Don't help me. Whatever you do,
don't help me, for God's sake, you know, speaking go ahead,
got a second, yeah, second, speaking of help. You know,
I have a chapter on Bretton Woods and the World Bank and the IMF,
and again, what I think everybody will find so interesting is how this
becomes a business of its own. It's called the DEV business, the development
business, but insiders call it the dev business. And we're talking about hundreds
of thousands of these do gooders all around the world going into small rural villages
and so forth. You know, I'm from the government, I'm here to
help you. I'm from doctors out borders. I'm here to help you.
And in the end, all they do is cause more chaos and more problems.
And even the UN's own studies say, you know, really, they
haven't helped anything. They haven't improved life much at all in any place where
any of these organizations have gone into And in the case that we've seen recently
of UNRAH, which we're now defunding thank god, you know, was there
were people working with UNRA, that UN agency who were there participating in the
October seventh attacks on Israel. I mean exactly, jeez, Larry Schwiker.
The book is a patriots history of globalism. It's rise and decline. We've
seen the rise, and I am just praying for the decline. Larry.
It's a coming. It's a coming, all right. Well, thank you
so much for your time and great success with the books. Sir, okay,
thank you and hello to everybody there in Ohio. You got it.
Larry Schweikert on the night Cap back in a moment to wrap up. Willy
is the one person I know I can count on, my friend. I
want you to know that I Bill Cunningham am here for you. He makes
me feel good to be an American. Let me help ease your concerns,
keep you informed, and raise your spirits. I rather have my arm gnawed
off by beavers than miss Willie's show. I'm here for you. All you
have to do is listen to me the great America. I want to be
a great American, just like Willie. Bill Cunningham. Tomorrow at twelve noon
on seven hundred w l W and this week's Marketers Report, we learn about
the value of local influencers in uncertain times from Alison Griffin, head of mark